Big Ford recall - catches fire even with ignition off !

[Burnt]

In January Ford issued a recall of 800,000 vehicles. But I just heard
from a guy whose car (a 2000 Navigator) caught fire in his driveway a
few days ago. He hadn't heard about the recall. That is why I am
mentioning it here.

If you have a Ford with cruise control, it could catch fire. The fires
originate in the electrical system, and can occur even when the ignition
is OFF. Many fires have occurred with the car parked at home in the
garage, and some of those have destroyed the whole house. Have a look
at http://www.flamingfords.info

Be careful.

Burnt

[Sherman Cahal]

Post by Burnt
In January Ford issued a recall of 800,000 vehicles. But I just heard
from a guy whose car (a 2000 Navigator) caught fire in his driveway a
few days ago. He hadn't heard about the recall. That is why I am
mentioning it here.
If you have a Ford with cruise control, it could catch fire. The fires
originate in the electrical system, and can occur even when the ignition
is OFF. Many fires have occurred with the car parked at home in the
garage, and some of those have destroyed the whole house. Have a look
at http://www.flamingfords.info
Be careful.
Burnt

Yet another reason why I don't buy cars from Ford, GM, or other shotty
American companies. "Imports" such as Honda/Acura, Toyota, etc. are
MUCH safer, MUCH more reliable, and have BETTER quality.

[Stephane Dumas]

Post by Sherman Cahal
Yet another reason why I don't buy cars from Ford, GM, or other shotty
American companies. "Imports" such as Honda/Acura, Toyota, etc. are
MUCH safer, MUCH more reliable, and have BETTER quality.

How about importing some Australian (Holden, Aussie Ford Falcon) ones and
convert them to LHD?

I guess this news about the Honda CR-V fires don't do the CNN headline ;-)
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/crv_letter.html
Meanwhile in Europe, Toyota have trouble with cruise control
http://up.news.tf1.fr/news/france/0,,3210465,00.html (this link is in
French) I guess they buy at the same place at Renault for the cruise control
system (the Renault Vel Satis did have some trouble with cruise control
there http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2004/10/06/ap1578811.html )

Stéphane Dumas

[Jay Maynard]

Detroit has yet to give me a reason to look overseas. Sure, my exper-
ience might not mirror everyone's, but why should I even look to
another manufacturer, let alone overseas, if the quality, dependability
and safety of my American-made cars has been nothing short of excel-
lent??

I wish I could say the same. I will never again buy a Ford product, nor will
anyone else wher I have any say in the question. See
http://www.conmicro.cx/explorer.html for the story.

I've purchased six new vehicles in my life. Two GM products (a 1979 Buick
Regal Limited and a 1987 Chevy S-10 Blazer) were plagued with little, weird
problems. Two Fords (a 1983 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and a 1992 Explorer
Sport) each damn near ran me into bankruptcy with premature major repairs.
Two Toyota products (a 1996 RAV4 and a 2001 Lexus RX300) have been
completely trouble-free. Guess what I'm buying next time around?

[Sherman Cahal]

Post by Jay Maynard

Detroit has yet to give me a reason to look overseas. Sure, my exper-
ience might not mirror everyone's, but why should I even look to
another manufacturer, let alone overseas, if the quality,

dependability

Post by Jay Maynard

and safety of my American-made cars has been nothing short of excel-
lent??

I wish I could say the same. I will never again buy a Ford product, nor will
anyone else wher I have any say in the question. See
http://www.conmicro.cx/explorer.html for the story.
I've purchased six new vehicles in my life. Two GM products (a 1979 Buick
Regal Limited and a 1987 Chevy S-10 Blazer) were plagued with little, weird
problems. Two Fords (a 1983 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and a 1992

Explorer

Post by Jay Maynard
Sport) each damn near ran me into bankruptcy with premature major repairs.
Two Toyota products (a 1996 RAV4 and a 2001 Lexus RX300) have been
completely trouble-free. Guess what I'm buying next time around?

My parents have purchased nothing but American made vehicles until just
recently. They owned a Plymouth Voyager (1988) that was nice but gave
them some problems.

They rid of it in 1996 for a Chrysler Cirrus (1995) that was NOTHING
but a lemon. It had cruise control issues (such as setting itself
randomly, and quitting randomly), brake issues, power steering issues,
A/C issues to start... We had the dealer take it back and give us a
FULL refund or else we would be filing a lawsuit for selling us a KNOWN
defective vehicle.

Then we had a 1996 Plymouth Voyager that was nice but it was a damn
boat. Why get 19 MPG out of a American van when we can get much more
out of an Import?

They then purchased a Nissan Pathfinder in 1998 and sold it and bought
another one in 2003 because they enjoyed it so much -- they wanted a
different color, style, and a little bit more power.

My dad has a Chevy Silverado 1990. It has NOTHING but issues. The cab
paint started peeling off within TWO years -- and of course the paint
warranty happened to expire within that time so there was NOTHING we
could do about it. Despite a class action lawsuit, Chevrolet refused to
admit it had a problem. Then the engine started going out at 70,000
miles, and then the fuel pump... After that was replaced, it was fine
for a bit until the timing became an issue. Now its the fuel pump
again... I think we are about to sell it for a Japanesse made truck,
like Toyota or Honda's.

And with rising gas prices, my parents are also considering selling
their Pathfinder (bought for 33,000 and now worth just 22,000 due to
the high gas prices devaluing the vehicle) and getting a new Japanese
hybrid or fuel efficent car.

It is a known issue that American vehicles have problems and
reliability issues. It has for years and years -- that's why Japanesse
cars have skyrocketed in the past 30 years. Until American automakers
realize that, then they will keep losing market value to the imports.

[Stephane Dumas]

Post by Sherman Cahal
They rid of it in 1996 for a Chrysler Cirrus (1995) that was NOTHING
but a lemon. It had cruise control issues (such as setting itself
randomly, and quitting randomly), brake issues, power steering issues,
A/C issues to start... We had the dealer take it back and give us a
FULL refund or else we would be filing a lawsuit for selling us a KNOWN
defective vehicle.

My brother-in-law seems to be lucky with its Stratus (a 1997 one)

Post by Sherman Cahal
Then we had a 1996 Plymouth Voyager that was nice but it was a damn
boat. Why get 19 MPG out of a American van when we can get much more
out of an Import?
They then purchased a Nissan Pathfinder in 1998 and sold it and bought
another one in 2003 because they enjoyed it so much -- they wanted a
different color, style, and a little bit more power.
And with rising gas prices, my parents are also considering selling
their Pathfinder (bought for 33,000 and now worth just 22,000 due to
the high gas prices devaluing the vehicle) and getting a new Japanese
hybrid or fuel efficent car.

Looks they are lucky but others aren't
http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.jspa?forumID=32&threadID=96&start=15&tstart=0
http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.jspa?forumID=32&threadID=96&start=0&tstart=0
and besides hybrids there still the diesel who could do a comeback with a
much cleaner fuel standards like the ones in Europe or the biodiesel or the
diesel GTL (gas-to-liquid who's more cleaner than the petrol variant,
recently Toyota and Shell experimented and tested some UK Avensis models who
use the diesel GTL)
Currently for affordable diesels only VW offer them here but Mercedes bring
back the diesel in their line-up, Jeep added it for the Liberty and once
Canada will have diesel standards close to the European more, diesel sales
will go skyhigh

Post by Sherman Cahal
It is a known issue that American vehicles have problems and
reliability issues. It has for years and years -- that's why Japanesse
cars have skyrocketed in the past 30 years. Until American automakers
realize that, then they will keep losing market value to the imports.

And sometimes some imports lose some market to....others imports, while
Honda faced a slump and decline in sales with their Accord, Hyundai sales
skyrocketed despite than some have still the memories of their first models
like Pony, Stellar and Excel.

Stéphane Dumas

[Chris Bessert]

Post by Sherman Cahal
It is a known issue that American vehicles have problems and
reliability issues.

Are you saying I have had the only eight domestic vehicles without
"problems" and "reliability issues" produced in the last decade and
a half?

I don't think so. My 1990 Chevy Cavalier, 1997 Chevy Cavalier, 2002
Oldsmobile Intrigue, my wife's 1994 Dodge Shadow, 1998 Oldsmobile
Cutlass and 2003 Chevy Trailblazer have all been trouble-free and
nothing BUT reliable. Going back further, though, I had a 1983 Chevy
S-10 pickup where the body essentially rusted away and had a lot of
A/C problems and the radio quit working, but that was a third-hand
vehicle that had a LOT of things messed with it over the years (al-
though, whomever yanked the original V6 and replaced it with a V8
was much appreciated!). My wife also had a 1988 Dodge/Plymouth
Omni/Horizon which was a good little tin can of a car... until she
locked up the brakes on a patch of ice back in 1994, which resulted
in the '94 Dodge Shadow.

Plus the fact that the parents have been purchasing domestics for
decades (I can recall an '80 Chevy Citation, '84 Chevy Blazer, '88
Chevy Astro, '90, '92, '94 and '96 Yukons, '99 and '02 Chevy
Impalas for mom and various Oldsmobiles -- Cutlasses, Cieras, etc.
-- for dad), all with no abnormal problems or quality issues.

In the end, I don't go out and buy lemons. I'm not stupid. As I
already stated, GM has given me no reasons to look elsewhere, either
domestic OR import, so why should I? I've gotten some good deals on
quality cars... should I be disgruntled at that? Hell no!

Post by Sherman Cahal
It has for years and years -- that's why Japanesse
cars have skyrocketed in the past 30 years. Until American automakers
realize that, then they will keep losing market value to the imports.

You do realize the reason domestics are having a tough time right
now isn't due to reliability issues, right? It's the fact that Detroit
keeps trying to sell customers on things like styling which isn't what
is driving them to dealerships. In fact, given that the reliability
ratings between imports and domestics are essentially the same today
(remember, Sherman, this ain't the 70s anymore), many auto analysts
are having a hard time understanding why domestics aren't doing as
well as they should against imports (Ford excluded, of course, as of
late).

As for Ford, I wouldn't buy one either, but not because it's a domes-
tic, but because it's a Ford. Coming from a "General Motors family,"
a Ford could almost be considered an "import"... :^)

Later,
Chris

--
Chris Bessert
***@aol.com
http://www.michiganhighways.org
http://www.wisconsinhighways.org
http://www.ontariohighways.org

[me]

Post by Chris Bessert

Post by Sherman Cahal
It is a known issue that American vehicles have problems and
reliability issues.

Are you saying I have had the only eight domestic vehicles without
"problems" and "reliability issues" produced in the last decade and
a half?

I've had 6 GM cars (3 Buicks, 2 Olds and 1 Cadillac). I bought all
of them used, but all had at least 100,000 miles on them when I
got them, and in the case of the Caddy, I put over 100,000 miles
on it myself. A couple were wrecked through no fault of my own,
one probably could have gone another 20 or 30,000 (I hit a deer
with it). The cars ranged from 1981 (the first two cars I had),
to 1996 (my current one).

[b***@hotmail.com]

I drove my 1994 Escort to 223,000 miles on the odometer, with no
problems other than the timing belt- a 100,000 mile part. When I sold
it, it still was giving excellent service. I got a new 2004 Ranger as
the replacement.

When one checks oil, fluids, belts and hoses at every fueling, you can
head off many problems before they become an issue. Ditto for doing oil
changes every 3,000 miles.That Escort never failed to start, never gave
out on the road (except for said timing belt, and that was because I
was trying to go as long as I could before having it done), and always
delivered 38+ mpg. I took care of it and it took care of me.

For imports being better than domestics - I have only one word:

Yugo


There's a fine expample of quality and reliability from overseas.

[An Hour of Art College]

Post by Jay Maynard

Detroit has yet to give me a reason to look overseas. Sure, my exper-
ience might not mirror everyone's, but why should I even look to
another manufacturer, let alone overseas, if the quality, dependability
and safety of my American-made cars has been nothing short of excel-
lent??

I wish I could say the same. I will never again buy a Ford product, nor will
anyone else wher I have any say in the question. See
http://www.conmicro.cx/explorer.html for the story.
I've purchased six new vehicles in my life. Two GM products (a 1979 Buick
Regal Limited and a 1987 Chevy S-10 Blazer) were plagued with little, weird
problems. Two Fords (a 1983 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and a 1992 Explorer
Sport) each damn near ran me into bankruptcy with premature major repairs.
Two Toyota products (a 1996 RAV4 and a 2001 Lexus RX300) have been
completely trouble-free. Guess what I'm buying next time around?

A Trabant?

[william lynch]

Post by An Hour of Art College

Post by Jay Maynard

Detroit has yet to give me a reason to look overseas. Sure, my exper-
ience might not mirror everyone's, but why should I even look to
another manufacturer, let alone overseas, if the quality, dependability
and safety of my American-made cars has been nothing short of excel-
lent??

I wish I could say the same. I will never again buy a Ford product, nor will
anyone else wher I have any say in the question. See
http://www.conmicro.cx/explorer.html for the story.
I've purchased six new vehicles in my life. Two GM products (a 1979 Buick
Regal Limited and a 1987 Chevy S-10 Blazer) were plagued with little, weird
problems. Two Fords (a 1983 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and a 1992 Explorer
Sport) each damn near ran me into bankruptcy with premature major repairs.
Two Toyota products (a 1996 RAV4 and a 2001 Lexus RX300) have been
completely trouble-free. Guess what I'm buying next time around?

A Trabant?

I'd love to own one of those. Drop a bug engine and drivetrain in
so it would stand an outside chance of passing smog.

[MC Pee Pants]

Post by william lynch

Post by An Hour of Art College

Post by Jay Maynard

Detroit has yet to give me a reason to look overseas. Sure, my exper-
ience might not mirror everyone's, but why should I even look to
another manufacturer, let alone overseas, if the quality, dependability
and safety of my American-made cars has been nothing short of excel-
lent??

I wish I could say the same. I will never again buy a Ford product, nor will
anyone else wher I have any say in the question. See
http://www.conmicro.cx/explorer.html for the story.
I've purchased six new vehicles in my life. Two GM products (a 1979 Buick
Regal Limited and a 1987 Chevy S-10 Blazer) were plagued with little, weird
problems. Two Fords (a 1983 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and a 1992 Explorer
Sport) each damn near ran me into bankruptcy with premature major repairs.
Two Toyota products (a 1996 RAV4 and a 2001 Lexus RX300) have been
completely trouble-free. Guess what I'm buying next time around?

A Trabant?

I'd love to own one of those. Drop a bug engine and drivetrain in
so it would stand an outside chance of passing smog.

It would be a huge job to put a rear-engine in a front-engine front-wheel
drive car. I'd drop in a Honda VTEC drivetrain or something similar to have
a real screamer.

[MC Pee Pants]

Post by Jay Maynard

Detroit has yet to give me a reason to look overseas. Sure, my exper-
ience might not mirror everyone's, but why should I even look to
another manufacturer, let alone overseas, if the quality, dependability
and safety of my American-made cars has been nothing short of excel-
lent??

I wish I could say the same. I will never again buy a Ford product, nor will
anyone else wher I have any say in the question. See
http://www.conmicro.cx/explorer.html for the story.

If I happen to hear a teaser on the radio "100,000 cars recalled" I
automatically assume Ford. It's a sad comment, because I've always liked
Fords and I have owned several Fords. I still own an unrestored original
1962 Ford Galaxie 500 2 door hardtop. The quality on this car was
excellent. I have owned and had access to several Fords with the
small-block Windsor V8, which was an excellent engine, as good as the Chevy
small-block. It seems Ford has gone gotten complacent. Chrysler introduces
the innovatevely styled 300-C SRT-8 with the 425 HP 6.1 Hemi and Ford
answers the soporific Five Hundred that looks like a copy of the 1991
Caprice Classic. I'm not a Ford-hater by any means, I just haven't been
impressed with late-model Fords. I will say my 93 Probe was a good car, and
my grandparents' 95 Taurus has been reliable. I'd like to see Ford return
to the innovative company it was in the 60's.

Post by Jay Maynard
I've purchased six new vehicles in my life. Two GM products (a 1979 Buick
Regal Limited and a 1987 Chevy S-10 Blazer) were plagued with little, weird
problems. Two Fords (a 1983 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and a 1992 Explorer
Sport) each damn near ran me into bankruptcy with premature major repairs.
Two Toyota products (a 1996 RAV4 and a 2001 Lexus RX300) have been
completely trouble-free. Guess what I'm buying next time around?

Knock on wood, but my 98 Cavalier has 125,000 trouble-free miles. I had a
bad image of late-model GM cars, but this one has changed my mind. Not
exciting-but good comfortable everyday transportation.

[Chris Bessert]

Post by Sherman Cahal
Yet another reason why I don't buy cars from Ford, GM, or other shotty
American companies. "Imports" such as Honda/Acura, Toyota, etc. are
MUCH safer, MUCH more reliable, and have BETTER quality.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Sure, there are some shitty domestics out
there... but there are some shitty imports, too. This isn't the early
1970s when domestic cars were all 27-ton boats getting 1-1/2 miles to
the gallon and requiring service every 1,600 feet. Yes, Japan really
kicked the US Automakers in the ass a couple decades ago, but times
have changed.

I drive an American-made automobile -- I've always driven American-
made automobiles. My last car I put about 168,000 miles on it and the
only thing I had problems with were the daytime running lights, but
that was partly due to a front-end collision I had and not a manu-
facturer's defect. The only reason I got rid of that old car was
because it was too small for my tastes. (Mind you, I also wasn't the
best at making sure I performed routine maintenance on that car,
like getting the oil changed on time. I'm much better now, but even
with my past bad habits, those cars were very dependable.)

In fact, I cannot recall having to take my current or last two General
Motors vehicles in for anything more than minor, routine maintenance.
My wife, too, her past two GM vehicles and two Chrysler products be-
fore that all had high mileage put on them and no problems. In effect,
Detroit has yet to give me a reason to look overseas. Sure, my exper-
ience might not mirror everyone's, but why should I even look to
another manufacturer, let alone overseas, if the quality, dependability
and safety of my American-made cars has been nothing short of excel-
lent??

Later,
Chris

P.S. It's "shoddy."

[s***@gmail.com]

Mine just caught fire looking for those recalled.