May seeks general election

It's not. The Act provides that Parliament itself can agree to an early
general election provided that two-thirds of its members vote for it.
And that's what May is going to ask it to do.

Of course, she can't do it just with the votes she currently commands,
but for some reason Corbyn has said in the past that he and his party
will 'of course' vote for it. Why 'of course' I have no idea. It seems
somewhat suicidal at the present time, and it may cause some rebellion
amongst his MPs who fear they might lose their seats.

Jumper

2017-04-18 11:27:46 UTC

It's not. The Act provides that Parliament itself can agree to an early
general election provided that two-thirds of its members vote for it.
And that's what May is going to ask it to do.
Of course, she can't do it just with the votes she currently commands,
but for some reason Corbyn has said in the past that he and his party
will 'of course' vote for it. Why 'of course' I have no idea. It seems
somewhat suicidal at the present time, and it may cause some rebellion
amongst his MPs who fear they might lose their seats.

I can see the very deluded Labour party leader having a three line whip
on most of his MPs to agree to a general election. The far left wingers
in the labour party really think they have the magic bullet to win a GE.
This GE will see the end of the liebour party, and the return of the
LD. It’s going back to the future in 1918. The liberals were the
opposition and the labour party a minority party.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

tim...

2017-04-18 11:42:03 UTC

It's not. The Act provides that Parliament itself can agree to an early
general election provided that two-thirds of its members vote for it.
And that's what May is going to ask it to do.
Of course, she can't do it just with the votes she currently commands,
but for some reason Corbyn has said in the past that he and his party
will 'of course' vote for it. Why 'of course' I have no idea. It seems
somewhat suicidal at the present time, and it may cause some rebellion
amongst his MPs who fear they might lose their seats.

I can see the very deluded Labour party leader having a three line whip on
most of his MPs to agree to a general election. The far left wingers in
the labour party really think they have the magic bullet to win a GE. This
GE will see the end of the liebour party, and the return of the LD. It’s
going back to the future in 1918. The liberals were the opposition and
the labour party a minority party.

I wish that were the case

but I don't think it will be

tim

Ophelia

2017-04-18 13:37:16 UTC

It's not. The Act provides that Parliament itself can agree to an early
general election provided that two-thirds of its members vote for it.
And that's what May is going to ask it to do.
Of course, she can't do it just with the votes she currently commands,
but for some reason Corbyn has said in the past that he and his party
will 'of course' vote for it. Why 'of course' I have no idea. It seems
somewhat suicidal at the present time, and it may cause some rebellion
amongst his MPs who fear they might lose their seats.

I can see the very deluded Labour party leader having a three line whip on
most of his MPs to agree to a general election. The far left wingers in
the labour party really think they have the magic bullet to win a GE. This
GE will see the end of the liebour party, and the return of the LD. It’s
going back to the future in 1918. The liberals were the opposition and
the labour party a minority party.

I wish that were the case

but I don't think it will be

tim

==

Nope!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

Vidcapper

2017-04-18 15:06:01 UTC

Post by Jumper
I can see the very deluded Labour party leader having a three line whip
on most of his MPs to agree to a general election. The far left wingers
in the labour party really think they have the magic bullet to win a GE.
This GE will see the end of the liebour party

I disagree.

, and the return of the

Post by Jumper
LD.

Dead cat bounce.

--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

The Todal

2017-04-18 20:18:19 UTC

It's not. The Act provides that Parliament itself can agree to an early
general election provided that two-thirds of its members vote for it.
And that's what May is going to ask it to do.
Of course, she can't do it just with the votes she currently commands,
but for some reason Corbyn has said in the past that he and his party
will 'of course' vote for it. Why 'of course' I have no idea. It seems
somewhat suicidal at the present time, and it may cause some rebellion
amongst his MPs who fear they might lose their seats.

But what fun it would be to have Theresa May announcing with all
gravitas that she has decided to call a general election, only to see
Parliament tell her the next day "no, you can't have one, dear" or "you
can have one, but we've decided it will be two weeks later than the date
you asked for".

We have a Fixed Term Parliament Act, and it seems rather pointless to
have automatic agreement from all the opposition parties despite the
fact that actually we don't need a general election and Theresa May
hasn't put forward a plausible reason for calling for an election.

Norman Wells

2017-04-18 21:29:33 UTC

It's not. The Act provides that Parliament itself can agree to an early
general election provided that two-thirds of its members vote for it.
And that's what May is going to ask it to do.
Of course, she can't do it just with the votes she currently commands,
but for some reason Corbyn has said in the past that he and his party
will 'of course' vote for it. Why 'of course' I have no idea. It seems
somewhat suicidal at the present time, and it may cause some rebellion
amongst his MPs who fear they might lose their seats.

It won't happen. Labour, or rather Corbyn, has already decided to
support the motion. It can hardly do anything else without appearing
totally lacking confidence in its own abilities.

I think the SNP are likewise constrained to vote for it, even though the
only outcome for them will be to lose seats.

Post by The Todal
We have a Fixed Term Parliament Act, and it seems rather pointless to
have automatic agreement from all the opposition parties despite the
fact that actually we don't need a general election and Theresa May
hasn't put forward a plausible reason for calling for an election.

Then you'd better tell that nice Mr Corbyn before it's too late and he
leaps off the cliff. But I won't hold my breath.

Judith

2017-04-18 11:32:21 UTC

We you just can't believe anything the nasty bitch says:

June 30 2016
"There should be no general election until 2020.

September 4 2016
I m not going to be calling a snap election. Ive been very clear that I think
we need that period of time, that stability, to be able to deal with the issues
that the country is facing and have that election in 2020."

October 1 2016
"Theresa May has ruled out the possibility of a general election before 2020
due to the risk of "instability" posed by a snap vote."
March 7 2017

"A No 10 source said: "It's not going to happen. It's not something she plans
to do or wishes to do.""

March 20 2017
"A Downing Street spokesperson told a briefing of journalists in Westminster on
Monday morning: "There is no change in our position on an early general
election. There is not going to be a general election. "

Handsome Jack

2017-04-18 11:42:31 UTC

June 30 2016
"There should be no general election until 2020.
September 4 2016
I ’m not going to be calling a snap election. I’ve been very clear that I think
we need that period of time, that stability, to be able to deal with the issues
that the country is facing and have that election in 2020."
October 1 2016
"Theresa May has ruled out the possibility of a general election before 2020
due to the risk of "instability" posed by a snap vote."
March 7 2017
"A No 10 source said: "It's not going to happen. It's not something she plans
to do or wishes to do.""
March 20 2017
"A Downing Street spokesperson told a briefing of journalists in Westminster on
Monday morning: "There is no change in our position on an early general
election. There is not going to be a general election. "

To be fair to her, she says explicitly in today's statement that she
previously opposed an early election, but has changed her mind because
of circumstances she had not foreseen. That is not lying.

--
Jack

Sid

2017-04-18 11:56:38 UTC

To be fair to her, she says explicitly in today's statement that she
previously opposed an early election, but has changed her mind because
of circumstances she had not foreseen. That is not lying.

June 9th Labour kicked back to where they belong.

2020 Fat Tony still posting lies and bullshit all over UKL.

--

Ophelia

2017-04-18 13:41:33 UTC

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

Nick

2017-04-18 12:04:18 UTC

Post by Handsome Jack
To be fair to her, she says explicitly in today's statement that she
previously opposed an early election, but has changed her mind because
of circumstances she had not foreseen. That is not lying.

Well you don't know that. She may have intended to do this all along.

From a negotiating position it is probably the best thing to do. It
strengthens her authority to speak for the British people.

I supported remain and still hope for a less significant split. It may
be that after the elections in France and German the leaders will be
able to reorganise the EU into something more workable.

Tighter political, economic and financial integration in the core EU
zone allowing for direct financial support to southern Europe. Plus a
looser associated tier for the UK and countries not yet ready for such
an integration.

burfordTjustice

2017-04-18 12:09:43 UTC

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 13:04:18 +0100

Post by Nick
Well you don't know that. She may have intended to do this all along.

You don't know YOUR statement to be true

Nick

2017-04-18 12:17:53 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 13:04:18 +0100

Post by Nick
Well you don't know that. She may have intended to do this all along.

You don't know YOUR statement to be true

Quite right Burford, Handsome Jack may in fact be Theresa May and hence
know her innermost thoughts.

But then, on the other hand, I might be Theresa May and hence know my
statement to be true.

burfordTjustice

2017-04-18 15:49:31 UTC

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 13:17:53 +0100

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 13:04:18 +0100

Post by Nick
Well you don't know that. She may have intended to do this all along.

You don't know YOUR statement to be true

Quite right Burford, Handsome Jack may in fact be Theresa May and
hence know her innermost thoughts.
But then, on the other hand, I might be Theresa May and hence know my
statement to be true.

Naw...

Yellow

2017-04-18 12:55:22 UTC

I can't believe there is anyone still hanging their hat on that notion.

Post by Nick
Tighter political, economic and financial integration in the core EU
zone allowing for direct financial support to southern Europe. Plus a
looser associated tier for the UK and countries not yet ready for such
an integration.

Not *yet* ready?

pamela

2017-04-18 13:41:34 UTC

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 11:30:06 +0100, "tim..."

June 30 2016
"There should be no general election until 2020.
September 4 2016
I âm not going to be calling a snap election. Iâve been very
clear that I think we need that period of time, that stability,
to be able to deal with the issues that the country is facing
and have that election in 2020."
October 1 2016
"Theresa May has ruled out the possibility of a general election
before 2020 due to the risk of "instability" posed by a snap
vote." March 7 2017
"A No 10 source said: "It's not going to happen. It's not
something she plans to do or wishes to do.""
March 20 2017
"A Downing Street spokesperson told a briefing of journalists in
Westminster on Monday morning: "There is no change in our
position on an early general election. There is not going to be
a general election. "

To be fair to her, she says explicitly in today's statement that
she previously opposed an early election, but has changed her
mind because of circumstances she had not foreseen. That is not
lying.

What new circumstances is she claiming? Can't be Brexit because
that was decided before she replaced Cameron.

Handsome Jack

2017-04-18 16:20:47 UTC

Post by Handsome Jack
To be fair to her, she says explicitly in today's statement that
she previously opposed an early election, but has changed her
mind because of circumstances she had not foreseen. That is not
lying.

What new circumstances is she claiming? Can't be Brexit because
that was decided before she replaced Cameron.

The disruptive tactics that are being adopted by the various anti-Brexit
factions.

--
Jack

The Todal

2017-04-18 20:21:52 UTC

Post by Handsome Jack
To be fair to her, she says explicitly in today's statement that
she previously opposed an early election, but has changed her
mind because of circumstances she had not foreseen. That is not
lying.

What new circumstances is she claiming? Can't be Brexit because
that was decided before she replaced Cameron.

The disruptive tactics that are being adopted by the various anti-Brexit
factions.

You mean their support for Theresa May in every vote and their timid
request to be allowed to debate the Brexit deal before it is finally
approved?

Yellow

2017-04-18 20:38:27 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by Handsome Jack
To be fair to her, she says explicitly in today's statement that
she previously opposed an early election, but has changed her
mind because of circumstances she had not foreseen. That is not
lying.

What new circumstances is she claiming? Can't be Brexit because
that was decided before she replaced Cameron.

The disruptive tactics that are being adopted by the various anti-Brexit
factions.

You mean their support for Theresa May in every vote and their timid
request to be allowed to debate the Brexit deal before it is finally
approved?

You mean the remoaners, who by their own admission, who are trying to
stop Brexit by any and every means at their disposal?

R. Mark Clayton

2017-04-18 22:11:58 UTC

Post by Handsome Jack
To be fair to her, she says explicitly in today's statement that
she previously opposed an early election, but has changed her
mind because of circumstances she had not foreseen. That is not
lying.

What new circumstances is she claiming? Can't be Brexit because
that was decided before she replaced Cameron.

The disruptive tactics that are being adopted by the various anti-Brexit
factions.

Oh you mean an opposition that opposes the government - not much sign of that then.

Post by Handsome Jack
--
Jack

Ophelia

2017-04-18 13:41:06 UTC

To be fair to her, she says explicitly in today's statement that she
previously opposed an early election, but has changed her mind because
of circumstances she had not foreseen. That is not lying.

Jack

===

Of course it isn't!! One must work with changing circumstances.

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

The Todal

2017-04-18 20:20:36 UTC

To be fair to her, she says explicitly in today's statement that she
previously opposed an early election, but has changed her mind because
of circumstances she had not foreseen. That is not lying.

And today she tells us that we're leaving the EU come what may. I
wonder whether she'll be telling us about unforseeable circumstances in
August or September, or later, that cause her to perform a
reverse-ferret and lead us back into the safety of the EU?

Yellow

2017-04-18 20:33:17 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by The Todal
And today she tells us that we're leaving the EU come what may. I
wonder whether she'll be telling us about unforseeable circumstances in
August or September, or later, that cause her to perform a
reverse-ferret and lead us back into the safety of the EU?

Safety is to the EU as lifeboat is to Titanic.

The Todal

2017-04-18 20:43:09 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

Safety is to the EU as lifeboat is to Titanic.

Safety, to our politicians, is to do what civil servants recommend and
whatever worked well in the past.

Anyway, you have chosen not to comment on my main point. Do you trust
Theresa to keep her word over Brexit when she has broken her word over
an early election?

Precedent suggests that we shouldn't trust politicians to keep their
word over anything.

Yellow

2017-04-18 22:24:56 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by Yellow
says...

Safety is to the EU as lifeboat is to Titanic.

Safety, to our politicians, is to do what civil servants recommend and
whatever worked well in the past.
Anyway, you have chosen not to comment on my main point. Do you trust
Theresa to keep her word over Brexit when she has broken her word over
an early election?

In answer to your first question, we have had a referendum and A50 has
been triggered so I am not expecting a circumstance where we do not
leave the EU.

And to your second, about the faux outrage. I did not realise she had
"given her word" that there would be no early general election so
assumed it was always an option on the table.

Post by The Todal
Precedent suggests that we shouldn't trust politicians to keep their
word over anything.

I agree, but I don't see why you are so keen to get me to say whether or
not I expect Mrs May to keep the country in the UK.

Where does either answer get you? Or me?

The only option on the table for any of us is to vote for the candidate
that is most likely to give up the item(s) that we most support or to
stop the item(s) we least support.

Yellow

2017-04-18 22:47:44 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

Post by Yellow
says...

Safety is to the EU as lifeboat is to Titanic.

Safety, to our politicians, is to do what civil servants recommend and
whatever worked well in the past.
Anyway, you have chosen not to comment on my main point. Do you trust
Theresa to keep her word over Brexit when she has broken her word over
an early election?

In answer to your first question, we have had a referendum and A50 has
been triggered so I am not expecting a circumstance where we do not
leave the EU.
And to your second, about the faux outrage. I did not realise she had
"given her word" that there would be no early general election so
assumed it was always an option on the table.

Post by The Todal
Precedent suggests that we shouldn't trust politicians to keep their
word over anything.

I agree, but I don't see why you are so keen to get me to say whether or
not I expect Mrs May to keep the country in the UK.

In the EU....

Post by Yellow
Where does either answer get you? Or me?
The only option on the table for any of us is to vote for the candidate
that is most likely to give up the item(s) that we most support or to
stop the item(s) we least support.

Judith

2017-04-18 23:11:47 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

Post by Yellow
says...

Safety is to the EU as lifeboat is to Titanic.

Safety, to our politicians, is to do what civil servants recommend and
whatever worked well in the past.
Anyway, you have chosen not to comment on my main point. Do you trust
Theresa to keep her word over Brexit when she has broken her word over
an early election?

In answer to your first question, we have had a referendum and A50 has
been triggered so I am not expecting a circumstance where we do not
leave the EU.
And to your second, about the faux outrage. I did not realise she had
"given her word" that there would be no early general election so
assumed it was always an option on the table.

So what you are saying is that - so as long as they don't actually use the
term "I give my word" the Tory politicians can lie, and lie again in what they
say and in their manifesto promises.

I had not realised that.

Norman Wells

2017-04-19 08:18:25 UTC

Post by The Todal
Anyway, you have chosen not to comment on my main point. Do you trust
Theresa to keep her word over Brexit when she has broken her word over
an early election?

In answer to your first question, we have had a referendum and A50 has
been triggered so I am not expecting a circumstance where we do not
leave the EU.
And to your second, about the faux outrage. I did not realise she had
"given her word" that there would be no early general election so
assumed it was always an option on the table.

It doesn't matter. There's going to be a General Election whether you
like it or not. May has come up with an amazingly popular proposal that
has attracted overwhelming support. There's not a single party of any
significance in Parliament that opposes it.

Indeed, even those who are going to be harmed big time will be voting
for it.

R. Mark Clayton

2017-04-18 22:10:57 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

Safety is to the EU as lifeboat is to Titanic.

Brexit is to the UK as the iceberg was to the Titanic.

Vidcapper

2017-04-19 07:24:56 UTC

Post by R. Mark Clayton

Post by Yellow
says...

Safety is to the EU as lifeboat is to Titanic.

Brexit is to the UK as the iceberg was to the Titanic.

No matter how many times you claim that, you have zero proof.

--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

Bod

2017-04-19 07:41:11 UTC

Post by R. Mark Clayton

Post by Yellow
says...

Safety is to the EU as lifeboat is to Titanic.

Brexit is to the UK as the iceberg was to the Titanic.

No matter how many times you claim that, you have zero proof.

The trouble with remoaners, is that they can't accept the result of the
referendum and strangely appear to be willing doom and gloom instead of
accepting the result.
They should be working as team UK and losing those chips on their
shoulders for all our benefit.

Judith

2017-04-18 23:07:09 UTC

June 30 2016
"There should be no general election until 2020.
September 4 2016
I m not going to be calling a snap election. Ive been very clear that I think
we need that period of time, that stability, to be able to deal with the issues
that the country is facing and have that election in 2020."
October 1 2016
"Theresa May has ruled out the possibility of a general election before 2020
due to the risk of "instability" posed by a snap vote."
March 7 2017
"A No 10 source said: "It's not going to happen. It's not something she plans
to do or wishes to do.""
March 20 2017
"A Downing Street spokesperson told a briefing of journalists in Westminster on
Monday morning: "There is no change in our position on an early general
election. There is not going to be a general election. "

To be fair to her, she says explicitly in today's statement that she
previously opposed an early election, but has changed her mind because
of circumstances she had not foreseen. That is not lying.

Yes - and some people will fall for the explanation she felt obliged to give.

Nightjar

2017-04-18 11:37:11 UTC

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming
this will put all the theories to test...

I see the LibDems are hoping that strong anti-Brexit feeling will bring
them extra votes as the only English party to oppose it.

--
--

Colin Bignell

tim...

2017-04-18 12:19:03 UTC

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming
this will put all the theories to test...

I see the LibDems are hoping that strong anti-Brexit feeling will bring
them extra votes as the only English party to oppose it.

In English/Welsh seats where LD have been traditionally strong, in regions
which voted remain, almost certainly they will win back some seats. Perhaps
10-15 LD (re)gains (CBA to go down the list to count them).

In seats where LD have been traditionally strong, but which voted leave,
possible but less likely. Perhaps 2 or 3 LD gains.

In seats where LD have traditionally been no-hopers, they will still be
no-hopers regardless of whether leave or remain areas. No change.

In Scotland - probably no change. If anything recent better local
performance by the Tories may gain them a seat or two.

UKIP are in a mess. With a strong leader and a strong message they could
take 30+ seats off Labour in those strongly leave areas that would never
vote for a Tory even if that was the only candidate on the ballot. The
debacle at Stoke suggest that they wont achieve this. No change.

Tory/Labour marginals. There are 37 seats (If I counted right) with Labour
majorities of less than 3000 which on a poor showing they would expect to
lose - but not all of them to the Tories.

Can the rout go much further than that - some commentators are saying that
it will, others that it wont. The Tories only made a net gain of 4500 in
Copeland, and that was with the full force of a targeted campaign team.

Quite where a Tory majority of 100 is going to come from I have no idea

All to play for

tim

Post by Nightjar
--
--
Colin Bignell

Nightjar

2017-04-18 17:41:32 UTC

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming
this will put all the theories to test...

I see the LibDems are hoping that strong anti-Brexit feeling will
bring them extra votes as the only English party to oppose it.

13.3 million people in England voted to remain. If they all chose to
back the LibDems (which is highly unlikely), they would get more votes
than the Conservatives did at the last election. IMO it will very much
depend upon turnout, the voters' dedication to the Remain cause and
their willingness to vote tactically.

Post by tim...
In Scotland - probably no change. If anything recent better local
performance by the Tories may gain them a seat or two.

Whatever the result, it will be interpreted as a vote on independence.

Post by tim...
UKIP are in a mess. With a strong leader and a strong message they
could take 30+ seats off Labour in those strongly leave areas that would
never vote for a Tory even if that was the only candidate on the
ballot. The debacle at Stoke suggest that they wont achieve this. No
change.

May is, of course, gambling that UKIP is a spent force and voters who
defected from the Conservatives will return to the fold.

Post by tim...
Tory/Labour marginals. There are 37 seats (If I counted right) with
Labour majorities of less than 3000 which on a poor showing they would
expect to lose - but not all of them to the Tories.
Can the rout go much further than that - some commentators are saying
that it will, others that it wont. The Tories only made a net gain of
4500 in Copeland, and that was with the full force of a targeted
campaign team.
Quite where a Tory majority of 100 is going to come from I have no idea
All to play for

and all to lose if the gamble fails.

--
--

Colin Bignell

Martin Brown

2017-04-18 13:02:12 UTC

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming
this will put all the theories to test...

Main effect I can see is a day's extra income for our Village Hall.

Post by Nightjar
I see the LibDems are hoping that strong anti-Brexit feeling will bring
them extra votes as the only English party to oppose it.

They are probably right about that at least in Remain constituencies.
I'm not sure how many students have forgiven them yet though.

I expect Labour to be pretty much wiped out in those too. At least after
they have been crushed the handful of MPs they have left may at last be
able to pick a new leader who is actually capable of leading.

The writing was on the wall after Labour lost Copeland by election.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/24/humiliation-jeremy-corbyn-tories-take-copeland-labour-historic/

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Yellow

2017-04-18 13:10:57 UTC

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming
this will put all the theories to test...

Main effect I can see is a day's extra income for our Village Hall.

At least I get to go to the pub. :-)

But I disagree - I think it really will settle a couple of things, like
a 2nd referendums for Scottish independence and how the deal with the EU
will end up being approved. At least, I hope they will get settled!

Post by Nightjar
I see the LibDems are hoping that strong anti-Brexit feeling will bring
them extra votes as the only English party to oppose it.

They are probably right about that at least in Remain constituencies.
I'm not sure how many students have forgiven them yet though.
I expect Labour to be pretty much wiped out in those too. At least after
they have been crushed the handful of MPs they have left may at last be
able to pick a new leader who is actually capable of leading.
The writing was on the wall after Labour lost Copeland by election.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/24/humiliation-jeremy-corbyn-tories-take-copeland-labour-historic/

I am pleased I have a very pro Brexit MP so do not have to look any
further than giving him my vote, again, this time around.

Ophelia

2017-04-18 13:39:49 UTC

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming
this will put all the theories to test...

Main effect I can see is a day's extra income for our Village Hall.

Post by Nightjar
I see the LibDems are hoping that strong anti-Brexit feeling will bring
them extra votes as the only English party to oppose it.

They are probably right about that at least in Remain constituencies.
I'm not sure how many students have forgiven them yet though.
I expect Labour to be pretty much wiped out in those too. At least after
they have been crushed the handful of MPs they have left may at last be
able to pick a new leader who is actually capable of leading.
The writing was on the wall after Labour lost Copeland by election.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/24/humiliation-jeremy-corbyn-tories-take-copeland-labour-historic/

I am pleased I have a very pro Brexit MP so do not have to look any
further than giving him my vote, again, this time around.

===

Lucky you! Heh I don't fancy the chances of those who ignored their
electorate <g>

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

tim...

2017-04-18 16:18:38 UTC

Post by Yellow
I am pleased I have a very pro Brexit MP so do not have to look any
further than giving him my vote, again, this time around.

Oh I'd forgotten about that

We have a unrepentant staunch Remainer in a constituency that's 60-40 Leave.

She was due to be dumped by the boundary changes anyway so I never
considered that I'd have to decide whether to vote for her or not.

but without a viable UKIP alternative no-one else stands a chance of beating
her.

Yellow

2017-04-18 17:01:57 UTC

Post by tim...
/

Post by Yellow
I am pleased I have a very pro Brexit MP so do not have to look any
further than giving him my vote, again, this time around.

Oh I'd forgotten about that
We have a unrepentant staunch Remainer in a constituency that's 60-40 Leave.
She was due to be dumped by the boundary changes anyway so I never
considered that I'd have to decide whether to vote for her or not.
but without a viable UKIP alternative no-one else stands a chance of beating
her.

I think there are going to be quite a few in the same predicament as
you.

Such a shame that UKIP have eaten themselves as they would have had a
genuine opportunity here, not that I would want a UKIP government, but
at least it would have given some folks an alternative.

The Todal

2017-04-18 20:24:15 UTC

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming
this will put all the theories to test...

Main effect I can see is a day's extra income for our Village Hall.

Post by Nightjar
I see the LibDems are hoping that strong anti-Brexit feeling will bring
them extra votes as the only English party to oppose it.

They are probably right about that at least in Remain constituencies.
I'm not sure how many students have forgiven them yet though.
I expect Labour to be pretty much wiped out in those too. At least after
they have been crushed the handful of MPs they have left may at last be
able to pick a new leader who is actually capable of leading.
The writing was on the wall after Labour lost Copeland by election.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/24/humiliation-jeremy-corbyn-tories-take-copeland-labour-historic/

Well, if we're in the business of predictions, I predict that UKIP will
disintegrate, Farage will try to launch his new Patriot Party which will
have all the impact of a wet fart, and Labour will do not as bad as the
polls suggest but nevertheless lose a dozen seats or so.

A lot of trouble and expense to shore up Theresa May and, she would like
to think, give her a blank cheque to do whatever the fuck she likes,
including abandoning Brexit if she thinks "circumstances have changed".

Yellow

2017-04-18 20:50:38 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by The Todal
Well, if we're in the business of predictions, I predict that UKIP will
disintegrate, Farage will try to launch his new Patriot Party which will
have all the impact of a wet fart, and Labour will do not as bad as the
polls suggest but nevertheless lose a dozen seats or so.
A lot of trouble and expense to shore up Theresa May and, she would like
to think, give her a blank cheque to do whatever the fuck she likes,
including abandoning Brexit if she thinks "circumstances have changed".

I take your point about the cost but, on balance, I think it is better
for the House of Commons to get re-jigged now, so it really does
represent the post-referendum people and their opinions, than for
Parliament to fight among itself for the next two years with the
population as passengers.

It is not a perfect system of course, with safe seats and mis-sized
constituencies, but it is the one we have.

Martin Brown

2017-04-19 07:56:16 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

I think Labour may well end up routed in approximately the same way as
the Liberals were after the last election. Led today by a non-leader and
taken over by the zealots of unelectable tendency they haven't a hope of
persuading even their core vote to vote for them now. I never though
that anyone would supplant Michael Foot's catastrophic losses in 1983
but it looks like Corbyn is out to have a damn good try in 2017.

Post by The Todal
A lot of trouble and expense to shore up Theresa May and, she would like
to think, give her a blank cheque to do whatever the fuck she likes,
including abandoning Brexit if she thinks "circumstances have changed".

That would be a very interesting (Chinese usage) outcome wouldn't it!

Post by Yellow
I take your point about the cost but, on balance, I think it is better
for the House of Commons to get re-jigged now, so it really does
represent the post-referendum people and their opinions, than for
Parliament to fight among itself for the next two years with the
population as passengers.

Be careful what you wish for! Post-referendum peoples vote is split 52%
for Brexit and 48% for Remain - there will be more civil war in the Tory
Party MPs although they may be able to get a few more swivel eyed loons
elected since the Kippers are now a spent force and those votes will
mostly go to them. The only thing that has changed here is which side
the Bastards resisting the government's EU policy are on.

Just as Brexiteers made Majors life hell during Maastritch the Remoaners
as you like to call them will do the same to May on Brexit. History will
repeat itself but this time the boot is on the other foot.

Full marks to May for a brilliant tactical manoeuvre though. She may
well extinguish the Labour party as a national political force by this
cunning gambit. Only time will tell who is right.

Post by Yellow
It is not a perfect system of course, with safe seats and mis-sized
constituencies, but it is the one we have.

There are way too many safe seats. Bordering on rotten boroughs where
the right colour tie will get you elected no matter how useless you are.
Inner cities that always vote Labour are the worst examples.

Mine is a a rural North Yorkshire safe Tory shire constituency and we
have had a former hedge fund manager parachuted into it. There is a lot
of synergy there since there are plenty of hedges round here to manage!

No doubt he is actually pretty good as a politician but he has a hard
act to follow (William Hague who was a brilliant constituency MP).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Nightjar

2017-04-19 08:05:03 UTC

On 19-Apr-17 8:56 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
...

Post by Martin Brown
Be careful what you wish for! Post-referendum peoples vote is split 52%
for Brexit and 48% for Remain ...

A poll towards the end of last year suggested that had reversed, with a
small majority now in favour of remaining. Other observers think that it
is more like 1/3 in favour of Brexit, 1/3 in favour of remaining and the
rest thoroughly sick of the whole business.

--
--

Colin Bignell

Vidcapper

2017-04-18 15:11:35 UTC

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming
this will put all the theories to test...

I see the LibDems are hoping that strong anti-Brexit feeling will bring
them extra votes as the only English party to oppose it.

But that would probably be countered by ex-UKIP voters returning
(mostly) to the Tories.

With UKIP probably not being much of a factor this time, I really have
no idea who I will vote for.

--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

Yellow

2017-04-18 15:24:51 UTC

In article <N0qJA.396802$***@fx21.am4>, ***@yahoo.co.uk
says...

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming
this will put all the theories to test...

I see the LibDems are hoping that strong anti-Brexit feeling will bring
them extra votes as the only English party to oppose it.

But that would probably be countered by ex-UKIP voters returning
(mostly) to the Tories.
With UKIP probably not being much of a factor this time, I really have
no idea who I will vote for.

I do it by weighing my top must-haves against my top must-stops and then
voting for the party that achieves the one or two of these that is most
important to me.

I don't see any other way of doing it, given I do not generally vote for
a candidate solely because they represent a particular party.

Yellow

2017-04-18 12:51:31 UTC

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming

Me neither.

Post by tim...
this will put all the theories to test.

Indeed - it will settle a number of things one way or the other.

Post by tim...
quiet exciting really (even though I think it's fundamentally wrong to go
against the fixed term parliament act)

I think I would prefer to go back to the old system, when they can call
an election when they liked, but we are at where we are at but in my
view they should repeal the law rather than act against the spirit of
it.

Ophelia

2017-04-18 13:35:58 UTC

"tim..." wrote in message news:od4pmk$lsq$***@dont-email.me...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713

didn't see that coming

this will put all the theories to test.

quiet exciting really (even though I think it's fundamentally wrong to go
against the fixed term parliament act)

==

Not if she gets the gov OK. Labour has already said they will vote for it:)

I can't wait to see Gina Miller's face:))

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

pamela

2017-04-18 13:50:40 UTC

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming
this will put all the theories to test.
quiet exciting really (even though I think it's fundamentally
wrong to go against the fixed term parliament act)
==
Not if she gets the gov OK. Labour has already said they will
vote for it:)
I can't wait to see Gina Miller's face:))

What about Gina Miller? Didn't once say she supported Brexit (her
case only established the supremacy of Parliament)?

pamela

2017-04-18 13:39:52 UTC

Post by tim...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713
didn't see that coming

Surely it's been on the cards for months.

Theresa May has a narrow majority and some difficult legislation
to pass in this parliament - notably Brexit stuff.

Labour has never been weaker, the LibDems are probably still on
the mat and the exuberance for UKIP evaporated after the
referendum.

Post by tim...
this will put all the theories to test.

It will be interesting to see if individual MPs, particularly Tory
ones, stand and then get elected on an anti-Brexit ticket.

Post by tim...
quiet exciting really (even though I think it's fundamentally
wrong to go against the fixed term parliament act)

R. Mark Clayton

2017-04-18 14:11:20 UTC

Tactically she has a massive lead over Labour, who will be in further disarray after the May council elections (mostly shires, so they do badly anyway).

Strategically her lead is unlikely to increase and by 2020 the real pain of Brexit will be all too apparent, so don't wait until then...

harry

2017-04-18 14:36:41 UTC

I thought she had a face like a smacked arse when she came out of No. 10.
I reckon there's been a massive row in the cabinet meeting.

tim...

2017-04-18 16:22:12 UTC

Post by harry

I thought she had a face like a smacked arse when she came out of No. 10.
I reckon there's been a massive row in the cabinet meeting.

The feeling of the people with the back door to this information is that not
going for an election sooner has been May's choice. Most of the cabinet
have been arguing for it for ages.

I doubt that there are too many put out by this decision.

tim

Yellow

2017-04-18 17:09:08 UTC

Post by harry

I thought she had a face like a smacked arse when she came out of No. 10.
I reckon there's been a massive row in the cabinet meeting.

The feeling of the people with the back door to this information is that not
going for an election sooner has been May's choice. Most of the cabinet
have been arguing for it for ages.

So perhaps it is the Labour Party's recent polling that has swung it?

Post by tim...
I doubt that there are too many put out by this decision.

The Tories do seem confident.

Vidcapper

2017-04-18 15:04:27 UTC

At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

Nick

2017-04-18 15:18:34 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

Yes probably on May 5th after the local elections.

New Labour leader selected without consulting the members.

Labour/Liberal electoral alliance for the General Election, promoted as
remain coalition.

Could be risky for Tories.

Yellow

2017-04-18 15:38:40 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

Yes probably on May 5th after the local elections.
New Labour leader selected without consulting the members.

My understand is that the Labour Party rules would not allow that.

Post by Nick
Labour/Liberal electoral alliance for the General Election, promoted as
remain coalition.

Jerry Corbyn is not a remainer, the public do not like him and the
LibDems are a dead duck - but a lot can happen in two months.

The Greens have suggested in the past that they all get together an only
put one candidate up against the Tories, so as not to split the vote,
but personally I think that is a despicable idea and all credit to
Corbyn, he has always said no.

Post by Nick
Could be risky for Tories.

I guess she thinks the risk is one she has no choice but to take.

Nick

2017-04-18 16:05:32 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

Yes probably on May 5th after the local elections.
New Labour leader selected without consulting the members.

My understand is that the Labour Party rules would not allow that.

That is interesting.

The assumption would be that after a disastrous local election showing
Corbyn would fall on his own sword, not pushed in any way. Labour would
be leaderless with no time to arrange a leadership election.

I mean would happen if a leader died just prior to an election.

So is it cast in stone or do these rules bend to necessity.

Yellow

2017-04-18 16:09:11 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

Yes probably on May 5th after the local elections.
New Labour leader selected without consulting the members.

My understand is that the Labour Party rules would not allow that.

The membership vote for the leader.

Post by Nick
I mean would happen if a leader died just prior to an election.

They have a deputy leader who would, I assume, step in.

Post by Nick
So is it cast in stone or do these rules bend to necessity.

That would depend on the rules.

Ophelia

2017-04-18 18:39:14 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

Yes probably on May 5th after the local elections.
New Labour leader selected without consulting the members.

My understand is that the Labour Party rules would not allow that.

The membership vote for the leader.

Post by Nick
I mean would happen if a leader died just prior to an election.

They have a deputy leader who would, I assume, step in.

Post by Nick
So is it cast in stone or do these rules bend to necessity.

That would depend on the rules.

==

I believe there is another way of getting an election ... something to do
with gov not being able to get anything through?? Does that sound right??

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

Yellow

2017-04-18 20:15:09 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@gmail.com
says...

Post by Ophelia
I believe there is another way of getting an election ... something to do
with gov not being able to get anything through?? Does that sound right??

There was a Labour MP on The Daily Politics who seemed to be saying that
if the government throws in the towel, it would give the other political
parties the opportunity to try to form a government, as the next step.

Ophelia

2017-04-18 20:30:28 UTC

"Yellow" wrote in message news:***@News.Individual.NET...

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@gmail.com
says...

Post by Ophelia
I believe there is another way of getting an election ... something to do
with gov not being able to get anything through?? Does that sound right??

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

Yellow

2017-04-18 22:05:45 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@gmail.com
says...

Post by Yellow
says...

Post by Ophelia
I believe there is another way of getting an election ... something to do
with gov not being able to get anything through?? Does that sound right??

I don't know how they tough it out, but yes, other parties would just
take over.

tim...

2017-04-18 16:27:12 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

Yes probably on May 5th after the local elections.
New Labour leader selected without consulting the members.

My understand is that the Labour Party rules would not allow that.

Even if they did I can't see either faction of the party allowing the
other's nominee through unchallenged.

The MPs are not going to allow the coronation of (for the sake of argument)
John McDonnell

and the rank and file members would not allow the coronation of (for the
sake of a second argument) Keir Starmer

There is no one candidate that they can all coalesce around.

tim

Nick

2017-04-18 17:09:51 UTC

Post by tim...
and the rank and file members would not allow the coronation of (for the
sake of a second argument)

That is not obvious to me.

Apart from living in Camden, Keir Starmer looks credible. I could quite
easily see his coronation pushing Labour to equal poll figures with the
Tories.

There is normally a bump in polling after a shiny new leader is elected.
Particularly a leader that people do not know well enough to dislike.

Yellow

2017-04-18 17:27:24 UTC

Post by tim...
and the rank and file members would not allow the coronation of (for the
sake of a second argument)

That is not obvious to me.

The membership have made it extremely clear to this point, that they
want a left-left leader (and manifesto) and Keir Starmer is not that.

Post by Nick
Apart from living in Camden, Keir Starmer looks credible. I could quite
easily see his coronation pushing Labour to equal poll figures with the
Tories.

I doubt that most of the electorate have ever heard of him.

Post by Nick
There is normally a bump in polling after a shiny new leader is elected.
Particularly a leader that people do not know well enough to dislike.

The problem with Labour is not really Corbyn as an individual, but his
policies. So they would have 7 weeks to elect him and put a more centre
left (and I assume remain-ist) manifesto on the table.

And they would have to get Corbyn to vacate first.

Not impossible, but is it likely?

Nick

2017-04-18 17:42:47 UTC

Post by Nick
That is not obvious to me.

The membership have made it extremely clear to this point, that they
want a left-left leader (and manifesto) and Keir Starmer is not that.

Yep, They will be ignored. The justification being the short time scale
makes consulting them impossible.

This is where I think May might have made a mistake. She should have
called the general election before the local elections or long enough
after to allow for a bloody Labour leadership contest.

Post by Nick
Apart from living in Camden, Keir Starmer looks credible. I could quite
easily see his coronation pushing Labour to equal poll figures with the
Tories.

I doubt that most of the electorate have ever heard of him.

That is his attraction. ;o)

Post by Nick
There is normally a bump in polling after a shiny new leader is elected.
Particularly a leader that people do not know well enough to dislike.

The problem with Labour is not really Corbyn as an individual, but his
policies. So they would have 7 weeks to elect him and put a more centre
left (and I assume remain-ist) manifesto on the table.

5 Weeks, Corbyn goes May 5th, then general election on June 8th.

A competent team would already be working on it as a contingency plan,
unlike what we saw with the the brexit team.

Post by Yellow
And they would have to get Corbyn to vacate first.
Not impossible, but is it likely?

I think it likely. But I won't claim to know my arse from my elbow when
it comes to political machinations.

Yellow

2017-04-18 18:06:10 UTC

Post by Nick
That is not obvious to me.

The membership have made it extremely clear to this point, that they
want a left-left leader (and manifesto) and Keir Starmer is not that.

Yep, They will be ignored. The justification being the short time scale
makes consulting them impossible.

No. Because the membership pick the leader.

Post by Nick
This is where I think May might have made a mistake. She should have
called the general election before the local elections

She has.

Post by Nick
or long enough
after to allow for a bloody Labour leadership contest.

Why would she want to allow the Labour Party time for a leadership
election? Corbyn is the gift who keeps on giving.

Post by Nick
Apart from living in Camden, Keir Starmer looks credible. I could quite
easily see his coronation pushing Labour to equal poll figures with the
Tories.

I doubt that most of the electorate have ever heard of him.

That is his attraction. ;o)

You really think changing the leader, at the last minute, from someone
they dislike to someone they have not heard of would make them all turn
out and vote Labour?

It would be an interesting experiment I guess.

Post by Nick
There is normally a bump in polling after a shiny new leader is elected.
Particularly a leader that people do not know well enough to dislike.

The problem with Labour is not really Corbyn as an individual, but his
policies. So they would have 7 weeks to elect him and put a more centre
left (and I assume remain-ist) manifesto on the table.

5 Weeks, Corbyn goes May 5th, then general election on June 8th.
A competent team would already be working on it as a contingency plan,
unlike what we saw with the the brexit team.

Yes, because the Labour Party are nothing if not competent.

But even if "they" were, that is one heck of a stretch, given they do
not know what the policies of a new leader would be.

Post by Yellow
And they would have to get Corbyn to vacate first.
Not impossible, but is it likely?

I think it likely. But I won't claim to know my arse from my elbow when
it comes to political machinations.

I think your post is moving further and further into la-la-land, but the
advantage of a short run up to an election is that we do not have long
to wait to find out.

Nick

2017-04-18 21:24:58 UTC

Post by Yellow
Why would she want to allow the Labour Party time for a leadership
election? Corbyn is the gift who keeps on giving.

Because a conventional Labour leadership election would be a very messy
affair. An executive coup on the other hand could be quite clean. May
has provided a potential route for Labour MPs to avoid an orthodox
contest and just have a coronation.

[snip]

Post by Yellow
You really think changing the leader, at the last minute, from someone
they dislike to someone they have not heard of would make them all turn
out and vote Labour?

Yes history tells us there is a bounce after a successful change. The
media would probably fawn over a successful coup just as they have
relentlessly disparaged Corbyn.

[snip]

Post by Nick
A competent team would already be working on it as a contingency plan,
unlike what we saw with the the brexit team.

Yes, because the Labour Party are nothing if not competent.

Many labour people are PR types, competent at presenting spin. Not
competent at substantial policy, just spin. With only weeks of scrutiny
spin may be hard to challenge in the eyes of a gullible electorate.

Post by Yellow
But even if "they" were, that is one heck of a stretch, given they do
not know what the policies of a new leader would be.

What I'm saying is that any potential leadership team should be
preparing a pitch now. Francis Urquhart would be.

[snip]

Post by Yellow
I think your post is moving further and further into la-la-land, but the
advantage of a short run up to an election is that we do not have long
to wait to find out.

Yes I know it is silly to make short term predictions, but I have no
reputation to defend and it is fun.

The Todal

2017-04-18 20:35:53 UTC

Post by Yellow
The problem with Labour is not really Corbyn as an individual, but his
policies. So they would have 7 weeks to elect him and put a more centre
left (and I assume remain-ist) manifesto on the table.
And they would have to get Corbyn to vacate first.
Not impossible, but is it likely?

Why do you imagine that Corbyn's policies are unpopular? They are
popular with the public and popular with all the different factions in
the Labour Party.

The attempts to oust him have always been about his supposed weakness
and inability to lead. And his history of supposed support for Hamas and
supposed support for antisemitism.

Many members of the public say that they like him but he isn't their
idea of a PM. They now have a chance to change their minds. There's no
point in trying to persuade Labour to change it's leader - too late for
that.

A man with very little charism now faces a woman with very little
charisma. Could be interesting. But although I shall of course be
campaigning for a Labour victory with my Momentum chums, so far the only
party political broadcast that has really impressed me has been from the
Green Party - very professionally made, and very hard-hitting. If Labour
could produce the same quality of material they could do better than
widely predicted.

Yellow

2017-04-18 22:37:46 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Why do you imagine that Corbyn's policies are unpopular?

Imagine? Have you not seen to poll data?

Post by The Todal
They are
popular with the public

No they aren't.

Post by The Todal
and popular with all the different factions in
the Labour Party.

No they aren't.

Post by The Todal
The attempts to oust him have always been about his supposed weakness
and inability to lead. And his history of supposed support for Hamas and
supposed support for antisemitism.

The attempts to oust him have been because the Labour Party, with him
and his policies at the helm, are unelectable.

Post by The Todal
Many members of the public say that they like him but he isn't their
idea of a PM. They now have a chance to change their minds. There's no
point in trying to persuade Labour to change it's leader - too late for
that.

As an opposition, the Labour Party are letting down the whole country,
but at this moment in time, I do not want Labour to change their leader.

I want Brexit, so I want the Tories to win and to win reasonably well.

Post by The Todal
A man with very little charism now faces a woman with very little
charisma.

The polls suggest that people quite like Mrs May as PM.

Post by The Todal
Could be interesting. But although I shall of course be
campaigning for a Labour victory with my Momentum chums, so far the only
party political broadcast that has really impressed me has been from the
Green Party - very professionally made, and very hard-hitting.

Anyone who thinks the Greens are the way to go should have a
conversation with the residents of Brighton and Hove, who lived under a
Green council.

Shambles is not a big enough word. They were mad people, with bizarre
personal agendas and an inability to work together as a team for the
common good of the actual residents. They could not even organise the
recycling, and that is no joke. Look at UKIP and and multiply by 1,000.

But Caroline Lucas is a good constituency MP, from what people say.

Post by The Todal
If Labour
could produce the same quality of material they could do better than
widely predicted.

They will not win the south. And I expect, if Peter Kyle is deselected
in favour of a "momentum candidate", they will lose Hove too.

The Todal

2017-04-18 23:00:18 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

Why do you imagine that Corbyn's policies are unpopular?

Imagine? Have you not seen to poll data?

Have you?

They are excellent, vote-winning policies.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/85102/poll-shows-public-support-jeremy

"Recent policies unveiled by Jeremy Corbyn are supported by the majority
of the public, according to new polling which also shows the
Conservatives stretching their lead over Labour further".

No doubt the best way of attacking Labour will be to say "you haven't
done your sums, and the country can't afford these policies" so it will
require some deft salesmanship.

Here you go: hardly very controversial:

http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/policies

kat

2017-04-18 23:16:42 UTC

Post by The Todal
"Recent policies unveiled by Jeremy Corbyn are supported by the majority
of the public, according to new polling which also shows the
Conservatives stretching their lead over Labour further".

Brilliant.

--
kat

Post by The Todal
^..^<

Yellow

2017-04-19 00:05:14 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by Yellow
says...

Post by The Todal
Why do you imagine that Corbyn's policies are unpopular?

Imagine? Have you not seen to poll data?

And reading further it tells us that the recent policy is free school
meals paid for by taxing private school fees, supported by 53%.

Yep - that is the way to win an election. :-))))

Post by The Todal
No doubt the best way of attacking Labour will be to say "you haven't
done your sums, and the country can't afford these policies" so it will
require some deft salesmanship.

I doubt many will even get that far long with their thinking, as the
problem with Labour is the whole, but Labour have already explained they
are happy to borrow to spend - so we know where the money is coming
from.
Make no difference to me one way or another because I will be voting for
the party most likely to give us Brexit - and that is not Labour.

Post by The Todal
http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/policies

Money to the Arts council but nothing about how we are going to fund
social care. Yep, that's the ticket.

Will they be reusing the ed-stone, and carve this on the back?

Altroy1

2017-04-19 08:22:12 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

[...]

Post by Yellow
As an opposition, the Labour Party are letting down the whole country,
but at this moment in time, I do not want Labour to change their leader.
I want Brexit, so I want the Tories to win and to win reasonably well.

Mrs May wants an election now. To wait until 2020 means the EU deal Mrs
May and her ilk negotiate will still be fresh in Brexiteers minds and
there's no way the Tories can countenance that. Also at present there's
little chance that the grammar school pet project will go through.
Thanks to the gift of an increased majority given to her by the
Brexiteers, that could change.

Vidcapper

2017-04-19 06:52:38 UTC

Why do you imagine that Corbyn's policies are unpopular? They are
popular with the public and popular with all the different factions in
the Labour Party.

What planet are you living on??

In any case, saying Labour likes his policies is like preaching to the
converted - but you need far wider support to win a general election,
and every opinion poll says Labour has the exact opposite...

--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

Altroy1

2017-04-19 08:16:07 UTC

The Labour critics re Corbyn have said "he is not a leader".

Here's Corbyns chance to prove them wrong: No Mrs May, you can't have an
election unless you agree to at least three TV debates. Or yes you can
have an election but in a longer time frame so I have more time to make
up for the hostile media.

If Corbyn signs up to a Tory time frame and Mrs May not having to take
part in at least several TV debates then I would start to suspect that
indeed, Mr Corbyn is not a leader.

Yellow

2017-04-18 17:14:48 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

Yes probably on May 5th after the local elections.
New Labour leader selected without consulting the members.

My understand is that the Labour Party rules would not allow that.

Even if they did I can't see either faction of the party allowing the
other's nominee through unchallenged.
The MPs are not going to allow the coronation of (for the sake of argument)
John McDonnell
and the rank and file members would not allow the coronation of (for the
sake of a second argument) Keir Starmer
There is no one candidate that they can all coalesce around.

Good point - it would be out of the frying pan into the fire, more upset
and argument.

The Todal

2017-04-18 20:37:32 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

Yes probably on May 5th after the local elections.
New Labour leader selected without consulting the members.

My understand is that the Labour Party rules would not allow that.

Even if they did I can't see either faction of the party allowing the
other's nominee through unchallenged.
The MPs are not going to allow the coronation of (for the sake of argument)
John McDonnell
and the rank and file members would not allow the coronation of (for the
sake of a second argument) Keir Starmer
There is no one candidate that they can all coalesce around.

Good point - it would be out of the frying pan into the fire, more upset
and argument.

My money's on Emily Thornberry. Time for a woman to lead the party, and
all the other women are lacking in talent or too arrogant and pushy.

Yellow

2017-04-18 22:42:47 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

Yes probably on May 5th after the local elections.
New Labour leader selected without consulting the members.

My understand is that the Labour Party rules would not allow that.

Even if they did I can't see either faction of the party allowing the
other's nominee through unchallenged.
The MPs are not going to allow the coronation of (for the sake of argument)
John McDonnell
and the rank and file members would not allow the coronation of (for the
sake of a second argument) Keir Starmer
There is no one candidate that they can all coalesce around.

Good point - it would be out of the frying pan into the fire, more upset
and argument.

My money's on Emily Thornberry. Time for a woman to lead the party, and
all the other women are lacking in talent or too arrogant and pushy.

You do not consider her arrogant and pushy? She is surely general-in-
chief.

I think the only Labour MP who could take over now, today and win seats
in 7 weeks time, is Hilary Benn. But he will never get elected by the
members because he is not left left enough.

Or Ed Balls. :-)

The Todal

2017-04-18 23:03:43 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

Yes probably on May 5th after the local elections.
New Labour leader selected without consulting the members.

My understand is that the Labour Party rules would not allow that.

Even if they did I can't see either faction of the party allowing the
other's nominee through unchallenged.
The MPs are not going to allow the coronation of (for the sake of argument)
John McDonnell
and the rank and file members would not allow the coronation of (for the
sake of a second argument) Keir Starmer
There is no one candidate that they can all coalesce around.

Good point - it would be out of the frying pan into the fire, more upset
and argument.

My money's on Emily Thornberry. Time for a woman to lead the party, and
all the other women are lacking in talent or too arrogant and pushy.

You do not consider her arrogant and pushy? She is surely general-in-
chief.
I think the only Labour MP who could take over now, today and win seats
in 7 weeks time, is Hilary Benn. But he will never get elected by the
members because he is not left left enough.

It isn't about whether he is left enough. He's a warmonger. He supported
the invasion of Iraq, and ever since he has declared that no matter what
Chilcot says, it was right to invade Iraq and given the chance we should
do the same thing again.

Post by Yellow
Or Ed Balls. :-)

Much disliked by everyone.

Perhaps someone will come forward who is a totally blank canvas, a
person who can be all things to all people.

Yellow

2017-04-19 00:12:54 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by Yellow
says...
I think the only Labour MP who could take over now, today and win seats
in 7 weeks time, is Hilary Benn. But he will never get elected by the
members because he is not left left enough.

It isn't about whether he is left enough.

Of course it is.

Post by The Todal
He's a warmonger. He supported
the invasion of Iraq, and ever since he has declared that no matter what
Chilcot says, it was right to invade Iraq and given the chance we should
do the same thing again.

Really - you think that is the reason the members of the Labour Party
would not support the only man who could realistically, today, lead the
party to winning seats.

The point I am making is that as a "normal voter" without an affiliation
to the Labour Party (or any other) he is an acceptable face who could
win.

But that, quite clearly, is not the aim. And that is up there with all
the other issues many voters have with today's Labour Party.

Post by Yellow
Or Ed Balls. :-)

Much disliked by everyone.

Not by me.

Post by The Todal
Perhaps someone will come forward who is a totally blank canvas, a
person who can be all things to all people.

That might well happen in the future, but not in the next 7 weeks.

Vidcapper

2017-04-19 06:46:53 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

Yes probably on May 5th after the local elections.
New Labour leader selected without consulting the members.
Labour/Liberal electoral alliance for the General Election, promoted as
remain coalition.
Could be risky for Tories.

Not a chance - this election is about who will run the country, *not*
who still has a bee in their bonnet over the lost referendum!

--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-04-18 20:21:52 UTC

At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

No. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39631792
Keep the lefty communists away for 5 more years.

--
Brazil nuts are an STD. If you eat a Brazil nut then have sex with someone who has nut allergies, they will have an allergic reaction.

The Peeler

2017-04-18 20:34:19 UTC

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 21:21:52 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

Post by Vidcapper
At least it will allow Labour to oust Corbyn quicker than expected.

No. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39631792
Keep the lefty communists away for 5 more years.

Is there NO thread that you won't infest with your idiocy, Birdbrain?

--
More details from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) strange
world:
"I have never found out the purpose of underpants".
(Courtesy of Mr Pounder)

Vidcapper

2017-04-18 15:07:48 UTC

What happens if she doesn't get enough HoC votes to override the Fixed
Term Act?

--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

Yellow

2017-04-18 15:16:58 UTC

In article <eZpJA.396766$***@fx21.am4>, ***@yahoo.co.uk
says...

What happens if she doesn't get enough HoC votes to override the Fixed
Term Act?

There would be no election.

But Corbyn has agreed, so she will get enough.

tim...

2017-04-18 16:28:23 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

What happens if she doesn't get enough HoC votes to override the Fixed
Term Act?

There would be no election.
But Corbyn has agreed, so she will get enough.

he has so far

he may change his mind tomorrow

tim

Yellow

2017-04-18 17:16:44 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

What happens if she doesn't get enough HoC votes to override the Fixed
Term Act?

There would be no election.
But Corbyn has agreed, so she will get enough.

he has so far
he may change his mind tomorrow

Yes, that is true. And wouldn't that be interesting.

The Todal

2017-04-18 20:39:32 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

What happens if she doesn't get enough HoC votes to override the Fixed
Term Act?

There would be no election.
But Corbyn has agreed, so she will get enough.

he has so far
he may change his mind tomorrow

Yes, that is true. And wouldn't that be interesting.

It would be fun to see the HoC humiliate a PM. She could taunt the
Labour Party with allegations of cowardice but she would still look as
if she had lost a lot of authority.

Yellow

2017-04-18 22:43:47 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by Yellow
says...

What happens if she doesn't get enough HoC votes to override the Fixed
Term Act?

There would be no election.
But Corbyn has agreed, so she will get enough.

he has so far
he may change his mind tomorrow

Yes, that is true. And wouldn't that be interesting.

It would be fun to see the HoC humiliate a PM. She could taunt the
Labour Party with allegations of cowardice but she would still look as
if she had lost a lot of authority.

It would certainly leave her in a much weaker position than she is in
now.

Vidcapper

2017-04-19 07:31:40 UTC

Post by Yellow
says...

What happens if she doesn't get enough HoC votes to override the Fixed
Term Act?

There would be no election.
But Corbyn has agreed, so she will get enough.

That's just one more vote though - ISTM more pragmatic Labour MP's will
clearly see the writing on the wall, and refuse to support an early
election.

--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

burfordTjustice

2017-04-18 15:49:04 UTC

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 16:07:48 +0100

What happens if she doesn't get enough HoC votes to override the
Fixed Term Act?

LOL....why would you even ask such a thing, WTF??

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-04-18 20:22:20 UTC

Agreed - why should those in power have the option to choose a good time for them to have another election?

--
Is an infirmary a place for people who can't get it up?

The Peeler

2017-04-18 20:35:14 UTC

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 21:22:20 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),

Post by tim...
quiet exciting really (even though I think it's fundamentally wrong to go
against the fixed term parliament act)

Agreed

Stop insulting people by agreeing with them, Birdbrain!

--
Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson") about himself:
"My IQ is superiour to that of most people".
"I am inferior in some ways but superior in other ways".
"I admit I should not have been born".
(Courtesy of Mr Pounder)

Norman Wells

2017-04-18 21:23:09 UTC

Agreed - why should those in power have the option to choose a good time
for them to have another election?

They always have. And now it seems even when they haven't, they have.
No opposition can afford to say no to a General Election without seeming
appallingly weak. They're supposed to want to overthrow the government
after all at any opportunity. If they say no, it means they have no
confidence in themselves.

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-04-19 00:29:03 UTC

Agreed - why should those in power have the option to choose a good time
for them to have another election?

The answer is simple. Fixed 5 year term.

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on newsgroups?

The Peeler

2017-04-19 00:53:41 UTC

On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 01:29:03 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),