[....]
Post by James HarrisPost by Altroy1"We need huge support from the EU. All this messy stuff, it
sends the wrong message to the people," Vucic said.
Given the above I would call it applying and then getting exasperated at
the EU's slow response. They'd better get used to it!
I'd call it begging to be let in rather than join the Brexit dream
of trade with the rest of the world (which just happens to be the
5 eyes countries and little else). Ukraine will have the greatest
problem getting in. It overthrew a democratically elected
president in a dubious coup and elements of its government are so
right-wing they make the Alternativ fuer Deutchland party look
like a bunch of namby-pamby liberal leftie refugee-loving tree
huggers.
Post by James HarrisPost by Altroy1Post by James HarrisPost by Altroy1To the Brexit mindset, when to them the greatest nation on earth defends itself
with a 219% tariff - that is wholly legitimate. But if the wicked EU does it
that would be unbridled evil.
You are delusional.
Is this intended to be a rebuttal? An insult? Whatever. A non argument if ever
there was one.
Sorry, I wouldn't normally make an accusation without explaining why.
Looks like I missed something.
... checks back ...
Oh, yes. Point was that you are claiming to know the Brexit mindset -
which your comments show is an invalid claim - and you appear to assert
that a Brexiteer would apply different standards to the US and the EU.
I should qualify that I should not claim to have either
represented nor misrepresented the vast majority of the Brexit
vote. Some voted for the NHS to get more money. Some blamed the
CFP and CAP for ills on their community. Some were libertarians
that blamed the EU for interefering in peoples lives & so on.
Certain views count for little, though. Such as those on talk
shows lamenting this proposed transition period and cant
understand why when they voted to get out of the EU on a
Thursday, the UK hadn't left by Friday morning. Such are not
compos mentis enough to run a referendum campaign never mind run a
country.
The views that do count are the elites, on both sides, who are
skilled enough both to run a country and run a political campaign.
If they are clever enough to be in a position to run a country
their views count. Even if their views are dangerous. Nicky Morgan
knew arch Americanophile Hannan quite well from University days.
She was also a government cabinet minister and saw how these
people worked close at hand at the higest level of power. Here is
some of her view:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tory-party-conference-boris-johnson-brexiteers-florence-speech-nicky-morgan-undermining-a7975806.html
The UK Government should be focusing on getting the UK out of
the EU in the least damaging way, not debating arbitrary red
lines set down to try to curry favour with those who want a
utopian ultra free trade, low tax, minimal regulation state.
Those who are pushing this agenda have no place in a responsible
government - it is a dereliction of their duty to act in the
national interest. And it has to stop.
Post by James HarrisHence, your comments show you are under a delusion. Your next comments
confirm it! (Brexiteers have different opinions and no one of them
speaks for all the others.)
No. Permit me to point out it's the opinions of the powerful elite
who despise the NHS with a passion but went around with that lying
battlebus are the ones that count.
Among the most important are the views of this Free Trade
Institute and its leading lights: BOJO, Liam Fox, Moggmentum,
Daniel Hannan.
Let's look at Daniel Hannan's views about his greatest nation on
earth. A few years back he gave a speech in the US to CPAC and in
it articulated his deep deep love for America and its privatised
health system:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2846097/posts
HANNAN: Let me end with a heartfelt imprecation from a British
conservative who loves his country, to American conservatives who
still believe in theirs. Honor the vision of your founders, cleave
to the most sublime Constitution devised by human intelligence.
Don't be the generation that cuts itself off from the wisdom of
your fathers and disinherits your children.
And he wasn't done. There's more:
Never be afraid to speak to and for the soul of this nation, of
which by good fortune and God's grace you are privileged to be a
part. God bless you, my friends, God bless America, and God
bless the alliance of the free English speaking nations. Thank
you.
Oh, my. This from him and is ilk that scuppered House of
Lords reform to preserve the world's second largest unelected
parliamentary chamber ever. I wonder what part of that "most
sublime Constitution devised by human intelligence" gave the
scupperers of HoL reform the inspiration.
And yes the Brexit case is significantly about the rejection of
the non native English speaking immigrant and the intereference of
the non member of the 5-eyes English speaking countries bureaucrat
in the lives of the free Alliance of English Speaking peoples. The
problem is that such an alliance with the 5-eyes nations means the
UK rejects frictionless borders with it's closest neighbours in
favour of this 5-Eyes surveillance alliance where the nearest
borders (if you could even call them borders) thousands of miles
away so that such matters as border checks can be glossed over and
dispensed with more succinctly.
[....]
Post by James HarrisPost by Altroy1Nice try. When America cites America First it means its jobs, economic and
political coherence comes first. End of. America first not only means jobs it
means a wall to maintain Americas ethnic coherence as well. But of course if the
EU built a wall to keep out the Syrian refugees, in the Brexit mindset that
would be the dictatorial EU at it again.
I don't recognise your description of the Brexit mindset. I suggest you
have developed a prejudice which blinds you to variation in view.
Prejudice!? Like going around on a £350 million more to the NHS
per week lying battlebus whilst simultaneously rejecting the NHS
as the obvious construction of Karl Marx, Engels, Lenin, Jeremy
Corbyn and Satan himself?
I guess that's not what you're thinking. Never mind. Here is the
mindset anyway:
http://www.delawarepolitics.net/brilliant-mep-daniel-hannan-explains-socialisms-failure/
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/brad-wilmouth/2009/08/10/fnc-interviews-brit-who-warns-america-against-national-health-care
http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/04/08/daniel-hannan-on-the-disaster-known-as-socialized-health-care/
Some of the believers in the American Revolution want Hannan as
their president certainly rather than that foreign born, dark
skinned interloper, Obama:
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/03/30/mep-daniel-hannan-on-morning-joe-1.php
Hannan should get a Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii so he
could run for President here!
8. Posted by P. Bunyan | March 31, 2009 2:45 PM
...
True P. Bunyan, just like Obama should get a certificate of live
birth from Afghanistan or wherever He was born and resign
immediately.
10. Posted by 419 | March 31, 2009 5:08 PM
Post by James HarrisPost by Altroy1Post by James HarrisIt should, in fact, put the prosperity and safety
of its people first, as I would expect the UK and the US to do. Those
priorities are very different.
Nice try in trying to draw an artificial distinction between the EU and US. The
US fought a very bloody civil war to maintain its political coherence. Welfare
of the believers in slavery in the Deep South was not always the highest
priority on Lincoln and his Generals minds. Fast forward to the present and
still the United States of America will take instructions about free trade from
no-one.
The EU will drive a hard bargain to discourage other separatism.
On that we agree.
The Brexit mindset cried "blackmail" as the EU refused to discuss
future trading relationships until the exit bill, the Irish
border and the role, if any, of the ECJ is sorted out. Blackmail
the cry of the weaker party.
Post by James HarrisNote the big contrast with the UK aiding and
supporting the devolved administrations to help them be a success. In
complete contrast, the EU fears that seceding states will succeed and
will do what it thinks is necessary to ensure that they are worse off.
Irrelevant badmouthing of the EU. What is more relevant was the
attitude of the UK to the Scots if they went down the path of
separatism:-
* No say in the running of the Bank of England.
* No automatic entry of Scotland into the EU.
* Customs checks aplenty. Ultra high tariffs.
* Piss off Jocks, forget about using our Sterling.
Michel Barnier is no fool. Michel Barnier is delivering
the same message to the UK as Moggmentum and the rest of
them once delivered to the Scots.
Catalonia is being dealt with in a similar manner. Iraq is
imposing a no fly zone into and out of Kurdistan. Sterner
measures to follow. The UK is not going to be allowed to
walk out of the EU on a Monday to a cosy free trade deal
on a Tuesday. Failure to get a grip with that is a delusion.
[....]
Post by James HarrisNo.
You know, it would help to discuss things with you if you responded to
what people say rather than what you assume they think.
Not always. Sometimes absence of evidence is evidence of
absence.
The absence of strong criticism of the Land of the Free's 219%
tariff by the usual Brexiters here is telling. Particularly
telling is by contrasting the same posters spew about the EU day
and daily. The Brexit mindset holds the EU's defence of its
structural and economic integrity as the traitorous inclinations
of the Brussels bureaucrat. The Brexit mindset holds, at worst,
the Land of Hope and Glory's 219% tariff as a possible mistake
that may well be corrected at some future point. The Brexit
mindset holds that at worst, the Land of the Free's naughty,
tariff-imposing wrist may need to be lightly slapped by a tiny
sliver of wet lettuce.
And the Brexit posters here are rather more articulate and gifted
with words than most of the general population. If they wanted to
they could aim a diatribe or two against the tariff-loving Land of
the Free even with its most sublime Constitution ever devised by
human intelligence.
Post by James HarrisPost by Altroy1Thank you so very much for yet again illustrating so loud and so proud that in
UK/US free trade deal negotiations one and ony one side will have the whip hand.
Post by James HarrisBesides, aren't the imports from
Canada rather than from the UK?
No, you know its not that simple. Consider not pretending otherwise. Mrs May has
not just the right but the duty to protect the jobs of her citizens and well you
know it.
You think you can tell what I know and what I don't know. You are wrong.
You have no idea what my thoughts are other than what I've written -
which you seem keen to ignore so that you can give preference to your
own assumptions rather than reality.
No I don't but then I also less posted allegations of a personal
nature.
As to the Brexit mindset, that is the mindset of those that
count, it is wishy washy delusional thinking. Delusional thinking
about the joys of Brexit. Delusional thinking about the beauty of
the Land of the Free's "wonderful" privatised health service, one
of the most expensive health systems in the world with its flaws
so brutally demonstrated in Michael Moores film "sicko".
Nicky Morgan has actually worked with these people and their 5
eyes utopian dream of the English Speaking alliance of Adam Smith
wealth-of-nations capitalism and their rejection of the satanic
NHS and all its works. I don't doubt her judgement for a minute.