Lipsore, Monday 12/6

[Penny]

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

How do you solve a problem like Freddie?

Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.

Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.

He'll be fine.

[Mike]

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

..... or hang him in the cruck barn.

[Sally Thompson]

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

I remember one of my son's teachers saying to me that all teenagers should
be sent a long way away at age 13 and returned at 21. I agreed with him
then and now!

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

I remember one of my son's teachers saying to me that all teenagers should
be sent a long way away at age 13 and returned at 21. I agreed with him
then and now!

Rather unfair on the citizens of a long way away though.

[Mike]

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

I remember one of my son's teachers saying to me that all teenagers should
be sent a long way away at age 13 and returned at 21. I agreed with him
then and now!

Rather unfair on the citizens of a long way away though.

Or they could all be promised that they will be going to 'The Island'
😉😳😊

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Mike

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

I remember one of my son's teachers saying to me that all teenagers should
be sent a long way away at age 13 and returned at 21. I agreed with him
then and now!

Rather unfair on the citizens of a long way away though.

Or they could all be promised that they will be going to 'The Island'
😉😳😊

I'm not convinced the 'islanders' will be very pleased!

Sincerely Chris

[LFS]

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

I remember one of my son's teachers saying to me that all teenagers should
be sent a long way away at age 13 and returned at 21. I agreed with him
then and now!

Rather unfair on the citizens of a long way away though.

Very. Try living in a place like Oxford that is flooded every summer
with language school students whose parents must be having a welcome
respite.

[Chris McMillan]

Post by LFS

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

I remember one of my son's teachers saying to me that all teenagers should
be sent a long way away at age 13 and returned at 21. I agreed with him
then and now!

Rather unfair on the citizens of a long way away though.

Very. Try living in a place like Oxford that is flooded every summer
with language school students whose parents must be having a welcome
respite.

And not thinking how unruly their darlings become in a foreign land!

Sincerely Chris

[Vicky]

On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 14:40:45 GMT, Chris McMillan

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by LFS

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

I remember one of my son's teachers saying to me that all teenagers should
be sent a long way away at age 13 and returned at 21. I agreed with him
then and now!

Rather unfair on the citizens of a long way away though.

Very. Try living in a place like Oxford that is flooded every summer
with language school students whose parents must be having a welcome
respite.

And not thinking how unruly their darlings become in a foreign land!
Sincerely Chris

I know! Some of my earliest English Language teaching was groups of
French kids sent over for 2 or 3 week courses. They thought it was a
holiday. Mid-teens were the worst. They ignored me and carried on
courting in the classroom.

[Penny]

On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 21:30:28 +0100, Vicky <***@gmail.com> scrawled
in the dust...

Post by Vicky
Some of my earliest English Language teaching was groups of
French kids sent over for 2 or 3 week courses. They thought it was a
holiday. Mid-teens were the worst. They ignored me and carried on
courting in the classroom.

Quite the worst groups of visiting schoolchildren in Canterbury were the
French. Loud, rude and oblivious to everyone else, I reckon the Japanese
tourists were the most horrified by them.

[LFS]

Post by Penny
in the dust...

Post by Vicky
Some of my earliest English Language teaching was groups of
French kids sent over for 2 or 3 week courses. They thought it was a
holiday. Mid-teens were the worst. They ignored me and carried on
courting in the classroom.

Quite the worst groups of visiting schoolchildren in Canterbury were the
French. Loud, rude and oblivious to everyone else, I reckon the Japanese
tourists were the most horrified by them.

The Italians are very noisy but very apologetic when you point that out
to them.

The university used to let out the campus over the summer as soon as our
students had left. When I first worked there, it was let to Saga
Holidays which was great because the elderly made no noise, went off on
trips and were pleasant to chat to when you met them around the place.
There was also a regular brass band workshop led by Harry Mortimer. If
you liked brass band music, as I do, this was brilliant. I used to look
forward to working in my office over the summer, a very productive time.

Then the language schools arrived. The noise was unbelievable and you
couldn't get any food or drink because of the queues of unruly
youngsters. It became impossible to work in my office. When I complained
about this and suggested ways that some order and quiet could be
maintained, I was told by a woman in conference administration that,
without the income she brought in, I wouldn't have a job.

[Mike]

Post by LFS

Post by Penny
in the dust...

Post by Vicky
Some of my earliest English Language teaching was groups of
French kids sent over for 2 or 3 week courses. They thought it was a
holiday. Mid-teens were the worst. They ignored me and carried on
courting in the classroom.

Quite the worst groups of visiting schoolchildren in Canterbury were the
French. Loud, rude and oblivious to everyone else, I reckon the Japanese
tourists were the most horrified by them.

The Italians are very noisy but very apologetic when you point that out
to them.
The university used to let out the campus over the summer as soon as our
students had left. When I first worked there, it was let to Saga
Holidays which was great because the elderly made no noise, went off on
trips and were pleasant to chat to when you met them around the place.
There was also a regular brass band workshop led by Harry Mortimer. If
you liked brass band music, as I do, this was brilliant. I used to look
forward to working in my office over the summer, a very productive time.
Then the language schools arrived. The noise was unbelievable and you
couldn't get any food or drink because of the queues of unruly
youngsters. It became impossible to work in my office. When I complained
about this and suggested ways that some order and quiet could be
maintained, I was told by a woman in conference administration that,
without the income she brought in, I wouldn't have a job.

YANAOU!

[Vicky]

Post by LFS

Post by Penny
in the dust...

Post by Vicky
Some of my earliest English Language teaching was groups of
French kids sent over for 2 or 3 week courses. They thought it was a
holiday. Mid-teens were the worst. They ignored me and carried on
courting in the classroom.

Quite the worst groups of visiting schoolchildren in Canterbury were the
French. Loud, rude and oblivious to everyone else, I reckon the Japanese
tourists were the most horrified by them.

The Italians are very noisy but very apologetic when you point that out
to them.
The university used to let out the campus over the summer as soon as our
students had left. When I first worked there, it was let to Saga
Holidays which was great because the elderly made no noise, went off on
trips and were pleasant to chat to when you met them around the place.
There was also a regular brass band workshop led by Harry Mortimer. If
you liked brass band music, as I do, this was brilliant. I used to look
forward to working in my office over the summer, a very productive time.
Then the language schools arrived. The noise was unbelievable and you
couldn't get any food or drink because of the queues of unruly
youngsters. It became impossible to work in my office. When I complained
about this and suggested ways that some order and quiet could be
maintained, I was told by a woman in conference administration that,
without the income she brought in, I wouldn't have a job.

I did a one year course to qualify to teach adult immigrants instead
of children. I never wanted to teach children again :).Adults were so
happy to be there and in the class. And then going on to basic skills
and dyslexia support those students were very grateful too.

[BrritSki]

Post by LFS

Post by Penny
in the dust...

Post by Vicky
Some of my earliest English Language teaching was groups of
French kids sent over for 2 or 3 week courses. They thought it was a
holiday. Mid-teens were the worst. They ignored me and carried on
courting in the classroom.

Quite the worst groups of visiting schoolchildren in Canterbury were the
French. Loud, rude and oblivious to everyone else, I reckon the Japanese
tourists were the most horrified by them.

The Italians are very noisy but very apologetic when you point that out
to them.

A couple of years ago on Isola del Giglio (where the cruise liner sank)
we had spent a lovely morning on a small beach that you could only reach
with a boat taxi or a 20 minute walk.

After our excellent picnic lunch a group of 10-30 yo lads arrived and
started making a lot of noise, playing football etc. After a couple of
glares they realised they were making a lot of noise and calmed down a
bit, and even offered to get us a coffee from the bar.

That evening we went to the restaurant we had reserved and guess who was
running it, serving, ccoking etc ? We had a good laugh about it and the
food was excellent... :)

[Chris McMillan]

Post by BrritSki

Post by LFS

Post by Penny
in the dust...

Post by Vicky
Some of my earliest English Language teaching was groups of
French kids sent over for 2 or 3 week courses. They thought it was a
holiday. Mid-teens were the worst. They ignored me and carried on
courting in the classroom.

Quite the worst groups of visiting schoolchildren in Canterbury were the
French. Loud, rude and oblivious to everyone else, I reckon the Japanese
tourists were the most horrified by them.

The Italians are very noisy but very apologetic when you point that out
to them.

A couple of years ago on Isola del Giglio (where the cruise liner sank)
we had spent a lovely morning on a small beach that you could only reach
with a boat taxi or a 20 minute walk.
After our excellent picnic lunch a group of 10-30 yo lads arrived and
started making a lot of noise, playing football etc. After a couple of
glares they realised they were making a lot of noise and calmed down a
bit, and even offered to get us a coffee from the bar.
That evening we went to the restaurant we had reserved and guess who was
running it, serving, ccoking etc ? We had a good laugh about it and the
food was excellent... :)

ROTFLMAO

Sincerely Chris

[Chris McMillan]

Post by LFS

Post by Penny
in the dust...

Post by Vicky
Some of my earliest English Language teaching was groups of
French kids sent over for 2 or 3 week courses. They thought it was a
holiday. Mid-teens were the worst. They ignored me and carried on
courting in the classroom.

Quite the worst groups of visiting schoolchildren in Canterbury were the
French. Loud, rude and oblivious to everyone else, I reckon the Japanese
tourists were the most horrified by them.

The Italians are very noisy but very apologetic when you point that out
to them.
The university used to let out the campus over the summer as soon as our
students had left. When I first worked there, it was let to Saga
Holidays which was great because the elderly made no noise, went off on
trips and were pleasant to chat to when you met them around the place.
There was also a regular brass band workshop led by Harry Mortimer. If
you liked brass band music, as I do, this was brilliant. I used to look
forward to working in my office over the summer, a very productive time.
Then the language schools arrived. The noise was unbelievable and you
couldn't get any food or drink because of the queues of unruly
youngsters. It became impossible to work in my office. When I complained
about this and suggested ways that some order and quiet could be
maintained, I was told by a woman in conference administration that,
without the income she brought in, I wouldn't have a job.

Can believe that Laura - Italians used to regularly trash our campus
hostels - which had international students still beavering away on theses
or on short courses not tied to academic terms, often much older than our
UK students, they must've been as horrified at the noise and behaviour as
us locals. At least our house didn't back onto the campus but a number of
our friends did.

Sincerely Chris

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Penny
in the dust...

Post by Vicky
Some of my earliest English Language teaching was groups of
French kids sent over for 2 or 3 week courses. They thought it was a
holiday. Mid-teens were the worst. They ignored me and carried on
courting in the classroom.

Quite the worst groups of visiting schoolchildren in Canterbury were the
French. Loud, rude and oblivious to everyone else, I reckon the Japanese
tourists were the most horrified by them.

Whereas long term Japanese students behave aa if they've lost all their
Japan-ness. We used to have a Japanese university here. Definitely an eye
opener!

Sincerely Chris

[Robin Stevens]

Post by LFS
Try living in a place like Oxford that is flooded every summer
with language school students whose parents must be having a welcome
respite.

There was a flock of them outside my office this morning. I'm sure it's
getting earlier each year.

[John Ashby]

On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:51:54 +0000 (UTC), Robin Stevens

Post by Robin Stevens

Post by LFS
Try living in a place like Oxford that is flooded every summer
with language school students whose parents must be having a

welcome

Post by Robin Stevens

Post by LFS
respite.

There was a flock of them outside my office this morning. I'm sure it's
getting earlier each year.

More evidence of global warming?

john

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Robin Stevens

Post by LFS
Try living in a place like Oxford that is flooded every summer
with language school students whose parents must be having a welcome
respite.

There was a flock of them outside my office this morning. I'm sure it's
getting earlier each year.

Now the campus McT worked on has been demolished for a housing estate, we
don't have these students on our local bus service. They'll no doubt be
housed on or near main campus in one of the older living quarters so we
only find them in town. Bit early for us yet but I was in Oxford on 30th
May with friends and we were rudely accosted by a very drunk student who
told us he'd just finished his exams. His very sober friends were very
embarrassed, we had a blind chap using a white cane: he's from China but
having studied at a UK uni himself will be familiar enough with such
behaviour, as were all the Chinese with us - but as English and Chinese was
being spoken among us (me and one other not being Mandarin speakers), I
suspect they thought we were tourists. In fact it was two Chinese out of
three tourist, one Oxford native and a couple of us who are nearly locals!
Drunks and the cobbles aren't recommended, nearly lost my footing trying to
avoid his flailing arms and stinkiness.

Sincerely Chris

[Penny]

On 13 Jun 2017 17:31:12 GMT, Sally Thompson

Post by Sally Thompson
I remember one of my son's teachers saying to me that all teenagers should
be sent a long way away at age 13 and returned at 21. I agreed with him
then and now!

Gosh!
My parents tried that with my bother. It did keep him out of the way during
term time for a few years which made my life easier but then he took
against 'a long way away' and ran away from it... twice (he didn't run home
the second time but they tracked him down). I think he was slightly worse
when he came back :(

My father suggested I send d#1 away (soon after her father died) which
struck me as a particularly stupid idea so I don't think I even mentioned
it to her at the time. She was absolutely horrified that he'd even
suggested it when she did find out.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Penny
On 13 Jun 2017 17:31:12 GMT, Sally Thompson

Post by Sally Thompson
I remember one of my son's teachers saying to me that all teenagers should
be sent a long way away at age 13 and returned at 21. I agreed with him
then and now!

"This child should go far." And the prodigy in "Balham, ...".

Post by Penny
Gosh!
My parents tried that with my bother. It did keep him out of the way during
term time for a few years which made my life easier but then he took
against 'a long way away' and ran away from it... twice (he didn't run home
the second time but they tracked him down). I think he was slightly worse
when he came back :(
My father suggested I send d#1 away (soon after her father died) which
struck me as a particularly stupid idea so I don't think I even mentioned
it to her at the time. She was absolutely horrified that he'd even
suggested it when she did find out.

Oh dear - not this subject again. Go and write 100 times "not all
boarding schools are bad". [Do not use cut and paste (-:]

[Penny]

On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 00:21:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oh dear - not this subject again. Go and write 100 times "not all
boarding schools are bad". [Do not use cut and paste (-:]

I'm sure you're right, brother #1 survived the same school fine.

It (or somewhere like it, they do take girls now) most certainly would not
have been the right place for d#1 at that point in her life - even if I'd
thought I could afford it.

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Penny
On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 00:21:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oh dear - not this subject again. Go and write 100 times "not all
boarding schools are bad". [Do not use cut and paste (-:]

I'm sure you're right, brother #1 survived the same school fine.
It (or somewhere like it, they do take girls now) most certainly would not
have been the right place for d#1 at that point in her life - even if I'd
thought I could afford it.

Had I not already been away when my mum died, I would've been a not very
well adjusted young child being then sent away. Being more used to not
being at home, it was easier not being at home. I never thought of where
home was -even though Reading screamed from the finger boards at every
cross roads we walked past, being the nearest large town -18 miles away.

Sincerely Chris

[Vicky]

On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 00:21:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Penny
On 13 Jun 2017 17:31:12 GMT, Sally Thompson

Post by Sally Thompson
I remember one of my son's teachers saying to me that all teenagers should
be sent a long way away at age 13 and returned at 21. I agreed with him
then and now!

"This child should go far." And the prodigy in "Balham, ...".

Post by Penny
Gosh!
My parents tried that with my bother. It did keep him out of the way during
term time for a few years which made my life easier but then he took
against 'a long way away' and ran away from it... twice (he didn't run home
the second time but they tracked him down). I think he was slightly worse
when he came back :(
My father suggested I send d#1 away (soon after her father died) which
struck me as a particularly stupid idea so I don't think I even mentioned
it to her at the time. She was absolutely horrified that he'd even
suggested it when she did find out.

Oh dear - not this subject again. Go and write 100 times "not all
boarding schools are bad". [Do not use cut and paste (-:]

Well, they used boarding school as a threat for bad behaviour when I
was a child, but I'd read Chalet School books and Enid Blyton and
wasn't sure it was bad.

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oh dear - not this subject again. Go and write 100 times "not all
boarding schools are bad". [Do not use cut and paste (-:]

From which 2 things arise:

Firstly that my daughter was mad keen to go to boarding school. I was
very afraid that she had read too many "school stories" and might find
it not at all as much fun as she expected. She didn't. She was very happy.

Secondly I was once given n lines for some misdemeanour at school. Some
time after I started writing the teacher in charge of Detention that day
asked to see them. I'd written "I" n times, "must" n-a few times, and
the whole line about half-a dozen times. Teacher was not amused.

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

The first thing Elizabeth should do, and I realise that this might seem
a dangerously radical idea to any of the Archers, is to ask Freddie what
he wants to do. In both the short and long term.

Assuming he want to take on responsibility for LL (or, at least, is
willing to), I'm sure there will be several vocational qualifications
which would be relevant for him. Estate Management, or Hospitality and
Catering perhaps. Alternatively, something more specialist, such as the
fields you suggested.

[krw]

Estate Management, or Hospitality and Catering perhaps. Alternatively,
something more specialist, such as the fields you suggested.

I suspect that GCSE Maths at grade C will be required for such courses.

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by krw

Estate Management, or Hospitality and Catering perhaps.
Alternatively, something more specialist, such as the fields you
suggested.

I suspect that GCSE Maths at grade C will be required for such courses.

For some, yes, it will be but I'm pretty sure there will be other, more
basic, courses for people who haven't achieved that dizzy height and
those may well be accepted as an alternative route into higher level
courses.

[Chris McMillan]

Post by krw

Estate Management, or Hospitality and Catering perhaps. Alternatively,
something more specialist, such as the fields you suggested.

I suspect that GCSE Maths at grade C will be required for such courses.

Yes. I don't have a maths at GCSE. I would still be unemployable!

Sincerely Chris

[Mike]

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by krw

Estate Management, or Hospitality and Catering perhaps. Alternatively,
something more specialist, such as the fields you suggested.

I suspect that GCSE Maths at grade C will be required for such courses.

Yes. I don't have a maths at GCSE. I would still be unemployable!
Sincerely Chris

No, Freddy will be studying free fall diving...

[LFS]

Post by krw

Estate Management, or Hospitality and Catering perhaps.
Alternatively, something more specialist, such as the fields you
suggested.

I suspect that GCSE Maths at grade C will be required for such courses.

Not always.

Son refused to resit his GCSE Maths: he insisted that it was unnecessary
for a film director. We resigned ourselves to him not going to
university, especially as, when it came to applying, his form tutor told
me that his predicted grades were the worst he had ever seen, although
they were coupled with the best personal statement he had ever seen.

To our considerable surprise, Son achieved three respectable A level
grades and a place to study Film, TV and Photography at his first choice
of university via Clearing. And GCSE Maths was never mentioned...

[Marjorie]

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

The first thing Elizabeth should do, and I realise that this might seem
a dangerously radical idea to any of the Archers, is to ask Freddie what
he wants to do. In both the short and long term.
Assuming he want to take on responsibility for LL (or, at least, is
willing to), I'm sure there will be several vocational qualifications
which would be relevant for him. Estate Management, or Hospitality and
Catering perhaps. Alternatively, something more specialist, such as the
fields you suggested.

He's supposed to be halfway through his A-levels but I don't think we
ever heard what these are. He may already be studying some of the above
- he can't be doing anything very academic.

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by Marjorie

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

The first thing Elizabeth should do, and I realise that this might
seem a dangerously radical idea to any of the Archers, is to ask
Freddie what he wants to do. In both the short and long term.
Assuming he want to take on responsibility for LL (or, at least, is
willing to), I'm sure there will be several vocational qualifications
which would be relevant for him. Estate Management, or Hospitality
and Catering perhaps. Alternatively, something more specialist, such
as the fields you suggested.

He's supposed to be halfway through his A-levels but I don't think we
ever heard what these are. He may already be studying some of the above
- he can't be doing anything very academic.

I think we did hear which A-levels he was doing, when he first signed up
for college, and they were standard, academic ones. I remember shouting
at the radio (and, in all probability, complaining to umra) that he'd be
far better off taking a vocational option.

[Vicky]

On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 15:35:26 +0100, Marjorie

Post by Marjorie

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

The first thing Elizabeth should do, and I realise that this might seem
a dangerously radical idea to any of the Archers, is to ask Freddie what
he wants to do. In both the short and long term.
Assuming he want to take on responsibility for LL (or, at least, is
willing to), I'm sure there will be several vocational qualifications
which would be relevant for him. Estate Management, or Hospitality and
Catering perhaps. Alternatively, something more specialist, such as the
fields you suggested.

He's supposed to be halfway through his A-levels but I don't think we
ever heard what these are. He may already be studying some of the above
- he can't be doing anything very academic.

Well, some of us who went to university and did academic courses might
still have struggled to get the maths O level. :). I know I've said it
at least once before here, I got it 4th time. I'm pretty sure
disliking the teacher and not trying hard because it didn't seem
important earlier on and not being natuarally good at it can result in
a fail.

I know Freddie did like his tutor for the extra help, but perhaps it
wasn't soon enough, and he got pressure from Lizzie and Lily. I wasn't
pressured at all. My mother didn't really know anything about the
system and certainly nobody expected me to go to university.

[Vicky]

On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 09:07:15 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

The first thing Elizabeth should do, and I realise that this might seem
a dangerously radical idea to any of the Archers, is to ask Freddie what
he wants to do. In both the short and long term.
Assuming he want to take on responsibility for LL (or, at least, is
willing to), I'm sure there will be several vocational qualifications
which would be relevant for him. Estate Management, or Hospitality and
Catering perhaps. Alternatively, something more specialist, such as the
fields you suggested.

The business brain is more likely to be Lily, isn't it? Maybe they can
run it together like Helen and Tom and Freddie can do the artisan
stuff and Lily the office stuff.

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by Vicky
On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 09:07:15 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

The first thing Elizabeth should do, and I realise that this might seem
a dangerously radical idea to any of the Archers, is to ask Freddie what
he wants to do. In both the short and long term.
Assuming he want to take on responsibility for LL (or, at least, is
willing to), I'm sure there will be several vocational qualifications
which would be relevant for him. Estate Management, or Hospitality and
Catering perhaps. Alternatively, something more specialist, such as the
fields you suggested.

The business brain is more likely to be Lily, isn't it? Maybe they can
run it together like Helen and Tom and Freddie can do the artisan
stuff and Lily the office stuff.

ISTR that we were told that it had been entailed upon Freddie, so it has
been left to him, not to Lily. She may well end up running it with /
for her brother but it will actually belong to him. Lily may well move
away and not have any more to do with it than Camilla does/did.

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by Vicky
The business brain is more likely to be Lily, isn't it? Maybe they can
run it together like Helen and Tom and Freddie can do the artisan
stuff and Lily the office stuff.

Somewhere I saw a current definition of artisan - a middle class person
doing something that used to be done by the working class.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Vicky
The business brain is more likely to be Lily, isn't it? Maybe they can
run it together like Helen and Tom and Freddie can do the artisan
stuff and Lily the office stuff.

Somewhere I saw a current definition of artisan - a middle class person
doing something that used to be done by the working class.

But making more fuss about the actual doing of it (-:.

[Nick Odell]

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

The first thing Elizabeth should do, and I realise that this might seem
a dangerously radical idea to any of the Archers, is to ask Freddie what
he wants to do. In both the short and long term.

That presumes that he knows what he wants to do. I've just spent a
lifetime as a musical instrument maker because I was never able to
decide what proper job I wanted to do.

Nick

[Btms]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

The first thing Elizabeth should do, and I realise that this might seem
a dangerously radical idea to any of the Archers, is to ask Freddie what
he wants to do. In both the short and long term.

That presumes that he knows what he wants to do. I've just spent a
lifetime as a musical instrument maker because I was never able to
decide what proper job I wanted to do.
Nick

Good point. One of my sons knew from childhood what he wanted to do. Did
it but found the reality not to his liking. The other never knew what he
wanted to do. Went to uni., and has progressed as life has taken him.
Enjoys what he does and is listed as one of global top 300 in his field.
Both are differently happy but the one who knew what he wanted has success
but not much job satisfaction. Has his own Company, which has won many
awards but .....

[Mike]

Post by Btms

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

The first thing Elizabeth should do, and I realise that this might seem
a dangerously radical idea to any of the Archers, is to ask Freddie what
he wants to do. In both the short and long term.

That presumes that he knows what he wants to do. I've just spent a
lifetime as a musical instrument maker because I was never able to
decide what proper job I wanted to do.
Nick

Good point. One of my sons knew from childhood what he wanted to do. Did
it but found the reality not to his liking. The other never knew what he
wanted to do. Went to uni., and has progressed as life has taken him.
Enjoys what he does and is listed as one of global top 300 in his field.
Both are differently happy but the one who knew what he wanted has success
but not much job satisfaction. Has his own Company, which has won many
awards but .....

One of my hobbies at the age of nine was tape recording sound effects and
plays etc. Another interest from the age of three or so was cooking... The
audio won through 'cos I reasoned that the life of a chef was hot and
poorly paid.

[Penny]

On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 08:59:31 +0100, Nick Odell

Post by Nick Odell
I've just spent a
lifetime as a musical instrument maker because I was never able to
decide what proper job I wanted to do.

:)
My MiL often said to the husgod that she didn't know why he didn't get a
proper job like everyone else. Since he had been running his own business
and employing many of the family for years, this seemed a little harsh.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

The first thing Elizabeth should do, and I realise that this might
seem a dangerously radical idea to any of the Archers, is to ask
Freddie what he wants to do. In both the short and long term.

That presumes that he knows what he wants to do. I've just spent a
lifetime as a musical instrument maker because I was never able to
decide what proper job I wanted to do.

Indeed.
I spent quite some time trying to decide what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Happily, I haven't yet had to face that particular problem.

[Fenny]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Indeed.
I spent quite some time trying to decide what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Happily, I haven't yet had to face that particular problem.

The career I wanted when I was 12 is now available to me. Except I'm
too old for it :-(

[Penny]

On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:12:39 +0100, Fenny <***@removethis.onetel.net>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Fenny

Post by Sam Plusnet
Indeed.
I spent quite some time trying to decide what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Happily, I haven't yet had to face that particular problem.

The career I wanted when I was 12 is now available to me. Except I'm
too old for it :-(

An old friend of Ray's was showing us around his extremely cluttered house,
garage and shed one day (he wasn't actually living there at the time) and
said, "I used to want all the tools to do all the jobs, now I've got them
but I don't want to do the jobs any more."
I fear I may be reaching this stage... :(

[Fenny]

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Fenny

Post by Sam Plusnet
Indeed.
I spent quite some time trying to decide what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Happily, I haven't yet had to face that particular problem.

The career I wanted when I was 12 is now available to me. Except I'm
too old for it :-(

An old friend of Ray's was showing us around his extremely cluttered house,
garage and shed one day (he wasn't actually living there at the time) and
said, "I used to want all the tools to do all the jobs, now I've got them
but I don't want to do the jobs any more."
I fear I may be reaching this stage... :(

Sounds about right. Although having the tools means I could do the
jobs if I found the inclination.

[Btms]

Post by Fenny

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Fenny

Post by Sam Plusnet
Indeed.
I spent quite some time trying to decide what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Happily, I haven't yet had to face that particular problem.

The career I wanted when I was 12 is now available to me. Except I'm
too old for it :-(

An old friend of Ray's was showing us around his extremely cluttered house,
garage and shed one day (he wasn't actually living there at the time) and
said, "I used to want all the tools to do all the jobs, now I've got them
but I don't want to do the jobs any more."
I fear I may be reaching this stage... :(

Sounds about right. Although having the tools means I could do the
jobs if I found the inclination.

My bil seems obsessed with buying tools; especially if they are a bargain.
He doesn't use any of them much. The cement mixer is used used to to mix
compost; though he doesn't do much compost making. This is all according
to his wife. They have a huge garage but it is full to the gunnels. I
find it all a bit disturbing.

[BrritSki]

Post by Fenny

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Fenny

Post by Sam Plusnet
Indeed.
I spent quite some time trying to decide what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Happily, I haven't yet had to face that particular problem.

The career I wanted when I was 12 is now available to me. Except I'm
too old for it :-(

An old friend of Ray's was showing us around his extremely cluttered house,
garage and shed one day (he wasn't actually living there at the time) and
said, "I used to want all the tools to do all the jobs, now I've got them
but I don't want to do the jobs any more."
I fear I may be reaching this stage... :(

Sounds about right. Although having the tools means I could do the
jobs if I found the inclination.

Have you got one of these then ?

<Loading Image...>

[Marjorie]

Post by Fenny

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Fenny

Post by Sam Plusnet
Indeed.
I spent quite some time trying to decide what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Happily, I haven't yet had to face that particular problem.

The career I wanted when I was 12 is now available to me. Except I'm
too old for it :-(

An old friend of Ray's was showing us around his extremely cluttered house,
garage and shed one day (he wasn't actually living there at the time) and
said, "I used to want all the tools to do all the jobs, now I've got them
but I don't want to do the jobs any more."
I fear I may be reaching this stage... :(

Sounds about right. Although having the tools means I could do the
jobs if I found the inclination.

Since my husband died, I have had to take stock of the tools etc and
consider which I might possibly use, or have others use on my behalf,
and which to get rid of. I only wish my best beloved had done a similar
audit, and not left me with drawers containing thousands of screws and
nails in dozens of packets, numerous paintbrushes, mostly unusable, and
a total (so far) of 31 screwdrivers.

I wouldn't mind so much if it weren't for the spiders ....

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Marjorie
Since my husband died, I have had to take stock of the tools etc and
consider which I might possibly use, or have others use on my behalf,
and which to get rid of. I only wish my best beloved had done a similar
audit, and not left me with drawers containing thousands of screws and
nails in dozens of packets, numerous paintbrushes, mostly unusable, and
a total (so far) of 31 screwdrivers.

My sister has just had to do the same. In her case "numerous
paintbrushes" was a box containing about 30 brand new ones of various
sizes: her husgod could never resist what he saw as a bargain. The fact
that neither of them ever did any painting was not, apparently, taken
into consideration.

Sis picked out a few things she knew she might use then my daughter
brought her broil down - he knows about these things. He advised what
might as well be chucked (masses of stuff) and took away what was worth
salvaging.

[Sally Thompson]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Marjorie
Since my husband died, I have had to take stock of the tools etc and
consider which I might possibly use, or have others use on my behalf,
and which to get rid of. I only wish my best beloved had done a similar
audit, and not left me with drawers containing thousands of screws and
nails in dozens of packets, numerous paintbrushes, mostly unusable, and
a total (so far) of 31 screwdrivers.

My sister has just had to do the same. In her case "numerous
paintbrushes" was a box containing about 30 brand new ones of various
sizes: her husgod could never resist what he saw as a bargain. The fact
that neither of them ever did any painting was not, apparently, taken
into consideration.
Sis picked out a few things she knew she might use then my daughter
brought her broil down - he knows about these things. He advised what
might as well be chucked (masses of stuff) and took away what was worth
salvaging.

I try to put stuff on Freegle. You'd be surprised what people want.

[Sid Nuncius]

Post by Sally Thompson
I try to put stuff on Freegle. You'd be surprised what people want.

<languid wave>

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Sid Nuncius

Post by Sally Thompson
I try to put stuff on Freegle. You'd be surprised what people want.

<languid wave>

My sister and I use Freecycle quite a lot, but it is very off-putting
when people "claim" something and then fail to turn up. This has
happened to us both several times. Most recently, I offered a pine
dressing table which dozens of people asked for but the first THREE
people I offered it to failed to collect it. I was getting desparate
(needing it gone to make room for the new stuff) when I mentioned it in
our local charity shop and the assistant offered to come and open the
shop specially on a Bank Holiday because that was the only I had
transport available to take it to the shop.

[Fenny]

On 23 Jun 2017 14:12:31 GMT, Sally Thompson

Post by Sally Thompson
I try to put stuff on Freegle. You'd be surprised what people want.

I'm constantly surprised at what people post wanted ads for on
freegle.

[Anne B]

Post by Fenny
On 23 Jun 2017 14:12:31 GMT, Sally Thompson

Post by Sally Thompson
I try to put stuff on Freegle. You'd be surprised what people want.

I'm constantly surprised at what people post wanted ads for on
freegle.

YANAOU, or in my case, what people asked for on FreeCycle. Someone asked
for a car with a MOT certificate, and someone else asked for a 3-piece
suite, leather, not scuffed or damaged.

Anne B

[Penny]

On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 15:04:12 +0100, Anne B <***@btinternet.com>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Anne B

Post by Fenny
On 23 Jun 2017 14:12:31 GMT, Sally Thompson

Post by Sally Thompson
I try to put stuff on Freegle. You'd be surprised what people want.

I'm constantly surprised at what people post wanted ads for on
freegle.

YANAOU, or in my case, what people asked for on FreeCycle. Someone asked
for a car with a MOT certificate, and someone else asked for a 3-piece
suite, leather, not scuffed or damaged.

That reminds me of the Medway version where 'I *need* a white leather sofa'
seemed to be a common 'request', along with huge flat screen TV, of course.

[Marjorie]

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Marjorie
Since my husband died, I have had to take stock of the tools etc and
consider which I might possibly use, or have others use on my behalf,
and which to get rid of. I only wish my best beloved had done a similar
audit, and not left me with drawers containing thousands of screws and
nails in dozens of packets, numerous paintbrushes, mostly unusable, and
a total (so far) of 31 screwdrivers.

My sister has just had to do the same. In her case "numerous
paintbrushes" was a box containing about 30 brand new ones of various
sizes: her husgod could never resist what he saw as a bargain. The fact
that neither of them ever did any painting was not, apparently, taken
into consideration.
Sis picked out a few things she knew she might use then my daughter
brought her broil down - he knows about these things. He advised what
might as well be chucked (masses of stuff) and took away what was worth
salvaging.

I try to put stuff on Freegle. You'd be surprised what people want.

I may resort to that at some stage. I have managed to give some items to
people who may use them - I have given several things to tradesmen doing
jobs for me, as a sort of bonus in kind. It becomes more difficult when
I don't know what the item is, or what's happend to its charging unit,
or whether it's complete or in working order.

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Marjorie

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Marjorie
Since my husband died, I have had to take stock of the tools etc and
consider which I might possibly use, or have others use on my behalf,
and which to get rid of. I only wish my best beloved had done a similar
audit, and not left me with drawers containing thousands of screws and
nails in dozens of packets, numerous paintbrushes, mostly unusable, and
a total (so far) of 31 screwdrivers.

My sister has just had to do the same. In her case "numerous
paintbrushes" was a box containing about 30 brand new ones of various
sizes: her husgod could never resist what he saw as a bargain. The fact
that neither of them ever did any painting was not, apparently, taken
into consideration.
Sis picked out a few things she knew she might use then my daughter
brought her broil down - he knows about these things. He advised what
might as well be chucked (masses of stuff) and took away what was worth
salvaging.

I try to put stuff on Freegle. You'd be surprised what people want.

I may resort to that at some stage. I have managed to give some items to
people who may use them - I have given several things to tradesmen doing
jobs for me, as a sort of bonus in kind. It becomes more difficult when
I don't know what the item is, or what's happend to its charging unit,
or whether it's complete or in working order.

If we were nearer, I'd gladly lend you McT .....

Sincerely McT - Mrs

[Penny]

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 13:29:16 +0100, Marjorie

Post by Marjorie
Since my husband died, I have had to take stock of the tools etc and
consider which I might possibly use, or have others use on my behalf,
and which to get rid of. I only wish my best beloved had done a similar
audit, and not left me with drawers containing thousands of screws and
nails in dozens of packets, numerous paintbrushes, mostly unusable, and
a total (so far) of 31 screwdrivers.

I happily kept (and used) most of the husgod's tools, even though I'd
brought some of my own into the mix. So we had in-the-house tools and
in-the-shed tools which worked quite well although inevitably they
sometimes got themselves into the wrong place...

When Ray and I got together the duplication became triplication and I still
have most of them, along with a whole load of other small engineering
equipment I don't actually know how to use, including several tiny lathes
mostly acquired cheaply from ebay sellers who had failed to describe them
properly. I did ask Ray several times to catalogue them (directly from
copies of the sales pages, with pics) and describe them properly - he never
did.

I've never counted the screwdrivers but I do wonder why I can never find
the right type for the job in hand when I want to, even among those with
changeable bits.

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Penny
On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 13:29:16 +0100, Marjorie

Post by Marjorie
Since my husband died, I have had to take stock of the tools etc and
consider which I might possibly use, or have others use on my behalf,
and which to get rid of. I only wish my best beloved had done a similar
audit, and not left me with drawers containing thousands of screws and
nails in dozens of packets, numerous paintbrushes, mostly unusable, and
a total (so far) of 31 screwdrivers.

I happily kept (and used) most of the husgod's tools, even though I'd
brought some of my own into the mix. So we had in-the-house tools and
in-the-shed tools which worked quite well although inevitably they
sometimes got themselves into the wrong place...
When Ray and I got together the duplication became triplication and I still
have most of them, along with a whole load of other small engineering
equipment I don't actually know how to use, including several tiny lathes
mostly acquired cheaply from ebay sellers who had failed to describe them
properly. I did ask Ray several times to catalogue them (directly from
copies of the sales pages, with pics) and describe them properly - he never
did.
I've never counted the screwdrivers but I do wonder why I can never find
the right type for the job in hand when I want to, even among those with
changeable bits.

I think I can introduce you to someone I know well, Penny .......

Sincerely Chris

[krw]

Post by Penny
"I used to want all the tools to do all the jobs, now I've got them
but I don't want to do the jobs any more."
I fear I may be reaching this stage...

YANAOU. I have a similar problem.

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
How do you solve a problem like Freddie?
Buy him an intensive driving course, gorilla suit and an ice cream van -
once he's passed his test of course.
Alternatively, if he shows any interest in the vineyard, falconry,
something else which could fit in well with the family business, get him
some instruction about it.
He'll be fine.

The first thing Elizabeth should do, and I realise that this might
seem a dangerously radical idea to any of the Archers, is to ask
Freddie what he wants to do. In both the short and long term.

That presumes that he knows what he wants to do. I've just spent a
lifetime as a musical instrument maker because I was never able to
decide what proper job I wanted to do.

No, not really. If he doesn't have any idea what he wants to do, even
in the short term, asking him about it may help him to work out what it
is that he actually wants[1], rather than just kicking back at whatever
he's told to do. He may, also, be more willing to accept, and to work
at, the difficult bits, if he can see that it's relevant to something he
wants to do.


[1] again, not necessarily in the long term and he may well change his
mind, multiple times, over the years.

[Penny]

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:56:28 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Nick Odell
That presumes that he knows what he wants to do. I've just spent a
lifetime as a musical instrument maker because I was never able to
decide what proper job I wanted to do.

No, not really. If he doesn't have any idea what he wants to do, even
in the short term, asking him about it may help him to work out what it
is that he actually wants[1], rather than just kicking back at whatever
he's told to do. He may, also, be more willing to accept, and to work
at, the difficult bits, if he can see that it's relevant to something he
wants to do.
[1] again, not necessarily in the long term and he may well change his
mind, multiple times, over the years.

I had no idea what I wanted to do when I left school. I had probably
scuppered most options along the way by knowing (quite fiercely) what I did
*not* want to do. So I can sympathise with Lizzie's attitude (did she do
the same thing, I forget?).

My father paid me to do filing for him for a while which appealed to my
love for organising/cataloguing but was very boring - I brightened it up by
doodling with some nice felt tips I found in one heap of stuff and by
reading patent specs. He tried to get me to photograph some special glass
product he was making but that was beyond my skills and equipment.

I was too young for an art restoration course at the National Gallery he
suggested (a sort of apprenticeship I suppose) but he persuaded me onto a
local technical college graphics course which I enjoyed and completed,
ending up with a studio job for a publisher, followed by other similar
work.

I think it's only in recent years, prompted by something d#1 said, that I
realised I probably actually wanted to be or should have been a librarian.

[Fenny]

Post by Penny

Post by Serena Blanchflower
No, not really. If he doesn't have any idea what he wants to do, even
in the short term, asking him about it may help him to work out what it
is that he actually wants[1], rather than just kicking back at whatever
he's told to do. He may, also, be more willing to accept, and to work
at, the difficult bits, if he can see that it's relevant to something he
wants to do.
[1] again, not necessarily in the long term and he may well change his
mind, multiple times, over the years.

I had no idea what I wanted to do when I left school. I had probably
scuppered most options along the way by knowing (quite fiercely) what I did
*not* want to do. So I can sympathise with Lizzie's attitude (did she do
the same thing, I forget?).

Knowing what you don't want to do is useful - other than "I don't want
to do Maths".

I used to tell the apprentices that if, during their apprenticeship,
they found out that being a whatever they were, or specific elements
of the job, wasn't for them, it had at least been a useful experience
in discovering and crossing it off the list whilst providing them with
paid employment and time to look for something else.

One of my lads wanted to do an Accounting apprenticeship, but we had
no vacancies for him. I got him an Admin apprenticeship at the
college and at the end of his first qualification, he still wanted to
do accounting, so his manager agreed to keep him on and let him do the
AAT course. At the end of the year, he said he didn't want to be an
accountant, but had always wanted to be a musician, but his mum had
insisted he went and did an apprenticeship. So he went back to do a
full time Music course at the college.

I saw him one day near the end of the year and asked how he'd got on
with his music. He said he'd decided now that he didn't want to make
a living in the industry, but actually, he'd quite like to do admin
work, so applied for and got an advanced apprenticeship in Admin and
found a nice job where he still works some years later. Fortunately,
in the intervening years, his sense of responsibility and commitment
developed and he was much better than in the days when he just shoved
things in his drawer if he didn't know what to do with them.

[Penny]

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:55:34 +0100, Fenny <***@removethis.onetel.net>
scrawled in the dust...

I wrote...

Post by Penny
I had no idea what I wanted to do when I left school. I had probably
scuppered most options along the way by knowing (quite fiercely) what I did
*not* want to do. So I can sympathise with Lizzie's attitude (did she do
the same thing, I forget?).

Knowing what you don't want to do is useful - other than "I don't want
to do Maths".

I did want to do maths, I loved maths - pure maths on its own (or maybe
with stats). Not allowed at my school and the woman who droned on about
mechanics and vectors and such never managed to get any of it into my head
(neither did B#2) so I dropped it.

I also wanted to do English language but apparently you can't at A level
(was that just my school?) and I didn't want to do Eng Lit.

[Sally Thompson]

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

I wrote...

Post by Penny
I had no idea what I wanted to do when I left school. I had probably
scuppered most options along the way by knowing (quite fiercely) what I did
*not* want to do. So I can sympathise with Lizzie's attitude (did she do
the same thing, I forget?).

Knowing what you don't want to do is useful - other than "I don't want
to do Maths".

I did want to do maths, I loved maths - pure maths on its own (or maybe
with stats). Not allowed at my school and the woman who droned on about
mechanics and vectors and such never managed to get any of it into my head
(neither did B#2) so I dropped it.
I also wanted to do English language but apparently you can't at A level
(was that just my school?) and I didn't want to do Eng Lit.

Not just your school. In my day I did Eng Lit at A Level but there wasn't
an A Level Eng Language. I wanted to combine it with A Level Maths but you
had to choose Arts OR Sciences and not a combination.

[LFS]

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

I wrote...

Post by Penny
I had no idea what I wanted to do when I left school. I had probably
scuppered most options along the way by knowing (quite fiercely) what I did
*not* want to do. So I can sympathise with Lizzie's attitude (did she do
the same thing, I forget?).

Knowing what you don't want to do is useful - other than "I don't want
to do Maths".

I did want to do maths, I loved maths - pure maths on its own (or maybe
with stats). Not allowed at my school and the woman who droned on about
mechanics and vectors and such never managed to get any of it into my head
(neither did B#2) so I dropped it.
I also wanted to do English language but apparently you can't at A level
(was that just my school?) and I didn't want to do Eng Lit.

Not just your school. In my day I did Eng Lit at A Level but there wasn't
an A Level Eng Language. I wanted to combine it with A Level Maths but you
had to choose Arts OR Sciences and not a combination.

I was finally allowed to do A Level Eng Lit, French and Maths after I
threatened to leave and take my exams at the tech. This was only because
the headmistress didn't want to lose someone likely to get a university
place. She wanted me to take History (her subject) instead of Maths and
apply to Oxford where she said she could guarantee me a place, which
would look good for the school. I told her I found History boring, I
needed Maths to study Economics and I certainly didn't want to go to
university in my home town. She claimed that the entire timetable had to
be reconstructed to allow me to pursue my choice.

Daughter was very good at Maths but was not allowed to take it at A
Level because her GCSE grade wasn't good enough. She was in the first
year to take GCSE, it was still experimental and the approach was very
different to the O Level it replaced. Also, her teacher was very
inadequate. We later found out that he was an undercover detective from
the drugs squad.

[Fenny]

Post by LFS
She claimed that the entire timetable had to
be reconstructed to allow me to pursue my choice.

Ha!

When I was allocated to a place at a different school from Bro, Ma &
Pa went up to a parents' evening, where they met a chap Pa had been in
the TA with years before. He said it was a good school and the Head
was excellent at making things work for students who were "a bit
different". So they made an appointment to go and talk to the Head.

They were very impressed when they found out that the entire 5th year
timetable had been arranged around a lad who played the piano and went
to Manchester once a week to attend lessons at one of the music
schools.

During my school life there were any number of "different" pupils, who
had their timetables arranged to allow them to do their thing. A
couple of lads in my year played football for Man Utd boys' team and
one is now a world class cellist [1]. The one who now presents
Midlands Today was not sufficiently different to need the timetable
adjusting, but he was a damn good Sir Joseph Porter.

[1] Matthew Barley was in the same classes as me for anything that
wasn't a form lesson. I once tied him to his stool in physics by
clipping wires to the back of his blazer and round the leg of the
stool. Not easy without being seen! My mate fancied him, but I
preferred another lad from his form.

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Fenny

Post by LFS
She claimed that the entire timetable had to
be reconstructed to allow me to pursue my choice.

Ha!
When I was allocated to a place at a different school from Bro, Ma &
Pa went up to a parents' evening, where they met a chap Pa had been in
the TA with years before. He said it was a good school and the Head
was excellent at making things work for students who were "a bit
different". So they made an appointment to go and talk to the Head.
They were very impressed when they found out that the entire 5th year
timetable had been arranged around a lad who played the piano and went
to Manchester once a week to attend lessons at one of the music
schools.
During my school life there were any number of "different" pupils, who
had their timetables arranged to allow them to do their thing. A
couple of lads in my year played football for Man Utd boys' team and
one is now a world class cellist [1]. The one who now presents
Midlands Today was not sufficiently different to need the timetable
adjusting, but he was a damn good Sir Joseph Porter.
[1] Matthew Barley was in the same classes as me for anything that
wasn't a form lesson. I once tied him to his stool in physics by
clipping wires to the back of his blazer and round the leg of the
stool. Not easy without being seen! My mate fancied him, but I
preferred another lad from his form.

Worth waving your knicks about for, Fenny.

Sincerely Chris

[Penny]

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 07:53:49 +0100, LFS <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by LFS
She claimed that the entire timetable had to
be reconstructed to allow me to pursue my choice.

I met with a similar problem when I wanted to do both maths and music at O
level. Apparently the head was unaware there was any connection between the
two. Adjustments were made and I passed both but was disappointed to find
one had to write essays for the music exam.

[Sally Thompson]

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by LFS
She claimed that the entire timetable had to
be reconstructed to allow me to pursue my choice.

I met with a similar problem when I wanted to do both maths and music at O
level. Apparently the head was unaware there was any connection between the
two. Adjustments were made and I passed both but was disappointed to find
one had to write essays for the music exam.

I learnt the piano as an adult and thought it would be a marker to do the
exams, but was horrified to find that I had to be able to sing. I have a
good ear - good enough to know that it's impossible for me to sing a
particular note unaccompanied.

[Marjorie]

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by LFS
She claimed that the entire timetable had to
be reconstructed to allow me to pursue my choice.

I met with a similar problem when I wanted to do both maths and music at O
level. Apparently the head was unaware there was any connection between the
two. Adjustments were made and I passed both but was disappointed to find
one had to write essays for the music exam.

Why should there have to be a connection anyway? Shouldn't a well
rounded education be as broad and varied as the pupil's talents?

[Penny]

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 10:57:44 +0100, Marjorie

Post by Marjorie

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by LFS
She claimed that the entire timetable had to
be reconstructed to allow me to pursue my choice.

I met with a similar problem when I wanted to do both maths and music at O
level. Apparently the head was unaware there was any connection between the
two. Adjustments were made and I passed both but was disappointed to find
one had to write essays for the music exam.

Why should there have to be a connection anyway? Shouldn't a well
rounded education be as broad and varied as the pupil's talents?

I have never had to design a school timetable and the thought of doing so,
even in a moderate sized school boggles the mind somewhat. It's not just a
case of juggling staff but suitable rooms, equipment and time-slots. I can
quite understand the use of some basic formulae to make the job easier but
find it hard to believe no former pupil had wanted the specific combination
enough for clashes of maths and music to be avoided.

But then I'd spent my first two years of secondary education in a school
where music (or the head of music) ruled - she was a formidable woman and a
very good teacher. Got me out of compulsory Latin for a start :)

[Fenny]

Post by Penny
I have never had to design a school timetable and the thought of doing so,
even in a moderate sized school boggles the mind somewhat. It's not just a
case of juggling staff but suitable rooms, equipment and time-slots. I can
quite understand the use of some basic formulae to make the job easier but
find it hard to believe no former pupil had wanted the specific combination
enough for clashes of maths and music to be avoided.

That should never have been a banned combination. English and Maths
are compulsory (well, in the last 40 years, anyway) so are available
to every set of timetable groups. Music would fall in one or more of
the option groups and would only be uncombinable with other subjects
in the same groups.

My original set of options was not allowed for several reasons, which
is why I ended up taking my O levels in the 4th year.

[Sid Nuncius]

Post by Fenny

Post by Penny
I have never had to design a school timetable and the thought of doing so,
even in a moderate sized school boggles the mind somewhat. It's not just a
case of juggling staff but suitable rooms, equipment and time-slots. I can
quite understand the use of some basic formulae to make the job easier but
find it hard to believe no former pupil had wanted the specific combination
enough for clashes of maths and music to be avoided.

That should never have been a banned combination. English and Maths
are compulsory (well, in the last 40 years, anyway) so are available
to every set of timetable groups. Music would fall in one or more of
the option groups and would only be uncombinable with other subjects
in the same groups.

I designed the timetable in two different, fairly large comprehensive
schools. It wasn't easy (this was before there were any effective IT
programs) and music was a real headache - although as you say,
"clashing" with maths wasn't the problem. Only a handful of students
wanted to take music at GCSE, but their other choices were very diverse.
This meant that it wasn't viable as a normal "option" in the choice
system and I had to fight very hard to prevent the school dropping it as
a GCSE subject. I managed it by getting those interested to tell me
separately and then juggling things until it was possible for them all
to do it.

It would have been much simpler to let others have their way and allow
music to die as a GCSE subject, but I refused because I think a thriving
music department is a vital part of a decent education and that it ought
to be available as a subject at least until age 16. I suspect that once
I left there was no more music offered there at GCSE, though.

[Penny]

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 19:32:20 +0100, Sid Nuncius <***@tesco.net>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Sid Nuncius
I designed the timetable in two different, fairly large comprehensive
schools. It wasn't easy (this was before there were any effective IT
programs) and music was a real headache - although as you say,
"clashing" with maths wasn't the problem. Only a handful of students
wanted to take music at GCSE, but their other choices were very diverse.
This meant that it wasn't viable as a normal "option" in the choice
system and I had to fight very hard to prevent the school dropping it as
a GCSE subject. I managed it by getting those interested to tell me
separately and then juggling things until it was possible for them all
to do it.
It would have been much simpler to let others have their way and allow
music to die as a GCSE subject, but I refused because I think a thriving
music department is a vital part of a decent education and that it ought
to be available as a subject at least until age 16. I suspect that once
I left there was no more music offered there at GCSE, though.

Thanks, good to get a timetable constructors view. As I said, music (or the
head thereof) was very strong in my first grammar school , less so in the
second.

In D#2's high school not only was the music department strong with many
students taking the performance option at GCSE but the chap who designed
the timetable was head of music. I wonder if things are the same there
since he retired and his deputy gave up school teaching.

[Fenny]

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 19:32:20 +0100, Sid Nuncius

Post by Sid Nuncius
I designed the timetable in two different, fairly large comprehensive
schools. It wasn't easy (this was before there were any effective IT
programs) and music was a real headache - although as you say,
"clashing" with maths wasn't the problem. Only a handful of students
wanted to take music at GCSE, but their other choices were very diverse.
This meant that it wasn't viable as a normal "option" in the choice
system and I had to fight very hard to prevent the school dropping it as
a GCSE subject. I managed it by getting those interested to tell me
separately and then juggling things until it was possible for them all
to do it.
It would have been much simpler to let others have their way and allow
music to die as a GCSE subject, but I refused because I think a thriving
music department is a vital part of a decent education and that it ought
to be available as a subject at least until age 16. I suspect that once
I left there was no more music offered there at GCSE, though

Yes, I can imagine it's much harder these days. The school I went to
had a very strong music department and there were any number of
orchestras, bands, choirs etc catering for different levels of
ability. There was always at least one full class for O level Music
and sometimes more. We had at least a dozen doing A level Music in my
time in the 6th form.

When schools "specialised" in recent years, they were both a Maths and
a Performing Arts school and the new Music rooms were awesome.

The school where SiL works has already announced they are dropping
GCSE Music as there aren't enough takers to warrant a slot on the
timetable. One of my chums is a Music teacher, but mostly teaches
languages these days, even though she has O level French and no quals
in Spanish.

[Sid Nuncius]

Post by Fenny
Yes, I can imagine it's much harder these days. The school I went to
had a very strong music department and there were any number of
orchestras, bands, choirs etc catering for different levels of
ability. There was always at least one full class for O level Music
and sometimes more. We had at least a dozen doing A level Music in my
time in the 6th form.

Wow - impressed! At my school there was a flourishing orchestra and
choir, and a pride in the school's music. But when I did O Level music
there were just six of us with lessons at odd times, including in the
lunch hour.[1] I can't remember whether anyone went on to do A level,
but it would have been a couple of people at most.

[1]Which would have left me with 5 free periods in the 5th year (Year 11
on new money) which was Not Permitted below Sixth Form level. I
therefore ended up attending a year of A level French classes, my class
having taken O level French at the end of the 4th year. *And* I had to
do the boodly homework, including a long essay on Carmen. It did not
endear me to Mérimée, I can tell you, even getting on for half a century
later. And my French is still pretty rubbish.

[Fenny]

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 08:03:31 +0100, Sid Nuncius

Post by Sid Nuncius

Post by Fenny
Yes, I can imagine it's much harder these days. The school I went to
had a very strong music department and there were any number of
orchestras, bands, choirs etc catering for different levels of
ability. There was always at least one full class for O level Music
and sometimes more. We had at least a dozen doing A level Music in my
time in the 6th form.

Wow - impressed! At my school there was a flourishing orchestra and
choir, and a pride in the school's music. But when I did O Level music
there were just six of us with lessons at odd times, including in the
lunch hour.[1] I can't remember whether anyone went on to do A level,
but it would have been a couple of people at most.

A lot of the non-Music staff at our school came to work there because
of the extra-curricula musical activities. It was especially useful
to have several bass and baritone voices available.

The "standing" groups were junior orchestra, senior orchesta and wind
band and junior and senior choirs [1]. On top of that, there was a
swing band, chamber orchestra, dance band (not sure what the
difference from swing band was), and a madrigal group and barbers'
shop group which split into various quartets. We did a G&S every year
and most years at least one of the school play was a musical. We had
Speech Day and Carols in the City Hall every year and assorted
concerts.

When I in the first year, Ma & Pa came to the summer concert because I
was in the orchestra [2] and expected it to be an average evening of
school music. They were more than pleasantly surprised at the range
and standard of performances.

[1] Junior choir was compulsory for anyone who was a chorister.
[2] Junior orchestra was compulsory for anyone who played an
instrument.

[Btms]

Post by Marjorie

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by LFS
She claimed that the entire timetable had to
be reconstructed to allow me to pursue my choice.

I met with a similar problem when I wanted to do both maths and music at O
level. Apparently the head was unaware there was any connection between the
two. Adjustments were made and I passed both but was disappointed to find
one had to write essays for the music exam.

Why should there have to be a connection anyway? Shouldn't a well
rounded education be as broad and varied as the pupil's talents?

True enuff but alarming that a Head doesn't think there is any connection.
More than alarming really.

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by Marjorie

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by LFS
She claimed that the entire timetable had to
be reconstructed to allow me to pursue my choice.

I met with a similar problem when I wanted to do both maths and music at O
level. Apparently the head was unaware there was any connection between the
two. Adjustments were made and I passed both but was disappointed to find
one had to write essays for the music exam.

Why should there have to be a connection anyway? Shouldn't a well
rounded education be as broad and varied as the pupil's talents?

I agree, to a large extent, but I can sympathise with the logistics of
trying to put together a timetable which allows all the required
combinations. The fact that there's a well known link between maths and
music though, should have meant the school would recognise that that was
a likely combination to be wanted.

[Vicky]

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 10:57:44 +0100, Marjorie

Post by Marjorie

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by LFS
She claimed that the entire timetable had to
be reconstructed to allow me to pursue my choice.

I met with a similar problem when I wanted to do both maths and music at O
level. Apparently the head was unaware there was any connection between the
two. Adjustments were made and I passed both but was disappointed to find
one had to write essays for the music exam.

Why should there have to be a connection anyway? Shouldn't a well
rounded education be as broad and varied as the pupil's talents?

#2 daughter did Maths and Stats, Biology and 20th C History for A
level. The school had wanted her to do Physics and Chemistry but she
didn't much like the Physics teacher. Then when she began looking at
university courses some told her she had the wrong A Levels, too wide
a range!

She wanted to do American Studies at Birmingham as you got a year in
the US and had to get BBC but omitted to turn the exam paper over in
the Maths exam and missed one of the questions completely so got a D
in that. She, I and her older sister rang various universities to ask
about places and she got onto an Economicis course at Manchester in
the end, where her sister had already been for a year.

I wanted to do German O Level as I spoke it fluently, which was not
on the timetable for the class I was in, but they let me drop
Geography, on the timetable at that time, to do it. I think that left
a gap in my education.

Careers advice at my school in the 60s was just a teacher with some
leaflets. She suggested I apply to teachers' training colleges as I
was unlikely to get into university, but I definitely didn't want to
teach. I didn't know what I did want to do and just applied to do the
subjects I was doing at A Level, English, French and German, German as
the main one and Spanish too as there was a 4th slot. Then after a
year I changed to a law degree and later, after a spell teaching with
Berlitz, qualified to teach adults :).

[Sally Thompson]

Post by LFS

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

I wrote...

Post by Penny
I had no idea what I wanted to do when I left school. I had probably
scuppered most options along the way by knowing (quite fiercely) what I did
*not* want to do. So I can sympathise with Lizzie's attitude (did she do
the same thing, I forget?).

Knowing what you don't want to do is useful - other than "I don't want
to do Maths".

I did want to do maths, I loved maths - pure maths on its own (or maybe
with stats). Not allowed at my school and the woman who droned on about
mechanics and vectors and such never managed to get any of it into my head
(neither did B#2) so I dropped it.
I also wanted to do English language but apparently you can't at A level
(was that just my school?) and I didn't want to do Eng Lit.

Not just your school. In my day I did Eng Lit at A Level but there wasn't
an A Level Eng Language. I wanted to combine it with A Level Maths but you
had to choose Arts OR Sciences and not a combination.

I was finally allowed to do A Level Eng Lit, French and Maths after I
threatened to leave and take my exams at the tech.

You are me and ICM5Certificates. My choices as well - Eng Lit, French and
Maths but with less success with the school than you as I had to drop the
maths and replace it with something else. I ploughed through half of an OU
degree in Maths at a later date but got rather swamped with small child,
two mortgages and two jobs (because of the two mortgages) and something had
to go so I lapsed.

Post by LFS
Daughter was very good at Maths but was not allowed to take it at A
Level because her GCSE grade wasn't good enough. She was in the first
year to take GCSE, it was still experimental and the approach was very
different to the O Level it replaced. Also, her teacher was very
inadequate. We later found out that he was an undercover detective from
the drugs squad.

!!! The mind boggles.

[Fenny]

On 24 Jun 2017 06:40:28 GMT, Sally Thompson

Post by Sally Thompson
Not just your school. In my day I did Eng Lit at A Level but there wasn't
an A Level Eng Language. I wanted to combine it with A Level Maths but you
had to choose Arts OR Sciences and not a combination.

I did Maths, Physics & French. But I was unusual. Of the Further
Maths class, apart from me, there was one other person who wasn't
doing Physics & Chemistry. He did Art and is now an Architect. In the
single maths classes, there were maybe 3 or 4 who did not-Chemistry,
but they did Biology instead.

I did French because I wanted to learn the language. I suffered
through the literature and only actually enjoyed about 20% of the
books we read (far more than were on the syllabus, because one of our
teachers was too lazy to do anything other than read to us).

[Marjorie]

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

I wrote...

Post by Penny
I had no idea what I wanted to do when I left school. I had probably
scuppered most options along the way by knowing (quite fiercely) what I did
*not* want to do. So I can sympathise with Lizzie's attitude (did she do
the same thing, I forget?).

Knowing what you don't want to do is useful - other than "I don't want
to do Maths".

I did want to do maths, I loved maths - pure maths on its own (or maybe
with stats). Not allowed at my school and the woman who droned on about
mechanics and vectors and such never managed to get any of it into my head
(neither did B#2) so I dropped it.
I also wanted to do English language but apparently you can't at A level
(was that just my school?) and I didn't want to do Eng Lit.

Not just your school. In my day I did Eng Lit at A Level but there wasn't
an A Level Eng Language. I wanted to combine it with A Level Maths but you
had to choose Arts OR Sciences and not a combination.

There wasn't an Eng Language A-level in my day, but there was by the
time my daughter did it (about 1995). It was a very inviting syllabus,
with quite a lot of linguistics in it, and interesting practical
assignments. Unfortunately the teacher was rubbish, but my daughter and
her friend got hold of the syllabus, took themselves to the college
library during the timetabled lessons, and studied it by themselves for
much of the year. They both got A grades. I learned onlyrecently how
they had achieved this!

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Marjorie

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

I wrote...

Post by Penny
I had no idea what I wanted to do when I left school. I had probably
scuppered most options along the way by knowing (quite fiercely) what I did
*not* want to do. So I can sympathise with Lizzie's attitude (did she do
the same thing, I forget?).

Knowing what you don't want to do is useful - other than "I don't want
to do Maths".

I did want to do maths, I loved maths - pure maths on its own (or maybe
with stats). Not allowed at my school and the woman who droned on about
mechanics and vectors and such never managed to get any of it into my head
(neither did B#2) so I dropped it.
I also wanted to do English language but apparently you can't at A level
(was that just my school?) and I didn't want to do Eng Lit.

Not just your school. In my day I did Eng Lit at A Level but there wasn't
an A Level Eng Language. I wanted to combine it with A Level Maths but you
had to choose Arts OR Sciences and not a combination.

There wasn't an Eng Language A-level in my day, but there was by the
time my daughter did it (about 1995). It was a very inviting syllabus,
with quite a lot of linguistics in it, and interesting practical
assignments. Unfortunately the teacher was rubbish, but my daughter and
her friend got hold of the syllabus, took themselves to the college
library during the timetabled lessons, and studied it by themselves for
much of the year. They both got A grades. I learned onlyrecently how
they had achieved this!

Well done them!

Sincerely Chris

[Btms]

And snipped away.....

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by Marjorie
There wasn't an Eng Language A-level in my day, but there was by the
time my daughter did it (about 1995). It was a very inviting syllabus,
with quite a lot of linguistics in it, and interesting practical
assignments. Unfortunately the teacher was rubbish, but my daughter and
her friend got hold of the syllabus, took themselves to the college
library during the timetabled lessons, and studied it by themselves for
much of the year. They both got A grades. I learned onlyrecently how
they had achieved this!

Well done them!

But a shocking comment on the quality of the education.

[Penny]

On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 10:12:45 +0100, Marjorie

Post by Marjorie
There wasn't an Eng Language A-level in my day, but there was by the
time my daughter did it (about 1995). It was a very inviting syllabus,
with quite a lot of linguistics in it, and interesting practical
assignments. Unfortunately the teacher was rubbish, but my daughter and
her friend got hold of the syllabus, took themselves to the college
library during the timetabled lessons, and studied it by themselves for
much of the year. They both got A grades. I learned onlyrecently how
they had achieved this!

Good for them!
D#1 wanted to do psychology but her school didn't offer it so she enrolled
on a course at the local adult education college and did it there as it
fitted in with the school timetable.

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by Penny
I did want to do maths, I loved maths - pure maths on its own (or maybe
with stats). Not allowed at my school and the woman who droned on about
mechanics and vectors and such never managed to get any of it into my head
(neither did B#2) so I dropped it.

I did maths A level and, because I couldn't get on with mechanics, I was
allowed to just do pure maths and stats. Unfortunately, when I got to
university[1] the maths seemed to be entirely based on mechanics :(
This was a major factor in my dropping out at the end of the first year.


[1] theoretically, the course was Computer Science with Maths. In
practice, it was Maths with a little bit of Computer Science.

[Btms]

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
I did want to do maths, I loved maths - pure maths on its own (or maybe
with stats). Not allowed at my school and the woman who droned on about
mechanics and vectors and such never managed to get any of it into my head
(neither did B#2) so I dropped it.

I did maths A level and, because I couldn't get on with mechanics, I was
allowed to just do pure maths and stats. Unfortunately, when I got to
university[1] the maths seemed to be entirely based on mechanics :(
This was a major factor in my dropping out at the end of the first year.
[1] theoretically, the course was Computer Science with Maths. In
practice, it was Maths with a little bit of Computer Science.

But calling it computer science was probably more sexy at the time?

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by Btms

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Penny
I did want to do maths, I loved maths - pure maths on its own (or maybe
with stats). Not allowed at my school and the woman who droned on about
mechanics and vectors and such never managed to get any of it into my head
(neither did B#2) so I dropped it.

I did maths A level and, because I couldn't get on with mechanics, I was
allowed to just do pure maths and stats. Unfortunately, when I got to
university[1] the maths seemed to be entirely based on mechanics :(
This was a major factor in my dropping out at the end of the first year.
[1] theoretically, the course was Computer Science with Maths. In
practice, it was Maths with a little bit of Computer Science.

But calling it computer science was probably more sexy at the time?

Probably. Of course, the balance might have shifted, if I'd survived to
the second and third years.

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Penny
I did want to do maths, I loved maths

Me likewise.

Post by Penny
I also wanted to do English language

Loved it. My best subject at O level.

but apparently you can't at A level

Post by Penny
(was that just my school?)

No. I think it was explained to me that you'd learned all there was to
learn by O level so there wasn't anything left to take it further. I
now find that very hard to believe.

Except that NOW there is apparently no need to learn ANY English grammar.

[Fenny]

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 18:39:21 +0100, Jenny M Benson

Post by Jenny M Benson
Except that NOW there is apparently no need to learn ANY English grammar.

The only grammar I ever learned in English, other than nouns, verbs
and adjectives, was possessive apostrophes. Any other grammar I
learned was from doing Latin or German. Our French teacher either
didn't bother or was so lazy that she didn't care whether we learned
it or not.

[LFS]

Post by Jenny M Benson
Except that NOW there is apparently no need to learn ANY English grammar.

The only English grammar lesson I can remember was about gerunds. The
English teacher I had up to O Level was far more interested in getting
us to read Dylan Thomas and other modern stuff which was not on the
syllabus, for which I shall always be grateful.

I have no idea how I learned to express myself grammatically: it must
have been a combination of learning Latin grammar and reading a lot.

[Penny]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 07:54:02 +0100, LFS <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by LFS
The only English grammar lesson I can remember was about gerunds. The
English teacher I had up to O Level was far more interested in getting
us to read Dylan Thomas and other modern stuff which was not on the
syllabus, for which I shall always be grateful.

I don't remember ever being taught about gerunds. My first year English
teacher would read to us one lesson a week - some great stories, T H
White's 'The Master', Cecil Day-Lewis' 'The Otterbury Incident'. He also
had us reading Animal Farm, unusual choice for 11 year olds I think. We did
parsing at that school - never saw the point of it.

Post by LFS
I have no idea how I learned to express myself grammatically: it must
have been a combination of learning Latin grammar and reading a lot.

I dropped Latin after one term but read all the time. I also had a mother
who would correct me.

[Marjorie]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Penny
I did want to do maths, I loved maths

Me likewise.

Post by Penny
I also wanted to do English language

Loved it. My best subject at O level.
but apparently you can't at A level

Post by Penny
(was that just my school?)

No. I think it was explained to me that you'd learned all there was to
learn by O level so there wasn't anything left to take it further. I
now find that very hard to believe.

It's totally ridiculous. English language continutes to be part of the
study of English in University courses. No one gets to a stage where
they know all there is to know.

Post by Jenny M Benson
Except that NOW there is apparently no need to learn ANY English grammar.

Not true now, although it was for a while. My grandkids learn all sorts
of grammatical terms that were not even explained to me while at school.
It was their parents' generation (e.g. my children, now over 40) who
were denied the opportunity to learn and understand grammar.

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Marjorie

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Penny
I did want to do maths, I loved maths

Me likewise.

Post by Penny
I also wanted to do English language

Loved it. My best subject at O level.
but apparently you can't at A level

Post by Penny
(was that just my school?)

No. I think it was explained to me that you'd learned all there was to
learn by O level so there wasn't anything left to take it further. I
now find that very hard to believe.

It's totally ridiculous. English language continutes to be part of the
study of English in University courses. No one gets to a stage where
they know all there is to know.

Post by Jenny M Benson
Except that NOW there is apparently no need to learn ANY English grammar.

Not true now, although it was for a while. My grandkids learn all sorts
of grammatical terms that were not even explained to me while at school.
It was their parents' generation (e.g. my children, now over 40) who
were denied the opportunity to learn and understand grammar.

And the first generation national curriculum, our Wunderkind. She hasn't a
clue.

Sincerely Chris

[krw]

Post by Fenny
he was much better than in the days when he just shoved
things in his drawer if he didn't know what to do with them.

I thought that was how filing worked?