How to avoid making a pig's ear of Brexit

[MM]

"At least Micheal Gove has a plan - and you’ll be glad to know it is a
cunning one to sell pigs’ ears to China."
http://www.pig-world.co.uk/comment/how-to-avoid-making-a-pigs-ear-of-brexit.html

"Michael Gove claims Brexit will allow Britain to sell more pig’s ears
to China"

"He was speaking at a breakfast event at the Conservative Party
Conference in Manchester, and was asked about farming opportunities
post-Brexit.

"Mr Gove told the fringe meeting hosted by the Countryside Alliance
that one area was the potential for the sale of un-pierced pigs' ears.

"After talking to farmers in Northern Ireland he said: 'Most people
will be aware that there are some cuts of the animal that are hugely
popular with the British consumer, others a little less.

" 'But some of those cuts are hugely popular elsewhere: for example
pigs' ears are a delicacy in China.'

" 'One of the reasons we've not been as successful as we might have
been in selling pigs ears into China is that EU rules dictate pigs
like all livestock have ear tags.'

"He said that was for 'very good reasons' of traceability, but added:
'Outside the EU we can have our own traceability mechanisms.' "
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4594353/michael-gove-claims-brexit-will-allow-britain-to-sell-more-pigs-ears-to-china/

So there you have it, folks! We've not been successful in selling
pigs' ears to China, but after Brexit we'll be making BILLIONS from
the ruddy things. Pigs in a future Britain will only be reared for
their ears.

MM

[g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk]

"At least Micheal Gove has a plan - and you’ll be glad to know it is a
cunning one to sell pigs’ ears to China."
http://www.pig-world.co.uk/comment/how-to-avoid-making-a-pigs-ear-of-brexit.html
"Michael Gove claims Brexit will allow Britain to sell more pig’s ears
to China"
"He was speaking at a breakfast event at the Conservative Party
Conference in Manchester, and was asked about farming opportunities
post-Brexit.
"Mr Gove told the fringe meeting hosted by the Countryside Alliance
that one area was the potential for the sale of un-pierced pigs' ears.
"After talking to farmers in Northern Ireland he said: 'Most people
will be aware that there are some cuts of the animal that are hugely
popular with the British consumer, others a little less.
" 'But some of those cuts are hugely popular elsewhere: for example
pigs' ears are a delicacy in China.'
" 'One of the reasons we've not been as successful as we might have
been in selling pigs ears into China is that EU rules dictate pigs
like all livestock have ear tags.'
'Outside the EU we can have our own traceability mechanisms.' "
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4594353/michael-gove-claims-brexit-will-allow-britain-to-sell-more-pigs-ears-to-china/
So there you have it, folks! We've not been successful in selling
pigs' ears to China, but after Brexit we'll be making BILLIONS from
the ruddy things. Pigs in a future Britain will only be reared for
their ears.

Let's not forget taking back control of our fisheries, probably after a period of compromise. Then eventually, we can again enjoy the fruits of one of the richest fishing grounds on the planet, assuming we can reverse the consequences of the EU's disastrous mismanagement of Britain's fish stocks.

[MM]

Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
Let's not forget taking back control of our fisheries, probably after a period of compromise. Then eventually, we can again enjoy the fruits of one of the richest fishing grounds on the planet, assuming we can reverse the consequences of the EU's disastrous mismanagement of Britain's fish stocks.

Were you offended by the EU's insistence on maintaining fish stocks so
that cod is now once again labelled sustainable by the Marine
Stewardship Council?

Perhaps you'd like ALL rules to be relaxed for British fishermen, so
that they can practise overfishing once more and deplete the
sustainable fish stocks again?
http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/cod-and-haddock-stocks-net-a-better-rating-in-green-guide-1-4579660

MM

[James Harris]

Post by MM

Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
Let's not forget taking back control of our fisheries, probably after a period of compromise. Then eventually, we can again enjoy the fruits of one of the richest fishing grounds on the planet, assuming we can reverse the consequences of the EU's disastrous mismanagement of Britain's fish stocks.

Were you offended by the EU's insistence on maintaining fish stocks so
that cod is now once again labelled sustainable by the Marine
Stewardship Council?
Perhaps you'd like ALL rules to be relaxed for British fishermen, so
that they can practise overfishing once more and deplete the
sustainable fish stocks again?
http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/cod-and-haddock-stocks-net-a-better-rating-in-green-guide-1-4579660

I don't think it will happen immediately but I would like to see EU
boats migrated out of UK waters and the UK engage directly in global
stock management so as to bring fish populations back up.

But showing restraint to restore fish levels would raise the price and
then, MM, wouldn't you complain that Brexit was hitting the cost of fish
and chips...?

[MM]

On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:01:23 +0100, James Harris

Post by James Harris

Post by MM

Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
Let's not forget taking back control of our fisheries, probably after a period of compromise. Then eventually, we can again enjoy the fruits of one of the richest fishing grounds on the planet, assuming we can reverse the consequences of the EU's disastrous mismanagement of Britain's fish stocks.

Were you offended by the EU's insistence on maintaining fish stocks so
that cod is now once again labelled sustainable by the Marine
Stewardship Council?
Perhaps you'd like ALL rules to be relaxed for British fishermen, so
that they can practise overfishing once more and deplete the
sustainable fish stocks again?
http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/cod-and-haddock-stocks-net-a-better-rating-in-green-guide-1-4579660

I don't think it will happen immediately but I would like to see EU
boats migrated out of UK waters and the UK engage directly in global
stock management so as to bring fish populations back up.
But showing restraint to restore fish levels would raise the price and
then, MM, wouldn't you complain that Brexit was hitting the cost of fish
and chips...?

Dunno. I only buy chips from the chippy. The cod (or haddock) I buy
fresh from Morrisons and pan fry it.

Mind you, the chips from the chippy are now £1.80 for a small portion,
which can only be blamed on Brexit for causing those migrant potato
pickers to leave Britain.

OTOH Tesco on their hot food counter have a good portion of chips for
a quid around lunchtimes.

MM

[James Harris]

Post by MM
On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:01:23 +0100, James Harris

Post by James Harris

Post by MM

Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
Let's not forget taking back control of our fisheries, probably after a period of compromise. Then eventually, we can again enjoy the fruits of one of the richest fishing grounds on the planet, assuming we can reverse the consequences of the EU's disastrous mismanagement of Britain's fish stocks.

Were you offended by the EU's insistence on maintaining fish stocks so
that cod is now once again labelled sustainable by the Marine
Stewardship Council?
Perhaps you'd like ALL rules to be relaxed for British fishermen, so
that they can practise overfishing once more and deplete the
sustainable fish stocks again?
http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/cod-and-haddock-stocks-net-a-better-rating-in-green-guide-1-4579660

I don't think it will happen immediately but I would like to see EU
boats migrated out of UK waters and the UK engage directly in global
stock management so as to bring fish populations back up.
But showing restraint to restore fish levels would raise the price and
then, MM, wouldn't you complain that Brexit was hitting the cost of fish
and chips...?

Dunno. I only buy chips from the chippy. The cod (or haddock) I buy
fresh from Morrisons and pan fry it.
Mind you, the chips from the chippy are now £1.80 for a small portion,
which can only be blamed on Brexit for causing those migrant potato
pickers to leave Britain.

I like the idea of "picking" potatoes. From potato trees, presumably. :-)

[MM]

On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 23:10:29 +0100, James Harris

Post by James Harris

Post by MM
On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:01:23 +0100, James Harris

Post by James Harris

Post by MM

Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
Let's not forget taking back control of our fisheries, probably after a period of compromise. Then eventually, we can again enjoy the fruits of one of the richest fishing grounds on the planet, assuming we can reverse the consequences of the EU's disastrous mismanagement of Britain's fish stocks.

Were you offended by the EU's insistence on maintaining fish stocks so
that cod is now once again labelled sustainable by the Marine
Stewardship Council?
Perhaps you'd like ALL rules to be relaxed for British fishermen, so
that they can practise overfishing once more and deplete the
sustainable fish stocks again?
http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/cod-and-haddock-stocks-net-a-better-rating-in-green-guide-1-4579660

I don't think it will happen immediately but I would like to see EU
boats migrated out of UK waters and the UK engage directly in global
stock management so as to bring fish populations back up.
But showing restraint to restore fish levels would raise the price and
then, MM, wouldn't you complain that Brexit was hitting the cost of fish
and chips...?

Dunno. I only buy chips from the chippy. The cod (or haddock) I buy
fresh from Morrisons and pan fry it.
Mind you, the chips from the chippy are now £1.80 for a small portion,
which can only be blamed on Brexit for causing those migrant potato
pickers to leave Britain.

I like the idea of "picking" potatoes. From potato trees, presumably. :-)

Used figuratively.

MM

[m***@btopenworld.com]

Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk

"At least Micheal Gove has a plan - and you’ll be glad to know it is a
cunning one to sell pigs’ ears to China."
http://www.pig-world.co.uk/comment/how-to-avoid-making-a-pigs-ear-of-brexit.html
"Michael Gove claims Brexit will allow Britain to sell more pig’s ears
to China"
"He was speaking at a breakfast event at the Conservative Party
Conference in Manchester, and was asked about farming opportunities
post-Brexit.
"Mr Gove told the fringe meeting hosted by the Countryside Alliance
that one area was the potential for the sale of un-pierced pigs' ears.
"After talking to farmers in Northern Ireland he said: 'Most people
will be aware that there are some cuts of the animal that are hugely
popular with the British consumer, others a little less.
" 'But some of those cuts are hugely popular elsewhere: for example
pigs' ears are a delicacy in China.'
" 'One of the reasons we've not been as successful as we might have
been in selling pigs ears into China is that EU rules dictate pigs
like all livestock have ear tags.'
'Outside the EU we can have our own traceability mechanisms.' "
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4594353/michael-gove-claims-brexit-will-allow-britain-to-sell-more-pigs-ears-to-china/
So there you have it, folks! We've not been successful in selling
pigs' ears to China, but after Brexit we'll be making BILLIONS from
the ruddy things. Pigs in a future Britain will only be reared for
their ears.

Let's not forget taking back control of our fisheries, probably after a period of compromise. Then eventually, we can again enjoy the fruits of one of the richest fishing grounds on the planet, assuming we can reverse the consequences of the EU's disastrous mismanagement of Britain's fish stocks.

I think you will find that EU boats will continue to fish here for quite a long time. The big difference will be that the fishing will not be free. The days are now gone when foreign trawlers plunder our fishing reserves for free. I've seen European trawlers working so close to cliff faces so that you could even hear the drag chains clanking on the sea bottom.

Soon it will be the UK that will issue the licences and the UK government that draws the revenues. Hopefully there will be a moratorium on fishing altogether in spawning grounds and more marine parks will be set up. I'd like to see the devastating trawling disappear altogether with greater emphasis on more environmentally friendly line and net fishing.

There exists in the sea an infinite source of nutritious food that will supply us for ever but only if we are prepared to use our imagination to protect, conserve and look after it.

otherwise, it will be gone inside a generation.

[James Harris]

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk

"At least Micheal Gove has a plan - and you’ll be glad to know it is a
cunning one to sell pigs’ ears to China."
http://www.pig-world.co.uk/comment/how-to-avoid-making-a-pigs-ear-of-brexit.html
"Michael Gove claims Brexit will allow Britain to sell more pig’s ears
to China"
"He was speaking at a breakfast event at the Conservative Party
Conference in Manchester, and was asked about farming opportunities
post-Brexit.
"Mr Gove told the fringe meeting hosted by the Countryside Alliance
that one area was the potential for the sale of un-pierced pigs' ears.
"After talking to farmers in Northern Ireland he said: 'Most people
will be aware that there are some cuts of the animal that are hugely
popular with the British consumer, others a little less.
" 'But some of those cuts are hugely popular elsewhere: for example
pigs' ears are a delicacy in China.'
" 'One of the reasons we've not been as successful as we might have
been in selling pigs ears into China is that EU rules dictate pigs
like all livestock have ear tags.'
'Outside the EU we can have our own traceability mechanisms.' "
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4594353/michael-gove-claims-brexit-will-allow-britain-to-sell-more-pigs-ears-to-china/
So there you have it, folks! We've not been successful in selling
pigs' ears to China, but after Brexit we'll be making BILLIONS from
the ruddy things. Pigs in a future Britain will only be reared for
their ears.

Let's not forget taking back control of our fisheries, probably after a period of compromise. Then eventually, we can again enjoy the fruits of one of the richest fishing grounds on the planet, assuming we can reverse the consequences of the EU's disastrous mismanagement of Britain's fish stocks.

I think you will find that EU boats will continue to fish here for quite a long time. The big difference will be that the fishing will not be free.

Have you seen something which says that they will have to pay?

[m***@btopenworld.com]

Post by James Harris

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk

"At least Micheal Gove has a plan - and you’ll be glad to know it is a
cunning one to sell pigs’ ears to China."
http://www.pig-world.co.uk/comment/how-to-avoid-making-a-pigs-ear-of-brexit.html
"Michael Gove claims Brexit will allow Britain to sell more pig’s ears
to China"
"He was speaking at a breakfast event at the Conservative Party
Conference in Manchester, and was asked about farming opportunities
post-Brexit.
"Mr Gove told the fringe meeting hosted by the Countryside Alliance
that one area was the potential for the sale of un-pierced pigs' ears.
"After talking to farmers in Northern Ireland he said: 'Most people
will be aware that there are some cuts of the animal that are hugely
popular with the British consumer, others a little less.
" 'But some of those cuts are hugely popular elsewhere: for example
pigs' ears are a delicacy in China.'
" 'One of the reasons we've not been as successful as we might have
been in selling pigs ears into China is that EU rules dictate pigs
like all livestock have ear tags.'
'Outside the EU we can have our own traceability mechanisms.' "
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4594353/michael-gove-claims-brexit-will-allow-britain-to-sell-more-pigs-ears-to-china/
So there you have it, folks! We've not been successful in selling
pigs' ears to China, but after Brexit we'll be making BILLIONS from
the ruddy things. Pigs in a future Britain will only be reared for
their ears.

Let's not forget taking back control of our fisheries, probably after a period of compromise. Then eventually, we can again enjoy the fruits of one of the richest fishing grounds on the planet, assuming we can reverse the consequences of the EU's disastrous mismanagement of Britain's fish stocks.

I think you will find that EU boats will continue to fish here for quite a long time. The big difference will be that the fishing will not be free.

Have you seen something which says that they will have to pay?

If UK fishing grounds are going to be protected, conserved and controlled then it is going to cost money. There seems little point in incurring this expense if foreign vessels are still going to b allowed to plunder them.

In fact UK vessels are subject already to levies.

http://www.seafish.org/about-seafish/levy-and-funding

I have presumed that this levy scheme will be adapted and extended to cover all vessels. There seems no reason to assume otherwise.

[James Harris]

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by James Harris

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk

"At least Micheal Gove has a plan - and you’ll be glad to know it is a
cunning one to sell pigs’ ears to China."
http://www.pig-world.co.uk/comment/how-to-avoid-making-a-pigs-ear-of-brexit.html
"Michael Gove claims Brexit will allow Britain to sell more pig’s ears
to China"
"He was speaking at a breakfast event at the Conservative Party
Conference in Manchester, and was asked about farming opportunities
post-Brexit.
"Mr Gove told the fringe meeting hosted by the Countryside Alliance
that one area was the potential for the sale of un-pierced pigs' ears.
"After talking to farmers in Northern Ireland he said: 'Most people
will be aware that there are some cuts of the animal that are hugely
popular with the British consumer, others a little less.
" 'But some of those cuts are hugely popular elsewhere: for example
pigs' ears are a delicacy in China.'
" 'One of the reasons we've not been as successful as we might have
been in selling pigs ears into China is that EU rules dictate pigs
like all livestock have ear tags.'
'Outside the EU we can have our own traceability mechanisms.' "
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4594353/michael-gove-claims-brexit-will-allow-britain-to-sell-more-pigs-ears-to-china/
So there you have it, folks! We've not been successful in selling
pigs' ears to China, but after Brexit we'll be making BILLIONS from
the ruddy things. Pigs in a future Britain will only be reared for
their ears.

Let's not forget taking back control of our fisheries, probably after a period of compromise. Then eventually, we can again enjoy the fruits of one of the richest fishing grounds on the planet, assuming we can reverse the consequences of the EU's disastrous mismanagement of Britain's fish stocks.

I think you will find that EU boats will continue to fish here for quite a long time. The big difference will be that the fishing will not be free.

Have you seen something which says that they will have to pay?

If UK fishing grounds are going to be protected, conserved and controlled then it is going to cost money. There seems little point in incurring this expense if foreign vessels are still going to b allowed to plunder them.
In fact UK vessels are subject already to levies.
http://www.seafish.org/about-seafish/levy-and-funding
I have presumed that this levy scheme will be adapted and extended to cover all vessels. There seems no reason to assume otherwise.

I have to say I don't anything there saying that EU boats would have to
pay to access UK waters, if that's what you meant.

[MM]

Post by m***@btopenworld.com
If UK fishing grounds are going to be protected, conserved and controlled then it is going to cost money.
There seems little point in incurring this expense if foreign vessels are still going to b allowed to plunder them.

As long as we alone can plunder them, eh!

MM

[m***@btopenworld.com]

Post by MM
So there you have it, folks! We've not been successful in selling
pigs' ears to China, but after Brexit we'll be making BILLIONS from
the ruddy things. Pigs in a future Britain will only be reared for
their ears.

The Chinese are very partial to pork.

Have you ever heard the folk tale of the farmer whose pig house caught fire with the result that roast pork was invented?

I'm partial to a bit of roast pork myself!

When I were no but a lad, my old mum, a country girl by birth, used to make brawn (if you southerners know what that is?) out of pigs ears and pig cheeks.
Brawn, a little too gelatinous for many tastes is eaten with salad or, as I prefer it, with butter spread on fresh baked bread like pate.

It is aid that there is no part of a pig that can't be eaten other than the bones which were given to the dog. Even the skin fried during cooking (crackling) adds highlight to a pork meal and who has not enjoyed a packet of pork scratchings with a pint?

Pork IMV is a much maligned meat but not in China. I rather fancy the Gove's comments have been taken out of a jocular context but if anyone has signed an agreement to export pork to China then that is the equivalent of selling coal to Newcastle. China is one of the world's top producers.

[James Hammerton]

"At least Micheal Gove has a plan - and you’ll be glad to know it is a
cunning one to sell pigs’ ears to China."
http://www.pig-world.co.uk/comment/how-to-avoid-making-a-pigs-ear-of-brexit.html
"Michael Gove claims Brexit will allow Britain to sell more pig’s ears
to China"
"He was speaking at a breakfast event at the Conservative Party
Conference in Manchester, and was asked about farming opportunities
post-Brexit.
"Mr Gove told the fringe meeting hosted by the Countryside Alliance
that one area was the potential for the sale of un-pierced pigs' ears.
"After talking to farmers in Northern Ireland he said: 'Most people
will be aware that there are some cuts of the animal that are hugely
popular with the British consumer, others a little less.
" 'But some of those cuts are hugely popular elsewhere: for example
pigs' ears are a delicacy in China.'
" 'One of the reasons we've not been as successful as we might have
been in selling pigs ears into China is that EU rules dictate pigs
like all livestock have ear tags.'
'Outside the EU we can have our own traceability mechanisms.' "
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4594353/michael-gove-claims-brexit-will-allow-britain-to-sell-more-pigs-ears-to-china/
So there you have it, folks! We've not been successful in selling
pigs' ears to China, but after Brexit we'll be making BILLIONS from
the ruddy things. Pigs in a future Britain will only be reared for
their ears.
MM

At least you've found sources other than the guardian to quote from...

I note that the idea of making BILLIONS from selling pigs ears china is
your suggestion, not something that the articles have claimed. Likewise
the claim that in future pigs will only be reared for this sole purpose
in Britain.

Regards,

James

[m***@btopenworld.com]

Post by James Hammerton

"At least Micheal Gove has a plan - and you’ll be glad to know it is a
cunning one to sell pigs’ ears to China."
http://www.pig-world.co.uk/comment/how-to-avoid-making-a-pigs-ear-of-brexit.html
"Michael Gove claims Brexit will allow Britain to sell more pig’s ears
to China"
"He was speaking at a breakfast event at the Conservative Party
Conference in Manchester, and was asked about farming opportunities
post-Brexit.
"Mr Gove told the fringe meeting hosted by the Countryside Alliance
that one area was the potential for the sale of un-pierced pigs' ears.
"After talking to farmers in Northern Ireland he said: 'Most people
will be aware that there are some cuts of the animal that are hugely
popular with the British consumer, others a little less.
" 'But some of those cuts are hugely popular elsewhere: for example
pigs' ears are a delicacy in China.'
" 'One of the reasons we've not been as successful as we might have
been in selling pigs ears into China is that EU rules dictate pigs
like all livestock have ear tags.'
'Outside the EU we can have our own traceability mechanisms.' "
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4594353/michael-gove-claims-brexit-will-allow-britain-to-sell-more-pigs-ears-to-china/
So there you have it, folks! We've not been successful in selling
pigs' ears to China, but after Brexit we'll be making BILLIONS from
the ruddy things. Pigs in a future Britain will only be reared for
their ears.
MM

At least you've found sources other than the guardian to quote from...
I note that the idea of making BILLIONS from selling pigs ears china is
your suggestion, not something that the articles have claimed. Likewise
the claim that in future pigs will only be reared for this sole purpose
in Britain.

Such an idea is too ridiculous to be taken seriously. I just wanted to show and promote the virtues of a pig as a source of food. I once had two uncles who each kept pigs. There is no meat like home cured bacon or ham.

My dad used to say , if you could only have a pork joint for your Christmas dinner you would not have a poor Christmas.

[Incubus]

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by James Hammerton

"At least Micheal Gove has a plan - and you’ll be glad to know it
is a cunning one to sell pigs’ ears to China."
http://www.pig-world.co.uk/comment/how-to-avoid-making-a-pigs-ear-of-brexit.html

"Michael Gove claims Brexit will allow Britain to sell more pig’s ears

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by James Hammerton

to China"
"He was speaking at a breakfast event at the Conservative Party
Conference in Manchester, and was asked about farming
opportunities post-Brexit.
"Mr Gove told the fringe meeting hosted by the Countryside
Alliance that one area was the potential for the sale of
un-pierced pigs' ears.
"After talking to farmers in Northern Ireland he said: 'Most
people will be aware that there are some cuts of the animal that
are hugely popular with the British consumer, others a little
less.
" 'But some of those cuts are hugely popular elsewhere: for
example pigs' ears are a delicacy in China.'
" 'One of the reasons we've not been as successful as we might
have been in selling pigs ears into China is that EU rules
dictate pigs like all livestock have ear tags.'
"He said that was for 'very good reasons' of traceability, but
added: 'Outside the EU we can have our own traceability
mechanisms.' "
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4594353/michael-gove-claims-brexit-will-allow-britain-to-sell-more-pigs-ears-to-china/

So there you have it, folks! We've not been successful in selling

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by James Hammerton

pigs' ears to China, but after Brexit we'll be making BILLIONS
from the ruddy things. Pigs in a future Britain will only be
reared for their ears.
MM

At least you've found sources other than the guardian to quote from...
I note that the idea of making BILLIONS from selling pigs ears
china is your suggestion, not something that the articles have
claimed. Likewise the claim that in future pigs will only be reared
for this sole purpose in Britain.

Such an idea is too ridiculous to be taken seriously. I just wanted
to show and promote the virtues of a pig as a source of food. I once
had two uncles who each kept pigs. There is no meat like home cured
bacon or ham.
My dad used to say , if you could only have a pork joint for your
Christmas dinner you would not have a poor Christmas.

Really bad for your cardiovascular system.

[MM]

Post by Incubus
Really bad for your cardiovascular system.

Nope. It's sugar that is the real enemy, not meat.

MM

[Incubus]

Post by MM

Post by Incubus
Really bad for your cardiovascular system.

Nope. It's sugar that is the real enemy, not meat.

Wrong again. You have a severe case of chronic wrongness.

[MM]

Post by Incubus

Post by MM

Post by Incubus
Really bad for your cardiovascular system.

Nope. It's sugar that is the real enemy, not meat.

Wrong again. You have a severe case of chronic wrongness.

From a cardiologist:

"Why did it take us so long to realise sugar, not fat, was the enemy?
In a move that would make most big pharma companies proud, new
research published in JAMA Internal Medicine found sugar companies
paid to downplay the white stuff's role in heart disease during the
1960s. Scary stuff, even more so because it's had lasting effects on
public perceptions. It's time everyone woke up to the truth about fat
and sugar. MH investigates...

"This morning, as I do most days, I breakfasted on a three egg
omelette cooked in coconut oil, with a whole milk coffee. I enjoyed a
wedge of full fat cheese with my lunch, poured a liberal dose of olive
oil on my evening salad and snacked on nuts throughout the day. In
short, I ingested a fair amount of fat and, as a cardiologist who has
treated thousands of people with heart disease, this may seem a
particularly peculiar way to behave. Fat, after all, furs up our
arteries and piles on the pounds -- or at least that’s what prevailing
medical and dietary advice has had us believe. As a result, most of us
have spent years eschewing full fat foods for their ‘low fat’
equivalents, in the hope it will leave us fitter and healthier.

"Yet I’m now convinced we have instead been doing untold damage: far
from being the best thing for health or weight loss, a low fat diet is
the opposite. In fact, I would go so far as to say the change in
dietary advice in 1977 to restrict the amount of fat we were eating
helped to fuel the obesity epidemic unfolding today. It’s a bold
statement, but one I believe is upheld by an array of recent research.

"These days I make a point of telling my patients -- many of whom are
coping with debilitating heart problems -- to avoid anything bearing
the label ‘low fat’. Better instead, I tell them, to embrace full fat
dairy and other saturated fats within the context of a healthy eating
plan. It’s an instruction that is sometimes greeted with open-mouthed
astonishment, along with my request to steer clear of anything that
promises to reduce cholesterol -- another of those edicts we are told
can promote optimum heart and artery health.

"As we will see, the reality is far more nuanced: in some cases
lowering cholesterol levels can actually increase cardiovascular death
and mortality, while in healthy people over sixty a higher cholesterol
is associated with a lower risk of mortality. Why, exactly, we will
come to later.

"First though, let me make it clear that until very recently, I too
assumed that keeping fat to a minimum was the key to keeping healthy
and trim. In fact, to say my diet revolved around carbohydrates is
probably an understatement: sugared cereal, toast and orange juice for
breakfast, a panini for lunch and pasta for dinner was not an uncommon
daily menu. Good solid fuel, or so I thought, especially as I am a
keen sportsman and runner. Still, I had a wedge of fat round my
stomach which no amount of football and running seemed to shift."

Rest of article for those who want to read the whole of it here:
http://www.menshealth.co.uk/food-nutrition/the-truth-about-fat-and-sugar-is-finally-explained

Incubus won't want to, of course.

MM

[Incubus]

Post by MM

Post by Incubus

Post by MM

Post by Incubus
Really bad for your cardiovascular system.

Nope. It's sugar that is the real enemy, not meat.

Wrong again. You have a severe case of chronic wrongness.

"Why did it take us so long to realise sugar, not fat, was the enemy?
In a move that would make most big pharma companies proud, new
research published in JAMA Internal Medicine found sugar companies
paid to downplay the white stuff's role in heart disease during the
1960s. Scary stuff, even more so because it's had lasting effects on
public perceptions. It's time everyone woke up to the truth about fat
and sugar. MH investigates...
"This morning, as I do most days, I breakfasted on a three egg
omelette cooked in coconut oil, with a whole milk coffee. I enjoyed a
wedge of full fat cheese with my lunch, poured a liberal dose of olive
oil on my evening salad and snacked on nuts throughout the day. In
short, I ingested a fair amount of fat and, as a cardiologist who has
treated thousands of people with heart disease, this may seem a
particularly peculiar way to behave. Fat, after all, furs up our
arteries and piles on the pounds -- or at least that’s what prevailing
medical and dietary advice has had us believe. As a result, most of us
have spent years eschewing full fat foods for their ‘low fat’
equivalents, in the hope it will leave us fitter and healthier.
"Yet I’m now convinced we have instead been doing untold damage: far
from being the best thing for health or weight loss, a low fat diet is
the opposite. In fact, I would go so far as to say the change in
dietary advice in 1977 to restrict the amount of fat we were eating
helped to fuel the obesity epidemic unfolding today. It’s a bold
statement, but one I believe is upheld by an array of recent research.
"These days I make a point of telling my patients -- many of whom are
coping with debilitating heart problems -- to avoid anything bearing
the label ‘low fat’. Better instead, I tell them, to embrace full fat
dairy and other saturated fats within the context of a healthy eating
plan. It’s an instruction that is sometimes greeted with open-mouthed
astonishment, along with my request to steer clear of anything that
promises to reduce cholesterol -- another of those edicts we are told
can promote optimum heart and artery health.
"As we will see, the reality is far more nuanced: in some cases
lowering cholesterol levels can actually increase cardiovascular death
and mortality, while in healthy people over sixty a higher cholesterol
is associated with a lower risk of mortality. Why, exactly, we will
come to later.
"First though, let me make it clear that until very recently, I too
assumed that keeping fat to a minimum was the key to keeping healthy
and trim. In fact, to say my diet revolved around carbohydrates is
probably an understatement: sugared cereal, toast and orange juice for
breakfast, a panini for lunch and pasta for dinner was not an uncommon
daily menu. Good solid fuel, or so I thought, especially as I am a
keen sportsman and runner. Still, I had a wedge of fat round my
stomach which no amount of football and running seemed to shift."
http://www.menshealth.co.uk/food-nutrition/the-truth-about-fat-and-sugar-is-finally-explained
Incubus won't want to, of course.

I read it. Unlike you, I don't ignore anything that runs counter to my
perceptions.

It's an interesting article but there is a wealth of evidence to suggest
that saturated fats cause untold damage. There is no doubt that sugar
is also dangerous but rather than having a low carbohydrate diet, it is
better to eat whole grains only.

[MM]

Post by Incubus
It's an interesting article but there is a wealth of evidence to suggest
that saturated fats cause untold damage.

No, there's a wealth of evidencce to show that saturated fats do NOT
cause untold damage.

<quote>
1. Hooper L, et al. Reduction in saturated fat intake for
cardiovascular disease. Cochrane Database Systematic Review, 2015.

Details: This is a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized
controlled trials, performed by the Cochrane collaboration - an
independent organization of scientists.

It is probably the best review you can find on this at the moment, and
includes 15 randomized controlled trials with over 59,000
participants.

Each of these studies had a control group, reduced saturated fat or
replaced it with other types of fat, lasted for at least 24 months and
looked at hard endpoints, such as heart attacks or death.

Results: The study found no statistically significant effects of
reducing saturated fat, in regard to heart attacks, strokes or
all-cause deaths.

Although reducing saturated fat had no effects, replacing some of it
with polyunsaturated fat led to a 27% lower risk of cardiovascular
events (but not death, heart attacks or strokes).

Conclusion: People who reduced their saturated fat intake were just as
likely to die, or get heart attacks or strokes, compared to those who
ate more saturated fat.

However, partially replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat
may reduce the risk of cardiovascular events (but not death, heart
attacks or strokes).

These results are similar to a previous Cochrane review, done in 2011
(2).

2. De Souza RJ, et al. Intake of saturated and trans unsaturated fatty
acids and risk of all cause mortality, cardiovascular disease, and
type 2 diabetes: systematic review and meta-analysis of observational
studies. BMJ, 2015.

Details: This systematic review and meta-analysis reviewed
observational studies on the association of saturated fat and heart
disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and death from cardiovascular
disease.

The data included 73 studies, with 90,500 -- 339,000 participants for
each endpoint.

Results: Saturated fat intake was not linked with heart disease,
stroke, type 2 diabetes or dying of any cause.

Conclusion: People who consumed more saturated fat were not more
likely to experience heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes or death
from any cause, compared to those who ate less saturated fat.

However, the results from the individual studies were very diverse, so
it is hard to draw an exact conclusion from them.

The researchers rated the certainty of the association as "low,"
emphasizing the need for more high-quality studies on the subject.

3. Siri-Tarino PW, et al. Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies
evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular
disease. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 2010.

Details: This meta-analysis reviewed evidence from observational
studies on the link between dietary saturated fat and risk of heart
disease and stroke.

The studies included a total of 347,747 participants, who were
followed for 5–23 years.

Results: During follow up, about 3% of participants (11,006 people)
developed heart disease or stroke.

Saturated fat intake was not linked with an increased risk of
cardiovascular disease, heart attacks or strokes, even among those
with the highest intake.

Conclusion: This study did not find any association between saturated
fat intake and cardiovascular disease.

4. Chowdhury R, et al. Association of dietary, circulating, and
supplement fatty acids with coronary risk: a systematic review and
meta-analysis. Annals of Internal Medicine Journal, 2014.

Details: This study reviewed cohort studies and randomized controlled
trials on the link between fatty acids and the risk of heart disease
or sudden cardiac death.

The study included 49 observational studies with more than 550,000
participants, as well as 27 randomized controlled trials with more
than 100,000 participants.

Results: The study did not find any link between saturated fat
consumption and the risk of heart disease or death.

Conclusion: People with higher saturated fat intake were not at an
increased risk of heart disease or sudden death.

Furthermore, the researchers did not find any benefit to consuming
polyunsaturated fats instead of saturated fats. Long-chain omega-3
fatty acids were an exception, as they had protective effects.

5. Schwab U, et al. Effect of the amount and type of dietary fat on
risk factors for cardiovascular diseases, and risk of developing type
2 diabetes, cardiovascular diseases, and cancer: a systematic review.
Food and Nutrition Research, 2014.

Details: This systematic review assessed the effects of amount and
type of dietary fat on body weight and risk of type 2 diabetes,
cardiovascular disease and cancer.

Participants included both people who were healthy and those with risk
factors. This review included 607 studies; randomized controlled
trials, prospective cohort studies and nested case-control studies.

Results: Consuming saturated fat was not linked with an increased risk
of heart disease or an increased risk of type 2 diabetes.

The researchers found that partially replacing saturated fat with
polyunsaturated or monounsaturated fat may lower LDL cholesterol
concentrations and decrease the risk of cardiovascular disease,
especially in men.

However, substituting refined carbs for saturated fat may increase the
risk of cardiovascular disease.

Conclusion: Eating saturated fat does not increase the risk of heart
disease or type 2 diabetes. However, partially replacing saturated fat
with polyunsaturated fat may help reduce the risk of heart disease,
especially in men.

Summary

Reducing saturated fat has no effect on the risk of heart disease
or death.
Replacing saturated fat with refined carbs seems to increase the
risk of heart disease.
Replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat may reduce the
risk of cardiovascular events, but results for heart attacks, strokes
and death are mixed.
</quote>
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-fat#section1

Wholegrain is of course good for you, but that has nothing to do with
saturated fat versus sugar.

MM

[Altroy1]

"At least Micheal Gove has a plan - and you’ll be glad to know it is a
cunning one to sell pigs’ ears to China."
http://www.pig-world.co.uk/comment/how-to-avoid-making-a-pigs-ear-of-brexit.html
"Michael Gove claims Brexit will allow Britain to sell more pig’s ears
to China"
"He was speaking at a breakfast event at the Conservative Party
Conference in Manchester, and was asked about farming opportunities
post-Brexit.
"Mr Gove told the fringe meeting hosted by the Countryside Alliance
that one area was the potential for the sale of un-pierced pigs' ears.
"After talking to farmers in Northern Ireland he said: 'Most people
will be aware that there are some cuts of the animal that are hugely
popular with the British consumer, others a little less.

Gove's a Fckn genius. Why even bother with the rest of the pig when there's such
a lucrative trade on offer with the grateful Chinese that will simply pay pay
pay shiploads of £££'s for pigs ears once the nasty holes mandated by the wicked
EU are no longer there.

Thank you China for rushing to the rescue in response to the Land of the Free's
less than stellar attitude to free trade:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/us/politics/washing-machines-trade-whirlpool.html

Washing Machine War Will Test Trump's Mettle on Trade

By ANA SWANSON OCT. 5, 2017

WASHINGTON - A brewing fight over imported washing machines
will pose a key test for President Trump's willingness to
impose the type of strict trade barriers he often touts as
necessary to protect American businesses.

The United States International Trade Commission cleared the
way Thursday for possible trade actions with its ruling that
surging imports of washers are harming American manufacturers.