Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying SissyPost by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying SissyPost by Dorothy J HeydtPost by Gutless Umbrella Carrying SissyPost by James NicollPost by Gene WirchenkoHe has also stated that he does not cover Puppies
authors. There
are two biases out in the open. It makes it very
difficult to trust his judgement.
Out of curiosity, which Puppy authors do you think would
have turned up in my in-box absent Hugo shenanigans? Off
the top of my head, most of them write unremarkable to bad
material, which is why they had to resort to gaming the
rules to get nominated.
Or so you claim. They claim that anyone who does not tow
the poltical line will be excluded regardless of the
quality of their writing.
Why is your claim more credible than theirs? After all,
*they* haven't changed the rules specifically to exclude
those whose politics they disagree with. Twice, so far.
Guys, I haven't been to a Worldcon in years (though I
believe we're going to go to ConJose, it being nearby) and
this whole Puppy thing has gone over my head. Would anybody
like to list a few of the most egregious Puppies, so that I
can avoid them?
Now that they have been completely disenfranchised by the
rules changes,
Not at all. They just now have to play by rules that are harder to
game.
They played by the rules. The powers that be didn't like that
they had a real chance to affect the outcome. So they changed
the rules.
It's like the ten year old boys who don't want girl cooties in
their treehouse.
If they can get enough members to like their stuff, they
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)can still be nominated.
What they HAVE done is piss everyone involved off so that this will be
much harder than it would've been if they had taken that
approach in the first place. They just wanted everything to
CHANGE RIGHT NOW OR ELSE.
Which is to say, you agree that the politics
No. The group dynamics.
Yes, politics.
play strictly by the rules, but don't act the way the insiders want
you to
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)kick
everything over,
you will find the group does not like you. Politics aren't the
issue,
Politics is precisely the issue.
even though the Puppies deluded themselves into thinking
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)it was. Yes, there was preference for more literary and socially
conscious works over straight entertainment and Mil-SF, but it
was just that, preference, not politics, not some weird cabal as
they wanted desperately to believe.
Note that the Hugos are open to _anyone_ who pays the fee. It's not
a *private* club. However assholish the various Puppies - I note
you still refuse to distinguish between two very distinct groups -
might have been, the response was childish, and demonstrated very
convincingly that this was all about girl cooties in the treehouse,
and that it was pure politics.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)And then they came in and kicked everything around -- oh,
all within
the rules, like any asshole munchkin rules-lawyers do -- and now
they're "vindicated" because they succeeded in CREATING the
group of people opposing them. Before, at most, it was "we don't
particularly care for the kind of stuff you're writing, and so
we're not likely to vote for it"; that could have been addressed
by just joining the group, working with them, and becoming part
of the group.
Before, it was "we don't want that stuff to win." Now, it's "we
don't want that stuff to win, and we'll keep changing the rules
until it can't." Well, it was *always* that, but now it's overt.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)Instead they chose to rules-lawyer and yell and scream, and so NOW it's
"I really don't care what they write, I'm not voting for those
assholes".
Once again, you agree that it's not about the quality of the
writing. At all. It's about politics, personal, group, whatever,
but about politics. Girl cooties in the treehouse.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)Congratulations, Puppies, you've created that cabal
you were talking about.
It's always been there.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)Eric Flint and I felt the same way about it; he wrote some quite
detailed dissections of the entire idiocy on his site.
And he and you are exactly as credible as anyone else. Including
any particular Puppy.
But what's been done publicly has been done publicly, and cannot be
undone. And what's been done publicly is the people who run the
Hugos didn't like that outsiders brought those girl cooties into
their treehouse, and, realizing they were losing control of that
treehouse, changed the rules to ensure it never happens again, _no
matter how many people feel it should_.
They have, in effect, said "Hey, we're going to pretend this is
open to anyone with a few bucks to spare, but really, only those
who vote the way we want them to."
--
Terry Austin
Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.