didn't I?

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you do
after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?"
There was no one around who could confirm or deny the statement.
It could be that the person directed it at themself, but from the
"... obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but I think you have to couple it with people in the fictional
Midsomer County and how they talk there. Some of our British posters can
likely shed light. I'm not sure whether it's part of a regional dialect
in real life, or a conceit that's more meaningful to Britons than it is
to me. I think I have heard the expression in other programs, but can't
recall which ones.

--
bill

Tony Cooper

2017-04-15 05:37:20 UTC

The same or and similar usages appear in British TV shows and
Brit-written fiction, so I don't see anything unusual about it. In
this group, we see "innit" quite frequently, and that's "isn't it?"
and very similar.

That type of rhetorical question ending to a sentence is also present
in AmE: "That was an expensive dinner, wasn't it?" "That's a nice
car, wouldn't you say?"

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Quinn C

2017-04-15 13:36:40 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper

The same or and similar usages appear in British TV shows and
Brit-written fiction, so I don't see anything unusual about it. In
this group, we see "innit" quite frequently, and that's "isn't it?"
and very similar.
That type of rhetorical question ending to a sentence is also present
in AmE: "That was an expensive dinner, wasn't it?" "That's a nice
car, wouldn't you say?"

Sure, but that wasn't exactly my question. All your examples are
situations where other people might have knowledge or an opinion
on the matter, which they may or may not be expected to give as a
response.

I was asking about the use in a situation where the others present
objectively can't be expected to have knowledge, and can't be
expected to answer even if they have a hypothesis.

CDB's answer seems like a good fit for my intuition: the tag
question expresses that the other ought to know the answer, in
this case, based on common sense.

--
There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is
to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies.
And the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no
obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult.
-- C. A. R. Hoare

b***@aol.com

2017-04-15 14:06:38 UTC

Post by Quinn C

Post by Tony Cooper

The same or and similar usages appear in British TV shows and
Brit-written fiction, so I don't see anything unusual about it. In
this group, we see "innit" quite frequently, and that's "isn't it?"
and very similar.
That type of rhetorical question ending to a sentence is also present
in AmE: "That was an expensive dinner, wasn't it?" "That's a nice
car, wouldn't you say?"

Sure, but that wasn't exactly my question. All your examples are
situations where other people might have knowledge or an opinion
on the matter, which they may or may not be expected to give as a
response.
I was asking about the use in a situation where the others present
objectively can't be expected to have knowledge, and can't be
expected to answer even if they have a hypothesis.
CDB's answer seems like a good fit for my intuition: the tag
question expresses that the other ought to know the answer, in
this case, based on common sense.

Perhaps like some mitigated version of "duh", then?

Post by Quinn C
--
There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is
to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies.
And the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no
obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult.
-- C. A. R. Hoare

m***@gmail.com

2017-04-15 20:04:02 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
That type of rhetorical question ending to a sentence is also present
in AmE: "That was an expensive dinner, wasn't it?" "That's a nice
car, wouldn't you say?"

Yes, but I can't think of an example where "didn't I" would be used in AmE as it was in MidSomer Murders, except in a case where one did not entirely trust one's memory.

"Let's see. It was snowing, right? And you stayed inside and I went and got the car, didn't I?"

Tex

m***@gmail.com

2017-04-15 20:05:49 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
That type of rhetorical question ending to a sentence is also present
in AmE: "That was an expensive dinner, wasn't it?" "That's a nice
car, wouldn't you say?"

Yes, but I can't think of an example where "didn't I" would be used in AmE as it was in Midsomer Murders, except in a case where one did not entirely trust one's memory.

"Let's see. It was snowing, right? And you stayed inside and I went and got the car, didn't I?"

Tex

CDB

2017-04-15 12:53:37 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you do
after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?"
There was no one around who could confirm or deny the statement. It
could be that the person directed it at themself, but from the tone
of voice, I got the impression that it was rather meant like: "...
obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but I think you have to couple it with people in the
fictional Midsomer County and how they talk there. Some of our
British posters can likely shed light. I'm not sure whether it's part
of a regional dialect in real life, or a conceit that's more
meaningful to Britons than it is to me. I think I have heard the
expression in other programs, but can't recall which ones.

I think the request for confirmation comes from an ironic assumption
that the answer is something the original asker already knows, or ought
to know, better than the answerer. Innit, eh.

Janet

2017-04-15 14:59:55 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you do
after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?"
There was no one around who could confirm or deny the statement. It
could be that the person directed it at themself, but from the tone
of voice, I got the impression that it was rather meant like: "...
obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but I think you have to couple it with people in the
fictional Midsomer County and how they talk there. Some of our
British posters can likely shed light. I'm not sure whether it's part
of a regional dialect in real life, or a conceit that's more
meaningful to Britons than it is to me. I think I have heard the
expression in other programs, but can't recall which ones.

I think the request for confirmation comes from an ironic assumption
that the answer is something the original asker already knows, or ought
to know, better than the answerer. Innit, eh.

I wouldn't interpret it that way at all.

"Didn't I" is just a personal confirmation or intensifier, isn't it.

Janet.

Sam Plusnet

2017-04-15 19:30:41 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you do
after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?"
There was no one around who could confirm or deny the statement. It
could be that the person directed it at themself, but from the tone
of voice, I got the impression that it was rather meant like: "...
obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but I think you have to couple it with people in the
fictional Midsomer County and how they talk there. Some of our
British posters can likely shed light. I'm not sure whether it's part
of a regional dialect in real life, or a conceit that's more
meaningful to Britons than it is to me. I think I have heard the
expression in other programs, but can't recall which ones.

I think the request for confirmation comes from an ironic assumption
that the answer is something the original asker already knows, or ought
to know, better than the answerer. Innit, eh.

I wouldn't interpret it that way at all.
"Didn't I" is just a personal confirmation or intensifier, isn't it.

If someone answers a question in that way, it seems to me to be both
defensive and truculent - which might well be the case if they are being
"interrogated" by the police.

--
Sam Plusnet

CDB

2017-04-15 21:16:35 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you
do after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?"
There was no one around who could confirm or deny the
statement. It could be that the person directed it at themself,
but from the tone of voice, I got the impression that it was
rather meant like: "... obviously, or what do you think I'd do
at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but I think you have to couple it with people in the
fictional Midsomer County and how they talk there. Some of our
British posters can likely shed light. I'm not sure whether it's
part of a regional dialect in real life, or a conceit that's
more meaningful to Britons than it is to me. I think I have heard
the expression in other programs, but can't recall which ones.

I think the request for confirmation comes from an ironic
assumption that the answer is something the original asker already
knows, or ought to know, better than the answerer. Innit, eh.

I wouldn't interpret it that way at all.
"Didn't I" is just a personal confirmation or intensifier, isn't it.

I agree that that's how it's used. The assumption is ironic.

Quinn C

2017-04-16 18:31:47 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you
do after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?"
There was no one around who could confirm or deny the
statement. It could be that the person directed it at themself,
but from the tone of voice, I got the impression that it was
rather meant like: "... obviously, or what do you think I'd do
at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but I think you have to couple it with people in the
fictional Midsomer County and how they talk there. Some of our
British posters can likely shed light. I'm not sure whether it's
part of a regional dialect in real life, or a conceit that's
more meaningful to Britons than it is to me. I think I have heard
the expression in other programs, but can't recall which ones.

I think the request for confirmation comes from an ironic
assumption that the answer is something the original asker already
knows, or ought to know, better than the answerer. Innit, eh.

I wouldn't interpret it that way at all.
"Didn't I" is just a personal confirmation or intensifier, isn't it.

I agree that that's how it's used. The assumption is ironic.

Your two sentences seem to contradict each other.

My question is indeed whether, when it's not an actual request for
confirmation - it's always a personal confirmation ("... hm, was
that how it was? Let me think ...") or contain a - possibly ironic
- assumption about the communication partner ("... or what do you
think I did?")

--
Democracy means government by the uneducated,
while aristocracy means government by the badly educated.
-- G. K. Chesterton

CDB

2017-04-17 13:49:24 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people
were answering to questions from the police, like "and what
did you do after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't
I?"
There was no one around who could confirm or deny the
statement. It could be that the person directed it at
themself, but from the tone of voice, I got the impression
that it was rather meant like: "... obviously, or what do
you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but I think you have to couple it with people in
the fictional Midsomer County and how they talk there. Some
of our British posters can likely shed light. I'm not sure
whether it's part of a regional dialect in real life, or a
conceit that's more meaningful to Britons than it is to me. I
think I have heard the expression in other programs, but
can't recall which ones.

I think the request for confirmation comes from an ironic
assumption that the answer is something the original asker
already knows, or ought to know, better than the answerer.
Innit, eh.

I wouldn't interpret it that way at all.
"Didn't I" is just a personal confirmation or intensifier, isn't it.

I agree that that's how it's used. The assumption is ironic.

Your two sentences seem to contradict each other.

I don't see that. I agreed with Janet that the expression is used as an
intensifier. I should have added "often", because I agree with another
poster (sorry) that it sometimes means that the answer is obvious, and
may express defensiveness or impatience.

I said that the assumption underlying the expression (which is in the
form of a request for confirmation) -- that the person spoken to already
knows the answer and can confirm or deny it -- is ironic (not meant to
be understood literally but to convey a different message).

Post by Quinn C
My question is indeed whether, when it's not an actual request for
confirmation - it's always a personal confirmation ("... hm, was that
how it was? Let me think ...") or contain a - possibly ironic -
assumption about the communication partner ("... or what do you think
I did?")

I don't think I've heard it as a sincere request for confirmation. The
intonation would be different. Maybe a native BrE-speaker can tell you.

Katy Jennison

2017-04-17 14:16:27 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people
were answering to questions from the police, like "and what
did you do after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't
I?"
There was no one around who could confirm or deny the
statement. It could be that the person directed it at
themself, but from the tone of voice, I got the impression
that it was rather meant like: "... obviously, or what do
you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but I think you have to couple it with people in
the fictional Midsomer County and how they talk there. Some
of our British posters can likely shed light. I'm not sure
whether it's part of a regional dialect in real life, or a
conceit that's more meaningful to Britons than it is to me. I
think I have heard the expression in other programs, but
can't recall which ones.

I think the request for confirmation comes from an ironic
assumption that the answer is something the original asker
already knows, or ought to know, better than the answerer.
Innit, eh.

I wouldn't interpret it that way at all.
"Didn't I" is just a personal confirmation or intensifier, isn't it.

I agree that that's how it's used. The assumption is ironic.

Your two sentences seem to contradict each other.

I don't see that. I agreed with Janet that the expression is used as an
intensifier. I should have added "often", because I agree with another
poster (sorry) that it sometimes means that the answer is obvious, and
may express defensiveness or impatience.
I said that the assumption underlying the expression (which is in the
form of a request for confirmation) -- that the person spoken to already
knows the answer and can confirm or deny it -- is ironic (not meant to
be understood literally but to convey a different message).

I don't think I've heard it as a sincere request for confirmation. The
intonation would be different. Maybe a native BrE-speaker can tell you.

A request for confirmation seems to me perfectly plausible ("Thursday?
Jill, help me out here -- I went to Cheltenham on Thursday, didn't I?
Or was that Friday?"), but it would have a rising intonation as
indicated by a question-mark, whereas the "duh" sense wouldn't.

--
Katy Jennison

CDB

2017-04-17 18:54:41 UTC

Post by Quinn C

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of
people were answering to questions from the police,
like "and what did you do after that?" in the form "I
went home, didn't I?"
There was no one around who could confirm or deny the
statement. It could be that the person directed it at
themself, but from the tone of voice, I got the
impression that it was rather meant like: "...
obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but I think you have to couple it with people
in the fictional Midsomer County and how they talk there.
Some of our British posters can likely shed light. I'm
not sure whether it's part of a regional dialect in real
life, or a conceit that's more meaningful to Britons than
it is to me. I think I have heard the expression in other
programs, but can't recall which ones.

I think the request for confirmation comes from an ironic
assumption that the answer is something the original asker
already knows, or ought to know, better than the answerer.
Innit, eh.

I wouldn't interpret it that way at all.
"Didn't I" is just a personal confirmation or intensifier,
isn't it.

I agree that that's how it's used. The assumption is ironic.

Your two sentences seem to contradict each other.

I don't see that. I agreed with Janet that the expression is used
as an intensifier. I should have added "often", because I agree
with another poster (sorry) that it sometimes means that the answer
is obvious, and may express defensiveness or impatience.
I said that the assumption underlying the expression (which is in
the form of a request for confirmation) -- that the person spoken
to already knows the answer and can confirm or deny it -- is ironic
(not meant to be understood literally but to convey a different
message).

Post by Quinn C
My question is indeed whether, when it's not an actual request
for confirmation - it's always a personal confirmation ("... hm,
was that how it was? Let me think ...") or contain a - possibly
ironic - assumption about the communication partner ("... or what
do you think I did?")

I don't think I've heard it as a sincere request for confirmation.
The intonation would be different. Maybe a native BrE-speaker can
tell you.

A request for confirmation seems to me perfectly plausible
("Thursday? Jill, help me out here -- I went to Cheltenham on
Thursday, didn't I? Or was that Friday?"), but it would have a rising
intonation as indicated by a question-mark, whereas the "duh" sense
wouldn't.

Thank you.

Peter Young

2017-04-15 06:46:37 UTC

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is what I
think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common in some
registers of BrE.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Ir)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2017-04-15 11:46:21 UTC

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is what I
think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common in some
registers of BrE.

Aint't that so.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Janet

2017-04-15 11:50:11 UTC

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is what I
think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common in some
registers of BrE.

Aint't that so.

So it is.

Janet.

Richard Tobin

2017-04-15 14:02:18 UTC

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is what I
think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common in some
registers of BrE.

Aint't that so.

So it is.

Innit.

-- Richard

Katy Jennison

2017-04-15 14:22:15 UTC

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is what I
think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common in some
registers of BrE.

Aint't that so.

So it is.

Innit.

Right?

--
Katy Jennison

Reinhold {Rey} Aman

2017-04-15 16:04:08 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?
Nicht wahr?
Néd woa?

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~

RH Draney

2017-04-16 00:46:55 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?
Nicht wahr?
Néd woa?

Ne.

....r

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2017-04-16 10:10:11 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

Post by Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Nicht wahr?
Néd woa?

--
athel

Jerry Friedman

2017-04-17 16:11:06 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...

In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

--
Jerry Friedman

Lewis

2017-04-18 05:23:24 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think. Or ¿Porqué no? maybe, but that would be a different
meaning. There's also ¡no que no! but, again, that's something else
entirely.

I'd take ¿Qué no? to be used a like a Northerner in England would use
innit.

--
On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of course.
But mostly evil deeds. --Wyrd Sisters

Charles Bishop

2017-04-18 13:15:31 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
Â¿(No es) verdad?

Or just Â¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "Â¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

Â¿QuÃ© no? I'd think. Or Â¿PorquÃ© no? maybe, but that would be a different
meaning. There's also Â¡no que no! but, again, that's something else
entirely.

I use "y porque no?" but not ending my sentence, but in response to what
someone else says. The intended meaning is the same as "and why not?" in
English.

I'd take Â¿QuÃ© no? to be used a like a Northerner in England would use
innit.

This confused me for a short time, innit.

--
charles

Jerry Friedman

2017-04-18 14:15:22 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think.

A difficult question, and I don't know whether there's a standard
answer. My feeling, FWIW, is that "que" there is not an interrogative
word but short for something like "¿Me dices que no?" I could be
totally wrong.

Or ¿Porqué no? maybe, but that would be a different
meaning. There's also ¡no que no! but, again, that's something else
entirely.
I'd take ¿Qué no? to be used a like a Northerner in England would use
innit.

Around here I think it often means real uncertainty.

--
Jerry Friedman

b***@aol.com

2017-04-18 15:08:47 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think.

I'm not sure whether you heard "¿Que no?" in situations
where it meant "Duh!". If so, it might be a vernacularism
for "¡Cómo no!" and it would indeed be spelled "¿Qué no?".

Around here I think it often means real uncertainty.
--
Jerry Friedman

b***@aol.com

2017-04-18 15:47:02 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think.

I'm not sure whether you heard "¿Que no?" in situations
where it meant "Duh!". If so, it might be a vernacularism
for "¡Cómo no!" and it would indeed be spelled "¿Qué no?".

As an afterthought, in that case, the stress pattern would likely be "¿*Qué* no?" as opposed to "¿Que *no*?" for a mere "Innit?" meaning.

Around here I think it often means real uncertainty.
--
Jerry Friedman

Lewis

2017-04-19 02:11:23 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think.

I'm not sure whether you heard "¿Que no?" in situations
where it meant "Duh!". If so, it might be a vernacularism
for "¡Cómo no!" and it would indeed be spelled "¿Qué no?".

As an afterthought, in that case, the stress pattern would likely be
"¿*Qué* no?" as opposed to "¿Que *no*?" for a mere "Innit?" meaning.

All (?) interrogatives in Spanish get accents. And accents are
independent of the other words. que and qué are pronounced identically,
but Spanish speakers put the questioning rise at the start instead of at
the end as in English (whihc is why the ¿ is needed.

¿que no? can't be right as the que is misspelt. ¡Que no! would be fine.

--
A: You can never go too far. B: If I'm gonna get busted, it is *not*
gonna be by a guy like *that*.

b***@aol.com

2017-04-19 02:43:09 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think.

I'm not sure whether you heard "¿Que no?" in situations
where it meant "Duh!". If so, it might be a vernacularism
for "¡Cómo no!" and it would indeed be spelled "¿Qué no?".

As an afterthought, in that case, the stress pattern would likely be
"¿*Qué* no?" as opposed to "¿Que *no*?" for a mere "Innit?" meaning.

All (?) interrogatives in Spanish get accents. And accents are
independent of the other words. que and qué are pronounced identically,
but Spanish speakers put the questioning rise at the start instead of at
the end as in English (whihc is why the ¿ is needed.
¿que no? can't be right as the que is misspelt. ¡Que no! would be fine.

No, what JF said is that he thinks "¿que no?" could be short for "¿Me dices que no?". In that case, "que" is the conjunction, not the interrogative adjective/a pronoun "qué".

Post by Lewis
--
A: You can never go too far. B: If I'm gonna get busted, it is *not*
gonna be by a guy like *that*.

b***@aol.com

2017-04-19 02:48:43 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think.

I'm not sure whether you heard "¿Que no?" in situations
where it meant "Duh!". If so, it might be a vernacularism
for "¡Cómo no!" and it would indeed be spelled "¿Qué no?".

As an afterthought, in that case, the stress pattern would likely be
"¿*Qué* no?" as opposed to "¿Que *no*?" for a mere "Innit?" meaning.

All (?) interrogatives in Spanish get accents. And accents are
independent of the other words. que and qué are pronounced identically,
but Spanish speakers put the questioning rise at the start instead of at
the end as in English (whihc is why the ¿ is needed.
¿que no? can't be right as the que is misspelt. ¡Que no! would be fine.

No, what JF said is that he thinks "¿que no?" could be short for "¿Me
dices que no?". In that case, "que" is the conjunction, not the
interrogative adjective/a pronoun "qué".

...not the interrogative adjective/pronoun "qué".

Post by Lewis
--
A: You can never go too far. B: If I'm gonna get busted, it is *not*
gonna be by a guy like *that*.

Jerry Friedman

2017-04-19 16:43:16 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think.

I'm not sure whether you heard "¿Que no?" in situations
where it meant "Duh!". If so, it might be a vernacularism
for "¡Cómo no!" and it would indeed be spelled "¿Qué no?".

As an afterthought, in that case, the stress pattern would likely be
"¿*Qué* no?" as opposed to "¿Que *no*?" for a mere "Innit?" meaning.

All (?) interrogatives in Spanish get accents. And accents are
independent of the other words. que and qué are pronounced identically,
but Spanish speakers put the questioning rise at the start instead of at
the end as in English (whihc is why the ¿ is needed.
¿que no? can't be right as the que is misspelt. ¡Que no! would be fine.

No, what JF said is that he thinks "¿que no?" could be short for "¿Me dices que no?". In that case, "que" is the conjunction, not the interrogative adjective/a pronoun "qué".

Though I guess the real arbiter is the Academy (if it has spoken) or
educated usage, not grammatical analysis.

--
Jerry Friedman

Jerry Friedman

2017-04-19 16:33:50 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think.

I'm not sure whether you heard "¿Que no?" in situations
where it meant "Duh!". If so, it might be a vernacularism
for "¡Cómo no!" and it would indeed be spelled "¿Qué no?".

...

I don't remember hearing it like that. I mostly remember hearing
it as straightforwardly asking whether the listener disagrees,
though I've heard it once or twice as a demand for agreement or
compliance.

--
Jerry Friedman

Lewis

2017-04-19 02:07:37 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think.

Around here I think it often means real uncertainty.

There's a difference between ¿porqué no? (why not, just as in English),
and ¿qué no? (no real equivalent in English). The latter can be used,
IIRC, to express anything from bemusement to (grudging?) acceptance.

--
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Jerry Friedman

2017-04-19 16:39:12 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think.

Around here I think it often means real uncertainty.

There's a difference between ¿porqué no? (why not, just as in English),
and ¿qué no? (no real equivalent in English).

I'm not talking about "¿porqué no?" at all. I've heard ¿que no?
mostly as something very similar to one meaning of English "right?".

Me: What equation do we use to solve this problem?

Student: F=ma, ¿que no?

Post by Lewis
The latter can be used,
IIRC, to express anything from bemusement to (grudging?) acceptance.

It may be used somewhat differently in New Mexico than in Old
Mexico. I don't remember hearing it with either of those meanings.

--
Jerry Friedman

Lewis

2017-04-20 13:15:03 UTC

Post by Janet
So it is.

Innit.

Right?

N'est-ce pas ?
¿(No es) verdad?

Or just ¿no?

...
In New Mexico, "¿que no?" but people from other places think that's funny.

¿Qué no? I'd think.

Around here I think it often means real uncertainty.

There's a difference between ¿porqué no? (why not, just as in English),
and ¿qué no? (no real equivalent in English).

I'm not talking about "¿porqué no?" at all. I've heard ¿que no?
mostly as something very similar to one meaning of English "right?".

Didn't I already agree with that? (though I think of it as more similar
to the BrE regionalism "innit" which can be asking for assent, but can
also be something more along the lines of "no that's a question worth
asking and if you have any sort of response this would be the appropriate
time to grunt some agreement or disagreement as may fit the original."

Post by Jerry Friedman
Me: What equation do we use to solve this problem?
Student: F=ma, ¿que no?

Oh. That's something else. That's just "is it not so". I was thinking
more along the lines of

"Las mujeres! ¿que no?"

Post by Lewis
The latter can be used,
IIRC, to express anything from bemusement to (grudging?) acceptance.

It may be used somewhat differently in New Mexico than in Old
Mexico. I don't remember hearing it with either of those meanings.

--
“The female of all species are most dangerous when they appear to retreat.”
― Don Marquis

Jerry Friedman

2017-04-15 16:11:18 UTC

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is what I
think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common in some
registers of BrE.

Aint't that so.

So it is.

Innit.

Right?

*Like*

--
Jerry Friedman

Mark Brader

2017-04-15 22:27:52 UTC

Post by Peter Young
It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is what I
think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common in some
registers of BrE.

Aint't that so.

So it is.

Innit.

Right?

*Like*

Eh?

--
Mark Brader, Toronto "As for Canada's lack of mystique,
***@vex.net it is not unique." -- Mark Leeper

John Dunlop

2017-04-16 09:44:39 UTC

Post by Peter Young
It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is what I
think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common in some
registers of BrE.

Aint't that so.

So it is.

Innit.

Right?

*Like*

Eh?

You know.

--
John

GordonD

2017-04-16 18:48:03 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you do
after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?"
There was no one around who could confirm or deny the statement. It
could be that the person directed it at themself, but from the tone
of voice, I got the impression that it was rather meant like: "...
obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is what I
think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common in some
registers of BrE.

Exactly. The speaker might not even be aware he's doing it; it's like
ending every statement with "You know?"

--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

Jack Campin

2017-04-16 19:40:21 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you do
after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?" [...] from
the tone of voice, I got the impression that it was rather meant
like: "... obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is
what I think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common
in some registers of BrE.

Exactly. The speaker might not even be aware he's doing it; it's
like ending every statement with "You know?"

True, but it can also be delivered in a faintly threatening tone
to suggest the hearer better not have the temerity to disagree.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07895 860 060 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

bill van

2017-04-16 20:20:33 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you do
after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?" [...] from
the tone of voice, I got the impression that it was rather meant
like: "... obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is
what I think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common
in some registers of BrE.

Exactly. The speaker might not even be aware he's doing it; it's
like ending every statement with "You know?"

True, but it can also be delivered in a faintly threatening tone
to suggest the hearer better not have the temerity to disagree.

Is it used throughout British English, or is it a marker for class or
region?

--
bill

Sam Plusnet

2017-04-16 21:44:50 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you do
after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?" [...] from
the tone of voice, I got the impression that it was rather meant
like: "... obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is
what I think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common
in some registers of BrE.

Exactly. The speaker might not even be aware he's doing it; it's
like ending every statement with "You know?"

True, but it can also be delivered in a faintly threatening tone
to suggest the hearer better not have the temerity to disagree.

Is it used throughout British English, or is it a marker for class or
region?

In something like Midsomer Murders, it would be used to indicate a lower
class, poorly educated person reacting in a defensive & rather truculent
manner to what they saw as intrusive questioning.

--
Sam Plusnet

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2017-04-16 22:30:47 UTC

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you do
after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?" [...] from
the tone of voice, I got the impression that it was rather meant
like: "... obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is
what I think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite common
in some registers of BrE.

Exactly. The speaker might not even be aware he's doing it; it's
like ending every statement with "You know?"

True, but it can also be delivered in a faintly threatening tone
to suggest the hearer better not have the temerity to disagree.

Is it used throughout British English, or is it a marker for class or
region?

In something like Midsomer Murders, it would be used to indicate a lower
class, poorly educated person reacting in a defensive & rather truculent
manner to what they saw as intrusive questioning.

For dramatic effect, yes.

In real life I wouldn't be surprised to hear it from anyone reardless of
class or region. I'd think of it as a something specific to the
individual, their way of speaking.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

HVS

2017-04-17 08:17:48 UTC

On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 23:30:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people were
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did you do
after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?" [...] from
the tone of voice, I got the impression that it was rather meant
like: "... obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that hour?"
Does that make sense?

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is
what I think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite

common

Post by Peter Young
in some registers of BrE.

Exactly. The speaker might not even be aware he's doing it; it's
like ending every statement with "You know?"

True, but it can also be delivered in a faintly threatening tone
to suggest the hearer better not have the temerity to disagree.

Is it used throughout British English, or is it a marker for class or
region?

In something like Midsomer Murders, it would be used to indicate a lower
class, poorly educated person reacting in a defensive & rather truculent
manner to what they saw as intrusive questioning.

For dramatic effect, yes.
In real life I wouldn't be surprised to hear it from anyone

reardless of

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
class or region. I'd think of it as a something specific to the
individual, their way of speaking.

I'd say that even if said light-heartedly, it retains the implication
of adding "obviously" (or if you're a teenager, "duh") to the
statement.

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed

Harrison Hill

2017-04-17 16:41:18 UTC

Post by HVS
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 23:30:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Quinn C
In an old episode of Midsomer Murders, a number of people

were

Post by Quinn C
answering to questions from the police, like "and what did

you do

Post by Quinn C
after that?" in the form "I went home, didn't I?" [...] from
the tone of voice, I got the impression that it was rather

meant

Post by Quinn C
like: "... obviously, or what do you think I'd do at that

hour?"

Post by Quinn C
Does that make sense?

It does, but it isn't as complicated as that. "Didn't I?" is
what I think grammar experts call a filler, and is quite

common

Post by Peter Young
in some registers of BrE.

Exactly. The speaker might not even be aware he's doing it;

it's

Post by GordonD
like ending every statement with "You know?"

True, but it can also be delivered in a faintly threatening tone
to suggest the hearer better not have the temerity to disagree.

Is it used throughout British English, or is it a marker for

class or

Post by bill van
region?

In something like Midsomer Murders, it would be used to indicate a

lower

Post by Sam Plusnet
class, poorly educated person reacting in a defensive & rather

truculent