64 EMPLOYEES SAW NO STRANGER IN TSBD

Post by BOZ
https://books.google.ca/books?id=7jrKTKDhvfkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=TSBD+NO+STRANGER+RECLAIMING+HISTORY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiKn93-nqTbAhXEq1kKHZuwBl4Q6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=DANNY%20ARCE&f=false

Which does not prove that no stranger was in the building. While
everyone was watching the motorcade, shooters could have come in through
the loading ramp door and up the back stairs to the 6th floor. They could
have left the same way while everyone was watching the drama in the
street.

Chris

BOZ

2018-05-29 20:51:46 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

mainframetech

2018-05-30 19:47:24 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

Of course I can! Read a book called "The Men on the Sixth Floor", by
Collum and Sample. The authors say it is an eyewitness account of an
American Indian that was paid to join a group that snuck up to the 6th
floor with others and helped fire on the motorcade. 3 of them were
strangers, and they supposedly went in through the loading dock door, and
went up the back stairs while everyone was looking out for the motorcade.

If true, it is the story of an eyewitness to strangers in the TSBD.

Chris

Bud

2018-05-31 03:40:03 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

I read that. He said "UGH! White men shootum Big Chief with fire stick.
Heap big conspiracy!"

Post by mainframetech
3 of them were
strangers, and they supposedly went in through the loading dock door, and
went up the back stairs while everyone was looking out for the motorcade.
If true, it is the story of an eyewitness to strangers in the TSBD.
Chris

mainframetech

2018-06-01 02:57:23 UTC

Post by Bud

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

I read that. He said "UGH! White men shootum Big Chief with fire stick.
Heap big conspiracy!"

Typical LN attitude. When you have no evidence, attempt ridicule.

Chris

BOZ

2018-05-31 23:02:49 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

Of course I can! Read a book called "The Men on the Sixth Floor", by
Collum and Sample. The authors say it is an eyewitness account of an
American Indian that was paid to join a group that snuck up to the 6th
floor with others and helped fire on the motorcade. 3 of them were
strangers, and they supposedly went in through the loading dock door, and
went up the back stairs while everyone was looking out for the motorcade.
If true, it is the story of an eyewitness to strangers in the TSBD.
Chris

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS. THAT STORY WAS WRITTEN BY ANCESTORS OF SITTING
BULL.

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-01 20:37:51 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

Of course I can! Read a book called "The Men on the Sixth Floor", by
Collum and Sample. The authors say it is an eyewitness account of an
American Indian that was paid to join a group that snuck up to the 6th
floor with others and helped fire on the motorcade. 3 of them were
strangers, and they supposedly went in through the loading dock door, and
went up the back stairs while everyone was looking out for the motorcade.
If true, it is the story of an eyewitness to strangers in the TSBD.
Chris

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS. THAT STORY WAS WRITTEN BY ANCESTORS OF SITTING
BULL.

Well, it sounds like bull to me.
But I would not dismiss a story only because it came from a Native
Ameerican. But I don't think this story came from a Native American.
I think it came from a kook and liar.

mainframetech

2018-06-02 01:12:09 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

Of course I can! Read a book called "The Men on the Sixth Floor", by
Collum and Sample. The authors say it is an eyewitness account of an
American Indian that was paid to join a group that snuck up to the 6th
floor with others and helped fire on the motorcade. 3 of them were
strangers, and they supposedly went in through the loading dock door, and
went up the back stairs while everyone was looking out for the motorcade.
If true, it is the story of an eyewitness to strangers in the TSBD.
Chris

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS. THAT STORY WAS WRITTEN BY ANCESTORS OF SITTING
BULL.

Oh? You know the date of publishing?

Chris

bigdog

2018-06-01 20:17:29 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

Of course I can! Read a book called "The Men on the Sixth Floor", by
Collum and Sample. The authors say it is an eyewitness account of an
American Indian that was paid to join a group that snuck up to the 6th
floor with others and helped fire on the motorcade. 3 of them were
strangers, and they supposedly went in through the loading dock door, and
went up the back stairs while everyone was looking out for the motorcade.
If true, it is the story of an eyewitness to strangers in the TSBD.

We only have the authors' word that any of it is true.

mainframetech

2018-06-03 03:13:05 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

Of course I can! Read a book called "The Men on the Sixth Floor", by
Collum and Sample. The authors say it is an eyewitness account of an
American Indian that was paid to join a group that snuck up to the 6th
floor with others and helped fire on the motorcade. 3 of them were
strangers, and they supposedly went in through the loading dock door, and
went up the back stairs while everyone was looking out for the motorcade.
If true, it is the story of an eyewitness to strangers in the TSBD.

We only have the authors' word that any of it is true.

Given all the phony choosing of witnesses, the WCR is no better.
The problem is that many have decided that sooner or later some of the
people involved in the plot will let out the truth, so this is one of the
possible names doing that.

Chris

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-03 23:04:33 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

Of course I can! Read a book called "The Men on the Sixth Floor", by
Collum and Sample. The authors say it is an eyewitness account of an
American Indian that was paid to join a group that snuck up to the 6th
floor with others and helped fire on the motorcade. 3 of them were
strangers, and they supposedly went in through the loading dock door, and
went up the back stairs while everyone was looking out for the motorcade.
If true, it is the story of an eyewitness to strangers in the TSBD.

We only have the authors' word that any of it is true.

Given all the phony choosing of witnesses, the WCR is no better.

The WC is slightly better because they actually questioned witnesses
under oath rather than just guessing.

Post by mainframetech
The problem is that many have decided that sooner or later some of the
people involved in the plot will let out the truth, so this is one of the
possible names doing that.

Rather hard to do that when they're dead.

Post by mainframetech
Chris

Anthony Marsh

2018-05-30 19:47:59 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

Trying to prove negatives again? YOU are a negative.

BOZ

2018-05-31 23:03:16 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

Trying to prove negatives again? YOU are a negative.

MARSH YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT THERE WAS EVIDENCE OF A STRANGER WHO ENTERED
THE TSBD WITH OSWALD'S RIFLE. YOU HAVE ONLY FAKE CONSPIRACY NEWS. YOU ARE
ASSUMING AGAIN. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO SHAKE STEVE BARBER'S HAND FOR
DEBUNKING THE DICTABELT. WHY DON'T YOU GET AN AUDOGRAPH sic?

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-01 20:37:33 UTC

YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT A STRANGER ENTERED NOT COULD
HAVE ENTERED. SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT A STRANGER WAS THERE. YOU CAN'T.

Trying to prove negatives again? YOU are a negative.

MARSH YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT THERE WAS EVIDENCE OF A STRANGER WHO ENTERED
THE TSBD WITH OSWALD'S RIFLE. YOU HAVE ONLY FAKE CONSPIRACY NEWS. YOU ARE

No, I don't.

Post by BOZ
ASSUMING AGAIN. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO SHAKE STEVE BARBER'S HAND FOR
DEBUNKING THE DICTABELT. WHY DON'T YOU GET AN AUDOGRAPH sic?

Now you changed the terms. Because you realize you lost last time.

claviger

2018-06-01 00:50:33 UTC

What team of idiots would think of doing that? If for any reason DPD
officers responded quickly and locked the doors then this team of morons
is trapped inside the TSBD with no chance for escape. Did they all plan to
shoot their way out of the building? LHO was lucky because he had no
weapon on him when Baker confronted him. Another DPD with more experience
might have detained him until the search was over.

mainframetech

2018-06-02 01:10:14 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.

Chris

John McAdams

2018-06-02 01:11:59 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.

You should be asking "what idiot would *plan* a shooting that involved
getting a team into the Depository and then out again *after* the
shooting without anybody noticing."

I would be an absurdly risky plan.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

mainframetech

2018-06-03 03:12:49 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.

You should be asking "what idiot would *plan* a shooting that involved
getting a team into the Depository and then out again *after* the
shooting without anybody noticing."
I would be an absurdly risky plan.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Not so absurd. With the motorcade coming, everyone would be at the
windows waiting for the motorcade and not looking behind them for
strangers entering the building. And when leaving, the same thing would
be true. People would be at their windows watching the events unfold
after the shooting. And carrying at least one weapon who would want to
stop them and ask questions? If a car was waiting by the loading dock,
there would be a perfect escape, which was also described in the book.

Interestingly enough, there is also quite a story in a book called "The
Men Who Don't Fit in" by Roderick Mackenzie III. That book agrees with
the first book as to who was in the TSBD with Mac Wallace, LBJ's known
assassin.

Chris

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-03 23:04:43 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.

You should be asking "what idiot would *plan* a shooting that involved
getting a team into the Depository and then out again *after* the
shooting without anybody noticing."
I would be an absurdly risky plan.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Not so absurd. With the motorcade coming, everyone would be at the

Don't play into his hands like that. The CIA thought up plenty of absurd
plans and he can't deny them ALL.

Post by mainframetech
windows waiting for the motorcade and not looking behind them for
strangers entering the building. And when leaving, the same thing would
be true. People would be at their windows watching the events unfold
after the shooting. And carrying at least one weapon who would want to
stop them and ask questions? If a car was waiting by the loading dock,
there would be a perfect escape, which was also described in the book.
Interestingly enough, there is also quite a story in a book called "The
Men Who Don't Fit in" by Roderick Mackenzie III. That book agrees with
the first book as to who was in the TSBD with Mac Wallace, LBJ's known
assassin.
Chris

bigdog

2018-06-03 03:17:59 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.

Excellent point. How could anyone know in advance that there would be
vacant floors from which the sniper team could operate? Even Oswald didn't
know that but he had only one chance so he gambled and won. Bonnie Ray
Williams might have screwed up his plans if he had stayed on the 6th
floor. It's one of the fascinating what-ifs of the assassination. Would
Oswald have gone ahead with a witness on the floor. It's hard to imagine
he would have any qualms about killing BRW given he killed a cop a short
time later. Or maybe he would have moved to the vacant 7th floor.

A lot of things broke right for Oswald that day. Just having the motorcade
routed past his work place was a remarkable stroke of luck for him. He was
left alone on the 6th floor to do the deed. The weather cleared up
allowing the bubble top to be removed. It wasn't bullet proof but Oswald
wouldn't have known that and might have elected not to take the shot had
it been on the limo.

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-03 23:03:36 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.

Excellent point. How could anyone know in advance that there would be
vacant floors from which the sniper team could operate? Even Oswald didn't
know that but he had only one chance so he gambled and won. Bonnie Ray
Williams might have screwed up his plans if he had stayed on the 6th
floor. It's one of the fascinating what-ifs of the assassination. Would
Oswald have gone ahead with a witness on the floor. It's hard to imagine
he would have any qualms about killing BRW given he killed a cop a short
time later. Or maybe he would have moved to the vacant 7th floor.
A lot of things broke right for Oswald that day. Just having the motorcade
routed past his work place was a remarkable stroke of luck for him. He was
left alone on the 6th floor to do the deed. The weather cleared up
allowing the bubble top to be removed. It wasn't bullet proof but Oswald
wouldn't have known that and might have elected not to take the shot had
it been on the limo.

BTW, the 7th floor was also vacant and rarely used.
A professional might choose the roof.

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-03 17:39:01 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.

You should be asking "what idiot would *plan* a shooting that involved
getting a team into the Depository and then out again *after* the
shooting without anybody noticing."

And yet some WC defenders think that Oswald was part of a plan and he
got out without anyone noticing.

Post by John McAdams
I would be an absurdly risky plan.

How about the CIA's stupid plans to assassinate Castro?
Exploding sea shell?

Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

bigdog

2018-06-03 03:17:10 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.

What idiot would accept the word of a couple authors with absolutely no
corroborating evidence for their tale?

BOZ

2018-06-03 03:18:08 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.
Chris

PROVE IT. THE MEN ON THE 6TH FLOOR IS A WORK OF FICTION.

mainframetech

2018-06-04 00:10:56 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.
Chris

PROVE IT. THE MEN ON THE 6TH FLOOR IS A WORK OF FICTION.

Prove it! The book does NOT have the typical legal text that is
required on a work of fiction to protect the publishers and authors. The
authors state clearly that the book covers exactly what they experienced
and their dealings with Lawrence Loy Factor, the main witness in the book.

Many have thought that over time there would be some who had
information about the JFK murder, and they would after getting closer to
their death, have a need to let out the story. Factor was very sick and
died near the end of the writing of the book. A dying confession, in
effect. No reason to lie, and no effort to enjoy the attention.

Chris

Jason Burke

2018-06-04 22:14:32 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.
Chris

PROVE IT. THE MEN ON THE 6TH FLOOR IS A WORK OF FICTION.

Prove it! The book does NOT have the typical legal text that is
required on a work of fiction to protect the publishers and authors. The
authors state clearly that the book covers exactly what they experienced
and their dealings with Lawrence Loy Factor, the main witness in the book.
Many have thought that over time there would be some who had
information about the JFK murder, and they would after getting closer to
their death, have a need to let out the story. Factor was very sick and
died near the end of the writing of the book. A dying confession, in
effect. No reason to lie, and no effort to enjoy the attention.
Chris

And you *buy* this crap!?!

No wonder you can't figure out one of the simplest murder cases in history.

bigdog

2018-06-06 01:07:01 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.
Chris

PROVE IT. THE MEN ON THE 6TH FLOOR IS A WORK OF FICTION.

Who is conveniently dead. Name one item from that book that the authors
couldn't have made up out of thin air. Name one item from that book that
has corroborating evidence.

Post by mainframetech
Many have thought that over time there would be some who had
information about the JFK murder, and they would after getting closer to
their death, have a need to let out the story. Factor was very sick and
died near the end of the writing of the book. A dying confession, in
effect. No reason to lie, and no effort to enjoy the attention.

I'll bet the authors didn't record him saying any of this in his own
voice. How do you know it isn't the authors who are lying?

mainframetech

2018-06-07 01:04:14 UTC

What idiot would think that a team couldn't get away with entering,
firing and leaving the TSBD unseen? Because it happened and it worked.
Chris

PROVE IT. THE MEN ON THE 6TH FLOOR IS A WORK OF FICTION.

Who is conveniently dead. Name one item from that book that the authors
couldn't have made up out of thin air. Name one item from that book that
has corroborating evidence.

Any number of LN witnesses are dead too, so that's no point. However,
I've already pointed out the corroboration in the autobiography "The Men
that Don't Fit in" by Roderick Mackenzie III. There is also corroboration
in that there were 2 men with a gun in the 6th floor window, which matches
the eyewitness accounts of 3 people. So there's 2 matches. Of course, I
could have written the WCR if I was of a mind to. Like any writing from
'history', anyone can make it up.

I'll bet the authors didn't record him saying any of this in his own
voice. How do you know it isn't the authors who are lying?

How do you know the writers of the WCR weren't lying? In the memory of
Factor, the real world matched the statements exactly.

Chris

d***@gmail.com

2018-06-06 01:11:07 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.

No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!

Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

bigdog

2018-06-07 01:01:34 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-08 00:55:02 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Typical CIA plot.

mainframetech

2018-06-08 01:16:42 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.

Chris

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-09 01:42:12 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Even sillier is seeing the bullet hole in the forehead and claiming that
the shot came from behind.

InsideSparta

2018-06-11 02:06:09 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

"Our experts in the field of firearms identification analyzed the nearly
whole bullet, the two largest fragments and the three cartridge cases to
determine whether they had been fired from the C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano
rifle found on the sixth floor of the Depository. Two of these experts
testified before the Commission. One was Robert A. Frazier, a special
agent of the FBI assigned to the FBI Laboratory in Washington, D.C.
Frazier has worked generally in the field of firearms identification for
23 years, examining firearms of various types for the purpose of
identifying the caliber and other characteristics of the weapons and
making comparisons of bullets and cartridge cases for the purpose of
determining whether or not they were fired in a particular weapon. He
estimated that he has made "in the neighborhood of 50,000 to 60,000"
firearms comparisons and has testified in court on about 400 occasions.
The second witness who testified on this subject was Joseph D. Nicol,
superintendent of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation
for the State of Illinois. Nicol also has had long and substantial
experience since 1941 in firearms identification, and estimated that he
has made thousands of bullet and cartridge case examinations.

After making independent examinations, both Frazier and Nicol positively
identified the nearly whole bullet from the stretcher and the two larger
bullet fragments found in the Presidential limousine as having been fired
in the C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle found in the Depository to the
exclusion of all other weapons. Each of the two bullet fragments had
sufficient unmutilated area to provide the basis for an identification.
However, it was not possible to determine whether the two bullet fragments
were from the same bullet or from two different bullets. With regard to
the other bullet fragments discovered in the limousine and in the course
of treating President Kennedy and Governor Connally, however, expert
examination could demonstrate only that the fragments were "similar in
metallic composition" to each other, to the two larger fragments and to
the nearly whole bullet. After examination of the three cartridge cases
found on the sixth floor of the Depository, Frazier and Nicol concluded
that they had been fired in the C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle to the
exclusion of all other weapons. Two other experts from the Federal Bureau
of Investigation, who made independent examinations of the nearly whole
bullet, bullet fragments and cartridge cases, reached the identical
conclusions."

There's my proof. Where's yours?

mainframetech

2018-06-12 02:14:27 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And now I'll correct your statement. One of the X-rays shows a path of
tiny particles left in the wake of a bullet that passed through the brain
of JFK. The MC rifle fired FMJ type bullets, which were made not to break
apart in the body for the most part. The path of tiny particles are much
more likely to have been from a lead bullet or other than an FMJ type.

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
non-human things. For instance, the chrome bar on top of the windshield:

Loading Image...

Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments were found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

Post by InsideSparta
"Our experts in the field of firearms identification analyzed the nearly
whole bullet, the two largest fragments and the three cartridge cases to
determine whether they had been fired from the C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano
rifle found on the sixth floor of the Depository. Two of these experts
testified before the Commission. One was Robert A. Frazier, a special
agent of the FBI assigned to the FBI Laboratory in Washington, D.C.
Frazier has worked generally in the field of firearms identification for
23 years, examining firearms of various types for the purpose of
identifying the caliber and other characteristics of the weapons and
making comparisons of bullets and cartridge cases for the purpose of
determining whether or not they were fired in a particular weapon. He
estimated that he has made "in the neighborhood of 50,000 to 60,000"
firearms comparisons and has testified in court on about 400 occasions.
The second witness who testified on this subject was Joseph D. Nicol,
superintendent of the bureau of criminal identification and investigation
for the State of Illinois. Nicol also has had long and substantial
experience since 1941 in firearms identification, and estimated that he
has made thousands of bullet and cartridge case examinations.
After making independent examinations, both Frazier and Nicol positively
identified the nearly whole bullet from the stretcher and the two larger
bullet fragments found in the Presidential limousine as having been fired
in the C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle found in the Depository to the
exclusion of all other weapons. Each of the two bullet fragments had
sufficient unmutilated area to provide the basis for an identification.
However, it was not possible to determine whether the two bullet fragments
were from the same bullet or from two different bullets. With regard to
the other bullet fragments discovered in the limousine and in the course
of treating President Kennedy and Governor Connally, however, expert
examination could demonstrate only that the fragments were "similar in
metallic composition" to each other, to the two larger fragments and to
the nearly whole bullet. After examination of the three cartridge cases
found on the sixth floor of the Depository, Frazier and Nicol concluded
that they had been fired in the C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle to the
exclusion of all other weapons. Two other experts from the Federal Bureau
of Investigation, who made independent examinations of the nearly whole
bullet, bullet fragments and cartridge cases, reached the identical
conclusions."
There's my proof. Where's yours?

You've supplied proof only of 2 bullets having been fired by the MC
rifle. But you have NOT proven that either of them hit or hurt anyone.
I have long ago accepted that the bullet now labeled CE399 was from the MC
rifle, but it was not the original bullet from the day of the murder.
However, there is no proof that that bullet hit or hurt anyone either. I
have also accepted that the fragments in the limo (CE567 & 569) were also
from the MC rifle, But my statement was that no bullet from the MC rifle
hit or hurt anyone, and that no one can prove otherwise.

The bullet on the gurney was grabbed and passed to the bullet
custodian (Robert Frazier) who also was in charge of the testing of the MC
rifle the very next day, where they fired over 65 MC type bullets through
Oswald's MC rifle into various materials. That gave him a large stock of
expended MC bullets from Oswald's rifle. Later, there were complaints
form the public that the bullet in custody was not from the MC rifle, and
so they took it out and showed it to 4 men that hand handled that bullet
on the day of the murder. all 4 refused to identify the bullet, and one
of them even said it was the wrong shape. That the original bullet was
'pointy nosed' and this current bullet was 'round nosed'!

If the goal was to implicate Oswald in firing his rifle into the
motorcade, proving that the bullet that was on the gurney might help in
doing that. I believe the bullet custodian switched the original bullet
for one of the test bullets he had from the testing of the MC rifle. I
didn't think that at first until I heard that the exact same problem of
identification of the Walker bullet occurred! That bullet was described
by 2 detectives as being STEEL jacketed, but when the bullet custodian
unsealed the Walker evidence box after Dec. 4th, he said the Walker bullet
was suddenly COPPER jacketed! It was described originally as being too
damaged to determine caliber, and match it to a rifle barrel, but later
when the custodian opened the evidence box, the bullet (now Copper
jacketed) was not too damaged to determine caliber, and they had enough
material to match to a barrel, though they didn't do that test.

To me, it's obvious that the bullet custodian was in a perfect
position to substitute his test bullets from the MC rifle for the bullets
in the 2 cases, so that Oswald would be implicated in both cases.

Finally, the supposed gurney bullet (CE399) is shown below next to a
test bullet. They both had a slight bend in the middle and a slight
flattening there too, and they both had a bit of the material missing form
the tail end. The test bullet is CE572:

Loading Image...

Chris

InsideSparta

2018-06-12 21:23:44 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments were found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

Actually, the two fragments found in the front area of the car are perfect
to have be the remains of the bullet that struck the presidents head,
especially a shot from behind. The bullet found on the gurney most
definitely had hit something, as it was flattened, and carries the
characteristics of a 6.5mm bullet having pierced soft tissue, then tumbled
and struck flesh while in a tumbling mode.

You can't prove the fragments came from a bullet that only hit the
interior windshield chrome. On the other hand, we have a shot to the head,
from the rear, causing a bullet to break apart, and fragments of a bullet
that were fired from the rifle found on the 6th floor of the TSBD. If you
insist on dismissing that evidence, with absolutely no ballistic evidence
of any other bullet striking the president in the head, then I really can
help you in your delusions.

Post by mainframetech
The bullet on the gurney was grabbed and passed to the bullet
custodian (Robert Frazier) who also was in charge of the testing of the MC
rifle the very next day, where they fired over 65 MC type bullets through
Oswald's MC rifle into various materials. That gave him a large stock of
expended MC bullets from Oswald's rifle. Later, there were complaints
form the public that the bullet in custody was not from the MC rifle, and
so they took it out and showed it to 4 men that hand handled that bullet
on the day of the murder. all 4 refused to identify the bullet, and one
of them even said it was the wrong shape. That the original bullet was
'pointy nosed' and this current bullet was 'round nosed'!

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

Post by mainframetech
If the goal was to implicate Oswald in firing his rifle into the
motorcade, proving that the bullet that was on the gurney might help in
doing that. I believe the bullet custodian switched the original bullet
for one of the test bullets he had from the testing of the MC rifle. I
didn't think that at first until I heard that the exact same problem of
identification of the Walker bullet occurred! That bullet was described
by 2 detectives as being STEEL jacketed, but when the bullet custodian
unsealed the Walker evidence box after Dec. 4th, he said the Walker bullet
was suddenly COPPER jacketed! It was described originally as being too
damaged to determine caliber, and match it to a rifle barrel, but later
when the custodian opened the evidence box, the bullet (now Copper
jacketed) was not too damaged to determine caliber, and they had enough
material to match to a barrel, though they didn't do that test.

This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

Post by mainframetech
To me, it's obvious that the bullet custodian was in a perfect
position to substitute his test bullets from the MC rifle for the bullets
in the 2 cases, so that Oswald would be implicated in both cases.

Again, you're providing your opinion, without any credible evidence your
fantasy ever occurred.

Post by mainframetech
Finally, the supposed gurney bullet (CE399) is shown below next to a
test bullet. They both had a slight bend in the middle and a slight
flattening there too, and they both had a bit of the material missing form
http://grassyknoll.us/sites/default/files/images/Bullets/Test%20Bullets.jpg
Chris

Rather than try and poke holes in the evidence that both shots that struck
Kennedy and Connolly came from Oswald's MC, produce credible ballistic
evidence that proves they were struck by a bullet fired from a different
weapon, from a location other than the 6th floor SE window of the TSBD. If
you can't do that, just admit you have no credible evidence, and instead
have to hang your hat on your own personal opinions and beliefs.

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-13 14:53:00 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

So you dispute simple facts. Google it.
Or take a look at the WC tests. They would never lie to you, would they?

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Actually, the two fragments found in the front area of the car are perfect
to have be the remains of the bullet that struck the presidents head,

Then diagram the path.
If that is the bullet that caused the dent of the chrome topping, what
smasheed in the back of the rearview mirror? And do you also need an
additional bullet to hit the windshield? You never think through the
implications of your guesswork.

Post by InsideSparta
especially a shot from behind. The bullet found on the gurney most
definitely had hit something, as it was flattened, and carries the
characteristics of a 6.5mm bullet having pierced soft tissue, then tumbled
and struck flesh while in a tumbling mode.

Yes, like a bucket of water.

BTW, there was NO tumbling.

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

The bullet hole in the forehead.

Again, you're providing your opinion, without any credible evidence your
fantasy ever occurred.

Baloney!

mainframetech

2018-06-13 19:53:09 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

Don't be silly. I repeat things from experts, or I use physics and
common sense for some things. That includes the knowledge that FMJ
bullets are to stay together to do less damage to soldiers so that more of
them survive in wartime. And that lead bullets are made to expand and
sometimes come apart into small particles in a body. Better chance to
kill an animal, since they are often used for hunting.

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments was found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

Well, picture what you've just tried to describe, but in detail. You
are going to assume that the bullet originated in the 6th floor of the
TSBD and was fired downward at 45-60 degrees as per Humes the pathologist.

The bullet then hits the BOH at a spot that no one can see, even though
we have an autopsy photo of the BOH with NO bullet hole in it. The bullet
then blows out the right side of the head of JFK, which send sit on a
trajectory to the side of the limo. I don't know how it got to fire way
up to the top edge of the windshield! Face it. After a bullet comes out
the side of the head, it can't be going forward to the windshield, and it
didn't simply hover in air when leaving the head and turn toward the
forward direction and then politely fall into the front seat. That ;a
coincidence I'd pay to see!

You have a much better chance to have the bullet be aimed incorrectly
and fired too high, hitting the windshield chrome bar first and after
slamming itself into the metal bar, breaking up and falling straight down
because the chrome bar stopped its forward movement.

Here's the BOH 'leaked' autopsy photo to look at. You can see the
quality is just fine for seeing a bullet hole in the BOH, but no bullet
hole shows:

Loading Image...

Check all the areas that the pathologists tried to guess at where the
bullet entered the BOH. No bullet. But you can see the bullet in the
front of the head at the forehead/temple area clearly in a good quality
photo by simply ENLARGING the photo and looking under the hair hanging
down on the right side.

You just described what you THINK a bullet did with absolutely NO
proof that your guesses were correct. You are left with no proof of your
contentions. Saying a bullet did this or that mean nothing unless you
have some evidence that shows what happened. Now with the bullet hitting
the chrome bar over the windshield, it would \be normal for it to break up
and fall down straight to the front seat. With a bullet hitting the BOH
(where there is no hole to prove it) it would go off to the side, and not
forward, hover over the front seat and fall down to it.

So the simple logic says that bullet couldn't do what you want it to
do, but it could do what I said it did. So perhaps you would need the
help instead of me.

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

It was a place holder for the test bullet that would implicate Oswald
which became CE399. I'm sure the bullet custodian destroyed it after
doing the replacement with a test bullet.

This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

The testing of the MC rifle which was done the very next day is part
of the official record. If needed I can get the sworn testimony of
Frazier saying he did that testing. And the testing would leave him with
a certain number of test bullets which is obvious.

Again, you're providing your opinion, without any credible evidence your
fantasy ever occurred.

there is credible evidence in that the same exact problem occurred
with the Walker bullet, which also could NOT be identified by Walker
himself, even though he got a good look at it at his house. Same
situation for the MC rifle bullet. N one would identify it of the 4 men
that had handled it. A nd2 of them were SS agents, who know to mark a
bullet when they handle it as evidence.

It is circumstantial evidence, but beyond coincidence.

Post by mainframetech
Finally, the supposed gurney bullet (CE399) is shown below next to a
test bullet. They both had a slight bend in the middle and a slight
flattening there too, and they both had a bit of the material missing from
http://grassyknoll.us/sites/default/files/images/Bullets/Test%20Bullets.jpg
Chris

You have to be joking! You presented NO EVIDENCE of anything and want
me to agree with you that I'm wrong. Does that make any sense to you?
You haven't proved a single thing and you think I'm wrong! Amazing!

Does it help if I can show you a bullet hole in the front of the head
of JFK in the forehead/temple area? Or wouldn't you have the courage to
look at it?

I've shown you (above) the photo of the BOH with NO BULLET HOLE in it,
so I can also show you the forehead/temple area with a nice round bullet
hole there. Whaddya say? Want to try it? Or too chicken?

Chris

InsideSparta

2018-06-14 23:57:35 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

If you can site an example in which an expert in analyzing x-ray photos of
head wounds has reviewed the x-rays and made a valid case that that the
path of the bullet which struck the president's head was from front to
back, then please provide that source. I'm not saying there isn't a
published opinion, only that I have not seen one. Enlighten me.

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments was found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

"No one can see" the bullet hole in the BOH? The three pathologists that
actually examined the body in person saw it, and documented it. Humes,
Finck, and Boswell all testified oath that there was a bullet hole in the
BOH. The review of the photos and x-rays by the HSCA also came to the same
conclusion. Your argument about the path of the bullet fragments is
exactly like the argument CT's used to espouse when discussing the path of
CE399 between it exiting Kennedy's throat and entering Connolly's back
(left turn, right turn in mid-air), which has shown to be a false
argument, as tests in which stand-ins were positioned to align with the
Zapurder film shows that a straight path between Kennedy's throat wound
and Connolly's wounds was not only plausible, the laser trajectory showed
that the path led straight back to the 6th floor window.

Post by mainframetech
You have a much better chance to have the bullet be aimed incorrectly
and fired too high, hitting the windshield chrome bar first and after
slamming itself into the metal bar, breaking up and falling straight down
because the chrome bar stopped its forward movement.
Here's the BOH 'leaked' autopsy photo to look at. You can see the
quality is just fine for seeing a bullet hole in the BOH, but no bullet
https://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/images/AutopsyBack2_thumb.jpg
Check all the areas that the pathologists tried to guess at where the
bullet entered the BOH. No bullet. But you can see the bullet in the
front of the head at the forehead/temple area clearly in a good quality
photo by simply ENLARGING the photo and looking under the hair hanging
down on the right side.

How do you know that the "leaked photo" wasn't somehow manipulated to
eradicate the entry wound in the BOH? I hate playing the Cinque card, but
the HSCA experts reviewed the autopsy photos, and they were satisfied that
the original report was correct in regards to an entry wound in the BOH.

Thank you for making my point by stating "saying a bullet did this or that
means nothing unless you have some evidence that shows what happened".
That's exactly your dilemma. You have no real evidence.

Post by mainframetech
So the simple logic says that bullet couldn't do what you want it to
do, but it could do what I said it did. So perhaps you would need the
help instead of me.

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

It was a place holder for the test bullet that would implicate Oswald
which became CE399. I'm sure the bullet custodian destroyed it after
doing the replacement with a test bullet.

Provide that bullet. Where is it?

This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

So what? Of course there were test bullets. Prove to me that one was
swapped with the bullet found on the gurney.

Again, you're providing your opinion, without any credible evidence your
fantasy ever occurred.

there is credible evidence in that the same exact problem occurred
with the Walker bullet, which also could NOT be identified by Walker
himself, even though he got a good look at it at his house. Same
situation for the MC rifle bullet. N one would identify it of the 4 men
that had handled it. A nd2 of them were SS agents, who know to mark a
bullet when they handle it as evidence.
It is circumstantial evidence, but beyond coincidence.

Post by mainframetech
Finally, the supposed gurney bullet (CE399) is shown below next to a
test bullet. They both had a slight bend in the middle and a slight
flattening there too, and they both had a bit of the material missing from
http://grassyknoll.us/sites/default/files/images/Bullets/Test%20Bullets.jpg
Chris

I can point to bullet fragments found in the car that have been proven to
be fired from the rifle found on the 6th floor, and that rifle proven to
be owned by Oswald. Where are your bullet fragments?

I have CE399, which was proven to be fired from Oswald's rifle as well.
Where's your pointy bullet?

Post by mainframetech
Does it help if I can show you a bullet hole in the front of the head
of JFK in the forehead/temple area? Or wouldn't you have the courage to
look at it?

I've seen the photo, and it doesn't change my opinion in the slightest.
The original autopsy pathologists found no such bullet hole in the
forehead, nor did the experts that reviewed the photos and x-rays of the
HSCA (which included the biggest critic of the autopsy report, Dr. Cyril
Wecht). Those that see a bullet hole in the forehead are no different than
those that see Badgeman in the Mooreman photo. People will see what they
want to see. Interpretations made from looking at a photo simply cannot
compare with the actual hands on examination that was performed at
Bethesda Medical Center on 11/22/63.

Post by mainframetech
I've shown you (above) the photo of the BOH with NO BULLET HOLE in it,
so I can also show you the forehead/temple area with a nice round bullet
hole there. Whaddya say? Want to try it? Or too chicken?
Chris

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-16 05:40:18 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

Here ya go. The path of the fragments in the head do not line up
correctly to have come from the sniper's nest.The blue line is higher
than the HSCA line in red.

Loading Image...

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments was found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

Post by mainframetech
So the simple logic says that bullet couldn't do what you want it to
do, but it could do what I said it did. So perhaps you would need the
help instead of me.

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

It was a place holder for the test bullet that would implicate Oswald
which became CE399. I'm sure the bullet custodian destroyed it after
doing the replacement with a test bullet.

Provide that bullet. Where is it?

This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

So what? Of course there were test bullets. Prove to me that one was
swapped with the bullet found on the gurney.

Again, you're providing your opinion, without any credible evidence your
fantasy ever occurred.

there is credible evidence in that the same exact problem occurred
with the Walker bullet, which also could NOT be identified by Walker
himself, even though he got a good look at it at his house. Same
situation for the MC rifle bullet. N one would identify it of the 4 men
that had handled it. A nd2 of them were SS agents, who know to mark a
bullet when they handle it as evidence.
It is circumstantial evidence, but beyond coincidence.

Post by mainframetech
Finally, the supposed gurney bullet (CE399) is shown below next to a
test bullet. They both had a slight bend in the middle and a slight
flattening there too, and they both had a bit of the material missing from
http://grassyknoll.us/sites/default/files/images/Bullets/Test%20Bullets.jpg
Chris

I can point to bullet fragments found in the car that have been proven to
be fired from the rifle found on the 6th floor, and that rifle proven to
be owned by Oswald. Where are your bullet fragments?

In the head.

Post by InsideSparta
I have CE399, which was proven to be fired from Oswald's rifle as well.
Where's your pointy bullet?

Where is your missed shot?

Post by mainframetech
Does it help if I can show you a bullet hole in the front of the head
of JFK in the forehead/temple area? Or wouldn't you have the courage to
look at it?

InsideSparta

2018-06-17 01:43:27 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

Here ya go. The path of the fragments in the head do not line up
correctly to have come from the sniper's nest.The blue line is higher
than the HSCA line in red.

What's the source of this x-ray diagram? Was is drawn up by someone that
knows what they're talking about; or was it drawn up by you?

Post by Anthony Marsh
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/rgbskull.gif

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments was found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

Post by mainframetech
So the simple logic says that bullet couldn't do what you want it to
do, but it could do what I said it did. So perhaps you would need the
help instead of me.

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

It was a place holder for the test bullet that would implicate Oswald
which became CE399. I'm sure the bullet custodian destroyed it after
doing the replacement with a test bullet.

Provide that bullet. Where is it?

This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

So what? Of course there were test bullets. Prove to me that one was
swapped with the bullet found on the gurney.

Again, you're providing your opinion, without any credible evidence your
fantasy ever occurred.

there is credible evidence in that the same exact problem occurred
with the Walker bullet, which also could NOT be identified by Walker
himself, even though he got a good look at it at his house. Same
situation for the MC rifle bullet. N one would identify it of the 4 men
that had handled it. A nd2 of them were SS agents, who know to mark a
bullet when they handle it as evidence.
It is circumstantial evidence, but beyond coincidence.

Post by mainframetech
Finally, the supposed gurney bullet (CE399) is shown below next to a
test bullet. They both had a slight bend in the middle and a slight
flattening there too, and they both had a bit of the material missing from
http://grassyknoll.us/sites/default/files/images/Bullets/Test%20Bullets.jpg
Chris

I can point to bullet fragments found in the car that have been proven to
be fired from the rifle found on the 6th floor, and that rifle proven to
be owned by Oswald. Where are your bullet fragments?

In the head.

Post by InsideSparta
I have CE399, which was proven to be fired from Oswald's rifle as well.
Where's your pointy bullet?

Where is your missed shot?

Post by mainframetech
Does it help if I can show you a bullet hole in the front of the head
of JFK in the forehead/temple area? Or wouldn't you have the courage to
look at it?

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-19 21:16:45 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

Here ya go. The path of the fragments in the head do not line up
correctly to have come from the sniper's nest.The blue line is higher
than the HSCA line in red.

What's the source of this x-ray diagram? Was is drawn up by someone that
knows what they're talking about; or was it drawn up by you?

I see that you've never done any research before. I combined the HSCA
drawing of the skull showing the path of the bullet with the autopsy
Lateral X-ray. Maybe the WC never showed it to you. The HSCA diagram of
the skull was done by Ida Dox. I drew a line through the fragments seen in
the X-ray. Notice that it is higher and slopes down more tha the bullet
path the HSCA suggested.

Post by Anthony Marsh
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/rgbskull.gif

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments was found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

Post by mainframetech
So the simple logic says that bullet couldn't do what you want it to
do, but it could do what I said it did. So perhaps you would need the
help instead of me.

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

It was a place holder for the test bullet that would implicate Oswald
which became CE399. I'm sure the bullet custodian destroyed it after
doing the replacement with a test bullet.

Provide that bullet. Where is it?

This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

So what? Of course there were test bullets. Prove to me that one was
swapped with the bullet found on the gurney.

Again, you're providing your opinion, without any credible evidence your
fantasy ever occurred.

there is credible evidence in that the same exact problem occurred
with the Walker bullet, which also could NOT be identified by Walker
himself, even though he got a good look at it at his house. Same
situation for the MC rifle bullet. N one would identify it of the 4 men
that had handled it. A nd2 of them were SS agents, who know to mark a
bullet when they handle it as evidence.
It is circumstantial evidence, but beyond coincidence.

Post by mainframetech
Finally, the supposed gurney bullet (CE399) is shown below next to a
test bullet. They both had a slight bend in the middle and a slight
flattening there too, and they both had a bit of the material missing from
http://grassyknoll.us/sites/default/files/images/Bullets/Test%20Bullets.jpg
Chris

I can point to bullet fragments found in the car that have been proven to
be fired from the rifle found on the 6th floor, and that rifle proven to
be owned by Oswald. Where are your bullet fragments?

In the head.

Post by InsideSparta
I have CE399, which was proven to be fired from Oswald's rifle as well.
Where's your pointy bullet?

Where is your missed shot?

Post by mainframetech
Does it help if I can show you a bullet hole in the front of the head
of JFK in the forehead/temple area? Or wouldn't you have the courage to
look at it?

mainframetech

2018-06-16 16:16:53 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

Offhand, I haven't seen that, but I also haven't spent any time
looking for it. You see, I have a valid case that there is a bullet hole
in the forehead/temple area of JFK. It can be seen by most people that
use the instructions to look for it. Given the location of the bullet
wound there, it's clear that the bullet would have to travel through the
brain and the odds are that it would use the path that was discovered by
some X-ray Technicians as if it came from the rear. In other words, the
path could be used for either direction.

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments was found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

Ah, nothing like 'proof' of something to work on. No problem.
First, we have the 3 prosectors. Remember that I'm a CT, and therefore
think it was a conspiracy. I believe the military pathologists got orders
before the body got to Bethesda to search for and remove any bullets from
the body, and to change the body as much as they could to look more like
it was hit from above and behind. The prosectors were forced to lie about
the results of the autopsy, but fortunately they were not the only ones
present, and I'll show you what was seen by others below. The body was
made to arrive at the morgue 42 minutes earlier than the press and the
family and agents. And they used that time to accomplish their orders.

Next, the hole in the BOH. Well, I will show you a photo supposedly
from the autopsy, that is plenty clear and it will show you the BOH and
you will not find any bullet hole there at all. And the positions that
Boswell and Humes stated were the location of that bullet hole in the BOH
is NOT there. Here's that photo. See if you can find the bullet hole.
Let me know if you do. And here's a hint, it's not the little red spot:

https://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/images/AutopsyBack2_thumb.jpg

Next, the path of CE399. I don't need to try and follow that path, since
I'm going to show you why the 'Single bullet' theory is just that, a
theory and not a fact. CE399 was said to have hit JFK in the upper back
and then passed through him and came out through a throat wound, and then
hit Connally. It was later found on a gurney at Parkland hospital. Now,
during the autopsy they were removing the organs and could see the pleura
which surrounds the lungs. Here's Paul O'Connor, Technologist, who was an
autopsy team member:

"O'Connor: We started out with a rigid probe and found that it only went
in so far. I'd say maybe an inch and a quarter. It didn't go any further
than that. So we used a malleable probe and bent it a little bit and found
out that the bullet entered the body, went through the intercostal
muscles—the muscles in between the ribs. The bullet went in
through the muscles, didn't touch any of the ribs, arched downwards, hit
the back of the pleural cavity, which encases the lungs, both front and
back. It bounced off that cavity and stopped. It actually went down and
stopped. Went through the ribs and stopped (photo 10). So we didn't know
the track of the bullet until we eviscerated the body later. That's what
happened at that time. We traced the bullet path down and found out it
didn't traverse the body. It did not go in one side and come out the other
side of the body. Law: You can be reasonably sure of that? O'Connor:
Absolutely. Law: It was just from the probe then? O'Connor: Oh yes. Law:
And these doctors knew that? O'Connor: Absolutely. Law: While it happened?
O'Connor: Absolutely."

From: "In the EYE of History" by William Matson Law, pages 40-41
Online: https://www.krusch.com/books/kennedy/In_The_Eye_Of_History.pdf

The bullet never left the body of JFK. The throat wound was a separate
wound, and Connolly was hit by one or more bullets that may have been
fired at JFK.

The other Technologist, James Jenkins, agrees with O'Connor. Even the
Autopsy Report (AR) says that the "pleura was INTACT", meaning nothing
penetrated it.

There are much more items of proof, but the above gives you the gist
of the situation, and that the SBT wasn't real. It was an invention of
some WC lawyers because there were too many wounds and not enough shells
in the TSBD.

There is no Cinque card here. Think what you've said. The plotters
wanted to prove there was a 'lone nut' killer that did the murder. There
absolutely HAD to be a bullet wound in the BOH from the 6th floor of the
TSBD, and Humes and Boswell stated under oath that there was such a bullet
hole there. The problem is that whoever was picking and choosing photos
missed the fact of no bullet hole and 'leaked' the photo as it was.
Instead of showing the medical panels the real photos they showed them
drawings made by Ida Dox, from the photos. Supposedly the family didn't
want anyone to view the real body and wounds. Now get ready to laugh.
Here's the drawing of the photo you just looked at:

Loading Image...

Look closely and you'll note the bullet hole which has magically
appeared in the drawing but isn't in the photo!

If they showed the medical panels that drawing instead of the photo,
anyone would think it was the bullet hole right where Humes said it was!

You just described what you THINK a bullet did with absolutely NO
proof that your guesses were correct. You are left with no proof of your
contentions. Saying a bullet did this or that mean nothing unless you
have some evidence that shows what happened. Now with the bullet hitting
the chrome bar over the windshield, it would be normal for it to break up
and fall down straight to the front seat. With a bullet hitting the BOH
(where there is no hole to prove it) it would go off to the side, and not
forward, hover over the front seat and fall down to it.

Incorrect. I have the point in the chrome bar where the bullet slammed
into it. Under the circumstances there isn't anything else that could
cause that dent, and the bullet that hit that spot would indeed fall down
to the front seat mangled.

Post by mainframetech
So the simple logic says that bullet couldn't do what you want it to
do, but it could do what I said it did. So perhaps you would need the
help instead of me.

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

It was a place holder for the test bullet that would implicate Oswald
which became CE399. I'm sure the bullet custodian destroyed it after
doing the replacement with a test bullet.

Provide that bullet. Where is it?

'Please' works well with me. However, as I just got through saying;
that bullet was probably destroyed by the bullet custodian. The CE399 is
in custody as if it were the bullet found on the gurney. Which it was
not.

This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

So what? Of course there were test bullets. Prove to me that one was
swapped with the bullet found on the gurney.

Where were you when I went all through that? I don't have any
eyewitnesses, but the replacement is the only thing that makes sense when
4 men that had seen the original bullet refused to identify it. 2 of whom
should have carved their initials into it to prove they had had it. And
then to have the exact same thing occur with the Walker bullet. The
bullet no longer looked like it did at the time of the crime.

Again, you're providing your opinion, without any credible evidence your
fantasy ever occurred.

there is credible evidence in that the same exact problem occurred
with the Walker bullet, which also could NOT be identified by Walker
himself, even though he got a good look at it at his house. Same
situation for the MC rifle bullet. N one would identify it of the 4 men
that had handled it. A nd2 of them were SS agents, who know to mark a
bullet when they handle it as evidence.
It is circumstantial evidence, but beyond coincidence.

Post by mainframetech
Finally, the supposed gurney bullet (CE399) is shown below next to a
test bullet. They both had a slight bend in the middle and a slight
flattening there too, and they both had a bit of the material missing from
http://grassyknoll.us/sites/default/files/images/Bullets/Test%20Bullets.jpg
Chris

I can point to bullet fragments found in the car that have been proven to
be fired from the rifle found on the 6th floor, and that rifle proven to
be owned by Oswald. Where are your bullet fragments?

Proving the fragments are from the MC rifle I agree with. That doesn't
prove that Oswald fired it into the motorcade. I believe the rifle was
used by another person in setting up Oswald.

Post by InsideSparta
I have CE399, which was proven to be fired from Oswald's rifle as well.
Where's your pointy bullet?

You don't really think the guy that did the replacement would keep it
around do you? However, we have the statement of the man who noticed that
the bullet was not the same bullet he had first handled, and 3 other men
that also refused to identify the CE399 bullet. As well, you've been
shown the almost perfect match between a test bullet and the CE399.

Post by mainframetech
Does it help if I can show you a bullet hole in the front of the head
of JFK in the forehead/temple area? Or wouldn't you have the courage to
look at it?

I would appreciate your telling me what you saw when you looked at the
'bullet hole'. While it's true that the pathologists did not report the
bullet hole, for obvious reasons, 2 members of the autopsy team did indeed
see the bullet hole and thought it might be from a bullet! One of them
was one of the pathologists, Finck. Here' the interview of Technologist,
James Jenkins:

"JAMES JENKINS RECALLS EVIDENCE OF A BULLET HOLE IN THE RIGHT TEMPORAL
AREA, IMMEDIATELY FORWARD OF, AND JUST ABOVE, THE RIGHT EAR: Jenkins
recalled the large posterior hole in JFK’s head, but also recalled
a small (approximately 5 mm in diameter) hole in the right temporal bone,
just forward of and just above the right ear. He saw this quite early in
the autopsy, and recalls that Dr. Finck saw this and commented on it. The
circumference was gray, which suggested to Jenkins the passage of a
bullet. He said that even Dr. Finck speculated that a bullet might have
caused this hole. However, none of the pathologists ever returned to this
site, nor did they discuss it any further."

From: https://insidethearrb.livejournal.com/10811.html

So you see, a pathologist (the more expert one) did indeed see the
bullet hole and thought it might indeed be a bullet hole. But he had
orders to prove something other than death by a frontal bullet wound, so
he had to let it go. It's OK though. I'm sure you didn't know about that
interview.

So what did you see when you looked for the bullet hole? I gather you
saw something, but you didn't say what.

Chris

InsideSparta

2018-06-17 20:29:04 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

So, just to be clear, you're admitting that you cannot provide a single
example in which an expert in analyzing x-rays of head wounds caused by
bullets has made a case that the bullet which struck Kennedy's head
traveled front to back?

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments was found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

You "think" it was a conspiracy and you "believe" the military
pathologists got orders to remove any bullets from the body; but you can't
prove either of those were the case. Correct?

Post by mainframetech
Next, the hole in the BOH. Well, I will show you a photo supposedly
from the autopsy, that is plenty clear and it will show you the BOH and
you will not find any bullet hole there at all. And the positions that
Boswell and Humes stated were the location of that bullet hole in the BOH
is NOT there. Here's that photo. See if you can find the bullet hole.
https://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/images/AutopsyBack2_thumb.jpg
Next, the path of CE399. I don't need to try and follow that path, since
I'm going to show you why the 'Single bullet' theory is just that, a
theory and not a fact. CE399 was said to have hit JFK in the upper back
and then passed through him and came out through a throat wound, and then
hit Connally. It was later found on a gurney at Parkland hospital. Now,
during the autopsy they were removing the organs and could see the pleura
which surrounds the lungs. Here's Paul O'Connor, Technologist, who was an
"O'Connor: We started out with a rigid probe and found that it only went
in so far. I'd say maybe an inch and a quarter. It didn't go any further
than that. So we used a malleable probe and bent it a little bit and found
out that the bullet entered the body, went through the intercostal
muscles—the muscles in between the ribs. The bullet went in
through the muscles, didn't touch any of the ribs, arched downwards, hit
the back of the pleural cavity, which encases the lungs, both front and
back. It bounced off that cavity and stopped. It actually went down and
stopped. Went through the ribs and stopped (photo 10). So we didn't know
the track of the bullet until we eviscerated the body later. That's what
happened at that time. We traced the bullet path down and found out it
didn't traverse the body. It did not go in one side and come out the other
And these doctors knew that? O'Connor: Absolutely. Law: While it happened?
O'Connor: Absolutely."
From: "In the EYE of History" by William Matson Law, pages 40-41
Online: https://www.krusch.com/books/kennedy/In_The_Eye_Of_History.pdf
The bullet never left the body of JFK. The throat wound was a separate
wound, and Connolly was hit by one or more bullets that may have been
fired at JFK.
The other Technologist, James Jenkins, agrees with O'Connor. Even the
Autopsy Report (AR) says that the "pleura was INTACT", meaning nothing
penetrated it.
There are much more items of proof, but the above gives you the gist
of the situation, and that the SBT wasn't real. It was an invention of
some WC lawyers because there were too many wounds and not enough shells
in the TSBD.

There's no credible evidence of a conspiracy. In order for your theories
and opinions to become fact, there would have had to have been literally
dozens of people involved, from different factions of local, state, and
the federal government (CIA, military, SSA, DPD, DSO, etc. etc.). 54 years
later and no credible evidence of this massive conspiracy has ever come to
surface. It's a fairy tale.

There is no Cinque card here. Think what you've said. The plotters
wanted to prove there was a 'lone nut' killer that did the murder. There
absolutely HAD to be a bullet wound in the BOH from the 6th floor of the
TSBD, and Humes and Boswell stated under oath that there was such a bullet
hole there. The problem is that whoever was picking and choosing photos
missed the fact of no bullet hole and 'leaked' the photo as it was.
Instead of showing the medical panels the real photos they showed them
drawings made by Ida Dox, from the photos. Supposedly the family didn't
want anyone to view the real body and wounds. Now get ready to laugh.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1eAF6xNtTsY/T6b3bOQ7wgI/AAAAAAAAIkk/sfjIkGhcrRQ/s702/Dox-Drawing-Of-JFK-Autopsy-Photo.jpg
Look closely and you'll note the bullet hole which has magically
appeared in the drawing but isn't in the photo!
If they showed the medical panels that drawing instead of the photo,
anyone would think it was the bullet hole right where Humes said it was!

You just described what you THINK a bullet did with absolutely NO
proof that your guesses were correct. You are left with no proof of your
contentions. Saying a bullet did this or that mean nothing unless you
have some evidence that shows what happened. Now with the bullet hitting
the chrome bar over the windshield, it would be normal for it to break up
and fall down straight to the front seat. With a bullet hitting the BOH
(where there is no hole to prove it) it would go off to the side, and not
forward, hover over the front seat and fall down to it.

Post by mainframetech
So the simple logic says that bullet couldn't do what you want it to
do, but it could do what I said it did. So perhaps you would need the
help instead of me.

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

It was a place holder for the test bullet that would implicate Oswald
which became CE399. I'm sure the bullet custodian destroyed it after
doing the replacement with a test bullet.

Provide that bullet. Where is it?

I could've gotten on my hands and knees and begged you with pretty please
to provide that pointy bullet, and you wouldn't be able to do so. Those
nasty boogie men threw it away.

This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

So what? Of course there were test bullets. Prove to me that one was
swapped with the bullet found on the gurney.

You don't have any eyewitnesses? Now there's a shock.

Again, you're providing your opinion, without any credible evidence your
fantasy ever occurred.

there is credible evidence in that the same exact problem occurred
with the Walker bullet, which also could NOT be identified by Walker
himself, even though he got a good look at it at his house. Same
situation for the MC rifle bullet. N one would identify it of the 4 men
that had handled it. A nd2 of them were SS agents, who know to mark a
bullet when they handle it as evidence.
It is circumstantial evidence, but beyond coincidence.

Post by mainframetech
Finally, the supposed gurney bullet (CE399) is shown below next to a
test bullet. They both had a slight bend in the middle and a slight
flattening there too, and they both had a bit of the material missing from
http://grassyknoll.us/sites/default/files/images/Bullets/Test%20Bullets.jpg
Chris

I can point to bullet fragments found in the car that have been proven to
be fired from the rifle found on the 6th floor, and that rifle proven to
be owned by Oswald. Where are your bullet fragments?

Proving the fragments are from the MC rifle I agree with. That doesn't
prove that Oswald fired it into the motorcade. I believe the rifle was
used by another person in setting up Oswald.

Well, it was Oswald that was seen on the 6th floor during the lunch break
by Charles Givens. It was Oswald's rifle that was found on the 6th floor
and fired the bullets that produced the fragments found in the limo. No
other strangers were seen in TSBD on the day of the assassination, save
one old guy that needed to use the restroom. If Oswald had chosen to watch
the motorcade from the 5th floor with Jarmin, Williams, and Norman, or
gone outside with the other TSBD employees, then his being set-up by
conspirators to be the fall guy would have been blown out of the water
completely. If Oswald had really been in the 2nd floor lunchroom at the
time of the assassination, and just one additional employee in the
building had chosen to skip the motorcade and had eaten their lunch in
that room, Oswald would have had an alibi. Do you really think the
conspirators that set-up Oswald just simply gambled that there wouldn't be
anyone else in the lunchroom, or that Oswald wouldn't position himself
among other motorcade spectators? Did these evil conspirator really just
get lucky that Oswald chose to ride back to Irving on Thursday to pick-up
curtain rods? When exactly did these conspirators steal Oswald's rifle
from the Paine garage? How did they even know Oswald had a rifle or where
exactly it was being stored?

Hmm. Shooters that nobody sees, firing bullets that nobody can find any
evidence of. That's a hell of a case you have. Good luck actually proving
it.

Post by InsideSparta
I have CE399, which was proven to be fired from Oswald's rifle as well.
Where's your pointy bullet?

Post by mainframetech
Does it help if I can show you a bullet hole in the front of the head
of JFK in the forehead/temple area? Or wouldn't you have the courage to
look at it?

I would appreciate your telling me what you saw when you looked at the
'bullet hole'. While it's true that the pathologists did not report the
bullet hole, for obvious reasons, 2 members of the autopsy team did indeed
see the bullet hole and thought it might be from a bullet! One of them
was one of the pathologists, Finck. Here' the interview of Technologist,
"JAMES JENKINS RECALLS EVIDENCE OF A BULLET HOLE IN THE RIGHT TEMPORAL
AREA, IMMEDIATELY FORWARD OF, AND JUST ABOVE, THE RIGHT EAR: Jenkins
recalled the large posterior hole in JFK’s head, but also recalled
a small (approximately 5 mm in diameter) hole in the right temporal bone,
just forward of and just above the right ear. He saw this quite early in
the autopsy, and recalls that Dr. Finck saw this and commented on it. The
circumference was gray, which suggested to Jenkins the passage of a
bullet. He said that even Dr. Finck speculated that a bullet might have
caused this hole. However, none of the pathologists ever returned to this
site, nor did they discuss it any further."
From: https://insidethearrb.livejournal.com/10811.html
So you see, a pathologist (the more expert one) did indeed see the
bullet hole and thought it might indeed be a bullet hole. But he had
orders to prove something other than death by a frontal bullet wound, so
he had to let it go. It's OK though. I'm sure you didn't know about that
interview.

So what did you see when you looked for the bullet hole? I gather you
saw something, but you didn't say what.
Chris

mainframetech

2018-06-18 18:24:12 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

How many do you think are out there? They followed the Autopsy Report
(AR) which said it was a bullet to the BOH, which I've proven wasn't true.
So if the bullet didn't hit the BOH, but the POTUS died from a head wound,
then the obvious thing is if there is a bullet wound in the forehead, then
that's the cause of death. It was small in the photo so the medical
panels (if they looked at the photos) didn't see the wound, and just went
with the AR.

I'm surprised that when you were shown the photo of the BOH, it didn't
tell you anything since there's no bullet hole there. And the area shown
covers the area the prosectors said was the location of the bullet entry.

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments was found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

You "think" it was a conspiracy and you "believe" the military
pathologists got orders to remove any bullets from the body; but you can't
prove either of those were the case. Correct?

WRONG! The 2 X-ray Technicians stated that the pathologists anted to
find bullets in the body, and they used the X-rays first all over the body
to find them. As to removal of bullets, there was a small thin little
wound in the throat that was a tracheotomy. Later after the body arrived
at Bethesda, the throat wound was enlarged into a messy large wound much
worse than when it was made at Parkland. That could only be the searching
for the bullet that hit the throat.

There's no credible evidence of a conspiracy.

That's your opinion. The evidence is clear. When the bullet was shown
to have not gone through the body of JFK, it was clear right then there
was no SBT.

Post by InsideSparta
In order for your theories
and opinions to become fact, there would have had to have been literally
dozens of people involved, from different factions of local, state, and
the federal government (CIA, military, SSA, DPD, DSO, etc. etc.). 54 years
later and no credible evidence of this massive conspiracy has ever come to
surface. It's a fairy tale.

I'm not working from theories or opinions, I'm working from evidence
that is clear. That phony story about so many plotters is baloney, and is
a typical LN try at invalidating the evidence. My guess is about 20
people up front and 30 after the shooting were enough to do the job.
Others that may have helped didn't know there was a plot, they simply
followed orders and were not in on the plot. Someone told you there was
nothing new in 54 years and you believed it and are spouting it now. In
actuality, there was a great amount of information that came out of the
ARRB work. As well, the bullet hole in the forehead/temple area is a clue
that changes everything.

There is no Cinque card here. Think what you've said. The plotters
wanted to prove there was a 'lone nut' killer that did the murder. There
absolutely HAD to be a bullet wound in the BOH from the 6th floor of the
TSBD, and Humes and Boswell stated under oath that there was such a bullet
hole there. The problem is that whoever was picking and choosing photos
missed the fact of no bullet hole and 'leaked' the photo as it was.
Instead of showing the medical panels the real photos they showed them
drawings made by Ida Dox, from the photos. Supposedly the family didn't
want anyone to view the real body and wounds. Now get ready to laugh.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1eAF6xNtTsY/T6b3bOQ7wgI/AAAAAAAAIkk/sfjIkGhcrRQ/s702/Dox-Drawing-Of-JFK-Autopsy-Photo.jpg
Look closely and you'll note the bullet hole which has magically
appeared in the drawing but isn't in the photo!
If they showed the medical panels that drawing instead of the photo,
anyone would think it was the bullet hole right where Humes said it was!

You just described what you THINK a bullet did with absolutely NO
proof that your guesses were correct. You are left with no proof of your
contentions. Saying a bullet did this or that mean nothing unless you
have some evidence that shows what happened. Now with the bullet hitting
the chrome bar over the windshield, it would be normal for it to break up
and fall down straight to the front seat. With a bullet hitting the BOH
(where there is no hole to prove it) it would go off to the side, and not
forward, hover over the front seat and fall down to it.

Post by mainframetech
So the simple logic says that bullet couldn't do what you want it to
do, but it could do what I said it did. So perhaps you would need the
help instead of me.

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

It was a place holder for the test bullet that would implicate Oswald
which became CE399. I'm sure the bullet custodian destroyed it after
doing the replacement with a test bullet.

Provide that bullet. Where is it?

I could've gotten on my hands and knees and begged you with pretty please
to provide that pointy bullet, and you wouldn't be able to do so. Those
nasty boogie men threw it away.

The plotters weren't stupid. Their plot worked and the proof is your
unmoving attempt to prove the evidence isn't the evidence. Do you really
think a plotter would replace the CE399 bullet and then keep the real
bullet? I don't think so.

This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

So what? Of course there were test bullets. Prove to me that one was
swapped with the bullet found on the gurney.

You don't have any eyewitnesses? Now there's a shock.

WRONG again! There were four witnesses to the bullet in custody
(CE399) NOT being the original bullet they had handled. In the Walker
case, Walker himself was a witness that stated that the bullet that came
out of the evidence box was NOT the original; bullet he had seen. That's
another witness. So there's 5 witnesses. Walker actually complained to
the authorities to withdraw the bullet they had shown in the newspaper
because it wasn't the right bullet!Amazing how you dismissed the
eyewitnesses to try and prove your case.

Again, you're providing your opinion, without any credible evidence your
fantasy ever occurred.

there is credible evidence in that the same exact problem occurred
with the Walker bullet, which also could NOT be identified by Walker
himself, even though he got a good look at it at his house. Same
situation for the MC rifle bullet. N one would identify it of the 4 men
that had handled it. A nd2 of them were SS agents, who know to mark a
bullet when they handle it as evidence.
It is circumstantial evidence, but beyond coincidence.

Post by mainframetech
Finally, the supposed gurney bullet (CE399) is shown below next to a
test bullet. They both had a slight bend in the middle and a slight
flattening there too, and they both had a bit of the material missing from
http://grassyknoll.us/sites/default/files/images/Bullets/Test%20Bullets.jpg
Chris

I can point to bullet fragments found in the car that have been proven to
be fired from the rifle found on the 6th floor, and that rifle proven to
be owned by Oswald. Where are your bullet fragments?

Proving the fragments are from the MC rifle I agree with. That doesn't
prove that Oswald fired it into the motorcade. I believe the rifle was
used by another person in setting up Oswald.

Seeing someone during a lunch break doesn't say that person fired a
rifle into the motorcade. Oswald was also seen in the 2ned floor lunch
room only seconds after the shooting by Supervisor Truly and Officer
Baker. I agree that the shells on the floor were from the MC rifle and
the 2 bullets found on a gurney and in fragments in the limo were form the
same rifle. I also agree that the rifle was owned by Oswald. I don't
agree that he was at the window firing that rifle into the motorcade.

Post by InsideSparta
No
other strangers were seen in TSBD on the day of the assassination, save
one old guy that needed to use the restroom.

Not seeing a stranger does NOT mean that no stranger found their way
into the TSBD. When everyone was looking out the windows or on the stoop
watching for the motorcade, any one might come in the loading dock door
and walk up the stairs and not be seen. Same for after the shooting.
While everyone is watching the street to see all the action and whether
anything else was going to happen, the shooters from the 6th floor could
make their way down the stairs and out the loading dock door.

Interesting enough, a fellow named Richard Carr, was working on a
nearby building and saw a man on the 6th floor of the TSBD and he
described him as wearing a tan suit coat and with thick black glasses
frames, and dark complexion. Later when he was down on the street level
he saw a the same man leaving the back of the TSBD.

Post by InsideSparta
If Oswald had chosen to watch
the motorcade from the 5th floor with Jarmin, Williams, and Norman, or
gone outside with the other TSBD employees, then his being set-up by
conspirators to be the fall guy would have been blown out of the water
completely. If Oswald had really been in the 2nd floor lunchroom at the
time of the assassination, and just one additional employee in the
building had chosen to skip the motorcade and had eaten their lunch in
that room, Oswald would have had an alibi.

In reality, the FBI lied about the eyewitness named Carolyn Arnold and
her statement, but she heard about it from reporters in 1978 and gave her
correct story. She was leaving the TSBD for lunch at about 12:15pm, and
saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom at that time. At about that same
time there were 2 men seen in the 6th floor window with a gun by 3
witnesses, and if Oswald had tried to get to a window on the 6th floor,
they would object to him trying to take the window they had staked out for
themselves.

Post by InsideSparta
Do you really think the
conspirators that set-up Oswald just simply gambled that there wouldn't be
anyone else in the lunchroom, or that Oswald wouldn't position himself
among other motorcade spectators? Did these evil conspirator really just
get lucky that Oswald chose to ride back to Irving on Thursday to pick-up
curtain rods? When exactly did these conspirators steal Oswald's rifle
from the Paine garage? How did they even know Oswald had a rifle or where
exactly it was being stored?

There as no theft of the rifle, and there were no curtain rods. LHO
brought in the rifle himself, and probably used the paper cover to hide it
on the way in so the supervisor didn't see it.

Post by InsideSparta
Hmm. Shooters that nobody sees, firing bullets that nobody can find any
evidence of. That's a hell of a case you have. Good luck actually proving
it.

Lead bullets are hard to find when they hit concrete or other solid
material. However, there was a path of tiny particles left in the head of
JFK in one of the X-rays and that is not how FMJ bullets act. They are
made to avoid breaking up to save lives during wartime. So the bullet
that went through the brain was NOT an FMJ type bullet, meaning that
another rifle and bullet was used, and therefore it was a conspiracy, and
the MC rifle did not fire the kill shot. Of course, the bullet hole in
the 'stare-of-death' photo was proof of that anyway.

Post by InsideSparta
I have CE399, which was proven to be fired from Oswald's rifle as well.
Where's your pointy bullet?

Post by mainframetech
Does it help if I can show you a bullet hole in the front of the head
of JFK in the forehead/temple area? Or wouldn't you have the courage to
look at it?

I would appreciate your telling me what you saw when you looked at the
'bullet hole'. While it's true that the pathologists did not report the
bullet hole, for obvious reasons, 2 members of the autopsy team did indeed
see the bullet hole and thought it might be from a bullet! One of them
was one of the pathologists, Finck. Here's the interview of Technologist,
"JAMES JENKINS RECALLS EVIDENCE OF A BULLET HOLE IN THE RIGHT TEMPORAL
AREA, IMMEDIATELY FORWARD OF, AND JUST ABOVE, THE RIGHT EAR: Jenkins
recalled the large posterior hole in JFK’s head, but also recalled
a small (approximately 5 mm in diameter) hole in the right temporal bone,
just forward of and just above the right ear. He saw this quite early in
the autopsy, and recalls that Dr. Finck saw this and commented on it. The
circumference was gray, which suggested to Jenkins the passage of a
bullet. He said that even Dr. Finck speculated that a bullet might have
caused this hole. However, none of the pathologists ever returned to this
site, nor did they discuss it any further."
From: https://insidethearrb.livejournal.com/10811.html
So you see, a pathologist (the more expert one) did indeed see the
bullet hole and thought it might indeed be a bullet hole. But he had
orders to prove something other than death by a frontal bullet wound, so
he had to let it go. It's OK though. I'm sure you didn't know about that
interview.

So what did you see when you looked for the bullet hole? I gather you
saw something, but you didn't say what.

I see no comments in answer to my queries to you. Afraid to answer
because what it will prove?

Chris

InsideSparta

2018-06-19 21:30:40 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

How many do you think are out there? They followed the Autopsy Report
(AR) which said it was a bullet to the BOH, which I've proven wasn't true.
So if the bullet didn't hit the BOH, but the POTUS died from a head wound,
then the obvious thing is if there is a bullet wound in the forehead, then
that's the cause of death. It was small in the photo so the medical
panels (if they looked at the photos) didn't see the wound, and just went
with the AR.
I'm surprised that when you were shown the photo of the BOH, it didn't
tell you anything since there's no bullet hole there. And the area shown
covers the area the prosectors said was the location of the bullet entry.

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments was found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

You "think" it was a conspiracy and you "believe" the military
pathologists got orders to remove any bullets from the body; but you can't
prove either of those were the case. Correct?

There's no credible evidence of a conspiracy.

That's your opinion. The evidence is clear. When the bullet was shown
to have not gone through the body of JFK, it was clear right then there
was no SBT.

What I said was there would have had to have been "dozens of people". You
stated yourself that you think there were 20 plotters upfront and another
30 or so people after the assassination that were involved. Well, that
makes four dozen. So, I stand by my statement, which you agree with. Oh,
but wait. There's more! You also mention additional people who were not
aware of the plot, but were accomplices nonetheless, albeit reluctant and
forced to follow orders. So, we're talking about a lot of people, from
different parts of the country, and (as I previously stated) from
different levels of local, state, and federal government agencies. All
those people, some who were forced to help, and not a single one of them
has ever come forward with credible proof that they were a conspirator in
the assassination. If you really and truly believe that such a large
number of people could keep a secret like that, I have some beachfront
property in Kansas to sell you.

There is no Cinque card here. Think what you've said. The plotters
wanted to prove there was a 'lone nut' killer that did the murder. There
absolutely HAD to be a bullet wound in the BOH from the 6th floor of the
TSBD, and Humes and Boswell stated under oath that there was such a bullet
hole there. The problem is that whoever was picking and choosing photos
missed the fact of no bullet hole and 'leaked' the photo as it was.
Instead of showing the medical panels the real photos they showed them
drawings made by Ida Dox, from the photos. Supposedly the family didn't
want anyone to view the real body and wounds. Now get ready to laugh.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1eAF6xNtTsY/T6b3bOQ7wgI/AAAAAAAAIkk/sfjIkGhcrRQ/s702/Dox-Drawing-Of-JFK-Autopsy-Photo.jpg
Look closely and you'll note the bullet hole which has magically
appeared in the drawing but isn't in the photo!
If they showed the medical panels that drawing instead of the photo,
anyone would think it was the bullet hole right where Humes said it was!

You just described what you THINK a bullet did with absolutely NO
proof that your guesses were correct. You are left with no proof of your
contentions. Saying a bullet did this or that mean nothing unless you
have some evidence that shows what happened. Now with the bullet hitting
the chrome bar over the windshield, it would be normal for it to break up
and fall down straight to the front seat. With a bullet hitting the BOH
(where there is no hole to prove it) it would go off to the side, and not
forward, hover over the front seat and fall down to it.

Post by mainframetech
So the simple logic says that bullet couldn't do what you want it to
do, but it could do what I said it did. So perhaps you would need the
help instead of me.

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

It was a place holder for the test bullet that would implicate Oswald
which became CE399. I'm sure the bullet custodian destroyed it after
doing the replacement with a test bullet.

Provide that bullet. Where is it?

I could've gotten on my hands and knees and begged you with pretty please
to provide that pointy bullet, and you wouldn't be able to do so. Those
nasty boogie men threw it away.

No. I don't think a plotter would replace the bullet with CE399 and keep
it. I don't think there was a different bullet to begin with. Had
conspirators wanted to plant a bullet to frame Oswald on Connolly's
gurney, don't you think they would have planted one with more damage it to
it? You said "the plotters weren't stupid". How stupid would they have had
to have been to plant a bullet that skeptics would jump all over as
evidence of a conspiracy?

This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

So what? Of course there were test bullets. Prove to me that one was
swapped with the bullet found on the gurney.

You don't have any eyewitnesses? Now there's a shock.

Again, you're providing your opinion, without any credible evidence your
fantasy ever occurred.

there is credible evidence in that the same exact problem occurred
with the Walker bullet, which also could NOT be identified by Walker
himself, even though he got a good look at it at his house. Same
situation for the MC rifle bullet. N one would identify it of the 4 men
that had handled it. A nd2 of them were SS agents, who know to mark a
bullet when they handle it as evidence.
It is circumstantial evidence, but beyond coincidence.

Post by mainframetech
Finally, the supposed gurney bullet (CE399) is shown below next to a
test bullet. They both had a slight bend in the middle and a slight
flattening there too, and they both had a bit of the material missing from
http://grassyknoll.us/sites/default/files/images/Bullets/Test%20Bullets.jpg
Chris

I can point to bullet fragments found in the car that have been proven to
be fired from the rifle found on the 6th floor, and that rifle proven to
be owned by Oswald. Where are your bullet fragments?

Proving the fragments are from the MC rifle I agree with. That doesn't
prove that Oswald fired it into the motorcade. I believe the rifle was
used by another person in setting up Oswald.

Oswald was seen in the lunchroom by Baker and Truly approximately a minute
and a half after the shooting, which was proven to be enough time for
Oswald to have hidden the rifle and descended four flights of stairs.

Post by InsideSparta
No
other strangers were seen in TSBD on the day of the assassination, save
one old guy that needed to use the restroom.

Not everyone that worked in the TSBD watched the motorcade. Danny Arce
stayed inside, as did another worker. Neither of them saw anyone coming or
going. What would have the conspirators' plan if Jarman had stayed on the
6th floor? When Charles Givens went up to the 6th floor at around noon to
retrieve his cigarettes, he only saw Oswald (walking away from the SW
corner window). If Oswald wasn't the person that stacked the boxes around
the sniper's nest prior to the shooting (and his finger and palm prints
were all over them), then why didn't Givens see other people? Why didn't
poor innocent Lee Harvey Oswald see any strangers stacking boxes? How did
the conspirators know which floor would be empty? What guarantee would
they have had that any of the floors would be empty?

Post by mainframetech
Interesting enough, a fellow named Richard Carr, was working on a
nearby building and saw a man on the 6th floor of the TSBD and he
described him as wearing a tan suit coat and with thick black glasses
frames, and dark complexion. Later when he was down on the street level
he saw a the same man leaving the back of the TSBD.

Carr didn't come forward with his story until nearly three months after the assassination. He changed and embellished his story five years later during the Shaw trial, after he had a chance to hear Roger Craig's tale of the mysterious Rambler. Carr wasn't even credible enough to get a listen from the HSCA.

You banking on Arnold Rowland? Even his wife said he was notorious for
exaggerating the truth.

There as no theft of the rifle, and there were no curtain rods. LHO
brought in the rifle himself, and probably used the paper cover to hide it
on the way in so the supervisor didn't see it.

So, what other purpose would LHO have had to bring the rifle into TSBD,
wrapped in a paper sack, under secrecy (claiming the package was curtain
rods) other than to shoot the president? If the evil conspirators somehow
coerced or tricked him into bringing his rifle into the TSBD that morning,
they were certainly taking a big chance that something as simple as Buell
Frazier not going directly home on Thursday afternoon completely derailing
their plans to frame Oswald with his own rifle. Frazier's stepfather was
in the hospital at the time, and he actually didn't go straight home when
he was released from work on November 22nd. He went straight to the
hospital to visit his stepfather. He might have just as easily done so on
Thursday. Do you really think the plot to kill the president was left to
chance as to whether or not a 19 year-old kid, with a bad alternator on
his car, was going to be able to provide Oswald with a ride back to Irving
the night before to get his rifle? Get real. Oh, and how lucky it was for
those plotters that framed Oswald when he decided to leave his wedding
ring behind that morning after unsuccessfully begging his wife the night
before to move back in with him. My goodness those plotters led charmed
lives.

Post by InsideSparta
Hmm. Shooters that nobody sees, firing bullets that nobody can find any
evidence of. That's a hell of a case you have. Good luck actually proving
it.

Post by InsideSparta
I have CE399, which was proven to be fired from Oswald's rifle as well.
Where's your pointy bullet?

Post by mainframetech
Does it help if I can show you a bullet hole in the front of the head
of JFK in the forehead/temple area? Or wouldn't you have the courage to
look at it?

I would appreciate your telling me what you saw when you looked at the
'bullet hole'. While it's true that the pathologists did not report the
bullet hole, for obvious reasons, 2 members of the autopsy team did indeed
see the bullet hole and thought it might be from a bullet! One of them
was one of the pathologists, Finck. Here's the interview of Technologist,
"JAMES JENKINS RECALLS EVIDENCE OF A BULLET HOLE IN THE RIGHT TEMPORAL
AREA, IMMEDIATELY FORWARD OF, AND JUST ABOVE, THE RIGHT EAR: Jenkins
recalled the large posterior hole in JFK’s head, but also recalled
a small (approximately 5 mm in diameter) hole in the right temporal bone,
just forward of and just above the right ear. He saw this quite early in
the autopsy, and recalls that Dr. Finck saw this and commented on it. The
circumference was gray, which suggested to Jenkins the passage of a
bullet. He said that even Dr. Finck speculated that a bullet might have
caused this hole. However, none of the pathologists ever returned to this
site, nor did they discuss it any further."
From: https://insidethearrb.livejournal.com/10811.html
So you see, a pathologist (the more expert one) did indeed see the
bullet hole and thought it might indeed be a bullet hole. But he had
orders to prove so

bigdog

2018-06-20 18:12:47 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

And you attained your expertise on interpreting x-rays where?

How many do you think are out there? They followed the Autopsy Report
(AR) which said it was a bullet to the BOH, which I've proven wasn't true.
So if the bullet didn't hit the BOH, but the POTUS died from a head wound,
then the obvious thing is if there is a bullet wound in the forehead, then
that's the cause of death. It was small in the photo so the medical
panels (if they looked at the photos) didn't see the wound, and just went
with the AR.
I'm surprised that when you were shown the photo of the BOH, it didn't
tell you anything since there's no bullet hole there. And the area shown
covers the area the prosectors said was the location of the bullet entry.

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield. One of those fragments was found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

You "think" it was a conspiracy and you "believe" the military
pathologists got orders to remove any bullets from the body; but you can't
prove either of those were the case. Correct?

There's no credible evidence of a conspiracy.

That's your opinion. The evidence is clear. When the bullet was shown
to have not gone through the body of JFK, it was clear right then there
was no SBT.

There is no Cinque card here. Think what you've said. The plotters
wanted to prove there was a 'lone nut' killer that did the murder. There
absolutely HAD to be a bullet wound in the BOH from the 6th floor of the
TSBD, and Humes and Boswell stated under oath that there was such a bullet
hole there. The problem is that whoever was picking and choosing photos
missed the fact of no bullet hole and 'leaked' the photo as it was.
Instead of showing the medical panels the real photos they showed them
drawings made by Ida Dox, from the photos. Supposedly the family didn't
want anyone to view the real body and wounds. Now get ready to laugh.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1eAF6xNtTsY/T6b3bOQ7wgI/AAAAAAAAIkk/sfjIkGhcrRQ/s702/Dox-Drawing-Of-JFK-Autopsy-Photo.jpg
Look closely and you'll note the bullet hole which has magically
appeared in the drawing but isn't in the photo!
If they showed the medical panels that drawing instead of the photo,
anyone would think it was the bullet hole right where Humes said it was!

You just described what you THINK a bullet did with absolutely NO
proof that your guesses were correct. You are left with no proof of your
contentions. Saying a bullet did this or that mean nothing unless you
have some evidence that shows what happened. Now with the bullet hitting
the chrome bar over the windshield, it would be normal for it to break up
and fall down straight to the front seat. With a bullet hitting the BOH
(where there is no hole to prove it) it would go off to the side, and not
forward, hover over the front seat and fall down to it.

Post by mainframetech
So the simple logic says that bullet couldn't do what you want it to
do, but it could do what I said it did. So perhaps you would need the
help instead of me.

Where's your "pointy nosed" bullet?

It was a place holder for the test bullet that would implicate Oswald
which became CE399. I'm sure the bullet custodian destroyed it after
doing the replacement with a test bullet.

Provide that bullet. Where is it?

I could've gotten on my hands and knees and begged you with pretty please
to provide that pointy bullet, and you wouldn't be able to do so. Those
nasty boogie men threw it away.

This is another of the many fallacies of conspiracy hobbyist thinking.
Their alleged plotters had to be at once both extremely smart and
incredibly stupid. The really amazing thing is that people who made so
many mistakes still have managed to get away with it all these years. Such
is the world conspiracy hobbyists inhabit.

d***@gmail.com

2018-06-18 00:53:33 UTC

Post by InsideSparta
This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

Your comment above reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite movies,
"A Few Good Men".

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

bigdog

2018-06-18 16:45:40 UTC

Post by InsideSparta
This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

Your comment above reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite movies,
"A Few Good Men".
http://youtu.be/OZVYcpO6Mgk

I read a few weeks ago that Jack Nicholson's line "You can't handle the
truth" was adlibbed as were many of the iconic lines in classic movies.

mainframetech

2018-06-20 01:30:25 UTC

Post by InsideSparta
This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

Your comment above reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite movies,
"A Few Good Men".
http://youtu.be/OZVYcpO6Mgk

I read a few weeks ago that Jack Nicholson's line "You can't handle the
truth" was adlibbed as were many of the iconic lines in classic movies.

Actually, it's a clever sentiment, but we're not in court where what
you can prove is the rule. Here we're like amateur detectives trying to
solve a crime that has many side issues. Detectives can (and do) use
rumor and anything that helps in leading them to a guilty party, THEN they
will see about putting together proofs for a court.

As far as proving that more than 2 bullets were fired, there were too
many earwitnesses saying that AT LEAST 3 bullets were fired, and 3 shells
were found in the TSBD where many saw a rifle firing out the window of the
6th floor. So there is ample proof that more than 2 bullets were fired.
As to what was fried from Oswald's MC rifle, the bullet custodian (Robert
Frazier) stated in sworn testimony that he fired 60 or more test shots
with the MC rifle. So we have much more than 2 shots fired from the MC
rifle of Oswald's.

Now you might want to say that I took the wrong parameters of the
challenge to answer, but there was no specification that I speak about
only what was fired from the 6th floor window of the TSBD. My point being
that it's easy to talk and make comments, but one has to consider the
whole situation before blatting out.

There were many bullet strikes in Dealey plaza that day, and it said
there were far more than one weapon firing at the target. One person
actually tried to say that most of the 10 or more strikes were from
ricochets from a single bullet that hit JFK's head (in the BOH) and many
fragments came out the right side wound over the ear and then spread in
all directions to make those strikes. A silly effort to make the strikes
match the number of shells from the TSBD! The kind of mistake was made
when the WC lawyers realized they had too many bullet wounds for only 2
shells, so they concocted a 'single bullet' theory to allow one bullet to
make 7 wounds and hit bone twice.

Ridiculous!

Chris

bigdog

2018-06-20 19:13:04 UTC

Post by InsideSparta
This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

Your comment above reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite movies,
"A Few Good Men".
http://youtu.be/OZVYcpO6Mgk

I read a few weeks ago that Jack Nicholson's line "You can't handle the
truth" was adlibbed as were many of the iconic lines in classic movies.

Actually, it's a clever sentiment, but we're not in court where what
you can prove is the rule. Here we're like amateur detectives trying to
solve a crime that has many side issues.

The crime was solved over 54 years ago. Sorry you missed it.

Post by mainframetech
Detectives can (and do) use
rumor and anything that helps in leading them to a guilty party, THEN they
will see about putting together proofs for a court.

In your case, you've never moved beyond the rumor stage.

Post by mainframetech
As far as proving that more than 2 bullets were fired, there were too
many earwitnesses saying that AT LEAST 3 bullets were fired, and 3 shells
were found in the TSBD where many saw a rifle firing out the window of the
6th floor.

I've never taken the position that only two bullets were fired. We have
solid evidence of 3 thots. It was the consensus of the earwitnesses and
that matches to the number of spent shells in the sniper's nest. There is
no physical evidence of any other shots having been fired in Dealey Plaza
that day.

Post by mainframetech
So there is ample proof that more than 2 bullets were fired.

3 is more than 2.

Post by mainframetech
As to what was fried from Oswald's MC rifle, the bullet custodian (Robert
Frazier) stated in sworn testimony that he fired 60 or more test shots
with the MC rifle. So we have much more than 2 shots fired from the MC
rifle of Oswald's.

But only 3 were fired in Dealey Plaza.

Post by mainframetech
Now you might want to say that I took the wrong parameters of the
challenge to answer, but there was no specification that I speak about
only what was fired from the 6th floor window of the TSBD. My point being
that it's easy to talk and make comments, but one has to consider the
whole situation before blatting out.

In the whole situation, there is only physical evidence of 3 shots.

Post by mainframetech
There were many bullet strikes in Dealey plaza that day, and it said
there were far more than one weapon firing at the target.

Not a shred of physical evidence to support that statement.

Post by mainframetech
One person
actually tried to say that most of the 10 or more strikes were from
ricochets from a single bullet that hit JFK's head (in the BOH) and many
fragments came out the right side wound over the ear and then spread in
all directions to make those strikes.

Many fragments did come out of his head. Some of them were found on the
floor of the limo but those fragments were less than a whole bullet so we
know there were fragments that escaped the limo.

Post by mainframetech
A silly effort to make the strikes
match the number of shells from the TSBD!

Actually they don't match because the 3 shots fired from the TSBD made
multiple strikes. The single bullet his JFK and JBC in the back and went
on to strike JBC's wrist before coming to rest in his thigh. The bullet
that fragmented and exited from his head struck multiple places inside the
limo and likely went on to strike Tague.

Post by mainframetech
The kind of mistake was made
when the WC lawyers realized they had too many bullet wounds for only 2
shells, so they concocted a 'single bullet' theory to allow one bullet to
make 7 wounds and hit bone twice.
Ridiculous!

There weren't too many bullet wounds for 2 shots because one bullet made
numerous wounds.

mainframetech

2018-06-18 18:19:50 UTC

Post by InsideSparta
This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

Your comment above reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite movies,
"A Few Good Men".
http://youtu.be/OZVYcpO6Mgk
David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Yep. The answer to the comment is that much proof was shown, but LNs
must pretend there was none, and hasn't been for over 50 years. It's
typical knee-jerk reaction.

Chris

bigdog

2018-06-19 01:07:50 UTC

Post by InsideSparta
This isn't about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. Thus
far, you have no evidence to prove that a bullet other than two fired from
Oswald's MC was ever fired.

Your comment above reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite movies,
"A Few Good Men".
http://youtu.be/OZVYcpO6Mgk
David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Yep. The answer to the comment is that much proof was shown, but LNs
must pretend there was none, and hasn't been for over 50 years. It's
typical knee-jerk reaction.

Nobody needs to pretend that.

bigdog

2018-06-13 02:26:06 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

You're ignoring the fact the FMJ Carcone bullet fragmented badly which
pretty much shoots down this argument.

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg

You have demanded proof that bullets from the Carcano struck either of the
victims in the limo. So where's your proof a Carcono bullet hit the chrome
bar?

Post by mainframetech
Note that there were 2 fragments (CE567 & 569) that fell into the front
seat area of the limo, which would be perfect to be remains of the bullet
that struck above the windshield.

You're postulating. Where's your proof?

Post by mainframetech
One of those fragments were found to be
from the MC rifle, and I'm sure the other was more of the same bullet.
That removes one of the 3 shells fired from the TSBD. Others have not
been shown to have hit or hurt anyone. The bullet found on a gurney in
the Parkland hospital cannot be proved to have hit anyone. and a third is
missing. So as far as I'm concerned, my statement cannot be proven wrong.

You're statement can't be proven right either.

You've supplied proof only of 2 bullets having been fired by the MC
rifle. But you have NOT proven that either of them hit or hurt anyone.

So you're allowed to ASSUME one of them hit the chrome bar but we have to
prove they hit the victims. Typical.

Post by mainframetech
I have long ago accepted that the bullet now labeled CE399 was from the MC
rifle, but it was not the original bullet from the day of the murder.

Where's your proof. Oh, that's right. You aren't require to prove
anything. Only the LNs must do that and they must do that to standards of
proof that aren't required in any other case.

Post by mainframetech
However, there is no proof that that bullet hit or hurt anyone either. I
have also accepted that the fragments in the limo (CE567 & 569) were also
from the MC rifle, But my statement was that no bullet from the MC rifle
hit or hurt anyone, and that no one can prove otherwise.
The bullet on the gurney was grabbed and passed to the bullet
custodian (Robert Frazier) who also was in charge of the testing of the MC
rifle the very next day, where they fired over 65 MC type bullets through
Oswald's MC rifle into various materials. That gave him a large stock of
expended MC bullets from Oswald's rifle. Later, there were complaints
form the public that the bullet in custody was not from the MC rifle, and
so they took it out and showed it to 4 men that hand handled that bullet
on the day of the murder. all 4 refused to identify the bullet, and one
of them even said it was the wrong shape. That the original bullet was
'pointy nosed' and this current bullet was 'round nosed'!
If the goal was to implicate Oswald in firing his rifle into the
motorcade, proving that the bullet that was on the gurney might help in
doing that. I believe the bullet custodian switched the original bullet
for one of the test bullets he had from the testing of the MC rifle.

What you believe and what really happened are parallel lines. They will
never intersect.

Post by mainframetech
I didn't think that at first until I heard that the exact same problem of
identification of the Walker bullet occurred! That bullet was described
by 2 detectives as being STEEL jacketed, but when the bullet custodian
unsealed the Walker evidence box after Dec. 4th, he said the Walker bullet
was suddenly COPPER jacketed! It was described originally as being too
damaged to determine caliber, and match it to a rifle barrel, but later
when the custodian opened the evidence box, the bullet (now Copper
jacketed) was not too damaged to determine caliber, and they had enough
material to match to a barrel, though they didn't do that test.
To me, it's obvious that the bullet custodian was in a perfect
position to substitute his test bullets from the MC rifle for the bullets
in the 2 cases, so that Oswald would be implicated in both cases.

Well since you said it was obvious I guess no proof is needed.

Only CE399 has a flattened base which happened when it struck Connally's
bones.

mainframetech

2018-06-14 02:25:38 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

You're ignoring the fact the FMJ Carcone bullet fragmented badly which
pretty much shoots down this argument.

You might want to apply some thinking to this one. An FMJ bullet
going through a person is supposed to stay together, but when it slams
into a solid metal bar, I think it will wind up looking like CE567 & 569.

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg

You have demanded proof that bullets from the Carcano struck either of the
victims in the limo. So where's your proof a Carcono bullet hit the chrome
bar?

I guess you haven't been listening. It's not a guarantee, but the
odds are in favor of it, rather than trying to get away with a story that
a bullet was fired downward from the 6th floor, Hit a head and was sent
off going out to the side, and quickly made a 90 degree turn and hovered
over the front seat and then flopped down at that point.

You're postulating. Where's your proof?

I've given you the circumstantial proof, which is far more than you
have given for a downward bullet going out the side and flopping into the
front seat. You've mentioned a bullet doing impossible things and said
that's proof, which it is not.

You're statement can't be proven right either.

Don't forget this little conversation was started from my saying that
you cannot prove that any MC type bullet hit or hurt anyone. And so far,
I'm right.

You've supplied proof only of 2 bullets having been fired by the MC
rifle. But you have NOT proven that either of them hit or hurt anyone.

So you're allowed to ASSUME one of them hit the chrome bar but we have to
prove they hit the victims. Typical.

Post by mainframetech
I have long ago accepted that the bullet now labeled CE399 was from the MC
rifle, but it was not the original bullet from the day of the murder.

Where's your proof. Oh, that's right. You aren't require to prove
anything. Only the LNs must do that and they must do that to standards of
proof that aren't required in any other case.

What you believe and what really happened are parallel lines. They will
never intersect.

Well since you said it was obvious I guess no proof is needed.

Only CE399 has a flattened base which happened when it struck Connally's
bones.

Amazing how you were able to state that, since the firearms and
pathology experts were unable to say it. And the key point I made
remains, that you cannot prove that ANY MC type bullet hit or hurt anyone.
The flattening on BOTH the CE399 test bullet, and the CE572 test bullet
were the same. However, a flattening on a bullet does NOT automatically
say that the bullet hit a rib! That's your guess, but there's nothing to
prove that, as I originally said.

Chris

bigdog

2018-06-15 14:02:14 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

You're ignoring the fact the FMJ Carcone bullet fragmented badly which
pretty much shoots down this argument.

What does what you think prove?

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg

You have demanded proof that bullets from the Carcano struck either of the
victims in the limo. So where's your proof a Carcono bullet hit the chrome
bar?

I guess you haven't been listening. It's not a guarantee, but the
odds are in favor of it,

So we are expected to PROVE the Carcano bullets went through the two
victims but you are allowed to just GUESS for your theories. Typical of
your double standards.

Post by mainframetech
rather than trying to get away with a story that
a bullet was fired downward from the 6th floor, Hit a head and was sent
off going out to the side, and quickly made a 90 degree turn and hovered
over the front seat and then flopped down at that point.

You have enough trouble trying to explain your scenario, don't bother
trying to explain the one presented by the WC.

You're postulating. Where's your proof?

I've given you the circumstantial proof,

So bullet fragments found in the limo the two victims were riding in and a
whole bullet found at the hospital they were taken to is not
circumstantial proof that those bullet passed through the victims but your
guess as to what caused the dent in the chrome bar does constitute
circumstantial proof. More of your double standards.

Post by mainframetech
which is far more than you
have given for a downward bullet going out the side and flopping into the
front seat. You've mentioned a bullet doing impossible things and said
that's proof, which it is not.

There was an entrance wound in the BOH and an exit wound in the parietal
bone. That's what every knowledgeable person has concluded. Ballistic
matching proves that the fragmented bullet found in the limo and the whole
bullet found at Parkland were fired from the rifle found in the TSBD. That
is what most reasonable people would consider "circumstantial proof".

You're statement can't be proven right either.

Don't forget this little conversation was started from my saying that
you cannot prove that any MC type bullet hit or hurt anyone. And so far,
I'm right.

I guess when you are the one making the rules you get the outcome you
desire. You demand we PROVE that the recovered bullets went through the
victims but your scenario is valid if somebody else can't disprove it. Is
there no end to the double standards you employ. God forbid you should
ever adhere to the same standards of proof you demand from others.

If you were to adhere to the same standards you try to impose on us, the
burden would be on you to disprove that the recovered bullets went through
the victims. But of course you would never agree to play by your own
rules.

You've supplied proof only of 2 bullets having been fired by the MC
rifle. But you have NOT proven that either of them hit or hurt anyone.

So you're allowed to ASSUME one of them hit the chrome bar but we have to
prove they hit the victims. Typical.

Post by mainframetech
I have long ago accepted that the bullet now labeled CE399 was from the MC
rifle, but it was not the original bullet from the day of the murder.

Where's your proof. Oh, that's right. You aren't require to prove
anything. Only the LNs must do that and they must do that to standards of
proof that aren't required in any other case.

What you believe and what really happened are parallel lines. They will
never intersect.

Well since you said it was obvious I guess no proof is needed.

Only CE399 has a flattened base which happened when it struck Connally's
bones.

Bullets flatten out when they strike a hard substance and they flatten at
the part of the bullet that struck the hard substance. Usually that is the
nose of the bullet but not when the bullet tumbles.

Post by mainframetech
The flattening on BOTH the CE399 test bullet, and the CE572 test bullet
were the same.

Wrong.

Post by mainframetech
However, a flattening on a bullet does NOT automatically
say that the bullet hit a rib! That's your guess, but there's nothing to
prove that, as I originally said.

No, it indicates the bullet hit something hard enough to flatten it. That
could have been Connally's wrist bone.

Anthony Marsh

2018-06-16 16:28:19 UTC

You have to admit, no rational person would harbor the realistic
possibility of a clean escape when shooting the President of the United
States from an open window on the 6th floor of a building overlooking the
motorcade route while the president was surrounded with an intense
security force along with the many potential bystanders who could point
out the source of the shots.
No matter what precautions one might take - no matter how sly you think
you may be - you would HAVE to know that you had less-than-50% chance of
escaping that building. That is far too risky!
Even Oswald was caught within 90 seconds. If it weren't for a stroke of
tremendous luck, he would've never gotten out of the building. I'm
convinced that Oswald probably had a very fatalistic view about how this
was going to play out for him - and he wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in
the shed. A more sophisticated group of assassins would CERTAINLY
recognize the improbability of getting out of the building after doing
something so brazen from an open and highly visible window. You would
simply HAVE to expect that you would be noticed and the building sealed
off immediately. Now, I realize that didn't happen, but you couldn't have
predicted that nor counted upon it.

Even sillier is shooting at JFK from multiple directions and believing you
could blame it on one man.

Well, it worked! Many believed that only 3 shots were fired and all
from one place. Except that you can't prove that anyone was hit or hurt
by an MC type bullet.
Chris

Let me correct your statement. It is YOU who can't prove that anyone was
hit or hurt by a bullet OTHER than one fired from an MC rifle.

You're ignoring the fact the FMJ Carcone bullet fragmented badly which
pretty much shoots down this argument.

What does what you think prove?

Post by InsideSparta
On the other hand, it has been proven that Oswald's MC rifle fired upon
the motorcade.....

Yes, but fired on the motorcade doesn't mean anything was hit, except
http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/doc_fichiers/Impact_in_the_chrome_frame_redim.jpg

You have demanded proof that bullets from the Carcano struck either of the
victims in the limo. So where's your proof a Carcono bullet hit the chrome
bar?

I guess you haven't been listening. It's not a guarantee, but the
odds are in favor of it,

So we are expected to PROVE the Carcano bullets went through the two
victims but you are allowed to just GUESS for your theories. Typical of
your double standards.

You have enough trouble trying to explain your scenario, don't bother
trying to explain the one presented by the WC.

YOU speak for the WC? You haven't even read it. You can't even afford to
buy a copy.

You're postulating. Where's your proof?

I've given you the circumstantial proof,

It's not proof that CE 399 went through both men.

Post by bigdog
guess as to what caused the dent in the chrome bar does constitute
circumstantial proof. More of your double standards.

There was an entrance wound in the BOH and an exit wound in the parietal
bone. That's what every knowledgeable person has concluded. Ballistic

False. Show me the path. Do you claim the bullet exited intact?

Post by bigdog
matching proves that the fragmented bullet found in the limo and the whole
bullet found at Parkland were fired from the rifle found in the TSBD. That
is what most reasonable people would consider "circumstantial proof".