Church of the Nativity and shrine of Adonis-Tammuz

[Dom]

According to some writers, Bethlehem--the birthplace of David and the
predicted birthplace of the Messiah--contained a cave that was a
shrine to Adonis-Tammuz. This cave provided a convenient location that
would be identified as the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth.

In "The Life of Jesus," Grove Press (1967) p. 35-36 [translation of:
"La vita di Gesù," Feltrinelli Editore, Milano (1966)] Marcelli
Craveri wrote:

"The belief that this is the exact spot on which the Messiah was born
goes back to Justin Martyr, the second-century apologist, and was
endorsed, about a hundred years later, by the philosopher Origen. The
Church Father Jerome, who died in Bethlehem in 420, reports in
addition that the holy cave was at one point consecrated by the
heathen to the worship of Adonis, and a pleasant sacred grove planted
before it, to wipe out the memory of Jesus. Modern mythologists,
however, reverse the supposition, insisting that the cult of Adonis-
Tammuz originated the shrine and that it was the Christians who took
it over, substituting the worship of their own god."

For the last sentence, Craveri provides a reference to Giuseppe
Ricciotti, "Vita di Gesù Cristo," Rome:Tipografia Poliglotta Vaticana
(1948) p. 276 n. [1st edition, Milan: Rizzoli (1941)].

Are there any other references that support the claim that the shrine
of Adonis-Tammuz predated the Christians' takeover of this location?

[Whiskers]

Post by Dom
According to some writers, Bethlehem--the birthplace of David and the
predicted birthplace of the Messiah--contained a cave that was a
shrine to Adonis-Tammuz. This cave provided a convenient location that
would be identified as the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth.
"La vita di Gesù," Feltrinelli Editore, Milano (1966)] Marcelli
"The belief that this is the exact spot on which the Messiah was born
goes back to Justin Martyr, the second-century apologist, and was
endorsed, about a hundred years later, by the philosopher Origen. The
Church Father Jerome, who died in Bethlehem in 420, reports in
addition that the holy cave was at one point consecrated by the
heathen to the worship of Adonis, and a pleasant sacred grove planted
before it, to wipe out the memory of Jesus. Modern mythologists,
however, reverse the supposition, insisting that the cult of Adonis-
Tammuz originated the shrine and that it was the Christians who took
it over, substituting the worship of their own god."
For the last sentence, Craveri provides a reference to Giuseppe
Ricciotti, "Vita di Gesù Cristo," Rome:Tipografia Poliglotta Vaticana
(1948) p. 276 n. [1st edition, Milan: Rizzoli (1941)].
Are there any other references that support the claim that the shrine
of Adonis-Tammuz predated the Christians' takeover of this location?

I don't know of any. Isn't it rather unlikely that early Christians would
have chosen a pagan shrine to revere as the birthplace of Jesus? If you
accept the idea that Joseph and Mary (both observant Jews) had to find
shelter in a hurry for the child to be born, would they really have used a
pagan shrine for the purpose? Would the pagan worshippers have allowed it?
Why would there be a cattle feed trough ('manger') in a shrine?

Compared with all those improbabilities, the idea that the Romans built a
pagan shrine on a spot already revered by the Christians (to prevent
Christians from accessing the place) seems quite plausible. That
Christians continued to revere that same spot through about 200 years of
such exclusion and desecration indicates the strength of that tradition.

As to whether or not Jesus, or anyone, really was born in that particular
cave, is a matter of faith not amenable to science or archaeology.

[Christopher Ingham]

Post by Dom
According to some writers, Bethlehem--the birthplace of David and the
predicted birthplace of the Messiah--contained a cave that was a
shrine to Adonis-Tammuz. This cave provided a convenient location that
would be identified as the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth.
"La vita di Gesù," Feltrinelli Editore, Milano (1966)] Marcelli
"The belief that this is the exact spot on which the Messiah was born
goes back to Justin Martyr, the second-century apologist, and was
endorsed, about a hundred years later, by the philosopher Origen. The
Church Father Jerome, who died in Bethlehem in 420, reports in
addition that the holy cave was at one point consecrated by the
heathen to the worship of Adonis, and a pleasant sacred grove planted
before it, to wipe out the memory of Jesus. Modern mythologists,
however, reverse the supposition, insisting that the cult of Adonis-
Tammuz originated the shrine and that it was the Christians who took
it over, substituting the worship of their own god."
For the last sentence, Craveri provides a reference to Giuseppe
Ricciotti, "Vita di Gesù Cristo," Rome:Tipografia Poliglotta Vaticana
(1948) p. 276 n. [1st edition, Milan: Rizzoli (1941)].
Are there any other references that support the claim that the shrine
of Adonis-Tammuz predated the Christians' takeover of this location?

Craveri errs in some details. Justin Martyr, in a letter dated to
between 155 and 161 (_Dial._78.12-3), places the birthplace of Jesus
outside Bethlehem, not at the site of the Grotto of the Nativity.
Origen in c. 247 (_C. Cels._1.51) relates that it is the local pagans
who believe that Jesus was born at the place where Tammuz-Adonis is
worshipped (the future site of the Grotto of the Nativity). Jerome, in
a letter dated to 395 (_Ep._58.3), first makes the claim that the Cave
of the Nativity had been overtaken by the pagan cult site of Tammuz-
Adonis.

Matthew and Luke place the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem, but these
stories are "relatively late, and belong to stages II [materials
shaped and transmitted in oral tradition] and III [evangelists'
redactions; stage I being authentic words and memories of Jesus
himself]. [..] The birth at Bethlehem may be a theological assertion,
associated with the Davidic descent." (R. H. Fuller, in_B. M. Metzger
and M. D. Coogan, eds.,_The Oxford guide to people and places of the
Bible_, Oxford Univ. Press, 2001, s.v. "Jesus Christ.")
http://books.google.com/books?id=0P-mASFPEsAC&pg=PA137

A detailed examination of the historical development of the Grotto of
the Nativity is given by J. E. Taylor (_Christians and holy places:
The myth of Jewish-Christian origins_, Oxford Univ. Press, 1993,
96-112), who establishes that the Tammuz-Adonis cult site pre-dates
it. Her summary [112] is transcribed below:
http://books.google.com/books?id=KWAXbCNxH6YC&pg=PA96

"There is no evidence for the early Christian veneration of the
Nativity Grotto in Bethlehem. The texts that are used to support a
case for a Christian use of the cave prior to the fourth century fall
into two categories. In the first place, there is the evidence of
Justin Martyr, and the apocryphal stories, which place the birth of
Christ somewhere outside Bethlehem in a cave. It has been argued that
there are several possibilities that would explain why a cave should
have been employed in this tradition, the most likely being that
Justin assumed that the stable was a cave and perhaps made use of an
apocryphal story of a kind that used symbolic elements.
The_Protevangelium_popularized this view by developing the idea of the
cave as a symbol, and Christians visiting Palestine, who were
influenced by apocryphal stories, came to presume that Christ's birth
took place in a cave. There are, in the second place, the writings of
Origen, Eusebius, and Jerome, which together show that by the end of
the third century, the famous cave where the mysteries of Tammuz-
Adonis were celebrated was identified with the birthplace of Jesus ;
these do not continue the tradition in Justin, in which the cave is
located outside the town, but rather demonstrate a blending of pagan
and Christian traditions. What pre-dated the pagan use of the site may
have been some sort of Jewish folk-cult of the Messiah's birthplace,
but this is a purely hypothetical conjecture. There is no shred of
evidence that Jewish-Christians venerated the cave.

"Whether the historical Jesus was actually born in Bethlehem is a
debatable point that will not be explored here. If his birthplace was
Nazareth, and the Bethlehem traditions of the Gospels were secondary,
then 'the symbol of the cave', as Justin puts it, becomes a legend
embellishing a legend which, by good fortune and some engineering,
found its resting place on a pagan cult site."

Christopher Ingham

[Dom]

Post by Christopher Ingham
A detailed examination of the historical development of the Grotto of
The myth of Jewish-Christian origins_, Oxford Univ. Press, 1993,
96-112), who establishes that the Tammuz-Adonis cult site pre-dates
it. Her summary [112] is transcribed below:http://books.google.com/books?id=KWAXbCNxH6YC&pg=PA96

[snip]

Thank you very much for the information.

[JTEM]

Post by Dom
According to some writers, Bethlehem--the birthplace
of David and the

Christians == Jews.

Start with some of the earliest traditions -- the
persecution of Christians. Nero, for example, is
alleged to have blamed Christians for the fire of
Rome.

Why? What was his motive?

The Jews were the trouble makers of his day. Fact,
records tell us that not one but two of his
predecessors (and he only had three) had banned
Jews from the city of Rome. And it was during Nero's
reign that Judea revolted against Roman rule.

Where are the records of Jewish persecutions?

We see the same thing again in the second century.
Judea is in full scale rebellion... there's an
actual, *For* *Real* "Messiah" (what the Greeks
like to call "Christos"), proclaimed so by all the
high priests themselves... yet all historic mentions
of any Messiah are always identified as Jesus, any
followers of this Christos are always identified
as Christians, as are all those persecuted.

Which is weird, because the Jesus of the bible
preaches obedience to Rome. He's condemned by the
Jews (the Jews are the enemy) while the Romans
are so disgusted they wash their hands of this
travesty.

So why would the Romans persecute any of them, instead
of the Jewish followers of the 100% for real, honest
to goodness Messiah who was preaching hatred & death
to Roman?

Sometimes things really are as they seem, and Jesus
of the bible looks like a Roman friendly, anti Jewish
alternative that was invented to compete with & squash
the nasty, anti Roman Jewish alternative.

Take one look at Greco-Roman religion, what it offered
the masses, if you're the least bit curious as to why
the eastern beliefs were so popular. The Odyssey, for
example, offers a traditional view of the afterlife
little different from our modern concept of Hell.
Combine this with Greco-Roman morality, which pissed
on Compassion and promoted ruthlessness, and it's a
wonder than any Roman masters survived their slaves!

[Christopher Ingham]

Post by JTEM

Post by Dom
According to some writers, Bethlehem--the birthplace
of David and the

Christians == Jews.
Start with some of the earliest traditions -- the
persecution of Christians. Nero, for example, is
alleged to have blamed Christians for the fire of
Rome.
Why? What was his motive?
The Jews were the trouble makers of his day. Fact,
records tell us that not one but two of his
predecessors (and he only had three) had banned
Jews from the city of Rome. And it was during Nero's
reign that Judea revolted against Roman rule.
Where are the records of Jewish persecutions?
We see the same thing again in the second century.
Judea is in full scale rebellion... there's an
actual, *For*  *Real*  "Messiah" (what the Greeks
like to call "Christos"), proclaimed so by all the
high priests themselves... yet all historic mentions
of any Messiah are always identified as Jesus, any
followers of this Christos are always identified
as Christians, as are all those persecuted.
Which is weird, because the Jesus of the bible
preaches obedience to Rome. He's condemned by the
Jews (the Jews are the enemy) while the Romans
are so disgusted they wash their hands of this
travesty.
So why would the Romans persecute any of them, instead
of the Jewish followers of the 100% for real, honest
to goodness Messiah who was preaching hatred & death
to Roman?
Sometimes things really are as they seem, and Jesus
of the bible looks like a Roman friendly, anti Jewish
alternative that was invented to compete with & squash
the nasty, anti Roman Jewish alternative.
Take one look at Greco-Roman religion, what it offered
the masses, if you're the least bit curious as to why
the eastern beliefs were so popular. The Odyssey, for
example, offers a traditional view of the afterlife
little different from our modern concept of Hell.
Combine this with Greco-Roman morality, which pissed
on Compassion and promoted ruthlessness, and it's a
wonder than any Roman masters survived their slaves!

What does any of this unsourced, incoherent blather have to do with
the OP?

Christopher Ingham

[JTEM]

Post by Christopher Ingham
What does any of this

What does the fact that Christianity is a latter day
Roman invention have to do with whether or not
Christians were identify a site as Jesus' birth place
before there was such thing as Christians?

[Elijahovah]

Adonis means Lord, and it exists in scripture referring to God
(Adonay) and
to Jesus (Adonay). It is Damuzi being called Lord. We now call this
planet Mars.
Damuzi is The Leader as is Jesus The Leader. The reason Dumuzi is the
Leader
is because of its orbit 780 days x 6 = 13 x 360 day calendar.
This is not new since The Sar or 3600 days being 10 years of 360 days
and thus
a decade came to be equated with the kings who ruled before the Flood.
for 970 calendar years (349,200 days). The new years day of the 10-
year sar
or decade ruling man became equated with kings ruling man as
The Czar, the Tsar, the Tzar, the Caesar, the Kaisar.

Further identification that Mars preceded Jesus (and yet this does not
prove
the cave was first Jesus or first Mars) is the fact that Mar or Mars
is Chaldean for
The Son which in Arabic is Bar or Bars. Marduk was Damuzi every 4th
cycle
of 13 years is 52 years which matched the four seasons.
In 2368 BC autumn (Julian October is Gregorian Sep)
2316 BC winter (Julian January is Gregorian December)
2265 BC spring Apr
2214 BC summer July
2163 BC autumn Oct
2111 BC winter Jan
2060 BC spring Apr = Babel Marduk temple then Nineveh
2009 BC summer July = Marduk Street

Jesus signifies those who beleived his birth was the year 6000;
which in 360 days ends in 1913-1914 (G.May 17 to May 12)
as 61 years before year 6000 in orbits (4344 Julian years).

[Martin Edwards]

Post by Elijahovah
Adonis means Lord, and it exists in scripture referring to God
(Adonay) and
to Jesus (Adonay). It is Damuzi being called Lord. We now call this
planet Mars.

It's on Amerika's tortured brow, that Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow.

[Anna DeGanno]

Post by Elijahovah
Adonis means Lord, and it exists in scripture referring to God
(Adonay) and
to Jesus (Adonay). It is Damuzi being called Lord. We now call this
planet Mars.

What mental illness were you diagnosed with? Bi-polar by any chance?

[Elijahovah]

Post by Anna DeGanno
What mental illness were you diagnosed with? Bi-polar by any chance?

Adonis means Lord
And it exists in scripture referring to God as lord (Adonay)
and to Jesus as lord (Adonay).
Adonis our lord is Damuzi being called Lord planet Mars.
The name Mars is from Marduk.
Mar means The Son in Chaldean.
Bar means The Son in Hebrew and Arabic.
As does Ben mean the son.
The first born John Doe
would John Bar Doe and the others are John Ben Doe.
Damuzi is the Leader, Marduk is the Leader,
Mars is 780 days and in 6 orbits is The Leader being
every 13 years on the 360-day new years day.

Therefore it is no surprise that a birthplace of Jesus
would be called Adonis or that a place of Adonis would
be mistaken as the birth of Jesus. It can be either way,
and is irrelevent to the point that a calendar is involved.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Post by Elijahovah

What mental illness were you diagnosed with?  Bi-polar by any chance?

Adonis means Lord
And it exists in scripture referring to God as lord (Adonay)

actually "my lord (pl.)"

Post by Elijahovah
and to Jesus as lord (Adonay).
Adonis our lord is Damuzi being called Lord planet Mars.
The name Mars is from Marduk.
Mar means The Son in Chaldean.

"Chaldean" is an old term for Biblical Aramaic. Marduk is not Aramaic
but Assyrian (mistakenly now used for Neo-Aramaic in Iraq).

Post by Elijahovah
Bar means The Son in Hebrew and Arabic.

no, bar means "son" in Aramaic. it entered later day Hebrew and Old,
Aramainized Arabic.

in Hebrew "son" is ben .

in Arabic it is ibn , the i being a helping vowel (actually preceded
by a glottal stop, that is dropped in the construct state (hamzatu-l-
waSl).

Post by Elijahovah
As does Ben mean the son.
The first born John Doe
would John Bar Doe and the others are John Ben Doe.
Damuzi is the Leader, Marduk is the Leader,
Mars is 780 days and in 6 orbits is The Leader being
every 13 years on the 360-day new years day.
Therefore it is no surprise that a birthplace of Jesus
would be called Adonis or that a place of Adonis would
be mistaken as the birth of Jesus. It can be either way,
and is irrelevent to the point that a calendar is involved.

[Elijahovah]

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
"Chaldean" is an old term for Biblical Aramaic. Marduk is not Aramaic
but Assyrian (mistakenly now used for Neo-Aramaic in Iraq).
no, bar means "son" in Aramaic. it entered later day Hebrew and Old,
Aramainized Arabic.

I submit Simon Bar Kokhba who was The son of the star of Jacob.
It means Simon the son of Kohba. So for you to say Bar does not mean
the son
but only means son is trivial nothing to others whom you wish to adore
you.
I also submit Joseph ben Matthias which means
Joseph the son of Matthias (who is Josephus).

Now for you to say Aramaic is not Arabic is a confusion to me.
Let's ask others why you don't think Arabic is Aramaic.
And it is your modern mythological doctrine (words off the tongue of
rebellious Satan) who claims Chaldean is a word for Aramaic when in
fact
Moses (1512 BC) states that Apaxad was the father of Chaldea.
[Arpaxad 438 years 2368-1930 BC)
who as the father of Shelah equated the end of Shelah with the end of
Chaldea
[Shelah 433 years 2333-1900 BC]
because 108-year dynasty Ur III ended (2009-1901 BC)
having Abram desert it in the last year of Shulgi (Dungi)
making AmarSin (AmarPal) an enemy in 1943 BC
and war against him in 1934 BC when he tried to retrieve
the residents of Ur who followed Abram to Sodom.
Canain THE SON of Arpaxad is Chaldea the son of Arpaxad.
And though he be assigned 130 years evidence for anyone named
Cain, Kenan, Canaan, Cainan is that of what goes wayward.
Though Ur was built 130 years after the Flood the year after Babel,
the 130 years refers to its fall which could be acredited to its birth
but
the spans of 130 to measure also from the fall of 1st dynasty Ur in
2030 BC which produced in 2029 BC men of 30 who were made elders
(kings), including Ibbi-Sin whose servant Ishbi-Erra was enthroned in
Isan
in 2017 BC though Ibbi-Sin did not become presiding king in Ur III
until
1925-1901 BC. Thus when Ur fell in 2030 BC with all mankind dying at
240
(including Gilgamesh) it was revived until falling as Ur III in 1900
BC being
130 years later. This however was when Nimrod was 370 years old, and
it
was yet 130 years again when he died at 500 in Adam's year 2256
or 1770 BC the 23rd year of Hamurabi which
is the confusion of the Flood as 2256 AM (instead of 1656 AM) being
that Hamurabi
then went forth to sweep thru the world like a flood killing those who
do not subject.
Hamurabi declared himself the replacement of Nimrod, Babylon was now
his
because Nimrod was dead.
Thus Chaldea died in 2030 BC and in 1900 BC.
I would not regard this as Aramaic. It would seem Aramaic comes from
Chaldea,
Chaldea does not come from Aramaic.

He walked into the garden with his ho. Do tell me which came first
the hoe or the ho. (Ah the answer, you did, the jackass.)

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Post by Elijahovah

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
"Chaldean" is an old term for Biblical Aramaic. Marduk is not Aramaic

we don't know exactly what Semitic language the Ancient Chaldees
spoke, but they used Old babylonian when they took over Babylonia. and
yes, ma:ru(m), mar'u(m), me:ru are words for "son" in Akkadian
languages.

Post by Elijahovah

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
but Assyrian (mistakenly now used for Neo-Aramaic in Iraq).
no, bar means "son" in Aramaic. it entered later day Hebrew and Old,
Aramainized Arabic.

I submit Simon Bar Kokhba who was The son of the star of Jacob.

Simon Bar Kokhba means Simon son of Kokhba (litt. "star") in Judeo-
Aramaic (rarther the Hellenized version of it)

Post by Elijahovah
It means Simon the son of Kohba. So for you to say Bar does not mean
the son
but only means son is trivial nothing to others whom you wish to adore
you.

I don't know what you mean, but it seems it has nothing to do in a
sci.* group

Post by Elijahovah
I also submit Joseph ben Matthias which means
Joseph the son of Matthias (who is Josephus).

correct. that's Hebrew (or rather the Hellenized version of it)

Post by Elijahovah
Now for you to say Aramaic is not Arabic is a confusion to me.
Let's ask others why you don't think Arabic is Aramaic.
And it is your modern mythological doctrine (words off the tongue of
rebellious Satan) who claims Chaldean is a word for Aramaic when in

the Uniate Catholic Church of Iraq (using Eastern Syriac, a form of
Aramaic) called themselves Chaldean, the Aramaic speaking adherents of
the Church speak Neo-Aramaic dialects (located mostly in teh North of
Iraq, whereas ancient Chaldea was located in the South), and amongst
19th century lexicographers "Chaldee" referred to Aramaic.


whether this is from the "tongue of Satan" is a theological problem
not relevant in a sci.*

Post by Elijahovah
fact
Moses (1512 BC) states that Apaxad was the father of Chaldea.
[Arpaxad 438 years 2368-1930 BC)
who as the father of Shelah equated the end of Shelah with the end of
Chaldea
[Shelah 433 years 2333-1900 BC]
because 108-year dynasty Ur III ended (2009-1901 BC)
having Abram desert it in the last year of Shulgi (Dungi)
making AmarSin (AmarPal) an enemy in 1943 BC
and war against him in 1934 BC when he tried to retrieve
the residents of Ur who followed Abram to Sodom.
Canain THE SON of Arpaxad is Chaldea the son of Arpaxad.
And though he be assigned 130 years evidence for anyone named
Cain, Kenan, Canaan, Cainan is that of what goes wayward.
Though Ur was built 130 years after the Flood the year after Babel,
the 130 years refers to its fall which could be acredited to its birth
but
the spans of 130 to measure also from the fall of 1st dynasty Ur in
2030 BC which produced in 2029 BC men of 30 who were made elders
(kings), including Ibbi-Sin whose servant Ishbi-Erra was enthroned in
Isan
in 2017 BC though Ibbi-Sin did not become presiding king in Ur III
until
1925-1901 BC. Thus when Ur fell in 2030 BC with all mankind dying at
240
(including Gilgamesh) it was revived until falling as Ur III in 1900
BC being
130 years later. This however was when Nimrod was 370 years old, and
it
was yet 130 years again when he died at 500 in Adam's year 2256
or 1770 BC the 23rd year of Hamurabi which
is the confusion of the Flood as 2256 AM (instead of 1656 AM) being
that Hamurabi
then went forth to sweep thru the world like a flood killing those who
do not subject.
Hamurabi declared himself the replacement of Nimrod, Babylon was now
his
because Nimrod was dead.
Thus Chaldea died in 2030 BC and in 1900 BC.
I would not regard this as Aramaic. It would seem Aramaic comes from
Chaldea,
Chaldea does not come from Aramaic.

yes, but it was a frequent misnomer in the 19th and early 20th
centuries.

Post by Elijahovah
He walked into the garden with his ho. Do tell me which came first
the hoe or the ho. (Ah the answer, you did, the jackass.)

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Post by Elijahovah
Now for you to say Aramaic is not Arabic is a confusion to me.
Let's ask others why you don't think Arabic is Aramaic.

I am not going to bother to answer this. just look up "aramaic" and
look up "Arabic" and you will find out the differences. they are
entirely different Semitic languages.

[Elijahovah]

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
I am not going to bother to answer this. just look up "aramaic" and
look up "Arabic" and you will find out the differences. they are
entirely different Semitic languages.

I'll do that graciously. My apology, I'll assume I am wrong
even before I find out how and why. Thanx.

BUT
i will say
I can see where the Chaldean word Mar
is combined with the Hebrew word Ben
to create the Aramaic word Bar as the merge.
In either case The Son comes out as translation.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

sci.lang added.

Follow up to: sci.archaeology, soc.history.ancient, sci.lang

Post by Elijahovah

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
I am not going to bother to answer this. just look up "aramaic" and
look up "Arabic" and you will find out the differences. they are
entirely different Semitic languages.

I'll do that graciously. My apology, I'll assume I am wrong
even before I find out how and why. Thanx.
BUT
i will say
I can see where the Chaldean word Mar

it's called "Akkadian"

Post by Elijahovah
is combined with the Hebrew word Ben
to create the Aramaic word Bar as the merge.

it's not a merge, that I am pretty sure of. according to the Starling
Database, there are three different proto-Semitic words, going back to
different proto-Afro-Asitic roots, one represented by Akkadian māru,
the other by Aramaic bar, the other by Hebrew ben, Arabic ibn : (but
the database may have some controversial ideas, so I would like to
know what the generally accepted view is. ben / ibn may go back to teh
verb "to build" acc. to DBD. the existenceof both forms in some
languages supports the view of the Starling database, complied for
Afro-Asiatic by Alexander Militarev, Olga Stolbova. the controversial
Sergei Starostin was responsible for the overall work.

Semitic etymology :



Number: 9



http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/semet&text_number=+++9&root=config

Semitic etymology :


Proto-Semitic: *bin-



Meaning: 'son'

Akkadian: bīnu OAkk., OA, SB (CAD B, 242-3; AHw, 127)

Amorite: bi/unum (DUL, 224)

Ugaritic: bn (DUL, 224-5)

Canaanite: Moab bn (HJ, 170), Amm bn (HJ, 170), Edom (HJ, 170)

Phoenician: bn (T, 47), bn (HJ, 168), Pun bn (HJ, 168)

Hebrew: bēn (KB deutsch, 131), bn (HJ, 170), pB. bēn (Ja, 176)

Aramaic: Nab bn (HJ, 170), Sam bn (Tal, 103); Samal, OAram, OffAr bny
pl. constr. of br (HJ, 188), Palm bnyn pl. abs. of br (HJ, 190); Hatra
bny pl. cstr. of br (HJ, 191), Eg. bny pl. cstr. of *br (HJ, 1254)

Judaic Aramaic: bǝnīn, pl. of bar 'son, member' (Ja, 188; Sokoloff,
97), bnyn pl. abs. of br (HJ, 192)





http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/semet&text_number=++10&root=config


Semitic etymology :



Number: 10

Proto-Semitic: *bar-



Meaning: 'son'

Phoenician: br (n.m.) (T, 54)

Hebrew: bar (KB deutsch, 146) (< Arm)

Aramaic: DA, Sam, OAram OffAr, Nab, Palm, Hatra br (HJ, 188-193); Sam
bar (Tal, 103),

Biblical Aramaic: bar (KB deutsch, 1682-3)

Judaic Aramaic: bar (Ja, 188), bēr, bar (Sokoloff, 97), br (HJ, 191)

Modern Aramaic: bar (Maclean, 37)

Epigraphic South Arabian: Sab brw (SD, 32); Min brw (LM, 24)

Amharic: cf. yäʔayn brät 'pupil (eye)' (K, 884), possibly originally
'the daughter of eye'

East Ethiopic: Zwy yīn brät 'pupil of the eye' (LGur 156), possibly
originally 'the daughter of eye'

Gurage: Muh. yen brät 'pupil of the eye' (LGur 156), possibly
originally 'the daughter of eye'

Mehri: bǝr (JM, 54)

Jibbali: bɛr (JJ, 28)

Harsusi: ber (JH, 19)

Soqotri: bar (LS, 95)






http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/afaset&text_number=+++9&root=config

Afroasiatic etymology :



Proto-Afro-Asiatic: *bin-

Meaning: son, brother

Semitic: *bin- 'son'

Western Chadic: *mV-bVn- 'person'

Central Chadic: *bin- 'brother'

East Chadic: Lele bànè 'friend' [WP] ?

Notes: Cf. Eg bnt 'epithet of the Sun-god's son'




http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/afaset&text_number=++10&root=config

Afroasiatic etymology :



Proto-Afro-Asiatic: *bar-

Meaning: child, son, daughter

Borean etymology:

Semitic: *bar- 'son'

Berber: *barar- 'son'

Egyptian: Dem bry 'young', COP beri 'new'

Western Chadic: *bar-/*byar- 'young girl' 1, 'child' 2, 'son' 3

Central Chadic: *bar- 'young boy, male animal'

South Cushitic: *mbur- 'older boy, lad, young man'

Dahalo (Sanye): *bōr- 'boy'





http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/semet&text_number=++36&root=config


Semitic etymology :


Number: 36

Proto-Semitic: *marʔ-



Meaning: 'son, boy' 1, 'child' 2, 'lord' 3, 'man' 4, 'husband' 5

Akkadian: māru 1

Syrian Aramaic: mārā 3

Arabic: marʔ-, murʔ- 4, 5

Epigraphic South Arabian: Sab, Qat mrʔ 2, Sab 3, 4

Mehri: ḥǝ-mrō 2 (pl.)




http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/afaset&text_number=++25&root=config


Afroasiatic etymology :



Proto-Afro-Asiatic: *marʔ- ˜ *maʔar-

Meaning: child, (young) man


Semitic: *marʔ- 'son, boy' 1, 'child' 2, 'lord' 3, 'man' 4, 'husband'
5

Egyptian: mr.w 'people' (OK)

Western Chadic: *mVr- 'boy' 1, 'person' 2, 'male' 3, 'family' 4

Central Chadic: *ma/ur- 'man'

East Chadic: *maHar- 'uncle' (?)

High East Cushitic: *mur- 'infant'

Omotic: Ong maara (Fl)'baby', North Mao meri 'child' (Grottanelli)

Post by Elijahovah
In either case The Son comes out as translation.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
sci.lang added.
Follow up to: sci.archaeology, soc.history.ancient, sci.lang

Post by Elijahovah

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
I am not going to bother to answer this. just look up "aramaic" and
look up "Arabic" and you will find out the differences. they are
entirely different Semitic languages.

I'll do that graciously. My apology, I'll assume I am wrong
even before I find out how and why. Thanx.
BUT
i will say
I can see where the Chaldean word Mar

it's called "Akkadian"

Post by Elijahovah
is combined with the Hebrew word Ben
to create the Aramaic word Bar as the merge.

it's not a merge, that I am pretty sure of.

David Testen published an article in JNES ca. 1985 showing that bar
and bin can be related by regular sound change affecting the very few
stems with adjacent consonants.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Post by Peter T. Daniels

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
sci.lang added.
Follow up to: sci.archaeology, soc.history.ancient, sci.lang

Post by Elijahovah

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
I am not going to bother to answer this. just look up "aramaic" and
look up "Arabic" and you will find out the differences. they are
entirely different Semitic languages.

I'll do that graciously. My apology, I'll assume I am wrong
even before I find out how and why. Thanx.
BUT
i will say
I can see where the Chaldean word Mar

it's called "Akkadian"

Post by Elijahovah
is combined with the Hebrew word Ben
to create the Aramaic word Bar as the merge.

it's not a merge, that I am pretty sure of.

David Testen published an article in JNES ca. 1985 showing that bar
and bin can be related by regular sound change affecting the very few
stems with adjacent consonants.

The Significance of Aramaic r < *n
Author(s): D. Testen
Source: Journal of Near Eastern Studies, Vol. 44, No. 2 (Apr., 1985),
pp. 143-146
Published by: The University of Chicago Press
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/544476

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
sci.lang added.
Follow up to: sci.archaeology, soc.history.ancient, sci.lang

follow ups removed.

Post by Yusuf B Gursey

Post by Elijahovah

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
I am not going to bother to answer this. just look up "aramaic" and
look up "Arabic" and you will find out the differences. they are
entirely different Semitic languages.

I'll do that graciously. My apology, I'll assume I am wrong
even before I find out how and why. Thanx.
BUT
i will say
I can see where the Chaldean word Mar

it's called "Akkadian"

Post by Elijahovah
is combined with the Hebrew word Ben
to create the Aramaic word Bar as the merge.

it's not a merge, that I am pretty sure of. according to the Starling
Database, there are three different proto-Semitic words, going back to
different proto-Afro-Asitic roots, one represented by Akkadian māru,
the other by Aramaic bar, the other by Hebrew ben, Arabic ibn : (but
the database may have some controversial ideas, so I would like to
know what the generally accepted view is. ben / ibn may go back to teh
verb "to build" acc. to DBD. the existenceof both forms in some
languages supports the view of the Starling database, complied for
Afro-Asiatic by  Alexander Militarev, Olga Stolbova. the controversial
Sergei Starostin was responsible for the overall work.

apparently bar and ben / ibn are related (according to someone who
believes he has proved it) and they are found in Akkadian as well.
Akkadian māru seems to be genuinely a different word.


The Significance of Aramaic r < *n
Author(s): D. Testen
Source: Journal of Near Eastern Studies, Vol. 44, No. 2 (Apr., 1985),
pp. 143-146
Published by: The University of Chicago Press
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/544476

the article mentions that there are two schools of thought (one being
that ben / ibn and bar are related, the other that they are not, but
he shows the sound change is n < r regular when /n/ is part of words
that were originally vowelless. this occurs in the word for "son" *bn-
and the word for "two" * *th*n-.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
sci.lang added.
Follow up to: sci.archaeology, soc.history.ancient, sci.lang

Post by Elijahovah

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
I am not going to bother to answer this. just look up "aramaic" and
look up "Arabic" and you will find out the differences. they are
entirely different Semitic languages.

I'll do that graciously. My apology, I'll assume I am wrong
even before I find out how and why. Thanx.
BUT
i will say
I can see where the Chaldean word Mar

it's called "Akkadian"

Post by Elijahovah
is combined with the Hebrew word Ben
to create the Aramaic word Bar as the merge.

it's not a merge, that I am pretty sure of. according to the Starling
Database, there are three different proto-Semitic words, going back to
different proto-Afro-Asitic roots, one represented by Akkadian māru,
the other by Aramaic bar, the other by Hebrew ben, Arabic ibn : (but
the database may have some controversial ideas, so I would like to
know what the generally accepted view is. ben / ibn may go back to teh
verb "to build" acc. to DBD. the existenceof both forms in some
languages supports the view of the Starling database, complied for
Afro-Asiatic by  Alexander Militarev, Olga Stolbova. the controversial
Sergei Starostin was responsible for the overall work.

repost (there was a confusion):

Semitic etymology :



Number: 9



http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/semet&text_number=+++9&root=config

Semitic etymology :


Proto-Semitic: *bin-



Meaning: 'son'

Akkadian: bīnu OAkk., OA, SB (CAD B, 242-3; AHw, 127)

Amorite: bi/unum (DUL, 224)

Ugaritic: bn (DUL, 224-5)

Canaanite: Moab bn (HJ, 170), Amm bn (HJ, 170), Edom (HJ, 170)

Phoenician: bn (T, 47), bn (HJ, 168), Pun bn (HJ, 168)

Hebrew: bēn (KB deutsch, 131), bn (HJ, 170), pB. bēn (Ja, 176)

Aramaic: Nab bn (HJ, 170), Sam bn (Tal, 103); Samal, OAram, OffAr bny
pl. constr. of br (HJ, 188), Palm bnyn pl. abs. of br (HJ, 190); Hatra
bny pl. cstr. of br (HJ, 191), Eg. bny pl. cstr. of *br (HJ, 1254)

Judaic Aramaic: bǝnīn, pl. of bar 'son, member' (Ja, 188; Sokoloff,
97), bnyn pl. abs. of br (HJ, 192)


http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/afaset&text_number=+++9&root=config

Afroasiatic etymology :



Proto-Afro-Asiatic: *bin-

Meaning: son, brother

Semitic: *bin- 'son'

Western Chadic: *mV-bVn- 'person'

Central Chadic: *bin- 'brother'

East Chadic: Lele bànè 'friend' [WP] ?

Notes: Cf. Eg bnt 'epithet of the Sun-god's son'









http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/semet&text_number=++10&root=config


Semitic etymology :



Number: 10

Proto-Semitic: *bar-



Meaning: 'son'

Phoenician: br (n.m.) (T, 54)

Hebrew: bar (KB deutsch, 146) (< Arm)

Aramaic: DA, Sam, OAram OffAr, Nab, Palm, Hatra br (HJ, 188-193); Sam
bar (Tal, 103),

Biblical Aramaic: bar (KB deutsch, 1682-3)

Judaic Aramaic: bar (Ja, 188), bēr, bar (Sokoloff, 97), br (HJ, 191)

Modern Aramaic: bar (Maclean, 37)

Epigraphic South Arabian: Sab brw (SD, 32); Min brw (LM, 24)

Amharic: cf. yäʔayn brät 'pupil (eye)' (K, 884), possibly originally
'the daughter of eye'

East Ethiopic: Zwy yīn brät 'pupil of the eye' (LGur 156), possibly
originally 'the daughter of eye'

Gurage: Muh. yen brät 'pupil of the eye' (LGur 156), possibly
originally 'the daughter of eye'

Mehri: bǝr (JM, 54)

Jibbali: bɛr (JJ, 28)

Harsusi: ber (JH, 19)

Soqotri: bar (LS, 95)








http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/afaset&text_number=++10&root=config

Afroasiatic etymology :



Proto-Afro-Asiatic: *bar-

Meaning: child, son, daughter

Borean etymology:

Semitic: *bar- 'son'

Berber: *barar- 'son'

Egyptian: Dem bry 'young', COP beri 'new'

Western Chadic: *bar-/*byar- 'young girl' 1, 'child' 2, 'son' 3

Central Chadic: *bar- 'young boy, male animal'

South Cushitic: *mbur- 'older boy, lad, young man'

Dahalo (Sanye): *bōr- 'boy'





http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/semet&text_number=++36&root=config


Semitic etymology :


Number: 36

Proto-Semitic: *marʔ-



Meaning: 'son, boy' 1, 'child' 2, 'lord' 3, 'man' 4, 'husband' 5

Akkadian: māru 1

Syrian Aramaic: mārā 3

Arabic: marʔ-, murʔ- 4, 5

Epigraphic South Arabian: Sab, Qat mrʔ 2, Sab 3, 4

Mehri: ḥǝ-mrō 2 (pl.)




http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/semham/afaset&text_number=++25&root=config


Afroasiatic etymology :



Proto-Afro-Asiatic: *marʔ- ˜ *maʔar-

Meaning: child, (young) man


Semitic: *marʔ- 'son, boy' 1, 'child' 2, 'lord' 3, 'man' 4, 'husband'
5

Egyptian: mr.w 'people' (OK)

Western Chadic: *mVr- 'boy' 1, 'person' 2, 'male' 3, 'family' 4

Central Chadic: *ma/ur- 'man'

East Chadic: *maHar- 'uncle' (?)

High East Cushitic: *mur- 'infant'

Omotic: Ong maara (Fl)'baby', North Mao meri 'child' (Grottanelli)

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Post by Elijahovah

What mental illness were you diagnosed with?  Bi-polar by any chance?

Adonis means Lord
And it exists in scripture referring to God as lord (Adonay)
and to Jesus as lord (Adonay).
Adonis our lord is Damuzi being called Lord planet Mars.
The name Mars is from Marduk.

here is what Enc. Judiaca "Marduk" by Pinhas Artzi and Raphael
Kutscher has to say:

<<

The origin of Marduk’s name is unknown but there are some suggested
etymologies, the most accepted being from Sumerian (A) MAR. UTU (K),
"the young bull [or calf] of Samaš [Utu] the Sungod." This explanation
was well known in the Babylonian tradition. (For "the 50 names of
Marduk" see below.) Another etymology, put forward by Th. Jacobsen, is
"the son of the storm" (or "maker of storm"?), Marud(d)uk, which
brings the form of his name closer to the
Aramaic-Hebrew transliteration. Abusch understands the name to reflect
original Sumerian amar.uda.ak, meaning "Calf of the Storm," because
Marduk was never a solar deity.
(A) MAR. UTU (K) was how it was written in Assyrian using Sumerograms.

Post by Elijahovah
Mar means The Son in Chaldean.
Bar means The Son in Hebrew and Arabic.
As does Ben mean the son.
The first born John Doe
would John Bar Doe and the others are John Ben Doe.
Damuzi is the Leader, Marduk is the Leader,
Mars is 780 days and in 6 orbits is The Leader being
every 13 years on the 360-day new years day.
Therefore it is no surprise that a birthplace of Jesus
would be called Adonis or that a place of Adonis would
be mistaken as the birth of Jesus. It can be either way,
and is irrelevent to the point that a calendar is involved.

[Elijahovah]

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
"Chaldean" is an old term for Biblical Aramaic. Marduk is not Aramaic
but Assyrian (mistakenly now used for Neo-Aramaic in Iraq).

When Moses gives us the tactic of evil Satan against Eve
he uses your tactic here as the example.
Conversion of my truthful words into what you want the world
to think I really said. By your falsely saying that Chaldean is
Aramaic
you then imply that my saying Marduk is Chaldean is equal
to saying Marduk is Armaic. Thus by converting, you can call me
untrue and correct me by saying Marduk is not Aramaic.

Mar-Duk means The Son of the Mound
Son of the mountain
Son of the ziggurat
Son of the pyramid
Son of the temple

He rises from The Sun.
The Son rises from The Sun.
As The SUN represents God or the light of God,
so does The SON represent God or the sun or
the light of God because he rises first to tell us God (the sun)
is coming as the sunrise. It is all metaphor and simili.

QUOTE: The origin of Marduk’s name is unknown but there are some
suggested
etymologies, the most accepted being from Sumerian (A) MAR. UTU (K),
"the young bull [or calf] of Samaš [Utu] the Sungod."

As you can see Marduk is a heliacal rise of a planet before the sun.
Utu is the sun, it is Shamash.
Marduk began in 2060 BC building Marduk temple on the 360-day new
years day
of Julian April 7. After building Marduk temple to observe Damuzi
(Mars),
Narmer-rod (Nimrod who ends up in Egypt to create Pharaoh on July 14
of 2020 BC)
then went on to build Nineveh the same year (2060 BC- year 914 of
Noah's 360-day calendar).
In 52 years this rise of Mars goes from the spring equinox to a July 8
rise in 2009 BC
when Abram was 9. This created the 52-year calendar of Marduk (24x 780
days = 52x 360 days)
for the new year 966. It is on this date that Marduk street was paved
thru Babel in 2009 BC.

ALL CHRONOLOGIES BIBLE, AND GENESIS, AND LXX, AND PAGAN, AND WORLD
ARE ALL FIXED PIVOTAL TO 2009 BC by the same astronomy.

The bigotry of a Catholic church who sees nothing of its daughter
churches because they insist it is still an unknown mystery is the
same bigotry of all you people who likewise claim everything is still
unrevealed and unknown and a mystery. It is why Jesus says the global
end comes again like for Noah because every one goes about just
living, ignoring any true discovery of knowledge. Your computers are
communication nof video and audio, yet you only see it, and use it,
for pleasure, and sex, and games, and evil. The media that could save
all people even if they had to all pack onto a mountain to live for a
year, instead will be their deaths of 6 billion people before 2012.

[Elijahovah]

Post by Elijahovah
QUOTE: The origin of Marduk’s name is unknown but there are some
suggested
etymologies, the most accepted being from Sumerian (A) MAR. UTU (K),
"the young bull [or calf] of Samaš [Utu] the Sungod."

It is to be noted that the April risings of Mars are Taurus the bull.
But Marduk of 2060 BC as the planet Mars (780 days)
was also in 2009 BC shifted to those who chose 83-year Jupiter
from Noah's new year 713 on 2258 BC Feb 26 whose position returned
every 83 sothic years
2258 BC Feb 26
2175 BC Feb 26
2092 BC Feb 26
2009 BC Feb 26
and could thus count to year 6000
using another 48x 83 years (3984 years)
48x 7 orbits = 336 orbits
4x 996 years

in 996 years 12 x 83 year return of Jupiter
equals 83x the artifical 12-year calendar so that
2009 BC and year 6000 are the same Chinese calendar
zodiac animal name, The Dragon.
This is why the 996 years is confused with the 936 years
of 2256 +3744 = 6000
4x 936 = 3744
1770 BC Thoth 1 on Nov 9
+936 = 834 BC Thoth 1 on March 20
restored Marduk temple in Babylon is mistaken
by Seder Olam Rabbah as year of Solomon's temple
equating both temples with Jupiter as Marduk.

Instead the Septuagint Genesis assumes 834 BC is not 3192 AM but
rather 2009 BC is 3192 AM and so adds the second cycle of 936 from
2009 BC to 1073 BC where Josephus says this is the temple of Solomon
built the same year as restored Marduk. First he says the 4th year of
David as 77 years before division in 996 BC, then he says 4th year of
Solomon as 77 years before division in 996 BC, wrongly giving Solomon
80 years. BUT Allah Good Jehovah (yes, my Jehovah Good) proves Mars as
Marduk and Tamuz by the 773 Julian years from 1770 BC July 10 to 997
BC July 10 where the crossing over of the planet Mars by the sun
occurs on the same date as Solomon observed which destroys the pagan
priests who expected a cycle of 780 years. But his bringing up Tamuz
science resulted in arguing whether the birth of baby Judah in Syria
in 1770 BC was the star of father Israel or star of the son Judah....
and they divided despising that Judah would eternally remain king of
Israel.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Post by Elijahovah

Post by Yusuf B Gursey
"Chaldean" is an old term for Biblical Aramaic. Marduk is not Aramaic
but Assyrian (mistakenly now used for Neo-Aramaic in Iraq).

we don't know the language spoken by the ancient Chaldeans, but I
would guess it might be a Semitic language related to Akkadian, of
which Assyrian is a version of. they used Babylonian in writing
(another version of Akkadian) when they took over Babylonia.
"Chaldean" is not used as a linguistic term anymore

Post by Elijahovah
When Moses gives us the tactic of evil Satan against Eve
he uses your tactic here as the example.
Conversion of my truthful words into what you want the world
to think I really said. By your falsely saying that Chaldean is
Aramaic

it's an old misnomer.

Post by Elijahovah
you then imply that my saying Marduk is Chaldean is equal
to saying Marduk is Armaic. Thus by converting, you can call me
untrue and correct me by saying Marduk is not Aramaic.
Mar-Duk means The Son of the Mound
Son of the mountain
Son of the ziggurat
Son of the pyramid
Son of the temple

reference?

Post by Elijahovah
He rises from The Sun.
The Son rises from The Sun.
As The SUN represents God or the light of God,
so does The SON represent God or the sun or
the light of God because he rises first to tell us God (the sun)
is coming as the sunrise. It is all metaphor and simili.
QUOTE: The origin of Marduk’s name is unknown but there are some
suggested
etymologies, the most accepted being from Sumerian (A) MAR. UTU (K),
"the young bull [or calf] of Samaš [Utu] the Sungod."

I quoted from Enc. Judaica, but my Akkadian dictionary has Šamšu

Post by Elijahovah
As you can see Marduk is a heliacal rise of a planet before the sun.
Utu is the sun, it is Shamash.
Marduk began in 2060 BC building Marduk temple on the 360-day new
years day
of Julian April 7. After building Marduk temple to observe Damuzi
(Mars),
Narmer-rod (Nimrod who ends up in Egypt to create Pharaoh on July 14
of 2020 BC)
then went on to build Nineveh the same year (2060 BC- year 914 of
Noah's 360-day calendar).
In 52 years this rise of Mars goes from the spring equinox to a July 8
rise in 2009 BC
when Abram was 9. This created the 52-year calendar of Marduk (24x 780
days = 52x 360 days)
for the new year 966. It is on this date that Marduk street was paved
thru Babel in 2009 BC.
ALL CHRONOLOGIES BIBLE, AND GENESIS, AND LXX, AND PAGAN, AND WORLD
ARE ALL FIXED PIVOTAL TO 2009 BC by the same astronomy.
The bigotry of a Catholic church who sees nothing of its daughter
churches because they insist it is still an unknown mystery is the
same bigotry of all you people who likewise claim everything is still
unrevealed and unknown and a mystery. It is why Jesus says the global
end comes again like for Noah because every one goes about just
living, ignoring any true discovery of knowledge. Your computers are
communication nof video and audio, yet you only see it, and use it,
for pleasure, and sex, and games, and evil. The media that could save
all people even if they had to all pack onto a mountain to live for a
year, instead will be their deaths of 6 billion people before 2012.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

Post by Elijahovah
Mar-Duk means The Son of the Mound
Son of the mountain
Son of the ziggurat
Son of the pyramid
Son of the temple
He rises from The Sun.
The Son rises from The Sun.
As The SUN represents God or the light of God,
so does The SON represent God or the sun or
the light of God because he rises first to tell us God (the sun)
is coming as the sunrise. It is all metaphor and simili.
QUOTE: The origin of Marduk’s name is unknown but there are some
suggested
etymologies, the most accepted being from Sumerian (A) MAR. UTU (K),
"the young bull [or calf] of Samaš [Utu] the Sungod."
As you can see Marduk is a heliacal rise of a planet before the sun.
Utu is the sun, it is Shamash.
Marduk began in 2060 BC building Marduk temple on the 360-day new
years day
of Julian April 7. After building Marduk temple to observe Damuzi

Marduk was associated with Jupiter during Hammurabi, acc. to
Wikipedia.

Post by Elijahovah
(Mars),
Narmer-rod (Nimrod who ends up in Egypt to create Pharaoh on July 14
of 2020 BC)
then went on to build Nineveh the same year (2060 BC- year 914 of
Noah's 360-day calendar).
In 52 years this rise of Mars goes from the spring equinox to a July 8
rise in 2009 BC
when Abram was 9. This created the 52-year calendar of Marduk (24x 780
days = 52x 360 days)
for the new year 966. It is on this date that Marduk street was paved
thru Babel in 2009 BC.
ALL CHRONOLOGIES BIBLE, AND GENESIS, AND LXX, AND PAGAN, AND WORLD
ARE ALL FIXED PIVOTAL TO 2009 BC by the same astronomy.
The bigotry of a Catholic church who sees nothing of its daughter
churches because they insist it is still an unknown mystery is the
same bigotry of all you people who likewise claim everything is still
unrevealed and unknown and a mystery. It is why Jesus says the global
end comes again like for Noah because every one goes about just
living, ignoring any true discovery of knowledge. Your computers are
communication nof video and audio, yet you only see it, and use it,
for pleasure, and sex, and games, and evil. The media that could save
all people even if they had to all pack onto a mountain to live for a
year, instead will be their deaths of 6 billion people before 2012.

[Anna DeGanno]

Post by Anna DeGanno
What mental illness were you diagnosed with? Bi-polar by any chance?

Adonis means Lord
And it exists in scripture referring to God as lord (Adonay)........

But what mental illness were you diagnosed with? Schizophrenia by any
chance?

[Elijahovah]

What mental illness were you diagnosed with?  Bi-polar by any chance?

Bi-polar is when Martin Edwards is the name of a man for a woman named
Aanna
who places penguins on the Arctic north pole
and polar bears on the Antarctic south pole. The likes of Anna
can be compared to those who say Artic instead of Arc-tic
and they say Antartic instead of Antarc-tic.
Some how stupidity surpasses them that an arc is involved and that
this is why we call it an arctic circle, Maybe she wishes to call it
the north Cubic Circle and the south Antcubic Circle of Antcubica.
.

[Martin Edwards]

Post by Elijahovah

Post by Anna DeGanno
What mental illness were you diagnosed with? Bi-polar by any chance?

Bi-polar is when Martin Edwards is the name of a man for a woman named
Aanna
who places penguins on the Arctic north pole
and polar bears on the Antarctic south pole. The likes of Anna
can be compared to those who say Artic instead of Arc-tic
and they say Antartic instead of Antarc-tic.
Some how stupidity surpasses them that an arc is involved and that
this is why we call it an arctic circle, Maybe she wishes to call it
the north Cubic Circle and the south Antcubic Circle of Antcubica.
.

I don't dress up any more.

[JTEM]

Elijahovah wrote:\

Post by Elijahovah
Bi-polar is when Martin Edwards is the name
of a man for a woman named Aanna who places
penguins on the Arctic north pole and polar
bears on the Antarctic south pole. The
likes of Anna can be compared to those who
say Artic instead of Arc-tic and they say
Antartic instead of Antarc-tic. Some how
stupidity surpasses them that an arc is
involved and that this is why we call it an
arctic circle, Maybe she wishes to call it
the north Cubic Circle and the south
Antcubic Circle of Antcubica.

I don't dress up any more.

I like cake.

[2***@washk12.org]

Post by Dom
According to some writers, Bethlehem--the birthplace of David and the
predicted birthplace of the Messiah--contained a cave that was a
shrine to Adonis-Tammuz. This cave provided a convenient location that
would be identified as the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth.
"La vita di Gesù," Feltrinelli Editore, Milano (1966)] Marcelli
"The belief that this is the exact spot on which the Messiah was born
goes back to Justin Martyr, the second-century apologist, and was
endorsed, about a hundred years later, by the philosopher Origen. The
Church Father Jerome, who died in Bethlehem in 420, reports in
addition that the holy cave was at one point consecrated by the
heathen to the worship of Adonis, and a pleasant sacred grove planted
before it, to wipe out the memory of Jesus. Modern mythologists,
however, reverse the supposition, insisting that the cult of Adonis-
Tammuz originated the shrine and that it was the Christians who took
it over, substituting the worship of their own god."
For the last sentence, Craveri provides a reference to Giuseppe
Ricciotti, "Vita di Gesù Cristo," Rome:Tipografia Poliglotta Vaticana
(1948) p. 276 n. [1st edition, Milan: Rizzoli (1941)].
Are there any other references that support the claim that the shrine
of Adonis-Tammuz predated the Christians' takeover of this location?

Cool, thanks for the info.