Young People Read Old SFF: Houston, Houston, Do You Read by James Tiptree, Jr.

[James Nicoll]

Young People Read Old SFF: Houston, Houston, Do You Read by James Tiptree, Jr.

http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/houston-houston-do-you-read

On going exams mean I am down two reviewers but the other three had a lot
to say.

[Carl Fink]

Post by James Nicoll
Young People Read Old SFF: Houston, Houston, Do You Read by James Tiptree, Jr.
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/houston-houston-do-you-read
On going exams mean I am down two reviewers but the other three had a lot
to say.

Interesting that your first reviewer implicitly assumes the classic and fallacious
false premise: that all men are identical and that all women are identical
(for the domain under discussion). I haven't read "Houston, Houston" in
decades, maybe Sheldon did the same?

[Stephen Graham]

Post by Carl Fink
Interesting that your first reviewer implicitly assumes the classic and fallacious
false premise: that all men are identical and that all women are identical
(for the domain under discussion). I haven't read "Houston, Houston" in
decades, maybe Sheldon did the same?

Sheldon definitely doesn't make that mistake. Only the "twins" are even
close to identical. Not that we get in-depth characterization of
everyone involved.

[Dan Tilque]

Post by James Nicoll
Young People Read Old SFF: Houston, Houston, Do You Read by James Tiptree, Jr.
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/houston-houston-do-you-read

It's unfortunate that you chose one of her weaker stories. She has lots
of good ones, and that one's not bad, but it's hardly her best.

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Dan Tilque

Post by James Nicoll
Young People Read Old SFF: Houston, Houston, Do You Read by James Tiptree, Jr.
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/houston-houston-do-you-read

It's unfortunate that you chose one of her weaker stories. She has lots
of good ones, and that one's not bad, but it's hardly her best.

If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience. I say go further - hit them
with a couple of stinkers. (But not all in
succession so that they get demoralised.)

I wonder if there are many stories that a new
audience will like better than the original
readers did?

[Quadibloc]

Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.

That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think that only
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.

And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes towards women
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like unto Quaker
Life cereal in the famous commercial.

John Savard

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.

That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think that only
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.
And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes towards women
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like unto Quaker
Life cereal in the famous commercial.

Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.

As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.

That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think

that only

Post by Quadibloc
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.
And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes

towards women

Post by Quadibloc
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like

unto Quaker

Post by Quadibloc
Life cereal in the famous commercial.

Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.
As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?

Or _Walk to the End of the World_?

[J. Clarke]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.

That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think that only
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.
And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes towards women
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like unto Quaker
Life cereal in the famous commercial.

Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.

Looking at the photo in the wikipedia entry, "Shreddies" cereal appears
more similar to Wheat Chex than to Life.

Post by Robert Carnegie
As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.

That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think that only
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.
And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes towards women
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like unto Quaker
Life cereal in the famous commercial.

Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.

Looking at the photo in the wikipedia entry, "Shreddies" cereal appears
more similar to Wheat Chex than to Life.

I eat it (the British and Canadian one), but
in the cheaper supermarket clone version, and
as snack, not breakfast. I bear in mind that
cereal originally was promoted as a health
product only in combination with yogurt enemas.

[J. Clarke]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by J. Clarke

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Robert Carnegie
If so - readers at the time had to read stories
that weren't the best; this is just recreating
that experience.

That may be, but given their reactions even to good stories, I think that only
presenting them with the very best has a hope of eliciting a variety of
responses, and therefore being an interesting exercise.
And not only artistic merit, but also avoidance of dated attitudes towards women
and minorities, is clearly an important consideration. I really would like to
see if there exists a story in all of classic SF that would be like unto Quaker
Life cereal in the famous commercial.

Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.

Looking at the photo in the wikipedia entry, "Shreddies" cereal appears
more similar to Wheat Chex than to Life.

I eat it (the British and Canadian one), but
in the cheaper supermarket clone version, and
as snack, not breakfast. I bear in mind that
cereal originally was promoted as a health
product only in combination with yogurt enemas.

FWIW, Wheat Chex and its companion products Rice Chex, Corn Chex, and in
recent times Multi-Grain Chex have been promoted as snack foods as long as
I can remember. Going back into the '60s the packages came with recipes
for "Chex Party Mix" consisting of a combination of Chex cereals with
seasonings and other ingredients, and now you can buy it pre-packaged.

<https://www.chex.com/recipes/original-chex-mix/>

[Greg Goss]

Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.
As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?

Did you get the diamond-shaped Shreddies that they made for the 50th
birthday or some such?

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Greg Goss

Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.
As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?

Did you get the diamond-shaped Shreddies that they made for the 50th
birthday or some such?
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

The ones I buy seem to come as an equal mixture
of squares and regular quadrilaterals.

[Greg Goss]

Post by Robert Carnegie

Post by Greg Goss

Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial. It looks like
"Shreddies", but they are wheat, not oats.
These apparently are the same "Shreddies"
as in Canada. I've just learned that "Shreddies"
apparently means something else in the U.S.
As for dated attitudes towards women and minorities,
isn't that one of the aspects of "old SFF" being
tested? Did we get to the Gor books yet?

Did you get the diamond-shaped Shreddies that they made for the 50th
birthday or some such?
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

The ones I buy seem to come as an equal mixture
of squares and regular quadrilaterals.

(The anniversary promotion made a big deal of their "diamond" ones on
TV ads and billboards etc. A diamond shape is, of course, a square
shown rotated.)

[Quadibloc]

Post by Greg Goss
(The anniversary promotion made a big deal of their "diamond" ones on
TV ads and billboards etc. A diamond shape is, of course, a square
shown rotated.)

I mentioned Diamond Shreddies a while back in another newsgroup. I noted that if
one had equipment that allowed one to drill holes in a printed circuit board at
distances that could be specified in even decimal fractions of an inch -
one-tenth of an inch spacing, one-twentieth, 0.075", and so on and so forth, one
could make an integrated circuit in a square package that would seem to be
impossible to put on such a board...

where the spacing of the pins was something like sqrt(2)/20 inches, say,

one would just have to mount the socket at a 45 degree angle.

Sort of the _opposite_ of Diamond Shreddies, since here the rotation would
conceal a non-obvious *real* difference. (I also mentioned the option of
mounting integrated circuits at other angles not requiring irrational spacing -
say on the diagonal of the 3-4-5 Pythagorean triangle.)

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial.

Here is the commercial I'm thinking of:

for those in far-distant lands who have not experienced it to remember it.

The connection with this particular exercise in exposing young people to old
science-fiction and fantasy should be obvious.

John Savard

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial.

http://youtu.be/vYEXzx-TINc
for those in far-distant lands who have not experienced it to remember it.
The connection with this particular exercise
in exposing young people to old science-fiction
and fantasy should be obvious.

Hmm. I think the "Young People Read Old SFF"
sessions may not look exactly like that -
but, I'm not there.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Robert Carnegie
Hmm. I think the "Young People Read Old SFF"
sessions may not look exactly like that -
but, I'm not there.

I'm not saying they do, but I still think the connection is obvious.

John Savard

[Kevrob]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial.

http://youtu.be/vYEXzx-TINc
for those in far-distant lands who have not experienced it to remember it.

Full-length version:

Others mentioned Ralton/Purina's Chex cereal.

ObSF: The fake newspaper printed on the back of the boxes,
"The Chex Press," was the work of Ron Goulart.

http://greatbutforgotten.blogspot.com/2008/05/morning-chex-press.html

http://www.mrbreakfast.com/cereal_ucp_slideshow.asp?id=311&picid=374

The Chex Press was the only exception to the usual "no
reading at the table" rule.

Post by Quadibloc
The connection with this particular exercise in exposing young people to old
science-fiction and fantasy should be obvious.

Kevin R

[Robert Carnegie]

Post by Kevrob

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial.

http://youtu.be/vYEXzx-TINc
for those in far-distant lands who have not experienced it to remember it.

http://youtu.be/CLQ0LZSnJFE
Others mentioned Ralton/Purina's Chex cereal.
ObSF: The fake newspaper printed on the back of the boxes,
"The Chex Press," was the work of Ron Goulart.
http://greatbutforgotten.blogspot.com/2008/05/morning-chex-press.html

"This was long before nutrition was a selling point" !

How old is the remark that, for nutrition,
you do better eating the cardboard box!

Post by Kevrob
http://www.mrbreakfast.com/cereal_ucp_slideshow.asp?id=311&picid=374
The Chex Press was the only exception to the usual "no
reading at the table" rule.

Post by Quadibloc
The connection with this particular exercise in exposing young people to old
science-fiction and fantasy should be obvious.

Kevin R

[Jack Bohn]

Post by Kevrob

Post by Kevrob
Others mentioned Ralton/Purina's Chex cereal.
ObSF: The fake newspaper printed on the back of the boxes,

"The Chex Press," was the work of Ron Goulart.

Post by Kevrob
http://greatbutforgotten.blogspot.com/2008/05/morning-chex-press.html

"This was long before nutrition was a selling point" !
How old is the remark that, for nutrition,
you do better eating the cardboard box!

I remember a spoof commercial from the early-mid '70s that said of its cereal:
"...with toast, juice, and milk, part of this balanced breakfast- and by 'part of' we mean 'next to'".

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

Post by Jack Bohn

Post by Kevrob

Post by Kevrob
Others mentioned Ralton/Purina's Chex cereal.
ObSF: The fake newspaper printed on the back of the boxes,

"The Chex Press," was the work of Ron Goulart.

Post by Kevrob
http://greatbutforgotten.blogspot.com/2008/05/morning-chex-press.html

"This was long before nutrition was a selling point" !
How old is the remark that, for nutrition,
you do better eating the cardboard box!

"...with toast, juice, and milk, part of this balanced breakfast- and by
'part of' we mean 'next to'".
--
-Jack

Did anyone else have the Checkerboard Squarecrow's Magic Kit?

It was a boxtop premium offer and had a hillbilly jug that you could
pour from even after you demonstrated it was dry, a coin-disappearer slide,
and a where'd the pingpong ball go? magic cup.

[Default User]

Post by Kevrob

Post by Quadibloc
for those in far-distant lands who have not experienced it to remember it.

Others mentioned Ralton/Purina's Chex cereal.

Former cereal. It's a General Mills brand now. Of course, Ralston Purina is a former company now, as they were acquired by Nestle. I don't think any of the cereal brands were retained. What was left of that was spun off as Ralcorp, but they make private-brand cereals.

Purina's acquisition was interesting. St. Louis has a bit of a complex about corporations that were headquartered here but now aren't, although Purina like AB has the regional HQ. Then again, many sports fans hated Purina for their handling of things when they decided that they wanted out of the NHL business.


Brian

[J. Clarke]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Robert Carnegie
Here in Britain we don't have that cereal product,
I think, or that commercial.

http://youtu.be/vYEXzx-TINc
for those in far-distant lands who have not experienced it to remember it.
The connection with this particular exercise in exposing young people to old
science-fiction and fantasy should be obvious.

FWIW, the guy who sat behind me at Enormous Aerospace named his kid
"Mikey" after the kid in that commercial.

[T Guy]

Post by James Nicoll
Young People Read Old SFF: Houston, Houston, Do You Read by James Tiptree, Jr.
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/story/houston-houston-do-you-read
On going exams mean I am down two reviewers but the other three had a lot
to say.

A favourite story of mine, and interesting comments from the Young People.