Post by Will DockeryPost by George DancePost by Will DockeryPost by Will DockeryI might be inclined to give
real poets the artistic license to delve into subjects with gray area
content. However just because the work of some real poets bear
similarity does not mean their intent was similar. And just because
these are real poets does not mean I have to like or agree with their
work.
Of course not... who's asking you to?
You've titled your post "Shock Poetry Discussion"
So, let's discuss Shock Poetry....
You first, and Howl doesn't count
First, why does Howl not count? It was fairly shocking when it was
new.
It was very shocking when new. Kinda like a gay Henry Miller sorta
thang.
To answer your question: Howl, as Shock Poetry, is obvious and
overdone. What other Shock Poetry, from the distant past or from The
Now, can we compare PedoChuck's *A Perfect Angel * to?
For starters, definitely some of Bukowski and even later Allen
Ginsberg.
Did you know that Ginsberg actually was a member of NAMBLA before his
death? Shameful (and shocking) but true.
I don't know what happened to Freddy: he seemed so interested in
discussing the topic. I guess we'll have to go on without him, and
hope he pops back in.
I've had bits of good conversation with Fred over the years, but he
does pop out pretty fast... generally he just seems to come around
from time-to-time to follow Chuck...
Well, if he does want to stick around AAPC to talk about poetry, he's
welcome to IMO: the more the merrier.. Maybe he'll even try to write
some, but that's not obligatory for posting here.
In the meantime, I suppose I should kick the discussion off by giving
my first thoughts on the two poems.
Post by Will DockeryPost by George DanceMy own preference is to compare the two poems that have already been
posted onto the thread. I'm not sure what the questions are -- I
suppose things like, "Which is the better poem?", "Which is more
shocking?", etc. -- so I'll limit myself for now to just putting up
the poems again stripped of all the carets. I'll also identify them as
A and B to make it easier to refer to them later. (I think that'll be
easier to remember: A for Angel, B for the other one.)
A. A Perfect Angel
i knew it was wrong
i'm not really a good babysitter
i felt myself getting hard
as she sat in my lap
and then she kissed me
i told her no
she kept kissing me
soon the passion
was too much
i grabbed her
and slammed my swollen cock
into her virgin pussy
and exploded as she screamed
hours of screams
then...
her parents came home
asked if she did her homework
and if she behaved
she looked at me
and wet her lips with her tongue
i said yes
she was a perfect angel
- Chuck Lysaght
My first thoughts when I read this: this is about two teens having
sex. The simple diction, the lack of imagery or other poetic devices,
and the run-on conversational style (all one sentence linked with
recurring 'and's) all make the speaker sound very young. The opening
line, "I knew it was wrong" is very good in that respect. He really
didn't know it was wrong, of course; thinking something is wrong
implies not doing it. What he knows is that it's "wrong": ie, that
other people have told him that it's wrong and he's internalized it
(the way someone living with his parents would be internalizing them).
That, and the info in the next line that he's a babysitter were what
first made me think it was by a teen.
As for the "shock," there isn't much of one; the two kids have sex,
and get away with it. There's nothing very remarkable about any of it.
The only intended shock value I can see in it comes from using all
those 'dirty' words, which would offend some people I suppose, but
really would only 'shock' someone who's never seen them in print
before (which again makes me think teenager). The fact they got away
with it may offend some sensibilities, too, but certainly isn't
morally offensive: the idea that it would, again indicates a teen:
someone who's confused morality with the way his parents want him to
behave.
So; two teens having sex. Good clean fun. But nothing very interesting
about it; nothing that merits a reread. On the internal evidence, I'd
judge the poem as either very skilled, or the complete opposite:
either a young man about as much experience in poetry writing as sex
(and the same immature idea that because both are so wonderful to him,
others will be equally interested) -- or a very competent writer who's
managed to capture that voice perfectly here.
Post by Will DockeryPost by George DanceB. Graffito
fuck you
on my wall
with a pen
fuck you
on your heart
with a knife
- Peter J. Ross
B is much better written. Note the use of metaphor to say what
happened (vs. the literal description in A), and the holding back of
the killing, as a sort of punchline, until the end. All that makes the
speaker sound like an adult.So it's an adult and he's stabbing
someone. Who? If one interprets S1 metaphorically, then there's not
much information: the victim is just someone who's told the speaker to
f.o., who's rejected him in some way, and got killed for it.
However, if one interprets S1 literally -- and that's important even
if it's a metaphor, just because the writer chose that particular
vehicle for his metaphor -- we learn something about the auditor (the
"you"): that he or she is old enough to write, but still young enough
to scribble on walls. Say, seven years old.
So I'd read B as a story about an adult killing a seven-year-old: Much
more shocking than the teen-sex of A, and also more skillfully told.
Post by Will Dockery--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Post by George Dance--
Post by Will Dockery"Truck Stop Woman" by Dockery & Conley http://youtu.be/kvtQEf7bnfs