How do I pay for DLR? And barrier stuck open on underground

[matthew3774]

I used the DLR yesterday and seeing no barriers or anywhere where
needed to tap my Oyster card I didn’t do so. How are you meant to us
the DLR as I assume it’s not free?

And will I be fined? Earlier I went from Victoria to Tower Hill and th
barrier was stuck open at Victoria so I went through but my debit car
didn’t work at Tower Hill so the guy tried it for me and asked how
managed to get on the train which I told him.

He said I would need to buy an Oyster card or something but let m
through, so being confused I left the station as I couldn’t see an
machines to top up my Oyster card with.

Again would I be fined for this


--
matthew3774

[Offramp]

I used the DLR yesterday and seeing no barriers or anywhere where I
needed to tap my Oyster card I didn’t do so. How are you meant to use
the DLR as I assume it’s not free?
And will I be fined?

If you touched out you will be charged the maximum fare for the journey, £8.00. I can't imagine how you missed the Oyster card readers.

Earlier I went from Victoria to Tower Hill and the
barrier was stuck open at Victoria

So there is only one gate at Victoria and it was open. And it has just been completely redesigned! Obviously very badly.

so I went through but my debit card

What made you switch from the Oyster card?

didn’t work at Tower Hill so the guy tried it for me and asked how I
managed to get on the train which I told him.

You card has almost certainly been blacklisted. Contact TfL customer services to have it (possibly) re-whitelisted.

He said I would need to buy an Oyster card or something but let me
through, so being confused I left the station as I couldn’t see any
machines to top up my Oyster card with.

You must have serious observation problems. You couldn't see the Oyster readers at the DLR station, couldn't see a working gate at Victoria and couldn't see any ticket machines at Tower Hill.
I imagine your head permanently bowed down into a smartphone.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Offramp

I used the DLR yesterday and seeing no barriers or anywhere where I
needed to tap my Oyster card I didn’t do so. How are you meant to use
the DLR as I assume it’s not free?
And will I be fined?

If you touched out you will be charged the maximum fare for the
journey, £8.00. I can't imagine how you missed the Oyster card readers.

They are very easy to miss at several DLR stations, sometimes being
tucked away behind staircases where you don't actually walk past them.

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Offramp

I used the DLR yesterday and seeing no barriers or anywhere where I
needed to tap my Oyster card I didn’t do so. How are you meant to use
the DLR as I assume it’s not free?
And will I be fined?

If you touched out you will be charged the maximum fare for the
journey, £8.00. I can't imagine how you missed the Oyster card readers.

They are very easy to miss at several DLR stations, sometimes being
tucked away behind staircases where you don't actually walk past them.

Yes, I agree. Some give the impression of being almost deliberately hidden.
Sometimes I've had to go back and find one, when I realised I'd not touched
in or out.

Luckily, I no longer need to bother: I do touch in or out when I see one,
but don't worry if I miss it.

[b***@cylonHQ.com]

On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 07:54:18 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Offramp

I used the DLR yesterday and seeing no barriers or anywhere where I
needed to tap my Oyster card I didn’t do so. How are you meant to use
the DLR as I assume it’s not free?
And will I be fined?

If you touched out you will be charged the maximum fare for the
journey, £8.00. I can't imagine how you missed the Oyster card readers.

They are very easy to miss at several DLR stations, sometimes being
tucked away behind staircases where you don't actually walk past them.

Yes, I agree. Some give the impression of being almost deliberately hidden.

That is almost certainly the case. Never underestimate the cynical thought
processes that go on with bean counters. If they wanted to make them obvious
use they'd put them on the platforms, instead they're hidden away down the
stairs often around the corner or behind a support column.

If you're PAYG and forget to touch in they can nail you with a penalty fare and
if you forget to touch out they get the full whack. Win win for them.

Post by Recliner
Luckily, I no longer need to bother: I do touch in or out when I see one,
but don't worry if I miss it.

If you have a season ticket why bother.

[Offramp]

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
If you have a season ticket why bother.

Because if you have a zones 2-5 travelcard and you travel from King George V to Finchley, changing at Bank, without touching in, you are evading the fare for zone 1.

[b***@cylonHQ.com]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 15:59:54 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Offramp

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
If you have a season ticket why bother.

Because if you have a zones 2-5 travelcard and you travel from King George V
to Finchley, changing at Bank, without touching in, you are evading the fare
for zone 1.

I can't say I'd be so wrecked with guilt if making that trip as to bother.
Plus you could always say you got the north london line to stratford and
skipped zone 1 altogether. Tbh I think its somewhat unreasonable of TfL to
assume you took the most expensive route unless you touched at an interchange
machine. It should be the other way around - assume you took the cheapest
route unless there is no alternative.

[Someone Somewhere]

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 15:59:54 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Offramp

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
If you have a season ticket why bother.

Because if you have a zones 2-5 travelcard and you travel from King George V
to Finchley, changing at Bank, without touching in, you are evading the fare
for zone 1.

I can't say I'd be so wrecked with guilt if making that trip as to bother.
Plus you could always say you got the north london line to stratford and
skipped zone 1 altogether. Tbh I think its somewhat unreasonable of TfL to
assume you took the most expensive route unless you touched at an interchange
machine. It should be the other way around - assume you took the cheapest
route unless there is no alternative.

Wasn't the point that if you get gripped somewhere in the Z1 area they
could legitimately claim you were avoiding the fare unless you'd touched in?

That might explain the regular Oyster checks between Shadwell and Bank...

[b***@cylonHQ.com]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 16:00:40 +0100

Post by Someone Somewhere

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 15:59:54 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Offramp

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
If you have a season ticket why bother.

Because if you have a zones 2-5 travelcard and you travel from King George V
to Finchley, changing at Bank, without touching in, you are evading the fare
for zone 1.

I can't say I'd be so wrecked with guilt if making that trip as to bother.
Plus you could always say you got the north london line to stratford and
skipped zone 1 altogether. Tbh I think its somewhat unreasonable of TfL to
assume you took the most expensive route unless you touched at an interchange
machine. It should be the other way around - assume you took the cheapest
route unless there is no alternative.

Wasn't the point that if you get gripped somewhere in the Z1 area they
could legitimately claim you were avoiding the fare unless you'd touched in?
That might explain the regular Oyster checks between Shadwell and Bank...

Possibly. They're certainly cynical enough to do that.

[Offramp]

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Possibly. They're certainly cynical enough to do that.

Cynical gits for demanding the right fare. What gits.

[b***@cylonHQ.com]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:52:44 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Offramp

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Possibly. They're certainly cynical enough to do that.

Cynical gits for demanding the right fare. What gits.

No, cynical for not making it clear that the next stop is the only DLR station
in zone 1 and people should have the right tickets. But instead, hey, lets
just send in the grippers and extract penalty fares instead.

Why the DLR doesn't just install gatelines is a mystery to me. Its a proper
metro system now, not the toytown train of the 80s and should start acting
like one.

[Someone Somewhere]

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:52:44 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Offramp

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Possibly. They're certainly cynical enough to do that.

Cynical gits for demanding the right fare. What gits.

No, cynical for not making it clear that the next stop is the only DLR station
in zone 1 and people should have the right tickets. But instead, hey, lets
just send in the grippers and extract penalty fares instead.
Why the DLR doesn't just install gatelines is a mystery to me. Its a proper
metro system now, not the toytown train of the 80s and should start acting
like one.

Because then you'd have to staff every station, and one person isn't
sufficient so you'd need a second, then for every person you'd need 4 to
cover all the shifts and then you'd have to install the gateline
hardware and make sure there was sufficient circulation room to avoid
crushes at the gateline and so on and so on....

[b***@cylonHQ.com]

On Mon, 2 Jul 2018 11:42:43 +0100

Post by matthew3774

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:52:44 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Offramp

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Possibly. They're certainly cynical enough to do that.

Cynical gits for demanding the right fare. What gits.

No, cynical for not making it clear that the next stop is the only DLR

station

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
in zone 1 and people should have the right tickets. But instead, hey, lets
just send in the grippers and extract penalty fares instead.
Why the DLR doesn't just install gatelines is a mystery to me. Its a proper
metro system now, not the toytown train of the 80s and should start acting
like one.

Because then you'd have to staff every station, and one person isn't
sufficient so you'd need a second, then for every person you'd need 4 to
cover all the shifts and then you'd have to install the gateline
hardware and make sure there was sufficient circulation room to avoid
crushes at the gateline and so on and so on....

I can't see anyone having a problem with more staff at DLR stations. Except
maybe the franchise operators shareholders. Who is running it this week
anyway?

[Someone Somewhere]

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 2 Jul 2018 11:42:43 +0100

Post by matthew3774

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 12:52:44 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Offramp

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Possibly. They're certainly cynical enough to do that.

Cynical gits for demanding the right fare. What gits.

No, cynical for not making it clear that the next stop is the only DLR

station

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
in zone 1 and people should have the right tickets. But instead, hey, lets
just send in the grippers and extract penalty fares instead.
Why the DLR doesn't just install gatelines is a mystery to me. Its a proper
metro system now, not the toytown train of the 80s and should start acting
like one.

Because then you'd have to staff every station, and one person isn't
sufficient so you'd need a second, then for every person you'd need 4 to
cover all the shifts and then you'd have to install the gateline
hardware and make sure there was sufficient circulation room to avoid
crushes at the gateline and so on and so on....

I can't see anyone having a problem with more staff at DLR stations. Except
maybe the franchise operators shareholders. Who is running it this week
anyway?

Yeah - pity about the £12M per annum staff only cost , let alone the
cost of running the gateline plus staff facilities (where do they go to
the toilet?) and so on.

(before you question it, £30k per person, 4.5 people to cover 19 hours
per day all week, 2 people on duty at any one time, so 9 people per
station, 45 stations)

[b***@cylonHQ.com]

On Mon, 2 Jul 2018 13:14:04 +0100

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com

Post by Someone Somewhere
Because then you'd have to staff every station, and one person isn't
sufficient so you'd need a second, then for every person you'd need 4 to
cover all the shifts and then you'd have to install the gateline
hardware and make sure there was sufficient circulation room to avoid
crushes at the gateline and so on and so on....

I can't see anyone having a problem with more staff at DLR stations. Except
maybe the franchise operators shareholders. Who is running it this week
anyway?

Yeah - pity about the £12M per annum staff only cost , let alone the
cost of running the gateline plus staff facilities (where do they go to
the toilet?) and so on.
(before you question it, £30k per person, 4.5 people to cover 19 hours
per day all week, 2 people on duty at any one time, so 9 people per
station, 45 stations)

Yeah, clearly an impossibility as demonstrated by it being done by LU and
virtually every TOC in the country now.

And its not like the DLR has had to extend its train lengths twice and is
absolutely rammed so gets little income from the fare pot.

[Someone Somewhere]

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 2 Jul 2018 13:14:04 +0100

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com

Post by Someone Somewhere
Because then you'd have to staff every station, and one person isn't
sufficient so you'd need a second, then for every person you'd need 4 to
cover all the shifts and then you'd have to install the gateline
hardware and make sure there was sufficient circulation room to avoid
crushes at the gateline and so on and so on....

I can't see anyone having a problem with more staff at DLR stations. Except
maybe the franchise operators shareholders. Who is running it this week
anyway?

Yeah - pity about the £12M per annum staff only cost , let alone the
cost of running the gateline plus staff facilities (where do they go to
the toilet?) and so on.
(before you question it, £30k per person, 4.5 people to cover 19 hours
per day all week, 2 people on duty at any one time, so 9 people per
station, 45 stations)

Yeah, clearly an impossibility as demonstrated by it being done by LU and
virtually every TOC in the country now.
And its not like the DLR has had to extend its train lengths twice and is
absolutely rammed so gets little income from the fare pot.

It's not impossible - it's a case of what you'd gain from the spend -
better revenue protection for TfL perhaps, but that's about it.

[b***@cylonHQ.com]

On Mon, 2 Jul 2018 16:05:43 +0100

Post by Someone Somewhere

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 2 Jul 2018 13:14:04 +0100

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com

Post by Someone Somewhere
Because then you'd have to staff every station, and one person isn't
sufficient so you'd need a second, then for every person you'd need 4 to
cover all the shifts and then you'd have to install the gateline
hardware and make sure there was sufficient circulation room to avoid
crushes at the gateline and so on and so on....

I can't see anyone having a problem with more staff at DLR stations. Except
maybe the franchise operators shareholders. Who is running it this week
anyway?

Yeah - pity about the £12M per annum staff only cost , let alone the
cost of running the gateline plus staff facilities (where do they go to
the toilet?) and so on.
(before you question it, £30k per person, 4.5 people to cover 19 hours
per day all week, 2 people on duty at any one time, so 9 people per
station, 45 stations)

Yeah, clearly an impossibility as demonstrated by it being done by LU and
virtually every TOC in the country now.
And its not like the DLR has had to extend its train lengths twice and is
absolutely rammed so gets little income from the fare pot.

It's not impossible - it's a case of what you'd gain from the spend -
better revenue protection for TfL perhaps, but that's about it.

Using that logic ditch the gates at all tube stations. There would be MUCH
better crowd flow in the rush hour.

[Offramp]

There are a few varieties of problem with not touching in on the DLR:

1) Oyster PAYG:
Fail to touch in, succeed in touching out, max fare £8.
Fail to touch in, fail to touch out JACKPOT! You have evaded your fare.

2) Oyster travelcard WITH zone 1:
Fail to touch in, succeed in touching out - normally no problem.

3) Oyster travelcard WITHOUT zone 1:
If you do not travel through zone 1, then no problem.
Travel through zone 1 and touch out JACKPOT! You have saved money.

4) CPC:
Fail to touch in, succeed in touching out, max charge! FAIL!
Fail to touch in, fail to touch out JACKPOT! as before.
Touch in, don't touch out, FAIL, max fare.
Both the fails incur a strike from TfL. Three strikes and card is blacklisted.

[b***@cylonHQ.com]

On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 06:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
CPC?

Both the fails incur a strike from TfL. Three strikes and card is blacklist=
ed.

Three in a row or three in the lifetime of the card? Because I could see the
latter easily happening. I've forgotten to touch in on the DLR a few times in
my life and got screwed for the max fare. I'd be exceedingly pissed off if the
card was stopped too.

I can understand 3 in a row after that guy took the piss on south eastern or
wherever it was where he touched out at some terminus and only paid max tfl
fare instead of whatever it would have been from his station in the sticks.

[Offramp]

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 06:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
CPC?

Contactless Payment Card.

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com

Both the fails incur a strike from TfL. Three strikes and card is blacklist=
ed.

Three in a row or three in the lifetime of the card? Because I could see the
latter easily happening. I've forgotten to touch in on the DLR a few times in
my life and got screwed for the max fare. I'd be exceedingly pissed off if the
card was stopped too.
I can understand 3 in a row after that guy took the piss on south eastern or
wherever it was where he touched out at some terminus and only paid max tfl
fare instead of whatever it would have been from his station in the sticks.

I saw it happen today. A man with a counterfeit ticket saw that a check of tickets was going on so he chose to use his CPC instead.
Therefore his CPC was touched out but not touched in. He will be charged the maximum.

If he does that too often his card will be blacklisted and he will have to use another account.

[Jarle Hammen Knudsen]

On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 07:38:52 -0700 (PDT), Offramp

Post by Offramp
I saw it happen today. A man with a counterfeit ticket saw that a check of tickets was going on so he chose to use his CPC instead.
Therefore his CPC was touched out but not touched in. He will be charged the maximum.
If he does that too often his card will be blacklisted and he will have to use another account.

Can it be un-blacklisted? How?

[Offramp]

Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
Can it be un-blacklisted? How?

By opening a different account and thereby getting a different Visa/Debit card. Or simply by using an Oyster card. It is not a disaster.

[David Cantrell]

Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 06:35:19 -0700 (PDT)

Both the fails incur a strike from TfL. Three strikes and card is blacklist=
ed.

Three in a row or three in the lifetime of the card? Because I could see the
latter easily happening. I've forgotten to touch in on the DLR a few times in
my life and got screwed for the max fare. I'd be exceedingly pissed off if the
card was stopped too.

Assuming that the failure-to-read rate is the same for contactless
credit cards as it is for oyster cards it would have to be three in a
row. My Oyster card generally has at least one failure-to-read (or
possibly failure to communicate back to TfL that it has read) per month.

[matthew3774]

On Tuesday, 26 June 2018 21:57:28 UTC+1, matthew3774 wrote:-
I used the DLR yesterday and seeing no barriers or anywhere where I
needed to tap my Oyster card I didn’t do so. How are you meant t
use
the DLR as I assume it’s not free?
And will I be fined? -
If you touched out you will be charged the maximum fare for the journey
£8.00. I can't imagine how you missed the Oyster card readers.
-
Earlier I went from Victoria to Tower Hill and the
barrier was stuck open at Victoria -
So there is only one gate at Victoria and it was open. And it has jus
been completely redesigned! Obviously very badly.
-
so I went through but my debit card-
What made you switch from the Oyster card?
-
didn’t work at Tower Hill so the guy tried it for me and asked how I
managed to get on the train which I told him.-
You card has almost certainly been blacklisted. Contact TfL custome
services to have it (possibly) re-whitelisted.
-
He said I would need to buy an Oyster card or something but let me
through, so being confused I left the station as I couldn’t see any
machines to top up my Oyster card with.-
You must have serious observation problems. You couldn't see the Oyste
readers at the DLR station, couldn't see a working gate at Victoria an
couldn't see any ticket machines at Tower Hill.
I imagine your head permanently bowed down into a smartphone.

Let’s dispense with your cynical assumptions since you don’t know me. A
many others have commented the Oyster readers are often well hidden.
neither touched in or out and I’m sure you understand how in a rus
there are people queuing behind so that’s one of the reasons I used th
barrier at Victoria that was still open. The person in front of me ha
just gone through it no problems.

I have no signal on the underground so using my phone would b
pointless, I looked around several times at Tower Hill but couldn’t se
what I was looking for, and the assistants instructions were vague an
he was assisting another customer so I left


--
matthew3774

[David Cantrell]

I have no signal on the underground so using my phone would be
pointless

Modern phones don't need a signal to be useful.

[Optimist]

On Tuesday, 26 June 2018 21:57:28 UTC+1, matthew3774 wrote:-
I used the DLR yesterday and seeing no barriers or anywhere where I
needed to tap my Oyster card I didn’t do so. How are you meant to
use
the DLR as I assume it’s not free?
And will I be fined? -
If you touched out you will be charged the maximum fare for the journey,
£8.00. I can't imagine how you missed the Oyster card readers.
-
Earlier I went from Victoria to Tower Hill and the
barrier was stuck open at Victoria -
So there is only one gate at Victoria and it was open. And it has just
been completely redesigned! Obviously very badly.
-
so I went through but my debit card-
What made you switch from the Oyster card?
-
didn’t work at Tower Hill so the guy tried it for me and asked how I
managed to get on the train which I told him.-
You card has almost certainly been blacklisted. Contact TfL customer
services to have it (possibly) re-whitelisted.
-
He said I would need to buy an Oyster card or something but let me
through, so being confused I left the station as I couldn’t see any
machines to top up my Oyster card with.-
You must have serious observation problems. You couldn't see the Oyster
readers at the DLR station, couldn't see a working gate at Victoria and
couldn't see any ticket machines at Tower Hill.
I imagine your head permanently bowed down into a smartphone.

Let’s dispense with your cynical assumptions since you don’t know me. As
many others have commented the Oyster readers are often well hidden. I
neither touched in or out and I’m sure you understand how in a rush
there are people queuing behind so that’s one of the reasons I used the
barrier at Victoria that was still open. The person in front of me had
just gone through it no problems.
I have no signal on the underground so using my phone would be
pointless, I looked around several times at Tower Hill but couldn’t see
what I was looking for, and the assistants instructions were vague and
he was assisting another customer so I left.

Signage on the DLR is atrocious. Last year I needed to connect between Stratford and Stratford
International, involving using the DLR. There was no useful clear signage for Stratford
International so I went through the gateline, which I found was a mistake so had to go back which
was difficult as the system didn't want to accept my National Rail ticket - in desperation I just
pushed myself and my suitcase through. It must have taken me at least 15 minutes to find the
correct DLR platform, after visiting 6 of them, involving going up and down escalators several times
with luggage.