Discussion:
"MARS: The Martian Autonomous Republic of Sol (The New Frontiers Series)" by Jack L Knapp
(too old to reply)
Lynn McGuire
2019-10-26 20:20:38 UTC
Permalink
"MARS: The Martian Autonomous Republic of Sol (The New Frontiers
Series)" by Jack L Knapp

https://www.amazon.com/MARS-Martian-Autonomous-Republic-Frontiers/dp/1719829152/

Book number five of a six book space opera series. I read the well
printed and bound POD (print on demand) trade paperback self published
by the author. I am reading book six now. I have no idea if a book
seven will be published as the author is working on two other series, an
alternate universe series and an ESP series.

Wow, great story series. An older engineer buys a bunch of Nikola
Tesla's journals in an old chest and spots a design for an "electric
impeller" that was never built. He built a working version of the
electric impeller after many restarts and has a electric propulsion
device. The series is about the usage of the electric impellers to
build space ships, a Moon base, a Mars base, and various peoples and
countries trying to steal the design. And aliens.

This book is specifically about New Frontiers, Inc. completing the move
to Mars with hundreds of thousands of employees / settlers and their
space ship manufacturing facilities. Earth has grown too over populated
and too political. And the Flickers have established a colony on Mars
also. And the Flickers are not quite as pacifistic as they seem to be.

BTW, this is not the first time that a story has been written similar to
this. Many stories have "magical" engines for space drives. A very
similar book is John Varley's most excellent _Red Thunder_ which uses
the magical squeezer drive. The reason why I like these stories so much
is that it is not just the new drive device, it is also the design and
work to build the various containers around the new device. And the
resulting societal changes from the revolutionary technological changes.

My rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (11 reviews)

Lynn
Robert Carnegie
2019-10-26 22:18:40 UTC
Permalink
I would withhold at least one star for founding a state
on Mars and calling it "The Martian Autonomous Republic
of Sol".

On the other hand, I'm writing from the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and you're in
the United States of America. These are not good names,
objectively. I'm voting for Scottish independence:
I don't know what can be done on your side.
Default User
2019-10-26 22:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
I would withhold at least one star for founding a state
on Mars and calling it "The Martian Autonomous Republic
of Sol".
They were going for the backronym, of course.


Brian
Robert Carnegie
2019-10-27 13:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Default User
Post by Robert Carnegie
I would withhold at least one star for founding a state
on Mars and calling it "The Martian Autonomous Republic
of Sol".
They were going for the backronym, of course.
I perceive you're not defending them. :-) Why not
"The Mercantile Areolar Republic"?

I tried to ask Google for the correct possessive form
for Ares and I got arguments about what to do with
an apostrophe, which isn't what I meant, so I made do.
James Nicoll
2019-10-27 15:27:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Default User
Post by Robert Carnegie
I would withhold at least one star for founding a state
on Mars and calling it "The Martian Autonomous Republic
of Sol".
They were going for the backronym, of course.
I perceive you're not defending them. :-) Why not
"The Mercantile Areolar Republic"?
People might think it had something todo with nipples.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Paul S Person
2019-10-27 16:34:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 06:23:05 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Default User
Post by Robert Carnegie
I would withhold at least one star for founding a state
on Mars and calling it "The Martian Autonomous Republic
of Sol".
They were going for the backronym, of course.
I perceive you're not defending them. :-) Why not
"The Mercantile Areolar Republic"?
I tried to ask Google for the correct possessive form
for Ares and I got arguments about what to do with
an apostrophe, which isn't what I meant, so I made do.
"ares Greek genitive" produces (in transcription) "Areos", the "o"
being omega.

But that would give us "The Mercantale Areos Republic", which ...
isn't English.

Perhaps "Arean". You know, like "Tuscan". And others.

And you forgot the word starting with "S" to produce the same result.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Kevrob
2019-10-28 16:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 06:23:05 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Default User
Post by Robert Carnegie
I would withhold at least one star for founding a state
on Mars and calling it "The Martian Autonomous Republic
of Sol".
They were going for the backronym, of course.
I perceive you're not defending them. :-) Why not
"The Mercantile Areolar Republic"?
I tried to ask Google for the correct possessive form
for Ares and I got arguments about what to do with
an apostrophe, which isn't what I meant, so I made do.
"ares Greek genitive" produces (in transcription) "Areos", the "o"
being omega.
But that would give us "The Mercantale Areos Republic", which ...
isn't English.
Perhaps "Arean". You know, like "Tuscan". And others.
And you forgot the word starting with "S" to produce the same result.
"...in SPAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!!"

Kevin R
Lynn McGuire
2019-10-27 01:32:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
I would withhold at least one star for founding a state
on Mars and calling it "The Martian Autonomous Republic
of Sol".
On the other hand, I'm writing from the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and you're in
the United States of America. These are not good names,
I don't know what can be done on your side.
I thought that the acronym of MARS on Mars was cute.

Lynn
Quadibloc
2019-10-27 03:15:53 UTC
Permalink
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.

So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2019-10-27 03:43:45 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
Post by Quadibloc
John Savard
Kevrob
2019-10-27 11:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage and Law-Enforcement
Division, in the original.

Compares to United Network Command for Law and Enforcement,
SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge
and Extortion.

SMERSH was not an initialism, however, and was also
a real organization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH

Kevin R
J. Clarke
2019-10-27 12:37:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage and Law-Enforcement
Division, in the original.
Compares to United Network Command for Law and Enforcement,
SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge
and Extortion.
They apparently didn't even try to come up with words to go with
"THRUSH", "KAOS", or "CONTROL".
Post by Kevrob
SMERSH was not an initialism, however, and was also
a real organization.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH
Kevin R
Quadibloc
2019-10-27 13:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
They apparently didn't even try to come up with words to go with
"THRUSH", "KAOS", or "CONTROL".
Yes, I agree that KAOS and CONTROL were never shown to be abbreviations over the
life of the Get Smart television series to my knowledge.

I never watched "The Man from UNCLE", but I'm surprised to hear this about THRUSH
given that UNCLE was an abbreviation.

John Savard
Quadibloc
2019-10-27 14:03:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by J. Clarke
They apparently didn't even try to come up with words to go with
"THRUSH", "KAOS", or "CONTROL".
Yes, I agree that KAOS and CONTROL were never shown to be abbreviations over the
life of the Get Smart television series to my knowledge.
I never watched "The Man from UNCLE", but I'm surprised to hear this about THRUSH
given that UNCLE was an abbreviation.
A Google search allowed me to learn that in the *novelization* of The Man from
U.N.C.L.E., but not in the actual series, THRUSH was revealed to be the
Technological Hierarchy for the Removal of Undesirables and the Subjugation of
Humanity.

John Savard
Robert Carnegie
2019-10-27 14:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage and Law-Enforcement
Division, in the original.
Compares to United Network Command for Law and Enforcement,
SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge
and Extortion.
They apparently didn't even try to come up with words to go with
"THRUSH", "KAOS", or "CONTROL".
Well, there is one given at
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_U.N.C.L.E.#THRUSH>
but not (except in that sense) on screen - nor in the
recent film?
Paul S Person
2019-10-27 16:42:04 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 07:43:22 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage and Law-Enforcement
Division, in the original.
Compares to United Network Command for Law and Enforcement,
SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge
and Extortion.
They apparently didn't even try to come up with words to go with
"THRUSH", "KAOS", or "CONTROL".
Well, there is one given at
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_U.N.C.L.E.#THRUSH>
but not (except in that sense) on screen - nor in the
recent film?
I saw it, but it's been a while. I wasn't impressed.

I seem to recall it was more concerned with getting the two agents to
work together without actually killing each other to actually have
them do anything worth watching.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Gary R. Schmidt
2019-10-28 12:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage and Law-Enforcement
Division, in the original.
Compares to United Network Command for Law and Enforcement,
SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge
and Extortion.
They apparently didn't even try to come up with words to go with
"THRUSH", "KAOS", or "CONTROL".
Well, there is one given at
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_U.N.C.L.E.#THRUSH>
but not (except in that sense) on screen - nor in the
recent film?
I recall "Technological Hierarchy for the Removal of Undesirables and
the Subjugation of Humanity" from (at least one of) the paperbacks...

Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
James Nicoll
2019-10-28 15:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage and Law-Enforcement
Division, in the original.
Compares to United Network Command for Law and Enforcement,
SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge
and Extortion.
They apparently didn't even try to come up with words to go with
"THRUSH", "KAOS", or "CONTROL".
Well, there is one given at
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_U.N.C.L.E.#THRUSH>
but not (except in that sense) on screen - nor in the
recent film?
I recall "Technological Hierarchy for the Removal of Undesirables and
the Subjugation of Humanity" from (at least one of) the paperbacks...
Don't forget "The Higher United Nations Defense Enforcement Reserves". Everyone
gets a super-power! At a terrible cost: risk of heart failure, accelerated
aging, having one's moral compass reset from EVIL! to good....

(OK, Noman got a pretty sweet deal: virtually unkillable at the minor cost
of his humanity, and he was dying when he got turned into an android so it's
not like he had great options to begin with)
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Kevrob
2019-10-28 16:49:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Gary R. Schmidt
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage and Law-Enforcement
Division, in the original.
Compares to United Network Command for Law and Enforcement,
SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge
and Extortion.
They apparently didn't even try to come up with words to go with
"THRUSH", "KAOS", or "CONTROL".
Well, there is one given at
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_U.N.C.L.E.#THRUSH>
but not (except in that sense) on screen - nor in the
recent film?
I recall "Technological Hierarchy for the Removal of Undesirables and
the Subjugation of Humanity" from (at least one of) the paperbacks...
Don't forget "The Higher United Nations Defense Enforcement Reserves". Everyone
gets a super-power! At a terrible cost: risk of heart failure, accelerated
aging, having one's moral compass reset from EVIL! to good....
(OK, Noman got a pretty sweet deal: virtually unkillable at the minor cost
of his humanity, and he was dying when he got turned into an android so it's
not like he had great options to begin with)
The "THUNDER Squad" did not get superpowers,
except for Guy Gilbert, who became Lightning.

Kevin R
p***@hotmail.com
2019-10-27 21:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage and Law-Enforcement
Division, in the original.
Compares to United Network Command for Law and Enforcement,
SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge
and Extortion.
SMERSH was not an initialism, however, and was also
a real organization.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH
Technological Hierarchy for the Removal of Undesirables and the
Subjugation of Humanity

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
J. Clarke
2019-10-28 05:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Kevrob
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage and Law-Enforcement
Division, in the original.
Compares to United Network Command for Law and Enforcement,
SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge
and Extortion.
SMERSH was not an initialism, however, and was also
a real organization.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH
Technological Hierarchy for the Removal of Undesirables and the
Subjugation of Humanity
Methinks you overtrimmed.
Paul S Person
2019-10-27 16:39:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.

"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team. In fact, some football teams have more meaning, being related to
historical figures.

Not to mention "unobtanium", the ultimate example of brain-dead
naming. IMHO, of course.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Quadibloc
2019-10-27 18:24:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
Not to mention "unobtanium", the ultimate example of brain-dead
naming. IMHO, of course.
My understanding is that "unobtanium" originated as a slang term for titanium.

Before Russia started exporting it, one didn't see titanium in civilian
applications, as the U.S. had extremely limited resources of it, which all went
to only the most critical of military applications. (The slang term originated
among workers connected with the slightly less critical military applications
that had to do without.)

The problem with this is:

- The United States had plenty of titanium oxide for use as an artist's pigment.

- Russia's mineral resources of titanium used for producing the metal were _the
same kind of titanium oxide_, so it wasn't the case that this titanium oxide was
basically too difficult to extract the metal from, and Russia had an appropriate
ore for producing the metal while the United States didn't.

The conclusion would be some sort of secret government conspiracy, but I'm
afraid I don't have the kind of mind that is able to think of a plausible one
for this situation.

Instead, no doubt I'm just missing some basic fact with which to make sense out
of the facts I had learned.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2019-10-27 18:33:02 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to mention "unobtanium", the ultimate example of brain-dead
naming. IMHO, of course.
My understanding is that "unobtanium" originated as a slang term for titanium.
Before Russia started exporting it, one didn't see titanium in civilian
applications, as the U.S. had extremely limited resources of it, which all went
to only the most critical of military applications. (The slang term originated
among workers connected with the slightly less critical military applications
that had to do without.)
- The United States had plenty of titanium oxide for use as an artist's pigment.
- Russia's mineral resources of titanium used for producing the metal were _the
same kind of titanium oxide_, so it wasn't the case that this titanium oxide was
basically too difficult to extract the metal from, and Russia had an appropriate
ore for producing the metal while the United States didn't.
The conclusion would be some sort of secret government conspiracy, but I'm
afraid I don't have the kind of mind that is able to think of a plausible one
for this situation.
Instead, no doubt I'm just missing some basic fact with which to make sense out
of the facts I had learned.
Mostly, it's just expensive and complicated to refine and a pain in
the butt to work with.
Quadibloc
2019-10-27 19:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Mostly, it's just expensive and complicated to refine and a pain in
the butt to work with.
That makes sense.

Given their history, that the Russians might have a higher tolerance to pain
would be reasonable.

Of course, it's ironic that Sauron's domain in the East is the mithril capital
of the world, quite unlike what the books would have one believe...

John Savard
Paul S Person
2019-10-28 16:55:46 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to mention "unobtanium", the ultimate example of brain-dead
naming. IMHO, of course.
My understanding is that "unobtanium" originated as a slang term for titanium.
Before Russia started exporting it, one didn't see titanium in civilian
applications, as the U.S. had extremely limited resources of it, which all went
to only the most critical of military applications. (The slang term originated
among workers connected with the slightly less critical military applications
that had to do without.)
- The United States had plenty of titanium oxide for use as an artist's pigment.
- Russia's mineral resources of titanium used for producing the metal were _the
same kind of titanium oxide_, so it wasn't the case that this titanium oxide was
basically too difficult to extract the metal from, and Russia had an appropriate
ore for producing the metal while the United States didn't.
The conclusion would be some sort of secret government conspiracy, but I'm
afraid I don't have the kind of mind that is able to think of a plausible one
for this situation.
Instead, no doubt I'm just missing some basic fact with which to make sense out
of the facts I had learned.
And google turns up

"In fiction, engineering, and thought experiments, unobtainium is any
fictional, extremely rare, costly, or impossible material, or (less
commonly) device needed to fulfill a given design for a given
application."

But I still think it was the height of stupidity to use it for
something clearly /could/ be obtained.

Which, BTW, was the whole point of the movie.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Jerry Brown
2019-10-28 19:19:04 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 09:55:46 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to mention "unobtanium", the ultimate example of brain-dead
naming. IMHO, of course.
My understanding is that "unobtanium" originated as a slang term for titanium.
Before Russia started exporting it, one didn't see titanium in civilian
applications, as the U.S. had extremely limited resources of it, which all went
to only the most critical of military applications. (The slang term originated
among workers connected with the slightly less critical military applications
that had to do without.)
- The United States had plenty of titanium oxide for use as an artist's pigment.
- Russia's mineral resources of titanium used for producing the metal were _the
same kind of titanium oxide_, so it wasn't the case that this titanium oxide was
basically too difficult to extract the metal from, and Russia had an appropriate
ore for producing the metal while the United States didn't.
The conclusion would be some sort of secret government conspiracy, but I'm
afraid I don't have the kind of mind that is able to think of a plausible one
for this situation.
Instead, no doubt I'm just missing some basic fact with which to make sense out
of the facts I had learned.
And google turns up
"In fiction, engineering, and thought experiments, unobtainium is any
fictional, extremely rare, costly, or impossible material, or (less
commonly) device needed to fulfill a given design for a given
application."
But I still think it was the height of stupidity to use it for
something clearly /could/ be obtained.
Which, BTW, was the whole point of the movie.
"The Core" or "Avatar"? Both featured unobtanium.
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Paul S Person
2019-10-29 17:27:52 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 19:19:04 +0000, Jerry Brown
Post by Jerry Brown
On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 09:55:46 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to mention "unobtanium", the ultimate example of brain-dead
naming. IMHO, of course.
My understanding is that "unobtanium" originated as a slang term for titanium.
Before Russia started exporting it, one didn't see titanium in civilian
applications, as the U.S. had extremely limited resources of it, which all went
to only the most critical of military applications. (The slang term originated
among workers connected with the slightly less critical military applications
that had to do without.)
- The United States had plenty of titanium oxide for use as an artist's pigment.
- Russia's mineral resources of titanium used for producing the metal were _the
same kind of titanium oxide_, so it wasn't the case that this titanium oxide was
basically too difficult to extract the metal from, and Russia had an appropriate
ore for producing the metal while the United States didn't.
The conclusion would be some sort of secret government conspiracy, but I'm
afraid I don't have the kind of mind that is able to think of a plausible one
for this situation.
Instead, no doubt I'm just missing some basic fact with which to make sense out
of the facts I had learned.
And google turns up
"In fiction, engineering, and thought experiments, unobtainium is any
fictional, extremely rare, costly, or impossible material, or (less
commonly) device needed to fulfill a given design for a given
application."
But I still think it was the height of stupidity to use it for
something clearly /could/ be obtained.
Which, BTW, was the whole point of the movie.
"The Core" or "Avatar"? Both featured unobtanium.
Avatar
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Juho Julkunen
2019-10-28 21:16:03 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, psperson1
@ix.netcom.invalid says...
Post by Paul S Person
"In fiction, engineering, and thought experiments, unobtainium is any
fictional, extremely rare, costly, or impossible material, or (less
commonly) device needed to fulfill a given design for a given
application."
But I still think it was the height of stupidity to use it for
something clearly /could/ be obtained.
Reallyhardtoacquireium just didn't have the same ring.

I believe there are a number of substances whose names aren't
completely literal.
--
Juho Julkunen
the ring was made of scrith
Robert Carnegie
2019-10-28 22:17:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to mention "unobtanium", the ultimate example of brain-dead
naming. IMHO, of course.
My understanding is that "unobtanium" originated as a slang term for titanium.
Before Russia started exporting it, one didn't see titanium in civilian
applications, as the U.S. had extremely limited resources of it, which all went
to only the most critical of military applications. (The slang term originated
among workers connected with the slightly less critical military applications
that had to do without.)
- The United States had plenty of titanium oxide for use as an artist's pigment.
- Russia's mineral resources of titanium used for producing the metal were _the
same kind of titanium oxide_, so it wasn't the case that this titanium oxide was
basically too difficult to extract the metal from, and Russia had an appropriate
ore for producing the metal while the United States didn't.
The conclusion would be some sort of secret government conspiracy, but I'm
afraid I don't have the kind of mind that is able to think of a plausible one
for this situation.
Instead, no doubt I'm just missing some basic fact with which to make sense out
of the facts I had learned.
And google turns up
"In fiction, engineering, and thought experiments, unobtainium is any
fictional, extremely rare, costly, or impossible material, or (less
commonly) device needed to fulfill a given design for a given
application."
But I still think it was the height of stupidity to use it for
something clearly /could/ be obtained.
Which, BTW, was the whole point of the movie.
"Pandorum" was taken.

Wikipedia on Avatar appears to have "unobtanium"
by mistake; can someone corroborate, correct, and
confirm that, please? I thought "Oh, that's
clever... waitaminute."
Paul S Person
2019-10-29 17:30:13 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 15:17:26 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to mention "unobtanium", the ultimate example of brain-dead
naming. IMHO, of course.
My understanding is that "unobtanium" originated as a slang term for titanium.
Before Russia started exporting it, one didn't see titanium in civilian
applications, as the U.S. had extremely limited resources of it, which all went
to only the most critical of military applications. (The slang term originated
among workers connected with the slightly less critical military applications
that had to do without.)
- The United States had plenty of titanium oxide for use as an artist's pigment.
- Russia's mineral resources of titanium used for producing the metal were _the
same kind of titanium oxide_, so it wasn't the case that this titanium oxide was
basically too difficult to extract the metal from, and Russia had an appropriate
ore for producing the metal while the United States didn't.
The conclusion would be some sort of secret government conspiracy, but I'm
afraid I don't have the kind of mind that is able to think of a plausible one
for this situation.
Instead, no doubt I'm just missing some basic fact with which to make sense out
of the facts I had learned.
And google turns up
"In fiction, engineering, and thought experiments, unobtainium is any
fictional, extremely rare, costly, or impossible material, or (less
commonly) device needed to fulfill a given design for a given
application."
But I still think it was the height of stupidity to use it for
something clearly /could/ be obtained.
Which, BTW, was the whole point of the movie.
"Pandorum" was taken.
Wikipedia on Avatar appears to have "unobtanium"
by mistake; can someone corroborate, correct, and
confirm that, please? I thought "Oh, that's
clever... waitaminute."
Looks pretty much at home here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(2009_film)
what mistake did you see?
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Robert Carnegie
2019-10-29 20:06:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 15:17:26 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to mention "unobtanium", the ultimate example of brain-dead
naming. IMHO, of course.
My understanding is that "unobtanium" originated as a slang term for titanium.
Before Russia started exporting it, one didn't see titanium in civilian
applications, as the U.S. had extremely limited resources of it, which all went
to only the most critical of military applications. (The slang term originated
among workers connected with the slightly less critical military applications
that had to do without.)
- The United States had plenty of titanium oxide for use as an artist's pigment.
- Russia's mineral resources of titanium used for producing the metal were _the
same kind of titanium oxide_, so it wasn't the case that this titanium oxide was
basically too difficult to extract the metal from, and Russia had an appropriate
ore for producing the metal while the United States didn't.
The conclusion would be some sort of secret government conspiracy, but I'm
afraid I don't have the kind of mind that is able to think of a plausible one
for this situation.
Instead, no doubt I'm just missing some basic fact with which to make sense out
of the facts I had learned.
And google turns up
"In fiction, engineering, and thought experiments, unobtainium is any
fictional, extremely rare, costly, or impossible material, or (less
commonly) device needed to fulfill a given design for a given
application."
But I still think it was the height of stupidity to use it for
something clearly /could/ be obtained.
Which, BTW, was the whole point of the movie.
"Pandorum" was taken.
Wikipedia on Avatar appears to have "unobtanium"
by mistake; can someone corroborate, correct, and
confirm that, please? I thought "Oh, that's
clever... waitaminute."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(2009_film)
what mistake did you see?
Spelling: but <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium>,
now I look closer, says that _Avatar_ does specifically
use "unobtanium", not "unobtainium", although it also
says "in dialogue" so it seems tricky to tell which.
Robert Carnegie
2019-10-29 20:27:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Paul S Person
On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 15:17:26 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
Not to mention "unobtanium", the ultimate example of brain-dead
naming. IMHO, of course.
My understanding is that "unobtanium" originated as a slang term for titanium.
Before Russia started exporting it, one didn't see titanium in civilian
applications, as the U.S. had extremely limited resources of it, which all went
to only the most critical of military applications. (The slang term originated
among workers connected with the slightly less critical military applications
that had to do without.)
- The United States had plenty of titanium oxide for use as an artist's pigment.
- Russia's mineral resources of titanium used for producing the metal were _the
same kind of titanium oxide_, so it wasn't the case that this titanium oxide was
basically too difficult to extract the metal from, and Russia had an appropriate
ore for producing the metal while the United States didn't.
The conclusion would be some sort of secret government conspiracy, but I'm
afraid I don't have the kind of mind that is able to think of a plausible one
for this situation.
Instead, no doubt I'm just missing some basic fact with which to make sense out
of the facts I had learned.
And google turns up
"In fiction, engineering, and thought experiments, unobtainium is any
fictional, extremely rare, costly, or impossible material, or (less
commonly) device needed to fulfill a given design for a given
application."
But I still think it was the height of stupidity to use it for
something clearly /could/ be obtained.
Which, BTW, was the whole point of the movie.
"Pandorum" was taken.
Wikipedia on Avatar appears to have "unobtanium"
by mistake; can someone corroborate, correct, and
confirm that, please? I thought "Oh, that's
clever... waitaminute."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(2009_film)
what mistake did you see?
Spelling: but <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium>,
now I look closer, says that _Avatar_ does specifically
use "unobtanium", not "unobtainium", although it also
says "in dialogue" so it seems tricky to tell which.
...<https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Unobtainium>
does not say that, though.
Moriarty
2019-10-27 22:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.

Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.

-Moriarty
Robert Carnegie
2019-10-28 00:50:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Taken though.
<https://adamnostalgia.wordpress.com/tag/the-preventers/>

Note that this article refers to the British "Avengers",
which started as a tough thriller series broadcast live,
and ended up as an extremely urbane spy-guy and a series
of girlfriends investigating silly but deadly criminal
or foreign plots, such as extracting secrets from
defence sites by going in to clean the windows.
Post by Moriarty
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
Computer news web site "The Register" recently produced
a feature that attracted readers comments indicating
that this has been tried by approximately everybody.
Presumably including me... well, I did pose, I mean post,
as a _Girl Genius_ co-star character fan club of one
member, named "Tarvek Will Astound Them".
Moriarty
2019-10-28 01:30:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Taken though.
<https://adamnostalgia.wordpress.com/tag/the-preventers/>
Note that this article refers to the British "Avengers",
which started as a tough thriller series broadcast live,
and ended up as an extremely urbane spy-guy and a series
of girlfriends investigating silly but deadly criminal
or foreign plots, such as extracting secrets from
defence sites by going in to clean the windows.
Post by Moriarty
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
Computer news web site "The Register" recently produced
a feature that attracted readers comments indicating
that this has been tried by approximately everybody.
I didn't for one minute imagine I was being original.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Presumably including me... well, I did pose, I mean post,
as a _Girl Genius_ co-star character fan club of one
member, named "Tarvek Will Astound Them".
ObSF: Society for the Promotion of Elfish Welfare.

-Moriarty
J. Clarke
2019-10-28 06:06:55 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 17:50:54 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Taken though.
<https://adamnostalgia.wordpress.com/tag/the-preventers/>
Note that this article refers to the British "Avengers",
which started as a tough thriller series broadcast live,
and ended up as an extremely urbane spy-guy and a series
of girlfriends investigating silly but deadly criminal
or foreign plots, such as extracting secrets from
defence sites by going in to clean the windows.
I never saw any evidence that Cathy Gale was a "girlfriend". They did
make the relationship with Emma Peel rather ambiguous. I lost interst
two episodes into Tara-Ra-Boom-Deay, not because of any relationship
issues but because Tara was lacking in m appeal. I understand that
Cathy Gale was much like Ripley in "Alien"--it was originally a male
part and they didn't change the script when they cast a woman in it.
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
Computer news web site "The Register" recently produced
a feature that attracted readers comments indicating
that this has been tried by approximately everybody.
Presumably including me... well, I did pose, I mean post,
as a _Girl Genius_ co-star character fan club of one
member, named "Tarvek Will Astound Them".
Paul S Person
2019-10-28 17:04:50 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 02:06:55 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 17:50:54 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Taken though.
<https://adamnostalgia.wordpress.com/tag/the-preventers/>
Note that this article refers to the British "Avengers",
which started as a tough thriller series broadcast live,
and ended up as an extremely urbane spy-guy and a series
of girlfriends investigating silly but deadly criminal
or foreign plots, such as extracting secrets from
defence sites by going in to clean the windows.
I never saw any evidence that Cathy Gale was a "girlfriend". They did
make the relationship with Emma Peel rather ambiguous. I lost interst
two episodes into Tara-Ra-Boom-Deay, not because of any relationship
issues but because Tara was lacking in m appeal. I understand that
Cathy Gale was much like Ripley in "Alien"--it was originally a male
part and they didn't change the script when they cast a woman in it.
I found the whole "Mother" thing incredibly dumb. Tara King was nice
to look at, though.

I have what was (and still may be) the complete Steed/Peele collection
from a couple of decades ago on DVD. I've watched it so often I can't
tell any more which ones I saw on TV and which ones I didn't!

And writing for a male and then casting a female certainly worked for
Ripley! Although, had they cast a male, they would have violated one
of the rules for monster-on-spaceship movies: if there is only one
girl, she survives. Of course, the film violated the second rule
anyway: if a girl survives, so does the guy she is sweet on.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Moriarty
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
Computer news web site "The Register" recently produced
a feature that attracted readers comments indicating
that this has been tried by approximately everybody.
Presumably including me... well, I did pose, I mean post,
as a _Girl Genius_ co-star character fan club of one
member, named "Tarvek Will Astound Them".
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Paul S Person
2019-10-28 16:58:16 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
So cool they have to use "Marvel's Avengers" with the movies,
presumably because the name is trademarked by the BBC.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Kevrob
2019-10-28 17:04:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
So cool they have to use "Marvel's Avengers" with the movies,
presumably because the name is trademarked by the BBC.
--
In the UK? Yes, while, when Steel/Peel comics were published
in the US, Gold Key couldn't use a primary AVENGERS logo.

See:

https://www.comics.org/issue/298375/cover/4/

Kevin R
Paul S Person
2019-10-29 17:34:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
So cool they have to use "Marvel's Avengers" with the movies,
presumably because the name is trademarked by the BBC.
--
In the UK? Yes, while, when Steel/Peel comics were published
in the US, Gold Key couldn't use a primary AVENGERS logo.
I suspect the movies are intended to play in the UK, and the tendency
is to use the same title in all regions using the same language.

The first Harry Potter film notwithstanding. The name change there
follows the book, and (IIRC) was insisted on by Scholastic since they
didn't think American kids were smart enough to figure the Brit stuff
out.

This is, of course, the Pabulum Theory of Education.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Quadibloc
2019-10-28 17:15:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
So cool they have to use "Marvel's Avengers" with the movies,
presumably because the name is trademarked by the BBC.
Surely you mean ITV chennel four...

On the other hand, the *comic book* had to call itself "John Steed and Emma Peel",
so turnabout is fair play.

John Savard
Kevrob
2019-10-28 18:16:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Paul S Person
So cool they have to use "Marvel's Avengers" with the movies,
presumably because the name is trademarked by the BBC.
Surely you mean ITV chennel four...
Lew Grade & his co.s was a _brand_ here in Leftpondia. They always
ran a credit and fanfare before any of the shows, at least the
syndicated ones, so you knew they might be as cool as Thunderbirds,
etc. I was only nine years old, but I'd have never confused them.
Post by Quadibloc
On the other hand, the *comic book* had to call itself "John Steed and
Emma Peel", so turnabout is fair play.
Kevin R
Robert Carnegie
2019-10-29 20:26:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
So cool they have to use "Marvel's Avengers" with the movies,
presumably because the name is trademarked by the BBC.
Well, in detail: not BBC; and the superhero film
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_%282012_film%29>
is said there to be "Marvel's The Avengers" or just
"The Avengers" in the English-speaking world outside
Britain and Ireland, where it's "Marvel Avengers Assemble".

Should I mention that _The Avengers_ got a film in 1998
and I thought it was all right?
Paul S Person
2019-10-30 16:40:09 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 13:26:31 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
So cool they have to use "Marvel's Avengers" with the movies,
presumably because the name is trademarked by the BBC.
Well, in detail: not BBC; and the superhero film
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_%282012_film%29>
is said there to be "Marvel's The Avengers" or just
"The Avengers" in the English-speaking world outside
Britain and Ireland, where it's "Marvel Avengers Assemble".
Should I mention that _The Avengers_ got a film in 1998
and I thought it was all right?
I saw it, but I found Father to be even worse than Mother.

Then again, "all right" might work, so long as it is accompanied by
shrugged shoulders and so clearly is not a term of commendation.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
J. Clarke
2019-10-31 00:43:12 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 09:40:09 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 13:26:31 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
So cool they have to use "Marvel's Avengers" with the movies,
presumably because the name is trademarked by the BBC.
Well, in detail: not BBC; and the superhero film
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_%282012_film%29>
is said there to be "Marvel's The Avengers" or just
"The Avengers" in the English-speaking world outside
Britain and Ireland, where it's "Marvel Avengers Assemble".
Should I mention that _The Avengers_ got a film in 1998
and I thought it was all right?
I saw it, but I found Father to be even worse than Mother.
Then again, "all right" might work, so long as it is accompanied by
shrugged shoulders and so clearly is not a term of commendation.
My takeaway was that Uma's no Emma.
Paul S Person
2019-10-31 16:25:29 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 20:43:12 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 09:40:09 -0700, Paul S Person
Post by Paul S Person
On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 13:26:31 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Paul S Person
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
So cool they have to use "Marvel's Avengers" with the movies,
presumably because the name is trademarked by the BBC.
Well, in detail: not BBC; and the superhero film
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_%282012_film%29>
is said there to be "Marvel's The Avengers" or just
"The Avengers" in the English-speaking world outside
Britain and Ireland, where it's "Marvel Avengers Assemble".
Should I mention that _The Avengers_ got a film in 1998
and I thought it was all right?
I saw it, but I found Father to be even worse than Mother.
Then again, "all right" might work, so long as it is accompanied by
shrugged shoulders and so clearly is not a term of commendation.
My takeaway was that Uma's no Emma.
Not even close. Steed wasn't very close either.

And I never pictured Emma as a criminal who had to be blackmailed into
working with Steed.

Silly me! I thought she was a married woman whose husband was a
missing world-class explorer.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."
Kevrob
2019-10-31 21:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 20:43:12 -0400, J. Clarke
Not even close. Steed wasn't very close either.
And I never pictured Emma as a criminal who had to be blackmailed into
working with Steed.
Silly me! I thought she was a married woman whose husband was a
missing world-class explorer.
ScarJo as "Black Widow" made a better "Emma Peel" - type.

https://www.comics.org/issue/23710/cover/4/

That catsuit costume goes back at least as far as Tarpe Mills'
"Miss Fury," which ran in the newspapers, but also had comic
books published.

https://www.comics.org/issue/2577/cover/4/

http://toonopedia.com/missfury.htm

Cathy Gale rocked the leather suit on screen even before Modesty Blaise
did in the comic strips, but Marla Drake was the "fashion leader."

Uma came into her own as an action heroine in "Kill Bill," released 5 years later.

They should have used MacNee as an older Steed, then created 2 new agents,
as in "The New Avengers." It might have been nearly as disappointing, but
it wouldn't have besmirched the Rigg-era TV shows. Maybe give John one
Crowning Moment of Awesome fit for a very senior agent.

[quote]

The Avengers was nominated for that year's Razzie Award for Worst Picture,
Worst Director, Worst Screenplay, Worst Supporting Actor (Sean Connery),
Worst Actress (Uma Thurman), Worst Actor (Ralph Fiennes), Worst Screen
Couple (Fiennes and Thurman), and Worst Original Song ("Storm"), winning
only one trophy for Worst Remake or Sequel. Several critics, especially in
the UK, noted that the American production team fatally misunderstood the
symbols of "Britishness" central to The Avengers series, such as the inclusion
of an inexplicable gadget on the dashboard of Steed's Bentley which appeared
to dispense tea, with milk already added.

[/quote] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_(1998_film)#Cast

Glad I never saw this stinker!

Oh, and the Martian Space Party says, "Hi. Not Insane!"

Kevin R
Kevrob
2019-10-29 20:58:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team.
Well, it's definitely a cool name but it doesn't describe what they DO. I suppose because "Preventers" would just sound silly.
Marvel's "Avengers" should have been "The Defenders," while their
original "Defenders" should have been "The Avengers." After all,
they had Namor the Sub-Mariner, whose name is supposed to mean
"The Avenging Son" in Atlantean.

Roy Thomas hung a lampshade on that when his retconned WWII superhero
team featuring Subby, Cap, the Torch and the sidekicks was named "The Invaders."
"Avengers" was considered, but the Prince of Atlantis objected.
Post by Moriarty
Speaking of made-up acronyms, I once suggested to my boss's boss, when the company was restructured to have all IT related personnel and functionality report to him, that his new title could be the Supreme Head of Information Technology. Sadly, he didn't take up this idea.
My comparative politics professor in college, Harry Cantor, used to
refer to generic revolutionary groups as "the underground secret army
for the overthrow of everything." Their motto was "Up with down!
And down with up!"

I doodled a log suitable for a shoulder patch, of a globe, surrounded by
two broad, traffic-sign-style encircling arrows, and the initials USAFOE.
It would have made for a great name for a group of minions for, let us say,
the CXap for, Flagsmasher, or Batman antagonist, Anarky.*

There was the momentary idea of getting T-shirts made, thn it all sputtered
into conceptual art. Beret's with a badge would have been cool.

* Better yet, a Simon and Kirby "Fighting American" story.

Kevin R
Kevrob
2019-10-29 21:14:34 UTC
Permalink
On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 4:58:49 PM UTC-4, Kevrob wrote:

A post full of typos!
Post by Kevrob
I doodled a log
"logo"
Post by Kevrob
suitable for a shoulder patch, of a globe, surrounded by
two broad, traffic-sign-style encircling arrows, and the initials USAFOE.
It would have made for a great name for a group of minions for, let us say,
the CXap for,
"Cap foe"

Flagsmasher, or Batman antagonist, Anarky.*

{You'd think it'd be Anarchy, but, no.)
Post by Kevrob
There was the momentary idea of getting T-shirts made, thn
"then"
Post by Kevrob
it all sputtered
into conceptual art. Beret's
"Berets"

with

/a/ badges
Post by Kevrob
would have been cool.
* Better yet, a Simon and Kirby "Fighting American" story.
Kevin R
Kevrob
2019-11-06 14:37:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevrob
My comparative politics professor in college, Harry Cantor,
Erratum:

Dr Kantor spelled his last name with a "K."

Apologies to his memory.

Kevin (Cevin?) R

Dimensional Traveler
2019-10-29 04:18:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul S Person
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 23:43:45 -0400, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
However, semantically, it is much of a muchness with the Strategic
Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division, the main
meaing of which is that "somebody really badly wanted it to spell
'shield'".
And, a pet peeve, a /lot/ better than "GI Joe" as the name of a
top-secret UN armed force.
"Avengers", by comparison, is much better, even though /Captain
Marvel/ shows that it has no more meaning than the name of a football
team. In fact, some football teams have more meaning, being related to
historical figures.
Not to mention "unobtanium", the ultimate example of brain-dead
naming. IMHO, of course.
"Unobtanium" is a lamp shade.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging
--
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"
Kevrob
2019-10-27 10:56:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
When I saw the name, I figured that *Earth* was the Martian Autonomous Republic of
Sol, cruelly ruled by its colonial masters, the Communist Chinese, who had moved
to Mars.
So, absent the acronym, that it's not a good name is a valid concern.
"Commies From Mars"!!!!!!!

https://www.comics.org/issue/270860/cover/4/

--
Kevin R
a.a #2310
Gene Wirchenko
2019-10-29 01:06:03 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:32:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
I would withhold at least one star for founding a state
on Mars and calling it "The Martian Autonomous Republic
of Sol".
On the other hand, I'm writing from the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and you're in
the United States of America. These are not good names,
I don't know what can be done on your side.
I thought that the acronym of MARS on Mars was cute.
Right. And as you explained, the company is leaving Earth
because ...
The Earth Republic's Really Awful

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Lynn McGuire
2019-10-29 03:16:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:32:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
I would withhold at least one star for founding a state
on Mars and calling it "The Martian Autonomous Republic
of Sol".
On the other hand, I'm writing from the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and you're in
the United States of America. These are not good names,
I don't know what can be done on your side.
I thought that the acronym of MARS on Mars was cute.
Right. And as you explained, the company is leaving Earth
because ...
The Earth Republic's Really Awful
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Groan.

Lynn
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2019-10-29 03:40:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 20:32:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Robert Carnegie
I would withhold at least one star for founding a state
on Mars and calling it "The Martian Autonomous Republic
of Sol".
On the other hand, I'm writing from the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and you're in
the United States of America. These are not good names,
I don't know what can be done on your side.
I thought that the acronym of MARS on Mars was cute.
Right. And as you explained, the company is leaving Earth
because ...
The Earth Republic's Really Awful
Tellus more!
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Lynn McGuire
2019-10-28 19:19:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
"MARS: The Martian Autonomous Republic of Sol (The New Frontiers
Series)" by Jack L Knapp
https://www.amazon.com/MARS-Martian-Autonomous-Republic-Frontiers/dp/1719829152/
Book number five of a six book space opera series.  I read the well
printed and bound POD (print on demand) trade paperback self published
by the author.  I am reading book six now.  I have no idea if a book
seven will be published as the author is working on two other series, an
alternate universe series and an ESP series.
Wow, great story series.  An older engineer buys a bunch of Nikola
Tesla's journals in an old chest and spots a design for an "electric
impeller" that was never built.  He built a working version of the
electric impeller after many restarts and has a electric propulsion
device.  The series is about the usage of the electric impellers to
build space ships, a Moon base, a Mars base, and various peoples and
countries trying to steal the design.  And aliens.
This book is specifically about New Frontiers, Inc. completing the move
to Mars with hundreds of thousands of employees / settlers and their
space ship manufacturing facilities.  Earth has grown too over populated
and too political.  And the Flickers have established a colony on Mars
also.  And the Flickers are not quite as pacifistic as they seem to be.
BTW, this is not the first time that a story has been written similar to
this.  Many stories have "magical" engines for space drives.  A very
similar book is John Varley's most excellent _Red Thunder_ which uses
the magical squeezer drive.  The reason why I like these stories so much
is that it is not just the new drive device, it is also the design and
work to build the various containers around the new device.  And the
resulting societal changes from the revolutionary technological changes.
My rating:  4.5 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars (11 reviews)
Lynn
And I forgot to mention how much that this series reminds me of a
Heinlein juvenile. Not near as well written though. But the story
really hits me right as I would like to see us head out into the Solar
System. And soon, like before I die.

Lynn
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