Hard water - not filtered by water board?

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

The Natural Philosopher

2017-10-12 13:28:02 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

Their pipes don't scale up.

--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 13:29:44 UTC

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

Their pipes don't scale up.

Why not?

--
It's only illegal if you're caught.

Steve Walker

2017-10-12 14:23:01 UTC

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

Their pipes don't scale up.

Not properly scale, but they do get a coating. That is why in soft-water
areas they add phosphates (phosphate dosing) to reduce the absorbtion of
lead from old pipes.

SteveW

Bod

2017-10-12 13:57:04 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.

Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health | Spectator Health
https://health.spectator.co.uk › Heart
3 Nov 2016 - 'Real improvement in magnesium nutrition is seen only where
water is hard,' he says. ... If you live in a hard water area, turning
on the tap instead of reaching for a bottle of water is a good start. If
you must drink bottled water, it's better to choose one enriched with
minerals rather than purged of 'impurities'.

--
Bod

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 13:59:21 UTC

Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?=
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if th=

area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the wa=

ter.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft wate=

doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health | Spectator Hea=

lth

https://health.spectator.co.uk =E2=80=BA Heart
3 Nov 2016 - 'Real improvement in magnesium nutrition is seen only whe=

water is hard,' he says. ... If you live in a hard water area, turning=
on the tap instead of reaching for a bottle of water is a good start. =

you must drink bottled water, it's better to choose one enriched with
minerals rather than purged of 'impurities'.

I'm sure you get all that stuff from food. People make too much fuss a=
bout minerals and vitamins.

-- =

Brazil nuts are an STD. If you eat a Brazil nut then have sex with some=
one who has nut allergies, they will have an allergic reaction.

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:07:44 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften their water. Their kettles don't break. A kettle is too simple a device to care.

--
Brazil nuts are an STD. If you eat a Brazil nut then have sex with someone who has nut allergies, they will have an allergic reaction.

Bod

2017-10-12 14:13:06 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften their
water. Their kettles don't break. A kettle is too simple a device to
care.

Ours don't break, but they are so cheap we buy a new one about every 5-6
years anyway.

--
Bod

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:15:25 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften their
water. Their kettles don't break. A kettle is too simple a device to
care.

Ours don't break, but they are so cheap we buy a new one about every 5-6
years anyway.

Probably cheaper than softening the water.

--
Went to the pub with my girlfriend last night.
Locals were shouting "paedophile!" and other names at me, just because my girlfriend is 21 and I'm 50.
It completely spoilt our 10th anniversary.

alan_m

2017-10-12 14:18:32 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Probably cheaper than softening the water.

In soft water areas kettles just leak after a year or two - scale seals
the leaks.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:24:55 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Probably cheaper than softening the water.

In soft water areas kettles just leak after a year or two - scale seals
the leaks.

I've never known anyone's kettle break after only a year or two, and I'm in a very soft water area. I'd say they last 5 to 10 years.

--
Best Friend Experiment:
Put your dog and your wife in the trunk of the car for an hour.
When you open the trunk, who is really happy to see you!

2017-10-12 15:58:15 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Probably cheaper than softening the water.

In soft water areas kettles just leak after a year or two - scale seals
the leaks.

I've never known anyone's kettle break after only a year or two, and I'm
in a very soft water area. I'd say they last 5 to 10 years.

My kettle is probably about 10 years old. The only "breakage" was temporary
when the thermostat which switches it off when the water boils failed so the
kettle would not stay on. I got used to holding the switch down with the
edge of a plate, and manually switching it off. I tend to make coffee rather
than tea, so I don't want the water to get as high as 100 deg C anyway. One
day I accidentally let the kettle boil for a minute or so before I switched
it off. From then on, the thermostat has worked fine again: the switch now
latches down again and clicks off when the water boils.

But no leaks. I still remember when I first heard about plastic kettles
being developed, in the late 70s, and it made me think of chocolate teapots,
because I though of plastics as things that softened and melted well below
100 deg C - not realising that new types of plastic were being developed
that would withstand that temperature.

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 16:40:04 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Probably cheaper than softening the water.

In soft water areas kettles just leak after a year or two - scale seals
the leaks.

I've never known anyone's kettle break after only a year or two, and I'm
in a very soft water area. I'd say they last 5 to 10 years.

My kettle is probably about 10 years old. The only "breakage" was temporary
when the thermostat which switches it off when the water boils failed so the
kettle would not stay on. I got used to holding the switch down with the
edge of a plate, and manually switching it off. I tend to make coffee rather
than tea, so I don't want the water to get as high as 100 deg C anyway. One
day I accidentally let the kettle boil for a minute or so before I switched
it off. From then on, the thermostat has worked fine again: the switch now
latches down again and clicks off when the water boils.
But no leaks. I still remember when I first heard about plastic kettles
being developed, in the late 70s, and it made me think of chocolate teapots,
because I though of plastics as things that softened and melted well below
100 deg C - not realising that new types of plastic were being developed
that would withstand that temperature.

Had you not heard of bakelite? You could almost put that on a gas stove.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

Steve Walker

2017-10-12 14:25:11 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Probably cheaper than softening the water.

In soft water areas kettles just leak after a year or two - scale seals
the leaks.

Our last kettle lasted 15 years. My parents replaced a 25 year old one
simply because it looked very dated.

SteveW

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:56:17 UTC

Post by Steve Walker

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Probably cheaper than softening the water.

In soft water areas kettles just leak after a year or two - scale seals
the leaks.

Our last kettle lasted 15 years. My parents replaced a 25 year old one
simply because it looked very dated.

Turning one on with no water when it's full of scale makes a big mess.

--
Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.

2017-10-12 16:02:24 UTC

Post by Steve Walker

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Probably cheaper than softening the water.

In soft water areas kettles just leak after a year or two - scale seals
the leaks.

Our last kettle lasted 15 years. My parents replaced a 25 year old one
simply because it looked very dated.

Yes my parents had an old-fashioned kettle - the sort that was low and wide,
rather than tall and narrow like a jug - and it was made of "silver"
(nickel?) plated steel. That worked for as long as I can remember. It may
have been a wedding present, in which case it probably lasted about 25 or 30
years. Like you, I think my parents replaced it for a jug kettle that was
easier to use, turned itself off and didn't leak steam from the lid onto
your hand as you picked it up by the handle to pour it - jug kettles have
the handle at the side rather than in the path of any steam that may come
from the lid/spout.

Graham.

2017-10-12 17:03:48 UTC

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 17:02:24 +0100, "NY" <***@privacy.net> coalesced
the vapors of human experience into a viable and meaningful
comprehension...

Post by Steve Walker

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Probably cheaper than softening the water.

In soft water areas kettles just leak after a year or two - scale seals
the leaks.

Our last kettle lasted 15 years. My parents replaced a 25 year old one
simply because it looked very dated.

Russell Hobbs K2.
If you boiled it dry the big round connector shot out of the socket.

https://www.madaboutthehouse.com/design-classics-21-the-russell-hobbs-k2-kettle/

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

2017-10-12 17:18:17 UTC

Post by Graham.

Post by NY
Yes my parents had an old-fashioned kettle - the sort that was low and wide,
rather than tall and narrow like a jug - and it was made of "silver"
(nickel?) plated steel. That worked for as long as I can remember. It may
have been a wedding present, in which case it probably lasted about 25 or 30
years. Like you, I think my parents replaced it for a jug kettle that was
easier to use, turned itself off and didn't leak steam from the lid onto
your hand as you picked it up by the handle to pour it - jug kettles have
the handle at the side rather than in the path of any steam that may come
from the lid/spout.

Russell Hobbs K2.
If you boiled it dry the big round connector shot out of the socket.
https://www.madaboutthehouse.com/design-classics-21-the-russell-hobbs-k2-kettle/

Yes, similar to that. My parents' kettle didn't even shoot the lead out of
the kettle. I think the difference with theirs was that the handle was solid
Bakelite right from the switch/socket/element connector on the back to the
point where it attached near the spout, rather than having metal rods and
only the handle in Bakelite. I'm wondering whether theirs even had a switch
or whether you needed to switch it off at the wall socket - not sure about
that.

Certainly it had a proprietary mains plug/socket like the K2 rather than IEC
C13/C14 which I tend to refer to as "kettle connectors" because *modern*
kettles have them (as well as most other devices like PC PSUs). As a matter
of interest, what's the name for the "clover-leaf" 3-pin plug/socket that's
used for some laptop-charger mains leads.

Bod

2017-10-12 14:26:57 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Probably cheaper than softening the water.

In soft water areas kettles just leak after a year or two - scale seals
the leaks.

Spot on.

--
Bod

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:55:09 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Probably cheaper than softening the water.

In soft water areas kettles just leak after a year or two - scale seals
the leaks.

Spot on.

My grandfather sealed his with a bar of soap.

--
Is it just a coincidence that Christianity and insanity end with the same letters?

2017-10-12 16:04:08 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Probably cheaper than softening the water.

In soft water areas kettles just leak after a year or two - scale seals
the leaks.

Spot on.

My grandfather sealed his with a bar of soap.

What prevented the soap leeching into the water after that? Obviously he'd
wash out majority of the soap residue fairly well, but I'd have though the
water would always taste very slightly soapy afterwards.

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:15:47 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften their
water. Their kettles don't break. A kettle is too simple a device to
care.

Ours don't break, but they are so cheap we buy a new one about every 5-6
years anyway.

Because you want one a different colour? I hope you give the old one to charity.

--
I was at an ATM yesterday when a little old lady asked if I could check her balance, so I pushed her over.

Bod

2017-10-12 14:25:39 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften their
water. Their kettles don't break. A kettle is too simple a device to
care.

Ours don't break, but they are so cheap we buy a new one about every 5-6
years anyway.

Because you want one a different colour? I hope you give the old one to
charity.

No, but we always offer it to people we think might need one.

--
Bod

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:55:38 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften their
water. Their kettles don't break. A kettle is too simple a device to
care.

Ours don't break, but they are so cheap we buy a new one about every 5-6
years anyway.

Because you want one a different colour? I hope you give the old one to charity.

No, but we always offer it to people we think might need one.

I had the idea you threw things away a lot.

--
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do.. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! ..But He loves you. -- George Carlin

Bod

2017-10-12 15:14:40 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften their
water. Their kettles don't break. A kettle is too simple a device to
care.

Ours don't break, but they are so cheap we buy a new one about every 5-6
years anyway.

Because you want one a different colour? I hope you give the old one to
charity.

No, but we always offer it to people we think might need one.

I had the idea you threw things away a lot.

Not always.
Our local charity shop won't accept second hand electrical goods anyway.

--
Bod

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:55:55 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften their
water. Their kettles don't break. A kettle is too simple a device to
care.

Ours don't break, but they are so cheap we buy a new one about every 5-6
years anyway.

Because you want one a different colour? I hope you give the old one to charity.

No, but we always offer it to people we think might need one.

Does your wife not volunteer in a charity shop?

Bod

2017-10-12 15:15:30 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften their
water. Their kettles don't break. A kettle is too simple a device to
care.

Ours don't break, but they are so cheap we buy a new one about every 5-6
years anyway.

Because you want one a different colour? I hope you give the old one to
charity.

No, but we always offer it to people we think might need one.

Does your wife not volunteer in a charity shop?

She recently packed it up. She'd worked there for over 7 years.

--
Bod

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 16:37:40 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften their
water. Their kettles don't break.

No, but they fur up. Then bits of the fur break off and get into your
tea/coffee.

--
HAL 9000: Dave. Put down those Windows disks. Dave. DAVE!

Bod

2017-10-12 16:47:39 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften
their water. Their kettles don't break.

No, but they fur up. Then bits of the fur break off and get into your
tea/coffee.

They do not. There's a filter on the kettle pourer, a very fine mesh.

--
Bod

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 17:04:07 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften
their water. Their kettles don't break.

No, but they fur up. Then bits of the fur break off and get into your
tea/coffee.

They do not. There's a filter on the kettle pourer, a very fine mesh.

Yes they do. Our such filter fell to pieces as it got furred up.

--
"If you're not able to ask questions and deal with the answers without feeling
that someone has called your intelligence or competence into question, don't
ask questions on Usenet where the answers won't be carefully tailored to avoid
tripping your hair-trigger insecurities." - D M Procida, UCSM

Bod

2017-10-12 17:15:03 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up if the
area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft water
doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften
their water. Their kettles don't break.

No, but they fur up. Then bits of the fur break off and get into your
tea/coffee.

They do not. There's a filter on the kettle pourer, a very fine mesh.

Yes they do. Our such filter fell to pieces as it got furred up.

Ah, that's different. Get a replacement filter.
I clean ours regularly with a soft toothbrush(gently).

--
Bod

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 17:17:53 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

They may want the pipes (or the ones to your house) to scale up
if the area still has a lot of lead. It stops the lead leaching
into the water.

that's true and also hard water contains important minerals. Soft
water doesn't, so hard water is better for you.
Hard water: bad for your kettle, great for your health

Bad for your kettle? I know of people in London who don;t soften
their water. Their kettles don't break.

No, but they fur up. Then bits of the fur break off and get into your
tea/coffee.

They do not. There's a filter on the kettle pourer, a very fine mesh.

Yes they do. Our such filter fell to pieces as it got furred up.

Ah, that's different. Get a replacement filter.
I clean ours regularly with a soft toothbrush(gently).

No available: model too old. Kettle itself works fine, although I could
wish it turned itself off slightly sooner. But it'll soon be moot as we
are getting a boiling water tap.

--
"Hard" and "Soft" Brexit are code words for Leaving or Staying in the EU,
rather than for the terms of our departure.

Jacob Rees-Mogg MP

2017-10-12 12:47:52 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.

And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 12:58:51 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house? Make sure it stays dissolved?

--
Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the creator of human intelligence.

Martin Brown

2017-10-12 13:12:44 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.

It is also expensive and only really matters for some things like making
tea - too much calcium and you get a layer of brown scum on top. The
right hardness matters for coffee too but only affects the taste.

Post by NY
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

Some of them do nothing at all. The magnetic snake oil variety.

The real water softening filters swap calcium ions for sodium and have
to be replaced or recharged from time to time. It is a waste softening
water unless it is for drinking or some other critical usage that
requires soft water. Hard water doesn't corrode pipes and may even seal
minor pinhole leaks - which is a benefit for the water company.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 13:15:38 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

Some of them do nothing at all. The magnetic snake oil variety.
The real water softening filters swap calcium ions for sodium and have
to be replaced or recharged from time to time. It is a waste softening
water unless it is for drinking or some other critical usage that
requires soft water. Hard water doesn't corrode pipes and may even seal
minor pinhole leaks - which is a benefit for the water company.

But if you get continuous deposition in the pipes, after some amount of
time no water flows.

--
"What causes poverty?" Wrong question. Poverty is our primordial state. The
real question is, "What causes wealth?"

Hint: it ain't Socialism.

Martin Brown

2017-10-12 13:43:25 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your
house? Make sure it stays dissolved?

Some of them do nothing at all. The magnetic snake oil variety.
The real water softening filters swap calcium ions for sodium and have
to be replaced or recharged from time to time. It is a waste softening
water unless it is for drinking or some other critical usage that
requires soft water. Hard water doesn't corrode pipes and may even
seal minor pinhole leaks - which is a benefit for the water company.

But if you get continuous deposition in the pipes, after some amount of
time no water flows.

Except in insanely hard water regions it requires evaporation and
exactly the right pH for calcium carbonate to plate out at any speed.
These conditions are not normally met in a pipe unless there is a leak.

Heating it in a kettle or boiler is the most common source od problems
with hard water since that does make it come out of solution quickly.

I recall some drain pipes in a former dye chemical plant that were
hugely entertaining when removed after the plant was closed. I believe
some clocks and other ornaments were made from polished sections of it.
Heaven knows what noxious ancient aniline dyes were in there.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 13:46:47 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your
house? Make sure it stays dissolved?

Some of them do nothing at all. The magnetic snake oil variety.
The real water softening filters swap calcium ions for sodium and have
to be replaced or recharged from time to time. It is a waste softening
water unless it is for drinking or some other critical usage that
requires soft water. Hard water doesn't corrode pipes and may even
seal minor pinhole leaks - which is a benefit for the water company.

But if you get continuous deposition in the pipes, after some amount of
time no water flows.

OK.

Post by Martin Brown
Heating it in a kettle or boiler is the most common source od problems
with hard water since that does make it come out of solution quickly.

Ha yes, I decoked the kettles and the urn at our village hall a few
weeks ago. That took ten of the lactic acid sachets.

--
There's no obfuscated Perl contest because it's pointless.

- Jeff Polk

2017-10-12 15:46:53 UTC

Post by Martin Brown
Heating it in a kettle or boiler is the most common source od problems
with hard water since that does make it come out of solution quickly.

Ha yes, I decoked the kettles and the urn at our village hall a few
weeks ago. That took ten of the lactic acid sachets.

I decoked my coffee maker: the sort that gurgled and spluttered while it
heated water as it was drawn from a cold-water reservoir to the nozzle that
dripped it over a filter of coffee grounds. Something in the descaling
solution attacked the metal pipe and it began to leak. Maybe it had already
corroded and had only been kept watertight by limescale that had now been
dissolved.

I went over to the low-tech solution of a kettle of hot (but not boiling)
water into a cafetiere. Quicker, quieter and no descaling needed. At least
with a kettle you can heat the element with no water in for few seconds, and
then drench it with a jug of cold water to shatter the scale off the
element.

Living in a soft water area now, I no longer have a limescale problem.

Martin Brown

2017-10-12 16:00:54 UTC

Post by NY
I went over to the low-tech solution of a kettle of hot (but not
boiling) water into a cafetiere. Quicker, quieter and no descaling
needed. At least with a kettle you can heat the element with no water in
for few seconds, and then drench it with a jug of cold water to shatter
the scale off the element.
Living in a soft water area now, I no longer have a limescale problem.

It is interesting in the case of coffee that the right amount of
hardness is critical for getting the best possible brew.

I was at a lecture on the chemistry of coffee making (sponsored by a
maker of commercial barista coffee machines) and with an expert present
with all the methods of making the stuff and tasting some very exotic
single estate coffees and single species/varieties.

The most fun was him making coffee with different qualities of water:

1. Pure water (reverse osmosis potable grade)
2. Newcastle tap water
3. Evian water

It was recommended to taste them in that order too.

#1 was OK but rather soft, dull and lacklustre.
#2 was a very nice balanced cup of coffee.
#3 was disgusting with free bases that tasted really bitter.

Turns out Newcastle tapwater is almost perfect for coffee making.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Rob Morley

2017-10-12 16:22:08 UTC

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 17:00:54 +0100

Post by Martin Brown
Turns out Newcastle tapwater is almost perfect for coffee making.

Which Newcastle?

Ed Pawlowski

2017-10-12 17:17:37 UTC

Post by Rob Morley
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 17:00:54 +0100

Post by Martin Brown
Turns out Newcastle tapwater is almost perfect for coffee making.

Which Newcastle?

The only one that matters, in Delaware. Am I right?

Ed Pawlowski

2017-10-12 17:16:51 UTC

Post by Martin Brown
1. Pure water (reverse osmosis potable grade)
2. Newcastle tap water
3. Evian water
It was recommended to taste them in that order too.
#1 was OK but rather soft, dull and lacklustre.
#2 was a very nice balanced cup of coffee.
#3 was disgusting with free bases that tasted really bitter.
Turns out Newcastle tapwater is almost perfect for coffee making.

RO water is pure, and that is a problem. The best water has some
minerals in it. Some bottled water is RO processed and then some
minerals are put back in so it has a good taste.

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:12:03 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your
house? Make sure it stays dissolved?

Some of them do nothing at all. The magnetic snake oil variety.
The real water softening filters swap calcium ions for sodium and have
to be replaced or recharged from time to time. It is a waste softening
water unless it is for drinking or some other critical usage that
requires soft water. Hard water doesn't corrode pipes and may even
seal minor pinhole leaks - which is a benefit for the water company.

But if you get continuous deposition in the pipes, after some amount of
time no water flows.

So inside a combi boiler it would never experience buildup?

--
It turns out that several protected, rare birds in Germany have been feeding on a species of protected, rare fish. In response to this dilemma, exasperated German officials have decided to do the only thing that makes sense in this kind of a situation - kill all the environmentalists.

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 13:17:32 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

Some of them do nothing at all. The magnetic snake oil variety.
The real water softening filters swap calcium ions for sodium and have
to be replaced or recharged from time to time. It is a waste softening
water unless it is for drinking or some other critical usage that
requires soft water. Hard water doesn't corrode pipes and may even seal
minor pinhole leaks - which is a benefit for the water company.

I was thinking more of clogging up combi boilers.

--
Customer explaining flooded car to insurance claim investigator:
"It didn't look that deep at first glance - it only came half way up the ducks."

Frank

2017-10-12 13:14:39 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 13:21:27 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

You'd think anyone posting here would know that, wouldn't you.

--
The EU Parliament. The only parliament in the world that can neither initiate
nor repeal legislation.

Robert Kimbell

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 13:28:39 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

You'd think anyone posting here would know that, wouldn't you.

Not me, I live in Scotland where we have soft water. I was just asking out of interest.

--
In 1272, the Arabic Muslims invented the condom, using a goat's lower intestine.
In 1873, the British refined the idea by taking the intestine out of the goat first.

Frank

2017-10-12 13:45:48 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your
house? Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

You'd think anyone posting here would know that, wouldn't you.

Everyone should know but when you hear that maybe 20% of a population is
functionally illiterate, i.e. cannot read beyond road signs or newspaper
headline, it makes one think that technical illiteracy is even higher.

Might also have mentioned reverse osmosis which even less probably
understand and is a filtration of sorts and more expensive process.

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 13:54:42 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your
house? Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

You'd think anyone posting here would know that, wouldn't you.

What has literacy to do with knowing how a device works?

Post by Frank
Might also have mentioned reverse osmosis which even less probably
understand and is a filtration of sorts and more expensive process.

I saw something on the telly 10 yers ago that it was going to replace all filters.

--
Take some good advice: Never try to baptize your cat.

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 13:29:08 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

How much does it cost to do this, compared to your water bill?

--
Einstein married his cousin, Elsa Lowenthal, after his first marriage failed in 1919.
At the time he stated that he was attracted to Elsa "because she was so well endowed".
He postulated that if you are attracted to women with large breasts, the attraction is even stronger if there is a DNA connection.
This came to be known as.... Einstein's Theory of "Relative Titty."

Frank

2017-10-12 13:54:06 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

How much does it cost to do this, compared to your water bill?

Easy to google. DYI system as low as $500, professional installation
$1,000 to $3,000. Then annual cost of the salt.

Here's interesting reference which even discusses the phony units that
some think work but actually don't:

https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/kitchens/water-softener-installation-costs/

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 13:57:54 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

How much does it cost to do this, compared to your water bill?

Easy to google. DYI system as low as $500, professional installation
$1,000 to $3,000. Then annual cost of the salt.
Here's interesting reference which even discusses the phony units that
https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/kitchens/water-softener-installation-costs/

So about a third of the existing water bill again if they softened it. Fair enough.

--
Computers are like air conditioners: They stop working when you open Windows.

Frank

2017-10-12 14:30:08 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water,
the
salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

How much does it cost to do this, compared to your water bill?

Easy to google. DYI system as low as $500, professional installation
$1,000 to $3,000. Then annual cost of the salt.
Here's interesting reference which even discusses the phony units that
https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/kitchens/water-softener-installation-costs/

So about a third of the existing water bill again if they softened it.
Fair enough.

Have no idea what people pay there since I'm on a well. I think around
here it would cost me $50 to $100/month for water and I think that is
expensive as we have lots of water.

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:54:52 UTC

Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for=
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that =

small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to=

beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles fr=

om a

liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard wate=

the
salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto=

the

pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate =

out -

*that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the=
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by=
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

How much does it cost to do this, compared to your water bill?

Easy to google. DYI system as low as $500, professional installatio=

$1,000 to $3,000. Then annual cost of the salt.
Here's interesting reference which even discusses the phony units th=

https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/kitchens/water-softener-installatio=

n-costs/

So about a third of the existing water bill again if they softened it=

Fair enough.

Have no idea what people pay there since I'm on a well. I think aroun=

here it would cost me $50 to $100/month for water and I think that is
expensive as we have lots of water.

It's =A320 a month here. Flat rate use as much as you like. Price incl=
udes sewage.

-- =

Einstein married his cousin, Elsa Lowenthal, after his first marriage fa=
iled in 1919.
At the time he stated that he was attracted to Elsa "because she was so =
well endowed".
He postulated that if you are attracted to women with large breasts, the=
attraction is even stronger if there is a DNA connection.
This came to be known as.... Einstein's Theory of "Relative Titty."

Frank

2017-10-12 16:35:06 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles
from a
liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water,
the
salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto
the
pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate
out -
*that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

How much does it cost to do this, compared to your water bill?

Easy to google. DYI system as low as $500, professional installation
$1,000 to $3,000. Then annual cost of the salt.
Here's interesting reference which even discusses the phony units that
https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/kitchens/water-softener-installation-costs/

So about a third of the existing water bill again if they softened it.
Fair enough.

Have no idea what people pay there since I'm on a well. I think around
here it would cost me $50 to $100/month for water and I think that is
expensive as we have lots of water.

It's £20 a month here. Flat rate use as much as you like. Price
includes sewage.

Excellent rate and that would just pay for sewer where I live. Hard to
compare utility prices between US and UK as I suspect most of yours are
highly subsidized. Hard to believe they allow you unlimited water.
I've heard of people here that had a water hose left on and ended up
with over $1,000 monthly bill.

Bod

2017-10-12 16:46:26 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles
from a
liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water,
the
salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves
onto the
pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate
out -
*that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

They are not filters but ion exchange resin beds that exchange the
calcium in the water for sodium. You must regenerate the resin by
adding salt to flush out calcium to sewer.

How much does it cost to do this, compared to your water bill?

Easy to google. DYI system as low as $500, professional installation
$1,000 to $3,000. Then annual cost of the salt.
Here's interesting reference which even discusses the phony units that
https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/kitchens/water-softener-installation-costs/

So about a third of the existing water bill again if they softened it.
Fair enough.

Have no idea what people pay there since I'm on a well. I think around
here it would cost me $50 to $100/month for water and I think that is
expensive as we have lots of water.

It's £20 a month here. Flat rate use as much as you like. Price
includes sewage.

Excellent rate and that would just pay for sewer where I live. Hard to
compare utility prices between US and UK as I suspect most of yours are
highly subsidized. Hard to believe they allow you unlimited water. I've
heard of people here that had a water hose left on and ended up with
over $1,000 monthly bill.

No subsidies, all of our Utility companies are private...as far as I know.

--
Bod

2017-10-12 17:03:15 UTC

Post by Frank
Excellent rate and that would just pay for sewer where I live. Hard to
compare utility prices between US and UK as I suspect most of yours are
highly subsidized. Hard to believe they allow you unlimited water. I've
heard of people here that had a water hose left on and ended up with over
$1,000 monthly bill.

Water companies are encouraging people to change over from flat-rate to
metered supply, but there are some houses which can't have a meter. Our
house is one of a terrace of three. There is a single T from the water main
in the road, with a single stop tap, and this then divides into one pipe per
house. For some reason, the water company cannot fit meters in each of the
separate pipes, so we must always remain on a flat-rate tariff.

At my previous house which had a meter, the copper pipe going to the outside
tap pulled out of the compression fitting and a lot of water was lost - it
may have been running for several days because I'd been away for that
weekend. I kept a record of my meter readings every few weeks and I can see
that between 2 June and 1 July that year I used an average of 1600
litres/day
instead of typically about 50 - 100 litres/day. Ouch! Luckily my next bill
was
not much higher, so I imagine that the standing charges are a significant
part of the quarterly bill, and the extra water usage was not too
significant. I have heard of people being able to claim back the amount from
their household or buildings insurance in extreme cases so they don't lose
out.

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 17:03:02 UTC

In article <oro5jt$44l$***@dont-email.me>, Frank < "@frank.net> wrote:

[snip]

Post by Frank
Excellent rate and that would just pay for sewer where I live. Hard to
compare utility prices between US and UK as I suspect most of yours are
highly subsidised. Hard to believe they allow you unlimited water.

That's just historical, when the Water Boards didn't do any maintenance
on the system and allowed the public to think that because water falls
from the sky, there was no reason for it to cost anything in which case
we could have as much as we like for no cost.

Y'know, it's the same sensible reasoning that gives us free unlimited
petrol for our cars.

Since privatisation, when some sanity entered the system, maintenance
started to be done again, people have started having water meters. We
got one here as it reduced our water bill.

--
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English
is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion,
English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious
and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." -- James Nicoll, rasfw

Bod

2017-10-12 17:09:36 UTC

Post by Tim Streater
[snip]

Excellent rate and that would just pay for sewer where I live. Hard
to compare utility prices between US and UK as I suspect most of yours
are highly subsidised. Hard to believe they allow you unlimited water.

That's just historical, when the Water Boards didn't do any maintenance
on the system and allowed the public to think that because water falls
from the sky, there was no reason for it to cost anything in which case
we could have as much as we like for no cost.
Y'know, it's the same sensible reasoning that gives us free unlimited
petrol for our cars.
Since privatisation, when some sanity entered the system, maintenance
started to be done again, people have started having water meters. We
got one here as it reduced our water bill.

We're not on a water meter.

--
Bod

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 17:10:23 UTC

Post by Tim Streater
[snip]

That's just historical, when the Water Boards didn't do any maintenance
on the system and allowed the public to think that because water falls
from the sky, there was no reason for it to cost anything in which case
we could have as much as we like for no cost.
Y'know, it's the same sensible reasoning that gives us free unlimited
petrol for our cars.
Since privatisation, when some sanity entered the system, maintenance
started to be done again, people have started having water meters. We
got one here as it reduced our water bill.

We're not on a water meter.

Perhaps you should look into it.

--
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

Ed Pawlowski

2017-10-12 17:12:20 UTC

Post by Frank
https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/kitchens/water-softener-installation-costs/

So about a third of the existing water bill again if they softened it.
Fair enough.

Have no idea what people pay there since I'm on a well. I think around
here it would cost me $50 to $100/month for water and I think that is
expensive as we have lots of water.

I pay about $800 a year for water and sewer combined. Decent quality,
good pressure, 100% reliable.

Bod

2017-10-12 14:00:44 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

Exactly that.

--
Bod

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:13:22 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

Exactly that.

What are you protecting? As you said it's good for you.

--
Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

Bod

2017-10-12 14:15:35 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

Exactly that.

What are you protecting? As you said it's good for you.

Well the lime is still present but tends not to stick so much to pipes etc.

--
Bod

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:23:16 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

I would thought this is for two reasons: cost and the fact that a small
amount of the salts which cause limescale is actually thought to be
beneficial to the human body.
And it's not filtration, which the removal of solid particles from a liquid
by a fine mesh (metal, paper, ceramic). In the case of hard water, the salts
are dissolved in the water and gradually deposit themselves onto the pipes
in your house. You'd need a chemical reaction in the treatment plant to
convert the salts to something insoluble that would precipitate out - *that*
precipitate could be separated by filtration.

So what do "filters" for preventing limescale buildup do in your house?
Make sure it stays dissolved?

Exactly that.

What are you protecting? As you said it's good for you.

Well the lime is still present but tends not to stick so much to pipes etc.

Elsewhere in the thread someone said you needed air for it to deposit.

--
I got invited to a party and was told to dress to kill. Apparently a turban, beard and a backpack wasn't what they had in mind.

charles

2017-10-12 12:46:59 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 12:57:48 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

Then WTF is a limescale filter that people fit into their homes? Why not do this filtering earlier?

--
Ederacinism - sexual pleasure derived from the thought of tearing out one's sex organs by the roots.

Bod

2017-10-12 14:00:10 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

Then WTF is a limescale filter that people fit into their homes? Why
not do this filtering earlier?

A hard water filter is not exactly a filter, it breaks up the limescale
which reduces the amount of limescale in your pipes. I have one fitted
to our mains water.

--
Bod

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:13:00 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

Then WTF is a limescale filter that people fit into their homes? Why
not do this filtering earlier?

A hard water filter is not exactly a filter, it breaks up the limescale
which reduces the amount of limescale in your pipes. I have one fitted
to our mains water.

So yours isn't the type mentioned in this thread (nd presumably in a dishwasher) where you constantly supply several pounds of salt?

--
I am sorry I offended you - I should have lied.

Bod

2017-10-12 14:14:14 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

Then WTF is a limescale filter that people fit into their homes? Why
not do this filtering earlier?

A hard water filter is not exactly a filter, it breaks up the limescale
which reduces the amount of limescale in your pipes. I have one fitted
to our mains water.

So yours isn't the type mentioned in this thread (nd presumably in a
dishwasher) where you constantly supply several pounds of salt?

Correct.

--
Bod

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 16:41:44 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

Then WTF is a limescale filter that people fit into their homes? Why
not do this filtering earlier?

A hard water filter is not exactly a filter, it breaks up the limescale
which reduces the amount of limescale in your pipes. I have one fitted
to our mains water.

What d'ye mean "breaks it up"? Are there little imps with miniature
hammers who swim up and down the pipes chipping bits of limescale off?

--
"Hard" and "Soft" Brexit are code words for Leaving or Staying in the EU,
rather than for the terms of our departure.

Jacob Rees-Mogg MP

Bod

2017-10-12 16:48:47 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

Then WTF is a limescale filter that people fit into their homes? Why
not do this filtering earlier?

A hard water filter is not exactly a filter, it breaks up the
limescale which reduces the amount of limescale in your pipes. I have
one fitted to our mains water.

What d'ye mean "breaks it up"? Are there little imps with miniature
hammers who swim up and down the pipes chipping bits of limescale off?

Of course.

--
Bod

Bod

2017-10-12 16:54:10 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

Then WTF is a limescale filter that people fit into their homes? Why
not do this filtering earlier?

A hard water filter is not exactly a filter, it breaks up the
limescale which reduces the amount of limescale in your pipes. I have
one fitted to our mains water.

What d'ye mean "breaks it up"? Are there little imps with miniature
hammers who swim up and down the pipes chipping bits of limescale off?

This is what we've got:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/liff-electrolytic-in-line-scale-inhibitor-15mm/91448?kpid=91448&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=CjwKCAjwpfzOBRA5EiwAU0ccNwhUZzM1KLZghq60mx8YUtxpv9T7ef8Mbs_kLNmOv6Z3_6kVJQ2j7hoCmccQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CN3w0tvF69YCFUYh0wodLlYCQA

--
Bod

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 17:07:04 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

Then WTF is a limescale filter that people fit into their homes? Why
not do this filtering earlier?

A hard water filter is not exactly a filter, it breaks up the
limescale which reduces the amount of limescale in your pipes. I have
one fitted to our mains water.

What d'ye mean "breaks it up"? Are there little imps with miniature
hammers who swim up and down the pipes chipping bits of limescale off?

<https://www.screwfix.com/p/liff-electrolytic-in-line-scale-inhibitor-15mm/91448?kpid=91448&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=CjwKCAjwpfzOBRA5EiwAU0ccNwhUZzM1KLZghq60mx8YUtxpv9T7ef8Mbs_kLNmOv6Z3_6kVJQ2j7hoCmccQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CN3w0tvF69YCFUYh0wodLlYCQA>

I've added <> to your long URL. You're welcome.

Now: how is that thing supposed to work?

--
Lady Astor: "If you were my husband I'd give you poison." Churchill: "If
you were my wife, I'd drink it."

Ed Pawlowski

2017-10-12 14:16:50 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

It could be softened but that is not the way to do it. You don't need
soft water to flush toilets, water the garden, etc so it seems silly to
pay the expense of treating it all.

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:24:01 UTC

Post by Ed Pawlowski

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

It could be softened but that is not the way to do it. You don't need
soft water to flush toilets, water the garden, etc so it seems silly to
pay the expense of treating it all.

Does it not clog the cistern?

--
"If women are so bloody perfect at multitasking,
How come they can't have a headache and sex at the same time?" - Bill Connolly

2017-10-12 16:08:06 UTC

Post by Ed Pawlowski
It could be softened but that is not the way to do it. You don't need
soft water to flush toilets, water the garden, etc so it seems silly to
pay the expense of treating it all.

Does it not clog the cistern?

After many years of use, my parents' cistern had a limscale tide mark round
it - in fact it had several where the cutoff had been set at different
levels. Being a porcelain cistern (unglazed on the inside), the limescale
clung very tenaciously and couldn't be removed, so we left it. The toilet
still flushed fine. With a plastic cistern you can chip the scale off as
long as you do it frequently and don't let too much build up.

Bod

2017-10-12 14:26:26 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

It could be softened but that is not the way to do it. You don't need
soft water to flush toilets, water the garden, etc so it seems silly to
pay the expense of treating it all.

Agreed.

--
Bod

tim...

2017-10-12 16:03:54 UTC

Post by Ed Pawlowski

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

It could be softened but that is not the way to do it. You don't need
soft water to flush toilets, water the garden,

you don't need it to drink either - it tastes awful

tim

Tim+

2017-10-12 14:58:30 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Filtering doesn't remove the lime content of water

Notice who you’re replying to...

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Cindy Hamilton

2017-10-12 13:16:59 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

More than 15 million U.S. households have their own well. Some
of them don't see fit to treat their water for calcium.

Cindy Hamilton

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 13:28:01 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

More than 15 million U.S. households have their own well. Some
of them don't see fit to treat their water for calcium.

Depends where you live. I don't know about the US, but in the UK only the south half has hard water.

--
In case of exposure to lack of substance, please do not continue to refrain from stopping.

Bod

2017-10-12 14:02:50 UTC

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:16:59 +0100, Cindy Hamilton

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

More than 15 million U.S. households have their own well. Some
of them don't see fit to treat their water for calcium.

Depends where you live. I don't know about the US, but in the UK only
the south half has hard water.

Cornwall and Devon have soft water and that's in the south.

--
Bod

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:13:48 UTC

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:16:59 +0100, Cindy Hamilton

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

More than 15 million U.S. households have their own well. Some
of them don't see fit to treat their water for calcium.

Depends where you live. I don't know about the US, but in the UK only
the south half has hard water.

Cornwall and Devon have soft water and that's in the south.

I'd forgotten about them. But AFAIK anything from Yorkshire upwards is soft.

--
If it weren't for electricity, we'd all be watching television by candlelight. -- Geroge Gobel

Frank

2017-10-12 13:58:58 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

More than 15 million U.S. households have their own well. Some
of them don't see fit to treat their water for calcium.
Cindy Hamilton

I have a well and decided not to treat as calcium is borderline. If I
had treated, as next door neighbor did, when he sold his house found
that he needed an extra drainage field dug for the exchanger flush as
salt is harmful to septic systems. Probably hastens concrete erosion as
you will observe if you ever used sodium chloride on your concrete walk
to melt ice.

James Wilkinson Sword

2017-10-12 14:14:49 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

More than 15 million U.S. households have their own well. Some
of them don't see fit to treat their water for calcium.
Cindy Hamilton

Septic system, ugh! I'm glad we have a proper sewage outlet here.

--
Why was the nigger with diarrea freaking out?
He thought he was melting!

Frank

2017-10-12 14:34:19 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for
you? It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

More than 15 million U.S. households have their own well. Some
of them don't see fit to treat their water for calcium.
Cindy Hamilton

Septic system, ugh! I'm glad we have a proper sewage outlet here.

When small development was built we had no access to water or sewer
system. Lots of about one acre can have well and septic if septic
drainage is approved.

BurfordTJustice

2017-10-12 13:43:45 UTC

Why not ask on one of your UK groups??

After all you are a Brit in the UK

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.
--
I took my Biology exam last Friday. I was asked to name two things
commonly found in cells. Apparently "Blacks" and "Scousers" were not the
correct answers.

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 13:47:58 UTC

Post by BurfordTJustice
Why not ask on one of your UK groups??
After all you are a Brit in the UK

This *is* a UK group.

--
The truth of the matter is that we Scots have always been more divided amongst
ourselves than pitted against the English. Scottish history before the Union of
Parliaments is a gloomy, violent tale of murders, feuds, and tribal revenge.
Only after the Act of Union did Highlanders and Lowlanders, Picts and Celts,
begin to recognise one another as fellow citizens.

Tam Dalyell

BurfordTJustice

2017-10-12 13:50:54 UTC

This isnot, fucktard...
,alt.home.repair

You don't even know where you are replying to.

Post by BurfordTJustice
Why not ask on one of your UK groups??
After all you are a Brit in the UK

This *is* a UK group.
--
The truth of the matter is that we Scots have always been more divided amongst
ourselves than pitted against the English. Scottish history before the Union of
Parliaments is a gloomy, violent tale of murders, feuds, and tribal revenge.
Only after the Act of Union did Highlanders and Lowlanders, Picts and Celts,
begin to recognise one another as fellow citizens.
Tam Dalyell

Colonel Edmund J. Burke

2017-10-12 14:59:32 UTC

Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Water boards?
LOL!

Obviously a dumb limey...

Bod

2017-10-12 15:19:13 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Water boards?
LOL!
Obviously a dumb limey...

Members | Water UK
https://www.water.org.uk/about/our-members
Water UK is funded directly by its members and overall policy is set by
our member companies, working through the *Water UK Board* and Council
of Members.

--
Bod

2017-10-12 16:11:59 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Water boards?
LOL!
Obviously a dumb limey...

Standard UK usage, maybe slightly old-fashioned, to refer to the supplier of
a service (water, electricity or gas) as "the water board", "the electricity
board" or "the gas board". I think this usage probably changed when a single
supplier for the whole country's water, electricity or gas was replaced by
separate companies when the industries were privatised and de-regulated by
Maggie Thatcher in the 1980s - as in the famous "If you see Sid, tell him"
TV adverts which I think were for shares in the newly-privatised gas
companies.

Bod

2017-10-12 16:19:10 UTC

Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you?
It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Water boards?
LOL!
Obviously a dumb limey...

Members | Water UK
https://www.water.org.uk/about/our-members
Water UK is funded directly by its members and overall policy is set
by our member companies, working through the *Water UK Board* and
Council of Members.

Standard UK usage, maybe slightly old-fashioned, to refer to the
supplier of a service (water, electricity or gas) as "the water board",
"the electricity board" or "the gas board". I think this usage probably
changed when a single supplier for the whole country's water,
electricity or gas was replaced by separate companies when the
industries were privatised and de-regulated by Maggie Thatcher in the
1980s - as in the famous "If you see Sid, tell him" TV adverts which I
think were for shares in the newly-privatised gas companies.
Ah yes, I'm still looking for Sid :-)

--
Bod

Colonel Edmund J. Burke

2017-10-12 16:49:54 UTC

Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Water boards?
LOL!
Obviously a dumb limey...

Members | Water UK
https://www.water.org.uk/about/our-members
Water UK is funded directly by its members and overall policy is set by our member companies, working through the *Water UK Board* and Council of Members.

Oh, well, pardon.
I thought someone said a board, like a waterboard.
Well, fuck me Jean I'll not smile again!

2017-10-12 17:04:43 UTC

Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Water boards?
LOL!
Obviously a dumb limey...

Oh, well, pardon.
I thought someone said a board, like a waterboard.
Well, fuck me Jean I'll not smile again!

I nearly added to my previous post "water board - not to be confused with
waterboarding which is a form of torture" :-)

Tim Streater

2017-10-12 16:44:20 UTC

Why don't water boards in hard water areas filter the water for you? It
would save their own pipes getting scaled up too.

Water boards?
LOL!
Obviously a dumb limey...

Dumb, yes, And 30 years out of date, too. Limey? Yes, be good if we
could coat him in limescale, might shut the bar-steward up.

--
Socialism: For people who lack the charisma to be train spotters.

Ann Sheridan

Peeler

2017-10-12 17:18:41 UTC