Discussion:
'Damage-joy' - Schadenfreude revisited
(too old to reply)
occam
2019-01-20 10:08:08 UTC
Permalink
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "

Is it fair to say that Germans do not have 'a word' for it either? Is
that not why they have to concatenate two words - as is their wont - to
express the sentiment?

I note from the remainder of the interesting TLS article that the
residents of Nissan Atoll in Papua New Guinea /do/ have a word single
for it - “Banbanam”.

https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/damage-joy-schadenfreude/
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2019-01-20 12:41:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
Is it fair to say that Germans do not have 'a word' for it either? Is
that not why they have to concatenate two words - as is their wont - to
express the sentiment?
I note from the remainder of the interesting TLS article that the
residents of Nissan Atoll in Papua New Guinea /do/ have a word single
for it - “Banbanam”.
https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/damage-joy-schadenfreude/
If you're going to disallow concatenations as words then there's
a whole lot of things we no longer have a word for in English. If
it's spoken and written as a single word then it's a single word
no matter how many parts in the accretion for my money.
occam
2019-01-20 13:10:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
Is it fair to say that Germans do not have 'a word' for it either? Is
that not why they have to concatenate two words - as is their wont - to
express the sentiment?
I note from the remainder of the interesting TLS article that the
residents of Nissan Atoll in Papua New Guinea /do/ have a word single
for it - “Banbanam”.
https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/damage-joy-schadenfreude/
If you're going to disallow concatenations as words then there's
a whole lot of things we no longer have a word for in English.
Only because they are non-English words. 'Schadenfreude' is only a
single word because the average English speaker does not understand
German. 'Albeit' is one of the few English words I can think of where
concatenation is standard. 'Weekend' is another.


If
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
it's spoken and written as a single word then it's a single word
no matter how many parts in the accretion for my money.
Bullshit (two words).
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-01-20 15:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
Is it fair to say that Germans do not have 'a word' for it either? Is
that not why they have to concatenate two words - as is their wont - to
express the sentiment?
I note from the remainder of the interesting TLS article that the
residents of Nissan Atoll in Papua New Guinea /do/ have a word single
for it - “Banbanam”.
https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/damage-joy-schadenfreude/
If you're going to disallow concatenations as words then there's
a whole lot of things we no longer have a word for in English.
Only because they are non-English words. 'Schadenfreude' is only a
single word because the average English speaker does not understand
German. 'Albeit' is one of the few English words I can think of where
concatenation is standard. 'Weekend' is another.
Would "someone" and "somewhere" fit your category of concatenated words?

Each of those has been written as two words in the past.
Post by occam
If
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
it's spoken and written as a single word then it's a single word
no matter how many parts in the accretion for my money.
Bullshit (two words).
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
John Varela
2019-01-21 21:11:49 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 15:04:12 UTC, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by occam
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure  instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally damage-joy). "
Is it fair to say that Germans do not have 'a word' for it either? Is
that not why they have to concatenate two words - as is their wont - to
express the sentiment?
I note from the remainder of the interesting TLS article that the
residents of Nissan Atoll in Papua New Guinea /do/ have a word single
for it - Banbanam.
https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/damage-joy-schadenfreude/
If you're going to disallow concatenations as words then there's
a whole lot of things we no longer have a word for in English.
Only because they are non-English words. 'Schadenfreude' is only a
single word because the average English speaker does not understand
German. 'Albeit' is one of the few English words I can think of where
concatenation is standard. 'Weekend' is another.
Would "someone" and "somewhere" fit your category of concatenated words?
Each of those has been written as two words in the past.
Post by occam
If
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
it's spoken and written as a single word then it's a single word
no matter how many parts in the accretion for my money.
Bullshit (two words).
Nowhere, anywhere, somewhere, myself, yourself, himself, herself,
ourselves, somehow, anyhow, plowshare, clockwork, and placemat, for
a few that come off of the top of my head.

All of those root words with the exception of "place" are (I believe
without checking) Anglo-Saxon. "Automobile" differs. Any others?
--
John Varela
Quinn C
2019-01-21 18:59:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
Is it fair to say that Germans do not have 'a word' for it either? Is
that not why they have to concatenate two words - as is their wont - to
express the sentiment?
I note from the remainder of the interesting TLS article that the
residents of Nissan Atoll in Papua New Guinea /do/ have a word single
for it - “Banbanam”.
https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/damage-joy-schadenfreude/
If you're going to disallow concatenations as words then there's
a whole lot of things we no longer have a word for in English.
Only because they are non-English words. 'Schadenfreude' is only a
single word because the average English speaker does not understand
German.
I'd say it's one word because it has a conventionalized meaning.
Post by occam
'Albeit' is one of the few English words I can think of where
concatenation is standard. 'Weekend' is another.
There are thousands of them, at least hundreds in common use (airport,
anklebone, anteater, anyone ...):

<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_compound_words>
Post by occam
Bullshit (two words).
If Schadenfreude is, yes. I prefer the opposite point of view, that
English "open compounds" are one word, too, e.g. "apple tree". They act
as one word both phonetically and grammatically.
--
Democracy means government by the uneducated,
while aristocracy means government by the badly educated.
-- G. K. Chesterton
Peter T. Daniels
2019-01-21 21:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by occam
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
Is it fair to say that Germans do not have 'a word' for it either? Is
that not why they have to concatenate two words - as is their wont - to
express the sentiment?
I note from the remainder of the interesting TLS article that the
residents of Nissan Atoll in Papua New Guinea /do/ have a word single
for it - “Banbanam”.
https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/damage-joy-schadenfreude/
If you're going to disallow concatenations as words then there's
a whole lot of things we no longer have a word for in English.
Only because they are non-English words. 'Schadenfreude' is only a
single word because the average English speaker does not understand
German.
I'd say it's one word because it has a conventionalized meaning.
Post by occam
'Albeit' is one of the few English words I can think of where
concatenation is standard. 'Weekend' is another.
There are thousands of them, at least hundreds in common use (airport,
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_compound_words>
Post by occam
Bullshit (two words).
If Schadenfreude is, yes. I prefer the opposite point of view, that
English "open compounds" are one word, too, e.g. "apple tree". They act
as one word both phonetically and grammatically.
Usually you can tell from the stress pattern whether a compound should be
written open or closed (we're not as big on hyphens as the Brits are). By
that test, "ice cream" ought to be closed up -- but Brits here told me
they pronounce it with even stress on the components, like "black bird," whereas in AmE it has the stress of "blackbird."
Stefan Ram
2019-01-20 13:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
What else is "triumph" (the feeling of exultation and
happiness derived from a victory)?

If anyone won, it's because others lost. So triumph
is the same as joy resulting from the loss of others.
occam
2019-01-20 13:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
What else is "triumph" (the feeling of exultation and
happiness derived from a victory)?
If anyone won, it's because others lost. So triumph
is the same as joy resulting from the loss of others.
The problem is you do not need a victory to use 'schadenfreude'. Someone
else's failure is enough.

But we digress. For you, is 'schadenfreude' one word, or two?
Stefan Ram
2019-01-20 13:35:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
But we digress. For you, is 'schadenfreude' one word, or two?
I am not aware of any definition of "Wort" (in German) or
"word" (in English) by which the German word "Schadenfreude"
or the English word "schadenfreude" would not be one single
"Wort" or "word", respectively.
occam
2019-01-20 14:21:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
But we digress. For you, is 'schadenfreude' one word, or two?
I am not aware of any definition of "Wort" (in German) or
"word" (in English) by which the German word "Schadenfreude"
or the English word "schadenfreude" would not be one single
"Wort" or "word", respectively.
How about
..."Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz"

One word, or more? Can you point it out to me as an entry in a German
dictionary?
Stefan Ram
2019-01-20 14:27:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
But we digress. For you, is 'schadenfreude' one word, or two?
I am not aware of any definition of "Wort" (in German) or
"word" (in English) by which the German word "Schadenfreude"
or the English word "schadenfreude" would not be one single
"Wort" or "word", respectively.
How about
..."Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz"
One word, or more?
one
Post by occam
Can you point it out to me as an entry in a German
dictionary?
no
Paul Carmichael
2019-01-20 17:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
But we digress. For you, is 'schadenfreude' one word, or two?
I am not aware of any definition of "Wort" (in German) or
"word" (in English) by which the German word "Schadenfreude"
or the English word "schadenfreude" would not be one single
"Wort" or "word", respectively.
How about
..."Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz"
One word, or more?
one
Post by occam
Can you point it out to me as an entry in a German
dictionary?
no
I have a German dictionary. I don't use it much. In fact I regret spending money on it.
--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/
https://asetrad.org
Neill Massello
2019-01-20 22:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Carmichael
I regret spending money on it.
Kostenschmerz.
occam
2019-01-21 07:42:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neill Massello
Post by Paul Carmichael
I regret spending money on it.
Kostenschmerz.
:-). Yes, compound words would be an Arschschmerz in any dictionary.
Quinn C
2019-01-21 18:50:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
How about
..."Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz"
One word, or more? Can you point it out to me as an entry in a German
dictionary?
<https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Rindfleischetikettierungs%C3%BCberwachungsaufgaben%C3%BCbertragungsgesetz>

Quoting
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinderkennzeichnungs-_und_Rindfleischetikettierungs%C3%BCberwachungsaufgaben%C3%BCbertragungsgesetz>

| This is the official short title of the law; its full name is Gesetz
| zur Übertragung der Aufgaben für die Überwachung der
| Rinderkennzeichnung und Rindfleischetikettierung, corresponding to
| Law on delegation of duties for supervision of cattle marking and
| beef labeling. Most German laws have a short title consisting of a
| composite noun.

The abbreviated version was RkReÜAÜG.
--
The only BS around here is butternut squash, one of the dozens of
varieties of squash I grow. I hope you like squash.
-- Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, S01E10
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-01-20 15:38:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
What else is "triumph" (the feeling of exultation and
happiness derived from a victory)?
If anyone won, it's because others lost. So triumph
is the same as joy resulting from the loss of others.
The problem is you do not need a victory to use 'schadenfreude'. Someone
else's failure is enough.
Agreed. I don't think I've ever used the word, but my understanding
matches this definition:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/schadenfreude

Pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.
Post by occam
But we digress. For you, is 'schadenfreude' one word, or two?
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Janet
2019-01-20 15:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure ? instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally ?damage-joy?). "
What else is "triumph" (the feeling of exultation and
happiness derived from a victory)?
If anyone won, it's because others lost. So triumph
is the same as joy resulting from the loss of others.
Nope. One might exult/ feel triumphant about surviving cancer,
passing a tough exam, mastering a new skill; none of which involved
loss to others or gloating about the less fortunate.

Janet.
Lewis
2019-01-20 18:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
What else is "triumph" (the feeling of exultation and
happiness derived from a victory)?
If anyone won, it's because others lost. So triumph
is the same as joy resulting from the loss of others.
Not at all. Triumph is joy resulting from your victory. This is very
different that feeling joy at someone else's pain.

For example, despite not paying any attention to sportsball in a couple
of decades I do like to hear about the Oakland Raiders loosing, and I am
pleased when the Washington NFL Racists have a particularly bad season.

I have no such feelings for most teams, and for no NBA teams. I don't
dislike any baseball teams either, but I do dislike a lot of NY Yankees
fans when their team is winning, so I have a mild appreciating when they
are not, but bot to the schadenfreude level.

Or, perhaps a better example, when that Nazi scum got punched in the
face on live TV and the video clip went viral I was genuinely pleased.
--
Thanks to the human heart by which we live,
Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears,
To me the meanest flower that blows can give
Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears
Stefan Ram
2019-01-20 18:46:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
of decades I do like to hear about the Oakland Raiders loosing, and I am
"losing"
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-20 19:56:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
What else is "triumph" (the feeling of exultation and
happiness derived from a victory)?
If anyone won, it's because others lost. So triumph
is the same as joy resulting from the loss of others.
Not at all. Triumph is joy resulting from your victory. This is very
different that feeling joy at someone else's pain.
For example, despite not paying any attention to sportsball in a couple
of decades I do like to hear about the Oakland Raiders loosing, and I am
pleased when the Washington NFL Racists have a particularly bad season.
I know the feeling. I don't get all that excited if the Olympique de
Marseille wins a game, but I do like to see Paris St Germain losing one.
Post by Lewis
I have no such feelings for most teams, and for no NBA teams. I don't
dislike any baseball teams either, but I do dislike a lot of NY Yankees
fans when their team is winning, so I have a mild appreciating when they
are not, but bot to the schadenfreude level.
Or, perhaps a better example, when that Nazi scum got punched in the
face on live TV and the video clip went viral I was genuinely pleased.
--
athel
HVS
2019-01-20 23:24:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 20:56:12 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
For example, despite not paying any attention to sportsball in a couple
of decades I do like to hear about the Oakland Raiders loosing, and I am
pleased when the Washington NFL Racists have a particularly bad season.
I know the feeling. I don't get all that excited if the Olympique de
Marseille wins a game, but I do like to see Paris St Germain losing one.
Swap "the Australian cricket team" for the latter, and I'm with ya'
all the way. (I don't mind who you swap for the former - any of the
test-playing teams will do.)
pensive hamster
2019-01-20 14:04:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
Aren't pretty much all English words borrowed from somewhere?
- Greek, Latin, Norse, German, Hindi, we're not fussy.
Post by occam
Is it fair to say that Germans do not have 'a word' for it either? Is
that not why they have to concatenate two words - as is their wont - to
express the sentiment?
I note from the remainder of the interesting TLS article that the
residents of Nissan Atoll in Papua New Guinea /do/ have a word single
for it - “Banbanam”.
https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/public/damage-joy-schadenfreude/
Jerry Friedman
2019-01-20 16:43:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by pensive hamster
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
Aren't pretty much all English words borrowed from somewhere?
None of the words in that question are, and the majority of words in
ordinary conversation or writing aren't either. However, if you count
words in a good-sized dictionary, you'll find most are borrowed.
Post by pensive hamster
- Greek, Latin, Norse, German, Hindi, we're not fussy.
...
Definitely not.
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-20 15:07:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at
least in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to
Schadenfreude.
--
athel
Katy Jennison
2019-01-20 15:30:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at least
in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to Schadenfreude.
Almost, but I don't think someone else's misfortune is essential for
glee. If I said, "You know your bike that was nicked yesterday? I know
who did it, and it's in his garden - let's go and nick it back!" your
feeling might be glee, but it wouldn't be schadenfreude.
--
Katy Jennison
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-20 21:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally "damage-joy"). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at least
in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to Schadenfreude.
Almost, but I don't think someone else's misfortune is essential for
glee. If I said, "You know your bike that was nicked yesterday? I know
who did it, and it's in his garden - let's go and nick it back!" your
feeling might be glee, but it wouldn't be schadenfreude.
An obvious counter example is
===
"It's a Snark!" was the sound that first came to their ears,
And seemed almost too good to be true.
Then followed a torrent of laughter and cheers:
Then the ominous words "It's a Boo-"

Then, silence. Some fancied they heard in the air
A weary and wandering sigh
Then sounded like "-jum!" but the others declare
It was only a breeze that went by.

They hunted till darkness came on, but they found
Not a button, or feather, or mark,
By which they could tell that they stood on the ground
Where the Baker had met with the Snark.

In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away---
For the Snark *was* a Boojum, you see.
===

Jan
Peter T. Daniels
2019-01-21 03:17:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally "damage-joy"). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at least
in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to Schadenfreude.
Almost, but I don't think someone else's misfortune is essential for
glee. If I said, "You know your bike that was nicked yesterday? I know
who did it, and it's in his garden - let's go and nick it back!" your
feeling might be glee, but it wouldn't be schadenfreude.
An obvious counter example is
This is not a counterexample. It shows that sometimes it can be taken as
Schadenfreude, but Schadenfreude is not essential to the meaning of "glee."
Post by J. J. Lodder
===
In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away---
For the Snark *was* a Boojum, you see.
===
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-21 09:01:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally "damage-joy"). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at least
in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to Schadenfreude.
Almost, but I don't think someone else's misfortune is essential for
glee. If I said, "You know your bike that was nicked yesterday? I know
who did it, and it's in his garden - let's go and nick it back!" your
feeling might be glee, but it wouldn't be schadenfreude.
An obvious counter example is
This is not a counterexample. It shows that sometimes it can be taken as
Schadenfreude, but Schadenfreude is not essential to the meaning of "glee."
Post by J. J. Lodder
===
In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away---
For the Snark *was* a Boojum, you see.
===
Pffft. So 'schadenfreude' cannot be translated with 'glee',
even though the outward appearance may be glee, in some cases,

Jan
Peter T. Daniels
2019-01-21 16:20:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally "damage-joy"). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at least
in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to Schadenfreude.
Almost, but I don't think someone else's misfortune is essential for
glee. If I said, "You know your bike that was nicked yesterday? I know
who did it, and it's in his garden - let's go and nick it back!" your
feeling might be glee, but it wouldn't be schadenfreude.
An obvious counter example is
This is not a counterexample. It shows that sometimes it can be taken as
Schadenfreude, but Schadenfreude is not essential to the meaning of "glee."
Post by J. J. Lodder
===
In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away---
For the Snark *was* a Boojum, you see.
===
Pffft. So 'schadenfreude' cannot be translated with 'glee',
even though the outward appearance may be glee, in some cases,
?

Why would it need to be translated? It's an ordinary loanword in English.
occam
2019-01-20 15:31:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at least
in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to Schadenfreude.
"gloat" also works in some circumstances. "Malicious satisfaction" is
one dictionary definition describing all three.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-01-20 17:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at
least in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to
Schadenfreude.
That might be a specifically British development? If the peeling troll
can be trusted, the "two interpretations" offered there don't work in AmE.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-01-20 17:37:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at>
least in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to>
Schadenfreude.
That might be a specifically British development? If the peeling
trollcan be trusted, the "two interpretations" offered there don't work
in AmE.
Curiously, the peeling trollcan has made one or two serious on-topic
posts recently. I agree with what he said, as far as British usage is
concerned, but I realize that Schadenfreude has nothing to do with your
glee clubs (something we don't have).
--
athel
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2019-01-20 17:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at>
least in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to>
Schadenfreude.
That might be a specifically British development? If the peeling
trollcan be trusted, the "two interpretations" offered there don't work
in AmE.
Curiously, the peeling trollcan has made one or two serious on-topic
posts recently. I agree with what he said, as far as British usage is
concerned, but I realize that Schadenfreude has nothing to do with your
glee clubs (something we don't have).
Who is 'we'? The UK has Glee Clubs. It also has a chain of entertainment
venues called Glee Club.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-01-20 18:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at>
least in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to>
Schadenfreude.
That might be a specifically British development? If the peeling
trollcan be trusted, the "two interpretations" offered there don't work
in AmE.
Curiously, the peeling trollcan has made one or two serious on-topic
posts recently. I agree with what he said, as far as British usage is
concerned, but I realize that Schadenfreude has nothing to do with your
glee clubs (something we don't have).
I doubt that the word "glee" meaning a particular sort of vocal compo-
sition has a connection with the "glee" referring to an emotion of joy.
(Etymology is no guide to meaning, in case they're from the same source.)

BTW I didn't write "trollcan," that was your defective system that can't
identify a hard carriage return.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-01-20 17:53:11 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 09:14:27 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at
least in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to
Schadenfreude.
That might be a specifically British development? If the peeling troll
can be trusted, the "two interpretations" offered there don't work in AmE.
In BrE:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/glee

mass noun Great delight, especially from one's own good fortune or
another's misfortune.

The context would indicate whether it is schadenfreude or not.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Stefan Ram
2019-01-20 18:08:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
mass noun Great delight, especially from one's own good fortune or
another's misfortune.
For a scientific frame:

|Wills introduced the concept of downward comparison in 1981.
|Downward social comparison is a defensive tendency that is
|used as a means of self-evaluation. When a person looks to
|another individual or group that they consider to be worse
|off than themselves in order to feel better about their self
|or personal situation, they are making a downward social
|comparison. Research has suggested that social comparisons
|with others who are better off or superior, or upward
|comparisons, can lower self-regard, whereas downward
|comparisons can elevate self-regard. Downward comparison
|theory emphasizes the positive effects of comparisons in
|increasing one's subjective well-being.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_comparison_theory

I'd simply put it in this short sentence:
Upward comparison dysphorizes, downward comparison euphorizes.

PS: When people watch the wedding ceremony of a king, they
should be dysphorized, but maybe then the psychological
defense of of identification kicks in: they identify with
the king and therefore now they can look down on everyone
else!
Lewis
2019-01-20 18:46:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
One often hears this claim, but is it true? It seems to me that at
least in British English "glee" more or less corresponds to
Schadenfreude.
It does not, because it does not require someone else. It *is* used for
schadenfreude as well.
--
"If I were willing to change my morals for convenience or financial
gain, we wouldn't be arguing, because I'd already *be* a Republican."
-- Wil Shipley
Peeler
2019-01-20 16:26:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even identical to
Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that those two words can have
opposite meanings and need context, unlike Schadenfreude.

So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a positive (joy)
and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction), whereas as Schadenfreude
only has the negative meaning. "He rubbed his hands in glee" is definitely
the same as Schadenfreude.
CDB
2019-01-20 17:51:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for
this grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the
German and call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even identical
to Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that those two words
can have opposite meanings and need context, unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a
positive (joy) and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction),
whereas as Schadenfreude only has the negative meaning. "He rubbed
his hands in glee" is definitely the same as Schadenfreude.
Yes. "[filled to the brim with] girlish glee" might come from coltish
high spirits or be related to Pooh-Bah's discomfiture.

But I think the German word is clearer than either of those. You can
gloat over your own good fortune without taking thought for those less
lucky.
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-20 18:32:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for
this grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow from the
German and call it Schadenfreude (literally "damage-joy"). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even identical
to Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that those two words
can have opposite meanings and need context, unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a
positive (joy) and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction),
whereas as Schadenfreude only has the negative meaning. "He rubbed
his hands in glee" is definitely the same as Schadenfreude.
Yes. "[filled to the brim with] girlish glee" might come from coltish
high spirits or be related to Pooh-Bah's discomfiture.
But I think the German word is clearer than either of those. You can
gloat over your own good fortune without taking thought for those less
lucky.
'Schadenfreude' has noting to do with your own good fortune,
or lack of it.
It is purely rejoicing in other peoples misfortunes,
so a rather nasty sentiment,
(file under German sense of humour)

Jan
bill van
2019-01-20 19:47:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by CDB
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for
this grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow from the
German and call it Schadenfreude (literally "damage-joy"). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even identical
to Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that those two words
can have opposite meanings and need context, unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a
positive (joy) and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction),
whereas as Schadenfreude only has the negative meaning. "He rubbed
his hands in glee" is definitely the same as Schadenfreude.
Yes. "[filled to the brim with] girlish glee" might come from coltish
high spirits or be related to Pooh-Bah's discomfiture.
But I think the German word is clearer than either of those. You can
gloat over your own good fortune without taking thought for those less
lucky.
'Schadenfreude' has noting to do with your own good fortune,
or lack of it.
It is purely rejoicing in other peoples misfortunes,
so a rather nasty sentiment,
(file under German sense of humour)
It's not necessarily nasty, I think. I would rarely take pleasure
in someone losing his job, for example, but if the job was the U.S. presidency
and the incumbent was Donald Trump, I'd be delighted.

bill, and more so if he went to prison for his crimes
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-20 21:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by CDB
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for
this grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow from the
German and call it Schadenfreude (literally "damage-joy"). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even identical
to Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that those two words
can have opposite meanings and need context, unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a
positive (joy) and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction),
whereas as Schadenfreude only has the negative meaning. "He rubbed
his hands in glee" is definitely the same as Schadenfreude.
Yes. "[filled to the brim with] girlish glee" might come from coltish
high spirits or be related to Pooh-Bah's discomfiture.
But I think the German word is clearer than either of those. You can
gloat over your own good fortune without taking thought for those less
lucky.
'Schadenfreude' has noting to do with your own good fortune,
or lack of it.
It is purely rejoicing in other peoples misfortunes,
so a rather nasty sentiment,
(file under German sense of humour)
It's not necessarily nasty, I think. I would rarely take pleasure
in someone losing his job, for example, but if the job was the U.S. presidency
and the incumbent was Donald Trump, I'd be delighted.
Him stumbling over a 10 cm step would already do it, for some,

Jan
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-01-21 12:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by bill van
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by CDB
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for
this grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow from the
German and call it Schadenfreude (literally "damage-joy"). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even identical
to Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that those two words
can have opposite meanings and need context, unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a
positive (joy) and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction),
whereas as Schadenfreude only has the negative meaning. "He rubbed
his hands in glee" is definitely the same as Schadenfreude.
Yes. "[filled to the brim with] girlish glee" might come from coltish
high spirits or be related to Pooh-Bah's discomfiture.
But I think the German word is clearer than either of those. You can
gloat over your own good fortune without taking thought for those less
lucky.
'Schadenfreude' has noting to do with your own good fortune,
or lack of it.
It is purely rejoicing in other peoples misfortunes,
so a rather nasty sentiment,
(file under German sense of humour)
It's not necessarily nasty, I think. I would rarely take pleasure
in someone losing his job, for example, but if the job was the U.S. presidency
and the incumbent was Donald Trump, I'd be delighted.
Him stumbling over a 10 cm step would already do it, for some,
Jan
I've been fantasising about Donald Trump being the first human being on
Mars. He would have travelled there in a spaceship from Elon Musk's
SpaceX.

There would, of course be radio communication so that Trump could send
back selfies and tweets.

After a few days:

@realDonaldTrump to @elonmusk
OK, I' ready to come home now.

@elonmusk
Come home? You signed up for a one-way trip. See the sentence in bold
capitals on page 35 of the contract you signed.

@realDonaldTrump
Rudy Giuliani told me to sign the contract.

@elonmusk
Take that up with @RudyGiuliani.
Goodbye.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-01-21 14:34:12 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 12:36:41 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by bill van
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by CDB
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for
this grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow from the
German and call it Schadenfreude (literally "damage-joy"). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even identical
to Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that those two words
can have opposite meanings and need context, unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a
positive (joy) and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction),
whereas as Schadenfreude only has the negative meaning. "He rubbed
his hands in glee" is definitely the same as Schadenfreude.
Yes. "[filled to the brim with] girlish glee" might come from coltish
high spirits or be related to Pooh-Bah's discomfiture.
But I think the German word is clearer than either of those. You can
gloat over your own good fortune without taking thought for those less
lucky.
'Schadenfreude' has noting to do with your own good fortune,
or lack of it.
It is purely rejoicing in other peoples misfortunes,
so a rather nasty sentiment,
(file under German sense of humour)
It's not necessarily nasty, I think. I would rarely take pleasure
in someone losing his job, for example, but if the job was the U.S. presidency
and the incumbent was Donald Trump, I'd be delighted.
Him stumbling over a 10 cm step would already do it, for some,
Jan
I've been fantasising about Donald Trump being the first human being on
Mars. He would have travelled there in a spaceship from Elon Musk's
SpaceX.
There would, of course be radio communication so that Trump could send
back selfies and tweets.
@realDonaldTrump to @elonmusk
OK, I' ready to come home now.
@elonmusk
Come home? You signed up for a one-way trip. See the sentence in bold
capitals on page 35 of the contract you signed.
@realDonaldTrump
Rudy Giuliani told me to sign the contract.
@elonmusk
Goodbye.
Giuliani speaking after the event:

I was carefully explaining the contract to President Trump. He
interrupted and asked "Will it make me famous". I said: "Yes. It could
make you the most famous person ever". He grabbed his pen and
said "Where do I sign?". He signed and the rest is history.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2019-01-21 00:12:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by CDB
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for
this grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow from the
German and call it Schadenfreude (literally "damage-joy"). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even identical
to Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that those two words
can have opposite meanings and need context, unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a
positive (joy) and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction),
whereas as Schadenfreude only has the negative meaning. "He rubbed
his hands in glee" is definitely the same as Schadenfreude.
Yes. "[filled to the brim with] girlish glee" might come from coltish
high spirits or be related to Pooh-Bah's discomfiture.
But I think the German word is clearer than either of those. You can
gloat over your own good fortune without taking thought for those less
lucky.
'Schadenfreude' has noting to do with your own good fortune,
or lack of it.
It is purely rejoicing in other peoples misfortunes,
so a rather nasty sentiment,
(file under German sense of humour)
It's not necessarily nasty, I think. I would rarely take pleasure
in someone losing his job, for example, but if the job was the U.S. presidency
and the incumbent was Donald Trump, I'd be delighted.
bill, and more so if he went to prison for his crimes
This is the key to it. It's not pleasure in any pain inflicted on
any person. There has to be a personal stake in it or a feeling
that the pain is a fitting comeuppance. As Confucius say,
"There is no greater joy than watching an old friend fall off a roof."
RHDraney
2019-01-21 11:20:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by bill van
Post by J. J. Lodder
'Schadenfreude' has noting to do with your own good fortune,
or lack of it.
It is purely rejoicing in other peoples misfortunes,
so a rather nasty sentiment,
(file under German sense of humour)
It's not necessarily nasty, I think. I would rarely take pleasure
in someone losing his job, for example, but if the job was the U.S. presidency
and the incumbent was Donald Trump, I'd be delighted.
bill, and more so if he went to prison for his crimes
This is the key to it. It's not pleasure in any pain inflicted on
any person. There has to be a personal stake in it or a feeling
that the pain is a fitting comeuppance. As Confucius say,
"There is no greater joy than watching an old friend fall off a roof."
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open
sewer and die."
-- Mel Brooks, as the 2000-year-old man

....r
CDB
2019-01-21 14:19:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word
for this grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow
from the German and call it Schadenfreude (literally
"damage-joy"). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even
identical to Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that
those two words can have opposite meanings and need context,
unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a
positive (joy) and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction),
whereas as Schadenfreude only has the negative meaning. "He
rubbed his hands in glee" is definitely the same as
Schadenfreude.
Yes. "[filled to the brim with] girlish glee" might come from
coltish high spirits or be related to Pooh-Bah's discomfiture.
But I think the German word is clearer than either of those. You
can gloat over your own good fortune without taking thought for
those less lucky.
'Schadenfreude' has noting to do with your own good fortune, or lack
of it. It is purely rejoicing in other peoples misfortunes, so a
rather nasty sentiment, (file under German sense of humour)
It seems to have met a need, perhaps until then unfelt, for anglophones.
Do people use it (or a cognate word) in your country?
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-21 14:36:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word
for this grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow
from the German and call it Schadenfreude (literally
"damage-joy"). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even
identical to Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that
those two words can have opposite meanings and need context,
unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a
positive (joy) and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction),
whereas as Schadenfreude only has the negative meaning. "He
rubbed his hands in glee" is definitely the same as
Schadenfreude.
Yes. "[filled to the brim with] girlish glee" might come from
coltish high spirits or be related to Pooh-Bah's discomfiture.
But I think the German word is clearer than either of those. You
can gloat over your own good fortune without taking thought for
those less lucky.
'Schadenfreude' has noting to do with your own good fortune, or lack
of it. It is purely rejoicing in other peoples misfortunes, so a
rather nasty sentiment, (file under German sense of humour)
It seems to have met a need, perhaps until then unfelt, for anglophones.
Do people use it (or a cognate word) in your country?
But of course. The Dutch word for it is 'schadenfreude'.
(and frowned upon)

Jan
Bart Dinnissen
2019-01-21 18:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word
for this grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow
from the German and call it Schadenfreude (literally
"damage-joy"). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even
identical to Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that
those two words can have opposite meanings and need context,
unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a
positive (joy) and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction),
whereas as Schadenfreude only has the negative meaning. "He
rubbed his hands in glee" is definitely the same as
Schadenfreude.
Yes. "[filled to the brim with] girlish glee" might come from
coltish high spirits or be related to Pooh-Bah's discomfiture.
But I think the German word is clearer than either of those. You
can gloat over your own good fortune without taking thought for
those less lucky.
'Schadenfreude' has noting to do with your own good fortune, or lack
of it. It is purely rejoicing in other peoples misfortunes, so a
rather nasty sentiment, (file under German sense of humour)
It seems to have met a need, perhaps until then unfelt, for anglophones.
Do people use it (or a cognate word) in your country?
But of course. The Dutch word for it is 'schadenfreude'.
No it isn't :)
Post by J. J. Lodder
(and frowned upon)
Jan
--
Bart Dinnissen
Lewis
2019-01-20 18:48:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even identical to
Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that those two words can have
opposite meanings and need context, unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a positive (joy)
and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction), whereas as Schadenfreude
only has the negative meaning.
With you so far.
Post by Peeler
"He rubbed his hands in glee" is definitely the same as Schadenfreude.
Not at all. "After realizing he held a billion dollar winning lottery
ticket, he rubbed his hands in glee."
--
#27794 <Vellius> ... I wonder if the really nerdy Klingons learn how to
speak English
RHDraney
2019-01-20 20:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Peeler
"He rubbed his hands in glee" is definitely the same as Schadenfreude.
Not at all. "After realizing he held a billion dollar winning lottery
ticket, he rubbed his hands in glee."
I believe it was Steve Allen who offered up "he rubbed his hands with
Glee (a popular brand of detergent at the time)"....r
J. J. Lodder
2019-01-20 21:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Peeler
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure - instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally "damage-joy"). "
"Glee" and "gloating" come very much close to or are even identical to
Schadenfreude. Only difference seems to be that those two words can have
opposite meanings and need context, unlike Schadenfreude.
So, without context, "he watched them with glee" could have a positive (joy)
and a negative meaning (malicious satisfaction), whereas as Schadenfreude
only has the negative meaning.
With you so far.
Post by Peeler
"He rubbed his hands in glee" is definitely the same as Schadenfreude.
Not at all. "After realizing he held a billion dollar winning lottery
ticket, he rubbed his hands in glee."
It can indeed be a bit manic,

Jan
Lewis
2019-01-20 18:36:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
"So it is odd that the English language does not have a word for this
grubby little pleasure – instead we have to borrow from the German and
call it Schadenfreude (literally “damage-joy”). "
Is it fair to say that Germans do not have 'a word' for it either? Is
that not why they have to concatenate two words - as is their wont - to
express the sentiment?
German DOES have a word for it, because the way German builds words is
to stick other words together. English does this as well, of course,
unless we can find an unsuspecting language and steal a word from them.
--
Why would I ever want to go outside the Beltway?
y***@gmail.com
2019-01-20 21:14:46 UTC
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The English word is "gloating." Duh!
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2019-01-21 00:08:49 UTC
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Post by y***@gmail.com
The English word is "gloating." Duh!
No it isn't. You don't gloat over someone else's misfortune but
over your own fortune. You don't gloat over your brother's team
losing unless your team won. Schadenfreude is not conditional
upon one's own success.
Peter Moylan
2019-01-21 03:21:47 UTC
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Post by y***@gmail.com
The English word is "gloating." Duh!
Context?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
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