Post by Robert HarrisPost by Anthony MarshPost by Robert HarrisPost by Dr. Chad ZimmermanPost by Robert HarrisOne of the many ludicrous "debunkings" at mcadams website is a claim by
anthony marsh that he sent a letter to Robert Groden, advising him that he
was wrong in claiming that the apparent rifle shown in the Mentesana film,
which Groden suggested, was found in the TSBD, was actually a shotgun,
issued by the DPD.
Marsh's only justification for his claim was his opinion that the weapon
looked too large to be a rifle and so, must have been a shotgun. Of
course, marsh offered no dimensions or anything else to back up his
subjective opinion.
In fact, within five minutes of cruising the web I quickly learned that
most shotguns were generally, no larger than rifles, and in fact, military
snipers rifles were frequently, *extremely* long, for the sake of
improving accuracy.
http://jfkhistory.com/rifle.mov
You will need Quicktime 7.0 or later.
Frankly, I remain an agnostic on this subject, although I find the
recollection of AFT agent Frank Ellsworth that DPD officers said they
found two different rifles, as well as the early sworn affidavits by DPD
people, describing a Mauser rifle, to be compelling.
Yeah, because a Mauser looks a lot like a Carcano, something of which
I'm sure you already know.
Yes, hundreds of rifles looked similar to them. But this weapon was
examined by men from closeup as they held it in their hands, prior to
signing sworn affidavits that it was a Mauser.
Wrong. The only man who was there and saw the rifle and called it a
Mauser was Seymour Weitzman
Pure bullshit!!
Weitzman was accompanied by Officer Eugene Boone, who also inspected the
weapon and filed a report with the Sheriff's Office, clearly stating
that it was a 7.65mm Mauser.
Hmm. I wonder if that's an accurate representation of Boone's short
statement:
"Mr. Decker:
I was assisting in the search of the 6th floor of the Dallas County Book
Depository at Elm St. and Houston St. proceeding from the xxxxxx East side
of the building. Officer Whiteman DPD and I were together as we approched
the Northwest corner of the building xxxxxx I was the rifle partially hidden
behind a row of books with two (2) other boxes of books against the rifle.
The rifle appeared to be a 7.65 mm Mauser with a telescope sight on the
rifle. Capt. Fritz was called to the scene and also someone from the ID xxxx
pictures were taken and Capt Fritz picked up the rifle. I first saw the
rifle at 1:22pm date.
E. L. Boone 240 DSO"
"inspected" and "clearly stated"
Seems to me that he stated that it (I know you hate this word...;-))
"appeared" to be a 7.65 Mauser. Also note where he doesn't say that he
actually handled it, Bob.
From his testimony:
"When I did--I had my light in my hand. I was slinging it around on the
floor, and I caught a glimpse of the rifle, stuffed down between two rows of
boxes with another box or so pulled over the top of it. And I hollered that
the rifle was here.
Mr. BALL - What happened then?
Mr. BOONE - Some of the other officers came over to look at it. I told them
to stand back, not to get around close, they might want to take prints of
some of the boxes, and not touch the rifle. And at that time Captain Fritz
and an ID man came over. I believe the ID man's name was Lieutenant Day--I
am not sure. They came over and the weapon was photographed as it lay. And
at that time Captain Fritz picked it up by the strap, and it was removed
from the place where it was."
-------------------------
Mr. BOONE - It looks like the same rifle. I have no way of being positive.
Mr. BALL - You never handled it?
Mr. BOONE - I did not touch the weapon at all.
-------------------------
"Mr. BALL - There is one question. Did you hear anybody refer to this rifle
as a Mauser that day?
Mr. BOONE - Yes, I did. And at first, not knowing what it was, I thought it
was 7.65 Mauser.
Mr. BALL - Who referred to it as a Mauser that day?
Mr. BOONE - I believe Captain Fritz. He had knelt down there to look at it,
and before he removed it, not knowing what it was, he said that is what it
looks like. This is when Lieutenant Day, I believe his name is, the ID man
was getting ready to photograph it.
We were just discussing it beck and forth. And he said it looks like a 7.65
Mauser."
--------------------------
Boy, Bob, that really doesn't fit what you say about Boone, does it?
You have seen the film of the Carcano being taken from the TSBD, right Bob?
It appears to
have a Japanese 4x18 scope on it, doesn't it? It also has a leather strap.
It also has two of the
three numbers on it. It also looks like a Mauser.
This reminds me of one of the convening panels that mislabeled the lateral
autopsy x-rays
as being both left lateral films. The 'R' marker had been turned just a bit
and 'on a glance'
appeared to be an 'L'. But, when I really looked at it, I could see that it
was an 'R'.
Post by Robert HarrisThe next day, district attorney, Henry Wade gave a press conference,
confirming exactly what both of the officers stated and documented.
Wade had never handled the rifle and was given bad second hand information.
The guy probably
wouldn't know the difference between a Mauser and a Howitzer.
Post by Robert HarrisPost by Anthony Marshand he admitted that he was wrong.
What?!
A cop changed his story to match the official line??
Say it ain't so, Tony:-)
Yeah, cops don't make mistakes...just ask Barry Scheck.
Post by Robert HarrisPost by Anthony MarshAnd he
did not handle it or examine it closely.
Ahh yes! After an "off record discusion", he declared that he only
"glanced" at it.
Boone actually stated that it *appeared* to be a Mauser which, as you know
by now, isn't a very conclusive statement, Bob.
Post by Robert HarrisNot bad, for getting the make, the caliber, the exact spec of the scope
and a even a detailed description of the sling.
The writing on the scope could easily be seen. The caliber, however,
isn't as easy to note. One thinking 7.65 could probably see the 65 on
it and think 765. Unlike the scope, it is not painted in white letters. It
is
engraved and blued with the rest of the metal and is only seen on a small
spot near the rear sight.
I suppose there just happened to be a 7.65mm Mauser on the 6th floor with
an identical Japanese scope on it with a similar leather shoulder strap
matching
the Carcano's.
The only think he got wrong was that a 7 didn't precede the 65 on the gun..a
capital
'L' did. Viewed at a glance, the long portion of the 'L' might appear to be
a preconceived
7. Its kind of like when you have it in your head that there were 5 shots
that day and
you start looking everywhere for things that support 5 shots...;-)
I know, Bob, such mistakes don't happen and the DPD was an excellent machine
that wouldn't employ anyone that could make that kind of mistake.
Post by Robert HarrisAnd since when do police officers sign sworn affidavits containing all
that detail, based on a casual "glance"?
He probably did see much of that. He may even have seen the 65 on it. Not
being familiar with 6.5mm rifles, one might actually think 765 instead.
Post by Robert HarrisAfter that, Captain Fritz, officer Day, officer Boone, and other
officers looked at that same rifle, and NOT ONE of them disputed the
claim that it was a 7.65 Mauser.
Day claims that he dictated that it was a 6.5mm to his secretary. The gun
was then sent to the FBI who positively identified it as the Carcano that
was
seen on the film being taken from its hiding place and marched into the DPD.
Post by Robert HarrisPost by Anthony MarshHe only looked at it from a few
feet away.
You have no idea what he did.
You would if you'd believe his testimony. But, you only believe the
testimony
when you want to believe it. Of course, all are guilty of that.
Post by Robert HarrisYou only know what he claimed he did in order to rationalize totally
changing his story.
You only think he's rationalizing and bending over for the gov't
investigation.
Post by Robert HarrisPost by Anthony MarshYou need to do more than just look at the rifle. It is
clearly stamped Terni which is not a Mauser identification mark. The
Fascist date stamping never appears on Mausers.
Post by Robert HarrisFurthermore, it was part of their job to accurately describe weapons
that might have been involved in a crime. Murder weapons especially, had
to be properly ID'd or the guilty parties would walk.
You are assuming an abnormally high level of competence for the local
police. They couldn't even figure out what type of bullet almost hit Walker.
Abnormally high??
This was Dallas, not Mudville Flats. They handled thousands of murder
cases and never had a reputation for incompetence. You people would have
them making more "mistakes" on this one case than they did on the
previous 100.
Yeah, Bob, this murder was just a simple old plain murder in Dallas without
intervention
of the SS, FBI, etc.
It is unique, Bob. The 5 million pages on it should be a clue to that.
Chad
Post by Robert HarrisRobert Harris
Post by Anthony MarshPost by Robert HarrisPost by Dr. Chad ZimmermanPost by Robert HarrisIn the film, the small group of men do indeed, seem to be fixated on the
rifle the officer is holding, and apparently, talking about.
LOL!
Chad, I love it when you have to resort to such lame ridicule when you
have no way to counter an argument.
Post by Dr. Chad ZimmermanSo, in a silent film, you know what they're talking about when most
of the guys' faces are away from the camera! Amazing!
When did you decide I knew what they were talking about?
Have you noticed how often you have to focus your ridicule on your own
fabrications, rather than on what I actually say?
All I said was the obvious, Chad. These guys are totally focused on that
weapon, whatever it was and for whatever reason. You can insult me from
http://jfkhistory.com/rifle.mov
Post by Dr. Chad ZimmermanFirst of all, at the beginning of the clip, it appears to be the officer
talking (watch
his head nodding and the hand movement) and
everyone is looking at him. Then, attention appears to be shifted to a guy
to
the left of the officer. There is no indication of any kind that they're
transfixed
by a weapon he's holding. This is another of your wishful scenarios.
This is America, Chad. You have every right to state your opinion, no
matter how "moronic" it is:-)
Robert Harris
Post by Dr. Chad ZimmermanIt makes no
Post by Robert Harrissense that they would be so totally engrossed in a standard issue shotgun.
And how can you tell that they're talking about the gun? You can't.
Post by Robert HarrisOTOH, I have to wonder why such a weapon wouldn't be wrapped up and
protected from contamination, rather than on display in the street.
Because it most likely was a police issue shotgun, Bob. That's what cops
use.
Post by Robert HarrisOf course, if we believe the LNT team, the DPD cops did things that were a
lot stupider than that:-)
Which has nothing to do with that clip.
Chad
Post by Robert HarrisRobert Harris
--
There is no question an honest man will evade.
www.jfkhistory.com
--
There is no question an honest man will evade.