somewhat off-topic: command line on iOS

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Having sadly noted the fact that my VMS web browsers are increasingly
not good enough (or that web pages are increasingly overcomplicated with
bells and whistles), and that VSI probably won't offer a modern broswer
on VMS until I get around to convincing Elon Musk to fund it (how cool
would it be to have VMS the first proper OS on Mars?), for some things I
am forced to using a non-VMS system and then need to get downloaded
files to and from VMS.

Sure, for watching YouTube or whatever I can do it on a standalone
device. But much of what I do via a webbrowser involved uploading or
downloading files or other information, most of the time involving
information I have on VMS (and want to keep there).

About 5 years ago, I bought an iPad pro, mainly for two reasons: for
mobile internet access (I don't have a smartphone and even if I did I
would like a larger screen)---my first app was a VT220 emulator for
logging in to my cluster remotely---and for reading PDF files formatted
for A4. I still use it mostly for those things, though occasionally as
an internet radio or "standalone" browsing (news, weather, public
transportation etc.), usually while travelling.

Since I have the iPad anyway, it seems that I should use that as my VMS
broswer extension. (No, I don't own a PC and have no plans to.) While
it is possible to download something and save it on the iPad, I find
things a bit confusing, and getting it off the iPad somehow simpler than
mailing it is an attachment from some web-based mail program would be
desirable.

It seems what I need is some sort of terminal application. Something
like that exists for MacOS. One can then use unix(-like) commands such
as cp, rm, mkdir and so on to move files around, ls to see what's there,
and so on. Throw in (s)ftp and I have what I need, though it might be a
race to keep SSH stuff on VMS current enough. Since I would use it only
within the internal network anyway, FTP (at least in the internal
network) would actually be preferable.

Does something like that exists for the iPad? (I'm not interested in
jailbreaking it.)

I spent some time trying to find something, but to no avail. There are
tools designed for accessing other systems, but what I want is a prompt
on the iPad. (I don't have to access all the directories, just stuff
where I save files and/or it would be nice to be able to specify a
location I can access.) There are various command-line interfaces, but
they execute more or less standalone commands, rather than interacting
with files on the system.

[John Dallman]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
I spent some time trying to find something, but to no avail. There
are tools designed for accessing other systems, but what I want is
a prompt on the iPad. (I don't have to access all the directories,
just stuff where I save files and/or it would be nice to be able to
specify a location I can access.) There are various command-line
interfaces, but they execute more or less standalone commands,
rather than interacting with files on the system.

The iPad OS is deliberately designed to NOT be a general-purpose computer,
and there are enforcement mechanisms for that. In particular, the
"software tools" approach was rejected at the start of designing the OS,
and has not been allowed back in.

Apple are not, in their thinking, a computer company. They're much more
like a fashion house, whose products happen to be electronics, software,
and digital media, rather than clothing, accessories and jewelry. Their
model of a customer is of someone who's motivated by fashion and status,
rather than someone who wants to do technical work of any kind. Because
these people have money, or they would not be buying Apple products,
there are many iPad software products that press up against the limits of
the OS, but those limits cannot be exceeded without jailbreaking.

In this group, I can readily explain how those limits work. The key
feature is that an iPad should /never/ require any kind of system
administration. A key feature of this is that apps cannot interact with
each other. Each app is given two directory trees, whose (long) names are
determined randomly at installation. One contains its executables and
application-provided data, and the other is used to hold user-created
data, temporary files, and so on. The application cannot access any other
directory trees on the device; it doesn't have permissions to do so, and
has no way to acquire any kind of super-user privileges that would allow
it to bypass those restrictions.

The underlying operating system is UNIX-like, but does not have a "shell"
or other command-line interface. It isn't just hidden, it really isn't
there. One of the first things that's normally done on a jailbroken
device is to install a command-line interpreter and a set of utility
programs for it. However, jailbreaking requires discovering a usable
security vulnerability in iPadOS, and Apple try hard to close those off.

The OS does provide some facilities for transferring data between apps
and the OS, which can be used in a multi-hop approach to move data
between apps. However, this only works for movies, music and photographs,
and only if they're in the right formats. You could hide other kinds of
data in those files, but at this point it's obvious that you're using the
wrong tools.

It would be possible to offer a command line interpreter embedded in an
iPadOS app, along with utilities. However, it would not be much use,
since it would only be able to deal with the files in its own directory
tree, and could not see files downloaded by a web browser. Also, if this
was offered, Apple would probably refuse to distribute it.

I went through all this a few years ago when I needed to port a software
test harness that runs as a command-line app to the iPad. It was a
painful experience.

John

[Dave Froble]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Having sadly noted the fact that my VMS web browsers are increasingly
not good enough (or that web pages are increasingly overcomplicated with
bells and whistles), and that VSI probably won't offer a modern broswer
on VMS until I get around to convincing Elon Musk to fund it (how cool
would it be to have VMS the first proper OS on Mars?), for some things I
am forced to using a non-VMS system and then need to get downloaded
files to and from VMS.

I'm not sure a browser is the best tool for downloading data from the
web. Rather easy when it works. Doesn't always work well.

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Sure, for watching YouTube or whatever I can do it on a standalone
device. But much of what I do via a webbrowser involved uploading or
downloading files or other information, most of the time involving
information I have on VMS (and want to keep there).
About 5 years ago, I bought an iPad pro, mainly for two reasons: for
mobile internet access (I don't have a smartphone and even if I did I
would like a larger screen)---my first app was a VT220 emulator for
logging in to my cluster remotely---and for reading PDF files formatted
for A4. I still use it mostly for those things, though occasionally as
an internet radio or "standalone" browsing (news, weather, public
transportation etc.), usually while travelling.

Tablets are interesting, as in "may you live in interesting times".

Their purpose is to be a communications device for accessing the web.
For most else they really suck.

Usually no "real" KB
No easy to get at things
Too small
Confusing
....

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Since I have the iPad anyway, it seems that I should use that as my VMS
broswer extension. (No, I don't own a PC and have no plans to.) While
it is possible to download something and save it on the iPad, I find
things a bit confusing, and getting it off the iPad somehow simpler than
mailing it is an attachment from some web-based mail program would be
desirable.

In my opinion (yeah, what do you care about my opinion) you're
approaching this poorly. If what you want is some type of relay between
the web and VMS, why not go for something reasonable.

I use WEENDOZE for some things. I really don't like the more recent
versions of WEENDOZE. Nor do I like the directions web sites are taking.

Since I haven't done it yet, the following is speculation. What I'm
thinking of doing. Read what some have posted here about Unix/Linex and
select some version. Get or build a cheap PC, good enough to run your
OS of choice. Use it to gather whatever data you want, and use it to
transfer that data to VMS.

Or play with the tablet ....

[Stephen Hoffman]

Post by Dave Froble
I'm not sure a browser is the best tool for downloading data from the
web. Rather easy when it works. Doesn't always work well.

Transferring files around can use the Apple Files app on iOS and
iPadOS, or a file-transfer app (as was referenced in my previous reply
to this thread), or the Safari web browser, depending on the situation.
Sometimes even as Mail attachments.

If the SMB server isn't loaded on OpenVMS, those OpenVMS file transfers
will involve FTP, sftp, or maybe via HTTP/HTTPS or WebDAV—though those
services are not always configured and enabled.

Post by Dave Froble
Tablets are interesting, as in "may you live in interesting times".
Their purpose is to be a communications device for accessing the web.
For most else they really suck.
Usually no "real" KB
No easy to get at things
Too small
Confusing
....

I utilize iPad and iPhone heavily.

The local iPad configuration has a hardware keyboard when I need that,
and a virtual keyboard the rest of the time. With the iPad, I'm usually
using the virtual keyboard too, save for when I might need to input
volumes of text.

Apple has keyboard offerings including keyboard and keyboard dock
models, and pretty much any recent iPad can connect to a Bluetooth
hardware keyboard, and most third-party Bluetooth keyboards will work
just fine.

I'm routinely transferring files and text and documents around too, and
have clients for ftp, sftp, telnet, and ssh installed, when that's
needed.

Do I use an iPad for programming or other cases when a larger display
is appropriate? No. (Mostly no.) iPad and iPhone are heavily-used
adjuncts to a Mac, and not replacements. Not for my workload. Others'
workloads can and do differ.

If you always need a keyboard, then MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, or
another laptop might be a better choice, as iPad and keyboard
combination tends to be heavier than the laptop. But iPad without the
keyboard is rather lighter.

iPad models can be acquired with integrated cellular, while cellular on
Macs is always an add-on. Or either via hotspot, if your cellular plan
offers that.

iPad can also be used as an external display and graphics / touchpad
for a Mac, for those devices that support the so-called Sidecar feature.

Post by Dave Froble
In my opinion (yeah, what do you care about my opinion) you're
approaching this poorly. If what you want is some type of relay
between the web and VMS, why not go for something reasonable.
I use WEENDOZE for some things. I really don't like the more recent
versions of WEENDOZE. Nor do I like the directions web sites are taking.
Since I haven't done it yet, the following is speculation. What I'm
thinking of doing. Read what some have posted here about Unix/Linex
and select some version. Get or build a cheap PC, good enough to run
your OS of choice. Use it to gather whatever data you want, and use it
to transfer that data to VMS.
Or play with the tablet ....

Or the Apple equivalents of that hardware, for those inclined. macOS
does well for inter-operations with OpenVMS, and will look familiar to
somebody accustomed to iPhone or iPad. And for sharing iCloud, for
those willing to use hosted services.

[Arne Vajhøj]

Post by Dave Froble

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Having sadly noted the fact that my VMS web browsers are increasingly
not good enough (or that web pages are increasingly overcomplicated with
bells and whistles), and that VSI probably won't offer a modern broswer
on VMS until I get around to convincing Elon Musk to fund it (how cool
would it be to have VMS the first proper OS on Mars?), for some things I
am forced to using a non-VMS system and then need to get downloaded
files to and from VMS.

I'm not sure a browser is the best tool for downloading data from the
web.  Rather easy when it works.  Doesn't always work well.

If a browser can't download it correctly then likely
nothing can.

But something command line that can be scripted is
just so much nicer for download.

Unfortunately login requirement and session cookie,
download links dynamically created by JavaScript etc.
sometimes makes a browser convenient, because it knows
how to deal with all that.

Arne

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Dave Froble
I'm not sure a browser is the best tool for downloading data from the
web. Rather easy when it works. Doesn't always work well.

Right. If I have a browser on the same system, I might use curl or
wget. But if I don't have a browser on the system....

Post by Dave Froble
Their purpose is to be a communications device for accessing the web.
For most else they really suck.
Usually no "real" KB

I have one which is better than most non-DEC keyboards.

Post by Dave Froble
No easy to get at things

Right.

Post by Dave Froble
Too small

Bigger screen than a VT320.

Post by Dave Froble
Confusing

Usually not so much.

Post by Dave Froble
In my opinion (yeah, what do you care about my opinion) you're
approaching this poorly. If what you want is some type of relay between
the web and VMS, why not go for something reasonable.
I use WEENDOZE for some things. I really don't like the more recent
versions of WEENDOZE. Nor do I like the directions web sites are taking.
Since I haven't done it yet, the following is speculation. What I'm
thinking of doing. Read what some have posted here about Unix/Linex and
select some version. Get or build a cheap PC, good enough to run your
OS of choice. Use it to gather whatever data you want, and use it to
transfer that data to VMS.

Running Windows in order to be able to use VMS properly reminds me of
the "alliance" between Palmer and Gates back in the 1990s. I have my
pride.

I really don't like Windows. I don't like linux. I don't like the fact
that there isn't a modern browser on VMS.

Sigh.

[David Wade]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
I really don't like Windows. I don't like linux. I don't like the fact
that there isn't a modern browser on VMS.

You don't like LINUX but you do like the multiple walled gardens that
make up the Apple empire. So on an iPad you can't even set the
application to run when a PDF file is downloaded...

... but thus may do what you need. I have no idea if it works

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/ftpmanager-ftp-sftp-client/id525959186

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Sigh.

Dave

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by David Wade

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
I really don't like Windows. I don't like linux. I don't like the fact
that there isn't a modern browser on VMS.

You don't like LINUX but you do like the multiple walled gardens that
make up the Apple empire.

Apple is good at what it does. My wife has an iPhone and a MacBook, my
children have iPad Air, I have an iPad pro. We've never had any problem
with them; they just work out of the box. That is the goal and it is
accomplished. Practically no work for me. Perhaps they aren't the
right tools for the job, but that isn't the fault of Apple. Actually, a
MacBook or whatever WOULD be the right tool for the job, but the real
problem is the combination of lack of a modern web browser and sites
which are much too complicated (otherwise I could use Lynx for almost
everything I do, which I did until many sites implemented bells and
whistles with JavaScript and so on so that one needs a modern GUI to
navigate it). It seems like overkill to have something like a laptop
merely got get files from my VMS user disk to the web or vice versa,
hence I was hoping to somehow solve this problem using stuff I already
have.

Post by David Wade
application to run when a PDF file is downloaded...

If I look at a PDF in the browser on an iPad it just appears on the
screen.

Post by David Wade
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/ftpmanager-ftp-sftp-client/id525959186

Thanks; I'll have a look.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
It seems like overkill to have something like a laptop
merely got get files from my VMS user disk to the web...

It is of course absolutely impossible to comment on something such as
fuzzy as "the web". That can be a lot of different things.

We move files from from our VMS user disks to "the web" all the time.
"The web" in this case is just another VMS directly served by WASD.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
It seems like overkill to have something like a laptop
merely got get files from my VMS user disk to the web...

It is of course absolutely impossible to comment on something such as
fuzzy as "the web". That can be a lot of different things.
We move files from from our VMS user disks to "the web" all the time.
"The web" in this case is just another VMS directly served by WASD.

There is at least one FTP client listed in the app store for the iPad

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by ***@gmail.com
There is at least one FTP client listed in the app store for the iPad

I tried one out today; seemed rather flaky and hung.

[Simon Clubley]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by ***@gmail.com
There is at least one FTP client listed in the app store for the iPad

I tried one out today; seemed rather flaky and hung.

Was it running in active or passive mode ?

If it wasn't running in passive mode, try switching to that mode and
try again.

Simon.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Simon Clubley

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by ***@gmail.com
There is at least one FTP client listed in the app store for the iPad

I tried one out today; seemed rather flaky and hung.

Was it running in active or passive mode ?
If it wasn't running in passive mode, try switching to that mode and
try again.

I started out in passive, and it would seem to work at first, but
stopped after about 97% of the transfer had been completed (whatever the
file size). I then tried active, and it hung so bad that I had to
delete it. :-(

I'm not sure if it can actually transmit the files which I have
downloaded; maybe that's not possible at all.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by ***@gmail.com
There is at least one FTP client listed in the app store for the iPad

I tried one out today; seemed rather flaky and hung.

I don't use them, so I have no idea if they are viable or not. too bad, it seemed like a clean solution.

we could always try to port Kermit to the iPad... :-)

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by ***@gmail.com

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by ***@gmail.com
There is at least one FTP client listed in the app store for the iPad

I tried one out today; seemed rather flaky and hung.

I don't use them, so I have no idea if they are viable or not. too bad, it seemed like a clean solution.
we could always try to port Kermit to the iPad... :-)

The deciding factor is whether I can access downloaded files from the
ftp app. I still don't know if that is possible.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by ***@gmail.com

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by ***@gmail.com
There is at least one FTP client listed in the app store for the iPad

I tried one out today; seemed rather flaky and hung.

I don't use them, so I have no idea if they are viable or not. too bad, it seemed like a clean solution.
we could always try to port Kermit to the iPad... :-)

The deciding factor is whether I can access downloaded files from the
ftp app. I still don't know if that is possible.

Having said that, looking for a replacement for RSS feeds in a browser I
came across Fiery Feeds. Seems like just what I need.

[David Wade]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by David Wade

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
I really don't like Windows. I don't like linux. I don't like the fact
that there isn't a modern browser on VMS.

You don't like LINUX but you do like the multiple walled gardens that
make up the Apple empire.

Apple is good at what it does. My wife has an iPhone and a MacBook, my
children have iPad Air, I have an iPad pro. We've never had any problem
with them; they just work out of the box. That is the goal and it is
accomplished. Practically no work for me. Perhaps they aren't the
right tools for the job, but that isn't the fault of Apple. Actually, a
MacBook or whatever WOULD be the right tool for the job, but the real
problem is the combination of lack of a modern web browser and sites
which are much too complicated (otherwise I could use Lynx for almost
everything I do, which I did until many sites implemented bells and
whistles with JavaScript and so on so that one needs a modern GUI to
navigate it). It seems like overkill to have something like a laptop
merely got get files from my VMS user disk to the web or vice versa,
hence I was hoping to somehow solve this problem using stuff I already
have.

Post by David Wade
application to run when a PDF file is downloaded...

If I look at a PDF in the browser on an iPad it just appears on the
screen.

Yes, using the default IPAD app which won't let me annotate it. If I
have a Spanish Text book as a PDF in my iCloud and I want to open it in
Adobe or Foxit edit it and save it back I have to run round in circles.

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by David Wade
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/ftpmanager-ftp-sftp-client/id525959186

Thanks; I'll have a look.

[Stephen Hoffman]

Post by David Wade
Yes, using the default IPAD app which won't let me annotate it. If I
have a Spanish Text book as a PDF in my iCloud and I want to open it in
Adobe or Foxit edit it and save it back I have to run round in circles.

Prolly not your preferred target, but I use the Books app for that; for
hand-written notes, and for text highlighting and annoting books and
PDFs.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Stephen Hoffman

Post by David Wade
Yes, using the default IPAD app which won't let me annotate it. If I
have a Spanish Text book as a PDF in my iCloud and I want to open it in
Adobe or Foxit edit it and save it back I have to run round in circles.

Prolly not your preferred target, but I use the Books app for that; for
hand-written notes, and for text highlighting and annoting books and
PDFs.

I like the books app, but haven't figure out yet how to get a
substantial number organized. Now, if I had access to a command line,
could create directories and rename files...but I digress. Or should
that be regress?

What I have discovered is the Fiery Feeds app, which seems really nice.
With a good RSS feed reader, blogs can be made almost as efficient as
usenet. :-) But it would still be nice to type blog comments in EDT.
Fortunately the Apple keypad is reasonably close to the LK layout.

[Stephen Hoffman]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
I like the books app, but haven't figure out yet how to get a
substantial number organized.

Files can be renamed in Books.

Click on the ellipsis, and select Rename.

Apple offers "Collections" as a way to partition the library contents.

I have ~600 iBook, epub, and PDF documents loaded, with ~twenty collections.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Stephen Hoffman

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
I like the books app, but haven't figure out yet how to get a
substantial number organized.

Files can be renamed in Books.
Click on the ellipsis, and select Rename.
Apple offers "Collections" as a way to partition the library contents.

I'll have to investigate that. Ideally there could be collections of
collections, but I don't need that (yet).

A few years ago, I bought an ePub reader (also reads .TXT and .PDF
files, but of course is designed for ePub)---intentionally not a
Kindle---which worked fine until a) most of my locally stored books
disappeared and b) not all of them could be downloaded from the cloud
backup. In addition, some I can no longer read because the encryption
method is no longer supported. Some, but not all, of these I can read
with Adobe Digital Editions, which I had installed on the iPad for
completely different reasons. But for reading on the beach, I want an
e-ink reader, not an iPad (less glare, longer battery life, handier
(than an iPad Pro).

Unfortunately, the support people have made no progress at all. While
for several reasons I want to stick with ePubs, I need a good ePub
reader which actually works. One disadvantage of the one (tolino) I
have is that while it is easy to get books onto it, it is difficult to
get them off. That means that it is not trivial to make a backup.
Ideally, that wouldn't be needed, since there is the cloud and one can
copy stuff between the reader and the cloud, sync automatically, and so
on. Of course, a backup contains not just the books but also my own
notes connected with them. As such, something like that is probably not
portable, but still it would be nice to have a supported means of making
a backup to an external medium.

Any suggestions?

An advantage of the tolino system (when it works) is that I could also
read stuff on the iPad, in those rare cases where I needed high
resolution and/or colour.

[Stephen Hoffman]

A few years ago, I bought an ePub reader... An advantage of the tolino
system (when it works) is that I could also read stuff on the iPad, in
those rare cases where I needed high resolution and/or colour.

I am not familiar with the tolino ePub system, nor with its hosting and
storage and backup requirements.

The Books app can read and write common ePub files, and the Apple Books
format involves extensions to ePub.

Various folks have downloaded and read a few older books from Project
Gutenberg and elsewhere using ePub and PDF formats, for instance.

I've purchased a number of ePub books from Apple and from other
sources, and read them using Books. Same for free downloads from
Project Gutenberg, etc.

The Calibre eBook app can be useful for viewing or converting or
unsnarling ePub and other formats, too. https://calibre-ebook.com/about

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Stephen Hoffman
I am not familiar with the tolino ePub system, nor with its hosting and
storage and backup requirements.

Several major brick-and-mortar bookstores in several European countries
support it. The cloud is hosted by Germany's biggest phone company.
One can buy eBooks in the stores and they appear directly in the cloud
and can be downloaded, or one can upload files via a USB cable (or via
the built-in webbrowser). The device itself is similar to a Kindle.
There is also an app (useful for colour and/or high-resolution stuff).
One can synchronize reading and notes across devices. Supports
Adobe-ID.

Worked fine for 5 years. :-(

I'm just wondering if there is anything similar, apart from Kindle
(which is really not similar---technically one doesn't own the books,
content can be (and has been) changed and deleted, the format is
proprietary, etc.).

Post by Stephen Hoffman
The Books app can read and write common ePub files, and the Apple Books
format involves extensions to ePub.
Various folks have downloaded and read a few older books from Project
Gutenberg and elsewhere using ePub and PDF formats, for instance.
I've purchased a number of ePub books from Apple and from other
sources, and read them using Books. Same for free downloads from
Project Gutenberg, etc.

I've been reading a book in Books (mainly because of colour and
high-resolution images). I'll definitely invest more time in it. But
it's not what I want for reading on the beach, on the train, etc.

[David Wade]

Post by Stephen Hoffman

Post by David Wade
Yes, using the default IPAD app which won't let me annotate it. If I
have a Spanish Text book as a PDF in my iCloud and I want to open it
in Adobe or Foxit edit it and save it back I have to run round in
circles.

Prolly not your preferred target, but I use the Books app for that; for
hand-written notes, and for text highlighting and annoting books and PDFs.

Does it integrate well with the icloud?

Dave

[Stephen Hoffman]

Post by David Wade

Post by Stephen Hoffman

Post by David Wade
Yes, using the default IPAD app which won't let me annotate it. If I
have a Spanish Text book as a PDF in my iCloud and I want to open it in
Adobe or Foxit edit it and save it back I have to run round in circles.

Prolly not your preferred target, but I use the Books app for that; for
hand-written notes, and for text highlighting and annoting books and PDFs.

Does it integrate well with the icloud?

Does Books integrate with iCloud? Yes.

Books and any annotations can be synch'd using Finder or iTunes (Mac)
or using iTunes (Windows) and a cable connection, or using iCloud and a
network connection.

Books can be backed up to iCloud, and purchases can re-downloaded.

Loading and unloading from and to other stores is supported.

I use local backups of the device (to Mac, though backups to iCloud are
supported), and with backups of iCloud storage to local storage.

Many folks use iCloud for storage and device backups entirely, and may
or may not back up iCloud storage locally.

Using Books: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201478

Backing up iCloud data locally: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204055

[Stephen Hoffman]

Post by Stephen Hoffman
Loading and unloading from and to other stores is supported.

Other (file) stores—SMB, etc., and prolly even via USB flash drive
transfer though I've not tried that.

Other (book) stores can be imported using HTTPS downloads, or other
file transfers.

I usually load the ePub or PDF onto a Mac, and then synch contents from
there using iCloud.

[David Wade]

Post by David Wade

Post by Stephen Hoffman

Post by David Wade
Yes, using the default IPAD app which won't let me annotate it. If I
have a Spanish Text book as a PDF in my iCloud and I want to open it
in Adobe or Foxit edit it and save it back I have to run round in
circles.

Prolly not your preferred target, but I use the Books app for that;
for hand-written notes, and for text highlighting and annoting books
and PDFs.

Does it integrate well with the icloud?
Dave

Stephen,


Well despite that being a right Pain in the Bum it seems to be usable by
my wife. Getting the PDF's from one-drive to books was challenging, it
keeps annotations goodness knows where, but shw knows how to use it...

.. of course the issue is its now in a walled apple garden...

Dave

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by David Wade
Well despite that being a right Pain in the Bum it seems to be usable by
my wife. Getting the PDF's from one-drive to books was challenging, it
keeps annotations goodness knows where, but shw knows how to use it...
... of course the issue is its now in a walled apple garden...

Some prefer walls to Windows. :-)

[Stephen Hoffman]

Post by David Wade
Well despite that being a right Pain in the Bum it seems to be usable
by my wife. Getting the PDF's from one-drive to books was challenging,
it keeps annotations goodness knows where, but shw knows how to use
it...

There might be some user interface and user requirements details and
differences and expectations there to reflect upon, maybe?

UI design is challenging. Designs that are simpler to use and that look
easy are commonly much more challenging to create, too.

Post by David Wade
.. of course the issue is its now in a walled apple garden...

There are various ways that annotations can be exported.

ps: Welcome to OpenVMS and its walled garden.

[Stephen Hoffman]

...But much of what I do via a webbrowser involved uploading or
downloading files or other information, most of the time involving
information I have on VMS (and want to keep there)...

Here is one of various FTP/sftp apps (this one is free):
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ftpmanager-ftp-sftp-client/id525959186

And if you've not already skimmed this, the iPad User's Guide book (free):
https://books.apple.com/us/book/ipad-user-guide/id1515995498