Post by j***@hotmail.comPost by MavisbeaconPost by j***@hotmail.comI am only talking about Iraq. If you are going to bring up every type
of torture used in US history, it would only be fair for me to compare
with tortures throughout Iraqi history. I guarantee you, theirs would
be far worse both in numbers and intensity.
Eh John you are contradicting yourself are you not? CIA prisions include
the like of Egypt say, but by far the largest "CIA prison" not on US soil,
where "rendition" prisioners are brought is Guantanamo Bay. The people
there are NOT only from Iraq! <snip>
You are missing the point here. What we did to Native Americans back
in the 1800s does not have a whole lot of bearing on what we are doing
in Iraq today.
Why not?
It was wrong to massacre people at Wounded Knee or Mai Lai. Just as it is
wrong to torture degrade of massacre civilians in Iraq today. As for the
latter of these I don't know but falluja might be a candidate.
Post by j***@hotmail.comIf it does, then I can start by listing every past
crime of torture and abuse of every enemy of the US in Iraq, and we
will be going at it all day.
Which is the whole point of the justice system. To go into (not necessarily
to punish) every instance of abuse.
Post by j***@hotmail.comThe main point is the the US media,
indeed the world media, went into a feeding frenzy over the tortures
at Abu Gharayb, yet those tortures were extremely mild compared to the
ones carried out by insurgents on a daily basis.
So what? It isn't for forces of so called "civilised" countries to behave as
terrorists do. the IRA set of bombs all over Britian and Ireland and Europe.
But that does not justify the British security forces assaassinating people
in Gibralta or in planning the Dublin/Monaghan bombings does it? Indeed
Bloody Sunday (both the ont in Dublin in the 1920s and the one in Derry) are
also good examples since they depicy troops openly killing civilians having
suffered troop losses of their own at the hands of the IRA.
Indeed any such behaviour plays into the hands of guerilla forces.
Post by j***@hotmail.comI have seen these
with my own eyes. I have seen dead Iraqis dumped by the side of the
road with drill holes in their bodies. How do you think those holes
got there?
Eh drills maybe? While this is all very horrible wehat has it got to do with
the point?
To be callous so what? So what if there are evil Iraqui murderers (and most
of these are probably perpretrated by Iraquis and not by imported
fundamentalists)?
That does not justify US troops behaving in the same manner!
You remind me of Col. Walter Kurtz. based on Hemmingwasy Heart of Darkness
but set in Cambodia.
He tell a story of US troops in Viet Nam coming into a village and
inoculating all the children. Next day they returned to witness a pile of
arms. the Viet Cong had cut off every inoculated arm. This is what
fundamentalists do. It isn't justified but you must see the reason for it.
The reason struck Kurtz like a "diamond bullet" straight to the forehead.
Brando plays it well "The Horror! The Horror!"
We neednt go into that unless you want to but the point still stands. That
does not justify US troops behaving in the same manner!
But please don't tell me of the US interest in drills. Clearly the
administration is far more interested in oil drills.
Post by j***@hotmail.comI have seen bodies with all their toes cut off. How do you
think that happened? I guarantee you they weren't cut off after the
guy was killed. And these tortures were only done by the Mahdi militia
- believe it or not, Al-Qaeda is even worse!
Yes but the US troops are told to allow the leader of the Mhadi army to walk
aroung Baghdad!
Post by j***@hotmail.comWhere is the Muslim world's condemnation and outrage?
You really are getting into hot water on this one.
There is widespread condemnation in the Muslim world on this type of thing.
You must be reading censored or biased sources. Try reading the following
and see if you then think muslims don't condemn violence. You seem to have
an open mind. Well then go and look and see for yourself and come back if
you still think the same way and tell us why.
thank you.
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
What follows is only a links page from the above source many to other pages
with many more links. I dont even include the text just the Headlines
Muslim Leaders
A Message from the Council on American-Islamic Relations
American Muslim Leaders Condemn Attacks
American Muslims and Scholars Denounce Terrorism on Anniversary of 9/11
Australian Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attack
Bin Laden Distorts Islam, Islamic Scholars Say
Bin Laden's Idea of 'Jihad' is Out of Bounds, Islamic Scholars Say
British Muslim leaders condemn terrorism
British Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
Canadian Muslims Condemn Terorist Attacks
Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass
Murders
Islamic World Deplores U.S. Losses
Looking for Answers in Islam's Holy Book: What Islamic Scholars Have to Say
Muslim Reactions to Sept 11
Muslim Voices Against Extremism & Terrorism - Part II - Statements by
Organizations
Muslim World Condemns Attacks on U.S.
Muslim rulers condemn WTC attacks
New Zealand Muslims Condemn Terrorism
Organization of the Islamic Conference Foreign Ministers Condemn
International Terrorism
Quran a Book of Peace Not War, Islamic Scholars Say
Scholars of Islam Condemn Terrorism
Some American Muslims Take a Look at Their Communities' Shortcomings
U.S. Muslim Scholars Condemn Attacks
UK Muslim Leaders Condemn 'Lunatic Fringe'
When is jihad OK? Muslim Perspectives
Specific Muslim Scholars
Attacks on Civilians: Forbidden by Islam, by Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi
Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah of Lebanon condemns Osama Bin Laden, by
Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah
Bin Laden's Violence is a Heresy Against Islam, by AbdulHakim Murad (Tim
Winter)
Defending the Civilians (a fatwa against terrorism), by Shaykh Muhammad
Afifi al-Akiti
Expert Says Islam Prohibits Violence Against Innocents, by Shaykh Hamza
Yusuf
Grand Sheikh of al-Azhar Condemns Suicide Bombings, by Shaykh Muhammad
Sayyed Tantawi
High Mufti of Russian Muslims calls for Extradition of Bin Laden, by Russian
Muslim leaders
Iran's Supreme Leader Condemns Attacks on U.S., by Ayatollah Ali Khamanei
Islam and the Question of Violence, by Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Iranian scholar
Jihad and the Modern World, by Dr. Sherman Jackson
Jihad: Its True Meaning and Purpose, by Muzammil H. Siddiqui
Most Prominent Sunni Muslim Scholar Condemns Killing of Civilians, by Shaykh
Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi, Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University
Muslim Attitudes about Violence, by Shaykh Muhammad al-Munajjid
Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part I - Fatwas, by various
scholars
Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part IV A few Quotes, by
various scholars
On the Terrorist Attacks, by Imam Zaid Shakir
Prominent Pakistani Cleric Tahir ul Qadri condemns Bin Laden, by Tahir ul
Qadri
Reclaiming Islam from the Terrorists, by AbdulHakim Murad, British scholar
Reflections on the National Horror of September 11, 2001, by Muzammil H.
Siddiqui
Refutation of Bin Laden's Defense of Terrorism, by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani
scholar
Response to a Question about Islam and Terrorism, by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani
scholar
Saudi Clerics Condemn Terrorism, by Sheikh Abderrahman al-Sudayes
Saudi Grand Mufti Condemns Terrorist Attacks in U.S., by Shaikh Abdulaziz
Al-Ashaikh
Scholars' Statements Regarding The Attacks In The United States, by Shaykh
Abdul-Aziz Aali-Shaykh, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and President of the
Committee of Senior Scholars, and Shaykh Saleh Al-Lehaydaan, Chief Justice
Of The Saudi Arabian Judiciary, and Shaykh Dr. Saaleh Ibn Ghaanem
As-Sadlaan, Pres. Higher Studies Dept. Al-Imaam Muhammd Ibn Saud Islamic
University
Spanish Muslim Clerical authorities Issue Fatwa against Osamah Bin Laden, by
Spanish Muslim leaders
Terrorism Is at Odds With Islamic Tradition, by Khaled Abou El Fadl
Terrorism: Not a doorway to heaven, by Jamil Abdul Razzak Hajoo, of Idriss
Mosque, Seattle
The Myth of Islamic Terrorism Exploded, by Shaykh Abdul Azeez bin Abdullah
bin Baaz and Shaykh Muhammad Bin Saalih al Uthaymeen
The worst enemies of Islam are from within, by Hamza Yusuf
Top Saudi Cleric Says Attacks on U.S. a Terrible Crime in Islam, by Shaykh
Salah al-Lahidan, head of the Islamic Judiciary of Saudi Arabia
Violence Against Innocents Violates Islamic Law, by Imam Siraj Wahhaj
What is jihad? What is terrorism?, by Statement by Muslim scholars
Individual Ordinary Muslims
Special links
A Country United- Poem by a Muslim woman about September 11
Islam Denounces Terrorism- Site of Muslim scholar Harun Yahya
Muslims Against Terrorism- An organization founded by Muslims who stand
against the hijacking of Islam by extremists and terrorists
Report: Muslim Celebrities Condemn Attacks- Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens),
Muhammad Ali, Hakeem Olajuwon of the Houston Rockets
Muslim charities who solicited donations to help victims in New York City:
a.. Global Relief Foundation
b.. Islamic Relief
c.. Mercy USA
Articles, essays, and columns
Here are some things I've written myself; some of these pages may also
contain links to further condemnations of more recent events:
a step in the right direction
Al-Qaeda on defensive as bombs begin to backfire
Arab views on the Russian hostage crisis
Bali Attacks a Heinous Crime, Total Barbarism, says prominent Muslim scholar
Death and destruction in the name of Islam?
do not let hatred drive you to injustice
does the Quran really command killing unbelievers?
Even more sick
explosions in London
hell no
Hiraba versus Jihad
horror in the Caucasus
in case you hadn't noticed this story
Islamic rulings on warfare
Killing of children is an abomination, whoever does it
Muslim scholars seek to rein in 'sheikhs of death'
Muslims condemn Berg beheading
Muslims who act as if Islam had never come and its teachings had never been
revealed
not silent
not silent, not even close
Oh, God. Not again.
on the bombings in Jordan
On the terrorist attack in Indonesia
Once more with feeling
Organization of the Islamic Conference: Muslims must fight extremism
Qaradawi condemns terrorism in Qatar
Qataris demonstrate against terrorism
Saudi clerics condemn terrorism in front of 2 million Muslim pilgrims
Saudi scholars condemn violence
Sick
Sick of people who murder to advance their cause
terrorism is a return to the pre-Islamic ignorance
Terrorism is not Islam
Terrorism, again.
terrorism, fascism, Islamophobia... a strange mix indeed
terrorist attacks in Egypt
terrorists strike at the heart of Shi'a Islam
the truth about jihad
the two sides of Yusuf Qaradawi
to remember and again to condemn those who did it
Top Saudi cleric condemns terrorism
using Islam to fight terrorism
Wahhabi scholar condemns terrorism
Wahhabis condemning terrorism
When I read this in the news, my heart sank to the floor
And here are articles by other ordinary Muslims:
A Curse Upon the Brigands Who Kill Children, by Aziz Poonawalla
A Dastardly Act, by Ikram Seghal
A Muslim Surgeon's Prayer for His Fellow Americans, by Aftab Ahmad
Amid simmering religious tension, Muslims denounce killing of Christian
family, by (Associated Press report)
Area Muslims slam suicide bombing, by Washington Times report
Bin Laden's Fatwa is a Call to Plunder Not Jihad, by Aziz H. Poonawalla
Defaming, Defiling, and Falsifying Islam: A Condemnation of al-Qaeda, by
Frank M. Afflitto, convert to Islam
Does the Quran Sanction Violence?, by Mohamed Elmasry
Hirabah versus Jihad, by Robert D. Crane, convert to Islam
Horrified by What Happened in the U.S., by Ahmad Y. Majdoubeh
Human Nature at Its Worst, by Amir Meshkin
I Believe in Allah and America, by Arsalan Iftikhar
I'm Not the Enemy, by Reshma Memon Yaqub
Islam Demands a Muslim Response to 9/11 (PDF), by Imad-ad-Dean Ahmad
Islam condemns all acts of terrorism, by Daar-ul-Ehsaan
Islam is Not the Source of Terrorism, by Harun Yahya
Islam is Not to Blame, by Omar Sarwar
Islam is a Religion of Peace, Not Terrorism, by Muhammad Ali
Islam: A Home of Tolerance Not Fanaticism, by Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens)
Islamic Scholars Should Speak Up for the Truth about Islam and Jihad, by
Laila Nasheeba-Or
Jihad Means Waging Peace and Justice, by Mohamed Elmasry
May God Touch All of Us with His Infinite Grace, by Susan Abulhawa
Muslims Must Not Let Terrorism Become the Voice of Islam, by Blerime Topalli
My Fatwa on the Fanatics, by Ziauddin Sardar
Not In My Name: A Treatise Against Religious Intolerance, by Richard L.
Dixon, convert to Islam
Osama Bin Laden: An Enemy of Islam, by Muqtedar Khan
Press Release, by Khalid Usman, Councillor, Ward 7, Markham, Ontario
Some Misappropriations of Quranic Verses, by David Dakake, Islamic Research
Institute (PDF)
Terror Is Not Islam, by Kari Ann Owen (convert to Islam)
The Meaning of Jihad, by Hesham Hassaballa
The Real Meaning of the Concept of Jihad, by Ahmed Motiar
Twin Towers Viewed from a Western Minaret: Thoughts of a Convert to Islam,
by Michael Wolfe
Under Attack, by Imad-ad-Dean Ahmad
What Does the Quran's 'Verse of the Sword' Really Mean?, by Hesham A.
Hassaballa
When the innocent are murdered, we all go into the dark with them, by
Ziauddin Sardar
Who Hijacked Islam, by Anwar Ibrahim, Malaysian dissident
Messages on Muslims' Websites:
a.. Al-Islam, by scholars at a Shi'ite resource site
b.. Islam: The Modern Religion, by Fareena Alam
c.. Islamic Studies page, by Alan Godlas (convert to Islam)
d.. Kamilat, by Talibah Jilani
e.. Muslim Answers, by Abd ar-Rahman Robert Squires
f.. Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part III - Statements
& Articles by Individuals, by various individuals
See also: Muslim Imam Offers Words of Prayer at World Trade Center Memorial
Ceremony
Bonus: View This Is Islam: "Islam, it's all about peace, terrorism it
doesn't teach".
Ongoing: The Council on American-Islamic Relations
In an effort to show that Muslim activism against terrorism didn't stop
after 9/11, this section contains press releases and statements by the
Council on American-Islamic Relations condemning terrorist attacks. This is
a resource in development. Subscribe to CAIR's mailing list to keep up with
their latest statements and releases.
American Muslims Condemn Riyadh Bombings - May 23, 2003
CAIR Calls for Release of All Hostages in Iraq - Tuesday, September 21, 2004
CAIR Condemns 'Barbaric' London Terror Attacks - Thursday, July 07, 2005
CAIR Condemns Attack On Seattle Jewish Center - Saturday, July 29, 2006
CAIR Condemns Attack On U.S. Medical Personnel In Yemen - December 30, 2002
CAIR Condemns Attack on US Diplomatic Convoy in Gaza - October 15, 2003
CAIR Condemns Haifa Suicide Bombing - 10/04/2003
CAIR Condemns Hariri Assassination - Monday, February 14, 2005
CAIR Condemns Iraq Church Bombings - Sunday, August 01, 2004
CAIR Condemns Killing of British Hostage in Iraq - Friday, October 08, 2004
CAIR Condemns Murder of American in Saudi Arabia - Friday, June 18, 2004
CAIR Condemns Murder of Margaret Hassan - Wednesday, November 17, 2004
CAIR Condemns School Killings in Russia - Tuesday, September 07, 2004
CAIR Joins 'Call to Action' on Darfur Crisis - Tuesday, August 03, 2004
CAIR condemns Istanbul bombings - Thursday, November 20, 2003
CAIR condemns attacks on civilians - Thursday, March 28, 2002
CAIR condemns hostage-taking by Iraqi insurgents, calls for release of
hostages - 4/9/2004
CAIR condemns killings in Iraq, Pakistan - Tuesday, March 02, 2004
CAIR condemns murder of American in Iraq - 5/11/2004
CAIR condemns mutilation of bodies in Iraq - Wednesday, March 31, 2004
CAIR statements on the events of September 11 - (various dates)
CAIR welcomes capture of Saddam Hussein - Sunday, December 14, 2003
CAIR-CAN Condemns Anti-Semitic Graffiti - August 25, 2004
CAIR-CAN Condemns Vandalism of Jewish Homes in Toronto - Friday, March 19,
2004
CAIR-CAN condemns Daniel Pearl killing - Friday, February 22, 2002
CAIR-CAN condemns bomb attack on Passover celebration in Israel - Thursday,
March 28, 2002
CAIR-CAN condemns firebomb attack of Jewish school - Tuesday, April 06, 2004
CAIR-CAN condemns gang-rape of woman in Pakistan by tribal court - Friday,
July 05, 2002
CAIR-CAN condemns hate graffiti on Edmonton synagogue - Wednesday, December
28, 2005
CAIR-CAN condemns killing of innocent Christian worshippers in Pakistan -
Tuesday, October 30, 2001
CAIR-CAN: There is no justification for attacks on innocent people -
Thursday, November 14, 2002
CAIR-NJ Offers Condolences to Coptic Community - Monday, January 17, 2005
CAIR: American Muslims Condemn Sectarian Mosque Bombing - 07/05/2003
Canadian Muslim scholars reject Bin Laden's calls for jihad - Monday,
October 15, 2001
Canadian Muslims Condemn Recent Khadr Comments That Excuse Terrorism -
Friday, March 05, 2004
Canadian Muslims condemn 9/11 terrorist attacks - Tuesday, September 11,
2001
Canadian Muslims condemn anti-Jewish article - Monday, January 12, 2004
Canadian Muslims condemn church attack in Pakistan - Sunday, March 17, 2002
Canadian Muslims condemn vandalism of synagogues - Friday, April 12, 2002
Muslims Condemn Philippines Airport Bombing - Tuesday, March 04 2003
Muslims Offer Help for Victims of Terrorist Attacks - 9/11/01
Muslims condemn anti-Jewish article - Wednesday, January 07, 2004
Muslims condemn anti-Semitic article - 11/8/2002
Muslims to hold 9/11 vigil at U.S. Capitol - Thursday, August 28, 2003
Muslims urged to donate for D.C. sniper victims - Wednesday, October 16,
2002
U.S. Imams Say Iraq Hostage-Takers Violate Islamic Beliefs - Friday, October
29, 2004
U.S. Muslim Group Condemns bin Laden Videotape - 09/11/2003
U.S. Muslims Condemn Madrid Bombings - 03/11/2004
U.S. Muslims call for 9/11/02 "Day of Unity and Prayer" - Tuesday, July 23,
2002
US Muslims Condemn Terrorism in Ad Campaign - March 8, 2003
Special: Muslims in the Military
Are American Muslims patriotic? Do they serve their country, or support
America's response to the terrorist attacks? Read these stories to find out
more
Islam Gains Place in U.S. Military As Ranks of Muslims Grow
Islamic Scholars Say U.S. Muslim Soldiers Must Fight for Country
Muslim soldier dies in Iraq
Muslims In Military: Arab-American proudly serves U.S.
Muslims in the U.S. Military are As Loyal As Any, Chaplain Says
Ramadan a Sacred Time for U.S. Muslim Troops
UK Muslims Must Obey UK Law, says Professor Muhammad Abdel Haleem
Plus: American Muslim Armed Forces and Veterans
Also see My Condemnation of the September 11 Terrorist Attacks, Some Quranic
Verses on Jihad, and What Islam Really Says about Killing the Innocent.
Post by j***@hotmail.comJR
http://shieldofachilles.blogspot.com