The Paper Bag Lie

[claviger]

The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

[W***@aol.com]

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

BWF told him to go ahead as Oz waited while BWF played around with his
car. He was in no hurry.

[Bud]

Post by W***@aol.com

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

BWF told him to go ahead as Oz waited while BWF played around with his
car. He was in no hurry.

Where did you get that BWF told Oswald to go ahead? I only see
Frazier saying that as soon as he cut the engine and got out Oswald
turned and headed into work.

[claviger]

Post by W***@aol.com

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

BWF told him to go ahead as Oz waited while BWF played around with his
car. He was in no hurry.

Buell Wesley Frazier
Affadavit, November 22, 1963
I parked the car and sit there awhile and run the motor to charge the
battery, and while I was doing that, Lee got out and opened the back
door and got the package out of the back seat and walked behind the
car, then I got out of the car and started walking toward the building
where I work. I noticed that Lee had the package in his right hand
under his arm, and the package was straight up and down, and he had
his arm down, and you could not see much of the package. When we
started walking, Lee was just a few feet ahead of me, but he kept
waking faster than me, and finally got way ahead of me. I saw him go
in the back door at the Loading Dock of the building that we work in,
and he still had the package under his arm. I did not see him anymore
for about 30 minutes, and then we were both working. Lee did not carry
his lunch today. He told me this morning he was going to buy his lunch
today.



Warren Commission Testimony
Mr. FRAZIER - He got out of the car and he was wearing the jacket that
has the big sleeves in them and he put the package that he had, you
know, that he told me was curtain rods up under his arm, you know, and
so he walked down behind the car and standing over there at the end of
the cyclone fence waiting for me to get out of the car, and so quick
as I cut the engine off and started out of the car, shut the door just
as I was starting out just like
getting out of the car, he started walking off and so I followed him
in.
So, eventually there he kept getting a little further ahead of me and
I noticed we had plenty of time to get there because it is not too far
from the Depository and usually I walk around and watch them switching
the trains because you have to watch where you are going if you have
to cross the tracks.
One day you go across one track and maybe there would be some cars
sitting there and there would be another diesel coming there, so you
have to watch when you cross the tracks, I just walked along and I
just like to watch them switch the cars, so eventually he kept getting
a little further ahead of me and by that time we got down there pretty
close to the Depository Building there, I say, he would be as much as,
I would say, roughly 50 feet in front of me but I didn't try to catch
up with him because I knew I had plenty of time so I just took my time
walking up there.
Mr. BALL - Did you usually walk up there together.
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; we did.
Mr. BALL - Is this the first time that he had ever walked ahead of
you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; he did.

[W***@aol.com]

Post by claviger

Post by W***@aol.com

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

BWF told him to go ahead as Oz waited while BWF played around with his
car. He was in no hurry.

Buell Wesley Frazier
Affadavit, November 22, 1963
I parked the car and sit there awhile and run the motor to charge the
battery, and while I was doing that, Lee got out and opened the back
door and got the package out of the back seat and walked behind the
car, then I got out of the car and started walking toward the building
where I work. I noticed that Lee had the package in his right hand
under his arm, and the package was straight up and down, and he had
his arm down, and you could not see much of the package. When we
started walking, Lee was just a few feet ahead of me, but he kept
waking faster than me, and finally got way ahead of me. I saw him go
in the back door at the Loading Dock of the building that we work in,
and he still had the package under his arm. I did not see him anymore
for about 30 minutes, and then we were both working. Lee did not carry
his lunch today. He told me this morning he was going to buy his lunch
today.
Warren Commission Testimony
Mr. FRAZIER - He got out of the car and he was wearing the jacket that
has the big sleeves in them and he put the package that he had, you
know, that he told me was curtain rods up under his arm, you know, and
so he walked down behind the car and standing over there at the end of
the cyclone fence waiting for me to get out of the car, and so quick
as I cut the engine off and started out of the car, shut the door just
as I was starting out just like
getting out of the car, he started walking off and so I followed him
in.
So, eventually there he kept getting a little further ahead of me and
I noticed we had plenty of time to get there because it is not too far
from the Depository and usually I walk around and watch them switching
the trains because you have to watch where you are going if you have
to cross the tracks.
One day you go across one track and maybe there would be some cars
sitting there and there would be another diesel coming there, so you
have to watch when you cross the tracks, I just walked along and I
just like to watch them switch the cars, so eventually he kept getting
a little further ahead of me and by that time we got down there pretty
close to the Depository Building there, I say, he would be as much as,
I would say, roughly 50 feet in front of me but I didn't try to catch
up with him because I knew I had plenty of time so I just took my time
walking up there.
Mr. BALL - Did you usually walk up there together.
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; we did.
Mr. BALL - Is this the first time that he had ever walked ahead of
you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; he did.

FROM THE ABOVE

you know, and so he walked down behind the car and standing over there at
the end of the cyclone fence waiting for me to get out of the car,

...STANDING OVER AT THE END OF THE CYCLONE FENCE WAITING FOR ME....

[claviger]

wburgha,

Post by W***@aol.com
FROM THE ABOVE
you know, and so he walked down behind the car and standing over there at
the end of the cyclone fence waiting for me to get out of the car,
...STANDING OVER AT THE END OF THE CYCLONE FENCE WAITING FOR ME....

And as Paul Harvey would say, "here is the rest of the story" :

WHEN WE STARTED WALKING, LEE WAS JUST A FEW FEET AHEAD OF ME, BUT HE
KEPT WALKING FASTER THAN ME, AND FINALLY GOT WAY AHEAD OF ME.

[W***@aol.com]

Post by W***@aol.com

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

BWF told him to go ahead as Oz waited while BWF played around with his
car. He was in no hurry.

From a past post of Barb J>

Posner did provide examples of Oswald acting out of character that
morning...unfortunately, most of the ones I can think of were incorrectly
represented....like Oswald at the window (which John has conceded in the
past) and the arrival at the TSBD...which Frazier's own testimony poo-poos
in that Oswald did not bolt from the car when they arrived at the
TSBD...in fact, Oswald waited several minutes for Frazier while he revved
his engine to charge his battery.

[claviger]

Post by W***@aol.com

Post by W***@aol.com

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

BWF told him to go ahead as Oz waited while BWF played around with his
car. He was in no hurry.

From a past post of Barb J>
Posner did provide examples of Oswald acting out of character that
morning...unfortunately, most of the ones I can think of were incorrectly
represented....like Oswald at the window (which John has conceded in the
past) and the arrival at the TSBD...which Frazier's own testimony poo-poos
in that Oswald did not bolt from the car when they arrived at the
TSBD...in fact, Oswald waited several minutes for Frazier while he revved
his engine to charge his battery.

No one said he bolted from the car. What he did was walk ahead of BWF not
beside him as usual. He tried to catch up but LHO widened the gap and made
it into the building way ahead of him. Obviously LHO was in a hurry to get
into the building with his package that morning.

[W***@aol.com]

Post by claviger

Post by W***@aol.com

Post by W***@aol.com

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

BWF told him to go ahead as Oz waited while BWF played around with his
car. He was in no hurry.

From a past post of Barb J>
Posner did provide examples of Oswald acting out of character that
morning...unfortunately, most of the ones I can think of were incorrectly
represented....like Oswald at the window (which John has conceded in the
past) and the arrival at the TSBD...which Frazier's own testimony poo-poos
in that Oswald did not bolt from the car when they arrived at the
TSBD...in fact, Oswald waited several minutes for Frazier while he revved
his engine to charge his battery.

No one said he bolted from the car. What he did was walk ahead of BWF not
beside him as usual. He tried to catch up but LHO widened the gap and made
it into the building way ahead of him. Obviously LHO was in a hurry to get
into the building with his package that morning.

no he wasn't

[John Blubaugh]

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

Yes, if he said it had curtain rods in the bag that must have meant that
it was really the MC. Another LN fanatic leap of logic that doesn't hold
up. I read all of the LN and CT arguments about the bag years ago. I
thought the LN crowd was full of it then and I still do.

JB

[claviger]

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

Yes, if he said it had curtain rods in the bag that must have meant that
it was really the MC. Another LN fanatic leap of logic that doesn't hold
up. I read all of the LN and CT arguments about the bag years ago. I
thought the LN crowd was full of it then and I still do.

JB,

Why do you think there were curtain rods in the bag? Nothing about his
story checks out. His whole purpose in hitching a ride on Thursday instead
of Friday was to pick up some curtain rods from Ruth Paine. He never
mentioned it to her nor did he take the curtain rods without permission.
Her curtain rods were still wrapped up where she kept them. There was no
need for curtain rods in his rented room and none found at the TSBD.
However, his rifle hidden in a blanket in the garage did end up at the
TSBD. So do you think it possible he disassembled the rifle and put it in
the bag instead of curtain rods? Why did he tell BWF he would not be
coming to visit on Friday too?

[John Blubaugh]

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

Yes, if he said it had curtain rods in the bag that must have meant that
it was really the MC. Another LN fanatic leap of logic that doesn't hold
up. I read all of the LN and CT arguments about the bag years ago. I
thought the LN crowd was full of it then and I still do.

JB,
Why do you think there were curtain rods in the bag? Nothing about his
story checks out. His whole purpose in hitching a ride on Thursday instead
of Friday was to pick up some curtain rods from Ruth Paine. He never
mentioned it to her nor did he take the curtain rods without permission.
Her curtain rods were still wrapped up where she kept them. There was no
need for curtain rods in his rented room and none found at the TSBD.
However, his rifle hidden in a blanket in the garage did end up at the
TSBD. So do you think it possible he disassembled the rifle and put it in
the bag instead of curtain rods? Why did he tell BWF he would not be
coming to visit on Friday too?- Hide quoted text -

Why do you think there was an MC in the bag when the eyewitness both
testified with details that showed the bag was too short to hold the
brokendown MC? So, he is guilty of shooting JFK because he would not be
able to visit the next Friday? Nice logic. How do you know the MC was
still in the blanket when he went to the Paine's home?

JB

[claviger]

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

Yes, if he said it had curtain rods in the bag that must have meant that
it was really the MC. Another LN fanatic leap of logic that doesn't hold
up. I read all of the LN and CT arguments about the bag years ago. I
thought the LN crowd was full of it then and I still do.

JB,
Why do you think there were curtain rods in the bag? Nothing about his
story checks out. His whole purpose in hitching a ride on Thursday instead
of Friday was to pick up some curtain rods from Ruth Paine. He never
mentioned it to her nor did he take the curtain rods without permission.
Her curtain rods were still wrapped up where she kept them. There was no
need for curtain rods in his rented room and none found at the TSBD.
However, his rifle hidden in a blanket in the garage did end up at the
TSBD. So do you think it possible he disassembled the rifle and put it in
the bag instead of curtain rods? Why did he tell BWF he would not be
coming to visit on Friday too?- Hide quoted text -

Why do you think there was an MC in the bag when the eyewitness both
testified with details that showed the bag was too short to hold the
brokendown MC? So, he is guilty of shooting JFK because he would not be
able to visit the next Friday? Nice logic.
How do you know the MC was still in the blanket
when he went to the Paine's home?

All we know is Marina confirms the rifle was wrapped in a blanket on
the floor in the garage. She thought it was still there until the
police picked up the blanket. She did not see him leave with the
package that morning. There was no conversation with him about curtain
rods. Since Ruth Paine only had two curtain rods that close up to 28"
there would be no need for a custom made bag to carry them around. In
fact two curtain rods could easily be carried in a normal grocery
sack. They were lightweight thin metal parts that would not make a
paper bag look heavy enough to almost touch the ground. By contrast
the disassembled metal and wood parts of a rifle would gather at the
bottom of a paper bag and give a heavy appearance wider at the bottom
than the top.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

Yes, if he said it had curtain rods in the bag that must have meant that
it was really the MC. Another LN fanatic leap of logic that doesn't hold
up. I read all of the LN and CT arguments about the bag years ago. I
thought the LN crowd was full of it then and I still do.

JB,
Why do you think there were curtain rods in the bag? Nothing about his
story checks out. His whole purpose in hitching a ride on Thursday instead
of Friday was to pick up some curtain rods from Ruth Paine. He never
mentioned it to her nor did he take the curtain rods without permission.
Her curtain rods were still wrapped up where she kept them. There was no
need for curtain rods in his rented room and none found at the TSBD.
However, his rifle hidden in a blanket in the garage did end up at the
TSBD. So do you think it possible he disassembled the rifle and put it in
the bag instead of curtain rods? Why did he tell BWF he would not be
coming to visit on Friday too?- Hide quoted text -

Why do you think there was an MC in the bag when the eyewitness both
testified with details that showed the bag was too short to hold the
brokendown MC? So, he is guilty of shooting JFK because he would not be
able to visit the next Friday? Nice logic.
How do you know the MC was still in the blanket
when he went to the Paine's home?

All we know is Marina confirms the rifle was wrapped in a blanket on
the floor in the garage. She thought it was still there until the
police picked up the blanket. She did not see him leave with the
package that morning. There was no conversation with him about curtain
rods. Since Ruth Paine only had two curtain rods that close up to 28"
there would be no need for a custom made bag to carry them around. In

Ok, for the moment we'll accept your story as true. But are you trying to
say that Ruth Paine only owned two curtain rods? Or that she only kept two
curtain rods in the garage? Or is your point that she had a lot of curtain
rods, but only two were about 28" long? If so, how long were the other
ones? Maybe 38"?

Post by claviger
fact two curtain rods could easily be carried in a normal grocery
sack. They were lightweight thin metal parts that would not make a
paper bag look heavy enough to almost touch the ground. By contrast
the disassembled metal and wood parts of a rifle would gather at the
bottom of a paper bag and give a heavy appearance wider at the bottom
than the top.

[John Blubaugh]

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

Yes, if he said it had curtain rods in the bag that must have meant that
it was really the MC. Another LN fanatic leap of logic that doesn't hold
up. I read all of the LN and CT arguments about the bag years ago. I
thought the LN crowd was full of it then and I still do.

JB,
Why do you think there were curtain rods in the bag? Nothing about his
story checks out. His whole purpose in hitching a ride on Thursday instead
of Friday was to pick up some curtain rods from Ruth Paine. He never
mentioned it to her nor did he take the curtain rods without permission.
Her curtain rods were still wrapped up where she kept them. There was no
need for curtain rods in his rented room and none found at the TSBD.
However, his rifle hidden in a blanket in the garage did end up at the
TSBD. So do you think it possible he disassembled the rifle and put it in
the bag instead of curtain rods? Why did he tell BWF he would not be
coming to visit on Friday too?- Hide quoted text -

Why do you think there was an MC in the bag when the eyewitness both
testified with details that showed the bag was too short to hold the
brokendown MC? So, he is guilty of shooting JFK because he would not be
able to visit the next Friday? Nice logic.
How do you know the MC was still in the blanket
when he went to the Paine's home?

All we know is Marina confirms the rifle was wrapped in a blanket on
the floor in the garage. She thought it was still there until the
police picked up the blanket.

So, LHO could have sold this weapon and she would not have known about
it. Perhaps it had not been there for a long time.

She did not see him leave with the

Post by claviger
package that morning. There was no conversation with him about curtain
rods. Since Ruth Paine only had two curtain rods that close up to 28"
there would be no need for a custom made bag to carry them around. In
fact two curtain rods could easily be carried in a normal grocery
sack.

It was a custom made bag? It looks pretty crude to me. Perhaps he
didn't have a grocery bag but I am glad that you agree with number of
28" for the length of the bag.


They were lightweight thin metal parts that would not make a

Post by claviger
paper bag look heavy enough to almost touch the ground. By contrast
the disassembled metal and wood parts of a rifle would gather at the
bottom of a paper bag and give a heavy appearance wider at the bottom
than the top.- Hide quoted text -

Who said ti was heavy enough to touch the ground. I guess I missed
that. But you keep forgeting that the damn bag was not long enough to
carry that weapon even broken down.

JB

[claviger]

JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
So, LHO could have sold this weapon and she would not have known about
it. Perhaps it had not been there for a long time.

Any evidence to support this theory? How did the same rifle find its
way into the TSBD? And what was really in the bag since there were no
curtain rods missing from Ruth Paine's house, and none found at the
TSBD?

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
She did not see him leave with the
package that morning. There was no conversation with him about curtain
rods. Since Ruth Paine only had two curtain rods that close up to 28"
there would be no need for a custom made bag to carry them around. In
fact two curtain rods could easily be carried in a normal grocery
sack.

It was a custom made bag? It looks pretty crude to me.

Custom made by LHO. It was crude but sufficient for the job he had in
mind, to hide the rifle and pretend it was curtain rods. Who in their
right mind would custom make a bag to carry two curtain rods, since he
only had two windows?

Post by John Blubaugh
Perhaps he didn't have a grocery bag but I am glad that
you agree with number of 28" for the length of the bag.

Your reading comprehension is a little out of focus today. The 28"
mentioned above is the length of the most common kind of curtain rods
when they are pushed together as far as they will go. They can extend
out to 48" but no one would carry them around like that.

Here is the statement made by Linnie Mae Randle to the FBI
on November 22, 1963 :
____________________________________________________________
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Date 11/23/63

LINNIE MAE RANDLE, 2439 West Fifth Street, Irving, Texas, phone
Blackburn 3-8965, was interviewed at the Dallas Police Department.

RANDLE advised that she is the sister of BUELL WESLEY FRAZIER, who is
employed by the Texas School Book Depository and resides at her
residence, stated that she met LEE HARVEY OSWALD through her brother,
and has known OSWALD and his wife for about six weeks. RANDLE advised
that OSWALD's wife is MARINA OSWALD, who resides at 2515 W. Fifth,
Irving, Texas, and that OSWALD spends the weekends with his wife at
the above mentioned address. Her brother, WESLEY FRAZIER, customarily
drives LEE HARVEY OSWALD to 2515 West Fifth, Irving, Texas, on Friday
night, and takes him back to work on Monday morning. He stated that
OSWALD is also employed at the Texas School Book Depository.

On the night of November 21, 1963, she observed FRAZIER letting LEE
HARVEY OSWALD out of FRAZIER's car at 2515 West Fifth. Subsequently,
she asked FRAZIER why OSWALD was visiting his wife on Thursday
evening, as he usually did not visit her until Friday evening each
week. FRAZIER told her that OSWALD claimed he was visiting his wife
the night of November 21, 1963, because he is fixing up his apartment
and RUTH PAINE, with whom his wife resides at 2515 West Fifth, Irving,
was going to give him some curtain rods.

RANDLE stated that about 7:15 a.m., November 22, 1963, she looked out
of a window of her residence and observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD walking up
her driveway and saw him put a long brown package, approximately 3
feet by 6 inches, in the back seat area of WESLEY FRAZIER's 1954 black
Chevrolet four door automobile. Thereafter, she observed OSWALD walk
to the front, or entrance area, of her residence where he waited for
FRAZIER to come out of the house and give him a ride to work.

RANDLE stated while at the Dallas Police Department on the evening of
November 22, 1963, officers of the Dallas Police Department had
exhibited to her some brown package paper, however she had not been
able to positively identify it as being identical with the above-
mentioned brown package, due to the fact she had only observed the
brown package from her residence window at a distance.

on 11/22/63 at Dallas, Texas File # DL 89-43

by Special Agent JAMES W. BOOKHOUT/cah/tjd

Date dictated 11/23/63
____________________________________________________________

Notice she observed "...Oswald walking up her driveway and saw him put
a long brown package, approximately 3 feet by 6 inches,..."

Post by John Blubaugh
Who said it was heavy enough to touch the ground. I guess I missed
that.

Yes you did. She described the bag as "heavy" and "bulky". Whatever
was in it was wider at the bottom than the top. So the loose parts of
the rifle gathered at the bottom while the barrel extended to the top.

Post by John Blubaugh
But you keep forgeting that the damn bag was not long enough to
carry that weapon even broken down.

And you keep forgetting the bag was 38" long and the longest part of a
brokendown MC is 35". Do the math. That is 3" left over for LHO to
fold over and use for a handle, or maybe he gripped the top of the
barrel as he carried it.

[claviger]

More lies from LHO.
____________________________________________________________
Clay Shaw Testimony

A: He came up to me and asked me could he ride home with me and I told
him sure. I naturally noticed it was not Friday and asked him why, and
he replied he was going home to see his wife to get some curtain rods
which she had bought for him and he was going to put some curtains up
in his apartment.
Q: He said his wife had bought some curtain rods for him?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you take his home that night, the night of November 21?
A: Yes, I did.

Q: When you got into the automobile did you see anything in the
automobile?
A: He was outside the back door and we went to the car together. He
got in the other side and I got in in the regular side the driver gets
in. As I sat down I glanced over my shoulder and saw this package
lying on the back seat. I asked him, I said, "What's that?" He said,
"That's the curtain rods I told you about." I said, "Oh, yes." I
didn't look at the package any more and I didn't think any more about
it.
____________________________________________________________

There is no corroboration from Marina Oswald or Ruth Paine as to this
story. Neither one had any conversation with LHO about curtain rods.
The whole story is silly and an obvious deception by LHO to sneak his
rifle into the TSBD. Only a gullible young teenager like Buell Wesley
Frazier would buy into this patently absurd situation.

[John Blubaugh]

Post by claviger
More lies from LHO.
____________________________________________________________
Clay Shaw Testimony
A: He came up to me and asked me could he ride home with me and I told
him sure. I naturally noticed it was not Friday and asked him why, and
he replied he was going home to see his wife to get some curtain rods
which she had bought for him and he was going to put some curtains up
in his apartment.
Q: He said his wife had bought some curtain rods for him?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you take his home that night, the night of November 21?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: When you got into the automobile did you see anything in the
automobile?
A: He was outside the back door and we went to the car together. He
got in the other side and I got in in the regular side the driver gets
in. As I sat down I glanced over my shoulder and saw this package
lying on the back seat. I asked him, I said, "What's that?" He said,
"That's the curtain rods I told you about." I said, "Oh, yes." I
didn't look at the package any more and I didn't think any more about
it.
____________________________________________________________
There is no corroboration from Marina Oswald or Ruth Paine as to this
story. Neither one had any conversation with LHO about curtain rods.
The whole story is silly and an obvious deception by LHO to sneak his
rifle into the TSBD. Only a gullible young teenager like Buell Wesley
Frazier would buy into this patently absurd situation.

No corroboration from those people does not mean that it didn't happen. He
certainly wasn't carrying a broken down MC so what was in that bag?

JB

[claviger]

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
More lies from LHO.
____________________________________________________________
Clay Shaw Testimony
A: He came up to me and asked me could he ride home with me and I told
him sure. I naturally noticed it was not Friday and asked him why, and
he replied he was going home to see his wife to get some curtain rods
which she had bought for him and he was going to put some curtains up
in his apartment.
Q: He said his wife had bought some curtain rods for him?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you take his home that night, the night of November 21?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: When you got into the automobile did you see anything in the
automobile?
A: He was outside the back door and we went to the car together. He
got in the other side and I got in in the regular side the driver gets
in. As I sat down I glanced over my shoulder and saw this package
lying on the back seat. I asked him, I said, "What's that?" He said,
"That's the curtain rods I told you about." I said, "Oh, yes." I
didn't look at the package any more and I didn't think any more about
it.
____________________________________________________________
There is no corroboration from Marina Oswald or Ruth Paine as to this
story. Neither one had any conversation with LHO about curtain rods.
The whole story is silly and an obvious deception by LHO to sneak his
rifle into the TSBD. Only a gullible young teenager like Buell Wesley
Frazier would buy into this patently absurd situation.

No corroboration from those people does not mean that it didn't happen. He
certainly wasn't carrying a broken down MC so what was in that bag?
JB

JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
No corroboration from those people does not mean that it didn't happen.

They did not corroborate there was any conversation or knowledge about
supplying curtain rods to LHO. In one story he says Ruth Paine would
loan him some and in the other version that Marina would buy him some.
Since Marina didn't have a car how would she do that without Ruth
Paine knowing about it? Are you suggesting Ruth Paine and Marina
Oswald were lying about curtain rods? Why would they lie about that?

Post by John Blubaugh
He certainly wasn't carrying a broken down MC so what was in that bag?

I've asked you that question several times. Whatever was in the bag he
lied about it. Why would he need to lie about it unless it was a
weapon? If not the broken down MC rifle, how and when did he move his
rifle to the 6th floor of the TSBD?

[John Blubaugh]

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
More lies from LHO.
____________________________________________________________
Clay Shaw Testimony
A: He came up to me and asked me could he ride home with me and I told
him sure. I naturally noticed it was not Friday and asked him why, and
he replied he was going home to see his wife to get some curtain rods
which she had bought for him and he was going to put some curtains up
in his apartment.
Q: He said his wife had bought some curtain rods for him?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you take his home that night, the night of November 21?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: When you got into the automobile did you see anything in the
automobile?
A: He was outside the back door and we went to the car together. He
got in the other side and I got in in the regular side the driver gets
in. As I sat down I glanced over my shoulder and saw this package
lying on the back seat. I asked him, I said, "What's that?" He said,
"That's the curtain rods I told you about." I said, "Oh, yes." I
didn't look at the package any more and I didn't think any more about
it.
____________________________________________________________
There is no corroboration from Marina Oswald or Ruth Paine as to this
story. Neither one had any conversation with LHO about curtain rods.
The whole story is silly and an obvious deception by LHO to sneak his
rifle into the TSBD. Only a gullible young teenager like Buell Wesley
Frazier would buy into this patently absurd situation.

No corroboration from those people does not mean that it didn't happen. He
certainly wasn't carrying a broken down MC so what was in that bag?
JB

JB,> No corroboration from those people does not mean that it didn't happen.
They did not corroborate there was any conversation or knowledge about
supplying curtain rods to LHO. In one story he says Ruth Paine would
loan him some and in the other version that Marina would buy him some.
Since Marina didn't have a car how would she do that without Ruth
Paine knowing about it? Are you suggesting Ruth Paine and Marina
Oswald were lying about curtain rods? Why would they lie about that?

No. I don't know if they were even asked about curtain rods. It
doesn't interest me that much. I have other items of interest. I just
don't believe the whole MC was in the package he carried in that day
because of some very good observations by the only two eyewitnesses.

Post by John Blubaugh
He certainly wasn't carrying a broken down MC so what was in that bag?

I've asked you that question several times. Whatever was in the bag he
lied about it. Why would he need to lie about it unless it was a
weapon? If not the broken down MC rifle, how and when did he move his
rifle to the 6th floor of the TSBD?

People like about things all of the time and it doesn't make them
assassins. Perhaps he carried something personal and potentially
embarrassing.

JB

[claviger]

JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
No. I don't know if they were even asked about curtain rods.

They were.

Post by John Blubaugh
It doesn't interest me that much. I have other items of interest. I just
don't believe the whole MC was in the package he carried in that day
because of some very good observations by the only two eyewitnesses.

No, by one eyewitness who was contradicted by another eyewitness. This
requires investigators to seek corroboration of which one was
correct.

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
I've asked you that question several times. Whatever was in the bag he
lied about it. Why would he need to lie about it unless it was a
weapon? If not the broken down MC rifle, how and when did he move his
rifle to the 6th floor of the TSBD?

People like about things all of the time and it doesn't make them
assassins. Perhaps he carried something personal and potentially
embarrassing.

Like a rifle and a homemade paper bag.

Any logical person would ask this question. If someone wanted to bring
a rifle to work in order to shoot at politicians passing by in a
parade, would he take a chance of bringing the rifle by itself and
hope nobody sees it, or would he try to make it less obvious by
putting it into a box, or perhaps a paper bag? If it were possible to
break the rifle down to make it look even less obvious that would be
even better, correct?

Now the would-be assassin can move the weapon into the building
without arousing suspicion. Once he finds a safe hiding place he can
then make the final decision of whether to use it or not. This is what
we would expect from someone who plans to use a location full of
people to commit a murder, would it not? We expect assassins to be
devious and sneaky, or else they would be caught before they could
harm anyone.

[John Blubaugh]

Post by claviger
JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
No. I don't know if they were even asked about curtain rods.

They were.

So what? He may have been lying about curtains rods because it wasn't
anybody's business. He had some off the wall literature. Perhaps that is
what he was carrying but didn't want to explain it. There could be
hundreds of reasons but that doesn't make him the assassin and it doesn't
mean the MC was in that bag that the witness say was just too short.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
It doesn't interest me that much. I have other items of interest. I just
don't believe the whole MC was in the package he carried in that day
because of some very good observations by the only two eyewitnesses.

No, by one eyewitness who was contradicted by another eyewitness. This
requires investigators to seek corroboration of which one was
correct.

No, there were two eyewitnesses who made independent observations and they
agreed on the length of the bag as being 27" long when they testified
under oath. Why do you keep insisting they were lying?

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
I've asked you that question several times. Whatever was in the bag he
lied about it. Why would he need to lie about it unless it was a
weapon? If not the broken down MC rifle, how and when did he move his
rifle to the 6th floor of the TSBD?

People like about things all of the time and it doesn't make them
assassins. Perhaps he carried something personal and potentially
embarrassing.

Like a rifle and a homemade paper bag.

A rifle that must now magically fit in a 27" bag?

Post by claviger
Any logical person would ask this question. If someone wanted to bring
a rifle to work in order to shoot at politicians passing by in a
parade, would he take a chance of bringing the rifle by itself and
hope nobody sees it, or would he try to make it less obvious by
putting it into a box, or perhaps a paper bag? If it were possible to
break the rifle down to make it look even less obvious that would be
even better, correct?

Yes and even less accurate since it should have to be zeroed in again.
Logic is one thing. Bending the truth and ignoring the witnesses who saw
how he carried it and made detailed observations is quite another. An even
smarter scenario would be to get the MC into the building at an earlier
date not on the date you plan to kill the POTUS. Better yet, get someone
else to bring it in and then no one can say that you brought anything into
the building.

Post by claviger
Now the would-be assassin can move the weapon into the building
without arousing suspicion. Once he finds a safe hiding place he can
then make the final decision of whether to use it or not. This is what
we would expect from someone who plans to use a location full of
people to commit a murder, would it not? We expect assassins to be
devious and sneaky, or else they would be caught before they could
harm anyone.

And it helps to have the SS turn their heads the other way and commit
every error under the sun like allowing windows to be open in tall
buildings along the route. But if they were going to do that, then just
about anyone could have killed JFK.

JB

[claviger]

Buell Wesley Frazier as a witness in his own words:

"Well, I will be frank with you, I didn't pay much attention to the
package because like I say before and after he told me that it was
curtain rods and I didn't pay any attention to it, and he never had
lied to me before so I never did have any reason to doubt his word."

"Well, I say, you know like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the
package other than I knew he had it under his arm and I didn't pay too
much attention the way he was walking because I was walking along
there looking at the railroad cars and watching the men on the diesel
switch them cars and I didn't pay too much attention on how he carried
the package at all."

"I noticed that Lee had the package in his right hand under his arm,
and the package was straight up and down, and he had his arm down, and
you could not see much of the package."

"I didn't look at the package any more and I didn't think any more
about it."

“As I sat down I glanced over my shoulder and saw this package lying
on the back seat. I asked him, I said, "What's that?" He said, "That's
the curtain rods I told you about." I said, "Oh, yes." I didn't look
at the package any more and I didn't think any more about it.”

Q: Tell me, how was Lee Harvey Oswald carrying this package you
described as he was walking in front of you?
A: Parallel to his side, up and down. Like you stick it up under your
armpit and the other part cupped in his hand.
Q: Did you determine whether it was in his armpit or were you close
enough to see that?
A: No, sir, I was not close enough to see. I didn't pay attention to
it particularly, but as he was walking along in front of me naturally
I looked in his direction and that is what it appeared to be from what
I saw.

Q: What kind of rifle did you use in the Service?
A: An M14.
Q: Approximately how long was the M14 that you used?
A: I believe the correct length is 30 some odd inches long?
Q: 30 something inches long?
A: Yes.

( The M14 is 44” long )

[mark drenning]

dont mean to stick my nose in someone elses dicussion. but i think you
absolutely hit the nail on the head, when you used the word devious.
oswald, was clearly at least in my humble opinion crazy at the time of
the assassination. not barking at the moon crazy mind you. but slipping
farther into a world of his own. it is amazing how clever crazy people
can be. oswald, could have given wesley any excuse for wanting a ride
home a day early. but his reason CURTAIN RODS. why such a detailed lie
because he had to have an unquestioned. unchallenged reason why he had
a paper wrapped package under his arm as he approached their house that
morning.btw i have a film somewhere around here with an interview with
linnie mae randall where she describes the package as being about two
and a half feet long.according to the add for the rifle from kleins
sporting goods the rifle fully assebled was 36 inches long

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by mark drenning
dont mean to stick my nose in someone elses dicussion. but i think you
absolutely hit the nail on the head, when you used the word devious.
oswald, was clearly at least in my humble opinion crazy at the time of
the assassination. not barking at the moon crazy mind you. but slipping
farther into a world of his own. it is amazing how clever crazy people
can be. oswald, could have given wesley any excuse for wanting a ride
home a day early. but his reason CURTAIN RODS. why such a detailed lie
because he had to have an unquestioned. unchallenged reason why he had
a paper wrapped package under his arm as he approached their house that
morning.btw i have a film somewhere around here with an interview with
linnie mae randall where she describes the package as being about two
and a half feet long.according to the add for the rifle from kleins
sporting goods the rifle fully assebled was 36 inches long

At that point on Thursday afternoon the only reason was he needed a lie
was to make up an excuse for why he needed a ride out to Irving on a
Thursday instead of a Friday. Maybe he was too embarrassed to explain his
problems with Marina.

[Bud]

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
More lies from LHO.
____________________________________________________________
Clay Shaw Testimony
A: He came up to me and asked me could he ride home with me and I told
him sure. I naturally noticed it was not Friday and asked him why, and
he replied he was going home to see his wife to get some curtain rods
which she had bought for him and he was going to put some curtains up
in his apartment.
Q: He said his wife had bought some curtain rods for him?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you take his home that night, the night of November 21?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: When you got into the automobile did you see anything in the
automobile?
A: He was outside the back door and we went to the car together. He
got in the other side and I got in in the regular side the driver gets
in. As I sat down I glanced over my shoulder and saw this package
lying on the back seat. I asked him, I said, "What's that?" He said,
"That's the curtain rods I told you about." I said, "Oh, yes." I
didn't look at the package any more and I didn't think any more about
it.
____________________________________________________________
There is no corroboration from Marina Oswald or Ruth Paine as to this
story. Neither one had any conversation with LHO about curtain rods.
The whole story is silly and an obvious deception by LHO to sneak his
rifle into the TSBD. Only a gullible young teenager like Buell Wesley
Frazier would buy into this patently absurd situation.

No corroboration from those people does not mean that it didn't happen. He
certainly wasn't carrying a broken down MC so what was in that bag?
JB

JB,> No corroboration from those people does not mean that it didn't happen.
They did not corroborate there was any conversation or knowledge about
supplying curtain rods to LHO. In one story he says Ruth Paine would
loan him some and in the other version that Marina would buy him some.
Since Marina didn't have a car how would she do that without Ruth
Paine knowing about it? Are you suggesting Ruth Paine and Marina
Oswald were lying about curtain rods? Why would they lie about that?

No. I don't know if they were even asked about curtain rods. It
doesn't interest me that much. I have other items of interest. I just
don't believe the whole MC was in the package he carried in that day
because of some very good observations by the only two eyewitnesses.

"The observations are good because they match/they match because
their observations were good" circular reasoning.

Two people see a guy, and they both guess his weight to be around
200 pounds. Does this establish his weight as 200 pounds?

Observing just doesn`t provide the hard data you want to pretend it
does.

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by John Blubaugh
He certainly wasn't carrying a broken down MC so what was in that bag?

I've asked you that question several times. Whatever was in the bag he
lied about it. Why would he need to lie about it unless it was a
weapon? If not the broken down MC rifle, how and when did he move his
rifle to the 6th floor of the TSBD?

People like about things all of the time and it doesn't make them
assassins.

Yah, thats how real investigations operate, they try to make
excuses when they catch the prime suspect lying to them about
pertinent information.

Post by John Blubaugh
Perhaps he carried something personal and potentially
embarrassing.

<snicker> Right, it wasn`t a rifle, it was a blow up sex doll. Thats
what Oswald was doing when the motorcade passed.

Post by John Blubaugh
JB

[John Blubaugh]

JB,> So, LHO could have sold this weapon and she would not have known about

Post by John Blubaugh
it. Perhaps it had not been there for a long time.

Any evidence to support this theory? How did the same rifle find its
way into the TSBD? And what was really in the bag since there were no
curtain rods missing from Ruth Paine's house, and none found at the
TSBD?

If LHO was a Patsy as he claimed to be and I certainly believe he was,
then whoever set him up and actually did the shooting would be sure to
have that MC in the TSBD wouldn't they? How better than to just purchase
it from him and stash it near the sniper's nest. Why do curtain rods have
to be missing? Perhaps they were new curtain rods? You are pulling on
straws.

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
She did not see him leave with the
package that morning. There was no conversation with him about curtain
rods. Since Ruth Paine only had two curtain rods that close up to 28"
there would be no need for a custom made bag to carry them around. In
fact two curtain rods could easily be carried in a normal grocery
sack.

It was a custom made bag? It looks pretty crude to me.

Custom made by LHO. It was crude but sufficient for the job he had in
mind, to hide the rifle and pretend it was curtain rods. Who in their
right mind would custom make a bag to carry two curtain rods, since he
only had two windows?

I don't know but the bag that was found certainly is not the bag he was
seen carrying into the TSBD. Perhaps it did hold the rifle but was brought
in my some else. And, before you get a chance to say it, the fingerprints
on the bag could mean this is they way he delievered the MC to whoever
purchsed it.

Post by John Blubaugh
Perhaps he didn't have a grocery bag but I am glad that
you agree with number of 28" for the length of the bag.

Your reading comprehension is a little out of focus today. The 28"
mentioned above is the length of the most common kind of curtain rods
when they are pushed together as far as they will go. They can extend
out to 48" but no one would carry them around like that.

Saying no one is taking up a lot of ground. LHO carried something that
day and it sure was not the MC.

Here is the statement made by Linnie Mae Randle to the FBI
____________________________________________________________
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
Date 11/23/63
LINNIE MAE RANDLE, 2439 West Fifth Street, Irving, Texas, phone
Blackburn 3-8965, was interviewed at the Dallas Police Department.
RANDLE advised that she is the sister of BUELL WESLEY FRAZIER, who is
employed by the Texas School Book Depository and resides at her
residence, stated that she met LEE HARVEY OSWALD through her brother,
and has known OSWALD and his wife for about six weeks. RANDLE advised
that OSWALD's wife is MARINA OSWALD, who resides at 2515 W. Fifth,
Irving, Texas, and that OSWALD spends the weekends with his wife at
the above mentioned address. Her brother, WESLEY FRAZIER, customarily
drives LEE HARVEY OSWALD to 2515 West Fifth, Irving, Texas, on Friday
night, and takes him back to work on Monday morning. He stated that
OSWALD is also employed at the Texas School Book Depository.
On the night of November 21, 1963, she observed FRAZIER letting LEE
HARVEY OSWALD out of FRAZIER's car at 2515 West Fifth. Subsequently,
she asked FRAZIER why OSWALD was visiting his wife on Thursday
evening, as he usually did not visit her until Friday evening each
week. FRAZIER told her that OSWALD claimed he was visiting his wife
the night of November 21, 1963, because he is fixing up his apartment
and RUTH PAINE, with whom his wife resides at 2515 West Fifth, Irving,
was going to give him some curtain rods.
RANDLE stated that about 7:15 a.m., November 22, 1963, she looked out
of a window of her residence and observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD walking up
her driveway and saw him put a long brown package, approximately 3
feet by 6 inches, in the back seat area of WESLEY FRAZIER's 1954 black
Chevrolet four door automobile. Thereafter, she observed OSWALD walk
to the front, or entrance area, of her residence where he waited for
FRAZIER to come out of the house and give him a ride to work.
RANDLE stated while at the Dallas Police Department on the evening of
November 22, 1963, officers of the Dallas Police Department had
exhibited to her some brown package paper, however she had not been
able to positively identify it as being identical with the above-
mentioned brown package, due to the fact she had only observed the
brown package from her residence window at a distance.

What does this have to do with her official statement under oath? This
one doesn't mean anything.

on 11/22/63 at Dallas, Texas File # DL 89-43
by Special Agent JAMES W. BOOKHOUT/cah/tjd
Date dictated 11/23/63
____________________________________________________________
Notice she observed "...Oswald walking up her driveway and saw him put
a long brown package, approximately 3 feet by 6 inches,..."

Post by John Blubaugh
Who said it was heavy enough to touch the ground. I guess I missed
that.

Yes you did. She described the bag as "heavy" and "bulky". Whatever
was in it was wider at the bottom than the top. So the loose parts of
the rifle gathered at the bottom while the barrel extended to the top.

Why didn't you mention that she said he carried it from the top and it
almost dragged the ground? Try doing that with a 36" package. I can do
it with a 30" package but no longer. LHO was three inches shorter than
me so that would make it, what, 27" long?

Post by John Blubaugh
But you keep forgeting that the damn bag was not long enough to
carry that weapon even broken down.

And you keep forgetting the bag was 38" long and the longest part of a
brokendown MC is 35". Do the math. That is 3" left over for LHO to
fold over and use for a handle, or maybe he gripped the top of the
barrel as he carried it.

Then it had to drag the ground. It didn't so it was shorter like I
said above. 27" should be about right.

JB

[claviger]

JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
If LHO was a Patsy as he claimed to be and I certainly believe he was,
then whoever set him up and actually did the shooting would be sure to
have that MC in the TSBD wouldn't they?
How better than to just purchase it from him and stash it near the
sniper's nest. Why do curtain rods have to be missing? Perhaps they
were new curtain rods? You are pulling on straws.

Yes, it would be diabolically clever to buy his rifle then sneak into
the TSBD, murder the President, and leave the rifle as evidence. If
that did happen can you tell us if the scope was off or not that day?
That is a hot topic of discussion on another thread.

Can you explain how this scenario works? In the first place how did
LHO get his rifle out of the Paine’s garage without Ruth or Marina
knowing about it? Who did he sell it to? How did they know he had a
rifle for sale?
When did they sneak into the TSBD and how would they know what floor
he was assigned to that day? How did they get away? Where was LHO when
all this was going on? And if he had no clue he was being framed why
did he run away?

Post by John Blubaugh
I don't know but the bag that was found certainly is not the bag he was
seen carrying into the TSBD. Perhaps it did hold the rifle but was brought
in my some else. And, before you get a chance to say it, the fingerprints
on the bag could mean this is they way he delievered the MC to whoever
purchsed it.

OK, he made the bag to sell it and they later brought the rifle in the
same bag to the TSBD. Again, how did this stealth sniper move himself
and the bag into the TSBD, shoot the President and then escape? Sounds
like a job for a ninja to me.

Post by John Blubaugh
Saying no one is taking up a lot of ground. LHO carried something that
day and it sure was not the MC.

So what was in the bag and why lie about it?

Post by John Blubaugh
Why didn't you mention that she said he carried it from the top and it
almost dragged the ground? Try doing that with a 36" package. I can do
it with a 30" package but no longer. LHO was three inches shorter than
me so that would make it, what, 27" long?

I’m 6ft tall. The outside measurement of my arm from shoulder to
knuckle is 28” and inside measurement from armpit to knuckle is 21”.
There is no way I could carry a 27” package cupped in my hand and fit
into my armpit. There is no way LHO did that either, unless he was
built like an orangutang. The longest part of a disassembled MC is the
stock. He either carried it like marching with a rifle, in which case
about 5” of the bag would show above his right shoulder. More likely
he carried it in his right hand but across his chest and was steadied
with his left hand so that the top of the bag was blocked from view by
the left shoulder. This means blocked from view from behind, which is
why he made the effort to stay ahead of BWF walking into the building.

It is possible that LHO somehow moved the stock into the TSBD another
time and brought the metal parts in a bag later on the morning of the
assassination. I don’t know how he could do that. If he could secretly
move the stock then why not the whole rifle? What I believe happened
is he took a chance on BWF’s youthful naivete and sneaked the whole
bag of rifle parts into the TSBD.

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
But you keep forgeting that the damn bag was not long enough to
carry that weapon even broken down.

And you keep forgetting the bag was 38" long and the longest part
of a brokendown MC is 35". Do the math. That is 3" left over for LHO
to fold over and use for a handle, or maybe he gripped the top of the
barrel as he carried it.

Then it had to drag the ground. It didn't so it was shorter like I
said above. 27" should be about right.

If LHO carried the bag by the top in his right hand, and his arm was
in the L shape position then he could easily have carried the bag
across the street and it would almost be touching the ground. That
means his hand is about waist high and that would be the natural way
to carry a long bag.

There is one more issue to consider. Maybe BWF was lying to protect
his friend, because he wanted to believe LHO was innocent.

[John Blubaugh]

Post by claviger
JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
If LHO was a Patsy as he claimed to be and I certainly believe he was,
then whoever set him up and actually did the shooting would be sure to
have that MC in the TSBD wouldn't they?
How better than to just purchase it from him and stash it near the
sniper's nest. Why do curtain rods have to be missing? Perhaps they
were new curtain rods? You are pulling on straws.

Yes, it would be diabolically clever to buy his rifle then sneak into
the TSBD, murder the President, and leave the rifle as evidence. If
that did happen can you tell us if the scope was off or not that day?
That is a hot topic of discussion on another thread.

I have no idea but if the MC was disassembled as many of you believe and
the scope was defective and he was using the metal sights, why not remove
it? This isn't my area of interest anyway. The MC got there some how and I
think it probably came complete in the bag that was found. What I do not
believe is that this is the same bag LHO carried in the building that day.
That only means it came in another way on another day unless you are a WCR
defender who MUST believe LHO carried it in that day.

Post by claviger
Can you explain how this scenario works? In the first place how did
LHO get his rifle out of the Paine’s garage without Ruth or Marina
knowing about it? Who did he sell it to? How did they know he had a
rifle for sale?

Apparently, according to all of you LNs, he DID get the MC out of the
garage without Ruth or Marina knowing about it. If he sold it, he probably
sold it to someone in the group planning to kill the POTUS. You can sell
nearly anything if you just mention to the right people in the right
place. Weren't people buying and selling rifles in the TSBD the previous
week or two?

Post by claviger
When did they sneak into the TSBD and how would they know what floor
he was assigned to that day? How did they get away? Where was LHO when
all this was going on? And if he had no clue he was being framed why
did he run away?

Not that I think it matters because they knew he handled the boxes so his
fingerprints would be on them but did he work on different floors on
different days? What did it matter if he was working on another floor that
day as long as the area was empty at the right time. I didn't say he
wasn't in on the whole thing but he probably wasn't a shooter. Perhaps he
wasn't even expecting shots to be fired from his building but when they
were, he knew had been lied to and left the scene. You ask questions that
are impossible to answer. Perhaps he just stepped outside and they didn't
let anyone else back in and he just went home.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
I don't know but the bag that was found certainly is not the bag he was
seen carrying into the TSBD. Perhaps it did hold the rifle but was brought
in my some else. And, before you get a chance to say it, the fingerprints
on the bag could mean this is they way he delievered the MC to whoever
purchsed it.

OK, he made the bag to sell it and they later brought the rifle in the
same bag to the TSBD. Again, how did this stealth sniper move himself
and the bag into the TSBD, shoot the President and then escape? Sounds
like a job for a ninja to me.

It wasn't so difficult. LHO was in the lunch room and there was
pandemonium and disorganization. They didn't seal the building and he
just walked away. I'm not convinced that is what happened but it could
have.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
Saying no one is taking up a lot of ground. LHO carried something that
day and it sure was not the MC.

So what was in the bag and why lie about it?

People like all the time about mundane things. It doesn't make them
assassins.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
Why didn't you mention that she said he carried it from the top and it
almost dragged the ground? Try doing that with a 36" package. I can do
it with a 30" package but no longer. LHO was three inches shorter than
me so that would make it, what, 27" long?

I’m 6ft tall. The outside measurement of my arm from shoulder to
knuckle is 28” and inside measurement from armpit to knuckle is 21”.
There is no way I could carry a 27” package cupped in my hand and fit
into my armpit. There is no way LHO did that either, unless he was
built like an orangutang. The longest part of a disassembled MC is the
stock. He either carried it like marching with a rifle, in which case
about 5” of the bag would show above his right shoulder. More likely
he carried it in his right hand but across his chest and was steadied
with his left hand so that the top of the bag was blocked from view by
the left shoulder. This means blocked from view from behind, which is
why he made the effort to stay ahead of BWF walking into the building.

But it didn't show above his shoulder and everything the witnesses say
make that bag too short. I can almost carry the 27" bag that way but
not quite. I wondered a while earlier about LHOs sleeve length. Some
folks have long arms.

Post by claviger
It is possible that LHO somehow moved the stock into the TSBD another
time and brought the metal parts in a bag later on the morning of the
assassination. I don’t know how he could do that. If he could secretly
move the stock then why not the whole rifle? What I believe happened
is he took a chance on BWF’s youthful naivete and sneaked the whole
bag of rifle parts into the TSBD.

I am sure you do but your alternative theory fits their testimony
better and it isn't outrageous. That could very well have happened. I
believe some folks believe he brought it in covered by a coat but that
is not my area of interest.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
But you keep forgeting that the damn bag was not long enough to
carry that weapon even broken down.

And you keep forgetting the bag was 38" long and the longest part
of a brokendown MC is 35". Do the math. That is 3" left over for LHO
to fold over and use for a handle, or maybe he gripped the top of the
barrel as he carried it.

Then it had to drag the ground. It didn't so it was shorter like I
said above. 27" should be about right.

If LHO carried the bag by the top in his right hand, and his arm was
in the L shape position then he could easily have carried the bag
across the street and it would almost be touching the ground. That
means his hand is about waist high and that would be the natural way
to carry a long bag.

Why would anyone carry something in a painful position like that and why
didn't the witness note that? Hey, he could have held it straight out at
his shoulder and he could have carried a four foot bag. But his arm would
have hurt plenty. You are stretching here. I did like your thought about
bringing the MC in on two different occasions. That does seem possible to
me and it matches the testimony of the witnesses.

Post by claviger
There is one more issue to consider. Maybe BWF was lying to protect
his friend, because he wanted to believe LHO was innocent.

I doubt they were that close but anything is possible. He also got the
sister to lie too?

JB

[claviger]

JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
I have no idea but if the MC was disassembled as many of you believe and
the scope was defective and he was using the metal sights, why not remove
it? This isn't my area of interest anyway. The MC got there some how and I
think it probably came complete in the bag that was found. What I do not
believe is that this is the same bag LHO carried in the building that day.

Do you believe there were two paper bags found at the crime scene?

Post by John Blubaugh
That only means it came in another way on another day unless you are a WCR
defender who MUST believe LHO carried it in that day.

That would be the only logical conclusion after considering all the
evidence.

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
Can you explain how this scenario works? In the first place how did
LHO get his rifle out of the Paine’s garage without Ruth or Marina
knowing about it? Who did he sell it to? How did they know he had a
rifle for sale?

Apparently, according to all of you LNs, he DID get the MC out of the
garage without Ruth or Marina knowing about it.

Yes that is true, and you make a good point. This proves LHO was
sneaky and devious enough to move a strange looking package from the
Paine house to the car across the street, and then to the parking lot
of the TSBD, and from the parking space across the parking area, up
the stairs to 6th floor to a hiding place with no one seeing him,
except BWF. That is a pretty good feat that shows cleverness and
intent. So it’s possible he could have had a potential buyer drive by
the Paine house in the middle of the night to look at the rifle and
make an offer on it. It would almost have to be that way because BWF
testified this was the only time LHO ever brought a large package to
work.

Post by John Blubaugh
If he sold it, he probably
sold it to someone in the group planning to kill the POTUS. You can sell
nearly anything if you just mention to the right people in the right
place. Weren't people buying and selling rifles in the TSBD the previous
week or two?

Not sure about that. One fellow bought a rifle and showed it to Mr.
Truly before taking it home. Since people were casual about bringing
rifles to work in those days one wonders why LHO tried so hard to hide
his package. Perhaps he realized there was a slim chance of getting
away after his evil deed, but that is better than none, so its worth
the effort to hide the rifle to give him some extra time to slip away
in the confusion.

Post by John Blubaugh
Not that I think it matters because they knew he handled the boxes so his
fingerprints would be on them but did he work on different floors on
different days? What did it matter if he was working on another floor that
day as long as the area was empty at the right time.

Correct.

Post by John Blubaugh
I didn't say he
wasn't in on the whole thing but he probably wasn't a shooter. Perhaps he
wasn't even expecting shots to be fired from his building but when they
were, he knew had been lied to and left the scene.

Lied to by whom?

Post by John Blubaugh
You ask questions that are impossible to answer.
Perhaps he just stepped outside and they didn't
let anyone else back in and he just went home.

He was confronted by a police officer in the lunchroom, but Truly’s
identification allowed him a second chance to escape.

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
OK, he made the bag to sell it and they later brought the rifle in the
same bag to the TSBD. Again, how did this stealth sniper move himself
and the bag into the TSBD, shoot the President and then escape? Sounds
like a job for a ninja to me.

It wasn't so difficult. LHO was in the lunch room and there was
pandemonium and disorganization. They didn't seal the building and he
just walked away. I'm not convinced that is what happened but it could
have.

I think that is what happened. He stayed calm and even pointed out
where the phones were to reporter on the way out of the lobby. How do
you think he left the building?

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
Saying no one is taking up a lot of ground. LHO carried something that
day and it sure was not the MC.

So what was in the bag and why lie about it?

People like all the time about mundane things. It doesn't make them
assassins.

Do assassins always tell the truth or do you think they tell lies too?

Post by John Blubaugh
But it didn't show above his shoulder and everything the witnesses say
make that bag too short.

Everything one witness said.

Post by John Blubaugh
I can almost carry the 27" bag that way but not quite. I wondered a while
earlier about LHOs sleeve length. Some folks have long arms.

Not everyone is built the same, but LHO would need to have unusually
long arms and hands to carry a 27” long package that way. One problem
with BWF’s description is his position while observing LHO carry the
bag into the building. He only saw LHO from behind so he can’t say for
sure LHO had it in his armpit or not.

Post by John Blubaugh
Why would anyone carry something in a painful position like that and why
didn't the witness note that?

That is not a painful position. It’s the same position of doing curls
with barbells.

Post by John Blubaugh
Hey, he could have held it straight out at his shoulder and he could
have carried a four foot bag. But his arm would have hurt plenty.
You are stretching here. I did like your thought about bringing the MC
in on two different occasions. That does seem possible to me and it
matches the testimony of the witnesses.

I try to consider all possibile solutions to fit the evidence. If the
package was indeed full of just the metal parts of the rifle, how did
LHO get the wooden stock into the TSBD? BWF never saw him carry
anything else to work and he was LHO’s only known means of
transportation to and from Irving. As was proved in the Clay Shaw
trial BWF was not a good judge of long objects, so it would be more
logical he simply misjudged the length of the package that day since
he never got a really good look at it compared to LHO's anatomy. His
sister had the best view of LHO walking toward her vantage point from
across the street.

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
There is one more issue to consider. Maybe BWF was lying to protect
his friend, because he wanted to believe LHO was innocent.

I doubt they were that close but anything is possible.

Frazier: Oswald not capable of killing Kennedy

Oswald and the “package”

"ON TRIAL: LEE HARVEY OSWALD" (PART 3)(WITNESS: BUELL WESLEY FRAZIER)

Post by John Blubaugh
He also got the sister to lie too?

Not to lie, but convinced her she was wrong.

Her testimony has now been tainted by a family member’s influence.
Keep in mind it is standard procedure to separate witnesses to hear
what they have to say before they can influence each other, or
friends, relatives, neighbors, co-workers, newspapers, magazines,
reporters, TV, radio, etc. have a chance to impact witness testimony.

In this case it would be possible for Ruth Paine or Marina Oswald to
walk across the street and plead with Linnie Mae Randle to change her
description of the package to help LHO out of a jam. As a wife and
mother she may feel sorry for Marina and go along with her brother’s
description. We have no indication that took place, but it could
happen when people live that close together who were friends and co-
workers.

[tomnln]

SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/testimony.htm



"claviger" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f39d15a1-f8ce-48e9-8f05-***@c33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
I have no idea but if the MC was disassembled as many of you believe and
the scope was defective and he was using the metal sights, why not remove
it? This isn't my area of interest anyway. The MC got there some how and I
think it probably came complete in the bag that was found. What I do not
believe is that this is the same bag LHO carried in the building that day.

Do you believe there were two paper bags found at the crime scene?

Post by John Blubaugh
That only means it came in another way on another day unless you are a WCR
defender who MUST believe LHO carried it in that day.

That would be the only logical conclusion after considering all the
evidence.

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
Can you explain how this scenario works? In the first place how did
LHO get his rifle out of the Paine’s garage without Ruth or Marina
knowing about it? Who did he sell it to? How did they know he had a
rifle for sale?

Apparently, according to all of you LNs, he DID get the MC out of the
garage without Ruth or Marina knowing about it.

Yes that is true, and you make a good point. This proves LHO was
sneaky and devious enough to move a strange looking package from the
Paine house to the car across the street, and then to the parking lot
of the TSBD, and from the parking space across the parking area, up
the stairs to 6th floor to a hiding place with no one seeing him,
except BWF. That is a pretty good feat that shows cleverness and
intent. So it’s possible he could have had a potential buyer drive by
the Paine house in the middle of the night to look at the rifle and
make an offer on it. It would almost have to be that way because BWF
testified this was the only time LHO ever brought a large package to
work.

Post by John Blubaugh
If he sold it, he probably
sold it to someone in the group planning to kill the POTUS. You can sell
nearly anything if you just mention to the right people in the right
place. Weren't people buying and selling rifles in the TSBD the previous
week or two?

Not sure about that. One fellow bought a rifle and showed it to Mr.
Truly before taking it home. Since people were casual about bringing
rifles to work in those days one wonders why LHO tried so hard to hide
his package. Perhaps he realized there was a slim chance of getting
away after his evil deed, but that is better than none, so its worth
the effort to hide the rifle to give him some extra time to slip away
in the confusion.

Post by John Blubaugh
Not that I think it matters because they knew he handled the boxes so his
fingerprints would be on them but did he work on different floors on
different days? What did it matter if he was working on another floor that
day as long as the area was empty at the right time.

Correct.

Post by John Blubaugh
I didn't say he
wasn't in on the whole thing but he probably wasn't a shooter. Perhaps he
wasn't even expecting shots to be fired from his building but when they
were, he knew had been lied to and left the scene.

Lied to by whom?

Post by John Blubaugh
You ask questions that are impossible to answer.
Perhaps he just stepped outside and they didn't
let anyone else back in and he just went home.

He was confronted by a police officer in the lunchroom, but Truly’s
identification allowed him a second chance to escape.

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
OK, he made the bag to sell it and they later brought the rifle in the
same bag to the TSBD. Again, how did this stealth sniper move himself
and the bag into the TSBD, shoot the President and then escape? Sounds
like a job for a ninja to me.

It wasn't so difficult. LHO was in the lunch room and there was
pandemonium and disorganization. They didn't seal the building and he
just walked away. I'm not convinced that is what happened but it could
have.

I think that is what happened. He stayed calm and even pointed out
where the phones were to reporter on the way out of the lobby. How do
you think he left the building?

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
Saying no one is taking up a lot of ground. LHO carried something that
day and it sure was not the MC.

So what was in the bag and why lie about it?

People like all the time about mundane things. It doesn't make them
assassins.

Do assassins always tell the truth or do you think they tell lies too?

Post by John Blubaugh
But it didn't show above his shoulder and everything the witnesses say
make that bag too short.

Everything one witness said.

Post by John Blubaugh
I can almost carry the 27" bag that way but not quite. I wondered a while
earlier about LHOs sleeve length. Some folks have long arms.

Not everyone is built the same, but LHO would need to have unusually
long arms and hands to carry a 27” long package that way. One problem
with BWF’s description is his position while observing LHO carry the
bag into the building. He only saw LHO from behind so he can’t say for
sure LHO had it in his armpit or not.

Post by John Blubaugh
Why would anyone carry something in a painful position like that and why
didn't the witness note that?

That is not a painful position. It’s the same position of doing curls
with barbells.

Post by John Blubaugh
Hey, he could have held it straight out at his shoulder and he could
have carried a four foot bag. But his arm would have hurt plenty.
You are stretching here. I did like your thought about bringing the MC
in on two different occasions. That does seem possible to me and it
matches the testimony of the witnesses.

I try to consider all possibile solutions to fit the evidence. If the
package was indeed full of just the metal parts of the rifle, how did
LHO get the wooden stock into the TSBD? BWF never saw him carry
anything else to work and he was LHO’s only known means of
transportation to and from Irving. As was proved in the Clay Shaw
trial BWF was not a good judge of long objects, so it would be more
logical he simply misjudged the length of the package that day since
he never got a really good look at it compared to LHO's anatomy. His
sister had the best view of LHO walking toward her vantage point from
across the street.

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
There is one more issue to consider. Maybe BWF was lying to protect
his friend, because he wanted to believe LHO was innocent.

I doubt they were that close but anything is possible.

Frazier: Oswald not capable of killing Kennedy
http://youtu.be/UbHPK7vWxqI
Oswald and the “package”
http://youtu.be/iDWaOjFqgHk
"ON TRIAL: LEE HARVEY OSWALD" (PART 3)(WITNESS: BUELL WESLEY FRAZIER)
http://youtu.be/tzw3RlNgR1s

Post by John Blubaugh
He also got the sister to lie too?

Not to lie, but convinced her she was wrong.

Her testimony has now been tainted by a family member’s influence.
Keep in mind it is standard procedure to separate witnesses to hear
what they have to say before they can influence each other, or
friends, relatives, neighbors, co-workers, newspapers, magazines,
reporters, TV, radio, etc. have a chance to impact witness testimony.

In this case it would be possible for Ruth Paine or Marina Oswald to
walk across the street and plead with Linnie Mae Randle to change her
description of the package to help LHO out of a jam. As a wife and
mother she may feel sorry for Marina and go along with her brother’s
description. We have no indication that took place, but it could
happen when people live that close together who were friends and co-
workers.

[John Blubaugh]

Post by claviger
JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
I have no idea but if the MC was disassembled as many of you believe and
the scope was defective and he was using the metal sights, why not remove
it? This isn't my area of interest anyway. The MC got there some how and I
think it probably came complete in the bag that was found. What I do not
believe is that this is the same bag LHO carried in the building that day.

Do you believe there were two paper bags found at the crime scene?

No, but just because something was not found does not mean it was not
there at some point. They didn't find LHO's jacket until quite a lot
later.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
That only means it came in another way on another day unless you are a WCR
defender who MUST believe LHO carried it in that day.

That would be the only logical conclusion after considering all the
evidence.

It is anything but logical when you have eyewitnesses who testify with
such detailed observations that it was impossible.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
Can you explain how this scenario works? In the first place how did
LHO get his rifle out of the Paine’s garage without Ruth or Marina
knowing about it? Who did he sell it to? How did they know he had a
rifle for sale?

Apparently, according to all of you LNs, he DID get the MC out of the
garage without Ruth or Marina knowing about it.

Yes that is true, and you make a good point. This proves LHO was
sneaky and devious enough to move a strange looking package from the
Paine house to the car across the street, and then to the parking lot
of the TSBD, and from the parking space across the parking area, up
the stairs to 6th floor to a hiding place with no one seeing him,
except BWF. That is a pretty good feat that shows cleverness and
intent. So it’s possible he could have had a potential buyer drive by
the Paine house in the middle of the night to look at the rifle and
make an offer on it. It would almost have to be that way because BWF
testified this was the only time LHO ever brought a large package to
work.

He wasn't too devious, two people saw him do that and he discussed it with
one of them. LHO was plenty clever enough. He was most likely a CIA asset
after all.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
If he sold it, he probably
sold it to someone in the group planning to kill the POTUS. You can sell
nearly anything if you just mention to the right people in the right
place. Weren't people buying and selling rifles in the TSBD the previous
week or two?

Not sure about that. One fellow bought a rifle and showed it to Mr.
Truly before taking it home. Since people were casual about bringing
rifles to work in those days one wonders why LHO tried so hard to hide
his package. Perhaps he realized there was a slim chance of getting
away after his evil deed, but that is better than none, so its worth
the effort to hide the rifle to give him some extra time to slip away
in the confusion.

And perhaps he didn't commit any evil deed and he had no such intent.
We could work on suppositions forever but that it what LNs do.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
Not that I think it matters because they knew he handled the boxes so his
fingerprints would be on them but did he work on different floors on
different days? What did it matter if he was working on another floor that
day as long as the area was empty at the right time.

Correct.

Post by John Blubaugh
I didn't say he
wasn't in on the whole thing but he probably wasn't a shooter. Perhaps he
wasn't even expecting shots to be fired from his building but when they
were, he knew had been lied to and left the scene.

Lied to by whom?

Uh, the people who set him up to be the Patsy just like he said?

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
You ask questions that are impossible to answer.
Perhaps he just stepped outside and they didn't
let anyone else back in and he just went home.

He was confronted by a police officer in the lunchroom, but Truly’s
identification allowed him a second chance to escape.

Or, he was not escaping but stepped outside and he was not allowed
back in the building. What was he supposed to do, just hand around the
rest of the day?

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
OK, he made the bag to sell it and they later brought the rifle in the
same bag to the TSBD. Again, how did this stealth sniper move himself
and the bag into the TSBD, shoot the President and then escape? Sounds
like a job for a ninja to me.

It wasn't so difficult. LHO was in the lunch room and there was
pandemonium and disorganization. They didn't seal the building and he
just walked away. I'm not convinced that is what happened but it could
have.

I think that is what happened. He stayed calm and even pointed out
where the phones were to reporter on the way out of the lobby. How do
you think he left the building?

I think he just walked out and the real assassin did the same thing.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
Saying no one is taking up a lot of ground. LHO carried something that
day and it sure was not the MC.

So what was in the bag and why lie about it?

People like all the time about mundane things. It doesn't make them
assassins.

Do assassins always tell the truth or do you think they tell lies too?

I am sure they do both just like all people.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
But it didn't show above his shoulder and everything the witnesses say
make that bag too short.

Everything one witness said.

No, two witnesses. The other one saw him carry the bag by the top and it
nearly dragged the ground. Of course you LNers claim that meant he carried
the bag straight out in front of him which is not what she said.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
I can almost carry the 27" bag that way but not quite. I wondered a while
earlier about LHOs sleeve length. Some folks have long arms.

Not everyone is built the same, but LHO would need to have unusually
long arms and hands to carry a 27” long package that way. One problem
with BWF’s description is his position while observing LHO carry the
bag into the building. He only saw LHO from behind so he can’t say for
sure LHO had it in his armpit or not.

Of course he can. If it was the length LNs insist he would have seen it
sticking up over his shoulder and it would have looked like he was
carrying a weapon. Frazier didn't question the curtain rod story, why do
all of you?

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
Why would anyone carry something in a painful position like that and why
didn't the witness note that?

That is not a painful position. It’s the same position of doing curls
with barbells.

And that is natural for carrying something? Come on, think a little
bit. He would have stuck out like a sore thumb doing thatt.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
Hey, he could have held it straight out at his shoulder and he could
have carried a four foot bag. But his arm would have hurt plenty.
You are stretching here. I did like your thought about bringing the MC
in on two different occasions. That does seem possible to me and it
matches the testimony of the witnesses.

I try to consider all possibile solutions to fit the evidence. If the
package was indeed full of just the metal parts of the rifle, how did
LHO get the wooden stock into the TSBD? BWF never saw him carry
anything else to work and he was LHO’s only known means of
transportation to and from Irving. As was proved in the Clay Shaw
trial BWF was not a good judge of long objects, so it would be more
logical he simply misjudged the length of the package that day since
he never got a really good look at it compared to LHO's anatomy. His
sister had the best view of LHO walking toward her vantage point from
across the street.

Who says that LHO had to carry it in? Did Frazier take him every day? It
would only take one time. He didn't misjudge the length of the package. He
made detailed observations that limit how long it could be. His sister
testified to how it was carried when she saw it and that made her come up
with the length of 27". You can bend and twist forever but you cannot
shake these two very good witnesses.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
There is one more issue to consider. Maybe BWF was lying to protect
his friend, because he wanted to believe LHO was innocent.

I doubt they were that close but anything is possible.

Frazier: Oswald not capable of killing http://youtu.be/UbHPK7vWxqI
Oswald and the http://youtu.be/iDWaOjFqgHk
"ON TRIAL: LEE HARVEY OSWALD" (PART 3)(WITNESS: BUELL WESLEY http://youtu.be/tzw3RlNgR1s

So what. That was his opinion and he may have been correct.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
He also got the sister to lie too?

Not to lie, but convinced her she was wrong.

Oh, please that is just a guess and speculation on your part. So contact
her and ask her if that happened or ask what she thinks about her
testimony about the package after all of these years. It isn't important
to me but if it is life and death for LNs why haven't they done that.

Post by claviger
Her testimony has now been tainted by a family member’s influence.
Keep in mind it is standard procedure to separate witnesses to hear
what they have to say before they can influence each other, or
friends, relatives, neighbors, co-workers, newspapers, magazines,
reporters, TV, radio, etc. have a chance to impact witness testimony.

But, like many other things that wasn't done in this case but I see no
reason to impune the integrity of these people.

Post by claviger
In this case it would be possible for Ruth Paine or Marina Oswald to
walk across the street and plead with Linnie Mae Randle to change her
description of the package to help LHO out of a jam. As a wife and
mother she may feel sorry for Marina and go along with her brother’s
description. We have no indication that took place, but it could
happen when people live that close together who were friends and co-
workers.

Anything can happen but that doesn't mean that it did. I believe the
witnesses and I find them very credible. People go to jail for telling
lies like that. Do you think she thought enough of Paine, Marina or LHO to
risk going to jail for them? I don't.

JB

[claviger]

JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
What does this have to do with her official statement under oath? This
one doesn't mean anything.

Original statements to the police are very meaningful, especially
original statements taken the same day of the incident. It is an
official record as part of an investigation. Statements serve a
similar purpose as a deposition. Police officers find them very
helpful which is why initial statements are given the most weight,
because they have time value when memories are fresh.

This case is a perfect example. Linnie Mae Randle saw a package about
3' long and 6" wide on the morning of the same day she gave this
statement. After 3 months of discussing this package with her brother
she later changes her story to 27". BWF liked LHO and this may be his
way of trying to protect his friend's reputation, even after his
death.

Of the two Linnie Mae had the better view of the package as LHO walked
toward her driveway from across the street. BWF only glanced at it on
his backseat. When he saw LHO carry it into the building he could only
see the back of LHO from several feet away. He admits he did not get a
good look at it as LHO walked away from him. The cupped hand might be
right, but there is no way LHO could carry even a 27" package in his
armpit. That is physically impossible.

[John Blubaugh]

Post by claviger
JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
What does this have to do with her official statement under oath? This
one doesn't mean anything.

Original statements to the police are very meaningful, especially
original statements taken the same day of the incident. It is an
official record as part of an investigation. Statements serve a
similar purpose as a deposition. Police officers find them very
helpful which is why initial statements are given the most weight,
because they have time value when memories are fresh.

Blah, blah, blah and this all goes aways away when she had time to think
about it and remember how LHO carried the package and make a few
measurements. In this case, because a length is involved, I'll stick with
her final statement under oath.

Post by claviger
This case is a perfect example. Linnie Mae Randle saw a package about
3' long and 6" wide on the morning of the same day she gave this
statement. After 3 months of discussing this package with her brother
she later changes her story to 27". BWF liked LHO and this may be his
way of trying to protect his friend's reputation, even after his
death.

Your source for this information that she discussed this with her brother
is? Don't you think the police ordered her not to discuss it with anyone?
How about she just remembered details that made the length much clearer
for her.

Post by claviger
Of the two Linnie Mae had the better view of the package as LHO walked
toward her driveway from across the street. BWF only glanced at it on
his backseat. When he saw LHO carry it into the building he could only
see the back of LHO from several feet away. He admits he did not get a
good look at it as LHO walked away from him. The cupped hand might be
right, but there is no way LHO could carry even a 27" package in his
armpit. That is physically impossible.

It isn't impossible. I can carry a 25" package that way easily. So if I
gripped up about two or three inches I could do it. I don't know how long
LHOs arms were. I suppose someone here knows his sleeve length. I am about
6' and he was a bit shorter. Linne Mae also said LHO carried the bag
holding the top and it almost touched the ground. Try doing that with a
36" bag. But a 27" bag works nicely.

JB

[claviger]

JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
Blah, blah, blah and this all goes aways away when she had time to think
about it and remember how LHO carried the package and make a few
measurements. In this case, because a length is involved, I'll stick with
her final statement under oath.

Sounds like you have a bad case of the blahs! Not only does her
statement to the FBI not go away, it becomes the first official
version of what this witness saw and heard. It now serves as a
baseline and a short deposition. Any statements made later will be
compared to this important one, which has the advantage of being
timely and untainted.

Post by John Blubaugh
Your source for this information that she discussed this with her brother
is? Don't you think the police ordered her not to discuss it with anyone?
How about she just remembered details that made the length much clearer
for her.

Her brother lived at her house. Do you really believe there would be
no conversation about the murder of the President of the United
States, by the brother who gave the accused murderer a ride to work
and his sister and her husband? One CT has insinuated they were all
part of the plot!
Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net / jfk-f1 / buell-wesley-
frazier-lin...

Linnie Mae Frazier gave her statement on the same day the President
was murdered. Her testimony to the Warren Commission was 110 days
later. That is over 3 months after assassination. And you seriously
think this family who lives together didn’t discuss the paper bag LHO
took to work that day?!

Post by John Blubaugh
It isn't impossible. I can carry a 25" package that way easily. So if I
gripped up about two or three inches I could do it. I don't know how long
LHOs arms were. I suppose someone here knows his sleeve length. I am about
6' and he was a bit shorter. Linne Mae also said LHO carried the bag
holding the top and it almost touched the ground. Try doing that with a
36" bag. But a 27" bag works nicely.

You must have arms that stretch like rubber. There is no way I could
cup my hand and carry a 27” package like that. As an ergonomic task it
would be too difficult. If I were to carry a 35” long package with one
hand I would grab it by the top and hold it up like LHO did when he
crossed the street. It would almost touch the ground like Linnie Mae
said, but the weight of a MC rifle can be carried by one arm over such
a short distance.

[John Blubaugh]

Post by claviger
JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
Blah, blah, blah and this all goes aways away when she had time to think
about it and remember how LHO carried the package and make a few
measurements. In this case, because a length is involved, I'll stick with
her final statement under oath.

Sounds like you have a bad case of the blahs! Not only does her
statement to the FBI not go away, it becomes the first official
version of what this witness saw and heard. It now serves as a
baseline and a short deposition. Any statements made later will be
compared to this important one, which has the advantage of being
timely and untainted.

So what? If she was put on the stand she would probably just say that
she had time to think about it and to see just how long 3' 6" was and
she realized the bag was nearly this long.

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
Your source for this information that she discussed this with her brother
is? Don't you think the police ordered her not to discuss it with anyone?
How about she just remembered details that made the length much clearer
for her.

Her brother lived at her house. Do you really believe there would be
no conversation about the murder of the President of the United
States, by the brother who gave the accused murderer a ride to work
and his sister and her husband? One CT has insinuated they were all
part of the plot!
Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randlehttp://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/ jfk-f1 / buell-wesley-
frazier-lin...

I am sure they had conversations about the assassination but that
doesn't mean they directly discussed the evidence they were going to
give testimony on and I am sure they were instructed not to. I don't
hold you responsible for one foolish LN may have said in the past and
I don't care about what one CT had to say eiher.

Post by claviger
Linnie Mae Frazier gave her statement on the same day the President
was murdered. Her testimony to the Warren Commission was 110 days
later. That is over 3 months after assassination. And you seriously
think this family who lives together didn’t discuss the paper bag LHO
took to work that day?!

I am sure they were ordered not to do so. I don't speculate about such
things, LNs do enough of that for everyone. Have you asked them if
they discussed it? Why guess?

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh
It isn't impossible. I can carry a 25" package that way easily. So if I
gripped up about two or three inches I could do it. I don't know how long
LHOs arms were. I suppose someone here knows his sleeve length. I am about
6' and he was a bit shorter. Linne Mae also said LHO carried the bag
holding the top and it almost touched the ground. Try doing that with a
36" bag. But a 27" bag works nicely.

You must have arms that stretch like rubber. There is no way I could
cup my hand and carry a 27” package like that. As an ergonomic task it
would be too difficult. If I were to carry a 35” long package with one
hand I would grab it by the top and hold it up like LHO did when he
crossed the street. It would almost touch the ground like Linnie Mae
said, but the weight of a MC rifle can be carried by one arm over such
a short distance.

You would have to hold it straight out. Come on, who would do that? I
tried that and it sure looks and feels silly as hell. That doesn't
mean that it didn't happen but it would have looked odd enough that
the witness surely would have noticed it.

JB

[claviger]

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

Yes, if he said it had curtain rods in the bag that must have meant that
it was really the MC. Another LN fanatic leap of logic that doesn't hold
up. I read all of the LN and CT arguments about the bag years ago. I
thought the LN crowd was full of it then and I still do.

JB,
Why do you think there were curtain rods in the bag? Nothing about his
story checks out. His whole purpose in hitching a ride on Thursday instead
of Friday was to pick up some curtain rods from Ruth Paine. He never
mentioned it to her nor did he take the curtain rods without permission.
Her curtain rods were still wrapped up where she kept them. There was no
need for curtain rods in his rented room and none found at the TSBD.
However, his rifle hidden in a blanket in the garage did end up at the
TSBD. So do you think it possible he disassembled the rifle and put it in
the bag instead of curtain rods? Why did he tell BWF he would not be
coming to visit on Friday too?- Hide quoted text -

JB,

Post by John Blubaugh
Why do you think there was an MC in the bag when the eyewitness both
testified with details that showed the bag was too short to hold the
brokendown MC?

Both eyewitnesses did not testify with details showing the bag was too
short to hold a brokendown MC rifle. As explained to you earlier
police investigators give a higher priority to initial statements
taken soon after the event and will separate witnesses so they won't
influence each other. In her first statement Linnie Mae Randle
described the package as about 3 feet long. The longest piece of a
brokendown MC is 35" long. The bag found was 38" long. So her first
impression was a good description. She also saw LHO carry the bag in
one hand and it almost touched the ground. Randle also remembered the
bag carried something heavy causing the shape of the bag to be wider
at the bottom than the top. This complete description argues against
curtain rods and for a disassembled rifle.

I think it is most curious that LHO would not wait for his normal
Friday visit to pick up something as mundane as curtain rods. That way
he would get to spend time with his family all weekend and still
borrow those cheap devices for hanging curtains.

In other words, he could kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.
Instead he shot two politicians with one bullet. Evidently he made a
decision to take his rifle not the curtain rods, so rather than
spending time redecorating his rented room he spent the weekend in the
Dallas County Jail. Not a good decision and it all ended badly for
him.

[John Blubaugh]

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

Yes, if he said it had curtain rods in the bag that must have meant that
it was really the MC. Another LN fanatic leap of logic that doesn't hold
up. I read all of the LN and CT arguments about the bag years ago. I
thought the LN crowd was full of it then and I still do.

JB,
Why do you think there were curtain rods in the bag? Nothing about his
story checks out. His whole purpose in hitching a ride on Thursday instead
of Friday was to pick up some curtain rods from Ruth Paine. He never
mentioned it to her nor did he take the curtain rods without permission.
Her curtain rods were still wrapped up where she kept them. There was no
need for curtain rods in his rented room and none found at the TSBD.
However, his rifle hidden in a blanket in the garage did end up at the
TSBD. So do you think it possible he disassembled the rifle and put it in
the bag instead of curtain rods? Why did he tell BWF he would not be
coming to visit on Friday too?- Hide quoted text -

JB,> Why do you think there was an MC in the bag when the eyewitness both

Post by John Blubaugh
testified with details that showed the bag was too short to hold the
brokendown MC?

Both eyewitnesses did not testify with details showing the bag was too
short to hold a brokendown MC rifle.

One of them did and the other's estimate agreed with him.

As explained to you earlier

police investigators give a higher priority to initial statements
taken soon after the event and will separate witnesses so they won't
influence each other. In her first statement Linnie Mae Randle
described the package as about 3 feet long. The longest piece of a
brokendown MC is 35" long. The bag found was 38" long. So her first
impression was a good description.

Did she make that first statement under oath for the record? Her
statement for the record is that it is much shorter than that. People
are awful at guessing the length of anything including a yardstick but
when they take time to think about what they saw and break out a tape
to compare, they get the measurement very closely.

She also saw LHO carry the bag in

one hand and it almost touched the ground. Randle also remembered the
bag carried something heavy causing the shape of the bag to be wider
at the bottom than the top. This complete description argues against
curtain rods and for a disassembled rifle.

I don't know what was in the bag but I just tried your to repeat what
you said and if I at 6' tall carry a 36" object bag by the top it will
most certainly rub the ground. In fact, the longest article I can
carry this way and not have it touch the ground is 30". LHO was three
inches shorter than I am so that should mean he could only carry a 27"
bag from the top without it touching the ground. Isn't that amazing,
that agrees with the estimates of the eyewitnesses.

I think it is most curious that LHO would not wait for his normal
Friday visit to pick up something as mundane as curtain rods. That way
he would get to spend time with his family all weekend and still
borrow those cheap devices for hanging curtains.

People do curious things all of the time but that doesn't make them
assassins or mean they are carrying a weapon to work.

In other words, he could kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.
Instead he shot two politicians with one bullet. Evidently he made a
decision to take his rifle not the curtain rods, so rather than
spending time redecorating his rented room he spent the weekend in the
Dallas County Jail. Not a good decision and it all ended badly for
him.- Hide quoted text -

It certainly ended badly for him. I suspect that an innocent man was
accused and then killed because of something he did not do.

JB

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by John Blubaugh

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

Yes, if he said it had curtain rods in the bag that must have meant that
it was really the MC. Another LN fanatic leap of logic that doesn't hold
up. I read all of the LN and CT arguments about the bag years ago. I
thought the LN crowd was full of it then and I still do.

JB,
Why do you think there were curtain rods in the bag? Nothing about his
story checks out. His whole purpose in hitching a ride on Thursday instead
of Friday was to pick up some curtain rods from Ruth Paine. He never
mentioned it to her nor did he take the curtain rods without permission.
Her curtain rods were still wrapped up where she kept them. There was no
need for curtain rods in his rented room and none found at the TSBD.

Oswald needed sturdier curtain rods to replace the flimsy curtains and
rods in his room. And they did not find his jacket at the TSBD until
weeks later.

Post by claviger
However, his rifle hidden in a blanket in the garage did end up at the
TSBD. So do you think it possible he disassembled the rifle and put it in
the bag instead of curtain rods? Why did he tell BWF he would not be
coming to visit on Friday too?

[j leyden]

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them....

Not only curtain rods and curtains, his room had Venetian blinds which
would provide all the privacy he could possibly want. The idea that he
was going to redecorate a room he rented by the week without even
consulting the landlord is a story only a CT could believe. But they tend
to be flexible.

JGL

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by j leyden

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them....

Not only curtain rods and curtains, his room had Venetian blinds which
would provide all the privacy he could possibly want. The idea that he
was going to redecorate a room he rented by the week without even
consulting the landlord is a story only a CT could believe. But they tend
to be flexible.
JGL

Wrong. Obviously you've never lived in the real world.
I have. I lived in a rooming house and had the same problem with cheap
curtains. So I bought room darkening curtains and heavy duty curtain
rods. I put them up myself without asking the landlady for permission.
I guess that makes me a terrorist, eh?

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by j leyden

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them....

Not only curtain rods and curtains, his room had Venetian blinds which
would provide all the privacy he could possibly want.  The idea that he
was going to redecorate a room he rented by the week without even
consulting the landlord is a story only a CT could believe.  But they tend
to be flexible.
JGL

Wrong. Obviously you've never lived in the real world.
I have. I lived in a rooming house and had the same problem with cheap
curtains. So I bought room darkening curtains and heavy duty curtain
rods. I put them up myself without asking the landlady for permission.
I guess that makes me a terrorist, eh?

Thanks for sharing this fascinating story about living in the real world.
So this proves there were curtain rods in the long heavy brown bag, eh?
What else did you do without permission in your darkened room?

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by j leyden

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them....

Not only curtain rods and curtains, his room had Venetian blinds which
would provide all the privacy he could possibly want. The idea that he
was going to redecorate a room he rented by the week without even
consulting the landlord is a story only a CT could believe. But they tend
to be flexible.
JGL

Wrong. Obviously you've never lived in the real world.
I have. I lived in a rooming house and had the same problem with cheap
curtains. So I bought room darkening curtains and heavy duty curtain
rods. I put them up myself without asking the landlady for permission.
I guess that makes me a terrorist, eh?

Thanks for sharing this fascinating story about living in the real world.
So this proves there were curtain rods in the long heavy brown bag, eh?
What else did you do without permission in your darkened room?

I never offered my comment as proof that curtain rods were in the short
light brown bag. All I did was explain WHY Oswald would want new curtains.
I am moving into a new apartment which does not allow installing anything,
so I'll have to find a clever way to put up curtains without any screws. I
think I'll leave behind my old curtain rods so that the next tenant will
have some proper curtain rods.

I'm thinking Roman shades this time. Maybe UV blocking.

[j leyden]

Post by Anthony Marsh
Wrong. Obviously you've never lived in the real world.
I have. I lived in a rooming house and had the same problem with cheap
curtains. So I bought room darkening curtains and heavy duty curtain
rods. I put them up myself without asking the landlady for permission.
I guess that makes me a terrorist, eh?

Everything is Not about you, Tony. The windows in Oswald's room had
Venetian blinds in addition to curtains and curtain rods. You know how
they work, don't you? Too bad you didn't think of installing those.
BTW, why didn't you ask the landlady for permission to install your own
curtains? If you had tried that with me, you would have been out on the
street.

JGL

[bigdog]

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

The real fallacy of the curtain rod story made no sense in light of
Oswald's normal routine. Normally he would return to Irving with Frazier
on Friday evenings and come back to work with him on Monday morning, then
spend Monday through Thursday evenings at his rooming house. So why would
he make a special trip to Irving on Thursday. If he followed his routine,
he wouldn't be returning to his rooming house until the following Monday
evening anyway. So why not just follow his normal routine and pick up the
curtain rods on the weekend. Apparently, whatever he picked up and brought
into the TSBD in the bag couldn't wait for the weekend. I wonder what that
could have been.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by bigdog

Post by claviger
The curtain rod story proves one thing, LHO was a liar. Ruth Paine
knew nothing about the story. She had two curtain rods in the garage
but they were still there after the assassination. His room already
had curtain rods with curtains hanging on them. He was talking to
Marina about moving so why would he care? He walked rapidly into the
building before BWF could catch up to him. Normally they walked along
together. So why would he lie about what was in the bag? Unless, of
course, it was a disassembled rifle he wanted to sneak into the
building to hide before anyone else noticed, got curious about the
heavy contents in the strange shaped bag, and reported it to the
manager.

The real fallacy of the curtain rod story made no sense in light of
Oswald's normal routine. Normally he would return to Irving with Frazier
on Friday evenings and come back to work with him on Monday morning, then
spend Monday through Thursday evenings at his rooming house. So why would
he make a special trip to Irving on Thursday. If he followed his routine,
he wouldn't be returning to his rooming house until the following Monday
evening anyway. So why not just follow his normal routine and pick up the
curtain rods on the weekend. Apparently, whatever he picked up and brought
into the TSBD in the bag couldn't wait for the weekend. I wonder what that
could have been.

You fail to pay attention. We have discussed this before. Oswald wanted
to go out on Thursday to try to reconcile with Marina and get her to
move back in with him. If successful he would spend the weekend looking
for an apartment.

[claviger]

Anthony,

Post by Anthony Marsh
You fail to pay attention. We have discussed this before. Oswald wanted
to go out on Thursday to try to reconcile with Marina and get her to
move back in with him. If successful he would spend the weekend looking
for an apartment.

OK, so she said no, he got mad and took the rifle to work instead of
curtain rods. He then vented his rage by shooting at politicians in the
motorcade that passed by the building he worked in. So its all Marina's
fault.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger
Anthony,

Post by Anthony Marsh
You fail to pay attention. We have discussed this before. Oswald wanted
to go out on Thursday to try to reconcile with Marina and get her to
move back in with him. If successful he would spend the weekend looking
for an apartment.

OK, so she said no, he got mad and took the rifle to work instead of
curtain rods. He then vented his rage by shooting at politicians in the
motorcade that passed by the building he worked in. So its all Marina's
fault.

It's not my theory, but many WC defenders think so.