On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 12:10:34 AM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire...
Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili KujisalimishaPost by Peter TreiAt 15 minutes, it is still longer than a stop at a gas
station, but not *that* much longer. I don't think you'll be
seeing them in homes anytime soon; they run at 250 kW.
15 minutes for 75 miles ia a *lot* longer than three minutes
for 400. And that's the first 75 miles. The last 75 miles
takes a lot longer. How long for a *full* charge? And how car
will that take you? How much does a Tesla with a 370 mile
range cost? Last I heard on prices, I could buy two or three
Corollas for the price of one Tesla with that kind of range.
My cousins Model 3 with the dual motors and the 310 mile
battery cost $69K. I don't think that you can get a bigger
battery (yet).
There is a 12 port supercharger about 3 miles away from my
house in Rudy's BBQ parking lot. I always see at least one car
charging there and recently saw five cars charging: three model
3, one S, and one X.
Since Terry loves playing fast and loose with numbers, lets get
My Model 3 has a smaller battery - about 230 miles range,
So about half the range of my Toyota
and
cost $42k all in,
At over twice the price
$37k after subsidies.
Paid for by taxpayers.
Look at the cost of
regular cars these days - a new, rock bottom Corolla is about
$20k+ all in, with no subsidies, with about 400 miles range.
Yep.
Yes, I have to spend more time worrying about State of Charge
(SOC) than the Corolla owner does about gas.
For values of "worrying about" that add up to "usable as a second
vehicle, but in no way capable of replacing my primary vehicle."
But there are
compensating issues.
Like having other people pay for part of your expensive toy?
1. A Corolla is not at all in the same class as an M3. The
latter is a far nicer car, with performance, safety, handling,
and amenities which blow the Corolla out of the water. An
equivalent ICE car would be a similar price to an M3.
None of which matters all that much to the average commuter, since
the electric car simply can't replace their primary car.
2. I pay a lot less per mile. 400 miles of gas for the Corolla
is about $36.
A bit more, here.
The M3, if driven aggressively, uses about 250 Wh
per mile, so about 100 KWh for 400 miles. The commercial
chargers run about 25 cents per KWh, and my home electricity
about 9 cents.
I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but I pay a
*lot* more for electricity. Last time I did the math, at 40 mpg
(which is what I get on the highway), an electric car would cost
*more* per mile for the energy.
And $20,000 will buy me about 5,000 gallons of gas, with which I
can drive 200,000 miles. And my Toyota will, if I take care of it,
last 200,000 miles without anything too major happening. How often
do Teslas have to replace their batters, and at what cost?
(And keep in mind, southern California as a *lot* of cars, and will
thus be disproprotionately affected by all this.)
400 miles of juice costs me between $9 and $25.
At the moment, a *lot* of 'destination chargers' are actually
free to use, as businesses use them to draw in customers.
Yeah, you love to have other people pay for your stuff, don't you?
I'm
sure that even Terry's apartment complex, that the landlord
makes some profit from chargers won't bother residents who now
have a cheaper source of energy.
A) It's *not* cheaper, and B) we've covered the seven figure price
tag for installing 200 of them, so no, the residents won't be happy
about the doubling of their rent.
3. Maintenance is lower. No oil, far fewer moving parts.
Until the batteries are worn out. Or catch on fire, which they seem
to have a disturbing habit of doing.
My next
scheduled maintenance is in 3 years, to check the battery
coolant. I do have to replace wipers, wiper fluid, and tires,
but that's about it.
4. Charging is a different experience than gassing up.
Yeah. For starters, it takes a *lot* longer.
Gas
stations are dedicated facilities - you can't do anything else
while fueling, and just want it over as fast as possible.
The reason you don't feel the same about charging is that you
*can't*.
Chargepoints are not dedicated facilities. They can exist
anywhere there's a parking spot and an electrical supply.
And a willingness to subsidize your driving.
They
are usually unstaffed (though monitored over the net).
Crucially, you don't have to stay with the car. This means that
you can do other stuff while charging.
Which is good since it takes so long. That's not a feature, son.
L2 chargers (the most
common) take several hours to charge from zero to full, but if
its on your driveway you just do it overnight. If its at a
destination, you may not be there long enough to get a full
charge, but you can get a substantial boost.
Which you desperately *need*.
By comparison, I can hope in my car, drive to Las Vega _and back_
without stopping for gas, with nary a thought about getting stuck
on the road.
For example, if I choose to Supercharge, there's one in a mall
parking lot on my way home.
Versus several dozen gas stations.
Typically, juicing up takes 20-30
minutes after a day's driving. However, there's a Market Basket
100 yards away, so I usually walk over and do any needed
shopping for the day while the car charges.
Which, again, is good since it takes longer.
Last week I spent a couple days at a AWS trade show. It had free L2 chargers,
Was willing to subsidize your driving.
and I juiced up at them. Took 5 hours on the second
day, but I was in the show, not at the car. I spent about 60
seconds plugging in.
And they paid for it. Do you really believe they'll continue to pay
for it when _all_ cars are electric? Especially after paying to
install all the chargers, and the rather massive power grid needed
to run them. The subsidies only happen when they're a novelty.
The Superchargers, especially the V3 versions,
Which apparently only work on the S models, at least so far, at
full capacity.
make electric
cars viable for people without dedicated off street parking.
No, they do not. Especially since people without dedicated off
street parking aren't going to be buy a $70k car in the first
place.
They add 75 miles in 5 minutes (Terry lied in claiming 15),
Wasn't my number, actually, retard.
and
a full charge in about 1/4 of an hour.
I don't believe the marketing hype. What's the power circuit
running it? How many megawatts?
A gallon of gasoline has the equivalent of 33.70 kwh. I can drive
400 miles on about 10 gallons of gasoline. That's 337 kwh. To
deliver than in 15 minutes requires one hell of a charger.
I don't believe teh marking hype.
At the moment, Tesla Superchargers are Tesla-only,
And very likely to remain so for as long as Elon Musk has anything
to say about it.
and are
distributed to make long-distance travel easier.
How many are in rural Nebraska?
They were part
of the effort to make Teslas appear viable for long trips.
As opposed to making them *be* viable for long trips.
To
expand e-cars into built-up areas, we'll have to see more placed
in cities, and expanded to other brands.
A *lot* more, plus power grid upgrades to handle the load.
5. These are very early days. Buying an e-car now is like Buying
a Model T in 1911.
Except Model Ts in 1911 a) weren't among the more expensive cars
around, in fact, they were among the cheapest, and B) weren't
heavily taxpayer subsidized, and C) didn't have others willing to
subsidize the gasolien costs to drive them.
So no, it's really not like that at all.
They're flying off the shelves,
Relatively speaking, given the inability to Tesla to ramp up
production very fast. That says more about their marketing hype
than it does about the viability of the vehicles as a replacement
for the family car.
but the
infrastructure still needs development,
A lot of development, some of which is being ignored.
and mass production
hasn't brought the price down.
And won't until it's actually mass production. Which won't happen
until they actually can replace the family car.
The Model T was $680 in 1911, but
only $260 by 1925. I'm sure there will be more affordable e-cars
in the future.
No doubt. But they won't be completely replacaing gasoline cars any
time soon.
There is a place for electric cars. That place is not in every
garage (or apartment complex carport, or street parkign spot).
--
Terry Austin
Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)
Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB