Discussion:
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
(too old to reply)
Cees Binkhorst
2014-04-12 09:46:21 UTC
Permalink
http://iheartmatlab.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/analysis-of-suspected-mh370-pings.html

Wednesday, April 9, 2014
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
So this is a bit of a deviation from my normal MATLAB oriented posts.
In-fact MATLAB was not used once in this analysis!

I've been following the MH370 disappearance since it happened. With such
a lack of confirmed information there have been a lot of interesting
theories discussed on multiple forums (Whirlpool and PPRUNE are a couple
of interesting ones).

As I have a knowledge in acoustics (I am an Analyst / Software Engineer
for an underwater acoustics company and I specialise in tracking things
with pingers fitted to them), I've been trying to spread facts when I
know them and try and dispel myths.

Today I saw an interesting video from Sky News on a forum of the
suspected MH370 pings recorded by ADV Ocean Shield using the SUBSALV
Towed Pinger Locator TPL-25 (pinger audible 18 seconds in):

I thought I would see if I could glean any information from the audio in
the publicly released video. In particular I was wanting to look at the
inter-ping interval to see how steady it was to try and determine if the
noise is man-made or natural (ie marine mammal noise).
The signal is quite noisy with ambient ship noise and other transients
(scuffing of shoes on deck!) but a repeated click can be heard.

Process

Extracted the audio from the Youtube video using a web-based MP3
extractor
Opened the MP3 in Adobe Audition and trimmed the file to the time
segment corresponding to good audio (start time 41.787s from beginning
of file, duration 22.462 seconds)
Bandpass filtered the audio between 2kHz and 10kHz to remove LF
ambient noise (NOTE: the 'pinger' is audible at about 3.4kHz however it
obviously has been demodulated down from the raw signal observed on the
TPL-25 to bring into the audible range)

Filtered Time Domain Signal - Red ticks added at repeated 'ping' noise

A manual search of the waveform (zooming in tight where necessary)
was performed to measure the start time of each ping transient to within
a couple of wavelengths

Results
The detection times of the pings are listed in the table below along
with some basic statistics.

Ping # Time (s) Interval (s)
1 0.758
2 1.861 1.103
3 2.964 1.103
4 4.067 1.103
5 5.171 1.104
6 6.274 1.103
7 7.38 1.106
8 8.486 1.106
9 9.592 1.106
10 10.696 1.104
11 11.801 1.105
12 12.907 1.106
13 14.014 1.107
14 15.12 1.106
15 16.226 1.106
16 17.333 1.107
18 19.549 1.108
19 20.657 1.108
20 21.764 1.107


Mean 1.10544
Std Dev 0.00172

As you can see, the ping interval is very stable with an average of
1.105s and standard deviation of less than 2ms.

This is incredibly stable over the 20 seconds that I've looked at and
very unlikely to be a marine mammal (ie beaked or sperm whale) which DO
create broadband pulses at regular intervals, but I've never seen them
that regular.

This strongly suggests the recorded signal is man-made. Highly probably
it is from the Underwater Locator Beacon due to the very close match to
the expected ping rate of 0.9Hz or 1 ping per 1.111 seconds.

However it COULD be from other repetitive signal sources such as a stray
echo sounder nearby; although that would be a soul crushing
disappointment to all onboard ADV Ocean Shield and the other involved in
the search. Also.. WHAT CRAZY PERSON WOULD PUT A SOUNDER ON DURING AN
ACOUSTIC SEARCH!?!

One last thing to note about the observed ping intervals is that they
appear to increase slightly over time (order of 4ms). Whilst the sample
set isn't long enough to show consistency, I see patterns like these all
the time when tracking moving items fitted with pingers from stationary
receivers (conceptually the same thing as the stationary pinger and
moving receiver on ADV Ocean Shield).

It could be either:

- The decreasing battery voltage is causing the ping interval to
increase. However it doesn't seem likely this phenomenon would be
observed over such a short time window

- The audio recording segment corresponds to when the towed pinger
locator has performed a Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and is now
opening in range from the source. When this happens a effect similar to
Doppler occurs in that the time between successive pings appears to
increase as because between successive pings the receiver has moved
further away.

For the segment analysed it corresponds to a slant range increase of 6
metres over 20 seconds, or 0.3m/s or 0.6 knots. If the towed pinger
locator is transiting at 2 knots and the depth of the receiver is known,
you could estimate a very rough range to the source by looking at the
vector component in the horizontal direction. (its late where I am but
I'll try and do some example calculations tomorrow)
Posted by Rodney Thomson at 12:45 AM
Brad Guth
2014-04-12 16:45:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cees Binkhorst
http://iheartmatlab.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/analysis-of-suspected-mh370-pings.html
Wednesday, April 9, 2014
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
So this is a bit of a deviation from my normal MATLAB oriented posts.
In-fact MATLAB was not used once in this analysis!
I've been following the MH370 disappearance since it happened. With such
a lack of confirmed information there have been a lot of interesting
theories discussed on multiple forums (Whirlpool and PPRUNE are a couple
of interesting ones).
As I have a knowledge in acoustics (I am an Analyst / Software Engineer
for an underwater acoustics company and I specialise in tracking things
with pingers fitted to them), I've been trying to spread facts when I
know them and try and dispel myths.
Today I saw an interesting video from Sky News on a forum of the
suspected MH370 pings recorded by ADV Ocean Shield using the SUBSALV
I thought I would see if I could glean any information from the audio in
the publicly released video. In particular I was wanting to look at the
inter-ping interval to see how steady it was to try and determine if the
noise is man-made or natural (ie marine mammal noise).
The signal is quite noisy with ambient ship noise and other transients
(scuffing of shoes on deck!) but a repeated click can be heard.
Process
Extracted the audio from the Youtube video using a web-based MP3
extractor
Opened the MP3 in Adobe Audition and trimmed the file to the time
segment corresponding to good audio (start time 41.787s from beginning
of file, duration 22.462 seconds)
Bandpass filtered the audio between 2kHz and 10kHz to remove LF
ambient noise (NOTE: the 'pinger' is audible at about 3.4kHz however it
obviously has been demodulated down from the raw signal observed on the
TPL-25 to bring into the audible range)
Filtered Time Domain Signal - Red ticks added at repeated 'ping' noise
A manual search of the waveform (zooming in tight where necessary)
was performed to measure the start time of each ping transient to within
a couple of wavelengths
Results
The detection times of the pings are listed in the table below along
with some basic statistics.
Ping # Time (s) Interval (s)
1 0.758
2 1.861 1.103
3 2.964 1.103
4 4.067 1.103
5 5.171 1.104
6 6.274 1.103
7 7.38 1.106
8 8.486 1.106
9 9.592 1.106
10 10.696 1.104
11 11.801 1.105
12 12.907 1.106
13 14.014 1.107
14 15.12 1.106
15 16.226 1.106
16 17.333 1.107
18 19.549 1.108
19 20.657 1.108
20 21.764 1.107
Mean 1.10544
Std Dev 0.00172
As you can see, the ping interval is very stable with an average of
1.105s and standard deviation of less than 2ms.
This is incredibly stable over the 20 seconds that I've looked at and
very unlikely to be a marine mammal (ie beaked or sperm whale) which DO
create broadband pulses at regular intervals, but I've never seen them
that regular.
This strongly suggests the recorded signal is man-made. Highly probably
it is from the Underwater Locator Beacon due to the very close match to
the expected ping rate of 0.9Hz or 1 ping per 1.111 seconds.
However it COULD be from other repetitive signal sources such as a stray
echo sounder nearby; although that would be a soul crushing
disappointment to all onboard ADV Ocean Shield and the other involved in
the search. Also.. WHAT CRAZY PERSON WOULD PUT A SOUNDER ON DURING AN
ACOUSTIC SEARCH!?!
One last thing to note about the observed ping intervals is that they
appear to increase slightly over time (order of 4ms). Whilst the sample
set isn't long enough to show consistency, I see patterns like these all
the time when tracking moving items fitted with pingers from stationary
receivers (conceptually the same thing as the stationary pinger and
moving receiver on ADV Ocean Shield).
- The decreasing battery voltage is causing the ping interval to
increase. However it doesn't seem likely this phenomenon would be
observed over such a short time window
- The audio recording segment corresponds to when the towed pinger
locator has performed a Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and is now
opening in range from the source. When this happens a effect similar to
Doppler occurs in that the time between successive pings appears to
increase as because between successive pings the receiver has moved
further away.
For the segment analysed it corresponds to a slant range increase of 6
metres over 20 seconds, or 0.3m/s or 0.6 knots. If the towed pinger
locator is transiting at 2 knots and the depth of the receiver is known,
you could estimate a very rough range to the source by looking at the
vector component in the horizontal direction. (its late where I am but
I'll try and do some example calculations tomorrow)
Posted by Rodney Thomson at 12:45 AM
Thanks for that informative feedback.

The weak signal is perhaps due to those recorders being still inside the main structure that's also partly into the bottom silt, not to mentions miles from the surface and offset to any direction by at least four times as many miles.
Rod Speed
2014-04-12 18:42:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Cees Binkhorst
http://iheartmatlab.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/analysis-of-suspected-mh370-pings.html
Wednesday, April 9, 2014
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
So this is a bit of a deviation from my normal MATLAB oriented posts.
In-fact MATLAB was not used once in this analysis!
I've been following the MH370 disappearance since it happened. With such
a lack of confirmed information there have been a lot of interesting
theories discussed on multiple forums (Whirlpool and PPRUNE are a couple
of interesting ones).
As I have a knowledge in acoustics (I am an Analyst / Software Engineer
for an underwater acoustics company and I specialise in tracking things
with pingers fitted to them), I've been trying to spread facts when I
know them and try and dispel myths.
Today I saw an interesting video from Sky News on a forum of the
suspected MH370 pings recorded by ADV Ocean Shield using the SUBSALV
I thought I would see if I could glean any information from the audio in
the publicly released video. In particular I was wanting to look at the
inter-ping interval to see how steady it was to try and determine if the
noise is man-made or natural (ie marine mammal noise).
The signal is quite noisy with ambient ship noise and other transients
(scuffing of shoes on deck!) but a repeated click can be heard.
Process
Extracted the audio from the Youtube video using a web-based MP3
extractor
Opened the MP3 in Adobe Audition and trimmed the file to the time
segment corresponding to good audio (start time 41.787s from beginning
of file, duration 22.462 seconds)
Bandpass filtered the audio between 2kHz and 10kHz to remove LF
ambient noise (NOTE: the 'pinger' is audible at about 3.4kHz however it
obviously has been demodulated down from the raw signal observed on the
TPL-25 to bring into the audible range)
Filtered Time Domain Signal - Red ticks added at repeated 'ping' noise
A manual search of the waveform (zooming in tight where necessary)
was performed to measure the start time of each ping transient to within
a couple of wavelengths
Results
The detection times of the pings are listed in the table below along
with some basic statistics.
Ping # Time (s) Interval (s)
1 0.758
2 1.861 1.103
3 2.964 1.103
4 4.067 1.103
5 5.171 1.104
6 6.274 1.103
7 7.38 1.106
8 8.486 1.106
9 9.592 1.106
10 10.696 1.104
11 11.801 1.105
12 12.907 1.106
13 14.014 1.107
14 15.12 1.106
15 16.226 1.106
16 17.333 1.107
18 19.549 1.108
19 20.657 1.108
20 21.764 1.107
Mean 1.10544
Std Dev 0.00172
As you can see, the ping interval is very stable with an average of
1.105s and standard deviation of less than 2ms.
This is incredibly stable over the 20 seconds that I've looked at and
very unlikely to be a marine mammal (ie beaked or sperm whale) which DO
create broadband pulses at regular intervals, but I've never seen them
that regular.
This strongly suggests the recorded signal is man-made. Highly probably
it is from the Underwater Locator Beacon due to the very close match to
the expected ping rate of 0.9Hz or 1 ping per 1.111 seconds.
However it COULD be from other repetitive signal sources such as a stray
echo sounder nearby; although that would be a soul crushing
disappointment to all onboard ADV Ocean Shield and the other involved in
the search. Also.. WHAT CRAZY PERSON WOULD PUT A SOUNDER ON DURING AN
ACOUSTIC SEARCH!?!
One last thing to note about the observed ping intervals is that they
appear to increase slightly over time (order of 4ms). Whilst the sample
set isn't long enough to show consistency, I see patterns like these all
the time when tracking moving items fitted with pingers from stationary
receivers (conceptually the same thing as the stationary pinger and
moving receiver on ADV Ocean Shield).
- The decreasing battery voltage is causing the ping interval to
increase. However it doesn't seem likely this phenomenon would be
observed over such a short time window
- The audio recording segment corresponds to when the towed pinger
locator has performed a Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and is now
opening in range from the source. When this happens a effect similar to
Doppler occurs in that the time between successive pings appears to
increase as because between successive pings the receiver has moved
further away.
For the segment analysed it corresponds to a slant range increase of 6
metres over 20 seconds, or 0.3m/s or 0.6 knots. If the towed pinger
locator is transiting at 2 knots and the depth of the receiver is known,
you could estimate a very rough range to the source by looking at the
vector component in the horizontal direction. (its late where I am but
I'll try and do some example calculations tomorrow)
Posted by Rodney Thomson at 12:45 AM
Thanks for that informative feedback.
The weak signal is perhaps due to those recorders being
still inside the main structure that's also partly into the
bottom silt, not to mentions miles from the surface and
offset to any direction by at least four times as many miles.
Try that last bit in english instead of gobbledegook.
Brad Guth
2014-04-12 19:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Cees Binkhorst
http://iheartmatlab.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/analysis-of-suspected-mh370-pings.html
Wednesday, April 9, 2014
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
So this is a bit of a deviation from my normal MATLAB oriented posts.
In-fact MATLAB was not used once in this analysis!
I've been following the MH370 disappearance since it happened. With such
a lack of confirmed information there have been a lot of interesting
theories discussed on multiple forums (Whirlpool and PPRUNE are a couple
of interesting ones).
As I have a knowledge in acoustics (I am an Analyst / Software Engineer
for an underwater acoustics company and I specialise in tracking things
with pingers fitted to them), I've been trying to spread facts when I
know them and try and dispel myths.
Today I saw an interesting video from Sky News on a forum of the
suspected MH370 pings recorded by ADV Ocean Shield using the SUBSALV
I thought I would see if I could glean any information from the audio in
the publicly released video. In particular I was wanting to look at the
inter-ping interval to see how steady it was to try and determine if the
noise is man-made or natural (ie marine mammal noise).
The signal is quite noisy with ambient ship noise and other transients
(scuffing of shoes on deck!) but a repeated click can be heard.
Process
Extracted the audio from the Youtube video using a web-based MP3
extractor
Opened the MP3 in Adobe Audition and trimmed the file to the time
segment corresponding to good audio (start time 41.787s from beginning
of file, duration 22.462 seconds)
Bandpass filtered the audio between 2kHz and 10kHz to remove LF
ambient noise (NOTE: the 'pinger' is audible at about 3.4kHz however it
obviously has been demodulated down from the raw signal observed on the
TPL-25 to bring into the audible range)
Filtered Time Domain Signal - Red ticks added at repeated 'ping' noise
A manual search of the waveform (zooming in tight where necessary)
was performed to measure the start time of each ping transient to within
a couple of wavelengths
Results
The detection times of the pings are listed in the table below along
with some basic statistics.
Ping # Time (s) Interval (s)
1 0.758
2 1.861 1.103
3 2.964 1.103
4 4.067 1.103
5 5.171 1.104
6 6.274 1.103
7 7.38 1.106
8 8.486 1.106
9 9.592 1.106
10 10.696 1.104
11 11.801 1.105
12 12.907 1.106
13 14.014 1.107
14 15.12 1.106
15 16.226 1.106
16 17.333 1.107
18 19.549 1.108
19 20.657 1.108
20 21.764 1.107
Mean 1.10544
Std Dev 0.00172
As you can see, the ping interval is very stable with an average of
1.105s and standard deviation of less than 2ms.
This is incredibly stable over the 20 seconds that I've looked at and
very unlikely to be a marine mammal (ie beaked or sperm whale) which DO
create broadband pulses at regular intervals, but I've never seen them
that regular.
This strongly suggests the recorded signal is man-made. Highly probably
it is from the Underwater Locator Beacon due to the very close match to
the expected ping rate of 0.9Hz or 1 ping per 1.111 seconds.
However it COULD be from other repetitive signal sources such as a stray
echo sounder nearby; although that would be a soul crushing
disappointment to all onboard ADV Ocean Shield and the other involved in
the search. Also.. WHAT CRAZY PERSON WOULD PUT A SOUNDER ON DURING AN
ACOUSTIC SEARCH!?!
One last thing to note about the observed ping intervals is that they
appear to increase slightly over time (order of 4ms). Whilst the sample
set isn't long enough to show consistency, I see patterns like these all
the time when tracking moving items fitted with pingers from stationary
receivers (conceptually the same thing as the stationary pinger and
moving receiver on ADV Ocean Shield).
- The decreasing battery voltage is causing the ping interval to
increase. However it doesn't seem likely this phenomenon would be
observed over such a short time window
- The audio recording segment corresponds to when the towed pinger
locator has performed a Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and is now
opening in range from the source. When this happens a effect similar to
Doppler occurs in that the time between successive pings appears to
increase as because between successive pings the receiver has moved
further away.
For the segment analysed it corresponds to a slant range increase of 6
metres over 20 seconds, or 0.3m/s or 0.6 knots. If the towed pinger
locator is transiting at 2 knots and the depth of the receiver is known,
you could estimate a very rough range to the source by looking at the
vector component in the horizontal direction. (its late where I am but
I'll try and do some example calculations tomorrow)
Posted by Rodney Thomson at 12:45 AM
Thanks for that informative feedback.
The weak signal is perhaps due to those recorders being
still inside the main structure that's also partly into the
bottom silt, not to mentions miles from the surface and
offset to any direction by at least four times as many miles.
Try that last bit in english instead of gobbledegook.
Why bother, since you could care less about the future safety of passengers and flight crews.

BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Rod Speed
2014-04-12 19:40:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Cees Binkhorst
http://iheartmatlab.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/analysis-of-suspected-mh370-pings.html
Wednesday, April 9, 2014
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
So this is a bit of a deviation from my normal MATLAB oriented posts.
In-fact MATLAB was not used once in this analysis!
I've been following the MH370 disappearance since it happened. With such
a lack of confirmed information there have been a lot of interesting
theories discussed on multiple forums (Whirlpool and PPRUNE are a couple
of interesting ones).
As I have a knowledge in acoustics (I am an Analyst / Software Engineer
for an underwater acoustics company and I specialise in tracking things
with pingers fitted to them), I've been trying to spread facts when I
know them and try and dispel myths.
Today I saw an interesting video from Sky News on a forum of the
suspected MH370 pings recorded by ADV Ocean Shield using the SUBSALV
I thought I would see if I could glean any information from the audio in
the publicly released video. In particular I was wanting to look at the
inter-ping interval to see how steady it was to try and determine if the
noise is man-made or natural (ie marine mammal noise).
The signal is quite noisy with ambient ship noise and other transients
(scuffing of shoes on deck!) but a repeated click can be heard.
Process
Extracted the audio from the Youtube video using a web-based MP3
extractor
Opened the MP3 in Adobe Audition and trimmed the file to the time
segment corresponding to good audio (start time 41.787s from beginning
of file, duration 22.462 seconds)
Bandpass filtered the audio between 2kHz and 10kHz to remove LF
ambient noise (NOTE: the 'pinger' is audible at about 3.4kHz however it
obviously has been demodulated down from the raw signal observed on the
TPL-25 to bring into the audible range)
Filtered Time Domain Signal - Red ticks added at repeated 'ping' noise
A manual search of the waveform (zooming in tight where necessary)
was performed to measure the start time of each ping transient to within
a couple of wavelengths
Results
The detection times of the pings are listed in the table below along
with some basic statistics.
Ping # Time (s) Interval (s)
1 0.758
2 1.861 1.103
3 2.964 1.103
4 4.067 1.103
5 5.171 1.104
6 6.274 1.103
7 7.38 1.106
8 8.486 1.106
9 9.592 1.106
10 10.696 1.104
11 11.801 1.105
12 12.907 1.106
13 14.014 1.107
14 15.12 1.106
15 16.226 1.106
16 17.333 1.107
18 19.549 1.108
19 20.657 1.108
20 21.764 1.107
Mean 1.10544
Std Dev 0.00172
As you can see, the ping interval is very stable with an average of
1.105s and standard deviation of less than 2ms.
This is incredibly stable over the 20 seconds that I've looked at and
very unlikely to be a marine mammal (ie beaked or sperm whale) which DO
create broadband pulses at regular intervals, but I've never seen them
that regular.
This strongly suggests the recorded signal is man-made. Highly probably
it is from the Underwater Locator Beacon due to the very close match to
the expected ping rate of 0.9Hz or 1 ping per 1.111 seconds.
However it COULD be from other repetitive signal sources such as a stray
echo sounder nearby; although that would be a soul crushing
disappointment to all onboard ADV Ocean Shield and the other involved in
the search. Also.. WHAT CRAZY PERSON WOULD PUT A SOUNDER ON DURING AN
ACOUSTIC SEARCH!?!
One last thing to note about the observed ping intervals is that they
appear to increase slightly over time (order of 4ms). Whilst the sample
set isn't long enough to show consistency, I see patterns like these all
the time when tracking moving items fitted with pingers from stationary
receivers (conceptually the same thing as the stationary pinger and
moving receiver on ADV Ocean Shield).
- The decreasing battery voltage is causing the ping interval to
increase. However it doesn't seem likely this phenomenon would be
observed over such a short time window
- The audio recording segment corresponds to when the towed pinger
locator has performed a Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and is now
opening in range from the source. When this happens a effect similar to
Doppler occurs in that the time between successive pings appears to
increase as because between successive pings the receiver has moved
further away.
For the segment analysed it corresponds to a slant range increase of 6
metres over 20 seconds, or 0.3m/s or 0.6 knots. If the towed pinger
locator is transiting at 2 knots and the depth of the receiver is known,
you could estimate a very rough range to the source by looking at the
vector component in the horizontal direction. (its late where I am but
I'll try and do some example calculations tomorrow)
Posted by Rodney Thomson at 12:45 AM
Thanks for that informative feedback.
The weak signal is perhaps due to those recorders being
still inside the main structure that's also partly into the
bottom silt, not to mentions miles from the surface and
offset to any direction by at least four times as many miles.
Try that last bit in english instead of gobbledegook.
Why bother,
Why indeed, everyone just flushes your shit and lies where it belongs.
Post by Brad Guth
BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Hell of a lot more than yours, fuckwit child.
Brad Guth
2014-04-12 20:07:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Cees Binkhorst
http://iheartmatlab.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/analysis-of-suspected-mh370-pings.html
Wednesday, April 9, 2014
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
So this is a bit of a deviation from my normal MATLAB oriented posts.
In-fact MATLAB was not used once in this analysis!
I've been following the MH370 disappearance since it happened. With
such
a lack of confirmed information there have been a lot of interesting
theories discussed on multiple forums (Whirlpool and PPRUNE are a
couple
of interesting ones).
As I have a knowledge in acoustics (I am an Analyst / Software
Engineer
for an underwater acoustics company and I specialise in tracking
things
with pingers fitted to them), I've been trying to spread facts when I
know them and try and dispel myths.
Today I saw an interesting video from Sky News on a forum of the
suspected MH370 pings recorded by ADV Ocean Shield using the SUBSALV
I thought I would see if I could glean any information from the audio
in
the publicly released video. In particular I was wanting to look at
the
inter-ping interval to see how steady it was to try and determine if
the
noise is man-made or natural (ie marine mammal noise).
The signal is quite noisy with ambient ship noise and other transients
(scuffing of shoes on deck!) but a repeated click can be heard.
Process
Extracted the audio from the Youtube video using a web-based MP3
extractor
Opened the MP3 in Adobe Audition and trimmed the file to the time
segment corresponding to good audio (start time 41.787s from beginning
of file, duration 22.462 seconds)
Bandpass filtered the audio between 2kHz and 10kHz to remove LF
ambient noise (NOTE: the 'pinger' is audible at about 3.4kHz however
it
obviously has been demodulated down from the raw signal observed on
the
TPL-25 to bring into the audible range)
Filtered Time Domain Signal - Red ticks added at repeated 'ping' noise
A manual search of the waveform (zooming in tight where necessary)
was performed to measure the start time of each ping transient to
within
a couple of wavelengths
Results
The detection times of the pings are listed in the table below along
with some basic statistics.
Ping # Time (s) Interval (s)
1 0.758
2 1.861 1.103
3 2.964 1.103
4 4.067 1.103
5 5.171 1.104
6 6.274 1.103
7 7.38 1.106
8 8.486 1.106
9 9.592 1.106
10 10.696 1.104
11 11.801 1.105
12 12.907 1.106
13 14.014 1.107
14 15.12 1.106
15 16.226 1.106
16 17.333 1.107
18 19.549 1.108
19 20.657 1.108
20 21.764 1.107
Mean 1.10544
Std Dev 0.00172
As you can see, the ping interval is very stable with an average of
1.105s and standard deviation of less than 2ms.
This is incredibly stable over the 20 seconds that I've looked at and
very unlikely to be a marine mammal (ie beaked or sperm whale) which
DO
create broadband pulses at regular intervals, but I've never seen them
that regular.
This strongly suggests the recorded signal is man-made. Highly
probably
it is from the Underwater Locator Beacon due to the very close match
to
the expected ping rate of 0.9Hz or 1 ping per 1.111 seconds.
However it COULD be from other repetitive signal sources such as a
stray
echo sounder nearby; although that would be a soul crushing
disappointment to all onboard ADV Ocean Shield and the other involved
in
the search. Also.. WHAT CRAZY PERSON WOULD PUT A SOUNDER ON DURING AN
ACOUSTIC SEARCH!?!
One last thing to note about the observed ping intervals is that they
appear to increase slightly over time (order of 4ms). Whilst the
sample
set isn't long enough to show consistency, I see patterns like these
all
the time when tracking moving items fitted with pingers from
stationary
receivers (conceptually the same thing as the stationary pinger and
moving receiver on ADV Ocean Shield).
- The decreasing battery voltage is causing the ping interval to
increase. However it doesn't seem likely this phenomenon would be
observed over such a short time window
- The audio recording segment corresponds to when the towed pinger
locator has performed a Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and is now
opening in range from the source. When this happens a effect similar
to
Doppler occurs in that the time between successive pings appears to
increase as because between successive pings the receiver has moved
further away.
For the segment analysed it corresponds to a slant range increase of 6
metres over 20 seconds, or 0.3m/s or 0.6 knots. If the towed pinger
locator is transiting at 2 knots and the depth of the receiver is
known,
you could estimate a very rough range to the source by looking at the
vector component in the horizontal direction. (its late where I am but
I'll try and do some example calculations tomorrow)
Posted by Rodney Thomson at 12:45 AM
Thanks for that informative feedback.
The weak signal is perhaps due to those recorders being
still inside the main structure that's also partly into the
bottom silt, not to mentions miles from the surface and
offset to any direction by at least four times as many miles.
Try that last bit in english instead of gobbledegook.
Why bother,
Why indeed, everyone just flushes your shit and lies where it belongs.
Post by Brad Guth
BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Hell of a lot more than yours, fuckwit child.
In other words, you admit that each and every passenger is worth at least one million, because you are worth so much more.
Rod Speed
2014-04-12 21:34:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Hell of a lot more than yours, fuckwit child.
In other words, you admit that each and
every passenger is worth at least one million,
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Post by Brad Guth
because you are worth so much more.
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Brad Guth
2014-04-12 21:53:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Hell of a lot more than yours, fuckwit child.
In other words, you admit that each and
every passenger is worth at least one million,
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Post by Brad Guth
because you are worth so much more.
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Your overwhelming dis-concern for the passengers and flight-crew is noted. Zionist Nazi Semites would however 100% agree with you.

But of course, you still do not seem to realize that Hitler was just another puppet warlord of those truly in charge. No wonder that you and others of your brown-nosed kind have always valued other humans as being so worthless or expendable.
Rod Speed
2014-04-12 22:23:46 UTC
Permalink
Some terminal fuckwit claiming to be
Brad Guth <***@gmail.com> wrote
just the mindless silly shit and lies that
is always pouring from the back of it.
Brad Guth
2014-04-12 22:34:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Some terminal fuckwit claiming to be
just the mindless silly shit and lies that
is always pouring from the back of it.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_23/EFB.pdf
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/16/opinion/palmer-malaysia-flight-370/
"On the technical side, the Boeing 777-200ER is a fly-by-wire airplane -- that is, movement of the controls is converted into electrical signals that interact with flight-control computers and instruct the plane's control surfaces on the wings and tail. Its characteristics may be able to explain much of the airplane's behavior."
F Murtz
2014-04-13 08:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Hell of a lot more than yours, fuckwit child.
In other words, you admit that each and
every passenger is worth at least one million,
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Post by Brad Guth
because you are worth so much more.
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Your overwhelming dis-concern for the passengers and flight-crew is noted.
Zionist Nazi Semites would however 100% agree with you.
But of course, you still do not seem to realize that Hitler was just
another puppet warlord of those truly in charge. No wonder that you and
others of your brown-nosed kind have always valued other humans as being
so worthless or expendable.
Mr Guth Why do you write such non aplicable meanderings with no basis?




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Rod Speed
2014-04-13 09:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by F Murtz
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Hell of a lot more than yours, fuckwit child.
In other words, you admit that each and
every passenger is worth at least one million,
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Post by Brad Guth
because you are worth so much more.
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Your overwhelming dis-concern for the passengers and flight-crew is
noted. Zionist Nazi Semites would however 100% agree with you.
But of course, you still do not seem to realize that Hitler was just
another puppet warlord of those truly in charge. No wonder that you and
others of your brown-nosed kind have always valued other humans as being
so worthless or expendable.
Mr Guth Why do you write such non aplicable meanderings with no basis?
He's got a problem with ear to ear dog shit.
Brad Guth
2014-04-13 19:00:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by F Murtz
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Hell of a lot more than yours, fuckwit child.
In other words, you admit that each and
every passenger is worth at least one million,
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Post by Brad Guth
because you are worth so much more.
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Your overwhelming dis-concern for the passengers and flight-crew is
noted. Zionist Nazi Semites would however 100% agree with you.
But of course, you still do not seem to realize that Hitler was just
another puppet warlord of those truly in charge. No wonder that you and
others of your brown-nosed kind have always valued other humans as being
so worthless or expendable.
Mr Guth Why do you write such non aplicable meanderings with no basis?
He's got a problem with ear to ear dog shit.
How much of SU-GBP (same vintage 777-200ER) was still pilot flyable?

What happens to the autopilot and FMS functionality when impacted by fire?

Did everything outside of its flaming cockpit remain safely functional?

http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/accident/Reports/B777_SU-GBP_cockpit_fire_accident%20final%20Report%20responding%20to%20boeing%20comments%2019-09-2012a.pdf
Brad Guth
2014-04-13 13:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by F Murtz
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Hell of a lot more than yours, fuckwit child.
In other words, you admit that each and
every passenger is worth at least one million,
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Post by Brad Guth
because you are worth so much more.
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Your overwhelming dis-concern for the passengers and flight-crew is noted.
Zionist Nazi Semites would however 100% agree with you.
But of course, you still do not seem to realize that Hitler was just
another puppet warlord of those truly in charge. No wonder that you and
others of your brown-nosed kind have always valued other humans as being
so worthless or expendable.
Mr Guth Why do you write such non aplicable meanderings with no basis?
---
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http://www.avast.com
If you want to believe there were no such Zionist Nazis and that Jews have never taken advantage of nor having killed any other Jews, then go right ahead and pretend all you like.

Are you suggesting that only Muslims are at fault for everything bad that has ever happened?

Are you suggesting that history never accounts for anything, and has no bearing upon current or future events?

Are you suggesting that governments as well as Boeing and our MIC have never lied to us nor having obfuscated anything in order to cover their mutual butts?

Do you think Rod Speed is right about everything and deserves to be worshiped even those he/she isn't even a real person?

Do you think history as interpreted by the victors is the only history that ever counts?
Rod Speed
2014-04-13 18:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by F Murtz
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Hell of a lot more than yours, fuckwit child.
In other words, you admit that each and
every passenger is worth at least one million,
Everyone can see for themselves that
you are lying thru your teeth, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
because you are worth so much more.
Everyone can see for themselves that
you are lying thru your teeth, as always.
Your overwhelming dis-concern for the passengers and flight-crew is noted.
Zionist Nazi Semites would however 100% agree with you.
But of course, you still do not seem to realize that Hitler was just
another puppet warlord of those truly in charge. No wonder that
you and others of your brown-nosed kind have always valued
other humans as being so worthless or expendable.
Mr Guth
Its Master Guth, actually.
Post by Brad Guth
Post by F Murtz
Why do you write such non aplicable meanderings with no basis?
He has a problem with ear to ear dog shit.
Post by Brad Guth
If you want to believe there were no such Zionist Nazis
No such animal.
Post by Brad Guth
and that Jews have never taken advantage of nor having killed any other
Jews,
Having fun thrashing that straw man ?
Post by Brad Guth
then go right ahead and pretend all you like.
He doesn't need your permission to do that, child.
Post by Brad Guth
Are you suggesting that only Muslims are at fault
for everything bad that has ever happened?
He never even mentioned muslims, fuckwit child.
Post by Brad Guth
Are you suggesting that history never accounts for anything,
and has no bearing upon current or future events?
Its unlikely to be the reason for the loss of the plane being discussed.
Post by Brad Guth
Are you suggesting that governments as well as Boeing
and our MIC have never lied to us nor having obfuscated
anything in order to cover their mutual butts?
Corse not. But there isnt a shred of evidence that that is
what is happening with the loss of that particular plane
and that will become clearer once the wreckage is found.
Post by Brad Guth
Do you think Rod Speed is right about everything
Unlikely given the times he has disagreed with me.
Post by Brad Guth
and deserves to be worshiped
Unlikely given the times he has disagreed with me.
Post by Brad Guth
even those he/she isn't even a real person?
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.
Post by Brad Guth
Do you think history as interpreted by the
victors is the only history that ever counts?
Irrelevant to what is being discussed, MH370.
F Murtz
2014-04-14 06:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by F Murtz
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Hell of a lot more than yours, fuckwit child.
In other words, you admit that each and
every passenger is worth at least one million,
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Post by Brad Guth
because you are worth so much more.
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your teeth, as
always.
Your overwhelming dis-concern for the passengers and flight-crew is noted.
Zionist Nazi Semites would however 100% agree with you.
But of course, you still do not seem to realize that Hitler was just
another puppet warlord of those truly in charge. No wonder that you and
others of your brown-nosed kind have always valued other humans as being
so worthless or expendable.
Mr Guth Why do you write such non aplicable meanderings with no basis?
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
If you want to believe there were no such Zionist Nazis and that Jews have
never taken advantage of nor having killed any other Jews, then go right
ahead and pretend all you like.
Are you suggesting that only Muslims are at fault for everything bad that
has ever happened?
Are you suggesting that history never accounts for anything, and has no
bearing upon current or future events?
Are you suggesting that governments as well as Boeing and our MIC have
never lied to us nor having obfuscated anything in order to cover their
mutual butts?
Do you think Rod Speed is right about everything and deserves to be
worshiped even those he/she isn't even a real person?
Do you think history as interpreted by the victors is the only history that ever counts?
May be you should bring martians or goths or Hannibal lecter or The Marquis
de Sade in to the conversation and tie them to Rod speed. Might make sense
to your addled brain.



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Paul Saccani
2014-04-14 07:59:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 13 Apr 2014 06:46:26 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
If you want to believe there were no such Zionist Nazis and that Jews have never
taken advantage of nor having killed any other Jews, then go right ahead and pretend all you like.
Are you suggesting that only Muslims are at fault for everything bad that has ever happened?
Are you suggesting that history never accounts for anything, and has no bearing upon current or future events?
Are you suggesting that governments as well as Boeing and our MIC have never lied
to us nor having obfuscated anything in order to cover their mutual butts?
Do you think Rod Speed is right about everything and deserves to be
worshiped even those he/she isn't even a real person?
Do you think history as interpreted by the victors is the only history that ever counts?
I think what he is suggesting is that you are fruit loop.

I think he is onto something there....
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Brad Guth
2014-04-14 13:41:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Saccani
On Sun, 13 Apr 2014 06:46:26 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
If you want to believe there were no such Zionist Nazis and that Jews have never
taken advantage of nor having killed any other Jews, then go right ahead and pretend all you like.
Are you suggesting that only Muslims are at fault for everything bad that has ever happened?
Are you suggesting that history never accounts for anything, and has no bearing upon current or future events?
Are you suggesting that governments as well as Boeing and our MIC have never lied
to us nor having obfuscated anything in order to cover their mutual butts?
Do you think Rod Speed is right about everything and deserves to be
worshiped even those he/she isn't even a real person?
Do you think history as interpreted by the victors is the only history that ever counts?
I think what he is suggesting is that you are fruit loop.
I think he is onto something there....
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
So, you and other Zionist Nazis all pretty much think alike. That's good to know.
F Murtz
2014-04-13 08:06:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Cees Binkhorst
http://iheartmatlab.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/analysis-of-suspected-mh370-pings.html
Wednesday, April 9, 2014
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
So this is a bit of a deviation from my normal MATLAB oriented posts.
In-fact MATLAB was not used once in this analysis!
I've been following the MH370 disappearance since it happened. With
such
a lack of confirmed information there have been a lot of interesting
theories discussed on multiple forums (Whirlpool and PPRUNE are a
couple
of interesting ones).
As I have a knowledge in acoustics (I am an Analyst / Software
Engineer
for an underwater acoustics company and I specialise in tracking
things
with pingers fitted to them), I've been trying to spread facts when I
know them and try and dispel myths.
Today I saw an interesting video from Sky News on a forum of the
suspected MH370 pings recorded by ADV Ocean Shield using the SUBSALV
I thought I would see if I could glean any information from the audio
in
the publicly released video. In particular I was wanting to look at
the
inter-ping interval to see how steady it was to try and determine if
the
noise is man-made or natural (ie marine mammal noise).
The signal is quite noisy with ambient ship noise and other transients
(scuffing of shoes on deck!) but a repeated click can be heard.
Process
Extracted the audio from the Youtube video using a web-based MP3
extractor
Opened the MP3 in Adobe Audition and trimmed the file to the time
segment corresponding to good audio (start time 41.787s from beginning
of file, duration 22.462 seconds)
Bandpass filtered the audio between 2kHz and 10kHz to remove LF
ambient noise (NOTE: the 'pinger' is audible at about 3.4kHz however
it
obviously has been demodulated down from the raw signal observed on
the
TPL-25 to bring into the audible range)
Filtered Time Domain Signal - Red ticks added at repeated 'ping' noise
A manual search of the waveform (zooming in tight where necessary)
was performed to measure the start time of each ping transient to
within
a couple of wavelengths
Results
The detection times of the pings are listed in the table below along
with some basic statistics.
Ping # Time (s) Interval (s)
1 0.758
2 1.861 1.103
3 2.964 1.103
4 4.067 1.103
5 5.171 1.104
6 6.274 1.103
7 7.38 1.106
8 8.486 1.106
9 9.592 1.106
10 10.696 1.104
11 11.801 1.105
12 12.907 1.106
13 14.014 1.107
14 15.12 1.106
15 16.226 1.106
16 17.333 1.107
18 19.549 1.108
19 20.657 1.108
20 21.764 1.107
Mean 1.10544
Std Dev 0.00172
As you can see, the ping interval is very stable with an average of
1.105s and standard deviation of less than 2ms.
This is incredibly stable over the 20 seconds that I've looked at and
very unlikely to be a marine mammal (ie beaked or sperm whale) which
DO
create broadband pulses at regular intervals, but I've never seen them
that regular.
This strongly suggests the recorded signal is man-made. Highly
probably
it is from the Underwater Locator Beacon due to the very close match
to
the expected ping rate of 0.9Hz or 1 ping per 1.111 seconds.
However it COULD be from other repetitive signal sources such as a
stray
echo sounder nearby; although that would be a soul crushing
disappointment to all onboard ADV Ocean Shield and the other involved
in
the search. Also.. WHAT CRAZY PERSON WOULD PUT A SOUNDER ON DURING AN
ACOUSTIC SEARCH!?!
One last thing to note about the observed ping intervals is that they
appear to increase slightly over time (order of 4ms). Whilst the
sample
set isn't long enough to show consistency, I see patterns like these
all
the time when tracking moving items fitted with pingers from
stationary
receivers (conceptually the same thing as the stationary pinger and
moving receiver on ADV Ocean Shield).
- The decreasing battery voltage is causing the ping interval to
increase. However it doesn't seem likely this phenomenon would be
observed over such a short time window
- The audio recording segment corresponds to when the towed pinger
locator has performed a Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and is now
opening in range from the source. When this happens a effect similar
to
Doppler occurs in that the time between successive pings appears to
increase as because between successive pings the receiver has moved
further away.
For the segment analysed it corresponds to a slant range increase of 6
metres over 20 seconds, or 0.3m/s or 0.6 knots. If the towed pinger
locator is transiting at 2 knots and the depth of the receiver is
known,
you could estimate a very rough range to the source by looking at the
vector component in the horizontal direction. (its late where I am but
I'll try and do some example calculations tomorrow)
Posted by Rodney Thomson at 12:45 AM
Thanks for that informative feedback.
The weak signal is perhaps due to those recorders being
still inside the main structure that's also partly into the
bottom silt, not to mentions miles from the surface and
offset to any direction by at least four times as many miles.
Try that last bit in english instead of gobbledegook.
Why bother,
Why indeed, everyone just flushes your shit and lies where it belongs.
Post by Brad Guth
BTW; You never did mention how many millions your life is worth.
Hell of a lot more than yours, fuckwit child.
In other words, you admit that each and every passenger is worth at least
one million, because you are worth so much more.
????



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Brad Guth
2014-04-13 13:49:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
In other words, you admit that each and every passenger is worth at least
one million, because you are worth so much more.
????
How many millions is your life worth?
F Murtz
2014-04-14 06:49:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
In other words, you admit that each and every passenger is worth at least
one million, because you are worth so much more.
????
How many millions is your life worth?
Still ???.
No connection to the subject.



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Brad Guth
2014-04-14 13:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by F Murtz
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
In other words, you admit that each and every passenger is worth at
least
one million, because you are worth so much more.
????
How many millions is your life worth?
Still ???.
No connection to the subject.
---
How is the value of human life not relevant to this MH370 fiasco?

My life is worth at least ten million.
Rod Speed
2014-04-14 18:31:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
My life is worth at least ten million.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.
Brad Guth
2014-04-14 18:47:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
My life is worth at least ten million.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.
According to your own claim of being superior to most everyone else on Earth, your worth should be at least $100M.

How much is the average MH370 passenger worth nowadays?
Rod Speed
2014-04-14 20:22:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
My life is worth at least ten million.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.
According to your own claim of being superior to most everyone else on
Earth,
Just another of your bare faced lies, you silly little pathological liar.
Post by Brad Guth
your worth should be at least $100M.
How much is the average MH370 passenger worth nowadays?
We'll see, depending on what gets proven negligence wise
with Malaysian Airlines and what sort of insurance Malaysian
Airlines has and how deep the pockets of their insurers are.

Most likely their insurers will just make an obscene gesture
in the general direction of Malaysian Airlines if they actually
do have any insurance at all and Malaysian Airlines will go
bust and the average MH370 passenger wont be worth a
cent to their relatives.
Brad Guth
2014-04-14 22:34:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
My life is worth at least ten million.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.
According to your own claim of being superior to most everyone else on
Earth,
Just another of your bare faced lies, you silly little pathological liar.
Post by Brad Guth
your worth should be at least $100M.
How much is the average MH370 passenger worth nowadays?
We'll see, depending on what gets proven negligence wise
with Malaysian Airlines and what sort of insurance Malaysian
Airlines has and how deep the pockets of their insurers are.
Most likely their insurers will just make an obscene gesture
in the general direction of Malaysian Airlines if they actually
do have any insurance at all and Malaysian Airlines will go
bust and the average MH370 passenger wont be worth a
cent to their relatives.
Usually the lawsuits will include the deepest pockets, which in this case will include Boeing, even if Boeing did nothing wrong. Governments and their partnership airlines can be sued and held accountable as based upon the tax revenue of future generations to come, just like Germany was held accountable for decades after whatever their SS Nazis and Hitler did (too bad they didn't go after the GW Bush family tree).
Rod Speed
2014-04-14 22:58:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
My life is worth at least ten million.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.
According to your own claim of being
superior to most everyone else on Earth,
Just another of your bare faced lies, you silly little pathological liar.
Post by Brad Guth
your worth should be at least $100M.
How much is the average MH370 passenger worth nowadays?
We'll see, depending on what gets proven negligence wise
with Malaysian Airlines and what sort of insurance Malaysian
Airlines has and how deep the pockets of their insurers are.
Most likely their insurers will just make an obscene gesture
in the general direction of Malaysian Airlines if they actually
do have any insurance at all and Malaysian Airlines will go
bust and the average MH370 passenger wont be worth a
cent to their relatives.
Usually the lawsuits will include the deepest pockets,
And even someone as stupid as you should have noticed from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
that that does not include Malaysian Airlines.
Post by Brad Guth
which in this case will include Boeing, even if Boeing did nothing wrong.
Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.

Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that
there wont be any lawsuit in the US with the loss of MH370,
particularly when it turns out that nothing in the plane failed
due to anything Boeing did, and that one of the pilots suicided
or Malaysian Airlines was actually stupid enough to allow some
woman with decent tits into the cockpit and who hijacked the plane.
Post by Brad Guth
Governments and their partnership airlines can
be sued and held accountable as based upon
the tax revenue of future generations to come,
Not in Malaysia they can't, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
just like Germany was held accountable for decades
after whatever their SS Nazis and Hitler did
Different legal system entirely, you pig ignorant fool.
Post by Brad Guth
(too bad they didn't go after the GW Bush family tree).
They didn't because that wasn't even legally possible,
you pig ignorant clown.
Brad Guth
2014-04-15 12:05:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
My life is worth at least ten million.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.
According to your own claim of being
superior to most everyone else on Earth,
Just another of your bare faced lies, you silly little pathological liar.
Post by Brad Guth
your worth should be at least $100M.
How much is the average MH370 passenger worth nowadays?
We'll see, depending on what gets proven negligence wise
with Malaysian Airlines and what sort of insurance Malaysian
Airlines has and how deep the pockets of their insurers are.
Most likely their insurers will just make an obscene gesture
in the general direction of Malaysian Airlines if they actually
do have any insurance at all and Malaysian Airlines will go
bust and the average MH370 passenger wont be worth a
cent to their relatives.
Usually the lawsuits will include the deepest pockets,
And even someone as stupid as you should have noticed from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
that that does not include Malaysian Airlines.
Post by Brad Guth
which in this case will include Boeing, even if Boeing did nothing wrong.
Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.
Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that
there wont be any lawsuit in the US with the loss of MH370,
particularly when it turns out that nothing in the plane failed
due to anything Boeing did, and that one of the pilots suicided
or Malaysian Airlines was actually stupid enough to allow some
woman with decent tits into the cockpit and who hijacked the plane.
Post by Brad Guth
Governments and their partnership airlines can
be sued and held accountable as based upon
the tax revenue of future generations to come,
Not in Malaysia they can't, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
just like Germany was held accountable for decades
after whatever their SS Nazis and Hitler did
Different legal system entirely, you pig ignorant fool.
Post by Brad Guth
(too bad they didn't go after the GW Bush family tree).
They didn't because that wasn't even legally possible,
you pig ignorant clown.
Actually, under DHS and their Patriot Act, the likes of GW Bush, Dick Cheney and Kissinger would all be found guilty of conspiring to commit crimes against humanity, in addition to violating many other common laws. Of course, you'd worship those three and as such would never convict them of anything regardless of the objective evidence stacked against them.

The NWO doesn't let just anyone get away with murder, but they will allow as many deaths of the lower 99.9999% caste as it takes, in order to cull 95% of humanity.
Rod Speed
2014-04-15 19:17:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
My life is worth at least ten million.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.
According to your own claim of being
superior to most everyone else on Earth,
Just another of your bare faced lies, you silly little pathological liar.
Post by Brad Guth
your worth should be at least $100M.
How much is the average MH370 passenger worth nowadays?
We'll see, depending on what gets proven negligence wise
with Malaysian Airlines and what sort of insurance Malaysian
Airlines has and how deep the pockets of their insurers are.
Most likely their insurers will just make an obscene gesture
in the general direction of Malaysian Airlines if they actually
do have any insurance at all and Malaysian Airlines will go
bust and the average MH370 passenger wont be worth a
cent to their relatives.
Usually the lawsuits will include the deepest pockets,
And even someone as stupid as you should have noticed from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
that that does not include Malaysian Airlines.
Post by Brad Guth
which in this case will include Boeing, even if Boeing did nothing wrong.
Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.
Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that
there wont be any lawsuit in the US with the loss of MH370,
particularly when it turns out that nothing in the plane failed
due to anything Boeing did, and that one of the pilots suicided
or Malaysian Airlines was actually stupid enough to allow some
woman with decent tits into the cockpit and who hijacked the plane.
Post by Brad Guth
Governments and their partnership airlines can
be sued and held accountable as based upon
the tax revenue of future generations to come,
Not in Malaysia they can't, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
just like Germany was held accountable for decades
after whatever their SS Nazis and Hitler did
Different legal system entirely, you pig ignorant fool.
Post by Brad Guth
(too bad they didn't go after the GW Bush family tree).
They didn't because that wasn't even legally possible,
you pig ignorant clown.
Actually, under DHS and their Patriot Act,
Which does not apply to what was done during WW2
by the Bushs of that era, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
the likes of GW Bush, Dick Cheney and Kissinger
Doesn't apply to anything Kissinger did, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
would all be found guilty of conspiring
to commit crimes against humanity,
No such provision in the Patriot Act, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
in addition to violating many other common laws.
Then you had better do the decent thing and set fire
to yourself in 'protest' on Capitol Hill or sumfin, child.
Post by Brad Guth
Of course, you'd worship those three
Even someone as stupid as you should be able
to use groups.google and see that I have done
the exact opposite, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
and as such would never convict them
of anything regardless of the objective
evidence stacked against them.
The NWO
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
doesn't let just anyone get away with murder,
but they will allow as many deaths of the
lower 99.9999% caste
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
as it takes, in order to cull 95% of humanity.
They clearly haven't culled you, you pig ignorant clown.
Brad Guth
2014-04-15 21:16:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Actually, under DHS and their Patriot Act,
Which does not apply to what was done during WW2
by the Bushs of that era, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
the likes of GW Bush, Dick Cheney and Kissinger
Doesn't apply to anything Kissinger did, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
would all be found guilty of conspiring
to commit crimes against humanity,
No such provision in the Patriot Act, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
in addition to violating many other common laws.
Then you had better do the decent thing and set fire
to yourself in 'protest' on Capitol Hill or sumfin, child.
Post by Brad Guth
Of course, you'd worship those three
Even someone as stupid as you should be able
to use groups.google and see that I have done
the exact opposite, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
and as such would never convict them
of anything regardless of the objective
evidence stacked against them.
The NWO
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
doesn't let just anyone get away with murder,
but they will allow as many deaths of the
lower 99.9999% caste
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
as it takes, in order to cull 95% of humanity.
They clearly haven't culled you, you pig ignorant clown.
How is yourself acting exactly like a Zionist Nazi, helping?

It's beginning to sound as though you had something to do with the demise of MH370.
Rod Speed
2014-04-15 21:31:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Actually, under DHS and their Patriot Act,
Which does not apply to what was done during WW2
by the Bushs of that era, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
the likes of GW Bush, Dick Cheney and Kissinger
Doesn't apply to anything Kissinger did, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
would all be found guilty of conspiring
to commit crimes against humanity,
No such provision in the Patriot Act, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
in addition to violating many other common laws.
Then you had better do the decent thing and set fire
to yourself in 'protest' on Capitol Hill or sumfin, child.
Post by Brad Guth
Of course, you'd worship those three
Even someone as stupid as you should be able
to use groups.google and see that I have done
the exact opposite, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
and as such would never convict them
of anything regardless of the objective
evidence stacked against them.
The NWO
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
doesn't let just anyone get away with murder,
but they will allow as many deaths of the
lower 99.9999% caste
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
as it takes, in order to cull 95% of humanity.
They clearly haven't culled you, you pig ignorant clown.
How is yourself acting exactly like a Zionist Nazi, helping?
By pointing out the terminal stupiditys in your shit, so
that anyone reading your shit will be aware that your
pig ignorant shit is just pig ignorant shit in the very
unlikely event that they can't work that out for themselves.
Post by Brad Guth
It's beginning to sound as though you had
something to do with the demise of MH370.
Bugger. Now that you have worked that
out, its curtains for you, child. Byeee...
Brad Guth
2014-04-15 21:38:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Actually, under DHS and their Patriot Act,
Which does not apply to what was done during WW2
by the Bushs of that era, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
the likes of GW Bush, Dick Cheney and Kissinger
Doesn't apply to anything Kissinger did, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
would all be found guilty of conspiring
to commit crimes against humanity,
No such provision in the Patriot Act, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
in addition to violating many other common laws.
Then you had better do the decent thing and set fire
to yourself in 'protest' on Capitol Hill or sumfin, child.
Post by Brad Guth
Of course, you'd worship those three
Even someone as stupid as you should be able
to use groups.google and see that I have done
the exact opposite, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
and as such would never convict them
of anything regardless of the objective
evidence stacked against them.
The NWO
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
doesn't let just anyone get away with murder,
but they will allow as many deaths of the
lower 99.9999% caste
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
as it takes, in order to cull 95% of humanity.
They clearly haven't culled you, you pig ignorant clown.
How is yourself acting exactly like a Zionist Nazi, helping?
By pointing out the terminal stupiditys in your shit, so
that anyone reading your shit will be aware that your
pig ignorant shit is just pig ignorant shit in the very
unlikely event that they can't work that out for themselves.
Post by Brad Guth
It's beginning to sound as though you had
something to do with the demise of MH370.
Bugger. Now that you have worked that
out, its curtains for you, child. Byeee...
Is there anything of human salvation worthy to Rod Speed?

I care about passengers and their flight-crew, whereas it seems you care about reinforcing the mainstream status-quo of keeping passengers as captive prisoners and devalued to boot as expendables.
Rod Speed
2014-04-15 22:27:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Actually, under DHS and their Patriot Act,
Which does not apply to what was done during WW2
by the Bushs of that era, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
the likes of GW Bush, Dick Cheney and Kissinger
Doesn't apply to anything Kissinger did, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
would all be found guilty of conspiring
to commit crimes against humanity,
No such provision in the Patriot Act, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
in addition to violating many other common laws.
Then you had better do the decent thing and set fire
to yourself in 'protest' on Capitol Hill or sumfin, child.
Post by Brad Guth
Of course, you'd worship those three
Even someone as stupid as you should be able
to use groups.google and see that I have done
the exact opposite, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
and as such would never convict them
of anything regardless of the objective
evidence stacked against them.
The NWO
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
doesn't let just anyone get away with murder,
but they will allow as many deaths of the
lower 99.9999% caste
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
as it takes, in order to cull 95% of humanity.
They clearly haven't culled you, you pig ignorant clown.
How is yourself acting exactly like a Zionist Nazi, helping?
By pointing out the terminal stupiditys in your shit, so
that anyone reading your shit will be aware that your
pig ignorant shit is just pig ignorant shit in the very
unlikely event that they can't work that out for themselves.
Post by Brad Guth
It's beginning to sound as though you had
something to do with the demise of MH370.
Bugger. Now that you have worked that
out, its curtains for you, child. Byeee...
Is there anything of human salvation worthy to Rod Speed?
Try that again in english when not completely drug crazed, child.
Post by Brad Guth
I care about passengers and their flight-crew,
But have so little clue about how to improve
things for any of them that the industry just
flushes your pig ignorant shit where it belongs
whenever any of it pours from your lard arse.
Post by Brad Guth
whereas it seems you care about reinforcing
the mainstream status-quo of keeping
passengers as captive prisoners
They are nothing even remotely like that and
are in fact free to fly with any operation that
they can see from the statistics does airline
safety a lot better than others do, and can
even get real radical and pick aircraft to fly
on which have one hell of a safety record too.
Post by Brad Guth
and devalued to boot as expendables.
Loons like you are that in spades, child.

We don't even keep you in locked wards
anymore. We let you go wherever you like
and hope that you will end up dead very
quickly.
Brad Guth
2014-04-16 01:46:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Actually, under DHS and their Patriot Act,
Which does not apply to what was done during WW2
by the Bushs of that era, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
the likes of GW Bush, Dick Cheney and Kissinger
Doesn't apply to anything Kissinger did, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
would all be found guilty of conspiring
to commit crimes against humanity,
No such provision in the Patriot Act, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
in addition to violating many other common laws.
Then you had better do the decent thing and set fire
to yourself in 'protest' on Capitol Hill or sumfin, child.
Post by Brad Guth
Of course, you'd worship those three
Even someone as stupid as you should be able
to use groups.google and see that I have done
the exact opposite, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
and as such would never convict them
of anything regardless of the objective
evidence stacked against them.
The NWO
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
doesn't let just anyone get away with murder,
but they will allow as many deaths of the
lower 99.9999% caste
No such animal, you pig ignorant clown.
Post by Brad Guth
as it takes, in order to cull 95% of humanity.
They clearly haven't culled you, you pig ignorant clown.
How is yourself acting exactly like a Zionist Nazi, helping?
By pointing out the terminal stupiditys in your shit, so
that anyone reading your shit will be aware that your
pig ignorant shit is just pig ignorant shit in the very
unlikely event that they can't work that out for themselves.
Post by Brad Guth
It's beginning to sound as though you had
something to do with the demise of MH370.
Bugger. Now that you have worked that
out, its curtains for you, child. Byeee...
Is there anything of human salvation worthy to Rod Speed?
Try that again in english when not completely drug crazed, child.
Post by Brad Guth
I care about passengers and their flight-crew,
But have so little clue about how to improve
things for any of them that the industry just
flushes your pig ignorant shit where it belongs
whenever any of it pours from your lard arse.
Post by Brad Guth
whereas it seems you care about reinforcing
the mainstream status-quo of keeping
passengers as captive prisoners
They are nothing even remotely like that and
are in fact free to fly with any operation that
they can see from the statistics does airline
safety a lot better than others do, and can
even get real radical and pick aircraft to fly
on which have one hell of a safety record too.
Post by Brad Guth
and devalued to boot as expendables.
Loons like you are that in spades, child.
We don't even keep you in locked wards
anymore. We let you go wherever you like
and hope that you will end up dead very
quickly.
Again, you don't give a tinkers damn what happens to passengers.
Paul Saccani
2014-04-16 08:57:03 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:16:53 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
It's beginning to sound as though you had something to do with the demise of MH370.
It has gone past beginning to sound like you have serious mental
issues.

You clearly are not merely ignorant, you are a full blown nutter.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Brad Guth
2014-04-16 17:03:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Saccani
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:16:53 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
It's beginning to sound as though you had something to do with the demise of MH370.
It has gone past beginning to sound like you have serious mental
issues.
You clearly are not merely ignorant, you are a full blown nutter.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
At least my concerns are for that of future passengers/prisoners that shouldn't be so devalued as you and others of your kind suggest.

I'm convinced that the latest versions of the 777 are measurably safer than the older ones that may or may not have been upgraded or properly serviced.
Rod Speed
2014-04-16 19:39:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:16:53 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
It's beginning to sound as though you had something to do with the demise of MH370.
It has gone past beginning to sound like you have serious mental
issues.
You clearly are not merely ignorant, you are a full blown nutter.
At least my concerns are for that of future passengers/prisoners
But you are so completely pig ignorant that you have nothing
useful what so ever to contribute to that particular question.
Post by Brad Guth
that shouldn't be so devalued as you and others of your kind suggest.
More of your bare faced lies.
Post by Brad Guth
I'm convinced that the latest versions of the 777
are measurably safer than the older ones that may
or may not have been upgraded or properly serviced.
You are free to never fly on any of the older ones if you like.

You are also free to never fly in a heavy again and to end up
dead much sooner because the alternatives are much more risky.
Paul Saccani
2014-04-17 05:18:40 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:03:28 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:16:53 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
It's beginning to sound as though you had something to do with the demise of MH370.
It has gone past beginning to sound like you have serious mental
issues.
You clearly are not merely ignorant, you are a full blown nutter.
At least my concerns are for that of future passengers/prisoners
that shouldn't be so devalued as you and others of your kind suggest.
If you were really concerned, you would not be making pig ignorant
public remarks, instead you would have tried to at least have the
first clue about what you are talking about.
Post by Brad Guth
I'm convinced that the latest versions of the 777 are measurably safer than the
older ones that may or may not have been upgraded or properly serviced.
I'm convinced that you wouldn't have a clue about this.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Brad Guth
2014-04-18 14:42:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Saccani
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:03:28 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:16:53 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
It's beginning to sound as though you had something to do with the demise of MH370.
It has gone past beginning to sound like you have serious mental
issues.
You clearly are not merely ignorant, you are a full blown nutter.
At least my concerns are for that of future passengers/prisoners
that shouldn't be so devalued as you and others of your kind suggest.
If you were really concerned, you would not be making pig ignorant
public remarks, instead you would have tried to at least have the
first clue about what you are talking about.
Post by Brad Guth
I'm convinced that the latest versions of the 777 are measurably safer than the
older ones that may or may not have been upgraded or properly serviced.
I'm convinced that you wouldn't have a clue about this.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
With as little as a 1% added ticket cost, modern airlines could provide this necessary technology for their passengers. You and Rod simply fail to value passengers.

Are you blindfolded and locked in as a prisoner when taking a train, cab or bus?
Rod Speed
2014-04-18 19:37:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:03:28 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:16:53 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
It's beginning to sound as though you had something to do with the
demise of MH370.
It has gone past beginning to sound like you have serious mental
issues.
You clearly are not merely ignorant, you are a full blown nutter.
At least my concerns are for that of future passengers/prisoners
that shouldn't be so devalued as you and others of your kind suggest.
If you were really concerned, you would not be making pig ignorant
public remarks, instead you would have tried to at least have the
first clue about what you are talking about.
Post by Brad Guth
I'm convinced that the latest versions of the 777 are measurably safer than the
older ones that may or may not have been upgraded or properly serviced.
I'm convinced that you wouldn't have a clue about this.
With as little as a 1% added ticket cost,
That is a pig ignorant lie with very low fare operations like Malaysian
Airlines.
Post by Brad Guth
modern airlines could provide this necessary technology for their
passengers.
You and Rod simply fail to value passengers.
Another bare faced lie, Goebbels.
Post by Brad Guth
Are you blindfolded and locked in as a
prisoner when taking a train, cab or bus?
Yep, and with taxis and buses, have
a MUCH higher risk of dying as well.
Brad Guth
2014-04-18 20:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:03:28 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:16:53 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
It's beginning to sound as though you had something to do with the
demise of MH370.
It has gone past beginning to sound like you have serious mental
issues.
You clearly are not merely ignorant, you are a full blown nutter.
At least my concerns are for that of future passengers/prisoners
that shouldn't be so devalued as you and others of your kind suggest.
If you were really concerned, you would not be making pig ignorant
public remarks, instead you would have tried to at least have the
first clue about what you are talking about.
Post by Brad Guth
I'm convinced that the latest versions of the 777 are measurably safer
than the
older ones that may or may not have been upgraded or properly serviced.
I'm convinced that you wouldn't have a clue about this.
With as little as a 1% added ticket cost,
That is a pig ignorant lie with very low fare operations like Malaysian
Airlines.
Post by Brad Guth
modern airlines could provide this necessary technology for their
passengers.
You and Rod simply fail to value passengers.
Another bare faced lie, Goebbels.
Post by Brad Guth
Are you blindfolded and locked in as a
prisoner when taking a train, cab or bus?
Yep, and with taxis and buses, have
a MUCH higher risk of dying as well.
Even if MH370 was flying with a full capacity load of the most qualified captains, first officers and/or command wing pilots going to/from their international convention, as passengers they'd be worthless and fully death, dumb and expendable under your best management skills, whereas under my wing they'd know exactly what was happening and able to contact ground control as well as any other authorities, friends and family.

If need be, ground control could lock/unlock that security door without the pilots or hijacker(s) even being wise to that happening.
Rod Speed
2014-04-18 22:50:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Are you blindfolded and locked in as a
prisoner when taking a train, cab or bus?
Yep, and with taxis and buses, have
a MUCH higher risk of dying as well.
Even if MH370 was flying with a full capacity
load of the most qualified captains, first
officers and/or command wing pilots
No such animal.
Post by Brad Guth
going to/from their international convention, as
passengers they'd be worthless and fully death, dumb
and expendable under your best management skills,
Try that again in english when not completely blotto/drug crazed.
Post by Brad Guth
whereas under my wing
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
they'd know exactly what was happening
Pigs arse they would. Even if they had the full
set of data that the FDR is getting, they wouldn't.
Post by Brad Guth
and able to contact ground control
And there would be sweet fuck all anyone at
'ground control' would be able to do about it.
Post by Brad Guth
as well as any other authorities,
And there would be sweet fuck
all they could do about it either.
Post by Brad Guth
friends and family.
They can do that right now in the best equipped heavys.
Post by Brad Guth
If need be, ground control could lock/unlock that security door
And so could any fuckwit child in their bedroom. No thanks.
Post by Brad Guth
without the pilots or hijacker(s) even being wise to that happening.
Fat lot of good that would be when the pilot choosing
to suicide that way knows that that is possible and just
flys the plane into the ground at the last minute so that
there would not be enough time for anyone in the main
cabin to decide that was happening, notify someone on
the ground that that was happening, get them to agree
that that is what is happening, get authorisation to unlock
the door, unlock the door, have someone storm thru the
door and stop the pilot from suiciding etc etc etc.

You are completely off with the fucking fairys, Guth.
Brad Guth
2014-04-18 23:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Are you blindfolded and locked in as a
prisoner when taking a train, cab or bus?
Yep, and with taxis and buses, have
a MUCH higher risk of dying as well.
Even if MH370 was flying with a full capacity
load of the most qualified captains, first
officers and/or command wing pilots
No such animal.
Post by Brad Guth
going to/from their international convention, as
passengers they'd be worthless and fully death, dumb
and expendable under your best management skills,
Try that again in english when not completely blotto/drug crazed.
Post by Brad Guth
whereas under my wing
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
they'd know exactly what was happening
Pigs arse they would. Even if they had the full
set of data that the FDR is getting, they wouldn't.
Post by Brad Guth
and able to contact ground control
And there would be sweet fuck all anyone at
'ground control' would be able to do about it.
Post by Brad Guth
as well as any other authorities,
And there would be sweet fuck
all they could do about it either.
Post by Brad Guth
friends and family.
They can do that right now in the best equipped heavys.
Post by Brad Guth
If need be, ground control could lock/unlock that security door
And so could any fuckwit child in their bedroom. No thanks.
Post by Brad Guth
without the pilots or hijacker(s) even being wise to that happening.
Fat lot of good that would be when the pilot choosing
to suicide that way knows that that is possible and just
flys the plane into the ground at the last minute so that
there would not be enough time for anyone in the main
cabin to decide that was happening, notify someone on
the ground that that was happening, get them to agree
that that is what is happening, get authorisation to unlock
the door, unlock the door, have someone storm thru the
door and stop the pilot from suiciding etc etc etc.
You are completely off with the fucking fairys, Guth.
According you yourself, we can no longer trust even the most qualified, best physically fit and proper acting pilots, and thereby all passengers and their flight crew are not only prisoners but fully expendable because they have no rights nor value whatsoever.

What's the name of your airline?
Rod Speed
2014-04-19 02:08:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Are you blindfolded and locked in as a
prisoner when taking a train, cab or bus?
Yep, and with taxis and buses, have
a MUCH higher risk of dying as well.
Even if MH370 was flying with a full capacity
load of the most qualified captains, first
officers and/or command wing pilots
No such animal.
Post by Brad Guth
going to/from their international convention, as
passengers they'd be worthless and fully death, dumb
and expendable under your best management skills,
Try that again in english when not completely blotto/drug crazed.
Post by Brad Guth
whereas under my wing
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
they'd know exactly what was happening
Pigs arse they would. Even if they had the full
set of data that the FDR is getting, they wouldn't.
Post by Brad Guth
and able to contact ground control
And there would be sweet fuck all anyone at
'ground control' would be able to do about it.
Post by Brad Guth
as well as any other authorities,
And there would be sweet fuck
all they could do about it either.
Post by Brad Guth
friends and family.
They can do that right now in the best equipped heavys.
Post by Brad Guth
If need be, ground control could lock/unlock that security door
And so could any fuckwit child in their bedroom. No thanks.
Post by Brad Guth
without the pilots or hijacker(s) even being wise to that happening.
Fat lot of good that would be when the pilot choosing
to suicide that way knows that that is possible and just
flys the plane into the ground at the last minute so that
there would not be enough time for anyone in the main
cabin to decide that was happening, notify someone on
the ground that that was happening, get them to agree
that that is what is happening, get authorisation to unlock
the door, unlock the door, have someone storm thru the
door and stop the pilot from suiciding etc etc etc.
You are completely off with the fucking fairys, Guth.
According you yourself,
And according to the official investigation
of the loss of at least FOUR heavys
Post by Brad Guth
we can no longer trust even the most qualified,
best physically fit and proper acting pilots, and
thereby all passengers and their flight crew are
not only prisoners but fully expendable because
they have no rights nor value whatsoever.
That last is just another of your bare faced lies.

I have told you repeatedly that they have always
had the right to never fly at all and to take much
more risk of dying by using some other mode of
transport and that they have the right to stay
home and cower under the bed if they prefer too.
Post by Brad Guth
What's the name of your airline?
If I told you that I would have to kill you, fuckwit child.
Brad Guth
2014-04-20 15:38:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Are you blindfolded and locked in as a
prisoner when taking a train, cab or bus?
Yep, and with taxis and buses, have
a MUCH higher risk of dying as well.
Even if MH370 was flying with a full capacity
load of the most qualified captains, first
officers and/or command wing pilots
No such animal.
Post by Brad Guth
going to/from their international convention, as
passengers they'd be worthless and fully death, dumb
and expendable under your best management skills,
Try that again in english when not completely blotto/drug crazed.
Post by Brad Guth
whereas under my wing
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
they'd know exactly what was happening
Pigs arse they would. Even if they had the full
set of data that the FDR is getting, they wouldn't.
Post by Brad Guth
and able to contact ground control
And there would be sweet fuck all anyone at
'ground control' would be able to do about it.
Post by Brad Guth
as well as any other authorities,
And there would be sweet fuck
all they could do about it either.
Post by Brad Guth
friends and family.
They can do that right now in the best equipped heavys.
Post by Brad Guth
If need be, ground control could lock/unlock that security door
And so could any fuckwit child in their bedroom. No thanks.
Post by Brad Guth
without the pilots or hijacker(s) even being wise to that happening.
Fat lot of good that would be when the pilot choosing
to suicide that way knows that that is possible and just
flys the plane into the ground at the last minute so that
there would not be enough time for anyone in the main
cabin to decide that was happening, notify someone on
the ground that that was happening, get them to agree
that that is what is happening, get authorisation to unlock
the door, unlock the door, have someone storm thru the
door and stop the pilot from suiciding etc etc etc.
You are completely off with the fucking fairys, Guth.
According you yourself,
And according to the official investigation
of the loss of at least FOUR heavys
Post by Brad Guth
we can no longer trust even the most qualified,
best physically fit and proper acting pilots, and
thereby all passengers and their flight crew are
not only prisoners but fully expendable because
they have no rights nor value whatsoever.
That last is just another of your bare faced lies.
I have told you repeatedly that they have always
had the right to never fly at all and to take much
more risk of dying by using some other mode of
transport and that they have the right to stay
home and cower under the bed if they prefer too.
Post by Brad Guth
What's the name of your airline?
If I told you that I would have to kill you, fuckwit child.
Once again, you failed the basic human test.

If you don't care about the welfare of passengers, and the only thing you truly care about is airline profit margins, then perhaps you should not even try to pretend that you care about any other humans.

How is being a prisoner-passenger with no rights a good thing, especially when most passengers would only do the right thing if they always knew exactly where their aircraft was and could reliably communicate with ground authorities about any number of issues?
Rod Speed
2014-04-20 19:14:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Are you blindfolded and locked in as a
prisoner when taking a train, cab or bus?
Yep, and with taxis and buses, have
a MUCH higher risk of dying as well.
Even if MH370 was flying with a full capacity
load of the most qualified captains, first
officers and/or command wing pilots
No such animal.
Post by Brad Guth
going to/from their international convention, as
passengers they'd be worthless and fully death, dumb
and expendable under your best management skills,
Try that again in english when not completely blotto/drug crazed.
Post by Brad Guth
whereas under my wing
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
they'd know exactly what was happening
Pigs arse they would. Even if they had the full
set of data that the FDR is getting, they wouldn't.
Post by Brad Guth
and able to contact ground control
And there would be sweet fuck all anyone at
'ground control' would be able to do about it.
Post by Brad Guth
as well as any other authorities,
And there would be sweet fuck
all they could do about it either.
Post by Brad Guth
friends and family.
They can do that right now in the best equipped heavys.
Post by Brad Guth
If need be, ground control could lock/unlock that security door
And so could any fuckwit child in their bedroom. No thanks.
Post by Brad Guth
without the pilots or hijacker(s) even being wise to that happening.
Fat lot of good that would be when the pilot choosing
to suicide that way knows that that is possible and just
flys the plane into the ground at the last minute so that
there would not be enough time for anyone in the main
cabin to decide that was happening, notify someone on
the ground that that was happening, get them to agree
that that is what is happening, get authorisation to unlock
the door, unlock the door, have someone storm thru the
door and stop the pilot from suiciding etc etc etc.
You are completely off with the fucking fairys, Guth.
According you yourself,
And according to the official investigation
of the loss of at least FOUR heavys
Post by Brad Guth
we can no longer trust even the most qualified,
best physically fit and proper acting pilots, and
thereby all passengers and their flight crew are
not only prisoners but fully expendable because
they have no rights nor value whatsoever.
That last is just another of your bare faced lies.
I have told you repeatedly that they have always
had the right to never fly at all and to take much
more risk of dying by using some other mode of
transport and that they have the right to stay
home and cower under the bed if they prefer too.
Post by Brad Guth
What's the name of your airline?
If I told you that I would have to kill you, fuckwit child.
Once again, you failed the basic human test.
We'll see...
Post by Brad Guth
If you don't care about the welfare of passengers,
The industry does and that is why the fatality rate
keeps dropping all the time, even while the number
of people flying keeps increasing all the time.

Same thing happens with cars too, for the same reason.
Post by Brad Guth
and the only thing you truly care about is airline profit margins,
That clearly is not the case with those that regulate the industry.
Post by Brad Guth
then perhaps you should not even try to pretend
that you care about any other humans.
Having fun thrashing that straw man, child ?
Post by Brad Guth
How is being a prisoner-passenger with no rights
Just another of your pathetic little
pig ignorant fantasys/bare faced lies.

You ALWAYS have the right to never fly again,
except with people like you who do are very
occasionally forced to fly wearing handcuffs
when you are moved from one institution
to another whether you like that or not.
Post by Brad Guth
a good thing,
Having fun thrashing that straw man ?
Post by Brad Guth
especially when most passengers would only do the
right thing if they always knew exactly where their
aircraft was and could reliably communicate with
ground authorities about any number of issues?
Because systems like that have to be designed to
handle SOME passengers will do in that situation
and have to be disableable in case of failure of
that communications system is putting the plane
at risk and that means that it will always be
possible for some arsehole who is determined
to kill himself and take hundreds of passengers
with him can turn it off too. So what you would
like to see mandated on all heavys just is not
even possible, even if the cost is not considered.
Paul Saccani
2014-04-19 13:52:43 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:50:18 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Even if MH370 was flying with a full capacity load of the most qualified ca=
ptains, first officers and/or command wing pilots going to/from their inter=
national convention, as passengers they'd be worthless and fully death, dum=
b and expendable under your best management skills, whereas under my wing t=
hey'd know exactly what was happening and able to contact ground control as=
well as any other authorities, friends and family.
Unlikely - and it would be most counterproductive of me to explain
why.
If need be, ground control could lock/unlock that security door without the=
pilots or hijacker(s) even being wise to that happening.
The problem is, you haven't fully thought this trough. What you want
to do is insert a vulnerability that is much, much worse than the
problem you want to deal with.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Brad Guth
2014-04-19 14:43:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Saccani
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:50:18 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Even if MH370 was flying with a full capacity load of the most qualified ca=
ptains, first officers and/or command wing pilots going to/from their inter=
national convention, as passengers they'd be worthless and fully death, dum=
b and expendable under your best management skills, whereas under my wing t=
hey'd know exactly what was happening and able to contact ground control as=
well as any other authorities, friends and family.
Unlikely - and it would be most counterproductive of me to explain
why.
If need be, ground control could lock/unlock that security door without the=
pilots or hijacker(s) even being wise to that happening.
The problem is, you haven't fully thought this trough. What you want
to do is insert a vulnerability that is much, much worse than the
problem you want to deal with.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Your plan of essentially doing nothing on behalf of passengers (aka prisoners), is noted.
Paul Saccani
2014-04-19 15:02:19 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:43:54 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
Your plan of essentially doing nothing on behalf of passengers (aka prisoners), is noted.
Your notion that it is better to do something harmful than to consider
whether it is a good idea isn't noted. It is laughed at.

With derision.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Brad Guth
2014-04-19 15:45:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Saccani
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:43:54 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
Your plan of essentially doing nothing on behalf of passengers (aka prisoners), is noted.
Your notion that it is better to do something harmful than to consider
whether it is a good idea isn't noted. It is laughed at.
With derision.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Everything I've suggested would benefit the passengers, cargo, flight crews and the airlines. Even Boeing would directly benefit.

How is changing nothing, better?
Rod Speed
2014-04-19 20:08:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:43:54 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
Your plan of essentially doing nothing on behalf of passengers (aka
prisoners), is noted.
Your notion that it is better to do something harmful than to consider
whether it is a good idea isn't noted. It is laughed at.
With derision.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Everything I've suggested would benefit the passengers,
Bullshit. Most obviously with a full multiple feed from the
cockpit to the passengers which can not be turned off by
the pilots. When the shit does hit the fan spectacularly in
the cockpit, as it will inevitably continue to do occasionally
like with AF477, that does not benefit the pax at all when
it can only produce mass panic amongst the passengers
and see the crew have a much harder problem to deal with
than they would have without the video and data feed.

There is absolutely nothing anyone outside the aircraft
can do about the problem in the plane quickly enough
to have avoided the result they got. And even your other
terminally stupid proposal to allow full control of the
aircraft from the ground with the pilots in the plane
locked out completely would not have been possible
quickly enough to have saved the plane and its passengers.
Post by Brad Guth
cargo, flight crews and the airlines.
Even Boeing would directly benefit.
Bullshit.
Post by Brad Guth
How is changing nothing, better?
It avoids the very significant risk of some complete
arsehole outside the plane getting full control of
the plane regardless of what the pilots want to
happen, fly the plane into some dramatic target
like the twin towers and do another 9/11 remotely,
without any possibility of being able to keep track
of who is on the plane and any attempt to keep
those with known terrorist associations of the plane.

And no one is proposing nothing be changed,
anyone with even half a clue knows that ADS-B
is becoming more widely used and will provide
much better information on where a particular
plane has ended up if the shit does hit the fan
as it will inevitably continue to do at times.

And adding the capability to feed what goes
into the FDR and CVR now via some satellite
once the shit has hit the fan in the plane would
certainly help with the difficulty of finding the
CVR and FDR, at least providing the most
important information immediately.

Its just not feasible to feed all that stuff and
the multiple video channels to the ground
all the time the plane is not on the ground,
that would be much too expensive in satellite
bandwidth requirement to be practical currently.
Paul Saccani
2014-04-20 09:39:12 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:45:37 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 07:43:54 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Post by Brad Guth
Your plan of essentially doing nothing on behalf of passengers (aka prisoners), is noted.
Your notion that it is better to do something harmful than to consider
whether it is a good idea isn't noted. It is laughed at.
With derision.
Everything I've suggested would benefit the passengers, cargo, flight crews and the airlines. Even Boeing would directly benefit.
No. You have failed to consider your suggestions fully. You don't
appear able to comprehend that most of your suggestions are far more
dangerous than doing nothing.
Post by Brad Guth
How is changing nothing, better?
Pretty easy, by not being worse than the original "problem".
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Rod Speed
2014-04-19 20:16:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:50:18 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
Even if MH370 was flying with a full capacity load of the most qualified ca=
ptains, first officers and/or command wing pilots going to/from their inter=
national convention, as passengers they'd be worthless and fully death, dum=
b and expendable under your best management skills, whereas under my wing t=
hey'd know exactly what was happening and able to contact ground control as=
well as any other authorities, friends and family.
Unlikely - and it would be most counterproductive of me to explain
why.
If need be, ground control could lock/unlock that security door without the=
pilots or hijacker(s) even being wise to that happening.
The problem is, you haven't fully thought this trough. What you want
to do is insert a vulnerability that is much, much worse than the
problem you want to deal with.
Your plan of essentially doing nothing
on behalf of passengers (aka prisoners),
Just another of your bare faced lie.

He in fact does not propose to do nothing and has in
fact proposed some ways of finding the remains quicker.
That may at least in theory help some passengers who
do not get killed when it hits the ground.
Post by Brad Guth
is noted.
WayPoint
2014-04-15 12:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
particularly when it turns out that nothing in the plane failed
due to anything Boeing did, and that one of the pilots suicided
or Malaysian Airlines was actually stupid enough to allow some
woman with decent tits into the cockpit and who hijacked the plane.
There's that "hijacker with big tits" thang agin'.

At least you said woman this time - gender was unspecified last time you
mentioned it. ;-P
Rod Speed
2014-04-15 19:44:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by WayPoint
Post by Rod Speed
particularly when it turns out that nothing in the plane failed
due to anything Boeing did, and that one of the pilots suicided
or Malaysian Airlines was actually stupid enough to allow some
woman with decent tits into the cockpit and who hijacked the plane.
There's that "hijacker with big tits" thang agin'.
At least you said woman this time - gender was
unspecified last time you mentioned it. ;-P
I assumed even someone as stupid as you should
realise that it is only women or transvestites that
have big tits.

When it became clear that you actually are that stupid,
I chose to make it clear enough even for the likes of you.
Paul Saccani
2014-04-17 14:02:26 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 06:22:42 +1000, "Rod Speed"
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
How much is the average MH370 passenger worth nowadays?
We'll see, depending on what gets proven negligence wise
with Malaysian Airlines and what sort of insurance Malaysian
Airlines has and how deep the pockets of their insurers are.
Most likely their insurers will just make an obscene gesture
in the general direction of Malaysian Airlines if they actually
do have any insurance at all and Malaysian Airlines will go
bust and the average MH370 passenger wont be worth a
cent to their relatives.
It's a pretty good policy. It has already paid out US$100 million for
the hull loss (missing two days is presumed destroyed under the
policy). Allianz and Lloyd's has the greatest portion of the
coverage, via reinsurance.

The insurance policy is with a subsidiary of MAS, Allianz Malaysia,
but as you know, the risks get distributed all over the world.

The hardship payments that MAS have made to families are not covered
by insurance and have no relationship to any future payout.

The head policy covers all risk at the end of the day, with coverage
for war and terrorism included.

The reinsurance is divided between two risks "hull and liability "
and "Hull War and Allied Perils", with Allianz Global Corporate &
Specialty and Lloyd of London's unit, Atrium respectively dealing with
the two categories as the lead insurers. As the cause is not yet
known, they have split the payout 50/50 between themselves.

It is likely that the total payout will be less than $US450 million,
possibly much less, dependant on the cause. Or what the courts think
the cause is.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Brad Guth
2014-04-17 15:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Saccani
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 06:22:42 +1000, "Rod Speed"
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
How much is the average MH370 passenger worth nowadays?
We'll see, depending on what gets proven negligence wise
with Malaysian Airlines and what sort of insurance Malaysian
Airlines has and how deep the pockets of their insurers are.
Most likely their insurers will just make an obscene gesture
in the general direction of Malaysian Airlines if they actually
do have any insurance at all and Malaysian Airlines will go
bust and the average MH370 passenger wont be worth a
cent to their relatives.
It's a pretty good policy. It has already paid out US$100 million for
the hull loss (missing two days is presumed destroyed under the
policy). Allianz and Lloyd's has the greatest portion of the
coverage, via reinsurance.
The insurance policy is with a subsidiary of MAS, Allianz Malaysia,
but as you know, the risks get distributed all over the world.
The hardship payments that MAS have made to families are not covered
by insurance and have no relationship to any future payout.
The head policy covers all risk at the end of the day, with coverage
for war and terrorism included.
The reinsurance is divided between two risks "hull and liability "
and "Hull War and Allied Perils", with Allianz Global Corporate &
Specialty and Lloyd of London's unit, Atrium respectively dealing with
the two categories as the lead insurers. As the cause is not yet
known, they have split the payout 50/50 between themselves.
It is likely that the total payout will be less than $US450 million,
possibly much less, dependant on the cause. Or what the courts think
the cause is.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
In other words, once again the flight crew and passengers as airline prisoners are expendables with little if any tangible value.

I should hope lawyers taking wrongful deaths into full account get a minimum settlement of one million per passenger, as otherwise the owners and investors of such dysfunctional airlines will not change for the better as long as passengers and their flight crew are expendable.
Rod Speed
2014-04-17 19:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 06:22:42 +1000, "Rod Speed"
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
How much is the average MH370 passenger worth nowadays?
We'll see, depending on what gets proven negligence wise
with Malaysian Airlines and what sort of insurance Malaysian
Airlines has and how deep the pockets of their insurers are.
Most likely their insurers will just make an obscene gesture
in the general direction of Malaysian Airlines if they actually
do have any insurance at all and Malaysian Airlines will go
bust and the average MH370 passenger wont be worth a
cent to their relatives.
It's a pretty good policy. It has already paid out US$100 million for
the hull loss (missing two days is presumed destroyed under the
policy). Allianz and Lloyd's has the greatest portion of the
coverage, via reinsurance.
The insurance policy is with a subsidiary of MAS, Allianz Malaysia,
but as you know, the risks get distributed all over the world.
The hardship payments that MAS have made to families are not covered
by insurance and have no relationship to any future payout.
The head policy covers all risk at the end of the day, with coverage
for war and terrorism included.
The reinsurance is divided between two risks "hull and liability "
and "Hull War and Allied Perils", with Allianz Global Corporate &
Specialty and Lloyd of London's unit, Atrium respectively dealing with
the two categories as the lead insurers. As the cause is not yet
known, they have split the payout 50/50 between themselves.
It is likely that the total payout will be less than $US450 million,
possibly much less, dependant on the cause. Or what the courts think
the cause is.
In other words, once again the flight crew and passengers as
airline prisoners are expendables with little if any tangible value.
If you don't like that, you are always free to never ever fly again if
you have ever actually done that at all, and end up with a much
higher risk to your pathetic excuse for a 'life' and a MUCH lower value
placed on it, like ZERO, which is entirely appropriate in your case.
Post by Brad Guth
I should hope lawyers taking wrongful deaths into full account
get a minimum settlement of one million per passenger,
Fat lot of use that is when the operation getting sued goes broke.
Post by Brad Guth
as otherwise the owners and investors of such dysfunctional
airlines will not change for the better as long as passengers
and their flight crew are expendable.
Sending them broke that way changes nothing, they will be
soon replaced by just another operation even more dodgy
than the one that just went bust.
Brad Guth
2014-04-18 14:46:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 06:22:42 +1000, "Rod Speed"
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
How much is the average MH370 passenger worth nowadays?
We'll see, depending on what gets proven negligence wise
with Malaysian Airlines and what sort of insurance Malaysian
Airlines has and how deep the pockets of their insurers are.
Most likely their insurers will just make an obscene gesture
in the general direction of Malaysian Airlines if they actually
do have any insurance at all and Malaysian Airlines will go
bust and the average MH370 passenger wont be worth a
cent to their relatives.
It's a pretty good policy. It has already paid out US$100 million for
the hull loss (missing two days is presumed destroyed under the
policy). Allianz and Lloyd's has the greatest portion of the
coverage, via reinsurance.
The insurance policy is with a subsidiary of MAS, Allianz Malaysia,
but as you know, the risks get distributed all over the world.
The hardship payments that MAS have made to families are not covered
by insurance and have no relationship to any future payout.
The head policy covers all risk at the end of the day, with coverage
for war and terrorism included.
The reinsurance is divided between two risks "hull and liability "
and "Hull War and Allied Perils", with Allianz Global Corporate &
Specialty and Lloyd of London's unit, Atrium respectively dealing with
the two categories as the lead insurers. As the cause is not yet
known, they have split the payout 50/50 between themselves.
It is likely that the total payout will be less than $US450 million,
possibly much less, dependant on the cause. Or what the courts think
the cause is.
In other words, once again the flight crew and passengers as
airline prisoners are expendables with little if any tangible value.
If you don't like that, you are always free to never ever fly again if
you have ever actually done that at all, and end up with a much
higher risk to your pathetic excuse for a 'life' and a MUCH lower value
placed on it, like ZERO, which is entirely appropriate in your case.
Post by Brad Guth
I should hope lawyers taking wrongful deaths into full account
get a minimum settlement of one million per passenger,
Fat lot of use that is when the operation getting sued goes broke.
Post by Brad Guth
as otherwise the owners and investors of such dysfunctional
airlines will not change for the better as long as passengers
and their flight crew are expendable.
Sending them broke that way changes nothing, they will be
soon replaced by just another operation even more dodgy
than the one that just went bust.
Money greedy people (like those you worship), only respond when it's directly costing them, and especially when that cost can not be passed along to the next generation of passengers or even the cost of air freight.
Rod Speed
2014-04-18 19:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Paul Saccani
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 06:22:42 +1000, "Rod Speed"
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
How much is the average MH370 passenger worth nowadays?
We'll see, depending on what gets proven negligence wise
with Malaysian Airlines and what sort of insurance Malaysian
Airlines has and how deep the pockets of their insurers are.
Most likely their insurers will just make an obscene gesture
in the general direction of Malaysian Airlines if they actually
do have any insurance at all and Malaysian Airlines will go
bust and the average MH370 passenger wont be worth a
cent to their relatives.
It's a pretty good policy. It has already paid out US$100 million for
the hull loss (missing two days is presumed destroyed under the
policy). Allianz and Lloyd's has the greatest portion of the
coverage, via reinsurance.
The insurance policy is with a subsidiary of MAS, Allianz Malaysia,
but as you know, the risks get distributed all over the world.
The hardship payments that MAS have made to families are not covered
by insurance and have no relationship to any future payout.
The head policy covers all risk at the end of the day, with coverage
for war and terrorism included.
The reinsurance is divided between two risks "hull and liability "
and "Hull War and Allied Perils", with Allianz Global Corporate &
Specialty and Lloyd of London's unit, Atrium respectively dealing with
the two categories as the lead insurers. As the cause is not yet
known, they have split the payout 50/50 between themselves.
It is likely that the total payout will be less than $US450 million,
possibly much less, dependant on the cause. Or what the courts think
the cause is.
In other words, once again the flight crew and passengers as
airline prisoners are expendables with little if any tangible value.
If you don't like that, you are always free to never ever fly again if
you have ever actually done that at all, and end up with a much
higher risk to your pathetic excuse for a 'life' and a MUCH lower value
placed on it, like ZERO, which is entirely appropriate in your case.
Post by Brad Guth
I should hope lawyers taking wrongful deaths into full account
get a minimum settlement of one million per passenger,
Fat lot of use that is when the operation getting sued goes broke.
Post by Brad Guth
as otherwise the owners and investors of such dysfunctional
airlines will not change for the better as long as passengers
and their flight crew are expendable.
Sending them broke that way changes nothing, they will be
soon replaced by just another operation even more dodgy
than the one that just went bust.
Money greedy people (like those you worship),
Anyone operating an airline like Malaysian Airlines
is the exact opposite of that given the immense
amount of money they keep pouring down that
particular rat hole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
Post by Brad Guth
only respond when it's directly costing them,
Another bare faced lie. The industry has in fact
radically reduced the fatality rate over time, ALL
THE TIME, not just when it's directly costing them.
Post by Brad Guth
and especially when that cost can not be
passed along to the next generation of
passengers or even the cost of air freight.
Lie after lie after lie.
Brad Guth
2014-04-18 20:57:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Money greedy people (like those you worship),
Anyone operating an airline like Malaysian Airlines
is the exact opposite of that given the immense
amount of money they keep pouring down that
particular rat hole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
Post by Brad Guth
only respond when it's directly costing them,
Another bare faced lie. The industry has in fact
radically reduced the fatality rate over time, ALL
THE TIME, not just when it's directly costing them.
Post by Brad Guth
and especially when that cost can not be
passed along to the next generation of
passengers or even the cost of air freight.
Lie after lie after lie.
Money talks, as it always has and always will.

If looking for the most likely culprits, just follow the money and it'll lead us directly to them bastards.

Butt-covering and otherwise protecting the oligarchs, Bilderbergs and Rothschilds seems to be your manifesto.
Rod Speed
2014-04-18 22:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Money greedy people (like those you worship),
Anyone operating an airline like Malaysian Airlines
is the exact opposite of that given the immense
amount of money they keep pouring down that
particular rat hole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
Post by Brad Guth
only respond when it's directly costing them,
Another bare faced lie. The industry has in fact
radically reduced the fatality rate over time, ALL
THE TIME, not just when it's directly costing them.
Post by Brad Guth
and especially when that cost can not be
passed along to the next generation of
passengers or even the cost of air freight.
Lie after lie after lie.
Money talks, as it always has and always will.
Another lie. We paid an immense amount of money
to have you summarily executed when you spilled
the beans on what we did to MH370 and you are
still exposing us for the world to howl about.
Post by Brad Guth
If looking for the most likely culprits, just follow
the money and it'll lead us directly to them bastards.
Just like you did with the hijacking to Diego Garcia
and the cremation of all those passengers eh ?
Post by Brad Guth
Butt-covering and otherwise protecting the oligarchs,
Bilderbergs and Rothschilds seems to be your manifesto.
Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to, BAD.
Brad Guth
2014-04-18 23:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Money greedy people (like those you worship),
Anyone operating an airline like Malaysian Airlines
is the exact opposite of that given the immense
amount of money they keep pouring down that
particular rat hole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
Post by Brad Guth
only respond when it's directly costing them,
Another bare faced lie. The industry has in fact
radically reduced the fatality rate over time, ALL
THE TIME, not just when it's directly costing them.
Post by Brad Guth
and especially when that cost can not be
passed along to the next generation of
passengers or even the cost of air freight.
Lie after lie after lie.
Money talks, as it always has and always will.
Another lie. We paid an immense amount of money
to have you summarily executed when you spilled
the beans on what we did to MH370 and you are
still exposing us for the world to howl about.
Post by Brad Guth
If looking for the most likely culprits, just follow
the money and it'll lead us directly to them bastards.
Just like you did with the hijacking to Diego Garcia
and the cremation of all those passengers eh ?
Post by Brad Guth
Butt-covering and otherwise protecting the oligarchs,
Bilderbergs and Rothschilds seems to be your manifesto.
Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to, BAD.
99.9% of the time, there's money issues involved in each and every decision an airline makes. If it's cheaper (especially of whatever doesn't show or of anything they can't charge extra for), that's usually what gets done.
Rod Speed
2014-04-19 02:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Money greedy people (like those you worship),
Anyone operating an airline like Malaysian Airlines
is the exact opposite of that given the immense
amount of money they keep pouring down that
particular rat hole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
Post by Brad Guth
only respond when it's directly costing them,
Another bare faced lie. The industry has in fact
radically reduced the fatality rate over time, ALL
THE TIME, not just when it's directly costing them.
Post by Brad Guth
and especially when that cost can not be
passed along to the next generation of
passengers or even the cost of air freight.
Lie after lie after lie.
Money talks, as it always has and always will.
Another lie. We paid an immense amount of money
to have you summarily executed when you spilled
the beans on what we did to MH370 and you are
still exposing us for the world to howl about.
Post by Brad Guth
If looking for the most likely culprits, just follow
the money and it'll lead us directly to them bastards.
Just like you did with the hijacking to Diego Garcia
and the cremation of all those passengers eh ?
Post by Brad Guth
Butt-covering and otherwise protecting the oligarchs,
Bilderbergs and Rothschilds seems to be your manifesto.
Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to, BAD.
99.9% of the time, there's money issues involved
in each and every decision an airline makes.
And yet they continue to improve the fatality rate anyway.
Post by Brad Guth
If it's cheaper (especially of whatever doesn't show or of anything
they can't charge extra for), that's usually what gets done.
Must explain why the industry has spend a hell of a lot of money adding
ADS-B.
Brad Guth
2014-04-19 04:24:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Money greedy people (like those you worship),
Anyone operating an airline like Malaysian Airlines
is the exact opposite of that given the immense
amount of money they keep pouring down that
particular rat hole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
Post by Brad Guth
only respond when it's directly costing them,
Another bare faced lie. The industry has in fact
radically reduced the fatality rate over time, ALL
THE TIME, not just when it's directly costing them.
Post by Brad Guth
and especially when that cost can not be
passed along to the next generation of
passengers or even the cost of air freight.
Lie after lie after lie.
Money talks, as it always has and always will.
Another lie. We paid an immense amount of money
to have you summarily executed when you spilled
the beans on what we did to MH370 and you are
still exposing us for the world to howl about.
Post by Brad Guth
If looking for the most likely culprits, just follow
the money and it'll lead us directly to them bastards.
Just like you did with the hijacking to Diego Garcia
and the cremation of all those passengers eh ?
Post by Brad Guth
Butt-covering and otherwise protecting the oligarchs,
Bilderbergs and Rothschilds seems to be your manifesto.
Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to, BAD.
99.9% of the time, there's money issues involved
in each and every decision an airline makes.
And yet they continue to improve the fatality rate anyway.
Post by Brad Guth
If it's cheaper (especially of whatever doesn't show or of anything
they can't charge extra for), that's usually what gets done.
Must explain why the industry has spend a hell of a lot of money adding
ADS-B.
You can make the flying prisons as fancy and safe as you like, but then you keep telling us that no matters what we still can't trust the pilots, and otherwise as is (even with ADS-B) there's still nothing anyone behind the cockpit security door can do about it.

Why not pay 1% more for a ticket on a properly outfitted aircraft?
Rod Speed
2014-04-19 05:32:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Money greedy people (like those you worship),
Anyone operating an airline like Malaysian Airlines
is the exact opposite of that given the immense
amount of money they keep pouring down that
particular rat hole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
Post by Brad Guth
only respond when it's directly costing them,
Another bare faced lie. The industry has in fact
radically reduced the fatality rate over time, ALL
THE TIME, not just when it's directly costing them.
Post by Brad Guth
and especially when that cost can not be
passed along to the next generation of
passengers or even the cost of air freight.
Lie after lie after lie.
Money talks, as it always has and always will.
Another lie. We paid an immense amount of money
to have you summarily executed when you spilled
the beans on what we did to MH370 and you are
still exposing us for the world to howl about.
Post by Brad Guth
If looking for the most likely culprits, just follow
the money and it'll lead us directly to them bastards.
Just like you did with the hijacking to Diego Garcia
and the cremation of all those passengers eh ?
Post by Brad Guth
Butt-covering and otherwise protecting the oligarchs,
Bilderbergs and Rothschilds seems to be your manifesto.
Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to, BAD.
99.9% of the time, there's money issues involved
in each and every decision an airline makes.
And yet they continue to improve the fatality rate anyway.
Post by Brad Guth
If it's cheaper (especially of whatever doesn't show or of anything
they can't charge extra for), that's usually what gets done.
Must explain why the industry has spend a hell of a lot of money adding
ADS-B.
You can make the flying prisons
If you believe that they are flying prisons, you are
always free to never ever fly ever again, fuckwit child.
Post by Brad Guth
as fancy and safe as you like, but then you keep telling
us that no matters what we still can't trust the pilots,
The official investigation into at least
FOUR losses of a heavy has said that.
Post by Brad Guth
and otherwise as is (even with ADS-B) there's still nothing
anyone behind the cockpit security door can do about it.
And nothing you have pig ignorantly proposed
will do a damned thing about that.
Post by Brad Guth
Why not pay 1% more for a ticket
That number is straight from your
arse, we can tell that from the smell.
Post by Brad Guth
on a properly outfitted aircraft?
Because what you pig ignorantly propose will
not do a damned thing about what you are so
mindlessly hyperventilating about, fuckwit child.
Brad Guth
2014-04-19 14:46:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Money greedy people (like those you worship),
Anyone operating an airline like Malaysian Airlines
is the exact opposite of that given the immense
amount of money they keep pouring down that
particular rat hole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
Post by Brad Guth
only respond when it's directly costing them,
Another bare faced lie. The industry has in fact
radically reduced the fatality rate over time, ALL
THE TIME, not just when it's directly costing them.
Post by Brad Guth
and especially when that cost can not be
passed along to the next generation of
passengers or even the cost of air freight.
Lie after lie after lie.
Money talks, as it always has and always will.
Another lie. We paid an immense amount of money
to have you summarily executed when you spilled
the beans on what we did to MH370 and you are
still exposing us for the world to howl about.
Post by Brad Guth
If looking for the most likely culprits, just follow
the money and it'll lead us directly to them bastards.
Just like you did with the hijacking to Diego Garcia
and the cremation of all those passengers eh ?
Post by Brad Guth
Butt-covering and otherwise protecting the oligarchs,
Bilderbergs and Rothschilds seems to be your manifesto.
Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to, BAD.
99.9% of the time, there's money issues involved
in each and every decision an airline makes.
And yet they continue to improve the fatality rate anyway.
Post by Brad Guth
If it's cheaper (especially of whatever doesn't show or of anything
they can't charge extra for), that's usually what gets done.
Must explain why the industry has spend a hell of a lot of money adding
ADS-B.
You can make the flying prisons
If you believe that they are flying prisons, you are
always free to never ever fly ever again, fuckwit child.
Post by Brad Guth
as fancy and safe as you like, but then you keep telling
us that no matters what we still can't trust the pilots,
The official investigation into at least
FOUR losses of a heavy has said that.
Post by Brad Guth
and otherwise as is (even with ADS-B) there's still nothing
anyone behind the cockpit security door can do about it.
And nothing you have pig ignorantly proposed
will do a damned thing about that.
Post by Brad Guth
Why not pay 1% more for a ticket
That number is straight from your
arse, we can tell that from the smell.
Post by Brad Guth
on a properly outfitted aircraft?
Because what you pig ignorantly propose will
not do a damned thing about what you are so
mindlessly hyperventilating about, fuckwit child.
Take your medications and try that again.
Rod Speed
2014-04-19 20:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Money greedy people (like those you worship),
Anyone operating an airline like Malaysian Airlines
is the exact opposite of that given the immense
amount of money they keep pouring down that
particular rat hole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines#Financial_highlights
Post by Brad Guth
only respond when it's directly costing them,
Another bare faced lie. The industry has in fact
radically reduced the fatality rate over time, ALL
THE TIME, not just when it's directly costing them.
Post by Brad Guth
and especially when that cost can not be
passed along to the next generation of
passengers or even the cost of air freight.
Lie after lie after lie.
Money talks, as it always has and always will.
Another lie. We paid an immense amount of money
to have you summarily executed when you spilled
the beans on what we did to MH370 and you are
still exposing us for the world to howl about.
Post by Brad Guth
If looking for the most likely culprits, just follow
the money and it'll lead us directly to them bastards.
Just like you did with the hijacking to Diego Garcia
and the cremation of all those passengers eh ?
Post by Brad Guth
Butt-covering and otherwise protecting the oligarchs,
Bilderbergs and Rothschilds seems to be your manifesto.
Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to, BAD.
99.9% of the time, there's money issues involved
in each and every decision an airline makes.
And yet they continue to improve the fatality rate anyway.
Post by Brad Guth
If it's cheaper (especially of whatever doesn't show or of anything
they can't charge extra for), that's usually what gets done.
Must explain why the industry has spend a hell of a lot of money adding
ADS-B.
You can make the flying prisons
If you believe that they are flying prisons, you are
always free to never ever fly ever again, fuckwit child.
Post by Brad Guth
as fancy and safe as you like, but then you keep telling
us that no matters what we still can't trust the pilots,
The official investigation into at least
FOUR losses of a heavy has said that.
Post by Brad Guth
and otherwise as is (even with ADS-B) there's still nothing
anyone behind the cockpit security door can do about it.
And nothing you have pig ignorantly proposed
will do a damned thing about that.
Post by Brad Guth
Why not pay 1% more for a ticket
That number is straight from your
arse, we can tell that from the smell.
Post by Brad Guth
on a properly outfitted aircraft?
Because what you pig ignorantly propose will
not do a damned thing about what you are so
mindlessly hyperventilating about, fuckwit child.
Take your medications and try that again.
Even you should be able to do better than that pathetic effort, child.

Obviously not.
Brad Guth
2014-04-19 20:30:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Take your medications and try that again.
Even you should be able to do better than that pathetic effort, child.
Obviously not.
But I'm not bipolar, unless dyslexia counts.

Seems to me, the primary objective here is to keep those passengers alive and always traced as to their most recent location, and at least if everything is going badly and very doom worthy, it might be kind of nice giving those soon to die passengers a direct connection to ground authority and otherwise still able to contact their family and friends for the last time.

Why do you want to deprive your passengers/prisoners of their most basic rights?
Rod Speed
2014-04-19 21:18:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
But I'm not bipolar, unless dyslexia counts.
You do have a striking similarity to someone else
I know who eventually ended up with full blown
schizophrenia and who has periodically now
told the judge that he can not be involuntarily
incarcerated in the loony bin because the
constitution does not allow that.

That isn't a nasty remark, it will be interesting
to see if you end up in that situation too.
Post by Brad Guth
Seems to me, the primary objective
here is to keep those passengers alive
Yes.
Post by Brad Guth
and always traced as to their most recent location,
That is certainly desirable when the problem is with
the failure of aircraft systems, but is of no real value
if the problem is pilot suicide, because if we did
ensure that no suiciding pilot could ever turn that
off, the most that would do is see the pilot who
is such a complete and utter arsehole as to choose
to take a plane full of passengers with him would
just ensure he does that with no prior warning etc.

Tho it would certainly make it impossible for
a pilot to make it impossible to prove it was
suicide so that his family get paid out for his
death on the job and would not have to accept
that he was a complete and utter arsehole.

Its far from clear that the considerable cost
that would be involved with say adding
inmarsat satellite logging of ADS-B output
to the current ADS-B system and ensuring
enough redundancy so that only a faulty
ADS-B can be turned off and that it isnt
possible to turn them all off in the air
is a cost that is justified by the tiny
number of planes that go missing
every year tho.
Post by Brad Guth
and at least if everything is going badly and very
doom worthy, it might be kind of nice giving
those soon to die passengers a direct connection
to ground authority and otherwise still able to
contact their family and friends for the last time.
Sure, but the cost of that isnt trivial with 500
or more passengers being able to do that
when there is only minutes available as the
plane plummets to the ground out of control.

I don't see that it makes any sense to MANDATE that
be available in all heavys, let alone all commuter aircraft.

In some ways it makes more sense to just allow airlines to
offer that in their heavys and to advertise that as available
if they want to for those prepared to pay more for that like
they do with say leg room etc.

But I don't expect too many airlines would actually
advertise it for what should be obvious reasons.
Post by Brad Guth
Why do you want to deprive your passengers/
prisoners of their most basic rights?
I don't. I am happen for airlines to offer
that sort of capability to their passengers.

I just don't see that it makes any sense at all to
MANDATE that all heavys must have the capability
when it would be used so rarely. It makes a lot more
sense to be spending that sort of money on stuff like
ADS-B instead because it provides so much more
that can be used on almost every flight instead,
if only to increase the flexibility of flight paths etc
for the benefit to passengers with shorter flights etc.
Res
2014-04-20 12:51:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
99.9% of the time, there's money issues involved in each and every
decision an airline makes. If it's cheaper (especially of whatever
doesn't show or of anything they can't charge extra for), that's usually
what gets done.
true, the ADS-B ground station I commissioned last week was using cheap
shitty coax, why? because the cost of LMR900 is ridiculous
F Murtz
2014-04-19 04:56:20 UTC
Permalink
"Brad Guth" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message ms to be your manifesto.

More rot



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
1***@gmail.com
2014-04-18 03:16:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Saccani
It is likely that the total payout will be less than $US450 million,
possibly much less, dependant on the cause. Or what the courts think
the cause is.
And what about the costs of the search on top of that?
I have seen estimates of 50 to 100 million dollars, depending on how long
it takes.
Paul Saccani
2014-04-18 03:45:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1***@gmail.com
Post by Paul Saccani
It is likely that the total payout will be less than $US450 million,
possibly much less, dependant on the cause. Or what the courts think
the cause is.
And what about the costs of the search on top of that?
Irrelevant.
Post by 1***@gmail.com
I have seen estimates of 50 to 100 million dollars, depending on how long
it takes.
Like the recovery costs, irrelevant. These are not a responsibility
of the airline.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Rod Speed
2014-04-18 04:38:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1***@gmail.com
Post by Paul Saccani
It is likely that the total payout will be less than $US450
million, possibly much less, dependant on the cause.
Or what the courts think the cause is.
And what about the costs of the search on top of that?
Basically those that incur the costs get to wear the costs.
Post by 1***@gmail.com
I have seen estimates of 50 to 100 million dollars,
depending on how long it takes.
The variation has to be a lot more than that given
that it took 2 years to find AF477 with a lot more
accurate knowledge of where it hit the water.
Brad Guth
2014-04-19 04:26:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1***@gmail.com
Post by Paul Saccani
It is likely that the total payout will be less than $US450 million,
possibly much less, dependant on the cause. Or what the courts think
the cause is.
And what about the costs of the search on top of that?
I have seen estimates of 50 to 100 million dollars, depending on how long
it takes.
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
Rod Speed
2014-04-19 05:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by 1***@gmail.com
Post by Paul Saccani
It is likely that the total payout will be less than $US450 million,
possibly much less, dependant on the cause. Or what the courts think
the cause is.
And what about the costs of the search on top of that?
I have seen estimates of 50 to 100 million dollars, depending on how long
it takes.
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Brad Guth
2014-04-19 15:48:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Rod Speed
2014-04-19 20:13:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.

And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.

So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
Brad Guth
2014-04-20 15:09:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.
And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.
So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
You obviously failed accounting-101, but earned your masters degree in FUD-101.

I bet you even think nations are not running debts they can't possibly pay off.

How is making future generations pay for your mistakes, not costing anyone?
Rod Speed
2014-04-20 19:29:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.
And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.
So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
You obviously failed accounting-101,
Wrong, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
but earned your masters degree in FUD-101.
Wrong, as always.

There is no FUD whatever in the above,
you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
Post by Brad Guth
I bet you even think nations are not
running debts they can't possibly pay off.
You've just lost that bet and even someone
as stupid as you should be able to prove
that using groups.google.

You can pay the bet you just lost to my paypal account.
Post by Brad Guth
How is making future generations pay for your mistakes,
That isnt what is happening with search and rescue.

In fact we are continuously improving the
reporting of where heavys are using ADS-B
and that is significantly reducing the cost of
the searching as we speak.
Post by Brad Guth
not costing anyone?
Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?
Brad Guth
2014-04-20 20:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.
And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.
So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
You obviously failed accounting-101,
Wrong, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
but earned your masters degree in FUD-101.
Wrong, as always.
There is no FUD whatever in the above,
you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
Post by Brad Guth
I bet you even think nations are not
running debts they can't possibly pay off.
You've just lost that bet and even someone
as stupid as you should be able to prove
that using groups.google.
You can pay the bet you just lost to my paypal account.
Post by Brad Guth
How is making future generations pay for your mistakes,
That isnt what is happening with search and rescue.
In fact we are continuously improving the
reporting of where heavys are using ADS-B
and that is significantly reducing the cost of
the searching as we speak.
Post by Brad Guth
not costing anyone?
Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?
In other words, you still got nothing as to benefit any of those doomed passengers/prisoners of your airline, and obviously screwing future generations with the growing debt, compromises and revenge Karma created by those of your generation is what makes you a happy camper.
Rod Speed
2014-04-20 21:25:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.
And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.
So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
You obviously failed accounting-101,
Wrong, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
but earned your masters degree in FUD-101.
Wrong, as always.
There is no FUD whatever in the above,
you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
Post by Brad Guth
I bet you even think nations are not
running debts they can't possibly pay off.
You've just lost that bet and even someone
as stupid as you should be able to prove
that using groups.google.
You can pay the bet you just lost to my paypal account.
Post by Brad Guth
How is making future generations pay for your mistakes,
That isnt what is happening with search and rescue.
In fact we are continuously improving the
reporting of where heavys are using ADS-B
and that is significantly reducing the cost of
the searching as we speak.
Post by Brad Guth
not costing anyone?
Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?
In other words, you still got nothing as to benefit any
of those doomed passengers/prisoners of your airline,
Wrong with ADS-B alone, and the increasingly common
cellphone service that many airlines are providing in their
better equipped heavys, and the continuing advancements
in airline safety that have been continuing since before
you were ever born.

And there is no airline of mine except in your
fetid little drug crazed paranoid fantasyland.
Post by Brad Guth
and obviously screwing future
generations with the growing debt,
I happen to be be part of one of the few
countrys in the entire world that had no net
federal govt debt just before YOUR clowns
were stupidly allowed to completely implode
much of the world financial system, AGAIN.
Post by Brad Guth
compromises
Nothing else is even possible, child.
Post by Brad Guth
and revenge Karma
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
Post by Brad Guth
created by those of your generation
Corse none of yours has ever
done anything like that, eh, child ?
Post by Brad Guth
is what makes you a happy camper.
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.

What I actually welcome is the continuing advances
in the safety of flying and even of travel by car, that
has been continuing since before you were even
born, child.

AND I welcome the FACT that the industry will never
actually be stupid enough to actually do any of the
stuff you pig ignorantly demand must be mandated,
because the industry actually has enough of a clue
to realise that none of what you propose is even
practical, and will not do a damned thing about
pilot suicide or aircraft systems failure either.
Brad Guth
2014-04-20 22:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.
And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.
So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
You obviously failed accounting-101,
Wrong, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
but earned your masters degree in FUD-101.
Wrong, as always.
There is no FUD whatever in the above,
you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
Post by Brad Guth
I bet you even think nations are not
running debts they can't possibly pay off.
You've just lost that bet and even someone
as stupid as you should be able to prove
that using groups.google.
You can pay the bet you just lost to my paypal account.
Post by Brad Guth
How is making future generations pay for your mistakes,
That isnt what is happening with search and rescue.
In fact we are continuously improving the
reporting of where heavys are using ADS-B
and that is significantly reducing the cost of
the searching as we speak.
Post by Brad Guth
not costing anyone?
Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?
In other words, you still got nothing as to benefit any
of those doomed passengers/prisoners of your airline,
Wrong with ADS-B alone, and the increasingly common
cellphone service that many airlines are providing in their
better equipped heavys, and the continuing advancements
in airline safety that have been continuing since before
you were ever born.
And there is no airline of mine except in your
fetid little drug crazed paranoid fantasyland.
Post by Brad Guth
and obviously screwing future
generations with the growing debt,
I happen to be be part of one of the few
countrys in the entire world that had no net
federal govt debt just before YOUR clowns
were stupidly allowed to completely implode
much of the world financial system, AGAIN.
Post by Brad Guth
compromises
Nothing else is even possible, child.
Post by Brad Guth
and revenge Karma
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
Post by Brad Guth
created by those of your generation
Corse none of yours has ever
done anything like that, eh, child ?
Post by Brad Guth
is what makes you a happy camper.
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
What I actually welcome is the continuing advances
in the safety of flying and even of travel by car, that
has been continuing since before you were even
born, child.
AND I welcome the FACT that the industry will never
actually be stupid enough to actually do any of the
stuff you pig ignorantly demand must be mandated,
because the industry actually has enough of a clue
to realise that none of what you propose is even
practical, and will not do a damned thing about
pilot suicide or aircraft systems failure either.
UAVs and driverless cars will become the status-quo norm, in spite of the know-it-all Zionist Nazis like yourself.

Never will imprisoning passengers as having no wrights whatsoever be an acceptable solution, other than within the oligarch, Bilderberg and Rothschild owned worlds (aka NWO) that you'd worship.

Since you've never had to actually work for a living, you should be sweating bullets over what the near future of revenge Karma has planned for those of your public-funded and/or ratepayer-funded kind.
Rod Speed
2014-04-20 23:29:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.
And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.
So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
You obviously failed accounting-101,
Wrong, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
but earned your masters degree in FUD-101.
Wrong, as always.
There is no FUD whatever in the above,
you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
Post by Brad Guth
I bet you even think nations are not
running debts they can't possibly pay off.
You've just lost that bet and even someone
as stupid as you should be able to prove
that using groups.google.
You can pay the bet you just lost to my paypal account.
Post by Brad Guth
How is making future generations pay for your mistakes,
That isnt what is happening with search and rescue.
In fact we are continuously improving the
reporting of where heavys are using ADS-B
and that is significantly reducing the cost of
the searching as we speak.
Post by Brad Guth
not costing anyone?
Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?
In other words, you still got nothing as to benefit any
of those doomed passengers/prisoners of your airline,
Wrong with ADS-B alone, and the increasingly common
cellphone service that many airlines are providing in their
better equipped heavys, and the continuing advancements
in airline safety that have been continuing since before
you were ever born.
And there is no airline of mine except in your
fetid little drug crazed paranoid fantasyland.
Post by Brad Guth
and obviously screwing future
generations with the growing debt,
I happen to be be part of one of the few
countrys in the entire world that had no net
federal govt debt just before YOUR clowns
were stupidly allowed to completely implode
much of the world financial system, AGAIN.
Post by Brad Guth
compromises
Nothing else is even possible, child.
Post by Brad Guth
and revenge Karma
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
Post by Brad Guth
created by those of your generation
Corse none of yours has ever
done anything like that, eh, child ?
Post by Brad Guth
is what makes you a happy camper.
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
What I actually welcome is the continuing advances
in the safety of flying and even of travel by car, that
has been continuing since before you were even
born, child.
AND I welcome the FACT that the industry will never
actually be stupid enough to actually do any of the
stuff you pig ignorantly demand must be mandated,
because the industry actually has enough of a clue
to realise that none of what you propose is even
practical, and will not do a damned thing about
pilot suicide or aircraft systems failure either.
UAVs and driverless cars will become the status-quo norm,
Not with heavys they won't.

And it remains to be seen with cars too.

We have been able to do driverless trains for a long time
now and still choose not to do it that way much for a reason.
Post by Brad Guth
in spite of the know-it-all Zionist Nazis like yourself.
We'll see...
Post by Brad Guth
Never will imprisoning passengers as having no
wrights whatsoever be an acceptable solution,
They ALWAYS have the right to not fly at all.
Post by Brad Guth
other than within the oligarch, Bilderberg
and Rothschild owned worlds (aka NWO)
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
that you'd worship.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
Since you've never had to actually work for a living,
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys/lies.
Post by Brad Guth
you should be sweating bullets
Never do that, fuckwit child.
Post by Brad Guth
over what the near future of revenge Karma
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
has planned for those of your public-funded
and/or ratepayer-funded kind.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Brad Guth
2014-04-21 05:12:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.
And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.
So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
You obviously failed accounting-101,
Wrong, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
but earned your masters degree in FUD-101.
Wrong, as always.
There is no FUD whatever in the above,
you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
Post by Brad Guth
I bet you even think nations are not
running debts they can't possibly pay off.
You've just lost that bet and even someone
as stupid as you should be able to prove
that using groups.google.
You can pay the bet you just lost to my paypal account.
Post by Brad Guth
How is making future generations pay for your mistakes,
That isnt what is happening with search and rescue.
In fact we are continuously improving the
reporting of where heavys are using ADS-B
and that is significantly reducing the cost of
the searching as we speak.
Post by Brad Guth
not costing anyone?
Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?
In other words, you still got nothing as to benefit any
of those doomed passengers/prisoners of your airline,
Wrong with ADS-B alone, and the increasingly common
cellphone service that many airlines are providing in their
better equipped heavys, and the continuing advancements
in airline safety that have been continuing since before
you were ever born.
And there is no airline of mine except in your
fetid little drug crazed paranoid fantasyland.
Post by Brad Guth
and obviously screwing future
generations with the growing debt,
I happen to be be part of one of the few
countrys in the entire world that had no net
federal govt debt just before YOUR clowns
were stupidly allowed to completely implode
much of the world financial system, AGAIN.
Post by Brad Guth
compromises
Nothing else is even possible, child.
Post by Brad Guth
and revenge Karma
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
Post by Brad Guth
created by those of your generation
Corse none of yours has ever
done anything like that, eh, child ?
Post by Brad Guth
is what makes you a happy camper.
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
What I actually welcome is the continuing advances
in the safety of flying and even of travel by car, that
has been continuing since before you were even
born, child.
AND I welcome the FACT that the industry will never
actually be stupid enough to actually do any of the
stuff you pig ignorantly demand must be mandated,
because the industry actually has enough of a clue
to realise that none of what you propose is even
practical, and will not do a damned thing about
pilot suicide or aircraft systems failure either.
UAVs and driverless cars will become the status-quo norm,
Not with heavys they won't.
And it remains to be seen with cars too.
We have been able to do driverless trains for a long time
now and still choose not to do it that way much for a reason.
Post by Brad Guth
in spite of the know-it-all Zionist Nazis like yourself.
We'll see...
Post by Brad Guth
Never will imprisoning passengers as having no
wrights whatsoever be an acceptable solution,
They ALWAYS have the right to not fly at all.
Post by Brad Guth
other than within the oligarch, Bilderberg
and Rothschild owned worlds (aka NWO)
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
that you'd worship.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
Since you've never had to actually work for a living,
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys/lies.
Post by Brad Guth
you should be sweating bullets
Never do that, fuckwit child.
Post by Brad Guth
over what the near future of revenge Karma
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
has planned for those of your public-funded
and/or ratepayer-funded kind.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Noticed that you couldn't prove me wrong.

For supposedly knowing everything there is to know, seems odd that you can't even share as to who you really are.
Rod Speed
2014-04-21 06:21:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.
And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.
So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
You obviously failed accounting-101,
Wrong, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
but earned your masters degree in FUD-101.
Wrong, as always.
There is no FUD whatever in the above,
you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
Post by Brad Guth
I bet you even think nations are not
running debts they can't possibly pay off.
You've just lost that bet and even someone
as stupid as you should be able to prove
that using groups.google.
You can pay the bet you just lost to my paypal account.
Post by Brad Guth
How is making future generations pay for your mistakes,
That isnt what is happening with search and rescue.
In fact we are continuously improving the
reporting of where heavys are using ADS-B
and that is significantly reducing the cost of
the searching as we speak.
Post by Brad Guth
not costing anyone?
Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?
In other words, you still got nothing as to benefit any
of those doomed passengers/prisoners of your airline,
Wrong with ADS-B alone, and the increasingly common
cellphone service that many airlines are providing in their
better equipped heavys, and the continuing advancements
in airline safety that have been continuing since before
you were ever born.
And there is no airline of mine except in your
fetid little drug crazed paranoid fantasyland.
Post by Brad Guth
and obviously screwing future
generations with the growing debt,
I happen to be be part of one of the few
countrys in the entire world that had no net
federal govt debt just before YOUR clowns
were stupidly allowed to completely implode
much of the world financial system, AGAIN.
Post by Brad Guth
compromises
Nothing else is even possible, child.
Post by Brad Guth
and revenge Karma
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
Post by Brad Guth
created by those of your generation
Corse none of yours has ever
done anything like that, eh, child ?
Post by Brad Guth
is what makes you a happy camper.
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
What I actually welcome is the continuing advances
in the safety of flying and even of travel by car, that
has been continuing since before you were even
born, child.
AND I welcome the FACT that the industry will never
actually be stupid enough to actually do any of the
stuff you pig ignorantly demand must be mandated,
because the industry actually has enough of a clue
to realise that none of what you propose is even
practical, and will not do a damned thing about
pilot suicide or aircraft systems failure either.
UAVs and driverless cars will become the status-quo norm,
Not with heavys they won't.
And it remains to be seen with cars too.
We have been able to do driverless trains for a long time
now and still choose not to do it that way much for a reason.
Post by Brad Guth
in spite of the know-it-all Zionist Nazis like yourself.
We'll see...
Post by Brad Guth
Never will imprisoning passengers as having no
wrights whatsoever be an acceptable solution,
They ALWAYS have the right to not fly at all.
Post by Brad Guth
other than within the oligarch, Bilderberg
and Rothschild owned worlds (aka NWO)
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
that you'd worship.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
Since you've never had to actually work for a living,
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys/lies.
Post by Brad Guth
you should be sweating bullets
Never do that, fuckwit child.
Post by Brad Guth
over what the near future of revenge Karma
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Post by Brad Guth
has planned for those of your public-funded
and/or ratepayer-funded kind.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed loony fantasys.
Noticed that you couldn't prove me wrong.
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your teeth, as you always do when you have
got done like a fucking dinner, as you always are.
Post by Brad Guth
For supposedly knowing everything there is to know,
Even working out that you are a schizophrenic
who is kept in a padded cell most of the time.
Post by Brad Guth
seems odd that you can't even share as to who you really are.
We all swooned when you did that, child.
Brad Guth
2014-04-21 14:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Noticed that you couldn't prove me wrong.
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your teeth, as you always do when you have
got done like a fucking dinner, as you always are.
Post by Brad Guth
For supposedly knowing everything there is to know,
Even working out that you are a schizophrenic
who is kept in a padded cell most of the time.
Post by Brad Guth
seems odd that you can't even share as to who you really are.
We all swooned when you did that, child.
Why are you always such an angry person?

You obviously do not get out much, and have few if any supporters because you're such a born-again know-it-all that has no respect nor any remorse whatsoever, not for the living nor the dead.

UAVs can become more reliable and trustworthy than pilots, not that pilots need be excluded as long as their social/political/faith-based/physical and mental fidelity is fully in-tact. Of course the odds of any pilot being fully qualified under all conditions of his/her fidelity is highly unlikely.

Under all conditions of UAV or pilot(s), passengers must have their own independent navigation and communications that the UAV nor whatever pilots can not disrupt. In other words, we sure as hell can not trust the likes of yourself.
Rod Speed
2014-04-21 19:27:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Noticed that you couldn't prove me wrong.
Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your teeth, as you always do when you have
got done like a fucking dinner, as you always are.
Post by Brad Guth
For supposedly knowing everything there is to know,
Even working out that you are a schizophrenic
who is kept in a padded cell most of the time.
Post by Brad Guth
seems odd that you can't even share as to who you really are.
We all swooned when you did that, child.
Why are you always such an angry person?
When did you stop beating your 'wife'
Post by Brad Guth
You obviously do not get out much,
You're projecting now, child.
Post by Brad Guth
and have few if any supporters
We all swooned at the hordes that supported the
mindless silly shit you have posted here boy.
Post by Brad Guth
because you're such a born-again
I've only ever been born once thanks, child.
Post by Brad Guth
know-it-all
Sure beats being a know nothing, child.
Post by Brad Guth
that has no respect
Not for rabid mouth frothing schizophrenics like you, certainly.
Post by Brad Guth
nor any remorse whatsoever,
Not about how I deal with rabid mouth
frothing schizophrenics like you, certainly.
Post by Brad Guth
not for the living nor the dead.
Not a lot of point in any remorse for those who are dead, child.
Post by Brad Guth
UAVs can become more reliable and trustworthy than pilots,
Nope, because it isnt possible to have human supervision of
them anything like as effectively as you can with manned heavys.
Post by Brad Guth
not that pilots need be excluded
While ever they aren't, it will always be possible for some
complete arsehole to use the UAV to do another 9/11, stupid.

And with a UAV, you don't even have to find someone
actually stupid enough to kill themselves, they can just
direct the UAV to do what they want and get off scott free.
Post by Brad Guth
as long as their social/political/faith-based/physical
and mental fidelity is fully in-tact.
Have fun spelling out how you actually do that.

You don't even have any chance to scrutinise
them in person like you do with a heavy pilot.
Post by Brad Guth
Of course the odds of any pilot being fully qualified
under all conditions of his/her fidelity is highly unlikely.
And impossible with UAVs.
Post by Brad Guth
Under all conditions of UAV or pilot(s), passengers
must have their own independent navigation and
communications that the UAV nor whatever pilots
can not disrupt.
Fat lot of good that would be when you have 500+
passengers all howling at the top of their lungs to
whoever they are communicating with on the
ground, making it completely impossible for
those on the ground to even sort out who has
even half a clue about their situation and who
is just a complete raving loony like you quickly
enough to decide that they need to take remote
control of that heavy, even if the industry was
actually stupid enough to implement that sort
of remote control capability.
Post by Brad Guth
In other words, we sure as hell
can not trust the likes of yourself.
Don't need to, child.
F Murtz
2014-04-21 08:59:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.
And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.
So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
You obviously failed accounting-101,
Wrong, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
but earned your masters degree in FUD-101.
Wrong, as always.
There is no FUD whatever in the above,
you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
Post by Brad Guth
I bet you even think nations are not
running debts they can't possibly pay off.
You've just lost that bet and even someone
as stupid as you should be able to prove
that using groups.google.
You can pay the bet you just lost to my paypal account.
Post by Brad Guth
How is making future generations pay for your mistakes,
That isnt what is happening with search and rescue.
In fact we are continuously improving the
reporting of where heavys are using ADS-B
and that is significantly reducing the cost of
the searching as we speak.
Post by Brad Guth
not costing anyone?
Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?
In other words, you still got nothing as to benefit any
of those doomed passengers/prisoners of your airline,
Wrong with ADS-B alone, and the increasingly common
cellphone service that many airlines are providing in their
better equipped heavys, and the continuing advancements
in airline safety that have been continuing since before
you were ever born.
And there is no airline of mine except in your
fetid little drug crazed paranoid fantasyland.
Post by Brad Guth
and obviously screwing future
generations with the growing debt,
I happen to be be part of one of the few
countrys in the entire world that had no net
federal govt debt just before YOUR clowns
were stupidly allowed to completely implode
much of the world financial system, AGAIN.
Post by Brad Guth
compromises
Nothing else is even possible, child.
Post by Brad Guth
and revenge Karma
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
Post by Brad Guth
created by those of your generation
Corse none of yours has ever
done anything like that, eh, child ?
Post by Brad Guth
is what makes you a happy camper.
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
What I actually welcome is the continuing advances
in the safety of flying and even of travel by car, that
has been continuing since before you were even
born, child.
AND I welcome the FACT that the industry will never
actually be stupid enough to actually do any of the
stuff you pig ignorantly demand must be mandated,
because the industry actually has enough of a clue
to realise that none of what you propose is even
practical, and will not do a damned thing about
pilot suicide or aircraft systems failure either.
UAVs and driverless cars will become the status-quo norm, in spite of the know-it-all Zionist Nazis like yourself.
Never will imprisoning passengers as having no wrights
Millwrights or shipwrights?


whatsoever be an acceptable solution, other than within the oligarch,
Bilderberg and Rothschild owned worlds (aka NWO) that you'd worship.
Post by Brad Guth
Since you've never had to actually work for a living, you should be sweating bullets over what the near future of revenge Karma has planned for those of your public-funded and/or ratepayer-funded kind.
Brad Guth
2014-04-21 13:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.
And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.
So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
You obviously failed accounting-101,
Wrong, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
but earned your masters degree in FUD-101.
Wrong, as always.
There is no FUD whatever in the above,
you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
Post by Brad Guth
I bet you even think nations are not
running debts they can't possibly pay off.
You've just lost that bet and even someone
as stupid as you should be able to prove
that using groups.google.
You can pay the bet you just lost to my paypal account.
Post by Brad Guth
How is making future generations pay for your mistakes,
That isnt what is happening with search and rescue.
In fact we are continuously improving the
reporting of where heavys are using ADS-B
and that is significantly reducing the cost of
the searching as we speak.
Post by Brad Guth
not costing anyone?
Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?
In other words, you still got nothing as to benefit any
of those doomed passengers/prisoners of your airline,
Wrong with ADS-B alone, and the increasingly common
cellphone service that many airlines are providing in their
better equipped heavys, and the continuing advancements
in airline safety that have been continuing since before
you were ever born.
And there is no airline of mine except in your
fetid little drug crazed paranoid fantasyland.
Post by Brad Guth
and obviously screwing future
generations with the growing debt,
I happen to be be part of one of the few
countrys in the entire world that had no net
federal govt debt just before YOUR clowns
were stupidly allowed to completely implode
much of the world financial system, AGAIN.
Post by Brad Guth
compromises
Nothing else is even possible, child.
Post by Brad Guth
and revenge Karma
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
Post by Brad Guth
created by those of your generation
Corse none of yours has ever
done anything like that, eh, child ?
Post by Brad Guth
is what makes you a happy camper.
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
What I actually welcome is the continuing advances
in the safety of flying and even of travel by car, that
has been continuing since before you were even
born, child.
AND I welcome the FACT that the industry will never
actually be stupid enough to actually do any of the
stuff you pig ignorantly demand must be mandated,
because the industry actually has enough of a clue
to realise that none of what you propose is even
practical, and will not do a damned thing about
pilot suicide or aircraft systems failure either.
As said before, and worth repeating; You are a nobody that doesn't value the passengers or flight crews.

Our FEMA and the NWO hires individuals exactly like yourself, because culling 94+% of humanity is one of their future steps, as pointed out by our Georgia Guidestones.
Rod Speed
2014-04-21 19:11:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost
will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
We'll see...
Whenever it comes down to cost, governments and
corporations never tell us the whole truth and nothing but
the truth of what such stuff is really all-inclusive costing us.
Bullshit. Quite a bit of the time the media
does not allow for the real benefits training
wise with some of these operations.
And even if you believe that the costs of say all
those shiny bums who are involved in telling
the stuffed shirts like Angus Houston what he
should say to the cameras when he does front
those, they are on the payroll anyway and they
don't even get overtime payments for doing that.
So your ten times claim is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell, as always.
You obviously failed accounting-101,
Wrong, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
but earned your masters degree in FUD-101.
Wrong, as always.
There is no FUD whatever in the above,
you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
Post by Brad Guth
I bet you even think nations are not
running debts they can't possibly pay off.
You've just lost that bet and even someone
as stupid as you should be able to prove
that using groups.google.
You can pay the bet you just lost to my paypal account.
Post by Brad Guth
How is making future generations pay for your mistakes,
That isnt what is happening with search and rescue.
In fact we are continuously improving the
reporting of where heavys are using ADS-B
and that is significantly reducing the cost of
the searching as we speak.
Post by Brad Guth
not costing anyone?
Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?
In other words, you still got nothing as to benefit any
of those doomed passengers/prisoners of your airline,
Wrong with ADS-B alone, and the increasingly common
cellphone service that many airlines are providing in their
better equipped heavys, and the continuing advancements
in airline safety that have been continuing since before
you were ever born.
And there is no airline of mine except in your
fetid little drug crazed paranoid fantasyland.
Post by Brad Guth
and obviously screwing future
generations with the growing debt,
I happen to be be part of one of the few
countrys in the entire world that had no net
federal govt debt just before YOUR clowns
were stupidly allowed to completely implode
much of the world financial system, AGAIN.
Post by Brad Guth
compromises
Nothing else is even possible, child.
Post by Brad Guth
and revenge Karma
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
Post by Brad Guth
created by those of your generation
Corse none of yours has ever
done anything like that, eh, child ?
Post by Brad Guth
is what makes you a happy camper.
Just another of your pathetic little
drug crazed loony fantasys, child.
What I actually welcome is the continuing advances
in the safety of flying and even of travel by car, that
has been continuing since before you were even
born, child.
AND I welcome the FACT that the industry will never
actually be stupid enough to actually do any of the
stuff you pig ignorantly demand must be mandated,
because the industry actually has enough of a clue
to realise that none of what you propose is even
practical, and will not do a damned thing about
pilot suicide or aircraft systems failure either.
As said before, and worth repeating; You are a nobody
that doesn't value the passengers or flight crews.
Repeating that lie changes nothing, Goebbels.
Post by Brad Guth
Our FEMA and the NWO
No such animal.
Post by Brad Guth
hires individuals exactly like yourself,
Wrong, as always.
Post by Brad Guth
because culling 94+% of humanity
That number is straight from your
arse, we can tell from the smell.
Post by Brad Guth
is one of their future steps, as pointed
out by our Georgia Guidestones.
Your problem, as always.

The first one alone is mindlessly silly and not even possible.
F Murtz
2014-04-21 09:02:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by 1***@gmail.com
Post by Paul Saccani
It is likely that the total payout will be less than $US450 million,
possibly much less, dependant on the cause. Or what the courts think
the cause is.
And what about the costs of the search on top of that?
I have seen estimates of 50 to 100 million dollars, depending on how long
it takes.
The true all-inclusive search and recovery cost will be at least tenfold more than we're being told.
The more is redundant.
Brad Guth
2014-04-21 13:52:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cees Binkhorst
http://iheartmatlab.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/analysis-of-suspected-mh370-pings.html
Wednesday, April 9, 2014
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
So this is a bit of a deviation from my normal MATLAB oriented posts.
In-fact MATLAB was not used once in this analysis!
I've been following the MH370 disappearance since it happened. With such
a lack of confirmed information there have been a lot of interesting
theories discussed on multiple forums (Whirlpool and PPRUNE are a couple
of interesting ones).
As I have a knowledge in acoustics (I am an Analyst / Software Engineer
for an underwater acoustics company and I specialise in tracking things
with pingers fitted to them), I've been trying to spread facts when I
know them and try and dispel myths.
Today I saw an interesting video from Sky News on a forum of the
suspected MH370 pings recorded by ADV Ocean Shield using the SUBSALV
I thought I would see if I could glean any information from the audio in
the publicly released video. In particular I was wanting to look at the
inter-ping interval to see how steady it was to try and determine if the
noise is man-made or natural (ie marine mammal noise).
The signal is quite noisy with ambient ship noise and other transients
(scuffing of shoes on deck!) but a repeated click can be heard.
Process
Extracted the audio from the Youtube video using a web-based MP3
extractor
Opened the MP3 in Adobe Audition and trimmed the file to the time
segment corresponding to good audio (start time 41.787s from beginning
of file, duration 22.462 seconds)
Bandpass filtered the audio between 2kHz and 10kHz to remove LF
ambient noise (NOTE: the 'pinger' is audible at about 3.4kHz however it
obviously has been demodulated down from the raw signal observed on the
TPL-25 to bring into the audible range)
Filtered Time Domain Signal - Red ticks added at repeated 'ping' noise
A manual search of the waveform (zooming in tight where necessary)
was performed to measure the start time of each ping transient to within
a couple of wavelengths
Results
The detection times of the pings are listed in the table below along
with some basic statistics.
Ping # Time (s) Interval (s)
1 0.758
2 1.861 1.103
3 2.964 1.103
4 4.067 1.103
5 5.171 1.104
6 6.274 1.103
7 7.38 1.106
8 8.486 1.106
9 9.592 1.106
10 10.696 1.104
11 11.801 1.105
12 12.907 1.106
13 14.014 1.107
14 15.12 1.106
15 16.226 1.106
16 17.333 1.107
18 19.549 1.108
19 20.657 1.108
20 21.764 1.107
Mean 1.10544
Std Dev 0.00172
As you can see, the ping interval is very stable with an average of
1.105s and standard deviation of less than 2ms.
This is incredibly stable over the 20 seconds that I've looked at and
very unlikely to be a marine mammal (ie beaked or sperm whale) which DO
create broadband pulses at regular intervals, but I've never seen them
that regular.
This strongly suggests the recorded signal is man-made. Highly probably
it is from the Underwater Locator Beacon due to the very close match to
the expected ping rate of 0.9Hz or 1 ping per 1.111 seconds.
However it COULD be from other repetitive signal sources such as a stray
echo sounder nearby; although that would be a soul crushing
disappointment to all onboard ADV Ocean Shield and the other involved in
the search. Also.. WHAT CRAZY PERSON WOULD PUT A SOUNDER ON DURING AN
ACOUSTIC SEARCH!?!
One last thing to note about the observed ping intervals is that they
appear to increase slightly over time (order of 4ms). Whilst the sample
set isn't long enough to show consistency, I see patterns like these all
the time when tracking moving items fitted with pingers from stationary
receivers (conceptually the same thing as the stationary pinger and
moving receiver on ADV Ocean Shield).
- The decreasing battery voltage is causing the ping interval to
increase. However it doesn't seem likely this phenomenon would be
observed over such a short time window
- The audio recording segment corresponds to when the towed pinger
locator has performed a Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and is now
opening in range from the source. When this happens a effect similar to
Doppler occurs in that the time between successive pings appears to
increase as because between successive pings the receiver has moved
further away.
For the segment analysed it corresponds to a slant range increase of 6
metres over 20 seconds, or 0.3m/s or 0.6 knots. If the towed pinger
locator is transiting at 2 knots and the depth of the receiver is known,
you could estimate a very rough range to the source by looking at the
vector component in the horizontal direction. (its late where I am but
I'll try and do some example calculations tomorrow)
Posted by Rodney Thomson at 12:45 AM
At that depth and with known thermal layer issues; how many miles off-target could we be?
Cees Binkhorst
2014-04-21 15:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Cees Binkhorst
http://iheartmatlab.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/analysis-of-suspected-mh370-pings.html
Wednesday, April 9, 2014
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
So this is a bit of a deviation from my normal MATLAB oriented posts.
In-fact MATLAB was not used once in this analysis!
I've been following the MH370 disappearance since it happened. With such
a lack of confirmed information there have been a lot of interesting
[part posting deleted]
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Cees Binkhorst
Posted by Rodney Thomson at 12:45 AM
At that depth and with known thermal layer issues; how many miles off-target could we be?
The analyses is not done by me.

From what I understand of the issues involved any ONE recording and
analyses does not give ANY understanding which way to go.

Mostly because NOBODY knows which thermal layers (leave alone thermal
and saline differences) there are and WHEN there is enough data to make
an educated guess, the value of knowledge gained has a limited 'shelve
life' because of the constant changes in thermal layers.
Compare a lightsignal traveling in a glass fibre. The signal will travel
in the length of the fibre but also bounce between the sides.

Based on:
expected ping rate of 0.9Hz or 1 ping per 1.111 seconds
Mean 1.10544
Std Dev 0.00172
increase slightly over time (order of 4ms)
speed and direction of ship

I would think that because of the increase of 4ms the ship is moving
away from the location of the black box. The speed of the ship has to be
taken into account.

After a change in direction of e.g. 90 degrees the value of 4ms will
also change and the value of the change, together with the new speed of
the ship, is a measure of the change in direction relative to the black box.

The difference between the value of 1.111 seconds and the mean +/- std
dev most likely gives a very rough range of distance between ship and
black box (the speed of the signal will reduce with a.o. the distance
because of 'bouncing in the water layer' ).

With each seperate measurement the area where the black box can be will
reduce.

After the Chinese received the first signal the location of search was
moved north a few hundred miles. This was apparently enough for a change
in the search area!

From what I understand the area has now been reduced to some 10's of
square kilometers. That is after 4 different signals?

Regards / Cees
Brad Guth
2014-04-21 16:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cees Binkhorst
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Cees Binkhorst
http://iheartmatlab.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/analysis-of-suspected-mh370-pings.html
Wednesday, April 9, 2014
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
So this is a bit of a deviation from my normal MATLAB oriented posts.
In-fact MATLAB was not used once in this analysis!
I've been following the MH370 disappearance since it happened. With such
a lack of confirmed information there have been a lot of interesting
[part posting deleted]
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Cees Binkhorst
Posted by Rodney Thomson at 12:45 AM
At that depth and with known thermal layer issues; how many miles off-target could we be?
The analyses is not done by me.
From what I understand of the issues involved any ONE recording and
analyses does not give ANY understanding which way to go.
Mostly because NOBODY knows which thermal layers (leave alone thermal
and saline differences) there are and WHEN there is enough data to make
an educated guess, the value of knowledge gained has a limited 'shelve
life' because of the constant changes in thermal layers.
Compare a lightsignal traveling in a glass fibre. The signal will travel
in the length of the fibre but also bounce between the sides.
expected ping rate of 0.9Hz or 1 ping per 1.111 seconds
Mean 1.10544
Std Dev 0.00172
increase slightly over time (order of 4ms)
speed and direction of ship
I would think that because of the increase of 4ms the ship is moving
away from the location of the black box. The speed of the ship has to be
taken into account.
After a change in direction of e.g. 90 degrees the value of 4ms will
also change and the value of the change, together with the new speed of
the ship, is a measure of the change in direction relative to the black box.
The difference between the value of 1.111 seconds and the mean +/- std
dev most likely gives a very rough range of distance between ship and
black box (the speed of the signal will reduce with a.o. the distance
because of 'bouncing in the water layer' ).
With each seperate measurement the area where the black box can be will
reduce.
After the Chinese received the first signal the location of search was
moved north a few hundred miles. This was apparently enough for a change
in the search area!
From what I understand the area has now been reduced to some 10's of
square kilometers. That is after 4 different signals?
Regards / Cees
It sounds like a minimum 100 square km area needs to be searched, although it's a very large target of which conventional submarine sonar scans should offer sufficient resolution.

Other than winter setting in, there's no great hurry unless there is some terrorist/NWO skulduggery or Boeing engineered issues still active, which puts all commercial flights at risk.
Paul Saccani
2014-04-21 18:50:39 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 17:16:38 +0200, Cees Binkhorst
Post by Cees Binkhorst
The analyses is not done by me.
From what I understand of the issues involved any ONE recording and
analyses does not give ANY understanding which way to go.
Mostly because NOBODY knows which thermal layers (leave alone thermal
and saline differences) there are and WHEN there is enough data to make
an educated guess, the value of knowledge gained has a limited 'shelve
life' because of the constant changes in thermal layers.
Expendable probes are available for use in ASW and presumably would
have been used. The deep tow depth of the dedicated pinger locator
tends to help with these issues too.
Post by Cees Binkhorst
After the Chinese received the first signal the location of search was
moved north a few hundred miles. This was apparently enough for a change
in the search area!
ADV Ocean Shield was already several hundred miles north of the Haixun
Post by Cees Binkhorst
From what I understand the area has now been reduced to some 10's of
square kilometers. That is after 4 different signals?
That's my understanding too.
--
Cheers,
Paul Saccani
Perth, Western Australia.
Rod Speed
2014-04-21 19:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Cees Binkhorst
http://iheartmatlab.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/analysis-of-suspected-mh370-pings.html
Wednesday, April 9, 2014
Analysis of suspected MH370 pings recorded by Ocean Shield
So this is a bit of a deviation from my normal MATLAB oriented posts.
In-fact MATLAB was not used once in this analysis!
I've been following the MH370 disappearance since it happened. With such
a lack of confirmed information there have been a lot of interesting
theories discussed on multiple forums (Whirlpool and PPRUNE are a couple
of interesting ones).
As I have a knowledge in acoustics (I am an Analyst / Software Engineer
for an underwater acoustics company and I specialise in tracking things
with pingers fitted to them), I've been trying to spread facts when I
know them and try and dispel myths.
Today I saw an interesting video from Sky News on a forum of the
suspected MH370 pings recorded by ADV Ocean Shield using the SUBSALV
I thought I would see if I could glean any information from the audio in
the publicly released video. In particular I was wanting to look at the
inter-ping interval to see how steady it was to try and determine if the
noise is man-made or natural (ie marine mammal noise).
The signal is quite noisy with ambient ship noise and other transients
(scuffing of shoes on deck!) but a repeated click can be heard.
Process
Extracted the audio from the Youtube video using a web-based MP3
extractor
Opened the MP3 in Adobe Audition and trimmed the file to the time
segment corresponding to good audio (start time 41.787s from beginning
of file, duration 22.462 seconds)
Bandpass filtered the audio between 2kHz and 10kHz to remove LF
ambient noise (NOTE: the 'pinger' is audible at about 3.4kHz however it
obviously has been demodulated down from the raw signal observed on the
TPL-25 to bring into the audible range)
Filtered Time Domain Signal - Red ticks added at repeated 'ping' noise
A manual search of the waveform (zooming in tight where necessary)
was performed to measure the start time of each ping transient to within
a couple of wavelengths
Results
The detection times of the pings are listed in the table below along
with some basic statistics.
Ping # Time (s) Interval (s)
1 0.758
2 1.861 1.103
3 2.964 1.103
4 4.067 1.103
5 5.171 1.104
6 6.274 1.103
7 7.38 1.106
8 8.486 1.106
9 9.592 1.106
10 10.696 1.104
11 11.801 1.105
12 12.907 1.106
13 14.014 1.107
14 15.12 1.106
15 16.226 1.106
16 17.333 1.107
18 19.549 1.108
19 20.657 1.108
20 21.764 1.107
Mean 1.10544
Std Dev 0.00172
As you can see, the ping interval is very stable with an average of
1.105s and standard deviation of less than 2ms.
This is incredibly stable over the 20 seconds that I've looked at and
very unlikely to be a marine mammal (ie beaked or sperm whale) which DO
create broadband pulses at regular intervals, but I've never seen them
that regular.
This strongly suggests the recorded signal is man-made. Highly probably
it is from the Underwater Locator Beacon due to the very close match to
the expected ping rate of 0.9Hz or 1 ping per 1.111 seconds.
However it COULD be from other repetitive signal sources such as a stray
echo sounder nearby; although that would be a soul crushing
disappointment to all onboard ADV Ocean Shield and the other involved in
the search. Also.. WHAT CRAZY PERSON WOULD PUT A SOUNDER ON DURING AN
ACOUSTIC SEARCH!?!
One last thing to note about the observed ping intervals is that they
appear to increase slightly over time (order of 4ms). Whilst the sample
set isn't long enough to show consistency, I see patterns like these all
the time when tracking moving items fitted with pingers from stationary
receivers (conceptually the same thing as the stationary pinger and
moving receiver on ADV Ocean Shield).
- The decreasing battery voltage is causing the ping interval to
increase. However it doesn't seem likely this phenomenon would be
observed over such a short time window
- The audio recording segment corresponds to when the towed pinger
locator has performed a Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and is now
opening in range from the source. When this happens a effect similar to
Doppler occurs in that the time between successive pings appears to
increase as because between successive pings the receiver has moved
further away.
For the segment analysed it corresponds to a slant range increase of 6
metres over 20 seconds, or 0.3m/s or 0.6 knots. If the towed pinger
locator is transiting at 2 knots and the depth of the receiver is known,
you could estimate a very rough range to the source by looking at the
vector component in the horizontal direction. (its late where I am but
I'll try and do some example calculations tomorrow)
Posted by Rodney Thomson at 12:45 AM
At that depth and with known thermal layer issues; how many miles off-target could we be?
No one knows, that has never been rigorously studied.

The known pinger locations arent all that far apart tho.
Brad Guth
2014-04-21 21:47:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
At that depth and with known thermal layer issues; how many miles
off-target could we be?
No one knows, that has never been rigorously studied.
The known pinger locations arent all that far apart tho.
Conventional nuclear powered submarines with their extremely powerful sonar and otherwise ultra-sensitive listening would have to know, because their cloak and dagger missions are based almost entirely upon knowing such things.
Rod Speed
2014-04-21 22:28:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Guth
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brad Guth
At that depth and with known thermal layer issues;
how many miles off-target could we be?
No one knows, that has never been rigorously studied.
The known pinger locations arent all that far apart tho.
Conventional nuclear powered submarines with
their extremely powerful sonar and otherwise
ultra-sensitive listening would have to know,
Not that particular question of how far the thermal
layers can see something like that is off target they don't,
because those thermal layers are changing all the time.
Post by Brad Guth
because their cloak and dagger missions are
based almost entirely upon knowing such things.
But they can't know what thermal layers were
there at the time those pings were detected.

Even the aircraft deployable systems which leave what
any submarine can do for dead can't in that situation.

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