"Since You Went Away" (1944)

[Jack Stalnaker]

I recently watched this 1944 Selznick tear-jerker for the first time in many
years and, having explored both James Agee's and Pauline Kael's perceptions
of the film, I expected to either hate it or laugh hysterically at it.

But I ended up completely fascinated by all the flag-waving and Our Way Of
Life propaganda. It was a glimpse at another but not really so distant era.
Since we are once more at war, I was trying to imagine a John Waters' remake
of "Since You Went Away." But alas, without Divine there would be nobody to
take on the Claudette Colbert role.

Seriously, "Since You Went Away" is beautifully photographed and has lots to
recommend it: Monty Woolley's archness, Hattie McDaniel's malapropisms,
Shirley Temple With Tits, and, of course, Nazimova mistaking poor Claudette
for the Statue of Liberty. Also, Joseph Cotton and Agnes Moorehead wander in
and out. (Isn't it amazing how many really fine pictures Joseph Cotton turns
up in? Don't miss 1970's "The Grasshopper.")

Then there's that short and rather odd sequence with Guy Madison, making his
film debut here as a sailor picked up (!) in a bowling alley by Jennifer
Jones and Robert Walker. In terms of dramatic intensity, the Guy Madison of
the later "Wild Bill Hickock" TV series was on a par with Olivier compared
with the Guy Madison of "Since You Went Away." But as a friend of mine
points out: when you look like Guy Madison you don't really need to know how
to act.

The Leonard Maltin Bible points out that John Derek also made his film debut
here, but I somehow missed him. Could I have been distracted by Shirley
Temple With Tits?

Now I have to watch the whole silly thing over. (172 minutes...!!!)


JCS


http://www.meekermuseum.com/
**************************************************************
The Meeker Museum is a nonprofit, nonexistent organization
dedicated to the pursuit of inner peace through movie stars.

[Cicero]

(Isn't it amazing how many really fine pictures Joseph Cotton turns

Post by Jack Stalnaker
up in? Don't miss 1970's "The Grasshopper.")

It's also amazing how many crap movies he turns up in later in his career. I
can't see why- surely he didn't need the money.

[Charles Eggen]

Post by Jack Stalnaker
(Isn't it amazing how many really fine pictures Joseph Cotton turns

Post by Jack Stalnaker
up in? Don't miss 1970's "The Grasshopper.")

It's also amazing how many crap movies he turns up in later in his career. I
can't see why- surely he didn't need the money.

When your first film is 'Citizen Kane' it's rather difficult to go
uphill from there. AFAIK his last one was a miserable thing called
'The House Where Evil Dwells'(1982). A few years before that (1973) he
had a major role in the relatively unknown, 'Timber Tramps'. That film
has the distinction of containing an amazing number of actors on their
way downhill - Leon Ames, Claude Akins, Cesar Romero, Rosey Grier, Tab
Hunter, Stubby Kaye and a couple who hadn't been seen for years - Eve
Brent and Patricia Medina. It also was the next to last film directed
by Tay Garnett. It is also a rare film in that it is one of a handful
of titles that have actually been filmed in southeast Alaska.

Charles
nzvideos.org

[Tom Sutpen]

Post by Charles Eggen
When your first film is 'Citizen Kane' it's rather difficult to go
uphill from there. AFAIK his last one was a miserable thing called
'The House Where Evil Dwells'(1982). A few years before that (1973) he
had a major role in the relatively unknown, 'Timber Tramps'. That film
has the distinction of containing an amazing number of actors on their
way downhill - Leon Ames, Claude Akins, Cesar Romero, Rosey Grier, Tab
Hunter, Stubby Kaye and a couple who hadn't been seen for years - Eve
Brent and Patricia Medina. It also was the next to last film directed
by Tay Garnett.

*****
You don't say. Was Garnett still moving the camera a lot then?

Tom Sutpen

"Cinema is Truth, 24 Times a Second"
-- Jean-Luc Godard

The Truth is 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy; a terrible, terrible
lie that someone gave the people long ago.
-- Lenny Bruce

http://tsutpen.blogspot.com

[FilmGene]

<<You don't say. Was Garnett still moving the camera a lot then?

Tom Sutpen>>

Tom, you are the only other person I have run across who has said that about
Garnett. I have a 1932 RKO called "Prestige" which not only has two astounding
ten-minute takes in the first 2 reels, but has the most delirious camerawork I
have seen outside of Ophuls.

I had lunch with him in the mid-seventies, but I was too dumb then to ask him
about such things. :-(


Gene Stavis, School of Visual Arts - NYC

[Tom Sutpen]

Post by FilmGene
Tom, you are the only other person I have run across who has said that about
Garnett. I have a 1932 RKO called "Prestige" which not only has two astounding
ten-minute takes in the first 2 reels, but has the most delirious camerawork I
have seen outside of Ophuls.

*****
I have a copy of "Prestige", too. Pretty amazing movie (apart from
everything else, it has to be the very first American film set in Vietnam). And
it's hard not to notice the camerawork in Garnett's pictures; especially in the
early 30s. While directors like William Wellman and Lewis Milestone and Capra
were also moving the camera a lot then, they were doing it more deliberately.
What you see in Tay Garnett's movies is a lot closer to the kind of
unrestrained Steadicam-rendered stuff (most of it not nearly as inspired) that
we see today.

Post by FilmGene
I had lunch with him in the mid-seventies, but I was too dumb then to ask him
about such things. :-(

*****
Damn. I'm officially envious. How did you get to hang out with Tay
Garnett?

Talk about cool.

Tom Sutpen

"Cinema is Truth, 24 Times a Second"
-- Jean-Luc Godard

The Truth is 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy; a terrible, terrible
lie that someone gave the people long ago.
-- Lenny Bruce

http://tsutpen.blogspot.com

[FilmGene]

<<Damn. I'm officially envious. How did you get to hang out with Tay
Garnett?>>

For the last ten years of his life, I was Henri Langlois' New York
representative. I also co-produced the series "The Men Who Made the Movies"
with Dick Schickel for PBS. During those occasions and when I accompanied Henri
to get his Oscar, I met virtually everybody who was still alive, from King
Vidor to Bill Wellman, Mae West to Tuesday Weld.

Garnett came to see me when I was working for Langlois at the Metropolitan
Museum of Art. We talked about a retrospective of his work which sadly never
happened. He was a very old man with a fancy walking stick, not particularly
well-dressed. I have since learned from friends that he was a bit hard-up in
the last days. Tragically sad.

By the way Bill Keighley and Genevieve Tobin lived across Fifth Avenue from the
Met and I spent a lot of time with them. Keighley was incapacitated from a
stroke, but Tobin was the most devoted wife I have ever seen. It was clear that
they were still very much in love. Oooh that Mitzi!

Like most things in life, these things came too early to me and I was woefully
unprepared to ask the questions I would be dying to ask today. When you have
time, I'll regale you with some of the stories.

One little tidbit about camera movement: In 1973, I was at a seminar on early
sound at Eastman House. Both Capra and Mamoulian were there. I had just seen
"Love Me Tonight" and I was fascinated by the several zoom shots in that film.
(Later I discoverted even earlier zoom material in "It", for instance.) I asked
Mamoulian about it and he was about to answer when Capra interrupted us and
said "We didn't use it much because we had taste then!".

Well, it was amusing, but hardly illuminating. I believe Mamoulian said that
George Barnes had developed a zoom lens in the late twenties and there was some
experimenting with it at the time, but it never caught on until it was
popularized by the economy-minded early television industry.


Gene Stavis, School of Visual Arts - NYC

[Tom Sutpen]

Post by FilmGene
<<Damn. I'm officially envious. How did you get to hang out with Tay
Garnett?>>
For the last ten years of his life, I was Henri Langlois' New York
representative. I also co-produced the series "The Men Who Made the Movies"
with Dick Schickel for PBS. During those occasions and when I accompanied Henri
to get his Oscar, I met virtually everybody who was still alive, from King
Vidor to Bill Wellman, Mae West to Tuesday Weld.

*****
Is there a point beyond Envy? Because I think I'm there.

Post by FilmGene
Garnett came to see me when I was working for Langlois at the Metropolitan
Museum of Art. We talked about a retrospective of his work which sadly never
happened. He was a very old man with a fancy walking stick, not particularly
well-dressed. I have since learned from friends that he was a bit hard-up in
the last days. Tragically sad.
By the way Bill Keighley and Genevieve Tobin lived across Fifth Avenue from the
Met and I spent a lot of time with them. Keighley was incapacitated from a
stroke, but Tobin was the most devoted wife I have ever seen. It was clear that
they were still very much in love. Oooh that Mitzi!
Like most things in life, these things came too early to me and I was woefully
unprepared to ask the questions I would be dying to ask today. When you have
time, I'll regale you with some of the stories.

*****
Anytime, Gene. I mean that. I have an endless capacity for listening to
tales about lost and forgotten filmmakers. To me there's something extremely
moving about these artists and their efforts to maintain their dignity (your
story about Tay Garnett, for example) and move through their lives after
Hollywood had, often quite cruelly, washed its hands of them. I know that many
of them found retrospective honor from cinephiles, but I still believe that, to
a man, they all deserved better.
So as I say, anytime you wanna tell us about that period, I'll be there to
listen.

Post by FilmGene
One little tidbit about camera movement: In 1973, I was at a seminar on early
sound at Eastman House. Both Capra and Mamoulian were there. I had just seen
"Love Me Tonight" and I was fascinated by the several zoom shots in that film.
(Later I discoverted even earlier zoom material in "It", for instance.) I asked
Mamoulian about it and he was about to answer when Capra interrupted us and
said "We didn't use it much because we had taste then!".

*****
Great. Thanks for checking in, Frank.

Was there a moment in his later life when Frank Capra wasn't totally
embittered? I'll bet if he'd gone on he'd have told you how, if it hadn't been
for Mike Frankovich, he'd still be on top.

But thanks for your reminiscence, Gene. I greatly appreciated it.

Tom Sutpen

"Cinema is Truth, 24 Times a Second"
-- Jean-Luc Godard

The Truth is 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy; a terrible, terrible
lie that someone gave the people long ago.
-- Lenny Bruce

http://tsutpen.blogspot.com

[James Neibaur]

Post by Jack Stalnaker
I recently watched this 1944 Selznick tear-jerker for the first time in many
years and, having explored both James Agee's and Pauline Kael's perceptions
of the film, I expected to either hate it or laugh hysterically at it.
But I ended up completely fascinated by all the flag-waving and Our Way Of
Life propaganda. It was a glimpse at another but not really so distant era.

If you put yourself within its time frame, realizing that such a film can't
help being dated, you can really enjoy a movie like Since You Went Away. It
flies on the strength of its performers.

I like Lloyd Corrigan as the bereaved father best.

JN

[aesthete8]

That film seems to always be described as a tearjerker, but I feel
that it is more than that. Much more.

And I have to come to better appreciate Jennifer Jones' febrile
intensity. I think that if she had played Scarlett O'Hara, she would
have made it more of a complex psychological portrayal.

Post by James Neibaur

Post by Jack Stalnaker
I recently watched this 1944 Selznick tear-jerker for the first time in many
years and, having explored both James Agee's and Pauline Kael's perceptions
of the film, I expected to either hate it or laugh hysterically at it.
But I ended up completely fascinated by all the flag-waving and Our Way Of
Life propaganda. It was a glimpse at another but not really so distant era.

If you put yourself within its time frame, realizing that such a film can't
help being dated, you can really enjoy a movie like Since You Went Away. It
flies on the strength of its performers.
I like Lloyd Corrigan as the bereaved father best.
JN

[David]

Post by aesthete8
And I have to come to better appreciate Jennifer Jones' febrile
intensity. I think that if she had played Scarlett O'Hara, she would
have made it more of a complex psychological portrayal.

But she did! Vidor directed it.

[Ron Wilbanks]

Post by aesthete8
And I have to come to better appreciate Jennifer Jones' febrile
intensity. I think that if she had played Scarlett O'Hara, she would
have made it more of a complex psychological portrayal.

It's ironic you should say this. In a film history class that I took,
my professor was asked, "what if Jennifer Jones was cast as Scarlett in
Gone With The Wind, and made after World War II?" He gave it some
thought, and said that it would have given the character psychological
portrayal (as you said), but more than likely a "film noir" look and
feel as well. When you think about it, this might have been a rather
interesting movie.

[Tom Cervo]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[James Neibaur]

Post by Tom Cervo
I'm sure there's a James Agee review somewhere that puts the thing in its
place.

Oh, well, then in that case....

JN

[David]

Post by Jack Stalnaker
Then there's that short and rather odd sequence with Guy Madison, making his
film debut here as a sailor picked up (!) in a bowling alley by Jennifer
Jones and Robert Walker. In terms of dramatic intensity, the Guy Madison of
the later "Wild Bill Hickock" TV series was on a par with Olivier compared
with the Guy Madison of "Since You Went Away."

"Since You Went Away" is my least favorite of those homefront things
-- "The Best Years of Our Lives" & that other one with Guy Madison &
Bob Mitchum are more Playhouse-90ish. I get into them more. "Since" is
just schmaltzy.

[Frank R.A.J. Maloney]

Post by David

Post by Jack Stalnaker
Then there's that short and rather odd sequence with Guy Madison, making his
film debut here as a sailor picked up (!) in a bowling alley by Jennifer
Jones and Robert Walker. In terms of dramatic intensity, the Guy Madison of
the later "Wild Bill Hickock" TV series was on a par with Olivier compared
with the Guy Madison of "Since You Went Away."

"Since You Went Away" is my least favorite of those homefront things
-- "The Best Years of Our Lives" & that other one with Guy Madison &
Bob Mitchum are more Playhouse-90ish. I get into them more. "Since" is
just schmaltzy.

"The other one" is _Till the End of Time_ (1946) also with Dorothy McGuire
and Bill Williams (the late husband of Barbara Hale) as the vet who's lost
the use of his legs.

Less soapy and far and away my favorite of the Home Front films is _Mrs.
Miniver_ (1942). The scene where Greer Garson is trapped in her own kitchen
with Helmut Dantine is tense and exciting. The service in the bombed out
ruins of the village church is uplifting and always good for tears.

[Tom Sutpen]

Post by David

Post by Jack Stalnaker
Then there's that short and rather odd sequence with Guy Madison, making his
film debut here as a sailor picked up (!) in a bowling alley by Jennifer
Jones and Robert Walker. In terms of dramatic intensity, the Guy Madison of
the later "Wild Bill Hickock" TV series was on a par with Olivier compared
with the Guy Madison of "Since You Went Away."

"Since You Went Away" is my least favorite of those homefront things
-- "The Best Years of Our Lives" & that other one with Guy Madison &
Bob Mitchum are more Playhouse-90ish. I get into them more. "Since" is
just schmaltzy.

*****
Scmaltzy it is, but I've never seen schmaltz that looked so striking. I
don't know if it was John Cromwell's doing or Selznick's or if it was just the
cinematographers (Lee Garmes and Stanley Cortez) asserting themselves but,
visually speaking, "Since You Went Away" had more in common with something like
"Phantom Lady" or "Murder, My Sweet" than it did a picture like "The Best Years
of Our Lives". So much of the picture is drenched in shadow that it almost
seems like a deliberately ironic counterpoint to the rest of the movie.

Tom Sutpen

"Cinema is Truth, 24 Times a Second"
-- Jean-Luc Godard

The Truth is 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy; a terrible, terrible
lie that someone gave the people long ago.
-- Lenny Bruce

http://tsutpen.blogspot.com

[Kingo Gondo]

"> Then there's that short and rather odd sequence with Guy Madison, making
his

Post by Jack Stalnaker
film debut here as a sailor picked up (!) in a bowling alley by Jennifer
Jones and Robert Walker. In terms of dramatic intensity, the Guy Madison of
the later "Wild Bill Hickock" TV series was on a par with Olivier compared
with the Guy Madison of "Since You Went Away." But as a friend of mine
points out: when you look like Guy Madison you don't really need to know how
to act.

My Mom tells me she had pictures of Guy Madison all over her room when she
was an adolescent.

I prefer to stop thinking about the matter at this point.

[Stephen Cooke]

Post by Kingo Gondo
"> Then there's that short and rather odd sequence with Guy Madison, making
his

Post by Jack Stalnaker
film debut here as a sailor picked up (!) in a bowling alley by Jennifer
Jones and Robert Walker. In terms of dramatic intensity, the Guy Madison

of

Post by Jack Stalnaker
the later "Wild Bill Hickock" TV series was on a par with Olivier compared
with the Guy Madison of "Since You Went Away." But as a friend of mine
points out: when you look like Guy Madison you don't really need to know

how

Post by Jack Stalnaker
to act.

My Mom tells me she had pictures of Guy Madison all over her room when she
was an adolescent.

That reminds me of this woman I met whose dad owned a small town movie
theatre in the '50s, and although she could have any posters she wanted,
mostly she just wanted posters and lobby cards from Jeff Chandler films.

Actually, she did have some lovely lobby cards from the first release of
It's a Wonderful Life, but mostly it was just Chandler stuff.

swac
Oh for a Dial M For Murder or Sunset Boulevard one-sheet...

[W. Lydecker]

< "..although she could have any posters she wanted, mostly she just
wanted posters and lobby cards from Jeff Chandler films." >
################################## Were she and Jeff the same size?

[Tom Sutpen]

Post by W. Lydecker
< "..although she could have any posters she wanted, mostly she just
wanted posters and lobby cards from Jeff Chandler films." >
################################## Were she and Jeff the same size?

*****
Hmmmmm . . .

Hey, is that a not-so-thinly veiled Jeff Chandler/Transvestism joke?

(Esther Williams claims he stretched out all her nylons. Who knows?)

Tom Sutpen

"Cinema is Truth, 24 Times a Second"
-- Jean-Luc Godard

The Truth is 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy; a terrible, terrible
lie that someone gave the people long ago.
-- Lenny Bruce

http://tsutpen.blogspot.com

[Stephen Cooke]

Post by W. Lydecker
< "..although she could have any posters she wanted, mostly she just
wanted posters and lobby cards from Jeff Chandler films." >
################################## Were she and Jeff the same size?

No, but their colours matched...I think he was a winter...

swac

[EBs friend]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[John Harkness]

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 17:31:23 GMT, "Kingo Gondo"

Post by Kingo Gondo
"> Then there's that short and rather odd sequence with Guy Madison, making
his

Post by Jack Stalnaker
film debut here as a sailor picked up (!) in a bowling alley by Jennifer
Jones and Robert Walker. In terms of dramatic intensity, the Guy Madison

of

Post by Jack Stalnaker
the later "Wild Bill Hickock" TV series was on a par with Olivier compared
with the Guy Madison of "Since You Went Away." But as a friend of mine
points out: when you look like Guy Madison you don't really need to know

how

Post by Jack Stalnaker
to act.

My Mom tells me she had pictures of Guy Madison all over her room when she
was an adolescent.
I prefer to stop thinking about the matter at this point.

My mom liked Ronald Reagan... and, she once told me, much preferred
the Ritz Brothers to the Marx Brothers. At that moment, I knew I was
adopted.

John Harkness

[Tom Cervo]

Post by Kingo Gondo
My Mom tells me she had pictures of Guy Madison all over her room when she
was an adolescent.
I prefer to stop thinking about the matter at this point.

He was the actor Curtis Hanson told Guy Pearce to model himself on in "L.A.
Confidential"

[Tom Sutpen]

Post by Jack Stalnaker
(Isn't it amazing how many really fine pictures Joseph Cotton turns
up in? Don't miss 1970's "The Grasshopper.")

*****
Yike. I thought I was the only person on the planet who liked that movie.

Tom Sutpen

"Cinema is Truth, 24 Times a Second"
-- Jean-Luc Godard

The Truth is 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy; a terrible, terrible
lie that someone gave the people long ago.
-- Lenny Bruce

http://tsutpen.blogspot.com