FAQ: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)?

[!! Atheist ------------------------------]

Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.

However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

[m***@btopenworld.com]

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.

Of course there is!

Millions of people believe in him. Many devote their lives to him. Some have even died for him. He is in them! How can you possibly say he does not exist?

Now, of course, if he is not in you, if you don't believe in him, then for you he can't exist. What you seek is a material being. What evidence do you have that he can only take the form?

[johnny-knowall]

On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 12:31:48 PM UTC, !! Atheist

Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.

Of course there is!
Millions of people believe in him. Many devote their lives to him. Some have
even died for him. He is in them! How can you possibly say he does not exist?

Although no one said he didn’t exist. They asked if there was any
verifiable evidence; and your idea of belief being evidence does not prove
anything except you lie even more than you accuse me of doing.

Now, of course, if he is not in you, if you don't believe in him, then for
you he can't exist. What you seek is a material being. What evidence do you
have that he can only take the form?

The same evidence that we have for him not to exist in any form - none.

You seem to be placing your god on the same level as leprechauns.

[m***@btopenworld.com]

Post by johnny-knowall

On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 12:31:48 PM UTC, !! Atheist

Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.

Of course there is!
Millions of people believe in him. Many devote their lives to him. Some have
even died for him. He is in them! How can you possibly say he does not exist?

Although no one said he didn’t exist. They asked if there was any
verifiable evidence; and your idea of belief being evidence does not prove
anything except you lie even more than you accuse me of doing.

Which presupposes that to qualify as proof or evidence then evidence has to have material nature and is denied abstract form. Possess the quality of reality. But abstract forms can have reality. A mathematical concept for instance.

The people I have described possess faith. Faith is real. It steers people in particular ways. The Good Book has it sussed:

"Except ye be converted, and become as little children, [have total trust in faith] ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 18:3

It takes some chewing over but:

Religion is faith without it there can be no religion or belief and hence no God. Rationality has nothing to do with religion. You are operating at another level or in a a different dimension

Post by johnny-knowall
The same evidence that we have for him not to exist in any form - none.

You can't respectably prove a negative for a start.

Post by johnny-knowall
You seem to be placing your god on the same level as leprechauns.

And in a sense he is. There used to be belief in fairies/good spirits/ evil spirits. So long as that belief persisted they existed in reality or consciousness. Materially of course, they didn't.

[Farmer Giles]

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by johnny-knowall

On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 12:31:48 PM UTC, !! Atheist

Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.

Of course there is!
Millions of people believe in him. Many devote their lives to him. Some have
even died for him. He is in them! How can you possibly say he does not exist?

Although no one said he didn’t exist. They asked if there was any
verifiable evidence; and your idea of belief being evidence does not prove
anything except you lie even more than you accuse me of doing.

Which presupposes that to qualify as proof or evidence then evidence has to have material nature and is denied abstract form. Possess the quality of reality. But abstract forms can have reality. A mathematical concept for instance.

The faith might be real, but that does mean that the god is.

Post by m***@btopenworld.com
"Except ye be converted, and become as little children, [have total trust in faith] ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 18:3
Religion is faith without it there can be no religion or belief and hence no God. Rationality has nothing to do with religion. You are operating at another level or in a a different dimension

Post by johnny-knowall
The same evidence that we have for him not to exist in any form - none.

You can't respectably prove a negative for a start.

That's where 'believers' come unstuck, and where agnostics - like me -
hold the only realistic view. I don't know if god exists, and neither do
they, the difference is that I don't know and admit it, but they claim
that they do - which they don't, they only think they do.

[johnny-knowall]

Post by johnny-knowall

On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 12:31:48 PM UTC, !! Atheist

Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.

Of course there is!
Millions of people believe in him. Many devote their lives to him. Some have
even died for him. He is in them! How can you possibly say he does not exist?

Although no one said he didn’t exist. They asked if there was any
verifiable evidence; and your idea of belief being evidence does not prove
anything except you lie even more than you accuse me of doing.

Which presupposes that to qualify as proof or evidence then evidence has to
have material nature and is denied abstract form. Possess the quality of
reality. But abstract forms can have reality. A mathematical concept for
instance.

But no one was asking that question.

They asked if there is verifiable evidence of god, which there is not.

The people I have described possess faith. Faith is real. It steers people in
"Except ye be converted, and become as little children, [have total trust in
faith] ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 18:3

Does that quote sound to you like it was the original text from the entity
which allegedly created heaven and earth, and loves everything?

Do as I say, or you will not get into my big after-life party?

Religion is faith without it there can be no religion or belief and hence no
God. Rationality has nothing to do with religion. You are operating at
another level or in a a different dimension

Post by johnny-knowall
The same evidence that we have for him not to exist in any form - none.

You can't respectably prove a negative for a start.

Post by johnny-knowall
You seem to be placing your god on the same level as leprechauns.

And in a sense he is.

And is there any verifiable evidence to show leprechauns exist?

No.

There used to be belief in fairies/good spirits/ evil
spirits.

Yes, “used to be”. In other words as humans became more intelligent they
began to discover why things (originally attributable to spirits) happened.

Maybe one day, humans will discover how to create a single cell reproducible
life-form from a soup of organic chemicals?

Where will religious texts stand then?

So long as that belief persisted they existed in reality or
consciousness. Materially of course, they didn't.

[abelard]

Post by johnny-knowall

On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 12:31:48 PM UTC, !! Atheist

Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.

Of course there is!
Millions of people believe in him. Many devote their lives to him. Some have
even died for him. He is in them! How can you possibly say he does not exist?

Although no one said he didn’t exist. They asked if there was any
verifiable evidence; and your idea of belief being evidence does not prove
anything except you lie even more than you accuse me of doing.

Which presupposes that to qualify as proof or evidence then evidence has to
have material nature and is denied abstract form. Possess the quality of
reality. But abstract forms can have reality. A mathematical concept for
instance.

But no one was asking that question.
They asked if there is verifiable evidence of god, which there is not.

The people I have described possess faith. Faith is real. It steers people in
"Except ye be converted, and become as little children, [have total trust in
faith] ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 18:3

Does that quote sound to you like it was the original text from the entity
which allegedly created heaven and earth, and loves everything?
Do as I say, or you will not get into my big after-life party?

Religion is faith without it there can be no religion or belief and hence no
God. Rationality has nothing to do with religion. You are operating at
another level or in a a different dimension

The same evidence that we have for him not to exist in any form - none.

You can't respectably prove a negative for a start.

You seem to be placing your god on the same level as leprechauns.

And in a sense he is.

And is there any verifiable evidence to show leprechauns exist?
No.

There used to be belief in fairies/good spirits/ evil
spirits.

Yes, “used to be”. In other words as humans became more intelligent they
began to discover why things (originally attributable to spirits) happened.

no 'they' didn't...'they' just made up ever more complex reasons

because of 'god' becomes because of 'gravity'
'the creation' become 'the big bang'....

vanity, vanity, all is vanity...ecclesiastes 1:2

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe one day, humans will discover how to create a single cell reproducible
life-form from a soup of organic chemicals?

out of nothing perhaps?

Post by johnny-knowall
Where will religious texts stand then?

just about where they are now

Post by johnny-knowall

So long as that belief persisted they existed in reality or
consciousness. Materially of course, they didn't.

[abelard]

Post by m***@btopenworld.com
And in a sense he is. There used to be belief in fairies/good spirits/ evil spirits. So long as that belief persisted they existed in reality or consciousness. Materially of course, they didn't.

the brain is material

so is the world which according to our mad atheist religion
appeared by magic...

just like that!

humans know nothing and atheists know even less

[James Hammerton]

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.

Of course there is!
Millions of people believe in him. Many devote their lives to him. Some have even died for him. He is in them!

I can certainly verify that millions believe in him, via surveys and
figures on membership of organisations dedicated to believing in him,
and that many "devote their lives to him", even that some have died. But
how do I verify "he is in them"? What does that mean?

Post by m***@btopenworld.com
How can you possibly say he does not exist?

By uttering the phrase "he does not exist"...

Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Now, of course, if he is not in you, if you don't believe in him, then for you he can't exist. What you seek is a material being. What evidence do you have that he can only take the form?

If he is an immaterial being, how does one detect his existence?

Regards,

James

[johnny-knowall]

Post by James Hammerton

On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 12:31:48 PM UTC, !! Atheist

Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.

Of course there is!
Millions of people believe in him. Many devote their lives to him. Some
have even died for him. He is in them!

I can certainly verify that millions believe in him, via surveys and
figures on membership of organisations dedicated to believing in him,
and that many "devote their lives to him", even that some have died. But
how do I verify "he is in them"? What does that mean?

How can you possibly say he does not exist?

By uttering the phrase "he does not exist"...

He might have existed of course. An alien spacecraft happened upon a blue
planet 2000 years ago, only to discover the inhabitants were unbelievably
backward.

So, they parked well above the atmosphere and teleported one of their leaders
here in order to turn him into a deity.

It doesn’t take much really. A few “miracles” and the undermining of a
disliked autocratic government regime were really all they needed.

Give the locals an easy to remember history lesson, and then “death” in a
cruel and painful ordeal seals the deal, after which the instant folk hero
can be teleported back down again just to wow the gullible; before the craft
and its crew bugger off (promising to come back some day) never to be seen
again.

[abelard]

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, "!! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

why?

you have your religion...why should anyone disturb it?

[!! Atheist ------------------------------]

Post by abelard
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, "!! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

why?

Seeking knowledge of what is most likely true, not mere un-evidenced belief.

[abelard]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:37:32 -0800, "!! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by abelard
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, "!! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

why?

Seeking knowledge of what is most likely true, not mere un-evidenced belief.

what is 'truth'?

interesting you now enter 'probability' in place of your
previous dogmatism...

[saracene]

Post by abelard
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:37:32 -0800, "!! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by abelard
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, "!! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

why?

Seeking knowledge of what is most likely true, not mere un-evidenced belief.

what is 'truth'?
interesting you now enter 'probability' in place of your
previous dogmatism...

He feels so strongly he's probably due for a Damascene moment.

[abelard]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 03:34:31 -0800 (PST), saracene

Post by saracene

Post by abelard
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:37:32 -0800, "!! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by abelard
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, "!! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

why?

Seeking knowledge of what is most likely true, not mere un-evidenced belief.

what is 'truth'?
interesting you now enter 'probability' in place of your
previous dogmatism...

He feels so strongly he's probably due for a Damascene moment.

the poor sod!

[Svenne]

Post by saracene
He feels so strongly he's probably due for a Damascene moment.

I had one of those in the Yorkshire Dales in 1969. It was the result of a
tab of very strong LSD one summer afternoon.

It made me wonder if The Bard had been on it when he said something about
Horatio's philosophy and what might be in Heaven and Earth.

[Svenne]

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

The above limitation is also why science cannot say anything about why
stuff exists and how it came into existence.

[johnny-knowall]

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist.

Well that rules out black holes for starters.

Maybe god is a black hole?

Post by Svenne
Since God is the creator of the universe

How can he create a universe which obeys the laws of physics if he is
external to it.

Who then created the laws of physics?

Post by Svenne
and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.
The above limitation is also why science cannot say anything about why
stuff exists and how it came into existence.

[Svenne]

Post by johnny-knowall

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist.

Well that rules out black holes for starters.

Much can be said about black holes, they are objects with an event
horizon, so far are the laws of physics applicable. The laws of physics
break down at the singularity.

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe god is a black hole?

No, a black hole is an object with an event horizon that exists in the
universe. The singularity is somewhat more tricky.

Post by johnny-knowall

Post by Svenne
Since God is the creator of the universe

How can he create a universe which obeys the laws of physics if he is
external to it.

Science cannot say anything about why stuff came into existence, only
that it did so. Science can only say how it works after it came into
existence.

Post by johnny-knowall
Who then created the laws of physics?

That is something that science cannot explain. Science can only be
concerned with things that are subject to its laws.

[Smiler]

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist.

Well that rules out black holes for starters.

Much can be said about black holes, they are objects with an event
horizon, so far are the laws of physics applicable. The laws of physics
break down at the singularity.

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe god is a black hole?

No, a black hole is an object with an event horizon that exists in the
universe.

Your supposed god doesn't.

Post by Svenne
The singularity is somewhat more tricky.

Post by johnny-knowall

Post by Svenne
Since God is the creator of the universe

Merely your unevidenced belief, until you provide evidence for your
supposed god and evidence that it created anything.

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall
How can he create a universe which obeys the laws of physics if he is
external to it.

Science cannot say anything about why stuff came into existence, only
that it did so. Science can only say how it works after it came into
existence.

Science also tells us how stuff came into existence, no god needed.

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall
Who then created the laws of physics?

That is something that science cannot explain.

Neither can you.
Why does it have to be a 'who'?

Post by Svenne
Science can only be
concerned with things that are subject to its laws.

Science is only concerned with reality.

[Svenne]

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe god is a black hole?

No, a black hole is an object with an event horizon that exists in the
universe.

Your supposed god doesn't.

That's what I said, God doesn't exist in the universe. I was quite clear
about that.

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
The singularity is somewhat more tricky.

Post by johnny-knowall

Post by Svenne
Since God is the creator of the universe

Merely your unevidenced belief, until you provide evidence for your
supposed god and evidence that it created anything.

There is an awful lot of stuff here, a whole universe of it, very complex
and running on intricate laws. Are you saying it created itself? Explain
how it created itself since to do that would need it to be in existence
before it came into existence.

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
Science cannot say anything about why stuff came into existence, only
that it did so. Science can only say how it works after it came into
existence.

Science also tells us how stuff came into existence, no god needed.

Explain where the big bang came from and what set it off.

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall
Who then created the laws of physics?

That is something that science cannot explain.

Neither can you.

Nobody can. All that can be said is that something really amazing is
going on and very little is understood about it. There are a few physical
laws that describe a bit about how it works, but not much else.

Post by Smiler
Why does it have to be a 'who'?

It doesn't.

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
Science can only be concerned with things that are subject to its laws.

Science is only concerned with reality.

Which is what I said. Science is limited to the universe and the stuff in
it.

[abelard]

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe god is a black hole?

No, a black hole is an object with an event horizon that exists in the
universe.

Your supposed god doesn't.

That's what I said, God doesn't exist in the universe. I was quite clear
about that.

clear as mud...

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
The singularity is somewhat more tricky.

Post by johnny-knowall

Post by Svenne
Since God is the creator of the universe

Merely your unevidenced belief, until you provide evidence for your
supposed god and evidence that it created anything.

There is an awful lot of stuff here, a whole universe of it, very complex
and running on intricate laws. Are you saying it created itself? Explain
how it created itself since to do that would need it to be in existence
before it came into existence.

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
Science cannot say anything about why stuff came into existence, only
that it did so. Science can only say how it works after it came into
existence.

Science also tells us how stuff came into existence, no god needed.

Explain where the big bang came from and what set it off.

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall
Who then created the laws of physics?

That is something that science cannot explain.

Neither can you.

Nobody can. All that can be said is that something really amazing is
going on and very little is understood about it. There are a few physical
laws that describe a bit about how it works, but not much else.

Post by Smiler
Why does it have to be a 'who'?

It doesn't.

what is 'a who'?..is a tree a who? is a stone? is a planet?
is 'the universe' a 'who'?

repeat...exactly what is a who?

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
Science can only be concerned with things that are subject to its laws.

Science is only concerned with reality.

Which is what I said. Science is limited to the universe and the stuff in
it.

[Don Kresch]

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe god is a black hole?

No, a black hole is an object with an event horizon that exists in the
universe.

Your supposed god doesn't.

That's what I said, God doesn't exist in the universe

Then god doesn't exist at all, for existence is predicated
upon "in" the universe.

Unless, of course, you'd like to describe existence apart from
the universe. You'd be the first person in the history of history to
do so.

Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.

[Svenne]

Post by Don Kresch

Post by Svenne
That's what I said, God doesn't exist in the universe

Then god doesn't exist at all, for existence is predicated
upon "in" the universe.

The description of this universe is predicated on what is in it. The
description of this universe has nothing to say about why it suddenly
popped into existence and from what. The description of this universe has
nothing at all to say about what might lie outside its boundaries.

Post by Don Kresch
Unless, of course, you'd like to describe existence apart from
the universe. You'd be the first person in the history of history to do
so.

Anybody who did that would win a pile of Nobel prizes, but, as you you
say, so far nobody has managed it.

[Don Kresch]

Post by Svenne

Post by Don Kresch

Post by Svenne
That's what I said, God doesn't exist in the universe

Then god doesn't exist at all, for existence is predicated
upon "in" the universe.

The description of this universe is predicated on what is in it. The
description of this universe has nothing to say about why

There is no why.

Post by Svenne
it suddenly
popped into existence

It has necessarily always existed.

Post by Svenne
and from what. The description of this universe has
nothing at all to say about what might lie outside its boundaries.

Nothing can.


Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.

[aaa]

Post by Don Kresch

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe god is a black hole?

No, a black hole is an object with an event horizon that exists in the
universe.

Your supposed god doesn't.

That's what I said, God doesn't exist in the universe

Then god doesn't exist at all, for existence is predicated
upon "in" the universe.
Unless, of course, you'd like to describe existence apart from
the universe. You'd be the first person in the history of history to
do so.

No one can truly understand existence without understanding truth first.
The physical existence is just a perception of the human mind.

Post by Don Kresch
Don
aa#51, Knight of BAAWA, Jedi Slackmaster
Praise "Bob" or burn in Slacklessness trying not to.

[aaa]

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist.

Well that rules out black holes for starters.

Much can be said about black holes, they are objects with an event
horizon, so far are the laws of physics applicable. The laws of physics
break down at the singularity.

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe god is a black hole?

No, a black hole is an object with an event horizon that exists in the
universe.

Your supposed god doesn't.

God's spiritual existence dominates the physical existence.

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
The singularity is somewhat more tricky.

Post by johnny-knowall

Post by Svenne
Since God is the creator of the universe

Merely your unevidenced belief, until you provide evidence for your
supposed god and evidence that it created anything.

God's evidence is open to all in philosophy. Anyone can find God's
evidence by studying philosophy.

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall
How can he create a universe which obeys the laws of physics if he is
external to it.

Science cannot say anything about why stuff came into existence, only
that it did so. Science can only say how it works after it came into
existence.

Science also tells us how stuff came into existence, no god needed.

Not really. Existence is only studied in philosophy. Science can never
answer any philosophical question.

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by johnny-knowall
Who then created the laws of physics?

That is something that science cannot explain.

Neither can you.
Why does it have to be a 'who'?

Because God is life.

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
Science can only be
concerned with things that are subject to its laws.

Science is only concerned with reality.

Science is only concerned with the illusory reality. Only philosophy is
concerned with the true reality.

[Smiler]

Post by aaa

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

On 20 Feb 2018, Svenne wrote (in article

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist.

Well that rules out black holes for starters.

Much can be said about black holes, they are objects with an event
horizon, so far are the laws of physics applicable. The laws of
physics break down at the singularity.

Maybe god is a black hole?

No, a black hole is an object with an event horizon that exists in the
universe.

Your supposed god doesn't.

God's spiritual existence dominates the physical existence.

Unevidenced woo-woo.

Post by aaa

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
The singularity is somewhat more tricky.

Post by Svenne
Since God is the creator of the universe

Merely your unevidenced belief, until you provide evidence for your
supposed god and evidence that it created anything.

God's evidence is open to all in philosophy.

Like Russel's teapot.

Post by aaa
Anyone can find God's evidence by studying philosophy.

Merely your unevidenced opinion and misunderstanding of philosophy.

Post by aaa

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

How can he create a universe which obeys the laws of physics if he is
external to it.

Science cannot say anything about why stuff came into existence, only
that it did so. Science can only say how it works after it came into
existence.

Science also tells us how stuff came into existence, no god needed.

Not really. Existence is only studied in philosophy. Science can never
answer any philosophical question.

More woo-woo bullshit.

Post by aaa

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Who then created the laws of physics?

That is something that science cannot explain.

Neither can you.
Why does it have to be a 'who'?

Because God is life.

What god? The one for which you have yet to show any evidence?

Post by aaa

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
Science can only be concerned with things that are subject to its
laws.

Science is only concerned with reality.

Science is only concerned with the illusory reality. Only philosophy is
concerned with the true reality.

Total insanity.

[John Baker]

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

Post by Svenne
The above limitation is also why science cannot say anything about why
stuff exists and how it came into existence.

[Ted]

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

LOL.

[Svenne]

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external
to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to
the universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to provide
evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

[Ted]

Post by Svenne

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external
to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to
the universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to provide
evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

I apologize.

[Svenne]

Post by Ted

Post by Svenne

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and
external to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are
applicable to the universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

I apologize.

Oh, that's OK, no bother.

I was hoping for a massive counter attack, nothing like a good set to
with an atheist for sharpening the mind.

[Ted]

Post by Svenne

Post by Ted

Post by Svenne

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and
external to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are
applicable to the universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

I apologize.

Oh, that's OK, no bother.
I was hoping for a massive counter attack, nothing like a good set to
with an atheist for sharpening the mind.

You don't want me, then. I'm stupid and not really an atheist. But there
are some brilliant people here who will oblige you.

[Svenne]

Post by Ted
You don't want me, then. I'm stupid and not really an atheist. But there
are some brilliant people here who will oblige you.

That would be really interesting, quite a challenge.

[Svenne]

Post by Ted
You don't want me, then. I'm stupid and not really an atheist. But there
are some brilliant people here who will oblige you.

PS. Somebody who says they are stupid is not really stupid.

Stupid people tend to be subject to the Dunning–Kruger law, if that can
be taken to be a physical law. It seems to work quite well.

[Smiler]

Post by Svenne

Post by Ted
You don't want me, then. I'm stupid and not really an atheist. But
there are some brilliant people here who will oblige you.

PS. Somebody who says they are stupid is not really stupid.
Stupid people tend to be subject to the Dunning–Kruger law, if that can
be taken to be a physical law. It seems to work quite well.

From experience, we know it well.
Why does the supposed god always chose total idiots as its spokespeople?
BTW, it's not a law. It's the Dunning-Kruger _effect_.

[John Baker]

Post by Ted

Post by Svenne

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external
to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to
the universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to provide
evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

I didn't claim you did say it was evidence, Skippy. I merely pointed
out that it isn't, so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I
claimed. <G>

Post by Ted
I apologize.

[Svenne]

Post by Svenne

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and
external to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are
applicable to the universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I
said.

I didn't claim you did say it was evidence, Skippy. I merely pointed out
that it isn't, so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I claimed.
<G>

You claimed that what I claimed wasn't evidence, which it wasn't and it
wasn't claimed to be either, so my claim was correct and your claim about
my claim not being evidence was pretty pointless as a counter claim to a
claim that did not claim to address what was being requested in the first
place concerning claims about possessing evidence to support claims about
the nature of reality. So your claiming about claims is irrelevant
sophistry. And that isn't a claim it is an assertion notwithstanding
claims about interpretations of the meaning of assertion contra claim. On
those grounds your claim about my assertion, or claim, could well within
reason be claimed to be a claim.

[Smiler]

Post by Svenne

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in
alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and
external to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are
applicable to the universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I
said.

I didn't claim you did say it was evidence, Skippy. I merely pointed
out that it isn't, so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I
claimed.
<G>

You claimed that what I claimed wasn't evidence, which it wasn't and it
wasn't claimed to be either, so my claim was correct and your claim
about my claim not being evidence was pretty pointless as a counter
claim to a claim that did not claim to address what was being requested
in the first place concerning claims about possessing evidence to
support claims about the nature of reality. So your claiming about
claims is irrelevant sophistry. And that isn't a claim it is an
assertion notwithstanding claims about interpretations of the meaning of
assertion contra claim. On those grounds your claim about my assertion,
or claim, could well within reason be claimed to be a claim.

Stop chasing your own tail. It'll get you nowhere.

[Olrik]

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in
alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and
external to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are
applicable to the universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I
said.

I didn't claim you did say it was evidence, Skippy. I merely pointed
out that it isn't, so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I
claimed.
<G>

You claimed that what I claimed wasn't evidence, which it wasn't and it
wasn't claimed to be either, so my claim was correct and your claim
about my claim not being evidence was pretty pointless as a counter
claim to a claim that did not claim to address what was being requested
in the first place concerning claims about possessing evidence to
support claims about the nature of reality. So your claiming about
claims is irrelevant sophistry. And that isn't a claim it is an
assertion notwithstanding claims about interpretations of the meaning of
assertion contra claim. On those grounds your claim about my assertion,
or claim, could well within reason be claimed to be a claim.

Stop chasing your own tail. It'll get you nowhere.

Well, it *did* get him somewhere : my idiot box.

[Smiler]

Post by Svenne

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and
external to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are
applicable to the universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

Non-existent things leave no evidence.

[Svenne]

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

Non-existent things leave no evidence.

There is evidence of a universe, it's all around us and science spends
all its time investigating it. It would be interesting if somebody
explained how it all came into existence and why it is the way it is.

[!! Atheist ------------------------------]

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

Non-existent things leave no evidence.

There is evidence of a universe, it's all around us and science spends
all its time investigating it. It would be interesting if somebody
explained how it all came into existence and why it is the way it is.

The correct truthful answer is "We don't yet know". But regardless,
it is far more plausible that universe has always existed rather
than to assert that some god, far more complicated than a universe,
has itself always existed. (See 'Special Pleading' logic fallacy.)

[Svenne]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 01:39:02 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

Non-existent things leave no evidence.

There is evidence of a universe, it's all around us and science spends
all its time investigating it. It would be interesting if somebody
explained how it all came into existence and why it is the way it is.

The correct truthful answer is "We don't yet know". But regardless,
it is far more plausible that universe has always existed rather than to
assert that some god, far more complicated than a universe,
has itself always existed. (See 'Special Pleading' logic fallacy.)

So you do accept there are things beyond the scope of your present
knowing. According to the best models there are the universe came into
existence around 14 billion years ago. It is reasonable to assume that
whatever it emerged from was hardly less complex than the universe that
emerged from it.

[johnny-knowall]

Post by Svenne
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 01:39:02 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

Non-existent things leave no evidence.

There is evidence of a universe, it's all around us and science spends
all its time investigating it. It would be interesting if somebody
explained how it all came into existence and why it is the way it is.

The correct truthful answer is "We don't yet know". But regardless,
it is far more plausible that universe has always existed rather than to
assert that some god, far more complicated than a universe,
has itself always existed. (See 'Special Pleading' logic fallacy.)

So you do accept there are things beyond the scope of your present
knowing. According to the best models there are the universe came into
existence around 14 billion years ago.

Those models were based on red shift data from many years ago. They just
extrapolated the data backwards and came to a point (as people tend to do in
those situations).

However, the theory assumes that the rate of movement away from our point of
reference was constant. This has been proved not to be the case. The distant
galaxies are accelerating away from us, and their acceleration rate appears
to be increasing.

If you extrapolate that backwards using the same principles, they would
decelerate - and if you went back far enough they should become stationary,
but not disappear altogether.

However, that would blow the current physics out of the water, until we
discover what exactly is making them accelerate.

Post by Svenne
It is reasonable to assume that
whatever it emerged from was hardly less complex than the universe that
emerged from it.

[Svenne]

Post by johnny-knowall
If you extrapolate that backwards using the same principles, they would
decelerate - and if you went back far enough they should become
stationary, but not disappear altogether.
However, that would blow the current physics out of the water, until we
discover what exactly is making them accelerate.

What about Dark Energy? or Goblins? or maybe something outside the
present remit of physics that is so incredibly amazing it puts current
physics practically on the level of the Voodoo nonsense somebody kindly
posted a while ago. Maybe these militant atheists should be a bit more
careful about their claims ("claim" being somewhat of an infected word
for some in this discussion).

[abelard]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 01:39:02 -0800, "!! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

Non-existent things leave no evidence.

There is evidence of a universe, it's all around us and science spends
all its time investigating it. It would be interesting if somebody
explained how it all came into existence and why it is the way it is.

The correct truthful answer is "We don't yet know". But regardless,
it is far more plausible that universe has always existed rather
than to assert that some god, far more complicated than a universe,
has itself always existed. (See 'Special Pleading' logic fallacy.)

what do you imagine you mean by 'always'?

[aaa]

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and
external to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are
applicable to the universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

I didn't say it was evidence. I made it clear it is impossible to
provide evidence so you are quite mistaken about what you claim I said.

Non-existent things leave no evidence.

No. The spiritually existent doesn't have to leave physical evidence.

The blue whale in the sea doesn't have to leave its footprints in the
desert.

[m***@btopenworld.com]

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

LOL indeed!

When one applies rules of logic/physics etc. one moves outside the domain of religion and theology. We have an unwarranted assumption regarding the universal applicability of these rules.

We know they apply within the known universe other wise we could never make sense of it. How about beyond it?

[abelard]

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

LOL indeed!
When one applies rules of logic/physics etc. one moves outside the domain of religion and theology. We have an unwarranted assumption regarding the universal applicability of these rules.
We know they apply within the known universe other wise we could never make sense of it. How about beyond it?

one cannot even forecast the result of the 3 o'clock....

that is(will be) in the realm of 'reality'...

if you want to get difficult, there are idiots 'forecasting' the
outcomes of brexit...a thing they cannot do...

the 'rules' of physics/logic are extremely limited and often
empirically unsound...

thus your reply is confusing me :-)

[m***@btopenworld.com]

Post by abelard
the 'rules' of physics/logic are extremely limited and often
empirically unsound...

All rules are limited to the parameters in which they operate.

Einstein showed Newtons Laws to be wanting. Nevertheless they were adequate to put satellites in orbit, to put a man on the moon, place a rover on Mars and so on. That is because these 'inadequacies' are insignificant at the low velocities relative to objects with a velocity expressed in terms of the speed of light.

[abelard]

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by abelard
the 'rules' of physics/logic are extremely limited and often
empirically unsound...

All rules are limited to the parameters in which they operate.
Einstein showed Newtons Laws to be wanting. Nevertheless they were adequate to put satellites in orbit, to put a man on the moon, place a rover on Mars and so on. That is because these 'inadequacies' are insignificant at the low velocities relative to objects with a velocity expressed in terms of the speed of light.

ah, i prob misread the punctuation...thanx for the clarification

[Farmer Giles]

Post by abelard

Post by m***@btopenworld.com

Post by abelard
the 'rules' of physics/logic are extremely limited and often
empirically unsound...

All rules are limited to the parameters in which they operate.
Einstein showed Newtons Laws to be wanting. Nevertheless they were adequate to put satellites in orbit, to put a man on the moon, place a rover on Mars and so on. That is because these 'inadequacies' are insignificant at the low velocities relative to objects with a velocity expressed in terms of the speed of light.

ah, i prob misread the punctuation...thanx for the clarification

<Chuckle> Humpty's bullshit exposed again.

[aaa]

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

It helps you to better understand what qualifies as evidence.

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
The above limitation is also why science cannot say anything about why
stuff exists and how it came into existence.

[Smiler]

Post by aaa

Post by John Baker

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external
to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to
the universe and the stuff in it.

Somehow I don't think this qualifies as legit evidence...

It helps you to better understand what qualifies as evidence.

We completely understand what evidence is, unlike you.
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

[Ted]

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

Exactly! And that's why you should also believe in flubdescrunts. You do,
right?

[Svenne]

Post by Ted

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

Exactly! And that's why you should also believe in flubdescrunts. You
do, right?

I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing at
all to say about anything beyond it.

[Ted]

Post by Svenne

Post by Ted

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

Exactly! And that's why you should also believe in flubdescrunts. You
do, right?

I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing at
all to say about anything beyond it.

Sorry.

[Svenne]

Post by Ted

Post by Svenne
I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing
at all to say about anything beyond it.

Sorry.

Exploring the limits of knowledge is interesting and engaging
materialists and atheists is particularly interesting. It's fun giving
them a tough time. Much can be learned.

I liked the guy who brought up black holes as evidence that things beyond
the laws of physics can be proven to exist. Clever, an interesting line
of thought lies in that direction.

[teresita]

Post by Svenne
I liked the guy who brought up black holes as evidence that things
beyond the laws of physics can be proven to exist.

Things beyond the current understanding of physics is what he means.
Planets were orbiting in ellipses even when the Greeks thought they moved
in epicycles.

[Svenne]

Post by teresita

Post by Svenne
I liked the guy who brought up black holes as evidence that things
beyond the laws of physics can be proven to exist.

Things beyond the current understanding of physics is what he means.

That has always been my point. Physics is limited by physical constraints.

[teresita]

Post by Svenne

Post by teresita

Post by Svenne
I liked the guy who brought up black holes as evidence that things
beyond the laws of physics can be proven to exist.

Things beyond the current understanding of physics is what he means.

That has always been my point. Physics is limited by physical
constraints.

Morality is limited by moral restraints.

Law is limited by legal restraint.

Verse is limited by poetic restraints.

[aaa]

Post by teresita

Post by Svenne

Post by teresita

Post by Svenne
I liked the guy who brought up black holes as evidence that things
beyond the laws of physics can be proven to exist.

Things beyond the current understanding of physics is what he means.

That has always been my point. Physics is limited by physical
constraints.

Morality is limited by moral restraints.
Law is limited by legal restraint.
Verse is limited by poetic restraints.

What is the limit of philosophy?

[Smiler]

Post by Svenne

Post by Ted

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external
to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to
the universe and the stuff in it.

Exactly! And that's why you should also believe in flubdescrunts. You
do, right?

I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing at
all to say about anything beyond it.

Your evidence that there is anything 'beyond the universe' is what?
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

[abelard]

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by Ted

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external
to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to
the universe and the stuff in it.

Exactly! And that's why you should also believe in flubdescrunts. You
do, right?

I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing at
all to say about anything beyond it.

Your evidence that there is anything 'beyond the universe' is what?
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

what does 'beyond' mean?

perhaps you believe there is nothing outside some fence...

[Svenne]

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing
at all to say about anything beyond it.

Your evidence that there is anything 'beyond the universe' is what?
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

Nobody knows anything of what is beyond the universe, where it came from
and what caused it. It would be interesting if there were someone or
something, but in that respect science is sorely lacking.

[aaa]

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing
at all to say about anything beyond it.

Your evidence that there is anything 'beyond the universe' is what?
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

Nobody knows anything of what is beyond the universe, where it came from
and what caused it. It would be interesting if there were someone or
something, but in that respect science is sorely lacking.

It's not possible to know what's beyond the universe. In fact there is
nothing beyond the universe. However, the universe only exists in the
human mind. So it's quite possible to know what's beyond the human mind
instead. All it takes is a simple reflection or a sudden realization.

[!! Atheist ------------------------------]

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing
at all to say about anything beyond it.

Your evidence that there is anything 'beyond the universe' is what?
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

Nobody knows anything of what is beyond the universe,

AFAIK, there is *only* the one universe, no "beyond the universe".

You pulled your god and now a 'beyond the universe" out your ass.

You're a self-confused goofball.

[Svenne]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 01:56:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing
at all to say about anything beyond it.

Your evidence that there is anything 'beyond the universe' is what?
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

Nobody knows anything of what is beyond the universe,

AFAIK, there is *only* the one universe, no "beyond the universe".

You don't know that.

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
You pulled your god and now a 'beyond the universe" out your ass.
You're a self-confused goofball.

It is you who is unreasonably speculating beyond what you can possibly
know.

[m***@btopenworld.com]

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
Nobody knows anything of what is beyond the universe,

AFAIK, there is *only* the one universe, no "beyond the universe".

Then you don't know very much!

The known universe is limited in size by time. It has to be if you think about it.

According to the cosmologists it began with the big bang which happened in the shortest instant. The echoes of this event are being picked up by radio telescopes as we speak. Since that instant the universe has expanded at the speed of light. This expansion can itself be observed via what is known as the Doppler effect in the light of distant stars and galaxies.

Big bang was the time when all matters was created. How we know not. It was also when time (a human perception) began. Indeed some scientist prefer to call big bang the t=0 moment.

We are therefore led towards a model of the universe that resembles and inflating party balloon. at the very skin of this balloon (the edge of 'our' universe) t is always equal to 0 an awesome realisation.

The bogey is that we can never reach the very edge of space since c = the speed/velocity of light sets a physical limit on how fast anything may travel (in our universe) That means that the edge of our universe is moving away from us at the same speed as we can only conceive we could attain.

For similar reasons, we cannot look beyond this edge.

This leaves room for speculation as to what lies beyond t=0 and what natural laws might apply there. The most attractive answer to this puzzle is not simply a another universe but an infinite number of them all behaving in the same or similar waysuggesting the concept of a multiverse.

Using 'earth logic' if you want to believe in God and heaven then there is plenty of room beyond the yonder for both.

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
You pulled your god and now a 'beyond the universe" out your ass.
You're a self-confused goofball.

[aaa]

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne
I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing
at all to say about anything beyond it.

Your evidence that there is anything 'beyond the universe' is what?
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

Nobody knows anything of what is beyond the universe,

AFAIK, there is *only* the one universe, no "beyond the universe".

The universe is what's in your mind. What's beyond the universe is
what's beyond your mind. You can't find what's beyond the universe by
looking into the universe, but you can find what's beyond your mind by
looking within yourself.

There are a lot of things you can find beyond your intellectual mind.

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
You pulled your god and now a 'beyond the universe" out your ass.
You're a self-confused goofball.

[m***@btopenworld.com]

Post by aaa
The universe is what's in your mind. What's beyond the universe is
what's beyond your mind. You can't find what's beyond the universe by
looking into the universe, but you can find what's beyond your mind by
looking within yourself.

An excellent way of putting it if I may say so.

[aaa]

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by Ted

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external
to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to
the universe and the stuff in it.

Exactly! And that's why you should also believe in flubdescrunts. You
do, right?

I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing at
all to say about anything beyond it.

Your evidence that there is anything 'beyond the universe' is what?
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

The evidence is the human mind. The universe is nothing but a reflection
or projection in the human mind. So anything beyond the universe is the
same as anything beyond the human mind. We can't look beyond the
universe, but we can always reflect on our human mind to realize what's
beyond(behind) our mind.

[Smiler]

Post by aaa

Post by Smiler

Post by Svenne

Post by Ted

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and
external to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are
applicable to the universe and the stuff in it.

Exactly! And that's why you should also believe in flubdescrunts. You
do, right?

I never said I believed in anything, I merely said that the laws of
physics are limited to the universe and how it works and have nothing
at all to say about anything beyond it.

Your evidence that there is anything 'beyond the universe' is what?
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

The evidence is the human mind.

Thanks for admitting it's just your insane imagination.

Post by aaa
The universe is nothing but a reflection or projection in the human mind.

How can a reflection or projection in the human mind be proven to exist?

Post by aaa
So anything beyond the universe is the
same as anything beyond the human mind.

Your mind is severely limited, being controlled by a supposed god.
Reality is beyond its capability.

Post by aaa
We can't look beyond the
universe, but we can always reflect on our human mind to realize what's
beyond(behind) our mind.

Thanks for admitting that you have no evidence that there is anything beyond
the universe.

[!! Atheist ------------------------------]

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

So neither you nor anyone can have legitimate evidence of it.

Why do you just assume it exists? Most common reasons are parental
brainwashing (from birth), or some delusion like "believing makes
me feel good" or perhaps dreams or hallucinations.

[saracene]

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

So neither you nor anyone can have legitimate evidence of it.
Why do you just assume it exists? Most common reasons are parental
brainwashing (from birth), or some delusion like "believing makes
me feel good" or perhaps dreams or hallucinations.
--
There is no verifiable evidence of any god(s). None whatsoever.
Extortion (Believe or Burn) is *THE* foundation of Christianity.
Sycophant: a compulsive ass-kisser of un-evidenced dictator god.

[saracene]

Post by saracene

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

So neither you nor anyone can have legitimate evidence of it.
Why do you just assume it exists? Most common reasons are parental
brainwashing (from birth), or some delusion like "believing makes
me feel good" or perhaps dreams or hallucinations.
--
There is no verifiable evidence of any god(s). None whatsoever.
Extortion (Believe or Burn) is *THE* foundation of Christianity.
Sycophant: a compulsive ass-kisser of un-evidenced dictator god.

http://youtu.be/2YIO_dxyJio

Ghede and Erzulie exist. They manifest themselves by taking possession of susceptible subjects.

[Svenne]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:56:32 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

So neither you nor anyone can have legitimate evidence of it.

No evidence within the universe as described by the laws of physics
exists.

But the universe exists and conscious beings within that universe exist
and science cannot say a thing about those amazing facts beyond a few
descriptions of how they work. Perhaps they are the most relevant and
fundamental facts of all but science is completely at a loss to explain
them. Quite a limitation of science, but my position all along has been
concerned with the limited remit of science.

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Why do you just assume it exists? Most common reasons are parental
brainwashing (from birth), or some delusion like "believing makes me
feel good" or perhaps dreams or hallucinations.

Because modern science, as clever as it is, still has a very limited
scope and leaves much outside of itself which it cannot explain.

[!! Atheist ------------------------------]

Post by Svenne
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:56:32 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

So neither you nor anyone can have legitimate evidence of it.

No evidence within the universe as described by the laws of physics
exists.

There is no "beyond the universe", dickhead.

Post by Svenne
But the universe exists and conscious beings within that universe exist
and science cannot say a thing about those amazing facts beyond a few
descriptions of how they work.

Science has said a lot, dickhead.

Post by Svenne

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Why do you just assume it exists? Most common reasons are parental
brainwashing (from birth), or some delusion like "believing makes me
feel good" or perhaps dreams or hallucinations.

Because modern science, as clever as it is, still has a very limited
scope and leaves much outside of itself which it cannot explain.

That is no reason to assume a god exists; you could just as
validly assume God-farting unicorns exist, you self-confused idiot?

[Siri Cruise]

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.

Who does the verifying?

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

On a related note nearly every scholar accepts the evidence that a Jesus of
Nazareth lived, preached, and was executed. And alt.atheism collectively
declared its collective wisdom was greater than scholars who had specialised in
that period and its documents so that all the evidence was fake or nonconclusive.

Sorry, kid, but you shewed your hand. Now everyone knows who the phonies are.

[Svenne]

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.

Who does the verifying?

Science has very good mechanisms for verifying, but so far no evidence of
a God has been found inside this universe. Apart from the universe
actually existing, that is, which is something quite amazing and
inexplicable for science.

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

On a related note nearly every scholar accepts the evidence that a Jesus
of Nazareth lived, preached, and was executed. And alt.atheism
collectively declared its collective wisdom was greater than scholars
who had specialised in that period and its documents so that all the
evidence was fake or nonconclusive.

It is quite reasonable to accept that a mendicant preacher called Jesus
of Nazareth existed and wandered about the Middle East doing assorted
magic tricks until he ended up getting nailed to a lump of wood. Making
claims he was some sort of "God" is going a bit over the top. I don't
doubt his magic tricks were quite good, but claiming he was a God is
rather ridiculous and unsupportable.

[Smiler]

Post by Svenne

"!! Atheist ------------------------------"

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.

Who does the verifying?

Science has very good mechanisms for verifying, but so far no evidence
of a God has been found inside this universe.

Perhaps because your one doesn't exist?
But there is evidence for other claimed gods that actually exist.
Neither you nor I believe in them.

Post by Svenne
Apart from the universe
actually existing, that is, which is something quite amazing and
inexplicable for science.

Science has it all pretty well explained.
There are still a few small gaps for your god to hide in, though.

Post by Svenne

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

On a related note nearly every scholar accepts the evidence that a
Jesus of Nazareth lived, preached, and was executed. And alt.atheism
collectively declared its collective wisdom was greater than scholars
who had specialised in that period and its documents so that all the
evidence was fake or nonconclusive.

It is quite reasonable to accept that a mendicant preacher called Jesus
of Nazareth existed and wandered about the Middle East doing assorted
magic tricks until he ended up getting nailed to a lump of wood. Making
claims he was some sort of "God" is going a bit over the top. I don't
doubt his magic tricks were quite good, but claiming he was a God is
rather ridiculous and unsupportable.

I accept neither of those premises because there is no evidence,
outside of the story, that he ever existed.
The same can be said for Superman, King Kong and hobbits.

[aaa]

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:56:32 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

So neither you nor anyone can have legitimate evidence of it.

No evidence within the universe as described by the laws of physics
exists.

There is no "beyond the universe", dickhead.

Post by Svenne
But the universe exists and conscious beings within that universe
exist and science cannot say a thing about those amazing facts beyond
a few descriptions of how they work.

Science has said a lot, dickhead.

Post by Svenne

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Why do you just assume it exists? Most common reasons are parental
brainwashing (from birth), or some delusion like "believing makes me
feel good" or perhaps dreams or hallucinations.

Because modern science, as clever as it is, still has a very limited
scope and leaves much outside of itself which it cannot explain.

That is no reason to assume a god exists; you could just as
validly assume God-farting unicorns exist, you self-confused idiot?

Philosophy exists, and philosophy exists beyond science. Comparing with
philosophy, your beloved science knows very little about everything.

[abelard]

Post by aaa
Philosophy exists, and philosophy exists beyond science. Comparing with
philosophy, your beloved science knows very little about everything.

"Philosophy, from the earliest times, has made greater claims, and
achieved fewer results, than any other branch of learning." [Russell,
Our knowledge of the external world, 1914]

another asserted atheist

[Smiler]

Post by aaa

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:56:32 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be
proven to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and
external to it Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are
applicable to the universe and the stuff in it.

So neither you nor anyone can have legitimate evidence of it.

No evidence within the universe as described by the laws of physics
exists.

There is no "beyond the universe", dickhead.

Post by Svenne
But the universe exists and conscious beings within that universe
exist and science cannot say a thing about those amazing facts beyond
a few descriptions of how they work.

Science has said a lot, dickhead.

Post by Svenne

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Why do you just assume it exists? Most common reasons are parental
brainwashing (from birth), or some delusion like "believing makes me
feel good" or perhaps dreams or hallucinations.

Because modern science, as clever as it is, still has a very limited
scope and leaves much outside of itself which it cannot explain.

That is no reason to assume a god exists; you could just as validly
assume God-farting unicorns exist, you self-confused idiot?

Philosophy exists, and philosophy exists beyond science.

So you say. Now prove it.

Post by aaa
Comparing with
philosophy, your beloved science knows very little about everything.

Merely your demented opinion until you can prove it.

[johnny-knowall]

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:56:32 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in
alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

So neither you nor anyone can have legitimate evidence of it.

No evidence within the universe as described by the laws of physics
exists.

There is no "beyond the universe", dickhead.

There might be. Have you not considered the multiverse theory?

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
But the universe exists and conscious beings within that universe exist
and science cannot say a thing about those amazing facts beyond a few
descriptions of how they work.

Science has said a lot, dickhead.

Maybe, but science has only explained less than 10% of what must be there -
apart from making up names such as dark matter and dark energy for the
missing bits.

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Why do you just assume it exists? Most common reasons are parental
brainwashing (from birth), or some delusion like "believing makes me
feel good" or perhaps dreams or hallucinations.

Because modern science, as clever as it is, still has a very limited
scope and leaves much outside of itself which it cannot explain.

That is no reason to assume a god exists; you could just as
validly assume God-farting unicorns exist, you self-confused idiot?

[teresita]

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe, but science has only explained less than 10% of what must be
there - apart from making up names such as dark matter and dark energy
for the missing bits.

Where do you get your 10% figure? Scientifically, or just a wild-ass
guess?

[johnny-knowall]

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe, but science has only explained less than 10% of what must be
there - apart from making up names such as dark matter and dark energy
for the missing bits.

Where do you get your 10% figure? Scientifically, or just a wild-ass
guess?

Nope.

I raised the figure from the true one in order to stop you soiling your
nikkers more than once a day.

I didn’t want you to worry your little airhead too much, but it you insist
on reading for yourself try this -

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/space/dark-matter/

[teresita]

On 21 Feb 2018, teresita wrote (in article

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe, but science has only explained less than 10% of what must be
there - apart from making up names such as dark matter and dark
energy for the missing bits.

Where do you get your 10% figure? Scientifically, or just a wild-ass
guess?

Nope.

That's what I figured.

[johnny-knowall]

Post by teresita

On 21 Feb 2018, teresita wrote (in article

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe, but science has only explained less than 10% of what must be
there - apart from making up names such as dark matter and dark
energy for the missing bits.

Where do you get your 10% figure? Scientifically, or just a wild-ass
guess?

Nope.

That's what I figured.

Ah, I see.

So you are yet another of the dishonest type who cut other peoples’ posts
in order for you to reply in a superior manner?

Another one for the kill-file.

[Siri Cruise]

Post by teresita

Post by johnny-knowall
Maybe, but science has only explained less than 10% of what must be
there - apart from making up names such as dark matter and dark energy
for the missing bits.

Where do you get your 10% figure? Scientifically, or just a wild-ass
guess?

The observed mass of the universe is much less than what observed gravity would
require. 90% missing? I'm not sure.

And dark matter is just a guess to make up the mass deficit. Nobody has observed
dark matter. It's currently a kludge to rescue the theories. If you don't know
that much, you aren't worth reading.

[abelard]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 02:12:25 -0800, "!! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:56:32 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

So neither you nor anyone can have legitimate evidence of it.

No evidence within the universe as described by the laws of physics
exists.

There is no "beyond the universe", dickhead.

Post by Svenne
But the universe exists and conscious beings within that universe exist
and science cannot say a thing about those amazing facts beyond a few
descriptions of how they work.

Science has said a lot, dickhead.

why are you so angry?

[Svenne]

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
No evidence within the universe as described by the laws of physics
exists.

There is no "beyond the universe", dickhead.

Not in this universe since this universe can only contain what is within
it and what is beyond it cannot, by definition, be within it.

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
But the universe exists and conscious beings within that universe exist
and science cannot say a thing about those amazing facts beyond a few
descriptions of how they work.

Science has said a lot, dickhead.

But far from enough. There are many very relevant and fundamental things
beyond the present scope of physics and the current universe it describes.

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
Because modern science, as clever as it is, still has a very limited
scope and leaves much outside of itself which it cannot explain.

That is no reason to assume a god exists; you could just as validly
assume God-farting unicorns exist, you self-confused idiot?

God farting unicorns would be pretty cool but rather unlikely. And take
it easy with the "dickhead" when addressing your superiors.

[Siri Cruise]

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
There is no "beyond the universe", dickhead.

That's a statement of faith. The facts are we cannot currently see anything
beyond our universe. String theories claim gravity can see other universes, and
a few claim CBR has a bruise from bumping against another universe beyond those
are still just guesses.

[Smiler]

Post by Siri Cruise

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
There is no "beyond the universe", dickhead.

That's a statement of faith. The facts are we cannot currently see
anything beyond our universe.

Until we can see and verify something (anything) beyond our universe, it's safe to
assume that there is nothing there.

Post by Siri Cruise
String theories claim gravity can see other universes,

Unproven.

Post by Siri Cruise
and a few claim CBR has a bruise from bumping against
another universe beyond those are still just guesses.

Also unproven.
In fact, just as unproven as god.

[Siri Cruise]

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.

So neither you nor anyone can have legitimate evidence of it.
Why do you just assume it exists? Most common reasons are parental
brainwashing (from birth), or some delusion like "believing makes
me feel good" or perhaps dreams or hallucinations.

I was bummed out when I heard the inflationary hypothesis. 'Oh, well the
cosmological constant changed.' I don't know if they have since come up with
mechanism that would make the constant variable, but to start with just changing
numbers sounds like fudging the results just because you believe in the current
theory.

[Incubus]

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Q: Is there any verifiable evidence of any god(s)? Any at all?
A: Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.
The above limitation is also why science cannot say anything about why
stuff exists and how it came into existence.

Or perhaps God is the universe and the whole thing is self-creating. Either
way, science is part of the 'system' and would only have limited ability to
penetrate the mysteries.

[Svenne]

Post by Incubus

Post by Svenne
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 04:32:45 -0800, !! Atheist

Post by !! Atheist ------------------------------
Nope, none at all.
However, any who think they have legit evidence please present in alt.atheism.

Only stuff in the universe subject to the laws of physics can be proven
to exist. Since God is the creator of the universe and external to it
Gods existence cannot be proven by means which are applicable to the
universe and the stuff in it.
The above limitation is also why science cannot say anything about why
stuff exists and how it came into existence.

Or perhaps God is the universe and the whole thing is self-creating.
Either way, science is part of the 'system' and would only have limited
ability to penetrate the mysteries.

That is coming close to the way things probably are. Although that which
is described by present physics as the universe is only a limited working
model of whatever it is that we are a part of. Some call it God, which
seems to be reasonable enough, although the 'God' word has an awful lot
of superstitious baggage about it.

[teresita]

Post by Svenne
That is coming close to the way things probably are. Although that which
is described by present physics as the universe is only a limited
working model of whatever it is that we are a part of. Some call it God,
which seems to be reasonable enough, although the 'God' word has an
awful lot of superstitious baggage about it.

God's superstitious baggage has superstitious baggage.