Cursed and what I can do about it

[Mike the Kiwi]

This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution to it, so here goes:

Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together on a number of occasions but because of the
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman
outside of marriage.

Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several different women, but if I look back over the whole
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change in the negative sense has occurred almost
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in each new relationship.
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long term romantic relationship and I feel that I have
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or trying to develop has been removed from me (or
forfeited).

So the obvious question at this time is:
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break, reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing this??

I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if you would like to email me directly rather than post
to the group (either is fine) then send to
mike the kiwi @ snap . net . nz (remove spaces to email)

Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

[shasta ___________ ____ \)]

Mike ~

Everyday, all around us throughout daily dealings with life, God
presents to us unlimited opportunity to ..... love, to be loving, and
loved.

This, in all its forms becomes much more difficult to see, accept, and
experience if it is "conditioned" by man's word, man's law ( church ),
and thus, man's judgement, annalysis, and conclusions.

Making "promises" of any kind, in _your_ word, more often than not,
will, and has to be broken. Man's "word" is _always_ conditional. God's
word is NEVER conditional.

What often appears as, and is interpreted as, "repeated cycles or events
and their outcomes", is the very struggle to finally free our own
thought..... of the very CONDITION, ( weakness, illness, lack
consciousness, etc. ) we have said, thus believe to be "what brings us
closer to God and in harmony with God."

God IS, ever with you, within you, and all around you. But, being able
to see this, accept it, ..... may only be hampered by the "conditional
colored glasses" through which you, in the past, chose to put on and
and have or possibly still are attempting to doing the looking through.

SURE, guilt comes from not being able to "keep" our word. It DOES,
because, our word has only the power that we put to it,. in the moment,
and continue to maintain through passing of time, life challenges and
changes.... by, maintaining the "belief" that, OUR word is Truth.

God is,..... having a struggle (?) with the condition you placed in the
path by which you are open, receiving, accepting, and acknowledging Thy
Works at hand in your life ?

Love, Loving, and Love, in any other name, ..... yup, that IS A
PROBLEM.....
and, it's a two way street !

Yes, quite possibly, drastic changes have and may HAVE TO take place, in
your thinking / your life / the appearances / outcomes ... for realizing
, God is at work in all areas of your life, to the very best and
perfectness to that which you acknowledge and simply accept ,

You ARE a child of God,
You ARE.... Love, Loving, and Loved.

The blind, the lame, the leper, the dead, the handicapped .... ( the
condition idea / thought ) IS healed ..... when we are willing and ready
to "receive" .... IT.

You Mike, DO have faith....
but, ..in WHAT is that faith placed, and tryhing to be true to ? your
_word_ ,or,
Thy Word.

...

The Light of God surrounds me;
The Love of God enfolds me;
The Power of God protects me;
The Presence of God watches over me;
The Mind of God guides me;
The LIfe of God flows through me;
The Laws of God direct me;
The Peace of God abides within me;
The Joy of God uplifts me;
The Strength of God renews me;
The Beauty of God inspires me;
Wherever I AM, .. God IS.

-----------------------------

+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[Mike the Kiwi]

Thanks for your lengthy reply Shasta, but that does not even remotely answer my question

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

I wish you well.

No one may have the accedptable answer to undo the head-lock you have
with yourself.

Relationships, sex. curse, guilt, negative outcomes, former belief vs
present belief and how you empower all these and have related one with
another ...
you ARE where you "think" you ARE only so long as you believe that is
the truth.

Perhaps a healthy dose of being Mind-full of all the great reasons for
LIVING your life --- could, would or should --
snap you out of the reoccuring history of
" throwing your life away syndrome."

Straight up truth is .....
the "Poor Me package"
may not be producing the greatest results in your life, because of who
and what it attracts into your life.




+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

At one time in the past, you were a fairly consistant participant in
this group.
That is .... up to a serious "falling out" with another in the group,
afterwhich you dropped away.
Then, we heard again from you, after making an attempt to again, end it
all.
Again, you dropped away from the group.

Now, again, you come into the group, desperately wanting help.

Help you have received, each and every time out of the hearts and minds
of well intentioned individuals.

" the Poor Me package " denotes a co-dependent thinking, and for it to
continue on, it requires .....enablers.

Truth is not the thing which feeds the hunger within co-dependency.
Truth is quite the opposite.

Blessings to you with your struggle.


+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[Mike the Kiwi]

hehehe *venom!!* hehehe

Post by shasta ___________ ______ :
At one time in the past, you were a fairly consistant participant in
this group.
That is .... up to a serious "falling out" with another in the group,
afterwhich you dropped away.
Then, we heard again from you, after making an attempt to again, end it
all.
Again, you dropped away from the group.
Now, again, you come into the group, desperately wanting help.
Help you have received, each and every time out of the hearts and minds
of well intentioned individuals.
" the Poor Me package " denotes a co-dependent thinking, and for it to
continue on, it requires .....enablers.
Truth is not the thing which feeds the hunger within co-dependency.
Truth is quite the opposite.
Blessings to you with your struggle.
+
Namaste*
shasta
Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle
.

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

Since the history outlined as it unfolded into this group is now what
you laugh at and call "venom", --- is there any remaining reason or
purpose within you for sharing anything further here?

For most part, people try to share, encourage, and assist in "spreading
The Light."
It's rare for this group to experience an individual who sucks all the
light out of all that is offered to them openly, only to "turn" against
the offering.
The very repeats of this merely shed light where it may not really be
desired.



+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[Carmen]

Post by Mike the Kiwi
hehehe *venom!!* hehehe

yeah hehe
just ignore it (venom) and read my reply,
go out enjoy life and have some good sex
it'll put a smile on ya dial
:)
Carmen

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

Hey .... there you GO Mike ....
forget about Grace!
Go have coffee with Carmen. A little reiki psychic help about now could
be the right touch and what your're looking for.

A big "Thanks" to Carmen for popping in and offering the help. Go girl !


.

[A***@webtv.net]

Hello - - it has been a long time since I took
a look at ya'll. ;-)) I swear the more things
change - - the more they remain the same.

This time it is YOU Mike instead of me
putting hand into lion's mouth. And of course
Ms. Guru aka shasta - - TRIES to lay a guilt
trip on you --- telling you how co-dependent
you are - - and blesses you in your struggle
to CLMB THE MOUNTAIN AND SIT WITH
HER. LOL!!!

Hey Mike - - - what else is new? You had
Shasta figured out loooooong before I did.
Are we having fun yet? ;-)) I know you are
much tooooooo wise to take offense at
her attempt to "put you down". Be well
Bro ---

Kay Elizabeth

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

LOL ....

Wow ..... leave it to Kay herself to provide the real example of ....
VENOM.

FANTASTIC !!!
So.... what's the latest in your love life Kay ?

( "Kay" --- formerly known in this group by two other names )

.

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

It doesn't matter squat if you dispise me for however deep or long you
may need:

Life in not about "me".

It may be far more worthwhile to consider.......


WHAT is it ....
which=A0upholds Creativity, Love, Fulfillment, Freedom. Truth, Faith.
Courage and Hope as the eight highest human values ?


What is it ...
which helps you realize your connection to Spirit, and the healing power
of Spirit in your life ?


What is it...
which inspires you to develop your extraordinary Potential and talents
and discover your unique mission in the world?


What is it...
which opens you up to your creative imagination ?


What is it...
which builds convergence and bridges of understanding between peoples,
generations, genders, cultures and ideas ?


What is it...
that excites you to do something constructive in the world ?


What is it...
that brings you BREAKTHROUGH news, not breakdown news and moves you out
of isolation into healthy self-autonomy and creative engagement with
others ?


What is it....
that=A0reminds you that there is magic in the power of believing; and
that as the architect of your own reality, you can make new choices to
shape a more fulfilling life ?


What is it...
that lets you recognize the nobility of the human spirit and the
sanctity of each individual's right to feelings and to full
self-expression ?


What is it...
which helps you to identify and heal the negative beliefs that keep you
from being who you are ?


What is it...
which acknowledges the nobility of the human struggle as a process that
can point the way to illumination ?


What is it...
which honors and respects human diversity within the context of seeing
our planet as one unified global family ?


What is it...
which reveals the presence of unity in duality: the common bond &
universal Light that can emerge out of conflict when people see
themselves in others & others in themselves ?


What is it...
that encourages you to see your life, the world and the future as
interconnected, positive and hopeful ?


What is it...
that delivers the message that we are each individualized expressions of
the infinite creative Spirit of the One ?


What is it...
that explores a future filed with infinite creative possibilities and
reveres the non-human life forms with whom you share the world and
reveals the beauty and sacredness of your life and the world in which
you live ?


+
Namaste*
shasta
Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[Mike the Kiwi]

;)

Post by A***@webtv.net
Hello - - it has been a long time since I took
a look at ya'll. ;-)) I swear the more things
change - - the more they remain the same.
This time it is YOU Mike instead of me
putting hand into lion's mouth. And of course
Ms. Guru aka shasta - - TRIES to lay a guilt
trip on you --- telling you how co-dependent
you are - - and blesses you in your struggle
to CLMB THE MOUNTAIN AND SIT WITH
HER. LOL!!!
Hey Mike - - - what else is new? You had
Shasta figured out loooooong before I did.
Are we having fun yet? ;-)) I know you are
much tooooooo wise to take offense at
her attempt to "put you down". Be well
Bro ---
Kay Elizabeth

[freespirit]

Hi Kay
If you don't like sprouts why put them on your plate?
Take care
Dave
--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by A***@webtv.net
Hello - - it has been a long time since I took
a look at ya'll. ;-)) I swear the more things
change - - the more they remain the same.
This time it is YOU Mike instead of me
putting hand into lion's mouth. And of course
Ms. Guru aka shasta - - TRIES to lay a guilt
trip on you --- telling you how co-dependent
you are - - and blesses you in your struggle
to CLMB THE MOUNTAIN AND SIT WITH
HER. LOL!!!
Hey Mike - - - what else is new? You had
Shasta figured out loooooong before I did.
Are we having fun yet? ;-)) I know you are
much tooooooo wise to take offense at
her attempt to "put you down". Be well
Bro ---
Kay Elizabeth

[A***@webtv.net]

Dave writes:
Hi Kay
If you don't like sprouts why put them on your plate? Take care
Dave

~~~~~Hi Dave
I love sprouts. And actually there is a time and
place for bull shit, What I don't like is bull shit
piled high and deep --- being passed around
as nurishment for the spirit. Be well
Kay

[freespirit]

Hi Kay

Post by A***@webtv.net
I love sprouts.

So do I :0)

Post by A***@webtv.net
And actually there is a time and place for bull shit.

Warm and around roses?

Post by A***@webtv.net
What I don't like is bull shit piled high and deep.

Depends on the direction of the wind

Post by A***@webtv.net
being passed around as nourishment for the spirit.

Roses find it nourishing.

Why jump around in bull shit when you can walk around it?
What sticks to your shoes you have put there. Perception
differs from person to person. What may be bull shit to one
may have deep meaning to another. I have honed bull shitting
to a fine art, well at least that's what people tell me. Do I
care? No, not even a little bit. My roses are doing well and
considering what they have been fed on, their scent is amazing.

How does your flowers grow? I have some bull shit left over
if you should need some.

Post by A***@webtv.net
Be well

And you to

Take care
Dave (winner of the bull shitter of the year 2003 award)
--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by A***@webtv.net
Hi Kay
If you don't like sprouts why put them on your plate? Take care
Dave
~~~~~Hi Dave
I love sprouts. And actually there is a time and
place for bull shit, What I don't like is bull shit
piled high and deep --- being passed around
as nurishment for the spirit. Be well
Kay

[searching]

Post by freespirit
Hi Kay

Post by A***@webtv.net
I love sprouts.

So do I :0)

Post by A***@webtv.net
And actually there is a time and place for bull shit.

Warm and around roses?

Post by A***@webtv.net
What I don't like is bull shit piled high and deep.

Depends on the direction of the wind

Post by A***@webtv.net
being passed around as nourishment for the spirit.

Roses find it nourishing.
Why jump around in bull shit when you can walk around it?
What sticks to your shoes you have put there. Perception
differs from person to person. What may be bull shit to one
may have deep meaning to another. I have honed bull shitting
to a fine art, well at least that's what people tell me. Do I
care? No, not even a little bit. My roses are doing well and
considering what they have been fed on, their scent is amazing.
How does your flowers grow? I have some bull shit left over
if you should need some.

Post by A***@webtv.net
Be well

And you to
Take care
Dave (winner of the bull shitter of the year 2003 award)

What the....???? has the 2003 already gone off... damn!!!!

Peace

Post by freespirit
--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by A***@webtv.net
Hi Kay
If you don't like sprouts why put them on your plate? Take care
Dave
~~~~~Hi Dave
I love sprouts. And actually there is a time and
place for bull shit, What I don't like is bull shit
piled high and deep --- being passed around
as nurishment for the spirit. Be well
Kay

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

Kay ~ ( formerly known as Eliz in this group )

The last three appearances you've made into this group have been for the
purpose of taking a direct slam at me. The crying shame of this all is
.... it is in direct contradiction with the very teachings you've been
a student of through Religious Science, A Course In Miracles ( ACIM )
and your teacher, Meher Baba.

Your last appearance, Jan. 2003 was very much identical with this
appearance, ironically, tied into a thread related with Mike.

You may have all the right reasons for being bitter for things which
happened to you in life. You may been bitter for ever sharing these ,,,
and thus, continually demonstrate that bitterness at me.

As I said, and mean it sincerely, ... do so for as deep and long as you
need. If that is what you _have_ to share with others, so be it. If
there is something else, of greater value, I hope you will do so.

I am no big deal, or problem, other than what you yourself create of it.
As such, a creation of your own doing, there is nothing I can, nor have,
to answer to whatsoever. I'm just saddened that this bitterness has
remained for as long as it has with you.

Best wishes to you,





+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[Mike the Kiwi]

Post by shasta ___________ ______ :
I am no big deal, or problem,

Then why go on about it!!

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

Go on about what ??


+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

There was nothing about the Master that any but the keenest eye would
see as out of the ordinary. He could be frightened and depressed when
circumstances warranted. He could laugh and cry and fly into a rage. He
loved a goodly meal, was not averse to a drink or two and was even known
to turn his head at the sight of a comely woman.

When a traveler compained that the Master was not a "holy man," a
disciple set him right:

"It is one thing that a man be holy.
It is quite another that he should seem holy to you."



+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[freespirit]

Hi Peace

Post by searching
What the....???? has the 2003 already gone off... damn!!!!

I am advanced for my years or is I am of advancing years :0)
Take care
Dave
--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by searching

Post by freespirit
Hi Kay

Post by A***@webtv.net
I love sprouts.

So do I :0)

Post by A***@webtv.net
And actually there is a time and place for bull shit.

Warm and around roses?

Post by A***@webtv.net
What I don't like is bull shit piled high and deep.

Depends on the direction of the wind

Post by A***@webtv.net
being passed around as nourishment for the spirit.

Roses find it nourishing.
Why jump around in bull shit when you can walk around it?
What sticks to your shoes you have put there. Perception
differs from person to person. What may be bull shit to one
may have deep meaning to another. I have honed bull shitting
to a fine art, well at least that's what people tell me. Do I
care? No, not even a little bit. My roses are doing well and
considering what they have been fed on, their scent is amazing.
How does your flowers grow? I have some bull shit left over
if you should need some.

Post by A***@webtv.net
Be well

And you to
Take care
Dave (winner of the bull shitter of the year 2003 award)

What the....???? has the 2003 already gone off... damn!!!!
Peace

Post by freespirit
--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by A***@webtv.net
Hi Kay
If you don't like sprouts why put them on your plate? Take care
Dave
~~~~~Hi Dave
I love sprouts. And actually there is a time and
place for bull shit, What I don't like is bull shit
piled high and deep --- being passed around
as nurishment for the spirit. Be well
Kay

[Brian Fletcher]

Post by freespirit
Hi Kay

Post by A***@webtv.net
I love sprouts.

So do I :0)

Post by A***@webtv.net
And actually there is a time and place for bull shit.

Warm and around roses?

Post by A***@webtv.net
What I don't like is bull shit piled high and deep.

Depends on the direction of the wind

Post by A***@webtv.net
being passed around as nourishment for the spirit.

Roses find it nourishing.
Why jump around in bull shit when you can walk around it?
What sticks to your shoes you have put there. Perception
differs from person to person. What may be bull shit to one
may have deep meaning to another. I have honed bull shitting
to a fine art, well at least that's what people tell me. Do I
care? No, not even a little bit. My roses are doing well and
considering what they have been fed on, their scent is amazing.
How does your flowers grow? I have some bull shit left over
if you should need some.

Post by A***@webtv.net
Be well

And you to
Take care
Dave (winner of the bull shitter of the year 2003 award)

C'mon Dave,

Thats bullshit, and you know it........your not even a Taurian.....!!!

Brian

[freespirit]

Hi Brian
Is bull shitting about bull shitting still bull shitting?
That's it I have gone and confused myself :0(
We can allow ourselves to remain affected by another, it is however not a
sign of strength but one of weakness.
The power of forgiveness gets over looked, it is by no means condoning it is
one of self healing. I learnt the hard
way loosing a large portion of this incarnation to hate.
Take care
Dave
--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Brian Fletcher

Post by freespirit
Hi Kay

Post by A***@webtv.net
I love sprouts.

So do I :0)

Post by A***@webtv.net
And actually there is a time and place for bull shit.

Warm and around roses?

Post by A***@webtv.net
What I don't like is bull shit piled high and deep.

Depends on the direction of the wind

Post by A***@webtv.net
being passed around as nourishment for the spirit.

Roses find it nourishing.
Why jump around in bull shit when you can walk around it?
What sticks to your shoes you have put there. Perception
differs from person to person. What may be bull shit to one
may have deep meaning to another. I have honed bull shitting
to a fine art, well at least that's what people tell me. Do I
care? No, not even a little bit. My roses are doing well and
considering what they have been fed on, their scent is amazing.
How does your flowers grow? I have some bull shit left over
if you should need some.

Post by A***@webtv.net
Be well

And you to
Take care
Dave (winner of the bull shitter of the year 2003 award)

C'mon Dave,
Thats bullshit, and you know it........your not even a Taurian.....!!!
Brian

[Carmen]

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Thanks for your lengthy reply Shasta, but that does not even remotely answer my question

Oh and Mike,
one more thing
You may want to check your attitude toward women,
your phrase :-
'licentious Christian woman'

if you mean by 'licentious'
'disregarding accepted rules and conventions'
that is a good thing
questioning, testing and examination of
accepted rules and conventions is a good thing !

Regards
carmen

[freespirit]

Hi Mike
If you had the ability to place a curse on yourself, you also have the
ability to remove it. If you cannot then you must ask yourself
why you don't want to. If we were perfect we would not be in physical
incarnation. So you made want you believe to be bad choices, so what we all
do it's no big deal. Do you think unconditional love is only for those who
kiss God's arse? unconditional
is unconditional, it doesn't matter a fart what choices you make. We are our
own judges, if you want to beat yourself around the
head with a lump of 4x2 then do so, if you don't stop.
Take care
Dave

http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in

each new relationship.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing this??
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if

you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in

each new relationship.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing this??
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if

you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

[Mike the Kiwi]

Yeah, I'm gonna stop! ;)

Post by freespirit
Hi Mike
If you had the ability to place a curse on yourself, you also have the
ability to remove it. If you cannot then you must ask yourself
why you don't want to. If we were perfect we would not be in physical
incarnation. So you made want you believe to be bad choices, so what we all
do it's no big deal. Do you think unconditional love is only for those who
kiss God's arse? unconditional
is unconditional, it doesn't matter a fart what choices you make. We are our
own judges, if you want to beat yourself around the
head with a lump of 4x2 then do so, if you don't stop.
Take care
Dave
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in

each new relationship.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing

this??

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if

you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in

each new relationship.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing

this??

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if

you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

[freespirit]

Hi Mike
Good, don't forget to give the bumps time to go down :0)
Take care
Dave
--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Yeah, I'm gonna stop! ;)

Post by freespirit
Hi Mike
If you had the ability to place a curse on yourself, you also have the
ability to remove it. If you cannot then you must ask yourself
why you don't want to. If we were perfect we would not be in physical
incarnation. So you made want you believe to be bad choices, so what we all
do it's no big deal. Do you think unconditional love is only for those who
kiss God's arse? unconditional
is unconditional, it doesn't matter a fart what choices you make. We are our
own judges, if you want to beat yourself around the
head with a lump of 4x2 then do so, if you don't stop.
Take care
Dave
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in

each new relationship.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing

this??

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if

you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in

each new relationship.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing

this??

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if

you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

[Brian Fletcher]

Kiss Gods arse?......hmmmmm

Bullshit?........ehhhhhhh

Fertilise the roses?

Ahhhh, got you Dave. That explains the thorns..... hehehehehe...

Brian

Post by freespirit
Hi Mike
If you had the ability to place a curse on yourself, you also have the
ability to remove it. If you cannot then you must ask yourself
why you don't want to. If we were perfect we would not be in physical
incarnation. So you made want you believe to be bad choices, so what we all
do it's no big deal. Do you think unconditional love is only for those who
kiss God's arse? unconditional
is unconditional, it doesn't matter a fart what choices you make. We are our
own judges, if you want to beat yourself around the
head with a lump of 4x2 then do so, if you don't stop.
Take care
Dave
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in

each new relationship.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing

this??

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if

you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in

each new relationship.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing

this??

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if

you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

[freespirit]

Hi Brian
Even those with my beauty have to protect themselves :0)
Take care
Dave
--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Brian Fletcher
Kiss Gods arse?......hmmmmm
Bullshit?........ehhhhhhh
Fertilise the roses?
Ahhhh, got you Dave. That explains the thorns..... hehehehehe...
Brian

Post by freespirit
Hi Mike
If you had the ability to place a curse on yourself, you also have the
ability to remove it. If you cannot then you must ask yourself
why you don't want to. If we were perfect we would not be in physical
incarnation. So you made want you believe to be bad choices, so what

we

Post by Brian Fletcher
all

Post by freespirit
do it's no big deal. Do you think unconditional love is only for those

who

Post by freespirit
kiss God's arse? unconditional
is unconditional, it doesn't matter a fart what choices you make. We

are

Post by Brian Fletcher
our

Post by freespirit
own judges, if you want to beat yourself around the
head with a lump of 4x2 then do so, if you don't stop.
Take care
Dave
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a

solution

Post by freespirit

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept

together

Post by freespirit
on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where

change

Post by freespirit
in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early

on

Post by Brian Fletcher
in

Post by freespirit
each new relationship.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in

a

Post by Brian Fletcher
long

Post by freespirit
term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing

this??

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my

life,

Post by Brian Fletcher
if

Post by freespirit
you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

--
http://www.my-space.org.uk/spirituality2000/index.html

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a

solution

Post by freespirit

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept

together

Post by freespirit
on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where

change

Post by freespirit
in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early

on

Post by Brian Fletcher
in

Post by freespirit
each new relationship.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in

a

Post by Brian Fletcher
long

Post by freespirit
term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing

this??

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my

life,

Post by Brian Fletcher
if

Post by freespirit
you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

[Azure]

Try talking to GOD not man or your self, or the sacrifice.
Maybe then you will understand the truth.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together on a number of occasions but because of the
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman
outside of marriage.
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several different women, but if I look back over the whole
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change in the negative sense has occurred almost
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in each new relationship.
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long term romantic relationship and I feel that I have
missed out on much in my life.
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or trying to develop has been removed from me (or
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break, reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing this??
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if you would like to email me directly rather than post
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

[WIL]

cursing is about justice being done.
have you paid your price
if so un curse yourself with the same intent as when you started.

thy will be done Mike.

So mote it be

Wil

[SleepyMaggie]

I'm really enjoying this group and it's refreshing to see so many
people giving life-affirming self-empowering answers to folks!

Seems all of us manage to inflict ourselves with a curse, or take some
kind of vow of suffering, at some point in our development - must be
something we all have to go through in order to get where we're going.
For a lot of folks I know (OK, me, for instance) it's a Vow of
Poverty (forever affirming "I can't afford it!") and consistently
failing to crawl out of some rut or other no matter what we try to do.
Actually you've more than half won the battle by Owning the
Responsibility, yourself, for the situation you find yourself in.
Most people just continue to blame the world and circumstances for the
rest of their lives, and never do get out of it.

Anyway now that you realize that this is happening to you because you
_chose_ for it to (congratulations) you have the power to change it.
What you need to realize is that the God you drew up this Contract
with is a reasonable God that actually cares about you and wants you
to be happy (in fact it's you, but if that model doesn't work for
you, don't worry about it.) God (by whatever name you call him/her)
is a Good Father (or Mother) yet the way we portray him/her in our
culture, geez, if one of our neighbors treated their children the way
we seem to think God treats us, we'd call Social Services on them.

God will listen to you. You can talk to him, reasonably, like an
adult. God wants us to grow up, not remain Childern forever. It's OK
to say "You know, this Vow I made (aka Curse I placed on MySelf), I
made it while I was still a rather immature Spirit, and it was silly,
I regret it now. If I'd known then what I know now, I would not have
said that." Well duh. We're here to learn. Have you learned? Maybe
that was the whole reason you made the Vow (and made the "mistake") to
begin with - just so you can learn what you have learned through it.
Now you can renegotiate the contract. That's between you and God.

Post by WIL
cursing is about justice being done.
have you paid your price
if so un curse yourself with the same intent as when you started.
thy will be done Mike.
So mote it be
Wil

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

If someone falls down a well shaft, others, without hesitation, rush to
the rescue.

Over time, if that same, repeatedly falls down that well shaft, maybe
it's time for them to find out for theirself why.

Stuck in the bottom of that shaft, that light up there overhead may or
may not have any meaning. If no one comes to the rescue a g a i n, then
just maybe, the decision you make about what you are going to do about
where you are, ..... just may be ,,,, the saving grace.

It could be the "humbling experience" that changes a life around ...
into The Light.




+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[Mike the Kiwi]

Wow Maggie, excellent perspective and one I value very much :)
Thank you for your reply to my question, you have given me much powerful food for thought.

Kindest regards
Mike

Post by SleepyMaggie
I'm really enjoying this group and it's refreshing to see so many
people giving life-affirming self-empowering answers to folks!
Seems all of us manage to inflict ourselves with a curse, or take some
kind of vow of suffering, at some point in our development - must be
something we all have to go through in order to get where we're going.
For a lot of folks I know (OK, me, for instance) it's a Vow of
Poverty (forever affirming "I can't afford it!") and consistently
failing to crawl out of some rut or other no matter what we try to do.
Actually you've more than half won the battle by Owning the
Responsibility, yourself, for the situation you find yourself in.
Most people just continue to blame the world and circumstances for the
rest of their lives, and never do get out of it.
Anyway now that you realize that this is happening to you because you
_chose_ for it to (congratulations) you have the power to change it.
What you need to realize is that the God you drew up this Contract
with is a reasonable God that actually cares about you and wants you
to be happy (in fact it's you, but if that model doesn't work for
you, don't worry about it.) God (by whatever name you call him/her)
is a Good Father (or Mother) yet the way we portray him/her in our
culture, geez, if one of our neighbors treated their children the way
we seem to think God treats us, we'd call Social Services on them.
God will listen to you. You can talk to him, reasonably, like an
adult. God wants us to grow up, not remain Childern forever. It's OK
to say "You know, this Vow I made (aka Curse I placed on MySelf), I
made it while I was still a rather immature Spirit, and it was silly,
I regret it now. If I'd known then what I know now, I would not have
said that." Well duh. We're here to learn. Have you learned? Maybe
that was the whole reason you made the Vow (and made the "mistake") to
begin with - just so you can learn what you have learned through it.
Now you can renegotiate the contract. That's between you and God.

Post by WIL
cursing is about justice being done.
have you paid your price
if so un curse yourself with the same intent as when you started.
thy will be done Mike.
So mote it be
Wil

[Mike the Kiwi]

Post by WIL
So mote it be

LOL, cheers Wil, is the *mote* the same as the one that's in my eye, or more like the 4x2 that's in my eye!!

hehe Just kidding, thanks for your reply my friend :)

Kindest regards
Mike

[Carmen]

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.

Mike
one Kiwi to another:-
there is nothing wrong with sex outside of marriage
it is not a crime !

I also don't believe it is morally wrong.
Christianity is a *man made* religion
based on a moral consciousness put in place by people
as a form of social and moral control.

Your 'subsequent guilt' '
' righteousness'
and curse in god's name

what sort of 'God' are you working with ?

A "God" that imposes guilt and self punishment ?
'Righteousness' is an embellishment based on moral principle, it is up to
YOU to decide your own set of moral principle,
that freedom is yours to choose.

Now to the next part :-

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different >woman very early on in

each new relationship.

The introducing of sex into any relationship changes that relationship,
that is a FACT !
Almost like a universal truth.

Sex brings into play all sorts of new energies, positives and negatives,
insecurities, self doubts.

IT IS NOT YOUR SELF IMPOSED CURSE AT WORK.

It is the natural course of all relationships that sex WILL change the
dynamics of any relationships.

It may simply be a matter that the sex was not good for both of you, or it
may simply be what i previously suggested that various insecurities have
been given the breath of life.

The really important thing here is that you release ALL guilt about having
sex outside of marriage.

Sex is nothing to be guilty about, it is a natural act between consenting
people, when you realise that as a fact and allow that simple truth to
absorb into your being you will realise that your self curse has no power.

A 'curse' has no power when you know in your own mind and heart that what
you are doing is of good intention.

When you had non-marital sex with those women,
you were doing what you thought to be right at the time.
What happened after that was only the evolution of self doubt and
insecurity.

Sex between consenters is not a punishable transgression, people al over the
place have relationship problems nd most of them are based on basic things
such as
communication, financial problems, sex.
But generally the source of all relationship problems are COMMUNICATION.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.

A lot of people have that exact same issue in their lives
it is generally about communication.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing this??

Look into taking some communication and possibly self esteem / development /
self empowering courses.

Don't allow yourself to be burdened by unnecessary guilt, accept that sex
between consenters is a natural part of life, people having been doing it
for years, there is nothing morally wrong outside of marriage, unless of
course you're already married to someone else or otherwise committed.
:)
marriage is a *MAN-MADE* institution
your 'curse' is only your self imposed negativity.

The form your relationships take are entirely your decision.
God, formal religion and busy bodies should have no say in the matter and no
right to interfere.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if

you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to

Just enjoy the naturalness of sex,
it is nice that you have a conscience but don't let it take away your
enjoyment of life and love.
Realise that sex ALWAYS will change a relationship and the people involved
in it, often that change is not positive.
Us women are fickle
Communication is important
Don't bear the burden of un-necessary guilt
Your self imposed curse has nothing to do with "God"
it has more to do with your conscious / sub-coscious,
insecurities and self doubt.
Act with confidence in all your endeavours

Regards
Carmen

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

[Mike the Kiwi]

Thank you Carmen.

I really appreciate the time you took to give me this great answer, you have put my mind at ease :)

Kindest regards
Mike

Post by Mike the Kiwi

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.

Mike
one Kiwi to another:-
there is nothing wrong with sex outside of marriage
it is not a crime !
I also don't believe it is morally wrong.
Christianity is a *man made* religion
based on a moral consciousness put in place by people
as a form of social and moral control.
Your 'subsequent guilt' '
' righteousness'
and curse in god's name
what sort of 'God' are you working with ?
A "God" that imposes guilt and self punishment ?
'Righteousness' is an embellishment based on moral principle, it is up to
YOU to decide your own set of moral principle,
that freedom is yours to choose.
Now to the next part :-

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different >woman very early on in

each new relationship.
The introducing of sex into any relationship changes that relationship,
that is a FACT !
Almost like a universal truth.
Sex brings into play all sorts of new energies, positives and negatives,
insecurities, self doubts.
IT IS NOT YOUR SELF IMPOSED CURSE AT WORK.
It is the natural course of all relationships that sex WILL change the
dynamics of any relationships.
It may simply be a matter that the sex was not good for both of you, or it
may simply be what i previously suggested that various insecurities have
been given the breath of life.
The really important thing here is that you release ALL guilt about having
sex outside of marriage.
Sex is nothing to be guilty about, it is a natural act between consenting
people, when you realise that as a fact and allow that simple truth to
absorb into your being you will realise that your self curse has no power.
A 'curse' has no power when you know in your own mind and heart that what
you are doing is of good intention.
When you had non-marital sex with those women,
you were doing what you thought to be right at the time.
What happened after that was only the evolution of self doubt and
insecurity.
Sex between consenters is not a punishable transgression, people al over the
place have relationship problems nd most of them are based on basic things
such as
communication, financial problems, sex.
But generally the source of all relationship problems are COMMUNICATION.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.

A lot of people have that exact same issue in their lives
it is generally about communication.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing

this??
Look into taking some communication and possibly self esteem / development /
self empowering courses.
Don't allow yourself to be burdened by unnecessary guilt, accept that sex
between consenters is a natural part of life, people having been doing it
for years, there is nothing morally wrong outside of marriage, unless of
course you're already married to someone else or otherwise committed.
:)
marriage is a *MAN-MADE* institution
your 'curse' is only your self imposed negativity.
The form your relationships take are entirely your decision.
God, formal religion and busy bodies should have no say in the matter and no
right to interfere.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if

you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to

Just enjoy the naturalness of sex,
it is nice that you have a conscience but don't let it take away your
enjoyment of life and love.
Realise that sex ALWAYS will change a relationship and the people involved
in it, often that change is not positive.
Us women are fickle
Communication is important
Don't bear the burden of un-necessary guilt
Your self imposed curse has nothing to do with "God"
it has more to do with your conscious / sub-coscious,
insecurities and self doubt.
Act with confidence in all your endeavours
Regards
Carmen

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

[searching]

Hey Mike

Comes a time, and many times, that we have to challenge what we believe and
how the "rules" are working for us... Often the rules need to be modified or
changed...

There is an old saying I like which goes something like this...
"Rules are for blind obedience by fools, and for guidence for the wise."

Though many would like to put themselves in the later category, I can assure
you its in pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that wise in one thing is not
necessarily wise at another.

I have been brought up in the Catholic Church, and then went through
adelesence in a "half god" state, later going into to Pentecostal ideas,
having a big tug of war about it with guilt and shame and the continual
failure of falling short. The demon on the back was the idea that I had to
be such and such a way and do such and such a thing. When I looked at all
of it from the "bigger perspective" of eternity and the goals of God, with
the Loving Character of Justice, I realised that it was a distortion of that
ideal that having my mind on doing the greater good as an "attitude" was the
main thing. Apostle Paul said, that all things were permissable but not all
things were edifying.

The message of the Love of God has been distorted by many religions to keep
us in guilt... but if you look at Gods perfect will, it is for all of us to
simply turn to him and know him and his love and he will forgive us. It is
the guilt that keeps us separated and doing things with a "rebellious"
attitude... and the fact is that most things we can do with thanks giving in
our hearts.

Welcome to the journey to dare to believe in the Greater Good of God... you
will find that as you give up the distortions of religion, that you will
find the "freedom" and "peace" from the "law of liberty" than you ever felt
it before... The fact is God loves everyone, and we are all his children.
I found that even when I was a christian and sought the Lord with prayer and
fasting for days, that I was getting ideas in my head that God loved
everyone, and LOVE was the most important thing in the whole universe...

When you look at the bible and see the basic messages which cannot be
contradicted, you will find that God says he will forgive us if we turn to
him... We find that God loves us all and wants us to rejoin with him and
become ONE with him, which is what the reincarnation religions teach. The
goal of all of them is that we reunite with God... The major key is that we
need to know that He loves us, and that he has washed us clean so that we no
longer need to feel guilt or any other negative which would keep us
seperated from God... It means that Gods will is for all to do this, and as
such all are forgiven, and religion has kept this from us with all their
"guilt offerings" and so on.

You will find the prophesies of Jesus were to reunite all things back to
God, being the sacrifice of all sacrifices, for those who knew or didnt know
about it... For if there was anything to be paid for mankind, it was Gods
problem and after all, he can do it all very well... So whether I believe in
Jesus Christ or not, it was Gods problem... I like the words of Jesus, how
he said their religion was stopping people from entering the kingdom of
heaven... of the teachings Jesus put forward to teach the principles of Love
and making peace, or healing and sharing in the benefits of an abundent life
with answered prayers.

Every curse can therefore fall away, for you know Gods perfect will is
simply for you to Trust Him and Love Him... then you know that "everything"
is going to be alright...

Just a note on what Jesus said... do not judge others and you will not be
judged... what you sow is what you reap... if God has forgiven you, then
you should also forgive others... for if you are not forgiving of others,
then you cannot be forgiven by God... we are to love our enemies and make
peace. To stop the cycle of aggression and "turn the other cheek"
metaphorically to break the cycle from a "revenge" attack.

Thus we are all brothers and sisters in the spirit of life... God is our
Heavenly Father, and we ourselves are royal desendants of God and sit
ourselves on thrones in spiritual heavenly places. So this means we
ourselves are gods... (psalm 82:6)

So everything else besides, is based on Jesus principle Goldern rules...
Love God and Gods ways of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE with all your being
Love everyone else as you love yourself
Treat everyone how you want to be treated by being the example of treating
them first.

So long as you are not hurting anyone else, and that both are in agreement
of their own free wills... then we are not breaking any of Gods laws. The
rest were added by men which only brought bondage and guilt and put us
further from God... Definitely not Gods will...

So fear not... perfect love casts out all fear...

Just imagine unconditional love and be happy and at peace :-)

Consider that those who are not christians yet do the godly things, and
trust in God, are also covered by the love of God. the rest is religious
propaganda based on fear and loyalty to providing your wealth to the
clergy... God doesnt want sheep, he wants those who worship him in spirit
and in truth, because they want to... lip service is as good as no service.

In many ways what I am saying may sound like I am a christian and this is
not so... I believe Jesus was great with what he said... and I weigh it all
up to make practical sense for real investigation and understanding from
many different philosophical angles. All point back to this... God is love
and he loves everyone. Also pointing to the fact that man could not just
leave it alone and had to mess it up by covering up this message with dogma.

--
Peace is within, and is projected outwardly.
Searching... for eternal truths...

[Mike the Kiwi]

Truly wonderful!! Thank you so much for taking the time to write this, I have saved it for reference whenever I need a
pick-me-up :)

Kindly
Mike

Post by A***@webtv.net
Hey Mike
Comes a time, and many times, that we have to challenge what we believe and
how the "rules" are working for us... Often the rules need to be modified or
changed...
There is an old saying I like which goes something like this...
"Rules are for blind obedience by fools, and for guidence for the wise."
Though many would like to put themselves in the later category, I can assure
you its in pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that wise in one thing is not
necessarily wise at another.
I have been brought up in the Catholic Church, and then went through
adelesence in a "half god" state, later going into to Pentecostal ideas,
having a big tug of war about it with guilt and shame and the continual
failure of falling short. The demon on the back was the idea that I had to
be such and such a way and do such and such a thing. When I looked at all
of it from the "bigger perspective" of eternity and the goals of God, with
the Loving Character of Justice, I realised that it was a distortion of that
ideal that having my mind on doing the greater good as an "attitude" was the
main thing. Apostle Paul said, that all things were permissable but not all
things were edifying.
The message of the Love of God has been distorted by many religions to keep
us in guilt... but if you look at Gods perfect will, it is for all of us to
simply turn to him and know him and his love and he will forgive us. It is
the guilt that keeps us separated and doing things with a "rebellious"
attitude... and the fact is that most things we can do with thanks giving in
our hearts.
Welcome to the journey to dare to believe in the Greater Good of God... you
will find that as you give up the distortions of religion, that you will
find the "freedom" and "peace" from the "law of liberty" than you ever felt
it before... The fact is God loves everyone, and we are all his children.
I found that even when I was a christian and sought the Lord with prayer and
fasting for days, that I was getting ideas in my head that God loved
everyone, and LOVE was the most important thing in the whole universe...
When you look at the bible and see the basic messages which cannot be
contradicted, you will find that God says he will forgive us if we turn to
him... We find that God loves us all and wants us to rejoin with him and
become ONE with him, which is what the reincarnation religions teach. The
goal of all of them is that we reunite with God... The major key is that we
need to know that He loves us, and that he has washed us clean so that we no
longer need to feel guilt or any other negative which would keep us
seperated from God... It means that Gods will is for all to do this, and as
such all are forgiven, and religion has kept this from us with all their
"guilt offerings" and so on.
You will find the prophesies of Jesus were to reunite all things back to
God, being the sacrifice of all sacrifices, for those who knew or didnt know
about it... For if there was anything to be paid for mankind, it was Gods
problem and after all, he can do it all very well... So whether I believe in
Jesus Christ or not, it was Gods problem... I like the words of Jesus, how
he said their religion was stopping people from entering the kingdom of
heaven... of the teachings Jesus put forward to teach the principles of Love
and making peace, or healing and sharing in the benefits of an abundent life
with answered prayers.
Every curse can therefore fall away, for you know Gods perfect will is
simply for you to Trust Him and Love Him... then you know that "everything"
is going to be alright...
Just a note on what Jesus said... do not judge others and you will not be
judged... what you sow is what you reap... if God has forgiven you, then
you should also forgive others... for if you are not forgiving of others,
then you cannot be forgiven by God... we are to love our enemies and make
peace. To stop the cycle of aggression and "turn the other cheek"
metaphorically to break the cycle from a "revenge" attack.
Thus we are all brothers and sisters in the spirit of life... God is our
Heavenly Father, and we ourselves are royal desendants of God and sit
ourselves on thrones in spiritual heavenly places. So this means we
ourselves are gods... (psalm 82:6)
So everything else besides, is based on Jesus principle Goldern rules...
Love God and Gods ways of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE with all your being
Love everyone else as you love yourself
Treat everyone how you want to be treated by being the example of treating
them first.
So long as you are not hurting anyone else, and that both are in agreement
of their own free wills... then we are not breaking any of Gods laws. The
rest were added by men which only brought bondage and guilt and put us
further from God... Definitely not Gods will...
So fear not... perfect love casts out all fear...
Just imagine unconditional love and be happy and at peace :-)
Consider that those who are not christians yet do the godly things, and
trust in God, are also covered by the love of God. the rest is religious
propaganda based on fear and loyalty to providing your wealth to the
clergy... God doesnt want sheep, he wants those who worship him in spirit
and in truth, because they want to... lip service is as good as no service.
In many ways what I am saying may sound like I am a christian and this is
not so... I believe Jesus was great with what he said... and I weigh it all
up to make practical sense for real investigation and understanding from
many different philosophical angles. All point back to this... God is love
and he loves everyone. Also pointing to the fact that man could not just
leave it alone and had to mess it up by covering up this message with dogma.
--
Peace is within, and is projected outwardly.
Searching... for eternal truths...

[searching]

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Truly wonderful!! Thank you so much for taking the time to write this, I

have saved it for reference whenever I need a

Post by Mike the Kiwi
pick-me-up :)
Kindly
Mike

Thanks MIKE :-)

You have picked me up knowing that I have made a positive difference. :-)

Post by Mike the Kiwi

Post by A***@webtv.net
Hey Mike
Comes a time, and many times, that we have to challenge what we believe and
how the "rules" are working for us... Often the rules need to be modified or
changed...
There is an old saying I like which goes something like this...
"Rules are for blind obedience by fools, and for guidence for the wise."
Though many would like to put themselves in the later category, I can assure
you its in pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that wise in one thing is not
necessarily wise at another.
I have been brought up in the Catholic Church, and then went through
adelesence in a "half god" state, later going into to Pentecostal ideas,
having a big tug of war about it with guilt and shame and the continual
failure of falling short. The demon on the back was the idea that I had to
be such and such a way and do such and such a thing. When I looked at all
of it from the "bigger perspective" of eternity and the goals of God, with
the Loving Character of Justice, I realised that it was a distortion of that
ideal that having my mind on doing the greater good as an "attitude" was the
main thing. Apostle Paul said, that all things were permissable but not all
things were edifying.
The message of the Love of God has been distorted by many religions to keep
us in guilt... but if you look at Gods perfect will, it is for all of us to
simply turn to him and know him and his love and he will forgive us. It is
the guilt that keeps us separated and doing things with a "rebellious"
attitude... and the fact is that most things we can do with thanks giving in
our hearts.
Welcome to the journey to dare to believe in the Greater Good of God... you
will find that as you give up the distortions of religion, that you will
find the "freedom" and "peace" from the "law of liberty" than you ever felt
it before... The fact is God loves everyone, and we are all his children.
I found that even when I was a christian and sought the Lord with prayer and
fasting for days, that I was getting ideas in my head that God loved
everyone, and LOVE was the most important thing in the whole universe...
When you look at the bible and see the basic messages which cannot be
contradicted, you will find that God says he will forgive us if we turn to
him... We find that God loves us all and wants us to rejoin with him and
become ONE with him, which is what the reincarnation religions teach.

The

Post by Mike the Kiwi

Post by A***@webtv.net
goal of all of them is that we reunite with God... The major key is that we
need to know that He loves us, and that he has washed us clean so that we no
longer need to feel guilt or any other negative which would keep us
seperated from God... It means that Gods will is for all to do this, and as
such all are forgiven, and religion has kept this from us with all their
"guilt offerings" and so on.
You will find the prophesies of Jesus were to reunite all things back to
God, being the sacrifice of all sacrifices, for those who knew or didnt know
about it... For if there was anything to be paid for mankind, it was Gods
problem and after all, he can do it all very well... So whether I believe in
Jesus Christ or not, it was Gods problem... I like the words of Jesus, how
he said their religion was stopping people from entering the kingdom of
heaven... of the teachings Jesus put forward to teach the principles of Love
and making peace, or healing and sharing in the benefits of an abundent life
with answered prayers.
Every curse can therefore fall away, for you know Gods perfect will is
simply for you to Trust Him and Love Him... then you know that "everything"
is going to be alright...
Just a note on what Jesus said... do not judge others and you will not be
judged... what you sow is what you reap... if God has forgiven you, then
you should also forgive others... for if you are not forgiving of others,
then you cannot be forgiven by God... we are to love our enemies and make
peace. To stop the cycle of aggression and "turn the other cheek"
metaphorically to break the cycle from a "revenge" attack.
Thus we are all brothers and sisters in the spirit of life... God is our
Heavenly Father, and we ourselves are royal desendants of God and sit
ourselves on thrones in spiritual heavenly places. So this means we
ourselves are gods... (psalm 82:6)
So everything else besides, is based on Jesus principle Goldern rules...
Love God and Gods ways of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE with all your being
Love everyone else as you love yourself
Treat everyone how you want to be treated by being the example of treating
them first.
So long as you are not hurting anyone else, and that both are in agreement
of their own free wills... then we are not breaking any of Gods laws.

The

Post by Mike the Kiwi

Post by A***@webtv.net
rest were added by men which only brought bondage and guilt and put us
further from God... Definitely not Gods will...
So fear not... perfect love casts out all fear...
Just imagine unconditional love and be happy and at peace :-)
Consider that those who are not christians yet do the godly things, and
trust in God, are also covered by the love of God. the rest is religious
propaganda based on fear and loyalty to providing your wealth to the
clergy... God doesnt want sheep, he wants those who worship him in spirit
and in truth, because they want to... lip service is as good as no service.
In many ways what I am saying may sound like I am a christian and this is
not so... I believe Jesus was great with what he said... and I weigh it all
up to make practical sense for real investigation and understanding from
many different philosophical angles. All point back to this... God is love
and he loves everyone. Also pointing to the fact that man could not just
leave it alone and had to mess it up by covering up this message with dogma.
--
Peace is within, and is projected outwardly.
Searching... for eternal truths...

[Carmen]

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Thank you Carmen.
I really appreciate the time you took to give me this great answer, you

have put my mind at ease :)

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Kindest regards
Mike

No worries Mike,
there are 1 or 2 other comments, to review some of your comments :-

Post by Mike the Kiwi

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I was involved
with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her

Recently a (previously married) woman related to me a similar story to
yours.
Saying she was seduced by a man, when she was still married to her husband.
She laid all the blame for the affair on that man as if she had no part in
the 'seduction', he was the 'evil doer' she rleates her story like she was
a victim who was so innocnet that she hardly knew what was happening,
there is a parallel there.

Maybe in such a circumstance look more to what it was about the relationship
that you needed or desired at the time and the positives that came out of it
which made you the person you are today

You went on to say :-

Post by Mike the Kiwi

Post by Mike the Kiwi

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different >woman very early on in

each new relationship.

Obvious answer :-
don't have sex early on in each new relationship,
that doesn't necessarily mean you have to wait for marriage.

Before having a sexual relationship consider whether that person is one whom
you would consider spending the rest of your life with.

Many people don't consider that type of thing before sexual encounters.
Quite often, even if they aren't willing to spend the rest of their life
with that person, some people find they end up becoming in life long contact
with their sexual partner, when children result from the encounter.

Post by Mike the Kiwi

Post by Mike the Kiwi

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.

Long term friendship or romantic relationship
without sex may be the way to go for you,
can be equally rewarding if not more so and is the best
determinant of whether the relationship would be lasting after the initial
physical attraction cools down.

regards
Carmen

[Brian Fletcher]

Hi Mike,

This may sound flippant, but it is not meant to be.

"Self dialouge" is a critical aspect of your creation, and the English
language (or the "Kiwi" version), happens to be the most ambiguous ever. So
not only do we need to know the right words, but to also know what we each
interpret the to be.

Hope the following illustrates....

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution

to it, so here goes:

Is it a "problem" , or are you making it one? If not there is no solution to
be found.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.

Forfeit? Do you mean "invite divine intervention" or "by your own hand".

If the former, what has happened so far? (beliefs are always competing with
'reality' ie "that which happens".

If the latter, would you take a gun to bed.....?

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in

each new relationship.

Back to self dialouge. Subconsciously, we "believe ourself". This is simple
auto suggestion. (Can be triggered by others dialouge...ie, suggestion
(external) becomes auto suggestion (internal).

Like computers, rubbish in-rubbish out.

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.

There are a mirriad of "reasons " why this is happening to the majority of
people. Welcome to "spiritual waker up time"

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).

I see what you mean by forfeit. Just have to reprogramme your "comp"....
(as do the other 80% of the pop. who feel diss-appointed by their
circumstances.....see the example of the power of the words again
(dis-appointed)?

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing this??

Whats the readers belief got to do with it?. If you have the power to switch
the light off, you can switch it on again (change the auto suggestion to
include can, not can I)

Brian

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I appreciate any and all help in overcoming this obstacle in my life, if

you would like to email me directly rather than post

Post by Mike the Kiwi
to the group (either is fine) then send to
Thanks again
Mike the Kiwi

[Mike the Kiwi]

Post by Brian Fletcher
Hi Mike,
This may sound flippant, but it is not meant to be.

Not at all, I have no problem with you "flipping out" on me Brian ;) lol

Post by Brian Fletcher
"Self dialouge" is a critical aspect of your creation, and the English
language (or the "Kiwi" version), happens to be the most ambiguous ever. So
not only do we need to know the right words, but to also know what we each
interpret the to be.
Hope the following illustrates....

Post by Mike the Kiwi
This is a very personal problem, but I need to share it to find a solution

Is it a "problem" , or are you making it one? If not there is no solution to
be found.

The point I was trying to emphasise was the "personal" aspect of it, not that it was any kind of problemo.

Post by Brian Fletcher

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Many years ago whilst I was living and working in Perth I was involved

with a licentious Christian woman who was in the same

Post by Mike the Kiwi
church as me. I allowed myself to be seduced by her and we slept together

on a number of occasions but because of the

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Christian faith I was following at the time and the subsequent guilt I

felt from sleeping with her I had a fit of

Post by Mike the Kiwi
righteousness and swore a curse upon myself in god's name that I would

forfeit my life if I ever slept with another woman

Post by Mike the Kiwi
outside of marriage.

Forfeit? Do you mean "invite divine intervention" or "by your own hand".

The One I swore the vow to, i.e. the "Big G".

Post by Brian Fletcher
If the former, what has happened so far? (beliefs are always competing with
'reality' ie "that which happens".
If the latter, would you take a gun to bed.....?

Only the one I'm attached to!! hahahahaha ;)

Post by Brian Fletcher

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Well you gotta know that since then (1989) there have been several

different women, but if I look back over the whole

Post by Mike the Kiwi
sequence of my life since that time I can see definite areas where change

in the negative sense has occurred almost

Post by Mike the Kiwi
immediately after I have slept with each different woman very early on in

each new relationship.
Back to self dialouge. Subconsciously, we "believe ourself". This is simple
auto suggestion. (Can be triggered by others dialouge...ie, suggestion
(external) becomes auto suggestion (internal).
Like computers, rubbish in-rubbish out.

Has a lot to do with the old Self-Image kinda thing huh!

Post by Brian Fletcher

Post by Mike the Kiwi
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long

term romantic relationship and I feel that I have

Post by Mike the Kiwi
missed out on much in my life.

There are a mirriad of "reasons " why this is happening to the majority of
people. Welcome to "spiritual waker up time"

Post by Mike the Kiwi
I know that death, per se, does not exist and I see therefore that the

curse I placed on myself caused the forfeiture of my

Post by Mike the Kiwi
"life" in different forms inasmuch as the life I have been living or

trying to develop has been removed from me (or

Post by Mike the Kiwi
forfeited).

I see what you mean by forfeit. Just have to reprogramme your "comp"....
(as do the other 80% of the pop. who feel diss-appointed by their
circumstances.....see the example of the power of the words again
(dis-appointed)?

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Does the reader think or believe that there is any way I can break,

reverse, change, or otherwise this self appointed curse

Post by Mike the Kiwi
from my life at this stage, and if so then how would I go about doing

this??
Whats the readers belief got to do with it?. If you have the power to switch
the light off, you can switch it on again (change the auto suggestion to
include can, not can I)

Some good food for thought, thanks Brian :)

Regards
Mike

[Mymoonbeams]

Subject: Cursed and what I can do about it
As a consequence I have never been able to become fully involved in a long
term romantic relationship and I feel that I have
missed out on much in my life.

Kiwi, Kiwi, Kiwi,
What's stopping you now?
What is the consequence that you fear a 'long term romantic relationship' will
bring you?
Violet

[Mike the Kiwi]

Post by Mymoonbeams
What is the consequence that you fear a 'long term romantic relationship' will
bring you?

Sorry, I don't follow your meaning Lisa, the only *consequence* I can see from a long term romantic relationship would be
more enjoyment and love in my life.
Nothing bad at all.

Mike <scratching head>

[A***@webtv.net]

Was in the middle of answering your BS
response to mine when I lost electricity.
This part of VA was hit hard by the hurricane.
Will be days before current is restored. I am
blesssed to have a generator and well water.
And my loved ones and I came thru without
bodily harm. Some property damage, including
25 trees --- some over 100 yrs old --- ;-(( that
grieves me --- but the house is ok and we all
feel fortunate --- no lives lost in or around
this commnity.

As far as bull shit - - - I got a good laugh out
of your post ;-)) Are you sure YOU hold the
title???? I think shasta takes the blue
ribbon - - - you give her zero competition.
Of course it is just my opinion - and my
preception - and my ego observation - LOL!
I thought we knew we were BSing about
ego stuff ??? Shasta imo actually believes
she has risen from the dead and is awake.
Hey we all have our illusions -- you got
yours and I go mine ;-))

I seldom look in here --- but when I do
such as last week --- there shasta is taking
the opportunity to inflict pain and rub salt
in the wound of a suffering poster. It stinks.
It's bull shit and I decided to poke my nose
in and say so. Just passing thru and thought
your post was worth responding to---in all
sincereity, Dave, I hope you are well and
as our friend Nelson would say - - thank
you for being part of my love story.

Kay Elizabeth

[freespirit]

Hi Kay
No, I hold the title, no one is as good as me (see told you)
It really doesn't matter what another thinks of our views / beliefs, we each
must speak our own truths. I have no doubt in my mind that Shasta does, as
do you. Where you may differ with each other the paths will arrive at the
same destination. My belief is that we are unique as are our paths and it
saddens me to see that religious clubs are still a major killer of men,
woman and children.
It always starts off with some petty differences and ends up in a blood
bath. It is at the small differences the biggest steps are made and it is
perceived loss of face that normally prevents it. With a face like mine one
would be glad to loose it and hope no bugger picks it up and returns it Hey
you ain't seen it, if it gets any worse it will look better :0)
Take care
Dave
--
freespirit at my-space dot org dot uk
www dot my-space dot org dot uk

Post by A***@webtv.net
Was in the middle of answering your BS
response to mine when I lost electricity.
This part of VA was hit hard by the hurricane.
Will be days before current is restored. I am
blesssed to have a generator and well water.
And my loved ones and I came thru without
bodily harm. Some property damage, including
25 trees --- some over 100 yrs old --- ;-(( that
grieves me --- but the house is ok and we all
feel fortunate --- no lives lost in or around
this commnity.
As far as bull shit - - - I got a good laugh out
of your post ;-)) Are you sure YOU hold the
title???? I think shasta takes the blue
ribbon - - - you give her zero competition.
Of course it is just my opinion - and my
preception - and my ego observation - LOL!
I thought we knew we were BSing about
ego stuff ??? Shasta imo actually believes
she has risen from the dead and is awake.
Hey we all have our illusions -- you got
yours and I go mine ;-))
I seldom look in here --- but when I do
such as last week --- there shasta is taking
the opportunity to inflict pain and rub salt
in the wound of a suffering poster. It stinks.
It's bull shit and I decided to poke my nose
in and say so. Just passing thru and thought
your post was worth responding to---in all
sincereity, Dave, I hope you are well and
as our friend Nelson would say - - thank
you for being part of my love story.
Kay Elizabeth

[A***@webtv.net]

Dave writes:
It really doesn't matter what another thinks of our views / beliefs, we
each must speak our own truths. I have no doubt in my mind that Shasta
does, as do you.

~~~~~Me: I agree totally. I believe that
experiences are to be shared. Some souls
are actually able to learn from another's
experience and save themselves time and
hurt and----whatever. I call shasta at her
game since there may be some poster or
lurker who can benefit from my experience.
i hold no grievence against shasta. I forgave
her and myself long ago. Forgiveness however
does not require reconciliation nor the breaking
of bread together. She posts some awesome
spiritual truths.....that's a fact. But as a friend
and confidant - - she fails miserably. Perhaps
you admire/respect her manner of posting to
others who obviously are hurting and seeking
spiritual counsel - - - I did for several months.
But after her verbal assault - which included
a betrayal of trust and ended in dishonesty and
lies I decided to move on -- get back on track
and into the light.

Yes I agree we will all arrive at the same destination------some paths
are a bit rockier
and longer than others. I never claimed to be
the brightest light in the room --- but
I got the message - - - there's a deep dark
hole on shasta's path and I have no need
to walk that way again.

Dave continues:
With a face like mine one would be glad to loose it and hope no bugger
picks it up and returns it Hey you ain't seen it, if it gets any worse
it will look better :0) Take care
Dave

~~~Me: LOL ---- well me no pretty girl myself.
I've lost face many times - - - just my karma
I guess - - - it keeps coming back! If I didn't
have this sense of humor --- I'd of layed me
down and died long ago! Be well
Kay Elizabeth

[Brian Fletcher]

Is there another Shasta that posts here?

Just consider this possibility. (and de personalise it).

The clearer someone becomes, the more of a mirror they become for others. On
that basis, those who dont yet realise all of reality lies within them, and
have yet to face their inner demons, see only their own reflections through
such people.

I have found her to be a great giver. Passionate about "the subject",
knowledgeable, and caring.

Reason I know of this phenomena, is that some people who are close to me,
who also have demons to face, avoid my company as much as possible.

Some that have come through such stages, have told me that even when we were
not interacting, my image often popped up in their psyche.

Not me, but my image.(as it is with all of us, clear or otherwise) This is
how it works, but like anything else, its only experience that confirms
"knowing".

Post by freespirit
It really doesn't matter what another thinks of our views / beliefs, we
each must speak our own truths. I have no doubt in my mind that Shasta
does, as do you.
~~~~~Me: I agree totally. I believe that
experiences are to be shared. Some souls
are actually able to learn from another's
experience and save themselves time and
hurt and----whatever. I call shasta at her
game since there may be some poster or
lurker who can benefit from my experience.
i hold no grievence against shasta. I forgave
her and myself long ago. Forgiveness however
does not require reconciliation nor the breaking
of bread together. She posts some awesome
spiritual truths.....that's a fact. But as a friend
and confidant - - she fails miserably. Perhaps
you admire/respect her manner of posting to
others who obviously are hurting and seeking
spiritual counsel - - - I did for several months.
But after her verbal assault - which included
a betrayal of trust and ended in dishonesty and
lies I decided to move on -- get back on track
and into the light.
Yes I agree we will all arrive at the same destination------some paths
are a bit rockier
and longer than others. I never claimed to be
the brightest light in the room --- but
I got the message - - - there's a deep dark
hole on shasta's path and I have no need
to walk that way again.
With a face like mine one would be glad to loose it and hope no bugger
picks it up and returns it Hey you ain't seen it, if it gets any worse
it will look better :0) Take care
Dave
~~~Me: LOL ---- well me no pretty girl myself.
I've lost face many times - - - just my karma
I guess - - - it keeps coming back! If I didn't
have this sense of humor --- I'd of layed me
down and died long ago! Be well
Kay Elizabeth

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

WHEN ..... a "confidence" is an invitation to go with you, or any other,
into where I am not to enter, then, that by no means is a betrayal of
trust: it is rather, the upholding of The Trust.
I made that decision at the time; a decision to this day has no regret
even though it ignited differences. On neither side / view ... is there
a "right" or "wrong", and, on neither is there a "lie."

Whatever one searches out and requires to satisfy the self, one will
seek. But, beyond that, there exists an answer.....when one is able to
lay aside the leadings and longings from the self.
It is not an easy task, but it is..... why we are where we are.
=A0
Within the human (form) there is a great pull of attraction, often
unchecked and unguarded via in the name of love. Even this, when finally
laid to rest, .... The Door Opens. When it does, there remains but One
Name as The Power of Love.

The beginning and the ending of the circle approaches in This Name, from
within.



+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

The Way of Cosmic Christ Consciousness in not walked by name calling nor
bearing false witness.

Again, as before, ...always,
may you find Peace with your - SELF.


+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[freespirit]

Hi Kay
When I have asked for help in the past, I found I had already formulated the
how and when that help should present itself. Any help I received was
measured against that format and on more then one occasion got upset when it
did not. A lesson I learnt was one cannot dictate what help is and to be
honest I doubt I was in the best position to judge what was needed.
Sometimes love hurts. It is only my experience and not meant to portray more
then that.
Take care
Dave
--
freespirit at my-space dot org dot uk
www dot my-space dot org dot uk

Post by freespirit
It really doesn't matter what another thinks of our views / beliefs, we
each must speak our own truths. I have no doubt in my mind that Shasta
does, as do you.
~~~~~Me: I agree totally. I believe that
experiences are to be shared. Some souls
are actually able to learn from another's
experience and save themselves time and
hurt and----whatever. I call shasta at her
game since there may be some poster or
lurker who can benefit from my experience.
i hold no grievence against shasta. I forgave
her and myself long ago. Forgiveness however
does not require reconciliation nor the breaking
of bread together. She posts some awesome
spiritual truths.....that's a fact. But as a friend
and confidant - - she fails miserably. Perhaps
you admire/respect her manner of posting to
others who obviously are hurting and seeking
spiritual counsel - - - I did for several months.
But after her verbal assault - which included
a betrayal of trust and ended in dishonesty and
lies I decided to move on -- get back on track
and into the light.
Yes I agree we will all arrive at the same destination------some paths
are a bit rockier
and longer than others. I never claimed to be
the brightest light in the room --- but
I got the message - - - there's a deep dark
hole on shasta's path and I have no need
to walk that way again.
With a face like mine one would be glad to loose it and hope no bugger
picks it up and returns it Hey you ain't seen it, if it gets any worse
it will look better :0) Take care
Dave
~~~Me: LOL ---- well me no pretty girl myself.
I've lost face many times - - - just my karma
I guess - - - it keeps coming back! If I didn't
have this sense of humor --- I'd of layed me
down and died long ago! Be well
Kay Elizabeth

[Mike the Kiwi]

Post by freespirit
When I have asked for help in the past, I found I had already formulated the
how and when that help should present itself. Any help I received was
measured against that format and on more then one occasion got upset when it
did not. A lesson I learnt was one cannot dictate what help is and to be
honest I doubt I was in the best position to judge what was needed.
Sometimes love hurts. It is only my experience and not meant to portray more
then that.

Dave, you words come as a revelation to me if by no other means than their unbiased common sense.
I see that Shasta's initial response to my post, although misunderstood by me, was a form of help from her simply in a format
that I did not expect.

A good lesson to learn and keep in mind.

Kindest regards
Mike the (a lesson here, a lesson there ;) Kiwi

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

Mike ~

Let us for a moment, consider the idea that each of us is ......
"walking the way of The Christ." That Way is not without its
misunderstandings, differences, judgement, percecution, betrayal, trial,
and crucifixion.
The difficult thing to grasp in this idea,..... is, that all of the
above is done unto the Christ within us, and is done by us.

The deeper this idea (Ideal) is taken into our inner being, we begin to
heal the all areas of "separation."

Change occurs in our life by one thing alone: it occurs by and through
our agreement. NO one can do anything for us or to us, without our
agreement. Agreement makes it ours: a new point from which we perceive,
receive and associate.
Such is ..... the Power of The Word ....always.

Maybe, too often , we are "open" to hearing what we _want_ to hear and
may not hear what we _need_ to hear.
Listening within is what clarifies the One from "other."

Blessings to you






+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

In response to three e.mails
and to clarify the [[ ..]] paragraph,
the following is offered.


[[ That Way is not without its misunderstandings, differences,
judgement, percecution, betrayal, trial, and crucifixion. The difficult
thing to grasp in this idea,..... is, that all of the above is done unto
the Christ within us, and is done by us. The deeper this idea (Ideal) is
taken into our inner being, we begin to heal all the areas of
"separation." ]]
---------------


The small, personal-self experiences the struggle, confusion, aloness,
suffering, fear, through its attempts to survive: in those attempts it
but seeks acceptance, recognition, name, importance and power " TO BE. "

It is ... the Christ within which has and is The Power to withstand and
to resolve the misunderstandings, differences, judgement, percecution,
betrayal, trial, and crucifixion.

The small self, is nothing, does nothing, knows nothing, has nothing. It
is our small self which is .....vulnerable, and attempts to defend
itself; yet, this small self has no power even though it "thinks" it
does, of can, or has, or knows, etc. This is HOW and WHERE what we call
"separation" takes place: it is part of the illusion.

Whenever our small, personal-self turns over to the Christ within, these
challenges, The Way is opened and revealed to us.
ALL things done in His name .... allows The Light, The Love, The Life
... ( the resurrection ) or trancendance of "as below, as above" to
occur; within us, as us. It is the principle taught through the
statement, " I AM The Way "

When the "small self" brings all things to the Feet of The Master (
Christ within ), and, thus "offers up" and releases them, The Christ is
The revealing / healing BEING of Power .... in us, as us, through us.
This is The Coming (reappearance) of Christ, now, but not as an "example
for man", but rather, "through man ...... all man."


+
Namaste*
shasta


Welcome to news:alt.spirituality.circle

.

[shasta ___________ ______ :]

ttt

[A***@webtv.net]

Hi Dave --- again your message is clear and
heard. Indeed my opportunity was/is to let go
of expectations. Somehow I continue to think
feel believe and finally know that beyond all
the talk talk talk of enlightenment, mirrors and
such lies the real challenge. Put whatever
name to it suits the individual journey -- it
still comes down to: do unto others as we
would be done unto.

The older I get -- the simplier the lesson.
It can be summed up in one word:

compassion.

All I need to know I learned in kindergarden.

If someone falls down -- help them get
up.

Be well
Kay

[Mymoonbeams]

Post by Mike the Kiwi
Sorry, I don't follow your meaning Lisa, the only *consequence* I can see
from a long term romantic relationship would be
more enjoyment and love in my life.
Nothing bad at all.
Mike <scratching head>

Ok Kiwi,
Let's say I just removed the curse from you....what is stopping you right now
from meeting someone 'available'?
It's been said that at any given moment there is 'someone' out there for
someone else looking. Are you being too picky?
There must be places where you can meet women in NZ.
If you feel for some reason that you cursed yourself, psychologically, that has
to do with fear, worthiness, etc......carrying over to this moment in time.
Violet