Looking for Bruckner's 7th

[Andrew Conkling]

The Philadelphia Orchestra this weekend has put on a performance of
Bruckner's 7th. This being my second go at hearing one of his (the
first was in the winter, when they performed his 5th), I was a bit
more able to appreciate his musical language, so to speak. (Before I
had heard either, all I knew about Bruckner was that he was a
contemporary of Brahms, so I expected something similar. :)

Anyway, soon after the last performance, I heard Ormandy's recording
of the 5th with Philadelphia and really liked it. I'm not always a
fan of Ormandy, but have enjoyed some of his recordings: Brahms's
Hungarian Dances, Mendelssohn's 4th, Midsummer Night's Dream,
Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. I definitely don't really like his
Mozart (I prefer the tighter sound of, say, Szell. :) (I
realise--now--that most of the recordings I list here are the only
ones I have of the pieces, so maybe that's why I still like them. :)

Anyway, I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th, so I was
looking around online to see what's out there: Columbia/Walter,
Wiener/Szell, City of Birmingham/Rattle, there's an Ormandy of course,
but not on CD, and I refuse to listen to Karajan. I also heard from
the lecturer at the concert hall last night that the recording with
the Royal Scottish NO/George Tintner is really good. He played a few
excerpts and I couldn't disagree, but I'm wary of buying recordings of
no-namers.

Can anyone recommend a recording? FWIW, I normally like a good
orchestral colour like George Szell's demand of Cleveland, where the
intonation is good. That's important.

Thanks, and I look forward to y'all's strong opinions,
Andrew

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Andrew Conkling
The Philadelphia Orchestra this weekend has put on a performance of
Bruckner's 7th. This being my second go at hearing one of his (the first
was in the winter, when they performed his 5th), I was a bit more able to
appreciate his musical language, so to speak. (Before I had heard
either, all I knew about Bruckner was that he was a contemporary of
Brahms, so I expected something similar. :)
Anyway, soon after the last performance, I heard Ormandy's recording of
the 5th with Philadelphia and really liked it. I'm not always a fan of
Ormandy, but have enjoyed some of his recordings: Brahms's Hungarian
Dances, Mendelssohn's 4th, Midsummer Night's Dream, Rodrigo's Concierto
de Aranjuez. I definitely don't really like his Mozart (I prefer the
tighter sound of, say, Szell. :) (I realise--now--that most of the
recordings I list here are the only ones I have of the pieces, so maybe
that's why I still like them. :)
Anyway, I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th, so I was
looking around online to see what's out there: Columbia/Walter,
Wiener/Szell, City of Birmingham/Rattle, there's an Ormandy of course,
but not on CD, and I refuse to listen to Karajan. I also heard from the
lecturer at the concert hall last night that the recording with the Royal
Scottish NO/George Tintner is really good. He played a few excerpts and
I couldn't disagree, but I'm wary of buying recordings of no-namers.
Can anyone recommend a recording? FWIW, I normally like a good
orchestral colour like George Szell's demand of Cleveland, where the
intonation is good. That's important.
Thanks, and I look forward to y'all's strong opinions,

Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken Radio Symphony Orchestra on Arte Nova is
excellent, in good sound, and cheap. It's just not easy to find any more.

[s***@nospamprovide.net]

Post by Andrew Conkling
The Philadelphia Orchestra this weekend has put on a performance of
Bruckner's 7th. This being my second go at hearing one of his (the
first was in the winter, when they performed his 5th), I was a bit
more able to appreciate his musical language, so to speak. (Before I
had heard either, all I knew about Bruckner was that he was a
contemporary of Brahms, so I expected something similar. :)
Anyway, soon after the last performance, I heard Ormandy's recording
of the 5th with Philadelphia and really liked it. I'm not always a
fan of Ormandy, but have enjoyed some of his recordings: Brahms's
Hungarian Dances, Mendelssohn's 4th, Midsummer Night's Dream,
Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. I definitely don't really like his
Mozart (I prefer the tighter sound of, say, Szell. :) (I
realise--now--that most of the recordings I list here are the only
ones I have of the pieces, so maybe that's why I still like them. :)
Anyway, I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th, so I was
looking around online to see what's out there: Columbia/Walter,
Wiener/Szell, City of Birmingham/Rattle, there's an Ormandy of course,
but not on CD, and I refuse to listen to Karajan. I also heard from
the lecturer at the concert hall last night that the recording with
the Royal Scottish NO/George Tintner is really good. He played a few
excerpts and I couldn't disagree, but I'm wary of buying recordings of
no-namers.
Can anyone recommend a recording? FWIW, I normally like a good
orchestral colour like George Szell's demand of Cleveland, where the
intonation is good. That's important.
Thanks, and I look forward to y'all's strong opinions,
Andrew

While Karajan \VPO may not be to your liking,..( which I prefer over
the terribly overated EMI version ) you may wish to consider Wand
on RCA with the Berlin Phil. or Chailly on Decca.

S. Sobolewski

[Lionel Tacchini]

Post by Andrew Conkling
The Philadelphia Orchestra this weekend has put on a performance of
Bruckner's 7th. This being my second go at hearing one of his (the
first was in the winter, when they performed his 5th), I was a bit
more able to appreciate his musical language, so to speak. (Before I
had heard either, all I knew about Bruckner was that he was a
contemporary of Brahms, so I expected something similar. :)
Anyway, soon after the last performance, I heard Ormandy's recording
of the 5th with Philadelphia and really liked it. I'm not always a
fan of Ormandy, but have enjoyed some of his recordings: Brahms's
Hungarian Dances, Mendelssohn's 4th, Midsummer Night's Dream,
Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. I definitely don't really like his
Mozart (I prefer the tighter sound of, say, Szell. :) (I
realise--now--that most of the recordings I list here are the only
ones I have of the pieces, so maybe that's why I still like them. :)
Anyway, I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th, so I was
looking around online to see what's out there: Columbia/Walter,
Wiener/Szell, City of Birmingham/Rattle, there's an Ormandy of course,
but not on CD, and I refuse to listen to Karajan.

Wise decision, he wasn't good in Bruckner.

Post by Andrew Conkling
I also heard from
the lecturer at the concert hall last night that the recording with
the Royal Scottish NO/George Tintner is really good. He played a few
excerpts and I couldn't disagree, but I'm wary of buying recordings of
no-namers.

Tintner is not a no-name anymore. His 7th is one of the best around
(I have heard over 60 recordings of the work), subtle, heartfelt
and very much in the spirit of the music.
I also have a good memory of Szell in a lean and effective rendition
but I believe it is mono, so know what you're buying.
The most convincing 7th I know in stereo are by Klemperer (EMI) and
Jochum / Berlin (DG). I also have fond memories of the singing qualities
of Abaddo's recording, whose Bruckner tends to be underrated.

Post by Andrew Conkling
Can anyone recommend a recording? FWIW, I normally like a good
orchestral colour like George Szell's demand of Cleveland, where the
intonation is good. That's important.

My recommendations are based on interpretation only.

Lionel Tacchini

[Ian Pace]

Post by Andrew Conkling
The Philadelphia Orchestra this weekend has put on a performance of
Bruckner's 7th. This being my second go at hearing one of his (the
first was in the winter, when they performed his 5th), I was a bit
more able to appreciate his musical language, so to speak. (Before I
had heard either, all I knew about Bruckner was that he was a
contemporary of Brahms, so I expected something similar. :)
Anyway, soon after the last performance, I heard Ormandy's recording
of the 5th with Philadelphia and really liked it. I'm not always a
fan of Ormandy, but have enjoyed some of his recordings: Brahms's
Hungarian Dances, Mendelssohn's 4th, Midsummer Night's Dream,
Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. I definitely don't really like his
Mozart (I prefer the tighter sound of, say, Szell. :) (I
realise--now--that most of the recordings I list here are the only
ones I have of the pieces, so maybe that's why I still like them. :)
Anyway, I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th, so I was
looking around online to see what's out there: Columbia/Walter,
Wiener/Szell, City of Birmingham/Rattle, there's an Ormandy of course,
but not on CD, and I refuse to listen to Karajan. I also heard from
the lecturer at the concert hall last night that the recording with
the Royal Scottish NO/George Tintner is really good. He played a few
excerpts and I couldn't disagree, but I'm wary of buying recordings of
no-namers.
Can anyone recommend a recording? FWIW, I normally like a good
orchestral colour like George Szell's demand of Cleveland, where the
intonation is good. That's important.
Thanks, and I look forward to y'all's strong opinions,
Andrew

Jochum's EMI recording with the Dresden Statskapelle is very worth having
(worth getting the whole set); for something completely different, look for
Celebidache (I think there are several recordings). I wish Boulez would
also record this (love his Bruckner 8 and 9, especially the former).

Best,
Ian

[Lionel Tacchini]

Post by Ian Pace
Jochum's EMI recording with the Dresden Statskapelle is very worth having
(worth getting the whole set); for something completely different, look for
Celebidache (I think there are several recordings).

Celibidache turns a 60 mn work into an 80 mn one.
This is nothing to start with for someone in the process of
discovering Bruckner's music.

Lionel Tacchini

[Simon Roberts]

Post by Lionel Tacchini

Post by Ian Pace
Jochum's EMI recording with the Dresden Statskapelle is very worth having
(worth getting the whole set); for something completely different, look for
Celebidache (I think there are several recordings).

Celibidache turns a 60 mn work into an 80 mn one.

That's only true (if you must put it like that) of his late performances (which
are more than 80, aren't they?). The Stuttgart recording (nowhere near as good
as the slow EMI) is pretty conventional in terms of tempi, isn't it?

Simon

[Lionel Tacchini]

Post by Simon Roberts

Post by Lionel Tacchini

Post by Ian Pace
Jochum's EMI recording with the Dresden Statskapelle is very worth having
(worth getting the whole set); for something completely different, look for
Celebidache (I think there are several recordings).

Celibidache turns a 60 mn work into an 80 mn one.

That's only true (if you must put it like that) of his late performances (which
are more than 80, aren't they?). The Stuttgart recording (nowhere near as good
as the slow EMI) is pretty conventional in terms of tempi, isn't it?

The Stuttgart recording from 1971, albeit slow, remains within common
limits at 66'30 but everything else is way beyond normal, from 74 mn
in 1985 to 86 mn in 1992.

Lionel Tacchini

[Richard Schultz]

In article <j0Lnc.15965$***@news1.nokia.com>, Lionel Tacchini <***@arcor.de> wrote:
: Simon Roberts wrote:
:> In article <iRunc.15849$***@news1.nokia.com>, Lionel Tacchini says...

:>>Celibidache turns a 60 mn work into an 80 mn one.

:> That's only true (if you must put it like that) of his late performances
:> (which are more than 80, aren't they?).

: The Stuttgart recording from 1971, albeit slow, remains within common
: limits at 66'30 but everything else is way beyond normal, from 74 mn
: in 1985 to 86 mn in 1992.

If you're looking for an up-tempo Bruckner 7th, you could try the old
Steinberg/Pittsburgh Symphony recording, which comes screaming in at
60:29. Whether he really wanted it that fast or if he was speeding
along to fit it all on one record is a matter of conjecture. The recording
also features a prominent trumpet flub near the end.


-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
". . . Mengelberg was not the kind of artist who would let us walk home
after a concert with the feeling of having experienced an extraordinary
musical event."
-- Max Rudolf, _The Grammar of Conducting_

[Lionel Tacchini]

Post by Richard Schultz
:>>Celibidache turns a 60 mn work into an 80 mn one.
:> That's only true (if you must put it like that) of his late performances
:> (which are more than 80, aren't they?).
: The Stuttgart recording from 1971, albeit slow, remains within common
: limits at 66'30 but everything else is way beyond normal, from 74 mn
: in 1985 to 86 mn in 1992.
If you're looking for an up-tempo Bruckner 7th, you could try the old
Steinberg/Pittsburgh Symphony recording, which comes screaming in at
60:29. Whether he really wanted it that fast or if he was speeding
along to fit it all on one record is a matter of conjecture.

He wanted it that fast, there are other recordings of the 7th by
Steinberg with comparable tempi. He also gave some of the fastest
perormances of the 8th symphony on record.

But 60:29 is not "fast", there are many performances under 60 mn
and the metronome markings of the original score sum up to 57 mn
when applied.

Post by Richard Schultz
The recording
also features a prominent trumpet flub near the end.

That wasn't wanted ;-)

Lionel Tacchini

[Sol L. Siegel]

Post by Lionel Tacchini
Celibidache turns a 60 mn work into an 80 mn one.

That's only true (if you must put it like that) of his late >performances

(which are more than 80, aren't they?).

The Munich 7th on EMI (1994) is a bit over 79 minutes; if they'd
left out the applause they could have fit it on one disc. I played
part of it last night and found it better than before: it has a
tonal richness and variety you don't always hear in Bruckner
performances.

-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"I really liked it. Even the music was good." - Yogi Berra, after seeing
"Tosca"
--------------------
(Remove "exitspam" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)

[Alex]

Post by Andrew Conkling
The Philadelphia Orchestra this weekend has put on a performance of
Bruckner's 7th. This being my second go at hearing one of his (the
first was in the winter, when they performed his 5th), I was a bit
more able to appreciate his musical language, so to speak. (Before I
had heard either, all I knew about Bruckner was that he was a
contemporary of Brahms, so I expected something similar. :)
Anyway, soon after the last performance, I heard Ormandy's recording
of the 5th with Philadelphia and really liked it. I'm not always a
fan of Ormandy, but have enjoyed some of his recordings: Brahms's
Hungarian Dances, Mendelssohn's 4th, Midsummer Night's Dream,
Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. I definitely don't really like his
Mozart (I prefer the tighter sound of, say, Szell. :) (I
realise--now--that most of the recordings I list here are the only
ones I have of the pieces, so maybe that's why I still like them. :)
Anyway, I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th, so I was
looking around online to see what's out there: Columbia/Walter,
Wiener/Szell, City of Birmingham/Rattle, there's an Ormandy of course,
but not on CD, and I refuse to listen to Karajan.

Well, you will miss what I consider to be a superb interpretation, his DG
recording with the VPO - although I don't normally care for Karajan in
Bruckner.

[Stephen Worth]

Post by Alex
Well, you will miss what I consider to be a superb interpretation, his DG
recording with the VPO - although I don't normally care for Karajan in
Bruckner.

I'll second that. I have several Karajan Bruckner symphonies and the
best by far is the 7th. I used to have an LP box by Bohm that I liked a
lot, but I don't remember if that was 7, 8 & 9 or just 8 & 9.

See ya
Steve
--
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FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/


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[David M. Cook]

[...] I used to have an LP box by Bohm that I liked a
lot, but I don't remember if that was 7, 8 & 9 or just 8 & 9.

This was released on CD in Europe, but I've only heard the live VPO
recording on Andante, which is very beautiful (and probably not much
different from the commercial recording).

Dave Cook

[Bob Harper]

Post by Stephen Worth
I'll second that. I have several Karajan Bruckner symphonies and the
best by far is the 7th. I used to have an LP box by Bohm that I liked a
lot, but I don't remember if that was 7, 8 & 9 or just 8 & 9.
See ya
Steve

Actually it was 7 & 8. I had the LPs. English DG pressings.

Bob Harper

[Eltjo Meijer]

Post by Stephen Worth
I used to have an LP box by Bohm that I liked a

Post by Stephen Worth
lot, but I don't remember if that was 7, 8 & 9 or just 8 & 9.

Actually it was 7 & 8. I had the LPs. English DG pressings.

The were released in the DG Galleria budget cd series, even the 8th is
on a single cd (80'22").

Eltjo Meijer
***@[e-mail]
(a=@=a, 1=e)

[Andrew Conkling]

Post by Alex
you will miss what I consider to be a superb interpretation, his DG
recording with the VPO - although I don't normally care for Karajan in
Bruckner.

It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis
Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly
Nazi.

[Bob Harper]

Post by Andrew Conkling
It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis
Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly
Nazi.

(Sigh) You're welcome to deprive yourself, and for certain the man was
an opportunist, but 'dastardly Nazi' seems a little OTT. I've been
listening to his EMI 'Falstaff' and hear nothing but wonderful music-making.

Bob Harper

[Andrew T. Kay]

Post by Bob Harper
You're welcome to deprive yourself, and for certain the man was
an opportunist, but 'dastardly Nazi' seems a little OTT. I've been
listening to his EMI 'Falstaff' and hear nothing but wonderful music-making.

Seconded on both matters. Hyperbolic though this will sound, if I could only
keep one recording of any Verdi opera, it would be that one. I wouldn't even
need to think it over.

OT for _Falstaff_ lovers: The Muti/Scala performance on EuroArts DVD, a
deliberately old-fashioned 2001 staging at the little Busseto theater, is a
delight. If you're staying away because you think the whip-cracking,
straitjacketing "bad" Muti will race through this opera, robbing it of its
charm and humor, give yourself a pleasant surprise -- he's at his very best,
and has a splendid cast. This now assumes a high place on my list of
recommendations for this opera in any medium.

(The forced-rhyming English translation in the subtitles is funny in the wrong
way, though. ["Alice, I can't be coy and flirty/So I'll say what I feel, even
though it's dirty."] I think I'll be doing without the subtitles next time.)


--Todd K

[David7Gable]

Post by Bob Harper
I've been

Post by Bob Harper
listening to his EMI 'Falstaff' and hear nothing but wonderful music-making.

Seconded on both matters. Hyperbolic though this will sound, if I could only
keep one recording of any Verdi opera, it would be that one. I wouldn't even
need to think it over.

I would. I like much of this famous performance and specifically Karajan's
contribution to it, but he doesn't do nearly enough "milking" of the few short
lyric passages for my taste, e.g. some of Nanetta's and/or Fenton's music. (I
am also not a big fan of Schwarzkopf's Alice, although it's by no means as
fussy and mannered as one might have feared. I don't dislike her Alice, but
other Alice's strike me as more idiomatic.) If I could only keep one Falstaff,
it would be Toscanini/NBC. Toscanini is as good as Karajan throughout most of
it and better in the slow lyric moments, milking them just the right amount
rather than not at all (and a very little bit is just enough, but Karajan is
oddly blank in the passages I have in mind.)

If I had to nominate the best conducted Verdi opera recordings on record the
candidates would include Toscanini's Falstaff, Renato Cellini's Rigoletto, and
Francesco Molinari-Pradelli's Traviata. I will concede that the famous EMI
Falstaff is the best Verdi performance I've ever heard from Karajan.

-david gable

[Stephen Worth]

Post by Andrew Conkling
It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis
Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly
Nazi.

You don't listen to Strauss either?

See ya
Steve
--
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[Van Eyes]

Post by Andrew Conkling
It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis
Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly
Nazi.

Sorry, the ownership of one recording disqualifies you from protesting.

Dastardly, defined as cowardly, fearful...you would've preferred him
taking a more active role in WWII?


Regards

[Andrew Conkling]

Post by Van Eyes
Dastardly, defined as cowardly, fearful...you would've preferred him
taking a more active role in WWII?

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=dastardly:
characterized by underhandedness or treachery
(Were I to realise that dastardly had another definition as cowardly,
I would have chosen a different, less ambiguous word.)

[Van Eyes]

Post by Andrew Conkling

Post by Van Eyes
Dastardly, defined as cowardly, fearful...you would've preferred him
taking a more active role in WWII?

characterized by underhandedness or treachery
(Were I to realise that dastardly had another definition as cowardly,
I would have chosen a different, less ambiguous word.)

Treasonous? You're flailing about now...better quit, and sell that one
recording, too. <:-]


Regards

[Simon Roberts]

In article <***@posting.google.com>, Andrew Conkling
says...

Post by Andrew Conkling

Post by Van Eyes
Dastardly, defined as cowardly, fearful...you would've preferred him
taking a more active role in WWII?

characterized by underhandedness or treachery
(Were I to realise that dastardly had another definition as cowardly,
I would have chosen a different, less ambiguous word.)

OED: "showing mean or despicable cowardice"

But even allowing the definition you cite, what did he do that was dastardly?
And, as others have noted, if it's OK to have one Karajan recording, why not
two?

Simon

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Conkling says...

Post by Andrew Conkling

Post by Van Eyes
Dastardly, defined as cowardly, fearful...you would've preferred him
taking a more active role in WWII?

characterized by underhandedness or treachery
(Were I to realise that dastardly had another definition as cowardly,
I would have chosen a different, less ambiguous word.)

OED: "showing mean or despicable cowardice"
But even allowing the definition you cite, what did he do that was
dastardly? And, as others have noted, if it's OK to have one Karajan
recording, why not two?

Didn't he do things which undercut Furtwängler professionally? For some
people in this newsgroup, that would be enough to incriminate him.

[Stephen Worth]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Didn't he do things which undercut Furtwängler professionally? For some
people in this newsgroup, that would be enough to incriminate him.

Richard Strauss happily accepted the baton for a performance in Berlin
substituting for Bruno Walter who had been driven out of his post and
the city by the Nazis. Years later, Walter was asked why he continued o
play Strauss's music, and Walter replied that someone could be a
despicable person and still be gifted with musical genius.

See ya
Steve
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FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/


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[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Stephen Worth

Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Didn't he do things which undercut Furtwängler professionally? For some
people in this newsgroup, that would be enough to incriminate him.

Richard Strauss happily accepted the baton for a performance in Berlin
substituting for Bruno Walter who had been driven out of his post and
the city by the Nazis. Years later, Walter was asked why he continued o
play Strauss's music, and Walter replied that someone could be a
despicable person and still be gifted with musical genius.

Don't forget what happened between Strauss and another extremely well-known
conductor. Strauss supposedly entrusted the Italian premiere of _Salome_
to Toscanini, then when an offer arose with more money undercut his rival
by conducting it a few days earlier in another Italian city. Toscanini is
said to have fumed over this, and at an encounter between the two men,
said, "To Richard Strauss the composer, I take off my hat. But to Strauss
the man, I put on ten hats!"

[Richard Schultz]

In article <***@207.217.125.204>, "Matthew?B.?Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
: Simon Roberts <***@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following
: letters to be typed in news:***@drn.newsguy.com:

:> But even allowing the definition you cite, what did he [Karajan] do that was
:> dastardly?

: Didn't he do things which undercut Furtw?ngler professionally? For some
: people in this newsgroup, that would be enough to incriminate him.

I also believe that he used the forced exodus of Bruno Walter as an
opportunity for rapid professional advancement. That *someone* thought
that his behavior was unacceptable is probably reflected in the biographical
blurbs that appear on his recordings, which tend to be mysteriously silent
about what he was doing in the years immediately following World War II.

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .

[Sol L. Siegel]

Post by Richard Schultz
:> But even allowing the definition you cite, what did he [Karajan]
:> do that was dastardly?
I also believe that he used the forced exodus of Bruno Walter as
an opportunity for rapid professional advancement. That
*someone* thought that his behavior was unacceptable is
probably reflected in the biographical blurbs that appear on his
recordings, which tend to be mysteriously silent about what he
was doing in the years immediately following World War II.

IIRC, he (along with Furtwangler, Bohm, Jochum and others) was
being "De-Nazified" by Allied authorities. It's a cruel irony that
they were all back at work in a couple of years while Mengelberg
languished, a scapegoat barred from the podium until his death.
But that's another story.

-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"I really liked it. Even the music was good." - Yogi Berra, after seeing
"Tosca"
--------------------
(Remove "exitspam" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)

[Van Eyes]

Post by Sol L. Siegel

....biographical blurbs that appear on his
recordings, which tend to be mysteriously silent about what he
was doing in the years immediately following World War II.

IIRC, he (along with Furtwangler, Bohm, Jochum and others) was
being "De-Nazified" by Allied authorities....

The mystery I recall about HvK absence, related to a period during the
war...when supposedly he took refuge in Switzerland.


Regards

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Van Eyes

....biographical blurbs that appear on his recordings, which tend to be
mysteriously silent about what he was doing in the years immediately
following World War II.

IIRC, he (along with Furtwangler, Bohm, Jochum and others) was being
"De-Nazified" by Allied authorities....

The mystery I recall about HvK absence, related to a period during the
war...when supposedly he took refuge in Switzerland.

At a higher standard of living than, say, Josef Schmidt.

[s***@earthlink.net]

Post by Simon Roberts
But even allowing the definition you cite, what did he do that was dastardly?
And, as others have noted, if it's OK to have one Karajan recording, why not
two?

As in: if it's OK to have a wife, why not two?

regards,
SG





( :

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Alex
you will miss what I consider to be a superb interpretation, his DG
recording with the VPO - although I don't normally care for Karajan in
Bruckner.

It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have only
one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis Brain on
horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly Nazi.

By some accounts, he was a grasping opportunist. It was people like Oswald
Kabasta and Hans Pfitzner who were *committed* Nazis, racist scumballs who
thought they should rule the world. Compared to them Karajan's were mere
schoolboy's sins, in my opinion of course.

[Alex]

Post by Andrew Conkling

Post by Alex
you will miss what I consider to be a superb interpretation, his DG
recording with the VPO - although I don't normally care for Karajan in
Bruckner.

It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis
Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly
Nazi.

No need to boycott HvK, he never hurt a fly, but I wouldn't disagree with
his being an opportunist. No need to rake over all that for the nth time,
though. Just get and enjoy the best of his recordings, Sibelius, R.
Strauss, a few Mozart and Verdi operas, Wagner etc. And the phenomenal VPO
Bruckner 7th.

[Vincent Ventrone]

Post by Alex
No need to boycott HvK, he never hurt a fly, but I wouldn't disagree with
his being an opportunist. No need to rake over all that for the nth time,

Indeed - if anything he was just bending with the political wind...

Post by Alex
though. Just get and enjoy the best of his recordings, Sibelius, R.
Strauss, a few Mozart and Verdi operas, Wagner etc. And the phenomenal VPO
Bruckner 7th.

However, that said, there are people like me who simply don't like the
homogenized orchestral sound he insisted on. OTOH some may like that very
much...

[Lionel Tacchini]

Post by Vincent Ventrone

Post by Alex
though. Just get and enjoy the best of his recordings, Sibelius, R.
Strauss, a few Mozart and Verdi operas, Wagner etc. And the phenomenal

VPO

Post by Alex
Bruckner 7th.

However, that said, there are people like me who simply don't like the
homogenized orchestral sound he insisted on.

Absolutely, there is a richness of tone in the 7th which is barely
audible in his recordings, an edge to many a passage which goes
unnoticed not to speak of the lack of expression in phrasing
or the dead rigidity of tempo.

Karajan's Bruckner is moslty a glossy bore.

Lionel Tacchini

[Stephen North]

Post by Andrew Conkling

Post by Alex
you will miss what I consider to be a superb interpretation, his DG
recording with the VPO - although I don't normally care for Karajan in
Bruckner.

It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis
Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly
Nazi.

What a difficult stance to maintain - which musicians are precluded
from your listening through this kind of reasoning? Is it just Nazis
you object to, what about Stalinists? How about Richter, Gilels,
Oistrakh and Kogan - they were all party members?

And which composers do you avoid for the same reasons?

There are plenty of folk who have committed far graver sins than
Karajan on your shelves I bet - got any Wagner ?

Relax - just sample the glorious VPO/Karajan Bruckner 7 once.

While I enjoy many of the recordings so far recommended, IMHO no one
has HvK's grasp of this piece.

S

[Andrew T. Kay]

Post by Stephen North
Relax - just sample the glorious VPO/Karajan Bruckner 7 once.
While I enjoy many of the recordings so far recommended, IMHO no one
has HvK's grasp of this piece.

My favorite Bruckner 7 is his earlier EMI recording (I'm among those vastly
overrating it, I guess). However, if someone, for whatever reason, finds
Karajan anathema, the piece has been well-served by others, as the thread
demonstrates...


--Todd K

[Richard Schultz]

In article <***@posting.google.com>, Andrew Conkling <***@fr.st> wrote:
: "Alex" <***@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<jOwnc.21738$***@front-1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...

: It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
: only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis Brain on
: horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly Nazi.

He was also an awful conductor of Mozart. If you want a Nazi-free
recording of the Mozart horn concerti, there's always Tuckwell/Maag/LSO,
which (at least in the LP incarnation) includes a recording of the unfinished
one that ends exactly where Mozart did -- in the middle of a measure.
I was going to say "in the middle of a bar," but I don't know if that's
really where Mozart was at the time, although it would certainly explain
his inability to finish writing the piece.

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .

[Andrew T. Kay]

Post by Richard Schultz
: It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
: only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis Brain on
: horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly Nazi.
He was also an awful conductor of Mozart.

I would downgrade (upgrade?) awful to "inconsistent." I have little use for
his recordings of the symphonies and the Requiem etc., but I find him anything
but awful in the EMI _Cosi_ and the gripping Orfeo _Don Giovanni_ with Ghiaurov
and Janowitz (and, actually, I think he's very good in those concerti with
Brain, although I see the point of those who find them a bit dated,
stylistically).


--Todd K

[Rodger Whitlock]

Post by Andrew Conkling
It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis
Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly
Nazi.

A reminder that the beautiful flower of the lotus emerges from
the muck at the bottom of lakes.

[s***@earthlink.net]

Post by Rodger Whitlock

Post by Andrew Conkling
It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis
Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly
Nazi.

A reminder that the beautiful flower of the lotus emerges from
the muck at the bottom of lakes.

I'll take this as an oblique reference to Karajan being a German
conductor forged in the Muck tradition.

regards,
SG ( :

[Lionel Tacchini]

Post by s***@earthlink.net

Post by Rodger Whitlock

Post by Andrew Conkling
It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis
Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly
Nazi.

A reminder that the beautiful flower of the lotus emerges from
the muck at the bottom of lakes.

I'll take this as an oblique reference to Karajan being a German
conductor forged in the Muck tradition.

He didn't sound much like Karl Muck, though ...
Too bad this guy did not record the 7th. He did conduct it.

Lionel Tacchini

[Paul Goldstein]

Post by Lionel Tacchini

Post by s***@earthlink.net

Post by Rodger Whitlock

Post by Andrew Conkling
It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with Dennis
Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he was a dastardly
Nazi.

A reminder that the beautiful flower of the lotus emerges from
the muck at the bottom of lakes.

I'll take this as an oblique reference to Karajan being a German
conductor forged in the Muck tradition.

He didn't sound much like Karl Muck, though ...
Too bad this guy did not record the 7th. He did conduct it.

Given the incandescence of Muck's Wagner, it is a great shame that we cannot
hear any of Muck's Bruckner.

Paul Goldstein

[Sol L. Siegel]

Post by Andrew Conkling
It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with
Dennis Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he
was a dastardly Nazi.

One could spend a lot of time speculating why Karajan was the
only conductor I consistently heard being referred to as "that
Nazi", even when there were others still on the scene who were
at least as enthusiastic about currying favor with the regime.
It wasn't because he joined the party in Austria (before 1938!)
and then again in Germany; the Austrian membership wasn't
known publicly until the 1980s, IIRC. It may simply have been
that his public manner and his conducting style made people
more prone to think of him that way.

I recall a New Republic article on the subject, ca. 1989; maybe
one day I'll try to look it up again.

-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"I really liked it. Even the music was good." - Yogi Berra, after seeing
"Tosca"
--------------------
(Remove "exitspam" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)

[Vincent Ventrone]

Post by Sol L. Siegel
known publicly until the 1980s, IIRC. It may simply have been
that his public manner and his conducting style made people
more prone to think of him that way.

That's certainly possible -- my understanding is that Karl Bohm *was* an
enthusiastic Nazi, but he seems to get no blame for it -- maybe because he
wasn't a prima donna?

[Stephen North]

Post by Sol L. Siegel

Post by Andrew Conkling
It's on matter of principle that I don't listen to Karajan (I have
only one recording, that of the Mozart Horn Concertos with
Dennis Brain on horn): from all accounts I've come across, he
was a dastardly Nazi.

One could spend a lot of time speculating why Karajan was the
only conductor I consistently heard being referred to as "that
Nazi", even when there were others still on the scene who were
at least as enthusiastic about currying favor with the regime.
It wasn't because he joined the party in Austria (before 1938!)
and then again in Germany; the Austrian membership wasn't
known publicly until the 1980s, IIRC. It may simply have been
that his public manner and his conducting style made people
more prone to think of him that way.
I recall a New Republic article on the subject, ca. 1989; maybe
one day I'll try to look it up again.
-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA

I recall a description of his last concert in London wherein David
Cairns described his conducting of the coda of the last movement of
Brahms 1 as "being kicked to death" - and with that any respect I had
for Cairns disappeared. It really was an OTT statement for a man
who's only crime, on that night at least, was to conduct a Brahms 1
which quite a lot of people in the hall enjoyed - including IIRC Simon
Rattle, Reginald Goodall and Bernard Haitink.

S

[Andrew Conkling]

While I _really_ don't appreciate the tenacity with which many of you
are willing to undercut someone's opinion*, I think you have made some
good points (or at least, quoted some, i.e. Walter on Strauss). My
opinion on Karajan comes mostly from what I have been taught, and
while I don't readily approve of many people's actions, yes, _we_ can
all indeed do good things in spite of (or even through) our bad
actions. It has been a healthy reminder to bring that upon my musical
tastes.

*-My own in the least; I have indeed read other posts herein from even
less educated (but probably more curious) people who have all but been
turned away by strong opinions and embittered speech.

Lest this digress any further, I thank you all for your numerous
_helpful_ recommendations. (See, good can come through less-than-good
motives and actions.) I will (continue to) seek the Tintner
recording, as I have not yet found it in my local music stores.

And yes, perhaps I will give Karajan a chance in the future, though
(mostly for intonational characteristics in the winds) I usually avoid
European recordings. That, however, is another story.

Kind regards,
Andrew

[Van Eyes]

I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th...

Klemperer (EMI Klemperer Legacy).


Regards

[Sol L. Siegel]

Post by Andrew Conkling
I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th, so I was
looking around online to see what's out there: Columbia/Walter,
Wiener/Szell, City of Birmingham/Rattle, there's an Ormandy of
course, but not on CD, and I refuse to listen to Karajan.

I don't care for Herbie the K myself, but his last version, with the
VPO on DG (his last recording, in fact), nails it.

Post by Andrew Conkling
I also heard from the lecturer at the concert hall last night that
the recording with the Royal Scottish NO/George Tintner is really
good. He played a few excerpts and I couldn't disagree, but I'm
wary of buying recordings of no-namers.

I was at that lecture, too, and I was amazed at how good it
sounded, even though I've heard the majority of his cycle and
find most of them highly involving. Buy with confidence. Take
note though, that Tintner is one of those who omit the
controversial cymbal crash (and triangle and rolling tympani)
at the climax of the Adagio.

Post by Andrew Conkling
Can anyone recommend a recording?

With the cymbal:

Karajan/VPO
Skrowaczewski, if you can find it.
Klemperer/EMI: appropriately monumental; he plays up the tempo
contrasts in the finale more than most. I also own an
exciting live version in a 3-disc Frequenz set that sometimes
turns up on eBay.
Celibidache (despite taking two discs, the second filled out with
a Te Deum best described as glacial, and its iffy availability,
and its cost even if you can find it...)

Without:

Tintner
Rosbaud: beautiful despite aging early-stereo sound.
Sanderling/Hanssler: a very powerful performance.



-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"I really liked it. Even the music was good." - Yogi Berra, after seeing
"Tosca"
--------------------
(Remove "exitspam" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)

[Bob Harper]

Post by Sol L. Siegel

Post by Andrew Conkling
Can anyone recommend a recording?

Karajan/VPO
Skrowaczewski, if you can find it.
Klemperer/EMI: appropriately monumental; he plays up the tempo
contrasts in the finale more than most. I also own an
exciting live version in a 3-disc Frequenz set that sometimes
turns up on eBay.
Celibidache (despite taking two discs, the second filled out with
a Te Deum best described as glacial, and its iffy availability,
and its cost even if you can find it...)
Tintner
Rosbaud: beautiful despite aging early-stereo sound.
Sanderling/Hanssler: a very powerful performance.
-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"I really liked it. Even the music was good." - Yogi Berra, after seeing
"Tosca"
--------------------
(Remove "exitspam" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)

Add Wand/BPO to the 'w/o cymbal' list. Unfortunately only an import in
the US (what else is new).

Bob Harper

[Raymond Hall]

Post by Andrew Conkling
Anyway, I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th, so I was
looking around online to see what's out there: Columbia/Walter,
Wiener/Szell, City of Birmingham/Rattle, there's an Ormandy of course,
but not on CD, and I refuse to listen to Karajan. I also heard from
the lecturer at the concert hall last night that the recording with
the Royal Scottish NO/George Tintner is really good. He played a few
excerpts and I couldn't disagree, but I'm wary of buying recordings of
no-namers.
Can anyone recommend a recording? FWIW, I normally like a good
orchestral colour like George Szell's demand of Cleveland, where the
intonation is good. That's important.

Tintner/RSNO on Naxos, or Rosbaud/SW German RSO on Vox (coupled with a Das
Lied) are the two that I admire the most. As the subject is Bruckner, for an
extra inexpensive dabble then also get Tintner's 3rd on Naxos. You won't
regret it. And Bohm's VPO 4th on Decca Legends.

But Hans Rosbaud is really memorable in the 7th (early but good stereo
sound), and Tintner (with his experienced and mature interpretation) has the
better sound.

Ray, Taree, NSW
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

[Paul Kintzele]

Post by Andrew Conkling
The Philadelphia Orchestra this weekend has put on a performance of
Bruckner's 7th.

What did you think of the performance? I was there last night. Was the
addition of the Fidelio overture announced anywhere, to anyone? Hearing
Beethoven when I expected Messiaen caused a moment of extreme
cognitive dissonance for me.

I started out sitting in the second tier center, and I have to retract
at least part of my recent snarky comments about Norman Lebrecht: he was
right, as the acoustics of Verizon Hall are now, there seemed to be no
fortissimo, at least where I was sitting originally. I moved down to an
open seat in the conductor's circle for the Bruckner. It was a very
good performance--a straightforward reading, superbly played. The only
time I felt that the interpretation had an "individualized" quality was
in the Trio of the third movement, which the orchestra eased into with
an appealing lushness.

It was interesting to get a player's view of Eschenbach while he
conducted. He conducted without a score (does he ever not?). His face
generally remains expressionless, which after a while I found unusual.
I can't say I felt his control extending very far into the orchestra,
except for that moment at the beginning of the Trio. But I should
repeat that it was a very fine performance overall.

Paul

[Sol L. Siegel]

Post by Paul Kintzele

Post by Andrew Conkling
The Philadelphia Orchestra this weekend has put on a
performance of Bruckner's 7th.

What did you think of the performance? I was there last night.

Interesting. Eschenbach seemed to play the disparate elements of the first
movement as a kind of struggle between
heaven and earth, with heaven barely winning. The slow
movement was really built up; the Wagner elegy was played to the hilt (so
that's why the tuba was moved over next to the
Wagner tubas!) as if that were the true climax of the movement,
and perhaps it was. The scherzo and finale, though very fine,
were more briskly paced and conventional, almost as if they
were from a different performance.

Post by Paul Kintzele
Was the addition of the Fidelio overture announced anywhere,
to anyone? Hearing Beethoven when I expected Messiaen
caused a moment of extreme cognitive dissonance for me.

I only knew about it from the Inquirer review of the Thursday
performance, which appeared on Saturday. Odd that there
wasn't an insert in the program.

-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"I really liked it. Even the music was good." - Yogi Berra, after seeing
"Tosca"
--------------------
(Remove "exitspam" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)

[taodave]

Post by Paul Kintzele

Post by Andrew Conkling
The Philadelphia Orchestra this weekend has put on a performance of
Bruckner's 7th.

What did you think of the performance? I was there last night. Was the
addition of the Fidelio overture announced anywhere, to anyone? Hearing
Beethoven when I expected Messiaen caused a moment of extreme
cognitive dissonance for me.
I started out sitting in the second tier center, and I have to retract
at least part of my recent snarky comments about Norman Lebrecht: he was
right, as the acoustics of Verizon Hall are now, there seemed to be no
fortissimo, at least where I was sitting originally. I moved down to an
open seat in the conductor's circle for the Bruckner. It was a very
good performance--a straightforward reading, superbly played. The only
time I felt that the interpretation had an "individualized" quality was
in the Trio of the third movement, which the orchestra eased into with
an appealing lushness.
It was interesting to get a player's view of Eschenbach while he
conducted. He conducted without a score (does he ever not?). His face
generally remains expressionless, which after a while I found unusual.
I can't say I felt his control extending very far into the orchestra,
except for that moment at the beginning of the Trio. But I should
repeat that it was a very fine performance overall.
Paul

I attended a musical Elderhostel in Philly last week (ideally based at
the Warwick Hotel on 17th and Locust so that, schedule permitting, we
could cross the street to the Curtis for the daily 5:15 and 8:00 student
recitals) and was present at the Thursday evening Philadelphia Orchestra
performance. The pre-concert lecturer did mention that the Fidelio
Overture would open the concert, but I don't recall his informing us
that the Bruckner excerpts he used were from Tintner's recording. (In
his defense, he admitted to being a bit discombobulated because his
father had undergone emergency bypass surgery earlier in the day).

I sat on an aisle seat in the rear of the orchestral level near entrance
B just under the balcony overhang. No fortissimi! The general orchestral
balance was good, however, and the bess response was better than I had
expected after reading Lebrecht. I enjoyed the performance, but could
not help but think that I would have enjoyed it even more in the Academy
of Music...

David Lobdell
Simple Country pathologist

[Barry Zukerman]

Post by taodave
I sat on an aisle seat in the rear of the orchestral level near entrance
B just under the balcony overhang. No fortissimi! The general orchestral
balance was good, however, and the bess response was better than I had
expected after reading Lebrecht. I enjoyed the performance, but could
not help but think that I would have enjoyed it even more in the Academy
of Music...
David Lobdell
Simple Country pathologist

I had mentioned on the Eschenbach's Mahler thread last week that I was
thrilled to finally get the kind of full impact I like with big
climaxes during the Mahler first and Prokofiev fifth in recent weeks.
It was the first time I'd heard them sound so loud in Verizon Hall. I
sat on the floor, in the center, about 20-25 rows from the stage for
both of those concerts. For the Bruckner, I saw in the last (furthest
from the stage) second tier box on the right side, and the climaxes
were again lacking in boom. I had these tickets in advance. From now
on, I'm getting rush tickets and requesting a seat on the floor, far
back from the stage (but not under the overhang). It's the best sound
I've heard in the hall so far.
I was expecting the Messaien to open the concert and was really jolted
back in my seat when the burst into the Fidelio Overture. Aside from a
couple minor execution glitches that I picked up, it was a really
rocking performance of that overture.
The Bruckner was fine, but didn't make as strong of an impact on me as
the Mahler or Prokofiev did during the previous two concerts I had
attended. That may have been due partly to the sound problems and may
have just been because the seventh has never clicked for me to the
extent that 4-6 and 8-9 have.
Barry

[Andrew Conkling]

Post by taodave

Post by Paul Kintzele
What did you think of the performance? I was there last night. Was the
addition of the Fidelio overture announced anywhere, to anyone? Hearing
Beethoven when I expected Messiaen caused a moment of extreme
cognitive dissonance for me.

I liked the performance (maybe a bit better than Sawallisch's
Bruckner, but those are the extent of my hearings... and I'm
less-than-good at hearing these sorts of things).

Post by taodave
The pre-concert lecturer did mention that the Fidelio
Overture would open the concert, but I don't recall his informing us
that the Bruckner excerpts he used were from Tintner's recording. (In
his defense, he admitted to being a bit discombobulated because his
father had undergone emergency bypass surgery earlier in the day).

I only heard it because I asked for recommendations; of course, I
doubted him and came here, only to hear much of the same. :)

Post by taodave
I sat on an aisle seat in the rear of the orchestral level near entrance
B just under the balcony overhang. No fortissimi! The general orchestral
balance was good, however, and the bess response was better than I had
expected after reading Lebrecht.

In terms of sound, I've had the best experiences on the third tier (in
the nosebleeds); I really enjoy the experience of sitting along the
sides on the first and second tiers, but the balance is up... and the
walls bring it around both sides. It's nice. (Again, I'm not great
at hearing these things, so don't take my word for it. See you at the
top. :)

[David M. Cook]

Post by Andrew Conkling
Anyway, I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th, so I was

Jochum/Dresden/EMI on a double CD with 3 or in a box set of 1-9.
Skrowaczewski singly or in a box set of all the symphonies (Arte Nova or
Oehms Classics).

Dave Cook

[The Sanity Inspector]

Post by Andrew Conkling
Anyway, I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th, so I was

I enjoy the Haitink/Concertbegouw cd I own. I'm probably imprinted
with it, since I haven't heard any other versions, though.

--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
-- The Jam

[Jon E. Szostak, Sr.]

Andrew: Don't think twice...the Walter/Columbia is a collector's must
have...besides being my fav performance of the work.

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

Post by Andrew Conkling
The Philadelphia Orchestra this weekend has put on a performance of
Bruckner's 7th. This being my second go at hearing one of his (the
first was in the winter, when they performed his 5th), I was a bit
more able to appreciate his musical language, so to speak. (Before I
had heard either, all I knew about Bruckner was that he was a
contemporary of Brahms, so I expected something similar. :)
Anyway, soon after the last performance, I heard Ormandy's recording
of the 5th with Philadelphia and really liked it. I'm not always a
fan of Ormandy, but have enjoyed some of his recordings: Brahms's
Hungarian Dances, Mendelssohn's 4th, Midsummer Night's Dream,
Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. I definitely don't really like his
Mozart (I prefer the tighter sound of, say, Szell. :) (I
realise--now--that most of the recordings I list here are the only
ones I have of the pieces, so maybe that's why I still like them. :)
Anyway, I'd really like to get a (good) recording of the 7th, so I was
looking around online to see what's out there: Columbia/Walter,
Wiener/Szell, City of Birmingham/Rattle, there's an Ormandy of course,
but not on CD, and I refuse to listen to Karajan. I also heard from
the lecturer at the concert hall last night that the recording with
the Royal Scottish NO/George Tintner is really good. He played a few
excerpts and I couldn't disagree, but I'm wary of buying recordings of
no-namers.
Can anyone recommend a recording? FWIW, I normally like a good
orchestral colour like George Szell's demand of Cleveland, where the
intonation is good. That's important.
Thanks, and I look forward to y'all's strong opinions,
Andrew

[A. Brain]

Post by Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Andrew: Don't think twice...the Walter/Columbia is a collector's must
have...besides being my fav performance of the work.
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

The Walter is also my favorite, FWIW. But sometimes
I think my favorite is whichever one I am listening to.

Eschenbach is supposed to have recorded the 7th
while in Houston. Maybe Koch will release it; it
was a fine concert, though not up on the level with
his Mahler 6, which I hope is out there somewhere.