Company cars experts

[entwisi]

Wifes been offered a job which comes with Co car. Can anyone give us a
clue as to how it will affect her tax? She has to pay for fuel then claim
business mileage but insurance etc is included. She s not going to be
doing much mileage, well under 10K pa. Wage wise its more than shes on but
certainly no CEO salary. i.e. under £20K

Any help gratefully recieved as neither of us has ever had a company
vehicle before

[Champ]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:27:39 +0000, entwisi

Post by entwisi
Wifes been offered a job which comes with Co car. Can anyone give us a
clue as to how it will affect her tax? She has to pay for fuel then claim
business mileage but insurance etc is included. She s not going to be
doing much mileage, well under 10K pa. Wage wise its more than shes on but
certainly no CEO salary. i.e. under £20K
Any help gratefully recieved as neither of us has ever had a company
vehicle before

OK, so company cars are now taxed on CO2 emissions and value, not
mileage. There's usually a number of ready reckoners on the web.
hang on a mo <fx: googles> here you go:

http://www.comcar.co.uk/newcar/companycar/taxcalc/g1select.cfm

[Alison Hopkins]

Post by entwisi
Wifes been offered a job which comes with Co car. Can anyone give us a
clue as to how it will affect her tax? She has to pay for fuel then claim
business mileage but insurance etc is included. She s not going to be
doing much mileage, well under 10K pa. Wage wise its more than shes on but
certainly no CEO salary. i.e. under £20K
Any help gratefully recieved as neither of us has ever had a company
vehicle before

I've had both company cars and car allowances. These days, you are far
better off with a car allowance, imo. The tax will depend on the vehicle and
its list price, plus emissions. Do you know what she's getting? And do you
know what mileage rate they are paying?

This is useful as a quick calculation:

http://cccfcalculator.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/CCF0.aspx

Ali

[SteveH]

Post by entwisi
Wifes been offered a job which comes with Co car. Can anyone give us a
clue as to how it will affect her tax? She has to pay for fuel then claim
business mileage but insurance etc is included. She s not going to be
doing much mileage, well under 10K pa. Wage wise its more than shes on but
certainly no CEO salary. i.e. under £20K
Any help gratefully recieved as neither of us has ever had a company
vehicle before

For that kind of mileage, I'd be asking for a cash allowance in lieu of
the car.

Reckon on the tax being around £50 / month for an average mid-sized
diesel hatch / saloon as a basic rate tax payer.

[entwisi]

Post by SteveH
For that kind of mileage, I'd be asking for a cash allowance in lieu of
the car.
Reckon on the tax being around £50 / month for an average mid-sized
diesel hatch / saloon as a basic rate tax payer.

That doesn't seem a lot considering she won't be paying
insurance/tax/MOTs/ running costs etc[1]?

Its likely to be an Astra/Vectra

She has asked if it would be possible to use her own car and claim
mileage. She also drives an automatic (and has for some time ) and is
loathe to go back to manual. They are looking into whether there are any
autos in teh 'pool' of cars available.


[1] she has a 2.5 Grand Vitara so insurance is ~£500 a year before we
start on tax/tyres/servicing etc.

Cheers to teh guys who put links to teh calculators, it did seem to be
~£50 a month. I don't think there is a cash alternative on offer, its a
case of you can have one if you want.

[SteveH]

Post by entwisi

Post by SteveH
For that kind of mileage, I'd be asking for a cash allowance in lieu of
the car.
Reckon on the tax being around £50 / month for an average mid-sized
diesel hatch / saloon as a basic rate tax payer.

That doesn't seem a lot considering she won't be paying
insurance/tax/MOTs/ running costs etc[1]?
Its likely to be an Astra/Vectra
She has asked if it would be possible to use her own car and claim
mileage. She also drives an automatic (and has for some time ) and is
loathe to go back to manual. They are looking into whether there are any
autos in teh 'pool' of cars available.
[1] she has a 2.5 Grand Vitara so insurance is ~£500 a year before we
start on tax/tyres/servicing etc.
Cheers to teh guys who put links to teh calculators, it did seem to be
~£50 a month. I don't think there is a cash alternative on offer, its a
case of you can have one if you want.

Thing is that, if you can 'opt out' of the company scheme, and only do
what can be considered 'average' mileage, then it's quite easy to end up
with the company effectively paying her to own a car.

However, if there is no cash alternative, then taking the car isn't a
bad option, *if* it's the kind of car she's happy to drive - if it's a
base model Astra diesel or a Golf SDI then I'd think twice about paying
for the 'perk'.

[Alison Hopkins]

Post by SteveH
Thing is that, if you can 'opt out' of the company scheme, and only do
what can be considered 'average' mileage, then it's quite easy to end up
with the company effectively paying her to own a car.

Yup. My lot pay around 450 a month car allowance - taxable, of course, so
the net depends on your marginal rate. BUT, you can then claim mileage
against tax - 40 pence a mile for the first 10K, 25 pence a mile thereafter.
If your company pays you a mileage allowance for business miles, you deduct
that. It can be quite lucrative.

Ali

[SteveH]

Post by Alison Hopkins

Post by SteveH
Thing is that, if you can 'opt out' of the company scheme, and only do
what can be considered 'average' mileage, then it's quite easy to end up
with the company effectively paying her to own a car.

Yup. My lot pay around 450 a month car allowance - taxable, of course, so
the net depends on your marginal rate. BUT, you can then claim mileage
against tax - 40 pence a mile for the first 10K, 25 pence a mile thereafter.
If your company pays you a mileage allowance for business miles, you deduct
that. It can be quite lucrative.

I've agonised over this one for ages and decided that, in my job, I'd
prefer to have the security of someone else picking up the tab for the
car and just stumping up the tax on it.

It's very different when you're doing 30-40k miles / year.

[Alison Hopkins]

Post by SteveH

Post by Alison Hopkins

Post by SteveH
Thing is that, if you can 'opt out' of the company scheme, and only do
what can be considered 'average' mileage, then it's quite easy to end up
with the company effectively paying her to own a car.

Yup. My lot pay around 450 a month car allowance - taxable, of course, so
the net depends on your marginal rate. BUT, you can then claim mileage
against tax - 40 pence a mile for the first 10K, 25 pence a mile thereafter.
If your company pays you a mileage allowance for business miles, you deduct
that. It can be quite lucrative.

I've agonised over this one for ages and decided that, in my job, I'd
prefer to have the security of someone else picking up the tab for the
car and just stumping up the tax on it.
It's very different when you're doing 30-40k miles / year.

Um, I was doing *over* 40K miles a year up until a year ago - and as a sales
manager, my car was totally essential to the job. I just made sure I bought
something decently reliable, with a proper warranty - and from a dealer that
gave me a courtesy car as a matter of course. It's a very substantial
financial difference if you do that kind of mileage. My tax rebates were
running nicely into four figures, and that's over and above the car
allowance. And the fact that I always made a profit on the mileage. (No,
didn't fiddle the numbers.)

Ali

Ali

[SteveH]

Post by Alison Hopkins

Post by SteveH
I've agonised over this one for ages and decided that, in my job, I'd
prefer to have the security of someone else picking up the tab for the
car and just stumping up the tax on it.
It's very different when you're doing 30-40k miles / year.

Um, I was doing *over* 40K miles a year up until a year ago - and as a sales
manager, my car was totally essential to the job. I just made sure I bought
something decently reliable, with a proper warranty - and from a dealer that
gave me a courtesy car as a matter of course. It's a very substantial
financial difference if you do that kind of mileage. My tax rebates were
running nicely into four figures, and that's over and above the car
allowance. And the fact that I always made a profit on the mileage. (No,
didn't fiddle the numbers.)

I think the balance is tipped if you're a higher rate tax payer, though.

For me, I'm happy to take the tax hit to avoid all the hassles of buying
and running my own car.

[Alison Hopkins]

Post by SteveH

Post by Alison Hopkins

Post by SteveH
I've agonised over this one for ages and decided that, in my job, I'd
prefer to have the security of someone else picking up the tab for the
car and just stumping up the tax on it.
It's very different when you're doing 30-40k miles / year.

Um, I was doing *over* 40K miles a year up until a year ago - and as a sales
manager, my car was totally essential to the job. I just made sure I bought
something decently reliable, with a proper warranty - and from a dealer that
gave me a courtesy car as a matter of course. It's a very substantial
financial difference if you do that kind of mileage. My tax rebates were
running nicely into four figures, and that's over and above the car
allowance. And the fact that I always made a profit on the mileage. (No,
didn't fiddle the numbers.)

I think the balance is tipped if you're a higher rate tax payer, though.
For me, I'm happy to take the tax hit to avoid all the hassles of buying
and running my own car.

Yes, my marginal rate is 40 percent. I've not honestly found it a hassle to
buy and run my own - I was concerned about it the first time I did, so went
for a personal lease. Damn rip off, that is. The second time, I bought new.

Ali

[SteveH]

Post by Alison Hopkins

Post by SteveH
I think the balance is tipped if you're a higher rate tax payer, though.
For me, I'm happy to take the tax hit to avoid all the hassles of buying
and running my own car.

Yes, my marginal rate is 40 percent. I've not honestly found it a hassle to
buy and run my own - I was concerned about it the first time I did, so went
for a personal lease. Damn rip off, that is. The second time, I bought new.

It's an interesting one. Just doing some very quick maths suggests that
I'd need to find not far off 600 quid / month to buy my car. Obviously,
with the next one it wouldn't be so bad, because of the equity I'd have
in the one I'd bought.

However, I can't see many people rushing to give me a £19k unsecured
loan.

Opt-out rules mean that the oldest car I could even consider buying
would be a year old - and buying used can mean lots of warranty issues
if you need to claim.

I may have another look when my current car is due to be replaced,
though.

[ginge]

Post by SteveH
However, I can't see many people rushing to give me a £19k unsecured
loan.

Buy an octavia instead.

[SteveH]

Post by ginge

Post by SteveH
However, I can't see many people rushing to give me a £19k unsecured
loan.

Buy an octavia instead.

It has crossed my mind, but I'm likely to stick with the company car -
I'm hoping to be able to get my hands on a Jetta 2.0TDI Sport DSG next
time - they're listed at roughly the same price as my current Passat.

[The Older Gentleman]

Post by ginge

Post by SteveH
However, I can't see many people rushing to give me a £19k unsecured
loan.

Buy an octavia instead.

I looked hard at one before buying the Silver Tuddy. And a Superb,
believe it or not.

[Gyp]

Post by SteveH
However, if there is no cash alternative, then taking the car isn't a
bad option, *if* it's the kind of car she's happy to drive - if it's a
base model Astra diesel or a Golf SDI then I'd think twice about paying
for the 'perk'.

That said, I had a Golf SDi loan car for a week or so when the Gypmobile
was getting unbent and it was great. OK, not a performance car, but very
tractable around town, enough go for motorway speeds and decent handling
so you could have fun on country lanes if you drive it like a stolen
moped.

I often find I have more fun in that sort of car as you car drive it in
a relaxed manner if you like and make decent progress if you pay
attention. Which is why I enjoy T's 954cc Saxo. Fast cars make you lazy.

[SteveH]

Post by Gyp

Post by SteveH
However, if there is no cash alternative, then taking the car isn't a
bad option, *if* it's the kind of car she's happy to drive - if it's a
base model Astra diesel or a Golf SDI then I'd think twice about paying
for the 'perk'.

That said, I had a Golf SDi loan car for a week or so when the Gypmobile
was getting unbent and it was great. OK, not a performance car, but very
tractable around town, enough go for motorway speeds and decent handling
so you could have fun on country lanes if you drive it like a stolen
moped.

Even the base model TDI is hugely better.

Newport VW gave me a bloody Polo 1.2 last week.... I won't be going back
there - not when Merthyr VW give you a Golf TDI.

[Lozzo]

SteveH says...

Post by SteveH

Post by Gyp

Post by SteveH
However, if there is no cash alternative, then taking the car isn't a
bad option, *if* it's the kind of car she's happy to drive - if it's a
base model Astra diesel or a Golf SDI then I'd think twice about paying
for the 'perk'.

That said, I had a Golf SDi loan car for a week or so when the Gypmobile
was getting unbent and it was great. OK, not a performance car, but very
tractable around town, enough go for motorway speeds and decent handling
so you could have fun on country lanes if you drive it like a stolen
moped.

Even the base model TDI is hugely better.
Newport VW gave me a bloody Polo 1.2 last week.... I won't be going back
there - not when Merthyr VW give you a Golf TDI.

So you judge a dealer on the spec of their loan cars, not the quality of
service you get?

That figures.

[SteveH]

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
Even the base model TDI is hugely better.
Newport VW gave me a bloody Polo 1.2 last week.... I won't be going back
there - not when Merthyr VW give you a Golf TDI.

So you judge a dealer on the spec of their loan cars, not the quality of
service you get?

They're a VW dealer, hence they all deliver the same shite level of
service.

If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd prefer
it to be something useable.

[Lozzo]

SteveH says...

Post by SteveH

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
Even the base model TDI is hugely better.
Newport VW gave me a bloody Polo 1.2 last week.... I won't be going back
there - not when Merthyr VW give you a Golf TDI.

So you judge a dealer on the spec of their loan cars, not the quality of
service you get?

They're a VW dealer, hence they all deliver the same shite level of
service.

Wrong wrong wrong, in the same way that different Yamaha dealers deliver
varying levels of service. For someone supposedly clued up about cars
you don't know very much about this sort of thing, do you?

Post by SteveH
If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd prefer
it to be something useable.

So the badge is more important than the service.

[SteveH]

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
They're a VW dealer, hence they all deliver the same shite level of
service.

Wrong wrong wrong, in the same way that different Yamaha dealers deliver
varying levels of service. For someone supposedly clued up about cars
you don't know very much about this sort of thing, do you?

2 VW dealers tried, both have done a shit job that's not been finished
on time and needed me to go back to have other stuff fixed.

My local back-street bloke is better.

To top it all, Newport broke the passenger door handle and didn't tell
me, so it now needs to go back to them again.

That's not to mention the 2-4 weeks notice they need to give you a
courtesy car. At both dealers.

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd prefer
it to be something useable.

So the badge is more important than the service.

No, but having more than about 60bhp is actually quite important around
these parts.

To be honest, I don't give a fuck about the service as such - so long as
the car goes in on time, gets the service indicator reset and comes back
to me on time.

[Christofire]

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd
prefer it to be something useable.

So the badge is more important than the service.

Not wishing to rain on your SteveH parade, but how do you get that from
that sentence? Even taking his earlier posts into consideration, the
"badge" was the same (VW polo, VW golf) but the car was larger, with
more go and to him was more useful. I don't get what you're striving at.

[Lozzo]

Christofire says...

Post by Christofire

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd
prefer it to be something useable.

So the badge is more important than the service.

Not wishing to rain on your SteveH parade, but how do you get that from
that sentence? Even taking his earlier posts into consideration, the
"badge" was the same (VW polo, VW golf) but the car was larger, with
more go and to him was more useful. I don't get what you're striving at.

It's a one day courtesy car.

When my Golf was in the bodyshop I was loaned a Corsa 1.2 Twinport. I
drove it to Penith and back in a day and tbh I was just grateful that I
wasn't stuck on a train or coach. I've had Lupo courtesy cars, Polos,
Golf Plus Tdi and others, it's just a fucking car at the end of the day.

If Steve takes his "all VW dealers are shite" attitude into the sevice
desk it's hardly surprising that they dump him in an inferior car. Maybe
if Steve planned his week a bit better he'd have been a bit closer to
home and not in need of a big car with lots of go when his own was being
serviced. I personally couldn't give a fuck what courtesy car I drive,
I'm not that much up my own arse about it.

[SteveH]

Post by Lozzo
Christofire says...

Post by Christofire

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd
prefer it to be something useable.

So the badge is more important than the service.

Not wishing to rain on your SteveH parade, but how do you get that from
that sentence? Even taking his earlier posts into consideration, the
"badge" was the same (VW polo, VW golf) but the car was larger, with
more go and to him was more useful. I don't get what you're striving at.

It's a one day courtesy car.
When my Golf was in the bodyshop I was loaned a Corsa 1.2 Twinport. I
drove it to Penith and back in a day and tbh I was just grateful that I
wasn't stuck on a train or coach. I've had Lupo courtesy cars, Polos,
Golf Plus Tdi and others, it's just a fucking car at the end of the day.
If Steve takes his "all VW dealers are shite" attitude into the sevice
desk it's hardly surprising that they dump him in an inferior car.

They only had Polos. I don't take any attitude to the desk - the car is
booked by Leaseplan and already set before I get there anyway.

My experience tells me they're all shit - booked a warranty repair on a
known issue, took car in, only to get it back, not fixed, because they
wanted to see the car before ordering parts which were also on
back-order, meaning a 2nd visit was required. Then their courtesy car
broke down on my way home.

So, I try another dealer, who not only gives me a totally unsuitable
car, but also doesn't call me when they've finished the job, finish the
job later than promised and broke the door handle on the front passenger
side. Oh, and they 'forgot' to reset the service indicator, so I had to
take it back to them, too.


I may try the other local-ish dealer, but 2 shit jobs from 2 dealers
doesn't fill me with optimism.

Post by Lozzo
Maybe
if Steve planned his week a bit better he'd have been a bit closer to
home and not in need of a big car with lots of go when his own was being
serviced. I personally couldn't give a fuck what courtesy car I drive,
I'm not that much up my own arse about it.

You know fuck all about my job - my diary isn't set in stone by myself.
It's a retail ops. role, meaning plans can change from morning to
afternoon. Being stuck in a gutless 1.2 Polo when you've had a call
about issues in a store over the top of the mountains is hardly ideal.

Mind you, you were used to a Golf SDI, so almost anything would have
similar glacial performance to that. If my lot tried to fob me off with
such a shite car for work, they'd be looking for my replacement.

[Lozzo]

SteveH says...

Post by SteveH
Mind you, you were used to a Golf SDI, so almost anything would have
similar glacial performance to that. If my lot tried to fob me off with
such a shite car for work, they'd be looking for my replacement.

"It's all about the badge"

[SteveH]

Post by Lozzo
SteveH says...

Post by SteveH
Mind you, you were used to a Golf SDI, so almost anything would have
similar glacial performance to that. If my lot tried to fob me off with
such a shite car for work, they'd be looking for my replacement.

"It's all about the badge"

How about 'it's all about being given the apropriate tools to do the
job'.

It's also about the company valuing their management team and not
expecting them to go about their business in a pikey spec. car to save a
few quid a month.

[Lozzo]

SteveH says...

Post by SteveH

Post by Lozzo
SteveH says...

Post by SteveH
Mind you, you were used to a Golf SDI, so almost anything would have
similar glacial performance to that. If my lot tried to fob me off with
such a shite car for work, they'd be looking for my replacement.

"It's all about the badge"

How about 'it's all about being given the apropriate tools to do the
job'.

It's a car that gets you from A to B.

Post by SteveH
It's also about the company valuing their management team and not
expecting them to go about their business in a pikey spec. car to save a
few quid a month.

Oh do fuck off and take some trolling lessons, you nob.

[vulgarandmischevious]

Post by SteveH
It's also about the company valuing their management team and not
expecting them to go about their business in a pikey spec. car to save a
few quid a month.

Come back when you've run a business.

[SteveH]

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
It's also about the company valuing their management team and not
expecting them to go about their business in a pikey spec. car to save a
few quid a month.

Come back when you've run a business.

I fail to see your point here.

The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some base spec.
slug, then the job instantly becomes less attractive meaning it's harder
to recruit and retain the correct calibre of people to the role.

[Mark Olson]

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
It's also about the company valuing their management team and not
expecting them to go about their business in a pikey spec. car to save a
few quid a month.

Come back when you've run a business.

I fail to see your point here.
The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some base spec.
slug, then the job instantly becomes less attractive meaning it's harder
to recruit and retain the correct calibre of people to the role.

But apparently their pikey spec (double entendre intended) car was
sufficient to attract and retain you, or should we expect to read
a post about your pending resignation?

Lozzo's right- it's just a car, a means to an end, not some sort of
ego-sop. Drive the thing and get your job done, and stop whinging
about whether you've been given a car appropriate to your "calibre"
FFS.

[SteveH]

Post by Mark Olson

Post by SteveH
The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some base spec.
slug, then the job instantly becomes less attractive meaning it's harder
to recruit and retain the correct calibre of people to the role.

But apparently their pikey spec (double entendre intended) car was
sufficient to attract and retain you, or should we expect to read
a post about your pending resignation?

I don't have a pikey spec car.

Post by Mark Olson
Lozzo's right- it's just a car, a means to an end, not some sort of
ego-sop. Drive the thing and get your job done, and stop whinging
about whether you've been given a car appropriate to your "calibre"
FFS.

I don't have a pikey spec. car - I wouldn't be doing this job if that
was all they'd give me.

My complaint was about the courtesy car.

[The Older Gentleman]

Post by SteveH
My complaint was about the courtesy car.

On the occaisons when I've had a oourtesy vehicle, I've never GAF about
it.

<Thinks>

Local dealer used to run a Cagiva River as the available shop hack. They
called it the "discourtesy bike".

[SteveH]

Post by The Older Gentleman

Post by SteveH
My complaint was about the courtesy car.

On the occaisons when I've had a oourtesy vehicle, I've never GAF about
it.

I wouldn't, if I didn't need to do 150 plus miles in it.

Post by The Older Gentleman
<Thinks>
Local dealer used to run a Cagiva River as the available shop hack. They
called it the "discourtesy bike".

Heh.

That's what the L&M International Panda 4x4 and Lancia Y10 ie were
called.

[Timo Geusch]

Post by Mark Olson
Drive the thing and get your job done, and stop whinging
about whether you've been given a car appropriate to your "calibre"

Yebbut, who wants a car that makes you look like you're only .22?

[The Older Gentleman]

Post by Timo Geusch

Post by Mark Olson
Drive the thing and get your job done, and stop whinging
about whether you've been given a car appropriate to your "calibre"

Yebbut, who wants a car that makes you look like you're only .22?

<G>

[Dan L]

Post by Mark Olson

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
It's also about the company valuing their management team and
not expecting them to go about their business in a pikey spec.
car to save a few quid a month.

Come back when you've run a business.

I fail to see your point here.
The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some base
spec. slug, then the job instantly becomes less attractive meaning
it's harder to recruit and retain the correct calibre of people to
the role.

But apparently their pikey spec (double entendre intended) car was
sufficient to attract and retain you, or should we expect to read
a post about your pending resignation?
Lozzo's right- it's just a car, a means to an end, not some sort of
ego-sop. Drive the thing and get your job done, and stop whinging
about whether you've been given a car appropriate to your "calibre"
FFS.

I have to agree.
I've had some very nice company cars in my time (incl fully loaded
Volvo V70, Jag S Type, Passat Highline).

In my current job the car package becomes negotiable some time over the
next few months. Up until then I'll continue to use the
shiteoldHyundai we got for basically nothing for my daughter (who had
her first driving lesson this week).

I have to admit that it is a very crude device, has precious little
poke, handles like a pig on qualudes and has provoked howls of derision
from people who generally associate me with having a decent car.

I also have to admit that I have grown quite fond of it, and really
could not give a flying fuck about cars, status and all the bollocks
that go with climbing the slippery pole, so I will prolly take the car
allowance and keep the Hyundai (it rocks. It also rattles rolls,
whines and has no aircon, but wgaf). Shite old cars rock mightily, I
would rather invest my hard earned into buying toys for the bike.
--
Dan L
***@gmail.com
http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

[Ben]

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
It's also about the company valuing their management team and not
expecting them to go about their business in a pikey spec. car to save a
few quid a month.

Come back when you've run a business.

I fail to see your point here.
The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some base spec.
slug, then the job instantly becomes less attractive meaning it's harder
to recruit and retain the correct calibre of people to the role.

heheh. I work for an incredibly successful company and nobody has
company cars or car allowances. Not even the directors/owners, and we
have no trouble recruiting some of the best people in Europe for our
jobs.

And everyone in the company drives a hell of a lot.

[SteveH]

Post by Ben

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious
Come back when you've run a business.

I fail to see your point here.
The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some base spec.
slug, then the job instantly becomes less attractive meaning it's harder
to recruit and retain the correct calibre of people to the role.

heheh. I work for an incredibly successful company and nobody has
company cars or car allowances. Not even the directors/owners, and we
have no trouble recruiting some of the best people in Europe for our
jobs.
And everyone in the company drives a hell of a lot.

A car is an accepted part of the package in retail area management roles
- mainly because you can't do the job without one.

[Lozzo]

SteveH says...

Post by SteveH

Post by Ben

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious
Come back when you've run a business.

I fail to see your point here.
The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some base spec.
slug, then the job instantly becomes less attractive meaning it's harder
to recruit and retain the correct calibre of people to the role.

heheh. I work for an incredibly successful company and nobody has
company cars or car allowances. Not even the directors/owners, and we
have no trouble recruiting some of the best people in Europe for our
jobs.
And everyone in the company drives a hell of a lot.

A car is an accepted part of the package in retail area management roles
- mainly because you can't do the job without one.

'A car'

A car can be a 1.2 Polo, or a 4.2 V8 Jaguar. Both will get you from A to
B. What's the big fucking deal about the level of trim or the size of
the car? It's not like you have to carry a shitload of tools or ladders
on the roof in your job.

[SteveH]

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
A car is an accepted part of the package in retail area management roles
- mainly because you can't do the job without one.

'A car'
A car can be a 1.2 Polo, or a 4.2 V8 Jaguar. Both will get you from A to
B. What's the big fucking deal about the level of trim or the size of
the car? It's not like you have to carry a shitload of tools or ladders
on the roof in your job.

My boot is full of all sorts of bits and pieces - I keep a 'float' of
spare store equipment to save the hassle and delay of ordering stuff
from Germany.

I also take more senior managers / directors from both my company and
the partner companies out in my car - it wouldn't look very good if I
picked up a director in a Polo.

[Lozzo]

SteveH says...

Post by SteveH

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
A car is an accepted part of the package in retail area management roles
- mainly because you can't do the job without one.

'A car'
A car can be a 1.2 Polo, or a 4.2 V8 Jaguar. Both will get you from A to
B. What's the big fucking deal about the level of trim or the size of
the car? It's not like you have to carry a shitload of tools or ladders
on the roof in your job.

My boot is full of all sorts of bits and pieces - I keep a 'float' of
spare store equipment to save the hassle and delay of ordering stuff
from Germany.
I also take more senior managers / directors from both my company and
the partner companies out in my car - it wouldn't look very good if I
picked up a director in a Polo.

The directors of my old firm were quite happy to be driven around by us
in base model Golfs. But then again, my old bosses wouldn't have
employed someone who thought his company car's badge was important to
the job he was doing.

[SteveH]

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
I also take more senior managers / directors from both my company and
the partner companies out in my car - it wouldn't look very good if I
picked up a director in a Polo.

The directors of my old firm were quite happy to be driven around by us
in base model Golfs. But then again, my old bosses wouldn't have
employed someone who thought his company car's badge was important to
the job he was doing.

And it looks *really* professional when you wedge a director of <instert
one of the big 4 supermarkets here> into some poverty spec hatch.

Anyway, it's not about the badge it's about the capability of the car to
do the job I want it to do. Which means something bigger and more
powerful than the cheapest diesel Golf.

[Gyp]

Post by SteveH
And it looks *really* professional when you wedge a director of <instert
one of the big 4 supermarkets here> into some poverty spec hatch.

I can see if you need to regularly carry a number of adult passengers
that you need (on those occasions at least) a larger car.

But are they really going to be arsed if you have a turbo or a fancy
gearbox or a changer in the boot?

[SteveH]

Post by Gyp

Post by SteveH
And it looks *really* professional when you wedge a director of <instert
one of the big 4 supermarkets here> into some poverty spec hatch.

I can see if you need to regularly carry a number of adult passengers
that you need (on those occasions at least) a larger car.
But are they really going to be arsed if you have a turbo or a fancy
gearbox or a changer in the boot?

No, and out of those I only have the turbo. Non-turbo diesels just don't
cut it when hauling around modern cars. I could have had the slightly
cheaper 1.9TDI, but the few quid a month extra it costs for an extra
35bhp is money well spent when you want to overtake someone doing 40mph
on a narrow single-carriageway road in mid Wales.

The point being that a poverty spec small hatch isn't really suitable
from either a load carrying point of view or an entertaining clients
point of view.

[Bear]

Post by Gyp

Post by SteveH
And it looks *really* professional when you wedge a director of <instert
one of the big 4 supermarkets here> into some poverty spec hatch.

I can see if you need to regularly carry a number of adult passengers
that you need (on those occasions at least) a larger car.
But are they really going to be arsed if you have a turbo or a fancy
gearbox or a changer in the boot?

He reminds me of those saddo reps who all used to get Cortinas, but used
to fight like cat and dog to get the next one up, like GL over L, GLS,
Ghia, etc.

It's sad, but fucking funny to read.

[SteveH]

Post by Bear

Post by Gyp
But are they really going to be arsed if you have a turbo or a fancy
gearbox or a changer in the boot?

He reminds me of those saddo reps who all used to get Cortinas, but used
to fight like cat and dog to get the next one up, like GL over L, GLS,
Ghia, etc.
It's sad, but fucking funny to read.

Says the man who's previously owned quite an impressive set of penis
extensions over recent years.

[Bear]

In article <1hrst8f.1h4jv9g1470f8mN%***@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH
says...

Post by SteveH

Post by Bear

Post by Gyp
But are they really going to be arsed if you have a turbo or a fancy
gearbox or a changer in the boot?

He reminds me of those saddo reps who all used to get Cortinas, but used
to fight like cat and dog to get the next one up, like GL over L, GLS,
Ghia, etc.
It's sad, but fucking funny to read.

Says the man who's previously owned quite an impressive set of penis
extensions over recent years.

*snort*

You really are one very sad case.

[SteveH]

Post by Bear

Post by SteveH
Says the man who's previously owned quite an impressive set of penis
extensions over recent years.

*snort*
You really are one very sad case.

They may have been slightly shonky old barges, but did you not own a Jag
and a 540 recently?

Surely a 1.6 Mondeo would have done the job just as well?

[Bear]

In article <1hrstqi.1m8n6ab1pgx75dN%***@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH
says...

Post by SteveH

Post by Bear

Post by SteveH
Says the man who's previously owned quite an impressive set of penis
extensions over recent years.

*snort*
You really are one very sad case.

They may have been slightly shonky old barges, but did you not own a Jag
and a 540 recently?
Surely a 1.6 Mondeo would have done the job just as well?

Not the point; what we're talking about here is how you use company
vehicles to measure your worth. None of mine were company vehicles.

It's ... well it's sad.

[SteveH]

Post by Bear

Post by SteveH

Post by Bear
You really are one very sad case.

They may have been slightly shonky old barges, but did you not own a Jag
and a 540 recently?
Surely a 1.6 Mondeo would have done the job just as well?

Not the point; what we're talking about here is how you use company
vehicles to measure your worth. None of mine were company vehicles.
It's ... well it's sad.

The way I see it is that it's a benefit in lieu of salary.

If I wanted to finance something similar I'd be looking at a good few
hundred quid a month.

Yes, there's a measure of worth involved - but it's a measure of how the
company values you - hence directors get A8s / Q7s, regional managers
get A6s. It's also party how you're perceived by the people you meet.
Golf SDI = sales rep / merchandiser, Passat = area manager, A6 =
regional manager. First impressions count for a lot - the car you pick
someone up in is all part of the first impression they have of you
before they get to know you.

[Lozzo]

SteveH says...

Post by SteveH
Yes, there's a measure of worth involved - but it's a measure of how the
company values you - hence directors get A8s / Q7s, regional managers
get A6s.

My old colleagues picked up new Passats this week. They all wanted
Jettas but the boss bought them something bigger and better. They'd
still rather have had Jettas though, not for any reason other than the
boot on a Jetta is marginally bigger than the Passat.

[Dan L]

Post by Lozzo
SteveH says...

Post by SteveH
Yes, there's a measure of worth involved - but it's a measure of
how the company values you - hence directors get A8s / Q7s,
regional managers get A6s.

My old colleagues picked up new Passats this week. They all wanted
Jettas but the boss bought them something bigger and better. They'd
still rather have had Jettas though, not for any reason other than
the boot on a Jetta is marginally bigger than the Passat.

When I was a rep I always went for the smaller model, up-specced car.
When my colleagues had 1.6 Sierra LX's I had a 1.8 Renault 19 RTi in
pearl black.

I'm not really doing myself any favours here, am I
--
Dan L
***@gmail.com
http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

[SteveH]

Post by Lozzo
SteveH says...

Post by SteveH
Yes, there's a measure of worth involved - but it's a measure of how the
company values you - hence directors get A8s / Q7s, regional managers
get A6s.

My old colleagues picked up new Passats this week. They all wanted
Jettas but the boss bought them something bigger and better. They'd
still rather have had Jettas though, not for any reason other than the
boot on a Jetta is marginally bigger than the Passat.

No it's not. Perhaps it's a better shape or something, but it's around
40 litres smaller - that's without taking into account the split-fold
seats in the Passat.

[Work in progress]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:21:33 +0000, ***@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH)
wrote:

Car stuff

Post by SteveH
Yes, there's a measure of worth involved - but it's a measure of how the
company values you

I think it's really sad that value is linked to consumer commodities.

Post by SteveH
- hence directors get A8s / Q7s, regional managers
get A6s. It's also party how you're perceived by the people you meet.

I don't think I'd like to spend time with someone who based their
perceptions of me as a person on the consumer goods I owned/was given
by work to use.

Post by SteveH
Golf SDI = sales rep / merchandiser, Passat = area manager, A6 =
regional manager.

I'm sure there's a bit in a book or an old comedy show about workers
arguing about the extra letters on company cars. Anyone got a better
memory than me?

Post by SteveH
First impressions count for a lot - the car you pick
someone up in is all part of the first impression they have of you
before they get to know you.

I think that's a bit sad really. Hey ho, time for that quote again

"'it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick
society"

[Paul Corfield]

Post by SteveH
Yes, there's a measure of worth involved - but it's a measure of how the
company values you - hence directors get A8s / Q7s, regional managers
get A6s. It's also party how you're perceived by the people you meet.
Golf SDI = sales rep / merchandiser, Passat = area manager, A6 =
regional manager. First impressions count for a lot - the car you pick
someone up in is all part of the first impression they have of you
before they get to know you.

Fascinating way to value worth and if you really think people evaluate
you based on the car you collect them in then IMO you've got a lot to
learn or else you work with some of the shallowest people I could
imagine meeting.

Here in boring LU land all the directors from the MD down are expected
to use the same old non differentiated tube trains that our customers
use. I suspect (but don't know) the MD would be displeased if people
used any form of private transport to travel about on company business.
He certainly uses the tube to go everywhere. One of the first things TfL
did when they took us over was scrap all company cars.

[SteveH]

Post by Paul Corfield

Post by SteveH
Yes, there's a measure of worth involved - but it's a measure of how the
company values you - hence directors get A8s / Q7s, regional managers
get A6s. It's also party how you're perceived by the people you meet.
Golf SDI = sales rep / merchandiser, Passat = area manager, A6 =
regional manager. First impressions count for a lot - the car you pick
someone up in is all part of the first impression they have of you
before they get to know you.

Fascinating way to value worth and if you really think people evaluate
you based on the car you collect them in then IMO you've got a lot to
learn or else you work with some of the shallowest people I could
imagine meeting.

That's just how it is, though. It's considered to be part of your salary
package - hence the differing 'grades' of cars in the same way you get
differing salary gradings.

As for picking up people for store visits - it really is about the image
- you give an instant positive impression if your car meets or exceeds
the expectations of your role. The bloke who turns up to put out a
promotional ticket on the coke display drives a Golf or Focus, so a
regional director wouldn't expect an area manager to collect him in a
Golf - if you did, you'd have to battle against his first impression
that you're nothing more than a rep.

Post by Paul Corfield
Here in boring LU land all the directors from the MD down are expected
to use the same old non differentiated tube trains that our customers
use. I suspect (but don't know) the MD would be displeased if people
used any form of private transport to travel about on company business.
He certainly uses the tube to go everywhere. One of the first things TfL
did when they took us over was scrap all company cars.

I don't really think it shows much faith in the product if a LU employee
chose to travel by car rather than tube in and around London....

[p***@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk]

Again, I'm with Steve here. People really do form impressions based
on such things.

It has to be asked. What impression would people form if one turned up
in an Alfa?

[Lozzo]

says...

Post by p***@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk

Again, I'm with Steve here. People really do form impressions based
on such things.

It has to be asked. What impression would people form if one turned up
in an Alfa?

The Alfa wouldn't make it there.

[SteveH]

Post by p***@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk

Again, I'm with Steve here. People really do form impressions based
on such things.

It has to be asked. What impression would people form if one turned up
in an Alfa?

Heh.

'Fuck me, he's lucky he made it'

[p***@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk]

Post by SteveH

Post by p***@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk

Again, I'm with Steve here. People really do form impressions based
on such things.

It has to be asked. What impression would people form if one turned up
in an Alfa?

Heh.
'Fuck me, he's lucky he made it'

I turned up at a site meeting during a Public Planning Inquiry in the
75 V6 Cloverleaf once and clocked a distinct raising of the eyebrow
from the Planning Inspector. That must have been what he was thinking.
Oh our side won BTW.

[SteveH]

Post by p***@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk

Post by SteveH

Post by p***@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk
It has to be asked. What impression would people form if one turned up
in an Alfa?

Heh.
'Fuck me, he's lucky he made it'

I turned up at a site meeting during a Public Planning Inquiry in the
75 V6 Cloverleaf once and clocked a distinct raising of the eyebrow
from the Planning Inspector. That must have been what he was thinking.
Oh our side won BTW.

Nah, that was a jealous look with a hint of commendation on your
incredibly tasteful and stylish mode of transport.

[Dan L]

Post by SteveH

Post by p***@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk

Again, I'm with Steve here. People really do form impressions
based on such things.

It has to be asked. What impression would people form if one turned
up in an Alfa?

Heh.
'Fuck me, he's lucky he made it'

Hmm, I saw an Alfa GT 1.9 Tdi coupe today.
I have to admit I considered it as potentially suitable.

For a second or two
--
Dan L
***@gmail.com
http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

[SteveH]

Post by Dan L

Post by SteveH

Post by p***@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk

Again, I'm with Steve here. People really do form impressions
based on such things.

It has to be asked. What impression would people form if one turned
up in an Alfa?

Heh.
'Fuck me, he's lucky he made it'

Hmm, I saw an Alfa GT 1.9 Tdi coupe today.

JTD, you mean.

Post by Dan L
I have to admit I considered it as potentially suitable.
For a second or two

They're very suitable, actually - they're in demand, meaning they have
good residual values and hence aren't stupidly expensive to lease. The
engine has also been proven to be strong and reliable - so much so that
GM buy them in for their cars.

I'd have one. Obviously.

[Dan L]

Post by SteveH

Post by Dan L

Post by SteveH

Post by p***@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk

Again, I'm with Steve here. People really do form impressions
based on such things.

It has to be asked. What impression would people form if one
turned up in an Alfa?

Heh.
'Fuck me, he's lucky he made it'

Hmm, I saw an Alfa GT 1.9 Tdi coupe today.

JTD, you mean.

Post by Dan L
I have to admit I considered it as potentially suitable.
For a second or two

They're very suitable, actually - they're in demand, meaning they have
good residual values and hence aren't stupidly expensive to lease. The
engine has also been proven to be strong and reliable - so much so
that GM buy them in for their cars.
I'd have one. Obviously.

It did look rather nice actually, but then I'd also consider a Hyundai
Coupe, which prolly makes me even slightly more unhinged than you.
--
Dan L
***@gmail.com
http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

[Champ]

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:09:33 +0000, Paul Corfield

Post by Paul Corfield

Post by SteveH
Yes, there's a measure of worth involved - but it's a measure of how the
company values you - hence directors get A8s / Q7s, regional managers
get A6s. It's also party how you're perceived by the people you meet.
Golf SDI = sales rep / merchandiser, Passat = area manager, A6 =
regional manager. First impressions count for a lot - the car you pick
someone up in is all part of the first impression they have of you
before they get to know you.

Fascinating way to value worth and if you really think people evaluate
you based on the car you collect them in then IMO you've got a lot to
learn or else you work with some of the shallowest people I could
imagine meeting.

Again, I'm with Steve here. People really do form impressions based
on such things.

[Lozzo]

SteveH says...

Post by SteveH

Post by Bear

Post by Gyp
But are they really going to be arsed if you have a turbo or a fancy
gearbox or a changer in the boot?

He reminds me of those saddo reps who all used to get Cortinas, but used
to fight like cat and dog to get the next one up, like GL over L, GLS,
Ghia, etc.
It's sad, but fucking funny to read.

Says the man who's previously owned quite an impressive set of penis
extensions over recent years.

Important word you used there , Steve - "owned".

If I'm buying a car for my own personal use then I buy the best spec
available for the cash I have to spend. I even went to the lengths of
fitting leather trim and electric windows to a Combo van because it
suited me better. I'm sure Bear feels the same.

If it's a company car, the cheaper and more economical the better
because the tax liability is lower.

[SteveH]

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
Says the man who's previously owned quite an impressive set of penis
extensions over recent years.

Important word you used there , Steve - "owned".
If I'm buying a car for my own personal use then I buy the best spec
available for the cash I have to spend. I even went to the lengths of
fitting leather trim and electric windows to a Combo van because it
suited me better. I'm sure Bear feels the same.
If it's a company car, the cheaper and more economical the better
because the tax liability is lower.

The saving in tax is perhaps 20 or 30 quid per month in taking something
with 74bhp and no toys against something with 138bhp and a lot of toys.

Given that it's replaced my own car, that's a price I'm more than happy
to pay.

[Alison Hopkins]

Post by SteveH

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
Says the man who's previously owned quite an impressive set of penis
extensions over recent years.

Important word you used there , Steve - "owned".
If I'm buying a car for my own personal use then I buy the best spec
available for the cash I have to spend. I even went to the lengths of
fitting leather trim and electric windows to a Combo van because it
suited me better. I'm sure Bear feels the same.
If it's a company car, the cheaper and more economical the better
because the tax liability is lower.

The saving in tax is perhaps 20 or 30 quid per month in taking something
with 74bhp and no toys against something with 138bhp and a lot of toys.
Given that it's replaced my own car, that's a price I'm more than happy
to pay.

You really aren't looking at true figures. Here's mine, roughly: based on
forty percent tax.

Car allowance of 450 a month, which is 270 after tax. 3240 quid a year.

Let's say 30K miles a year, paid at 20 pence a mile and not taxable. That's
tax relief of 2000 quid for the first 10K, and a grand for the next 20K.
Equates to a tax rebate of 1200 quid at forty percent tax.

I also reckoned I made a profit on the mileage - it actually costs me about
12p a mile for the Avensis, at worst. So, that is another 2400 quid a year.

A total of..... 6840, yes? Plus, not paying tax on the company car, of
course. Now, I know it's a decent car allowance and mileage rate, and one
may not be on top rate tax. But them's the maths. (It also had the side
benefit of allowing me to pay slightly more into my pension, before the
rules changed.)

Ali

[Dan L]

Post by Bear

Post by Gyp

And it looks really professional when you wedge a director of
<instert
one of the big 4 supermarkets here> into some poverty spec hatch.

I can see if you need to regularly carry a number of adult
passengers that you need (on those occasions at least) a larger car.
But are they really going to be arsed if you have a turbo or a
fancy gearbox or a changer in the boot?

He reminds me of those saddo reps who all used to get Cortinas, but
used to fight like cat and dog to get the next one up, like GL over
L, GLS, Ghia, etc.
It's sad, but fucking funny to read.

Waves

I can remember back in the mid 90's feigning a bad back in order to get
an RT spec phase 1 Laguna with sport pack, when the model on the list
was the RN. The reason I gave was the seats being "more supportive".

The fact that it also came with metallic paint and a spoiler were
besides the point, particularly as my earstwhile colleagues had lower
spec models with solid colour paintwork, no spoiler and no body
coloured mirrors.

How I miss the corporate world.

FUCKING NOT.
--
Dan L
***@gmail.com
http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

[Lozzo]

Dan L says...

Post by Dan L

Post by Bear
He reminds me of those saddo reps who all used to get Cortinas, but
used to fight like cat and dog to get the next one up, like GL over
L, GLS, Ghia, etc.
It's sad, but fucking funny to read.

Waves
I can remember back in the mid 90's feigning a bad back in order to get
an RT spec phase 1 Laguna with sport pack, when the model on the list
was the RN. The reason I gave was the seats being "more supportive".
The fact that it also came with metallic paint and a spoiler were
besides the point, particularly as my earstwhile colleagues had lower
spec models with solid colour paintwork, no spoiler and no body
coloured mirrors.

Haha. I remember jokingly telling my old boss that I was having a
Cavalier SRi or I'd leave and go to work for his sister at the Norwich
branch. He ordered an Astra GLS for me, so I went to Norwich[1] and got
my SRi. My replacement was over the moon with his Astra.

Post by Dan L
How I miss the corporate world.
FUCKING NOT.

I'm in two minds as to whether to get another sales job or try something
different. Time and job availability will tell.

[1] I was going to move to Norwich anyway cos the ex-wife had just got a
place there to study midwifery.

[Dan L]

Post by Lozzo
Dan L says...

Post by Dan L

Post by Bear
He reminds me of those saddo reps who all used to get Cortinas,
but used to fight like cat and dog to get the next one up, like
GL over L, GLS, Ghia, etc.
It's sad, but fucking funny to read.

Waves
I can remember back in the mid 90's feigning a bad back in order to
get an RT spec phase 1 Laguna with sport pack, when the model on
the list was the RN. The reason I gave was the seats being "more
supportive".
The fact that it also came with metallic paint and a spoiler were
besides the point, particularly as my earstwhile colleagues had
lower spec models with solid colour paintwork, no spoiler and no
body coloured mirrors.

Haha. I remember jokingly telling my old boss that I was having a
Cavalier SRi or I'd leave and go to work for his sister at the
Norwich branch. He ordered an Astra GLS for me, so I went to
Norwich[1] and got my SRi. My replacement was over the moon with his
Astra.

Sweet baby Jesus, having played the game for years I was unfortunate
enough to get promoted, which meant I had a team of reps reporting to
me.

As their line manager, you can guess what the favourite collective
gripe was....... Bloody fucking arseholeing cars.

Post by Lozzo

Post by Dan L
How I miss the corporate world.
FUCKING NOT.

I'm in two minds as to whether to get another sales job or try
something different. Time and job availability will tell.

Sales management is where it's at. Particularly if you sales team
consists of 1 other person.

Post by Lozzo
[1] I was going to move to Norwich anyway cos the ex-wife had just
got a place there to study midwifery.

Norwich. All I remember was walking into The Plasterers Arms......
--
Dan L
***@gmail.com
http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

[Lozzo]

Dan L says...

Post by Dan L

Post by Lozzo
[1] I was going to move to Norwich anyway cos the ex-wife had just
got a place there to study midwifery.

Norwich. All I remember was walking into The Plasterers Arms......

My ex-wife walked into the plasteres arms, and the bricklayers arms, and
the brewers arms. Note the lack of capitals in that sentence.

[Lozzo]

SteveH says...

Post by SteveH

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
I also take more senior managers / directors from both my company and
the partner companies out in my car - it wouldn't look very good if I
picked up a director in a Polo.

The directors of my old firm were quite happy to be driven around by us
in base model Golfs. But then again, my old bosses wouldn't have
employed someone who thought his company car's badge was important to
the job he was doing.

And it looks *really* professional when you wedge a director of <instert
one of the big 4 supermarkets here> into some poverty spec hatch.
Anyway, it's not about the badge it's about the capability of the car to
do the job I want it to do. Which means something bigger and more
powerful than the cheapest diesel Golf.

You do talk some shit at times. How will having a more powerful car than
a Golf Sdi help you to do your job better. The Golf will do 70mph, the
maximum legal speed limit on mainland Britain, it will also accelerate
smartly enough to keep up with 90% of traffic floow situations. Do you
tow a large trailer, or carry extremely heavy loads? IIRC, you managed
quite nicely running back and forth to work on a bike when you were a
retail manager. Has the law changed as to manager's vehicles recently?

Please explain, Steve, I'm really intrigued as to why it is vital that
you have to have a big powerful car to do an area retail manager's job.

[SteveH]

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
Anyway, it's not about the badge it's about the capability of the car to
do the job I want it to do. Which means something bigger and more
powerful than the cheapest diesel Golf.

You do talk some shit at times. How will having a more powerful car than
a Golf Sdi help you to do your job better. The Golf will do 70mph, the
maximum legal speed limit on mainland Britain, it will also accelerate
smartly enough to keep up with 90% of traffic floow situations. Do you
tow a large trailer, or carry extremely heavy loads? IIRC, you managed
quite nicely running back and forth to work on a bike when you were a
retail manager. Has the law changed as to manager's vehicles recently?
Please explain, Steve, I'm really intrigued as to why it is vital that
you have to have a big powerful car to do an area retail manager's job.

As I've said, I need the boot space to carry a load of crap around. Also
useful for stock transfers, given there's no other way to get stuff
from, say, Aberystwyth to Chepstow. As for having something with decent
power - I'd prefer not to have to row the car along using the gearstick,
given that most of my stores are in the arse end of nowhere. OK, it's
perhaps not essential, but I arrive feeling more relaxed if I can stick
the car in 4th and let the engine do the work - when I had a Golf Plus
with the 1.8 petrol lump I seemed to be forever changing gear on the
Llandovery to Aberystwyth via Lampeter road.

[Krusty]

Post by Lozzo
SteveH says...

Post by SteveH
Anyway, it's not about the badge it's about the capability of the
car to do the job I want it to do. Which means something bigger and
more powerful than the cheapest diesel Golf.

You do talk some shit at times. How will having a more powerful car
than a Golf Sdi help you to do your job better. The Golf will do
70mph, the maximum legal speed limit on mainland Britain, it will
also accelerate smartly enough to keep up with 90% of traffic floow
situations.

Carefull, you're starting to sound like one of those people who think
vehicles should only have enough power to do 70mph.

Post by Lozzo
Please explain, Steve, I'm really intrigued as to why it is vital
that you have to have a big powerful car to do an area retail
manager's job.

More power definitely makes life easier when driving around places like
mid-Wales. It can make the difference between zipping along a country
road at 70+, & crawling along at 40 (or a lot less on the steep bits)
behind a row of trucks/caravans. If Steve spends a lot of time driving
between sites in mid-Wales, I can fully understand his point.

[Adrian]

But then again, my old bosses wouldn't have employed someone who thought
his company car's badge was important to the job he was doing.

Umm, call me picky, but don't Polos, Golfs and Passats all have the same
badge?

[Pip]

Post by Adrian

But then again, my old bosses wouldn't have employed someone who thought
his company car's badge was important to the job he was doing.

Umm, call me picky, but don't Polos, Golfs and Passats all have the same
badge?

And floorpan, don't forget the floorpan, ffs.

[Champ]

Post by Lozzo
SteveH says...

Post by SteveH
A car is an accepted part of the package in retail area management roles
- mainly because you can't do the job without one.

'A car'
A car can be a 1.2 Polo, or a 4.2 V8 Jaguar. Both will get you from A to
B. What's the big fucking deal about the level of trim or the size of
the car?

I know "pick on SteveH" is a national sport around here, but on this
occasion I'm mostly on his side. Where a significant part of one's
time is spent on the road, the quality of the car is important - it is
a mobile office after all.

And while one can say "a car is a car", we all know that not only is
nicer car is nicer place to sit, but the perception it creates *is*
real, and in business terms can be important.

[vulgarandmischevious]

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
It's also about the company valuing their management team and not
expecting them to go about their business in a pikey spec. car to save a
few quid a month.

Come back when you've run a business.

I fail to see your point here.

income - expenditure = profit.

Post by SteveH
The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some base spec.
slug, then the job instantly becomes less attractive meaning it's harder
to recruit and retain the correct calibre of people to the role.

It's all about facade to you, isn't it.

[Dan L]

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
It's also about the company valuing their management team and not
expecting them to go about their business in a pikey spec. car to

save a >> >few quid a month.

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious
Come back when you've run a business.

I fail to see your point here.

income - expenditure = profit.

Post by SteveH
The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some base
spec. slug, then the job instantly becomes less attractive meaning
it's harder to recruit and retain the correct calibre of people to
the role.

It's all about facade to you, isn't it.

I have to admit that I think Mr Blaney has hit the nail on the head
here.

I really could not GAF what car people drive when they visit me on
business, and driving a POS myself has no so far had any noticeable bad
effects on my own sales performance.

It's all a load of crap. A car's just a fucking car.

<FX resumes looking at Mercedes brochure>
--
Dan L
***@gmail.com
http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

[Lozzo]

Dan L says...

Post by Dan L

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
It's also about the company valuing their management team and not
expecting them to go about their business in a pikey spec. car to

save a >> >few quid a month.

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious
Come back when you've run a business.

I fail to see your point here.

income - expenditure = profit.

Post by SteveH
The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some base
spec. slug, then the job instantly becomes less attractive meaning
it's harder to recruit and retain the correct calibre of people to
the role.

It's all about facade to you, isn't it.

I have to admit that I think Mr Blaney has hit the nail on the head
here.
I really could not GAF what car people drive when they visit me on
business, and driving a POS myself has no so far had any noticeable bad
effects on my own sales performance.
It's all a load of crap. A car's just a fucking car.

What we have to remember is this is Steve's first company car, it's all
really exciting now he's hit the heady heights of being recognised as a
major force in the country's economy.

[Dan L]

Post by Lozzo
Dan L says...

Post by Dan L

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
It's also about the company valuing their management team and

not >> >expecting them to go about their business in a pikey
spec. car to save a >> >few quid a month.

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious
Come back when you've run a business.

I fail to see your point here.

income - expenditure = profit.

Post by SteveH
The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some base
spec. slug, then the job instantly becomes less attractive
meaning it's harder to recruit and retain the correct calibre
of people to the role.

It's all about facade to you, isn't it.

I have to admit that I think Mr Blaney has hit the nail on the head
here.
I really could not GAF what car people drive when they visit me on
business, and driving a POS myself has no so far had any noticeable
bad effects on my own sales performance.
It's all a load of crap. A car's just a fucking car.

What we have to remember is this is Steve's first company car, it's
all really exciting now he's hit the heady heights of being
recognised as a major force in the country's economy.

My first company car was a Ford Fiesta 1.4S. D124RBM where are you now.

It fucking smelt rank when it went back. My lad (now 190 was a baby,
and dropped a full beaker of milk in the back of it. I really cba to
clean it up.

It was fucking neg in the extreme, and was commented upon by it's next
user.
--
Dan L
***@gmail.com
http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

[Dan L]

Post by Dan L

Post by Lozzo
Dan L says...

Post by Dan L

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
It's also about the company valuing their management team

and not >> >expecting them to go about their business in a pikey
spec. car to save a >> >few quid a month.

Post by SteveH

Post by vulgarandmischevious
Come back when you've run a business.

I fail to see your point here.

income - expenditure = profit.

Post by SteveH
The car is part of the overall package. If the car is some
base spec. slug, then the job instantly becomes less
attractive meaning it's harder to recruit and retain the
correct calibre of people to the role.

It's all about facade to you, isn't it.

I have to admit that I think Mr Blaney has hit the nail on the
head here.
I really could not GAF what car people drive when they visit me on
business, and driving a POS myself has no so far had any
noticeable bad effects on my own sales performance.
It's all a load of crap. A car's just a fucking car.

What we have to remember is this is Steve's first company car, it's
all really exciting now he's hit the heady heights of being
recognised as a major force in the country's economy.

My first company car was a Ford Fiesta 1.4S. D124RBM where are you now.
It fucking smelt rank when it went back. My lad (now 190 was a baby,
and dropped a full beaker of milk in the back of it. I really cba to
clean it up.
It was fucking neg in the extreme, and was commented upon by it's next
user.

Bad form and all that, but seeing as my lad is 190, it makes me 440
this year.

<strokes beard>
--
Dan L
***@gmail.com
http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

[Bear]

In article <1hrr0kc.roj3xh1goo0lrN%***@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH
says...

Post by SteveH
Being stuck in a gutless 1.2 Polo when you've had a call
about issues in a store over the top of the mountains is hardly ideal.

It's Granville all over again ...

[Pete M]

Post by SteveH
I may try the other local-ish dealer, but 2 shit jobs from 2 dealers
doesn't fill me with optimism.

"They all do that, Sir".

VW service departments are pretty uniformly gormless. When I worked as a
salesman in a huge VW dealership it was a pretty hopeless task getting
anything at all done by the service department - they were always over-run
by recalls and warranty jobs

The hire company I worked for in 2005 returned almost all its VW fleet
within 6 months and to Ford, Mercedes and Peugeot. VW unreliability nearly
bankrupt them. It got to the point where if a VW was due in at a branch the
staff would be on the phone trying to swap it for a Mondeo or Focus before
it arrived because a broken VW would take a long time to fix and the branch
was responsible for cars that weren't on hire, which meant people didn't get
performance bonuses if too many VWs turned up. At one point on my fleet
there were 12 Golf FSis, and eight of those were at the VW dealership
waiting for major mechanical repairs.

Bizarrely, Seats were mega-reliable.

[vulgarandmischevious]

Post by SteveH
Being stuck in a gutless 1.2 Polo when you've had a call
about issues in a store over the top of the mountains is hardly ideal.

Someday you ought to try working in a really challenging environment.

[darsy]

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
Being stuck in a gutless 1.2 Polo when you've had a call
about issues in a store over the top of the mountains is hardly ideal.

Someday you ought to try working in a really challenging environment.

although not in your league, I have had jobs which required me to
drive to places where I could quite possibly been shot[1]

[1] e.g. 1/2 way up the Falls Road in the late 80s/early 90s.

[Lozzo]

darsy says...

Post by darsy

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
Being stuck in a gutless 1.2 Polo when you've had a call
about issues in a store over the top of the mountains is hardly ideal.

Someday you ought to try working in a really challenging environment.

although not in your league, I have had jobs which required me to
drive to places where I could quite possibly been shot.

Yeah, I've had Stockwell as part of my sales patch too.

[Cab]

Post by darsy

Post by vulgarandmischevious

Post by SteveH
Being stuck in a gutless 1.2 Polo when you've had a call
about issues in a store over the top of the mountains is hardly ideal.

Someday you ought to try working in a really challenging
environment.

although not in your league, I have had jobs which required me to
drive to places where I could quite possibly been shot[1]
[1] e.g. 1/2 way up the Falls Road in the late 80s/early 90s.

I remember having wandered up the Falls road in the late 70's and my
Mum asking an Irish lass directions to some hospital with her English
accent.

My Dad went absolutely spare when he heard about this.

I didn't understand why for a good long time (I was 9 or 10 at the
time).

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the

Post by darsy
although not in your league, I have had jobs which required me to
drive to places where I could quite possibly been shot[1]
[1] e.g. 1/2 way up the Falls Road in the late 80s/early 90s.

Certainly an incentive to do the job right.

[Christofire]

Post by Lozzo
Christofire says...

Post by Christofire

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd
prefer it to be something useable.

So the badge is more important than the service.

Not wishing to rain on your SteveH parade, but how do you get that
from that sentence? Even taking his earlier posts into
consideration, the "badge" was the same (VW polo, VW golf) but the
car was larger, with more go and to him was more useful. I don't
get what you're striving at.

It's a one day courtesy car.

<snip>

Post by Lozzo
If Steve takes his "all VW dealers are shite" attitude into the
sevice desk it's hardly surprising that they dump him in an inferior
car. Maybe if Steve planned his week a bit better he'd have been a
bit closer to home and not in need of a big car with lots of go when
his own was being serviced. I personally couldn't give a fuck what
courtesy car I drive, I'm not that much up my own arse about it.

I don't know Steve's daily life, so it may not be possible that he
could've scheduled himself around when it's convenient for the dealer.

If two dealers gave me the same standard, but one gives a better
courtesy car then why would I choose to use the other one? I've had my
car into two main dealers for servicing. Both did the work fine, but
one replaced my washer fluid[1] and put fuel additive in[2], without
warning or asking. As I've got a choice I'll lean towards the other
dealer now, as they don't fuck me about trying to do little jobs to add
value to a service, and I won't have to explicitly ask them not to
steam clean the interior, replace the mats, uprate the brakes or
generally pimp my ride in case that's their "standard service".

[1] it was full, as I know some dealers will top it off and charge for
the lot. I didn't realise this dealer was one of them
[2] something I have no truck with, and have never had before

[Dan L]

Post by SteveH

Post by Lozzo

Post by SteveH
Even the base model TDI is hugely better.
Newport VW gave me a bloody Polo 1.2 last week.... I won't be
going back there - not when Merthyr VW give you a Golf TDI.

So you judge a dealer on the spec of their loan cars, not the
quality of service you get?

They're a VW dealer, hence they all deliver the same shite level of
service.
If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd
prefer it to be something useable.

My experience of VW main dealers is that they don't like giving you a
relief car if you didn't buy the car they are servicing.
--
Dan L
***@gmail.com
http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

[SteveH]

Post by Dan L

Post by SteveH
They're a VW dealer, hence they all deliver the same shite level of
service.
If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd
prefer it to be something useable.

My experience of VW main dealers is that they don't like giving you a
relief car if you didn't buy the car they are servicing.

Aye, they'll bend over backwards if you bought the car from them.

Don't really understand why it's such a PITA experience - VW own 50% of
Leaseplan, so you'd have thought they'd ensure Leaseplan customers got
decent treatment.

[Dan L]

Post by SteveH

Post by Dan L

Post by SteveH
They're a VW dealer, hence they all deliver the same shite level
of service.
If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd
prefer it to be something useable.

My experience of VW main dealers is that they don't like giving you
a relief car if you didn't buy the car they are servicing.

Aye, they'll bend over backwards if you bought the car from them.
Don't really understand why it's such a PITA experience - VW own 50%
of Leaseplan, so you'd have thought they'd ensure Leaseplan customers
got decent treatment.

Back when I was a sales rep, our cars wee leased by Camden, who
arranged for the relief car to be waiting at the main dealers on the
day of the service, then picked up once the work was completed.
--
Dan L
***@gmail.com
http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

[ginge]

Post by SteveH

Post by Dan L

Post by SteveH
They're a VW dealer, hence they all deliver the same shite level of
service.
If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd
prefer it to be something useable.

My experience of VW main dealers is that they don't like giving you a
relief car if you didn't buy the car they are servicing.

Aye, they'll bend over backwards if you bought the car from them.
Don't really understand why it's such a PITA experience - VW own 50% of
Leaseplan, so you'd have thought they'd ensure Leaseplan customers got
decent treatment.

My car is leased via leaseplan, and they don't service it via a main
dealer at all. They use an independent Bosch service centre who collect
it, service, then return it, same day.

[SteveH]

Post by ginge

Post by SteveH

Post by Dan L
My experience of VW main dealers is that they don't like giving you a
relief car if you didn't buy the car they are servicing.

Aye, they'll bend over backwards if you bought the car from them.
Don't really understand why it's such a PITA experience - VW own 50% of
Leaseplan, so you'd have thought they'd ensure Leaseplan customers got
decent treatment.

My car is leased via leaseplan, and they don't service it via a main
dealer at all. They use an independent Bosch service centre who collect
it, service, then return it, same day.

Yeah, some of my colleagues get that service - but I don't have any
local authorised service centres - so I'm stuck with franchised dealers.

[wessie]

Post by SteveH

Post by Dan L

Post by SteveH
They're a VW dealer, hence they all deliver the same shite level of
service.
If I need to tool around in a courtesy car for a day or two, I'd
prefer it to be something useable.

My experience of VW main dealers is that they don't like giving you a
relief car if you didn't buy the car they are servicing.

Aye, they'll bend over backwards if you bought the car from them.
Don't really understand why it's such a PITA experience - VW own 50% of
Leaseplan, so you'd have thought they'd ensure Leaseplan customers got
decent treatment.

If the dealership is independently owned then they might not like dealing
with Leaseplan. I doubt they are very quick at settling their bills.

As a retail customer I am usually prepared to pay a couple of hundred quid
more for a car from a trusted dealer compared to say jamjar.com - I'd be a
bit pissed off if I didn't get priority over some shiny suited rep turning
up in his car sourced from 200 miles away.

BTW I've always found SHG at Whitchurch to be very good. Not sure if they
are close/within your patch. Not used them for a while as I no longer live
close by so can't say what the loan fleet consists of.
http://www.southhereford-volkswagen.co.uk/

[Christofire]

Post by Gyp
I often find I have more fun in that sort of car as you car drive it
in a relaxed manner if you like and make decent progress if you pay
attention. Which is why I enjoy T's 954cc Saxo. Fast cars make you lazy.

"Twice the fun, half the speed."

[Bear]

In article <1hrqsne.eytewlk3em9bN%***@italiancar.co.uk>, SteveH
says...

Post by SteveH

Post by entwisi

Post by SteveH
For that kind of mileage, I'd be asking for a cash allowance in lieu of
the car.
Reckon on the tax being around £50 / month for an average mid-sized
diesel hatch / saloon as a basic rate tax payer.

That doesn't seem a lot considering she won't be paying
insurance/tax/MOTs/ running costs etc[1]?
Its likely to be an Astra/Vectra
She has asked if it would be possible to use her own car and claim
mileage. She also drives an automatic (and has for some time ) and is
loathe to go back to manual. They are looking into whether there are any
autos in teh 'pool' of cars available.
[1] she has a 2.5 Grand Vitara so insurance is ~£500 a year before we
start on tax/tyres/servicing etc.
Cheers to teh guys who put links to teh calculators, it did seem to be
~£50 a month. I don't think there is a cash alternative on offer, its a
case of you can have one if you want.

Thing is that, if you can 'opt out' of the company scheme, and only do
what can be considered 'average' mileage, then it's quite easy to end up
with the company effectively paying her to own a car.
However, if there is no cash alternative, then taking the car isn't a
bad option, *if* it's the kind of car she's happy to drive - if it's a
base model Astra diesel or a Golf SDI then I'd think twice about paying
for the 'perk'.

For once I won't disagree with you on the profitability front, but there
is a certain peace of mind to be had in knowing that, however unlikely
it is with a modern, new, car, that if anything does go shit-shaped, it
isn't your problem.

How much that's worth is a matter for the individual.

[Vass]

Post by entwisi
Wifes been offered a job which comes with Co car. Can anyone give us a
clue as to how it will affect her tax? She has to pay for fuel then claim
business mileage but insurance etc is included. She s not going to be
doing much mileage, well under 10K pa. Wage wise its more than shes on but
certainly no CEO salary. i.e. under £20K
Any help gratefully recieved as neither of us has ever had a company
vehicle before

We have just bought some new VW Golfs for the engineers
these work out at £ 56 month tax for 22% tax payers
(fuel benefit extra)
Golf is £ 16k (retail) and emission 135 for the 1.9 Tdi
might give you an idea
hth