On May 11, 2:54 pm, Raymond <***@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 11, 1:05 pm, Raymond <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 11, 12:27 pm, Raymond <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 11, 8:05 am, Raymond <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 11, 5:09 am, timstter <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 11, 4:18 am, Raymond <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On May 10, 7:20 am, timstter <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On May 6, 10:36 am, Raymond <***@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Jack Ruby in front of the TSBD
> > > > > > > > Jack was not in the Dallas Morning News at the time of the JFK murder
> > > > > > > > as he testified and the Warren Wizards believed.
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=486......
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=486...
>
> > > > > > > That photo is not proof that Ruby was in front of the TSBD. In fact,
> > > > > > > ANOTHER man in the SAME photo was ALSO nominated as being Ruby by the
> > > > > > > JFK-CT. You can't conclusively claim the person is Ruby. That is quite
> > > > > > > stupid.
>
> > > > > > That man with the dark glasses is in the same photo as the one showing
> > > > > > Ruby in the center of the photo.with his back to the camera. He, the
> > > > > > man with the dark glasses, is in the right hand portion of the photo.
> > > > > > He was mistaken by many researchers including Richard Trask and Dan
> > > > > > Rather. Obviously, the two men can not be Ruby.
>
> > > > > > SEE WILLIS EXHIBIT No. 1-Continued (Slide No. 8)http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Willis_...
> > > > > > The extreme right upper side of the photo. The man in the dark glasses
> > > > > > is the manmistaken for Ruby
>
> > > > > > I had a the pictures of Jack enlarged and It is clear that the man in
> > > > > > the photo with his back to the camera is Ruby. Doubters should do the
> > > > > > same and they will agree that it is Jack. Compare the hair lines of
> > > > > > his head and his ears with the photos I included of Jack in the jail
> > > > > > that night. Ever hair is identical in all photos....
>
> > > > > > I discussed this issue in a letter toTrask and I believe (and hope)
> > > > > > that I convinced him that I was right
>
> > > > > > > Regards,
>
> > > > > > > Tim Brennan
> > > > > > > Sydney, Australia
> > > > > > > *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> > > > > There is nothing in that photo to say that it is Ruby. The other
> > > > > photos in the article you cite also include views of the face, making
> > > > > it possible to conclude that Ruby is in the corridor photos. The same
> > > > > can't be said for the Willis photo. Let's not forget that Robert
> > > > > Groden has published a photo that he claims shows Ruby near the
> > > > > railroad overpass. That *Ruby* is wearing a hat. You guys have THREE
> > > > > Rubys outside the TSBD, but the evidence is that he was not there.
>
> > > > Tim... Where did Ruby claim that he was at the moment that JFK was
> > > > shot?
>
> > > U tube Rubyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJE4JtGaCEw
>
> > > WC Testimony
> > > Mr. Ruby.
> > > Without a lie detector test on my testimony, my verbal statements to
> > > you, how do you know if I am tell the truth?
>
> > > I went down there Friday morning to Tony Zoppi's office, and they said
> > > he went to New Orleans for a couple of days.
> > > I picked up the brochure. I believe I got downtown there at 10:30 or
> > > 11 o'clock that morning. And I took the brochure and then went into
> > > the main room where we compose our ads. That is the sales room where
> > > we placed our ads. And I remained there for a while. I started to
> > > write the copy of my ad. Now I go back to the same fellow that wanted
> > > me to come over to the club when we were having our dinner on
> > > Mockingbird at the Egyptian Lounge.
>
> This man was Don Campbell that Jack said he met at the Egyptian
> Loungeon Thursday night and could be the person that Jack testiied
> that he was with at the Dallas Morning News until 12 25
>
> Mr. Ruby.
> All right. Thursday night I was having dinner at the Egyptian
> Restaurant on Mockingbird Lane, and a "fellow" comes over to the
> table. I was sitting with a guy by the name of Ralph Paul. He tried to
> invite me to the club a couple of doors down and I refused, because he
> had taken a band away from me that had been engaged for 7 years, and I
> felt it was a lost cause, that the club would be failing because of
> that, and I sort of excused myself and I refused to go over to the
> club.
>
> We finished our dinner, and I went down to the club that I operated,
> the Carousel, and this particular master of ceremonies happened to be
> there at the time, and we discussed a few things.
>
> Campbell said that it could have been another night that he had seen
> Ruby at the Egyptian Lounge... maybe a week earlier
>
> The one person that I warned the readers about (Don Campbell) that
> could throw a wrench into my argument that Ruby was in Dealey Plaza at
> the time of the shooting. And, the idea that Campbell and Ruby spent
> time together until 12:25 came from guess who.------. Jack Ruby
> himself. And, Jack never mentioned the name Campbell.
>
> And Campbell never testified before the Commission.
>
> Jack said he spent 25 minutes with a "fellow" but gives no name or
> time period.
>
> Campbell made a statement to two FBI SAs (12/4/63) Vol XXV page 563
> (COMM EX 2436) where he says HE left the building at 12:25 because he
> had to see another customer. Campbell advised he did not return to his
> office before Ruby's departure. He also said he heard that Jack had
> eaten in the cafeteria at the News that morning
>
> Read Ruby's statement carefully. He went to Zoppi's office and read a
> brochure during this alleged time period also.
>
> It was Ruby;s attorney Melvin Belli that was responsible for the Ruby
> alibi about the 12:25 time with Don Campbell. . Read the trial
> testimony.
>
> Don Campbellhttp://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_02...
>
> Confusing ? Yes, Jack could not get his alibi straight
>
> And consequently, the weekend, I had been to town on that particular
> day. All this adds up later on, as I will state why I didn't go to the
> parade.
>
> In the first place, I don't want to go where there is big crowds. I
> can't explain it to you. If I was interested, I would have seen it on
> television, our beloved President and all the parade that transpired.
>
> But all that adds up why it is important for me to be in the News
> Building.
>
> I owe the Government quite a bit of money, and it is doing business
> out of your pocket, supposedly, in the slang expression.
> Well, John Newnam comes in, and evidently he took it for granted I
> finished my ad, and I don't recall if he paid for his ad, and suddenly
> there is some milling around 8 I think it was 12, or 15 minutes after
> 12, I don't recall what, but BUT JOHN NEWMAN SAID SOMEONE HAD BEEN
> SHOT
>
> Jack, the someone was Jack Kennedy and he was shot at 12 31
>
> And I am sorry, I got carried away. It is the first time I got carried
> away, because I had been under pressure.
>
> And someone else came running over and he said a Secret Service man
> was shot, or something to that effect.
>
> And I am here in the middle with John Newnam, because Newnam isn't
> paying any attention to anyone else, and there is a lot of going back
> and forth.
>
> So someone must have made a statement that Governor Connally was shot.
> I don't recall what was said. And I was in a state of hysteria, I
> mean.
>
> You say, "Oh my God, it can't happen." You carry on crazy sayings.
>
> There was a little television set in one office not far away from
> where I had been sitting at the desk. I ran over there and noticed a
> little boy and a little sister say, "I was standing right there when
> it happened." I mean, different things you hear on the television.
> Then the phone started ringing off the desk and I heard John Newnam
> say people were complaining about the ad, why they accepted this ad.
>
> http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/issues_and_evidence/jack_ruby/Ruby_WCR_t...
>
> Martin Shackelford
> Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk, alt.assassination.jfk
> From: "Martin Shackelford" <***@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: 6 May 2007 11:04:45 -0400
> Local: Sun, May 6 2007 11:04 am
>
> Subject: Re: Evidence of Ruby in Dealey Plaza
>
> Certainly your co-author, Martha Moyers, knows her stuff regarding
> Ruby. I note that, at the time the motorcade was due in Dealey Plaza,
> 12:25, Don Campbell was just leaving Ruby and exiting the building. He
> doesn't indicate that Ruby left at this time, only that Campbell did.
> Had Ruby left at the same time, much less after, he would have had to
> run to get to Dealey Plaza in time to see the shooting. The Willis
> photo (Figure 1) definitely does not show Jack Ruby. Other photos of
> the same man, taken from closer locations, show that it is definitely
> not Ruby, though the man bears a vague general resemblance to Ruby. I
> would refer you to the photo on p. 178 of Pictures of the Pain by
> Richard Trask. There are a number of other photos also showing the
> man.
> Martin
>
> When I first came online and began encountering Martin's occasional
> messages at the JFK-related Usenet groups in 1998, it was apparent
> that he was exceptionally well-informed. But it also became apparent
> before long that Martin was not averse to making claims he could not
> or would not substantiate"
>
> ---- Dave Reitzeshttp://www.jfk-online.com/judythshack.html
>
> Scan down to see photo
>
> Some conspiracy theorists over the years have claimed that the man
> wearing the dark glasses at the far right in the above picture is Jack
> Ruby. But another photo showing the same man in sunglasses (below),
> which was taken at about the same time as the image above, proves
> those theorists to be incorrect:
>
> Right, the man in the sunglasses, in the rigt of the picture is not
> Ruby. This is the problem. The man with his back to the camera, the
> balding man, is JACK RUBY...Enlarge the photo and compare it with the
> pictures of Ruby in the jail and there will be no doubt left.
http://kennedy-photos.blogspot.com/
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk.uncensored/msg/b...> > I came to the desk and I wanted to apologize and explain why I didn't
> > > accept his invitation last night. I wanted to explain, and that took
> > > about 20 or 25 minutes. All this is pertaining to everything prior to
> > > the terrible tragedy that happened.
> > > I started to explain to him why I didn't want to go there, because
> > > this fellow mentioned--Tony, I think---I can't think of his last name
> > > of me having his band so many years, and I felt at the moment I didn't
> > > want to go over to the club because I didn't care to meet this fellow.
>
> > > And he started to apologize, "Jack, I am sorry, I did work for the
> > > fellow and Mr. Ruby. we have been advertising him for that club, and I
> > > am putting out a night club book."
>
> > > I remained with him for 20 or 25 minutes talking there. I don't know
> > > whether my ad was completed or not. It was an ad on the Vegas and the
> > > Carousel.
>
> > > My ads were completed, I believe, and after finishing my conversation
> > > with him, he left.
>
> > Ruby testified that he met with Newman until 12.25 and Newman left the
> > building.
>
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > Well, I left on our regular business--I left the office----I imagine
> > around 9:15 or 9:30.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Ruby was not there then?
> > Mr. Newman.
> > No, sir.
>
> > Newman's testimony
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Did you see him on November 22, 1963?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > Yes, sir.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Where?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > At the Dallas News advertising department.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > The second floor ?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > The second floor.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > In the building on the corner of Houston and Young Streets?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > Yes, sir.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Could you tell us what time it was you first saw Ruby on that day ?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > It was approximately 12:40.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > How do you fix that time, sir?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > I fix that time this way: I watched the motorcade at Main and Austin.
> > After the motorcade had passed, naturally, I proceeded to the office
> > to take care of a few matters which had to be taken care of.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Had you been to the office prior to going to see the parade?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > I had been there early in the morning; yes, sir.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > At what time did you leave to go to see the parade?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > Well, I left on our regular business--I left the office----I imagine
> > around 9:15 or 9:30.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Ruby was not there then?
> > Mr. Newman.
> > No, sir.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Go ahead then about your fixing of the time at which you got back to
> > the second floor of the building.
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > I knew the motorcade was coming to Dallas and through downtown, and
> > since my area covers downtown, I was rather anxious to get as much
> > done as quickly as possible to get back to the office, and after
> > taking care of the business which was normal to take care of, I walked
> > back to the I was walking back to fine office because it was just
> > about as quick to walk as to try to wait for a shopper's bus, because
> > the crowd was gathering.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > At the time you saw the parade, how far were you from the Dallas
> > Morning News office?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > I was about--well, walking distance, I would say about 7 or 8 blocks.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Did you walk back ?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > Yes.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Approximately what time do you think you saw the President pass ?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > I would say approximately 12--it must have been about 12:25 or
> > possibly 12:26.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Did you leave your position on Austin and' Main and proceed to walk
> > back to the Dallas Morning News Building, immediately after the
> > President himself had passed in the motorcade?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > Yes, sir.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > And you Walked the 7 blocks or so?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > Yes, sir.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > When you got there, was Ruby on the second floor of the Dallas Morning
> > News?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > Yes; he was.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Was he standing or sitting or what was he doing?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > He was sitting at my desk.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > That is to say--No. 23 on Exhibit No. 4, is that correct?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > Right, sir.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Did you know at that time when you first saw him, that the
> > President had been shot?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > No, sir.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > What was he doing?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > He was looking at a paper; I believe it was that morning's issue of
> > the paper.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Well, was he engaged in drawing up the draft of an ad?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > This--he had already completed--this he had finished, yes.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > How do you know that, did he hand it to you when he came in?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > I had---just--someone had reserved the space and he had fixed it,
> > prepared the ad and put it in the box, which he knew what to do---the
> > procedure.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Did you have any conversation with him immediately upon your arrival?
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > Spoke.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Was it unusual ----
> > Mr. Newnam.
> > I just spoke in the usual manner--I said,, "Hi Jack" and he spoke
> > back, and that was about all.
> > Mr. Hubert.
> > Was it unusual that he should be occupying your desk?
>
> > > Suddenly the man that completes my ads for me, that helps me with it
> > > on occasion--but I usually make it up myself--but the person that
> > > takes the money for the ads--this is the reason it is so hard for me
> > > to meet a deadline when I get downtown to the News Building. And as a
> > > rule, I have to pay cash for my ads.
>
> > > When you are in debt, it is necessary, and they will not put it in
> > > unless you pay cash.
>
> > > And consequently, the weekend, I had been to town on that particular
> > > day. All this adds up later on, as I will state why I didn't go to the
> > > parade.
>
> > > In the first place, I don't want to go where there is big crowds. I
> > > can't explain it to you. If I was interested, I would have seen it on
> > > television, our beloved President and all the parade that transpired.
>
> > > But all that adds up why it is important for me to be in the News
> > > Building.
>
> > > I owe the Government quite a bit of money, and it is doing business
> > > out of your pocket, supposedly, in the slang expression.
> > > Well, John Newnam comes in, and evidently he took it for granted I
> > > finished my ad, and I don't recall if he paid for his ad, and suddenly
> > > there is some milling around. I think it was 12, or 15 minutes after
> > > 12, I don't recall what, but John Newnam said someone had been shot.
>
> > > And I am sorry, I got carried away. It is the first time I got carried
> > > away, because I had been under pressure.
>
> > > And someone else came running over and he said a Secret Service man
> > > was shot, or something to that effect.
>
> > > And I am here in the middle with John Newnam, because Newnam isn't
> > > paying any attention to anyone else, and there is a lot of going back
> > > and forth.
>
> > > So someone must have made a statement that Governor Connally was shot.
> > > I don't recall what was said. And I was in a state of hysteria, I
> > > mean.
>
> > > You say, "Oh my God, it can't happen." You carry on crazy sayings.
>
> > > There was a little television set in one office not far away from
> > > where I had been sitting at the desk. I ran over there and noticed a
> > > little boy and a little sister say, "I was standing right there when
> > > it happened." I mean, different things you hear on the television.
> > > Then the phone started ringing off the desk and I heard John Newnam
> > > say people were complaining about the ad, why they accepted this ad.
>
> > > (A tray of water and glasses was brought in.)
> > > Thank you.
> > > Cont'd
> > > Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. V - Page 185 « Previous | Next »
> > > (Testimony of Mr. Jack Ruby)http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol5/page185.php
>
> > > 12:31pm? Malcolm Couch says that Wes Wise told him that he had seen
> > > Ruby walking around the side of the TSBD only moments after the
> > > shooting. Couch was forced to back down on this as hearsay - and no
> > > record of Wise ever confirming? [Crossfire, 325].
>
> > > Ruby lied. He was not in the Dallas morning News at the times that he
> > > testified to.
> > > SEE,http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId...
>
> > > The article titled 'Where Was Jack Ruby on the 21st and the 22nd" is
> > > well researched and if you can find fault with my findings on each
> > > witness. I would like you to relate it in a reply. Read the entire
> > > article CAREFULLY. Each witness was telling the truth as they saw it,
> > > but they all were wrong on their timing of events. And Ruby was lying
> > > about his contact with some of
> > > them entirely..He was not in the Dallas Morning News at the time of
> > > the shooting. He was in the area of the TSBD at that moment in time
> > > and did go to the DMNs shortly after the firing at the motorcade What
> > > his purpose was at the scene of the murder is unclear. He had no
> > > reason to lie about his whereabouts at 12:30 unless he had a reason to
> > > hide .He could have told the truth and said that he went to see the
> > > president's motorcade.Instead, he claimed that he was in the Dallas
> > > Morning News.
>
> > > I also believe that he went to Parkland Hospital after leaving the
> > > DMNs. He lied about that also. Why? He had as much right to go there
> > > as any other citizen. Many believe it was to plant the magic bullet
> > > because he failled to plant it at the scene of the shooting where it
> > > could easily be found and traced to the murder weapon since it was not
> > > certain that the other slugs used in the coup d'etat would be in
> > > condition to be traced to the weapon later found in the TSBD building.
> > > The Parkland bullet was insurance and it worked well.
>
> > > Ruby told the Warren Commission that he was never at Parkland Hospital
> > > and the Committee chose to believe Ruby Why is it that some people
> > > will believe a worthless pimp like Jack Ruby before they will believe
> > > a man like Seth Kantor, a long time
> > > honest reporter? Ruby was seen wandering in Parkland Hospital by
> > > veteran reporter Seth Kantor who had a conversation with Ruby at the
> > > same time JFK was in the emergency room . Kantor who had spoken to
> > > Ruby on numerous occasions over the years knew him well, yet, the
> > > Warren Wizards claimed Kantor simply misidentified Ruby and was
> > > speaking with someone Kantor only thought was Ruby.
>
> > > John McAdams wrote,
> > > " I don't think you have any evidence that Ruby was a pimp. In fact,
> > > he was rather moralistic about the notion that some of his
> > > "girls" might be hustling. "
>
> > > The Warren Commission took a great deal of testimony from people who
> > > werelittle more than character witnesses for Jack Ruby. Despite the
> > > greatheaps of paperwork available to them which characterized Ruby as
> > > asmuggler of arms and narcotics, a pimp, a man of some importance to
> > > the Chicago Mob,
>
> > > In about January 1956, a pimp named James Breen met with Ruby to
> > > discuss collaboration ...
>
> > > Comment?
>
> > > > > When I call your conclusion stupid, I didn't say YOU were stupid.
> > > > > There is a difference. To me the guy in the Willis photo looks like
>
> > > ...
>
> > > read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
Some conspiracy theorists over the years have claimed that the man
wearing the dark glasses at the far right in the above picture is Jack
Ruby. But another photo showing the same man in sunglasses (below),
which was taken at about the same time as the image above, proves
those theorists to be incorrect:
Right, the man in the sunglasses, in the rigt of the picture is not
Ruby. This is the problem. The man with his back to the camera, the
balding man, is JACK RUBY...Enlarge the photo and compare it with the
pictures of Ruby in the jail and there will be no doubt left.
Scan down to see the Willis photos
http://kennedy-photos.blogspot.com/