Post by Poetic JusticeJTEM wrote;
The first is that it's interpreted -- post
Christianity -- to be a Christian "Good
Shepard" fresco.
[Our timeline is Mid-3rdC] Have you ever
visited the Catacombs outside of Rome or
any Roman museums?
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
JTEM wrote;
The catacombs are hardly without issue,
=A0Of course, when offered proof opposing you there are always *issues*
or it's problematic or whatever.
Many early catacombs were started by Pagans but later Christians became
the vast majority of the burials.
=A0=A0Pagan wall paintings, engraving, etc being miss-identified as
Christian has happened but usually corrected by modern scholars.
=A0The earliest Rome catacomb (C1 to C4) with Christian ties and the
earliest Christian tombs ID'ed Late-2C.
Also there are 3 Popes buried there with dated inscriptions in our
timeframe.
Post by Poetic Justice[If not, 'Google Image' catacombs "good
shephard" rome.]
You're simply arguing in circles here.
Yes, Christianity did adopt that "Good
Shepard" iconography,
Yes! And in our timeframe they were the *very vast* majority using that
image!
Post by Poetic Justicebut they were far from the first,
and they weren't even alone in the 4th
century, let alone earlier.
Yes you have said that before (2000+yrs and by other cultures).
And I've asked you (twice maybe?) to back it up (fresco, mosaic, vase
painting, etc) with *that* theme within our timeframe.
Provide the same proof you always demand from others, not *your*
opinion.
=A0All I'm saying 'in our timeline =B1 100yrs' it was almost exclusively
used by Christians.
And the evidence (which you lack) is in many catacombs, some museums,
etc and of Christian origin.
BTW I do know of a C2 Pagan one.
Post by Poetic Justice"The good Shepard" does not nor can not
identify christians.
In our timeframe it's almost a given.
=A0So back-up your claim and prove me wrong with evidence that it was
also a popular *image* among non-Christians in our timeframe.
Post by Poetic Justice[That image is very very popular and
seems to be exclusively Christian]
No it doesn't.
=A0You are correct, I misspoke. I should have said "and seems to be
*almost* exclusively Christian.
=A0=A0Admitting when wrong is a nice trait and IIRC in another thread
you actually admitted to doing it *once*.
Post by Poetic JusticeThe problem is that it's always identified
as Christian.
Duh! Possibly because the vast majority of times they are, within the
proper timeframe of course.
But some Pagan images have been ID'ed Christian in the distant/recent
past but more often than not modern day scholars dismiss it or question
its validity.
Post by Poetic JusticeThat's certainly a very problematic
interpretation, as it goes on to identify
Adam and Eve in the very same fresco.
Jesus in Edan? That's not right...
[He's not!!!]
Sorry, you're just plain wrong.
=A0Sorry my ass!!!!
=A0You purposely Fucking cut-out my whole explaination for "He's not!!!"
(In Eden) (my complete post below).
=A0=A0That's being very deceitful and doing that and then responding to
it would be
lying.
=A0You and Giwer are 2 peas in a pod as you both employ these same
tactics when you can't prove your point.
And No, I'm not going to waste my time proving that point to you.
Post by Poetic JusticeThe fresco includes what the same bible
thumpers call Adam & Eve.
=A0And scholars and there is a reason for it (below).
Post by Poetic Justice[Use a little common sense.]
[SNIP BS website article with an agenda]
Post by Poetic JusticeAt left is the Good Shepherd, a common
image for Christ;. Below that image,
roughly sketched is Adam and Eve.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Fy
EujfVqy_9o9BCAQ4d5A
There. EXACTLY as I said.
As *I* also stated in the section you cut-out!
It's roughly sketched but detailed if you did any research you might
know that (see below).
Post by Poetic JusticeThis next one, just to be fair, seems to
recognize the problem and invents the
idea that it's Adam & Eve "after the fall."
=A0Try getting all the facts before inventing them yourself and being
shown to be a fool.
Post by Poetic JusticeWhat -- if anything -- so much as hints at
this they of course never say...
=A0Nor did you try to find out, it was just an informative snippet not a
damn thesis!
Post by Poetic JusticeThe Good Shepherd with Adam and Eve
After the Fall
http://www.proprofs.com/flashcards/card
howall.php?title=3Dearly-christian_4 Ironic.
You're denying the two additional figures
in the painting,
Another lie. Your deceptive cutting of my response makes it appear that
way though.
I said that they were *in the fresco* and even described location,
size, etc and even detail (reposted bottom of page) but you knew that
already.
Post by Poetic Justiceand what the bible thumpers identify them
as.
And scholars.
Post by Poetic JusticeYou're in a free fall fantasy....
And you're a liar and deceitful.
Anyone can go back to my last posting or look below and see exactly
what you did.
It is you in fantasyland because in your reality you imagine that no
one will catch-on when you *openly* do this and this is far from the 1st
time, I read your posts and No, I am not going waste my time in a google
groups search.
Post by Poetic Justice[It's a religious painting making a
statement above what is almost certainly
a Baptistery.]
That is entirely circular.
=A0The only thing circular here is your spinning.
Post by Poetic JusticeFIRST the image is misinterpreted as a
screwed up
Jesus-in-Edan-as-the-Good-Shepard,
No, it is ONLY interpreted as that by YOU any idiot can see the main
focus of the fresco is 'The Good Shepherd'.
=A0It is making a simple statement (original sin and redemption thru
Jesus).
=A0It is a painting showing 2 seperate stories that are tied together
and the *much larger scene* is the *main theme*.
=A0The *whole complete smaller Eden scene* with small people, small
tree, etc takes-up slightly more area than just the shepherd alone
does...meaning????
The shepherd and the flock of sheep take-up a *much* larger area in the
painting and they are centered.
And the Eden image is located below and off in a sidecorner from the of
main Shepherd/flock theme.
=A0But you see the complete painting as the 'Garden of Eden'...Amazing!
=A0=A0So in esp religious art you have *never* seen this technique with
a large main theme with other much smaller scenes around it (painting,
stained glass windows, etc) and it's relating a religious story?
=A0They are often seen in structures called museums and churches FYI.
Post by Poetic Justiceand only FOLLOWING that everything
else is interpreted within that fantasy.
=A0Please don't ever let scholars, facts or common sense cloud your
amazing clear vision.
Post by Poetic Justice[Small image in lower left corner; 'Adam,
Eve, serpent, tree', Man's Original Sin.] =A0
This "Serpent" is absent from almost
every other description, as is the "Tree."
So if YOU don't see or hear about it on a couple of websites it doesn't
exist and it's just made-up by the bible-thumpers...correct?
1st off I'm not going to waste my time for you by searching for it.
And in 14yrs on the internet no one has ever called me out for being a
liar or deceitful, so going on what I have seen and read about this is
as far as I go.
=A0I don't know exactly how it is done or what it is called. But by
using a (hi-def?) camera, light filters?, UV light? different light wave
lengths, etc they can bring out an invisible to the naked eye or a very
weak image.
=A0I've seen many results of this on the internet, books, documentaries
being done on frescos, graffiti, etc and it is usually an outline sketch
of what was discovered which is sometimes overlaid over the original.
Post by Poetic JusticeThese pillars or whatever they are would
have to be "Trees," plural, as there are
more than one.
=A0So wildly guessing *again*?
The hi-tec resulting sketch of that small scene is very detailed.
A small podium with a pillar in each corner (no roof) in the center of
the podium is a single tree.
=A0Using Adam's height the trunk is ~2m and the leaves/branches/fruit
section is round like a bush.
=A0Common sense here so I'll try not to lose you.
The structure is an open-air shrine beyond a doubt, this is after all
God's Tree of Knowledge, so *the artist* puts it in a shrine as it is
unlike all other trees and a common structure seen in the Pagan Roman
Empire.
=A0Adam stands on one side of the tree, Eve on the other.
Both have one hand covering their genitals and the other reaching up
into
the tree.
=A0On the ground before the podium is a simply drawn snake.
Post by Poetic JusticeYou're making my point. People are
merely seeing what they want to see.
=A0And once again you prove your own point!
Post by Poetic JusticeMain larger image centered; 'Good
Shephard' aka Jesus Christ. Accept Jesus
as savour, get head dunked in water, and
get a clean sin slate or something like
that.
These words don;t appear ANYWHERE
on the image.
=A0If you didn't realize that they were my words for an interpertion of
a religious scene you have a serious problem with reality that you
should address.
Post by Poetic JusticeThey're entirely made up.
=A0Those words have been around quite for a while, I just put them in a
certain order to make a point HTH.
=A0You see this is how I'd guess the majority of rational non-agenda
loons with a just a basic knowledge of Christianity and common sense
would interpert this fresco esp in a place of honor over a Christian
baptistery.
=A0I can't envision that ever happening in my lifetime if I always have
my current state of mind.
Post by Poetic JusticeYou're not talking about Dura Europa,
you're talking about some fantasy with
serpents & text...
=A0I have *repeatedly* proven you wrong regarding your fantasy BS
opinions using 'proof vs your opinion/no proof'.
=A0Your 'text' issue though is completely off-the-wall behaviour.
=A0=A0I'm done responding on this thread with you as it is a total waste
of my time which I already knew when I so foolishly responded. ~Walter
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[The text which you cut]
Post by Poetic JusticeHe's not!!! Use a little common sense.
It's a religious painting making a
statement above what is almost certainly
a Baptistery.
Small image in lower left corner; 'Adam,
Eve, serpent, tree', Man's Original Sin.
Main larger image centered; 'Good
Shephard' aka Jesus Christ. Accept Jesus
as savour, get head dunked in water, and
get a clean sin slate or something like
that.
