Rod Pemberton wrote:
...
Post by Rod PembertonNone of them require authentication. I've noticed that although AIOE is
back online, it's not carrying alt.lang.asm for read...
Oh, yeah! They're back! Working okay for me. I'd given up and quit
trying them. Thanks for the tip.
...
Post by Rod PembertonPost by fbkotler... roommate ... he ...
Roomate? He? :-o
Sigh... There's only a few situations I know of where you'd have a male
roommate, and most of them are (usually considered) undesirable. :-D Think
about it...
Okay, I'm thinking about it... Is this implied fag-bashing? I'd have
expected better of you.
Actually, I have two male roommates. I'm a polygamous faggot! Perhaps it
would inflame less purient interest if I'd said "housemate" - we don't
actually share a bed. They give me a good deal of help around the place
- cutting, splitting, lugging wood, keeping the driveway plowed, etc.
Seems quite desirable to me. If I in fact had a male roommate, bedmate,
lover, spouse (where it's legal), "domestic partner", whatever, I assume
I would find that desirable, also. They love each other, y'know. ("Just
like your woman loves you" - Andy Pratt)
I'm a little "sensitive" to fag-bashing. Back in '65 or '66 I told my
Draft Board I was "a queer" ("gay" mostly meant "cheerful" in those
days)... and like the song says, "they all moved away from me on the
Group W bench". Got me to thinking... if *you* want to sleep with me,
you can care whether I sleep with men or women. If you *don't* want to
sleep with me, why should you care who I sleep with? "Think about it."
Perhaps that's not what you were getting at. I *knew* I could expect
better of ya!
FWIW, his password didn't get me into Giganews... I appreciate the free
servers. Wouldn't kill me to pay for it. But when I signed up for this
deal, I *was* paying for it! Seems almost fraudulent to pull services
I'm paying for. I guess the fine print allows them to change the rules
if they want to. I'm not sure if Fairpoint is being fraudulent or just
hasn't got their shit together... yet(? one may hope)... They don't seem
very competent.
Post by Rod PembertonPost by fbkotlerPost by Rod PembertonOk, I'll humor you. What's the smallest set of general (i.e., no fpu,
no
Post by fbkotlerPost by Rod PembertonSSE, no XMM, etc) x86 assembly instructions needed to program general
x86
Post by fbkotlerPost by Rod Pembertonassembly? There, that's asm related... Yes? Is it lodsb, stosb, push,
pop, xchg, loop, jcxz and arithmetic instructions? Or, can you think up
any
Post by fbkotlerPost by Rod Pembertonother use for "rep lodsb" other than that posted by Jim Leonard on
comp.lang.asm.x86 recently?
I've seen just "lodsb" used as a replacement for "inc esi" (Fasm code
uses it, IIRC)... Does that count?
The only thing other than for string use that I've used "lodsb" for was with
"xchg" for space: 2 byte register loads with lodsb/w to al/ax, xchg to move
to other register.
That's a good one. I'm thinking I may have misremembered what I saw in
the Fasm code - probably "lodsd" - I remember it was shorter, and the
load wasn't used...
Post by Rod PembertonPost by fbkotlerWhy isn't this killing the "quote"? Didn't want it to, but expected it
to... Maybe my newsreader's broken...
Sorry, didn't know it was supposed to... Is it?
Well, I thought so... "--" on a line by itself designates the start of
the "signature", and anything after it isn't included in the "quote". I
may be thinking of FidoNet... Isn't working like that, in any case...
Post by Rod PembertonPost by fbkotlerPost by Rod PembertonWell, I haven't seen a post here from the "KKK" in a while (Kotler,
Kleebauer, or Kern).
Hadn't thought of us quite that way. :)
:-) Hopefully, no undeserved negative connotations will stick. I just
noticed a bunch of lastnames with K... Thought it'd be funny.
Agreed.
Post by Rod PembertonPost by fbkotlerI'm still around. I think
Herbert's still with us. I fear Wolfgang may have "gone missing".
Well, it seemed he thought he'd be back online after a move in his last post
a number of months ago. He mentioned health issues a few times... We
aren't family, but it'd still be nice to know his status.
Yeah. Herbert's checked in with a one-instruction example. People come
and go, as you say, but I can't help worrying about the folks who drop
out of "sight"... I can't *believe* Beth left without saying goodbye...
at length. :)
Post by Rod PembertonPost by fbkotlerI read a review from one of Randy's former students - claimed he was
lacking in social skills.
*I'm* lacking in social skills...
Well, if *I* had any social skills, I suppose I'd be living with twin
blonds about eighteen instead of a couple guys. I didn't say it couldn't
be *more* desirable! (the gals that can carry their weight in firewood
scare me though...)
Post by Rod PembertonPost by fbkotlerI'll try to get back to ya on that "Nasm philosophy" question
IIRC, I didn't post a philosophy question. ;-) Even if I should've or
could've or might've under certain circumstances or at a different point in
time stated it more politely, that's why I use NASM. I want simplicity.
Extra details, RTFM, "it's in there," etc. doesn't make things easier for
me. "It's in there" with MASM too. If NDISASM always disassembled
correctly, so one could use it to determine correct syntax from constructed
byte sequences, it wouldn't be as significant to me. But, NDISASM hasn't
been keeping pace with NASM, IMO.
You didn't post a Nasm philosophy question here, but I recall that you
used the phrase on the bugtracker. I suggested that we might discuss
Nasm philosophy, and you said "nothing bad, I hope". No nothing bad, I
just thought we could kick it around a bit. If I misremember... we can
still kick it around... if anyone wants to. I recall you saying
something like:
"No STUPID words in STUPID places!"
I like that idea, but Nasm hasn't done terribly well at it. As of 0.98,
you had to say "push word 3" or "push dword 3". Shortly thereafter, it
was decided that defaulting to the "default bitness" was a reasonable
thing to do. Still have to say "push dword [eax]" though...
I think your complaint was about "mov rax, [mem]" having to say "mov
rax, qword [mem]" if "mem" is to be taken as 64 bits. I *think* you
wanted "mov rax, [mem]" to emit the 32-bit form if "mem" would fit in 32
bits, and "automatically" use the 64-bit form if it wouldn't (I may have
this wrong).
That seems reasonable to me, and I wouldn't object to it. But it could
be considered analogous to "jcc target" - if "target" is more than 128
bytes away, you have to say "jcc near target" - or use the "-O" switch
to give Nasm "permission" to change it. So while you may be right to
gripe about "qword" being required, it's pretty much "the way Nasm's
always worked". Actually, I guess the "Nasm way" would give you the long
form, unless you said "dword" or used "-O" - as it does for "jmp" or the
various instructions with "signed byte" forms. I understand (not
familiar with 64-bit code) that the 32-bit form is what's "usually"
wanted, so this break from "default to long form" may be warranted.
Another exposition of the "Nasm philosophy" might be from the Friendly
Manual:
"So here, for your coding pleasure, is NASM. At present it's still in
prototype stage - we don't promise that it can outperform any of
these assemblers. But please, _please_ send us bug reports, fixes,
helpful information, and anything else you can get your hands on
(and thanks to the many people who've done this already! You all
know who you are), and we'll improve it out of all recognition.
Again."
This hasn't always been true... and I guess it's not true now if the
developers disagree with ya. But other than the times when Nasm has been
"placed in a medically induced coma" (aka "dead"), the development team
("people come and go") has done a pretty good job of keeping Nasm
debugged and responsive to user needs. Can't please all the people all
the time, of course. Nasm is *still* in a prototype stage - "macho64" is
languishing for lack of a maintainer, for example. A new (old) bug just
turned up on c.l.a.x. - presumably there are more And we probably don't
*want* it improved out of *all* recognition...
My own take on the "Nasm philosophy" would be something like:
"Nasm does exactly what you tell it. The corollary to this is that you
must tell Nasm exactly what you want."
In other words, "extra" keywords are better than erroneous ASSumptions.
Nasm does pretty well at this, IMO...
When it comes to Ndisasm... Nasm's red-headed step-child... it could
certainly be better. I think Ndisasm was kind of a throwaway - "while
we're at it, lets do a disassembler, too!" It has never been a
particularly "virtuous" disassembler. The current development team seems
to be paying a little more attention to it, so it might become more to
your taste as time goes by. Impossible to do a perfect disassembly in
all cases, but Ndisasm *could* be taught about headers for MZ, PE, ELF,
macho, I suppose... An interactive front-end would be nice, too.
"Portable" would be nice, but probably impossible... highly impractical,
at least. I don't anticipate any eagerness to maintain such a beast, so
don't expect much...
There are other disassemblers. One I recently discovered (it only
recently learned Nasm syntax) is Agner Fog's "objconv":
http://www.agner.org/optimize/#objconv
It even interjects comments where your code could be improved! (doesn't
catch dumb algorithms, AFAIK). As the name implies, it has utility
beyond just a disassembler - "-fnasm" is the only thing I've used.
Post by Rod PembertonPost by fbkotlerJust haven't been "in the mood" lately...
Coming out of the "winter blues" here too... Yeah, it was the end of
another long, cold one here,
Maybe it's the "winter blues". In the summer, I figure I should be out
puttering around instead of sitting in front of the computer. Now, I'm
sitting in front of the computer anyway, but I seem to be mostly in
read-only mode. Getting behind in my personal email, too. (for some
reason, the "techie talk" seems come easier than "blablabla how are the
kids"...)
We were just beginning to see a little bare ground... but now it's
snowing again (after about a three week break - not bad). Hunker down
and tolerate it for a while longer, I guess...
Post by Rod Pembertonat same time parts of OZ were ablaze. Did you
see the videos of OZ's firestorms? Unreal!
Frightening!!! Not one of the species we've got around here, but I guess
Eucalyptus burns pretty good! (biofuel???) Makes you realize how much
we're at the mercy of weather. Not enough rain, or too much - disaster!
At least tornados are pretty rare around here (not completely unheard of)!
Post by Rod Pemberton(I've been using AU for OZ, but
noticed the media uses AU for African Union... I probably PO'd all of
Africa in some old post!)
Serves 'em right for stealing Astronomical Unit for their name! When I
first heard "OZ" for Australia, I thought it was a regional affectation,
but it seems to have become common usage.
Post by Rod PembertonFortunately, other areas of the US that don't
usually get severe winters got blasted pretty hard too! That warms the
heart a bit and provides a small tear of perverse joy. :)
Well... I'll admit to a little glee, seeing other people "get it" -
mostly glad it's not happening here - but a lot of sympathy, too. When I
saw the recent ice storm in Kentucky and thereabouts, it reminded me of
the ice storm we had back in December... Gets to be a drag, hauling
water from the creek to flush toilets when the power goes out! And we're
near a stream! Power's flickering a little now - not enough to knock the
computer down. I'll send this before it does...
Best,
Frank