Discussion:
#New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug laws
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5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
2009-08-25 03:03:30 UTC
Permalink
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/shake-and-bake-meth-formula-skirts-anti-
drug-laws/

New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug
laws

[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No. Cal.
boonies: "Bicycle Meth". Stuff is made on bicycles. Few fumes, and
nearly impossible for LE to spot. I had been wondering how that was
possible]

JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS
AP News

Aug 24, 2009 20:26 EST

This is the new formula for methamphetamine: a two-liter soda bottle, a
few handfuls of cold pills and some noxious chemicals. Shake the bottle
and the volatile reaction produces one of the world's most addictive
drugs.

Only a few years ago, making meth required an elaborate lab — with filthy
containers simmering over open flames, cans of flammable liquids and
hundreds of pills. The process gave off foul odors, sometimes sparked
explosions and was so hard to conceal that dealers often "cooked" their
drugs in rural areas.

But now drug users are making their own meth in small batches using a
faster, cheaper and much simpler method with ingredients that can be
carried in a knapsack and mixed on the run. The "shake-and-bake" approach
has become popular because it requires a relatively small number of pills
of the decongestant pseudoephedrine — an amount easily obtained under
even the toughest anti-meth laws that have been adopted across the nation
to restrict large purchases of some cold medication.

"Somebody somewhere said 'Wait this requires a lot less pseudoephedrine,
and I can fly under the radar,'" said Mark Woodward, spokesman for the
Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control.

An Associated Press review of lab seizures and interviews with state and
federal law enforcement agents found that the new method is rapidly
spreading across the nation's midsection and is contributing to a spike
in the number of meth cases after years of declining arrests.

The new formula does away with the clutter of typical meth labs, and it
can turn the back seat of a car or a bathroom stall into a makeshift drug
factory. Some addicts have even made the drug while driving.

The pills are crushed, combined with some common household chemicals and
then shaken in the soda bottle. No flame is required.

Using the new formula, batches of meth are much smaller but just as
dangerous as the old system, which sometimes produces powerful
explosions, touches off intense fires and releases drug ingredients that
must be handled as toxic waste.

"If there is any oxygen at all in the bottle, it has a propensity to make
a giant fireball," said Sgt. Jason Clark of the Missouri State Highway
Patrol's Division of Drug and Crime Control. "You're not dealing with
rocket scientists here anyway. If they get unlucky at all, it can have a
very devastating reaction."

One little mistake, such as unscrewing the bottle cap too fast, can
result in a huge blast, and police in Alabama, Oklahoma and other states
have linked dozens of flash fires this year — some of them fatal — to
meth manufacturing.

"Every meth recipe is dangerous, but in this one, if you don't shake it
just right, you can build up too much pressure, and the container can
pop," Woodward said.

When fire broke out in older labs, "it was usually on a stove in a back
room or garage and people would just run, but when these things pop, you
see more extreme burns because they are holding it. There are more fires
and more burns because of the close proximity, whether it's on a couch or
driving down the road."

After the chemical reaction, what's left is a crystalline powder that
users smoke, snort or inject. They often discard the bottle, which now
contains a poisonous brown and white sludge. Dozens of reports describe
toxic bottles strewn along highways and rural roads in states with the
worst meth problems.

The do-it-yourself method creates just enough meth for a few hits,
allowing users to make their own doses instead of buying mass-produced
drugs from a dealer.

"It simplified the process so much that everybody's making their own
dope," said Kevin Williams, sheriff of Marion County, Ala., about 80
miles west of Birmingham. "It can be your next-door neighbor doing it. It
can be one of your family members living downstairs in the basement."

A typical meth lab would normally take days to generate a full-size batch
of meth, which would require a heat source and dozens, maybe hundreds, of
boxes of cold pills.

But because the new method uses far less pseudoephedrine, small-time
users are able to make the drug in spite of a federal law that bars
customers from buying more than 9 grams — roughly 300 pills — a month.

The federal government and dozens of states adopted restrictions on
pseudoephedrine in 2005, and the number of lab busts fell dramatically.

The total number of clandestine meth lab incidents reported to the Drug
Enforcement Administration fell from almost 17,400 in 2003 to just 7,347
in 2006.

But the number of busts has begun to climb again, and some authorities
blame the shake-and-bake method for renewing meth activity.

The AP review of 14 states found:

_ At least 10 states reported increases in meth lab seizures or meth-
related arrests from 2007 to 2008.

_ The Mississippi State Crime Lab participated in 457 meth incidents
through May 31, up from 122 for the same period a year ago — a nearly 275
percent increase.

_ Several states, such as Oklahoma and Tennessee, are on pace this year
to double the number of labs busted in 2008. The director of Tennessee's
meth task force said the pace of lab busts in his state is projected to
be about 1,300 for 2009, compared with 815 for all of 2008.

Some states lack a central database to monitor cold medicine sales, so
meth cooks circumvent state laws by pill shopping in multiple cities and
states — a practice known as "smurfing" that allows them to stay under
restrictions placed on sales.

Traci Fruit, a special agent with the Kansas Bureau of Investigation,
said law enforcement officials are becoming increasingly frustrated
because there's no way to tell who is buying what "unless we go from
store to store ourselves and pull up the records."

Historically, rural states like Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas have been
hotbeds for meth use because an important ingredient in the traditional
method, anhydrous ammonia, was easily available from tanks on farms where
it's used as a fertilizer. But the new formula does not need anhydrous
ammonia and instead uses ammonium nitrate, a compound easily found in
instant cold packs that can be purchased at any drug store.

Data from the Justice Department and the DEA data suggest the method
could only be in its early stages, and "shake-and-bake" labs have
recently been discovered as far north as Indiana and as far east as West
Virginia.

States surveyed by the AP also included: Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas,
Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Kansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama,
Georgia, New Mexico, Arizona and California.

While many law enforcement agencies are just learning how to spot the new
labs, other states are rushing to close loopholes in laws limiting the
sale of meth ingredients.

Mississippi Sen. Sid Albritton, said that state's law — modeled after
Oklahoma's — forces buyers to show identification and makes stores keep a
log of cold medicine sales. But the problem in Mississippi is lack of
technology to instantly log purchases in a central database.

"You have to understand going in that drugs are an evolutionary process,"
said Albritton, a former police detective and narcotics officer. "The day
after we pass a law, they are going to look for ways to circumvent that."

___

Associated Press writers Roxana Hegeman in Wichita, Kan.; Holbrook Mohr
in Jackson, Miss.; Tom Parsons in Little Rock, Ark.; Bill Poovey in
Chattanooga, Tenn.; Jim Salter in St. Louis; and John Zenor in
Montgomery, Ala., contributed to this report.
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
Phlip
2009-08-25 03:09:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No. Cal.
boonies: "Bicycle Meth".  Stuff is made on bicycles.  Few fumes, and
nearly impossible for LE to spot.  I had been wondering how that was
possible]
And never forget - kids these days have an easier time getting drugs
than alcohol. Your tax dollars at work!

http://zeekland.zeroplayer.com/Pigleg_Too/15
5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
2009-08-25 03:32:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No.
Cal. boonies: "Bicycle Meth".  Stuff is made on bicycles.  Few fumes,
and nearly impossible for LE to spot.  I had been wondering how that
was possible]
And never forget - kids these days have an easier time getting drugs
than alcohol. Your tax dollars at work!
http://zeekland.zeroplayer.com/Pigleg_Too/15
Yeah, but at least they aren't smoking marijuana!
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
Dank 110100100
2009-08-25 05:20:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
Post by Phlip
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No.
Cal. boonies: "Bicycle Meth".  Stuff is made on bicycles.  Few fumes,
and nearly impossible for LE to spot.  I had been wondering how that
was possible]
And never forget - kids these days have an easier time getting drugs
than alcohol. Your tax dollars at work!
 http://zeekland.zeroplayer.com/Pigleg_Too/15
Yeah, but at least they aren't smoking marijuana!
The U.S. military provides amphetamine pills to pilots and even
soldiers to help combat fatigue during important missions. Use of the
drug is supposed to be voluntary, but pilots have reported being
reprimanded for failing to take the pills.

The Nazi German army used amphetamines extensively, and Adolf himself
was a hardcore meth user, receiving up to five injections of the drug
per day. The allied forces were put at a serious disadvantage, having
to stop to camp for the night while tweaked-out German troops marched
right over them.
5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
2009-08-25 05:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
Post by Phlip
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No.
Cal. boonies: "Bicycle Meth".  Stuff is made on bicycles.  Few
fumes, and nearly impossible for LE to spot.  I had been wondering
how that was possible]
And never forget - kids these days have an easier time getting drugs
than alcohol. Your tax dollars at work!
 http://zeekland.zeroplayer.com/Pigleg_Too/15
Yeah, but at least they aren't smoking marijuana!
The U.S. military provides amphetamine pills to pilots and even soldiers
to help combat fatigue during important missions. Use of the drug is
supposed to be voluntary, but pilots have reported being reprimanded for
failing to take the pills.
The Nazi German army used amphetamines extensively, and Adolf himself
was a hardcore meth user, receiving up to five injections of the drug
per day. The allied forces were put at a serious disadvantage, having
to stop to camp for the night while tweaked-out German troops marched
right over them.
...and lost.
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
Phlip
2009-08-25 18:13:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
Post by Dank 110100100
The Nazi German army used amphetamines extensively, and Adolf himself
was a hardcore meth user, receiving up to five injections of the drug
per day.  The allied forces were put at a serious disadvantage, having
to stop to camp for the night while tweaked-out German troops marched
right over them.
...and lost.
Thurston Howell III: Sirrah, I have studied the battle strategies of
Hitler and Napoleon!

The Professor: Oh, great. Two losers!
Steve
2009-08-25 09:00:50 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:32:41 -0500, "5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09"
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
Post by Phlip
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No.
Cal. boonies: "Bicycle Meth".  Stuff is made on bicycles.  Few fumes,
and nearly impossible for LE to spot.  I had been wondering how that
was possible]
And never forget - kids these days have an easier time getting drugs
than alcohol. Your tax dollars at work!
http://zeekland.zeroplayer.com/Pigleg_Too/15
Yeah, but at least they aren't smoking marijuana!
But they'll end up standing on a corner with their little "god bless"
signs wondering why people like me give them no more than a big grin.

--
Lost your job?

Don't blame me, I voted Republican.
Milt
2009-08-25 17:31:27 UTC
Permalink
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/shake-and-bake-meth-formula-skirts-a...
drug-laws/
New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug
laws
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No. Cal.
boonies: "Bicycle Meth".  Stuff is made on bicycles.  Few fumes, and
nearly impossible for LE to spot.  I had been wondering how that was
possible]
JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS
AP News
Aug 24, 2009 20:26 EST
This is the new formula for methamphetamine: a two-liter soda bottle, a
few handfuls of cold pills and some noxious chemicals. Shake the bottle
and the volatile reaction produces one of the world's most addictive
drugs.
Only a few years ago, making meth required an elaborate lab — with filthy
containers simmering over open flames, cans of flammable liquids and
hundreds of pills. The process gave off foul odors, sometimes sparked
explosions and was so hard to conceal that dealers often "cooked" their
drugs in rural areas.
But now drug users are making their own meth in small batches using a
faster, cheaper and much simpler method with ingredients that can be
carried in a knapsack and mixed on the run. The "shake-and-bake" approach
has become popular because it requires a relatively small number of pills
of the decongestant pseudoephedrine — an amount easily obtained under
even the toughest anti-meth laws that have been adopted across the nation
to restrict large purchases of some cold medication.
"Somebody somewhere said 'Wait this requires a lot less pseudoephedrine,
and I can fly under the radar,'" said Mark Woodward, spokesman for the
Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control.
An Associated Press review of lab seizures and interviews with state and
federal law enforcement agents found that the new method is rapidly
spreading across the nation's midsection and is contributing to a spike
in the number of meth cases after years of declining arrests.
The new formula does away with the clutter of typical meth labs, and it
can turn the back seat of a car or a bathroom stall into a makeshift drug
factory. Some addicts have even made the drug while driving.
The pills are crushed, combined with some common household chemicals and
then shaken in the soda bottle. No flame is required.
Using the new formula, batches of meth are much smaller but just as
dangerous as the old system, which sometimes produces powerful
explosions, touches off intense fires and releases drug ingredients that
must be handled as toxic waste.
"If there is any oxygen at all in the bottle, it has a propensity to make
a giant fireball," said Sgt. Jason Clark of the Missouri State Highway
Patrol's Division of Drug and Crime Control. "You're not dealing with
rocket scientists here anyway. If they get unlucky at all, it can have a
very devastating reaction."
One little mistake, such as unscrewing the bottle cap too fast, can
result in a huge blast, and police in Alabama, Oklahoma and other states
have linked dozens of flash fires this year — some of them fatal — to
meth manufacturing.
"Every meth recipe is dangerous, but in this one, if you don't shake it
just right, you can build up too much pressure, and the container can
pop," Woodward said.
When fire broke out in older labs, "it was usually on a stove in a back
room or garage and people would just run, but when these things pop, you
see more extreme burns because they are holding it. There are more fires
and more burns because of the close proximity, whether it's on a couch or
driving down the road."
After the chemical reaction, what's left is a crystalline powder that
users smoke, snort or inject. They often discard the bottle, which now
contains a poisonous brown and white sludge. Dozens of reports describe
toxic bottles strewn along highways and rural roads in states with the
worst meth problems.
The do-it-yourself method creates just enough meth for a few hits,
allowing users to make their own doses instead of buying mass-produced
drugs from a dealer.
"It simplified the process so much that everybody's making their own
dope," said Kevin Williams, sheriff of Marion County, Ala., about 80
miles west of Birmingham. "It can be your next-door neighbor doing it. It
can be one of your family members living downstairs in the basement."
A typical meth lab would normally take days to generate a full-size batch
of meth, which would require a heat source and dozens, maybe hundreds, of
boxes of cold pills.
But because the new method uses far less pseudoephedrine, small-time
users are able to make the drug in spite of a federal law that bars
customers from buying more than 9 grams — roughly 300 pills — a month.
The federal government and dozens of states adopted restrictions on
pseudoephedrine in 2005, and the number of lab busts fell dramatically.
The total number of clandestine meth lab incidents reported to the Drug
Enforcement Administration fell from almost 17,400 in 2003 to just 7,347
in 2006.
But the number of busts has begun to climb again, and some authorities
blame the shake-and-bake method for renewing meth activity.
_ At least 10 states reported increases in meth lab seizures or meth-
related arrests from 2007 to 2008.
_ The Mississippi State Crime Lab participated in 457 meth incidents
through May 31, up from 122 for the same period a year ago — a nearly 275
percent increase.
_ Several states, such as Oklahoma and Tennessee, are on pace this year
to double the number of labs busted in 2008. The director of Tennessee's
meth task force said the pace of lab busts in his state is projected to
be about 1,300 for 2009, compared with 815 for all of 2008.
Some states lack a central database to monitor cold medicine sales, so
meth cooks circumvent state laws by pill shopping in multiple cities and
states — a practice known as "smurfing" that allows them to stay under
restrictions placed on sales.
Traci Fruit, a special agent with the Kansas Bureau of Investigation,
said law enforcement officials are becoming increasingly frustrated
because there's no way to tell who is buying what "unless we go from
store to store ourselves and pull up the records."
Historically, rural states like Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas have been
hotbeds for meth use because an important ingredient in the traditional
method, anhydrous ammonia, was easily available from tanks on farms where
it's used as a fertilizer. But the new formula does not need anhydrous
ammonia and instead uses ammonium nitrate, a compound easily found in
instant cold packs that can be purchased at any drug store.
Data from the Justice Department and the DEA data suggest the method
could only be in its early stages, and "shake-and-bake" labs have
recently been discovered as far north as Indiana and as far east as West
Virginia.
States surveyed by the AP also included: Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas,
Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Kansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama,
Georgia, New Mexico, Arizona and California.
While many law enforcement agencies are just learning how to spot the new
labs, other states are rushing to close loopholes in laws limiting the
sale of meth ingredients.
Mississippi Sen. Sid Albritton, said that state's law — modeled after
Oklahoma's — forces buyers to show identification and makes stores keep a
log of cold medicine sales. But the problem in Mississippi is lack of
technology to instantly log purchases in a central database.
"You have to understand going in that drugs are an evolutionary process,"
said Albritton, a former police detective and narcotics officer. "The day
after we pass a law, they are going to look for ways to circumvent that."
So, why do we continue paying hundreds of billions of dollars a year
on Prohibition again?

I get pissed off when I have to go to the pharmacy and have them scan
my driver's license just to buy over the counter allergy medication.
Now, I suppose, if I decide to buy a two-liter coke along with it,
they'll follow me home and arrest me?

There really is no drug war. We're at war with ourselves...
Phlip
2009-08-25 18:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milt
There really is no drug war. We're at war with ourselves...
Diiing! What do we have for him, Johnie?!
5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
2009-08-25 18:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milt
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/shake-and-bake-meth-formula-skirts-a...
drug-laws/
New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug
laws
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No. Cal.
boonies: "Bicycle Meth".  Stuff is made on bicycles.  Few fumes, and
nearly impossible for LE to spot.  I had been wondering how that was
possible]
JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS
AP News
Aug 24, 2009 20:26 EST
This is the new formula for methamphetamine: a two-liter soda bottle, a
few handfuls of cold pills and some noxious chemicals. Shake the bottle
and the volatile reaction produces one of the world's most addictive
drugs.
Only a few years ago, making meth required an elaborate lab — with filthy
containers simmering over open flames, cans of flammable liquids and
hundreds of pills. The process gave off foul odors, sometimes sparked
explosions and was so hard to conceal that dealers often "cooked" their
drugs in rural areas.
But now drug users are making their own meth in small batches using a
faster, cheaper and much simpler method with ingredients that can be
carried in a knapsack and mixed on the run. The "shake-and-bake" approach
has become popular because it requires a relatively small number of pills
of the decongestant pseudoephedrine — an amount easily obtained under
even the toughest anti-meth laws that have been adopted across the nation
to restrict large purchases of some cold medication.
"Somebody somewhere said 'Wait this requires a lot less pseudoephedrine,
and I can fly under the radar,'" said Mark Woodward, spokesman for the
Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control.
An Associated Press review of lab seizures and interviews with state and
federal law enforcement agents found that the new method is rapidly
spreading across the nation's midsection and is contributing to a spike
in the number of meth cases after years of declining arrests.
The new formula does away with the clutter of typical meth labs, and it
can turn the back seat of a car or a bathroom stall into a makeshift drug
factory. Some addicts have even made the drug while driving.
The pills are crushed, combined with some common household chemicals and
then shaken in the soda bottle. No flame is required.
Using the new formula, batches of meth are much smaller but just as
dangerous as the old system, which sometimes produces powerful
explosions, touches off intense fires and releases drug ingredients that
must be handled as toxic waste.
"If there is any oxygen at all in the bottle, it has a propensity to make
a giant fireball," said Sgt. Jason Clark of the Missouri State Highway
Patrol's Division of Drug and Crime Control. "You're not dealing with
rocket scientists here anyway. If they get unlucky at all, it can have a
very devastating reaction."
One little mistake, such as unscrewing the bottle cap too fast, can
result in a huge blast, and police in Alabama, Oklahoma and other states
have linked dozens of flash fires this year — some of them fatal — to
meth manufacturing.
"Every meth recipe is dangerous, but in this one, if you don't shake it
just right, you can build up too much pressure, and the container can
pop," Woodward said.
When fire broke out in older labs, "it was usually on a stove in a back
room or garage and people would just run, but when these things pop, you
see more extreme burns because they are holding it. There are more fires
and more burns because of the close proximity, whether it's on a couch or
driving down the road."
After the chemical reaction, what's left is a crystalline powder that
users smoke, snort or inject. They often discard the bottle, which now
contains a poisonous brown and white sludge. Dozens of reports describe
toxic bottles strewn along highways and rural roads in states with the
worst meth problems.
The do-it-yourself method creates just enough meth for a few hits,
allowing users to make their own doses instead of buying mass-produced
drugs from a dealer.
"It simplified the process so much that everybody's making their own
dope," said Kevin Williams, sheriff of Marion County, Ala., about 80
miles west of Birmingham. "It can be your next-door neighbor doing it. It
can be one of your family members living downstairs in the basement."
A typical meth lab would normally take days to generate a full-size batch
of meth, which would require a heat source and dozens, maybe hundreds, of
boxes of cold pills.
But because the new method uses far less pseudoephedrine, small-time
users are able to make the drug in spite of a federal law that bars
customers from buying more than 9 grams — roughly 300 pills — a month.
The federal government and dozens of states adopted restrictions on
pseudoephedrine in 2005, and the number of lab busts fell dramatically.
The total number of clandestine meth lab incidents reported to the Drug
Enforcement Administration fell from almost 17,400 in 2003 to just 7,347
in 2006.
But the number of busts has begun to climb again, and some authorities
blame the shake-and-bake method for renewing meth activity.
_ At least 10 states reported increases in meth lab seizures or meth-
related arrests from 2007 to 2008.
_ The Mississippi State Crime Lab participated in 457 meth incidents
through May 31, up from 122 for the same period a year ago — a nearly 275
percent increase.
_ Several states, such as Oklahoma and Tennessee, are on pace this year
to double the number of labs busted in 2008. The director of Tennessee's
meth task force said the pace of lab busts in his state is projected to
be about 1,300 for 2009, compared with 815 for all of 2008.
Some states lack a central database to monitor cold medicine sales, so
meth cooks circumvent state laws by pill shopping in multiple cities and
states — a practice known as "smurfing" that allows them to stay under
restrictions placed on sales.
Traci Fruit, a special agent with the Kansas Bureau of Investigation,
said law enforcement officials are becoming increasingly frustrated
because there's no way to tell who is buying what "unless we go from
store to store ourselves and pull up the records."
Historically, rural states like Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas have been
hotbeds for meth use because an important ingredient in the traditional
method, anhydrous ammonia, was easily available from tanks on farms where
it's used as a fertilizer. But the new formula does not need anhydrous
ammonia and instead uses ammonium nitrate, a compound easily found in
instant cold packs that can be purchased at any drug store.
Data from the Justice Department and the DEA data suggest the method
could only be in its early stages, and "shake-and-bake" labs have
recently been discovered as far north as Indiana and as far east as West
Virginia.
States surveyed by the AP also included: Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas,
Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Kansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama,
Georgia, New Mexico, Arizona and California.
While many law enforcement agencies are just learning how to spot the new
labs, other states are rushing to close loopholes in laws limiting the
sale of meth ingredients.
Mississippi Sen. Sid Albritton, said that state's law — modeled after
Oklahoma's — forces buyers to show identification and makes stores keep a
log of cold medicine sales. But the problem in Mississippi is lack of
technology to instantly log purchases in a central database.
"You have to understand going in that drugs are an evolutionary process,"
said Albritton, a former police detective and narcotics officer. "The day
after we pass a law, they are going to look for ways to circumvent that."
So, why do we continue paying hundreds of billions of dollars a year
on Prohibition again?
I get pissed off when I have to go to the pharmacy and have them scan
my driver's license just to buy over the counter allergy medication.
Now, I suppose, if I decide to buy a two-liter coke along with it,
they'll follow me home and arrest me?
There really is no drug war. We're at war with ourselves...
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.

You're right: they are fighting human nature. Prohibition doesn't
work at best, and usually just makes things far worse.
Phlip
2009-08-25 18:19:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.  
You... you mean prohibition of softer drugs is a stepping stone to
prohibition of harder drugs??

Who'da thought it??
Dank 110100100
2009-08-25 19:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.  
You... you mean prohibition of softer drugs is a stepping stone to
prohibition of harder drugs??
Who'da thought it??
Since marijuana is just as illegal as crystal meth, potheads who buy
marijuana on the black market are likely to encounter meth along the
way. If marijuana were legally sold in retail stores, users would be
unlikely to encounter meth or meth users, no more than beer drinkers
do.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
2009-08-25 23:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dank 110100100
Post by Phlip
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.
You... you mean prohibition of softer drugs is a stepping stone to
prohibition of harder drugs??
Who'da thought it??
Since marijuana is just as illegal as crystal meth, potheads who buy
marijuana on the black market are likely to encounter meth along the
way. If marijuana were legally sold in retail stores, users would be
unlikely to encounter meth or meth users, no more than beer drinkers
do.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4595018.stm
#begin quote
Dutch cannabis policy challenged
The Dutch have long been famous for their tolerant attitude to
cannabis.

But now they are re-examining their approach, because millions of
European "drugs tourists" are heading to the Netherlands to do what
they cannot do at home, the BBC's Mike Donkin reports.
#end quote
--
I heard Clinton buried a time capsule at his new presidental
library sized like an overseas shipping container filled with stuff
he didn't want anyone to find till long after his death, the real
deed to Whitewater, the envelope for the Tyson Foods chicken
payoffs, the real gun he used to whack Foster, the keys to the
Exocet missile he took Ron Brown out with, copies of another few
thousand illegally acquired FBI files on his enemies, tickets to
Tahiti from the White House Travel Office, a few more soiled
dresses, a couple of cases of well chewed Cuban cigars, and the
unabridged version of his autobiography. That last one was touch
and go just getting the bugger in.
Milt
2009-08-26 17:43:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dank 110100100
Post by Phlip
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.  
You... you mean prohibition of softer drugs is a stepping stone to
prohibition of harder drugs??
Who'da thought it??
Since marijuana is just as illegal as crystal meth, potheads who buy
marijuana on the black market are likely to encounter meth along the
way.  If marijuana were legally sold in retail stores, users would be
unlikely to encounter meth or meth users, no more than beer drinkers
do.
It would depend on the cost. People aren't buying meth, so much as
making it themselves. As this article shows, anyone with some cold
medicine with pseudoephedrine and a couple of household cleaners can
whip up a batch in a soda bottle.

My point is, I don't actually think the pot laws are causing this
problem. It's just an example that, if people are going to get high,
there isn't a damn thing anyone in authority can do to stop them.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
2009-08-26 18:48:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milt
Post by Dank 110100100
Post by Phlip
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.
You... you mean prohibition of softer drugs is a stepping stone to
prohibition of harder drugs??
Who'da thought it??
Since marijuana is just as illegal as crystal meth, potheads who buy
marijuana on the black market are likely to encounter meth along the
way. If marijuana were legally sold in retail stores, users would be
unlikely to encounter meth or meth users, no more than beer drinkers
do.
It would depend on the cost. People aren't buying meth, so much as
making it themselves.
That's a new thing.
Post by Milt
As this article shows, anyone with some cold
medicine with pseudoephedrine and a couple of household cleaners can
whip up a batch in a soda bottle.
My point is, I don't actually think the pot laws are causing this
problem. It's just an example that, if people are going to get high,
there isn't a damn thing anyone in authority can do to stop them.
Is that true? Public policy can't push things in one direction or
another?
--
I heard Clinton buried a time capsule at his new presidential
library sized like an overseas shipping container filled with stuff
he didn't want anyone to find till long after his death, the real
deed to Whitewater, the envelope for the Tyson Foods chicken
payoffs, the real gun he used to whack Foster, the keys to the
Exocet missile he took Ron Brown out with, copies of another few
thousand illegally acquired FBI files on his enemies, tickets to
Tahiti from the White House Travel Office, a few more soiled
dresses, a couple of cases of well chewed Cuban cigars, and the
unabridged version of his autobiography. That last one was touch
and go just getting the bugger in.
Milt
2009-08-26 20:18:53 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 26, 11:48 am, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by Milt
Post by Dank 110100100
Post by Phlip
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.
You... you mean prohibition of softer drugs is a stepping stone to
prohibition of harder drugs??
Who'da thought it??
Since marijuana is just as illegal as crystal meth, potheads who buy
marijuana on the black market are likely to encounter meth along the
way.  If marijuana were legally sold in retail stores, users would be
unlikely to encounter meth or meth users, no more than beer drinkers
do.
It would depend on the cost. People aren't buying meth, so much as
making it themselves.
That's a new thing.
Where have you been?

People have been blowing themselves up in trailer parks for about the
last 20 years making this shit. The method in this article is just the
latest iteration.
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by Milt
As this article shows, anyone with some cold
medicine with pseudoephedrine and a couple of household cleaners can
whip up a batch in a soda bottle.
My point is, I don't actually think the pot laws are causing this
problem. It's just an example that, if people are going to get high,
there isn't a damn thing anyone in authority can do to stop them.
Is that true? Public policy can't push things in one direction or
another?
Not when it comes to people who decide they want to destroy themselves
with drugs.

Public policy that give such people hope might work, but the people
who support continued prohibition are against that, as well.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
2009-08-27 01:11:56 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 26, 11:48 am, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by Milt
Post by Dank 110100100
Post by Phlip
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.
You... you mean prohibition of softer drugs is a stepping stone to
prohibition of harder drugs??
Who'da thought it??
Since marijuana is just as illegal as crystal meth, potheads who buy
marijuana on the black market are likely to encounter meth along the
way. If marijuana were legally sold in retail stores, users would be
unlikely to encounter meth or meth users, no more than beer drinkers
do.
It would depend on the cost. People aren't buying meth, so much as
making it themselves.
That's a new thing.
Where have you been?
People have been blowing themselves up in trailer parks for about the
last 20 years making this shit. The method in this article is just the
latest iteration.
It's the new thing I was referring to. Before that, they were
making larger batches which was made more difficult by limits on
how many cold medicine packages you could purchase at once.
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by Milt
As this article shows, anyone with some cold
medicine with pseudoephedrine and a couple of household cleaners can
whip up a batch in a soda bottle.
My point is, I don't actually think the pot laws are causing this
problem. It's just an example that, if people are going to get high,
there isn't a damn thing anyone in authority can do to stop them.
Is that true? Public policy can't push things in one direction or
another?
Not when it comes to people who decide they want to destroy themselves
with drugs.
This stuff is so addictive, I'm not sure that it's a choice for
many after one time.
Public policy that give such people hope might work, but the people
who support continued prohibition are against that, as well.
Really, how are they against "hope"?
--
I heard Clinton buried a time capsule at his new presidential
library sized like an overseas shipping container filled with stuff
he didn't want anyone to find till long after his death, the real
deed to Whitewater, the envelope for the Tyson Foods chicken
payoffs, the real gun he used to whack Foster, the keys to the
Exocet missile he took Ron Brown out with, copies of another few
thousand illegally acquired FBI files on his enemies, tickets to
Tahiti from the White House Travel Office, a few more soiled
dresses, a couple of cases of well chewed Cuban cigars, and the
unabridged version of his autobiography. That last one was touch
and go just getting the bugger in.
5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
2009-08-27 02:00:12 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:11:56 -0100, Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of
On Aug 26, 11:48 am, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by Milt
Post by Dank 110100100
Post by Phlip
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities
hadn't so ferociously persecuted weed smokers.
You... you mean prohibition of softer drugs is a stepping stone
to prohibition of harder drugs??
Who'da thought it??
Since marijuana is just as illegal as crystal meth, potheads who
buy marijuana on the black market are likely to encounter meth
along the way. If marijuana were legally sold in retail stores,
users would be unlikely to encounter meth or meth users, no more
than beer drinkers do.
It would depend on the cost. People aren't buying meth, so much as
making it themselves.
That's a new thing.
Where have you been?
People have been blowing themselves up in trailer parks for about the
last 20 years making this shit. The method in this article is just the
latest iteration.
It's the new thing I was referring to. Before that, they were making
larger batches which was made more difficult by limits on how many cold
medicine packages you could purchase at once.
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by Milt
As this article shows, anyone with some cold medicine with
pseudoephedrine and a couple of household cleaners can whip up a
batch in a soda bottle.
My point is, I don't actually think the pot laws are causing this
problem. It's just an example that, if people are going to get
high, there isn't a damn thing anyone in authority can do to stop
them.
Is that true? Public policy can't push things in one direction or
another?
Not when it comes to people who decide they want to destroy themselves
with drugs.
This stuff is so addictive, I'm not sure that it's a choice for many
after one time.
It's incredibly cheap, and incredibly available.

Ironically, marijuana is good at alleviating withdrawal symptoms.
Public policy that give such people hope might work, but the people who
support continued prohibition are against that, as well.
Really, how are they against "hope"?
I noticed today that the Argentian Supreme Court ruled that it is
unconstitutional to punish people for private pot use. Hopefully, a
bunch of lawyers here are considering taking that tack in weed cases that
come up.
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
Phlip
2009-08-27 02:56:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milt
Not when it comes to people who decide they want to destroy themselves
with drugs.
This stuff is so addictive, I'm not sure that it's a choice for many
after one time.
It's incredibly cheap, and incredibly available.  
Ironically, marijuana is good at alleviating withdrawal symptoms.
Clinical studies have shown that cannabis is good for the withdrawal
symptoms of opiates such as morphine. It eases the chills, cramping &
vomiting, the same way it works on people using chemotherapy.

And because cannabis is not itself physically addictive (like I learn
from our "just say no to drugs" campaign in junior high school), it's
therefor a stepping-stone drug FROM morphine TO a drug-free state.
5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
2009-08-27 05:11:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
Post by Milt
Not when it comes to people who decide they want to destroy
themselves with drugs.
This stuff is so addictive, I'm not sure that it's a choice for many
after one time.
It's incredibly cheap, and incredibly available.
Ironically, marijuana is good at alleviating withdrawal symptoms.
Clinical studies have shown that cannabis is good for the withdrawal
symptoms of opiates such as morphine. It eases the chills, cramping &
vomiting, the same way it works on people using chemotherapy.
And because cannabis is not itself physically addictive (like I learn
from our "just say no to drugs" campaign in junior high school), it's
therefor a stepping-stone drug FROM morphine TO a drug-free state.
I've have a medical marijuana dispensary open two doors down from me this
week, and I've been watching, fascinated. I hadn't heard about it in
advance, and I talked to a few people with prescriptions, who I thought
WOULD have heard about it, and they were taken completely by surprise,
too.

In a small town, that's pretty extraordinary.

I know the people running it, and they are a pretty together bunch. And
word got around pretty quickly. By noon, there was a line out front of
people clutching prescription forms and medical marijuana licenses,
queued up to buy legal weed. Until now, it had been a sixty mile drive
to a town that frequently hits 110 degrees in the summer. It was a
pretty astonishing sight in an area so remote that even the opening of
the latest Harry Potter didn't draw a line. You don't even have to wait
in line at the DMV.

I don't have a license, and don't use it recreationally, but I think it's
going to be a very valuable addition to the town. Apparently a second
clinic opened up on the other side of town on the same day. I'll have to
mosey by and chat with their landlords, who are friends of mine. (If you
don't have a prescription, you can't enter the dispensary, so I can't
just wander in and chat to the folks the way I would the new bakery or
the city hall.
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
2009-08-27 05:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:11:56 -0100, Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of
On Aug 26, 11:48 am, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by Milt
Post by Dank 110100100
Post by Phlip
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities
hadn't so ferociously persecuted weed smokers.
You... you mean prohibition of softer drugs is a stepping stone
to prohibition of harder drugs??
Who'da thought it??
Since marijuana is just as illegal as crystal meth, potheads who
buy marijuana on the black market are likely to encounter meth
along the way. If marijuana were legally sold in retail stores,
users would be unlikely to encounter meth or meth users, no more
than beer drinkers do.
It would depend on the cost. People aren't buying meth, so much as
making it themselves.
That's a new thing.
Where have you been?
People have been blowing themselves up in trailer parks for about the
last 20 years making this shit. The method in this article is just the
latest iteration.
It's the new thing I was referring to. Before that, they were making
larger batches which was made more difficult by limits on how many cold
medicine packages you could purchase at once.
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by Milt
As this article shows, anyone with some cold medicine with
pseudoephedrine and a couple of household cleaners can whip up a
batch in a soda bottle.
My point is, I don't actually think the pot laws are causing this
problem. It's just an example that, if people are going to get
high, there isn't a damn thing anyone in authority can do to stop
them.
Is that true? Public policy can't push things in one direction or
another?
Not when it comes to people who decide they want to destroy themselves
with drugs.
This stuff is so addictive, I'm not sure that it's a choice for many
after one time.
It's incredibly cheap, and incredibly available.
Ironically, marijuana is good at alleviating withdrawal symptoms.
Getting high is good at dealing with symptoms of withdrawal from
drug use?
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
Public policy that give such people hope might work, but the people who
support continued prohibition are against that, as well.
Really, how are they against "hope"?
I noticed today that the Argentian Supreme Court ruled that it is
unconstitutional to punish people for private pot use. Hopefully, a
bunch of lawyers here are considering taking that tack in weed cases that
come up.
You think you can cite the Argentine court?
Dank 110100100
2009-08-28 07:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milt
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by Milt
My point is, I don't actually think the pot laws are causing this
problem. It's just an example that, if people are going to get high,
there isn't a damn thing anyone in authority can do to stop them.
Is that true? Public policy can't push things in one direction or
another?
Not when it comes to people who decide they want to destroy themselves
with drugs.
Marijuana was just about the only drug NOT found in Michael Jackson's
system when he died. Michael came from a generation where marijuana
was perceived as a 'narcotic,' and pills were always 'medicine.'
Phlip
2009-08-27 02:50:47 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 26, 11:48 am, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by Milt
My point is, I don't actually think the pot laws are causing this
problem. It's just an example that, if people are going to get high,
there isn't a damn thing anyone in authority can do to stop them.
Is that true? Public policy can't push things in one direction or
another?
Can you explain why children have an easier time accessing cannabis &
hard drugs than tobacco or alcohol? Apparently the public policy of
civil controls and licensed distribution works better than
criminalization.

Prohibition is the form of public policy that is least effective.

What you resist persists.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
2009-08-27 06:37:34 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 26, 11:48 am, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by Milt
My point is, I don't actually think the pot laws are causing this
problem. It's just an example that, if people are going to get high,
there isn't a damn thing anyone in authority can do to stop them.
Is that true? Public policy can't push things in one direction or
another?
Can you explain why children have an easier time accessing cannabis &
hard drugs than tobacco or alcohol?
Is that true?
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
2009-08-25 23:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.
Really? So people risk going to prison for 20 years for meth
because they might otherwise be slapped on the wrist for smoking
some pot? That seems unlikley to me.
5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
2009-08-26 00:27:11 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:15:18 -0100, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.
Really? So people risk going to prison for 20 years for meth
because they might otherwise be slapped on the wrist for smoking
some pot? That seems unlikley to me.
Remember when they were making pot use dangerous through prohibative
fines, jail sentences, and letting paraquat-laced weed into the
country back in the 70's and 80's? People turned to other drugs, and
meth, until then just a minor nuisance, was one of them.
Steve
2009-08-26 00:30:44 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:27:11 -0700, "5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09"
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:15:18 -0100, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.
Really? So people risk going to prison for 20 years for meth
because they might otherwise be slapped on the wrist for smoking
some pot? That seems unlikley to me.
Remember when they were making pot use dangerous through prohibative
fines, jail sentences, and letting paraquat-laced weed into the
country back in the 70's and 80's? People turned to other drugs, and
meth, until then just a minor nuisance, was one of them.
Zepp is probably only speaking for himself..

--
Lost your job?

Don't blame me, I voted Republican.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
2009-08-26 16:59:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:15:18 -0100, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius
Post by Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.
Really? So people risk going to prison for 20 years for meth
because they might otherwise be slapped on the wrist for smoking
some pot? That seems unlikley to me.
Remember when they were making pot use dangerous through prohibative
fines, jail sentences, and letting paraquat-laced weed into the
country back in the 70's and 80's? People turned to other drugs, and
meth, until then just a minor nuisance, was one of them.
So you think that people were concerned about the quality of the
marijuana they could buy, perhaps it was adulterated with paraquat,
so they took up crack and meth and black tar heroin? Are you
insane?
--
I heard Clinton buried a time capsule at his new presidential
library sized like an overseas shipping container filled with stuff
he didn't want anyone to find till long after his death, the real
deed to Whitewater, the envelope for the Tyson Foods chicken
payoffs, the real gun he used to whack Foster, the keys to the
Exocet missile he took Ron Brown out with, copies of another few
thousand illegally acquired FBI files on his enemies, tickets to
Tahiti from the White House Travel Office, a few more soiled
dresses, a couple of cases of well chewed Cuban cigars, and the
unabridged version of his autobiography. That last one was touch
and go just getting the bugger in.
Milt
2009-08-26 17:12:27 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 25, 11:15 am, "5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09"
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
Post by Milt
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/shake-and-bake-meth-formula-skirts-a...
drug-laws/
New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug
laws
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No. Cal.
boonies: "Bicycle Meth".  Stuff is made on bicycles.  Few fumes, and
nearly impossible for LE to spot.  I had been wondering how that was
possible]
JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS
AP News
Aug 24, 2009 20:26 EST
This is the new formula for methamphetamine: a two-liter soda bottle, a
few handfuls of cold pills and some noxious chemicals. Shake the bottle
and the volatile reaction produces one of the world's most addictive
drugs.
Only a few years ago, making meth required an elaborate lab — with filthy
containers simmering over open flames, cans of flammable liquids and
hundreds of pills. The process gave off foul odors, sometimes sparked
explosions and was so hard to conceal that dealers often "cooked" their
drugs in rural areas.
But now drug users are making their own meth in small batches using a
faster, cheaper and much simpler method with ingredients that can be
carried in a knapsack and mixed on the run. The "shake-and-bake" approach
has become popular because it requires a relatively small number of pills
of the decongestant pseudoephedrine — an amount easily obtained under
even the toughest anti-meth laws that have been adopted across the nation
to restrict large purchases of some cold medication.
"Somebody somewhere said 'Wait this requires a lot less pseudoephedrine,
and I can fly under the radar,'" said Mark Woodward, spokesman for the
Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control.
An Associated Press review of lab seizures and interviews with state and
federal law enforcement agents found that the new method is rapidly
spreading across the nation's midsection and is contributing to a spike
in the number of meth cases after years of declining arrests.
The new formula does away with the clutter of typical meth labs, and it
can turn the back seat of a car or a bathroom stall into a makeshift drug
factory. Some addicts have even made the drug while driving.
The pills are crushed, combined with some common household chemicals and
then shaken in the soda bottle. No flame is required.
Using the new formula, batches of meth are much smaller but just as
dangerous as the old system, which sometimes produces powerful
explosions, touches off intense fires and releases drug ingredients that
must be handled as toxic waste.
"If there is any oxygen at all in the bottle, it has a propensity to make
a giant fireball," said Sgt. Jason Clark of the Missouri State Highway
Patrol's Division of Drug and Crime Control. "You're not dealing with
rocket scientists here anyway. If they get unlucky at all, it can have a
very devastating reaction."
One little mistake, such as unscrewing the bottle cap too fast, can
result in a huge blast, and police in Alabama, Oklahoma and other states
have linked dozens of flash fires this year — some of them fatal — to
meth manufacturing.
"Every meth recipe is dangerous, but in this one, if you don't shake it
just right, you can build up too much pressure, and the container can
pop," Woodward said.
When fire broke out in older labs, "it was usually on a stove in a back
room or garage and people would just run, but when these things pop, you
see more extreme burns because they are holding it. There are more fires
and more burns because of the close proximity, whether it's on a couch or
driving down the road."
After the chemical reaction, what's left is a crystalline powder that
users smoke, snort or inject. They often discard the bottle, which now
contains a poisonous brown and white sludge. Dozens of reports describe
toxic bottles strewn along highways and rural roads in states with the
worst meth problems.
The do-it-yourself method creates just enough meth for a few hits,
allowing users to make their own doses instead of buying mass-produced
drugs from a dealer.
"It simplified the process so much that everybody's making their own
dope," said Kevin Williams, sheriff of Marion County, Ala., about 80
miles west of Birmingham. "It can be your next-door neighbor doing it. It
can be one of your family members living downstairs in the basement."
A typical meth lab would normally take days to generate a full-size batch
of meth, which would require a heat source and dozens, maybe hundreds, of
boxes of cold pills.
But because the new method uses far less pseudoephedrine, small-time
users are able to make the drug in spite of a federal law that bars
customers from buying more than 9 grams — roughly 300 pills — a month.
The federal government and dozens of states adopted restrictions on
pseudoephedrine in 2005, and the number of lab busts fell dramatically.
The total number of clandestine meth lab incidents reported to the Drug
Enforcement Administration fell from almost 17,400 in 2003 to just 7,347
in 2006.
But the number of busts has begun to climb again, and some authorities
blame the shake-and-bake method for renewing meth activity.
_ At least 10 states reported increases in meth lab seizures or meth-
related arrests from 2007 to 2008.
_ The Mississippi State Crime Lab participated in 457 meth incidents
through May 31, up from 122 for the same period a year ago — a nearly 275
percent increase.
_ Several states, such as Oklahoma and Tennessee, are on pace this year
to double the number of labs busted in 2008. The director of Tennessee's
meth task force said the pace of lab busts in his state is projected to
be about 1,300 for 2009, compared with 815 for all of 2008.
Some states lack a central database to monitor cold medicine sales, so
meth cooks circumvent state laws by pill shopping in multiple cities and
states — a practice known as "smurfing" that allows them to stay under
restrictions placed on sales.
Traci Fruit, a special agent with the Kansas Bureau of Investigation,
said law enforcement officials are becoming increasingly frustrated
because there's no way to tell who is buying what "unless we go from
store to store ourselves and pull up the records."
Historically, rural states like Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas have been
hotbeds for meth use because an important ingredient in the traditional
method, anhydrous ammonia, was easily available from tanks on farms where
it's used as a fertilizer. But the new formula does not need anhydrous
ammonia and instead uses ammonium nitrate, a compound easily found in
instant cold packs that can be purchased at any drug store.
Data from the Justice Department and the DEA data suggest the method
could only be in its early stages, and "shake-and-bake" labs have
recently been discovered as far north as Indiana and as far east as West
Virginia.
States surveyed by the AP also included: Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas,
Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Kansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama,
Georgia, New Mexico, Arizona and California.
While many law enforcement agencies are just learning how to spot the new
labs, other states are rushing to close loopholes in laws limiting the
sale of meth ingredients.
Mississippi Sen. Sid Albritton, said that state's law — modeled after
Oklahoma's — forces buyers to show identification and makes stores keep a
log of cold medicine sales. But the problem in Mississippi is lack of
technology to instantly log purchases in a central database.
"You have to understand going in that drugs are an evolutionary process,"
said Albritton, a former police detective and narcotics officer. "The day
after we pass a law, they are going to look for ways to circumvent that."
So, why do we continue paying hundreds of billions of dollars a year
on Prohibition again?
I get pissed off when I have to go to the pharmacy  and have them scan
my driver's license just to buy over the counter allergy medication.
Now, I suppose, if I decide to buy a two-liter coke along with it,
they'll follow me home and arrest me?
There really is no drug war. We're at war with ourselves...
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.  
You're right: they are fighting human nature.  Prohibition doesn't
work at best, and usually just makes things far worse.
Well, what makes it dumber is that there is already an alternative out
there, called phenylproponalamine (PPA), that actually works better
than pseudoephedrine for allergies, and doesn't make for a good meth
mixture, according to scientists. But PPA was pulled off the market
about 8-9 years ago, because about a half dozen people died from a
stroke, and it was cited as a cause.

So, basically, we have a drug on the market that doesn't work as well
as another drug that has been kept off the market because a handful of
people died while taking it, but the drug that is supposedly "safer"
is causing an epidemic and killing lots of people another way.

If that's not proof that our drug laws are asinine on many levels...
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
2009-08-26 20:19:24 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 25, 11:15 am, "5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09"
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
You're right: they are fighting human nature. Prohibition doesn't
work at best, and usually just makes things far worse.
Well, what makes it dumber is that there is already an alternative out
there, called phenylproponalamine (PPA), that actually works better
than pseudoephedrine for allergies, and doesn't make for a good meth
mixture, according to scientists. But PPA was pulled off the market
about 8-9 years ago, because about a half dozen people died from a
stroke, and it was cited as a cause.
So, basically, we have a drug on the market that doesn't work as well
as another drug that has been kept off the market because a handful of
people died while taking it, but the drug that is supposedly "safer"
is causing an epidemic and killing lots of people another way.
If that's not proof that our drug laws are asinine on many levels...
So you think that innocent people should die because some crank
heads want their meth?
--
I heard Clinton buried a time capsule at his new presidental
library sized like an overseas shipping container filled with stuff
he didn't want anyone to find till long after his death, the real
deed to Whitewater, the envelope for the Tyson Foods chicken
payoffs, the real gun he used to whack Foster, the keys to the
Exocet missile he took Ron Brown out with, copies of another few
thousand illegally acquired FBI files on his enemies, tickets to
Tahiti from the White House Travel Office, a few more soiled
dresses, a couple of cases of well chewed Cuban cigars, and the
unabridged version of his autobiography. That last one was touch
and go just getting the bugger in.
Phlip
2009-08-27 03:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milt
Well, what makes it dumber is that there is already an alternative out
there, called phenylproponalamine (PPA), that actually works better
than pseudoephedrine for allergies, and doesn't make for a good meth
mixture, according to scientists. But PPA was pulled off the market
about 8-9 years ago, because about a half dozen people died from a
stroke, and it was cited as a cause.
There's a drug approved for high blood pressure, in the 1960s, but
doctors discovered a side-effect.

It turns the physical addiction for tobacco off like a light switch.

The FDA immediately banned it, of course.
5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
2009-08-27 04:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Post by Milt
Well, what makes it dumber is that there is already an alternative out
there, called phenylproponalamine (PPA), that actually works better
than pseudoephedrine for allergies, and doesn't make for a good meth
mixture, according to scientists. But PPA was pulled off the market
about 8-9 years ago, because about a half dozen people died from a
stroke, and it was cited as a cause.
There's a drug approved for high blood pressure, in the 1960s, but
doctors discovered a side-effect.
It turns the physical addiction for tobacco off like a light switch.
The FDA immediately banned it, of course.
Sounds like an urban legend/conspiracy theory.

What was the name of the drug?
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
2009-08-27 07:11:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
Post by Phlip
Post by Milt
Well, what makes it dumber is that there is already an alternative out
there, called phenylproponalamine (PPA), that actually works better
than pseudoephedrine for allergies, and doesn't make for a good meth
mixture, according to scientists. But PPA was pulled off the market
about 8-9 years ago, because about a half dozen people died from a
stroke, and it was cited as a cause.
There's a drug approved for high blood pressure, in the 1960s, but
doctors discovered a side-effect.
It turns the physical addiction for tobacco off like a light switch.
The FDA immediately banned it, of course.
Sounds like an urban legend/conspiracy theory.
Oh please, call it what it really is, a *lie*.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
2009-08-27 05:01:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Post by Milt
Well, what makes it dumber is that there is already an alternative out
there, called phenylproponalamine (PPA), that actually works better
than pseudoephedrine for allergies, and doesn't make for a good meth
mixture, according to scientists. But PPA was pulled off the market
about 8-9 years ago, because about a half dozen people died from a
stroke, and it was cited as a cause.
There's a drug approved for high blood pressure, in the 1960s, but
doctors discovered a side-effect.
It turns the physical addiction for tobacco off like a light switch.
The FDA immediately banned it, of course.
Cite. No, better: Kook Alert.
--
I heard Clinton buried a time capsule at his new presidental
library sized like an overseas shipping container filled with stuff
he didn't want anyone to find till long after his death, the real
deed to Whitewater, the envelope for the Tyson Foods chicken
payoffs, the real gun he used to whack Foster, the keys to the
Exocet missile he took Ron Brown out with, copies of another few
thousand illegally acquired FBI files on his enemies, tickets to
Tahiti from the White House Travel Office, a few more soiled
dresses, a couple of cases of well chewed Cuban cigars, and the
unabridged version of his autobiography. That last one was touch
and go just getting the bugger in.
Billary/2009
2009-08-27 03:01:46 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 25, 2:15 pm, "5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09"
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
Post by Milt
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/shake-and-bake-meth-formula-skirts-a...
drug-laws/
New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug
laws
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No. Cal.
boonies: "Bicycle Meth".  Stuff is made on bicycles.  Few fumes, and
nearly impossible for LE to spot.  I had been wondering how that was
possible]
JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS
AP News
Aug 24, 2009 20:26 EST
This is the new formula for methamphetamine: a two-liter soda bottle, a
few handfuls of cold pills and some noxious chemicals. Shake the bottle
and the volatile reaction produces one of the world's most addictive
drugs.
Only a few years ago, making meth required an elaborate lab — with filthy
containers simmering over open flames, cans of flammable liquids and
hundreds of pills. The process gave off foul odors, sometimes sparked
explosions and was so hard to conceal that dealers often "cooked" their
drugs in rural areas.
But now drug users are making their own meth in small batches using a
faster, cheaper and much simpler method with ingredients that can be
carried in a knapsack and mixed on the run. The "shake-and-bake" approach
has become popular because it requires a relatively small number of pills
of the decongestant pseudoephedrine — an amount easily obtained under
even the toughest anti-meth laws that have been adopted across the nation
to restrict large purchases of some cold medication.
"Somebody somewhere said 'Wait this requires a lot less pseudoephedrine,
and I can fly under the radar,'" said Mark Woodward, spokesman for the
Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control.
An Associated Press review of lab seizures and interviews with state and
federal law enforcement agents found that the new method is rapidly
spreading across the nation's midsection and is contributing to a spike
in the number of meth cases after years of declining arrests.
The new formula does away with the clutter of typical meth labs, and it
can turn the back seat of a car or a bathroom stall into a makeshift drug
factory. Some addicts have even made the drug while driving.
The pills are crushed, combined with some common household chemicals and
then shaken in the soda bottle. No flame is required.
Using the new formula, batches of meth are much smaller but just as
dangerous as the old system, which sometimes produces powerful
explosions, touches off intense fires and releases drug ingredients that
must be handled as toxic waste.
"If there is any oxygen at all in the bottle, it has a propensity to make
a giant fireball," said Sgt. Jason Clark of the Missouri State Highway
Patrol's Division of Drug and Crime Control. "You're not dealing with
rocket scientists here anyway. If they get unlucky at all, it can have a
very devastating reaction."
One little mistake, such as unscrewing the bottle cap too fast, can
result in a huge blast, and police in Alabama, Oklahoma and other states
have linked dozens of flash fires this year — some of them fatal — to
meth manufacturing.
"Every meth recipe is dangerous, but in this one, if you don't shake it
just right, you can build up too much pressure, and the container can
pop," Woodward said.
When fire broke out in older labs, "it was usually on a stove in a back
room or garage and people would just run, but when these things pop, you
see more extreme burns because they are holding it. There are more fires
and more burns because of the close proximity, whether it's on a couch or
driving down the road."
After the chemical reaction, what's left is a crystalline powder that
users smoke, snort or inject. They often discard the bottle, which now
contains a poisonous brown and white sludge. Dozens of reports describe
toxic bottles strewn along highways and rural roads in states with the
worst meth problems.
The do-it-yourself method creates just enough meth for a few hits,
allowing users to make their own doses instead of buying mass-produced
drugs from a dealer.
"It simplified the process so much that everybody's making their own
dope," said Kevin Williams, sheriff of Marion County, Ala., about 80
miles west of Birmingham. "It can be your next-door neighbor doing it. It
can be one of your family members living downstairs in the basement."
A typical meth lab would normally take days to generate a full-size batch
of meth, which would require a heat source and dozens, maybe hundreds, of
boxes of cold pills.
But because the new method uses far less pseudoephedrine, small-time
users are able to make the drug in spite of a federal law that bars
customers from buying more than 9 grams — roughly 300 pills — a month.
The federal government and dozens of states adopted restrictions on
pseudoephedrine in 2005, and the number of lab busts fell dramatically.
The total number of clandestine meth lab incidents reported to the Drug
Enforcement Administration fell from almost 17,400 in 2003 to just 7,347
in 2006.
But the number of busts has begun to climb again, and some authorities
blame the shake-and-bake method for renewing meth activity.
_ At least 10 states reported increases in meth lab seizures or meth-
related arrests from 2007 to 2008.
_ The Mississippi State Crime Lab participated in 457 meth incidents
through May 31, up from 122 for the same period a year ago — a nearly 275
percent increase.
_ Several states, such as Oklahoma and Tennessee, are on pace this year
to double the number of labs busted in 2008. The director of Tennessee's
meth task force said the pace of lab busts in his state is projected to
be about 1,300 for 2009, compared with 815 for all of 2008.
Some states lack a central database to monitor cold medicine sales, so
meth cooks circumvent state laws by pill shopping in multiple cities and
states — a practice known as "smurfing" that allows them to stay under
restrictions placed on sales.
Traci Fruit, a special agent with the Kansas Bureau of Investigation,
said law enforcement officials are becoming increasingly frustrated
because there's no way to tell who is buying what "unless we go from
store to store ourselves and pull up the records."
Historically, rural states like Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas have been
hotbeds for meth use because an important ingredient in the traditional
method, anhydrous ammonia, was easily available from tanks on farms where
it's used as a fertilizer. But the new formula does not need anhydrous
ammonia and instead uses ammonium nitrate, a compound easily found in
instant cold packs that can be purchased at any drug store.
Data from the Justice Department and the DEA data suggest the method
could only be in its early stages, and "shake-and-bake" labs have
recently been discovered as far north as Indiana and as far east as West
Virginia.
States surveyed by the AP also included: Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas,
Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Kansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama,
Georgia, New Mexico, Arizona and California.
While many law enforcement agencies are just learning how to spot the new
labs, other states are rushing to close loopholes in laws limiting the
sale of meth ingredients.
Mississippi Sen. Sid Albritton, said that state's law — modeled after
Oklahoma's — forces buyers to show identification and makes stores keep a
log of cold medicine sales. But the problem in Mississippi is lack of
technology to instantly log purchases in a central database.
"You have to understand going in that drugs are an evolutionary process,"
said Albritton, a former police detective and narcotics officer. "The day
after we pass a law, they are going to look for ways to circumvent that."
So, why do we continue paying hundreds of billions of dollars a year
on Prohibition again?
I get pissed off when I have to go to the pharmacy  and have them scan
my driver's license just to buy over the counter allergy medication.
Now, I suppose, if I decide to buy a two-liter coke along with it,
they'll follow me home and arrest me?
There really is no drug war. We're at war with ourselves...
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.  
You're right: they are fighting human nature.  Prohibition doesn't
work at best, and usually just makes things far worse.
People will do anything for the adrenaline rush. Adrenaline makes us
ALIVE!!
Gandalf Grey
2009-08-27 03:52:03 UTC
Permalink
"RightWingShill/2009" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:3d74792e-02dc-48df-9742-***@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 25, 2:15 pm, "5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09"
Post by 5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
Post by Milt
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/shake-and-bake-meth-formula-skirts-a...
drug-laws/
New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug
laws
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No. Cal.
boonies: "Bicycle Meth". Stuff is made on bicycles. Few fumes, and
nearly impossible for LE to spot. I had been wondering how that was
possible]
JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS
AP News
Aug 24, 2009 20:26 EST
This is the new formula for methamphetamine: a two-liter soda bottle, a
few handfuls of cold pills and some noxious chemicals. Shake the bottle
and the volatile reaction produces one of the world's most addictive
drugs.
Only a few years ago, making meth required an elaborate lab — with filthy
containers simmering over open flames, cans of flammable liquids and
hundreds of pills. The process gave off foul odors, sometimes sparked
explosions and was so hard to conceal that dealers often "cooked" their
drugs in rural areas.
But now drug users are making their own meth in small batches using a
faster, cheaper and much simpler method with ingredients that can be
carried in a knapsack and mixed on the run. The "shake-and-bake" approach
has become popular because it requires a relatively small number of pills
of the decongestant pseudoephedrine — an amount easily obtained under
even the toughest anti-meth laws that have been adopted across the nation
to restrict large purchases of some cold medication.
"Somebody somewhere said 'Wait this requires a lot less
pseudoephedrine,
and I can fly under the radar,'" said Mark Woodward, spokesman for the
Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control.
An Associated Press review of lab seizures and interviews with state and
federal law enforcement agents found that the new method is rapidly
spreading across the nation's midsection and is contributing to a spike
in the number of meth cases after years of declining arrests.
The new formula does away with the clutter of typical meth labs, and it
can turn the back seat of a car or a bathroom stall into a makeshift drug
factory. Some addicts have even made the drug while driving.
The pills are crushed, combined with some common household chemicals and
then shaken in the soda bottle. No flame is required.
Using the new formula, batches of meth are much smaller but just as
dangerous as the old system, which sometimes produces powerful
explosions, touches off intense fires and releases drug ingredients that
must be handled as toxic waste.
"If there is any oxygen at all in the bottle, it has a propensity to make
a giant fireball," said Sgt. Jason Clark of the Missouri State Highway
Patrol's Division of Drug and Crime Control. "You're not dealing with
rocket scientists here anyway. If they get unlucky at all, it can have a
very devastating reaction."
One little mistake, such as unscrewing the bottle cap too fast, can
result in a huge blast, and police in Alabama, Oklahoma and other states
have linked dozens of flash fires this year — some of them fatal — to
meth manufacturing.
"Every meth recipe is dangerous, but in this one, if you don't shake it
just right, you can build up too much pressure, and the container can
pop," Woodward said.
When fire broke out in older labs, "it was usually on a stove in a back
room or garage and people would just run, but when these things pop, you
see more extreme burns because they are holding it. There are more fires
and more burns because of the close proximity, whether it's on a couch or
driving down the road."
After the chemical reaction, what's left is a crystalline powder that
users smoke, snort or inject. They often discard the bottle, which now
contains a poisonous brown and white sludge. Dozens of reports describe
toxic bottles strewn along highways and rural roads in states with the
worst meth problems.
The do-it-yourself method creates just enough meth for a few hits,
allowing users to make their own doses instead of buying mass-produced
drugs from a dealer.
"It simplified the process so much that everybody's making their own
dope," said Kevin Williams, sheriff of Marion County, Ala., about 80
miles west of Birmingham. "It can be your next-door neighbor doing it. It
can be one of your family members living downstairs in the basement."
A typical meth lab would normally take days to generate a full-size batch
of meth, which would require a heat source and dozens, maybe hundreds, of
boxes of cold pills.
But because the new method uses far less pseudoephedrine, small-time
users are able to make the drug in spite of a federal law that bars
customers from buying more than 9 grams — roughly 300 pills — a month.
The federal government and dozens of states adopted restrictions on
pseudoephedrine in 2005, and the number of lab busts fell dramatically.
The total number of clandestine meth lab incidents reported to the Drug
Enforcement Administration fell from almost 17,400 in 2003 to just 7,347
in 2006.
But the number of busts has begun to climb again, and some authorities
blame the shake-and-bake method for renewing meth activity.
_ At least 10 states reported increases in meth lab seizures or meth-
related arrests from 2007 to 2008.
_ The Mississippi State Crime Lab participated in 457 meth incidents
through May 31, up from 122 for the same period a year ago — a nearly 275
percent increase.
_ Several states, such as Oklahoma and Tennessee, are on pace this year
to double the number of labs busted in 2008. The director of Tennessee's
meth task force said the pace of lab busts in his state is projected to
be about 1,300 for 2009, compared with 815 for all of 2008.
Some states lack a central database to monitor cold medicine sales, so
meth cooks circumvent state laws by pill shopping in multiple cities and
states — a practice known as "smurfing" that allows them to stay under
restrictions placed on sales.
Traci Fruit, a special agent with the Kansas Bureau of Investigation,
said law enforcement officials are becoming increasingly frustrated
because there's no way to tell who is buying what "unless we go from
store to store ourselves and pull up the records."
Historically, rural states like Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas have been
hotbeds for meth use because an important ingredient in the traditional
method, anhydrous ammonia, was easily available from tanks on farms where
it's used as a fertilizer. But the new formula does not need anhydrous
ammonia and instead uses ammonium nitrate, a compound easily found in
instant cold packs that can be purchased at any drug store.
Data from the Justice Department and the DEA data suggest the method
could only be in its early stages, and "shake-and-bake" labs have
recently been discovered as far north as Indiana and as far east as West
Virginia.
States surveyed by the AP also included: Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas,
Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Kansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama,
Georgia, New Mexico, Arizona and California.
While many law enforcement agencies are just learning how to spot the new
labs, other states are rushing to close loopholes in laws limiting the
sale of meth ingredients.
Mississippi Sen. Sid Albritton, said that state's law — modeled after
Oklahoma's — forces buyers to show identification and makes stores keep a
log of cold medicine sales. But the problem in Mississippi is lack of
technology to instantly log purchases in a central database.
"You have to understand going in that drugs are an evolutionary process,"
said Albritton, a former police detective and narcotics officer. "The day
after we pass a law, they are going to look for ways to circumvent that."
So, why do we continue paying hundreds of billions of dollars a year
on Prohibition again?
I get pissed off when I have to go to the pharmacy and have them scan
my driver's license just to buy over the counter allergy medication.
Now, I suppose, if I decide to buy a two-liter coke along with it,
they'll follow me home and arrest me?
There really is no drug war. We're at war with ourselves...
I doubt meth would ever have caught on if the authorities hadn't so
ferociously persecuted weed smokers.
You're right: they are fighting human nature. Prohibition doesn't
work at best, and usually just makes things far worse.
^ People will do anything for the adrenaline rush. Adrenaline makes us
ALIVE!!

Just methheads like you, Shill. And, by the way, nothing could make you
alive. Your soul died long ago.
Billary/2009
2009-08-27 03:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milt
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/shake-and-bake-meth-formula-skirts-a...
drug-laws/
New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug
laws
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No. Cal.
boonies: "Bicycle Meth".  Stuff is made on bicycles.  Few fumes, and
nearly impossible for LE to spot.  I had been wondering how that was
possible]
JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS
AP News
Aug 24, 2009 20:26 EST
This is the new formula for methamphetamine: a two-liter soda bottle, a
few handfuls of cold pills and some noxious chemicals. Shake the bottle
and the volatile reaction produces one of the world's most addictive
drugs.
Only a few years ago, making meth required an elaborate lab — with filthy
containers simmering over open flames, cans of flammable liquids and
hundreds of pills. The process gave off foul odors, sometimes sparked
explosions and was so hard to conceal that dealers often "cooked" their
drugs in rural areas.
But now drug users are making their own meth in small batches using a
faster, cheaper and much simpler method with ingredients that can be
carried in a knapsack and mixed on the run. The "shake-and-bake" approach
has become popular because it requires a relatively small number of pills
of the decongestant pseudoephedrine — an amount easily obtained under
even the toughest anti-meth laws that have been adopted across the nation
to restrict large purchases of some cold medication.
"Somebody somewhere said 'Wait this requires a lot less pseudoephedrine,
and I can fly under the radar,'" said Mark Woodward, spokesman for the
Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control.
An Associated Press review of lab seizures and interviews with state and
federal law enforcement agents found that the new method is rapidly
spreading across the nation's midsection and is contributing to a spike
in the number of meth cases after years of declining arrests.
The new formula does away with the clutter of typical meth labs, and it
can turn the back seat of a car or a bathroom stall into a makeshift drug
factory. Some addicts have even made the drug while driving.
The pills are crushed, combined with some common household chemicals and
then shaken in the soda bottle. No flame is required.
Using the new formula, batches of meth are much smaller but just as
dangerous as the old system, which sometimes produces powerful
explosions, touches off intense fires and releases drug ingredients that
must be handled as toxic waste.
"If there is any oxygen at all in the bottle, it has a propensity to make
a giant fireball," said Sgt. Jason Clark of the Missouri State Highway
Patrol's Division of Drug and Crime Control. "You're not dealing with
rocket scientists here anyway. If they get unlucky at all, it can have a
very devastating reaction."
One little mistake, such as unscrewing the bottle cap too fast, can
result in a huge blast, and police in Alabama, Oklahoma and other states
have linked dozens of flash fires this year — some of them fatal — to
meth manufacturing.
"Every meth recipe is dangerous, but in this one, if you don't shake it
just right, you can build up too much pressure, and the container can
pop," Woodward said.
When fire broke out in older labs, "it was usually on a stove in a back
room or garage and people would just run, but when these things pop, you
see more extreme burns because they are holding it. There are more fires
and more burns because of the close proximity, whether it's on a couch or
driving down the road."
After the chemical reaction, what's left is a crystalline powder that
users smoke, snort or inject. They often discard the bottle, which now
contains a poisonous brown and white sludge. Dozens of reports describe
toxic bottles strewn along highways and rural roads in states with the
worst meth problems.
The do-it-yourself method creates just enough meth for a few hits,
allowing users to make their own doses instead of buying mass-produced
drugs from a dealer.
"It simplified the process so much that everybody's making their own
dope," said Kevin Williams, sheriff of Marion County, Ala., about 80
miles west of Birmingham. "It can be your next-door neighbor doing it. It
can be one of your family members living downstairs in the basement."
A typical meth lab would normally take days to generate a full-size batch
of meth, which would require a heat source and dozens, maybe hundreds, of
boxes of cold pills.
But because the new method uses far less pseudoephedrine, small-time
users are able to make the drug in spite of a federal law that bars
customers from buying more than 9 grams — roughly 300 pills — a month.
The federal government and dozens of states adopted restrictions on
pseudoephedrine in 2005, and the number of lab busts fell dramatically.
The total number of clandestine meth lab incidents reported to the Drug
Enforcement Administration fell from almost 17,400 in 2003 to just 7,347
in 2006.
But the number of busts has begun to climb again, and some authorities
blame the shake-and-bake method for renewing meth activity.
_ At least 10 states reported increases in meth lab seizures or meth-
related arrests from 2007 to 2008.
_ The Mississippi State Crime Lab participated in 457 meth incidents
through May 31, up from 122 for the same period a year ago — a nearly 275
percent increase.
_ Several states, such as Oklahoma and Tennessee, are on pace this year
to double the number of labs busted in 2008. The director of Tennessee's
meth task force said the pace of lab busts in his state is projected to
be about 1,300 for 2009, compared with 815 for all of 2008.
Some states lack a central database to monitor cold medicine sales, so
meth cooks circumvent state laws by pill shopping in multiple cities and
states — a practice known as "smurfing" that allows them to stay under
restrictions placed on sales.
Traci Fruit, a special agent with the Kansas Bureau of Investigation,
said law enforcement officials are becoming increasingly frustrated
because there's no way to tell who is buying what "unless we go from
store to store ourselves and pull up the records."
Historically, rural states like Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas have been
hotbeds for meth use because an important ingredient in the traditional
method, anhydrous ammonia, was easily available from tanks on farms where
it's used as a fertilizer. But the new formula does not need anhydrous
ammonia and instead uses ammonium nitrate, a compound easily found in
instant cold packs that can be purchased at any drug store.
Data from the Justice Department and the DEA data suggest the method
could only be in its early stages, and "shake-and-bake" labs have
recently been discovered as far north as Indiana and as far east as West
Virginia.
States surveyed by the AP also included: Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas,
Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Kansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama,
Georgia, New Mexico, Arizona and California.
While many law enforcement agencies are just learning how to spot the new
labs, other states are rushing to close loopholes in laws limiting the
sale of meth ingredients.
Mississippi Sen. Sid Albritton, said that state's law — modeled after
Oklahoma's — forces buyers to show identification and makes stores keep a
log of cold medicine sales. But the problem in Mississippi is lack of
technology to instantly log purchases in a central database.
"You have to understand going in that drugs are an evolutionary process,"
said Albritton, a former police detective and narcotics officer. "The day
after we pass a law, they are going to look for ways to circumvent that."
So, why do we continue paying hundreds of billions of dollars a year
on Prohibition again?
I get pissed off when I have to go to the pharmacy  and have them scan
my driver's license just to buy over the counter allergy medication.
Now, I suppose, if I decide to buy a two-liter coke along with it,
they'll follow me home and arrest me?
There really is no drug war. We're at war with ourselves...
Hey Milty is it true, did you really have sex with a quadriplegic
girl? Man that's about as low as as guy can go. You are one messed up
crank
Gandalf Grey
2009-08-27 03:51:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milt
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/shake-and-bake-meth-formula-skirts-a...
drug-laws/
New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug
laws
[This explains a phenomenon I've been hearing about here in the No. Cal.
boonies: "Bicycle Meth". Stuff is made on bicycles. Few fumes, and
nearly impossible for LE to spot. I had been wondering how that was
possible]
JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS
AP News
Aug 24, 2009 20:26 EST
This is the new formula for methamphetamine: a two-liter soda bottle, a
few handfuls of cold pills and some noxious chemicals. Shake the bottle
and the volatile reaction produces one of the world's most addictive
drugs.
Only a few years ago, making meth required an elaborate lab — with
filthy
containers simmering over open flames, cans of flammable liquids and
hundreds of pills. The process gave off foul odors, sometimes sparked
explosions and was so hard to conceal that dealers often "cooked" their
drugs in rural areas.
But now drug users are making their own meth in small batches using a
faster, cheaper and much simpler method with ingredients that can be
carried in a knapsack and mixed on the run. The "shake-and-bake" approach
has become popular because it requires a relatively small number of pills
of the decongestant pseudoephedrine — an amount easily obtained under
even the toughest anti-meth laws that have been adopted across the nation
to restrict large purchases of some cold medication.
"Somebody somewhere said 'Wait this requires a lot less pseudoephedrine,
and I can fly under the radar,'" said Mark Woodward, spokesman for the
Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control.
An Associated Press review of lab seizures and interviews with state and
federal law enforcement agents found that the new method is rapidly
spreading across the nation's midsection and is contributing to a spike
in the number of meth cases after years of declining arrests.
The new formula does away with the clutter of typical meth labs, and it
can turn the back seat of a car or a bathroom stall into a makeshift drug
factory. Some addicts have even made the drug while driving.
The pills are crushed, combined with some common household chemicals and
then shaken in the soda bottle. No flame is required.
Using the new formula, batches of meth are much smaller but just as
dangerous as the old system, which sometimes produces powerful
explosions, touches off intense fires and releases drug ingredients that
must be handled as toxic waste.
"If there is any oxygen at all in the bottle, it has a propensity to make
a giant fireball," said Sgt. Jason Clark of the Missouri State Highway
Patrol's Division of Drug and Crime Control. "You're not dealing with
rocket scientists here anyway. If they get unlucky at all, it can have a
very devastating reaction."
One little mistake, such as unscrewing the bottle cap too fast, can
result in a huge blast, and police in Alabama, Oklahoma and other states
have linked dozens of flash fires this year — some of them fatal — to
meth manufacturing.
"Every meth recipe is dangerous, but in this one, if you don't shake it
just right, you can build up too much pressure, and the container can
pop," Woodward said.
When fire broke out in older labs, "it was usually on a stove in a back
room or garage and people would just run, but when these things pop, you
see more extreme burns because they are holding it. There are more fires
and more burns because of the close proximity, whether it's on a couch or
driving down the road."
After the chemical reaction, what's left is a crystalline powder that
users smoke, snort or inject. They often discard the bottle, which now
contains a poisonous brown and white sludge. Dozens of reports describe
toxic bottles strewn along highways and rural roads in states with the
worst meth problems.
The do-it-yourself method creates just enough meth for a few hits,
allowing users to make their own doses instead of buying mass-produced
drugs from a dealer.
"It simplified the process so much that everybody's making their own
dope," said Kevin Williams, sheriff of Marion County, Ala., about 80
miles west of Birmingham. "It can be your next-door neighbor doing it. It
can be one of your family members living downstairs in the basement."
A typical meth lab would normally take days to generate a full-size batch
of meth, which would require a heat source and dozens, maybe hundreds, of
boxes of cold pills.
But because the new method uses far less pseudoephedrine, small-time
users are able to make the drug in spite of a federal law that bars
customers from buying more than 9 grams — roughly 300 pills — a month.
The federal government and dozens of states adopted restrictions on
pseudoephedrine in 2005, and the number of lab busts fell dramatically.
The total number of clandestine meth lab incidents reported to the Drug
Enforcement Administration fell from almost 17,400 in 2003 to just 7,347
in 2006.
But the number of busts has begun to climb again, and some authorities
blame the shake-and-bake method for renewing meth activity.
_ At least 10 states reported increases in meth lab seizures or meth-
related arrests from 2007 to 2008.
_ The Mississippi State Crime Lab participated in 457 meth incidents
through May 31, up from 122 for the same period a year ago — a nearly
275
percent increase.
_ Several states, such as Oklahoma and Tennessee, are on pace this year
to double the number of labs busted in 2008. The director of Tennessee's
meth task force said the pace of lab busts in his state is projected to
be about 1,300 for 2009, compared with 815 for all of 2008.
Some states lack a central database to monitor cold medicine sales, so
meth cooks circumvent state laws by pill shopping in multiple cities and
states — a practice known as "smurfing" that allows them to stay under
restrictions placed on sales.
Traci Fruit, a special agent with the Kansas Bureau of Investigation,
said law enforcement officials are becoming increasingly frustrated
because there's no way to tell who is buying what "unless we go from
store to store ourselves and pull up the records."
Historically, rural states like Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas have been
hotbeds for meth use because an important ingredient in the traditional
method, anhydrous ammonia, was easily available from tanks on farms where
it's used as a fertilizer. But the new formula does not need anhydrous
ammonia and instead uses ammonium nitrate, a compound easily found in
instant cold packs that can be purchased at any drug store.
Data from the Justice Department and the DEA data suggest the method
could only be in its early stages, and "shake-and-bake" labs have
recently been discovered as far north as Indiana and as far east as West
Virginia.
States surveyed by the AP also included: Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas,
Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Kansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama,
Georgia, New Mexico, Arizona and California.
While many law enforcement agencies are just learning how to spot the new
labs, other states are rushing to close loopholes in laws limiting the
sale of meth ingredients.
Mississippi Sen. Sid Albritton, said that state's law — modeled after
Oklahoma's — forces buyers to show identification and makes stores keep
a
log of cold medicine sales. But the problem in Mississippi is lack of
technology to instantly log purchases in a central database.
"You have to understand going in that drugs are an evolutionary process,"
said Albritton, a former police detective and narcotics officer. "The day
after we pass a law, they are going to look for ways to circumvent that."
So, why do we continue paying hundreds of billions of dollars a year
on Prohibition again?
I get pissed off when I have to go to the pharmacy and have them scan
my driver's license just to buy over the counter allergy medication.
Now, I suppose, if I decide to buy a two-liter coke along with it,
they'll follow me home and arrest me?
There really is no drug war. We're at war with ourselves...
^ Hey Milty is it true, did you really have sex with a quadriplegic
girl?

This from a guy who's hung up on one-legged Steve Canyon.
bvallely
2009-08-27 03:04:14 UTC
Permalink
.
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug
laws
.
Lard ass Zepp is still excited over the release of two litter bottles
of soda.
5137 Dead, 270 since 1/20/09
2009-08-27 04:52:19 UTC
Permalink
.
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug
laws
.
Lard ass Zepp is still excited over the release of two litter bottles of
soda.
Poor Billy. Did someone piss in your Wheaties again?
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
--
"Universal" American healthcare coverage, explained:
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread." (Anatole France from The Red Lily, 1894)
bvallely
2009-08-28 07:29:50 UTC
Permalink
.
Post by 5122 Dead, 255 since 1/20/09
New formula lets meth users make drug in soda bottles, avoid anti-drug
laws
.
Lard ass Zepp is still excited over the release of two litter bottles of
soda.
.
Poor Billy.  Did someone piss in your Wheaties again?
.
Why would you even ask such a question? - oh, wait - is that the way
you live YOUR life?

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