BoJo’s Commons performance last night

[Stephen Cole]

Well, that was quite the spectacle. Whilst I didn’t expect any humility or
contrition from Johnson, I was genuinely shocked at the level of bombast
and bluster he rolled out, particularly later in the debate as he responded
to backbenchers.

First of all, his opening tantrum came across terribly, particularly so
when immediately compared to Corbyn’s response, which was very much “the
adult in the room” in style. Boris was clearly putting on a show but hasn’t
the gravitas to pull off the grandstanding; he just looks like a toff at
the debating society, which is unlikely to pick up many working class
“heartlands” votes.

Most upsetting, though, was the later stages. Deeply troubling though it
was to see the Prime Minister goading Labour backbenchers with the
assassination of Jo Cox, it was the clear relish with which he was setting
about on a pre-decided path to whip-up a fervour against Parliament in
order to carry a foul and toxic momentum into a “People vs The
Establishment” General Election. This is the stuff of fascists and tyrants,
and will end badly. Or at least it would if Johnson and his acolytes had
the gumption and talents that they believe they do. Fortunately, the last
few weeks have proved how deeply inadequate these people actually are but
the steps they are taking still carry the potential to set off trouble.
These are interesting times.

[m***@gmail.com]

Post by Stephen Cole
Well, that was quite the spectacle. Whilst I didn’t expect any humility or
contrition from Johnson, I was genuinely shocked at the level of bombast
and bluster he rolled out, particularly later in the debate as he responded
to backbenchers.
First of all, his opening tantrum came across terribly, particularly so
when immediately compared to Corbyn’s response, which was very much “the
adult in the room” in style. Boris was clearly putting on a show but hasn’t
the gravitas to pull off the grandstanding; he just looks like a toff at
the debating society, which is unlikely to pick up many working class
“heartlands” votes.
Most upsetting, though, was the later stages. Deeply troubling though it
was to see the Prime Minister goading Labour backbenchers with the
assassination of Jo Cox, it was the clear relish with which he was setting
about on a pre-decided path to whip-up a fervour against Parliament in
order to carry a foul and toxic momentum into a “People vs The
Establishment” General Election. This is the stuff of fascists and tyrants,
and will end badly. Or at least it would if Johnson and his acolytes had
the gumption and talents that they believe they do. Fortunately, the last
few weeks have proved how deeply inadequate these people actually are but
the steps they are taking still carry the potential to set off trouble.
These are interesting times.>>

Good post. Basically Boris is a spoiled kid, now not getting his own way. And a lazy kid to boot. No longer do we hear that the buck stops with Boris....instead it's everyone else's fault.

[4mat]

wasn't the person who shot jo cox,
a fervent 'brexiter' .. i can't figure out why boris johnson
would say that -- jo cox campaigned, was campaigning strongly,
for remain

so ....
boris johnson ..

it's the far right isn't it

thats his base

does he ever think at all .. does he pay attention to anything
that was 'off the cuff wasn't it'

bout one off the only 'onside' LBC djs, late last night, between
the irritating adverts, just about got it .. was trying to figure out
why boris johnson had stated, in response to an lbc djs question, during
the day, a complete falsehood, in what lady hale said

dj said "has he even read the judgement" .. but boris johnson stated twice
that ws the case, it was completely false, he breezes over things, he
distracts with 'eloquent' idiocy

he doesn't do any work -- he's a lazy, fat piece of shit, relying
constantly on his 'verbal flourishes' and the 35.2 watt club base he has,
the idiots in the uk -- express readers who are 'impressed by the
'genius'" of both him and 'rees mogg' .. as the express keeps telling us
"genius" .... they state nothing .. for rees mogg to state that this was
a "constituational coup" .. what an idiot .. it was the supreme court,
all 11 judges.

MSM, led by the daily telegraph is fully on the side of boris johnson,
guardian, with it's indiduous leaders, is fully on the side of this
criminal -- for the telegraph etc. to follow. Course they are fully
extorting now as the 'newspaper of justice/jouranlism' .. 'donate', they
say 'protect your rights' ... they have been wrecking corbyn (phase 8),
for days since the conference, in a baseless way

lady hale stated quite straightly that borises reason for suspension was
a complete falsehood, a lie. "it needs 3 days to organise a queens
speech" 3-6 was it, she said. Not a complete suspension, now, for one
reason only. Boris johnson and his thugs are liars. How do they think
they are going to win an election based on this. answer: it's the
formula, the outrage -- seize power, in the name of "democracy" .. all
they state, again and again, is that brexit, is "the will of the people".
He states again and again that "people want to leave" ...

supported totally, by the false MSM, it being 'north korea lite' -- state
media lockdown. All journalists in the UK are liars, -- they do not have
jobs, unless they are willing to lie for the government. State the
government line, or your are jobless -- fact. The guardian is
facilitating this dicator.

[Rod Speed]

wasn't the person who shot jo cox, a fervent 'brexiter' ..

Nope, just a rabid loony.

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Rod Speed

wasn't the person who shot jo cox, a fervent 'brexiter' ..

Nope, just a rabid loony.

I don't normally reply to professional trolls but this should not stand
unchallenged. The killer was a member of a small cell of far right
activists who planned an atrocity, including attacking an MP,
deliberately to further their cause. The other members of the cell have
mainly been charged with being members of an illegal organisation, as
there was said to be insufficient evidence that they helped plan this
specifici murder to charge them in the Jo Cox case. But they had all
planned terrorism. The murder was unrelated to any mental illness.

[Incubus]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Rod Speed

wasn't the person who shot jo cox, a fervent 'brexiter' ..

Nope, just a rabid loony.

I don't normally reply to professional trolls but this should not stand
unchallenged. The killer was a member of a small cell of far right
activists who planned an atrocity, including attacking an MP,
deliberately to further their cause. The other members of the cell have
mainly been charged with being members of an illegal organisation, as
there was said to be insufficient evidence that they helped plan this
specifici murder to charge them in the Jo Cox case. But they had all
planned terrorism. The murder was unrelated to any mental illness.

I don't think this is correct. He was a lone nutter. Nothing to do with
National Action, who were convicted of planning such an atrocity (planning
meaning talking shit to one another which was prosecuted for political gain).

[Ian Jackson]

Post by Incubus

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Rod Speed

wasn't the person who shot jo cox, a fervent 'brexiter' ..

Nope, just a rabid loony.

I don't normally reply to professional trolls but this should not stand
unchallenged. The killer was a member of a small cell of far right
activists who planned an atrocity, including attacking an MP,
deliberately to further their cause. The other members of the cell have
mainly been charged with being members of an illegal organisation, as
there was said to be insufficient evidence that they helped plan this
specifici murder to charge them in the Jo Cox case. But they had all
planned terrorism. The murder was unrelated to any mental illness.

I don't think this is correct. He was a lone nutter. Nothing to do with
National Action, who were convicted of planning such an atrocity (planning
meaning talking shit to one another which was prosecuted for political gain).

You don't have to be a member of anything to be influenced by the
rhetoric and the sort of views they espouse.

[Stephen Cole]

The Remainers tried to exploit Jo Cox's murder, just has they have
repeatedly falsely accused those who voted Leave of violence etc., when
the various protests which have caused problems have invariable been the
rent a mob Remainers- probably because the Leavers are at too busy
working to support the wasters.

Rather obvious you're not working by the time of your post. Does this make
you a remainer?

No, it makes you thick.

But you’re not working, Brian, and haven’t been for years. So, by your own
logic, you’re a waster.

[mechanic]

Post by Roger Hayter
The murder was unrelated to any mental illness.

An entirely rational act then?

[dennis@home]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Rod Speed

wasn't the person who shot jo cox, a fervent 'brexiter' ..

Nope, just a rabid loony.

I don't normally reply to professional trolls but this should not stand
unchallenged. The killer was a member of a small cell of far right
activists who planned an atrocity, including attacking an MP,
deliberately to further their cause. The other members of the cell have
mainly been charged with being members of an illegal organisation, as
there was said to be insufficient evidence that they helped plan this
specifici murder to charge them in the Jo Cox case. But they had all
planned terrorism. The murder was unrelated to any mental illness.

It wouldn't be the first time people have attacked the side they are on
to generate public sympathy by making it look like their opponents.

Its what boris is doing now in the commons.

I hope he gets caught out the same as Jo's killers were and exposed for
what they are and not what brexiteers claim they were.

It shows the depths brexiteers will sink to by claiming Jo's killer was
a remain supporter when he was a leave supporter.

Brexiteers in the DIY group have proved they are scum.

[Rod Speed]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Rod Speed

wasn't the person who shot jo cox, a fervent 'brexiter' ..

Nope, just a rabid loony.

I don't normally reply to professional trolls but this should
not stand unchallenged. The killer was a member of a small
cell of far right activists who planned an atrocity, including
attacking an MP,deliberately to further their cause.

All that means is that rabid loonys can be attracted to that sort
of operation. His history proves that he is in fact a rabid loony.

Post by Roger Hayter
The other members of the cell have mainly been charged
with being members of an illegal organisation, as there
was said to be insufficient evidence that they helped plan
this specifici murder to charge them in the Jo Cox case.

And with a rabid loony, its very unlikely that anyone can actually
get someone like that to do what they want them to do.

Post by Roger Hayter
But they had all planned terrorism. The
murder was unrelated to any mental illness.

BULLSHIT. There are plenty of examples
of rabid loonys killing people like that.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 03:16:16 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Post by Rod Speed
BULLSHIT.

That one word would make the PERFECT nym for you, you senile "heavyweight
bullshitter"!

[Peeler]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 03:16:16 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Post by Rod Speed
All that means is that rabid loonys can

YOU calling someone ELSE "rabid loonys"???? YOUUUU? Of all people????
ROTFLOL

[Peeler]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 16:19:54 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Post by Rod Speed

wasn't the person who shot jo cox, a fervent 'brexiter' ..

Nope, just a rabid loony.

Unlike you??? ROTFLOL

[Stephen Cole]

Post by 4mat
wasn't the person who shot jo cox,
a fervent 'brexiter' .. i can't figure out why boris johnson
would say that -- jo cox campaigned, was campaigning strongly,
for remain

Her murderer was a neo - Nazi, not the same at all.

We’ve covered this before, Brian, and you’ve been provided with the
evidence from his own mouth that proves her killer was a fervent Brexiteer,
so it’s a little silly of you to play ignorant here. If the actions of your
Leave fellow travellers make you feel uncomfortable then you should
publicly denounce them and repudiate your shared views. Will you finally do
the decent thing?

[Brian Gaff]

Don't be shy tell us what you really think.
grin
I do not see any statesmen amongst the lot of them, I do however feel that
despite his age, Kenneth Clarke is a very steady person and has always been
honest, even though I do not always agree with him. That was probably why
Boris chucked him out.
Brian
--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Post by 4mat
wasn't the person who shot jo cox,
a fervent 'brexiter' .. i can't figure out why boris johnson
would say that -- jo cox campaigned, was campaigning strongly,
for remain
so ....
boris johnson ..
it's the far right isn't it
thats his base
does he ever think at all .. does he pay attention to anything
that was 'off the cuff wasn't it'
bout one off the only 'onside' LBC djs, late last night, between
the irritating adverts, just about got it .. was trying to figure out
why boris johnson had stated, in response to an lbc djs question, during
the day, a complete falsehood, in what lady hale said
dj said "has he even read the judgement" .. but boris johnson stated twice
that ws the case, it was completely false, he breezes over things, he
distracts with 'eloquent' idiocy
he doesn't do any work -- he's a lazy, fat piece of shit, relying
constantly on his 'verbal flourishes' and the 35.2 watt club base he has,
the idiots in the uk -- express readers who are 'impressed by the
'genius'" of both him and 'rees mogg' .. as the express keeps telling us
"genius" .... they state nothing .. for rees mogg to state that this was
a "constituational coup" .. what an idiot .. it was the supreme court,
all 11 judges.
MSM, led by the daily telegraph is fully on the side of boris johnson,
guardian, with it's indiduous leaders, is fully on the side of this
criminal -- for the telegraph etc. to follow. Course they are fully
extorting now as the 'newspaper of justice/jouranlism' .. 'donate', they
say 'protect your rights' ... they have been wrecking corbyn (phase 8),
for days since the conference, in a baseless way
lady hale stated quite straightly that borises reason for suspension was
a complete falsehood, a lie. "it needs 3 days to organise a queens
speech" 3-6 was it, she said. Not a complete suspension, now, for one
reason only. Boris johnson and his thugs are liars. How do they think
they are going to win an election based on this. answer: it's the
formula, the outrage -- seize power, in the name of "democracy" .. all
they state, again and again, is that brexit, is "the will of the people".
He states again and again that "people want to leave" ...
supported totally, by the false MSM, it being 'north korea lite' -- state
media lockdown. All journalists in the UK are liars, -- they do not have
jobs, unless they are willing to lie for the government. State the
government line, or your are jobless -- fact. The guardian is
facilitating this dicator.

[Roger]

Post by 4mat
wasn't the person who shot jo cox,
a fervent 'brexiter' .. i can't figure out why boris johnson
would say that -- jo cox campaigned, was campaigning strongly,
for remain

Oddly, the same people who maintain that we should not judge Muslims on basis of actions by ISIS are also maintaining that we should judge Brexiters by the actions of a neo-Nazi.

The response to Jo Cox's murderer should be to resolve differences in parliament, not by violence.

[The Todal]

Post by Stephen Cole
Well, that was quite the spectacle. Whilst I didn’t expect any humility or
contrition from Johnson, I was genuinely shocked at the level of bombast
and bluster he rolled out, particularly later in the debate as he responded
to backbenchers.
First of all, his opening tantrum came across terribly, particularly so
when immediately compared to Corbyn’s response, which was very much “the
adult in the room” in style. Boris was clearly putting on a show but hasn’t
the gravitas to pull off the grandstanding; he just looks like a toff at
the debating society, which is unlikely to pick up many working class
“heartlands” votes.
Most upsetting, though, was the later stages. Deeply troubling though it
was to see the Prime Minister goading Labour backbenchers with the
assassination of Jo Cox, it was the clear relish with which he was setting
about on a pre-decided path to whip-up a fervour against Parliament in
order to carry a foul and toxic momentum into a “People vs The
Establishment” General Election. This is the stuff of fascists and tyrants,
and will end badly. Or at least it would if Johnson and his acolytes had
the gumption and talents that they believe they do. Fortunately, the last
few weeks have proved how deeply inadequate these people actually are but
the steps they are taking still carry the potential to set off trouble.
These are interesting times.

I watched the Commons debate from the point after Boris had left. Anna
Soubry's speech was very poignant. Boris has disgraced himself and has
been reproached by people on both sides of the House.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/25/pm-branded-a-disgrace-after-saying-best-way-to-honour-jo-cox-is-to-deliver-brexit

[Stephen Cole]

Post by The Todal

Post by Stephen Cole
Well, that was quite the spectacle. Whilst I didn’t expect any humility or
contrition from Johnson, I was genuinely shocked at the level of bombast
and bluster he rolled out, particularly later in the debate as he responded
to backbenchers.
First of all, his opening tantrum came across terribly, particularly so
when immediately compared to Corbyn’s response, which was very much “the
adult in the room” in style. Boris was clearly putting on a show but hasn’t
the gravitas to pull off the grandstanding; he just looks like a toff at
the debating society, which is unlikely to pick up many working class
“heartlands” votes.
Most upsetting, though, was the later stages. Deeply troubling though it
was to see the Prime Minister goading Labour backbenchers with the
assassination of Jo Cox, it was the clear relish with which he was setting
about on a pre-decided path to whip-up a fervour against Parliament in
order to carry a foul and toxic momentum into a “People vs The
Establishment” General Election. This is the stuff of fascists and tyrants,
and will end badly. Or at least it would if Johnson and his acolytes had
the gumption and talents that they believe they do. Fortunately, the last
few weeks have proved how deeply inadequate these people actually are but
the steps they are taking still carry the potential to set off trouble.
These are interesting times.

I watched the Commons debate from the point after Boris had left. Anna
Soubry's speech was very poignant. Boris has disgraced himself and has
been reproached by people on both sides of the House.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/25/pm-branded-a-disgrace-after-saying-best-way-to-honour-jo-cox-is-to-deliver-brexit

Indeed. Whilst I think it’s clear what he’s trying to gain by acting like
this, I do think that there will be unintended consequences that will far
outweigh any benefit he may gain. I mean, it’s very unlikely that he’ll get
the early election he needs (ie, called before no deal is made impossible
by the securing of an extension) but there will be an election at some
point soon and the Tories may well make some hay from the People vs
Parliament narrative he’s laying down. But if a deranged Brexiteer
slaughters another Remain MP on the campaign trail, there’ll be blood on
Boris’ hands.

Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to
see the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition
to call no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened
before?

He wants an election only in his time scale. So the 31st will come before
a new parliament can do anything about it. If we have an election before
Brexit, TBP will take many votes from the Tories, and Boris toast.

Only a fool would have taken the job as PM at this time. And Boris is
proving to be that more as each day goes on.

[Martin Brown]

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.

In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.

It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

If we must have a HIGNFY comedian Prime Minister how about Ian Hislop or
Paul Merton. I am sure they would be much more careful with their words.

[Incubus]

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

[nightjar]

On 26/09/2019 11:57, Incubus wrote:
...

Post by Incubus
Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. ...

The polls suggest otherwise:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/remain-55-45-second-referendum-brexit-poll/

and they have done so for quite some time:

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

[Incubus]

Post by nightjar
...

Post by Incubus
Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. ...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/remain-55-45-second-referendum-brexit-poll/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

The first one had a sample size of 1,070. I didn't bother looking at the rest.

[dennis@home]

Post by Incubus

Post by nightjar
...

Post by Incubus
Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. ...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/remain-55-45-second-referendum-brexit-poll/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

The first one had a sample size of 1,070. I didn't bother looking at the rest.

If you understand statistics you will know that a sample size of 1000
gives a good accuracy.

[Incubus]

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus

Post by nightjar
...

Post by Incubus
Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. ...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/remain-55-45-second-referendum-brexit-poll/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

The first one had a sample size of 1,070. I didn't bother looking at the rest.

If you understand statistics you will know that a sample size of 1000
gives a good accuracy.

If you understand demographics, you will know that a sample size of 1000 on
political issues gives terrible accuracy. A survey taken in London, for
example, would give a very skewed result.

[dennis@home]

Post by Incubus

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus

Post by nightjar
...

Post by Incubus
Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. ...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/remain-55-45-second-referendum-brexit-poll/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

The first one had a sample size of 1,070. I didn't bother looking at the rest.

If you understand statistics you will know that a sample size of 1000
gives a good accuracy.

If you understand demographics, you will know that a sample size of 1000 on
political issues gives terrible accuracy. A survey taken in London, for
example, would give a very skewed result.

who said it was taken from a limited demographic?

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Incubus

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus

Post by nightjar
...

Post by Incubus
Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. ...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/remain-55-45-second-referendum-brexit-poll/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorro
w-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leav
ing-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain
-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-he
ld-today-how-would-you-vote/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-
a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-
the-referendum/

The first one had a sample size of 1,070. I didn't bother looking at the rest.

If you understand statistics you will know that a sample size of 1000
gives a good accuracy.

If you understand demographics, you will know that a sample size of 1000 on
political issues gives terrible accuracy. A survey taken in London, for
example, would give a very skewed result.

That's probably why the poll companies go to some lengths to get a
representative sample as far as background and locality is concerned.

[tory_far_right_party]

Post by nightjar
...

Post by Incubus
Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. ...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/remain-55-45-second-referendum-brexit-poll/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-

tomorrow-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-
leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/

Post by nightjar
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-

was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

Post by nightjar
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-

held-today-how-would-you-vote/

Post by nightjar
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-

a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-
the-referendum/

polls mean nothing around corbyn / the disintegration of the tories, when
it comes to an election

boris may be "10 points ahead" ... idiot may was 30 points ahead, when
she called, vs corbyn

she lost her majority -- she wished she hadn't called -- it was a huge
mistake

boris johnson won't win an election -- he can't even win a vote

as i stated .. re: what he is doing, 'bannon playbook'
express readers aren't enough to win an election

he has disgusted a good deal of his membership this week. they are
'conservative' -- smarter than the ignorant brexit thugs, guardian/bbc
watchers, that he is playing to --- he will pay for this, in an election

the far right thug -- steve bannon playbook, trump follower -- this
"environmentalist", is a failing disgrace, a liar, proved, in the highest
court

he and his idiots think they can sustain any narrative now, re 'iran'
for the failing idiot he follows

boris johnson represents nothing but a small number of idiots

opportunists, like him

he is finished in politics, after this

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

We don't elect governments. We elect MPs. And Boris's right to govern
is dependent upon him having a the support of a majority of MPs.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

We don't elect governments. We elect MPs. And Boris's right to govern
is dependent upon him having a the support of a majority of MPs.

I suspect that most people vote for their favourite party, in the hope
that they will end up with the government of their choice. That some of
those MPs are carpet-baggers is a situation that all parties seem
currently to be addressing one way or another as politics settles around
a leave/remain axis. I'm sure you've seen this, which nicely
illustrates the struggle for dominance in the two camps. :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

[Incubus]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

We don't elect governments. We elect MPs.

And those elected MPs form a government. Perhaps you've been visiting Todal
for lessons in equivocation.

Post by Roger Hayter
And Boris's right to govern
is dependent upon him having a the support of a majority of MPs.

He is still the Prime Minister and heads up the government. If MPs don't like
that, there are options they can consider such as a vote of confidence or a
General Election.

[dennis@home]

Post by Incubus
He is still the Prime Minister and heads up the government. If MPs don't like
that, there are options they can consider such as a vote of confidence or a
General Election.

Just wait until an extention is in place and watch boris not want an
election.

He didn't want an election when he prorouged parliament but did when he
thought it would be declare null and void.

Only idiots fall for his antics.

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Incubus

Post by Roger Hayter

On 26/09/2019 10:16, Stephen Cole wrote: > >> Aside from the toxic
performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see >> the Prime
Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call >> no
confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before? > >
Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP

Post by Martin Brown
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement

renewal. > > In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the
government is > likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself
intending to lose.

Post by Martin Brown
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. They have trampled over
precedent and we now have the bizarre situation where the elected
government is not being allowed to govern. That doesn't appear to
concern you one bit.

We don't elect governments. We elect MPs.

And those elected MPs form a government.

*Some* ot those MPs form a government. Others qualify by party
membership as government back-benchers but are not part of the
government. And any of either group can choose to withdraw from
supporting the government at any time . The only people they have to
answer to are their constituency voters at the next election.

Post by Incubus
Perhaps you've been visiting Todal
for lessons in equivocation.

Post by Roger Hayter
And Boris's right to govern
is dependent upon him having a the support of a majority of MPs.

He is still the Prime Minister and heads up the government. If MPs don't like
that, there are options they can consider such as a vote of confidence or a
General Election.

[Norman Wells]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Incubus

Post by Roger Hayter
We don't elect governments. We elect MPs.

And those elected MPs form a government.

*Some* ot those MPs form a government. Others qualify by party
membership as government back-benchers but are not part of the
government. And any of either group can choose to withdraw from
supporting the government at any time . The only people they have to
answer to are their constituency voters at the next election.

It's not a good career move to be deslected, though. You're rather
unlikely to be re-elected as an Independent.

[charles]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Incubus

Post by Roger Hayter
We don't elect governments. We elect MPs.

And those elected MPs form a government.

*Some* ot those MPs form a government. Others qualify by party
membership as government back-benchers but are not part of the
government. And any of either group can choose to withdraw from
supporting the government at any time . The only people they have to
answer to are their constituency voters at the next election.

It's not a good career move to be deslected, though. You're rather
unlikely to be re-elected as an Independent.

but it has happened.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

We don't elect governments. We elect MPs. And Boris's right to govern
is dependent upon him having a the support of a majority of MPs.

And if he hasn't then they should have a vote of no confidence and an
election because no other person has the confidence of the MPs either.
So we need new MPS.
But turkeys dont vote for christmas and this lot know they are for the
roasting oven.

They are more than usually cuntish in their behaviour

[Norman Wells]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

We don't elect governments. We elect MPs. And Boris's right to govern
is dependent upon him having a the support of a majority of MPs.

Which he doesn't. So, who does? If no-one then we surely have to have
a general election.

[Rod Speed]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

We don't elect governments. We elect MPs. And Boris's right to govern
is dependent upon him having a the support of a majority of MPs.

Which he doesn't. So, who does? If no-one then we surely have to have a
general election.

Nope, plenty of places do minority govt fine.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 02:40:04 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Which he doesn't. So, who does? If no-one then we surely have to have a
general election.

Nope

LOL Do you get some sort of tiny senile climax, every time you type that
word, you senile idiot?

[Martin Brown]

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite
remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing.  The
cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people.  They have trampled over precedent and we now
have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

We don't elect governments.  We elect MPs.   And Boris's right to govern
is dependent upon him having a the support of a majority of MPs.

Which he doesn't.  So, who does?  If no-one then we surely have to have
a general election.

Eventually yes. But since he has destroyed any goodwill he might have
inherited as a new PM even on his own side and he no longer has any kind
of workable majority he is reliant on the opposition to pass any bill -
even one of no confidence in *his* own government.

He couldn't even get them time off to go to the Tory Conference in
Manchester next week (or even negotiate moving a lectern in Luxembourg).

Leaving him to swing in the breeze is the most effective tactical
measure available to the opposition at present. Belgium seems to manage
OK without any government for a couple of years from time to time...

https://www.brusselstimes.com/opinion/53667/what-no-government-the-current-state-of-belgian-politics-and-the-rocky-road-ahead/

Better get used to it...

[Norman Wells]

Post by Martin Brown

We don't elect governments.  We elect MPs.   And Boris's right to govern
is dependent upon him having a the support of a majority of MPs.

Which he doesn't.  So, who does?  If no-one then we surely have to
have a general election.

Eventually yes. But since he has destroyed any goodwill he might have
inherited as a new PM even on his own side and he no longer has any kind
of workable majority he is reliant on the opposition to pass any bill -
even one of no confidence in *his* own government.
He couldn't even get them time off to go to the Tory Conference in
Manchester next week (or even negotiate moving a lectern in Luxembourg).
Leaving him to swing in the breeze is the most effective tactical
measure available to the opposition at present.

I think it's actually playing into his hands and strengthening his Boris
v Parliament and the Establishment case.

It certainly doesn't play well with the public, apart from those with a
playground mentality who chortle away at every misfortune that befalls
anyone.

[critcher]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

We don't elect governments. We elect MPs. And Boris's right to govern
is dependent upon him having a the support of a majority of MPs.

not likely if he removes the whip from any more Tories.

[Martin Brown]

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

Prime Minister Johnson has *no* mandate to govern after he threw away
his miniscule majority in an even more cavalier manner than May did.

[Roger]

Post by Martin Brown
Prime Minister Johnson has *no* mandate to govern after he threw away
his miniscule majority in an even more cavalier manner than May did.

The normal solution to government with no mandate is a vote of no confidence.

This would allow the government to be replaced immediately if an alternative were available.

So why is parliament not doing this?

[Incubus]

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

Prime Minister Johnson has *no* mandate to govern after he threw away
his miniscule majority in an even more cavalier manner than May did.

Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise. The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers) certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

[Martin Brown]

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

Prime Minister Johnson has *no* mandate to govern after he threw away
his miniscule majority in an even more cavalier manner than May did.

Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise. The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers) certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

He can only hope to pass the most trivial uncontroversial legislation
(if that). He is in effect stuck on a zip-wire and totally impotent. The
opposition parties can cut him down at a time of *their* choosing.

Chances are he won't even be able to get them time off now to go to the
Conservative Party conference in Manchester such is his low standing.

He can bloviate, bluff and bluster all he likes - the opposition just
have to keep their nerve and stone wall until 31/10 goes past. Then they
can deliver the coup de grace. The next election will be very messy.

Not so much dog whistle politics as fog horn politics.

Boris will make it into the record books but for all the wrong reasons.

[abelard]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:49:17 +0100, Martin Brown

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.
That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

Prime Minister Johnson has *no* mandate to govern after he threw away
his miniscule majority in an even more cavalier manner than May did.

Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise. The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers) certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

He can only hope to pass the most trivial uncontroversial legislation
(if that). He is in effect stuck on a zip-wire and totally impotent. The
opposition parties can cut him down at a time of *their* choosing.
Chances are he won't even be able to get them time off now to go to the
Conservative Party conference in Manchester such is his low standing.
He can bloviate, bluff and bluster all he likes - the opposition just
have to keep their nerve and stone wall until 31/10 goes past. Then they
can deliver the coup de grace. The next election will be very messy.
Not so much dog whistle politics as fog horn politics.
Boris will make it into the record books but for all the wrong reasons.

and that was a broadcast on behalf of the fascist 'new' labour cult

[Norman Wells]

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown
Prime Minister Johnson has *no* mandate to govern after he threw away
his miniscule majority in an even more cavalier manner than May did.

Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise.  The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers)
certainly has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

He can only hope to pass the most trivial uncontroversial legislation
(if that). He is in effect stuck on a zip-wire and totally impotent. The
opposition parties can cut him down at a time of *their* choosing.
Chances are he won't even be able to get them time off now to go to the
Conservative Party conference in Manchester such is his low standing.
He can bloviate, bluff and bluster all he likes - the opposition just
have to keep their nerve and stone wall until 31/10 goes past. Then they
can deliver the coup de grace. The next election will be very messy.

But what makes you think he wouldn't win it?

[Martin Brown]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown
Prime Minister Johnson has *no* mandate to govern after he threw away
his miniscule majority in an even more cavalier manner than May did.

Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise.  The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers)
certainly has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

He can only hope to pass the most trivial uncontroversial legislation
(if that). He is in effect stuck on a zip-wire and totally impotent.
The opposition parties can cut him down at a time of *their* choosing.
Chances are he won't even be able to get them time off now to go to
the Conservative Party conference in Manchester such is his low standing.
He can bloviate, bluff and bluster all he likes - the opposition just
have to keep their nerve and stone wall until 31/10 goes past. Then
they can deliver the coup de grace. The next election will be very messy.

But what makes you think he wouldn't win it?

He might. It is all going to hinge on how effectively The Brexit party
steals votes off the two main parties and whether or not enough people
who now detest both Corbinista Labour and Tory Borisism vote tactically
for whichever of Greens/LibDem/SNP/Cymru stand the best chance of
winning for Remain against the favourite in each constituency.

I doubt if there will be any Tory MPs returned in Scotland this time...

I don't trust Corbyn either. He is a serial rebel, not a leader and
hates making decisions hence his uncomfortable sitting on the Brexit
fence yoga position.

There is a very big gap opening up in politics between the two extremes
that the once classical parties of government used to fight over. The
LibDems are occupying the middle ground with a clear no Brexit policy.

My money is on an even more hung parliament with no clear majority for
any of the main parties and then a government of national unity. That
will have to be led by someone who can command cross party respect.

Boris has totally lost any respect he might once have had at the outset.

It is quite possible that both Labour and Tory parties will each schism
into their own version of unelectable tendency zealots and more sane
centrist moderates who still retain the ability to compromise.

We will have to wait and see how it plays out.

[abelard]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 16:36:20 +0100, Martin Brown

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown
Prime Minister Johnson has *no* mandate to govern after he threw away
his miniscule majority in an even more cavalier manner than May did.

Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise.  The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers)
certainly has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

He can only hope to pass the most trivial uncontroversial legislation
(if that). He is in effect stuck on a zip-wire and totally impotent.
The opposition parties can cut him down at a time of *their* choosing.
Chances are he won't even be able to get them time off now to go to
the Conservative Party conference in Manchester such is his low standing.
He can bloviate, bluff and bluster all he likes - the opposition just
have to keep their nerve and stone wall until 31/10 goes past. Then
they can deliver the coup de grace. The next election will be very messy.

But what makes you think he wouldn't win it?

He might. It is all going to hinge on how effectively The Brexit party
steals votes off the two main parties and whether or not enough people
who now detest both Corbinista Labour and Tory Borisism vote tactically
for whichever of Greens/LibDem/SNP/Cymru stand the best chance of
winning for Remain against the favourite in each constituency.
I doubt if there will be any Tory MPs returned in Scotland this time...
I don't trust Corbyn either. He is a serial rebel, not a leader and
hates making decisions hence his uncomfortable sitting on the Brexit
fence yoga position.
There is a very big gap opening up in politics between the two extremes
that the once classical parties of government used to fight over. The
LibDems are occupying the middle ground with a clear no Brexit policy.
My money

how much of your alleged money?

Post by Martin Brown
is on an even more hung parliament with no clear majority for
any of the main parties and then a government of national unity. That
will have to be led by someone who can command cross party respect.
Boris has totally lost any respect he might once have had at the outset.
It is quite possible that both Labour and Tory parties will each schism
into their own version of unelectable tendency zealots and more sane
centrist moderates who still retain the ability to compromise.
We will have to wait and see how it plays out.

[Norman Wells]

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown
He can bloviate, bluff and bluster all he likes - the opposition just
have to keep their nerve and stone wall until 31/10 goes past. Then
they can deliver the coup de grace. The next election will be very messy.

But what makes you think he wouldn't win it?

He might. It is all going to hinge on how effectively The Brexit party
steals votes off the two main parties

It's likely only to steal votes from the Conservatives. But even that
depends on where we stand with Brexit at the time of the election and on
the Tories' policy on it if we haven't left by then. That nice Mr
Farage has already proposed an electoral pact with the Tories, though
that has rather perfunctorily been rejected. Whether some sort of
compromise is necessary or will be reached remains to be seen but it
will depend on several factors including of course the polls.

Post by Martin Brown
and whether or not enough people
who now detest both Corbinista Labour and Tory Borisism vote tactically
for whichever of Greens/LibDem/SNP/Cymru stand the best chance of
winning for Remain against the favourite in each constituency.

I don't think there's any evidence that people vote tactically in
sufficient numbers to make a difference, especially when they would all
have to vote the same way when there may be three or even four choices
on the menu.

The only way Remain parties can avoid splitting the Remain vote between
them is to have an electoral pact of some sort and have only one Remain
candidate in any seat they think they might win.

Like that's going to happen!

Post by Martin Brown
I doubt if there will be any Tory MPs returned in Scotland this time...
I don't trust Corbyn either. He is a serial rebel, not a leader and
hates making decisions hence his uncomfortable sitting on the Brexit
fence yoga position.
There is a very big gap opening up in politics between the two extremes
that the once classical parties of government used to fight over. The
LibDems are occupying the middle ground with a clear no Brexit policy.

Which is of course totally undemocratic, though that will not matter in
the slightest to Remainers. But they do also have the disadvantage of a
shrill and very un-Prime Ministerial leader.

Post by Martin Brown
My money is on an even more hung parliament with no clear majority for
any of the main parties and then a government of national unity. That
will have to be led by someone who can command cross party respect.

That's a non-starter, though the result may require a coalition of some
colour. We won't know until we have one. And then it might result in a
convincing win for someone. I wouldn't rule it out.

Post by Martin Brown
We will have to wait and see how it plays out.

Indeed. We are mere spectators.

[Rod Speed]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown
He can bloviate, bluff and bluster all he likes - the opposition just
have to keep their nerve and stone wall until 31/10 goes past. Then
they can deliver the coup de grace. The next election will be very messy.

But what makes you think he wouldn't win it?

He might. It is all going to hinge on how effectively The Brexit party
steals votes off the two main parties

It's likely only to steal votes from the Conservatives.

Bullshit. It will also get some from Labour voters now
pissed off that Labour wont do what it promised to
do, do what the referendum votes said they wanted.

All those who have deserted Labour since the last general
election wont all be voting LimpDim or not bothering to
vote. Some will certainly be voting for the brexit party,
particularly those in the non London constituencys.

Post by Norman Wells
But even that depends on where we stand with Brexit at the time of the
election and on the Tories' policy on it if we haven't left by then.

Its unlikely that the Torys will pull the plug on
Boris' policy given the overwhelming support
he got in the PM election in the tory party itself.

Post by Norman Wells
That nice Mr Farage has already proposed an electoral pact with the
Tories, though that has rather perfunctorily been rejected.

Because the Torys realise that he didn’t even manage to
get himself elected and is unlikely to do so in a new general
election given how gung ho Boris is about brexit now.

Post by Norman Wells
Whether some sort of compromise is necessary or will be reached remains to
be seen but it will depend on several factors including of course the
polls.

And even more crucially if the EU grants an extension
because if it doesn’t, the entire brexit question is decided
and there wont be any point in having a general election
because all the current parliament would be able to do
is ask the EU to allow the UK to join again, and even the
current parliament wouldn’t actually be that stupid given
that its ended up with a no deal brexit.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown
and whether or not enough people who now detest both Corbinista Labour
and Tory Borisism vote tactically for whichever of
Greens/LibDem/SNP/Cymru stand the best chance of winning for Remain
against the favourite in each constituency.

I don't think there's any evidence that people vote tactically in
sufficient numbers to make a difference, especially when they would all
have to vote the same way when there may be three or even four choices on
the menu.

There are only really 3, the brexit party couldn’t even get Farage
elected. So tactical voting would have to be for the LimpDims.

Post by Norman Wells
The only way Remain parties can avoid splitting the Remain vote between
them

There is only one remain party that matters parliament wise.

Post by Norman Wells
is to have an electoral pact of some sort

The don’t need one given that there is only
one remain party with more than just one seat.

Post by Norman Wells
and have only one Remain candidate in any seat they think they might win.

Don’t need that either given how irrelevant
they all are apart from the LimpDims.

Post by Norman Wells
Like that's going to happen!

Doesn’t matter if it does or not.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown
I doubt if there will be any Tory MPs returned in Scotland this time...
I don't trust Corbyn either. He is a serial rebel, not a leader

And a rabid Trot.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown
and hates making decisions hence his uncomfortable sitting on the Brexit
fence yoga position.

That’s more to try to keep as many voting Labour as possible.
That’s why he didn’t let the NEC decide Labour policy on that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown
There is a very big gap opening up in politics between the two extremes
that the once classical parties of government used to fight over. The
LibDems are occupying the middle ground with a clear no Brexit policy.

Which is of course totally undemocratic,

No it isnt.

Post by Norman Wells
though that will not matter in the slightest to Remainers. But they do
also have the disadvantage of a shrill and very un-Prime Ministerial
leader.

And no chance of the LimpDims ever being the govt.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown
My money is on an even more hung parliament with no clear majority for
any of the main parties and then a government of national unity.

Mine too.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown
That will have to be led by someone who can command cross party respect.

Doesn’t need to be led by anyone.

Post by Norman Wells
That's a non-starter, though the result may require a coalition of some
colour.

Unlikely unless it’s a very close result again so
that a tiny party like the DUP can do it again.

No evidence that the brexit party will do any
better than UKIP did and so its hard to see
who the coalition partners could be given
that Swinson is so adamant that she wont
be in coalition with anyone. Tho it remains
to be seen if she caves on that when it comes
to the crunch.

And given that Labour is doing so badly in the
polls, its very unlikely that even the SNP will
hold its nose and end up in coalition with
the LimpDims to get Article 50 revoked either.

Post by Norman Wells
We won't know until we have one.

But stupid to be taking the risk of an even
worse parliament than there is now.

Post by Norman Wells
And then it might result in a convincing win for someone.

There is no chance of that given that the
country is so evenly divided on brexit.

Post by Norman Wells
I wouldn't rule it out.

You are irrelevant. What matters is
what Boris and Corbyn feel about that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown
We will have to wait and see how it plays out.

Indeed. We are mere spectators.

Not really, Boris and Corbyn are looking at the polls.

Corse May did too, and got that completely wrong when she did.

No evidence that Boris or Corbyn can do any better at that.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 04:26:13 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH>

Post by Rod Speed
You are irrelevant.

<FLUSH>

NOBODY could ever be as irrelevant as you, you 85-year-old, useless,
trolling senile pest from Oz!

[Rod Speed]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown
Prime Minister Johnson has *no* mandate to govern after he threw away
his miniscule majority in an even more cavalier manner than May did.

Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise. The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers)
certainly has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

He can only hope to pass the most trivial uncontroversial legislation (if
that). He is in effect stuck on a zip-wire and totally impotent. The
opposition parties can cut him down at a time of *their* choosing.
Chances are he won't even be able to get them time off now to go to the
Conservative Party conference in Manchester such is his low standing.
He can bloviate, bluff and bluster all he likes - the opposition just
have to keep their nerve and stone wall until 31/10 goes past. Then they
can deliver the coup de grace. The next election will be very messy.

But what makes you think he wouldn't win it?

If the voter sentiment for brexit has changed, they may be
pissed off enough to deliver an even less workable parliament.

Yes, that makes no sense for the country, but it wouldn’t be
the first time that the voters have managed to do that, most
obviously with the result May got.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 02:42:54 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Post by Rod Speed

Post by Norman Wells
But what makes you think he wouldn't win it?

If the voter sentiment

NOBODY asked you ANYTHING, you trolling senile pest from Oz!

[dennis@home]

Post by Incubus
Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise. The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers) certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

Of course they do, they are in the majority.

[Norman Wells]

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus
Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise.  The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers)
certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

Of course they do, they are in the majority.

Then why do they fear a general election so much?

[Martin Brown]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus
Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise.  The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers)
certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

Of course they do, they are in the majority.

Then why do they fear a general election so much?

They understand the nature of the trap that The Boris has set. If they
triggered a general election he can set its date to be in November after
he has forced a disastrous no deal Brexit on the country.

The opposition have to crash his "Brexit do or die" boast into the wall
before they force a general election. Perhaps not even then. I'm not
convinced that Corbyn is capable of biting this particular bullet.

[Norman Wells]

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Norman Wells

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus
Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise.  The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers)
certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

Of course they do, they are in the majority.

Then why do they fear a general election so much?

They understand the nature of the trap that The Boris has set. If they
triggered a general election he can set its date to be in November after
he has forced a disastrous no deal Brexit on the country.

There's always some excuse, isn't there?

Post by Martin Brown
The opposition have to crash his "Brexit do or die" boast into the wall
before they force a general election. Perhaps not even then. I'm not
convinced that Corbyn is capable of biting this particular bullet.

So, he's prepared to leave the country without a functioning government
rather than act in the national interest to solve it?

What does that say about Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, eh? It's all a
bit pathetic and shabby, isn't it?

[Rod Speed]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Norman Wells

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus
Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General
Election says otherwise. The opposition (or rather, the cabal of
Remainers) certainly has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

Of course they do, they are in the majority.

Then why do they fear a general election so much?

They understand the nature of the trap that The Boris has set. If they
triggered a general election he can set its date to be in November after
he has forced a disastrous no deal Brexit on the country.

There's always some excuse, isn't there?

That’s not an excuse, it’s a fact of life currently.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown
The opposition have to crash his "Brexit do or die" boast into the wall
before they force a general election. Perhaps not even then. I'm not
convinced that Corbyn is capable of biting this particular bullet.

So, he's prepared to leave the country without a functioning government
rather than act in the national interest to solve it?

Corse he is. He's a Trot. They don’t believe in parliamentary govt.
He stupidly sees that as more likely to see parliament become
completely irrelevant. That’s a very fundamental Trot principle.

Post by Norman Wells
What does that say about Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, eh?

That they are mostly Trots now.

Post by Norman Wells
It's all a bit pathetic and shabby, isn't it?

They don’t care that you think that.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 04:34:10 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Post by Rod Speed
Corse he is. He's a Trot.

He isn't. But you are a TROLL, you trolling senile pest!

[Martin Brown]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Norman Wells

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus
Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise.  The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers)
certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

Of course they do, they are in the majority.

Then why do they fear a general election so much?

They understand the nature of the trap that The Boris has set. If they
triggered a general election he can set its date to be in November
after he has forced a disastrous no deal Brexit on the country.

There's always some excuse, isn't there?

I'm prepared for a no deal Brexit. Are you?

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Martin Brown
The opposition have to crash his "Brexit do or die" boast into the
wall before they force a general election. Perhaps not even then. I'm
not convinced that Corbyn is capable of biting this particular bullet.

So, he's prepared to leave the country without a functioning government
rather than act in the national interest to solve it?
What does that say about Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, eh?  It's all a
bit pathetic and shabby, isn't it?

For once I agree with you entirely.

However, The Boris has made his bed so now he lies in it (pun intended).

[dennis@home]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus
Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise.  The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers)
certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

Of course they do, they are in the majority.

Then why do they fear a general election so much?

You keep being told why but you refuse to listen.

Why do you refuse to listen?

[Incubus]

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus
Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise. The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers) certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

Of course they do, they are in the majority.

Then it is incumbent upon them to seek to form a government or pave the way for
a General Election. Until they form a government, they have no mandate to
govern and the speaker allowing them to seize control is an abuse of process.
It's as simple as that.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Incubus

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus
Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise. The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers) certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

Of course they do, they are in the majority.

Then it is incumbent upon them to seek to form a government or pave the way for
a General Election. Until they form a government, they have no mandate to
govern and the speaker allowing them to seize control is an abuse of process.
It's as simple as that.

Indeed.
Remainers are very good at what they dont want, but have no idea what
they do want.

- they don't want brexit
- they don't want a no deal brexit
- they dont want May's deal
- they don't want an election
- they don't want a referendum
- they don't want Boris.

[Incubus]

Post by Stephen Cole

Post by Incubus

Post by ***@home

Post by Incubus
Actually, he does, until such time as a confidence vote or a General Election
says otherwise. The opposition (or rather, the cabal of Remainers) certainly
has no mandate, popular or otherwise.

Of course they do, they are in the majority.

Then it is incumbent upon them to seek to form a government or pave the way for
a General Election. Until they form a government, they have no mandate to
govern and the speaker allowing them to seize control is an abuse of process.
It's as simple as that.

Indeed.
Remainers are very good at what they dont want, but have no idea what
they do want.
- they don't want brexit
- they don't want a no deal brexit
- they dont want May's deal
- they don't want an election
- they don't want a referendum
- they don't want Boris.

They're like spoiled children, really, except children can be calmed down.

[charles]

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable
to see the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The
Opposition to call no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing
happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. They have trampled over precedent
and we now have the bizarre situation where the elected government is not
being allowed to govern. That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

The Supreme Court said:
. But the longer that Parliament stands prorogued, the greater the risk
that responsible government may be replaced by unaccountable
government: the antithesis of the democratic model.

This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

[abelard]

Post by charles

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable
to see the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The
Opposition to call no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing
happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. They have trampled over precedent
and we now have the bizarre situation where the elected government is not
being allowed to govern. That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

. But the longer that Parliament stands prorogued, the greater the risk
that responsible government may be replaced by unaccountable
government: the antithesis of the democratic model.
This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

you are getting confused...
the longer they avoid an election...
the longer they tolerate unelected 'judges' to make
political decisions

the government is presently unaccountable time servers
avoiding the democratically expressed will of the people

[Incubus]

Post by abelard

Post by charles

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable
to see the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The
Opposition to call no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing
happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. They have trampled over precedent
and we now have the bizarre situation where the elected government is not
being allowed to govern. That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

. But the longer that Parliament stands prorogued, the greater the risk
that responsible government may be replaced by unaccountable
government: the antithesis of the democratic model.
This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

you are getting confused...
the longer they avoid an election...
the longer they tolerate unelected 'judges' to make
political decisions
the government is presently unaccountable time servers
avoiding the democratically expressed will of the people

Precisely correct.

[dennis@home]

8<

Post by Incubus

Post by abelard
you are getting confused...
the longer they avoid an election...
the longer they tolerate unelected 'judges' to make
political decisions
the government is presently unaccountable time servers
avoiding the democratically expressed will of the people

Precisely correct.

Yes as long as you remember boris and co are the government, so I have
to agree with you that they are trying everything they can to avoid
democracy.

The real problem is that quite alot of people choose to believe
something else.

[Grik-basturd®™]

Post by charles

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable
to see the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The
Opposition to call no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing
happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. They have trampled over precedent
and we now have the bizarre situation where the elected government is not
being allowed to govern. That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

. But the longer that Parliament stands prorogued, the greater the risk
that responsible government may be replaced by unaccountable
government: the antithesis of the democratic model.
This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

The Nazis prorogued Parliament???

[abelard]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 05:06:46 -0700, Grik-basturd®™

Post by Grik-basturd®™

Post by charles

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable
to see the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The
Opposition to call no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing
happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. They have trampled over precedent
and we now have the bizarre situation where the elected government is not
being allowed to govern. That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

. But the longer that Parliament stands prorogued, the greater the risk
that responsible government may be replaced by unaccountable
government: the antithesis of the democratic model.
This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

The Nazis prorogued Parliament???

permanently...well for a thousand years anyways

[Peeler]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 14:20:05 +0200, abeltard, the notorious, troll-feeding,

Post by abelard

Post by Grik-basturd®™
The Nazis prorogued Parliament???

permanently...well for a thousand years anyways

Was that really necessary, you troll-feeding, senile asshole?

[Grik-basturd®™]

Post by abelard
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 05:06:46 -0700, Grik-basturd®™

Post by Grik-basturd®™

Post by charles

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable
to see the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The
Opposition to call no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing
happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. They have trampled over precedent
and we now have the bizarre situation where the elected government is not
being allowed to govern. That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

. But the longer that Parliament stands prorogued, the greater the risk
that responsible government may be replaced by unaccountable
government: the antithesis of the democratic model.
This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

The Nazis prorogued Parliament???

permanently...well for a thousand years anyways

Is that your autistic conclusion?

[Peeler]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 06:56:37 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous

Post by Grik-basturd®™

Post by abelard
permanently...well for a thousand years anyways

Is that your autistic conclusion?

Is that another demonstration of your clinical insanity, dreckserb?

[charles]

Post by Grik-basturd®™

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite
remarkable to see the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader
Of The Opposition to call no confidence in the Government. Has such
a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the
DUP another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement
renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government
is likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to
lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their
audience up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships
get started. A demagogue who claims to represent "the people"
against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. They have trampled over
precedent and we now have the bizarre situation where the elected
government is not being allowed to govern. That doesn't appear to
concern you one bit.

The Supreme Court said: . But the longer that Parliament stands
prorogued, the greater the risk that responsible government may
be replaced by unaccountable government: the antithesis of the
democratic model.
This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

The Nazis prorogued Parliament???

prorogued is a peculiarly British thing, but they did the German
equivalent.

[abelard]

Post by charles

Post by Grik-basturd®™

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite
remarkable to see the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader
Of The Opposition to call no confidence in the Government. Has such
a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the
DUP another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement
renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government
is likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to
lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their
audience up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships
get started. A demagogue who claims to represent "the people"
against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. They have trampled over
precedent and we now have the bizarre situation where the elected
government is not being allowed to govern. That doesn't appear to
concern you one bit.

The Supreme Court said: . But the longer that Parliament stands
prorogued, the greater the risk that responsible government may
be replaced by unaccountable government: the antithesis of the
democratic model.
This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

The Nazis prorogued Parliament???

prorogued is a peculiarly British thing, but they did the German
equivalent.

what? shooting or starving any opponent?

[Peeler]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 05:06:46 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous

Post by Grik-basturd®™

Post by charles
. But the longer that Parliament stands prorogued, the greater the risk
that responsible government may be replaced by unaccountable
government: the antithesis of the democratic model.
This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

The Nazis prorogued Parliament???

Kinda! Get an education, pedophilic Retardovic!

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Grik-basturd®™

Post by charles

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable
to see the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The
Opposition to call no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing
happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. They have trampled over precedent
and we now have the bizarre situation where the elected government is not
being allowed to govern. That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

. But the longer that Parliament stands prorogued, the greater the risk
that responsible government may be replaced by unaccountable
government: the antithesis of the democratic model.
This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

The Nazis prorogued Parliament???

I think he means that responsible government was replaced by
unaccountable government, the same model that the EU uses.

[Incubus]

Post by charles

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable
to see the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The
Opposition to call no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing
happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The
cabal of Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker
certainly don't represent the people. They have trampled over precedent
and we now have the bizarre situation where the elected government is not
being allowed to govern. That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

. But the longer that Parliament stands prorogued, the greater the risk
that responsible government may be replaced by unaccountable
government: the antithesis of the democratic model.
This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

Er, for how long was Parliament to be prorogued?

[Ian Jackson]

Post by charles
. But the longer that Parliament stands prorogued, the greater the risk
that responsible government may be replaced by unaccountable
government: the antithesis of the democratic model.
This is how the Nazis took power in Germany.

I recently watched the short TV series, "The Rise Of The Nazis". While
it had certain similarities to our present political situation, it's
difficult to envisage a repeat of what happened in Germany in the mid
30s. Mind you, many Germans probably couldn't envisage what was going to
happen either.

[Norman Wells]

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.

*And* the opposition is unwilling to remove it or put it to the
electorate to assume power itself.

It's bizarre and unprecedented game playing.

[Incubus]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Incubus

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Stephen Cole
Aside from the toxic performance last night, it was quite remarkable to see
the Prime Minister essentially begging the Leader Of The Opposition to call
no confidence in the Government. Has such a thing happened before?

Every cloud has a silver lining. At least he won't need to slip the DUP
another billion pound bung for confidence and supply agreement renewal.
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.
It is horrific to watch someone skilled in oratory whip their audience
up into a frenzy. This *is* historically how dictatorships get started.
A demagogue who claims to represent "the people" against parliament...

Yet, your histrionics aside, that is precisely what he is doing. The cabal of
Remainer MPs working in concert with a partisan speaker certainly don't
represent the people. They have trampled over precedent and we now have the
bizarre situation where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.

*And* the opposition is unwilling to remove it or put it to the
electorate to assume power itself.
It's bizarre and unprecedented game playing.

It's a political stalemate and it seems to me that the country loses overall,
whichever side you are on in the "Brexit" debate. They, not Boris, have caused
untold damage to democracy in this country.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

hey have trampled over precedent and we now have the bizarre situation
where the elected government is not being allowed to govern.

An elected government with no outright majority? Who had to bribe another
party to support them?

That doesn't appear to concern you one bit.

You said it, pet.

[Tim Streater]

Post by Martin Brown
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the government is
likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself intending to lose.

Those wanting to make them stay in office until we've been granted a
Brexit extension could agree all to vote that they DID have confidence
in the government. We might then also have the interesting situation
where the Tories voted in unison for NO confidence in themselves.

Anyone know what the purpose of this supposed extension is?

[Joe]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 16:27:33 +0100

Post by Tim Streater

Post by Martin Brown
In this topsy-turvy "through the looking glass" world the
government is likely to move a vote of no confidence in itself
intending to lose.

Those wanting to make them stay in office until we've been granted a
Brexit extension could agree all to vote that they DID have
confidence in the government. We might then also have the
interesting situation where the Tories voted in unison for NO
confidence in themselves.

Anyone know what the purpose of this supposed extension is?

I've already asked that, and nobody here does know what they can do in
three months that they haven't done in the last three months, or in the
last three years, for that matter.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by The Todal
I watched the Commons debate from the point after Boris had left. Anna
Soubry's speech was very poignant. Boris has disgraced himself and has
been reproached by people on both sides of the House.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/25/pm-branded-a-disgrace-after-saying-best-way-to-honour-jo-cox-is-to-deliver-brexit

Oddly every single medioa outrlest I have read today - I wouldnt
pollute my brain with the guardian - says the exact opposite.

More fake news?

[The Todal]

Post by The Todal
I watched the Commons debate from the point after Boris had left. Anna
Soubry's speech was very poignant. Boris has disgraced himself and has
been reproached by people on both sides of the House.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/25/pm-branded-a-disgrace-after-saying-best-way-to-honour-jo-cox-is-to-deliver-brexit

Oddly every single medioa outrlest I have read today  - I wouldnt
pollute my brain with the guardian - says the exact opposite.
More fake news?

Yours is fake news. Educate yourself.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/anger-in-commons-as-boris-johnson-tells-mps-to-deliver-brexit-to-stay-safe-q8mrj5s85

Boris Johnson is facing a backlash from parliamentarians and the widower
of Jo Cox for using an extraordinary appearance in the Commons to tell
MPs that they must deliver Brexit in order to be “properly safe”.

Ms Morgan was the first cabinet minister to wade into the row by saying
she knew that Mr Johnson was “aware of and sympathetic about” threats
MPs received because she had “shared with him recently the threats I am
getting”. She added: “But at a time of strong feelings we all need to
remind ourselves of the effect of everything we say on those watching us.”

The former home secretary Amber Rudd took up Mr Johnson’s reply to Ms
Sherriff. “I think it’s wrong,” she said. “I think this approach is both
dishonest and dangerous. Dishonest because there were legitimate
differences of opinion among different MPs, different factions and we
need to find the common ground, and dangerous because it starts to ramp
up people’s behaviour against the MPs and against different people.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7506615/Boris-Johnson-forced-apologise-furious-Commons-speech.html

Boris Johnson could be forced to apologise for his furious Commons
speech amid backlash for his claim the 'best way to honour' murdered MP
Jo Cox 'is to deliver Brexit'

Opposition MPs responded to Mr Johnson's comments by claiming he has 'no
moral compass of any kind' as they claimed he is 'totally unfit for
office'.

Members of Mr Johnson's Cabinet also appeared to express disquiet at the
remarks.

Anger levels then spiked after Labour MP Paula Sheriff said the PM
'should be absolutely ashamed of himself' over his Brexit rhetoric as
she pointed to Ms Cox's commemorative shield which is on the wall in the
Commons chamber.

Ms Sheriff said: 'We stand here under the shield of our departed friend.
Many of us in this place are subject to death threats and abuse every
single day.

'Let me tell the Prime Minister that they often quote his
words—surrender Act, betrayal, traitor—and I, for one, am sick of it.'

She told the PM politicians 'must moderate our language' but he replied:
'I have to say that I have never heard such humbug in all my life.'

He also said the 'best way to honour the memory of Jo Cox, and indeed to
bring this country together, would be, I think, to get Brexit done'

[dennis@home]

Post by The Todal
I watched the Commons debate from the point after Boris had left. Anna
Soubry's speech was very poignant. Boris has disgraced himself and has
been reproached by people on both sides of the House.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/25/pm-branded-a-disgrace-after-saying-best-way-to-honour-jo-cox-is-to-deliver-brexit

Oddly every single medioa outrlest I have read today  - I wouldnt
pollute my brain with the guardian - says the exact opposite.
More fake news?

more lies from turnip

[Roger Hayter]

Well, that was quite the spectacle. Whilst I didn't expect any humility or
contrition from Johnson, I was genuinely shocked at the level of bombast
and bluster he rolled out, particularly later in the debate as he responded
to backbenchers.
First of all, his opening tantrum came across terribly, particularly so
when immediately compared to Corbyn's response, which was very much "the
adult in the room" in style. Boris was clearly putting on a show but hasn't
the gravitas to pull off the grandstanding; he just looks like a toff at
the debating society, which is unlikely to pick up many working class
"heartlands" votes.

Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a lot of people in said heartlands
who really love to have a toff to look up to and take their opinions
from. This may seem strange to you and I but it is a real thing.

Most upsetting, though, was the later stages. Deeply troubling though it
was to see the Prime Minister goading Labour backbenchers with the
assassination of Jo Cox, it was the clear relish with which he was setting
about on a pre-decided path to whip-up a fervour against Parliament in
order to carry a foul and toxic momentum into a "People vs The
Establishment" General Election. This is the stuff of fascists and tyrants,
and will end badly. Or at least it would if Johnson and his acolytes had
the gumption and talents that they believe they do. Fortunately, the last
few weeks have proved how deeply inadequate these people actually are but
the steps they are taking still carry the potential to set off trouble.
These are interesting times.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Roger Hayter

Well, that was quite the spectacle. Whilst I didn't expect any humility or
contrition from Johnson, I was genuinely shocked at the level of bombast
and bluster he rolled out, particularly later in the debate as he responded
to backbenchers.
First of all, his opening tantrum came across terribly, particularly so
when immediately compared to Corbyn's response, which was very much "the
adult in the room" in style. Boris was clearly putting on a show but hasn't
the gravitas to pull off the grandstanding; he just looks like a toff at
the debating society, which is unlikely to pick up many working class
"heartlands" votes.

Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a lot of people in said heartlands
who really love to have a toff to look up to and take their opinions
from. This may seem strange to you and I but it is a real thing.

Most upsetting, though, was the later stages. Deeply troubling though it
was to see the Prime Minister goading Labour backbenchers with the
assassination of Jo Cox, it was the clear relish with which he was setting
about on a pre-decided path to whip-up a fervour against Parliament in
order to carry a foul and toxic momentum into a "People vs The
Establishment" General Election. This is the stuff of fascists and tyrants,
and will end badly. Or at least it would if Johnson and his acolytes had
the gumption and talents that they believe they do. Fortunately, the last
few weeks have proved how deeply inadequate these people actually are but
the steps they are taking still carry the potential to set off trouble.
These are interesting times.

Toff.... I haven't heard that word for ages..........

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Roger Hayter
Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a lot of people in said heartlands
who really love to have a toff to look up to and take their opinions
from. This may seem stra nge to you and I but it is a real thing.

Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a lot of people in Labour heartlands
who really love to have a complete undeucated lying arsehole to look up
to and take their opinions from. This may seem strange to you and I but
it is a real thing.

[Joe]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 10:18:54 +0100

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Roger Hayter
Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a lot of people in said
heartlands
who really love to have a toff to look up to and take their opinions
from. This may seem stra nge to you and I but it is a real thing.

Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a lot of people in Labour
heartlands who really love to have a complete undeucated lying
arsehole to look up to and take their opinions from. This may seem
strange to you and I but it is a real thing.

Blair won three elections...

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Joe
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 10:18:54 +0100

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Roger Hayter
Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a lot of people in said heartlands
who really love to have a toff to look up to and take their opinions
from. This may seem stra nge to you and I but it is a real thing.

Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a lot of people in Labour
heartlands who really love to have a complete undeucated lying
arsehole to look up to and take their opinions from. This may seem
strange to you and I but it is a real thing.

Blair won three elections...

QED

[JNugent]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Roger Hayter
Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a lot of people in said heartlands
who really love to have a toff to look up to and take their opinions
from.  This may seem stra nge to you and I but it is a real thing.

Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a lot of people in Labour heartlands
who really love to have a complete undeucated lying arsehole  to look up
to and take their opinions from.  This may seem strange to you and I but
it is a real thing.

Oi!

Leave Angela Rayner out of it.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Stephen Cole
Most upsetting, though, was the later stages. Deeply troubling though it
was to see the Prime Minister goading Labour backbenchers with the
assassination of Jo Cox, it was the clear relish with which he was setting
about on a pre-decided path to whip-up a fervour against Parliament in
order to carry a foul and toxic momentum into a ”People vs The
Establishment• General Election.

When Red Robbo, etc, whipped up the masses against the establisment at a
meeting with his rhetoric, it was a 'bad thing'. When a public school boy
attempts the same, he is a man of the people. How easily some are fooled.

[Moomin]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 11:19:55 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

How easily some are

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
fooled.

Joining the Common Market was one such occasion.

[Brian Gaff]

I'm afraid he came over like a spoilt schoolboy who was used to
getting his
own way but now has to take a caning.

The corner both sides are painting themselves into here is of their own
making. If anything is going to make the public give up on politics, this
is. If when it became obvious that parliament could not agree the deal no
deal or stay courses, they should have put those to the people themselves.
its now degenerated into farce and name calling and its just not pretty.
Brian
--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Stephen Cole
Most upsetting, though, was the later stages. Deeply troubling though it
was to see the Prime Minister goading Labour backbenchers with the
assassination of Jo Cox, it was the clear relish with which he was setting
about on a pre-decided path to whip-up a fervour against Parliament in
order to carry a foul and toxic momentum into a "People vs The
Establishment. General Election.

When Red Robbo, etc, whipped up the masses against the establisment at a
meeting with his rhetoric, it was a 'bad thing'. When a public school boy
attempts the same, he is a man of the people. How easily some are fooled.
--
*Born free...Taxed to death.
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Joe]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 16:46:25 +0100

Post by Brian Gaff
If anything is going to make the public give up on
politics, this is.

At which point the government can do whatever it likes, with no
oversight or responsibility.

Is this the intention?