Post by Steve PreskittSuch is the nature of human beings - there
are always going to be those who represent the shallow end of the
intellectual swimming pool, and as I get older, I find more and more
that's something I really can't change and thus I just have to deal with it.
Very true.
Post by Steve PreskittMy take - The parent that leaves a gun out where kids can get to it is
no less a criminal and should be locked up.
Well, true. But that does no good to the kid who accedentally kills themself or
another child. As I said, as a child my parents taught me to handle guns. I
knew where they were in the house and they were never locked up. And you know
what kept me away from them? The fact that I hated them, and only handled them
because my parents wanted me to learn to handle them. But I sometimes wonder
what might have happened if I hadn't found them abhorant. After all I was a kid
who got into lots of other stuff in the house I knew I shouldn't have. I used
Dads power tools without supervision. I sometimes wonder if I left them alone
because I was carefully taught to leave them alone, or if it was just because I
really didn't want anything to do with them in the first place.
Post by Steve PreskittPeople *do* make
mistakes, but is this any worse than Grandpa taking the Buick for a
drive into the local farmer's market?
No arguement. Three years ago, while I was in the process of taking legal
charge of my mother due to her advanced age, she went to the store, hit the gas
pedal instead of the brake and crashed into a tree. Seriously enough to
eventually cause her death. I often have nightmares (Literally) of what might
have happened if another car or a pedistrian had been involved.
Post by Steve PreskittI fully agree that an unjustified shooting is tragic, but certainly no
less tragic than the abused wife who is unable to protect herself from
the abusive husband that's on his third restraining order.
OK, here is another place where I differ with you. Spousal abuse is unspeakably
horrible. But I'm not sure a woman with a gun is the answer. I think we need to
change the legal system so the women (Or in some cases, men.) have quicker
access to protection and safe houses. But that's a whole other issue we don't
need to get into in this thread.
Post by Steve PreskittI guess the point is that we don't live in Utopia, and thus everything
we do as people has to be subject to compromise.
Very true. But optimist that I am, I do believe things are much closer to
Utopia than they were 100 years ago. Even 50 years ago.
Post by Steve PreskittRemember the statistics a few years ago
touting how many felons were stopped from buying guns because of the
Brady Act?
Yeah. But also remember the kids at Colombine bought their weopons at a gun
show without any hassle.
Post by Steve PreskittWell, how many of those felons went to jail for attempting to
buy a gun? After all, that in and of itself was a federal felony, yet
it was enforced by practically no one.
I know what you are trying to say, but to me your arguement is saying we need
stronger regulation on the ability to obtain firearms. Not on making it easier
for people to obtain firearms to defend themselves from those who obtain guns
illegally.
Post by Steve PreskittI think we're coming to the crux of the argument, which is the sanctity
of life.
No arguement.
Post by Steve PreskittPlease don't misunderstand me, I hold life very dear, and will
try to get out of a life-threatening situation without violence if
possible. If that's not possible, it becomes a relative situation - the
lives of myself and my loved ones take precedence over the life of the
guy posing the threat.
And I think this is coming down to a basic philosophy of how you and I would
deal with that situation. For me, I cannot think of agressing on another person
in any way. With a gun. With my fists. (Never in my life, even as a kid in
school, have I been in a fist fight.) As in the case of when I had a gun
pointed at me in a public park, I ran like hell and then called the police. I'm
not saying my way of dealing with the situation was the only solution. But for
ME and me alone, it was the only solution. I could never even consider pointing
a pistol back at another human being. So I guess that's the basis of why I have
a very difficult time seeing the other side of this issue. It's just not in my
nature to even consider a gun for self defense. No matter what. And as such
it's very difficult for me to project myself into the shoes of someone who can.
Post by Steve PreskittI believe that there are a lot of people out
there that would rather die themselves than cause harm to another,
regardless of whether it's justified or not.
Yep. I'm one of those people.
Post by Steve PreskittI'm not one of those
people, and I don't understand the morality of why one would effectively
ask a police officer to sacrifice himself (with the attendant sacrifice
the officer's family would make) in order to protect them when they were
unwilling to do it themselves.
Because it's the profession they have trained for and are skilled to handle.
It's the talent they have chosen for themselves. The same as I don't do my own
taxes. I can't add, so I go to a trained professional to do my taxes for me. I
go to my doctor to heal me when I'm sick or injured because they are trained
and have the skill to do so. I have my talents. A police person has theirs. And
defending the community from criminals is not a talent or skill I possess. And
frankly, I really don't believe the average man on the street posesses, either.
Even after going through the training to carry a concieled handgun.
Post by Steve PreskittDave, I'm not suggesting that's where
you're coming from, so please don't take it as an inflammatory remark,
but for those that feel that way I just don't get it.
No worry. I didn't. And please I hope you know I'm not trying to be inflamatory
either. Just two people having a dialogue. And unlike you, regarding those who
do feel the need to deal with the situation on their own, it's an issue I don't
get.
Post by Steve PreskittPost by Dave in DallasSure. We see things differently. So be it.
Such is the basis for reasonable argument. :-)
And cool discussions. :-)
Post by Steve PreskittPost by Dave in DallasHe sure did. And he got away with it scott free. And as we all know, this
isn't
Post by Dave in Dallasan uncommon occurance.
Why did he get away with it?
Because I didn't think fast enough to get the proper information to the police.
I was in shock and unable to give any description of what the vehicle was like,
the license plate or what the man looked like. It was very sureal and I guess
my mind didn't really accept that it was happening until it was too late.
Post by Steve PreskittI will, you Disney Lover!!!! [nyah, nyah, nyah]
Who you callin' a "Disney Lover" you WDW fan, you! <G>
Dave, Dallas, TX
"When all think alike, no one thinks very much."
Albert Einstein