Applying community license

[Marco Beishuizen]

Hi,

How do I apply the software license? When I run the
ALPHA_COMMUNITY_LICENSE_PAK_SEP_2020.COM I get:

%DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter command with fewer parameters
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character

Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Marco

[Volker Halle]

Marco,

EDIT the procedure and check for and correct obvious DCL errors.

Use $ SET VERIFY and invoke the procedure again, you should see the line associated with the DCL error message.

Volker.

[Chris Townley]

Post by Marco Beishuizen
Hi,
How do I apply the software license? When I run the
%DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter command with fewer parameters
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Marco

Do you have any symbols that conflict with LICENSE?

Chris

[Marco Beishuizen]

Post by Marco Beishuizen
Hi,
How do I apply the software license? When I run the
%DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter command with fewer parameters
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Marco

Never mind found it already. Found that "SET FILE/ATTRIBUTE=(RFM=STM)
ALPHA_CO.COM;1" was needed.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Post by Marco Beishuizen

Post by Marco Beishuizen
Hi,
How do I apply the software license? When I run the
%DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter command with fewer parameters
%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character
Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Marco

Never mind found it already. Found that "SET FILE/ATTRIBUTE=(RFM=STM)
ALPHA_CO.COM;1" was needed.

How was that COM file transferred to your target system? Binary FTP?
You got it in a mail, right? Easiest is to just mark the relevant text
in the mail and <copy>. Then enter "$ CREATE LICS.COM" (or whatever
file name you want) i your target system and <paste>. This of course
depends on that you use some terminal emulator having text copy/paste.

[Marco Beishuizen]

How was that COM file transferred to your target system? Binary FTP? You
got it in a mail, right? Easiest is to just mark the relevant text in
the mail and <copy>. Then enter "$ CREATE LICS.COM" (or whatever file
name you want) i your target system and <paste>. This of course depends
on that you use some terminal emulator having text copy/paste.

By NFS from a FreeBSD system. I did all that before starting the upgrade.

Weird thing now is that when entering a "SHOW LICENSE" I got a long list
with "old" products from DEC, and only two new licenses added to the list
from VSI. Like this:

[...]
VOLSHAD DEC 0 0 100 0.0 (none)
1-JAN-2022
X25 DEC 0 0 100 0.0 (none)
1-JAN-2022
X25-CLIENT DEC 0 0 100 0.0 (none)
1-JAN-2022
X500-ADMIN-FACILIT DEC 0 0 100 0.0 (none)
1-JAN-2022
X500-DIRECTORY-SER DEC 0 0 100 0.0 (none)
1-JAN-2022
ALPHA-LP VSI 0 H 0 0.0 (none)
20-SEP-2021
ALPHA-SYSTEM VSI 0 A 0 0.0 (none)
20-SEP-2021

Hope this goes ok on sep 20th.

[John H. Reinhardt]

Post by Marco Beishuizen

How was that COM file transferred to your target system? Binary FTP? You got it in a mail, right? Easiest is to just mark the relevant text in the mail and <copy>. Then enter "$ CREATE LICS.COM" (or whatever file name you want) i your target system and <paste>. This of course depends on that you use some terminal emulator having text copy/paste.

By NFS from a FreeBSD system. I did all that before starting the upgrade.
[...]
VOLSHAD            DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none) 1-JAN-2022
X25                DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none) 1-JAN-2022
X25-CLIENT         DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none) 1-JAN-2022
X500-ADMIN-FACILIT DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none) 1-JAN-2022
X500-DIRECTORY-SER DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none) 1-JAN-2022
ALPHA-LP           VSI             0  H     0      0.0  (none) 20-SEP-2021
ALPHA-SYSTEM       VSI             0  A     0      0.0  (none) 20-SEP-2021
Hope this goes ok on sep 20th.

That's correct. The VMSSoftware Community License for Alpha is just two PAKS. One covers the OS and one covers all VSI provided Layered Products.

[Marco Beishuizen]

Post by John H. Reinhardt
That's correct. The VMSSoftware Community License for Alpha is just two
PAKS. One covers the OS and one covers all VSI provided Layered
Products.

Only thing left to know is if the layered products need to be upgraded or
not. There is an AVMS842L2LP1.ISO and AVMS842L2LP2.ISO.

Regards,
Marco

[John H. Reinhardt]

That's correct.  The VMSSoftware Community License for Alpha is just two PAKS.  One covers the OS and one covers all VSI provided Layered Products.

Only thing left to know is if the layered products need to be upgraded or not. There is an AVMS842L2LP1.ISO and AVMS842L2LP2.ISO.
Regards,
Marco

They will. The VSI license only works with the Layered Products that VSI supplies. This is due to the "PRODUCER" qualifier on the license. VSI puts "VSI" whereas HP has one of "DEC", "COMPAQ", or "HP". Licenses do no work across PRODUCER values so when the HP Hobbyist license quit on 1-JAN-2022, any Layered Products that are HP will stop.

Check both ISO for Layered Products you need. I do not recall how they are distributed between the two disks.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by John H. Reinhardt
That's correct. The VMSSoftware Community License for Alpha is just
two PAKS. One covers the OS and one covers all VSI provided Layered
Products.

I hope to start my migration to x86 this summer. That implies a mixed
Alpha/x86 cluster (absolutely essential for comparison and using HBVS to
move data to newer disks), which implies a minimum version of VMS from
VSI on Alpha, which might imply EV6 or better hardware and/or upgrading
VMS to some newer version of HP or VSI VMS first (something about
upgrade vs. direct install), so it might be a long path which I need to
plan well.

Is there anything important in the Alpha hobbyist license which is
missing in the Alpha community license? Is there an x86 community
license yet and if so does it significantly differ from the Alpha one?

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
That's correct. The VMSSoftware Community License for Alpha is just
two PAKS. One covers the OS and one covers all VSI provided Layered
Products.

I hope to start my migration to x86 this summer. That implies a mixed
Alpha/x86 cluster (absolutely essential for comparison and using HBVS to
move data to newer disks), which implies a minimum version of VMS from
VSI on Alpha, which might imply EV6 or better hardware and/or upgrading
VMS to some newer version of HP or VSI VMS first (something about
upgrade vs. direct install), so it might be a long path which I need to
plan well.
Is there anything important in the Alpha hobbyist license which is
missing in the Alpha community license? Is there an x86 community
license yet and if so does it significantly differ from the Alpha one?

*This* summer? Really?
Why do you think that you would have anything production-ready on
x86 *this* summer?

How could there be any x86 community *license* when there isn't
even any x86 *community* yet...

[Dave Froble]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
That's correct. The VMSSoftware Community License for Alpha is just
two PAKS. One covers the OS and one covers all VSI provided Layered
Products.

I hope to start my migration to x86 this summer. That implies a mixed
Alpha/x86 cluster (absolutely essential for comparison and using HBVS to
move data to newer disks), which implies a minimum version of VMS from
VSI on Alpha, which might imply EV6 or better hardware and/or upgrading
VMS to some newer version of HP or VSI VMS first (something about
upgrade vs. direct install), so it might be a long path which I need to
plan well.
Is there anything important in the Alpha hobbyist license which is
missing in the Alpha community license? Is there an x86 community
license yet and if so does it significantly differ from the Alpha one?

*This* summer? Really?
Why do you think that you would have anything production-ready on
x86 *this* summer?
How could there be any x86 community *license* when there isn't
even any x86 *community* yet...

Now, now, Jan-Erik. It's Phillip. He has his own little world with
it's own reality. Sure would like to find that x86 VMS CL though.

(Actually, I'll be using an x86 developer license.)

Consider, he's contemplating about the most complex move to x86 he can
imagine. If that's what he likes, fine by me. I'm a bit puzzled how he
will upgrade his Alpha VMS to x86 VMS. Not sure that will be possible.

I'm planning to be a bit simpler. Build a new x86 system disk, and
using BACKUP and save_sets for moving data, sources, and such. Will
need to do some re-compile and linking.

[Chris Townley]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

That's correct.  The VMSSoftware Community License for Alpha is just
two PAKS.  One covers the OS and one covers all VSI provided Layered
Products.

I hope to start my migration to x86 this summer.  That implies a mixed
Alpha/x86 cluster (absolutely essential for comparison and using HBVS to
move data to newer disks), which implies a minimum version of VMS from
VSI on Alpha, which might imply EV6 or better hardware and/or upgrading
VMS to some newer version of HP or VSI VMS first (something about
upgrade vs. direct install), so it might be a long path which I need to
plan well.
Is there anything important in the Alpha hobbyist license which is
missing in the Alpha community license?  Is there an x86 community
license yet and if so does it significantly differ from the Alpha one?

*This* summer? Really?
Why do you think that you would have anything production-ready on
x86 *this* summer?
How could there be any x86 community *license* when there isn't
even any x86 *community* yet...

Now, now, Jan-Erik.  It's Phillip.  He has his own little world with
it's own reality.  Sure would like to find that x86 VMS CL though.
(Actually, I'll be using an x86 developer license.)
Consider, he's contemplating about the most complex move to x86 he can
imagine.  If that's what he likes, fine by me.  I'm a bit puzzled how he
will upgrade his Alpha VMS to x86 VMS.  Not sure that will be possible.
I'm planning to be a bit simpler.  Build a new x86 system disk, and
using BACKUP and save_sets for moving data, sources, and such.  Will
need to do some re-compile and linking.

I think his thinking is good.

I am also excited to get a X86 CL setup whenever I can. Then play with
it, in parallel with AXP, reporting any glitches until it goes main stream

Chris

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

That's correct.  The VMSSoftware Community License for Alpha is just
two PAKS.  One covers the OS and one covers all VSI provided Layered
Products.

I hope to start my migration to x86 this summer.  That implies a mixed
Alpha/x86 cluster (absolutely essential for comparison and using HBVS to
move data to newer disks), which implies a minimum version of VMS from
VSI on Alpha, which might imply EV6 or better hardware and/or upgrading
VMS to some newer version of HP or VSI VMS first (something about
upgrade vs. direct install), so it might be a long path which I need to
plan well.
Is there anything important in the Alpha hobbyist license which is
missing in the Alpha community license?  Is there an x86 community
license yet and if so does it significantly differ from the Alpha one?

*This* summer? Really?
Why do you think that you would have anything production-ready on
x86 *this* summer?
How could there be any x86 community *license* when there isn't
even any x86 *community* yet...

Now, now, Jan-Erik.  It's Phillip.  He has his own little world with it's
own reality.  Sure would like to find that x86 VMS CL though.
(Actually, I'll be using an x86 developer license.)
Consider, he's contemplating about the most complex move to x86 he can
imagine.  If that's what he likes, fine by me.  I'm a bit puzzled how he
will upgrade his Alpha VMS to x86 VMS.  Not sure that will be possible.

Now, to be fair, he did write "migrate", not "update".

I'm planning to be a bit simpler.  Build a new x86 system disk, and using
BACKUP and save_sets for moving data, sources, and such.  Will need to do
some re-compile and linking.

If the shared cluster works, you might be able to share your data disks.
That is how I read Phillips plans.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
*This* summer? Really?
Why do you think that you would have anything production-ready on
x86 *this* summer?

Now, to be fair, he did write "migrate", not "update".

Right.

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

I'm planning to be a bit simpler. Build a new x86 system disk, and using
BACKUP and save_sets for moving data, sources, and such. Will need to do
some re-compile and linking.

If the shared cluster works, you might be able to share your data disks.
That is how I read Phillips plans.

Right. A new cluster can't be set up THAT quickly. And I don't want to
have two in parallel: both more work, and difficult to keep them in
sync. I've done this before, with VAX to Alpha. Not only can one
easily migrate the disks, online, via HBVS, but one can make sure that
everything works on the new hardware before shutting down the old
hardware. I'm thinking about compiled code, for example, which of
course should be tested. Much easier to do it all in the same cluster.

Not only for such migration are both HBVS and clustering (and, for
migration, mixed-architecture clustering) essential.

[John H. Reinhardt]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

That's correct.  The VMSSoftware Community License for Alpha is just
two PAKS.  One covers the OS and one covers all VSI provided Layered
Products.

I hope to start my migration to x86 this summer.  That implies a mixed
Alpha/x86 cluster (absolutely essential for comparison and using HBVS to
move data to newer disks), which implies a minimum version of VMS from
VSI on Alpha, which might imply EV6 or better hardware and/or upgrading
VMS to some newer version of HP or VSI VMS first (something about
upgrade vs. direct install), so it might be a long path which I need to
plan well.

The only Alpha OpenVMS the CLP has from VSI is V8.4-2L1 which runs on any Alpha - EV4 and up. No restrictions.

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Is there anything important in the Alpha hobbyist license which is
missing in the Alpha community license?  Is there an x86 community
license yet and if so does it significantly differ from the Alpha one?

No x86 CLP yet. There's a greyed out option for it but it hasn't been enabled yet.
The CLP for Alpha only includes what Layered Products VSI has produced. This includes the languages BASIC, COBOL, FORTRAN, C and C++, Pascal and the DECSET tools.

What do you consider important?

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
*This* summer? Really?
Why do you think that you would have anything production-ready on
x86 *this* summer?
How could there be any x86 community *license* when there isn't
even any x86 *community* yet...

V9.0-H was released a few days ago. V9.1 is due for June 30, 2021 (See State of the Port) but only for "available to all VSI ISVs, partners, and customers." So unless you're one of those you won't see it until V9.2 which is targeted for "later"; the Roadmap says "2021 - 2nd Half", I think they will be late 2nd half or sometime in 2022. No word on when the CLP will include x86. It would be nice if we were included in the V9.1 since I think some here would be interested in beta testing, but I have doubts that VSI sees it that way.

State of the Port: https://vmssoftware.com/about/state-of-the-port/
Roadmap: https://vmssoftware.com/about/roadmap/

[Craig A. Berry]

V9.0-H was released a few days ago.  V9.1 is due for June 30, 2021 (See
State of the Port) but only for "available to all VSI ISVs, partners,
and customers." So unless you're one of those you won't see it until
V9.2 which is targeted for "later"; the Roadmap says "2021 - 2nd Half",
I think they will be late 2nd half or sometime in 2022.  No word on when
the CLP will include x86.  It would be nice if we were included in the
V9.1 since I think some here would be interested in beta testing, but I
have doubts that VSI sees it that way.

It must be said that there are as yet no commercial licenses for x86-64,
so wondering about community licenses is a little premature. A lot of
hobbyists are also customers, and the definition of partner is a little
bit of a gray area for an EAK release. If VSI follows precedent, it may
not be that hard to get a v9.1 kit for testing purposes. It would have
an expiration date, and only after that, when moving go v9.2, would
people have to worry about what sort of licenses are available.

[Dave Froble]

Post by John H. Reinhardt

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
That's correct. The VMSSoftware Community License for Alpha is just
two PAKS. One covers the OS and one covers all VSI provided Layered
Products.

I hope to start my migration to x86 this summer. That implies a mixed
Alpha/x86 cluster (absolutely essential for comparison and using HBVS to
move data to newer disks), which implies a minimum version of VMS from
VSI on Alpha, which might imply EV6 or better hardware and/or upgrading
VMS to some newer version of HP or VSI VMS first (something about
upgrade vs. direct install), so it might be a long path which I need to
plan well.

The only Alpha OpenVMS the CLP has from VSI is V8.4-2L1 which runs on
any Alpha - EV4 and up. No restrictions.

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Is there anything important in the Alpha hobbyist license which is
missing in the Alpha community license? Is there an x86 community
license yet and if so does it significantly differ from the Alpha one?

No x86 CLP yet. There's a greyed out option for it but it hasn't been enabled yet.
The CLP for Alpha only includes what Layered Products VSI has produced.
This includes the languages BASIC, COBOL, FORTRAN, C and C++, Pascal and
the DECSET tools.
What do you consider important?

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
*This* summer? Really?
Why do you think that you would have anything production-ready on
x86 *this* summer?
How could there be any x86 community *license* when there isn't
even any x86 *community* yet...

V9.0-H was released a few days ago. V9.1 is due for June 30, 2021 (See
State of the Port) but only for "available to all VSI ISVs, partners,
and customers." So unless you're one of those you won't see it until
V9.2 which is targeted for "later"; the Roadmap says "2021 - 2nd Half",
I think they will be late 2nd half or sometime in 2022. No word on when
the CLP will include x86. It would be nice if we were included in the
V9.1 since I think some here would be interested in beta testing, but I
have doubts that VSI sees it that way.
State of the Port: https://vmssoftware.com/about/state-of-the-port/
Roadmap: https://vmssoftware.com/about/roadmap/

Until there are compilers on x86, I think there are very few people who
would get much benefit from V9.1.

There is an upcoming web event on the 27th. VSI x86: Compilers

Wonder what John and his boyz and galz will have for us?

[Robert A. Brooks]

Until there are compilers on x86, I think there are very few people who would
get much benefit from V9.1.
There is an upcoming web event on the 27th.  VSI x86: Compilers
Wonder what John and his boyz and galz will have for us?

The first release of V9.1 will not have native compilers.

Similar to V9.0, there will be the same progression of V9.1 releases,
as in V9.1, V9.1-A, V9.1-B, etc...

[John Reagan]

Post by Dave Froble
Until there are compilers on x86, I think there are very few people who
would get much benefit from V9.1.
There is an upcoming web event on the 27th. VSI x86: Compilers
Wonder what John and his boyz and galz will have for us?
--

"Boyz and galz"?!?! I had to check my system's time to see if I wasn't back in the 1990s.

Just for that, I won't be debuting my BLISS-themed Sea Shanty.

What I will be talking about is the standard background slides on "how we got here", "why LLVM",
"what we get with LLVM", etc. The status of the cross-compilers (no C++, BASIC still work-in-progress).
The status of the native-compilers (we have a early version of clang that runs in OpenVMS x86 that can
compile a good handful of C programs but is struggling with some small C++ programs with an "out of
memory" error - I'm guessing some bogus value was passed to malloc()). I'll talk about the CRTL work
in progress (C99 headers and other items on the list). I'll even talk about the debugger.
Since it is is compiler focused ("toolchain"), it will be a little more technical than the "status of the port"
oriented webinars.

[Simon Clubley]

Post by Dave Froble
There is an upcoming web event on the 27th. VSI x86: Compilers
Wonder what John and his boyz and galz will have for us?

"VSI wishes to announce the release of an Ada compiler for x86-64 VMS." :-)

Seriously however, I know they are still investigating, but I doubt
that is going to happen.

Ada's a nice language. I just wish the compiler situation (on all
operating systems) was better than it currently is.

Simon.

[Zane H. Healy]

Post by Simon Clubley
"VSI wishes to announce the release of an Ada compiler for x86-64 VMS." :-)
Seriously however, I know they are still investigating, but I doubt
that is going to happen.
Ada's a nice language. I just wish the compiler situation (on all
operating systems) was better than it currently is.

Now that would be a dream come true! I have the ancient GNAT on my Alpha,
and the even older DEC Ada. The compiler situation is what keeps me from
being more serious about the language.

Zane

[Chris Townley]

Post by Zane H. Healy

Post by Simon Clubley
"VSI wishes to announce the release of an Ada compiler for x86-64 VMS." :-)
Seriously however, I know they are still investigating, but I doubt
that is going to happen.
Ada's a nice language. I just wish the compiler situation (on all
operating systems) was better than it currently is.

Now that would be a dream come true! I have the ancient GNAT on my Alpha,
and the even older DEC Ada. The compiler situation is what keeps me from
being more serious about the language.
Zane

In the first lockdown, after been made redundant, I had a play with GNAT
2019, and after a few false starts got 2000 odd lines of code working.

Always liked strong typing and trapping bad calls etc, but it is nearly
over the top for a small dev. I did notice that a few bugs caused errors
that were not trapped. Not good, but I dare say with more knowledge I
could better handle. I do vaguely follow comp.lang.ada but a lot of the
discussions go straight over my head!

Chris

[Simon Clubley]

Post by Chris Townley
I do vaguely follow comp.lang.ada but a lot of the
discussions go straight over my head!

:-) :-) :-)

Have a look at what the ARG did with a couple of proposals of mine
from a few years ago and how they changed from my original (hopefully
readable :-) ) proposals into the formal language you see in the standards:

http://www.ada-auth.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/ai12s/ai12-0127-1.txt

http://www.ada-auth.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/ai12s/ai12-0128-1.txt

My original proposals are still in the latest versions of the above AIs
in the appendix section.

Simon.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by John H. Reinhardt
The only Alpha OpenVMS the CLP has from VSI is V8.4-2L1 which runs on
any Alpha - EV4 and up. No restrictions.

OK. I seem to remember two, one which could be installed only directly
and another which could be used for upgrade, and something about older
hardware not being supported. If that's not the case, so much the
better.

Post by John H. Reinhardt

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Is there anything important in the Alpha hobbyist license which is
missing in the Alpha community license?  Is there an x86 community
license yet and if so does it significantly differ from the Alpha one?

No x86 CLP yet. There's a greyed out option for it but it hasn't been
enabled yet. The CLP for Alpha only includes what Layered Products VSI
has produced. This includes the languages BASIC, COBOL, FORTRAN, C and
C++, Pascal and the DECSET tools.
What do you consider important?

For example, clustering and HBVS. TCPIP of course.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
The only Alpha OpenVMS the CLP has from VSI is V8.4-2L1 which runs on
any Alpha - EV4 and up. No restrictions.

OK. I seem to remember two, one which could be installed only directly
and another which could be used for upgrade, and something about older
hardware not being supported.

8.4-2L1: All Alphas.
8.4-2L2: Onle pre EV6-something.
But the are the commercially licensed kits.
I do not know about the CL kit...

Then yes, there was some issues with uppgrade vs. install with
the early VSI VMS kits. But I think that the later kits has full
upgrade/install options.

[Volker Halle]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
8.4-2L2: Onle pre EV6-something.

VSI OpenVMS Alpha V8.4-2L2 is only for EV6 or higher !

Volker.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Post by Volker Halle

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
8.4-2L2: Onle pre EV6-something.

VSI OpenVMS Alpha V8.4-2L2 is only for EV6 or higher !
Volker.

Sorry, got the logic backwards there... :-)

[John H. Reinhardt]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by John H. Reinhardt
The only Alpha OpenVMS the CLP has from VSI is V8.4-2L1 which runs on
any Alpha - EV4 and up. No restrictions.

OK.  I seem to remember two, one which could be installed only directly
and another which could be used for upgrade, and something about older
hardware not being supported.

8.4-2L1: All Alphas.
8.4-2L2: Onle pre EV6-something.
But the are the commercially licensed kits.
I do not know about the CL kit...

The CL supplied kits are V8.4-2L1

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Then yes, there was some issues with uppgrade vs. install with
the early VSI VMS kits. But I think that the later kits has full
upgrade/install options.

V8.4-2L1 was meant to be an "upgrade only" kit but seems to work even as a fresh install. You get two errors about missing files (one a HELP library, the other a DCL CLD file) but if you tell the install to continue, it completes without further error and the missing files are there.

V8.4-2L2 works as either a clean install or an upgrade, but is not available to CLP users.

[Chris Townley]

Post by John H. Reinhardt
V8.4-2L2 works as either a clean install or an upgrade, but is not available to CLP users.

Out of interest, do we know why?

Chris

[John H. Reinhardt]

Post by Chris Townley

Post by John H. Reinhardt
V8.4-2L2 works as either a clean install or an upgrade, but is not available to CLP users.

Out of interest, do we know why?
Chris

No. As an offhand guess, though I'd say it's probably because that version only runs on EV6 and newer Alphas so wouldn't work with anything earlier than the DS10 server or XP1000 workstations. That eliminates all the AlphaStation workstation versions and the earlier servers such as the 2100, 1200, 800 and 4000

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by John H. Reinhardt

Post by Chris Townley

Post by John H. Reinhardt
V8.4-2L2 works as either a clean install or an upgrade, but is not available to CLP users.

Out of interest, do we know why?
Chris

No. As an offhand guess, though I'd say it's probably because that
version only runs on EV6 and newer Alphas so wouldn't work with anything
earlier than the DS10 server or XP1000 workstations. That eliminates
all the AlphaStation workstation versions

Time marches on. My guess is that a large fraction of hobbyists have
EV6 systems.

[Dave Froble]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt

Post by Chris Townley

Post by John H. Reinhardt
V8.4-2L2 works as either a clean install or an upgrade, but is not available to CLP users.

Out of interest, do we know why?
Chris

No. As an offhand guess, though I'd say it's probably because that
version only runs on EV6 and newer Alphas so wouldn't work with anything
earlier than the DS10 server or XP1000 workstations. That eliminates
all the AlphaStation workstation versions

Time marches on. My guess is that a large fraction of hobbyists have
EV6 systems.

You might be very wrong.

I've got 2 EV6 systems, and neither of them are in use.

DS20
DS10L

The only systems running daily are an Alphaserver 800 and a VAXstation
4000 Model 90A.

[Dave Froble]

Post by Chris Townley

Post by John H. Reinhardt
V8.4-2L2 works as either a clean install or an upgrade, but is not
available to CLP users.

Out of interest, do we know why?
Chris

I can guess at two possibilities.

1) VSI perhaps wondered just what happen with using the EV6 switches
when building the OS. I don't know if they exist for anything but C.
Clair mentioned they saw a 15% performance increase in the OS.

2) Some customer really needed every bit of performance, and was willing
to pay for it.

Perhaps VSI might satisfy our curiosity?

[Dave Froble]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
The only Alpha OpenVMS the CLP has from VSI is V8.4-2L1 which runs on
any Alpha - EV4 and up. No restrictions.

OK. I seem to remember two, one which could be installed only directly
and another which could be used for upgrade, and something about older
hardware not being supported.

8.4-2L1: All Alphas.
8.4-2L2: Onle pre EV6-something.

V8.4-2L2 is a special Alpha only release with the compiler switches set
to use EV6 only instructions. I seem to recall that Clair mentioned
that they saw a 15% increase in the performance of the OS with those
options. Note, this didn't do anything for apps, just the OS.

There most likely will not be any more Alpha releases, but, never say never.

The latest itanic release is V8.4-2L3.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by John H. Reinhardt
The only Alpha OpenVMS the CLP has from VSI is V8.4-2L1 which runs on
any Alpha - EV4 and up. No restrictions.

OK.  I seem to remember two, one which could be installed only directly
and another which could be used for upgrade, and something about older
hardware not being supported.

8.4-2L1: All Alphas.
8.4-2L2: Onle pre EV6-something.

Yes, yes, I think everyone knows now that I got that backwards... :-)

V8.4-2L2 is a special Alpha only release with the compiler switches set to
use EV6 only instructions.  I seem to recall that Clair mentioned that they
saw a 15% increase in the performance of the OS with those options.  Note,
this didn't do anything for apps, just the OS.

Well, many/most "apps" uses the OS quite a lot, so "it depends"... :-)
And it could do some for your "DCL apps".

There most likely will not be any more Alpha releases, but, never say never.
The latest itanic release is V8.4-2L3.

[Arne Vajhøj]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Dave Froble
V8.4-2L2 is a special Alpha only release with the compiler switches
set to use EV6 only instructions.  I seem to recall that Clair
mentioned that they saw a 15% increase in the performance of the OS
with those options.  Note, this didn't do anything for apps, just the OS.

Well, many/most "apps" uses the OS quite a lot, so "it depends"... :-)

For most usage then on modern HW the CPU usage of the OS should be
a pretty small fraction of what is available.

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
And it could do some for your "DCL apps".

A bitcoin mining application in DCL may indeed.

But if DCL is used for what DCL is intended for then ...

Arne

[Hans Bachner]

Post by Arne Vajhøj

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Dave Froble
V8.4-2L2 is a special Alpha only release with the compiler switches
set to use EV6 only instructions.  I seem to recall that Clair
mentioned that they saw a 15% increase in the performance of the OS
with those options.  Note, this didn't do anything for apps, just the OS.

Well, many/most "apps" uses the OS quite a lot, so "it depends"... :-)

For most usage then on modern HW the CPU usage of the OS should be
a pretty small fraction of what is available.

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
And it could do some for your "DCL apps".

A bitcoin mining application in DCL may indeed.
But if DCL is used for what DCL is intended for then ...

... it will still see the 15% (or so) improvement. Regardless of how
heavy or light the load on the complete system is.

Each application spends lots of time in system code. It makes use of the
OS, as soon as it uses run time libraries (e.g. comparing strings) or
system services or OS functions (network, volume shadowing, clustering,
...).

Hans.

[Arne Vajhøj]

Post by Hans Bachner

Post by Arne Vajhøj

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Dave Froble
V8.4-2L2 is a special Alpha only release with the compiler switches
set to use EV6 only instructions.  I seem to recall that Clair
mentioned that they saw a 15% increase in the performance of the OS
with those options.  Note, this didn't do anything for apps, just the OS.

Well, many/most "apps" uses the OS quite a lot, so "it depends"... :-)

For most usage then on modern HW the CPU usage of the OS should be
a pretty small fraction of what is available.

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
And it could do some for your "DCL apps".

A bitcoin mining application in DCL may indeed.
But if DCL is used for what DCL is intended for then ...

... it will still see the 15% (or so) improvement. Regardless of how
heavy or light the load on the complete system is.
Each application spends lots of time in system code. It makes use of the
OS, as soon as it uses run time libraries (e.g. comparing strings) or
system services or OS functions (network, volume shadowing, clustering,
...).

My expectation would be that very few VMS systems today are CPU bound
and that very few of those very few are CPU bound in VMS itself (as
opposed to application code).

Kernel stuff should be little on a modern multi core GHz CPU.

Maybe some code that rely heavily on STR$ or MATH$.

Or some really misuse of DCL.

Arne

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Dave Froble

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
The only Alpha OpenVMS the CLP has from VSI is V8.4-2L1 which runs on
any Alpha - EV4 and up. No restrictions.

OK. I seem to remember two, one which could be installed only directly
and another which could be used for upgrade, and something about older
hardware not being supported.

8.4-2L1: All Alphas.
8.4-2L2: Onle pre EV6-something.

V8.4-2L2 is a special Alpha only release with the compiler switches set
to use EV6 only instructions. I seem to recall that Clair mentioned
that they saw a 15% increase in the performance of the OS with those
options. Note, this didn't do anything for apps, just the OS.

But is L2 required to cluster Alpha with x86, or will L1 work as well?

What is the lowest DEC/Compaq/HP(E) version it is possible to upgrade
from?

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by Dave Froble

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
The only Alpha OpenVMS the CLP has from VSI is V8.4-2L1 which runs on
any Alpha - EV4 and up. No restrictions.

OK. I seem to remember two, one which could be installed only directly
and another which could be used for upgrade, and something about older
hardware not being supported.

8.4-2L1: All Alphas.
8.4-2L2: Onle pre EV6-something.

V8.4-2L2 is a special Alpha only release with the compiler switches set
to use EV6 only instructions. I seem to recall that Clair mentioned
that they saw a 15% increase in the performance of the OS with those
options. Note, this didn't do anything for apps, just the OS.

But is L2 required to cluster Alpha with x86, or will L1 work as well?
What is the lowest DEC/Compaq/HP(E) version it is possible to upgrade
from?

There are no functional differences between 2L1 and 2L2, just compiled
with different compiler switches. But, there have been mentioned that
a patch will be needed for Alpha to support Alpha/x86 mixed clusters.
It still well be seen if these comes for both 2L1 and 2L2.
I do not think anyone (officially) knows that today.

[Dave Froble]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by Dave Froble

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
The only Alpha OpenVMS the CLP has from VSI is V8.4-2L1 which runs on
any Alpha - EV4 and up. No restrictions.

OK. I seem to remember two, one which could be installed only directly
and another which could be used for upgrade, and something about older
hardware not being supported.

8.4-2L1: All Alphas.
8.4-2L2: Onle pre EV6-something.

V8.4-2L2 is a special Alpha only release with the compiler switches set
to use EV6 only instructions. I seem to recall that Clair mentioned
that they saw a 15% increase in the performance of the OS with those
options. Note, this didn't do anything for apps, just the OS.

But is L2 required to cluster Alpha with x86, or will L1 work as well?

VMS V8.4-2L2 is never required for anything. It is perhaps an
experiment to see what the EV6 only instructions might do, and since
that's Alpha, not much for the future.

It is my understanding that there is no differences between VMS V8.4-2L1
and V8.4-2L2 other than the compiler switches. This has been well
covered in the past.

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
What is the lowest DEC/Compaq/HP(E) version it is possible to upgrade
from?

I have no idea, I prefer clean installs.

[Hans Bachner]

[snip]
What is the lowest DEC/Compaq/HP(E) version it is possible to upgrade
from?

Well, just read the documentation. Both the VSI OpenVMS Alpha Version
8.4-2L1 SPD and the VSI OpenVMS Alpha Version 8.4-2L1 Upgrade Manual

• HPE Version v8.4 U900, U1000, U1100, U1200
• HPE Version v8.3
• HPE Version v7.3-2

These manuals also give you a (short) list of *supported* AlphaServer
models (all EV6+, DS10 to ES47), but we have learned from VSI
presentations and webinars as well as from postings in this group that
these are the models which were used for testing by VSI. As no features
were removed from HPE VMS when moving on to the VSI build, your chances
are high that the software will run on older models supported by HPE
OpenVMS as well. Just don't request a fix from VSI if a problem shows up.

I personally have/had VSI OpenVMS running on emulated AlphaServers 800
and 4100, among others. This with CHARON-AXP, which emulates the various
hardware models very closely.

Hans.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Hans Bachner

HPE Version v8.4 U900, U1000, U1100, U1200
HPE Version v8.3
HPE Version v7.3-2

OK. I have 7.3-2 and 8.4. But what is U*? Some UPDATE patch? So 8.4
needs to be patched to be upgraded but older versions don't?

Post by Hans Bachner
These manuals also give you a (short) list of *supported* AlphaServer
models (all EV6+, DS10 to ES47), but we have learned from VSI
presentations and webinars as well as from postings in this group that
these are the models which were used for testing by VSI. As no features
were removed from HPE VMS when moving on to the VSI build, your chances
are high that the software will run on older models supported by HPE
OpenVMS as well. Just don't request a fix from VSI if a problem shows up.

That's encouraging.

[John H. Reinhardt]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
The only Alpha OpenVMS the CLP has from VSI is V8.4-2L1 which runs on
any Alpha - EV4 and up. No restrictions.

OK. I seem to remember two, one which could be installed only directly
and another which could be used for upgrade, and something about older
hardware not being supported. If that's not the case, so much the
better.

Technically, V8.4-2L1 is an upgrade only release, meaning it is meant to be installed on top of a previous VSI or HP release, but a number have installed it as a fresh install and found no problems. There are two instances during the install that tell you something is missing but if you tell it to continue, it all finishes.

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Is there anything important in the Alpha hobbyist license which is
missing in the Alpha community license?  Is there an x86 community
license yet and if so does it significantly differ from the Alpha one?

No x86 CLP yet. There's a greyed out option for it but it hasn't been
enabled yet. The CLP for Alpha only includes what Layered Products VSI
has produced. This includes the languages BASIC, COBOL, FORTRAN, C and
C++, Pascal and the DECSET tools.
What do you consider important?

For example, clustering and HBVS. TCPIP of course.

Currently those are included. Initially for Itanium VSI held back the HBVS and other things (RMS Journaling, Clustering, etc) they felt were "Enterprise" features, but they changed later and now both Alpha and Itanium include just about everything that would normally be considered part of OpenVMS.

TCP/IP and DECnet (both IV and OSI) are included.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by John H. Reinhardt

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
No x86 CLP yet. There's a greyed out option for it but it hasn't been
enabled yet. The CLP for Alpha only includes what Layered Products VSI
has produced. This includes the languages BASIC, COBOL, FORTRAN, C and
C++, Pascal and the DECSET tools.
What do you consider important?

For example, clustering and HBVS. TCPIP of course.

Currently those are included. Initially for Itanium VSI held back the
HBVS and other things (RMS Journaling, Clustering, etc) they felt were
"Enterprise" features, but they changed later and now both Alpha and
Itanium include just about everything that

For me, the crucial question is whether all of the above will be in the
x86 community license (or some other affordable license).

Post by John H. Reinhardt
TCP/IP and DECnet (both IV and OSI) are included.

Maybe I will manage to setup DECnet before I move to x86. :-)

[Simon Clubley]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
TCP/IP and DECnet (both IV and OSI) are included.

Maybe I will manage to setup DECnet before I move to x86. :-)

Yes, but which one ? :-)

Simon.

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Simon Clubley

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
TCP/IP and DECnet (both IV and OSI) are included.

Maybe I will manage to setup DECnet before I move to x86. :-)

Yes, but which one ? :-)

Phase IV. Like the Open in OpenVMS, the Phase IV in DECnet Phase IV is
silent. :-)

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by John H. Reinhardt
That's correct. The VMSSoftware Community License for Alpha is just
two PAKS. One covers the OS and one covers all VSI provided Layered
Products.

I hope to start my migration to x86 this summer. That implies a mixed
Alpha/x86 cluster (absolutely essential for comparison and using HBVS to
move data to newer disks), which implies a minimum version of VMS from
VSI on Alpha, which might imply EV6 or better hardware and/or upgrading
VMS to some newer version of HP or VSI VMS first (something about
upgrade vs. direct install), so it might be a long path which I need to
plan well.
Is there anything important in the Alpha hobbyist license which is
missing in the Alpha community license? Is there an x86 community
license yet and if so does it significantly differ from the Alpha one?

*This* summer? Really?

START! See above all the necessary steps which have to be done before
the actual migration.

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Why do you think that you would have anything production-ready on
x86 *this* summer?

No "production", just hobbyist stuff.

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
How could there be any x86 community *license* when there isn't
even any x86 *community* yet...

Chicken and egg?

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Post by Marco Beishuizen

How was that COM file transferred to your target system? Binary FTP? You
got it in a mail, right? Easiest is to just mark the relevant text in the
mail and <copy>. Then enter "$ CREATE LICS.COM" (or whatever file name
you want) i your target system and <paste>. This of course depends on
that you use some terminal emulator having text copy/paste.

By NFS from a FreeBSD system. I did all that before starting the upgrade.
Weird thing now is that when entering a "SHOW LICENSE" I got a long list
with "old" products from DEC, and only two new licenses added to the list
[...]
VOLSHAD            DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none) 1-JAN-2022
X25                DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none) 1-JAN-2022
X25-CLIENT         DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none) 1-JAN-2022
X500-ADMIN-FACILIT DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none) 1-JAN-2022
X500-DIRECTORY-SER DEC             0  0     100    0.0  (none) 1-JAN-2022
ALPHA-LP           VSI             0  H     0      0.0  (none) 20-SEP-2021
ALPHA-SYSTEM       VSI             0  A     0      0.0  (none) 20-SEP-2021
Hope this goes ok on sep 20th.

I also sent this to you directly...

This was sent to my private mail address.
Please make sure that any replies goes (only) to the c.o.v. newsgroup.

[Simon Clubley]

Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
How was that COM file transferred to your target system? Binary FTP?
You got it in a mail, right? Easiest is to just mark the relevant text
in the mail and <copy>. Then enter "$ CREATE LICS.COM" (or whatever
file name you want) i your target system and <paste>. This of course
depends on that you use some terminal emulator having text copy/paste.

And if you get buffer overrun problems with this method, you can use
C-Kermit's transmit command with appropriate options to get the PAKs across.

Simon.