Are the British Behind Iraqi "Suicide Car Bombs"?

Al Qaeda and the Iraqi Resistance Movement

by Michel Chossudovsky

September 18, 2005
GlobalResearch.ca

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You know, I hate to predict violence, but I just understand the
nature of the killers. This guy, Zarqawi, an al Qaeda associate -- who
was in Baghdad, by the way, prior to the removal of Saddam Hussein -- is
still at large in Iraq. And as you might remember, part of his
operational plan was to sow violence and discord amongst the various
groups in Iraq by cold- blooded killing. And we need to help find Zarqawi
so that the people of Iraq can have a more bright -- bright future.
(George W. Bush, Press Conference, 1 June 2004)

US forces are waging a major attack on the Northern city of Tal Afar
directed against the Iraqi resistance.

The US siege on the city, which includes aerial bombardments has resulted
in countless civilians deaths. The bombing raids have led to a
humanitarian crisis marked by the mass exodus, at gun point, of a large
part of Tal Afar's population of some 300,000 people.

Both within the city as well as in the refugee camps, US forces and their
Iraqi counterparts have been involved in a "storming and searching
operation", which has terrorized the civilian population.

Similar in nature to the 2004 siege of Fallujah, the attack on Tal Afar
is casually identified as a US-Iraqi initiative to weed out terrorists.
It involves some 6000 heavily armed US forces and some 4000 Iraqi troops
(Kurdish Peshmerga and Shia Badr Army).

Tal Afar is portrayed by the media as an "Al Qaeda stronghold" under the
leadership of terror mastermind Abu Musab Al Zarqawi. The city is close
to the Syrian border and Syria is identified as facilitating the movement
of "terrorists" into Iraq.

Iraqi and US troops are said to be "going after" so-called "foreign
fighters", who are "mostly religious zealots and Sunni fanatics".

While the media reports focus on the presence of "foreign fighters", most
of the resistance fighters in Tal Afar are Iraqis. There have been no
reliable reports of mass arrests of foreign fighters. (See Statement of
Colonel Robert Brown, US State Department, States News Services, 14
September 2005).

There are an estimated 400 to 500 Iraqi fighters. Reports suggest that
most of the resistance fighters have abandoned the city:

It is estimated that 90% of the residents have left their homes
because of the violence and destruction of the siege, as well as to avoid
home raids and snipers.

The Fallujah model is being applied yet again, albeit on a smaller
scale...

While the US military claims to have killed roughly 200 "terrorists"
in the operation, reports from the ground state that most of the fighters
inside the city had long since left to avoid direct confrontation with
the overwhelming military force (a basic tenet of guerrilla warfare).

(See Dahr Jamail,

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20050916&articleId=959
)

The US military has identified the Euphrates region as a "Zarqawi
stronghold" and plans, according to The New York Times, to wage similar
operations in other cities in the following weeks:

[S]enior officials at the Pentagon and in Iraq say they believe that
Mr. Zarqawi and the insurgency's ''center of gravity'' is now in the
bends and towns of the Euphrates River valley near the Syrian border.

Commanders say they plan to squeeze the Zarqawi leadership and Iraqi
insurgents in those areas. Throughout the spring and summer marines and
Army forces staged raids into those same towns, confiscating weapons and
killing scores of insurgents. But many fighters melted into the
countryside, and there were not enough coalition troops to keep a
sufficient presence in the villages.

Commanders say new offensives in Anbar Province in coming weeks will
be modeled on the siege of Tal Afar, which used 8,500 American and Iraqi
troops. (New York Times, 17 September 2005)

According to UPI, hundreds of families from Samara situated on the bank
of the river Tigris, were fleeing the city (18 September) following an
announcement by Iraqi Defense Minister Saadoun al-Duleimi of a planned
military attack against the city to "cleanse it from the terrorists."

Media Blackout

There has been a virtual blackout on what is actually happening in Tal
Afar. The humanitarian crisis and the plight of civilians is not an
object of media attention or debate. Moreover, there are no details on
the precise nature of the military operation from the embedded newsman in
the war theater. In fact, it would appear that the embedded media has
also been excluded.

Most of the reports out of Iraq are focusing on the suicide bombings in
Shia populated areas, which have led to some than 200 civilian deaths.

Without evidence, these suicide attacks are described as part of Musab Al
Zarqawi's "counter-offensive", as "acts of revenge" for the attacks on
Tal Afar.

In a text published on a mysterious website, Al Zarqawi is said to have
pledged to wage an all out war against the Shia majority in retribution
for the attacks against the Sunni in Tal Afar:

"Abu Musab al- Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, appeared to
claim responsibility [ for the suicide attacks], posting an announcement
on a website that "the battle to avenge the Sunnis of Tal Afar has begun"

In a twisted logic, Tal Afar is being presented as part of "a sectarian
war" between Shia and Sunni in which the US military and the
"international community" are presented as mediators. Yet Tal Afar is a
predominantly ethnic Turkomen city. Thirty percent of its Turkomen
population are Shia, who are also the victims of the US led military
operation. (See Irish Times, 14 September 2005).

Yet Zarqawi's website postings which point to "the battle to avenge the
Sunnis", seems to be inconsistent with the demographic composition of the
city, which includes a significant Shia population and where Sunni Arabs
are a small minority.

Last year, the Turkish government had pressured the US not to intervene
militarily in Tal Afar.

"Turkey will end cooperation with the United States in Iraq in case
attacks on Turkomens continue," said Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah
Gul (Anatolia news agency, Ankara, 15 September 2004).

And the planned 2004 US military operation directed against the Turkomen
population of Tal Afar was consequently delayed. There are indications
that the September 2005 operation has been accepted by the Turkish
authorities.

Terrorist mastermind Al Zarqawi, which personifies the insurgency, is
presented as a the main obstacle to democracy in Iraq.

Meanwhile, the role of US occupation forces and their countless
atrocities receive little or no coverage. "The terrorists are still at
large". The task of the US-led "multinational force" is to "prevent and
deter terrorism".

"Able Danger" and "Al Qaeda in Iraq"

The media in chorus presents "Al Qaeda in Iraq" headed by Al Zarqawi as
responsible for the recent suicide bombings, without ever mentioning that
Al Qaeda is a creation of the US intelligence apparatus. This
relationship is acknowledged by the CIA and documented in numerous
studies.(See
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20010912&articleId=368
)

A recent report concerning a secret Pentagon operation, now being
discussed in the US Congress, casts serious doubt not only on the
official 9/11 narrative, but on the entire "war on terrorism" construct.
In the case of Iraq, this construct consists in presenting the resistance
movement as "terrorists":

"According to Army reserve Lieutenant-Colonel Anthony Shaffer, a top
secret Pentagon project code-named Able Danger had identified Atta and
three other 9/11 hijackers as members of an al-Qaida cell more than a
year before the attacks.

Able Danger was an 18-month highly classified operation tasked,
according to Shaffer, with developing targeting information for al-Qaida
on a global scale, and used data-mining techniques to look for
patterns, associations, and linkages. He said he himself had first
encountered the names of the four hijackers in mid-2000."

(See Daniele Ganser, Operation Able Danger,

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20050827&articleId=867

Al Qaeda operatives including 9/11 ringleader Mohamed Atta had been under
the direct surveillance of the US military and intelligence at least one
year prior to 9/11 as part of a top secret operation of the Pentagons
Special Operations Command (SOCOM).

"Able Danger" confirms what is already known and documented: The official
9/11 narrative as outlined by the 9/11 Commission constitutes a cover-up.

"Blowback"

The revelations also refute the "blowback", namely that Al Qaeda, created
by the CIA during the Soviet-Afghan war, has somehow gone against its US
sponsors. The latter are still actively involved in overseeing their
intelligence asset in the context of a top secret Pentagon Operation.

Moreover, the revelations concerning Operation "Able Danger" have a
direct bearing on our understanding of Al Zarqawi and the alleged Al
Qaeda sponsored suicide bombings in Iraq.

Are these Al Qaeda operations in Iraq also under the surveillance of the
Pentagon?

The numerous documented links regarding the relationship between the CIA
to the Islamic Terror Network, cast doubt on the media reports, which
present "Al Qaeda in Iraq" headed by Al Zarqawi as an independent
paramilitary organization fighting US forces.

In other words, if Al Qaeda in Iraq, the intelligence asset, is
(indirectly) controlled by the Pentagon and/or the CIA, it cannot
reasonably constitute a real resistance movement directed against the US
military occupation.

An intelligence asset, in the case of Iraq is an instrument of the
occupying forces.

Is "Al Qaeda in Iraq" being used by the US military to weaken the real
resistance movement, while creating divisions within Iraqi society?

The Suicide Bombings

What is the role of the Zarqawi sponsored suicide attacks?

They serve to present the resistance movement as terrorists. They
undermine public support within Iraq for the resistance movement against
US occupation. The latter, composed of several different groups, is
characterized by a guerilla army involved in targeted operations directed
against the US military.

The media reports, which center on the role of Al Zarqawi and bin Laden,
serve to distort the nature of the resistance movement, presenting the
insurgents as attacking civilians:

AL-QA'IDA had proved itself to be "a ruthless, sectarian gang" by
declaring war on Iraq's Shias, the Lebanese daily said in response to Abu
Musab al- Zarqawi's recent call, which "illustrates that al-Qa'ida has
lost any and every possible claim it may have had to moral, noble or
rational objectives". ( the Star, Beirut, 17 September 2005)

Al-Qa'ida's leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al- Zarqawi, claimed
responsibility for the latest wave of violence and declared all-out war
on the Shi'ites.

Calling for international assistance, Iraqi President Jalal Talabani
said his country was "not hesitant to openly and frankly say we are in
desperate need of ... your support for our efforts to fight terrorism" (
The Australian, 17 Sept 2005)

In Iraq, four suicide bombers again struck in Baghdad, killing 31 and
bringing the two-day death toll to 200, as al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu
Musab al- Zarqawi sought to inflame the ethnic and religious divisions
between Sunni and Shiite Arabs. However, the US military is confident its
recent operations targeting Al Qaeda in Iraq have been successful despite
the recent violence.

The CBS Evening News (9/15, story 6, 2:00, Martin) reported it was
"gruesome evidence of Abu Musab Al- Zarqawi's declaration of all-out war
against the Shiites who control the government of Iraq. Zarqawi's Website
claims the carnage in Baghdad is revenge for an assault by US and Iraqi
troops on the town of Tal Afar near the Syrian border, a hub for
insurgent operations in northern Iraq, where the US military says it has
scored dramatic successes." (Frontrunner, 16 September 2005)

The attacks came as Iraqi leaders claimed to have finalised a
constitution, and as the Iraqi branch of al-Qaeda swore to avenge a
recent US-Iraqi offensive on the north-eastern town of Tal Afar. The
one-day death toll was possibly the highest in the capital since March
2003, and one of the attacks - a suicide car bomb in the predominantly
Shia north Baghdad neighborhood of Kadhemiya that killed 117 people - was
the second deadliest single blast.... Witnesses said that no US or Iraqi
military or police targets were in the vicinity, suggesting that the
attacker had aimed to cause as much civilian carnage as possible.
(Financial Times, 15 September 2005)

Concluding Remarks

Has the US created, as part of a covert intelligence operation, a bogus
"resistance movement" made up of its own Al Qaeda sponsored "terrorists"?
Their suicide attacks target Iraqi civilians rather than the US military.

The suicide bombings tend to encourage sectarian divisions not only
within Iraq, but throughout the entire Middle East. They serve
Washington's interests. They contribute to undermining the development of
a broader resistance movement uniting Shia, Sunni, Kurds and Christians
against the illegal occupation of the Iraqi homeland. They also tend to
create, at the international level, divisions within the antiwar and
peace movements.

Moreover, the disinformation campaign also permeates the Iraqi and Middle
East press. The latter tend to take the alleged Al Zarqawi's statements
published on the internet at face value. The Zarqawi threat to the Shia
is seen as genuine. The links between Al Qaeda in Iraq and US
intelligence is rarely mentioned.

Related article

Who is Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi? by Michel Chossudovsky, 11 June 2004,
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO405B.html

Michilín

2005-09-23 16:04:40 UTC

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:40:22 +0100, Michael O'Neill
<***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote:

soc.culture.irish,soc.culture.iraq,soc.culture.afghanistan,
soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.org.fbi,
alt.politics.org.cia,talk.politics.european-union

More horseshit.

Post by Michael O'Neill
Who is Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi? by Michel Chossudovsky,

Russian conspiracty theorists are ten a penny. I guess you wouldn't
know that as you only hang around sophisticated cities like Belfast
and Christchurch.

Murchadh

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-26 09:25:52 UTC

Post by MichilÃn
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:40:22 +0100, Michael O'Neill
soc.culture.irish,soc.culture.iraq,soc.culture.afghanistan,
soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.org.fbi,
alt.politics.org.cia,talk.politics.european-union
More horseshit.

Post by Michael O'Neill
Who is Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi? by Michel Chossudovsky,

Russian conspiracty theorists are ten a penny. I guess you wouldn't
know that as you only hang around sophisticated cities like Belfast
and Christchurch.
Murchadh

I've been to Belfast once that I can recall, as for Christchurch, never.

Once more, you profess knowldge of me that I deny, yet you never name
your source or even seem able read my posts' headers.

You look like a twat when you make these unsupported statements.

M.

Khalil

2005-09-23 13:04:34 UTC

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:38:36 +0100, Michael O'Neill

Post by Michael O'Neill
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20050920&articleId=972
British "Undercover Soldiers" Caught driving Booby Trapped Car
"They refused to say what their mission was."
September 20, 2005
GlobalResearch.ca
The following Reuters report raises some disturbing questions.
Why were undercover British "soldiers" wearing traditional Arab
headscarves firing at Iraqi police?
The incident took place just prior to a major religious event in Basra.
The report suggests that the police thought the British soldiers looked
"suspicious". What was the nature of their mission?
Occupation forces are supposesd to be collaborating with Iraqi
authorities. Why did Britsh Forces have to storm the prison using tanks
and armoured vehicles to liberate the British undercover agents?
"British forces used up to 10 tanks " supported by helicopters " to
smash through the walls of the jail and free the two British servicemen."
Was there concern that the British "soldiers" who were being held by the
Iraqi National Guard would be obliged to reveal the nature and objective
of their undercover mission?
A report of Al Jazeera TV, which preceeded the raid on the prison,
suggests that the British undercover soldiers were driving a booby
trapped car loaded with ammunition. The Al Jazeera report (see below)
also suggests that the riots directed against British military presence
were motivated because the British undercover soldiers were planning to
[Anchorman Al-Habib al-Ghuraybi] We have with us on the telephone
from Baghdad Fattah al-Shaykh, member of the Iraqi National Assembly.
What are the details of and the facts surrounding this incident?
[Al-Shaykh] In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate.
There have been continuous provocative acts since the day before
yesterday by the British forces against the peaceful sons of Basra. There
have been indiscriminate arrests, the most recent of which was the arrest
of Shaykh Ahmad al-Farqusi and two Basra citizens on the pretext that
they had carried out terrorist operations to kill US soldiers. This is a
baseless claim. This was confirmed to us by [name indistinct] the second
secretary at the British Embassy in Baghdad, when we met with him a short
while ago. He said that there is evidence on this. We say: You should
come up with this evidence or forget about this issue. If you really want
to look for truth, then we should resort to the Iraqi justice away from
the British provocations against the sons of Basra, particularly what
happened today when the sons of Basra caught two non-Iraqis, who seem to
be Britons and were in a car of the Cressida type. It was a booby-trapped
car laden with ammunition and was meant to explode in the centre of the
city of Basra in the popular market. However, the sons of the city of
Basra arrested them. They [the two non-Iraqis] then fired at the people
there and killed some of them. The two arrested persons are now at the
Intelligence Department in Basra, and they were held by the National
Guard force, but the British occupation forces are still surrounding this
department in an attempt to absolve them of the crime.
[Al-Ghuraybi] Thank you Fattah al-Shaykh, member of the National
Assembly and deputy for Basra.
Text of report by Qatari Al-Jazeera satellite TV on 19 September
(emphasis added)
Is this an isolated incident or is part of a pattern?
More significantly, have the occupation forces been involved in similar
Ten Iraqis - seven police commandos, two civilians and a child - were
killed and more than 10 others wounded in the explosion of two car bombs
near two checkpoints in Al-Mahmudiyah and Al-Latifiyah south of Baghdad
while hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were heading towards the city of
Karbala to mark the anniversary of a religious event.
And in a significant incident in the city of Basra, which is also
marking the same religious event, Iraqi demonstrators set fire to two
British tanks near a police station after Iraqi police had arrested two
British soldiers disguised in civilian clothes for opening fire on
police. Eight armoured British vehicles surrounded the police station
before the eruption of the confrontations. A policeman at the scene said
the two detained Britons were wearing traditional Iraqi jallabahs [loose
cloaks] and wigs.
[Italics added]
An indepth independent inquiry should be ordered by Britain's House of
Commons into the circumstances of this event.
Michel Chossudovsky
Global Research Editor, 20 Sept 2005

More info, and the uncensored pics here

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread171758/pg2

Falcon

2005-09-23 13:30:18 UTC

"Khalil" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
[...]

Post by Khalil
More info, and the uncensored pics here

Hmm. Accurate information too.
"These men are from the Forces Recovery Unit..."
<snigger>

--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
"You've presented nothing but waffle and unsubstantiated allegations."
Connor [Terry] O'Brien.

Terry

2005-09-23 14:13:48 UTC

Post by Falcon
[...]

Post by Khalil
More info, and the uncensored pics here

Hmm. Accurate information too.
"These men are from the Forces Recovery Unit..."
<snigger>

What a thick ignorant cunt you are!

Obviously English isn't her first language and I expect that Recovery
and Research are the same word in Arabic or whatever she speaks. Not
that a useless eejit like you would ever think of that.

She has you Brit terrorist cunts well sussed anyway and nice to see
the pictures that Brit media have been censoring all over the place.

Fuckin hypocrites!

Falcon

2005-09-23 15:34:54 UTC

Post by Falcon
[...]

Post by Khalil
More info, and the uncensored pics here

Hmm. Accurate information too.
"These men are from the Forces Recovery Unit..."
<snigger>

What a thick ignorant cunt you are!
Obviously English isn't her first language and I expect that Recovery
and Research are the same word in Arabic or whatever she speaks. Not
that a useless eejit like you would ever think of that.
She has you Brit terrorist cunts well sussed anyway and nice to see
the pictures that Brit media have been censoring all over the place.
Fuckin hypocrites!

That anger management course just isn't working, is it?

--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
"You've presented nothing but waffle and unsubstantiated allegations."
Connor [Terry] O'Brien.

westprog

2005-09-23 15:50:13 UTC

...

Post by Terry
What a thick ignorant cunt you are!

...

Post by Terry
a useless eejit like you

...

Post by Terry
you Brit terrorist cunts

...

Post by Terry
Fuckin hypocrites!

That anger management course just isn't working, is it?
--
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
"You've presented nothing but waffle and unsubstantiated allegations."
Connor [Terry] O'Brien.

westprog

2005-09-23 15:53:37 UTC

...

Post by Terry
What a thick ignorant cunt you are!

...

Post by Terry
a useless eejit like you

...

Post by Terry
you Brit terrorist cunts

...

Post by Terry
Fuckin hypocrites!

That anger management course just isn't working, is it?

There you go again with the ad hominems. Why can't you just calmly debate
the issues like Conor?

J/

SOTW: "Five Feet High And Rising" - Johnny Cash

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=13&articleID=000DA0E2-1E
15-128A-9E1583414B7F0000
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/collapse.html

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-26 09:33:31 UTC

Post by Falcon
[...]

Post by Khalil
More info, and the uncensored pics here

Hmm. Accurate information too.
"These men are from the Forces Recovery Unit..."
<snigger>

What a thick ignorant cunt you are!
Obviously English isn't her first language and I expect that Recovery
and Research are the same word in Arabic or whatever she speaks. Not
that a useless eejit like you would ever think of that.
She has you Brit terrorist cunts well sussed anyway and nice to see
the pictures that Brit media have been censoring all over the place.
Fuckin hypocrites!

That anger management course just isn't working, is it?

I think its a course on focussed anger.

Making it work for you, not repressing it.

But I suppose you prefer emotional repression...

M.

westprog

2005-09-26 10:37:11 UTC

...

Post by Terry
Fuckin hypocrites!

That anger management course just isn't working, is it?

I think its a course on focussed anger.
Making it work for you, not repressing it.
But I suppose you prefer emotional repression...

One doesn't wish to leave one's emotions slopping out all over the place in
an untidy fashion for everyone to see.

J/

SOTW: "Five Feet High And Rising" - Johnny Cash

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=13&articleID=000DA0E2-1E
15-128A-9E1583414B7F0000
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/collapse.html

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-26 10:48:34 UTC

Michilín, you're in trouble.

Post by westprog
...

Post by Terry
Fuckin hypocrites!

That anger management course just isn't working, is it?

I think its a course on focussed anger.
Making it work for you, not repressing it.
But I suppose you prefer emotional repression...

One doesn't wish to leave one's emotions slopping out all over the place in
an untidy fashion for everyone to see.

Hmmm.

*Neat* emotional repression.

Tighter and tighter.

LOL!

M.

westprog

2005-09-26 11:12:03 UTC

Post by Michael O'Neill
Michilín, you're in trouble.

Post by westprog
...

Post by Terry
Fuckin hypocrites!

That anger management course just isn't working, is it?

I think its a course on focussed anger.
Making it work for you, not repressing it.
But I suppose you prefer emotional repression...

One doesn't wish to leave one's emotions slopping out all over the place in
an untidy fashion for everyone to see.

Hmmm.
*Neat* emotional repression.
Tighter and tighter.
LOL!

Fuck off you conspiracy theory lawyer bastard.

J/

SOTW: "Five Feet High And Rising" - Johnny Cash

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=13&articleID=000DA0E2-1E
15-128A-9E1583414B7F0000
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/collapse.html

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-26 11:15:21 UTC

Post by Michael O'Neill
Michilín, you're in trouble.

Post by westprog
...

Post by Terry
Fuckin hypocrites!

That anger management course just isn't working, is it?

I think its a course on focussed anger.
Making it work for you, not repressing it.
But I suppose you prefer emotional repression...

One doesn't wish to leave one's emotions slopping out all over the place

Post by westprog
an untidy fashion for everyone to see.

Hmmm.
*Neat* emotional repression.
Tighter and tighter.
LOL!

Fuck off you conspiracy theory lawyer bastard.

How

did

you

know

that

I

was

a

BASTARD????!?!!!!111!1!1!1!!!!!!

*BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!111!!!!

M.

westprog

2005-09-26 13:27:05 UTC

"Michael O'Neill" <***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote in message news:***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie...
...

Post by Michael O'Neill
But I suppose you prefer emotional repression...

One doesn't wish to leave one's emotions slopping out all over the place

Post by westprog
an untidy fashion for everyone to see.

Hmmm.
*Neat* emotional repression.
Tighter and tighter.
LOL!

Fuck off you conspiracy theory lawyer bastard.

How
did
you
know
that
I
was
a
BASTARD????!?!!!!111!1!1!1!!!!!!
*BWAHA<snip>HA!!!!!111!!!!

I had it all figured out from the blow up photographs.

J/

SOTW: "Five Feet High And Rising" - Johnny Cash

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=13&articleID=000DA0E2-1E
15-128A-9E1583414B7F0000
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/collapse.html

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-28 10:00:50 UTC

Post by westprog
...

Post by Michael O'Neill
But I suppose you prefer emotional repression...

One doesn't wish to leave one's emotions slopping out all over the

place

Post by westprog
in

Post by westprog
an untidy fashion for everyone to see.

Hmmm.
*Neat* emotional repression.
Tighter and tighter.
LOL!

Fuck off you conspiracy theory lawyer bastard.

How
did
you
know
that
I
was
a
BASTARD????!?!!!!111!1!1!1!!!!!!
*BWAHA<snip>HA!!!!!111!!!!

I had it all figured out from the blow up photographs.

Pervert.

M.

Walter B.

2005-09-28 10:43:24 UTC

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:00:50 +0100, Michael O'Neill
<***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote:

<snip 100+ lines of immature drivel>

shouldn't you be at school?

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-28 13:10:35 UTC

Post by Walter B.
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:00:50 +0100, Michael O'Neill
<snip 100+ lines of immature drivel>
shouldn't you be at school?

I didn't know that hitting the return key constituted "drivel".

Are you imply you tried to read between the lines?

<splutter!>

Loosen your undergarments there Walter B.

You appear to be overheating.

M.

PS setting the follow-ups to alt.arsehole, now THAT'S immature.

Michilín

2005-09-23 16:00:21 UTC

Post by Falcon
[...]

Post by Khalil
More info, and the uncensored pics here

Hmm. Accurate information too.
"These men are from the Forces Recovery Unit..."
<snigger>

What a thick ignorant cunt you are! Terry.

Khalil is a man's name.

Post by Terry
Obviously English isn't her first language and I expect that Recovery
and Research are the same word in Arabic or whatever she speaks. Not
that a useless eejit like you would ever think of that.

Tthey are not the same word in Arabic. Stupid suggestion.

Post by Terry
She has you Brit terrorist cunts well sussed anyway and nice to see
the pictures that Brit media have been censoring all over the place.

They're SAS members - that's why the British keep their pictures
secret. Do you want to post your picture so I know who to aim at when
the Troubles start up again? Grow up, for Christ's sake!

Just to reassure you - I don't expect ever to see you over my sights -
I know if there's trouble, you'll be long gone.

Post by Terry
Fuckin hypocrites!

Murchadh

Terry

2005-09-23 16:07:58 UTC

Post by Falcon
[...]

Post by Khalil
More info, and the uncensored pics here

Hmm. Accurate information too.
"These men are from the Forces Recovery Unit..."
<snigger>

What a thick ignorant cunt you are! Terry.
Khalil is a man's name.

It wasn't Khalil who wrote "Forces Recovery Unit", you thick plonker.

It was Syrian Sister in the forum!!

Tthey are not the same word in Arabic. Stupid suggestion.

Course they are, you dick-wanker. Research and Recovery are
indistinguishable at both a conceptual and practical level.

You're well on your way to making as big a fool of yourself over this
as you did when you tried to take me on with your pisspoor knowledge
of Victor Hugo

Know your limits!

Post by Terry
She has you Brit terrorist cunts well sussed anyway and nice to see
the pictures that Brit media have been censoring all over the place.

They're SAS members - that's why the British keep their pictures
secret.

Yes, but they've broken the law and killed a policeman. and were
sprung from jail. Now they're on teh run.

You're not going to get all hypocritical about this now, are you

Michilín

2005-09-24 17:16:16 UTC

Post by Falcon
[...]

Post by Khalil
More info, and the uncensored pics here

Hmm. Accurate information too.
"These men are from the Forces Recovery Unit..."
<snigger>

What a thick ignorant cunt you are! Terry.
Khalil is a man's name.

It wasn't Khalil who wrote "Forces Recovery Unit", you thick plonker.
It was Syrian Sister in the forum!!

Tthey are not the same word in Arabic. Stupid suggestion.

Course they are, you dick-wanker. Research and Recovery are
indistinguishable at both a conceptual and practical level.

Really? Why don't you tell us the word then so we can all learn
something.

Post by Terry
You're well on your way to making as big a fool of yourself over this
as you did when you tried to take me on with your pisspoor knowledge
of Victor Hugo

I think you have me confused with your male lover. I have never
mentioned Victor Hugo in SCI as far as I am aware. Why would I? Who
here would ever have heard of him?

Post by Terry
Know your limits!

Post by Terry
She has you Brit terrorist cunts well sussed anyway and nice to see
the pictures that Brit media have been censoring all over the place.

I'm not a Brit terrorist cunt. I'm as Irish as you, you pretentious
jumped-up jackeen - probably more so because I don't have any gipsies
or travellers in my family tree, nor were my maternal ancestors
gangbanged by the Vikings and Cromwell's soldiers.

Post by MichilÃn
They're SAS members - that's why the British keep their pictures
secret.

Yes, but they've broken the law and killed a policeman. and were
sprung from jail. Now they're on teh run.

They're not on the run. They're almost certainly on their way back to
the UK.

You're being very Irish/deceptive, aren't you? They were challenged by
a group composed of mixed police and Shia Militia, who have already
killed a bunch of Brits. So they did their best to shoot their way
out, just like the IRA does when attacked by old women or children.

Post by Terry
You're not going to get all hypocritical about this now, are you

Of course not. I'm trying to get you and the truth a little closer to
each other - without much success I must say.

Murchadh

Terry

2005-09-25 09:59:15 UTC

Post by Khalil
More info, and the uncensored pics here

Hmm. Accurate information too.
"These men are from the Forces Recovery Unit..."
<snigger>

What a thick ignorant cunt you are! Terry.
Khalil is a man's name.

It wasn't Khalil who wrote "Forces Recovery Unit", you thick plonker.
It was Syrian Sister in the forum!!

Tthey are not the same word in Arabic. Stupid suggestion.

Course they are, you dick-wanker. Research and Recovery are
indistinguishable at both a conceptual and practical level.

Really? Why don't you tell us the word then so we can all learn
something.

Show me you're worth the time and effort.

Post by Terry
You're well on your way to making as big a fool of yourself over this
as you did when you tried to take me on with your pisspoor knowledge
of Victor Hugo

I think you have me confused with your male lover. I have never
mentioned Victor Hugo in SCI as far as I am aware.

Ahh right. You were pissed when you wrote this then. Mighta guessed.

"Victor Hugo (1802-1885), Les Misérables"

Michilín

http://tinyurl.com/9vgq4

Post by MichilÃn
Why would I? Who
here would ever have heard of him?

There was a time when even associate membership of SCI required an
indepth understanding of the works of Shakespeare, Hugo, Einstein,
Joyce and Myles.

Alas, I'm the last of that happy bunch

Post by Terry
Know your limits!

Post by Terry
She has you Brit terrorist cunts well sussed anyway and nice to see
the pictures that Brit media have been censoring all over the place.

I'm not a Brit terrorist cunt. I'm as Irish as you

No you're not Patterson. You're a Borders Lowlander, half English half
Scot

And no amount of bluff and bollocks can hide that simple fact.

Post by Terry
Yes, but they've broken the law and killed a policeman. and were
sprung from jail. Now they're on teh run.

They're not on the run. They're almost certainly on their way back to
the UK.

Yeah. On the run!

I hope Iraq vigorously pursues their extradition

Walter B.

2005-09-25 10:54:20 UTC

On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:59:15 +0100, Terry <***@hotmail.com>
wrote:

<huge snip>

Post by Terry
I hope Iraq vigorously pursues their extradition

What a vindictive little shit you are

Michilín

2005-09-25 14:17:17 UTC

Post by Khalil
More info, and the uncensored pics here

Hmm. Accurate information too.
"These men are from the Forces Recovery Unit..."
<snigger>

What a thick ignorant cunt you are! Terry.
Khalil is a man's name.

It wasn't Khalil who wrote "Forces Recovery Unit", you thick plonker.
It was Syrian Sister in the forum!!

Tthey are not the same word in Arabic. Stupid suggestion.

Course they are, you dick-wanker. Research and Recovery are
indistinguishable at both a conceptual and practical level.

Really? Why don't you tell us the word then so we can all learn
something.

Show me you're worth the time and effort.

As we all know, you're just bullshitting again in the hope of
impressing the more gullible posters. Why don't you admit that you're
a know-nothing jackeen and clear your conscience, Mr. Know-It-All?

Post by Terry
You're well on your way to making as big a fool of yourself over this
as you did when you tried to take me on with your pisspoor knowledge
of Victor Hugo

I think you have me confused with your male lover. I have never
mentioned Victor Hugo in SCI as far as I am aware.

Ahh right. You were pissed when you wrote this then. Mighta guessed.
"Victor Hugo (1802-1885), Les Misérables"
Michilín
http://tinyurl.com/9vgq4

Imagine that! I see the argument was inconclusive. Does this mean that
the world has now come to an end? Or dos it mean that you are a
manic-obsessive who remembers every occasion on which he were
contradicted and has waited impatiently ever since for a chance to
strike back?

Have you ever thought of getting a life?

Post by MichilÃn
Why would I? Who
here would ever have heard of him?

There was a time when even associate membership of SCI required an
indepth understanding of the works of Shakespeare, Hugo, Einstein,
Joyce and Myles.
Alas, I'm the last of that happy bunch

Post by Terry
Know your limits!

Post by Terry
She has you Brit terrorist cunts well sussed anyway and nice to see
the pictures that Brit media have been censoring all over the place.

I'm not a Brit terrorist cunt. I'm as Irish as you

No you're not Patterson. You're a Borders Lowlander, half English half
Scot

I haven't a drop of English blood in my veins.

Post by Terry
And no amount of bluff and bollocks can hide that simple fact.

Post by Terry
Yes, but they've broken the law and killed a policeman. and were
sprung from jail. Now they're on teh run.

They're not on the run. They're almost certainly on their way back to
the UK.

Yeah. On the run!
I hope Iraq vigorously pursues their extradition

Why don't you get up to date? There is a protocol betwen the UK and
Iraq which prevents British soldiers from being prosecuted by the
Iraqi administration but only by the British themselves. The same is
true of the US and other forces, which is why the torture trials are
all conducted by the appropriate army and not by the Iraqi
administration.

Hope this helps clear up your usual confusion...
Murchadh

John P. Mullen

2005-09-24 03:35:01 UTC

Post by Falcon
[...]

Post by Khalil
More info, and the uncensored pics here

Hmm. Accurate information too.
"These men are from the Forces Recovery Unit..."
<snigger>

Changing the subject again, I see.

:-/

John Mullen

Walter B.

2005-09-23 15:16:58 UTC

Post by Khalil

Post by Michael O'Neill
Global Research Editor, 20 Sept 2005

More info, and the uncensored pics here
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread171758/pg2

LOL
Childish Photoshop job.
Do you want a few more hundreds pics of guys with a bit of elastoplast
copy&pasted on top of their head?

Terry

2005-09-23 15:39:58 UTC

Post by Walter B.

Post by Khalil

Post by Michael O'Neill
Global Research Editor, 20 Sept 2005

More info, and the uncensored pics here
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread171758/pg2

LOL
Childish Photoshop job.

Why would they need to do a photoshop job, eh brains?

Obviously they're showing the uncensored versions in Arab media.

The only people doing a photoshop job were the Brits and Yanks in
censoring the pictures.

And anyway why are Brit and American media censoring the pictures of
wanted on the run terrorists? They don't normally do that, do they?

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-26 09:34:56 UTC

Post by Khalil

Post by Michael O'Neill
Global Research Editor, 20 Sept 2005

More info, and the uncensored pics here
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread171758/pg2

LOL
Ch-<SLAP!>

Shaddap, Fool.

M.

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-26 09:31:44 UTC

Post by Khalil
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:38:36 +0100, Michael O'Neill

More info, and the uncensored pics here
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread171758/pg2

Thanks for that. Didn't know about that forum. The Bush supporter's
bleating looks sad.

As I said before, the civil war must be fermented to get Bush "people
with influence" accepted by the Iraqis.

Thsi allows the US biggest base outside north America to be maintained in
position to threaten Iran and Saudi and support Israel.

And its not because they need the oil.

They HAVE oil wells. Capped them. They want to use the oil everywhere
else and they expect people to pay through the nose for THEIR oil!

But htey've overplayed their hand. Now everyone realises that local
alternative energy sources are the way to go, and dependence on oil will
decrease everywhere but the United States.

As prices rise, oil will become less attractive as a commodity and
alternative will take over. America ca nstill lead in those markets if it
plays its cards right. Rapeseed oil in particular shows a reasonable
return per acre.

But this reverses the strategy of the capitalists, who wanted to remove
powere from the landowners and the strengthening of society that such
power structures bring to local communities.

Large populations are easier to control if they live in fear, as opposed
to get comforted by their neighbours in a close-knit community.

FWIW

M.

Michilín

2005-09-23 15:50:30 UTC

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:38:36 +0100, Michael O'Neill
<***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote:

Here are all the groups you spammed with this story:

soc.culture.irish,soc.culture.iraq,soc.culture.afghanistan,
soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.org.fbi,
alt.politics.org.cia,talk.politics.european-union
(I have added soc.culture.scottish, a group to which you post from
time to time, where some people think you seem "okay" so there are no
misunderstandings about that.)

Nowhere do you disclose your personal reasons for spamming this story,
namely that until recently you worked for a leading member of the IRA
Army Council, the directing authority for terrorism in Northern
Ireland and the British mainland, not to mention the perpetrator of
numerous other criminal acts from drug dealing to bank robbery and
murders including the recent killing of Robert MacCartney, an innocent
customer in a bar frequented by some of the most notorious criminals
involved with the IRA and Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland.

The fact that you were/are periphally involved with an illegal
criminal organization is something that subscribers to the above
groups should be aware of before accepting your "news reports" at face
value, don't you think? I know that it will be a challenging moment,
dealing with the truth rather than lies and propaganda, but why not
stand up and be counted, so we all know precisely who you are, apart
from being a principal in O'Neill Quigley & Associates?

Murchadh

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-26 10:40:08 UTC

Post by Khalil
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:38:36 +0100, Michael O'Neill
soc.culture.irish
soc.culture.iraq,
soc.culture.afghanistan,
soc.culture.british
soc.culture.usa,
alt.politics.org.fbi,
alt.politics.org.cia
talk.politics.european-union
(I have added soc.culture.scottish,
a group to which you post from
time to time, where some people
think you seem "okay" so there are no
misunderstandings about that.)
Nowhere do you disclose your personal
reasons for spamming this story,
namely that until recently you worked
for a leading member of the IRA
Army Council, the directing authority
for terrorism in Northern
Ireland and the British mainland, not
to mention the perpetrator of
numerous other criminal acts from drug
dealing to bank robbery and
murders including the recent killing
of Robert MacCartney, an innocent
customer in a bar frequented by some
of the most notorious criminals
involved with the IRA and Sinn Fein
in Northern Ireland.
The fact that you were/are periphally
involved with an illegal
criminal organization is something
that subscribers to the above
groups should be aware of before
accepting your "news reports" at face
value, don't you think? I know that
it will be a challenging moment,
dealing with the truth rather than
lies and propaganda, but why not
stand up and be counted, so we all
know precisely who you are, apart
from being a principal in
O'Neill Quigley & Associates?
Murchadh

===================================================

Posting private information to Usenet is usually considered
a Termination of Service Offence [look it up with your ISP].

Michilín, you're in trouble.

===================================================

You have stated, for some obscure reason, two things, firstly:

"until recently you worked for a leading member of the IRA Army Council"

I cannot claim to know everything my clients do, but all are respectable
businessmen and women and as far as I know none of them have direct
connections to the IRA.

Secondly you state:

"you were/are periphally involved with an illegal criminal organization"

I have never been directly or indirectly involved with ANY illegal
criminal organization.

==================================================

I don't "work" for anybody.

I am self-employed.

I am a qualified professional of over ten years standing.

I am not now, not have I ever been a member of any political
organization, including the mainstream political parties.

I am not now, not have I ever been, a member of a proscribed organization
liable for prosecution under any law in the Republic of Ireland or the
United Kingdom.

I am not now, nor have I ever been, under criminal investigation for any
crime or placed under suspicion of any crime or named in any criminal
investigation, nor have I ever been suspected of membership of any
criminal group or paramilitary organization.

=================================================

You may have me confused with someone else.

There are at least three Michael O'Neill's that I know working in the
professions in the Leinster area. None match the description you give
above.

Up until now you've confined yourself to incorrect assertions as to where
I've been or visited. I've always corrected you where I've seen your
posts - I'm sure there are a few I've missed.

I hadn't realised your growing obsession with me.

My motivation is simple.

I detest people in positions of supreme authority who trade in lies and
corruption and hypocrisy.

For this reason I despise Prime Minister Tony Blair for leading Britain
into the invasion and occupation of Iraq under false pretences.

I despise President George Walker Bush for the same reasons.

===============================================

Here is your current position.

You have libelled me twice in a public forum.

Both of these libels are serious libels, alleging criminal behaviour on
my part and seeking to detract from my good name on which I depend for my
professional standing.

You will get 24 hours to post proof of your assertions, or else retract
your remarks and apologize to me on all the groups on which you have
libelled me.

After that I will seek out your ISP and inform them of your unsupported
allegations. I presume you're with Saw Cable.

===============================================

As an aside, perhaps you'll explain why you're so quick to defend the
apparently criminal actions of two British agents, not by denying the
charges against them, but by mounting a libellous ad hominem against me.

M.

Michilín

2005-09-26 14:39:12 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:40:08 +0100, Michael O'Neill

Nonsense.

Post by Michael O'Neill
===================================================
"until recently you worked for a leading member of the IRA Army Council"
I cannot claim to know everything my clients do, but all are respectable
businessmen and women and as far as I know none of them have direct
connections to the IRA.

You may wish to consider this:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May 11 2003, 1:43 pm show options

Newsgroups: ni.politics, soc.culture.irish,
uk.current-events.n-ireland
From: Telmey® <Telmey ITOUT @ ntlworld.com > - Find messages by this
author
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:43:46 +0100
Local: Sun, May 11 2003 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: New IRA statements in full
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original
| Report Abuse

An anon jury found Nik O'Kiwi <***@email.com> guilty of
posting this;
You still avoided his question,

I'd say your Boss in the press office is more than a little worried
(he was on TV 2day) as he was very close to Stakeknife and allegedly
may have even given assistance / orders to murder many people.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THis is just a sample as I fel disinclined to wade through mountains
of your deathless prose to dig up a specific admission on your part,
but if needed...

In fact you yourself told me that you worked for Sinn Fein as a press
officer. And as your boss Gerry Adams recently announced his
resignation from the IRA Army Council, I think there is enough
implicit in all that to suggest that this will be another unsuccessful
attempt to shift any blame onto the shoulders of others, and away from
yourself.

There is one further point:

There is a legal principle: He who seeks equity (justice) must come
with clean hands. Given the vast record of your lies and evasions, I
doubt that even the blatant judge oand supporter of your cause could
dismiss the substantial body of evidence you have been good enough to
amass showing precisely how clean your hands actually are. It's the
legal equivalent of "pot, kettle, black"

Perhaps you may wish to rethink your position..

Post by Michael O'Neill
"you were/are periphally involved with an illegal criminal organization"
I have never been directly or indirectly involved with ANY illegal
criminal organization.
==================================================
I don't "work" for anybody.
I am self-employed.
I am a qualified professional of over ten years standing.
I am not now, not have I ever been a member of any political
organization, including the mainstream political parties.
I am not now, not have I ever been, a member of a proscribed organization
liable for prosecution under any law in the Republic of Ireland or the
United Kingdom.
I am not now, nor have I ever been, under criminal investigation for any
crime or placed under suspicion of any crime or named in any criminal
investigation, nor have I ever been suspected of membership of any
criminal group or paramilitary organization.
=================================================
You may have me confused with someone else.
There are at least three Michael O'Neill's that I know working in the
professions in the Leinster area. None match the description you give
above.
Up until now you've confined yourself to incorrect assertions as to where
I've been or visited. I've always corrected you where I've seen your
posts - I'm sure there are a few I've missed.
I hadn't realised your growing obsession with me.
My motivation is simple.
I detest people in positions of supreme authority who trade in lies and
corruption and hypocrisy.
For this reason I despise Prime Minister Tony Blair for leading Britain
into the invasion and occupation of Iraq under false pretences.
I despise President George Walker Bush for the same reasons.
===============================================
Here is your current position.
You have libelled me twice in a public forum.
Both of these libels are serious libels, alleging criminal behaviour on
my part and seeking to detract from my good name on which I depend for my
professional standing.
You will get 24 hours to post proof of your assertions, or else retract
your remarks and apologize to me on all the groups on which you have
libelled me.
After that I will seek out your ISP and inform them of your unsupported
allegations. I presume you're with Saw Cable.
===============================================
As an aside, perhaps you'll explain why you're so quick to defend the
apparently criminal actions of two British agents, not by denying the
charges against them, but by mounting a libellous ad hominem against me.
M.

Murchadh

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-26 16:41:02 UTC

Michilín wrote:

<snip previous posts>
---------------------------------

Post by MichilÃn
May 11 2003, 1:43 pm show options
Newsgroups: ni.politics, soc.culture.irish,
uk.current-events.n-ireland
- Find messages by this
author
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:43:46 +0100
Local: Sun, May 11 2003 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: New IRA statements in full
Reply to Author | Forward | Print |
Individual Message | Show original
| Report Abuse
posting this;

On Sun, 11 May 2003 13:25:04 +0100, Telmey®

You still avoided his question,
I'd say your Boss in the press office
is more than a little worried
(he was on TV 2day) as he was very
close to Stakeknife and allegedly
may have even given assistance /
orders to murder many people.

-------------------------------

Post by MichilÃn
THis is just a sample as I fel
disinclined to wade through mountains
of your deathless prose to dig up a
specific admission on your part,
but if needed...

===================================================

You posted nothing from me in the piece above.

***@email.com comes up on google groups.
Also Nik O'Kiwi.
***@email does too.

I am none of the above.

What made you think I was?

I've checked my Sent files which at the moment
contains posts to SCI going back to 27th September 2004
and cannot find any post on 11 May 2005 that remotely
the one you posted above.

I am not Telmey nor Nik O'Kiwi, whoever he is.

The correct way to repost messages
from the Sent file is like this:

=========================================================
=========================================================
=========================================================

X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
Message-ID: <***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie>
Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 22:46:56 +0100
From: Michael O'Neill <***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie>
Organization: O'Neill Quigley & Associates
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (WinNT; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: soc.culture.irish
Subject: Re: Real Pain... er Player
References: <***@4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Post by MichilÃn
WTF do I have to update Real Player
every time I download the latest version
and it won't play the music it was
playing happily before I "Updated" to the
"latest version"
Ray

<snip>

I wish someone would come up with a
Player that plays everything, .rm
files, .mov files, .mpeg files, .wmv files,
.avi files with DivX codecs,
the lot!

M.

=========================================================
=========================================================
=========================================================

In it, you get the Message ID and the
attribution marks, that show which posted
said what. Your post screws them up a bit
but its still possible to see that none
of the comments came from
***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie.
I don't use aliases or sock
puppets and the "bwahahaha" spamblock
is easy to recognize and omit.

Its better to copy and paste from
a newsreader because then you get
the posting host too and that means
you can check for forgeries.

=========================================================

Post by MichilÃn
In fact you yourself told me that you
worked for Sinn Fein as a press
officer. And as your boss Gerry Adams
recently announced his
resignation from the IRA Army Council,
I think there is enough
implicit in all that to suggest that
this will be another unsuccessful
attempt to shift any blame onto the
shoulders of others, and away from
yourself.

=========================================================

You are totally out of order here.
You post a message that shows it
didn't come from me, but involved
Telmey and Nik O'Kiwi, and then
you make MORE unsupported allegations.
You are heading for a fall.

=========================================================

Post by MichilÃn
There is a legal principle: He who
seeks equity (justice) must come
with clean hands. Given the vast record
of your lies and evasions, I
doubt that even the blatant judge oand
supporter of your cause could
dismiss the substantial body of evidence
you have been good enough to
amass showing precisely how clean your
hands actually are. It's the
legal equivalent of "pot, kettle, black"
Perhaps you may wish to rethink your position..

<snip previous posts>

=========================================================

Again you compound your previous libel.
The 24-hour limit is removed. The previous
post and the one I'm responding to will
be sent to ***@shaw.ca in due course.
You might want to prepare your ISP.

Couple of points.

First of all, you haven't
posted ONE lie or evasion from me.
The one post you *did* post was not
from me, to me, or about me.

You have made serious libels against
me without a shred of supporting
documentation, messages or proof
and I have denied the allegation.

You have compounded the crime
by the previous post.

The onus is on you to post proof,
and convincing proof, of your assertions.

I have been impersonated on Usenet
before and have reported the matter
to the appropriate Newsgroups.

I had hoped you would produce a forged
post or series of posts that I could
track down and deal with and
enlighten you on the way.

You have neither posted proof of
what you say I said, nor have you
posted messages purportedly
from me but actually forged.

You have posted nothing.

==================================================

Not wanting to leave any stones unturned,

I went looking for the mysterious

***@email.com

and the more

mysterious

***@email.com

It seems the latter is google's

abbreviation of the former.

It seems that several people use the addy,
or one guy with several nics.

Here are a few I googled just now.

"Post Colonial Boy" <***@email.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

"WCB" <***@email.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

"Post Post Colonial Boy" <***@email.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

Aemon <***@email.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

======================================================

Now in case you're having trouble keeping up, Michiiín,

I state again, I am neither Telmey NOR
the person using the addy
***@email.com

If you thought I was, you'd better backpedal
furiously, because right now most people reading
this have begun to realise you cannot read
either messaged headers OR attributions OR
NNTP posting host addresses.

In other words, that you are, in short, clueless.

Let me restate once again: I don't use aliases.

Unless ***@indigo.ie is in the e-mail it isn't from me.

Retract and apologize, please, Michilín.

You are wrong and your libels are serious enough
to warrant me taking legal action against you.

M.

westprog

2005-09-26 20:25:56 UTC

"Michael O'Neill" <***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote in message news:***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie...
...

Post by Michael O'Neill
I state again, I am neither Telmey NOR
the person using the addy
If you thought I was, you'd better backpedal
furiously, because right now most people reading
this have begun to realise you cannot read
either messaged headers OR attributions OR
NNTP posting host addresses.

Just for the record - this is undoubtedly true. Not only that, there is no
possibility that most people would confuse Michael O'Neill with Nik
Warrenson.

I've seen nothing to indicate that Michael O'Neill is a Sinn Fein follower,
though he might have some common beliefs with them. I dare say I have myself
if I dig deep enough.

J/

SOTW: "Five Feet High And Rising" - Johnny Cash

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=13&articleID=000DA0E2-1E
15-128A-9E1583414B7F0000
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/collapse.html

Michilín

2005-09-27 03:06:13 UTC

...

Post by Michael O'Neill
I state again, I am neither Telmey NOR
the person using the addy

I know you are not Telmey because he is a clear, distinct persona.

I have assumed that ":Nik", "Michael O'Neill" and Post Post Colonial
Boy are one and the same person as none of these personae have given
me any reason to believe that they were not.

So who is the person who worked for Sinn Fein as a press officer?

How many of these personae come from New Zealand.

In a word, which of the three, if any, is telling the truth?

Murchadh

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-27 10:10:04 UTC

...

Post by Michael O'Neill
I state again, I am neither Telmey NOR
the person using the addy

I know you are not Telmey because he is a clear, distinct persona.
I have assumed that ":Nik",
"Michael O'Neill" and Post Post Colonial
Boy are one and the same person as none
of these personae have given
me any reason to believe that they were not.
So who is the person who worked
for Sinn Fein as a press officer?
How many of these personae
come from New Zealand.
In a word, which of the three,
if any, is telling the truth?
Murchadh

====================================================

*I* am telling the truth!

I have no reaso nto lie or use sock puppets.

Michilín, you libelled me in nine public forums.

You didn't even check NNTP posting hosts, did you? A simple matter for
ANYONE to do with a modicum of Usenet savvy.

Now retract your libel of me and apologize and let's finish this in a
civil manner.

M.

"I have assumed that ":Nik", "Michael O'Neill" and Post Post Colonial Boy
are one and the same person as none of these personae have given me any
reason to believe that they were not."

-- Michilín proves that the road to public embarrassment is paved with
illogical assumptions in <***@news>

westprog

2005-09-27 10:51:44 UTC

Post by MichilÃn
I have assumed that ":Nik",
"Michael O'Neill" and Post Post Colonial
Boy are one and the same person as none
of these personae have given
me any reason to believe that they were not.

That sounds like a good game.

Let me see - since I have recieved no assurances that Unki, Mary Harney and
Tiger Woods are not the same person, I must assume that they are. Not my
fault.

J/

SOTW: "Five Feet High And Rising" - Johnny Cash

King Amdo

2005-09-27 11:21:33 UTC

Why not merely accept that you are now in Ireland?....just forget the
fucking british trip for gods sakes. I mean the british, the british
state is horrific for christis sake...just some ridiculas if it wasn't
so abusive colonial pile of fucking bullshit....even in England. Fuck
the britsh masons queeny etc and fuck the church of rome fildth also.
Wake up, sort yourselves out.

Blessed be.

T N Nurse

2005-09-27 12:12:00 UTC

Post by King Amdo
Why not merely accept that you are now in Ireland?....just forget the
fucking british trip for gods sakes. I mean the british, the british
state is horrific for christis sake...just some ridiculas if it wasn't
so abusive colonial pile of fucking bullshit....even in England. Fuck
the britsh masons queeny etc and fuck the church of rome fildth also.
Wake up, sort yourselves out.

Posted through NTL, a British company ..hmmm..

westprog

2005-09-27 15:42:19 UTC

At last some sound practical advice.

Post by King Amdo
Blessed be.

And you, your majesty.

J/

SOTW: "Five Feet High And Rising" - Johnny Cash

T N Nurse

2005-09-27 12:04:55 UTC

Post by Michael O'Neill
====================================================
*I* am telling the truth!
I have no reaso nto lie or use sock puppets.
Michilín, you libelled me in nine public forums.
You didn't even check NNTP posting hosts, did you? A simple matter for
ANYONE to do with a modicum of Usenet savvy.

Ah but these don't tell you the whole story. Those who run sock puppet
accounts are usually well aware of the this and know NNTP Posting
Host ties then to a specific machine. All they have to do is hop to
a different machine and they have a different NNTP Posting host and
claim "Hey! It can't be me, NNTP Posting Host is different!". As
such, internet cafes make a handy resource for determined sock
puppeteers.

Of course whether this is the case her, I know not and care even less.
Just FYI only.

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-27 14:15:21 UTC

Post by T N Nurse

Ah but these don't tell you the whole story. Those who run sock puppet
accounts are usually well aware of the this and know NNTP Posting
Host ties then to a specific machine. All they have to do is hop to
a different machine and they have a different NNTP Posting host and
claim "Hey! It can't be me, NNTP Posting Host is different!". As
such, internet cafes make a handy resource for determined sock
puppeteers.
Of course whether this is the case her, I know not and care even less.
Just FYI only.

Well, yes and no.

Usually forging headers is a TOS offence, and the people whodo it
routinely oftne end up on Altopia with deal olf Chris Caputo, if he's
still running it. If altopia, alt.net or whatever the current monicker
for that ISP is, is in the reference headers, you can guess its a
forgery.

The NNTP headers of "ordinary" posts are liable to change every time yo
use a DIALUP connection and occassionally if you switch your broadband
connection on and off. You can also scan for unprotected networks and use
other peoples connections with wireless broadband.

But all the bullshit stops when you check the RANGE of the NNTP headers.
Each ISP is allocated a range and a proggie like Neotrace can confirm the
location of the poster reasonably quickly.

IN addition, posters tend to use typical speech patterns in their posts.
That means that a staistical analysis of word counts and phrases can
often uncover even a completely forged posting host.

However none of the above affects Michilín, who didn't even bother to
check the posting host address OR notice the different personalities,
content, views and writing styles obvious between the posters in
question.

M.

westprog

2005-09-27 15:44:09 UTC

"Michael O'Neill" <***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote in message news:***@bwahahaha.indigo.ie...
...

Post by Michael O'Neill
IN addition, posters tend to use typical speech patterns in their posts.
That means that a staistical analysis of word counts and phrases can
often uncover even a completely forged posting host.

Nik is one of the posters who's used a number of different identities, and
he's still instantly recognisable.

Post by Michael O'Neill
However none of the above affects Michilín, who didn't even bother to
check the posting host address OR notice the different personalities,
content, views and writing styles obvious between the posters in
question.

Is Warrenson Swedish for O'Neill?

J/

SOTW: "Five Feet High And Rising" - Johnny Cash

Séimí mac Liam

2005-09-27 15:57:24 UTC

Post by westprog
...

Nik is one of the posters who's used a number of different identities, and
he's still instantly recognisable.

Is Warrenson Swedish for O'Neill?
J/
SOTW: "Five Feet High And Rising" - Johnny Cash

Only if yer da's name is Warren.

--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99

Michilín

2005-09-27 15:12:40 UTC

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:10:04 +0100, Michael O'Neill

...

Post by Michael O'Neill
I state again, I am neither Telmey NOR
the person using the addy

I know you are not Telmey because he is a clear, distinct persona.
I have assumed that ":Nik",
"Michael O'Neill" and Post Post Colonial
Boy are one and the same person as none
of these personae have given
me any reason to believe that they were not.
So who is the person who worked
for Sinn Fein as a press officer?
How many of these personae
come from New Zealand.
In a word, which of the three,
if any, is telling the truth?
Murchadh

You still have not answered my questions about who is the press office
employee at Sinn Fein and who is from New Zealand.

I don't give a damn what you or your friends think about my Usenet
savvy. I have no need of your approval.

Post by Michael O'Neill
"I have assumed that ":Nik", "Michael O'Neill" and Post Post Colonial Boy
are one and the same person as none of these personae have given me any
reason to believe that they were not."
-- Michilín proves that the road to public embarrassment is paved with

I am not proving anything - I'm not publically embarrassed. I don't
give a damn what anyone thinks about me.

I read this with interest:

Michael O'Neill

Post by Michael O'Neill
*I* am telling the truth!
I have no reaso nto lie or use sock puppets.
Michilín, you libelled me in nine public forums.
You didn't even check NNTP posting hosts, did you? A simple matter for
ANYONE to do with a modicum of Usenet savvy.

and then read this:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TN Nurse from SCS:
Ah but these don't tell you the whole story. Those who run sock puppet

accounts are usually well aware of the this and know NNTP Posting
Host ties then to a specific machine. All they have to do is hop to
a different machine and they have a different NNTP Posting host and
claim "Hey! It can't be me, NNTP Posting Host is different!". As
such, internet cafes make a handy resource for determined sock
puppeteers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
So Mr. O'Neill, it seems that even now you are not being entirely
honest.

If a libel was committed, then it was committed in Canada because that
is where I legally sit and type my posts. I would welcome your
appearing here, assuming you have the means to get yourself to Canada
and can persuade a Canadian judge that your "reputation has been
financially damaged".

Given your inflammatory posts, disseminated on a world-wide basis as
may be seen from the incredible list of newsgroups being posted to
above, it is difficult to grasp why your claim to have lost reputation
should not be dismissed as ludicrous by your worldwide audience, yet
would persuade Irish readers to refuse to do business with you,
especially as your posts probably express their personal views. In
other words, if I have helped to increase your business, may I expect
a cheque from you?

So, are cancellations of your business contracts flooding in, along
with the usual flood of anonymous supportive emails? The law will
require you to to prove that you have suffered actual financial damage
from an alleged libel; it will not simply award you millions on the
basis that your feelings may have been hurt; something I very much
doubt, given the hatred spilling from your posts. Of course, if you
disseminate the alleged libel yourself in order to improve your
chances, then you may find yourself stepping into a criminal
conspiracy charge and that the Canadian courts will not hesitate to
deal with harshly.

In any case, it is extremely unlikely that any court in any rational
juridiction would agree to hear such a specious case involving your
world-wide publication of libels against the British State, its
leadership, etc. You will travel all this way only to discover that as
in the United Kingdom, time-wasting lawsuits are looked on with great
disfavour in Canadian legal circles.

You do follow what I'm driving at - only people who hold your views
are likely to applaud them. Anyone else will be unimpressed by your
support for a movement which has murdered thousands over the years.
In that respect, you have libelled yourself.

I think you have failed to understand the deep loathing and distrust
in which Irish Republicanism is held outside Ireland, even among those
of Irish origin, many of whom say it makes them ashamed to be Irish.

I don't doubt it. When Republicans publish posts explaining, for
example, that the Colombia Three were eco-tourists and not bombmakers
swapping their lethal knowledge for cocaine, they insult the
intelligence of the average person who can clearly see that he or she
is being fed a grotesque lie by people who have the impertinence to
assume that the reader is too stupid to work it out that he or she is
being lied to.

The part that sickened me was the revelation that the Colombia Three
demonstrated their first bomb by blowing up and killing everyone
inside a church filled with native women and kids.

I accept without reservation that you are not a member of the IRA, and
I have no doubt that you will deny having been employed by Sinn Fein
and will deny the published fact that Gerry Adams is a former member
of the IRA Army Council, all of whom were named in the Stormont
Parliament a year or so ago. However, you clearly support the view of
these organizations and as you must be aware, to coin an example, you
can be considered a Nazi without holding a Nazi Party membership card.

I think your chance of getting compensation from any Canadian court is
nil. If I were tried and convicted, I would of course appeal. as I
would plead from the start that the entire case is frivolous and does
not go towards upholding law and order. It sounds like a pretty thin
case at best, doesn't it?

As for my ISP, it will not be happy to contemplate losing a good,
longterm customer, given the ferocious competition for customers here.
Your complaint should be well-written, as it will be competing against
a selection of your more inflammatory posts.

If you are truly not the person who worked for Sinn Fein, then I will
be happy to withdraw my allegations, but I deal in good faith and I
expect the same courtesy.

Murchadh

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-28 09:48:55 UTC

Michilín wrote:

<self-deception snipped>

Post by MichilÃn
If you are truly not the person who
worked for Sinn Fein, then I will
be happy to withdraw my allegations,
but I deal in good faith and I
expect the same courtesy.
Murchadh

You did not post in good faith.

You quite obviously never checked the NNTP posting hosts for any of the
messages, because that would have told you that you were in error.

You never asked whether Nik O'Kiwi, PPCB of I were one and the same
person: you made an assumption in BAD FAITH and libelled me online.

Having been TOLD by me in no uncertain terms that you were incorrect,
instead of checking the facts and apologizing immediately, you blustered
the following:

"If you are truly not the person who
worked for Sinn Fein, then I will
be happy to withdraw my allegations"

I have already stated my position.
You have libelled me.

Its up to you to prove I am who you say I am or else
apologize and retract your previous assertions unreservedly.

As to your comments posted above; -

My views are mainstream nationalist - along with most of the Republic of
Ireland - I voted for a peaceful resolution of the northern conflict.

As to your attempted distraction; -

You libelled me twice in nine public newsgroups not for my views but for
my membership of an illegal organization.

Don't bother to try to distract readers with your comments about Canadian
courts. They are some of the best courts in the world and thankfully not
bound by the views of someone who posts in an unresearched manner as you
have proved you do.

All I have to show is that you stated as fact that I am someone I am not
who apparently was directly employed by an illegal organization.

That is, an illegal terrorist organization.
You stated that I was a terrorist.

How do you think that looks in the current political climate?

Do you think any court of law would ask me to show a financial loss?

You appear to be badly advised.

Unless you're advising yourself, which is more of the same.

Now please - for your own sake - apologize and retract, or I'll be forced
to take this further.

M.

Michilín

2005-09-28 15:08:11 UTC

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:48:55 +0100, Michael O'Neill

Post by Michael O'Neill
<self-deception snipped>

Post by MichilÃn
If you are truly not the person who
worked for Sinn Fein, then I will
be happy to withdraw my allegations,
but I deal in good faith and I
expect the same courtesy.
Murchadh

You did not post in good faith.
You quite obviously never checked the NNTP posting hosts for any of the
messages, because that would have told you that you were in error.
You never asked whether Nik O'Kiwi, PPCB of I were one and the same
person: you made an assumption in BAD FAITH and libelled me online.
Having been TOLD by me in no uncertain terms that you were incorrect,
instead of checking the facts and apologizing immediately, you blustered
"If you are truly not the person who
worked for Sinn Fein, then I will
be happy to withdraw my allegations"
I have already stated my position.
You have libelled me.
Its up to you to prove I am who you say I am or else
apologize and retract your previous assertions unreservedly.
As to your comments posted above; -
My views are mainstream nationalist - along with most of the Republic of
Ireland - I voted for a peaceful resolution of the northern conflict.
As to your attempted distraction; -
You libelled me twice in nine public newsgroups not for my views but for
my membership of an illegal organization.
Don't bother to try to distract readers with your comments about Canadian
courts. They are some of the best courts in the world and thankfully not
bound by the views of someone who posts in an unresearched manner as you
have proved you do.
All I have to show is that you stated as fact that I am someone I am not
who apparently was directly employed by an illegal organization.
That is, an illegal terrorist organization.
You stated that I was a terrorist.
How do you think that looks in the current political climate?
Do you think any court of law would ask me to show a financial loss?
You appear to be badly advised.
Unless you're advising yourself, which is more of the same.
Now please - for your own sake - apologize and retract, or I'll be forced
to take this further.
M.

Very well, I apologize unreservedly.

Murchadh

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-28 22:14:27 UTC

Post by MichilÃn
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:48:55 +0100, Michael O'Neill

Post by Michael O'Neill
<self-deception snipped>

Post by MichilÃn
If you are truly not the person who
worked for Sinn Fein, then I will
be happy to withdraw my allegations,
but I deal in good faith and I
expect the same courtesy.
Murchadh

You did not post in good faith.
You quite obviously never checked the NNTP posting hosts for any of the
messages, because that would have told you that you were in error.
You never asked whether Nik O'Kiwi, PPCB of I were one and the same
person: you made an assumption in BAD FAITH and libelled me online.
Having been TOLD by me in no uncertain terms that you were incorrect,
instead of checking the facts and apologizing immediately, you blustered
"If you are truly not the person who
worked for Sinn Fein, then I will
be happy to withdraw my allegations"
I have already stated my position.
You have libelled me.
Its up to you to prove I am who you say I am or else
apologize and retract your previous assertions unreservedly.
As to your comments posted above; -
My views are mainstream nationalist - along with most of the Republic of
Ireland - I voted for a peaceful resolution of the northern conflict.
As to your attempted distraction; -
You libelled me twice in nine public newsgroups not for my views but for
my membership of an illegal organization.
Don't bother to try to distract readers with your comments about Canadian
courts. They are some of the best courts in the world and thankfully not
bound by the views of someone who posts in an unresearched manner as you
have proved you do.
All I have to show is that you stated as fact that I am someone I am not
who apparently was directly employed by an illegal organization.
That is, an illegal terrorist organization.
You stated that I was a terrorist.
How do you think that looks in the current political climate?
Do you think any court of law would ask me to show a financial loss?
You appear to be badly advised.
Unless you're advising yourself, which is more of the same.
Now please - for your own sake - apologize and retract, or I'll be forced
to take this further.
M.

Very well, I apologize unreservedly.
Murchadh

Thank you very much for being reasonable about it.

If in doubt next time, just ask.

But before you ask, set your newsreader to see "full headers" and check
the NNTP posting host line. Copy and paste the numbers into a free trace
program like Sam Spade or Neotrace Express and watch what comes out.

Most posters don't forge their headers, they just like to take the piss.

If that is the case, then three really different posters will usually
have three different sets of headers, showing the countries they are
posting from.

HTH

M.

Beacon

2005-09-29 13:44:59 UTC

Post by MichilÃn
Very well, I apologize unreservedly.
Murchadh

Very magnamimous of you.
Rare in usenet circles these days
Award yourself 10 decency points.

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-29 19:34:30 UTC

Post by MichilÃn
Very well, I apologize unreservedly.
Murchadh

Very magnamimous of you.
Rare in usenet circles these days
Award yourself 10 decency points.

<bows>

I've done my fair share of abusing people, but guys
like Michilín are not my prey. He appears to hold
to his beliefs firmly, whatever they may be, and I
have to give him credit for that.

His heartfelt libel of me only showed once again,
that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
I didn't want to refer him to his ISP without
just cause, and he was reasonable in the end.

He got what he deserved in other words.
Forebearance and some useful information.
Nopefully he will run with it, stay informed
and not make the same mistake again.

M.

Beacon

2005-09-30 11:12:21 UTC

Post by Michael O'Neill
His heartfelt libel of me only showed once again,
that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Isnt that a misquote?

I suppose a little "learning" is a dangerous thing though hartfelt as
expressed at the time has been altered over the years so that people accept
an alternative. hten again you didn't say Pope said it did you?

http://eserver.org/poetry/essay-on-criticism.html

Michael O'Neill

2005-10-03 18:18:05 UTC

Post by Michael O'Neill
His heartfelt libel of me only showed once again,
that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Isnt that a misquote?

Nope, it isn't.

M.

Josiah Jenkins

2005-10-03 19:13:16 UTC

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:18:05 +0100, I read these words from Michael

Post by Michael O'Neill
His heartfelt libel of me only showed once again,
that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Isnt that a misquote?

Nope, it isn't.

'fraid so.

A little Learning is a dang'rous Thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:
There shallow Draughts intoxicate the Brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Fir'd at first Sight with what the Muse imparts,
In fearless Youth we tempt the Heights of Arts,
While from the bounded Level of our Mind,
Short Views we take, nor see the lengths behind,
But more advanc'd, behold with strange Surprize
New, distant Scenes of endless Science rise!
So pleas'd at first, the towring Alps we try,
Mount o'er the Vales, and seem to tread the Sky;
Th' Eternal Snows appear already past,
And the first Clouds and Mountains seem the last:
But those attain'd, we tremble to survey
The growing Labours of the lengthen'd Way,
Th' increasing Prospect tires our wandering Eyes,
Hills peep o'er Hills, and Alps on Alps arise!

An Essay on Criticism
Alexander Pope. (16881744)

-- JJJ

Michael O'Neill

2005-10-04 08:52:09 UTC

Post by Josiah Jenkins
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:18:05 +0100, I read these words from Michael

Post by Michael O'Neill
His heartfelt libel of me only showed once again,
that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Isnt that a misquote?

Nope, it isn't.

'fraid so.
A little Learning is a dang'rous Thing;
There shallow Draughts intoxicate the Brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Fir'd at first Sight with what the Muse imparts,
In fearless Youth we tempt the Heights of Arts,
While from the bounded Level of our Mind,
Short Views we take, nor see the lengths behind,
But more advanc'd, behold with strange Surprize
New, distant Scenes of endless Science rise!
So pleas'd at first, the towring Alps we try,
Mount o'er the Vales, and seem to tread the Sky;
Th' Eternal Snows appear already past,
But those attain'd, we tremble to survey
The growing Labours of the lengthen'd Way,
Th' increasing Prospect tires our wandering Eyes,
Hills peep o'er Hills, and Alps on Alps arise!
An Essay on Criticism
Alexander Pope. (16881744)
-- JJJ

I wasn't referring to the bauld Al Pope in this case, but to common
parlance which goes: "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

I studied some Pope in school, but it was a limited curriculum and I
don't recall this work.

Perhaps the common parlance arose from Pope's work and then became
changed. In his day the word "learning" was used not as a verb to
describe the process of obtaining knowledge, as in today's usage, but as
a noun meaning effectively "the knowledge in one's head".

The phrase "man of learning" would equate to "man of knowledge" in terms
of the sense of it, so the meaning has not been lost.

At any rate, within the context of it being a "quotation", I stand
corrected.

<bows>

However I note the following google result:

Results 1 - 10 of about 104,000 for "a little learning". (0.22 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 29,900 for "a little learning is a dangerous
thing" [definition]. (0.19 seconds)

In most of the returned results, the phrase stands alone, while in

Results 1 - 10 of about 585,000 for "a little knowledge". (0.18 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 76,500 for "a little knowledge is a dangerous
thing" [definition]. (0.18 seconds)

It seems the term I favoured "a little knowledge" is used more often
[585,000 to 104,000], and the whole phrase with "is a dangerous thing" is
used more often [76,500 to 29,900].

Oddly enough, the proportion of people using the phrase "is a dangerous
thing" with the term "learning" is higher than for those using the phrase
I favoured [nearly 29% compared to just over 13%].

Perhaps the more erudite use it more sparingly, and more dare I say it
"knowledgeably"!

LOL!

M.

Josiah Jenkins

2005-10-04 11:01:44 UTC

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:52:09 +0100, I read these words from Michael
<HUGE snip and headers trimmed to .soc ngs>

Post by Josiah Jenkins

Post by Michael O'Neill
that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Isn't that a misquote?

Nope, it isn't.

'fraid so.
A little Learning is a dang'rous Thing;
An Essay on Criticism
Alexander Pope. (16881744)

I wasn't referring to the bauld Al Pope in this case, but to common
parlance which goes: "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Snipped attempted (but inventive) "wriggle".
Just as the labourer is worthy of his hire,
so is the author due his recognition.

Post by Michael O'Neill
At any rate, within the context of it being a "quotation",
I stand corrected.
<bows>

My pleasure, sir.

Post by Michael O'Neill
Results - 104,000 for "a little learning".
Results - 29,900 for "a little learning is a dangerous thing"
Results - 585,000 for "a little knowledge".
Results - 76,500 for "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
It seems the term I favoured "a little knowledge" is used more often
[585,000 to 104,000], and the whole phrase with "is a dangerous thing" is
used more often [76,500 to 29,900].

Which only shows that, although Google may indeed be your friend,
your friends *can* let you down.

Post by Michael O'Neill
Oddly enough, the proportion of people using the phrase "is a dangerous
thing" with the term "learning" is higher than for those using the phrase
I favoured [nearly 29% compared to just over 13%].
Perhaps the more erudite use it more sparingly, and more dare I say it
"knowledgeably"!
LOL!

As one celt to another, I thank you for your courtesy.
In closing, may I offer you :-

An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi, 1869 - 1948

-- JJJ

Ex_OWM

2005-10-06 11:02:25 UTC

Post by Josiah Jenkins
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi, 1869 - 1948

That quote should be included in all ng FAQ's

:)

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-27 10:29:24 UTC

Post by westprog
...

<snip>

Yup.

I still yearn to see a United Ireland, but one that will be achieved
through democratic and inclusive means, not through a perpetuation of the
kind of dominant apartheid the loyalists forced on catholics in the
twentieth century [seems odd to say that].

I don't know why the loyalists still suspect that is our agenda. They are
a relative minority, with little in common with other protestant ethnic
groups in either the Republic, Scotland, England or Wales, but that
doesn't mean they will be "swallowed up" by the Republic.

Protestants "down south" are usually held in some regard. They are
usually well-educated, relatively well-off and all the protestants I have
known are "good people". They may have kept their heads down during the
domination years of the Catholic Church, but that period in our history
is past and Ireland is becoming more multicultural every day.

Painting us as Taigs and Papists isn't true. Most catholics I know are
"lapsed" / fair-weather and don't hammer their teenagers if they become
pregnant. The abortions that happen seem to occur for social reasons or
career motivations, but certainly not out of shame in society.

It would be refreshing to see loyalists moving on into the twenty-first
century instead of thinking of us as if we were in the twentieth.

M.

JStewart

2005-09-28 08:11:09 UTC

Michael O'Neill wrote:

<snip>

Michael, you don't need to defend yourself. Even after explaining it to
him, he still thinks you're Nik Warrenson. He even thinks that going to
a new intenet Cafe is a way of hiding yourself, even though the odds
are that an internet cafe in Ireland and one in New Zealand will likely
have completely separate ranges of IP addresses, and so an Irish poster
could never claim to be posting from NZ or vice versa. I don't know
what to say to handle this, you are a lawyer, but, for the record, I'm
with you. He's accusing you of something you never did.

BTW : soc.culture.iraq, soc.culture.afghanistan, soc.culture.usa,
alt.politics.org.fbi, alt.politics.org.cia,
talk.politics.european-union have been snipped.

Michael O'Neill

2005-09-28 09:58:03 UTC

Post by Michael O'Neill
<snip>
Michael, you don't need to defend yourself.
Even after explaining it to
him, he still thinks you're Nik Warrenson.
He even thinks that going to
a new intenet Cafe is a way of hiding yourself,
even though the odds
are that an internet cafe in Ireland
and one in New Zealand will likely
have completely separate ranges of
IP addresses, and so an Irish poster
could never claim to be posting from
NZ or vice versa. I don't know
what to say to handle this, you are a lawyer,
but, for the record, I'm
with you.
He's accusing you of something you never did.
BTW : soc.culture.iraq, soc.culture.afghanistan, soc.culture.usa,
alt.politics.org.fbi, alt.politics.org.cia,
talk.politics.european-union have been snipped.

Many thanks for your support "J" - John is it?

You can forge anything, given the right
approach to a server, but as far as I
know none of the three "accused"
engaged in forging. I say that
without having done a trawl.

But yes, if you're not forging and
you're using different ISPs even in
the same country, then it should show
up on a Whois search using a proggie
like Neotrace or Sam Spade to search
out the NNTP host.

As for me, no, I'm not a lawyer, neither
a solicitor or Barrister, but I've attended
at the High Court in Dublin as an expert
witness more than a few times and I have
advised both solicitors or Barristers
over the years on matters in
which I am competent.

Several have said I should join the legal profession,
but Court cases are tough to sit through and
very demanding on the participants. I don't
know that I could face doing it for a living.

I will keep the section of the thread where he posts
copied to all the relevant NGs he has posted his
libel in, but where others wish to comment
more privately or in accordance with their ISPs
terms of service I am happy to comply.

Later.

M.

JStewart

2005-09-28 10:18:50 UTC

Post by Michael O'Neill
Many thanks for your support "J" - John is it?

My name's Jonathan, anyone knows me calls me Jo(h)n.

Post by Michael O'Neill
You can forge anything, given the right approach to a server,
but as far as I know none of the three "accused" engaged in forging.
I say that without having done a trawl.

It's easy to forge headers, and indeed location, but it's much harder
to claim to post from an ISP you don't. Like an irish versus NZ one.
That's not even the issue here, though. No-one has forged you. Someone
has stupidly confused you with someone entirely else and cannot see it.
They ask you to correct them and it's almost funny if it wasn't so
serious. He simply doesn't seem to be able to distinguish you and Nik.
The two of you are completely different. There's nothing in common with
your posting styles.

Post Post Colonial Boy

2005-09-29 09:19:43 UTC

On 28 Sep 2005 03:18:50 -0700, "JStewart"

Post by JStewart

Post by Michael O'Neill
Many thanks for your support "J" - John is it?

My name's Jonathan, anyone knows me calls me Jo(h)n.

Post by Michael O'Neill
You can forge anything, given the right approach to a server,
but as far as I know none of the three "accused" engaged in forging.
I say that without having done a trawl.

Serious ya reckon? I'll beg to differ...

PPCB

JStewart

2005-09-29 09:35:21 UTC

Post by Post Post Colonial Boy
Serious ya reckon? I'll beg to differ...

What, you don't think it was?

Post Post Colonial Boy

2005-09-30 21:57:56 UTC

On 29 Sep 2005 02:35:21 -0700, "JStewart"

Post by JStewart

Post by Post Post Colonial Boy
Serious ya reckon? I'll beg to differ...

What, you don't think it was?

Not really.

PPCB

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2005-09-25 16:55:45 UTC