Weiss Recordings

[Stefan Nowak]

I wonder if I am the only one who is not so utterly impressed with the
Weiss Recordings (Robert Barto) on Naxos? I´ve googled the groups and
everyone seems to rave about them... For my taste they are played to
introverted and "muddled". You know what I mean? In my understanding is
Weiss´s music more "masculine" than the former french school of lute
music.

Some people recommended also the Lutz Kirchhof interpretations. I went
to amazon and listened to some examples and I´m quite impressed. He has
an very "expressionist" and down to earth style, he play the Suites more
*Bach-like* with good phrasing and strong dynamics.

Any opinions? I have to admit that I only have the First Barto-Weiss Cd,
are the others different?

Stefan

PS: Here is an amazon link to listen to Kirchhof playing Weiss:

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000262CT/qid=1088010970/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_10_4/028-2677740-7348500

[Julian Tuwim]

Post by Stefan Nowak
I wonder if I am the only one who is not so utterly impressed with the
Weiss Recordings (Robert Barto) on Naxos? I´ve googled the groups and
everyone seems to rave about them... For my taste they are played to
introverted and "muddled". You know what I mean? In my understanding is
Weiss´s music more "masculine" than the former french school of lute
music.
Some people recommended also the Lutz Kirchhof interpretations. I went
to amazon and listened to some examples and I´m quite impressed. He has
an very "expressionist" and down to earth style, he play the Suites more
*Bach-like* with good phrasing and strong dynamics.
Any opinions? I have to admit that I only have the First Barto-Weiss Cd,
are the others different?
Stefan

The Vol.1 is a bit problematic acoustically, you should get 4,5 and 6 before
forming an opinion.
RT
________________
http://polyhymnion.org

[Stefan Nowak]

Post by Julian Tuwim

Weiss Recordings - Barto / Naxos

The Vol.1 is a bit problematic acoustically, you should get 4,5 and 6
before forming an opinion.

Hey, thanks Julian, good to hear, I will give it a try.

Unfortunately I am not able to listen to the samples on the Naxos
homepage. I know that you can´t listen to the whole tracks anymore, but
now I can´t listen to anything, not even a snippet :-( After logging in
and klicking on the sound sample nothing happens except the login mask
appears again.

Anyway, thanks for your tipp!

Stefan

[Julian Tuwim]

There is a complete Sonata by JBHagen in MP3 on Barto's site:
http://polyhymnion.org/barto
JT

Post by Stefan Nowak

Post by Julian Tuwim

Weiss Recordings - Barto / Naxos

The Vol.1 is a bit problematic acoustically, you should get 4,5 and 6
before forming an opinion.

Hey, thanks Julian, good to hear, I will give it a try.
Unfortunately I am not able to listen to the samples on the Naxos
homepage. I know that you can´t listen to the whole tracks anymore, but
now I can´t listen to anything, not even a snippet :-( After logging in
and klicking on the sound sample nothing happens except the login mask
appears again.
Anyway, thanks for your tipp!
Stefan

[John Wasak]

Post by Stefan Nowak
I wonder if I am the only one who is not so utterly impressed with the
Weiss Recordings (Robert Barto) on Naxos? IŽve googled the groups and
everyone seems to rave about them... For my taste they are played to
introverted and "muddled". You know what I mean? In my understanding is
WeissŽs music more "masculine" than the former french school of lute
music.
Some people recommended also the Lutz Kirchhof interpretations. I went
to amazon and listened to some examples and IŽm quite impressed. He has
an very "expressionist" and down to earth style, he play the Suites more
*Bach-like* with good phrasing and strong dynamics.
Any opinions?

Well, I like 'em. (Barto's, that is) Then again, I also like Nigel North's
playing of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas, Hopkinson Smith's playing of the
Bach Lute Works and Paul O'Dette's playing of Dowland. So exactly what does
all that mean?.....

No idea.


jw

Post by Stefan Nowak
I have to admit that I only have the First Barto-Weiss Cd,
are the others different?
Stefan

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000262CT/qid=1088010970/sr=1-4/ref=s
r_1_10_4/028-2677740-7348500

[Stefan Nowak]

Post by John Wasak

Barto Weiss Recordings

Well, I like 'em. (Barto's, that is) Then again, I also like Nigel
North's playing of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas, Hopkinson Smith's
playing of the Bach Lute Works and Paul O'Dette's playing of Dowland.
So exactly what does all that mean?.....

That means there is a bunch of good lute music around :-)

Seriously, my point was that I think the approach to Weiss' music should
be different to other earlier lute music, because (as the liner notes in
the CD say) Weiss seemed to be heavily influenced by the "Italian Opera
Style", the melody lines seem to sing with belcanto.
Thus a restrained approach to his music doesn´t seem to be appropriate.
You have to play his music a little bit (melo)dramatically and
"belcanto" _IMHO_.

And my second point was that maybe someone could point out a new kind of
perception of Bartos recordings to me, one that I haven´t considered
yet.

But I will give the later one´s in the series a listen, that was a good
hint.

Post by John Wasak
No idea.

Hey, I´m always eager for good reasoned recommondations :-) By the way I
like Hopkinson Smith´ Kapsberger stuff a lot, but I haven´t got any time
now to explain, because I have to get to work, it´s a quarter past 8
a.m. now in Austria *yawn* :-)

Stefan

[no spam]

Speaking of Girolamo Kapsberger, there's quite a bit around, including a nice CD by Paul O'Dette,
"Il Tedesco della Tiorba: Pieces for Lute" (Harmonia Mundi France 907020).

Even more excting has been the discovery just last year of Kapsberger's long lost _Libro Terzo
d'Intavolatura di Chitarrone_ (Rome 1626). It was purchased by the Yale University Library from a
private individual, and they didn't realize that it is the only copy in existence. It has already
been recorded by Diego Cantalupi (Cremona MVC 002009). The CD also includes a FACSIMILE of the
entire tablature!! So you get the sounds and the score all packed onto one CD.

beau gus.

Post by Stefan Nowak

Post by John Wasak

Barto Weiss Recordings

Well, I like 'em. (Barto's, that is) Then again, I also like Nigel
North's playing of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas, Hopkinson Smith's
playing of the Bach Lute Works and Paul O'Dette's playing of Dowland.
So exactly what does all that mean?.....

That means there is a bunch of good lute music around :-)
Seriously, my point was that I think the approach to Weiss' music should
be different to other earlier lute music, because (as the liner notes in
the CD say) Weiss seemed to be heavily influenced by the "Italian Opera
Style", the melody lines seem to sing with belcanto.
Thus a restrained approach to his music doesnŽt seem to be appropriate.
You have to play his music a little bit (melo)dramatically and
"belcanto" _IMHO_.
And my second point was that maybe someone could point out a new kind of
perception of Bartos recordings to me, one that I havenŽt considered
yet.
But I will give the later oneŽs in the series a listen, that was a good
hint.

Post by John Wasak
No idea.

Hey, IŽm always eager for good reasoned recommondations :-) By the way I
like Hopkinson SmithŽ Kapsberger stuff a lot, but I havenŽt got any time
now to explain, because I have to get to work, itŽs a quarter past 8
a.m. now in Austria *yawn* :-)
Stefan

[Richard Yates]

Post by no spam
Even more excting has been the discovery just last year of Kapsberger's

long lost _Libro Terzo

Post by no spam
d'Intavolatura di Chitarrone_ (Rome 1626). It was purchased by the Yale

University Library from a

Post by no spam
private individual, and they didn't realize that it is the only copy in

existence. It has already

Post by no spam
been recorded by Diego Cantalupi (Cremona MVC 002009). The CD also

includes a FACSIMILE of the

Post by no spam
entire tablature!! So you get the sounds and the score all packed onto one CD.

Thanks for the tip, nospam. I did some guitar transcriptions of Kapsberger a
few years ago for Soundboard (Fall, 2000). It is a headache to convert the
reentrant tuning of the chitaronne to standard notation but well worth it.
Kapsberger is a sadly neglected master.

Richard Yates

[no spam]

Dear Richard,

I think Kapsberger's popularity is on the rise. I'm not a particularly avid CD collector, but I
must have 5 or 6 CDs entirely or partially devoted to Kapsberger. He was quite an innovator like
his contemporaries Monteverdi and Frescobaldi. He composed at least two operas in the monodic
style One is on the St. Ignatius story and was broadcast a few years ago on BBC (I know the person
who copied the parts in pen and ink for a per note fee), and was given a semi-professional staged
production at Boston College to celebrate the 500th anniversary of St, Ignatius (He founded the
Jesuits, the order that runs BC). They had packed houses for some four or five performances. I
kick myself for only going once.

The driving force behind the production was Father Frank Kennedy, who has made many startling
discoveries looking through old church libraries and parish house attics in South America. He
found, for example, otherwise unknown keyboard music by Padre Antonio Soler, and I'm waiting for him
to bring back manuscripts of baroque guitar and vihuela music. There's gotta be some down there.
Probably lots of it.

Post by no spam

Post by no spam
Even more excting has been the discovery just last year of Kapsberger's

long lost _Libro Terzo

Post by no spam
d'Intavolatura di Chitarrone_ (Rome 1626). It was purchased by the Yale

University Library from a

Post by no spam
private individual, and they didn't realize that it is the only copy in

existence. It has already

Post by no spam
been recorded by Diego Cantalupi (Cremona MVC 002009). The CD also

includes a FACSIMILE of the

Post by no spam
entire tablature!! So you get the sounds and the score all packed onto one

CD.
Thanks for the tip, nospam. I did some guitar transcriptions of Kapsberger a
few years ago for Soundboard (Fall, 2000). It is a headache to convert the
reentrant tuning of the chitaronne to standard notation but well worth it.
Kapsberger is a sadly neglected master.
Richard Yates

[Tom Poore]

Does anyone have guitarist William Matthews' 1973 Vox Turnabout LP? He
recorded Weiss, Logy, and Baron. Not a lute recording, of course, but
one of the best, most lively recordings of baroque lute music I've
heard. Also not the cleanest playing, but clean enough to put across
the music. It's also a virtual clinic on how to do ornamentation with
spirit and taste.

Tom Poore
Cleveland Heights, OH
USA

[no spam]

There is now a two CD set "Galant Guitar" lute music played by Per Kjetil Farstad on 8-string
guitar. His playing is superb, quite clean and with all the right ornaments, which he studied in
his doctoral disssertation and about which he has written in some journa; articles. He teaches at a
conservatory in Norway.

CD # LYNOR 9915. It has suites and partitas by Baron, Falckenhaggen, Hagen and Weiss. One of my
favorite CDs of this repertory.

And Tom, stick your head out your upstairrs bedroom window on Monday evening and you'll hear Baroque
lute music filtering down from CWRU. Robert BARTO and Paul BEIER are playing that eveing starting
at 7 p.m. (more info at www.lutesocietyofamerica.org)

Post by Tom Poore
Does anyone have guitarist William Matthews' 1973 Vox Turnabout LP? He
recorded Weiss, Logy, and Baron. Not a lute recording, of course, but
one of the best, most lively recordings of baroque lute music I've
heard. Also not the cleanest playing, but clean enough to put across
the music. It's also a virtual clinic on how to do ornamentation with
spirit and taste.
Tom Poore
Cleveland Heights, OH
USA

[Alpha_Omega]

Sounds good...can you suggest a source for purchasing it, particularly in
the US? Thanks.

Post by no spam
There is now a two CD set "Galant Guitar" lute music played by Per Kjetil Farstad on 8-string
guitar. His playing is superb, quite clean and with all the right

ornaments, which he studied in

Post by no spam
his doctoral disssertation and about which he has written in some journa;

articles. He teaches at a

Post by no spam
conservatory in Norway.
CD # LYNOR 9915. It has suites and partitas by Baron, Falckenhaggen,

Hagen and Weiss. One of my

Post by no spam
favorite CDs of this repertory.

[no spam]

You can always try 1-800 ASK-TOWER. I see no web site on this CD from 1999. But Lynor may have
since established one. Or you might wish to write directly to Per (Per Kjetil Farstad). His e-mail
address is

***@online.no

His dissertation from Goeteborg University is published, _German Galant Lute Music in the 18th
Century_ (2000). It is an excellent, in-depth study of the repertory, and contains many complete
pieces arranged for the 8-string guitar, including that most virtuoso of lute pieces the Locatelli
variations by Hagen, which Per also recoded on that CD. Try that one and you'll understand why it's
necessary to practice your scales every day.<g>

Another place to try would be Kenneth Sparr's web page "Tabulatura." He may be able to take payment
with a credit card. He is a guitarist/lutenist in Sweden who sells music and accessories.

Post by Alpha_Omega
Sounds good...can you suggest a source for purchasing it, particularly in
the US? Thanks.

Post by no spam
There is now a two CD set "Galant Guitar" lute music played by Per Kjetil

Farstad on 8-string

Post by no spam
guitar. His playing is superb, quite clean and with all the right

ornaments, which he studied in

Post by no spam
his doctoral disssertation and about which he has written in some journa;

articles. He teaches at a

Post by no spam
conservatory in Norway.
CD # LYNOR 9915. It has suites and partitas by Baron, Falckenhaggen,

Hagen and Weiss. One of my

Post by no spam
favorite CDs of this repertory.

[Alpha_Omega]

Tower doesn't have it (big shock there!), so I'll try Per. Thanks.

Post by no spam
You can always try 1-800 ASK-TOWER. I see no web site on this CD from

1999. But Lynor may have

Post by no spam
since established one. Or you might wish to write directly to Per (Per

Kjetil Farstad). His e-mail

Post by no spam
address is
His dissertation from Goeteborg University is published, _German Galant

Lute Music in the 18th

Post by no spam
Century_ (2000). It is an excellent, in-depth study of the repertory, and

contains many complete

Post by no spam
pieces arranged for the 8-string guitar, including that most virtuoso of

lute pieces the Locatelli

Post by no spam
variations by Hagen, which Per also recoded on that CD. Try that one and

you'll understand why it's

Post by no spam
necessary to practice your scales every day.<g>
Another place to try would be Kenneth Sparr's web page "Tabulatura." He

may be able to take payment

Post by no spam
with a credit card. He is a guitarist/lutenist in Sweden who sells music and accessories.

Post by Alpha_Omega
Sounds good...can you suggest a source for purchasing it, particularly in
the US? Thanks.

Post by no spam
There is now a two CD set "Galant Guitar" lute music played by Per Kjetil

Farstad on 8-string

Post by no spam
guitar. His playing is superb, quite clean and with all the right

ornaments, which he studied in

Post by no spam
his doctoral disssertation and about which he has written in some journa;

articles. He teaches at a

Post by no spam
conservatory in Norway.
CD # LYNOR 9915. It has suites and partitas by Baron, Falckenhaggen,

Hagen and Weiss. One of my

Post by no spam
favorite CDs of this repertory.

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS]

Post by Tom Poore
Does anyone have guitarist William Matthews' 1973 Vox Turnabout LP? He
recorded Weiss, Logy, and Baron. Not a lute recording, of course, but
one of the best, most lively recordings of baroque lute music I've
heard. Also not the cleanest playing, but clean enough to put across
the music. It's also a virtual clinic on how to do ornamentation with
spirit and taste.
Tom Poore
Cleveland Heights, OH
USA

Wish I did. He was the first guitarist/lutenist I ever saw at the old
Brooklyn Classical Guitar Society, probably about 1980. I remember it
was so cold he had problems playing--I really felt bad for him.
I haven't heard of him since.

Steve

[Julian Tuwim]

Post by Tom Poore
Does anyone have guitarist William Matthews' 1973 Vox Turnabout LP? He
recorded Weiss, Logy, and Baron. Not a lute recording, of course, but
one of the best, most lively recordings of baroque lute music I've
heard. Also not the cleanest playing, but clean enough to put across
the music. It's also a virtual clinic on how to do ornamentation with
spirit and taste.

Having heard the real thing makes WM unbearable.
JT

[Tom Poore]

Post by Tom Poore
Does anyone have guitarist William Matthews' 1973
Vox Turnabout LP? He recorded Weiss, Logy, and Baron.
Not a lute recording, of course, but one of the best,
most lively recordings of baroque lute music I've
heard. Also not the cleanest playing, but clean enough
to put across the music. It's also a virtual clinic on
how to do ornamentation with spirit and taste.
Having heard the real thing makes WM unbearable.

Unless you're old enough to have heard the composers themselves
playing their own music, you haven't heard "the real thing." You've
merely heard someone's opinion of how the music should go. This
opinion can be more or less informed, of course, but it's opinion
nonetheless.

Further, your "real thing" comment implies that there's an
archetypical performance of each piece that, once found, is
sacrosanct. Leaving aside the question of whether it's possible to
reconstruct an archetype of music written centuries ago, do we really
want to do this? Few reasonable people accept the notion of a
definitive performance in music of the 19th or 20th century, so why
would we do so with early music?

Tom Poore
Cleveland Heights, OH
USA

[Alpha_Omega]

Whatever you do, avoid the Weiss Sonatas recorded by guitarist Kurt
Schneeweis on the Koch Schwann label! He has monstrously inflated the pieces
with improvisations.

[Stefan Nowak]

I have to second this, Schneeweiss sounds simply terrible IMHO, he never
plays the original music, he always seems to play his own
"improvements".... In addition some of his recordings seem to be
overdubbed IIRC.

Stefan

Post by Alpha_Omega
Whatever you do, avoid the Weiss Sonatas recorded by guitarist Kurt
Schneeweis on the Koch Schwann label! He has monstrously inflated the
pieces with improvisations.

[Julian Tuwim]

I second that.
JT

Post by Alpha_Omega
Whatever you do, avoid the Weiss Sonatas recorded by guitarist Kurt
Schneeweis on the Koch Schwann label! He has monstrously inflated the pieces
with improvisations.

________________
http://polyhymnion.org

[Stefan Nowak]

Thanks for the tip, no spam!

I love the sound of the Chitarrone, I have a Jakob Lindberg Cd with some
pieces for Chitarrone by Kapsberger, great stuff.

Concerning neglected masters, anyone knows a good recording of Valentin
Bakfark´s lute music? :-))
I have the Bakfark *The Cracow Lute-Book* (Editio Musica Budapest),
transcribed for guitar by Daniel Benkö. Years ago I tried some of the
pieces but most are tremendously difficult, because some are
transcriptions from polyphonic vocal music (motets eg) for 4 voices...

Stefan

Post by no spam
Speaking of Girolamo Kapsberger, there's quite a bit around,
including a nice CD by Paul O'Dette, "Il Tedesco della Tiorba: Pieces
for Lute" (Harmonia Mundi France 907020).
Even more excting has been the discovery just last year of
Kapsberger's long lost _Libro Terzo d'Intavolatura di Chitarrone_
(Rome 1626). It was purchased by the Yale University Library from a
private individual, and they didn't realize that it is the only copy
in existence. It has already been recorded by Diego Cantalupi
(Cremona MVC 002009). The CD also includes a FACSIMILE of the entire
tablature!! So you get the sounds and the score all packed onto one
CD.
beau gus

[no spam]

You ask the easiest questions. Daniel Benkö also recorded all of the works by Bakfark on LP But his
chops just weren't up to the task, imho, because, as you've discovered, the music is incredibly
difficult, and would make a player like O'Dette blanch. But the U.S.-born Jacob Heringman is quite
up to the task. He has a CD of music by Bakfark and a contemporary of his Mattheus Waissel (they
probably knew one another due to contacts in Koenigsberg), Both were active mainly in Poland and
Eastern Europe. The title of the CD "Black Cow" (DGM9906----Discipline Global Mobile) takes its
name from a arrangement by Bakfark of a Polish song "Czarna krown," but had the CD been titled
"Bakfark" that would have been equally silly, because Bakfark's funny sounding name means billy
goat's tail in Hungarian.

Jacob's CDs are available through Magnatune (www.magnatune.com).

By the way, if you were visiting Tom Poore in Cleveland Heights and were to listen out his bedroom
window on Thursday evening you'd hear the sounds from Jacob Heringman's lute filtering down from
Case Western Resever Univerity starting at 7 p.m. He's at the Cleveland Lute Festival, too.
--------------
By the way, I am especially fond of the sound of Diego Cantalupi's chitarrone. It is modeled on a
chitarrone from 1647 by Matteo Sellas, and is just like the instrument recomnmended as being ideal
in one of Kapsberger's own books.

Post by Stefan Nowak
Thanks for the tip, no spam!
I love the sound of the Chitarrone, I have a Jakob Lindberg Cd with some
pieces for Chitarrone by Kapsberger, great stuff.
Concerning neglected masters, anyone knows a good recording of Valentin
BakfarkŽs lute music? :-))
I have the Bakfark *The Cracow Lute-Book* (Editio Musica Budapest),
transcribed for guitar by Daniel Benkö. Years ago I tried some of the
pieces but most are tremendously difficult, because some are
transcriptions from polyphonic vocal music (motets eg) for 4 voices...
Stefan

Post by no spam
Speaking of Girolamo Kapsberger, there's quite a bit around,
including a nice CD by Paul O'Dette, "Il Tedesco della Tiorba: Pieces
for Lute" (Harmonia Mundi France 907020).
Even more excting has been the discovery just last year of
Kapsberger's long lost _Libro Terzo d'Intavolatura di Chitarrone_
(Rome 1626). It was purchased by the Yale University Library from a
private individual, and they didn't realize that it is the only copy
in existence. It has already been recorded by Diego Cantalupi
(Cremona MVC 002009). The CD also includes a FACSIMILE of the entire
tablature!! So you get the sounds and the score all packed onto one
CD.
beau gus

[Stefan Nowak]

Post by no spam
You ask the easiest questions. Daniel Benkö also recorded all of the
works by Bakfark on LP But his chops just weren't up to the task,
imho,

I thougt so. I have a CD by Benkö, called Lute Music of the
Rennaissance, he plays 3 pieces by Bafark on it. One being the Fantasie
I. And his interpreation of this Fantasie sounds like very hard work :-)
Not very elegant and not very pleasing to hear.
Allthough I quite like the other pieces on this CD, Waissel, Cutting,
Dowland and Newsidler among them. The other strange thing with this Cd
is his usage of an instrument called Orpahrion for some of the pieces,
it seems to be sort of a Lute with stell strings (?) and sounds a little
bit.... weired :-)

Post by no spam
because, as you've discovered, the music is incredibly
difficult, and would make a player like O'Dette blanch.

What´s your opinion of O´Dette? I don´t have a CD by him.

One of the lutenists I also like is Anthony Bailes, I have a CD with
French Lute music (Mesangeau, Gaultier, Mouton), very beautiful and
charming music. It took me quite a while to get used to the french style
of lute music, but now I like it a lot. And Bailes really delivers
here...

And thanks for the Heringman tip, it´s on my wishlist now.

Post by no spam
By the way, if you were visiting Tom Poore in Cleveland Heights and
were to listen out his bedroom window on Thursday evening you'd hear
the sounds from Jacob Heringman's lute filtering down from Case
Western Resever Univerity starting at 7 p.m. He's at the Cleveland
Lute Festival, too. --------------

Yo, I would love to, the only poblem is that I live in Austria :-)

Stefan

[Stefan Nowak]

Post by Stefan Nowak
it seems to be sort of a Lute with stell strings (?) and sounds a
little bit.... weired :-)

read steel string....

[no spam]

Post by Stefan Nowak

Post by no spam
You ask the easiest questions. Daniel Benkö also recorded all of the
works by Bakfark on LP But his chops just weren't up to the task,
imho,

I thougt so. I have a CD by Benkö, called Lute Music of the
Rennaissance, he plays 3 pieces by Bafark on it. One being the Fantasie
I. And his interpreation of this Fantasie sounds like very hard work :-)
Not very elegant and not very pleasing to hear.
Allthough I quite like the other pieces on this CD, Waissel, Cutting,
Dowland and Newsidler among them. The other strange thing with this Cd
is his usage of an instrument called Orpahrion for some of the pieces,
it seems to be sort of a Lute with stell strings (?) and sounds a little
bit.... weired :-)

I tend to associate the orpharion with English music.

I wonder where Benkö got one. I've met Daniel. He is a very nice, gent;le person, unlike that
picture on some of his LPs where he scowls and looks like a gangster. I just wish that he could
play a little better. But that was a huge undertaking to play everything Bakfark ever wrote.

Post by Stefan Nowak

Post by no spam
because, as you've discovered, the music is incredibly
difficult, and would make a player like O'Dette blanch.

WhatŽs your opinion of OŽDette? I donŽt have a CD by him.

I think O'Dette is surely THE virtuoso player of our time. He has so many CDs out. But for obvious
reasons, I like the ones that feature music by Francesco da Milano.<g> And Marco dall'Aquila. He
has a new one out that includes music of John Johnson, and some of that stuff really requires a
virtuoso technique.

Post by Stefan Nowak
One of the lutenists I also like is Anthony Bailes, I have a CD with
French Lute music (Mesangeau, Gaultier, Mouton), very beautiful and
charming music. It took me quite a while to get used to the french style
of lute music, but now I like it a lot. And Bailes really delivers
here...

Bailes is particularly good with the French repertory, I think.

He was one of the first regularly to use gut strings, and many didn't like his sound at first. They
were so accusotomed to Bream. By the way, I have NEVER heard unkind words said about Bream in the
lute community. Just admiration. He led a master class for the Lute Society (U.K.) just a few
months ago. And about 5 years ago he and his lute-guitar were featured on the cover of the Lute
Society of America Quarterly with a long interview inside by lute scholar Victor Coehlo. Greg and
Paul are totally wrong when they claim that lutenists consider Bream to be a hack. It simply is not
so. Never was. This is just more character assasination by proxy. It is particularly sad when the
mud slinging comes from a music journalists like Paul.

Post by Stefan Nowak
And thanks for the Heringman tip, itŽs on my wishlist now.

He's become the latest darling of the lute crowd. And deservedly so.

You should also watch for CDs by Chris Wilson. He is also a very sensitive player. And when he
plays polyphony you can hear and follow every line.

Another lutenist who has produced some excellent CDs is Paul Beier, an American lutenist living in
Milan. He has a Francesco CD. But above all I enjoy some of his baroque lute performances. One is
Stradivarius STR 33448 works by Weiss and Falkenhagen. The Falkenhagen work is his prelude through
all of the major and minor keys (another "Well Tempered Lute" work). It is some of the most
expressive lute music of the Baroque, and lasts for 25 minutes, making it one of the longest pieces
of that time as well. Paul also has recent CDs of music by Vincenzo Galilei and Antonio Terzi.
Terzi's lute works require intense virtuosos playing. There is a major new edition of Terzi's lute
music published by A-R Editions in Wisconsin.

Post by Stefan Nowak

Post by no spam
By the way, if you were visiting Tom Poore in Cleveland Heights and
were to listen out his bedroom window on Thursday evening you'd hear
the sounds from Jacob Heringman's lute filtering down from Case
Western Resever Univerity starting at 7 p.m. He's at the Cleveland
Lute Festival, too. --------------

And Paul Beier will be heard one evening out there in Cleveland, too.

Post by Stefan Nowak
Yo, I would love to, the only poblem is that I live in Austria :-)

Yes, I know you're in Austria. Eastern? Near the Czech border? I once visited Passau, but that's
in Germany and I didn't cross the river (Danube?) into ...

Post by Stefan Nowak
Stefan

Regards, Beau Gus.

[Greg M Silverman]

no spam wrote:
[a snipping we shall go]

Post by no spam
He was one of the first regularly to use gut strings, and many didn't like his sound at first. They
were so accusotomed to Bream. By the way, I have NEVER heard unkind words said about Bream in the
lute community. Just admiration. He led a master class for the Lute Society (U.K.) just a few
months ago. And about 5 years ago he and his lute-guitar were featured on the cover of the Lute
Society of America Quarterly with a long interview inside by lute scholar Victor Coehlo. Greg and
Paul are totally wrong when they claim that lutenists consider Bream to be a hack. It simply is not
so. Never was. This is just more character assasination by proxy. It is particularly sad when the
mud slinging comes from a music journalists like Paul.

Now Beau,
I was just stating what I heard about lutenists and Bream. I never stated anything as fact, only as
question to the collective in RMCG.
If there was never any dissing of Bream by the lute community then that is good.

Hope you enjoy Cleveland and that you see the same pleasent weather that we are having here in Minne
Soda!

gms--

[Julian Tuwim]

Post by Greg M Silverman

Post by no spam
He was one of the first regularly to use gut strings, and many didn't like
his sound at first. They
were so accusotomed to Bream. By the way, I have NEVER heard unkind words
said about Bream in the
lute community. Just admiration. He led a master class for the Lute Society
(U.K.) just a few
months ago. And about 5 years ago he and his lute-guitar were featured on
the cover of the Lute
Society of America Quarterly with a long interview inside by lute scholar
Victor Coehlo. Greg and
Paul are totally wrong when they claim that lutenists consider Bream to be a
hack. It simply is not
so. Never was. This is just more character assasination by proxy. It is
particularly sad when the
mud slinging comes from a music journalists like Paul.

Now Beau,
I was just stating what I heard about lutenists and Bream. I never stated
anything as fact, only as
question to the collective in RMCG.
If there was never any dissing of Bream by the lute community then that is good.

I nave NEVER heard any Bream dissing in my 20 years in the lute community.

________________
http://polyhymnion.org

[Julian Tuwim]

Post by Stefan Nowak
Yo, I would love to, the only poblem is that I live in Austria :-)

Austria is not a total lutenistic backwater. Luciano Contini had been
teaching in Vienna for some time, and he is a very fine player.
There is Bernhard Hoffstötter in Mannersdorf, Hermann Platzer, Richard
Labschütz, Günther Eggner in Vienna, Friedrich Jäger in Neusidl, Peter
Rauscher in Stein, Herbert Altzinger in Gutau, Norbert Hackner in Gablitz.
JT
___________________
http://polyhymnion.org/swv

[Stefan Nowak]

Wow, thanks Julian, I don´t know _any_ of these, allthough Stein for
example is about 25 miles away from where I live :-)
I will have to look them up and try to get to a recital by one or
another of these guys, thanks.

Stefan

Post by Julian Tuwim

Post by Stefan Nowak
Yo, I would love to, the only poblem is that I live in Austria :-)

Austria is not a total lutenistic backwater. Luciano Contini had been
teaching in Vienna for some time, and he is a very fine player.
There is Bernhard Hoffstötter in Mannersdorf, Hermann Platzer, Richard
Labschütz, Günther Eggner in Vienna, Friedrich Jäger in Neusidl, Peter
Rauscher in Stein, Herbert Altzinger in Gutau, Norbert Hackner in
Gablitz. JT
___________________
http://polyhymnion.org/swv

[Stefan Nowak]

Post by no spam

Cd is his usage of an instrument called Orpahrion for some of the
pieces, it seems to be sort of a Lute with steel strings (?) and
sounds a little bit.... weired :-)

I tend to associate the orpharion with English music.

Was this a common instrument in England? The sound of steel strings is
not so smooth and "warm" than the sound of guts IMHO.

Post by no spam
I wonder where Benkö got one. I've met Daniel. He is a very nice,
gent;le person, unlike that picture on some of his LPs where he
scowls and looks like a gangster. I just wish that he could play a
little better. But that was a huge undertaking to play everything
Bakfark ever wrote.

He seems to be a little bit on the "rough" side concerning his playing
and interpretations. But when he plays dance forms his style is quite
entertaining, not sophisticated but nevertheless nice.

Post by no spam

What´s your opinion of O´Dette? I don´t have a CD by him.

I think O'Dette is surely THE virtuoso player of our time. He has so
many CDs out. But for obvious reasons, I like the ones that feature
music by Francesco da Milano.<g>

I don´t seem to be an insider, so I don´t know why the reasons are
obvious :-)

Post by no spam
And Marco dall'Aquila. He has a new
one out that includes music of John Johnson, and some of that stuff
really requires a virtuoso technique.

Now I´ve discovered that I own a CD on which he plays. It´s *English
Lute Duets*, together with Jakob Lindberg, very enjoyable and nice
acoustics, very bright and clear.

Post by no spam

One of the lutenists I also like is Anthony Bailes, I have a CD with
French Lute music (Mesangeau, Gaultier, Mouton), very beautiful and
charming music. It took me quite a while to get used to the french
style of lute music, but now I like it a lot. And Bailes really
delivers here...

Bailes is particularly good with the French repertory, I think.

Yep, I thougt so. I have another compilation by him and allthough it´s
quite good, too, it doesn´t move me in the same way as his french music
does.

Post by no spam

And thanks for the Heringman tip, it´s on my wishlist now.

He's become the latest darling of the lute crowd. And deservedly so.

There still seems to be much good lute music to discover...

Thanks for the other recommendations, too.

Post by no spam

And Paul Beier will be heard one evening out there in Cleveland, too.
Yo, I would love to, the only poblem is that I live in Austria :-)

Yes, I know you're in Austria. Eastern? Near the Czech border? I
once visited Passau, but that's in Germany and I didn't cross the
river (Danube?) into ...

I live near the danube in lower Austria, approximately in the middle
between Vienna and Linz (the second largest city in Austria, capital of
upper Austria).
It´s quite beautiful here :-)

Stefan

[John Wasak]

Post by Stefan Nowak

Post by John Wasak

Barto Weiss Recordings

Well, I like 'em. (Barto's, that is) Then again, I also like Nigel
North's playing of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas, Hopkinson Smith's
playing of the Bach Lute Works and Paul O'Dette's playing of Dowland.
So exactly what does all that mean?.....

That means there is a bunch of good lute music around :-)
Seriously, my point was that I think the approach to Weiss' music should
be different to other earlier lute music, because (as the liner notes in
the CD say) Weiss seemed to be heavily influenced by the "Italian Opera
Style", the melody lines seem to sing with belcanto.
Thus a restrained approach to his music doesnŽt seem to be appropriate.
You have to play his music a little bit (melo)dramatically and
"belcanto" _IMHO_.
And my second point was that maybe someone could point out a new kind of
perception of Bartos recordings to me, one that I havenŽt considered
yet.

I suppose that's possible, but also I don't think there's anything wrong
with not liking any particular performer's take on the music if it doesn't
align with your own thoughts on the music and the playing of it.

Post by Stefan Nowak
But I will give the later oneŽs in the series a listen, that was a good
hint.

Well, I didn't think there was an appreciable difference in how Barto plays
in the later Naxos volumes, but then I'm not a lutenist nor a Weiss expert.

Post by Stefan Nowak

Post by John Wasak
No idea.

Hey, IŽm always eager for good reasoned recommondations :-) By the way I
like Hopkinson SmithŽ Kapsberger stuff a lot, but I havenŽt got any time
now to explain, because I have to get to work, itŽs a quarter past 8
a.m. now in Austria *yawn* :-)
Stefan

Yeah, the Kapsberger I've heard I've liked.


jw

[Julian Tuwim]

Post by Stefan Nowak

Post by John Wasak
Well, I like 'em. (Barto's, that is) Then again, I also like Nigel
North's playing of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas, Hopkinson Smith's
playing of the Bach Lute Works and Paul O'Dette's playing of Dowland.
So exactly what does all that mean?.....

That means there is a bunch of good lute music around :-)
Seriously, my point was that I think the approach to Weiss' music should
be different to other earlier lute music, because (as the liner notes in
the CD say) Weiss seemed to be heavily influenced by the "Italian Opera
Style", the melody lines seem to sing with belcanto.
Thus a restrained approach to his music doesn´t seem to be appropriate.
You have to play his music a little bit (melo)dramatically and
"belcanto" _IMHO_.

For starters you have to play this music on its intended instrument.
JT

[Stefan Nowak]

Post by Julian Tuwim

Post by Stefan Nowak
Thus a restrained approach to his music doesn´t seem to be
appropriate. You have to play his music a little bit
(melo)dramatically and "belcanto" _IMHO_.

For starters you have to play this music on its intended instrument.

You think it isn´t possible to play the lute in a passionate style? I
don´t know, I never had a lute in my hands :-)

Stefan

[Julian Tuwim]

Post by Stefan Nowak

Post by Julian Tuwim

Post by Stefan Nowak
Thus a restrained approach to his music doesn´t seem to be
appropriate. You have to play his music a little bit
(melo)dramatically and "belcanto" _IMHO_.

For starters you have to play this music on its intended instrument.

You think it isn´t possible to play the lute in a passionate style? I
don´t know, I never had a lute in my hands :-)
Stefan

It is possible, however baroque lute is not conducive to melodrama. If you
really want to acquaint yourself with it You should join Lautengesellschaft.
Thay have info about teachers and luthiers, as well as used instruments for
sale.
JT
http://polyhymnion.org/swv

[Stefan Nowak]

Post by Julian Tuwim

Post by Stefan Nowak

Post by Julian Tuwim

Post by Stefan Nowak
Thus a restrained approach to his music doesn´t seem to be
appropriate. You have to play his music a little bit
(melo)dramatically and "belcanto" IMHO.

For starters you have to play this music on its intended instrument.

You think it isn´t possible to play the lute in a passionate style? I
don´t know, I never had a lute in my hands :-)

It is possible, however baroque lute is not conducive to melodrama.

Curious question: What´s your opinion on Kirchhof´s playing?

Post by Julian Tuwim
If you really want to acquaint yourself with it You should join
Lautengesellschaft.
Thay have info about teachers and luthiers, as well as used

instruments

Post by Julian Tuwim
for sale.

I don´t know if I am passionate enough about lute music to do this.
Listening and enjoying, yes, but to play the Lute and to read
tabulatures
for myself? I don´t know...
I think the guitar is more versatile for an amateur like me, but who
knows
what the future may bring? :-)

Stefan

[Tony Morris]

Post by Stefan Nowak
I wonder if I am the only one who is not so utterly impressed with the
Weiss Recordings (Robert Barto) on Naxos? I´ve googled the groups and
everyone seems to rave about them... For my taste they are played to
introverted and "muddled". You know what I mean? In my understanding is
Weiss´s music more "masculine" than the former french school of lute
music.
Some people recommended also the Lutz Kirchhof interpretations. I went
to amazon and listened to some examples and I´m quite impressed. He has
an very "expressionist" and down to earth style, he play the Suites more
*Bach-like* with good phrasing and strong dynamics.
Any opinions? I have to admit that I only have the First Barto-Weiss Cd,
are the others different?
Stefan

Hello Stefan,

I think Kirchhoff's Weiss Volume 2 is great- especially the f#minor
Sonata. I think he captures all the angst and drama of that piece
perfectly. It is one of those rare, classic recordings in which I
can't even imagine how it could possibly ever be played better. Very
powerful performance. In at least mood, that piece reminds me of the
opening to Bach's 1st Lute Suite.

I haven't heard all the Naxos Weiss CDs, but I do have Barto's volume
3, (Naxos 8.554350), and I recommend that one.

Tony Morris

[Stefan Nowak]

Post by Tony Morris
I think Kirchhoff's Weiss Volume 2 is great- especially the f#minor
Sonata. I think he captures all the angst and drama of that piece
perfectly. It is one of those rare, classic recordings in which I
can't even imagine how it could possibly ever be played better. Very
powerful performance. In at least mood, that piece reminds me of the
opening to Bach's 1st Lute Suite.

Yep, that was exactly my impression hearing the sound snippets. Like
you, I think that Weiss stands closer to Bach (musically speaking) than
to his fellow luthenists.

Post by Tony Morris
I haven't heard all the Naxos Weiss CDs, but I do have Barto's volume
3, (Naxos 8.554350), and I recommend that one.

Thanks, I will give it a try.

Stefan

[Richard Yates]

Post by no spam

Post by no spam
Even more excting has been the discovery just last year of Kapsberger's

long lost _Libro Terzo

Post by no spam
d'Intavolatura di Chitarrone_ (Rome 1626). It was purchased by the Yale

University Library from a

Post by no spam
private individual, and they didn't realize that it is the only copy in

existence. It has already

Post by no spam
been recorded by Diego Cantalupi (Cremona MVC 002009). The CD also

includes a FACSIMILE of the

Post by no spam
entire tablature!! So you get the sounds and the score all packed onto

one

Post by no spam
CD.

A very good CD. Four cautions, however:

- The listed timings are all completely wrong.
- Listed order of at least two pieces is incorrect (9 is Corrente seconda
and 10 is Corrente prima).
- The pdf facsimile is unreadable in many places.
- He has someone else playing continuo sometimes but does not list which
tracks.

Richard Yates