What should replace my Squeezebox system?

[nicky6]

Hi, I know it's really bad of me posting something like this here, but
it's time for it I feel.
I've been an avid fan of Slim Devices and bought the first Squeezebox
when it came out (2004?) after I enjoyed a friends SliMP3-powered (6
rooms) house. I've since added 2 Classics and two Radio. the server is
an now old HP X510 Data Vault running WHS.
I feel everything is getting too old now. The WHS eats disks because it
was never meant to be able to handle these 2TB WD RED disks.
Then Logitech went and killed the Squeezeboxes in favour of the UE. I've
had several issues with the Media Center as well.

So, I need to change my setup. But to what? I'd really prefer to keep
the 4 2TB WD RED disks, put them in a new cheap server running maybe
Windows Server 2012 Foundation and Media Center on top of that. Is it
possible? Or should I opt for a NAS? Then which one? (I want to be able
to do backups of my 3 Macbook Pro's too really)

And the players... I wanted to replace the radios in favour of Touch and
maybe the Classics too. But now, I'm not sure. Sonos? No, I don't want
to be like everyone else. AppleTV - despite not being audiophile, it was
descent enough. But it was horrible to play different music in different
rooms or synced in all or a ew rooms. So now the two AppleTV's only
serve Netflix and iTunes movies.

So guys, pleeeeaase help me out! I want good audio quality, from a
manufacturer that will be here in 5 -10 years time. Serving 200GB music
and if possible act as a backup for my Macbooks. Last thing is low
priority though. Want to play both FLAC, MP3, AAC (protected and non-,
either native or transcoded to FLAC/MP3) and OGG (Spotify). Want to be
able to play synced in zones or different music in each zone.
App-controlled of course (I love Squeezepad and iPeng is pretty ok on
the phone).

Heeeelp! :)

Oh, the same price point. Not some Meridian, Krell etc super xpensive
stuff.


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[audiomuze]

Mate, with all due respect, are you living under a rock? Get yourself a
Wandboard, add an external DAC with a USB input and get on with enjoying
your music. The only thing defunct about the Squeezebox architecture is
your frame of reference.



digital groove | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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[garym]

from a manufacturer that will be here in 5 -10 years time

In today's fast paced business world, this means almost nobody
qualifies. But there are numerous options, including many that continue
to use LMS as the server/database. See some of these old threads for
examples:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98886-State-of-play-in-the-Squeezebox-replacement-world-6-13&highlight=replacement+squeezebox
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97721-Logitech-SqueezeBox-replacement-for-under-30&highlight=replacement+squeezebox



*Location 1:* VortexBox Appliance 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Transporter,
Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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[Apesbrain]

ATM, there's no better alternative out there; you've named the top
contenders and they all have trade-offs. I can understand wanting
something "new" but what exactly is your issue with the Squeezebox
system you have? Sounds like it does what you want, but you have server
problems. Why not build a server with all the RAID you need and run
linux version of LMS? Get a small SSD or USB drive for your system and
recycle your four WD hard drives for storage. Parts will run you about
$300 at newegg and assembly will take an hour or so. May be a bit
painstaking to configure -- 'Vortexbox' (http://vortexbox.org) is
probably the easiest place to start -- but afterward should be stable
and bulletproof. Others on the Forum will help you along the way. Run
XBMC on it and you can serve up video as well. If you prefer Windows,
go that way; it doesn't really matter. My advice is not to get a NAS;
none seem to have enough CPU power that they don't eventually get
stressed out by the demands of a larger media library.

If you're worried about scarcity of SB hardware, get up to speed on
development work by other Forum members referenced above. I am
particularly interested in this investigation into low-cost android
player options:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?99865-Android-TV-Sticks-Boxes-as-Squeezebox-Replacement

Maybe best to get a Time Capsule to back up your Macs.


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[garym]

Post by Apesbrain
ATM, there's no better alternative out there; you've named the top
contenders and they all have trade-offs. I can understand wanting
something "new" but what exactly is your issue with the Squeezebox
system you have? Sounds like it does what you want, but you have server
problems. Why not build a server with all the RAID you need and run
linux version of LMS? Get a small SSD or USB drive for your system and
recycle your four WD hard drives for storage. Parts will run you about
$300 at newegg and assembly will take an hour or so. May be a bit
painstaking to configure -- 'Vortexbox' (http://vortexbox.org) is
probably the easiest place to start -- but afterward should be stable
and bulletproof. Others on the Forum will help you along the way. Run
XBMC on it and you can serve up video as well. If you prefer Windows,
go that way; it doesn't really matter. My advice is not to get a NAS;
none seem to have enough CPU power that they don't eventually get
stressed out by the demands of a larger media library.
If you're worried about scarcity of SB hardware, get up to speed on
development work by other Forum members referenced above. I am
particularly interested in this investigation into low-cost android
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?99865-Android-TV-Sticks-Boxes-as-Squeezebox-Replacement
Maybe best to get a Time Capsule to back up your Macs.

+1. And with the vortexbox system on a headless computer, you won't need
XBMC (or maybe it is that it is already installed). Anyhow, I can
stream video with my vortexbox server out of the box with nothing extra.



*Location 1:* VortexBox Appliance 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Transporter,
Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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[maggior]

I am particularly interested in this investigation into low-cost android
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?99865-Android-TV-Sticks-Boxes-as-Squeezebox-Replacement

I'm intrigued by this too!! These are more functional than the old
squeezebox receiver and cheaper!! If you are familiar with android, it
looks like the setup on it is not a big deal. The only drawback of a
solution like that is Rhapsody won't work (perhaps others too) because
they require real squeezebox hardware and won't work with the software
players.



Rich
---------
Setup: 2 SB3s, 4 Booms, 1 Duet, 1 Receiver, 1 Touch, iPeng on iPod
Touch, SqueezeCommander, OrangeSqueeze, and SqueezePlayer on Xoom and
Galaxy Player 4.2. CentOS 6.3 Server running LogitechMediaServer 7.7.2
and SqueezeSlave.
Current library stats: 40,810 songs, 3,153 albums, 582 artists.
http://www.last.fm/user/maggior
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[froth]

My rule of thumb is Rip everything to FLAC first. That way if needed
these flac files can be converted to MP3 using a batch process. I do
this on a regular basis so I can then take my compressed tunes on my
iThings and the likes.


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[headed4hires]

I may have missed it, but I didn't see anyone talking about the Surface
RT tablet from Microsoft as a replacement for Squeezebox devices.

Like original poster on this thread, I have my music on a Windows Home
Server system (HP Datavault), including MP3s and FLAC files, some of
which are 24-bit high-res files I have been buying recently.

In addition to two SB Classics and a Touch, I had been using a dell
laptop connected by USB to a DAC on one of the all-too-many stereo
systems around the house. The laptop's fan is annoying when I'm
listening to a quiet passage, and I have other plans for that unit.

I paid $350 for Microsoft Surface RT tablet recently, which is not much
more than I paid for the SB units.

It has no fan. (Unlike the Surface Pro, which does have a fan, and is
far more expensive.)
It "sees" the Windows server with the music on my home LAN.
It has a USB port to connect to the DAC.
Mediamonkey app running on the Surface RT is conversant with the
Logitech Media Server software on the server, via UPnP, and plays all my
music files.

There are a few minor issues (I heard a few hiccups in the playback
while MS was pushing OS updates at the tablet), but did not require any
fancy configuration footwork, just WiFi access point, which I already
had.

Finding out if this would work before I took the plunge was the trickest
part. I actually carried a DAC to the Microsoft store and a pair of
headphones to prove to myself that the output side would function.

Yes you have to spend some time getting used to the Windows 8 interface.
But given that I'm already invested in Microsoft infrastructure, this
was I think one of the easiest ways to go. I know there's a lot of
anti-Microsoft factionism out there, but if you are looking for a
company that is likely to be still around in 5 years, I think you can
put Microsoft on the list.


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[qnology]

Using the Surface RT would be interesting.

I wonder if we can compile LMS and Squeezelite and side load/install
them on the Surface RT?


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[Gingernut63]

I have a Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2 (ARM processor) running Windows 8 with
SqueezePlay installed. I've tried it with two DACs, a Muse Mini USB DAC
and a Behringer UCA202 with no problems. Won't use it this way myself
but good to know there are no problems with this approach.

Not a fan of Windows 8 but it's a much better fit with my setup than an
Android or Apple tablet. It's good to see that there are now multiple
approaches to running a successful Squeezebox system. Long may it live.



MonkeySqueeze - Squeezing music into your life!
http://twitter.com/#!/MonkeySqueeze1
MonkeySqueeze Support:
http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59515
MonkeySqueeze Development:
http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=59907
1 x Boom - 2 x Duets - 2 x piCorePlayer/Raspberry Pi - iPeng on 2 x iPod
Touch -
Orange Squeeze/Squeeze Player on Android Phone -
SqueezePlay/MediaMonkey on ThinkPad Tablet 2
HP N40L MicroServer running WHS 2011 and LMS
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[nicky6]

Post by audiomuze
Mate, with all due respect, are you living under a rock? Get yourself a
Wandboard, add an external DAC with a USB input and get on with enjoying
your music. The only thing defunct about the Squeezebox architecture is
your frame of reference.

Well, I knew I asked for it, right!
And YES, I HAVE been living under rock

I forgot to say - I don't want to hack around / tinker with the stuff.
I'm intrigued by the Sonos "it just works" philosophy.

Someone asked what is my issue really with the system - Media Center I
think. But maybe it's the hardware that makes Media Center lag, freeze
etc...

So, to get the same audio quality/DAC, I need to tinker with some DYI
HW&SW? Hm, I was hoping there was something like the Sonos (plug'n'play)
or the Olive (too bad it only serves four rooms, and also I'd like some
cheaper models for e.g. the bathrooms. That's why the SB's was so great.
The radios was perfect for the bathrooms)


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[audiomuze]

Post by nicky6
Well, I knew I asked for it, right!
And YES, I HAVE been living under rock
I forgot to say - I don't want to hack around / tinker with the stuff.
I'm intrigued by the Sonos "it just works" philosophy.
Someone asked what is my issue really with the system - Media Center I
think. But maybe it's the hardware that makes Media Center lag, freeze
etc...
So, to get the same audio quality/DAC, I need to tinker with some DYI
HW&SW? Hm, I was hoping there was something like the Sonos (plug'n'play)
or the Olive (too bad it only serves four rooms, and also I'd like some
cheaper models for e.g. the bathrooms. That's why the SB's was so great.
The radios was perfect for the bathrooms)

Nah, you didn't just ask for it, the reason for my statement was because
the forum is abound with means of getting past the fact that there is no
more Squeezebox hardware and you handn't mentioned you don't want to
tinker. Truth be told though the tinkering is no different to setting
up a media server - in fact I'd say it's quite a bit simpler given OS's
like Vortexbox where all the heavy lifting has been done for you. If
you need additional hardware the Wandboard is a brilliant way to add
Squeezebox capability to any room with minimal hassle. The Wandboard
actually makes a great LMS host as well, so if you're up for a bit of
tinkering there's a no compromise path. If not, you're headed don the
road of compromise e.g. Sonos can only handle a finite number of tracks.



digital groove | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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[JohnB]

Post by nicky6
Someone asked what is my issue really with the system - Media Center I
think. But maybe it's the hardware that makes Media Center lag, freeze
etc...
From what you have written I get the impression that you are having

problems with the Data Vault hardware ("The WHS eats disks because it
was never meant to be able to handle these 2TB WD RED disks", etc). So
the first priority has got to be to sort that out before doing anything
else.

I run LMS on a HP Microserver which, according to the specs I found on
the web, is less powerful than your HP X510 Data Vault but it always
runs perfectly. (I've also run LMS on an old XP laptop without any
problems whatsoever.)

(I use a Touch + Ipeng on an iPad and have a second Touch and an old
Duet in storage as backups.)



Touch, Meridian G92, Meridian G55, PMC FB1+ speakers, HP Proliant
Microserver/Ubuntu, PC/Windows 7, iPad 4, iPeng, Squeezepad.
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[leafygreens]

I use a Pogoplug with ArchLinuxArm installed. The Pogoplugs are $25,
add an $8 usb DAC, and $10 wireless USB adapter and you have the player
unit that can connect to speakers and receivers where ever they are.
Install Squeezelite player for the players, and install LMC on the same
Pogoplug. Remotely controlled via my computer, wife's laptop, or the
family tablet.


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[mikeh49]

@leafygreens - PM sent about your Pogoplug setup. A few questions. :)


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[qnology]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum. I just picked up a couple of Logitech UE Radio
which I downgraded to the SqueezeBox OS.

For instructions on setting up SqueezeBox Server (LMS) and Squeezelite
on a Pogoplug you can check my blog - google"qnology squeezebox"

I'm a new user on this forum so can not post a direct link (yet).

[Edit]
http://blog.qnology.com/2013/03/tutorial-pogoplug-e02-with-arch-linux.html


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[leafygreens]

Post by mikeh49
@leafygreens - PM sent about your Pogoplug setup. A few questions. :)
For instructions on setting up SqueezeBox Server (LMS) and Squeezelite
on a Pogoplug you can check my blog - google"qnology squeezebox"
I'm a new user on this forum so can not post a direct link (yet).
[Edit]
http://blog.qnology.com/2013/03/tutorial-pogoplug-e02-with-arch-linux.html

I second qnology's recommendation above. I used it for my system and it
works great. Qui, another program that would compliment the LMC and
Squeezelite setup is the new MagicPlay protocol. It's open source and
works on Raspberry Pi, but nothing for ALArm yet.


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[bpa]

Post by nicky6
So guys, pleeeeaase help me out! I want good audio quality, from a
manufacturer that will be here in 5 -10 years time.

There is no way you can predict who will or will not be here in the
future. Small vendors with low volume, high value ( and high profit)
product are more likely to stay in the market segment but you don't want
to pay premium price.

Big vendors (who will be around in 5 yrs) can make big investments and
just as easily pull out again - remember Linksys/Ciso's home audio (
http://www.digitaltrends.com/media-streamer-reviews/linksys-wireless-home-audio-system-review/
)
There is no guarantee that Sonos will last as the market is changing and
it is basiclaly a one product (albeit with a few variations) company -
does Sonos have the revenue & resources necessary to develop new
products ?

I think the only way to get the guarantee you want is to take complete
control - otherwise buy an off the shelf product with the expectation
that technology will change in the next 3-5yrs.


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[CarlyneNellie]

The 7 Hour Power Bundle from Rayovac could be 'the best external battery
pack for iPhone' (best external battery pack for iphone) users. Not only
will it save you time, but worry as well.

'micro usb battery pack'
(http://www.rayovac.com/Products/Portable-Power-Chargers/micro-usb-portable-battery-pack-2-hour-power-bundle.aspx)

'portable iphone charger'
(http://www.rayovac.com/Products/Portable-Power-Chargers/PS68-iPhone-Recharge-with-Portable-Android-Cell-Phone-Charger.aspx)


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[aubuti]

Post by nicky6
Hi, I know it's really bad of me posting something like this here, but
it's time for it I feel.
<snip>
Heeeelp! :)

It's hard to know where to begin, because it's not clear to me in what
way SBs are inadequate for your needs. More important, you seem to have
a lot of conflicting needs/wants in a music system. If you really want
an SB replacement now, you'll need to make some compromises.

- your WHS can't handle large disks -- that's not the fault of SBs. Get
an OS on your server that can, or divide your music serving needs (200
GB) from your backup needs (8 TB!?)
- you have several unspecified issues with Media Center, by which I
suppose you mean Logitech Media Server (LMS). That could by OS issues
again, or something else, but it's nothing inherently wrong with LMS.
- you "don't want to be like everyone else", by which you rule out Sonos
and Apple, but you want something that "just works" without having to
tinker with anything
- you also don't want to spend anything more than SB, Sonos, or Olive
One type prices -- that will limit you if you don't want to tinker
- you want to be able to play protected AAC -- I could be wrong, but I
think that limits you to Apple products
- you want to know that the manufacturer will be here in 5-10 years time
(or really, the product line, because Logitech is still here, but fat
lot of good that does for SB users....) -- good luck with that!

My two cents?
First, get your server working the way it should. This will probably
mean changing the OS and/or the hardware. Then once you have it so that
LMS runs smoothly and it's not "eating" hard drives, see if you're happy
again with the SB system.

If that works out okay, then see about picking up however many Touch or
SB3/Classic players you need from eBay, Craigslist, or other resellers.
Or venture into the community-driven SB substitutes based on a
Wandboard, or using iThing or Android-based players.

That could easily get you through the next several years. And by the
time that becomes obsolete, the network music system terrain will have
changed dramatically, and you will have a new set of choices.



Nothing high-end, but music anywhere I want it, and it's '100% wind
powered' (http://www.cleancurrents.com/). 'MSI single-core Atom
mini-desktop'
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167032)
('Debian' (http://www.debian.org/) Squeeze 6.0.x) feeding: Living room:
'SB Touch'
(http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/logitech_squeezebox_touch_network_music_player/index.html)

Post by nicky6
'NAD C325 BEE'

(http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-325BEE-Stereo-Integrated-Amplifier?products/hifi-amplifiers/C325BEE-Stereo-Integrated-Amplifier)

Post by nicky6
'Vandersteen 1' (http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/1clit.html);

Kitchen/Dining: 'SB2'
(http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20050428023747/http://www.slimdevices.com/)

Post by nicky6
'AudioSource Amp100'

(http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AMP-100-2-Channel-Bridgeable-Amplifier/dp/B00026BQJ6)

Post by nicky6
2 pair of 'Polk RC60i'

(http://www.polkaudio.com/customaudio/rci/index.php?s=rc60i); Basement:
'SB2'
(http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20050428023747/http://www.slimdevices.com/)

Post by nicky6
'JVC JA-S44'

(http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=204813) > 'ESS
Tempest LS8'
(http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/205237-ess_tempest_ls_8_speakers/);
Bedroom: 'SB Radio'
(http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-audio-receivers-dars/logitech-squeezebox-radio-black/4505-6470_7-33770452.html);
Study: 'Squeezelite local player'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97046-Announce-Squeezelite-a-small-headless-squeezeplay-emulator-for-linux-(alsa-only)&highlight=squeezelite)

Post by nicky6
'Klipsch ProMedia 2.0'

(http://www.klipsch.com/promedia-ultra-2-0-computer-speaker-system);
Backyard deck: 'SB Receiver'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Receiver) > 'AudioSource Amp100'
(http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AMP-100-2-Channel-Bridgeable-Amplifier/dp/B00026BQJ6)

Post by nicky6
'Polk Atrium 45'

(http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/atrium/index.php#atrium45); Kid's
bedroom: 'Boom'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Squeezebox_Boom); Roaming
controllers: Retina iPad with Squeezepad & iPeng, iPod touch with iPeng,
3 'SB Duet Controllers'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Controller), various SB infrared
remotes, 'Nokia N800' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N800); In the
bullpen (boxed up and ready to use if one of the above quits): 'SB3'
(http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20051210015952/http://slimdevices.com/)
and one more 'SB Receiver'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Receiver)
http://www.last.fm/user/aubuti/
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[Ikabob]

I may be naive and over-dramatic, but I would really be lost and I'd
probably go into a state of depression with out my Squeezebox. I do not
think I could ever replace the ecosystem I have set up. It ROCKS!



Ikabob


Squeezebox Touch w/LMS;Benchmark DAC1 USB;Marantz Pre-amp; SAE
Amplifier;ESS Heil Speakers(main listening speakers plus various
additional speakers).
Multiple players: SqueezeBooms,SqueezeRadios; SB3;
Services:Slacker;Sky.com; MOG;
Sirius.com;
Ipeng remote controller.
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[nicky6]

Well guys, I ordered a HP MicroServer N54L which was on sale, but this
time without Windows Server 2012 Foundation. 8GB RAM. I guess the AMD
Turion won't be on its knees like the Atom 3xx that's in my current
server (actually only running LMS and I've also turned off the
demigrator).

Will install some Linux dist on it. Anything that's recommended? I don't
know anything about Linux, but I do want some kind of RAID (RAID 0 and 1
supported on HW controller)


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[Julf]

Post by nicky6
Will install some Linux dist on it. Anything that's recommended? I don't
know anything about Linux, but I do want some kind of RAID (RAID 0 and 1
supported on HW controller)

I still think Ubuntu is probably the easiest.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[audiomuze]

Post by Julf
I still think Ubuntu is probably the easiest.

Agreed. Off the top I'd have said Vortexbox, but I'm not sure how
easily RAID could be configured. If ripping and tagging of CDs will be
done using another PC I'd definitely opt for Ubuntu Server 64 bit. PM
me if you want a hand with some instructions/ things to help make the
job an easy one.



digital groove | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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[garym]

Post by audiomuze
Agreed. Off the top I'd have said Vortexbox, but I'm not sure how
easily RAID could be configured.

I might drop the RAID requirement when looking at options. Of course
RAID is *not* a backup solution. (google for plenty of horror stories
for those that thought RAID meant backup!). RAID is useful for
operations where any downtime is a real problem or costly (bank, online
merchant,etc.). Immediate access to backup is not typically needed for
personal files.



*Location 1:* VortexBox Appliance 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Transporter,
Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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[aubuti]

Post by garym
I might drop the RAID requirement when looking at options. Of course
RAID is *not* a backup solution. (google for plenty of horror stories
for those that thought RAID meant backup!). RAID is useful for
operations where any downtime is a real problem or costly (bank, online
merchant,etc.). Immediate access to backup is not typically needed for
personal files.

+100
RAID != backup

For the two purposes the OP mentioned (serving music and backing up 3
Macbook Pros) it's hard to see a need for RAID. On the other hand, the
need for an offline (and ideally off-site) backup is crystal clear.

Of course, 8GB RAM is complete overkill for those purposes, too, so
maybe there is some other use that is driving these choices.

NB: I had to google 'demigrator', as I'd never come across it before.
Yikes, another reason for not running WHS....


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[garym]

(*)EDIT: oh, and if the machine really will be used only for running LMS
and backing up the Macbooks, then installing Vortexbox seems like a
hands-down winner for ease of use.

yes, I use Vortexbox (currently with 4TB) and it runs LMS, holds my
music, and provides a network location to back up other personal files.



*Location 1:* VortexBox Appliance 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Transporter,
Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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[erland]

Post by nicky6
So guys, pleeeeaase help me out! I want good audio quality, from a
manufacturer that will be here in 5 -10 years time.

For what it's worth, if you would have asked back in 2008, I doubt
anyone would be willing to promise that Squeezebox would be around
2013.

It's pretty likely that Logitech will still be here in 5-10 years time,
the question is just if they will still sell audio streaming equipment
and I guess you are really looking for a product family that will be
here in 5-10 times rather than the manufacturer itself.

To ensure that something works over long time, you really need an open
solution that can continue to work after the hardware vendor stops
selling the devices and preferably something that's based on a software
solution which isn't restricted to a single hardware vendor. In my mind,
this would mean something that's based on Linux or Android and allows
installation of third party software. It's likely going to be a more or
less home brewed solution and you are unlikely going to be able to buy
the exact same hardware in 5-10 years, but since they allow installation
of third party software you can probably make old devices and new
devices work together in the same eco system.

If you are ONLY interested in good audio quality, your best bet is
probably to choose one of the HiFi manufacturers, the problem is just
that these system often have less good support for online streaming
services and music discovery functionality. The alternative to this, is
to focus on a system that allows you to use an external high end DAC,
but then we are probably talking about the home brewed Android/Linux
solutions mentioned above.

Sonos is a good compromise between features and audio quality, just be
aware that you are buying into a rather closed system where you more or
less will be restricted to the functionality Sonos decides to
implement.

There are a lot of other different start-ups and new manufacturers, but
it's hard to tell which ones that will still be here and still focus on
music in 5-10 years time. If you choose one of these, make sure you
choose someone that's focused on music rather than focused on making all
kinds of different hardware, the ones focused at music are most likely
to also do that in 5-10 years if they are still alive by then.

Having said all this, I suspect the way we listen to music is going to
change a lot in 5-10 years, so it's hard to guarantee that a system
that's good today is going to be good also in 5-10 years time.



Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets (both free and commercial)'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland).
If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third
party plugin/applet development, 'consider purchasing some plugins'
(http://license.isaksson.info))
You may also want to try my Android apps 'Squeeze Display'
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.isaksson.squeezedisplay)
and 'RSS Photo Show'
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.isaksson.rssphotoshow)
*Interested in the future of music streaming ? 'ickStream - A world of
music at your fingertips'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98467-Pre-Announcement-ickStream&p=743516)*.
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[nicky6]

I agree that RAID != backup :)
It's just that the way WHS functioned with some sort of mirroring, has
saved me several times when the disks has gone bad. Just hotswapped the
disk with a new one and hey presto!

Erland, regarding your answer - I almost fully agree. Except that I
don't think an open software base solution always is the best solution.
It demands an enthusiastic and GIVING crowd, rather than just leeches
like me. Which s my I so much appreciated the SB family of users, like
yourself who have provided us with so many good features/plugins.

I decided, based on the input here, to keep the SB's and try to source
more. Do you think the Classics/SB3's should go in favour of Touch?

VortexBox vs Ubuntu as the framework for my music server, which also
needs to do TimeMachine backups, serve/store/backup my several hundred
gigs of photos and store the occasional videos (and since my behaviour
has gone away from torrent downloads to actually renting through iTunes,
I probably do not need that option) hmmmm.... I must do my home work!
And ask audiomuze for some help :)


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[erland]

Post by nicky6
I decided, based on the input here, to keep the SB's and try to source
more. Do you think the Classics/SB3's should go in favour of Touch?

In my mind, the only reason to hang on to a Classic/SB3 is if you love
the VFD display on the Classic/SB3 and hate the LCD display on the
Touch.

Except for this, the Touch has better sound, is more likely to work in
the future since Logitech still maintains the Touch firmware, have the
possibility to install third party applets and if needed it's also
possible for third parties to patch the Touch firmware.



Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets (both free and commercial)'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland).
If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third
party plugin/applet development, 'consider purchasing some plugins'
(http://license.isaksson.info))
You may also want to try my Android apps 'Squeeze Display'
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.isaksson.squeezedisplay)
and 'RSS Photo Show'
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.isaksson.rssphotoshow)
*Interested in the future of music streaming ? 'ickStream - A world of
music at your fingertips'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98467-Pre-Announcement-ickStream&p=743516)*.
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[d6jg]

If (big if) you can live with 320kbps MP3 then LMS is pretty much future
proof. You can simply swap to something else whenever you want. It's the
HD formats that don't transfer to other digital audio solutions very
easily but nevertheless LMS and the Squeezebox range of players coupled
with iPeng and Squeezeplay etc is the best thing (that was) on the
market there is/was.



QNAP TS419p 4Tb LMS7.6.1
Living Room - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - > Celestion
Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 -> Sony TA FE 320 ->
Sennheiser HDR 130
Office - SB3 -> Sony TA FE320 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
Bedroom - SBT -> Topping TP21 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
Remote - Squeezeplay -> Windows XP PC -> USB Speakers
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[garym]

Post by d6jg
If (big if) you can live with 320kbps MP3 then LMS is pretty much future
proof. You can simply swap to something else whenever you want. It's the
HD formats that don't transfer to other digital audio solutions very
easily but nevertheless LMS and the Squeezebox range of players coupled
with iPeng and Squeezeplay etc is the best thing (that was) on the
market there is/was.

This statement confuses me. What issues do you see with a FLAC
(lossless) file that makes it less future proof?



*Location 1:* VortexBox Appliance 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Transporter,
Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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[d6jg]

You can move MP3s to say a cloud based solution (Google Play Music or
iCloud etc) and play your music with virtually anything anywhere but you
can't do that with FLAC (unfortunately)



QNAP TS419p 4Tb LMS7.6.1
Living Room - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - > Celestion
Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 -> Sony TA FE 320 ->
Sennheiser HDR 130
Office - SB3 -> Sony TA FE320 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
Bedroom - SBT -> Topping TP21 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
Remote - Squeezeplay -> Windows XP PC -> USB Speakers
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[garym]

Post by d6jg
You can move MP3s to say a cloud based solution (Google Play Music or
iCloud etc) and play your music with virtually anything anywhere but you
can't do that with FLAC (unfortunately)

I see your point. But not being able to use a cloud service is very
different from not being future proof. As long as the Internet works I
can play either flac files or transcoded to mp3 files from my own home
server on almost anything, anywhere in the world.



*Location 1:* VortexBox Appliance 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Transporter,
Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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[d6jg]

I really mean if someone is at all worried about LMS / SB long term but
are prepared to go MP3 then they really needn't worry at all. If you
stay FLAC and LMS goes west and you can't find an audiophile replacement
you are going to have a big job converting all your FLAC to MP3. I don't
see LMS disappearing for some considerable time so I'm sticking with it
:-)



QNAP TS419p 4Tb LMS7.6.1
Living Room - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - > Celestion
Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 -> Sony TA FE 320 ->
Sennheiser HDR 130
Office - SB3 -> Sony TA FE320 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
Bedroom - SBT -> Topping TP21 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
Remote - Squeezeplay -> Windows XP PC -> USB Speakers
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[d6jg]

I didn't know about transcoding on upload - even better. I use Google
Music to backup my MP3s (will have to use a second Gmail account
shortly) and play them on my iPhone in places where I can't get remote
access to my server (occurs quite a bit when your IP address keeps
changing and your security relies on Dynamic DNS for firewall pass
through).



QNAP TS419p 4Tb LMS7.6.1
Living Room - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - > Celestion
Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 -> Sony TA FE 320 ->
Sennheiser HDR 130
Office - SB3 -> Sony TA FE320 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
Bedroom - SBT -> Topping TP21 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
Remote - Squeezeplay -> Windows XP PC -> USB Speakers
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[jimbobvfr400]

Post by d6jg
I really mean if someone is at all worried about LMS / SB long term but
are prepared to go MP3 then they really needn't worry at all. If you
stay FLAC and LMS goes west and you can't find an audiophile replacement
you are going to have a big job converting all your FLAC to MP3. I don't
see LMS disappearing for some considerable time so I'm sticking with it
:-)

Even if you did for whatever reason need to do that you can easily use
something like foobar to convert the lot as a batch job, yes not might
take a while but just leave it going.

In all honestly whatever future solution ends up replacing yours or my
squeezebox I can't imagine it not supporting FLAC (unless it's Apple
based of course)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4




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[nicky6]

Awesome info guys!

So, the Touch is the best, sound wise, of all the SB's (excl. the
Transporter)?
There are a lot (5...) of Duets for sale here in Sweden, and not Touch
and neither the SB3/Classics. The Duet has less good sound, am I
correct?

And yes Erland, when I ripped my CD's (about 1000) back in 2002-2003, I
did them as 320Kbps VBR MP3's. I'm not sure I want to go through the
process doing FLAC's instead, and rating all the music again just to
have the music rated 3-5 available for listening and the rest archived.
Any companies out there that can do the ripping and fetching the meta
data (Except the rating of course)?

Sorry that the thread grows and grows. It's been a while I was here and
there are so much info everywhere that it's impossible to find all the
info I need. But you guys are so very helpful, thanks a lot for that!

/Niclas


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[Julf]

When I ripped my CD's (about 1000) back in 2002-2003, I did them as
320Kbps VBR MP3's. I'm not sure I want to go through the process doing
FLAC's instead, and rating all the music again just to have the music
rated 3-5 available for listening and the rest archived. Any companies
out there that can do the ripping and fetching the meta data (Except the
rating of course)?

Most decent ripping programs fetch the metadata automatically.

The problem with having only mp3's is that you ever want to move to
another format, converting one lossy compression format to another tends
to be a very lossy operation, whereas a FLAC collection can always be
converted to whatever other format with minimum loss, as you haven't
actually discarded any data.



"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this
fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt
edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
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[Mnyb]

Post by Julf
Most decent ripping programs fetch the metadata automatically.
The problem with having only mp3's is that you ever want to move to
another format, converting one lossy compression format to another tends
to be a very lossy operation, whereas a FLAC collection can always be
converted to whatever other format with minimum loss, as you haven't
actually discarded any data.

+1 especialy to another lossles format in the future .

yes i ripped >1000 albums to mp3 which i later reripped to FLAC :)

Oh and backup everything.....



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
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[erland]

Post by nicky6
So, the Touch is the best, sound wise, of all the SB's (excl. the
Transporter)?

Correct

Post by nicky6
There are a lot (5...) of Duets for sale here in Sweden, and not Touch
and neither the SB3/Classics. The Duet has less good sound, am I
correct?

I think most people agree that the Touch is a little bit better than
Duet/SB3/Classic but it all depends on what other equipment you connect
them to. If you don't have a high-end amplifier and speakers you might
not notice the difference. I think the difference is generally a bit
bigger if you use the analog outputs than if you use the digital
outputs.

Post by nicky6
And yes Erland, when I ripped my CD's (about 1000) back in 2002-2003, I
did them as 320Kbps VBR MP3's. I'm not sure I want to go through the
process doing FLAC's instead, and rating all the music again just to
have the music rated 3-5 available for listening and the rest archived.
Any companies out there that can do the ripping and fetching the meta
data (Except the rating of course)?

I can feel your pain, I've been in the same situation myself but my
collection was significantly smaller with around 300 albums when I
decided to re-rip it in FLAC format. You don't have to have the whole
collection the same format, so one way to handle it is to start
re-ripping the stuff you listen to often or music which you want to be
in the best possible quality.

There are several services available that lets you send them your CD's
and they will rip them for you, typically for a one time fee, but I
haven't tried any of them myself so I don't want to recommend a specific
one. Since we are talking about physically sending the CD it might also
be important where the service provider is located so you don't have to
send the CD's to the other side of the world.



Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets (both free and commercial)'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland).
If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third
party plugin/applet development, 'consider purchasing some plugins'
(http://license.isaksson.info))
You may also want to try my Android apps 'Squeeze Display'
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.isaksson.squeezedisplay)
and 'RSS Photo Show'
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.isaksson.rssphotoshow)
*Interested in the future of music streaming ? 'ickStream - A world of
music at your fingertips'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98467-Pre-Announcement-ickStream&p=743516)*.
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[audiomuze]

If you've a PC with sufficient RAM and multiple DVD drives it's trivial
to rip a few hundred CDs because you can use dbpoweramp's batch ripper
to rip 4-5 concurrently. Do 10 or 20 a night and before you know it
you're done.



digital groove | 'Vivere DAC MKI'
(http://vivereaudio.com/post/2013/08/16/DAC-I-is-Born!.aspx) | 'ATC
SCA2'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/electronics/source-pre-amplifiers/sca2/)
| 'ATC SCM100ASLT'
(http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm100aslt/)

*'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger'
(http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html):
'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* - now packaged in most
Linux distributions.
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[nicky6]

Post by erland
I think most people agree that the Touch is a little bit better than
Duet/SB3/Classic but it all depends on what other equipment you connect
them to.

Ah, I thought the Duet didn't have as good DAC etc as the SB3/Classic.
But you mean they are pretty much the same, and with the same sound
quality?
If that's the case, I could just pick up the Duets then... It's just at
my main HiFi that I would be able to spot any difference in sound
anyway.

/Niclas


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[erland]

Post by nicky6
Ah, I thought the Duet didn't have as good DAC etc as the SB3/Classic.
But you mean they are pretty much the same, and with the same sound
quality?

I haven't compared Duet towards Classic from an audiophile perspective,
so I can't say for sure.

However, if you search a bit in the forum, you will find other who have
compared them, here are some samples
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96806-Sound-quality-comparison-between-classic-SB3-Duet-Touch-etc
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?76952-SB3-vs-Duet
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?76553-Duet-or-Classic
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?73141-classic-or-duet
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?61108-Classic-or-Duet
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?92805-Duet-sound-quality-compared-to-Touch-DAC-etc

Personally, I would choose the Classic because it has a screen, but its
usefulness probably depends on where you will place it and how much you
love the Logitech Squeezebox Controller remote control that's part of
the Duet package.



Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets (both free and commercial)'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland).
If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third
party plugin/applet development, 'consider purchasing some plugins'
(http://license.isaksson.info))
You may also want to try my Android apps 'Squeeze Display'
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.isaksson.squeezedisplay)
and 'RSS Photo Show'
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.isaksson.rssphotoshow)
*Interested in the future of music streaming ? 'ickStream - A world of
music at your fingertips'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98467-Pre-Announcement-ickStream&p=743516)*.
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[garym]

I have a transporter, touches, sb3, and have had duet. In my opinion,
unless one has a very discriminating system, the likelihood of hearing
any differences is very, very low. The duet can be a pain because it has
no screen for setup, etc.



*Location 1:* VortexBox Appliance 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Transporter,
Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.7.2 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > SqueezePlay
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD & SqueezePad),
CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify
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[jimbobvfr400]

Post by d6jg
You can move MP3s to say a cloud based solution (Google Play Music or
iCloud etc) and play your music with virtually anything anywhere but you
can't do that with FLAC (unfortunately)

The Google music desktop thingy does transcoding of my Flacs to mp3 when
it automatically uploads.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4




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[JohnSwenson]

If you really need to run RAID, go with software RAID in linux. It has
been around for a long time, and will continue to be around for a long
time and is the same in all versions of linux. If you try and use some
form of hardware RAID you are stuck with that implementation, if the
motherboard dies and you get a new one, it must have EXACTLY the same
hardware RAID otherwise your array is down the tubes.

I had a RAID5 array with linux software RAID for many years, it worked
perfectly with three different motherboards and 5 different versions of
linux. BTW he reason I had a RAID array was so that a bunch of disks
could be combined into one volume. Years ago my local computer store had
a screaming good deal on 256G drives so I bought a whole bunch and set
them up as RAID for a lot less than a single large disk would have cost.
That array lasted for a long time until I finally decided to go with a
single large drive instead of RAID.

The drives are so cheap now I just manually do a clone onto a rotation
of other equivalent drives, if there is ever a problem it is just swap
the drive.

I personally would go with Vortexbox, it is super simple to setup and
can host pictures, videos etc as well as LMS.

I'm actually using a FitPC2 (Atom based, tiny little box) with VB as my
main server, it works great even though it is an atom system, and only
takes 5 watts! If you are doing more, particularly video stuff, a faster
board would probably be useful.

As to VB or a regular linux distribution, VB is a fairly modern Fedora
distro with LMS and various other servers pre installed. It is
specifically designed as a headless server, all administration is done
through a web page interface. Even if your hardware has a monitor it
won't use it since it doesn't start X. Since it is at heart a Fedora
distro you can easily add other packages that don't come with it using
the standard package management tools.

The advantage is that it comes outof the box setup as a headless server
for pretty much anything you might want. The downside is you don't get
a GUI screen. If you WANT to use that specific computer to control music
playing with wizzy GUI interfaces you can't. You can't play video games
on it, it is purely a server. But it is probably the easiest server out
there to get up and running.

I have probably done 30 different linux installations with many
different versions, so I'm fairly up on linux, but I would still go with
VB for a server, it just does that task so well and is so easy to setup
and maintain.

BTW you CAN setup RAID on VB, but it's not part of it's builtin web page
administration system. You have to remotely login to a shell and run a
few commands and then the array looks just like a normal disk that all
the rest of the software is happy to work with.

John S.


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