Roger Ebert

[Adam H. Kerman]

I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.

From a "great movie" review of guess which movie:

It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

[b***@my-deja.com]

Wait… Let me think… It’s a Weather Channel documentary…The rain in Spain?

—
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog

[Arthur Lipscomb]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow it
down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but it
has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now I'm
thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on popular or
at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most people would
recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is where
knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!

So what's the answer?

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow it
down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but it
has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now I'm
thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on popular or
at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most people would
recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is where
knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

You were right the first time. It was a musical. It's a variation on
Henry Higgins' boast in My Fair Lady, dialogue straight from Shaw's
Pygmallion.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow it
down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but it
has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now I'm
thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on popular or
at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most people would
recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is where
knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG

You are as wrong as Ian!

https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

[Arthur Lipscomb]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow it
down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but it
has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now I'm
thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on popular or
at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most people would
recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is where
knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

I strongly disagree with the premise. It might be true if Ebert wrote
the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow it
down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but it
has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now I'm
thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on popular or
at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most people would
recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is where
knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow it
down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but it
has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now I'm
thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on popular or
at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most people would
recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is where
knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!

Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball

Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 19:50:14 -0700 Arthur

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow it
down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but it
has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now I'm
thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on popular or
at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most people would
recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is where
knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

[Arthur Lipscomb]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 19:50:14 -0700 Arthur

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow it
down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but it
has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now I'm
thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on popular or
at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most people would
recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is where
knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

What variety show was airing on TV in 2006 that played any of the songs
from the movie? Ebert was conflating 1964 culture with 2006 culture.
The two are *not* the same. If a movie is really popular, you can
arguably assume that even people who never saw it would be aware of it,
but only during the time period it was released. Someone else commented
"Saturday Night Fever" meets the definition, and that's true in the
70s/early 80s. And My Fair Lady would have met the definition in the
60s, but not past that point.

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

The only one I remember is The Rain in Spain. Now that I think about
it, I also remember "Why Can't the English" and "Why Can't A Woman Be
More Like a Man?" I guess, "Wouldn't It Be Lovely" although I don't
recall the words or melody.

And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
. . .
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

The Sound of Music was extremely popular with audiences, both as musical
theater and the movie adaptation, but no one, absolutely no one, would
consider it to be high culture. You've heard Christopher Plummer over
the years, and it's the most popular movie he was ever in.

It's entertaining because one's brain likes it, not because it creates
complex characters with something interesting to say that requires a lot
of thought.

btw, Rogers and Hammerstein made a quick attempt to adapt Pymalion into
a musical but quickly threw up their hands. The play "violates" the
conventions of a book that's readily turned into a musical. There's no
love story. Musicals typically "require" both a main love story and a
secondary love story.

Somehow Lerner and Loewe figured it out by mostly keeping the play
intact and putting Shaw's words to music. It's brilliant.

Refreshing my memory, Shaw was unhappy with a musical adaptation of one
of his previous works and refused to cooperate with the adaptation of
this, so the adaptation happened after he died. Lerner and Loewe knew
they'd be competing with big movie studios for adaptation rights. The
began work on the adaptation on spec, just hoping they'd be awarded the
rights because they'd be so far ahead of everybody else. It worked.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Roger Ebert
July 22, 2020 at 10:12:35 AM MST

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
. . .
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

The Sound of Music was extremely popular with audiences, both as musical
theater and the movie adaptation, but no one, absolutely no one, would
consider it to be high culture. You've heard Christopher Plummer over
the years, and it's the most popular movie he was ever in.

I couldn't have told you he was in it. I could have named Julie Andrews, Mrs.
Robert Urich, and Penny from Lost in Space.

Plummer, I'd say:
Star Trek VI
Dracula 2000 (the one where they got the Millennium wrong)
National Treasure
Murder By Decree
The Adventures of Stella Starr
Departure ('cause I just watched it)
Counterstrike (always had a fondness for that one)

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
. . .
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

The Sound of Music was extremely popular with audiences, both as musical
theater and the movie adaptation, but no one, absolutely no one, would
consider it to be high culture. You've heard Christopher Plummer over
the years, and it's the most popular movie he was ever in.

I couldn't have told you he was in it. I could have named Julie Andrews, Mrs.
Robert Urich, and Penny from Lost in Space.

It's amazing that Angela Cartwright had such a major career as a pre-teen.

Post by anim8rfsk
Star Trek VI
Dracula 2000 (the one where they got the Millennium wrong)
National Treasure
Murder By Decree
The Adventures of Stella Starr
Departure ('cause I just watched it)
Counterstrike (always had a fondness for that one)

I always think of him from The Silent Parner, but no one ever sees that.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
. . .
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

The Sound of Music was extremely popular with audiences, both as musical
theater and the movie adaptation, but no one, absolutely no one, would
consider it to be high culture. You've heard Christopher Plummer over
the years, and it's the most popular movie he was ever in.

I couldn't have told you he was in it. I could have named Julie Andrews, Mrs.
Robert Urich, and Penny from Lost in Space.

It's amazing that Angela Cartwright had such a major career as a pre-teen.

Post by anim8rfsk
Star Trek VI
Dracula 2000 (the one where they got the Millennium wrong)
National Treasure
Murder By Decree
The Adventures of Stella Starr
Departure ('cause I just watched it)
Counterstrike (always had a fondness for that one)

I always think of him from The Silent Parner, but no one ever sees that.

I always think of him when I see his daughter in something.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 19:50:14 -0700 Arthur

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow it
down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but it
has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now I'm
thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on popular
or
at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most people would
recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is where
knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

What variety show was airing on TV in 2006 that played any of the songs
from the movie? Ebert was conflating 1964 culture with 2006 culture.
The two are *not* the same. If a movie is really popular, you can
arguably assume that even people who never saw it would be aware of it,
but only during the time period it was released. Someone else commented
"Saturday Night Fever" meets the definition, and that's true in the
70s/early 80s. And My Fair Lady would have met the definition in the
60s, but not past that point.

I'd have been too young to be aware of musical theater in the 60s and even
the 70s. I had to come to know all these songs later than that.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

The only one I remember is The Rain in Spain. Now that I think about
it, I also remember "Why Can't the English" and "Why Can't A Woman Be
More Like a Man?" I guess, "Wouldn't It Be Lovely" although I don't
recall the words or melody.

I could sing any of these:
Wouldn't It Be Loverly
Get Me To The Church on Time
The Rain in Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
On the Street Where You Live
I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

Now, see, other than the title song, I couldn't name a tune from Sound of
Music, which I've also never seen.

[suzeeq]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 19:50:14 -0700 Arthur

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow it
down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but it
has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now I'm
thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on popular or
at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most people would
recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is where
knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

What variety show was airing on TV in 2006 that played any of the songs
from the movie? Ebert was conflating 1964 culture with 2006 culture.
The two are *not* the same. If a movie is really popular, you can
arguably assume that even people who never saw it would be aware of it,
but only during the time period it was released. Someone else commented
"Saturday Night Fever" meets the definition, and that's true in the
70s/early 80s. And My Fair Lady would have met the definition in the
60s, but not past that point.

I'd have been too young to be aware of musical theater in the 60s and even
the 70s. I had to come to know all these songs later than that.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

The only one I remember is The Rain in Spain. Now that I think about
it, I also remember "Why Can't the English" and "Why Can't A Woman Be
More Like a Man?" I guess, "Wouldn't It Be Lovely" although I don't
recall the words or melody.

Wouldn't It Be Loverly
Get Me To The Church on Time
The Rain in Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
On the Street Where You Live
I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

Now, see, other than the title song, I couldn't name a tune from Sound of
Music, which I've also never seen.

Do Re Mi, 16 going on 17 and a couple more which I can't remember right now.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by suzeeq

Post by anim8rfsk
. . .

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

Now, see, other than the title song, I couldn't name a tune from Sound of
Music, which I've also never seen.

Do Re Mi, 16 going on 17 and a couple more which I can't remember right now.

If I were to be mean, I'd repeat the lyric "The hills are alive" and then
you wouldn't be able to get the tune out of your head for a few days,
and then all you might think about is Julie Andrews constantly being
blown over, falling on her face in the mud, because of the helicopter's
blades, which is how the cameraman filmed the sequence on the hill.

But I would never do that to you.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by anim8rfsk
. . .

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

Now, see, other than the title song, I couldn't name a tune from Sound of
Music, which I've also never seen.

Do Re Mi, 16 going on 17 and a couple more which I can't remember right now.

If I were to be mean, I'd repeat the lyric "The hills are alive" and then
you wouldn't be able to get the tune out of your head for a few days,
and then all you might think about is Julie Andrews constantly being
blown over, falling on her face in the mud, because of the helicopter's
blades, which is how the cameraman filmed the sequence on the hill.
But I would never do that to you.

Now it would just be a tiny drone she'd barely notice.

[suzeeq]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by anim8rfsk
. . .

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

Now, see, other than the title song, I couldn't name a tune from Sound of
Music, which I've also never seen.

Do Re Mi, 16 going on 17 and a couple more which I can't remember right now.

If I were to be mean, I'd repeat the lyric "The hills are alive" and then
you wouldn't be able to get the tune out of your head for a few days,
and then all you might think about is Julie Andrews constantly being
blown over, falling on her face in the mud, because of the helicopter's
blades, which is how the cameraman filmed the sequence on the hill.
But I would never do that to you.

Now it would just be a tiny drone she'd barely notice.

I don't think it would generate enough wind.

[suzeeq]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by anim8rfsk
. . .

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

Now, see, other than the title song, I couldn't name a tune from Sound of
Music, which I've also never seen.

Do Re Mi, 16 going on 17 and a couple more which I can't remember right now.

If I were to be mean, I'd repeat the lyric "The hills are alive" and then

That's part of the title song; I was filling in a few for Anim.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
you wouldn't be able to get the tune out of your head for a few days,
and then all you might think about is Julie Andrews constantly being
blown over, falling on her face in the mud, because of the helicopter's
blades, which is how the cameraman filmed the sequence on the hill.
But I would never do that to you.

Yes you would.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by suzeeq

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 19:50:14 -0700 Arthur

21 Jul 2020 11:55:48 -0700 Arthur

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow it
down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but it
has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now I'm
thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on popular
or
at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most people
would
recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is where
knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally
illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

What variety show was airing on TV in 2006 that played any of the songs
from the movie? Ebert was conflating 1964 culture with 2006 culture.
The two are *not* the same. If a movie is really popular, you can
arguably assume that even people who never saw it would be aware of it,
but only during the time period it was released. Someone else commented
"Saturday Night Fever" meets the definition, and that's true in the
70s/early 80s. And My Fair Lady would have met the definition in the
60s, but not past that point.

I'd have been too young to be aware of musical theater in the 60s and even
the 70s. I had to come to know all these songs later than that.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

The only one I remember is The Rain in Spain. Now that I think about
it, I also remember "Why Can't the English" and "Why Can't A Woman Be
More Like a Man?" I guess, "Wouldn't It Be Lovely" although I don't
recall the words or melody.

Wouldn't It Be Loverly
Get Me To The Church on Time
The Rain in Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
On the Street Where You Live
I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The Sound
of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much bigger hit
at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

Now, see, other than the title song, I couldn't name a tune from Sound of
Music, which I've also never seen.

Do Re Mi, 16 going on 17 and a couple more which I can't remember right now.

Okay, thanks, I know both those songs, but I had no idea they were from TSoM.

[Micky DuPree]

Post by suzeeq

Wed, 22 Jul 2020 08:24:07 -0700 Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The
Sound of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much
bigger hit at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

Now, see, other than the title song, I couldn't name a tune from
Sound of Music, which I've also never seen.

Do Re Mi, 16 going on 17 and a couple more which I can't remember right now.

"My Favorite Things" ("Raindrops on Roses")
"Edelweiss"
"Climb Every Mountain"
"How Do You Solve a Problem Like Maria"
"So Long, Farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, Goodbye"
that yodeling song

I don't think I've seen it since the early '70s myself, but a lot of the
songs have stuck. They did get a lot of play back in the day. I think
the songs from _My Fair Lady_ that made it big were the romance songs,
like "I Could Have Danced All Night," "On the Street Where You Live,"
and "I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face."

-Micky

[The Horny Goat]

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:57:48 +0000 (UTC),

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by suzeeq

Wed, 22 Jul 2020 08:24:07 -0700 Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The
Sound of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much
bigger hit at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

Now, see, other than the title song, I couldn't name a tune from
Sound of Music, which I've also never seen.

Do Re Mi, 16 going on 17 and a couple more which I can't remember right now.

"My Favorite Things" ("Raindrops on Roses")
"Edelweiss"
"Climb Every Mountain"
"How Do You Solve a Problem Like Maria"
"So Long, Farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, Goodbye"
that yodeling song
I don't think I've seen it since the early '70s myself, but a lot of the
songs have stuck. They did get a lot of play back in the day. I think
the songs from _My Fair Lady_ that made it big were the romance songs,
like "I Could Have Danced All Night," "On the Street Where You Live,"
and "I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face."
-Micky

I had a grade 6 teacher who was a huge fan of Julie Andrews and since
she was the school's music teacher that's how most of the kids in my
class learned the songs from Mary Poppins and Sound of Music.

There's a reason that 50 years later I can still sing all the songs
you list above.

Hint: 16 going on 17 sounds a LOT different when sung by an 11 year
old!

[Micky DuPree]

Post by The Horny Goat
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:57:48 +0000 (UTC),

I don't think I've seen [_The Sound of Music_] since the early '70s
myself, but a lot of the songs have stuck. They did get a lot of
play back in the day. I think the songs from _My Fair Lady_ that
made it big were the romance songs, like "I Could Have Danced All
Night," "On the Street Where You Live," and "I've Grown Accustomed to
Her Face."

I had a grade 6 teacher who was a huge fan of Julie Andrews and since
she was the school's music teacher that's how most of the kids in my
class learned the songs from Mary Poppins and Sound of Music.
There's a reason that 50 years later I can still sing all the songs
you list above.

I've had worse curricula.

Post by The Horny Goat
Hint: 16 going on 17 sounds a LOT different when sung by an 11 year
old!

Both parts being sopranos? (And naturally, songs about sexual
maturation sound precocious that young.)

-Micky

[Micky DuPree]

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 19:50:14 -0700 Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

I strongly disagree with the premise. It might be true if Ebert
wrote the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006.
My Fair Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can
claim people in 2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are
culturally illiterate! I love musicals and I've seen the movie
before, and even I could only name *one* song from the movie.

Plus, you're one of the biggest movie buffs I know. I'm actually
staggered by the number of movies you not only have the time to watch,
but also rewatch. And people who love musicals aren't nearly as common
today as they were in the '60s.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Yet Ebert is claiming that *most* people in 2006 can would
recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt most people in 2006
have even seen the movie and since *none* of the songs are popular
enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be familiar with the
music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to
look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

What variety show was airing on TV in 2006 that played any of the
songs from the movie? Ebert was conflating 1964 culture with 2006
culture. The two are *not* the same.

Completely agree. I can't think of a single old-style variety show
after 1980 that lasted more than one season. The only remnants of that
kind of vaudevillian bill of fare are the late-night talk shows. They
might feature music from a current Broadway show, but not from _My Fair
Lady_.

There is a great divide in pop culture, running roughly along
pre-MTV-inception/post-MTV-inception lines, and also corresponding to
pre-50%-cable-adoption and post-50%-cable-adoption. In order to have a
shared cultural literacy, we have to have shared exposure. When I was
growing up in the '60s and '70s, America not only watched mostly the
same new TV shows, but also the same old TV shows from the '50s in
reruns and much of the back catalog of '30s, '40s, and '50s movies on
Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Hollywood movies that were just a few
years old would be prime-time fare (panned and scanned, but we watched
them). I'm sure I first saw _My Fair Lady_ that way, as a "Saturday
Night at the Movies" special or some such in the late '60s or early
'70s. Variety shows would rehash music, comedy, and even sometimes
dramatic bits from movies and plays. We either all saw the same pop
culture from around the '30s through the early '80s, or else at least
heard about it even if it wasn't to our taste, or if we were watching a
different channel on those nights.

That changed in the '80s. Kids didn't grow up all watching the same
thing anymore. Those that had cable maybe watched Nickelodeon. Those
that didn't, didn't. MTV had an influence that went beyond cable.
Local music-video stations sprang up for a while. Movies and TV started
being edited faster. It got to a point where most young people would
refuse to watch almost anything before 1980, especially if it was in
black and white. I started to get a sense of this in the '90s when I
was a recitation instructor in a survey film course, and realized I
couldn't take a shared background for granted. This lack of shared
cultural literacy really hit home around 2000 when I found that my own
niece and nephew, in their teens by then, had never even heard of _All
in the Family_. The closest I could come was that they had seen _The
Princess Bride_, though they couldn't name the director, nor knew that
he had ever been famous for anything else.

Of the people born in the '80s or after, only musical theater
aficianados or classic movie buffs are passably familiar with _My Fair
Lady_. Fewer still are familiar with _Pygmalion_. Even fewer know the
Greek myth.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
If a movie is really popular, you can arguably assume that even people
who never saw it would be aware of it, but only during the time period
it was released. Someone else commented "Saturday Night Fever" meets
the definition, and that's true in the 70s/early 80s. And My Fair
Lady would have met the definition in the 60s, but not past that
point.

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

Maybe people might be vaguely familiar with the bit leading up to "The
Rain in Spain," because the "By George, I think she's got it!" sequence
has been repeated so often that people might know it without realizing
where it's from. But I doubt most Millennials know the song. Of
course, _Pygmalion_ was spoofed in an episode of _Gilligan's Island_,
but people under around 30 may not have seen that either. (I'm not sure
when TBS stopped running it.)

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
The only one I remember is The Rain in Spain. Now that I think about
it, I also remember "Why Can't the English" and "Why Can't A Woman Be
More Like a Man?" I guess, "Wouldn't It Be Lovely" although I don't
recall the words or melody.
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The
Sound of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much
bigger hit at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

If you have to pick a musical, maybe (and I admit I can't think of a
better known '60s musical offhand). The things that tend to remain in
consciousness are genre films (because buffs of those genres keep the
flame alive), star vehicles for stars that have endured, and movies that
are later remade. The Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns are still well
known from the '60s (if not universally viewed) because Clint Eastwood
still has Hollywood clout. _Bullitt_ is probably one of the best known
cop movies from the '60s because it's still famous for its chase scene
(though I wasn't bowled over). _Night of the Living Dead_ keeps getting
mentioned by horror buffs to this day. People have heard of the
original _Planet of the Apes_ because A) science fiction buffs mention
it, and B) it's been remade since the year 2000. And of course people
have at least a sense of the history of the James Bond movies because
the franchise survives to this day, and sometimes a cable outlet will
have a marathon.

But while 35-year-olds can probably tell you that Paul Newman was an
actor who made salad dressing, most of them probably can't tell you
where "What we have here is a failure to communicate" came from. They
can tell you who John Wayne was, but it's less likely they've watched
one of his movies. Not only might they not be familiar with _My Fair
Lady_, they might not even recognize the name Rex Harrison.

-Micky

[Arthur Lipscomb]

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 19:50:14 -0700 Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

I strongly disagree with the premise. It might be true if Ebert
wrote the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006.
My Fair Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can
claim people in 2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are
culturally illiterate! I love musicals and I've seen the movie
before, and even I could only name *one* song from the movie.

Plus, you're one of the biggest movie buffs I know. I'm actually
staggered by the number of movies you not only have the time to watch,
but also rewatch. And people who love musicals aren't nearly as common
today as they were in the '60s.

I've always been a couch potato. But thanks to the pandemic, I'm stuck
at home all day every day. I can't go anywhere, not even to the movies.
So especially on the weekends, where I would have otherwise gone
somewhere, I'm pretty much just watching TV all day. I'm using it to
catch up on my movies. :-)

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Yet Ebert is claiming that *most* people in 2006 can would
recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt most people in 2006
have even seen the movie and since *none* of the songs are popular
enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be familiar with the
music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to
look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

What variety show was airing on TV in 2006 that played any of the
songs from the movie? Ebert was conflating 1964 culture with 2006
culture. The two are *not* the same.

Completely agree. I can't think of a single old-style variety show
after 1980 that lasted more than one season. The only remnants of that
kind of vaudevillian bill of fare are the late-night talk shows. They
might feature music from a current Broadway show, but not from _My Fair
Lady_.
There is a great divide in pop culture, running roughly along
pre-MTV-inception/post-MTV-inception lines, and also corresponding to
pre-50%-cable-adoption and post-50%-cable-adoption. In order to have a
shared cultural literacy, we have to have shared exposure. When I was
growing up in the '60s and '70s, America not only watched mostly the
same new TV shows, but also the same old TV shows from the '50s in
reruns and much of the back catalog of '30s, '40s, and '50s movies on
Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Hollywood movies that were just a few
years old would be prime-time fare (panned and scanned, but we watched
them). I'm sure I first saw _My Fair Lady_ that way, as a "Saturday
Night at the Movies" special or some such in the late '60s or early
'70s. Variety shows would rehash music, comedy, and even sometimes
dramatic bits from movies and plays. We either all saw the same pop
culture from around the '30s through the early '80s, or else at least
heard about it even if it wasn't to our taste, or if we were watching a
different channel on those nights.
That changed in the '80s. Kids didn't grow up all watching the same
thing anymore. Those that had cable maybe watched Nickelodeon. Those
that didn't, didn't. MTV had an influence that went beyond cable.

I can speak from personal experience as a kid in the 80s, I watched
Nickelodeon, not MTV. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I
think much of the pop culture image of MTV was propaganda put out by MTV
and stereotypes put out by adults. I'm not saying I never watched MTV,
but Nickelodeon was by far the larger influence on me at the time. Of
course I'm speaking from a "child" point of view, not a "teenager" point
of view in the 80s.

Post by Micky DuPree
Local music-video stations sprang up for a while. Movies and TV started
being edited faster. It got to a point where most young people would
refuse to watch almost anything before 1980, especially if it was in
black and white. I started to get a sense of this in the '90s when I
was a recitation instructor in a survey film course, and realized I
couldn't take a shared background for granted. This lack of shared
cultural literacy really hit home around 2000 when I found that my own
niece and nephew, in their teens by then, had never even heard of _All
in the Family_. The closest I could come was that they had seen _The
Princess Bride_, though they couldn't name the director, nor knew that
he had ever been famous for anything else.
Of the people born in the '80s or after, only musical theater
aficianados or classic movie buffs are passably familiar with _My Fair
Lady_. Fewer still are familiar with _Pygmalion_. Even fewer know the
Greek myth.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
If a movie is really popular, you can arguably assume that even people
who never saw it would be aware of it, but only during the time period
it was released. Someone else commented "Saturday Night Fever" meets
the definition, and that's true in the 70s/early 80s. And My Fair
Lady would have met the definition in the 60s, but not past that
point.

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

Maybe people might be vaguely familiar with the bit leading up to "The
Rain in Spain," because the "By George, I think she's got it!" sequence
has been repeated so often that people might know it without realizing
where it's from. But I doubt most Millennials know the song. Of
course, _Pygmalion_ was spoofed in an episode of _Gilligan's Island_,
but people under around 30 may not have seen that either. (I'm not sure
when TBS stopped running it.)

I think I remember that episode. Sometimes I think about the shows I
grew up watching, many of which were canceled long before I was born,
that future generations will never know even existed. When there are
only a handful of channels, you watch whatever is on, regardless of when
it was originally produced. Some of the best shows I ever saw I
randomly stumbled upon. But if they don't even air them any more, they
are lost to history.

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
The only one I remember is The Rain in Spain. Now that I think about
it, I also remember "Why Can't the English" and "Why Can't A Woman Be
More Like a Man?" I guess, "Wouldn't It Be Lovely" although I don't
recall the words or melody.
And if Ebert was going to use a movie from that time period, "The
Sound of Music" is by far a superior choice. That one was a much
bigger hit at least remained more consistently in popular culture.

If you have to pick a musical, maybe (and I admit I can't think of a
better known '60s musical offhand). The things that tend to remain in
consciousness are genre films (because buffs of those genres keep the
flame alive), star vehicles for stars that have endured, and movies that
are later remade. The Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns are still well
known from the '60s (if not universally viewed) because Clint Eastwood
still has Hollywood clout. _Bullitt_ is probably one of the best known
cop movies from the '60s because it's still famous for its chase scene
(though I wasn't bowled over). _Night of the Living Dead_ keeps getting
mentioned by horror buffs to this day. People have heard of the
original _Planet of the Apes_ because A) science fiction buffs mention
it, and B) it's been remade since the year 2000. And of course people
have at least a sense of the history of the James Bond movies because
the franchise survives to this day, and sometimes a cable outlet will
have a marathon.
But while 35-year-olds can probably tell you that Paul Newman was an
actor who made salad dressing, most of them probably can't tell you
where "What we have here is a failure to communicate" came from. They
can tell you who John Wayne was, but it's less likely they've watched
one of his movies. Not only might they not be familiar with _My Fair
Lady_, they might not even recognize the name Rex Harrison.
-Micky

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Roger Ebert
August 3, 2020 at 8:31:01 PM MST

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 19:50:14 -0700 Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

I strongly disagree with the premise. It might be true if Ebert
wrote the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006.
My Fair Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can
claim people in 2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are
culturally illiterate! I love musicals and I've seen the movie
before, and even I could only name *one* song from the movie.

Plus, you're one of the biggest movie buffs I know. I'm actually
staggered by the number of movies you not only have the time to watch,
but also rewatch. And people who love musicals aren't nearly as common
today as they were in the '60s.

I've always been a couch potato. But thanks to the pandemic, I'm stuck
at home all day every day. I can't go anywhere, not even to the movies.
So especially on the weekends, where I would have otherwise gone
somewhere, I'm pretty much just watching TV all day. I'm using it to
catch up on my movies. :-)

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Yet Ebert is claiming that *most* people in 2006 can would
recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt most people in 2006
have even seen the movie and since *none* of the songs are popular
enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be familiar with the
music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to
look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

What variety show was airing on TV in 2006 that played any of the
songs from the movie? Ebert was conflating 1964 culture with 2006
culture. The two are *not* the same.

Completely agree. I can't think of a single old-style variety show
after 1980 that lasted more than one season. The only remnants of that
kind of vaudevillian bill of fare are the late-night talk shows. They
might feature music from a current Broadway show, but not from _My Fair
Lady_.
There is a great divide in pop culture, running roughly along
pre-MTV-inception/post-MTV-inception lines, and also corresponding to
pre-50%-cable-adoption and post-50%-cable-adoption. In order to have a
shared cultural literacy, we have to have shared exposure. When I was
growing up in the '60s and '70s, America not only watched mostly the
same new TV shows, but also the same old TV shows from the '50s in
reruns and much of the back catalog of '30s, '40s, and '50s movies on
Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Hollywood movies that were just a few
years old would be prime-time fare (panned and scanned, but we watched
them). I'm sure I first saw _My Fair Lady_ that way, as a "Saturday
Night at the Movies" special or some such in the late '60s or early
'70s. Variety shows would rehash music, comedy, and even sometimes
dramatic bits from movies and plays. We either all saw the same pop
culture from around the '30s through the early '80s, or else at least
heard about it even if it wasn't to our taste, or if we were watching a
different channel on those nights.
That changed in the '80s. Kids didn't grow up all watching the same
thing anymore. Those that had cable maybe watched Nickelodeon. Those
that didn't, didn't. MTV had an influence that went beyond cable.

I can speak from personal experience as a kid in the 80s, I watched
Nickelodeon, not MTV. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I
think much of the pop culture image of MTV was propaganda put out by MTV
and stereotypes put out by adults. I'm not saying I never watched MTV,
but Nickelodeon was by far the larger influence on me at the time. Of
course I'm speaking from a "child" point of view, not a "teenager" point
of view in the 80s.

Local music-video stations sprang up for a while. Movies and TV started
being edited faster. It got to a point where most young people would
refuse to watch almost anything before 1980, especially if it was in
black and white. I started to get a sense of this in the '90s when I
was a recitation instructor in a survey film course, and realized I
couldn't take a shared background for granted. This lack of shared
cultural literacy really hit home around 2000 when I found that my own
niece and nephew, in their teens by then, had never even heard of _All
in the Family_. The closest I could come was that they had seen _The
Princess Bride_, though they couldn't name the director, nor knew that
he had ever been famous for anything else.
Of the people born in the '80s or after, only musical theater
aficianados or classic movie buffs are passably familiar with _My Fair
Lady_. Fewer still are familiar with _Pygmalion_. Even fewer know the
Greek myth.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
If a movie is really popular, you can arguably assume that even people
who never saw it would be aware of it, but only during the time period
it was released. Someone else commented "Saturday Night Fever" meets
the definition, and that's true in the 70s/early 80s. And My Fair
Lady would have met the definition in the 60s, but not past that
point.

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

Maybe people might be vaguely familiar with the bit leading up to "The
Rain in Spain," because the "By George, I think she's got it!" sequence
has been repeated so often that people might know it without realizing
where it's from. But I doubt most Millennials know the song. Of
course, _Pygmalion_ was spoofed in an episode of _Gilligan's Island_,
but people under around 30 may not have seen that either. (I'm not sure
when TBS stopped running it.)

I think I remember that episode. Sometimes I think about the shows I
grew up watching, many of which were canceled long before I was born,
that future generations will never know even existed. When there are
only a handful of channels, you watch whatever is on, regardless of when
it was originally produced. Some of the best shows I ever saw I
randomly stumbled upon. But if they don't even air them any more, they
are lost to history.

It's a bit in this one:
https://gilligan.fandom.com/wiki/And_Then_There_Were_None

[Micky DuPree]

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 19:50:14 -0700 Arthur Lipscomb

Post by anim8rfsk
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

I strongly disagree with the premise. It might be true if Ebert
wrote the article in 1965, but that article was published in
2006. My Fair Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way
Ebert can claim people in 2006 not familiar with that 42 year
old movie are culturally illiterate! I love musicals and I've
seen the movie before, and even I could only name *one* song
from the movie.

Plus, you're one of the biggest movie buffs I know. I'm actually
staggered by the number of movies you not only have the time to
watch, but also rewatch. And people who love musicals aren't nearly
as common today as they were in the '60s.

I've always been a couch potato. But thanks to the pandemic, I'm
stuck at home all day every day. I can't go anywhere, not even to the
movies.
So especially on the weekends, where I would have otherwise gone
somewhere, I'm pretty much just watching TV all day. I'm using it to
catch up on my movies. :-)

You've really stored up for a rainy day (or year).

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
What variety show was airing on TV in 2006 that played any of the
songs from the movie? Ebert was conflating 1964 culture with 2006
culture. The two are *not* the same.

Completely agree. I can't think of a single old-style variety show
after 1980 that lasted more than one season. The only remnants of
that kind of vaudevillian bill of fare are the late-night talk shows.
They might feature music from a current Broadway show, but not from
_My Fair Lady_.
There is a great divide in pop culture, running roughly along
pre-MTV-inception/post-MTV-inception lines, and also corresponding to
pre-50%-cable-adoption and post-50%-cable-adoption. In order to have
a shared cultural literacy, we have to have shared exposure. When I
was growing up in the '60s and '70s, America not only watched mostly
the same new TV shows, but also the same old TV shows from the '50s
in reruns and much of the back catalog of '30s, '40s, and '50s movies
on Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Hollywood movies that were just a
few years old would be prime-time fare (panned and scanned, but we
watched them). I'm sure I first saw _My Fair Lady_ that way, as a
"Saturday Night at the Movies" special or some such in the late '60s
or early '70s. Variety shows would rehash music, comedy, and even
sometimes dramatic bits from movies and plays. We either all saw the
same pop culture from around the '30s through the early '80s, or else
at least heard about it even if it wasn't to our taste, or if we were
watching a different channel on those nights.
That changed in the '80s. Kids didn't grow up all watching the same
thing anymore. Those that had cable maybe watched Nickelodeon.
Those that didn't, didn't. MTV had an influence that went beyond
cable.

I can speak from personal experience as a kid in the 80s, I watched
Nickelodeon, not MTV.

Watching Nickelodeon has to do with shared cultural material with other
kids who had cable back in the day. But MTV has to do with more than
just content.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I think much of the pop
culture image of MTV was propaganda put out by MTV and stereotypes put
out by adults. I'm not saying I never watched MTV, but Nickelodeon
was by far the larger influence on me at the time. Of course I'm
speaking from a "child" point of view, not a "teenager" point of view
in the 80s.

I'm using "MTV" as a shorthand for "the influence of the music video
style on other types and genres of film and video production." It
doesn't matter if you never watched the MTV channel itself at all, nor
even any music videos. The increasing pace of editing and the
condensation/eliding of plot that had been going on for decades before
the rise of the pop/rock/hip-hop music video suddenly accelerated in the
music video format, and from there spread to other forms of TV and
movies. Probably the most remarked upon TV show at the time (in terms
of people recognizing the influence of music videos on it) was _Miami
Vice_. The pace of the dramas that were trying to be at the forefront
got fast enough that by the time of _Max Headroom_, I'm convinced that
the producers were consciously making material that was so quickly
edited, they expected their viewers to tape the episodes, and
freeze-frame them to get all the details.

It didn't happen to everything in audiovisual media all at once, and not
everyone experienced it all at once (obviously, it would have been
foolish for _Murder, She Wrote_ and _Matlock_ to try to emulate the pace
of music videos), but the influence spread widely. It made permanent
changes in the pace of A/V art. Most older people adapted, but some
older people even complained that new media was too "busy" for them.

The sad thing, though, is that while middle-aged people remained
backwardly compatible with older media, the people who grew up on the
new media often never developed a tolerance for the pace of older media.
It was too slow for them. (It also sounds like you're an exception to
the rule due to your broad young viewing habits.)

And yes, the argument is more complicated than just pace, since there
are other stylistic elements that were brought over from music video to
film and television. There are other ways to make the moving image seem
"faster" than just the editing, including moving the camera more than in
the old days, and moving the people and the objects in the frame more
than in the old days. There was a heightened awareness of using not
just music in the soundtrack, but also using actual songs in movies that
weren't musicals, and editing the visuals around the songs. But if I
had to name the single factor in the broader influence of music videos
that was the most pronounced, I would point to the pace of the editing.
Directors who had gotten their start in music videos would sometimes go
on to direct movies and television. I recall you mentioning the
Transformer movies. For better or worse, Michael Bay got his start in
music videos.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

Maybe people might be vaguely familiar with the bit leading up to
"The Rain in Spain," because the "By George, I think she's got it!"
sequence has been repeated so often that people might know it without
realizing where it's from. But I doubt most Millennials know the
song. Of course, _Pygmalion_ was spoofed in an episode of
_Gilligan's Island_, but people under around 30 may not have seen
that either. (I'm not sure when TBS stopped running it.)

I think I remember that episode.

One of the dream sequence episodes, a mash-up of _Dr. Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde_, _Pygmalion_, and a little _Mary Poppins_. Maryann played the
stand-in for Eliza Doolittle, a poor Cockney flower girl whom Dr.
Gilligan had not done a stellar job of teaching.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Sometimes I think about the shows I grew up watching, many of which
were canceled long before I was born, that future generations will
never know even existed. When there are only a handful of channels,
you watch whatever is on, regardless of when it was originally
produced. Some of the best shows I ever saw I randomly stumbled upon.
But if they don't even air them any more, they are lost to history.

There's a lot of older material out there, but it's relegated to "old
folks' channels" like Antenna TV, Cozi, MeTV, or even older, Turner
Classic Movies. Not a lot of people under 40 are going to bother tuning
in any of those channels. There's just too much new stuff to bother
with seeking out old stuff that they're likely to consider boring.

-Micky

[Arthur Lipscomb]

snip

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I think much of the pop
culture image of MTV was propaganda put out by MTV and stereotypes put
out by adults. I'm not saying I never watched MTV, but Nickelodeon
was by far the larger influence on me at the time. Of course I'm
speaking from a "child" point of view, not a "teenager" point of view
in the 80s.

I'm using "MTV" as a shorthand for "the influence of the music video
style on other types and genres of film and video production." It
doesn't matter if you never watched the MTV channel itself at all, nor
even any music videos. The increasing pace of editing and the
condensation/eliding of plot that had been going on for decades before
the rise of the pop/rock/hip-hop music video suddenly accelerated in the
music video format, and from there spread to other forms of TV and
movies. Probably the most remarked upon TV show at the time (in terms
of people recognizing the influence of music videos on it) was _Miami
Vice_. The pace of the dramas that were trying to be at the forefront
got fast enough that by the time of _Max Headroom_, I'm convinced that
the producers were consciously making material that was so quickly
edited, they expected their viewers to tape the episodes, and
freeze-frame them to get all the details.
It didn't happen to everything in audiovisual media all at once, and not
everyone experienced it all at once (obviously, it would have been
foolish for _Murder, She Wrote_ and _Matlock_ to try to emulate the pace
of music videos), but the influence spread widely. It made permanent
changes in the pace of A/V art. Most older people adapted, but some
older people even complained that new media was too "busy" for them.
The sad thing, though, is that while middle-aged people remained
backwardly compatible with older media, the people who grew up on the
new media often never developed a tolerance for the pace of older media.
It was too slow for them. (It also sounds like you're an exception to
the rule due to your broad young viewing habits.)

I probably was a bit of an exception. As a kid I loved watching
PBS/educational programming and old black and white movies. Although I
have much less tolerance for black and white now than I did when I was a
kid.

Post by Micky DuPree
And yes, the argument is more complicated than just pace, since there
are other stylistic elements that were brought over from music video to
film and television. There are other ways to make the moving image seem
"faster" than just the editing, including moving the camera more than in
the old days, and moving the people and the objects in the frame more
than in the old days. There was a heightened awareness of using not
just music in the soundtrack, but also using actual songs in movies that
weren't musicals, and editing the visuals around the songs. But if I
had to name the single factor in the broader influence of music videos
that was the most pronounced, I would point to the pace of the editing.
Directors who had gotten their start in music videos would sometimes go
on to direct movies and television. I recall you mentioning the
Transformer movies. For better or worse, Michael Bay got his start in
music videos.

Funny you should say that. Just a few days ago I stumbled upon a music
video and immediately thought it looked like something Michael Bay would
do. Then I found out it was directed by Michael Bay. His look is
ridiculously distinctive. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

Maybe people might be vaguely familiar with the bit leading up to
"The Rain in Spain," because the "By George, I think she's got it!"
sequence has been repeated so often that people might know it without
realizing where it's from. But I doubt most Millennials know the
song. Of course, _Pygmalion_ was spoofed in an episode of
_Gilligan's Island_, but people under around 30 may not have seen
that either. (I'm not sure when TBS stopped running it.)

I think I remember that episode.

One of the dream sequence episodes, a mash-up of _Dr. Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde_, _Pygmalion_, and a little _Mary Poppins_. Maryann played the
stand-in for Eliza Doolittle, a poor Cockney flower girl whom Dr.
Gilligan had not done a stellar job of teaching.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Sometimes I think about the shows I grew up watching, many of which
were canceled long before I was born, that future generations will
never know even existed. When there are only a handful of channels,
you watch whatever is on, regardless of when it was originally
produced. Some of the best shows I ever saw I randomly stumbled upon.
But if they don't even air them any more, they are lost to history.

There's a lot of older material out there, but it's relegated to "old
folks' channels" like Antenna TV, Cozi, MeTV, or even older, Turner
Classic Movies. Not a lot of people under 40 are going to bother tuning
in any of those channels. There's just too much new stuff to bother
with seeking out old stuff that they're likely to consider boring.
-Micky

Does anyone remember when the American Movie Classics channel used to
air Classic American movies? ;-)

[Micky DuPree]

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Micky DuPree

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I think much of the pop
culture image of MTV was propaganda put out by MTV and stereotypes
put out by adults. I'm not saying I never watched MTV, but
Nickelodeon was by far the larger influence on me at the time. Of
course I'm speaking from a "child" point of view, not a "teenager"
point of view in the 80s.

I'm using "MTV" as a shorthand for "the influence of the music video
style on other types and genres of film and video production." It
doesn't matter if you never watched the MTV channel itself at all,
nor even any music videos. The increasing pace of editing and the
condensation/eliding of plot that had been going on for decades
before the rise of the pop/rock/hip-hop music video suddenly
accelerated in the music video format, and from there spread to other
forms of TV and movies. Probably the most remarked upon TV show at
the time (in terms of people recognizing the influence of music
videos on it) was _Miami Vice_. The pace of the dramas that were
trying to be at the forefront got fast enough that by the time of
_Max Headroom_, I'm convinced that the producers were consciously
making material that was so quickly edited, they expected their
viewers to tape the episodes, and>> freeze-frame them to get all the
details.
It didn't happen to everything in audiovisual media all at once, and
not everyone experienced it all at once (obviously, it would have
been foolish for _Murder, She Wrote_ and _Matlock_ to try to emulate
the pace of music videos), but the influence spread widely. It made
permanent changes in the pace of A/V art. Most older people adapted,
but some older people even complained that new media was too "busy"
for them.
The sad thing, though, is that while middle-aged people remained
backwardly compatible with older media, the people who grew up on the
new media often never developed a tolerance for the pace of older
media. It was too slow for them. (It also sounds like you're an
exception to the rule due to your broad young viewing habits.)

I probably was a bit of an exception. As a kid I loved watching
PBS/educational programming and old black and white movies.

It kept you open to older media.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb
Although I have much less tolerance for black and white now than I did
when I was a kid.

I'm fine with black and white if something's made in black and white.
If I had to watch color programs in black and white today as I sometimes
had to when I was a kid, I'd give up on it (though I can't say that that
has happened to me in many years). I've just started in on the B&W
series _Danger Man_ from the beginning, and find it reasonable fare for
its time.

I found that some series that had to switch from B&W to color weren't
improved by the change. _The Fugitive_ lost its film noir look (Quinn
Martin himself bemoaned that). _12 O'Clock High_ didn't have enough
color stock footage of WWII aerial battles to keep up with the switch,
and it was insanely expensive to hand-tint the B&W footage they had.

The one adjustment that I don't see baby boomers or the Silent
Generation making for older AV media is that they don't sit still for
silent movies very well, myself included. Apart from Keystone Kops
shorts, which actually play more like live-action cartoons, we weren't
raised on them. I've seen a lot of the better known silent features and
shorts at this point, and in my opinion, only some of the Buster Keaton
really holds up well by modern standards.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Micky DuPree
And yes, the argument is more complicated than just pace, since there
are other stylistic elements that were brought over from music video
to film and television. There are other ways to make the moving
image seem "faster" than just the editing, including moving the
camera more than in the old days, and moving the people and the
objects in the frame more than in the old days. There was a
heightened awareness of using not just music in the soundtrack, but
also using actual songs in movies that weren't musicals, and editing
the visuals around the songs. But if I had to name the single factor
in the broader influence of music videos that was the most
pronounced, I would point to the pace of the editing. Directors who
had gotten their start in music videos would sometimes go on to
direct movies and television. I recall you mentioning the
Transformer movies. For better or worse, Michael Bay got his start
in music videos.

Funny you should say that. Just a few days ago I stumbled upon a
music video and immediately thought it looked like something Michael
Bay would do. Then I found out it was directed by Michael Bay. His
look is ridiculously distinctive. I'm not sure if that's a good or
bad thing.

Probably depends on what it's in service of. I think it fits Meat
Loaf's "I'd Do Anything for Love" (which is a good example of a piece
with a heavy reliance on shots that last for one second or less.)
Sometimes it's a matter of matching the right director with the right
material. For example, there's a lot I don't care for in Bob Fosse's
work, but he was absolutely the right director for _Cabaret_.

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Micky DuPree
There's a lot of older material out there, but it's relegated to "old
folks' channels" like Antenna TV, Cozi, MeTV, or even older, Turner
Classic Movies. Not a lot of people under 40 are going to bother
tuning in any of those channels. There's just too much new stuff to
bother with seeking out old stuff that they're likely to consider
boring.

Does anyone remember when the American Movie Classics channel used to
air Classic American movies? ;-)

Oh yeah, uncut without commercials, although I think they've landed in a
better place sometimes showing superior original TV series, than Bravo
and A&E did ending up as lowbrow reality TV channels.

-Micky

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow
it down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but
it has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now
I'm thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on
popular or at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most
people would recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is
where knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern plays
ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived repeatedly,
and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

[suzeeq]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow
it down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but
it has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now
I'm thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on
popular or at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most
people would recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is
where knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern plays
ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived repeatedly,
and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

'Everyone has seen it' is way too broad. I've heard of it, but haven't
ever seen it, My Fair Lady either. I may have heard MFL, a friend of
mine in college was a musical fan and would listen to them on public
radio every week. I agree with Anim that for some of us, the songs were
played individually on the radio, or perform on TV and that's where we
heard them.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

21 Jul 2020 11:55:48 -0700 Arthur

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow
it down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but
it has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now
I'm thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on
popular or at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most
people would recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is
where knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern plays
ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived repeatedly,
and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

'Everyone has seen it' is way too broad. I've heard of it, but haven't
ever seen it, My Fair Lady either. I may have heard MFL, a friend of
mine in college was a musical fan and would listen to them on public
radio every week. I agree with Anim that for some of us, the songs were
played individually on the radio, or perform on TV and that's where we
heard them.

Pie's on me!

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Arthur Lipscomb

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Without knowing *when* the review was written, it's hard to narrow
it down. But I'll give this a shot. At first I thought musical, but
it has to be a "list of songs" most people would recognize, so now
I'm thinking it's not necessarily a musical but relies heavily on
popular or at least famous music. And it has to be a movie that most
people would recognize or be considered, "culturally illiterate."
My guess, "Pulp Fiction." Second choice, "Purple Rain." This is
where knowing *when* the review was written would be really helpful!
So what's the answer?

OMG
You are as wrong as Ian!
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-my-fair-lady-1964

the article in 1965, but that article was published in 2006. My Fair
Lady was released in 1964. There is *no* way Ebert can claim people in
2006 not familiar with that 42 year old movie are culturally illiterate!
I love musicals and I've seen the movie before, and even I could only
name *one* song from the movie. Yet Ebert is claiming that *most*
people in 2006 can would recognize a list of songs from it? I doubt
most people in 2006 have even seen the movie and since *none* of the
songs are popular enough to get radio play, I doubt they would be
familiar with the music either.

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern plays
ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived repeatedly,
and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

. . .

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)

Despite protestations, I believe you've been exposed to culture at one
point or another.

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

. . .

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)
Despite protestations, I believe you've been exposed to culture at one
point or another.

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .

We were forced to read the dreadful EDITH HAMILTON'S MYTHOLOGY which even
when I was a teenager seemed more about self aggrandizing her than anything
else. We were assigned certain pages to read*, and learned and retained
nothing. I got my myths from Marvel Comics and Italian sword and sandals
movies.

*Mrs. Fisher's English class, freshman year. Ah. Senile old piece of barn
wood. They tried to to get rid of her for years, but, teacher's union. They
finally found out she was lying about her age (she'd told the truth when she
started at the school decades before and the records didn't match); had a
falsified drivers' license and everything! Later she was the last hold out to
sell her condo to some land developers, so they murdered her and she was
found floating in the canal at Camelback and Scottsdale roads (the two
biggest drags in town). They got away with it, too.

She had this ancient index card box, with ancient index cards for each day of
class, like "read Edith Hamilton's Mythology pages 58-63" She'd copy it to
the blackboard, and we'd have to copy it to our assignment books, and she'd
check to make sure we had every fucking day written down or we'd get our
grades dinged.

She hadn't the slightest grasp of reality. I recall her lecture on plays,
where she told us that everybody in the cast had to have an equal number of
lines and words, because if they didn't, they just wouldn't show up. The
concept of spear carriers was completely unknown to her.

That was the year Olivia Hussey debuted in Romeo & Juliet. In past years
we'd have gone to the movie as a class assignment, but she nixed it because
Hussey's boobs were too big for a 14 year old (she was all of 16 when they
shot it).

We had tests like 'memorize Hamlet's soliloquy' and write (maybe the first
half of) it down, and we got X points per line, maxing out at 100. We learned
*nothing* whatsoever of the play or the text or what the fuck was going on,
just rote memorization and regurgitation.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

. . .

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had
to look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)
Despite protestations, I believe you've been exposed to culture at one
point or another.

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .

We were forced to read the dreadful EDITH HAMILTON'S MYTHOLOGY

Oh gawd we read that too. We also read Nathaniel Hawthorne's anthology
but he had re-written everything and we knew these weren't the myths
themselves.

There was also a decent anthology compiled by actual scholars but I
forget which one that was.

Post by anim8rfsk
which even when I was a teenager seemed more about self aggrandizing
her than anything else. We were assigned certain pages to read*, and
learned and retained nothing. I got my myths from Marvel Comics and
Italian sword and sandals movies.

Do you like... gladiator movies?

Post by anim8rfsk
*Mrs. Fisher's English class, freshman year. Ah. Senile old piece of barn
wood. They tried to to get rid of her for years, but, teacher's union. They
finally found out she was lying about her age (she'd told the truth when she
started at the school decades before and the records didn't match); had a
falsified drivers' license and everything! Later she was the last hold out to
sell her condo to some land developers, so they murdered her and she was
found floating in the canal at Camelback and Scottsdale roads (the two
biggest drags in town). They got away with it, too.

Those meddling teenagers hated her so much they didn't solve the crime?

Post by anim8rfsk
She had this ancient index card box, with ancient index cards for each day of
class, like "read Edith Hamilton's Mythology pages 58-63" She'd copy it to
the blackboard, and we'd have to copy it to our assignment books, and she'd
check to make sure we had every fucking day written down or we'd get our
grades dinged.

Ouch

The English teacher who teaches children to hate reading, sigh

Post by anim8rfsk
She hadn't the slightest grasp of reality. I recall her lecture on plays,
where she told us that everybody in the cast had to have an equal number of
lines and words, because if they didn't, they just wouldn't show up. The
concept of spear carriers was completely unknown to her.
That was the year Olivia Hussey debuted in Romeo & Juliet. In past years
we'd have gone to the movie as a class assignment, but she nixed it because
Hussey's boobs were too big for a 14 year old (she was all of 16 when they
shot it).

Um, I saw Franco Zeffirelli's most famous films, a few as a kid but mostly
in college thanks to revival movie theaters. I can't say I enjoyed them
as much as I was supposed to. It always seemed like he made major changes
to the stories he was adapting.

But I remember Olivia Hussey, and the pre-teen boy in me still thinks
dirty thought just because of her last name.

I just read that she was smitten with Christopher Jones at age 17, who
beat her and worse. You're not going to believe this, but according to
her, she broke things off with him after a year and half, moved from
London to Los Angeles into a house recently vacated by Sharon Tate
(because you know why), then Jones just showed up one night and raped
her. She was living in a horror film.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/olivia-hussey-recalls-controversial-romeo-and-juliet-role-at-16-reveals-personal-tragedies

Post by anim8rfsk
We had tests like 'memorize Hamlet's soliloquy' and write (maybe the first
half of) it down, and we got X points per line, maxing out at 100. We learned
*nothing* whatsoever of the play or the text or what the fuck was going on,
just rote memorization and regurgitation.

Barf

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

. . .

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had
to look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)
Despite protestations, I believe you've been exposed to culture at one
point or another.

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman
. . .

We were forced to read the dreadful EDITH HAMILTON'S MYTHOLOGY

Oh gawd we read that too. We also read Nathaniel Hawthorne's anthology
but he had re-written everything and we knew these weren't the myths
themselves.
There was also a decent anthology compiled by actual scholars but I
forget which one that was.

Hamilton was all we got

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
which even when I was a teenager seemed more about self aggrandizing
her than anything else. We were assigned certain pages to read*, and
learned and retained nothing. I got my myths from Marvel Comics and
Italian sword and sandals movies.

Do you like... gladiator movies?

hee hee

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
*Mrs. Fisher's English class, freshman year. Ah. Senile old piece of barn
wood. They tried to to get rid of her for years, but, teacher's union. They
finally found out she was lying about her age (she'd told the truth when she
started at the school decades before and the records didn't match); had a
falsified drivers' license and everything! Later she was the last hold out to
sell her condo to some land developers, so they murdered her and she was
found floating in the canal at Camelback and Scottsdale roads (the two
biggest drags in town). They got away with it, too.

Those meddling teenagers hated her so much they didn't solve the crime?

I think it was assumed said land developers paid off the authorities.

That said, the sum total of evidence was that she was found floating. There
was plenty of motive, but nothing to say she didn't just fall in.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
She had this ancient index card box, with ancient index cards for each day of
class, like "read Edith Hamilton's Mythology pages 58-63" She'd copy it to
the blackboard, and we'd have to copy it to our assignment books, and she'd
check to make sure we had every fucking day written down or we'd get our
grades dinged.

Ouch
The English teacher who teaches children to hate reading, sigh

How do they not understand that 'here's a great book, write a report on it'
only serves to make you dislike the book?

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
She hadn't the slightest grasp of reality. I recall her lecture on plays,
where she told us that everybody in the cast had to have an equal number of
lines and words, because if they didn't, they just wouldn't show up. The
concept of spear carriers was completely unknown to her.
That was the year Olivia Hussey debuted in Romeo & Juliet. In past years
we'd have gone to the movie as a class assignment, but she nixed it because
Hussey's boobs were too big for a 14 year old (she was all of 16 when they
shot it).

Um, I saw Franco Zeffirelli's most famous films, a few as a kid but mostly
in college thanks to revival movie theaters. I can't say I enjoyed them
as much as I was supposed to. It always seemed like he made major changes
to the stories he was adapting.
But I remember Olivia Hussey, and the pre-teen boy in me still thinks
dirty thought just because of her last name.

heh

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I just read that she was smitten with Christopher Jones at age 17, who
beat her and worse. You're not going to believe this, but according to
her, she broke things off with him after a year and half, moved from
London to Los Angeles into a house recently vacated by Sharon Tate
(because you know why), then Jones just showed up one night and raped
her. She was living in a horror film.

That's horrible. I never knew any of that. I mostly remember her from LOST
HORIZON.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/olivia-hussey-recalls-controversial-rome
o-and-juliet-role-at-16-reveals-personal-tragedies

Post by anim8rfsk
We had tests like 'memorize Hamlet's soliloquy' and write (maybe the first
half of) it down, and we got X points per line, maxing out at 100. We learned
*nothing* whatsoever of the play or the text or what the fuck was going on,
just rote memorization and regurgitation.

Barf

Yep. Given that it was 1968, they'd have done better having us watch "The
Conscience of the King" on STAR TREK.

[suzeeq]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

. . .

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been individually
performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different venues like variety
shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been exposed to one
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Despite protestations, I believe you've been exposed to culture at one
point or another.

Some of us may not have had the same education or exposure you did.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

. . .

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been exposed to one
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Despite protestations, I believe you've been exposed to culture at one
point or another.

Some of us may not have had the same education or exposure you did.

Some of us barely survived high school with our wits intact. I've said
before that my high school was just like Buffy's, without the ancient
hellmouth. We just had some crappy English teachers instead.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

. . .

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to
look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been exposed to one
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Despite protestations, I believe you've been exposed to culture at one
point or another.

Some of us may not have had the same education or exposure you did.

Some of us barely survived high school with our wits intact. I've said
before that my high school was just like Buffy's, without the ancient
hellmouth. We just had some crappy English teachers instead.

Aren't they all?

In college my English teacher had something like 147 hours of poetry studies.

I mean, I liked her, but WTF?

[suzeeq]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been exposed to one
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Actually, I was thinking you meant in the original Greek when I first
read that.

Yeah, I think we did read a couplathree of them in the advanced studies
senior year, but Pygmalion wasn't one of them.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had
to look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been exposed to one
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Actually, I was thinking you meant in the original Greek when I first
read that.

What, you think I went to boarding school? Just public school. I think
they offered Latin, no classical Greek.

Post by suzeeq
Yeah, I think we did read a couplathree of them in the advanced studies
senior year, but Pygmalion wasn't one of them.

I always thought it was a lot like the story of, er, Lot. Sort of the
reverse, I suppose.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had
to look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular
modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been exposed to one
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Actually, I was thinking you meant in the original Greek when I first
read that.

What, you think I went to boarding school? Just public school. I think
they offered Latin, no classical Greek.

Post by suzeeq
Yeah, I think we did read a couplathree of them in the advanced studies
senior year, but Pygmalion wasn't one of them.

I always thought it was a lot like the story of, er, Lot. Sort of the
reverse, I suppose.

We didn't learn that in school, either. Nor should we have.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:57:53 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:45:46 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory

but I had

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
to look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is

it's Shaw's

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times

in different

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular
modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware

of it as the

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read

the story of

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been exposed to one
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Actually, I was thinking you meant in the original Greek when I first
read that.

What, you think I went to boarding school? Just public school. I think
they offered Latin, no classical Greek.

Post by suzeeq
Yeah, I think we did read a couplathree of them in the advanced studies
senior year, but Pygmalion wasn't one of them.

I always thought it was a lot like the story of, er, Lot. Sort of the
reverse, I suppose.

We didn't learn that in school, either. Nor should we have.

You didn't see the movie?

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:57:53 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:45:46 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory

but I had

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
to look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is

it's Shaw's

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times

in different

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular
modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware

of it as the

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read

the story of

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been exposed to one
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Actually, I was thinking you meant in the original Greek when I first
read that.

What, you think I went to boarding school? Just public school. I think
they offered Latin, no classical Greek.

Post by suzeeq
Yeah, I think we did read a couplathree of them in the advanced studies
senior year, but Pygmalion wasn't one of them.

I always thought it was a lot like the story of, er, Lot. Sort of the
reverse, I suppose.

We didn't learn that in school, either. Nor should we have.

You didn't see the movie?

The one with Angelina Jolie?

Or Wholly Moses?

Or Sodom and Gomorrah?

Actually I haven't seen any of them ...

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:57:53 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:45:46 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory

but I had

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
to look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is

it's Shaw's

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs

have been

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times

in different

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the

most popular

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's

been revived

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form

or another?

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware

of it as the

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read

the story of

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it

off from the

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been

exposed to one

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Actually, I was thinking you meant in the original Greek when I first
read that.

What, you think I went to boarding school? Just public school. I think
they offered Latin, no classical Greek.

Post by suzeeq
Yeah, I think we did read a couplathree of them in the advanced studies
senior year, but Pygmalion wasn't one of them.

I always thought it was a lot like the story of, er, Lot. Sort of the
reverse, I suppose.

We didn't learn that in school, either. Nor should we have.

You didn't see the movie?

The one with Angelina Jolie?
Or Wholly Moses?
Or Sodom and Gomorrah?
Actually I haven't seen any of them ...

I'm spacing out on the movie I was thinking of. The pillar of salt that
Lot's wife became is discovered in an archeological dig... That's all I
can remember.

So I googed "movies with Lot's wife" and came up with
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls073283271/

I must have the Rule 34 tick box checked again.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:57:53 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:45:46 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory

but I had

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
to look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is

it's Shaw's

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs

have been

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times

in different

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the

most popular

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's

been revived

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form

or another?

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware

of it as the

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read

the story of

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it

off from the

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been

exposed to one

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Actually, I was thinking you meant in the original Greek when I first
read that.

What, you think I went to boarding school? Just public school. I think
they offered Latin, no classical Greek.

Post by suzeeq
Yeah, I think we did read a couplathree of them in the advanced studies
senior year, but Pygmalion wasn't one of them.

I always thought it was a lot like the story of, er, Lot. Sort of the
reverse, I suppose.

We didn't learn that in school, either. Nor should we have.

You didn't see the movie?

The one with Angelina Jolie?
Or Wholly Moses?
Or Sodom and Gomorrah?
Actually I haven't seen any of them ...

I'm spacing out on the movie I was thinking of. The pillar of salt that
Lot's wife became is discovered in an archeological dig... That's all I
can remember.
So I googed "movies with Lot's wife" and came up with
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls073283271/
I must have the Rule 34 tick box checked again.

Oh, I assumed you were talking something classic. Yeah, I found a couple in
the last 10 years or so ...

Like this bizarre entry you can see on Disney+
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2155335/reference

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:57:53 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:45:46 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all

the songs.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory

but I had

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
to look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is

it's Shaw's

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs

have been

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times

in different

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the

most popular

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's

been revived

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form

or another?

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware

of it as the

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read

the story of

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it

off from the

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been

exposed to one

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Actually, I was thinking you meant in the original Greek

when I first

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq
read that.

What, you think I went to boarding school? Just public school. I think
they offered Latin, no classical Greek.

Post by suzeeq
Yeah, I think we did read a couplathree of them in the

advanced studies

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq
senior year, but Pygmalion wasn't one of them.

I always thought it was a lot like the story of, er, Lot. Sort of the
reverse, I suppose.

We didn't learn that in school, either. Nor should we have.

You didn't see the movie?

The one with Angelina Jolie?
Or Wholly Moses?
Or Sodom and Gomorrah?
Actually I haven't seen any of them ...

I'm spacing out on the movie I was thinking of. The pillar of salt that
Lot's wife became is discovered in an archeological dig... That's all I
can remember.
So I googed "movies with Lot's wife" and came up with
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls073283271/
I must have the Rule 34 tick box checked again.

Oh, I assumed you were talking something classic.

Well, Sodom and Gomorrah of course but you thought of that already. I try
to avoid Angelina Jolie movies.

Yeah, I found a couple in

Post by anim8rfsk
the last 10 years or so ...
Like this bizarre entry you can see on Disney+
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2155335/reference

It's a short that's one minute long?

[anim8rfsk]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:57:53 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:45:46 -0700 Adam H.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk
I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all

the songs.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by anim8rfsk

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory

but I had

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
to look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is

it's Shaw's

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs

have been

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times

in different

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the

most popular

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's

been revived

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form

or another?

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware

of it as the

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq

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source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read

the story of

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Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it

off from the

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Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been

exposed to one

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or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Actually, I was thinking you meant in the original Greek

when I first

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read that.

What, you think I went to boarding school? Just public school. I think
they offered Latin, no classical Greek.

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Yeah, I think we did read a couplathree of them in the

advanced studies

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senior year, but Pygmalion wasn't one of them.

I always thought it was a lot like the story of, er, Lot. Sort of the
reverse, I suppose.

We didn't learn that in school, either. Nor should we have.

You didn't see the movie?

The one with Angelina Jolie?
Or Wholly Moses?
Or Sodom and Gomorrah?
Actually I haven't seen any of them ...

I'm spacing out on the movie I was thinking of. The pillar of salt that
Lot's wife became is discovered in an archeological dig... That's all I
can remember.
So I googed "movies with Lot's wife" and came up with
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls073283271/
I must have the Rule 34 tick box checked again.

Oh, I assumed you were talking something classic.

Well, Sodom and Gomorrah of course but you thought of that already. I try
to avoid Angelina Jolie movies.
Yeah, I found a couple in

Post by anim8rfsk
the last 10 years or so ...
Like this bizarre entry you can see on Disney+
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2155335/reference

It's a short that's one minute long?

Apparently, and can be seen on Disney+

[suzeeq]

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I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had
to look up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's
dialogue set to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been exposed to one
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Actually, I was thinking you meant in the original Greek when I first
read that.

What, you think I went to boarding school? Just public school. I think
they offered Latin, no classical Greek.

Don't they teach greek in day schools anymore?

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by suzeeq
Yeah, I think we did read a couplathree of them in the advanced studies
senior year, but Pygmalion wasn't one of them.

I always thought it was a lot like the story of, er, Lot. Sort of the
reverse, I suppose.

Maybe. Could be that's where the Old Testament got the story idea.

[Arthur Lipscomb]

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. . .

I've never seen the movie, and I'd know all the songs.

I can't pass you off as a film critic at Cannes!
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.

Oh I don't think so. It's familiar because the songs have been
individually performed dozens if not hundreds of times in different
venues like variety shows.

You don't think it's because Pygmalion is one of the most popular modern
plays ever written more than a century ago, that it's been revived
repeatedly, and that everybody has seen it in one form or another?

I never have. Never seen it, never read it. I'm only aware of it as the
source material for My Fair Lady.

When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story of
Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from the
Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been exposed to one
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Uh, every high school student since the ancient Phonecians?

Not my high school! I recall some basic Greek myths being covered in
middle school. I actually took a college course that covered ancient
Greek civilization. It was by far one of my favorite courses, but I
can't say I still remember much of it.

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Despite protestations, I believe you've been exposed to culture at one
point or another.

Some of us may not have had the same education or exposure you did.

Some of us barely survived high school with our wits intact. I've said
before that my high school was just like Buffy's, without the ancient
hellmouth. We just had some crappy English teachers instead.

You're high school didn't have a hellmouth? Lucky you! I'm pretty sure
my high school had one. That would explain a lot.

[Micky DuPree]

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
When you studied Greek myths in high school, you never read the story
of Pygmalion and Galatea? (Technically, the Greeks ripped it off from
the Phonecians.)

Who studied Greek myths in high school. I may have been exposed to one
or three, but Pygmalion and Galatea wasn't one of them.

Not I.

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Despite protestations, I believe you've been exposed to culture at
one point or another.

Some of us may not have had the same education or exposure you did.

I went to a better than average high school and a better than average
college. I had seen both the movie _My Fair Lady_ and the movie
_Pygmalion_ on TV before I went to college. The Shaw play we studied in
high school was _Man and Superman_. The Shaw play we studied in college
was _Candida_ (not recommended). I did not know the name of Pygmalion's
statue until the first year after I graduated from college and decided
to read all the Shaw in the Boston Public Library (not a weekend
undertaking). Shaw mentions it in, I believe, the afterword to
_Pygmalion_.

I knew the basic Greek and Roman pantheons growing up (and a bit of the
Norse), but I don't think I was ever taught them in school. I think
that I just got curious and looked up the Olympians in an encyclopedia
at some point. As far as legends go, I was exposed to Icarus and
Daedalus, Orpheus and Eurydice, and possibly Narcissus and Echo.
Never Pygmalion and Galatea. I learned of them through the Shaw play.

-Micky

[The Horny Goat]

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 15:42:24 +0000 (UTC),

Post by Micky DuPree
I went to a better than average high school and a better than average
college. I had seen both the movie _My Fair Lady_ and the movie
_Pygmalion_ on TV before I went to college. The Shaw play we studied in
high school was _Man and Superman_. The Shaw play we studied in college
was _Candida_ (not recommended). I did not know the name of Pygmalion's
statue until the first year after I graduated from college and decided
to read all the Shaw in the Boston Public Library (not a weekend
undertaking). Shaw mentions it in, I believe, the afterword to
_Pygmalion_.

Shaw made no pretense that he had lifted the story of Pygmalion and
essentially did a modernization with the theme that one could create
an upper class English woman from the gutter by reforming her accent.

(This is grade 10 English in a Canadian high school nearly 50 years
ago).

Since I finished first in a grad class in the 500-600 range I
naturally feel it was a "better than average high school" :)

[Micky DuPree]

Post by The Horny Goat
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 15:42:24 +0000 (UTC),

Post by Micky DuPree
I went to a better than average high school and a better than average
college. I had seen both the movie _My Fair Lady_ and the movie
_Pygmalion_ on TV before I went to college. The Shaw play we studied
in high school was _Man and Superman_. The Shaw play we studied in
college was _Candida_ (not recommended). I did not know the name of
Pygmalion's statue until the first year after I graduated from
college and decided to read all the Shaw in the Boston Public Library
(not a weekend undertaking). Shaw mentions it in, I believe, the
afterword to _Pygmalion_.

Shaw made no pretense that he had lifted the story of Pygmalion and
essentially did a modernization with the theme that one could create
an upper class English woman from the gutter by reforming her accent.
(This is grade 10 English in a Canadian high school nearly 50 years
ago).
Since I finished first in a grad class in the 500-600 range I
naturally feel it was a "better than average high school" :)

None of that was the unclear part. The part that had never once been
mentioned during all my formal schooling (nor in _My Fair Lady_ nor in
_Pygmalion_) was the name of the statue that Pygmalion carved. I got
that from finally reading Shaw the year after I got out of college. He
drops it in a line musing something to the effect that Galatea could
never be comfortable with her relationship with Pygmalion.

There's a long afterword in the published play. Shaw, of course, did
not end his play the way either of the movies did: with the implied
romantic entanglement of Henry Higgins and Eliza Doolittle. Many had
clamored for this, for that is the demand of conventional comedy, but he
explained it did not make sense. They were not right for each other.
Higgins was not the marrying kind, whereas Eliza was. He said that
Eliza would go on to do what she had threatened to do, which was marry
Freddy. Higgins and Pickering set them up with a flower shop, which was
shaky, but they took night classes in accounting and so forth, and
evenutally made a go of it.

I forget if there was an after-afterword or if I read it elsewhere, but
Shaw also explained why the ending of the movie adaptation of
_Pygmalion_ didn't bother him much, even though it wasn't the same as
the play's. He said that Henry and Eliza were still all wrong for each
other, and if they did manage to get married, they would also manage to
get divorced (or something like that; it's been a very long time).

Anyway, the derivation of the name 'Pygmalion' had been explained to me
at some point: sculptor in ancient Greek legend whose sculpture comes to
life. But I learned the name 'Galatea' from reading Shaw on my own. I
did not learn the Greek legend in school.

-Micky

[suzeeq]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

I know about half of them but only because I grew up in the 60s and my
parents liked to watch musical variety shows. Where other people
performed them, not because they were performed in the context of My
Fair Lady though they were credited as being from it.

[anim8rfsk]

Post by suzeeq

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Here are the Lerner and Loewe songs mostly from memory but I had to look
up a few. The reason the songs are familiar is it's Shaw's dialogue set
to music.
Act 1
Why Can't the English?
Wouldn't It be Loverly?
An Ordinary Man
With a Little Bit of Luck
Just You Woight
Chorus of the servants
The Rain In Spain
I Could Have Danced All Night
At the Ascot
On the Street Where You Live
the waltz at the Embassy ball
Act 2
You Did It
Show Me
At Covent Garden
Get Me To the Church On Time!
Why Can't A Woman Be More Like a Man?
I Can Do Very Well Without You
I've Grown Accustomed to her Face

I know about half of them but only because I grew up in the 60s and my
parents liked to watch musical variety shows. Where other people
performed them, not because they were performed in the context of My
Fair Lady though they were credited as being from it.

That right there

[super70s]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
I miss Roger Ebert. He was a fantastic writer.
It is unnecessary to summarize the plot or list the songs; if
you are not familiar with both, you are culturally illiterate,
although in six months I could pass you off as a critic at
Cannes, or even a clerk in a good video store, which requires
better taste.

Um, how about Saturday Night Fever? (If that's wrong it still works).

Luckily just about every movie page on Wikipedia (and they have an
exhaustive archive) will feature a reaction from Ebert if there's one
to be had. If not written even from taped interviews and shows.