Vegetarian in the Philippines

Post by ZLorca
This February I am visiting my girlfriend's family in Nueva Vizcaya.
However, I am a vegetarian who will eat dairy and eggs but not fish, fish
sauce, meat, etc. primarily for ethical reasons. I'm psyched because I will
get to eat great fruit and I love greens, but I worry about people not
understanding that I don't eat meat, food cooked with patis, etc. and
offending them when I decline food or can't eat.
What do you think is the most polite way to decline or explain that I don't
eat meat? The last thing I want to do is seem unappreciative or to give
offense.

I never heard of vegetarians not eating food with fish sauce (patis)
before.

Whenever you visit friends' and relatives' homes, it'll be a challenge
avoiding food without even a trace of meat, pork fat, fish sauce. Most
sauteed food probably would use pork fat or lard in it. They'll also
have shrimp paste, fish paste, anchovies, crab meat, crab fat, clam
sauce, or oyster sauce in many delicacies. It'll be hard to politely
turn down the feast they would provide. Even vegetable dishes unless
simply steamed, will have meat products in them.

When you see groups of men drinking liquor, you'll surely come upon
"pulutan" made from meats and spices. It'll be hard to politely turn
down an offer of a drink and a bite, share some jokes and stories, get
to know each other.

Good luck on your trip.

Boracay Bill

2005-01-06 23:11:02 UTC

Post by Mo Silidonio
When you see groups of men drinking liquor, you'll surely come upon
"pulutan" made from meats and spices. It'll be hard to politely turn
down an offer of a drink and a bite, share some jokes and stories, get
to know each other.

And declining an invitation to join an in-progress drinking party can
be perceived as a serious insult. Offering a serious insult to a group
of well-lubricated Filipinos can be hazardous to your health.

Paul Kekai Manansala

2005-01-07 01:09:32 UTC

Post by Boracay Bill

get

Post by Mo Silidonio
to know each other.

Just tell them you don't drink. If they cause trouble move away
swiftly, they won't be able to catch you. Or move away (no need to run)
in a swerving pattern and enjoy watching them come after you.

If you're going to eating in people's homes it might be good if someone
could inform them well before-hand with explanations.

Also vegetarianism is not that unusual in some parts of the Philippines
like the Ilocos.

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
http://sambali.blogspot.com/

Mo Silidonio

2005-01-07 03:03:06 UTC

Post by Boracay Bill

get

Post by Mo Silidonio
to know each other.

How many times have we seen the headlines such as: "Drinking Spree
Massacre", "Man Killed by Drinking Buddies", "Man Eaten by Drinking Buddies
in Wedding:"

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-07 04:52:14 UTC

Post by Boracay Bill

get

Post by Mo Silidonio
to know each other.

Real hazardous.

DSP

2005-01-08 04:25:18 UTC

Alcohol, being from vegetation, should not present a problem to a
zealot vegan. Unless it's tapoy with, ah, fauna byproducts.
Yukyuk Pig

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 20:53:20 UTC

Post by DSP
Alcohol, being from vegetation, should not present a problem to a
zealot vegan. Unless it's tapoy with, ah, fauna byproducts.
Yukyuk Pig

What´s that? Something like Mezcal with a drunken maggot?

Popocatepetl Piggy

Just JT

2005-01-06 23:36:59 UTC

----------------
In two words, YOU'RE SCREWED. Vegetarianism is FOREIGN to most RURAL FOLK.
They'd think you're some kind of lunatic. It won't help your cause winning
your girlfriend's family.

How about eating bugs? Do you also avoid them for ethical reasons? If so,
what ethical reasons are these?

--
DalubBetterToBeTruthfulAndHonest

H. David Pembrook

2005-01-07 01:07:13 UTC

Post by Just JT
In two words, YOU'RE SCREWED. Vegetarianism is FOREIGN to most RURAL FOLK.
They'd think you're some kind of lunatic. It won't help your cause winning
your girlfriend's family.

You're right. I have a very good friend who made his Pinay girlfriend swear to
become, and stay, a vegetarian in return for him marrying her. (No, I don't
know if she ate his "meat" so to speak or if he returned the favor.) Everybody
in her family, and I do mean everybody, thought he was insane. They thought
she was even more insane when she agreed. They were only married a couple of
years when she gave it up and secretly started eating fish and meat at the
homes of other Pinays, including my house.

I'd be damn careful about eating uncooked greens too.

ZLorca, just a suggestion, to keep 'em from thinking your are nuts just say
you've given up fish and meat for lent. That they will understand, even if
lent doesn't start until March.

Pass the baby back ribs pig

~~~~~
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
When in America, agitate and demonstrate
till Americans stop doing what they do and
do things your way.

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-07 01:44:59 UTC

Post by Just JT
In two words, YOU'RE SCREWED. Vegetarianism is FOREIGN to most RURAL FOLK.
They'd think you're some kind of lunatic. It won't help your cause winning
your girlfriend's family.

You're right. I have a very good friend who made his Pinay girlfriend swear to
become, and stay, a vegetarian in return for him marrying her.

Wow, that´s an almost inhuman demand. Try to impose vegetarism on cats! LOL!
He must have been a veggie zealot. :-))

(No, I don't

Post by H. David Pembrook
know if she ate his "meat" so to speak or if he returned the favor.)

Everybody

Post by H. David Pembrook
in her family, and I do mean everybody, thought he was insane. They thought
she was even more insane when she agreed. They were only married a couple of
years when she gave it up and secretly started eating fish and meat at the
homes of other Pinays, including my house.

How did the story end? Are they still married?

Carnal Piggy

H. David Pembrook

2005-01-07 02:32:11 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
Wow, that´s an almost inhuman demand. Try to impose vegetarism on cats! LOL!
He must have been a veggie zealot. :-))

Yes, he was a zealot. Did you ever see a soy turkey for Thanksgiving?

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
How did the story end? Are they still married?

Yes, it's been a couple years since I talked to him, but they were still
married (since 1988) and had three kids.
~~~~~
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
When in America, agitate and demonstrate
till Americans stop doing what they do and
do things your way.

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 21:41:12 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
Wow, that´s an almost inhuman demand. Try to impose vegetarism on cats! LOL!
He must have been a veggie zealot. :-))

Yes, he was a zealot. Did you ever see a soy turkey for Thanksgiving?

That´s obscene. Tell me that you are just kidding! :-))

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
How did the story end? Are they still married?

Yes, it's been a couple years since I talked to him, but they were still
married (since 1988) and had three kids.

Amazing. It proves that Pinays can adapt to the strangest things.

Astonished Piggy

Arptro

2005-01-07 04:00:53 UTC

Post by H. David Pembrook
You're right. I have a very good friend who made his Pinay girlfriend swear to
become, and stay, a vegetarian in return for him marrying her.

Marriage shouldn't be in return. It's shameful for him to blackmail her and
a shame she relented.

Post by H. David Pembrook
I'd be damn careful about eating uncooked greens too.
ZLorca, just a suggestion, to keep 'em from thinking your are nuts just say
you've given up fish and meat for lent. That they will understand, even if
lent doesn't start until March.
Pass the baby back ribs pig

Good idea. I might have my girlfriend tell them I am Christian Quaker and we
don't eat meat. It's a great religious group, but I'm not Quaker, it is just
convenient. Her town is religious and I figure because they are religious
they'll be able to respect that other people are religious and have beliefs,
too. I'm not out to convert anyone and I don't expect people from secluded
areas to understand things which are greatly different from themselves. I'm
a stable, kind, ethical person who people like alot so I hope this shows
through and outweighs other concerns.

pong

2005-01-10 19:32:54 UTC

You might tell them you're a Seventh Day Adventist (called "Sabatista") -
many people know about Sabatistas especially in the Manila area. They used
to (and maybe still do) have a hospital or hospice in the Pasay-Baclaran
area someplace. It used to be the only place you could get vege-meat type
products, like vege-hot dogs and vege-burgers, etc. We used to make special
trips there just to buy that stuff.

Of course you can always say you're Budhist, or a Hindu which many people
also understand, especially if you wear orange robes and just chant "hare
krishna" whenever someone offers you some meat or fish. :D Seriously
though, my son is vegetarian, though not strict - he will eat fish
occasionally, spent a month with ex-wife's family last year, and had no
problem. One advantage is if you tell the airline you're vegetarian a few
days before your flight, you get your meal served ahead of everyone else! ;)
The downside is that raw veggies are often loaded with pesticides and
herbicides, so wash them well. My mom would soak our Baguio lettuce
overnight before serving.

Even cooked vegetable dishes will probably contain some pork or shrimp
because they typically sautte with pieces of pork and/ or shrimp, so unless
you do your own cooking you really have to do some searching. The ubiquitous
Pinakbet will be served with bagoong or alamang (I can never remember which)
unless you specify beforehand to "Paki wag lagyan ng bagoong po". I don't
eat bagoong either, but I like patis, so my share of pinakbet must be
separated out before the bagoong is put in, and I just add my own patis
after. I'll also eat the vegetabes out of the kare-kare with patis.

On the other hand if you shop around you can find a few "organic vegetables"
stores - the ones I know of are in Makati (Legaspi St near de la Rosa in the
Greenbelt area, right next to Max's parking lot) and in Tagaytay. There is
a growing organic vegetable industry in Cebu and Tagaytay and other places;
using the hydroponics technology, they are able to grow Baguio type lettuce,
green beans and tomatoes which are then sold to the hotels and high-end
restaurants. When I was there I noticed at least one vegetarian restaurant
in Greenbelt, and I'm sure there are many Indian eating places that will be
happy to indulge your vegetarian tastes.

In my case I don't eat shrimps, crabs, lobsters, shellfish, crustaceans in
general, so I tell people I'm a "Shrimpologist", kinda like a Scientologist,
but we believe that humans are decended from giant shrimps who came from a
distant planet millions of years ago- and so shrimps are our distant
cousins.

Post by H. David Pembrook
You're right. I have a very good friend who made his Pinay girlfriend swear to
become, and stay, a vegetarian in return for him marrying her.

Marriage shouldn't be in return. It's shameful for him to blackmail her and
a shame she relented.

DSP

2005-01-11 16:13:05 UTC

Why does he have to lie? Do you have a decent suggestion? Sheesh!
DSP

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-12 00:54:35 UTC

Post by DSP
Why does he have to lie? Do you have a decent suggestion? Sheesh!

Exactly my thought! All those well-meaning suggestions like alleged lents,
sects, vows, health problems etc are LIES. If it´s nothing wrong, why not
tell it like it is?

Cheap Excuse Piggy

pong

2005-01-12 01:41:43 UTC

nope, no decent suggestion - indecent, plenty. Sheesheng!
hehe

Post by DSP
Why does he have to lie? Do you have a decent suggestion? Sheesh!
DSP

Mark A Framness

2005-01-07 18:20:28 UTC

Post by Just JT
In two words, YOU'RE SCREWED. Vegetarianism is FOREIGN to most RURAL FOLK.
They'd think you're some kind of lunatic. It won't help your cause winning
your girlfriend's family.

I can see that happening. My wife is a very dedicated fish eater. She even
talks about sitting up a little camp stove outside (in freezing weather) so
she can cook her tuyo w/o smelling up the hosue (I could care less, she
likes to eat it so I put up with the smell w/o complaint). The only outdoor
winter activity she goes for is......ice fishing.

Post by H. David Pembrook
I'd be damn careful about eating uncooked greens too.

Yeap! In fact I remember in my travels through the Philippines and Africa
the advice was freshly cooked meats and fruits with thick rinds (which you
peel and discard) were the safest.

--
E-mail decoding instructions. Your keyboard is the key. Shift the letter on
the keyboard one position to the right for the plain-text. If the letter is
a w,s, or x then shift one position to the left for the plain text. For
example: "srg" (the first three letters of the host) is "ath" in plain
text.

ZLorca

2005-01-07 02:05:18 UTC

Post by Just JT
How about eating bugs? Do you also avoid them for ethical reasons? If so,
what ethical reasons are these?

No bugs. I try to do as little damage to living things as possible but I am
far from perfect. I'll kill a fly, etc. I also volunteer often at social
service locations so don't give me the "you care more about animals than
people bit".

Just JT

2005-01-07 03:24:38 UTC

Post by Just JT
How about eating bugs? Do you also avoid them for ethical reasons? If so,
what ethical reasons are these?

No bugs. I try to do as little damage to living things as possible but I am
far from perfect.

----------------
But plants are living things, too. If you think about it, everything we eat
was alive until we eat it. Something has to die in order for another to
live, don't you agree?

--
DalubWhatDoYouCallSomeoneWhoEatsNothingButRocks?

Arptro

2005-01-07 03:53:13 UTC

Post by Just JT
----------------
But plants are living things, too. If you think about it, everything we
eat was alive until we eat it. Something has to die in order for another
to live, don't you agree?
--
DalubWhatDoYouCallSomeoneWhoEatsNothingButRocks?

Plants are about as low as you can go. They aren't social, feel practically
no pain if you can even qualify it as such. Now don't be assanine. It's as
low as I can go and you can't equate a plant with a pig.

Hit a vegetarian discussion group for more.

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-07 04:57:01 UTC

Not true, some gourp of scientists wired some plants and recorded their
anguish everytime twigs are broken... But they feel relieved when its
fruits are taken.

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 21:14:29 UTC

Not true, some gourp of scientists wired some plants and recorded their
anguish everytime twigs are broken... But they feel relieved when its
fruits are taken.

I think the crucial point for vegetarians is how closely related some living
being is. Thus there is a descending chain of relationship: humans,
primates, other mammals, warm blooded animals (like birds), reptiles,
vertebrates (like fish), crustacea (like crabs), insects, plants,
mushrooms - these are about our most distant relatives. Of course, it is an
anthropocentric view to consider a plant "low". One oak tree would consider
another oak tree HIGHER than a pig, who knows? :-)

Flora And Fauna Piggy

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-09 05:01:33 UTC

Plants are about as low as you can go. They aren't social, feel

practically

Post by Arptro
no pain if you can even qualify it as such. Now don't be assanine. It's

Post by Arptro
low as I can go and you can't equate a plant with a pig.

Not true, some gourp of scientists wired some plants and recorded their
anguish everytime twigs are broken... But they feel relieved when its
fruits are taken.

When I heard about fruits being the only part of a plant that is
supposed to be taken and eaten, I tried to eat nothing but fruits, talk
about being purist. Very expensive and impractical. Too much sugar.

pong

2005-01-11 00:22:46 UTC

In a way, grains are also "fruit" of their plants, but you have to kill the
whole plant to harvest them, unless someone can figure out a way to get the
palay from the rice stalk without cutting and threshing.

Some vegetables are also "fruits" or "flowers" - take the eggplant, for
instance - the vine keeps producing fruit until eventually it dies.
Other vegetables are actually the root of the plant - so you can't help but
"kill" the plant to get at them.
Others yet are the heart of the plant - you have to kill a whole coconut
tree to get the ubod.
Where do you draw the line?

My thought is that vegetables are designed to be eaten, and so they are
fulfilling their destiny and are happy to go to that great big party in the
Big Intestine.

But What Would We Do Without Ube

Plants are about as low as you can go. They aren't social, feel

practically

Post by Arptro
no pain if you can even qualify it as such. Now don't be assanine. It's

Post by Arptro
low as I can go and you can't equate a plant with a pig.

Not true, some gourp of scientists wired some plants and recorded their
anguish everytime twigs are broken... But they feel relieved when its
fruits are taken.

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-11 20:59:32 UTC

Post by pong
In a way, grains are also "fruit" of their plants, but you have to kill the
whole plant to harvest them, unless someone can figure out a way to get the
palay from the rice stalk without cutting and threshing.

Of course you are right, this where the whole issue I am trying to point
out, some living thing has to die in order for this(me) living thing to
live. And no one wants to die before its time.

Post by pong
Some vegetables are also "fruits" or "flowers" - take the eggplant, for
instance - the vine keeps producing fruit until eventually it dies.
Other vegetables are actually the root of the plant - so you can't help but
"kill" the plant to get at them.
Others yet are the heart of the plant - you have to kill a whole coconut
tree to get the ubod.
Where do you draw the line?
My thought is that vegetables are designed to be eaten, and so they are
fulfilling their destiny and are happy to go to that great big party in the
Big Intestine.
But What Would We Do Without Ube

Some plants are annual, they will die after the year's out, eggplants
for one is like that, most of your vegetables like spinach for one lives
only for a few months, if you don't harvest them, they would die on
their own. Kill them before their time so to speak, if you don't, the
leaves and stalks become difficult to chew.
As whales eat plankton, a living thing of the sea, we eat other living
organism, meat bearing or not.

When I was a vegetarian, I was pretty much successful being one in the
Philippines,however I use bagoong and patis with my food knowing that
those teenie-tiny shrimps pygmie species of the shrimp family is distant
cousin of the plankton, the most delish kind of bagoong. I cooked my own
food and did not force anyone to cook special for me.

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-13 23:48:48 UTC

Even if it was possible - what´s the point of it? The stalk would die
anyway.

More to that - have you ever asked yourself why it should be okay for
animals to eat other animals (and plants), but not for humans?

Post by pong
My thought is that vegetables are designed to be eaten, and so they are
fulfilling their destiny and are happy to go to that great big party in the
Big Intestine.

Yep. Le´t have a party! ;-)

With Crispy BBQed Piggy

pong

2005-01-18 20:23:15 UTC

I don't have a good answer myself, but my kids will argue 2 things to
explain why they don't eat meat: 1) that livestock today are full of
chemicals (anti-biotics, etc), and hormones - and have been so genetically
altered that the only way to keep them alive is to keep them on these
chemicals and hormones. In their case they will eat fish, and perhaps free
range chickens. 2) when an animal is slaughtered, it knows it is going to
be killed and goes into a panic - that fear produces adrenalin and other
chemicals that permeate the meat and make it unhealthy to eat (in addition
to the chemicals and hormones) They may have more reasons, but these are
the main ones I can recall.

I will eat meat anytime, but since I still live with my younger son, I try
to respect his ways and minimize the meat we have at home (I keep a can of
spam just in case I have a craving). It's helped me to eat healthy also - I
eat meat only 2 or 3 times a week when he's here... mostly we have tofu,
soy, and munggo as our protein sources.

Post by pong
In a way, grains are also "fruit" of their plants, but you have to kill

the

Post by pong
whole plant to harvest them, unless someone can figure out a way to get

the

Post by pong
palay from the rice stalk without cutting and threshing.

Even if it was possible - what´s the point of it? The stalk would die
anyway.

but

Post by pong
"kill" the plant to get at them.
Others yet are the heart of the plant - you have to kill a whole coconut
tree to get the ubod.
Where do you draw the line?

More to that - have you ever asked yourself why it should be okay for
animals to eat other animals (and plants), but not for humans?

Post by pong
My thought is that vegetables are designed to be eaten, and so they are
fulfilling their destiny and are happy to go to that great big party in

the

Post by pong
Big Intestine.

Yep. Le´t have a party! ;-)
With Crispy BBQed Piggy

Mo Silidonio

2005-01-18 21:05:18 UTC

What about your son respecting your ways and letting you have as much
meat dish as you want?

LeeBat

2005-01-19 20:13:03 UTC

Post by Mo Silidonio
What about your son respecting your ways and letting you have as much
meat dish as you want?

No shit. I would gib dat boy sutts a smack, his head would spin.

My son and I still joke about one of my favorite lines when he was
growing up, "Hey, I made you. If I'm not happy, I'll just kill you and
make another one."

LoloBat
ladies, ignore the above .... its called "male bonding"

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-19 23:38:21 UTC

Post by LeeBat

Post by Mo Silidonio
What about your son respecting your ways and letting you have as much
meat dish as you want?

No shit. I would gib dat boy sutts a smack, his head would spin.
My son and I still joke about one of my favorite lines when he was
growing up, "Hey, I made you. If I'm not happy, I'll just kill you and
make another one."

LOL! If only something like this had come to my mind earlier...!

Post by LeeBat
LoloBat
ladies, ignore the above .... its called "male bonding"

Oops, too late. It´s called "female disobedience" :-p

Child Raising Piggy

pong

2005-01-21 00:55:52 UTC

He does not try to stop me from eating meat - in fact I eat meat whenever
and wherever I want. I find myself eating less these days.

He believes eating meat is unhealthy, so I guess out of love for me he tries
to encourage me to be more vegetarian. In other words he does respect my
ways, but at the same time my ways are gradually evolving towards more
vegetarianism.

I also believe eating vegetables is healthier, so I go along whenever I am
able to. I think they're doing the right thing, and admire them for being
able to make the switch, kind of like someone who decided to quit smoking
and did it. Also, so as not to make it difficult for my younger son who
still lives with me, I try to make sure that I always have soy milk, salads,
stir-fry veggies, cambell's vegetable soup and brown rice etc at home.
Also the rare times that I actually cook I've learned to substitute
vege-meat for ground beef and vege-sauges for hotdogs. I can cook a pretty
good vegetarian sinigang but I do miss that kangkong - linalagyan ko nalang
ng spinach - peke pero at least rich in iron. And cooking vegetarian
spaghetti, or cheese omelette is really easy.

It takes some effort though - the challege of vegetarianism is making sure
you get enough protein, which is especially important for the middle aged
and old as your muscle mass begins to deteriorate. What I do is drink a lot
more milk, eat more cheese, and have a high-protein drink whenever I can.

I used to work with a guy from Indonesia, he and his wife were both 7th day
Adventist, and they were very healthy. As you can imagine they ate a lot of
fruit.

Post by Mo Silidonio
What about your son respecting your ways and letting you have as much
meat dish as you want?

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-21 00:29:05 UTC

Post by pong
I don't have a good answer myself, but my kids will argue 2 things to
explain why they don't eat meat: 1) that livestock today are full of
chemicals (anti-biotics, etc), and hormones - and have been so genetically
altered that the only way to keep them alive is to keep them on these
chemicals and hormones. In their case they will eat fish, and perhaps free
range chickens.

They are right about the chemicals and hormones, but I fear this is also
true for dairies, veggies and fruits - they are full of pesticides and
herbicides and maybe conservation chemicals. Of course, there might be more
of it in meat, since animals are on top of plants in the food chain, but
this problem could be circumvented by getting meat from a farm where they
don´t use chemicals. Of course, this meat will be much more expensive.

2) when an animal is slaughtered, it knows it is going to

Post by pong
be killed and goes into a panic - that fear produces adrenalin and other
chemicals that permeate the meat and make it unhealthy to eat (in addition
to the chemicals and hormones) They may have more reasons, but these are
the main ones I can recall.

Yes, animals produce adrenalin when under stress, but I suppose so does a
fish when it´s caught in a net. Although I would like it if animals were
slaughtered the softest way possible, there is no evidence that their
adrenalin is bad for human health, as far as I see. Maybe it´s bad for our
health to eat too much meat in total, but considering the longevity of
people in the industrialized countries with a strong meat diet, I´m not sure
of it.
As for the adrenalin - I read that Chinese use to beat dogs to death as a
slaughtering method, because they think the meat will be more tender then.
They don´t seem to care about adrenalin.

Post by pong
I will eat meat anytime, but since I still live with my younger son, I try
to respect his ways and minimize the meat we have at home (I keep a can of
spam just in case I have a craving). It's helped me to eat healthy also - I
eat meat only 2 or 3 times a week when he's here... mostly we have tofu,
soy, and munggo as our protein sources.

As long as everybody´s fine with it, who could oppose?! :-)

Yoghurt Piggy

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-13 23:36:09 UTC

Post by tansong tumbaga
When I heard about fruits being the only part of a plant that is
supposed to be taken and eaten, I tried to eat nothing but fruits, talk
about being purist. Very expensive and impractical. Too much sugar.

LOL, you are too good-hearted! :-)
When I was young, I also was flirting with a "pacifistic diet" but found it
impossible to get it into concordance with a practical social life. Then I
found comfort in the thought that though I kill other living beings to live
by, some living beings maybe kill ME one day (be it a tiger, a shark or,
more likely, some bacteria). One day worms and fungus and bacteria will eat
my flesh, so the circle will be fulfilled.

Quadratic Piggy

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-14 06:14:57 UTC

Non-human beings will never feel guilty about killing you for food. I
say, this world is designed as "The fattest guy win!!!". Oh, that'l make
Randy the real winner.

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-07 04:53:34 UTC

----------------
In two words, YOU'RE SCREWED. Vegetarianism is FOREIGN to most RURAL FOLK.
They'd think you're some kind of lunatic. It won't help your cause winning
your girlfriend's family.
How about eating bugs? Do you also avoid them for ethical reasons? If so,
what ethical reasons are these?
--
DalubBetterToBeTruthfulAndHonest

Vegetables have feelings too, you know.

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-07 00:59:15 UTC

OMG! You´ll have a hard time. LOL!
Last year I visited the Philippines with my vegetarian friend, but she at
least ate fish. It was difficult enough though, because (like JT already
told you) vegetarism is quite foreign to Filipinos.
You should be aware that with your rejection of carnal food you will cause
everyone around you an extra hardship, work, and headache. Your hosts will
do everything to meet your needs but by that you´ll force them to narrow
their usual diet plan in a more than just marginal way. It will also affect
everyone in your company, because it will exclude them completely from
visiting certain restaurant, unless they don´t mind you can´t find ANYTHING
vegetarian there.
And more to it, you will give everyone around you the bad feeling that THEIR
daily food is not alright, or not good enough. Your behaviour will be a
subliminally accusation of doing something wrong to all the meat-eating
people around you, and this will NOT make them feel comfortable! Think
about it!
If I were you, I would give up vegetarism on your journey in order to be
polite. I use to think that in a foreign country one should eat EVERYTHING
of the common local food, and everything offered, unless it makes you squirm
with disgust or makes you physically sick. If you can´t do it, you better
stay at home! ;-)

Omnivore Piggy

Just JT

2005-01-07 01:28:55 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You should be aware that with your rejection of carnal food you will cause
everyone around you an extra hardship, work, and headache.

-------------
Uhm, mein Schatz, I think you meant MEAT. The word CARNAL has a totally
different meaning in the English dialect!

:-D

--
DalubCarnalDebugger

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-07 01:50:04 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You should be aware that with your rejection of carnal food you will cause
everyone around you an extra hardship, work, and headache.

-------------
Uhm, mein Schatz, I think you meant MEAT. The word CARNAL has a totally
different meaning in the English dialect!
:-D

What the f...? :-D
The Latin word "carne" means meat, so I *thought* it´s alright...

Fleshless Piggy

Just JT

2005-01-07 02:01:52 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
What the f...? :-D
The Latin word "carne" means meat, so I *thought* itŽs alright...
Fleshless Piggy

----------------
You know how dialect TWISTS and TURNS through the centuries of usage. What
it meant a thousand years ago means different today.

I quote the American Heritage Dictionary:

Carnal: adj. - Relating to the physical and especially sexual appetites

http://www.bartleby.com/61/74/C0117400.html

--
DalubFleshFishFromTheSea

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-07 02:32:12 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
What the f...? :-D
The Latin word "carne" means meat, so I *thought* it´s alright...

----------------
You know how dialect TWISTS and TURNS through the centuries of usage. What
it meant a thousand years ago means different today.
Carnal: adj. - Relating to the physical and especially sexual appetites
http://www.bartleby.com/61/74/C0117400.html
--
DalubFleshFishFromTheSea

Why do words change their meanings? Why are we never safe from
misunderstandings and errors? Or worse - did my subconsciousness: play a
trick on me?? :-(
I guess I better send you my posts for a double meaning check before I post
them! :-))

Deliberate Censorship Piggy

Mo Silidonio

2005-01-07 03:08:24 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You should be aware that with your rejection of carnal food you will

cause

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
everyone around you an extra hardship, work, and headache.

-------------
Uhm, mein Schatz, I think you meant MEAT. The word CARNAL has a totally
different meaning in the English dialect!
:-D

What the f...? :-D
The Latin word "carne" means meat, so I *thought* itŽs alright...

Your post was probably flavored by Pembrook's post on the vegetarian husband
and Pinay who eats his "meat".

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 02:43:28 UTC

Post by Mo Silidonio

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You should be aware that with your rejection of carnal food you will

cause

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
everyone around you an extra hardship, work, and headache.

-------------
Uhm, mein Schatz, I think you meant MEAT. The word CARNAL has a totally
different meaning in the English dialect!
:-D

What the f...? :-D
The Latin word "carne" means meat, so I *thought* it´s alright...

Your post was probably flavored by Pembrook's post on the vegetarian husband
and Pinay who eats his "meat".

Aaaargh, Mo, it´s just my LANGUAGE problem, okay? No subliminally flavored
messages!!! :-))

Misinterpreted Piggy

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-07 04:59:25 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You should be aware that with your rejection of carnal food you will

cause

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
everyone around you an extra hardship, work, and headache.

-------------
Uhm, mein Schatz, I think you meant MEAT. The word CARNAL has a totally
different meaning in the English dialect!
:-D

What the f...? :-D
The Latin word "carne" means meat, so I *thought* it´s alright...
Fleshless Piggy

The f...? is the right suggestion for carnal in English. Eat your Meat!

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 02:49:18 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You should be aware that with your rejection of carnal food you will

cause

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
everyone around you an extra hardship, work, and headache.

-------------
Uhm, mein Schatz, I think you meant MEAT. The word CARNAL has a totally
different meaning in the English dialect!
:-D

What the f...? :-D
The Latin word "carne" means meat, so I *thought* it´s alright...

The f...? is the right suggestion for carnal in English. Eat your Meat!

Holy a**! I´m getting deeper into it with every post! The only good thing is
that DSP is not around - I don´t dare figure HIS comment on it...:-D

Piggy In Trouble

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-08 05:24:34 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
What the f...? :-D
The Latin word "carne" means meat, so I *thought* it´s alright...

The f...? is the right suggestion for carnal in English. Eat your Meat!

Holy a**! I´m getting deeper into it with every post! The only good thing is
that DSP is not around - I don´t dare figure HIS comment on it...:-D
Piggy In Trouble

Sorry, just having fun... enjoy it anyway.

DJ k

2005-01-08 03:44:05 UTC

Post by Just JT
Uhm, mein Schatz, I think you meant MEAT. The word CARNAL has a totally
different meaning in the English dialect!
:-D

What the f...? :-D
The Latin word "carne" means meat, so I *thought* itŽs alright...
Fleshless Piggy

CARNAL = BRUDDAH

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 03:56:48 UTC

Post by DJ k

Post by Just JT
Uhm, mein Schatz, I think you meant MEAT. The word CARNAL has a totally
different meaning in the English dialect!
:-D

What the f...? :-D
The Latin word "carne" means meat, so I *thought* it´s alright...

CARNAL = BRUDDAH

Nah, I´m not getting carnal with my bruddah...;-))

Sister Piggy

DSP

2005-01-08 04:31:49 UTC

JT was just being JT. Don't believe everything he says. Carnal is ok.
Carnal is knowledge.

LesserIncludedOffense Pig

Boracay Bill

2005-01-08 05:16:43 UTC

Post by DSP
Carnal is knowledge.

Plot Summary for
Carnal Knowledge (1971)
Sandy and Jonathan are roomates in college who's experiences with women
offer a contrast. Both of them go from one disfunctional relationship
to another in this Jules Feiffer script. A line that Feiffer removed
from the Script was, "Boys begin life not liking girls, later they
don't change, they just get horny."

Produced and Directed by Mike Nichols
Written by Jules Feiffer
Jack Nicholson
Candice Bergen
Art Garfunkel
Ann-Margret
Rita Moreno
Cynthia O'Neal
Carol Kane

(from www.imdb.com)

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 21:17:35 UTC

Post by DSP
JT was just being JT. Don't believe everything he says. Carnal is ok.

And I thought I could trust JT! :-(

Shattered Belief Piggy

Just JT

2005-01-08 21:23:20 UTC

Post by DSP
JT was just being JT. Don't believe everything he says. Carnal is ok.

And I thought I could trust JT! :-(

-----------------
Mein Schatz, let me ask you this: would you believe in someone who eats
GARBAGE and enjoys PLAYING IN THE MUD?

:-)

--
DalubButILoveMudCake

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 21:33:25 UTC

Post by DSP
JT was just being JT. Don't believe everything he says. Carnal is ok.

And I thought I could trust JT! :-(

-----------------
Mein Schatz, let me ask you this: would you believe in someone who eats
GARBAGE and enjoys PLAYING IN THE MUD?
:-)

You mean DSP just wants to badmouth you???

Restored Belief Piggy

ZLorca

2005-01-07 02:03:00 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You should be aware that with your rejection of carnal food you will cause
everyone around you an extra hardship, work, and headache.
And more to it, you will give everyone around you the bad feeling that THEIR
daily food is not alright, or not good enough.

This is exactly what I don't want. Maybe my girlfriend can prepare them
ahead of time.

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
If I were you, I would give up vegetarism on your journey in order to be
polite.>

I was surprised by the hostility of a number of the responses and how
people can understand the uproar my being a vegetarian might cause those in
the Philippines but how these same people -people who seem to have the
capacity to reflect on both PI and American culture - can't seem to grasp or
accept why someone would be a vegetarian. It's an ethical position, a
belief, in the same way I wouldn't expect a Jew to eat pork or better yet, a
Catholic to eat meat on Friday during Lent.

I won't flinch if there is some fish, etc. in my food because I am polite
but other vegetarians would decline, as would many Buddhists. Practically
speaking I'll have to be polite, hope it works out, and hope I'm accepted
for who I am.

Wish me luck!

Just JT

2005-01-07 03:26:57 UTC

Post by ZLorca
I was surprised by the hostility of a number of the responses and how
people can understand the uproar my being a vegetarian might cause those in
the Philippines but how these same people -people who seem to have the
capacity to reflect on both PI and American culture - can't seem to grasp or
accept why someone would be a vegetarian.

---------------
Trust me, we've been nice to you. If you perceive our response as HOSTILITY,
then expect PERSECUTION when you visit PI.

--
DalubTruthBeToldThatYouHaveBeenForewarned

Mo Silidonio

2005-01-07 05:50:29 UTC

THEIR

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
daily food is not alright, or not good enough.

This is exactly what I don't want. Maybe my girlfriend can prepare them
ahead of time.

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
If I were you, I would give up vegetarism on your journey in order to be
polite.>

I didn't see any hosility in any of the responses so far. Foretelling
reaction of those who you might meet there is borne out of gut feeling and
understanding of the locals. Those could be wrong, though. It's a personal
choice to be vegetarian. Those of us who are not, do not need to understand
your reasons. Personally, I couldn't care less. But if I invite you over
for dinner, I would prepare something special for you. If I throw a house
party, say a birthday, and you happen to come, you have to pick/choose your
fare through the buffet table. I do not understand nor accept your notion
that being a vegetarian is an ethical position. Are you saying meat eaters
are unethical?

Post by ZLorca
I won't flinch if there is some fish, etc. in my food because I am polite
but other vegetarians would decline, as would many Buddhists. Practically
speaking I'll have to be polite, hope it works out, and hope I'm accepted
for who I am.
Wish me luck!

You can choose to be a vegetarian. But people need not cater to your
preferences, unless you go to a vegatarian restaurant.

Arptro

2005-01-07 06:30:35 UTC

I do not understand nor accept your notion

Post by Mo Silidonio
that being a vegetarian is an ethical position. Are you saying meat
eaters are unethical?

I really could care less if you eat meat. Of course being a vegetarian is an
ethical position ! One decides one does not want to eat animals because that
involves killing an animal. Chosing not to kill is an ethical position. You
may not agree but you can't deny that it is a decision made from a system of
beliefs about right or wrong, ethics.

Post by Mo Silidonio
Those of us who are not, do not need to understand your reasons.

Maybe you don't need to, but I think people should be tolerant and have
broad minds, whether the issue be religious, political, etc. That's
tantamount to saying I don't need to understand the position of Muslims or
the poor because I am neither.

I don't expect nor want anyone to cater to me, either, but I want to
minimize people's discomfort and my own without alot of explanation or
misunderstanding. If you had me over for dinner I'd warn you ahead of time.

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 03:53:21 UTC

Post by Mo Silidonio
I do not understand nor accept your notion

Post by Mo Silidonio
that being a vegetarian is an ethical position. Are you saying meat
eaters are unethical?

What is wrong with killing animals?
And then - you don´t have to kill animals to eat them. When they are already
dead and roasted, why not eat them? If you find it immoral to kill animals
you shouldn´t eat eggs and dairies. Just think for a second: in order to get
eggs, you need hens, but you don´t need many cocks, because you can´t feed
lots of cocks for nothing. Yet by breeding you have a 50/50 proportion of
cocks and hens. What can you do about it? Release all the surplus cocks to
the wilderness? After you have done this, your hens get older and stop
giving eggs. What will you do? Build big farms for the aged hens until they
die from frailty? It´s quite the same with dairy. You can´t have milk if you
don´t take away the calves fom the cow. Do you think human kind was created
to make the life of animals more pleasant? :-))

Post by Mo Silidonio

Post by Mo Silidonio
Those of us who are not, do not need to understand your reasons.

Tolerance is a nice thing, but how far does it go until the position of one
person affects the life of someone else? My rule of thumb is: The guest
should adapt to the host as much as possible. Although I´m a coffee drinker,
I have a cup of tea when I´m guest of an addicted tea drinker, unless he
deliberately OFFERS me some coffee. If I were in a Muslim country, I would
not insist on having a porc steak, but I don´t like some Muslim frown at it
when he watches me eating it in MY country.

Post by Mo Silidonio
I don't expect nor want anyone to cater to me, either, but I want to
minimize people's discomfort and my own without alot of explanation or
misunderstanding. If you had me over for dinner I'd warn you ahead of time.

Wouldn´t it be more polite to eat whatever Mo will serve you for dinner and
be vegetarian when you are at home? It´s also a nice side effect that eating
what someone else has prepared, you might get to know things which you
coldn´t taste anywhere else. You might have sensations you never dreamed
possible.:-)

Eat First Ask Later Piggy

dr ngo

2005-01-08 05:16:17 UTC

"Sylvia Kn�rr" <***@t-online.de> wrote in message news:crnlfo$akh$01$***@news.t-online.com...
you donŽt need many cocks, because you canŽt feed

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
lots of cocks for nothing.

Quoted Without Comment

Gadarene Swine

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 21:26:58 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
you don´t need many cocks, because you can´t feed

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
lots of cocks for nothing.

Quoted Without Comment
Gadarene Swine

When even the academics are full of piggish thoughts, there is little hope
for a better world...

Innocent Mind Piggy

DSP

2005-01-09 19:09:33 UTC

Cocks have no conscience, nor a sense of right and wrong. They are
just cocks, running on pure instinct, hitting their targets fair and
true. Specially when they retire from strutting and showing off their
fine plummage.
Rooster Pig
(See? No piggish thoughts like that academaniac!)

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-10 01:43:31 UTC

Post by DSP
Cocks have no conscience, nor a sense of right and wrong. They are
just cocks, running on pure instinct, hitting their targets fair and
true. Specially when they retire from strutting and showing off their
fine plummage.
Rooster Pig
(See? No piggish thoughts like that academaniac!)

Oh yes. Piggish thoughts are so foreign to you. Go tell it to your
confessor! :-))

Fowl Breeder Piggy

DSP

2005-01-09 19:03:32 UTC

Me too. I decline the opportunity presented to comment on this cocks
thing.

ContentedWithOne Pig
Overworked as it is

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-08 05:36:46 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
What is wrong with killing animals?
And then - you don´t have to kill animals to eat them. When they are already
dead and roasted, why not eat them? If you find it immoral to kill animals
you shouldn´t eat eggs and dairies. Just think for a second: in order to get
eggs, you need hens, but you don´t need many cocks, because you can´t feed
lots of cocks for nothing. Yet by breeding you have a 50/50 proportion of
cocks and hens. What can you do about it? Release all the surplus cocks to
the wilderness? After you have done this, your hens get older and stop
giving eggs. What will you do? Build big farms for the aged hens until they
die from frailty? It´s quite the same with dairy. You can´t have milk if you
don´t take away the calves fom the cow. Do you think human kind was created
to make the life of animals more pleasant? :-))

unfertilized chicken embryo is what we normally eat as eggs, this is
actually hen's natural menstruation, waste matter actually. Hens
menstruate daily, unlike human females who do it monthly. Fertilized
egss gets to hatch into little chickens. Makes so-so balut as well.

Milk is waste as well when a cow without calves has it.

Post by Mo Silidonio
Those of us who are not, do not need to understand your reasons.

Post by Arptro
I don't expect nor want anyone to cater to me, either, but I want to
minimize people's discomfort and my own without alot of explanation or
misunderstanding. If you had me over for dinner I'd warn you ahead of

time.
Wouldn´t it be more polite to eat whatever Mo will serve you for dinner and
be vegetarian when you are at home? It´s also a nice side effect that eating
what someone else has prepared, you might get to know things which you
coldn´t taste anywhere else. You might have sensations you never dreamed
possible.:-)
Eat First Ask Later Piggy

Nothing wrong with being vegetarian, I was a vegetarian, but for
practical reasons abandoned it. I was a vegetarian for health not on
silly notions of ethics, I wear leather for one.

What I used to do is to cook for my hosts and cook myself a vegetarian
dish, a simple kangkong dish with rice, or seared vegetables.

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-12 00:44:15 UTC

unfertilized chicken embryo is what we normally eat as eggs, this is
actually hen's natural menstruation, waste matter actually. Hens
menstruate daily, unlike human females who do it monthly. Fertilized
egss gets to hatch into little chickens. Makes so-so balut as well.
Milk is waste as well when a cow without calves has it.

What you say about hens laying eggs and cows giving milk is only true for
domesticated animals, in wild life there is no waste of eggs and milk.
I consider it as some kind of fair deal: men domesticated animals, gave them
food and shelter and therefore eat them after a while. A win/win deal!
Sounds perfectly fair to me, as long as there is no inhuman treatment of the
farm animals.

Post by tansong tumbaga
Nothing wrong with being vegetarian, I was a vegetarian, but for
practical reasons abandoned it. I was a vegetarian for health not on
silly notions of ethics, I wear leather for one.

Did your health improve without meat?

Post by tansong tumbaga
What I used to do is to cook for my hosts and cook myself a vegetarian
dish, a simple kangkong dish with rice, or seared vegetables.

What is a kangkong dish?

King Kong Piggy

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-12 04:35:11 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
What you say about hens laying eggs and cows giving milk is only true for
domesticated animals, in wild life there is no waste of eggs and milk.
I consider it as some kind of fair deal: men domesticated animals, gave them
food and shelter and therefore eat them after a while. A win/win deal!
Sounds perfectly fair to me, as long as there is no inhuman treatment of the
farm animals.

For chickens, laying eggs is a natural function, other chicken eats the
eggs, including the shell if it is unfertilized, this is in the wild.
Philippines has wild chickens, smaller than domesticated chicken and a
lot more colorful. They also attack humans that encroach on their territory.
For cows, I don't know, but one thing I know is that milking cows were
bred for that purpose. I am sure they don't produce milk if there is no
young calves. But like I said, I don't know.

Did your health improve without meat?

Didn't get sick once, not even a cold. Wonder of wonders, I can even
feel if I might get sick and eat the proper diet to prevent it from
happening. Kalamansi for colds, ginger teas before I sleep. Even salt
has uses.
But I also dont do anything except that, nowadays, I cannot afford to do
that. I have to work, if I get hungry at work, I have to get what I can get.

Post by tansong tumbaga
What I used to do is to cook for my hosts and cook myself a vegetarian
dish, a simple kangkong dish with rice, or seared vegetables.

What is a kangkong dish?
King Kong Piggy

Kangkong is a type of reed that lives on swampy areas, like reed it is
like tiny bamboo but soft and green, lots of green leaves, crunchy and
tasty. sautee it with onions, garlic and soy sauce. It is a favorite of
mine. Even today.

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-16 02:29:22 UTC

Post by tansong tumbaga
For chickens, laying eggs is a natural function, other chicken eats the
eggs, including the shell if it is unfertilized, this is in the wild.
Philippines has wild chickens, smaller than domesticated chicken and a
lot more colorful. They also attack humans that encroach on their territory.

They are smaller than domesticated chicken and dare to attack humans? They
must be either very courageous or reborn martyrs! :-)

Post by tansong tumbaga
For cows, I don't know, but one thing I know is that milking cows were
bred for that purpose. I am sure they don't produce milk if there is no
young calves. But like I said, I don't know.

I know for sure, because I spent some time on an animal farm when I was a
kid. You can´t have milk from any mammal unless it has given birth to a
young one.
Of course they were bred for that purpose, that´s the reason why
domesticated animals don´t look the same anymore like their wild relatives.
The only domesticated animal which has not changed all too much is the cat.

Did your health improve without meat?

Didn't get sick once, not even a cold. Wonder of wonders, I can even
feel if I might get sick and eat the proper diet to prevent it from
happening.

That´s great! Listening to your body can spare you the doctor in most cases.

Kalamansi for colds, ginger teas before I sleep. Even salt

Post by tansong tumbaga
has uses.

Yes, most plants and substances can be useful to heal certain ailments.

Post by tansong tumbaga
But I also dont do anything except that, nowadays, I cannot afford to do
that. I have to work, if I get hungry at work, I have to get what I can get.

Sure, for an individually designed diet you need more time.

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
What is a kangkong dish?

Sounds interesting. I put it on my "To eat" list for my next trip to the
Philippines. :-)

Long List Piggy

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-16 05:05:18 UTC

territory.
They are smaller than domesticated chicken and dare to attack humans? They
must be either very courageous or reborn martyrs! :-)

Smaller and meaner, territorial fowls. Not too many left. There are
groups who wanted to preserve their existence. From what someone has
e-mailed me once, chicken isn't known in Western Europe and Africa till
about 500 B.C.
No one really knows who introduced the chicken, or whether it arrived
via India or Africa, but it nearly impossible for a warm blooded
creature who flies only a few feet off the ground to be transported
freely, it has to be introduced.

Even domesticated cat will hunt the way wild cats would.

Did your health improve without meat?

Didn't get sick once, not even a cold. Wonder of wonders, I can even
feel if I might get sick and eat the proper diet to prevent it from
happening.

That´s great! Listening to your body can spare you the doctor in most cases.
Kalamansi for colds, ginger teas before I sleep. Even salt

Post by tansong tumbaga
has uses.

Yes, most plants and substances can be useful to heal certain ailments.

Post by tansong tumbaga
But I also dont do anything except that, nowadays, I cannot afford to do
that. I have to work, if I get hungry at work, I have to get what I can

get.
Sure, for an individually designed diet you need more time.

I agree. Each diet is individualized, like for me a diet of ruits would
not be safe, I am teetering on high sugar on my blood.

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
What is a kangkong dish?

Sounds interesting. I put it on my "To eat" list for my next trip to the
Philippines. :-)
Long List Piggy

It is considered a poor man's diet, because you can find this vegetable
anywhere in Southeast Asia.

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-20 01:24:21 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
They are smaller than domesticated chicken and dare to attack humans? They
must be either very courageous or reborn martyrs! :-)

Smaller and meaner, territorial fowls. Not too many left.

It´s a wonder they could survive at all, considering the Pinoy trend to put
everything into the frying pan! They probably live in very remote places.

There are

Post by tansong tumbaga
groups who wanted to preserve their existence. From what someone has
e-mailed me once, chicken isn't known in Western Europe and Africa till
about 500 B.C.
No one really knows who introduced the chicken, or whether it arrived
via India or Africa, but it nearly impossible for a warm blooded
creature who flies only a few feet off the ground to be transported
freely, it has to be introduced.

Yes, I also think they were domesticated just once and then introduced to
other peoples.

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
Of course they were bred for that purpose, that´s the reason why
domesticated animals don´t look the same anymore like their wild relatives.
The only domesticated animal which has not changed all too much is the cat.

Even domesticated cat will hunt the way wild cats would.

Exactly, they still preserved a lot tof their "wild" behavior ant they still
can live on their own if necessary.
In Manila I was surprised that I saw lots of cats in the streets, even among
the beggars. I would have expected that poor people would EAT them stray
cats, but no...
Somehow it made me glad to see these stray cats in Manila, they will keep
the city clean of rats and vermint.

Post by tansong tumbaga
Kangkong is a type of reed that lives on swampy areas, like reed it is
like tiny bamboo but soft and green, lots of green leaves, crunchy and
tasty. sautee it with onions, garlic and soy sauce. It is a favorite of
mine. Even today.

Sounds interesting. I put it on my "To eat" list for my next trip to the
Philippines. :-)

It is considered a poor man's diet, because you can find this vegetable
anywhere in Southeast Asia.

Really? Then why did *I* not find it on my trip to the Philippines??? :-))

Didn´t Search It Then Piggy

DSP

2005-01-08 05:12:46 UTC

I predict that you will enjoy your Philippine trip for the following
reasons:

1. Pinoys are extra-hospitable. They will NOT force you to eat what
you refuse to eat on ethical grounds. Of course it must be
painstakingly explained, but you will be understood and your
idiosyncracy respected. Pinoys will not force Moslems and Jews to eat
pork. Your vegetarianism must be explained on similar grounds. But
beware of some perverted humor from the younger gang. You can get back
at them by bringing some trick plastic vomitus from a novelty shop and
leaving it on the tabletop after some convincing retching.

2. Vegan dishes are a snap to prepare. Your hosts might even be
relieved that they don't have to do so much kitchen work for you. In
return, you may enjoy demonstrating your tricks in prepping and cooking
veggies the vegan way.

3. You will be in a country where there are more fruits than
vegetables, I kid you not! If you can survive on fruits alone and raw
veggies, then you should be ok anywhere. If visiting a home, bring a
bag of fruits for everyone and yourself. There are very few cooked
fruit dishes in Pinas. Show them a few of your versions. By the way,
ovens are a novelty there. Most everything is stovetop artistry.

Always take a bag of lanzones fruit when you take your gal to the
movies. And disregard the doomsdayers here.

DSP
Carnalvorous Vegan

R. Cutter

2005-01-07 06:49:23 UTC

THEIR

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
daily food is not alright, or not good enough.

This is exactly what I don't want. Maybe my girlfriend can prepare them
ahead of time.

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
If I were you, I would give up vegetarism on your journey in order to be
polite.>

It's merely your belief, not an ethical choice. As a meat-eater, I do not
pass judgement on people who eschew meat as doing something immoral or
unethical. Why should a vegetarian's position on food preference be deemed
as the correct view? We don't care that you do not eat meat; why would you
look down on people who love their steaks?

Xianghua71

2005-01-08 01:32:31 UTC

THEIR

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
daily food is not alright, or not good enough.

This is exactly what I don't want. Maybe my girlfriend can prepare them
ahead of time.

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
If I were you, I would give up vegetarism on your journey in order to be
polite.>

I was surprised by the hostility of a number of the responses and how
people can understand the uproar my being a vegetarian might cause those in
the Philippines but how these same people -people who seem to have the
capacity to reflect on both PI and American culture - can't seem to grasp or
accept why someone would be a vegetarian. It's an ethical position, a
belief, in the same way I wouldn't expect a Jew to eat pork or better yet, a
Catholic to eat meat on Friday during Lent.
I won't flinch if there is some fish, etc. in my food because I am polite
but other vegetarians would decline, as would many Buddhists. Practically
speaking I'll have to be polite, hope it works out, and hope I'm accepted
for who I am.
Wish me luck!

The most polite way to meet your girlfriend's family is to enjoy the
culture. But there is no polite way to decline their food. Should you
someday marry her, you will be marrying that culture. Not only will you
impress them but they will love you if that matters al all. Have you seen My
Big Fat Greek Wedding?

First of all vegetarianism is not a religion so you sin against nothing by
simply trying foods that are not what you would usually eat. You might
surpise yourself because some are actually really good. If you still don't
like it then you can go back to you vegetarian ways when you get back home.
Then you should consider finding another girlfriend or you both will be
miserable.

X

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 02:35:27 UTC

THEIR

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
daily food is not alright, or not good enough.

This is exactly what I don't want. Maybe my girlfriend can prepare them
ahead of time.

Hm, you want your girlfriend level the road for you to get som special
treatment. If she loves you, she will do it for you, but I think that´s not
the best of all ways to deal with her family.
I like very much what Xianghua told you: "The most polite way to meet your
girlfriend's family is to enjoy the culture. But there is no polite way to
decline their food. Should you someday marry her, you will be marrying that
culture."
As far as I understand it, food is an essential part of Pinoy culture, with
fish and meat in its center. Man, the Philippines is an archipelago made of
thousands of islands, there is fish and seafood everywhere! LOL!
If you can´t cope with the most important aspects of this culture, how can
you ever come close enough to it to FEEL it, let it under your skin? You´ll
always stay foreign to them.

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
If I were you, I would give up vegetarism on your journey in order to be
polite.>

There was a little bit of sarcasm maybe, but not a trace of hostility,
believe me! You couldn´t find a better and friendlier group to give you good
advice. You should listen to them! I was a stranger to the Philippine
culture myself, but they adviced me so carefully that my first trip to the
Philippines last year turned out to be a dazzling experience. Actually, the
most hampering part was the vegetarism of my travelling companion! :-))
You seem to be a bit touchy because Filipinos are somehow warning you. But
it´s not the issue whether they accept vegetarism or not - it could be
anything else incompatible with Filipino culture (like insisting on nudity
at the beach etc). Point is, if you are there, you should adapt to THEIR
life, trying to understand THEIR culture, and not putting your personal
taboos higher than their everyday life.

It's an ethical position, a

Post by ZLorca
belief, in the same way I wouldn't expect a Jew to eat pork or better yet, a
Catholic to eat meat on Friday during Lent.

Well, you can tolerate food taboos, but how complicated does it get when the
taboo is not only for certain days (like Catholics not eating meat on
Friday) or only for certain types of meat (like pork for Jews). In your
case, it is EVERY meat and EVERY seafood, and this demands much greater
efforts to avoid. Your hosts will probably try to prepare some extra food
for you, things far from their ordinary cooking. Do you find that okay?

You want to be accepted, but it´s a two way road! Do some steps in THEIR
direction, then it will be easier for them to accept you. :-)

Post by ZLorca
Wish me luck!

Oh yes I wish you lots of luck, you will need it! :-))

Happily Filipinized Piggy

Boracay Bill

2005-01-07 05:23:05 UTC

Sylvia Knörr wrote:
<snip>

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You should be aware that with your rejection of carnal food you will

cause

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
everyone around you an extra hardship, work, and headache. Your hosts

will

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
do everything to meet your needs but by that you´ll force them to

narrow

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
their usual diet plan in a more than just marginal way. It will also

affect

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
everyone in your company, because it will exclude them completely

from

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
visiting certain restaurant, unless they don´t mind you can´t find

ANYTHING

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
vegetarian there.

<snip>

This brought to mind a memorable night out with friends (memorable by
definition -- this was in 1985 and I remember it well today). I had
been working in Tel Aviv for about a month and had had dinner a couple
of times at the homes of local co-workers. I invited a group of
co-workers and their wives out for dinner. One co-worker warned me
that his wife was very strict about observing Jewish dietary laws, and
tried to beg off on that account. I wouldn't hear of it. "We'll eat
wherever and whatever she is OK with", sez me.

Come the night, and our group of a dozen or so people spend two or
three hours trooping from one restaurant to another in downtown Tel
Aviv. We would go into a place after making sure that it displayed
proper certification of Kosherness. The wife, the manager, and the chef
would have a spirited discussion in Hebrew, after which we would either
leave or they would go off together to inspect the kitchen. The
kitchen inspection would turn up something unacceptable, and the group
would collect itself and troops off to another place where the process
would be repeated. Two or three hours. Lots of restaurants. Downtown
Tel Aviv. Can't find a restaurant Kosher enough.

We finally did find one -- a Kosher Chinese restaurant located well
away from the downtown area. I kid you not.

As I recall, the killer issue in most cases had to do with the
separation between meat and dairy. The wife had stricter requirements
than usual about that.

Mark A Framness

2005-01-07 18:10:53 UTC

Post by Boracay Bill
As I recall, the killer issue in most cases had to do with the
separation between meat and dairy. The wife had stricter requirements
than usual about that.

I had a work colleague who was a vegetarian. However, she would not eat
salads (unless it came to that) so when choosing a restaraunt to lunch at
it was quite a thing to choose one. Usually we would just go with the same
old place that had an acceptable vegetarian burger. On top of being
vegetarian she was picky!

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-08 03:04:36 UTC

Post by Boracay Bill
This brought to mind a memorable night out with friends (memorable by
definition -- this was in 1985 and I remember it well today). I had
been working in Tel Aviv for about a month and had had dinner a couple
of times at the homes of local co-workers. I invited a group of
co-workers and their wives out for dinner. One co-worker warned me
that his wife was very strict about observing Jewish dietary laws, and
tried to beg off on that account. I wouldn't hear of it. "We'll eat
wherever and whatever she is OK with", sez me.
Come the night, and our group of a dozen or so people spend two or
three hours trooping from one restaurant to another in downtown Tel
Aviv. We would go into a place after making sure that it displayed
proper certification of Kosherness. The wife, the manager, and the chef
would have a spirited discussion in Hebrew, after which we would either
leave or they would go off together to inspect the kitchen. The
kitchen inspection would turn up something unacceptable, and the group
would collect itself and troops off to another place where the process
would be repeated. Two or three hours. Lots of restaurants. Downtown
Tel Aviv. Can't find a restaurant Kosher enough.
We finally did find one -- a Kosher Chinese restaurant located well
away from the downtown area. I kid you not.

A kosher Chinese? In Tel Aviv? LMAO!!

Post by Boracay Bill
As I recall, the killer issue in most cases had to do with the
separation between meat and dairy. The wife had stricter requirements
than usual about that.

-------------------

You were trooping for hours to find the proper restaurant? And nobody felt
like roasting this lady on a stick and eating her? :-))
In a group of people - like in a chain - everything depends on the "weakest
link", in this case, the strictest requirements. At a certain point, it is
getting anti-social.

When In Rome...Piggy

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-08 05:41:18 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You were trooping for hours to find the proper restaurant? And nobody felt
like roasting this lady on a stick and eating her? :-))

I do eat my dates everyonce in a while, I wonder if she tastes good...
I knew somebody that got kicked trying that, but she said it is out of
excitement.

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
In a group of people - like in a chain - everything depends on the "weakest
link", in this case, the strictest requirements. At a certain point, it is
getting anti-social.
When In Rome...Piggy

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-10 01:37:17 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You were trooping for hours to find the proper restaurant? And nobody felt
like roasting this lady on a stick and eating her? :-))

I do eat my dates everyonce in a while, I wonder if she tastes good...

Is there anything on earth that Pinoys would NOT try to eat? ;-)

Stomach Affair Piggy

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-10 02:47:11 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You were trooping for hours to find the proper restaurant? And nobody

felt

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
like roasting this lady on a stick and eating her? :-))

I do eat my dates everyonce in a while, I wonder if she tastes good...

Is there anything on earth that Pinoys would NOT try to eat? ;-)
Stomach Affair Piggy

Good question! I'm omnivorous, if it tastes good, EAT IT.

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-14 00:00:48 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
Is there anything on earth that Pinoys would NOT try to eat? ;-)

Good question! I'm omnivorous, if it tastes good, EAT IT.

Not to forget the motto I learned from kuya JT (after I had asked, "what´s
that?"): "Eat now, ask later!"

Blind Test Piggy

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-14 06:16:43 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
Is there anything on earth that Pinoys would NOT try to eat? ;-)

Good question! I'm omnivorous, if it tastes good, EAT IT.

Not to forget the motto I learned from kuya JT (after I had asked, "what´s
that?"): "Eat now, ask later!"
Blind Test Piggy

But I still like snakes and sturgeon steaks with slivers of ginger!

dr ngo

2005-01-14 13:34:18 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
Is there anything on earth that Pinoys would NOT try to eat? ;-)

Good question! I'm omnivorous, if it tastes good, EAT IT.

Not to forget the motto I learned from kuya JT (after I had asked,
"whatŽs
that?"): "Eat now, ask later!"
Blind Test Piggy

But I still like snakes and sturgeon steaks with slivers of ginger!

Who doesn't?

Omnivorous Pig

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-14 15:41:41 UTC

Post by dr ngo

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
Is there anything on earth that Pinoys would NOT try to eat? ;-)

Good question! I'm omnivorous, if it tastes good, EAT IT.

Not to forget the motto I learned from kuya JT (after I had asked, "what´s
that?"): "Eat now, ask later!"
Blind Test Piggy

But I still like snakes and sturgeon steaks with slivers of ginger!

Who doesn't?
Omnivorous Pig

I had sturgeon steaks without ginger and I didn't like it, Eastern
Europe, so I guess they don't know ginger.

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-17 01:59:11 UTC

Post by dr ngo

Post by tansong tumbaga
But I still like snakes and sturgeon steaks with slivers of ginger!

Who doesn't?
Omnivorous Pig

I had sturgeon steaks without ginger and I didn't like it, Eastern
Europe, so I guess they don't know ginger.

Quite possibly so! Although known, it was not in use in German cooking most
of the time, it was more or less considered as a MEDICINE. However fom the
70ies on there was a certain trend to more exotic cuisine, and now it is no
longer a problem to get it at any bigger supermarket.
Today I use ginger even for pasta dishes. :-)

Increasingly Asianized Piggy

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-17 04:01:53 UTC

Post by dr ngo

Post by tansong tumbaga
But I still like snakes and sturgeon steaks with slivers of ginger!

Who doesn't?
Omnivorous Pig

I had sturgeon steaks without ginger and I didn't like it, Eastern
Europe, so I guess they don't know ginger.

You do that, then you are giving your pasta a pancit flavor!

Sylvia Knörr

2005-01-21 00:06:12 UTC

Post by tansong tumbaga
I had sturgeon steaks without ginger and I didn't like it, Eastern
Europe, so I guess they don't know ginger.

You do that, then you are giving your pasta a pancit flavor!

Yes, and I have those pancit noodles also. Asian cuisine is so great! These
days there´s a special offer for a rice cooker in our local supermarket and
I try to persuade my friend to buy one. Alas she can´t see the use of it,
she keeps on saying, "all my life I prepared rice in a pot on the stove, why
should I need a rice cooker?"
Oh well, it´s hard to get people filipinized! :-)

Secular Missionary Piggy

Congenital Kano

2005-01-14 14:27:17 UTC

Post by tansong tumbaga
But I still like snakes and sturgeon steaks with slivers of ginger!

Cannibal!

Shocked and disgusted Pig

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-14 15:42:17 UTC

Post by Congenital Kano

Post by tansong tumbaga
But I still like snakes and sturgeon steaks with slivers of ginger!

Cannibal!
Shocked and disgusted Pig

Hehehehehe.... ;-)

LeeBat

2005-01-08 06:15:05 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
A kosher Chinese? In Tel Aviv? LMAO!!

There's lots of them in New York City.

LeeBat
but there's lots of Jews also .....

H. David Pembrook

2005-01-09 04:54:15 UTC

Post by Sylvia KnÃ¶rr
You were trooping for hours to find the proper restaurant? And nobody felt
like roasting this lady on a stick and eating her? :-))
In a group of people - like in a chain - everything depends on the "weakest
link", in this case, the strictest requirements. At a certain point, it is
getting anti-social.
When In Rome...Piggy

My thoughts exactly. To hell with her. She can sit outside on a bench while
everybody else eats.

~~~~~
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
When in America, agitate and demonstrate
till Americans stop doing what they do and
do things your way.

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-07 04:51:03 UTC

Patis is way better than salt, what is wrong with you?
There are more fish than dairy back in Pilipinas, vege eat arian food is
widely available, don't worry. But of course you'd be better off in
Ilocos for any vege eat arain food.

Arptro

2005-01-07 06:32:04 UTC

Post by tansong tumbaga
Patis is way better than salt, what is wrong with you?

Believe me, if it wasn't made from fish I'd eat it in a minute. No argument
there.

Post by tansong tumbaga
There are more fish than dairy back in Pilipinas, vege eat arian food is
widely available, don't worry. But of course you'd be better off in Ilocos
for any vege eat arain food.

Thanks for the encouragement.

tansong tumbaga

2005-01-07 07:12:57 UTC

Post by tansong tumbaga
Patis is way better than salt, what is wrong with you?

Believe me, if it wasn't made from fish I'd eat it in a minute. No argument
there.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Just ask for Ilocano cooking without the fish and bagoong.
Carabao cheese is available in the mornings, watch for guys (or gals)
shouting kesong puti!!

H Dickmann

2005-01-07 17:10:10 UTC

My wife comes from a small fishing village, a 6 hour drive away from a big
City. The staple diet is 3 meals a day of Rice, Fish and strange vegetables.
I cant stomach most of the fish they eat. Every two years we go there for an
8 week holiday.
There is a simple solution. 3 months before we go I send 3 big boxes of tin
food to them. I tell everyone that for medical reasons I can't eat fish.
Getting invited, I eat some rice so I don't offend them. It has never been a
problem. What is a problem are drinking sessions. I don't mind having a beer
and a couple of rounds of Tanduay, but I stop when I had enough. That is one
thing they find hard to understand as they keep on drinking.

Mark A Framness

2005-01-07 18:26:42 UTC

never been a problem. What is a problem are drinking sessions. I don't
mind having a beer and a couple of rounds of Tanduay, but I stop when I
had enough. That is one thing they find hard to understand as they keep on
drinking.

I have a hard time with those sessions as well. I remember many week-long
hangover. The group I hung with usually had bottles of rot-gut gin and
would pour a glass and let you at it. When you are done you pour and pass
the glass.

When I was in the Philippines though I joined one or two and they were not
as hardcore as the ones above I describe. They were drinking scotch and I
had a glass or two with them and that was enough to satisfy everyone. The
others were just sitting around drinking beer. In any event I can drink a
fair amount of beer anyway.

Mark A Framness

2005-01-07 18:06:27 UTC

Post by ZLorca
This February I am visiting my girlfriend's family in Nueva Vizcaya.
However, I am a vegetarian who will eat dairy and eggs but not fish, fish
sauce, meat, etc. primarily for ethical reasons. I'm psyched because I
will get to eat great fruit and I love greens, but I worry about people
not understanding that I don't eat meat, food cooked with patis, etc. and
offending them when I decline food or can't eat.

You are in for a challenge. A buddy of mine talks about touring the
Philippines with a vegetarian friend of his. He talks about going to a
Shakeys and ordering a vegetarian pizza. The waitress asked what meat they
wanted on it.

Post by ZLorca
What do you think is the most polite way to decline or explain that I
don't eat meat? The last thing I want to do is seem unappreciative or to
give offense.

I would be very polite, really pile on the salads & fruits available and hit
the deserts hard. Then explain and try to say "salamat na lang, busog na
ako" (thanks, but I am full).

Double Eight

2005-01-08 10:56:12 UTC

I've recently switched to a vegetarian diet recently.

Given the tons of liempo, lechon, sisig, and other meat dishes here in
the Philippines, being a vegetarian really can put the spotlight on
you.

The most polite, at least in terms of effectiveness, way to decline
meat dishes is you tell them that you're doing it for health reasons.
No need to elaborate further that it's the health of the animal
primarily instead of your own.

Enjoy the Philippines!

Double Eight

2005-01-08 11:05:02 UTC

BTW, since you're vegetarian, you MUST try the awesome vegetarian
restaurant chain here in Manila-BODHI restaurant. Great veggie
versions of Pinoy standard fare like kare kare and menudo. Good stuff
and good for you

nestor

2005-01-10 15:12:04 UTC