OT: High School Kids No Longer Shower after Playing Sports or Gym Class?

[zob]

I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...

http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no_w.html#more
---
Zob

[Suzanne D.]

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in front
of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where you're at
your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you can do is
force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My son's P.E. requires special
clothes, which they change out of when the class is done. The odor
generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get by for a few hours
without showering.
--S.

[fmomoon]

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you
can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is done.
The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get by for a
few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no big
thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then as
generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing. Given a
choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very conscious
of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

[zob]

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you
can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is done.
The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get by for a
few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no big
thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then as
generations who came later.

It may be a chicken-or-the-egg thing also. Are kids more ashamed of
their bodies ergo don't want to be seen by others, or is it because
they're not seeing all they body types that are making them
self-consious of their own? Just a thought. As you said, in our
generation we grew up showering after gym class, and after the first
few days or whatever of it, it becomes "normal" and most lose their
self-sonsiousness after a while. Which is a good thing IMO.

Post by fmomoon
I think that this was a good thing. Given a
choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very conscious
of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Shoot, I was a scrawny, tall gangly thing, but I hung around the
showers even when I wasn't showering! :-D
---
Zob

[Suzanne D.]

Post by zob
It may be a chicken-or-the-egg thing also. Are kids more ashamed of
their bodies ergo don't want to be seen by others, or is it because
they're not seeing all they body types that are making them
self-consious of their own?

I don't think it is necessarily "shame," but when your body is starting to
grow in ways you barely understand--you're getting hair in certain places,
you may or may not be getting boobs--you're naturally at the most physically
self-conscious time in your life. This is the age where children naturally
start to cover their bodies.

Post by zob
As you said, in our
generation we grew up showering after gym class, and after the first
few days or whatever of it, it becomes "normal" and most lose their
self-consciousness after a while.

Yet the generation who had to shower together as teens is the same
generation which, on the whole, disapproves the most of nudity. So I don't
really think showering together helped their attitudes toward bodies at all.
(I don't think it necessarily made them MORE prudish, but I certainly don't
think it liberated them the way you want to believe it did.)
--S.

[PeterL]

Post by fmomoon

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...

I don't think that really that weird.  I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age.  That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you
can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!  My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is done.
The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get by for a
few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required.  It was no big
thing.  I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then as
generations who came later.

It may be a chicken-or-the-egg thing also.  Are kids more ashamed of
their bodies ergo don't want to be seen by others, or is it because
they're not seeing all they body types that are making them
self-consious of their own?  Just a thought.  As you said, in our
generation we grew up showering after gym class, and after the first
few days or whatever of it, it becomes "normal" and most lose their
self-sonsiousness after a while.  Which is a good thing IMO.  

Post by fmomoon
I think that this was a good thing.  Given a
choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very conscious
of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Shoot, I was a scrawny, tall gangly thing, but I hung around the
showers even when I wasn't showering!   :-D
---
Zob-

That's too much information.

[SLGreg]

Post by PeterL

Post by fmomoon

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...

I don't think that really that weird.  I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age.  That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you
can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!  My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is done.
The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get by for a
few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required.  It was no big
thing.  I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then as
generations who came later.

It may be a chicken-or-the-egg thing also.  Are kids more ashamed of
their bodies ergo don't want to be seen by others, or is it because
they're not seeing all they body types that are making them
self-consious of their own?  Just a thought.  As you said, in our
generation we grew up showering after gym class, and after the first
few days or whatever of it, it becomes "normal" and most lose their
self-sonsiousness after a while.  Which is a good thing IMO.  

Post by fmomoon
I think that this was a good thing.  Given a
choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very conscious
of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Shoot, I was a scrawny, tall gangly thing, but I hung around the
showers even when I wasn't showering!   :-D
---
Zob-

That's too much information.

Around the same time Vandar was caught, sniffing the cheerleader
outfits in the next room.

<duck/run/hide>

-greg

[Vandar]

Post by SLGreg

Post by PeterL

Post by zob

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you
can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is done.
The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get by for a
few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no big
thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then as
generations who came later.

It may be a chicken-or-the-egg thing also. Are kids more ashamed of
their bodies ergo don't want to be seen by others, or is it because
they're not seeing all they body types that are making them
self-consious of their own? Just a thought. As you said, in our
generation we grew up showering after gym class, and after the first
few days or whatever of it, it becomes "normal" and most lose their
self-sonsiousness after a while. Which is a good thing IMO.

Post by fmomoon
I think that this was a good thing. Given a
choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very conscious
of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Shoot, I was a scrawny, tall gangly thing, but I hung around the
showers even when I wasn't showering! :-D
---
Zob-

That's too much information.

Around the same time Vandar was caught, sniffing the cheerleader
outfits in the next room.
<duck/run/hide>

I was a science project! Honest!

[fmomoon]

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg

Post by PeterL

Post by zob

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you
can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is done.
The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get by for a
few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no big
thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then as
generations who came later.

It may be a chicken-or-the-egg thing also. Are kids more ashamed of
their bodies ergo don't want to be seen by others, or is it because
they're not seeing all they body types that are making them
self-consious of their own? Just a thought. As you said, in our
generation we grew up showering after gym class, and after the first
few days or whatever of it, it becomes "normal" and most lose their
self-sonsiousness after a while. Which is a good thing IMO.

Post by fmomoon
I think that this was a good thing. Given a
choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very conscious
of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Shoot, I was a scrawny, tall gangly thing, but I hung around the
showers even when I wasn't showering! :-D
---
Zob-

That's too much information.

Around the same time Vandar was caught, sniffing the cheerleader
outfits in the next room.
<duck/run/hide>

I was a science project! Honest!

Yes, honey, you were a science project!!!! ROTFLMHO! Best typo of the
year...

[zob]

Post by fmomoon

Post by Vandar
I was a science project! Honest!

Yes, honey, you were a science project!!!! ROTFLMHO! Best typo of the
year...

I don't know; I think it might come in second to this Thanatos post
that appears elsewhere in this thread. He was refuting somebody's
statement that kids at high school age are too self-conjsious about
their bodies and shoudln't be made to take showers together:

Quote Thanatos:
" It teaches you how to suck it and do stuff that you don't want to
do. "

I'm pretty sure he meant to say, "suck it up" rather than the rather
strong argument he unintentionally made for the other side of the
debate ...

Now that right there was a bad typo, I don't care who y'are! Heh.
---
Zob

[Elton Dumont]

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg

Post by PeterL

Post by zob

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you
can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is done.
The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get by for a
few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no big
thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then as
generations who came later.

It may be a chicken-or-the-egg thing also. Are kids more ashamed of
their bodies ergo don't want to be seen by others, or is it because
they're not seeing all they body types that are making them
self-consious of their own? Just a thought. As you said, in our
generation we grew up showering after gym class, and after the first
few days or whatever of it, it becomes "normal" and most lose their
self-sonsiousness after a while. Which is a good thing IMO.

Post by fmomoon
I think that this was a good thing. Given a
choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very conscious
of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Shoot, I was a scrawny, tall gangly thing, but I hung around the
showers even when I wasn't showering! :-D
---
Zob-

That's too much information.

Around the same time Vandar was caught, sniffing the cheerleader
outfits in the next room.
<duck/run/hide>

I was a science project! Honest!

I aced that course too.

Elton

[Bob Rudd]

Post by SLGreg

Post by PeterL

Post by fmomoon

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...

I don't think that really that weird.  I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age.  That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you
can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!  My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is done.
The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get by for a
few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required.  It was no big
thing.  I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then as
generations who came later.

It may be a chicken-or-the-egg thing also.  Are kids more ashamed of
their bodies ergo don't want to be seen by others, or is it because
they're not seeing all they body types that are making them
self-consious of their own?  Just a thought.  As you said, in our
generation we grew up showering after gym class, and after the first
few days or whatever of it, it becomes "normal" and most lose their
self-sonsiousness after a while.  Which is a good thing IMO.  

Post by fmomoon
I think that this was a good thing.  Given a
choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very conscious
of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Shoot, I was a scrawny, tall gangly thing, but I hung around the
showers even when I wasn't showering!   :-D
---
Zob-

That's too much information.

Around the same time Vandar was caught, sniffing the cheerleader
outfits in the next room.
<duck/run/hide>
-greg

I thought for a moment there you were going to say he was caught wearing
them.

[zob]

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by SLGreg
Around the same time Vandar was caught, sniffing the cheerleader
outfits in the next room.
-greg

I thought for a moment there you were going to say he was caught wearing
them.

Only he and God know for sure.
---
Zob

[topcat]

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing
you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is
done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get by
for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then as
generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing. Given a
choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very conscious
of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.
--

I was more worried about my locker being robbed while I was in the shower,
than having to take a shower.

TC

[fmomoon]

Post by topcat

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing
you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is
done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get
by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.
--

I was more worried about my locker being robbed while I was in the shower,
than having to take a shower.
TC

Seriously, that is a horrible problem right now. Some of my students have
taken to leaving valuables in my office before they go to PE. Of course, I
ask them whether or not they actually "locked" their locker and I tend to
get sheepish looks, but it is a significant issue.

[zob]

Post by fmomoon

Post by topcat
I was more worried about my locker being robbed while I was in the shower,
than having to take a shower.
TC

Seriously, that is a horrible problem right now. Some of my students have
taken to leaving valuables in my office before they go to PE.

So how much loot have you gotten so far?
---
Zob

[fmomoon]

Post by zob

Post by fmomoon

Post by topcat
I was more worried about my locker being robbed while I was in the shower,
than having to take a shower.
TC

Seriously, that is a horrible problem right now. Some of my students have
taken to leaving valuables in my office before they go to PE.

So how much loot have you gotten so far?
---
Zob

You mean, my tip? Hey, times are hard! :)

[Vandar]

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

[Bob Rudd]

Post by Vandar
every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

That's a point that I've never considered, Vandar. At first thought, I
find myself agreeing with you for that reason alone. YouTube/Facebook
"cute" stuff that crosses way over the line but easily and readily
considered by juveniles as appropriate (and with no guilt associated
with either YouTube/Facebook as merely being the vehicles for the
improper actions).

[Thanatos]

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

[Vandar]

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

[zob]

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

If that happens, it needs to be dealt with like any other criminal
activity.

A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.
---
Zob

[Vandar]

Post by zob

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

If that happens, it needs to be dealt with like any other criminal
activity.

Meanwhile, the devastated teenager who was forced to take a shower in
school hangs herself in her closet after school.

I always told my kid: Under NO circumstances are you to ever shower or
change clothes at school.

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in the
back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them to be
naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to worry
about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted for
surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

[b***@gmail.com]

Post by Vandar

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in the
back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them to be
naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to worry
about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted for
surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

[SLGreg]

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Vandar

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in the
back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them to be
naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to worry
about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted for
surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

-greg

[Vandar]

Post by SLGreg

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Vandar

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in the
back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them to be
naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to worry
about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted for
surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

[zob]

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Vandar

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in the
back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them to be
naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to worry
about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted for
surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

Yeah, but he liked it. That's different.
---
Zob

[SLGreg]

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg
I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

With what? Those cameras on tri-pods, where you put the black hood
over your head and held the flash thingee?

-greg

[Vandar]

Post by SLGreg

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg
I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

With what? Those cameras on tri-pods, where you put the black hood
over your head and held the flash thingee?

I thought about it after I posted. I was picturing a prehistoric bird
chiseling your image on a stone slab, a la the Flintstones.

[SLGreg]

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg
I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

With what? Those cameras on tri-pods, where you put the black hood
over your head and held the flash thingee?

I thought about it after I posted. I was picturing a prehistoric bird
chiseling your image on a stone slab, a la the Flintstones.

ROTFL. That one woke up Chuy.

-greg

[Suzanne D.]

Post by SLGreg

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg
I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

With what? Those cameras on tri-pods, where you put the black hood
over your head and held the flash thingee?

Maybe someone was sketching you with a twig on a clay slab.
--S.

[Ron Capik]

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Vandar

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in
the back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them
to be naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to
worry about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted
for surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

Back when I was in school the guys not showering got
to run laps.


Later...

Ron Capik
--

[Salad]

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Vandar

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in
the back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them
to be naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to
worry about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted
for surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

I went to HS in MN and WI, late 60s. Our JR high had a swimming pool
and all boys were nude in PE when we swam. The girls did wear bathing
suits, not the boys (of course, silly, boys and girls had separate
classes). The jets that circulated the water gave a good tickle. When
I moved to WI in 12th grade, 3 hundred miles away, they had a pool as
well. The males all swam nude. I have no idea if that was the norm in
those days, but in two of the schools I attended, in different states,
it was my experience that it was the norm.

[SLGreg]

Post by Salad

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Vandar

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in
the back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them
to be naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to
worry about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted
for surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

I went to HS in MN and WI, late 60s. Our JR high had a swimming pool
and all boys were nude in PE when we swam. The girls did wear bathing
suits, not the boys (of course, silly, boys and girls had separate
classes). The jets that circulated the water gave a good tickle. When
I moved to WI in 12th grade, 3 hundred miles away, they had a pool as
well. The males all swam nude. I have no idea if that was the norm in
those days, but in two of the schools I attended, in different states,
it was my experience that it was the norm.

When someone would find a quarry or lake nearby, we all swam nude,
too, girls included. Skinny dipping! I remember hearing that of male
HS swimming, too, but I somehow missed that part! Damn!

-greg

[Salad]

Post by SLGreg

Post by Salad

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Vandar

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in
the back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them
to be naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to
worry about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted
for surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

I went to HS in MN and WI, late 60s. Our JR high had a swimming pool
and all boys were nude in PE when we swam. The girls did wear bathing
suits, not the boys (of course, silly, boys and girls had separate
classes). The jets that circulated the water gave a good tickle. When
I moved to WI in 12th grade, 3 hundred miles away, they had a pool as
well. The males all swam nude. I have no idea if that was the norm in
those days, but in two of the schools I attended, in different states,
it was my experience that it was the norm.

When someone would find a quarry or lake nearby, we all swam nude,
too, girls included. Skinny dipping! I remember hearing that of male
HS swimming, too, but I somehow missed that part! Damn!
-greg

The first black student in my school occurred when I was in 9th grade.
I suppose there are more blacks in that area now, but they certainly
weren't common then. So in PE we wondered if we whiteys measured up.
Curiousity satisfied, we moved on with life.

I've wondered how it would be to be the only person different than the
rest of a group's color. Being the only black person in a sea of white
kids, or visa versa. Or like a black in the Republican party. It's
gotta be strange.

[fmomoon]

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Vandar

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in
the back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them
to be naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to
worry about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted
for surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

I went to HS in MN and WI, late 60s. Our JR high had a swimming pool and
all boys were nude in PE when we swam. The girls did wear bathing suits,
not the boys (of course, silly, boys and girls had separate classes). The
jets that circulated the water gave a good tickle. When I moved to WI in
12th grade, 3 hundred miles away, they had a pool as well. The males all
swam nude. I have no idea if that was the norm in those days, but in two
of the schools I attended, in different states, it was my experience that
it was the norm.

That sure wasn't the thing at my high school. Don't ask how I know, except
to say that I was an office assistant one year and had to deliver
messages....okay, I volunteered.

[zob]

Post by Salad

Post by Vandar

Post by SLGreg

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Vandar

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in
the back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them
to be naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to
worry about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted
for surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.

Those were the guys taking pictures of you. :)

I went to HS in MN and WI, late 60s. Our JR high had a swimming pool
and all boys were nude in PE when we swam. The girls did wear bathing
suits, not the boys (of course, silly, boys and girls had separate
classes). The jets that circulated the water gave a good tickle. When
I moved to WI in 12th grade, 3 hundred miles away, they had a pool as
well. The males all swam nude. I have no idea if that was the norm in
those days, but in two of the schools I attended, in different states,
it was my experience that it was the norm.

I think you probably got your memories confused with the videos you've
been watching: http://tinyurl.com/n7vlgy
---
Zob

[Cheri]

Post by SLGreg

Post by b***@gmail.com
Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

I agree. I remember a few guys NOT taking showers, too. No biggee, it
was their prerogative I always thought.
-greg

Where my son went to high school, they could flunk you for P.E. for not
taking showers, and without the P.E. no graduation. It was the only time I
went head to head with an educator (who was later arrested for beating his
wife and holding a gun on her) so I know he was the bullying bastard I
thought he was. No way was he going to stop my son from graduating over
showers in his senior year, but it was like the coach was trying to make it
a personal mission or something. It got quite nasty before it got better,
but they did finally put him in last period P.E. where he came home
afterward, no showers.

I will add that my son was very small in stature during high school, and
didn't grow tall until after he joined the army where I imagine he showered
with others often, so I believe it was the coach in high school that caused
the problem.

Cheri

[zob]

Post by Cheri
Where my son went to high school, they could flunk you for P.E. for not
taking showers,

I do know that years ago the PE teachers were responsible for teaching
personal hygiene as well as exercise; he was probably doing his job
teaching the kids that they need to take showers after exercising in
order to be socially acceptable later on in life. Unfortunately
personal hygiene doesn't seem to be taught in a lot of homes, and as
with many other things its a shame the subject has/had to be left to a
teacher to address.
---
Zob

[Bob Rudd]

In article <h6c2i5$cfq$***@news.albasani.net>, ***@gmail.com
says...

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Vandar

Post by zob
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.

But we don't have a policy *requiring* teenage girls to be naked in the
back seat of a car. Some schools DO have a policy requiring them to be
naked at school. And it isn't just other students they have to worry
about. There are even teachers out there who have been busted for
surreptitiously recording kids in compromising situations.

Right. There should never be a policy mandating showers. There should be
no policy abolishing showers either, though. Those who want to take showers
should be able to take showers after P.E.

For that matter, we had a high school policy that if you were playing a
JV or Varsity sport, you were excused from gym during the season and
given a study hall. After sports seasons, I recall any number of guys
that were uncomfortable taking showers and didn't do so. Nothing
happened to them, although several of them had not discovered deodorant
at 15-16 and staying away from downwind of them was essential the rest
of the day.

[Suzanne D.]

Post by Vandar
I always told my kid: Under NO circumstances are you to ever shower or
change clothes at school.

I would leave it to my kid, personally, making sure he first understood the
risks. It is possible to change clothes without having to reveal much, and
if my son doesn't mind taking a shower in front of everyone, I have no
objection to him doing it. But it definitely should be his choice. If his
school made him strip in front of his peers, and he didn't want to do that,
I'd remove him from school. This is THE most vulnerable and psychologically
delicate time in a human's life. I am not going to traumatize any of my
kids just because they need to suck it up and learn to follow rules. There
are plenty of other ways to teach them to follow rules without forcing them
to be naked in front of their friends, especially if it is not necessary.
--S.

[PeterL]

Post by zob

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird.  I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age.  That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!  My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required.  It was no
big thing.  I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later.  I think that this was a good thing.  
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

If that happens, it needs to be dealt with like any other criminal
activity.  
A teenage girl might be raped in the back seat of a car, but the
solution isn't to stop teenagers from getting into cars.
---
Zob-

However, that's a good policy regardless.

[Bob Rudd]

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard. It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.

[SLGreg]

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard. It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.

If something is so important that a parent or guardian needs to speak
with the child, it should be done so through contacting the main
office. It has nothing whatsoever to do with ring verses vibrate.

Cellphones for student/student contact are wholly unnecessary on K-12
campuses, distracting from a teacher's perspective, and should, IMO,
be banned.

-greg

[Vandar]

Post by SLGreg

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard. It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.

If something is so important that a parent or guardian needs to speak
with the child, it should be done so through contacting the main
office. It has nothing whatsoever to do with ring verses vibrate.

I agree. Even knowing my kid had her phone with her, any time I needed
to contact her about something, I called the main office and left a message.

[Bob Rudd]

Post by SLGreg

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard. It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.

If something is so important that a parent or guardian needs to speak
with the child, it should be done so through contacting the main
office. It has nothing whatsoever to do with ring verses vibrate.

Well.....I see your point greg, though experience has taught us that
there are times when that process, in the past, would break down and it
was necessary or urgent for a message to get through "now"

Post by SLGreg
Cellphones for student/student contact are wholly unnecessary on K-12
campuses, distracting from a teacher's perspective, and should, IMO,
be banned.
-greg

I'll agree up to high school. If the privilege is misused, it can be
handled on a student by student basis. OTOH, if a parent knows a
child's class schedule, either a call then or a text asking him/her to
call at the break, while on "quiet vibrate" can cut through the red tape
and middleman when the need is important and/or urgent.

[SLGreg]

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by SLGreg

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard. It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.

If something is so important that a parent or guardian needs to speak
with the child, it should be done so through contacting the main
office. It has nothing whatsoever to do with ring verses vibrate.

Well.....I see your point greg, though experience has taught us that
there are times when that process, in the past, would break down and it
was necessary or urgent for a message to get through "now"

Post by SLGreg
Cellphones for student/student contact are wholly unnecessary on K-12
campuses, distracting from a teacher's perspective, and should, IMO,
be banned.
-greg

I'll agree up to high school.

High school is precisely where the preponderance of misuse would
occur.

-greg

[Bob Rudd]

Post by SLGreg

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by SLGreg

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard. It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.

If something is so important that a parent or guardian needs to speak
with the child, it should be done so through contacting the main
office. It has nothing whatsoever to do with ring verses vibrate.

Well.....I see your point greg, though experience has taught us that
there are times when that process, in the past, would break down and it
was necessary or urgent for a message to get through "now"

Post by SLGreg
Cellphones for student/student contact are wholly unnecessary on K-12
campuses, distracting from a teacher's perspective, and should, IMO,
be banned.
-greg

I'll agree up to high school.

High school is precisely where the preponderance of misuse would
occur.
-greg

No doubt and I agree with you, greg. I'm just saying that with parents
using good judgement and kids only using it when contacted by a parent,
there's are occasional times when speaking directly and not waiting are
essential. OTOH, if the kid is just chatting away or texting in class
to a buddy, sure, confiscate the phone for the day or until a parent
picks it up.

We're about 95 percent in agreement I'd say on this one, greg. The 5
percent difference can involve pretty important/serious situations.

[Suzanne D.]

Post by SLGreg
High school is precisely where the preponderance of misuse would
occur.

There is absolutely no reason a child at school (any age) would need a cell
phone, even if they didn't "misuse" it. They are already with their
friends! Any out-of-town friends can simply be called after school, and for
emergencies the parents can call the office. WHY would a person need a
phone at school?
--S.

[Bigolhomo]

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:02:32 -0600, "Suzanne D."

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by SLGreg
High school is precisely where the preponderance of misuse would
occur.

There is absolutely no reason a child at school (any age) would need a cell
phone, even if they didn't "misuse" it. They are already with their
friends! Any out-of-town friends can simply be called after school, and for
emergencies the parents can call the office. WHY would a person need a
phone at school?
--S.

Because they exist, so they're a supposed necessity. How we ever
managed to get through high school without them is beyond me.

[Bob Rudd]

In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@none.com
says...

Post by Bigolhomo
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:02:32 -0600, "Suzanne D."

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by SLGreg
High school is precisely where the preponderance of misuse would
occur.

There is absolutely no reason a child at school (any age) would need a cell
phone, even if they didn't "misuse" it. They are already with their
friends! Any out-of-town friends can simply be called after school, and for
emergencies the parents can call the office. WHY would a person need a
phone at school?
--S.

Because they exist, so they're a supposed necessity. How we ever
managed to get through high school without them is beyond me.

Times change though BOH. Our parents got to school without buses and
many had one room classrooms. AV equipment has changed. So many things
have done so. Is this that much different?

[Thanatos]

Post by Bob Rudd
says...

Post by Bigolhomo
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:02:32 -0600, "Suzanne D."

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by SLGreg
High school is precisely where the preponderance of misuse would
occur.

There is absolutely no reason a child at school (any age) would need a cell
phone, even if they didn't "misuse" it. They are already with their
friends! Any out-of-town friends can simply be called after school, and for
emergencies the parents can call the office. WHY would a person need a
phone at school?
--S.

Because they exist, so they're a supposed necessity. How we ever
managed to get through high school without them is beyond me.

Times change though BOH. Our parents got to school without buses and
many had one room classrooms. AV equipment has changed. So many things
have done so. Is this that much different?

Yes, because school buses, multiple classrooms and better AV equipment
enhance the learning process. Cell phones do not.

[zob]

Post by Bob Rudd
says...

Post by Bigolhomo
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:02:32 -0600, "Suzanne D."

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by SLGreg
High school is precisely where the preponderance of misuse would
occur.

There is absolutely no reason a child at school (any age) would need a cell
phone, even if they didn't "misuse" it. They are already with their
friends! Any out-of-town friends can simply be called after school, and for
emergencies the parents can call the office. WHY would a person need a
phone at school?
--S.

Because they exist, so they're a supposed necessity. How we ever
managed to get through high school without them is beyond me.

Times change though BOH. Our parents got to school without buses and
many had one room classrooms. AV equipment has changed. So many things
have done so. Is this that much different?

What's different is that getting to school without a bus is not the
same as having an exterior distraction from learning while in the
school. Unless something has direct bearing on the learning process,
it has no business being in a school classroom IMO.
---
Zob

[Suzanne D.]

Post by Bigolhomo
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:02:32 -0600, "Suzanne D."

WHY would a person need a

Post by Bigolhomo

Post by Suzanne D.
phone at school?
--S.

Because they exist, so they're a supposed necessity. How we ever
managed to get through high school without them is beyond me.

I laugh when people are incredulous that we don't have cell phones. "How
will you know if someone wants to talk to you?" Um...they'll call me on the
regular phone! "But what if you are out and someone calls?" They'll leave
a message, or call back later. "But what if you are out and someone needs
to get in touch with you?" There are so few instances where that would be
necessary. My husband and I have no problems with letting each other know
of our plans before either of us goes anywhere, so we don't need additional
communication. I suppose people think cell phones are necessary because
sometimes you are shopping and need someone's help in deciding what to get.
I have honestly, no joke, heard people talking on cell phones while
shopping, saying things like, "There are two brands of sour cream
here...which should I get?" Actually having a conversation about which
brand of sour cream to buy. Oh my god, just make a choice on your own. If
for some reason it's the wrong choice, then just buy a different brand next
time.
--S.

[Thanatos]

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by Bigolhomo
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:02:32 -0600, "Suzanne D."

WHY would a person need a

Post by Bigolhomo

Post by Suzanne D.
phone at school?
--S.

Because they exist, so they're a supposed necessity. How we ever
managed to get through high school without them is beyond me.

I laugh when people are incredulous that we don't have cell phones. "How
will you know if someone wants to talk to you?" Um...they'll call me on the
regular phone! "But what if you are out and someone calls?" They'll leave
a message, or call back later. "But what if you are out and someone needs
to get in touch with you?"

I'd respond, "Define 'need'." In 99.9999% of cases, the person who
"needs" to get in touch with me, actually doesn't "need" to do so at
all. They just *want* to get in touch with me and they assume that if
they want it, then they need it.

Such is rarely the case.

And if I go out without my phone, that means *I* don't *want* to be
contacted by anyone.

[zob]

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by SLGreg

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard. It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.

If something is so important that a parent or guardian needs to speak
with the child, it should be done so through contacting the main
office. It has nothing whatsoever to do with ring verses vibrate.

Well.....I see your point greg, though experience has taught us that
there are times when that process, in the past, would break down and it
was necessary or urgent for a message to get through "now"

Post by SLGreg
Cellphones for student/student contact are wholly unnecessary on K-12
campuses, distracting from a teacher's perspective, and should, IMO,
be banned.
-greg

I'll agree up to high school. If the privilege is misused, it can be
handled on a student by student basis. OTOH, if a parent knows a
child's class schedule, either a call then or a text asking him/her to
call at the break, while on "quiet vibrate" can cut through the red tape
and middleman when the need is important and/or urgent.

If, and an emphasis is on if, cell phones are allowed in school, they
should be kept completely shut off or left in lockers during all
classes. They can be checked for messages during breaks. Amreicans
are ruing the decline in our educational system and the declining
grades of our students and their reduced learning curve. This is one
reason. Whether it rings or vibrates, for a student to check a cell
phone in the middle of an algebra lesson is to give them one more
wrong answer on their next exam. Many people want to blame the
government for our declining school effectiveness ... this is one
thing that they as parents can take responsibility for and change IMO.
---
Zob

[Bob Rudd]

In article <***@4ax.com>, zob <zobva1
@ gmail.com> says...

Post by zob

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by SLGreg

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard. It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.

If something is so important that a parent or guardian needs to speak
with the child, it should be done so through contacting the main
office. It has nothing whatsoever to do with ring verses vibrate.

Well.....I see your point greg, though experience has taught us that
there are times when that process, in the past, would break down and it
was necessary or urgent for a message to get through "now"

Post by SLGreg
Cellphones for student/student contact are wholly unnecessary on K-12
campuses, distracting from a teacher's perspective, and should, IMO,
be banned.
-greg

I'll agree up to high school. If the privilege is misused, it can be
handled on a student by student basis. OTOH, if a parent knows a
child's class schedule, either a call then or a text asking him/her to
call at the break, while on "quiet vibrate" can cut through the red tape
and middleman when the need is important and/or urgent.

If, and an emphasis is on if, cell phones are allowed in school, they
should be kept completely shut off or left in lockers during all
classes. They can be checked for messages during breaks. Amreicans
are ruing the decline in our educational system and the declining
grades of our students and their reduced learning curve. This is one
reason. Whether it rings or vibrates, for a student to check a cell
phone in the middle of an algebra lesson is to give them one more
wrong answer on their next exam. Many people want to blame the
government for our declining school effectiveness ... this is one
thing that they as parents can take responsibility for and change IMO.
---
Zob

I see and understand your point zob. However, one of our family year's
ago was undergoing chemo at the time. The kids wanted to know how each
session was going/being handled by the family member, as it
happened/finished. That small text message "doing A-ok, or really
tired" etc. meant a lot to them, rather than wait for a break. Same
thing when an emergency occurred and they needed to get out asap. The
teachers were aware of the situation and a simple picking up of books
and nod that they were leaving as a result of the test message, was all
that was required and I had already called the school office to let them
know right after the text message.

[SLGreg]

Post by Bob Rudd
@ gmail.com> says...

Post by zob

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by SLGreg

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard. It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.

If something is so important that a parent or guardian needs to speak
with the child, it should be done so through contacting the main
office. It has nothing whatsoever to do with ring verses vibrate.

Well.....I see your point greg, though experience has taught us that
there are times when that process, in the past, would break down and it
was necessary or urgent for a message to get through "now"

Post by SLGreg
Cellphones for student/student contact are wholly unnecessary on K-12
campuses, distracting from a teacher's perspective, and should, IMO,
be banned.
-greg

I'll agree up to high school. If the privilege is misused, it can be
handled on a student by student basis. OTOH, if a parent knows a
child's class schedule, either a call then or a text asking him/her to
call at the break, while on "quiet vibrate" can cut through the red tape
and middleman when the need is important and/or urgent.

If, and an emphasis is on if, cell phones are allowed in school, they
should be kept completely shut off or left in lockers during all
classes. They can be checked for messages during breaks. Amreicans
are ruing the decline in our educational system and the declining
grades of our students and their reduced learning curve. This is one
reason. Whether it rings or vibrates, for a student to check a cell
phone in the middle of an algebra lesson is to give them one more
wrong answer on their next exam. Many people want to blame the
government for our declining school effectiveness ... this is one
thing that they as parents can take responsibility for and change IMO.
---
Zob

I see and understand your point zob. However, one of our family year's
ago was undergoing chemo at the time. The kids wanted to know how each
session was going/being handled by the family member, as it
happened/finished. That small text message "doing A-ok, or really
tired" etc. meant a lot to them, rather than wait for a break. Same
thing when an emergency occurred and they needed to get out asap. The
teachers were aware of the situation and a simple picking up of books
and nod that they were leaving as a result of the test message, was all
that was required and I had already called the school office to let them
know right after the text message.

As Salad said, Pandora's box is already open on kids having them. If
I were the Principal, you can bet I'd be a REAL hard ass about their
usage, though.

Showers after P.E. optional, but available.

-greg

[Suzanne D.]

Post by zob
Amreicans
are ruing the decline in our educational system and the declining
grades of our students and their reduced learning curve. This is one
reason. Whether it rings or vibrates, for a student to check a cell
phone in the middle of an algebra lesson is to give them one more
wrong answer on their next exam.

My son once narked on a couple of his classmates whom he saw texting during
class. The teacher (who encouraged tattling) noted that these were some of
the lowest-scoring students in class. School is for learning.
Socialization can come afterward.
--S.

[Salad]

Post by SLGreg

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard. It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.

If something is so important that a parent or guardian needs to speak
with the child, it should be done so through contacting the main
office. It has nothing whatsoever to do with ring verses vibrate.
Cellphones for student/student contact are wholly unnecessary on K-12
campuses, distracting from a teacher's perspective, and should, IMO,
be banned.
-greg

Somehow I was able to make it thru high school with out a cell phone.
That may be because they weren't invented at that time. If a parent
needed to talk to their kid, they called the office and the student was
paged.

Like Pandora's Box, it's now too late.

I wonder if kids that posted a nude pic of a classmate on the net could
be arrested as a pedophiles. It wouldn't do much as their records would
be expunged when they hit 18, so there'd have to be more punishment.
Expulsion is a start but not sufficient. Due to the economy, there was
a change in juvenile cases. Kids would get leg bracelets used to track
them. Cost is about $15/day. Typical time served is 30 days with the
bracelet up to 3 months. Before, the state would shoulder the cost.
Now the parents are billed for it. So maybe a financial hit is also
required.

I would not have considered photoing some classmate, but in this day and
age it would be entirely expected by some kids thinking they're being cute.

[Cheri]

Post by SLGreg

Post by Bob Rudd
Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard. It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.

If something is so important that a parent or guardian needs to speak
with the child, it should be done so through contacting the main
office. It has nothing whatsoever to do with ring verses vibrate.
Cellphones for student/student contact are wholly unnecessary on K-12
campuses, distracting from a teacher's perspective, and should, IMO,
be banned.
-greg

Not that I'm old or anything ;-) BUT it's amazing that our parents could
always reach us by having a runner take a note to the teacher to say we were
wanted in the office, and we could only hope we were in school when the note
came.

Cheri

[PeterL]

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird.  I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age.  That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!  My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required.  It was no
big thing.  I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later.  I think that this was a good thing.  
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard.  It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.
--

It dose not stop someone from photographing or video taping someone
using a cell then.

[Bob Rudd]

Post by PeterL

Post by Bob Rudd

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird.  I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age.  That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!  My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required.  It was no
big thing.  I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later.  I think that this was a good thing.  
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours. I know my kid's high school did.
That said, a school policy banning cell phone use during school hours
does not mean the kids won't use their cell phones during school hours.
However, banning showers during school hours will ensure that some 15
year old girl won't have candid nude pics of herself posted all over the
internet and distributed among her classmates.

Our kids schools allowed cell phones but they had to be on vibrate and
have a vibration that wasn't, in itself, a de facto ring tone, loud
enough to be heard.  It's not often, but there are times when a call
(between classes) or a text message during a class might have, and was,
necessary.
--

It dose not stop someone from photographing or video taping someone
using a cell then.

No, but they don't shower etc.

[Thanatos]

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_scho
o
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

If I'm not mistaken, many schools do have a policy banning cell phone
use during class hours.

I wouldn't just ban their use. I'd ban their possession on school
grounds.

I made it through junior high and high school just fine without one. So
can they.

[zob]

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

Great minds and all that ...

I said the same thing.
---
Zob

[Bob Rudd]

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_schoo
l_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

A good point as well, Thanatos.

[fmomoon]

Post by Thanatos

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon
I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

No, cell phones in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

I can't speak for school districts across the nation, but most schools I
know have a no cell phone policy. Not that the policy actually stops
anything, but there are rules...

[zob]

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

Nah, cell phones in school should be abolished, not showers after
sports!
---
Zob

[SLGreg]

Post by zob

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

Nah, cell phones in school should be abolished, not showers after
sports!
---
Zob

I had no idea showers were becoming abolished since the 90's!!

I remember well my 14 year old, Freshman dread, with the thought of
showering with all those hairy, and, ummm...developed, 18 y/o Seniors!
After a day or two, being nude was like the great equalizer, your
prurient curiosity was satisfied and it was no big deal. Not one bit.

Actually, in hindsight, I think it was a healthy experience, not only
physically (for the sweat factor), but psychologically, as well. I
understand about the cellphone thing, though. I agree, there is no
reason for a kid to have a phone on campus (but you know kids - they'd
sneak them on campus and take blackmail nudes anyway).

-greg

[PeterL]

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...

I don't think that really that weird.  I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age.  That's the point in your life
where you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST
thing you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!  My
son's P.E. requires special clothes, which they change out of when the
class is done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so
they can get by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required.  It was no
big thing.  I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later.  I think that this was a good thing.  
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.-

Excellent point.

[fmomoon]

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon
I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

This is the most sensible argument against showering in PE I've heard. I
don't have the answer to this one.

[Thanatos]

Post by fmomoon

Post by Vandar

Post by fmomoon
I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.

Don't forget, back in your day every kid didn't have cell phones with
cameras either.
Showering in school should be abolished for that reason alone.

This is the most sensible argument against showering in PE
I've heard. I don't have the answer to this one.

I do. Get rid of the cell phones in school.

[Suzy]

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing
you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is
done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get by
for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then as
generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing. Given a
choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very conscious
of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.
--
Moni
I am a Nobody.
Nobody is Perfect.
Therefore I am Perfect.

I dunno Moni. I am of that generation. We did not shower after PE. I
don't know about the boys, but the girls didn't. Not only would we rather
die than strip naked in front of others, but we did not have time. We
barely had time to change out of our gym suits back into our regular clothes
before the bell rang. We had plenty of showers, but nobody used them.

I also don't know if the boys showered after playing or practicing sports.
I do know one thing, the boys locker room door was across the hall from the
band room and chorus room doors. When that door opened, the stench could
knock down an elephant! When we saw that door begin to open, we made a run
for it!

[fmomoon]

Post by Suzy

Post by fmomoon

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in
front of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where
you're at your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing
you can do is force a kid to reveal it to everyone else! My son's P.E.
requires special clothes, which they change out of when the class is
done. The odor generally sticks to the clothes anyway, so they can get
by for a few hours without showering.
--S.

I realize that zob and I are a bit older than you are, Suzanne, but back
when we were in high school, showering after PE was required. It was no
big thing. I suppose that maybe we weren't as body conscious back then
as generations who came later. I think that this was a good thing.
Given a choice (at least for a girl) between stinking (which I was very
conscious of) and showing in front of other girls, yeah, I'd shower.
--
Moni
I am a Nobody.
Nobody is Perfect.
Therefore I am Perfect.

I dunno Moni. I am of that generation. We did not shower after PE. I
don't know about the boys, but the girls didn't. Not only would we rather
die than strip naked in front of others, but we did not have time. We
barely had time to change out of our gym suits back into our regular
clothes before the bell rang. We had plenty of showers, but nobody used
them.
I also don't know if the boys showered after playing or practicing sports.
I do know one thing, the boys locker room door was across the hall from
the band room and chorus room doors. When that door opened, the stench
could knock down an elephant! When we saw that door begin to open, we
made a run for it!
--
Susie
Time flies when you are having rum!

Ah, yes, the aroma of teenage boys! :) Our band and choir rooms were quite
a distance away from the boys' gym, so we never got quite that strong a
whiff, but I believe you!

[Thanatos]

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_
no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in front
of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where you're at
your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you can do is
force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!

It teaches you how to suck it and do stuff that you don't want to do. We
seem to be eliminating all of life's lessons from schools these days
because we're so worried about little Johnny and Jenny's self esteem.

[b***@gmail.com]

Post by Thanatos

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_
no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in front
of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where you're at
your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you can do is
force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!

It teaches you how to suck it and do stuff that you don't want to do.

Tell us that came out all wrong...

[zob]

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Thanatos

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_
no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in front
of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where you're at
your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you can do is
force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!

It teaches you how to suck it and do stuff that you don't want to do.

Tell us that came out all wrong...

ROFL!
---
Zob

[Vandar]

Post by Thanatos

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_
no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in front
of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where you're at
your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you can do is
force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!

It teaches you how to suck it and do stuff that you don't want to do.

Using that line of thought, so does being strip searched in prison.

Post by Thanatos
We seem to be eliminating all of life's lessons from schools these days
because we're so worried about little Johnny and Jenny's self esteem.

There is no lesson to be gained by forcing kids to take showers in school.

[Cheri]

Post by Vandar
There is no lesson to be gained by forcing kids to take showers in school.

None whatsoever. There are other places to show authority, and not while
some shy kid is standing naked in a public shower.

Cheri

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Cheri

Post by Vandar
There is no lesson to be gained by forcing kids to take showers in school.

None whatsoever. There are other places to show authority, and not while
some shy kid is standing naked in a public shower.

Taking a shower after P.E. should have nothing to do about a show of
authority and everything to do with developing good hygienes. If installing
private showers makes the kids more comfortable, there's nothing wrong with
that, especially in today's world where a fellow kid could take an
inappropriate photo with a cell phone.


- Peter

[Vandar]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Cheri

Post by Vandar
There is no lesson to be gained by forcing kids to take showers in school.

None whatsoever. There are other places to show authority, and not
while some shy kid is standing naked in a public shower.

Taking a shower after P.E. should have nothing to do about a show of
authority and everything to do with developing good hygienes.

If that were true, schools would require students to brush their teeth
after lunch.

The root problem is that "Physical Education" has nothing to do with
education. Having kids play volleyball or run around a track for 40
minutes teaches them *nothing*.

Post by Peter Lawrence
If installing private showers makes the kids more comfortable, there's
nothing wrong with that, especially in today's world where a fellow kid
could take an inappropriate photo with a cell phone.

With state already way over budget, upgrading showers is never going to
happen. What they should do is eliminate the showers altogether, thereby
saving money on the water bill.
They could save even more money by just eliminating PE. Here in NY, you
don't graduate without passing 4 years of gym, which is one of dumbest
policies in the history of education.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Vandar

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Cheri

Post by Vandar
There is no lesson to be gained by forcing kids to take showers in school.

None whatsoever. There are other places to show authority, and not
while some shy kid is standing naked in a public shower.

Taking a shower after P.E. should have nothing to do about a show of
authority and everything to do with developing good hygienes.

If that were true, schools would require students to brush their teeth
after lunch.

They should. They should also require that students wash their hands before
they eat lunch. Poor hygienes leads to sickness and poor health.

Post by Vandar
The root problem is that "Physical Education" has nothing to do with
education. Having kids play volleyball or run around a track for 40
minutes teaches them *nothing*.

It helps them stay fit. And with government (read taxpayers) poised to
spend more and more money on healthcare, it's important that the population
as a whole stay as fit and healthy as possible.

Post by Vandar

Post by Peter Lawrence
If installing private showers makes the kids more comfortable, there's
nothing wrong with that, especially in today's world where a fellow
kid could take an inappropriate photo with a cell phone.

With state already way over budget, upgrading showers is never going to
happen. What they should do is eliminate the showers altogether, thereby
saving money on the water bill.
They could save even more money by just eliminating PE. Here in NY, you
don't graduate without passing 4 years of gym, which is one of dumbest
policies in the history of education.

Actually, I think it's great that New York state requires four years of gym.
I think all states should requires high school seniors to pass a fitness
exam besides an educational exit exam before they receive their high school
diploma. Of course, students with physical disabilities would be exempt (or
at least have a modified test appropriate for their physical disability).

- Peter

[Vandar]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Vandar

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Cheri

Post by Vandar
There is no lesson to be gained by forcing kids to take showers in school.

None whatsoever. There are other places to show authority, and not
while some shy kid is standing naked in a public shower.

Taking a shower after P.E. should have nothing to do about a show of
authority and everything to do with developing good hygienes.

If that were true, schools would require students to brush their teeth
after lunch.

They should. They should also require that students wash their hands
before they eat lunch. Poor hygienes leads to sickness and poor health.

Post by Vandar
The root problem is that "Physical Education" has nothing to do with
education. Having kids play volleyball or run around a track for 40
minutes teaches them *nothing*.

It helps them stay fit. And with government (read taxpayers) poised to
spend more and more money on healthcare, it's important that the
population as a whole stay as fit and healthy as possible.

School is supposed to be about learning. PE does not teach, thus they do
not learn from it. Around here, teaching kids how to stay fit and
healthy is done in a class called "Health".
PE is a waste of time and resources. Having it be required for
graduation is beyond stupid.

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Vandar

Post by Peter Lawrence
If installing private showers makes the kids more comfortable,
there's nothing wrong with that, especially in today's world where a
fellow kid could take an inappropriate photo with a cell phone.

With state already way over budget, upgrading showers is never going
to happen. What they should do is eliminate the showers altogether,
thereby saving money on the water bill.
They could save even more money by just eliminating PE. Here in NY,
you don't graduate without passing 4 years of gym, which is one of
dumbest policies in the history of education.

Actually, I think it's great that New York state requires four years of
gym. I think all states should requires high school seniors to pass a
fitness exam besides an educational exit exam before they receive their
high school diploma. Of course, students with physical disabilities
would be exempt (or at least have a modified test appropriate for their
physical disability).

My daughter tells me that they recently switched to a credit based
system. Kids must earn a certain number of credits to graduate, with a
set number of credits required in certain classes. Only one credit of
Health is required, while 4 credits of PE are required (6 credits of
math and science and 8 credits of social studies and english).
In this tech age, I see a huge problem with requiring less math and
science than SS and Eng. At minimum, they should be equalized at the
expense of "PE".

As an added bonus, since they implemented this new system, graduation
rates have markedly dropped.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Vandar

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Vandar

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Cheri

Post by Vandar
There is no lesson to be gained by forcing kids to take showers in school.

None whatsoever. There are other places to show authority, and not
while some shy kid is standing naked in a public shower.

Taking a shower after P.E. should have nothing to do about a show of
authority and everything to do with developing good hygienes.

If that were true, schools would require students to brush their
teeth after lunch.

They should. They should also require that students wash their hands
before they eat lunch. Poor hygienes leads to sickness and poor health.

Post by Vandar
The root problem is that "Physical Education" has nothing to do with
education. Having kids play volleyball or run around a track for 40
minutes teaches them *nothing*.

It helps them stay fit. And with government (read taxpayers) poised
to spend more and more money on healthcare, it's important that the
population as a whole stay as fit and healthy as possible.

School is supposed to be about learning. PE does not teach, thus they do
not learn from it. Around here, teaching kids how to stay fit and
healthy is done in a class called "Health".
PE is a waste of time and resources. Having it be required for
graduation is beyond stupid.

That's a very shortsighted view. It's important that in school students not
only develop their minds, but also develop their bodies so they are in good
working order as they become adults. Child obesity is growing in epidemic
proportions as children, including teenagers, become more and more
sedentary. This will have a direct negative effects on their lives, and the
lives of those who will have to pay for their ever increasing medical bills.

One main reason more and more children are becoming physically unfit at such
an early age is because the lack of physical activity including exercise.
While I agree that calling it a "Physical Education" class is a misnomer,
("Physical Fitness" class would be a better description) I think more than
ever it should be an essential part of every child's development.


- Peter

[Vandar]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Vandar

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Vandar

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Cheri

Post by Vandar
There is no lesson to be gained by forcing kids to take showers in school.

None whatsoever. There are other places to show authority, and not
while some shy kid is standing naked in a public shower.

Taking a shower after P.E. should have nothing to do about a show
of authority and everything to do with developing good hygienes.

If that were true, schools would require students to brush their
teeth after lunch.

They should. They should also require that students wash their hands
before they eat lunch. Poor hygienes leads to sickness and poor health.

Post by Vandar
The root problem is that "Physical Education" has nothing to do with
education. Having kids play volleyball or run around a track for 40
minutes teaches them *nothing*.

It helps them stay fit. And with government (read taxpayers) poised
to spend more and more money on healthcare, it's important that the
population as a whole stay as fit and healthy as possible.

School is supposed to be about learning. PE does not teach, thus they
do not learn from it. Around here, teaching kids how to stay fit and
healthy is done in a class called "Health".
PE is a waste of time and resources. Having it be required for
graduation is beyond stupid.

That's a very shortsighted view. It's important that in school students
not only develop their minds, but also develop their bodies so they are
in good working order as they become adults.

It's not a school's job to develop a child's body, only assist in
developing their mind.

Post by Peter Lawrence
Child obesity is growing
in epidemic proportions as children, including teenagers, become more
and more sedentary. This will have a direct negative effects on their
lives, and the lives of those who will have to pay for their ever
increasing medical bills.
One main reason more and more children are becoming physically unfit at
such an early age is because the lack of physical activity including
exercise. While I agree that calling it a "Physical Education" class is
a misnomer, ("Physical Fitness" class would be a better description) I
think more than ever it should be an essential part of every child's
development.

It should. What it shouldn't be is part of a school curriculum or a
prerequisite to receiving a diploma.
The fact that childhood obesity is such an issue even though PE is
required only shows that PE doesn't serve any purpose.
I got more mileage out of one semester of an elective computer class I
took in middle school than I did in 6 years of PE.

[Thanatos]

Post by Vandar

Post by Vandar
PE is a waste of time and resources. Having it be required for
graduation is beyond stupid.

That's a very shortsighted view. It's important that in school students
not only develop their minds, but also develop their bodies so they are
in good working order as they become adults.

It's not a school's job to develop a child's body, only assist in
developing their mind.

Says who?

Post by Vandar
The fact that childhood obesity is such an issue even though PE is
required only shows that PE doesn't serve any purpose.

But it's not required anymore in many, many places. Hence the obesity
problem.

[Suzanne D.]

Post by Vandar
School is supposed to be about learning. PE does not teach, thus they do
not learn from it. Around here, teaching kids how to stay fit and healthy
is done in a class called "Health".
PE is a waste of time and resources. Having it be required for graduation
is beyond stupid.

I don't really get P.E. as a requirement either. I guess some kids NEED
that 40 minutes of activity a day, but not everyone does. Especially if
they walk to school instead of drive. My son has to walk almost two miles
to school, run a mile at the end of the school day (in 105 degree weather
these days), then come back home another almost-two miles. I'd think the
four-mile walk would be sufficient to excuse him from P.E., but the school
doesn't agree with me.
--S.

[Thanatos]

Post by Vandar
The root problem is that "Physical Education" has nothing to do with
education. Having kids play volleyball or run around a track for 40
minutes teaches them *nothing*.

Who says it's about teaching/learning? It's not. It's about getting some
exercise.

[Suzanne D.]

Post by Peter Lawrence
Taking a shower after P.E. should have nothing to do about a show of
authority and everything to do with developing good hygienes.

Yeah, but kids can learn to shower at home. They don't need school for
that.
--S.

[Thanatos]

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by Peter Lawrence
Taking a shower after P.E. should have nothing to do about a show of
authority and everything to do with developing good hygienes.

Yeah, but kids can learn to shower at home.

It's not about learning how to shower, it's about learning when to
shower. Waiting through an entire school day smelling like clabbered
milk, then showering when you get home doesn't really do the trick.

[b***@gmail.com]

Post by Vandar

Post by Thanatos
We seem to be eliminating all of life's lessons from schools these days
because we're so worried about little Johnny and Jenny's self esteem.

There is no lesson to be gained by forcing kids to take showers in school.

Nope, none whatsoever. And besides, normal people usually prefer to spend
as little time as possible in locker rooms. They're smelly, filthy, dirty
places and anything that touches the floor will likely pick up a fungus.
A quick wipe down with a clean towel, a little extra deodorant, and I was
outta there!!

[Thanatos]

Post by Vandar

Post by Suzanne D.

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school
_
no_w.html#more

I don't think that really that weird. I would never have showered in front
of someone else at that age. That's the point in your life where you're at
your most absolute insecure about your body--the WORST thing you can do is
force a kid to reveal it to everyone else!

It teaches you how to suck it up and do stuff that you don't want to do.

Using that line of thought, so does being strip searched in prison.

Only if you want to engage in reductio ad absurdum.

Post by Vandar

We seem to be eliminating all of life's lessons from schools these days
because we're so worried about little Johnny and Jenny's self esteem.

There is no lesson to be gained by forcing kids to take showers in school.

Hmmm... proper hygiene springs to mind.

[Thanatos]

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no
_w.html#more

I was reading an article yesterday about a man who grabbed a 14-year-old
girl's arm to keep her from walking in front of a moving car. He took
the time to give her a quick lecture about paying attention and looking
where you're going and ended up being charged with (and convicted of)
"unlawful restraint of a minor" for his trouble. The cherry on top of
that crap sundae is that "unlawful restraint of a minor" is a sexual
offense in that state, so now the guy is a sex offender for the rest of
his life, has to register with the state, can only live in certain
areas, etc.

Fantastic, huh?

[Bob Rudd]

Post by Thanatos

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no
_w.html#more

I was reading an article yesterday about a man who grabbed a 14-year-old
girl's arm to keep her from walking in front of a moving car. He took
the time to give her a quick lecture about paying attention and looking
where you're going and ended up being charged with (and convicted of)
"unlawful restraint of a minor" for his trouble. The cherry on top of
that crap sundae is that "unlawful restraint of a minor" is a sexual
offense in that state, so now the guy is a sex offender for the rest of
his life, has to register with the state, can only live in certain
areas, etc.
Fantastic, huh?

Infriggincredible. I think I'll take Oregon off the list of possible
retirement states.

[zob]

Post by Thanatos

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no
_w.html#more

I was reading an article yesterday about a man who grabbed a 14-year-old
girl's arm to keep her from walking in front of a moving car. He took
the time to give her a quick lecture about paying attention and looking
where you're going and ended up being charged with (and convicted of)
"unlawful restraint of a minor" for his trouble. The cherry on top of
that crap sundae is that "unlawful restraint of a minor" is a sexual
offense in that state, so now the guy is a sex offender for the rest of
his life, has to register with the state, can only live in certain
areas, etc.
Fantastic, huh?

Whatever happened to the "Good Samaritan" law that protects citizens
who do good deeds from stupid things like this?
---
Zob

[Bob Rudd]

In article <***@4ax.com>, zob <zobva1
@ gmail.com> says...

Post by zob

Post by Thanatos

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_school_no
_w.html#more

I was reading an article yesterday about a man who grabbed a 14-year-old
girl's arm to keep her from walking in front of a moving car. He took
the time to give her a quick lecture about paying attention and looking
where you're going and ended up being charged with (and convicted of)
"unlawful restraint of a minor" for his trouble. The cherry on top of
that crap sundae is that "unlawful restraint of a minor" is a sexual
offense in that state, so now the guy is a sex offender for the rest of
his life, has to register with the state, can only live in certain
areas, etc.
Fantastic, huh?

Whatever happened to the "Good Samaritan" law that protects citizens
who do good deeds from stupid things like this?
---
Zob

Golly zob, it depends on the state/DC you live in nowaday in a number of
cases. Thanatos is the lawyer but times have changed, I think, from the
common "Good Samatarian" laws of our youth.

[PeterL]

Post by Thanatos

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...
_w.html#more

I was reading an article yesterday about a man who grabbed a 14-year-old
girl's arm to keep her from walking in front of a moving car. He took
the time to give her a quick lecture about paying attention and looking
where you're going and ended up being charged with (and convicted of)
"unlawful restraint of a minor" for his trouble. The cherry on top of
that crap sundae is that "unlawful restraint of a minor" is a sexual
offense in that state, so now the guy is a sex offender for the rest of
his life, has to register with the state, can only live in certain
areas, etc.
Fantastic, huh?

Are there more to that story? Did he physically force that girl to
stay and listen to his "quick" lecture?

[Rachel]

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...
---
Zob

I graduated from high school in 2003, and nobody ever showered after
gym class. Well, none of the girls anyway. I don't think the guys
did either.

[PeterL]

Post by zob
I just added this to my, "Just When You Think You've Heard Everything"
list ...
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2009/07/shower_together_at_...
---
Zob

Have you ever been to a shower or a locker in a high school?

[Susan]

x-n-archive: yes

Post by PeterL
Have you ever been to a shower or a locker in a high school?

When I was in jr. high, we had swimming for gym once a week, and that
was the only time we showered. It was HORRIBLE; you had to get naked,
stand in line to approach a big, pasty matron who looked like an east
German shot putter who'd look you over and hand you a suit. Red was
small, green was medium, and a poor girl named Hilary got the Big Blue
one, branded! Then after swimming, you had to peel off the suit and be
naked in a room full of girls again, trying to hold a small towel in
front of you for modesty's sake before and after showering.

We HATED it. Better to go to a less privileged district with no effing
pool.

Susan