Discussion:
Tire pressures to be requied for cars
(too old to reply)
Jon Porter
2005-04-07 17:24:58 UTC
Permalink
The regulation, which has its roots in the Firestone tire recall of 2000,
will require automakers to attach tiny sensors to each wheel that will
signal if a tire falls 25 percent below the recommended inflation pressure.
If any one of the four tires is underinflated, the sensors set off a
dashboard warning light.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7410597/

Right now it's for passenger vehicles only, but it would be interesting to
see how this regulation would work on trucks and similar large vehicles.
What would they then consider to be the "recommended presser?" And will this
new ruling apply to Class B RVs?
--
Jon
JPinOH
Carl A.
2005-04-07 17:44:54 UTC
Permalink
The regulation, which has its roots in the Firestone tire recall of 2000, will
require automakers to attach tiny sensors to each wheel that will signal if a
tire falls 25 percent below the recommended inflation pressure. If any one of
the four tires is underinflated, the sensors set off a dashboard warning
light.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7410597/
Right now it's for passenger vehicles only, but it would be interesting to see
how this regulation would work on trucks and similar large vehicles. What
would they then consider to be the "recommended presser?" And will this new
ruling apply to Class B RVs?
--
Jon
JPinOH
The article that you link to seems to answer your questions, to wit:
"All new four-wheel vehicles weighing 10,000 pounds or less will be required to
be equipped with the systems by the 2008 model year. The regulation affects
passenger cars, sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks and minivans."
--
Carl A. in FL
Enjoy photo-journals of my travels at
http://sky.prohosting.com/chainfl/index.htm
stuckinthemud
2005-04-07 17:51:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl A.
The regulation, which has its roots in the Firestone tire recall of 2000, will
require automakers to attach tiny sensors to each wheel that will signal if a
tire falls 25 percent below the recommended inflation pressure. If any one of
the four tires is underinflated, the sensors set off a dashboard warning
light.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7410597/
Right now it's for passenger vehicles only, but it would be interesting to see
how this regulation would work on trucks and similar large vehicles. What
would they then consider to be the "recommended presser?" And will this new
ruling apply to Class B RVs?
--
Jon
JPinOH
"All new four-wheel vehicles weighing 10,000 pounds or less will be required to
be equipped with the systems by the 2008 model year. The regulation affects
passenger cars, sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks and minivans."
--
Carl A. in FL
Enjoy photo-journals of my travels at
http://sky.prohosting.com/chainfl/index.htm
But not full size vans? Isn't that odd?

Nate
Bob Hatch
2005-04-07 17:04:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
But not full size vans? Isn't that odd?
Nate
No, what is odd is that people are not equipping their vehicles, (TT's,
fivers, MH, toads, MDT's, etc) with aftermarket devices. They are available.
They work. They could save lives and property damage, but only a small
percentage of RVers will take the time and money to be safe. That is odd.


"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Neon John
2005-04-07 18:29:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
But not full size vans? Isn't that odd?
Nate
No, what is odd is that people are not equipping their vehicles, (TT's,
fivers, MH, toads, MDT's, etc) with aftermarket devices. They are available.
They work. They could save lives and property damage, but only a small
percentage of RVers will take the time and money to be safe. That is odd.
If my grandmother was still alive she'd repeat her well-worn response
to this kind of stuff: "I wonder how the h*ll I managed to live my
life without the federal government?"

I can just imagine the day when there'll be gauges to tell you when to
pee and take a dump! NOT!

Why I don't want those things:

I know how to use a tire gauge just fine
I don't want another system to break
I don't want to waste my attention on false alarms.
I have better things to spend my money on.
My vehicles' handling degrades long before the tire is low enough to
matter.

Frankly, I'm amazed at people so mentally inert that they need such
gadgets to wake them up to a low tire condition. I'm not sure that a
fatality resulting from such inertness would not be a good thing.
Cleansing the gene pool and all that.

John
---
John De Armond
***@johngsbbq.com
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Bob Hatch
2005-04-07 17:41:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neon John
If my grandmother was still alive she'd repeat her well-worn response
to this kind of stuff: "I wonder how the h*ll I managed to live my
life without the federal government?"
I can just imagine the day when there'll be gauges to tell you when to
pee and take a dump! NOT!
I know how to use a tire gauge just fine
So do I. How do you do it at 65 MPH?
Post by Neon John
I don't want another system to break
Neither do I, that means my MH and all the things that will be damaged after
tread separation.
Post by Neon John
I don't want to waste my attention on false alarms.
Never had one.
Post by Neon John
I have better things to spend my money on.
It's your money, do as you like.
Post by Neon John
My vehicles' handling degrades long before the tire is low enough to
matter.
Really? What kind of change do you notice when the pressure on an inside
dual drops by 50%? What kind of change do you notice when the pressure on
the right rear tire on the toad drops by 50%?

Like I said, spend your money any way you want and I'll do the same.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Neon John
2005-04-07 20:02:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I know how to use a tire gauge just fine
So do I. How do you do it at 65 MPH?
Don't know how you do it where you're from but here in the Sunny South
we have enough sense to pull over and stop before gauging our tires.
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I don't want to waste my attention on false alarms.
Never had one.
So you have the hubris to think that your experience is the same as
everyone else? Amazing.
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I have better things to spend my money on.
It's your money, do as you like.
I plan to.
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
My vehicles' handling degrades long before the tire is low enough to
matter.
Really? What kind of change do you notice when the pressure on an inside
dual drops by 50%? What kind of change do you notice when the pressure on
the right rear tire on the toad drops by 50%?
I don't use a toad so I can't answer that question. My rig doesn't
have duals so I can't address that either. My mom's MH starts wagging
its tail and vibrates badly when a rear tire gets low. Both my and
her rig get really squirrelly when the fronts change pressure even a
little.

I know from experience that my mom's rig runs just fine with a totally
flat dually. My rear axle isn't overloaded and the deflated tire
doesn't contact the road. As long as I stay away from speeds where
the flat tire flutters, no problem.

Of course that's specific to my rig but then again, knowing my rig's
characteristics very well is just part of owning and properly
operating it.

I wonder, Bob, do you need a gage to tell you to add oil, transmission
fluid, antifreeze, etc? If you do then I feel sorry whomever ends up
with your rig when you sell it.
Post by Bob Hatch
Like I said, spend your money any way you want and I'll do the same.
An excellent plan. And while you're at it you might also keep your
derogatory opinions about those who differ with you to yourself.
Never has the old saying about "better to remain silent and be thought
a fool.." ever been more applicable.

John

---
John De Armond
***@johngsbbq.com
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Kevin W. Miller
2005-04-07 20:25:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neon John
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I know how to use a tire gauge just fine
So do I. How do you do it at 65 MPH?
Don't know how you do it where you're from but here in the Sunny South
we have enough sense to pull over and stop before gauging our tires.
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I don't want to waste my attention on false alarms.
Never had one.
So you have the hubris to think that your experience is the same as
everyone else? Amazing.
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I have better things to spend my money on.
It's your money, do as you like.
I plan to.
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
My vehicles' handling degrades long before the tire is low enough to
matter.
Really? What kind of change do you notice when the pressure on an
inside dual drops by 50%? What kind of change do you notice when the
pressure on the right rear tire on the toad drops by 50%?
I don't use a toad so I can't answer that question. My rig doesn't
have duals so I can't address that either. My mom's MH starts wagging
its tail and vibrates badly when a rear tire gets low. Both my and
her rig get really squirrelly when the fronts change pressure even a
little.
I know from experience that my mom's rig runs just fine with a totally
flat dually. My rear axle isn't overloaded and the deflated tire
doesn't contact the road. As long as I stay away from speeds where
the flat tire flutters, no problem.
Of course that's specific to my rig but then again, knowing my rig's
characteristics very well is just part of owning and properly
operating it.
I wonder, Bob, do you need a gage to tell you to add oil, transmission
fluid, antifreeze, etc? If you do then I feel sorry whomever ends up
with your rig when you sell it.
Post by Bob Hatch
Like I said, spend your money any way you want and I'll do the same.
An excellent plan. And while you're at it you might also keep your
derogatory opinions about those who differ with you to yourself.
Never has the old saying about "better to remain silent and be thought
a fool.." ever been more applicable.
Somehow, I seem to have missed Bob's derogatory opinions in his reply to
your post.

Kevin W. Miller
stuckinthemud
2005-04-07 21:00:48 UTC
Permalink
"Neon John" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
[snip]
Post by Neon John
An excellent plan. And while you're at it you might also keep your
derogatory opinions about those who differ with you to yourself.
Never has the old saying about "better to remain silent and be thought
a fool.." ever been more applicable.
John
<sound of referee blowing whistle>

Hold on there, John. Where was his derogatory opinion documented? I can't
find it in this thread. He simply stated his opinion, which obviously
differs from yours and mine. That, in and of itself, is not derogatory.
It's a conversation.

Nate
Alan Balmer
2005-04-07 21:56:41 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:02:26 -0400, Neon John
<snip>
Post by Neon John
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I don't want to waste my attention on false alarms.
Never had one.
So you have the hubris to think that your experience is the same as
everyone else? Amazing.
<snip>
Post by Neon John
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
My vehicles' handling degrades long before the tire is low enough to
matter.
Really? What kind of change do you notice when the pressure on an inside
dual drops by 50%? What kind of change do you notice when the pressure on
the right rear tire on the toad drops by 50%?
I don't use a toad so I can't answer that question. My rig doesn't
have duals so I can't address that either. My mom's MH starts wagging
its tail and vibrates badly when a rear tire gets low. Both my and
her rig get really squirrelly when the fronts change pressure even a
little.
So you have the hubris to think that your experience is the same as
everyone else? Amazing.
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
***@att.net
Bob Hatch
2005-04-07 21:40:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neon John
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I know how to use a tire gauge just fine
So do I. How do you do it at 65 MPH?
Don't know how you do it where you're from but here in the Sunny South
we have enough sense to pull over and stop before gauging our tires.
So in your part of the Sunny South what sort of device do you use to assure
that your tires never, ever, under any conditions pick up a nail or some
other piece of material that would cause the tire to lose air and over heat?
Post by Neon John
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I don't want to waste my attention on false alarms.
Never had one.
So you have the hubris to think that your experience is the same as
everyone else? Amazing.
Repeat above statement back to you.
Post by Neon John
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I have better things to spend my money on.
It's your money, do as you like.
I plan to.
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
My vehicles' handling degrades long before the tire is low enough to
matter.
Really? What kind of change do you notice when the pressure on an
inside dual drops by 50%? What kind of change do you notice when the
pressure on the right rear tire on the toad drops by 50%?
I don't use a toad so I can't answer that question. My rig doesn't
have duals so I can't address that either. My mom's MH starts wagging
its tail and vibrates badly when a rear tire gets low. Both my and
her rig get really squirrelly when the fronts change pressure even a
little.
So your experience, or lack thereof, has little to do with others. Wow. If
your mom's rig gets that bad with a small pressure change it sounds like
there could be problems with the tires, wheels, axle or maybe all three.
Post by Neon John
I know from experience that my mom's rig runs just fine with a totally
flat dually. My rear axle isn't overloaded and the deflated tire
doesn't contact the road. As long as I stay away from speeds where
the flat tire flutters, no problem.
When one of the duals goes flat the other tire on the same side is
overloaded. When one of the duals gets under inflated by as little as 20%
the tire starts to experience damage. When the tire that is carrying the
bulk of the load is in fact overloaded, will overheat and will cause damage
to the tire. It may not show within minutes, but the damage is done
Post by Neon John
Of course that's specific to my rig but then again, knowing my rig's
characteristics very well is just part of owning and properly
operating it.
As is mine
Post by Neon John
I wonder, Bob, do you need a gage to tell you to add oil, transmission
fluid, antifreeze, etc? If you do then I feel sorry whomever ends up
with your rig when you sell it.
You need a gauge to tell you when to add air and when to stop adding air.
You need a gauge (dip stick) to tell you when to add oil and transmission
fluid the same as the rest of us. In my case the overflow tank on the
radiator tells me when to add antifreeze. My rig is in excellent condition,
inside and out as well as mechanical.
Post by Neon John
Post by Bob Hatch
Like I said, spend your money any way you want and I'll do the same.
An excellent plan. And while you're at it you might also keep your
derogatory opinions about those who differ with you to yourself.
Point out the derogatory opinion I made about anyone in this thread. I can
list 2 or 3 you made about me in this post, but I have done no such thing
about you or anyone else.
Post by Neon John
Never has the old saying about "better to remain silent and be thought
a fool.." ever been more applicable.
But you still spoke out when silence would have been better.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Neon John
2005-04-08 02:41:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I know how to use a tire gauge just fine
So do I. How do you do it at 65 MPH?
Don't know how you do it where you're from but here in the Sunny South
we have enough sense to pull over and stop before gauging our tires.
So in your part of the Sunny South what sort of device do you use to assure
that your tires never, ever, under any conditions pick up a nail or some
other piece of material that would cause the tire to lose air and over heat?
I use my brain, of course. The first use of my brain is to realize
that worrying about never, ever, under any condition type of problems
is foolish since one can never figure out ALL those abnormal
conditions. Once I realize that, I prepare for the most likely events
(spare tire, gauge, pyrometer, spare lug bolts and studs, etc) and
simply ignore the fanciful possibilities.

The second use of my brain is to realize that I stop at least every
hour to hour and a half to stretch my legs, pee, get gas and/or get a
snack. While I'm stretching my legs I walk around the rig to look and
sniff. As anyone who's ever actually had a roadside tire defect
knows, the warmer tire emits an odor long before anything drastic
happens.

If I see or smell anything suspicious then I reach behind the seat
for ye olde tire gauge and ye olde infrared pyrometer. A quick check
of the temps and pressures tells me what I need to know. I can count
on one hand with fingers left over the number of times I've actually
had to do that. I'd say it's been at least 2 years since I've had to
add air to any of our RV tires.

My walk-around look-and-sniff test enables me to detect other
incipient problems such as overheating fanbelts, leaking antifreeze,
oil leaking hitting the exhaust, transmission overheating and a bunch
of other things that no idiot gauge could possibly detect.

I would have thought this to be patently obvious to anyone who drives
over the road but I guess not.
Post by Bob Hatch
When one of the duals goes flat the other tire on the same side is
overloaded.
That, of course, depends on the rig weight, the tire class and the
wheel size. In my particular case, the un-flat tire handles the rig
just fine as long as I don't over-do it speed-wise.
Post by Bob Hatch
When one of the duals gets under inflated by as little as 20%
the tire starts to experience damage. When the tire that is carrying the
bulk of the load is in fact overloaded, will overheat and will cause damage
to the tire. It may not show within minutes, but the damage is done
Really? So you mean to say that when I aim my pyrometer at the tire
and see normal temperatures, some little demon is inside the tire
doing "damage" anyway? Wow, I would have never guessed. Guess I need
to squirt some demoncide into the tires, huh?

I guess that as an experimentalist, my approach is a bit different
than most. When I have a flat on the dual axle, rather than
panicking, running around waving my arms in the air or screaming for
road service, ruining the rest of the day and raising my blood
pressure in the process, I stop and evaluate the new system
configuration.

I look at my log to see what weight is on the axle and do a little
mental figuring. I see that the tire isn't badly overloaded so I
decide to experiment a little. I drive for a mile or two and check
the tire temperatures (both flat and inflated.) Only a little above
normal so drive another few miles and check again. Speed up a little
and check. Speed up a little more and check again. I have three
points so I can sketch a graph and project what the tire will do at
various speeds. I pick a speed that will keep the tire tolerably cool
and proceed.

The result of this little experiment was that I finished my trip
without interruption, hassle or expense and without worrying. I could
then have my tire repaired at my friendly local dealer that gives me
good tire prices and who doesn't turn the tire monkeys loose with the
air wrench to gall or twist off my wheel studs. My experiment added
maybe 30 minutes to the trip.

I guess I'm just different. I suppose the normal thing to do would
have been to panic, call road service, pay side-of-the-road ripoff
prices for the tire, get my blood pressure up and spoil the rest of
the day. I think I'll remain not normal...

John

PS: I highly recommend having an optical pyrometer in the vehicle.
Mine are those rat shack models made by Raytek that cost about $30 and
are quite accurate. I put one in each of my vehicles. I've gotten in
the habit of shooting my tires when I stop for gas as part of the
walk-around. One tire significantly hotter than the rest is probably
low on air.

It's also handy for scanning the radiator (for clogged tubes), coolant
hoses (blockages and internal swelling cause cool spots), the heater
box (AC air leakage causes cold spots), the battery (weak cells will
be hotter than the rest) and any number of other things on the rig.

---
John De Armond
***@johngsbbq.com
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Steve Wolf
2005-04-08 14:23:21 UTC
Permalink
John and others,

I've had two blow-outs on my toads that were unnoticed from the driver's
seat. It was only the frantic waves from Good Samaritans that saved me from
significant damage. My cars are so light I don't notice I am pulling them.
Honest. If you put me in the driver's seat without my rear-view camera, I
could not tell you if my Saturn was behind me or not. If you pay attention
to weight, you will find you can do the same. Those who are towing heavier
vehicles are probably in a more serious situation when a blow out occurs.
You don't feel the blow out.

The hubris comes from people who believe because they have the resources and
can afford luxuries, those luxuries that they feel should be thrust upon
others should be done so at the other's cost. These things are NOT designed
to signal a blow-out. They are for the dopey 19 year old, probably a silver
spoon bitch of some large motorhome owner, who can't find the time to check
her tire pressure. "Daddy--you have to fill my tires! My light is on!"

The hubris comes from not having real data as to what effects this program
will provide. A study with one car manufacturer would provide data that
signals if these devices would have the desired effect. The desired effect
is not to payback a republican money-maker with a windfall for his recent
political contributions. As these windfalls come easy with this government,
these effects will be multiplying from what we see now in LP issues and tire
pressure sensors.

It will be interesting and a heck of a lot of fun to transmit the signal
from the car tot he RV. Letsee -- remote reading thermometers! Maybe we
can modify the transmitter to send the signal to the RV to then turn on a
Sonalert. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Steve
www.wolfswords.com under the motorhome link
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 14:29:45 UTC
Permalink
"Neon John" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
[snip]
Post by Neon John
I guess that as an experimentalist, my approach is a bit different
than most. When I have a flat on the dual axle, rather than
panicking, running around waving my arms in the air or screaming for
road service, ruining the rest of the day and raising my blood
pressure in the process, I stop and evaluate the new system
configuration.
I look at my log to see what weight is on the axle and do a little
mental figuring. I see that the tire isn't badly overloaded so I
decide to experiment a little. I drive for a mile or two and check
the tire temperatures (both flat and inflated.) Only a little above
normal so drive another few miles and check again. Speed up a little
and check. Speed up a little more and check again. I have three
points so I can sketch a graph and project what the tire will do at
various speeds. I pick a speed that will keep the tire tolerably cool
and proceed.
The result of this little experiment was that I finished my trip
without interruption, hassle or expense and without worrying. I could
then have my tire repaired at my friendly local dealer that gives me
good tire prices and who doesn't turn the tire monkeys loose with the
air wrench to gall or twist off my wheel studs. My experiment added
maybe 30 minutes to the trip.
Whoa...way too much work.

Last time I had tire troubles in my class c, I pulled over, called my
insurance company who found me a tire jerk and sent him to my location. I
sat back, cracked open a beer and waited for the tire jerk. He showed about
an hour and a half later (2 am) and within a half hour I was on my way with
the alcohol from the beer already weening out of my system.

Actually...before I called I thought I was going to handle the swap to the
spare myself. I had a brand new 20 ton bottle jack and wheel chalks. The
tire was in the air when I realized I had forgot my lug wrench. At that
point I decided to relax and have fun with this.

No where along the line did I think to myself...sure would have been nice if
I had a pressure sensor in the tire. I doubt it would have helped anyhow
since I was dealing with tread seperation, not a flat. The tire still held
the air, but had no tread left.

I guess it's all about personal preferences. Bob wants to have
sensors...you like to experiement...and I like to drink and relax.

Nate
Bob Hatch
2005-04-08 14:53:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
Whoa...way too much work.
Last time I had tire troubles in my class c, I pulled over, called my
insurance company who found me a tire jerk and sent him to my
location. I sat back, cracked open a beer and waited for the tire
jerk. He showed about an hour and a half later (2 am) and within a
half hour I was on my way with the alcohol from the beer already
weening out of my system.
Actually...before I called I thought I was going to handle the swap
to the spare myself. I had a brand new 20 ton bottle jack and wheel
chalks. The tire was in the air when I realized I had forgot my lug
wrench. At that point I decided to relax and have fun with this.
No where along the line did I think to myself...sure would have been
nice if I had a pressure sensor in the tire. I doubt it would have
helped anyhow since I was dealing with tread seperation, not a flat. The
tire still held the air, but had no tread left.
I guess it's all about personal preferences. Bob wants to have
sensors...you like to experiement...and I like to drink and relax.
Nate
Your experience means little without more data. What caused the tread
separation? What was the tire pressure after the separation? What was the
pressure of the tire before the separation? What was the age of the tire
that had the problem? What was the tire pressure recommendation based on the
weight of the rig, and more specifically the weight of the wheel position.

The reality is that you have no way of knowing whether or not a quality
pressure monitoring system would have saved you a tire, or not.

And no, I don't like to experiment with safety. The pressure monitoring
system I use was designed for use by trucks. Not pickups, but real trucks.
You know, over the road kind of things with 18 or more wheels. It is sold by
a company called Fleet Specialties and their primary focus is on companies
with lots of trucks that do over the road travel. It's a proven system that
needs no experimentation.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 16:24:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
Whoa...way too much work.
Last time I had tire troubles in my class c, I pulled over, called my
insurance company who found me a tire jerk and sent him to my
location. I sat back, cracked open a beer and waited for the tire
jerk. He showed about an hour and a half later (2 am) and within a
half hour I was on my way with the alcohol from the beer already
weening out of my system.
Actually...before I called I thought I was going to handle the swap
to the spare myself. I had a brand new 20 ton bottle jack and wheel
chalks. The tire was in the air when I realized I had forgot my lug
wrench. At that point I decided to relax and have fun with this.
No where along the line did I think to myself...sure would have been
nice if I had a pressure sensor in the tire. I doubt it would have
helped anyhow since I was dealing with tread seperation, not a flat. The
tire still held the air, but had no tread left.
I guess it's all about personal preferences. Bob wants to have
sensors...you like to experiement...and I like to drink and relax.
Nate
Your experience means little without more data. What caused the tread
separation?
Leaving tires on the rig for 5 years without proper inspection. My bad.
Don't do it anymore. No one was killed thank God.
Post by Bob Hatch
What was the tire pressure after the separation?
85 lbs
Post by Bob Hatch
What was the pressure of the tire before the separation?
85 lbs
Post by Bob Hatch
What was the age of the tire that had the problem?
I had it for 5 years. Those tires came with the rig. They looked new when
I bought it but I do not know for sure how long they sat in the driveway of
the previous owner.
Post by Bob Hatch
What was the tire pressure recommendation based on the weight of the rig,
85 lbs was the max for the tire. At that time I did not know that I should
have weighed the rig to determinbe the proper inflation. I do now though.
Post by Bob Hatch
and more specifically the weight of the wheel position.
Until now, I had no idea wheel position mattered. Where can I find info on
this? The tire that seperated was an outdside drivers side rear. I don't
have duallies anymore, but still want to learn about it. Is this a concern
for tandem axle trailers? Or should all four tires have the same inflation?
Post by Bob Hatch
The reality is that you have no way of knowing whether or not a quality
pressure monitoring system would have saved you a tire, or not.
So the system may have triggered even though the pressure never went down?
Maybe because the tire no longer carried the same load once the tread
seperated? There was atleast an inch less rubber on the tire after
sperating as I recall...could that cause the system to trigger?
Post by Bob Hatch
And no, I don't like to experiment with safety. The pressure monitoring
system I use was designed for use by trucks. Not pickups, but real trucks.
You know, over the road kind of things with 18 or more wheels. It is sold
by a company called Fleet Specialties and their primary focus is on
companies with lots of trucks that do over the road travel. It's a proven
system that needs no experimentation.
I saw your other post on this product. I am intrigued by it. I assumne all
wheels have to be rebalanced once the sensors are added since they way a
whole ounce...is this true? I am seriously considering buying some for my
5er. And just yesterday I was saying how silly they sound.

Nate
Post by Bob Hatch
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Bob Hatch
2005-04-08 16:07:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
Whoa...way too much work.
Last time I had tire troubles in my class c, I pulled over, called
my insurance company who found me a tire jerk and sent him to my
location. I sat back, cracked open a beer and waited for the tire
jerk. He showed about an hour and a half later (2 am) and within a
half hour I was on my way with the alcohol from the beer already
weening out of my system.
Actually...before I called I thought I was going to handle the swap
to the spare myself. I had a brand new 20 ton bottle jack and wheel
chalks. The tire was in the air when I realized I had forgot my lug
wrench. At that point I decided to relax and have fun with this.
No where along the line did I think to myself...sure would have been
nice if I had a pressure sensor in the tire. I doubt it would have
helped anyhow since I was dealing with tread seperation, not a
flat. The tire still held the air, but had no tread left.
I guess it's all about personal preferences. Bob wants to have
sensors...you like to experiement...and I like to drink and relax.
Nate
Your experience means little without more data. What caused the tread
separation?
Leaving tires on the rig for 5 years without proper inspection. My
bad. Don't do it anymore. No one was killed thank God.
Post by Bob Hatch
What was the tire pressure after the separation?
85 lbs
Post by Bob Hatch
What was the pressure of the tire before the separation?
85 lbs
Post by Bob Hatch
What was the age of the tire that had the problem?
I had it for 5 years. Those tires came with the rig. They looked
new when I bought it but I do not know for sure how long they sat in
the driveway of the previous owner.
Post by Bob Hatch
What was the tire pressure recommendation based on the weight of the rig,
85 lbs was the max for the tire. At that time I did not know that I
should have weighed the rig to determinbe the proper inflation. I do
now though.
But that means nothing, except that according to Michelin you should *never*
inflate the tire at more than the maximum PSI as listed on the tire. What
would have been more accurate is to have followed the sticker put on the
door by the mfr.
Post by stuckinthemud
Post by Bob Hatch
and more specifically the weight of the wheel position.
Until now, I had no idea wheel position mattered. Where can I find
info on this? The tire that seperated was an outdside drivers side
rear. I don't have duallies anymore, but still want to learn about
it. Is this a concern for tandem axle trailers? Or should all four
tires have the same inflation?
You know, that's a good question. IMO the rig should be weighd on each side
of the rig and the tire pressure set on all tires based on the heaviest side
of the trailer.
Post by stuckinthemud
Post by Bob Hatch
The reality is that you have no way of knowing whether or not a
quality pressure monitoring system would have saved you a tire, or
not.
So the system may have triggered even though the pressure never went
down? Maybe because the tire no longer carried the same load once the
tread seperated? There was atleast an inch less rubber on the tire
after sperating as I recall...could that cause the system to trigger?
Post by Bob Hatch
And no, I don't like to experiment with safety. The pressure
monitoring system I use was designed for use by trucks. Not pickups,
but real trucks. You know, over the road kind of things with 18 or
more wheels. It is sold by a company called Fleet Specialties and
their primary focus is on companies with lots of trucks that do over
the road travel. It's a proven system that needs no experimentation.
I saw your other post on this product. I am intrigued by it. I
assumne all wheels have to be rebalanced once the sensors are added
since they way a whole ounce...is this true? I am seriously
considering buying some for my 5er. And just yesterday I was saying
how silly they sound.
No, the wheels do not have to be rebalanced. Put the sensors on and set the
system up.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 17:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
I saw your other post on this product. I am intrigued by it. I
assumne all wheels have to be rebalanced once the sensors are added
since they way a whole ounce...is this true? I am seriously
considering buying some for my 5er. And just yesterday I was saying
how silly they sound.
No, the wheels do not have to be rebalanced. Put the sensors on and set
the system up.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
An ounce of weight does not throw the wheel out of balance? You're sure
about this? Did you install those buggers yourself?

Not wanting to challenge you on this...just want to be sure you're sure. My
tires are very sensitive to wheel balance for some reason. I can tell when
I pick up a rock in the treads. Of course, I am considering them for my
trailer so it really is a moot point anyhow.

Nate
Cliff
2005-04-08 19:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
An ounce of weight does not throw the wheel out of balance? You're sure
about this? Did you install those buggers yourself?
Not wanting to challenge you on this...just want to be sure you're sure.
My tires are very sensitive to wheel balance for some reason. I can tell
when I pick up a rock in the treads. Of course, I am considering them for
my trailer so it really is a moot point anyhow.
Nate
You do not balance your trailer tires? Not the best idea, dangerous, but
ride in the trailer for a few miles, note the vibration, wheel hop, and
dishes rattling. Balance tires and install shocks if not already on board.
JMO
--
Cliff
Our Web Page http://www.cj-and-m.com
.
.
For you and me, today is all we have; tomorrow is a mirage that may never
become a reality.
Louis L'Amour (1908 - 1988)
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 19:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff
Post by stuckinthemud
An ounce of weight does not throw the wheel out of balance? You're sure
about this? Did you install those buggers yourself?
Not wanting to challenge you on this...just want to be sure you're sure.
My tires are very sensitive to wheel balance for some reason. I can tell
when I pick up a rock in the treads. Of course, I am considering them
for my trailer so it really is a moot point anyhow.
Nate
You do not balance your trailer tires? Not the best idea, dangerous, but
ride in the trailer for a few miles, note the vibration, wheel hop, and
dishes rattling. Balance tires and install shocks if not already on
board. JMO
--
Cliff
Our Web Page http://www.cj-and-m.com
.
.
For you and me, today is all we have; tomorrow is a mirage that may never
become a reality.
Louis L'Amour (1908 - 1988)
I kinda figured that after I posted. You have to understand that I have had
trailers all my life. Lawn trailers and utility trailers. Those tires did
not need to be absolutely balanced or aligned. I just replaced the 22
dollar tires every couple years.

This 5er I have is the first RV trailer I owned. It came, brand new, with
tires that are balanced. I have ridden in the back and it is remarkably
smooth. I will make sure the tires stay balanced.

Excellent point...thank you.

Nate
Greg Surratt
2005-04-08 09:31:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
When one of the duals goes flat the other tire on the same side is
overloaded. When one of the duals gets under inflated by as little as 20%
the tire starts to experience damage. When the tire that is carrying the
bulk of the load is in fact overloaded, will overheat and will cause damage
to the tire. It may not show within minutes, but the damage is done
You forgot the part about when that first tire starts to go flat, the
bulge will then rub the other tire on the dual set and start to
generate heat and possibly cause damage to the second tire of the set.
Lon VanOstran
2005-04-08 02:35:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I don't want to waste my attention on false alarms.
Never had one.
Our Olds Alero has a low pressure warning system which would satisfy the
government, and it isn't worth the powder it would take to blow it up.

We get false warnings with regularity. Pain in the ass.

Lon
Bob Hatch
2005-04-08 03:13:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Our Olds Alero has a low pressure warning system which would satisfy
the government, and it isn't worth the powder it would take to blow
it up.
We get false warnings with regularity. Pain in the ass.
Lon
Then you should have got it fixed. :-)
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Lon VanOstran
2005-04-08 04:56:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Lon VanOstran
Our Olds Alero has a low pressure warning system which would satisfy
the government, and it isn't worth the powder it would take to blow
it up.
We get false warnings with regularity. Pain in the ass.
Lon
Then you should have got it fixed. :-)
Do you have a suggestion regarding who might be able to fix a piece of
shit system which really doesn't know, and can't know how much pressure
is in any tire? The freaking system measures whether or not one tire
makes more revolutions than the others.

Lon
WingNut
2005-04-08 13:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Lon VanOstran
Our Olds Alero has a low pressure warning system which
would satisfy
the government, and it isn't worth the powder it would
take to blow
it up. We get false warnings with regularity. Pain in
the ass.
Then you should have got it fixed. :-)
Do you have a suggestion regarding who might be able to
fix a piece of shit system which really doesn't know, and
can't know how much pressure is in any tire? The freaking
system measures whether or not one tire makes more
revolutions than the others.
I am surprised that you are having problems. My Toyota
Sienna has the same type of system, and it works just great.
It even works if one tire is overinflated, which happened to
me once. It uses the sensors for the ABS, and counts the
revs. The only times that I have had false indications was
when on a wet or slick surface and spun one of the front
wheels. (It is front wheel drive). Every other time the
light came on, I really had a low tire. In fact, I am
trying to get the indicator light remoted to my RV when the
van is under tow, so that I would know if a tire went flat.
I suggest that you lean on the dealer to replace the counter
unit on your Olds.

--
CPinTX
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 14:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Lon VanOstran
Our Olds Alero has a low pressure warning system which would satisfy
the government, and it isn't worth the powder it would take to blow
it up. We get false warnings with regularity. Pain in the ass.
Then you should have got it fixed. :-)
Do you have a suggestion regarding who might be able to fix a piece of
shit system which really doesn't know, and can't know how much pressure
is in any tire? The freaking system measures whether or not one tire
makes more revolutions than the others.
I am surprised that you are having problems. My Toyota Sienna has the
same type of system, and it works just great. It even works if one tire is
overinflated, which happened to me once. It uses the sensors for the ABS,
and counts the revs. The only times that I have had false indications was
when on a wet or slick surface and spun one of the front wheels. (It is
front wheel drive). Every other time the light came on, I really had a
low tire. In fact, I am trying to get the indicator light remoted to my
RV when the van is under tow, so that I would know if a tire went flat. I
suggest that you lean on the dealer to replace the counter unit on your
Olds.
--
CPinTX
If it is the ABS sensor feeding that circut, then not only do you get false
reading on tire pressure, but your ABS probably doesn't work properly. I'd
definately be getting that Olds into the dealer for some warranty work if it
is covered or I'd be tearing into it myself if out of warranty. Sensors are
easy to replace.

Nate
Lon VanOstran
2005-04-09 00:56:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
If it is the ABS sensor feeding that circut, then not only do you get false
reading on tire pressure, but your ABS probably doesn't work properly. I'd
definately be getting that Olds into the dealer for some warranty work if it
is covered or I'd be tearing into it myself if out of warranty. Sensors are
easy to replace.
Nate
There's nothing wrong with the sensors. Sometimes one of my front tires
turns more revolutions than the other. That sets off the warning light.
IMHO, the sensors are a pain in the ass. YMMV. Heck, you can set it off
by turning 3 full circles calibrating the compass.

Lon
WingNut
2005-04-08 16:38:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by WingNut
Post by Lon VanOstran
Our Olds Alero has a low pressure warning system which
.
Post by WingNut
I suggest that you lean on the dealer to replace the
counter unit on your Olds.
Oops, forgot - there is no Olds Dealer.

--
CPinTX
Bob Hatch
2005-04-08 13:11:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Do you have a suggestion regarding who might be able to fix a piece of
shit system which really doesn't know, and can't know how much
pressure is in any tire? The freaking system measures whether or not
one tire makes more revolutions than the others.
Lon
Don't have any idea where to get such a system repaired, because I don't
have one, but if I did, I would. If it really couldn't be fixed I'd find a
way to disable it and get one that works. Mine works. :-)
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Bob Giddings
2005-04-08 16:48:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Lon VanOstran
Do you have a suggestion regarding who might be able to fix a piece of
shit system which really doesn't know, and can't know how much
pressure is in any tire? The freaking system measures whether or not
one tire makes more revolutions than the others.
Lon
Don't have any idea where to get such a system repaired, because I don't
have one, but if I did, I would. If it really couldn't be fixed I'd find a
way to disable it and get one that works. Mine works. :-)
I used to be of Neon John's persuasion about gadgets and gimmicks. I
remember for 20 years thinking how stupid the idea of a powered
toothbrush was. What's next, a powered ass wiper? I mean, how hard
is it to move your hand up and down? Sheesh!

Then Oral B finally got down to around 5 bucks apiece at Sam's and I
tried one. Hey, this thing really does do a better job! So at this
time of my life I've decided to relax and give such technology
trinkets a chance, as long as they don't cost too much. I've even
quit resisting Microsoft, more or less.

I would rather they made these sensors an option instead of
compulsory, though. Maybe it'll save a few lives. Maybe it'll just
give Firestone something else to blame. We'll see. No doubt some
will work, and some won't, and there'll be a market shakeout.

Seems like it would be much more useful on a MH than a Saturn, though.
The downside of a blowout caused by tires overheating in a
Bulgemobile, which places only a thin skin of fiberglass between the
driver and Eternity, gives me pause.

The odd Saturn approaching such a BM might be better off if the BM had
one too.


Bob

www.arcatapet.net/bobgiddings
Bob Hatch
2005-04-08 16:15:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Giddings
I would rather they made these sensors an option instead of
compulsory, though. Maybe it'll save a few lives. Maybe it'll just
give Firestone something else to blame. We'll see. No doubt some
will work, and some won't, and there'll be a market shakeout.
I would prefer that they be optional also. Same with seat belts, motorcycle
helmets, child safety seats, etc.
Post by Bob Giddings
Seems like it would be much more useful on a MY than a Saturn, though.
The downside of a blowout caused by tires overheating in a
Bulgemobile, which places only a thin skin of fiberglass between the
driver and Eternity, gives me pause.
Some time's it's safety for the people in the rig, sometimes for folks who
are driving along beside it, or not even close. I go back to the fire caused
by the toad in Idaho. What are the chances a fire fighter could be killed or
seriously injured putting out a fire that could have been avoided?
Post by Bob Giddings
The odd Saturn approaching such a BM might be better off if the BM had
one too.
I would sooner spend the less than .75% of the cost of the rig on damage
prevention than many times more on damage repair. :-)
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Lon VanOstran
2005-04-09 00:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Lon VanOstran
Do you have a suggestion regarding who might be able to fix a piece of
shit system which really doesn't know, and can't know how much
pressure is in any tire? The freaking system measures whether or not
one tire makes more revolutions than the others.
Lon
Don't have any idea where to get such a system repaired, because I don't
have one, but if I did, I would. If it really couldn't be fixed I'd find a
way to disable it and get one that works. Mine works. :-)
You care a whole lot more than I do about having a system to tell me I
have a flat tire. I wouldn't spend $100, let alone $650. Different
priorities for different people. I haven't had 5 flat tires in my last
1.2 million miles, and I knew about all but one immediately. That one
just isn't very high on my worry list. I check my tires regularly,
monitor the temp when I stop, and check the car tires out of habit every
time I turn a corner with the MH. Our MH tires haven't EVER varied by
more than 1# from one month to the next, and the car tires are pretty
much the same. In all my years of driving, and all my different vehicles
and trailers, I've only had one flat which did ANY damage to anything
except itself. If I had purchased a system like yours for all 17 cars, 6
vans, 3 motor homes, and 3 pickup trucks I've owned, not to mention the
pop-ups and trailers I've owned, how much would I have spent trying to
avoid that one $528 bill. I would most likely disable the warning light
in the car before I would spend a nickel fixing it. My give-a-damn is
busted.

Lon
Greg Surratt
2005-04-08 09:29:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Neon John
I have better things to spend my money on.
It's your money, do as you like.
Post by Neon John
My vehicles' handling degrades long before the tire is low enough to
matter.
Really? What kind of change do you notice when the pressure on an inside
dual drops by 50%? What kind of change do you notice when the pressure on
the right rear tire on the toad drops by 50%?
Like I said, spend your money any way you want and I'll do the same.
From here:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0504/08/C03-143935.htm

it says:

"NHTSA said the new tire-pressure monitors would cost automakers
between $48 and $70 per vehicle, but those costs are expected to be
offset by savings to consumers of between $30 and $35 in fuel costs
and longer tire life.

The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers estimated the cost to equip
the device would be higher, up to $115 per vehicle. "

Greg
M***@juniper.net
2005-04-07 18:36:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
But not full size vans? Isn't that odd?
Nate
No, what is odd is that people are not equipping their vehicles, (TT's,
fivers, MH, toads, MDT's, etc) with aftermarket devices. They are available.
They work. They could save lives and property damage, but only a small
percentage of RVers will take the time and money to be safe. That is odd.
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
I haven't had to have an idot light tell me a tire is low in 45 years of
driving. I damned sure don't need Big Brother telling me I am going to
have to shell out more money on our next vehicle for gadgets to line
Buisness's pockets.
stuckinthemud
2005-04-07 19:03:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
But not full size vans? Isn't that odd?
Nate
No, what is odd is that people are not equipping their vehicles, (TT's,
fivers, MH, toads, MDT's, etc) with aftermarket devices. They are
available. They work. They could save lives and property damage, but only
a small percentage of RVers will take the time and money to be safe. That
is odd.
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
No...what's really odd is that bubble wrap can be purchased for a lot less
than those sensors and people still don't wrap themselves in it every time
they leave there house! Think of all the medical bills and lives that could
be saved if they simply wrapped themselves in bubble wrap.

I'm calling my congressmen to ask them to get a law on the books that states
very clearly how people should wrap themselves properly. We may need to add
some sort of device so the governement could monitor us to be sure we are
completely encapsulated in the bubble wrap. There would need to be a tube
in the top portion to allow breathing and drinking. If you want to eat then
you need to go home and un-wrap yourself. Peeing could be accomodated...but
crapping would need to be done at home too.

Why are people so stupid that they don't already do this on their own?
Thank God we have a government that can hold us by the hand and make sure we
do everything right!

Nate
Alan Balmer
2005-04-07 19:26:03 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 19:03:34 GMT, "stuckinthemud"
Post by stuckinthemud
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
But not full size vans? Isn't that odd?
Nate
No, what is odd is that people are not equipping their vehicles, (TT's,
fivers, MH, toads, MDT's, etc) with aftermarket devices. They are
available. They work. They could save lives and property damage, but only
a small percentage of RVers will take the time and money to be safe. That
is odd.
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
No...what's really odd is that bubble wrap can be purchased for a lot less
than those sensors and people still don't wrap themselves in it every time
they leave there house! Think of all the medical bills and lives that could
be saved if they simply wrapped themselves in bubble wrap.
I'm calling my congressmen to ask them to get a law on the books that states
very clearly how people should wrap themselves properly. We may need to add
some sort of device so the governement could monitor us to be sure we are
completely encapsulated in the bubble wrap. There would need to be a tube
in the top portion to allow breathing and drinking. If you want to eat then
you need to go home and un-wrap yourself.
No, that won't do. I've heard that most accidents happen at home.
Surely that's the last place you want to unwrap.
Post by stuckinthemud
Peeing could be accomodated...but
crapping would need to be done at home too.
Why are people so stupid that they don't already do this on their own?
Thank God we have a government that can hold us by the hand and make sure we
do everything right!
Nate
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
***@att.net
Bob Hatch
2005-04-07 21:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
No...what's really odd is that bubble wrap can be purchased for a lot
less than those sensors and people still don't wrap themselves in it
every time they leave there house! Think of all the medical bills
and lives that could be saved if they simply wrapped themselves in
bubble wrap.
I'm calling my congressmen to ask them to get a law on the books that
states very clearly how people should wrap themselves properly. We
may need to add some sort of device so the governement could monitor
us to be sure we are completely encapsulated in the bubble wrap. There
would need to be a tube in the top portion to allow breathing
and drinking. If you want to eat then you need to go home and
un-wrap yourself. Peeing could be accomodated...but crapping would
need to be done at home too.
Why are people so stupid that they don't already do this on their own?
Thank God we have a government that can hold us by the hand and make
sure we do everything right!
Nate
What's really odd is your idiotic assumption that I approved of the
government interference. I never said that and never implied that. What I
advocate is the use of pressure sensors. I paid for mine in addition to the
price of the rig.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
stuckinthemud
2005-04-07 23:07:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
No...what's really odd is that bubble wrap can be purchased for a lot
less than those sensors and people still don't wrap themselves in it
every time they leave there house! Think of all the medical bills
and lives that could be saved if they simply wrapped themselves in
bubble wrap.
I'm calling my congressmen to ask them to get a law on the books that
states very clearly how people should wrap themselves properly. We
may need to add some sort of device so the governement could monitor
us to be sure we are completely encapsulated in the bubble wrap. There
would need to be a tube in the top portion to allow breathing
and drinking. If you want to eat then you need to go home and
un-wrap yourself. Peeing could be accomodated...but crapping would
need to be done at home too.
Why are people so stupid that they don't already do this on their own?
Thank God we have a government that can hold us by the hand and make
sure we do everything right!
Nate
What's really odd is your idiotic assumption that I approved of the
government interference. I never said that and never implied that. What I
advocate is the use of pressure sensors. I paid for mine in addition to
the price of the rig.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
What's really odd (isn't this getting childish) is how you determined that I
accused you of supporting governement intervention. I never said you said I
said...wait a minute...where was I?

You think people should buy sensors on their own. I think they should buy
bubble wrap on their own. I think that the governement should require it.
That in now way implys that you think the governement should interfere.
Since I did not infact make an assumption as you stated, am I still
considered to be idiotic...based on these presumptions alone...no other
circumstantial evidence can be submitted...if the glove don't fit...blah
blah blah

I will grant to you that I think your idea that everyone should rush out and
buy these neat little sensors is silly and that I made lite of that opinion.
For that I certianly deserve a verbal lashing. But you really need to get
the facts straight so the lashing has some meaning. Otherwise I will never
learn to be wise and will continue to be sarcastic...and we all know how
annoying that can be.

Nate
Bob Hatch
2005-04-07 22:23:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
What's really odd (isn't this getting childish) is how you determined
that I accused you of supporting governement intervention. I never
said you said I said...wait a minute...where was I?
Well, it just looked to me that your sarcasm was pointing in that direction.
Post by stuckinthemud
You think people should buy sensors on their own. I think they
should buy bubble wrap on their own. I think that the governement
should require it.
Which is it? They should buy their own or govt should require it. Make up
your mind.

That in now way implies that you think the
Post by stuckinthemud
governement should interfere.
Well, maybe it does now, if I can understand what "in now way" means.

Since I did not infact make an
Post by stuckinthemud
assumption as you stated, am I still considered to be idiotic...based
on these presumptions alone...no other circumstantial evidence can be
submitted...if the glove don't fit...blah blah blah
Well, maybe not totally idiotic. Wait. I never said you were idiotic. I said
your assumption was idiotic. If you in fact had no such assumption it cannot
be idiotic, now can it.
Post by stuckinthemud
I will grant to you that I think your idea that everyone should rush
out and buy these neat little sensors is silly and that I made lite
of that opinion. For that I certianly deserve a verbal lashing.
So be it, but maybe later.

But
Post by stuckinthemud
you really need to get the facts straight so the lashing has some
meaning. Otherwise I will never learn to be wise and will continue
to be sarcastic...and we all know how annoying that can be.
I'm not sure there is any hope of change in your case, but that's just an
opinion. :-)
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 00:13:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
What's really odd (isn't this getting childish) is how you determined
that I accused you of supporting governement intervention. I never
said you said I said...wait a minute...where was I?
Well, it just looked to me that your sarcasm was pointing in that direction.
Post by stuckinthemud
You think people should buy sensors on their own. I think they
should buy bubble wrap on their own. I think that the governement
should require it.
Which is it? They should buy their own or govt should require it. Make up
your mind.
That in now way implies that you think the
Post by stuckinthemud
governement should interfere.
Well, maybe it does now, if I can understand what "in now way" means.
Damn!
Post by Bob Hatch
Since I did not infact make an
Post by stuckinthemud
assumption as you stated, am I still considered to be idiotic...based
on these presumptions alone...no other circumstantial evidence can be
submitted...if the glove don't fit...blah blah blah
Well, maybe not totally idiotic. Wait. I never said you were idiotic. I
said your assumption was idiotic. If you in fact had no such assumption it
cannot be idiotic, now can it.
Post by stuckinthemud
I will grant to you that I think your idea that everyone should rush
out and buy these neat little sensors is silly and that I made lite
of that opinion. For that I certianly deserve a verbal lashing.
So be it, but maybe later.
But
Post by stuckinthemud
you really need to get the facts straight so the lashing has some
meaning. Otherwise I will never learn to be wise and will continue
to be sarcastic...and we all know how annoying that can be.
I'm not sure there is any hope of change in your case, but that's just an
opinion. :-)
I think I have changed quite a bit since I first started posting on the NG
four years ago. Not neccesairtly to the good (which is a subjective
statement). But when I get bored, I spend more time refuting silly
accusations...and that probably won't change. Maybe business will pick up
and I'll spare you all. Actually...it's not the amount of business as much
as my team is just singing right now and don't really need me around the
office. At any rate...I'll try and play better in the sandbox from now on.

Nate
Bob Hatch
2005-04-07 23:18:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
I think I have changed quite a bit since I first started posting on
the NG four years ago. Not neccesairtly to the good (which is a
subjective statement). But when I get bored, I spend more time
refuting silly accusations...and that probably won't change. Maybe
business will pick up and I'll spare you all. Actually...it's not
the amount of business as much as my team is just singing right now
and don't really need me around the office. At any rate...I'll try
and play better in the sandbox from now on.
Nate
Well, I've been trying that, but sometimes I backslide. :-)
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 00:39:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
I think I have changed quite a bit since I first started posting on
the NG four years ago. Not neccesairtly to the good (which is a
subjective statement). But when I get bored, I spend more time
refuting silly accusations...and that probably won't change. Maybe
business will pick up and I'll spare you all. Actually...it's not
the amount of business as much as my team is just singing right now
and don't really need me around the office. At any rate...I'll try
and play better in the sandbox from now on.
Nate
Well, I've been trying that, but sometimes I backslide. :-)
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Group hug?

NO WAY!

LOL

Nate
bill horne
2005-04-08 01:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
No...what's really odd is that bubble wrap can be purchased for a lot
less than those sensors and people still don't wrap themselves in it
every time they leave there house! Think of all the medical bills
and lives that could be saved if they simply wrapped themselves in
bubble wrap.
I'm calling my congressmen to ask them to get a law on the books that
states very clearly how people should wrap themselves properly. We
may need to add some sort of device so the governement could monitor
us to be sure we are completely encapsulated in the bubble wrap. There
would need to be a tube in the top portion to allow breathing
and drinking. If you want to eat then you need to go home and
un-wrap yourself. Peeing could be accomodated...but crapping would
need to be done at home too.
Why are people so stupid that they don't already do this on their own?
Thank God we have a government that can hold us by the hand and make
sure we do everything right!
Nate
What's really odd is your idiotic assumption that I approved of the
government interference. I never said that and never implied that. What I
advocate is the use of pressure sensors. I paid for mine in addition to
the price of the rig.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
What's really odd (isn't this getting childish) is how you determined that I
accused you of supporting governement intervention. I never said you said I
said...wait a minute...where was I?
You think people should buy sensors on their own. I think they should buy
bubble wrap on their own. I think that the governement should require it.
That in now way implys that you think the governement should interfere.
Since I did not infact make an assumption as you stated, am I still
considered to be idiotic...based on these presumptions alone...no other
circumstantial evidence can be submitted...if the glove don't fit...blah
blah blah
I will grant to you that I think your idea that everyone should rush out and
buy these neat little sensors is silly and that I made lite of that opinion.
For that I certianly deserve a verbal lashing. But you really need to get
the facts straight so the lashing has some meaning. Otherwise I will never
learn to be wise and will continue to be sarcastic...and we all know how
annoying that can be.
Nate
Personally, I think most of this safety stuff should mandatorily
optional. That is, if there're going to have to be laws, they should
require manufacturers to provide it to buyers that want it and are
willing to pay for it.
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
Ken Bosch
2005-04-08 20:48:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
What's really odd is your idiotic assumption that I approved of the
government interference. I never said that and never implied that. What I
advocate is the use of pressure sensors. I paid for mine in addition to the
price of the rig.
Ken's bobbing & weaving to avoid the hooks & jabs, but would like to
ask what sensor system you use Bob.
I wasn't too concerned when I had my little 23' TT, but now I'm in
front of 37' and 12,000Lbs. I'm thinking it may be cheap insurance in
avoiding a catastrophe.

Ken B.
Southern California's Four Seasons:
Earthquake, Mudslide, Brushfire, and Riot
Bob Hatch
2005-04-09 01:16:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Bosch
Ken's bobbing & weaving to avoid the hooks & jabs, but would like to
ask what sensor system you use Bob.
I wasn't too concerned when I had my little 23' TT, but now I'm in
front of 37' and 12,000Lbs. I'm thinking it may be cheap insurance in
avoiding a catastrophe.
Ken B.
Earthquake, Mudslide, Brushfire, and Riot
Tire Sentry. http://www.tiresentry.com
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
MTV
2005-04-07 18:33:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Porter
The regulation, which has its roots in the Firestone tire recall of 2000,
will require automakers to attach tiny sensors to each wheel that will
signal if a tire falls 25 percent below the recommended inflation pressure.
If any one of the four tires is underinflated, the sensors set off a
dashboard warning light.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7410597/
Right now it's for passenger vehicles only, but it would be interesting to
see how this regulation would work on trucks and similar large vehicles.
What would they then consider to be the "recommended presser?" And will this
new ruling apply to Class B RVs?
My Chevy 2500 truck already came with them a year ago.

MTV
Ron Recer
2005-04-07 21:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by MTV
Post by Jon Porter
The regulation, which has its roots in the Firestone tire recall of 2000,
will require automakers to attach tiny sensors to each wheel that will
signal if a tire falls 25 percent below the recommended inflation pressure.
If any one of the four tires is underinflated, the sensors set off a
dashboard warning light.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7410597/
Right now it's for passenger vehicles only, but it would be interesting to
see how this regulation would work on trucks and similar large vehicles.
What would they then consider to be the "recommended presser?" And will this
new ruling apply to Class B RVs?
My Chevy 2500 truck already came with them a year ago.
Our 1998 Buick Park Avenue had it also, as well as our 2002 Park Avenue. I
have found it to be a valuable feature. It has saved me some grief several
times.

Ron
bill horne
2005-04-08 01:18:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Porter
Post by MTV
Post by Jon Porter
The regulation, which has its roots in the Firestone tire recall of
2000,
Post by MTV
Post by Jon Porter
will require automakers to attach tiny sensors to each wheel that will
signal if a tire falls 25 percent below the recommended inflation
pressure.
Post by MTV
Post by Jon Porter
If any one of the four tires is underinflated, the sensors set off a
dashboard warning light.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7410597/
Right now it's for passenger vehicles only, but it would be interesting
to
Post by MTV
Post by Jon Porter
see how this regulation would work on trucks and similar large vehicles.
What would they then consider to be the "recommended presser?" And will
this
Post by MTV
Post by Jon Porter
new ruling apply to Class B RVs?
My Chevy 2500 truck already came with them a year ago.
Our 1998 Buick Park Avenue had it also, as well as our 2002 Park Avenue. I
have found it to be a valuable feature. It has saved me some grief several
times.
Ron
In about 45 years of driving, I've had one flat that "maybe" could be
attributed to underinflation. I've never paid more than $75 for a
tire. How much do these monitors cost?
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
Bob Hatch
2005-04-08 01:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill horne
In about 45 years of driving, I've had one flat that "maybe" could be
attributed to underinflation. I've never paid more than $75 for a
tire. How much do these monitors cost?
Once the tire is flat, it is under inflated. If the tire picks up a nail on
the road, or on the way out of the campground it will become under inflated.

The sensors, for a 6 tire MH and 4 tire toad are around $650.00. One new 245
70 R19.5 costs around $270.00, mounted and balanced. That's if you are in a
place you can buy them cheap and also assumes zero damage to the rim or the
rig.

When the tire on my brothers fiver lost air then threw the tread the damage
to his fifth wheel was over $3500.00. True, he only had to pay the $500.00
deductible and give up his full time living place for only a week.
Thankfully there was a cheap motel close by.

When the guy in Idaho had the front tire on his toad go flat and start a
huge range fire, not only did he lose the toad, he had to fight a lawsuit
from the State of Idaho for the cost of fighting the fire. A sensor would
have avoided the whole thing.

While sitting in the parking lot of Olingers Travel Homes in Troutdale, OR a
guy pulled into the lot with his MH, and turned in front of me. I watched
the right front tire of his Jeep go flat. He picked up a bolt in the tire
just before he turned into the lot. He was moving along at a pretty good
clip and went back out to the street, down to the next drive to make another
run at pulling into the service bay. He had no idea that he was pulling the
jeep on the rim. Had he pulled away he could have done thousands of dollars
worth of damage.

The cost of the sensors, IMO, is cheap.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Hunter
2005-04-08 02:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
The cost of the sensors, IMO, is cheap
I totally agree, especially if you are towing a trailer or a toad.

You can feel it if the vehicle you are driving goes flat, but I pulled
my trailer for 20 miles once when it had a flat.

Did $1200.00 damage to the trailer.

Hunter

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!"
Lon VanOstran
2005-04-08 04:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hunter
You can feel it if the vehicle you are driving goes flat, but I pulled
my trailer for 20 miles once when it had a flat.
It's not very likely that you pulled it that far with a flat. When we
had a flat on our tow car, it took less than 3 miles to shed the rubber
and destroy a $528 rim. In 20 miles, you would have been down to the hub.

Lon
351CJ
2005-04-08 04:59:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by Hunter
You can feel it if the vehicle you are driving goes flat, but I pulled
my trailer for 20 miles once when it had a flat.
It's not very likely that you pulled it that far with a flat. When we
had a flat on our tow car, it took less than 3 miles to shed the rubber
and destroy a $528 rim. In 20 miles, you would have been down to the hub.
Lon
On a car, ya, not necessarily so on a tandem axle trailer...
Hunter
2005-04-08 13:50:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
It's not very likely that you pulled it that far with a flat. When we
Post by Lon VanOstran
had a flat on our tow car, it took less than 3 miles to shed the rubber
and destroy a $528 rim. In 20 miles, you would have been down to the hub.
I did pull that far, my trailer is a tandem axle so the wheel wasn't
on the road.

Hunter
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!"
HD in NY
2005-04-08 19:34:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hunter
Post by Lon VanOstran
It's not very likely that you pulled it that far with a flat. When we
Post by Lon VanOstran
had a flat on our tow car, it took less than 3 miles to shed the rubber
and destroy a $528 rim. In 20 miles, you would have been down to the hub.
I did pull that far, my trailer is a tandem axle so the wheel wasn't
on the road.
Hunter
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!"
Don't you have independent suspension on the Airstream?
HD in NY
Hunter
2005-04-08 22:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Don't you have independent suspension on the Airstream?>
This will explain it....

http://www.inlandrv.com/articles/dura-torque-axle-92001.htm

Hunter
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!"
HD in NY
2005-04-08 23:02:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hunter
Don't you have independent suspension on the Airstream?>
This will explain it....
http://www.inlandrv.com/articles/dura-torque-axle-92001.htm
Hunter
That's what I meant.
HD in NY
Kevin W. Miller
2005-04-08 23:16:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by HD in NY
Post by Hunter
Don't you have independent suspension on the Airstream?>
This will explain it....
http://www.inlandrv.com/articles/dura-torque-axle-92001.htm
Hunter
That's what I meant.
HD in NY
Well, why didn't you say so then she wouldn't have had to explain it!

Kevin W. Miller
HD in NY
2005-04-08 23:36:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin W. Miller
Post by HD in NY
Post by Hunter
Don't you have independent suspension on the Airstream?>
This will explain it....
http://www.inlandrv.com/articles/dura-torque-axle-92001.htm
Hunter
That's what I meant.
HD in NY
Well, why didn't you say so then she wouldn't have had to explain it!
Kevin W. Miller
Yabut, then you wouldn't have seen the link. I knew they had
independent suspension, from the mid 60's I think.
HD in NY who inherited a '67 Airstream
Kevin W. Miller
2005-04-08 23:47:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by HD in NY
Post by Kevin W. Miller
Post by HD in NY
Post by Hunter
Don't you have independent suspension on the Airstream?>
This will explain it....
http://www.inlandrv.com/articles/dura-torque-axle-92001.htm
Hunter
That's what I meant.
HD in NY
Well, why didn't you say so then she wouldn't have had to explain it!
Kevin W. Miller
Yabut, then you wouldn't have seen the link. I knew they had
independent suspension, from the mid 60's I think.
HD in NY who inherited a '67 Airstream
Well, it can't be that great. I didn't see any magnets.

Kevin W. Miller
351CJ
2005-04-08 02:31:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by bill horne
In about 45 years of driving, I've had one flat that "maybe" could be
attributed to underinflation. I've never paid more than $75 for a
tire. How much do these monitors cost?
Once the tire is flat, it is under inflated. If the tire picks up a nail on
the road, or on the way out of the campground it will become under inflated.
The sensors, for a 6 tire MH and 4 tire toad are around $650.00.
The cost of the sensors, IMO, is cheap.
Do you have any name brands or links to these sensors? I have not
thought about or looked for them, but will look now. Maybe you can
shorten my search process...
Bob Hatch
2005-04-08 01:43:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by 351CJ
Do you have any name brands or links to these sensors? I have not
thought about or looked for them, but will look now. Maybe you can
shorten my search process...
I use the Tire Sentry. http://www.tiresentry.com

I like them for several reasons. You do not have to dismount the tires to
install them. They can be easily moved from rig to rig. They are a self
install item. The company has great service and support policies. The sensor
batteries will last about 12 months, give or take, and are not special, they
are hearing aide batteries. If you change your rig to one that requires the
next level up, or down, the company will reset your sensors for a minimal
cost. (Don't know what the cost is, but when I asked this question I know I
was surprised at the low cost.)
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
351CJ
2005-04-08 04:20:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by 351CJ
Do you have any name brands or links to these sensors? I have not
thought about or looked for them, but will look now. Maybe you can
shorten my search process...
I use the Tire Sentry. http://www.tiresentry.com
I like them for several reasons. You do not have to dismount the tires to
install them. They can be easily moved from rig to rig. They are a self
install item. The company has great service and support policies. The sensor
batteries will last about 12 months, give or take, and are not special, they
are hearing aide batteries. If you change your rig to one that requires the
next level up, or down, the company will reset your sensors for a minimal
cost. (Don't know what the cost is, but when I asked this question I know I
was surprised at the low cost.)
Thank You.
Greg Surratt
2005-04-08 09:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
I use the Tire Sentry. http://www.tiresentry.com
I like them for several reasons. You do not have to dismount the tires to
install them. They can be easily moved from rig to rig. They are a self
install item. The company has great service and support policies. The sensor
batteries will last about 12 months, give or take, and are not special, they
are hearing aide batteries. If you change your rig to one that requires the
next level up, or down, the company will reset your sensors for a minimal
cost. (Don't know what the cost is, but when I asked this question I know I
was surprised at the low cost.)
Still don't know what the cost is, but under the "Features" tab, it
says:

"** A special hand-held tool is available to re-set wheel sensors".

Figure the cost of the tool in with the cost of the new rig and it
probably won't make a noticeable difference.

Greg
Bob Hatch
2005-04-08 15:07:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Surratt
Still don't know what the cost is, but under the "Features" tab, it
The cost is "around $650.00". If you want an accurate cost you'll have to
contact Tire Sentry. The actual cost will depend on what type of system you
need. Do you have a MH with 6 tires and a toad with 4, or a MH with 8 tires
and toad with 4. Maybe you have a MDT with 6 wheels and a fiver with 6
wheels. Or possibly a MDT with 6 wheels and a fiver with 8 wheels. The
systems are customized for your application. If you're serious about a
system, call Tire Sentry.
Post by Greg Surratt
"** A special hand-held tool is available to re-set wheel sensors".
Figure the cost of the tool in with the cost of the new rig and it
probably won't make a noticeable difference.
The tool mentioned was for the older system. The new sensors can be changed
with a small screwdriver, (cost about 29 cents), but you most likely have
one in your tool box now. The sensors are built with a range of tire
pressures, so if I change from my gas rig with 19.5 tires to a big diesel
with 22.5 tires I'll have to have the sensors changed by Tire Sentry, at a
cost of under $30.00 each.
Post by Greg Surratt
Greg
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Alan Balmer
2005-04-08 16:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by 351CJ
Do you have any name brands or links to these sensors? I have not
thought about or looked for them, but will look now. Maybe you can
shorten my search process...
I use the Tire Sentry. http://www.tiresentry.com
Sort of an odd website. They don't give specs like
accuracy/resolution, they don't give a clue as to how much it costs or
even where to buy it. The have a "Link to related information" which
actually goes to some company selling advertising. I'm suspicious that
the website was hijacked.
Post by Bob Hatch
I like them for several reasons. You do not have to dismount the tires to
install them. They can be easily moved from rig to rig. They are a self
install item. The company has great service and support policies. The sensor
batteries will last about 12 months, give or take, and are not special, they
are hearing aide batteries. If you change your rig to one that requires the
next level up, or down, the company will reset your sensors for a minimal
cost. (Don't know what the cost is, but when I asked this question I know I
was surprised at the low cost.)
Some information that *is* on the website - they now say that battery
life for the new models is 2-3 years, and you can apparently reset the
pressure yourself with a special tool.
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
***@att.net
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 16:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Balmer
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by 351CJ
Do you have any name brands or links to these sensors? I have not
thought about or looked for them, but will look now. Maybe you can
shorten my search process...
I use the Tire Sentry. http://www.tiresentry.com
Sort of an odd website. They don't give specs like
accuracy/resolution, they don't give a clue as to how much it costs or
even where to buy it. The have a "Link to related information" which
actually goes to some company selling advertising. I'm suspicious that
the website was hijacked.
Post by Bob Hatch
I like them for several reasons. You do not have to dismount the tires to
install them. They can be easily moved from rig to rig. They are a self
install item. The company has great service and support policies. The sensor
batteries will last about 12 months, give or take, and are not special, they
are hearing aide batteries. If you change your rig to one that requires the
next level up, or down, the company will reset your sensors for a minimal
cost. (Don't know what the cost is, but when I asked this question I know I
was surprised at the low cost.)
Some information that *is* on the website - they now say that battery
life for the new models is 2-3 years, and you can apparently reset the
pressure yourself with a special tool.
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
I got the impression that it was a wholesaler's website. You'll need to
find a retailer to find a price. But I would think the specs would be
there.

Nate
Bob Hatch
2005-04-08 16:21:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
I got the impression that it was a wholesaler's website. You'll need
to find a retailer to find a price. But I would think the specs
would be there.
Your impression is partly right, but you buy them from that place. Go to the
Contact Us page and call the number. They will then quote you a price based
on your setup.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Kevin W. Miller
2005-04-08 19:59:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
I got the impression that it was a wholesaler's website. You'll need
to find a retailer to find a price. But I would think the specs
would be there.
Your impression is partly right, but you buy them from that place. Go to
the Contact Us page and call the number. They will then quote you a price
based on your setup.
--
There's a similar product here:

http://www.doranmfg.com/

Kevin W. Miller
Cliff
2005-04-08 19:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin W. Miller
http://www.doranmfg.com/
Kevin W. Miller
Hey, I like the idea that it gives you the actual tire pressure. May look
into that after I recover from filling my 150 gal. Diesel tank.
--
Cliff
Our Web Page http://www.cj-and-m.com
.
.
For you and me, today is all we have; tomorrow is a mirage that may never
become a reality.
Louis L'Amour (1908 - 1988)
Steve Wolf
2005-04-08 21:58:20 UTC
Permalink
OUCH! $700! Might be a few years--while that price drops--before I see
such a system. Here's where someone can make a fortune. There's about $100
in electronics involved. There are a couple thousand RVers who would buy
a $300 system.

Steve
www.wolfswords.com under the motorhome link
Post by Kevin W. Miller
http://www.doranmfg.com/
Bob Hatch
2005-04-08 16:19:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Balmer
Sort of an odd website. They don't give specs like
accuracy/resolution, they don't give a clue as to how much it costs or
even where to buy it. The have a "Link to related information" which
actually goes to some company selling advertising. I'm suspicious that
the website was hijacked.
No it's not hijacked. Go to the contact us link, call the 800 line and talk
to Bill, tell him what your setup is and he'll give you a price of a system
designed for your needs.
Post by Alan Balmer
Some information that *is* on the website - they now say that battery
life for the new models is 2-3 years, and you can apparently reset the
pressure yourself with a special tool.
As I said elsewhere, the special tool is for the older models. The new ones
can be reset with a small screwdriver. I have them, and have done so.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Alan Balmer
2005-04-08 18:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Alan Balmer
Sort of an odd website. They don't give specs like
accuracy/resolution, they don't give a clue as to how much it costs or
even where to buy it. The have a "Link to related information" which
actually goes to some company selling advertising. I'm suspicious that
the website was hijacked.
No it's not hijacked.
Did you try following that link? I really don't think it belongs to
Fleet Specialties. At least in my terminology, "hijacked" doesn't
necessarily mean that the whole website is compromised, just that
there is content put there by someone without the knowledge or consent
of the owner.
Post by Bob Hatch
Go to the contact us link, call the 800 line and talk
to Bill, tell him what your setup is and he'll give you a price of a system
designed for your needs.
Post by Alan Balmer
Some information that *is* on the website - they now say that battery
life for the new models is 2-3 years, and you can apparently reset the
pressure yourself with a special tool.
As I said elsewhere, the special tool is for the older models. The new ones
can be reset with a small screwdriver. I have them, and have done so.
Odd that they would mention the special tool under the "new and
improved" features.
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
***@att.net
Bob Hatch
2005-04-08 18:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Balmer
Did you try following that link? I really don't think it belongs to
Fleet Specialties. At least in my terminology, "hijacked" doesn't
necessarily mean that the whole website is compromised, just that
there is content put there by someone without the knowledge or consent
of the owner.
Not only did I follow the link, I posted it. When I called Fleet Specialties
to order my system it's the site I went to to get the number to call to
order. It's the site I went to to get the number when I had questions about
resetting the sensors when I changed tire pressure on the MH. Same site I
went to when I needed information about the "special tool" this morning.
It's not the best web site in the world, but it's the site for Tire Sentry
that is made and sold by Fleet Specialties.
Post by Alan Balmer
Post by Bob Hatch
Go to the contact us link, call the 800 line and talk
to Bill, tell him what your setup is and he'll give you a price of a
system designed for your needs.
Odd that they would mention the special tool under the "new and
improved" features.
Yes it is, but when I asked Bill about that this AM he told me that's what
the tool was.

I have no affiliation with Tire Sentry or Fleet. I use their product and am
happy with it. It has saved me and several other people I know lots of
grief.

The web site is what it is. Not well designed, but a legitimate site.
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
Alan Balmer
2005-04-08 21:10:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Alan Balmer
Did you try following that link? I really don't think it belongs to
Fleet Specialties. At least in my terminology, "hijacked" doesn't
necessarily mean that the whole website is compromised, just that
there is content put there by someone without the knowledge or consent
of the owner.
Not only did I follow the link, I posted it.
Not that link :-) My original statement, which got trimmed, was "They
have a "Link to related information" which actually goes to some
company selling advertising."

I was talking about the link which appears on their website, top
right, displayed text "Link to Related Information". The URL displayed
by the rollover is www.safetrip.org, but the actual target is
http://www.spiked.org/ . "Add a spike to your site's revenue." I
suspect that the link is an example of the advertising techniques
they're selling.

Now that I think about it, it's probably the real safetrip.org site
that's being hijacked or diverted. I wonder if this is an instance of
the current DNS cache poisoning attacks. For folks who haven't heard
of it, here's a description from The Register:

"The attacks aim to redirect consumers to potentially malicious web
servers by changing the records used to convert domain names to
numerical addresses. Known as domain-name system (DNS) cache
poisoning, the decade-old technique has been repurposed as another way
for online fraudsters to install aggressive advertising software, or
adware, on victims' computers and redirect people to pay-per-click Web
sites."
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
***@att.net
Kevin W. Miller
2005-04-08 21:36:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Balmer
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by Alan Balmer
Did you try following that link? I really don't think it belongs to
Fleet Specialties. At least in my terminology, "hijacked" doesn't
necessarily mean that the whole website is compromised, just that
there is content put there by someone without the knowledge or consent
of the owner.
Not only did I follow the link, I posted it.
Not that link :-) My original statement, which got trimmed, was "They
have a "Link to related information" which actually goes to some
company selling advertising."
I was talking about the link which appears on their website, top
right, displayed text "Link to Related Information". The URL displayed
by the rollover is www.safetrip.org, but the actual target is
http://www.spiked.org/ . "Add a spike to your site's revenue." I
suspect that the link is an example of the advertising techniques
they're selling.
Now that I think about it, it's probably the real safetrip.org site
that's being hijacked or diverted. I wonder if this is an instance of
the current DNS cache poisoning attacks. For folks who haven't heard
"The attacks aim to redirect consumers to potentially malicious web
servers by changing the records used to convert domain names to
numerical addresses. Known as domain-name system (DNS) cache
poisoning, the decade-old technique has been repurposed as another way
for online fraudsters to install aggressive advertising software, or
adware, on victims' computers and redirect people to pay-per-click Web
sites."
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
I'd bet it's a boo-boo at the domain registrar. They're both using "Domains
By Proxy" and show different DNS server info. My guess is someone there
screwed up. While DNS cache poisoning isn't beyond the realm of possiblity I
think it's less likely than simple human error.

Kevin W. Miller
RichA
2005-04-08 20:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Balmer
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by 351CJ
Do you have any name brands or links to these sensors? I have not
thought about or looked for them, but will look now. Maybe you can
shorten my search process...
I use the Tire Sentry. http://www.tiresentry.com
Sort of an odd website. They don't give specs like
accuracy/resolution, they don't give a clue as to how much it costs or
even where to buy it. The have a "Link to related information" which
actually goes to some company selling advertising. I'm suspicious that
the website was hijacked.
Post by Bob Hatch
I like them for several reasons. You do not have to dismount the tires to
install them. They can be easily moved from rig to rig. They are a self
install item. The company has great service and support policies. The sensor
batteries will last about 12 months, give or take, and are not special, they
are hearing aide batteries. If you change your rig to one that requires the
next level up, or down, the company will reset your sensors for a minimal
cost. (Don't know what the cost is, but when I asked this question I know I
was surprised at the low cost.)
Some information that *is* on the website - they now say that battery
life for the new models is 2-3 years, and you can apparently reset the
pressure yourself with a special tool.
Hi,
I've been looking for a system for awhile. Bob told me about his and
his experience with it which finely made me decide to get one. I am
going to get a system similar to his called a Pressure Pro System.

There are basically 3 systems on the aftermarket for RV's right now.
The system Bob got, Tire Sentry, another system that the sensors
mount inside the tires and gives PSI and temp readouts. A pain to get
mounted and to fix if you have problems, and the Pressure Pro System.

The Pressure Pro costs about the same as Tire Sentry, about $619 for a
ten tire set up. But does have a tire pressure read out so you can
check your tire pressures before you start out, or while going down
the road for that matter.

Just something for others looking for a monitoring system to think
about.

Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
351CJ
2005-04-08 23:54:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
Hi,
I've been looking for a system for awhile. Bob told me about his and
his experience with it which finely made me decide to get one. I am
going to get a system similar to his called a Pressure Pro System.
There are basically 3 systems on the aftermarket for RV's right now.
The system Bob got, Tire Sentry, another system that the sensors
mount inside the tires and gives PSI and temp readouts. A pain to get
mounted and to fix if you have problems, and the Pressure Pro System.
The Pressure Pro costs about the same as Tire Sentry, about $619 for a
ten tire set up. But does have a tire pressure read out so you can
check your tire pressures before you start out, or while going down
the road for that matter.
Just something for others looking for a monitoring system to think
about.
Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Got a link?
Ken Bosch
2005-04-08 21:48:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by 351CJ
Do you have any name brands or links to these sensors? I have not
thought about or looked for them, but will look now. Maybe you can
shorten my search process...
I use the Tire Sentry. http://www.tiresentry.com
Thanks, disregard my previous request for info.....

Ken B.

Southern California's Four Seasons:
Earthquake, Mudslide, Brushfire, and Riot
M***@juniper.net
2005-04-07 18:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Porter
The regulation, which has its roots in the Firestone tire recall of 2000,
will require automakers to attach tiny sensors to each wheel that will
signal if a tire falls 25 percent below the recommended inflation pressure.
If any one of the four tires is underinflated, the sensors set off a
dashboard warning light.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7410597/
Right now it's for passenger vehicles only, but it would be interesting to
see how this regulation would work on trucks and similar large vehicles.
What would they then consider to be the "recommended presser?" And will this
new ruling apply to Class B RVs?
More laws by the power hungry Government(Big Buisness) regulators to
help Buisnesss squeeze more money for gizmos on new car purchasers.
Lone Haranguer
2005-04-07 21:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@juniper.net
More laws by the power hungry Government(Big Buisness) regulators to
help Buisnesss squeeze more money for gizmos on new car purchasers.
I hear diaper sensors in nursing homes are the next item on the
agenda. Where will it all end?
LZ
bill horne
2005-04-08 01:27:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@juniper.net
More laws by the power hungry Government(Big Buisness) regulators to
help Buisnesss squeeze more money for gizmos on new car purchasers.
I hear diaper sensors in nursing homes are the next item on the agenda.
Where will it all end?
LZ
Level and temp sensors in bathtubs to prevent drownings and scaldings?

Up/down indicators on crappers to prevent Wet Butt Syndrome?

Guards on forks to prevent lip punctures?

Radar controlled steering locks to prevent left turns when there's
oncoming traffic?

BAC controlled valves on beer bottles?
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
stuckinthemud
2005-04-07 23:12:07 UTC
Permalink
<***@juniper.net> wrote in message news:s%e5e.44111$***@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
?
More laws by the power hungry Government(Big Buisness) regulators to help
Buisnesss squeeze more money for gizmos on new car purchasers.
The tire companies were blamed by the car makers for the rollovers. Both
have powerful lobbies. The new law makes the sensor companies liable for
rollovers. Sensor companies don't have as big of a loby. They are trying
to build a product line...this will make them rich...they are skewed and
don't even realize they are the pawns in this game.

(Standard Disclaimer: This is only my opinion. I have no refutable facts to
support it. I've already been called an idiot. I am tired of doing
research to support my campfire conversations...it gets old)

Nate
Bob Hatch
2005-04-07 22:24:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
(Standard Disclaimer: This is only my opinion. I have no refutable
facts to support it. I've already been called an idiot. I am tired
of doing research to support my campfire conversations...it gets old)
Nate
Who called you an idiot? When? Where? At work maybe?
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 00:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
(Standard Disclaimer: This is only my opinion. I have no refutable
facts to support it. I've already been called an idiot. I am tired
of doing research to support my campfire conversations...it gets old)
Nate
Who called you an idiot? When? Where? At work maybe?
--
"No man can climb out beyond the limitations
of his own character." Viscount John Morley
http://www.bobhatch.com
I don't care to keep track of who. You've politely cleared up my assumption
that you were one of them. But you were certianly not the only one. Where
there is a Will...there is a Way.

Nate
Lon VanOstran
2005-04-08 04:32:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Hatch
Post by stuckinthemud
(Standard Disclaimer: This is only my opinion. I have no refutable
facts to support it. I've already been called an idiot. I am tired
of doing research to support my campfire conversations...it gets old)
Nate
Who called you an idiot? When? Where? At work maybe?
Hey! I must have called him that at least once. <g>

Lon
Alan Balmer
2005-04-07 23:41:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 23:12:07 GMT, "stuckinthemud"
Post by stuckinthemud
?
More laws by the power hungry Government(Big Buisness) regulators to help
Buisnesss squeeze more money for gizmos on new car purchasers.
The tire companies were blamed by the car makers for the rollovers. Both
have powerful lobbies. The new law makes the sensor companies liable for
rollovers. Sensor companies don't have as big of a loby. They are trying
to build a product line...this will make them rich.
Yes, and then they'll get big lobbies, and what do we do then?
Post by stuckinthemud
..they are skewed and
don't even realize they are the pawns in this game.
(Standard Disclaimer: This is only my opinion. I have no refutable facts to
support it. I've already been called an idiot. I am tired of doing
research to support my campfire conversations...it gets old)
Nate
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
***@att.net
bill horne
2005-04-08 01:35:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Balmer
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 23:12:07 GMT, "stuckinthemud"
Post by stuckinthemud
?
More laws by the power hungry Government(Big Buisness) regulators to help
Buisnesss squeeze more money for gizmos on new car purchasers.
The tire companies were blamed by the car makers for the rollovers. Both
have powerful lobbies. The new law makes the sensor companies liable for
rollovers. Sensor companies don't have as big of a loby. They are trying
to build a product line...this will make them rich.
Yes, and then they'll get big lobbies, and what do we do then?
Post by stuckinthemud
..they are skewed and
don't even realize they are the pawns in this game.
(Standard Disclaimer: This is only my opinion. I have no refutable facts to
support it. I've already been called an idiot. I am tired of doing
research to support my campfire conversations...it gets old)
Nate
Contrary to apparent popular belief, "lobby" is not a 4-letter word.
Neither is "argue".
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 14:42:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill horne
Post by Alan Balmer
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 23:12:07 GMT, "stuckinthemud"
Post by stuckinthemud
?
Post by M***@juniper.net
More laws by the power hungry Government(Big Buisness) regulators to
help Buisnesss squeeze more money for gizmos on new car purchasers.
The tire companies were blamed by the car makers for the rollovers. Both
have powerful lobbies. The new law makes the sensor companies liable for
rollovers. Sensor companies don't have as big of a loby. They are
trying to build a product line...this will make them rich.
Yes, and then they'll get big lobbies, and what do we do then?
Post by stuckinthemud
..they are skewed and don't even realize they are the pawns in this game.
(Standard Disclaimer: This is only my opinion. I have no refutable facts
to support it. I've already been called an idiot. I am tired of doing
research to support my campfire conversations...it gets old)
Nate
Contrary to apparent popular belief, "lobby" is not a 4-letter word.
Neither is "argue".
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
DOH! I was going to make a funny pun with that, then decided against it and
forgot to change it back to a 5 letter word.

Nate (who has a whole box of excuses left)
bill horne
2005-04-08 01:33:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
(Standard Disclaimer: This is only my opinion. I have no refutable facts to
support it. I've already been called an idiot. I am tired of doing
research to support my campfire conversations...it gets old)
Nate
A person who cannot support his claims, opinions, or unadulterated
dogshit should either keep his mouth shut or learn to expect and
accept incoming.
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
Will Sill
2005-04-08 11:56:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill horne
A person who cannot support his claims, opinions, or unadulterated
dogshit should either keep his mouth shut or learn to expect and
accept incoming.
I wish I'd writ that re: Altar's fanatasy Miata!

Will Sill
"Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by
tyrants." Wm. Penn
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 14:48:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
(Standard Disclaimer: This is only my opinion. I have no refutable facts
to support it. I've already been called an idiot. I am tired of doing
research to support my campfire conversations...it gets old)
Nate
A person who cannot support his claims, opinions, or unadulterated dogshit
should either keep his mouth shut or learn to expect and accept incoming.
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
Does it help to let you know I accept it? See...my thinking is that if I
don't express my views how will you all ever get a chance to correct them
for me?

It may be a lazy way of learning, but I learned a long time ago that
bellying up to the bar next to the old geezer was way more enlightening than
sitting next to the young pretty girl. I learn so much listening to
experienced (I was going to say old) gentlemen than I ever did from my
professors at college.

It's interesting that one would refute the disclaimer so quickly, but not
the statement that was disclaimed. That indicates to me that it's not so
much about the misinformation as it is about the act of arguing. Am I
wrong?

Nate
Lone Haranguer
2005-04-08 15:16:30 UTC
Permalink
stuckinthemud wrote:

I learn so much listening to
Post by stuckinthemud
experienced (I was going to say old) gentlemen than I ever did from my
professors at college.
At what age did you learn this nugget of wisdom? That while you were
nodding off listening to some professor, your peers were out actually
working and gaining experience that was as valuable or more so than
what you were absorbing?
LZ
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 15:37:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
I learn so much listening to
Post by stuckinthemud
experienced (I was going to say old) gentlemen than I ever did from my
professors at college.
At what age did you learn this nugget of wisdom? That while you were
nodding off listening to some professor, your peers were out actually
working and gaining experience that was as valuable or more so than what
you were absorbing?
LZ
I was 23, having just returned from a 4 year stint in the Army Infantry as
an E5. I enrolled in college to burn up some of my VEAP benefits. While I
was enrolled full time I also managed a pet store full time and worked
Friday, Saturday and Sunday as an automotive mechanic. In between leaving
school and going to work I stopped at the bar and grill for a bite to eat.
This is where I learned the value of listening to older gentelmen.
BTW...one of those older gentlemen I ran into regularly also happened to be
my Political Science Professor. He was a lot more informative in this
informal setting, but he refussed to give me any heads up on any of the
curriculum I was suppose to pay for.

At that point in my life I really had no peers. Did not have time for them.

It all worked out for me, thank you very much. I should be able to retire
in 5 more years now so I can enjoy the last half of my life. The next 5
years is going to be brutal though.

Nate
Lone Haranguer
2005-04-08 16:23:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
It all worked out for me, thank you very much. I should be able to retire
in 5 more years now so I can enjoy the last half of my life. The next 5
years is going to be brutal though.
Hope it's worth it to you.
LZ
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 16:44:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lone Haranguer
Post by stuckinthemud
It all worked out for me, thank you very much. I should be able to
retire in 5 more years now so I can enjoy the last half of my life. The
next 5 years is going to be brutal though.
Hope it's worth it to you.
LZ
Well...I'll either have a heartattqack and it will all be over with or I'll
make it and then it will be worth it. Hopefully the heartattack will take
my life and not leave me debilitated and have my wife and parents fight over
my life support issues for 15 years.

But I think a person has to assume a cetian level of risk if they are to
succeed in anything.

Nate
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 16:46:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
Post by Lone Haranguer
Post by stuckinthemud
It all worked out for me, thank you very much. I should be able to
retire in 5 more years now so I can enjoy the last half of my life. The
next 5 years is going to be brutal though.
Hope it's worth it to you.
LZ
Well...I'll either have a heartattqack and it will all be over with or
I'll make it and then it will be worth it. Hopefully the heartattack will
take my life and not leave me debilitated and have my wife and parents
fight over my life support issues for 15 years.
But I think a person has to assume a cetian level of risk if they are to
succeed in anything.
Nate
HEART ATTACK! Sorry!

Nate
Lone Haranguer
2005-04-08 20:55:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
But I think a person has to assume a cetian level of risk if they are to
succeed in anything.
Also good to have a backup plan.
LZ
stuckinthemud
2005-04-08 22:04:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lone Haranguer
Post by stuckinthemud
But I think a person has to assume a cetian level of risk if they are to
succeed in anything.
Also good to have a backup plan.
LZ
I tell my students to have a backup plan for their backup plan.

Nate
bill horne
2005-04-08 19:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuckinthemud
It's interesting that one would refute the disclaimer so quickly, but not
the statement that was disclaimed. That indicates to me that it's not so
much about the misinformation as it is about the act of arguing. Am I
wrong?
Nate
Depends on one's definition of argue. Mine's one or more of:
---------------------------------------------
1. To put forth reasons for or against; debate
2. To attempt to prove by reasoning; maintain or contend
3. To give evidence of; indicate.
4. To persuade or influence (another), as by presenting reasons
----------------------------------------------
The important words being "reasons", "reasoning", and "evidence".
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
M***@juniper.net
2005-04-09 00:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Porter
The regulation, which has its roots in the Firestone tire recall of 2000,
will require automakers to attach tiny sensors to each wheel that will
signal if a tire falls 25 percent below the recommended inflation pressure.
If any one of the four tires is underinflated, the sensors set off a
dashboard warning light.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7410597/
Right now it's for passenger vehicles only, but it would be interesting to
see how this regulation would work on trucks and similar large vehicles.
What would they then consider to be the "recommended presser?" And will this
new ruling apply to Class B RVs?
Everyone seems to miss the obvious. If you want tire pressure monitors
then by all means buy some but don't force me to buy a device, I don't
want and don't need!
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