Windows in Decline

[Gene Malvern]

The time of Windows as the world's dominant
operating system are coming to an end.

More than half of web accesses are now done by
tablet or smartphone. The much simpler interfaces
of the IPad and Android are luring web users away
from the desktop and even the laptop. Windows is
too complicated, too clumsy, and too vulnerable to
viruses and other web nastiness.

Windows will continue to be the operating system of
business. It's an excellent platform for word
processing and spreadsheet work. It will continue
to be used in creative activities such as video
editing and photo alteration. It will soldier on as
a platform for CAD/CAM and numerous other
specialized uses. A tower loaded with Windows will
still make a damned good gaming platform.

But Windows, as a mass-market route to the web, is
finished, meaning it will become a less prominent
part of the popular culture, and less influential
in deciding the direction of computing and popular
information handling in the future.

Thoughts?

[Paul]

Post by Gene Malvern
The time of Windows as the world's dominant
operating system are coming to an end.
More than half of web accesses are now done by
tablet or smartphone. The much simpler interfaces
of the IPad and Android are luring web users away
from the desktop and even the laptop. Windows is
too complicated, too clumsy, and too vulnerable to
viruses and other web nastiness.
Windows will continue to be the operating system of
business. It's an excellent platform for word
processing and spreadsheet work. It will continue
to be used in creative activities such as video
editing and photo alteration. It will soldier on as
a platform for CAD/CAM and numerous other
specialized uses. A tower loaded with Windows will
still make a damned good gaming platform.
But Windows, as a mass-market route to the web, is
finished, meaning it will become a less prominent
part of the popular culture, and less influential
in deciding the direction of computing and popular
information handling in the future.
Thoughts?

We'll always have the WinXP BSOD on the airport
arrivals and departures screen.

And you have to admit that Clippy is a cultural
phenomenon that will never be forgotten.

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

Paul

[pyotr filipivich]

Post by Paul
We'll always have the WinXP BSOD on the airport
arrivals and departures screen.
And you have to admit that Clippy is a cultural
phenomenon that will never be forgotten.

No matter how hard we try.

Post by Paul
https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/clippy-fraud-800x450.jp

[Wolf K]

Post by Gene Malvern
The time of Windows as the world's dominant
operating system are coming to an end.
More than half of web accesses are now done by
tablet or smartphone. The much simpler interfaces
of the IPad and Android are luring web users away
from the desktop and even the laptop. Windows is
too complicated, too clumsy, and too vulnerable to
viruses and other web nastiness.
Windows will continue to be the operating system of
business. It's an excellent platform for word
processing and spreadsheet work. It will continue
to be used in creative activities such as video
editing and photo alteration. It will soldier on as
a platform for CAD/CAM and numerous other
specialized uses. A tower loaded with Windows will
still make a damned good gaming platform.
But Windows, as a mass-market route to the web, is
finished, meaning it will become a less prominent
part of the popular culture, and less influential
in deciding the direction of computing and popular
information handling in the future.
Thoughts?

Not just Windows, all OSs. The decline will be relative: the Windows etc
numbers will increase in the short term, but limited-use and single-use
device will increase faster. An analogous effect was seen when
developing countries opted for cell-phones instead of land-lines.

I think this is the logical consequence of OS- and hardware-neutral
protocols. The net, WI-fi and Bluetooth don't care about OS and
hardware. "Only connect!" said E. M. Forster, in a different context.
But he saw a universal: connection is what makes us human. We are a
supremely social species.

[T]

Post by Wolf K
Not just Windows, all OSs.

You have a point. Folks now do not care about the OS, or
even know what it is. They only care about the apps they
can run

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by T

Post by Wolf K
Not just Windows, all OSs.

You have a point. Folks now do not care about the OS, or
even know what it is. They only care about the apps they
can run

That doesn't mean the OSs are in decline: they're still there, and, er,
operating! Just perhaps not being _discussed_ as much.

[g***@internet.none]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:43:41 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by T

Post by Wolf K
Not just Windows, all OSs.

You have a point. Folks now do not care about the OS, or
even know what it is. They only care about the apps they
can run

That doesn't mean the OSs are in decline: they're still there, and, er,
operating! Just perhaps not being _discussed_ as much.

I dont even have an operating system on my computer. I just use the
computer the way it is. Operating systems are just a waste of computer
power and storage space, and they are not needed.

[Paul]

Post by g***@internet.none
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:43:41 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by T

Post by Wolf K
Not just Windows, all OSs.

You have a point. Folks now do not care about the OS, or
even know what it is. They only care about the apps they
can run

That doesn't mean the OSs are in decline: they're still there, and, er,
operating! Just perhaps not being _discussed_ as much.

I dont even have an operating system on my computer. I just use the
computer the way it is. Operating systems are just a waste of computer
power and storage space, and they are not needed.

It's true.

Boot a memtest86+ CD and you have no OS, and it still does
something useful (tests memory).

It proves that OSes aren't as essential as they look.

Paul

[mike]

Post by Paul

Post by g***@internet.none
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:43:41 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by T

Post by Wolf K
Not just Windows, all OSs.

You have a point. Folks now do not care about the OS, or
even know what it is. They only care about the apps they
can run

That doesn't mean the OSs are in decline: they're still there, and,
er, operating! Just perhaps not being _discussed_ as much.

I dont even have an operating system on my computer. I just use the
computer the way it is. Operating systems are just a waste of computer
power and storage space, and they are not needed.

It's true.
Boot a memtest86+ CD and you have no OS, and it still does
something useful (tests memory).

If your hardware can bring up a display, recognize a keyboard,
translate text or clicks into a starting memory location on a CD,
manage memory, format/display results...
you have an operating system.

Post by Paul
It proves that OSes aren't as essential as they look.
Paul

I used to dream of the day when linux was as stable as windows.
Never did I imagine that parity would be achieved by windows
declining into the chaos that engulfs and stifles linux.

[Paul]

Post by mike

Post by Paul

Post by g***@internet.none
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:43:41 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by T

Post by Wolf K
Not just Windows, all OSs.

You have a point. Folks now do not care about the OS, or
even know what it is. They only care about the apps they
can run

That doesn't mean the OSs are in decline: they're still there, and,
er, operating! Just perhaps not being _discussed_ as much.

I dont even have an operating system on my computer. I just use the
computer the way it is. Operating systems are just a waste of computer
power and storage space, and they are not needed.

It's true.
Boot a memtest86+ CD and you have no OS, and it still does
something useful (tests memory).

If your hardware can bring up a display, recognize a keyboard,
translate text or clicks into a starting memory location on a CD,
manage memory, format/display results...
you have an operating system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

It's the modularity that makes it an operating system.

If it offers services to third parties, in a standardized way,
then it's an operating system.

If it's just a giant polling loop with fixed functions,
then it's a "program".

In the same way, that if we entered the control room of a
traditional elevator complex, and looked at the ladder
logic clacking away, nobody would say an operating system
was present. But, what you were looking at, was a "program".
It had inputs and outputs, and a fixed function (raise
and lower elevator car, without killing anyone).

Paul

[mike]

Post by Paul

Post by mike

Post by Paul

Post by g***@internet.none
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:43:41 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by T

Post by Wolf K
Not just Windows, all OSs.

You have a point. Folks now do not care about the OS, or
even know what it is. They only care about the apps they
can run

That doesn't mean the OSs are in decline: they're still there, and,
er, operating! Just perhaps not being _discussed_ as much.

I dont even have an operating system on my computer. I just use the
computer the way it is. Operating systems are just a waste of computer
power and storage space, and they are not needed.

It's true.
Boot a memtest86+ CD and you have no OS, and it still does
something useful (tests memory).

If your hardware can bring up a display, recognize a keyboard,
translate text or clicks into a starting memory location on a CD,
manage memory, format/display results...
you have an operating system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system
It's the modularity that makes it an operating system.
If it offers services to third parties, in a standardized way,
then it's an operating system.

Change the keyboard. Does it still work?
Change the display. Does it still work?
Change the ram quantity and format. Does it still work?
Change the CD hardware. Does it still work?
Load the CD into a PC with a CPU by a different vendor.
Does it still work?
See a pattern here?
Looks like modular and standardized to me.

I concede that memtest86+ is a program that actually
tests the memory and reports the results thru the "OS"
onto the display. If you unplug the BIOS chip, the
memory doesn't get tested. No pattern of bits on the
CD will fix that.

Post by Paul
If it's just a giant polling loop with fixed functions,
then it's a "program".
In the same way, that if we entered the control room of a
traditional elevator complex, and looked at the ladder
logic clacking away, nobody would say an operating system
was present. But, what you were looking at, was a "program".
It had inputs and outputs, and a fixed function (raise
and lower elevator car, without killing anyone).
Paul

[Paul]

Post by mike
Change the keyboard. Does it still work?
Change the display. Does it still work?
Change the ram quantity and format. Does it still work?
Change the CD hardware. Does it still work?
Load the CD into a PC with a CPU by a different vendor.
Does it still work?
See a pattern here?
Looks like modular and standardized to me.
I concede that memtest86+ is a program that actually
tests the memory and reports the results thru the "OS"
onto the display. If you unplug the BIOS chip, the
memory doesn't get tested. No pattern of bits on the
CD will fix that.

If I had a JIT compiler, to generate a "program" for your
set of hardware, I could cover off those variations.

When I wrote code for the computer I built, do you
think there were any "drivers" ? There was no ring0 and
ring3 (processor didn't support it). All I had to do was
go to certain magic addresses and write to registers
to make things happen. That's because everything I did
on the machine, was a monolithic program containing
all of the knowledge needed to make it work.

Video cards have a "config ROM" on them, it's executable
code, and it brings the card into alignment with a VESA
standard (a frame buffer at a known address, or with
address pointers stored in a standard place). That's an example
of distributing the "program" design, such that the code
I'd need to write on my end, simply makes a call to whatever
the VESA code had set up. The VESA standard has no BITBLT,
no 2D or 3D acceleration, and gives just enough capability
so you can draw on a screen.

THe CRT5027 in my system, was very similar to that. No acceleration,
Just a frame buffer. And when writing to it, all the
locations needed were fixed for the duration of any
code running at the time.

When I did an Ethernet card at work, it was an "intelligent"
card and had its own processor. Well, how much of an OS
did that have ? None at all. It had 3KB of code, a polling
loop (looked for the command flag incoming), and it had
one level of interrupts. If a packet showed up on the
network, the processor would take a FIRQ and the incoming
packet could then be handled.

You can build fixed-function things without a lot of fuss.
And they can actually be made to do useful things.

Paul

[mike]

Post by Paul

Post by mike
Change the keyboard. Does it still work?
Change the display. Does it still work?
Change the ram quantity and format. Does it still work?
Change the CD hardware. Does it still work?
Load the CD into a PC with a CPU by a different vendor.
Does it still work?
See a pattern here?
Looks like modular and standardized to me.
I concede that memtest86+ is a program that actually
tests the memory and reports the results thru the "OS"
onto the display. If you unplug the BIOS chip, the
memory doesn't get tested. No pattern of bits on the
CD will fix that.

If I had a JIT compiler, to generate a "program" for your
set of hardware, I could cover off those variations.
When I wrote code for the computer I built, do you
think there were any "drivers" ? There was no ring0 and
ring3 (processor didn't support it). All I had to do was
go to certain magic addresses and write to registers
to make things happen. That's because everything I did
on the machine, was a monolithic program containing
all of the knowledge needed to make it work.
Video cards have a "config ROM" on them, it's executable
code, and it brings the card into alignment with a VESA
standard (a frame buffer at a known address, or with
address pointers stored in a standard place). That's an example
of distributing the "program" design, such that the code
I'd need to write on my end, simply makes a call to whatever
the VESA code had set up. The VESA standard has no BITBLT,
no 2D or 3D acceleration, and gives just enough capability
so you can draw on a screen.
THe CRT5027 in my system, was very similar to that. No acceleration,
Just a frame buffer. And when writing to it, all the
locations needed were fixed for the duration of any
code running at the time.
When I did an Ethernet card at work, it was an "intelligent"
card and had its own processor. Well, how much of an OS
did that have ? None at all. It had 3KB of code, a polling
loop (looked for the command flag incoming), and it had
one level of interrupts. If a packet showed up on the
network, the processor would take a FIRQ and the incoming
packet could then be handled.
You can build fixed-function things without a lot of fuss.
And they can actually be made to do useful things.

You certainly can. The nit being picked is whether executing memtest86+
off a CD on a PC is done without an OS.
I claim that there IS an OS involved, no matter how crude.
Modular and Standardized by your definition.
Without that OS, there's no path for the bits on the CD to get
to the processor for execution. There's nothing that you can
write in that program on CD to make it happen.
The OS presents whatever is on the CD in the correct format
to the processor for execution. I doubt that memtest86+
has any capability to directly write a frame buffer, or turn on the
display backlight or scan the keyboard on a USB-connected keyboard. It
relies on standardized modular functions
built into the OS.

Post by Paul
Paul

[Maurice]

Post by mike
I used to dream of the day when linux was as stable as windows.
Never did I imagine that parity would be achieved by windows declining
into the chaos that engulfs and stifles linux.

As a user of both Windows and Linux, I agree that the former has
certainly gone
downhill from Windows 7, but as a Linux (Mageia) user I do not find any
chaos
engulfing and stifling it at all; it's a relative breath of fresh air.

[mike]

Post by Maurice

Post by mike
I used to dream of the day when linux was as stable as windows.
Never did I imagine that parity would be achieved by windows declining
into the chaos that engulfs and stifles linux.

As a user of both Windows and Linux, I agree that the former has
certainly gone
downhill from Windows 7, but as a Linux (Mageia) user I do not find any
chaos
engulfing and stifling it at all; it's a relative breath of fresh air.

If you're isolated from the other zillion windows users...
If you're happy with whatever functionality desktop linux offers...
If you don't ever have to fix anything or sort thru a gillion
hits of solutions that apply to some other version of some other
distro...
If you don't mind relearning methods every time the distro gets
a new default user interface/desktop/default editor/thelistgoeson...
You might be a happy linux user.

For me, desktop linux is maybe 99% great. It's that 1% of deal breakers
that
makes desktop linux fail as a windows alternative.

It's the same reason Windows Phone failed as an alternative
to Android. It's past the tipping point. There's nothing
Microsoft can do about it. Google is too big for them to buy.

With all that fresh air, why do you need windows at all?

Those of us here are not typical users.
In the real world,
Joe average doesn't have six desktop computers and a desire to tinker
with them.
He has a wife and kids and a girlfriend and a boat and golf clubs, AKA a
life.
He doesn't have the time or desire to spend hours a day on the web
arguing whether
control-alt-backspace /f | grep nemo > /usr/me/outfile
is the optimum command or whether your mother is a whore
for birthing someone as stupid as you are.

FWIW, Mageia 2 was my favorite OS.
Mageia 3 scrambled it.
Mageia 4 was a disaster.
Haven't looked at anything more recent.
My version numbers may be off by one, but who's counting.
The takeaway is that I ain't goin' back.

People who create distros seem to take pride in their
ability to throw it all up in the air at every new release
and include whatever falls into the pot.
There's only one reason to have more than one distro.
It's just to be different...hey, look what I can do...

This rant makes me wanna go boot one of the linux machines.
Maybe it will take my mind off the decline of windows.

[mechanic]

Post by g***@internet.none
I dont even have an operating system on my computer. I just use
the computer the way it is. Operating systems are just a waste of
computer power and storage space, and they are not needed.

Yes, a suitable topic for April Fool's day.

[Mike S]

Post by mechanic

Post by g***@internet.none
I dont even have an operating system on my computer. I just use
the computer the way it is. Operating systems are just a waste of
computer power and storage space, and they are not needed.

Yes, a suitable topic for April Fool's day.

Great reply.

[Wolf K]

Post by g***@internet.none
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:43:41 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by T

Post by Wolf K
Not just Windows, all OSs.

You have a point. Folks now do not care about the OS, or
even know what it is. They only care about the apps they
can run

That doesn't mean the OSs are in decline: they're still there, and, er,
operating! Just perhaps not being _discussed_ as much.

I dont even have an operating system on my computer. I just use the
computer the way it is. Operating systems are just a waste of computer
power and storage space, and they are not needed.

LOL

Nice try.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Wolf K

Post by g***@internet.none
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:43:41 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by T

Post by Wolf K
Not just Windows, all OSs.

You have a point. Folks now do not care about the OS, or
even know what it is. They only care about the apps they
can run

That doesn't mean the OSs are in decline: they're still there, and, er,
operating! Just perhaps not being _discussed_ as much.

I dont even have an operating system on my computer. I just use the
computer the way it is. Operating systems are just a waste of computer
power and storage space, and they are not needed.

LOL
Nice try.

I assumed that was a date-appropriate post. If it wasn't, then the
poster doesn't understand.