Discussion:
"Racism" is the cause of the sluggish response to help New Orleans
(too old to reply)
p***@ixsi.com
2005-09-10 17:18:44 UTC
Permalink
"Racism" is the cause of the sluggish response to help New Orleans

IXSI Network
Special report from New Orleans
Sep 02 2005
by North American reporter

Katrina has exposed the ugly underbelly of the USA for the world to
see. The unimaginable suffering of the Black population in New Orleans
and elsewhere in the "Apartheid South" due to the hurricane is
primarily due to the deeply ingrained racism that exists throughout
America
but especially in the "Old South" against the former "slaves". New
Orleans is 70% Black and most earn less than one half what Whites do.
The foot dragging to send in food, water and medicine to help the
dying, mostly Blacks, trapped at the Astrodome is due to the deep
animosity, now hidden, of Whites towards Blacks.

The examples of racism against New Orleans during their hour of need
are many. The first is the fact that the Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) and other White run federal agencies knew of the
impending catastrophe but chose to ignore it. There were already
numerous reports that New Orleans was in imminent danger of a major
catastrophe because the levy system that holds back the sea needed
upgrading. Instead, federal funds designated to fix the dikes were cut.
"Who cares about those poor niggers and drag queens in the Big Easy,
let it sink into the sea!" is what the Black mayors of New Orleans
heard consistently over the years. Another example is what is being
heard on radio in the Los Angeles area. Bill Handel, and extremely
hateful and obnoxious Jewish talk jock, said of the Blacks breaking
into food stores, "The cops should just shoot those animals in the
head". The same was heard from the anti-Mexican bigot Doug McIntyre on
another LA based radio station.

There is no doubt that there could have been a more rapid and efficient
response if there would have been the "will" to do so. No one cared,
not Bush nor most other responsible government agents until the
embarrassing photographs of the horrific situation were being
transmitted across the world. After much, of what only amounted to,
"lip service" by government officials, George Bush put on a show today
for the press giving the impression that he would fly to New Orleans to
"save the day". "The cavalry is here to save New Orleans" he said.
What a sham!

What happened to all the USA Chinook helicopters? What happened to the
Louisiana National Guard? What happened to the US Army's ability to
deploy emergency hospitals in a matter of hours? Perhaps they are busy
reconstructing Iraq. What a shame! We wonder what Black soldiers in
Iraq from Louisiana and Mississippi think when viewing the pictures of
old Black women and Black children dead on the concrete inside and in
the parking lot of the Astrodome. They died of hunger and thirst and
because of the lack of essential medications. Supplies that were denied
to the Black refugees simply because no one cared.

The same thing may happen to the large Mexican-American population in
the southwest if a similar catastrophe should occur here. If a major
earthquake or terrorist attack should befall Los Angeles, San Antonio,
San Diego or San Francisco, would the White run government emergency
agencies do to us what they did to the Blacks in New Orleans? Would
they choose to apply resources to save the predominate White areas and
leave us to die? The time to plan and prepare is now!
Rose Melinis
2005-09-10 17:58:07 UTC
Permalink
Yes, and all the financial aid being given by the USA government, the Red
Cross, and the Salvation Army is a white plot. We all know these black
minorities will use the money for drugs and alcohol and this will cause more
deaths when they start shooting each other in their crazed frenzies for more
and more cheap thrills.

It is all a white man's plot.
Post by p***@ixsi.com
"Racism" is the cause of the sluggish response to help New Orleans
IXSI Network
Special report from New Orleans
Sep 02 2005
by North American reporter
Katrina has exposed the ugly underbelly of the USA for the world to
see. The unimaginable suffering of the Black population in New Orleans
and elsewhere in the "Apartheid South" due to the hurricane is
primarily due to the deeply ingrained racism that exists throughout
America
but especially in the "Old South" against the former "slaves". New
Orleans is 70% Black and most earn less than one half what Whites do.
The foot dragging to send in food, water and medicine to help the
dying, mostly Blacks, trapped at the Astrodome is due to the deep
animosity, now hidden, of Whites towards Blacks.
The examples of racism against New Orleans during their hour of need
are many. The first is the fact that the Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) and other White run federal agencies knew of the
impending catastrophe but chose to ignore it. There were already
numerous reports that New Orleans was in imminent danger of a major
catastrophe because the levy system that holds back the sea needed
upgrading. Instead, federal funds designated to fix the dikes were cut.
"Who cares about those poor niggers and drag queens in the Big Easy,
let it sink into the sea!" is what the Black mayors of New Orleans
heard consistently over the years. Another example is what is being
heard on radio in the Los Angeles area. Bill Handel, and extremely
hateful and obnoxious Jewish talk jock, said of the Blacks breaking
into food stores, "The cops should just shoot those animals in the
head". The same was heard from the anti-Mexican bigot Doug McIntyre on
another LA based radio station.
There is no doubt that there could have been a more rapid and efficient
response if there would have been the "will" to do so. No one cared,
not Bush nor most other responsible government agents until the
embarrassing photographs of the horrific situation were being
transmitted across the world. After much, of what only amounted to,
"lip service" by government officials, George Bush put on a show today
for the press giving the impression that he would fly to New Orleans to
"save the day". "The cavalry is here to save New Orleans" he said.
What a sham!
What happened to all the USA Chinook helicopters? What happened to the
Louisiana National Guard? What happened to the US Army's ability to
deploy emergency hospitals in a matter of hours? Perhaps they are busy
reconstructing Iraq. What a shame! We wonder what Black soldiers in
Iraq from Louisiana and Mississippi think when viewing the pictures of
old Black women and Black children dead on the concrete inside and in
the parking lot of the Astrodome. They died of hunger and thirst and
because of the lack of essential medications. Supplies that were denied
to the Black refugees simply because no one cared.
The same thing may happen to the large Mexican-American population in
the southwest if a similar catastrophe should occur here. If a major
earthquake or terrorist attack should befall Los Angeles, San Antonio,
San Diego or San Francisco, would the White run government emergency
agencies do to us what they did to the Blacks in New Orleans? Would
they choose to apply resources to save the predominate White areas and
leave us to die? The time to plan and prepare is now!
Somchai
2005-09-10 18:18:19 UTC
Permalink
White Foragers Report Threat Of Black Looters

NEW ORLEANS-Throughout the Gulf Coast, Caucasian suburbanites
attempting to gather food and drink in the shattered wreckage of
shopping districts have reported seeing African­Americans "looting
snacks and beer from damaged businesses." "I was in the abandoned
Wal-Mart gathering an air mattress so I could float out the potato
chips, beef jerky, and Budweiser I'd managed to find," said white
survivor Lars Wrightson, who had carefully selected foodstuffs whose
salt and alcohol content provide protection against contamination.
"Then I look up, and I see a whole family of [African-Americans] going
straight for the booze. Hell, you could see they had already looted a
fortune in diapers." Radio stations still in operation are advising
store owners and white people in the affected areas to locate firearms
in sporting-goods stores in order to protect themselves against
marauding blacks looting gun shops.
Somchai
2005-09-11 02:24:21 UTC
Permalink
I should have put a smiley after the article I posted, some might think
it is real : -).

Somchai
TheChosenFool
2005-09-11 02:19:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rose Melinis
Yes, and all the financial aid being given by the USA government, the Red
Cross, and the Salvation Army is a white plot. We all know these black
minorities will use the money for drugs and alcohol and this will cause more
deaths when they start shooting each other in their crazed frenzies for more
and more cheap thrills.
It is all a white man's plot.
Wake up... Today African-Americans... You'll get yours yet...
Congenital Kano
2005-09-11 02:41:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenFool
Post by Rose Melinis
Yes, and all the financial aid being given by the USA government, the Red
Cross, and the Salvation Army is a white plot. We all know these black
minorities will use the money for drugs and alcohol and this will cause
more
Post by Rose Melinis
deaths when they start shooting each other in their crazed frenzies for
more
Post by Rose Melinis
and more cheap thrills.
It is all a white man's plot.
Wake up... Today African-Americans... You'll get yours yet...
You mean that someday soon *she* will be the benificiary of the greatest voluntary personal generousity ever seen on the planet, over $500 million and growing?

Wow, lucky girl!

Answer me this, Fool - if racism against "African Americans" is so pervasive in American culture, why do black immigrants from Africa (you know, the African-Africans) within five year of reaching the US attain financial success, home ownership and other measures of success on a par with American-born whites? It's not the white culture that suppresses blacks, but the black subculture that inculcates a victim mentality. Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks who have interracially bred to a greater extent) do not assume that the system will be against them and that they are doomed to failure. They try, and in doing so, succeed.

But what do I know - I'm part of the white institutional racism thang Pig
Rose Melinis
2005-09-11 02:52:08 UTC
Permalink
No, I won't be beneficiary of any of that money. I have a job. I pay taxes. I believe in personal responsibility. What I can do is take a quick flight to Michigan tomorrow morning to buy a few MegaMillions tickets. $200 million USA dollars! Whoopee!

Have you ever noticed that these bleeding heart lefty liberals always throw emotional responses to civil, rational, and thought-out posts?
"Congenital Kano" <***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:S_CdnVXRfKaYBL7eRVn-***@comcast.com...
You mean that someday soon *she* will be the benificiary of the greatest voluntary personal generousity ever seen on the planet, over $500 million and growing?

Wow, lucky girl!

Answer me this, Fool - if racism against "African Americans" is so pervasive in American culture, why do black immigrants from Africa (you know, the African-Africans) within five year of reaching the US attain financial success, home ownership and other measures of success on a par with American-born whites? It's not the white culture that suppresses blacks, but the black subculture that inculcates a victim mentality. Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks who have interracially bred to a greater extent) do not assume that the system will be against them and that they are doomed to failure. They try, and in doing so, succeed.

But what do I know - I'm part of the white institutional racism thang Pig
TheChosenFool
2005-09-11 08:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rose Melinis
No, I won't be beneficiary of any of that money. I have a job. I pay taxes.
I believe in personal responsibility. What I can do is take a quick flight
to Michigan >tomorrow morning to buy a few MegaMillions tickets. $200
million USA dollars! Whoopee!

"It's never enough for the lost and confused", says Confucius.
Rish
2005-09-11 10:59:24 UTC
Permalink
"Misunderstandings and neglect occasion more mischief in the world
than even malice and wickedness. At all events, the two latter are of
less frequent occurrence." - Goethe

Or if you want a more direct and modern version:
"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by
incompetence."

- Hanlon's Razor
TheChosenPig
2005-09-11 20:01:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rose Melinis
Post by Rose Melinis
No, I won't be beneficiary of any of that money. I have a job. I pay taxes.
I believe in personal responsibility. What I can do is take a quick flight
to Michigan >tomorrow morning to buy a few MegaMillions tickets. $200
million USA dollars! Whoopee!
"It's never enough for the lost and confused", says Confucius.
When did Confucious learn to speak English, Fool?
--
"Beer is proof that God wants us to be happy..."
TheChosenFool
2005-09-12 00:18:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenPig
Post by TheChosenFool
"It's never enough for the lost and confused", says Confucius.
When did Confucious learn to speak English, Fool?
I think it was the time when you had your first chop suey...
TheChosenFool
2005-09-11 08:51:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Congenital Kano
Answer me this, Fool - if racism against "African Americans" is so
pervasive in American culture, why do black immigrants from Africa (you
know, the African->Africans) within five year of reaching the US attain
financial success, home ownership and other measures of success on a par
with American-born whites? It's >not the white culture that suppresses
blacks, but the black subculture that inculcates a victim mentality.
Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks >who have
interracially bred to a greater extent) do not assume that the system will
be against them and that they are doomed to failure. They try, and in doing
so, >succeed.

There are serious flaws in your assertions above that I'm afraid not worth
my two cents. Read it at least 10 times and you will see an image of a foot
in mouth.
TheChosenPig
2005-09-11 20:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Congenital Kano
Post by Congenital Kano
Answer me this, Fool - if racism against "African Americans" is so
pervasive in American culture, why do black immigrants from Africa (you
know, the African->Africans) within five year of reaching the US attain
financial success, home ownership and other measures of success on a par
with American-born whites? It's >not the white culture that suppresses
blacks, but the black subculture that inculcates a victim mentality.
Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks >who have
interracially bred to a greater extent) do not assume that the system will
be against them and that they are doomed to failure. They try, and in doing
so, >succeed.
There are serious flaws in your assertions above that I'm afraid not worth
my two cents. Read it at least 10 times and you will see an image of a foot
in mouth.
In other words, Fool, you got nothing to use for an answer, riiiight?
Hell, post a picture! Worth a thousand yada-yadas, you know.
--
"Beer is proof that God wants us to be happy..."
TheChosenFool
2005-09-12 00:23:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenPig
Post by Congenital Kano
Post by Congenital Kano
Answer me this, Fool - if racism against "African Americans" is so
pervasive in American culture, why do black immigrants from Africa (you
know, the African->Africans) within five year of reaching the US attain
financial success, home ownership and other measures of success on a par
with American-born whites? It's >not the white culture that suppresses
blacks, but the black subculture that inculcates a victim mentality.
Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks >who have
interracially bred to a greater extent) do not assume that the system will
be against them and that they are doomed to failure. They try, and in doing
so, >succeed.
There are serious flaws in your assertions above that I'm afraid not worth
my two cents. Read it at least 10 times and you will see an image of a foot
in mouth.
In other words, Fool, you got nothing to use for an answer, riiiight?
Hell, post a picture! Worth a thousand yada-yadas, you know.
I've answered that proposition but your bone head won't just comprehend. In
other words, I cannot effectively destroy something that's already broken,
you feelin' me?
amanda
2005-09-12 19:12:36 UTC
Permalink
Not that I am giving excuse for the African-Americans but you failed to
realize that African immigrants nowadays comes from the upper or middle
class of their country or if lowere economic ladder, the ones who comes
are the ones with the zeal. Comparing them with the whole
African-American community is not fair. Also that they are very well
aware of their heritage unlike the African-AnMericans here who feel
lost of their identiy. Like Asains, African culture is diverse.

In their trying to find their identity and glorious past, some of their
leaders had sought out to say things that are just bs. I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.

Amidst such incomepetent leaders, it is not easy to see why the
majority of African-Americans still have the victims mentality. If you
put yourself in their shoes, you will see the obstacle they face even
on small things on a daily basis.
Post by Congenital Kano
Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks who have
interracially bred to a greater extent) do not assume that the system will
be against them and that they are doomed to failure. They try, and in doing
so, succeed.
I don't believe that they don't assume that the system is against them.
They are just more equipped to try something be it as a computer
programmer or whatever. We know one successful African-American
realtor (married to an Italian woman).

If any African-American is reading, please understand that I have no
intention to offend. I highly revere Martin Luther King Jr. as I do
Gandhi. I feel that the leadership in the community needs to reevaluate
their strategy if they truly want to bring the community up. By
brainwashing that the white twisted the history to the point of saying
that the Moors were the Africans, only makes the people filled with
anger, which perpetuate the victim mentality more, the leadership is
not doing a good service.
TheChosenPig
2005-09-12 19:27:09 UTC
Permalink
What was being highlighted is the prevalent attitude of many
African-Americans. I doubt that any of them are former slaves.
However, they keep using their ancestors' slavery as the excuse for
their failure to fully assimilate in MODERN American society. This
society has apologized for the past, made amends, made concessions,
given extra privileges, and have been very, very patient. Still, when
cornered, all you hear is "because I'm black, ....."

".....because I'm black....." is THE MOST RACIST phrase there is.

Other peoples have been enslaved. However, their children grew up, grew
bigger than the excuses, and succeeded.

DSP
Post by amanda
Not that I am giving excuse for the African-Americans but you failed to
realize that African immigrants nowadays comes from the upper or middle
class of their country or if lowere economic ladder, the ones who comes
are the ones with the zeal. Comparing them with the whole
African-American community is not fair. Also that they are very well
aware of their heritage unlike the African-AnMericans here who feel
lost of their identiy. Like Asains, African culture is diverse.
In their trying to find their identity and glorious past, some of their
leaders had sought out to say things that are just bs. I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.
Amidst such incomepetent leaders, it is not easy to see why the
majority of African-Americans still have the victims mentality. If you
put yourself in their shoes, you will see the obstacle they face even
on small things on a daily basis.
Post by Congenital Kano
Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks who have
interracially bred to a greater extent) do not assume that the system will
be against them and that they are doomed to failure. They try, and in doing
so, succeed.
I don't believe that they don't assume that the system is against them.
They are just more equipped to try something be it as a computer
programmer or whatever. We know one successful African-American
realtor (married to an Italian woman).
If any African-American is reading, please understand that I have no
intention to offend. I highly revere Martin Luther King Jr. as I do
Gandhi. I feel that the leadership in the community needs to reevaluate
their strategy if they truly want to bring the community up. By
brainwashing that the white twisted the history to the point of saying
that the Moors were the Africans, only makes the people filled with
anger, which perpetuate the victim mentality more, the leadership is
not doing a good service.
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-12 23:15:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Not that I am giving excuse for the African-Americans
Snip
But then you do.....
Post by amanda
In their trying to find their identity and glorious past, some of their
leaders had sought out to say things that are just bs. I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.
Poor idiot Moors are /were African... hint Morocco- get some education
before posting!
Post by amanda
Amidst such incomepetent leaders, it is not easy to see why the
majority of African-Americans still have the victims mentality. If you
put yourself in their shoes, you will see the obstacle they face even
on small things on a daily basis.
No dummy they have that mentality because it pays to have it!
Post by amanda
Post by Congenital Kano
Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks who have
interracially bred to a greater extent)
Poor retard there are different shades of blacks in Africa- LEARN
SOMETHING!
Post by amanda
brainwashing that the white twisted the history to the point of saying
that the Moors were the Africans, only makes the people filled with
anger, which perpetuate the victim mentality more, the leadership is
not doing a good service.
Inability to think causes assholes like you to post bullshit- stop it!
amanda
2005-09-13 06:12:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Not that I am giving excuse for the African-Americans
Snip
But then you do.....
Post by amanda
In their trying to find their identity and glorious past, some of their
leaders had sought out to say things that are just bs. I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.
Poor idiot Moors are /were African... hint Morocco- get some education
before posting!
Where did you learn that that moors refers to people from Morocco only?
The kind of African History books I mentioned? Not surprised.

BTW, Morocco may be in Africa but it's a part of middle east and the
people are ehtnically Arabs.

Saudi Arabia is in Asia. Would you call the Saudis Asians or Arabs?

Does anti-semitism refers to all people with semitic blood including
Arabs or just the Jews. Get some REAL education before you think of
refuting.
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Amidst such incomepetent leaders, it is not easy to see why the
majority of African-Americans still have the victims mentality. If you
put yourself in their shoes, you will see the obstacle they face even
on small things on a daily basis.
No dummy they have that mentality because it pays to have it!
Post by amanda
Post by Congenital Kano
Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks who have
interracially bred to a greater extent)
Poor retard there are different shades of blacks in Africa- LEARN
SOMETHING!
He meant the one with full Negroid (racial term) blood as we all know
that MOST of the lighter ones are due to Arab blood in them.
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
brainwashing that the white twisted the history to the point of saying
that the Moors were the Africans, only makes the people filled with
anger, which perpetuate the victim mentality more, the leadership is
not doing a good service.
Inability to think causes assholes like you to post bullshit- stop it!
Dean T
2005-09-13 07:00:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Not that I am giving excuse for the African-Americans
Snip
But then you do.....
Post by amanda
In their trying to find their identity and glorious past, some of their
leaders had sought out to say things that are just bs. I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.
Poor idiot Moors are /were African... hint Morocco- get some education
before posting!
Where did you learn that that moors refers to people from Morocco only?
The kind of African History books I mentioned? Not surprised.
BTW, Morocco may be in Africa but it's a part of middle east and the
people are ehtnically Arabs.
Saudi Arabia is in Asia. Would you call the Saudis Asians or Arabs?
Saudi Arabia is NOT a part of Asia. It's considered a part of the Middle
East Region, looked at an Atlas lately?
Stananger
2005-09-13 08:10:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean T
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Not that I am giving excuse for the African-Americans
Snip
But then you do.....
Post by amanda
In their trying to find their identity and glorious past, some of
their
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
leaders had sought out to say things that are just bs. I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors
were
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.
Poor idiot Moors are /were African... hint Morocco- get some education
before posting!
Where did you learn that that moors refers to people from Morocco only?
The kind of African History books I mentioned? Not surprised.
BTW, Morocco may be in Africa but it's a part of middle east and the
people are ehtnically Arabs.
Saudi Arabia is in Asia. Would you call the Saudis Asians or Arabs?
Saudi Arabia is NOT a part of Asia. It's considered a part of the Middle
East Region, looked at an Atlas lately?
Saudi Arabia is in Asia

So isnt Israel, Jordan, AND the rest of the Middle East.

From the amateur radio country and continent list;
(This is very accurate)


AS=Asia
Eu=Europe
NA=North America
SA=South America
OC=Oceania
AF=Africa

Entity Cont. ITU CQ

(1) Spratly Is. AS 50 26
1A0(1) Sov. Mil. Order of Malta EU 28 15
3A* Monaco EU 27 14
3B6, 7* Agalega & St. Brandon Is. AF 53 39
3B8 Mauritius AF 53 39
3B9* Rodrigues I. AF 53 39
3C Equatorial Guinea AF 47 36
3C0 Annobon I. AF 52 36
3D2* Fiji OC 56 32
3D2* Conway Reef OC 56 32
3D2* Rotuma I. OC 56 32
3DA# Swaziland AF 57 38
3V* Tunisia AF 37 33
3W, XV Vietnam AS 49 26
3X Guinea AF 46 35
3Y* Bouvet AF 67 38
3Y* Peter I I. AN ? 72 12
4J, 4K* Azerbaijan AS 29 21
4L* Georgia AS 29 21
4P-4S* Sri Lanka AS 41 22
4U_ITU#* ITU HQ EU 28 14
4U_UN* United Nations HQ NA 08 05
4W (44) Timor - Leste OC 54 28
4X, 4Z#* Israel AS 39 20
5A Libya AF 38 34
5B* Cyprus AS 39 20
5H-5I* Tanzania AF 53 37
5N-5O* Nigeria AF 46 35
5R-5S Madagascar AF 53 39
5T(2) Mauritania AF 46 35
5U(3) Niger AF 46 35
5V Togo AF 46 35
5W* Samoa OC 62 32
5X* Uganda AF 48 37
5Y-5Z* Kenya AF 48 37
6V-6W(4)* Senegal AF 46 35
6Y#* Jamaica NA 11 08
7O(5) Yemen AS 39 21
7P Lesotho AF 57 38
7Q Malawi AF 53 37
7T-7Y* Algeria AF 37 33
8P* Barbados NA 11 08
8Q Maldives AS/AF 41 22
8R#* Guyana SA 12 09
9A(6)* Croatia EU 28 15
9G(7)#* Ghana AF 46 35
9H* Malta EU 28 15
9I-9J* Zambia AF 53 36
9K* Kuwait AS 39 21
9L#* Sierra Leone AF 46 35
9M2, 4(8)* West Malaysia AS 54 28
9M6, 8(8)* East Malaysia OC 54 28
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A3 Tonga OC 62 32
A4* Oman AS 39 21
A5 Bhutan AS 41 22
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A9* Bahrain AS 39 21
AP-AS* Pakistan AS 41 21
BS7 (11) Scarborough Reef AS 50 27
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BY,BT* China AS (A) 23,24
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16
CE0#* Easter I. SA 63 12
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CE9/KC4^* Antarctica AN (B) (C)
CM, CO#* Cuba NA 11 08
CN Morocco AF 37 33
CP#* Bolivia SA 12, 10
14
CT* Portugal EU 37 14
CT3* Madeira Is. AF 36 33
CU* Azores EU 36 14
CV-CX#* Uruguay SA 14 13
CY0* Sable I. NA 09 05
CY9* St. Paul I. NA 09 05
D2-3 Angola AF 52 36
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DU-DZ#* Philippines OC 50 27
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EL#* Liberia AF 46 35
EP-EQ* Iran AS 40 21
ER* Moldovia EU 29 16
ES* Estonia EU 29 15
ET* Ethiopia AF 48 37
EU, EV, EW* Belarus EU 29 16
EX* Kyrgyzstan AS 30, 17
31
EY* Tajikistan AS 30 17
EZ* Turkmenistan AS 30 17
F* France EU 27 14
FG* Guadeloupe NA 11 08
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FH(13)* Mayotte AF 53 39
FK* New Caledonia OC 56 32
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FM* Martinique NA 11 08
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FO* Clipperton I. NA 10 07
FO* French Polynesia OC 63 32
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FP* St. Pierre & Miquelon NA 09 05
FR/G(17)* Glorioso Is. AF 53 39
FR/J, E(17)* Juan de Nova, Europa AF 53 39
FR* Reunion I. AF 53 39
FR/T* Tromelin I. AF 53 39
FT5W* Crozet I. AF 68 39
FT5X* Kerguelen Is. AF 68 39
FT5Z* Amsterdam & St. Paul Is. AF 68 39
FW* Wallis & Futuna Is. OC 62 32
FY* French Guiana SA 12 09
G, GX*& England EU 27 14
GD, GT* Isle of Man EU 27 14
GI, GN* Northern Ireland EU 27 14
GJ, GH* Jersey EU 27 14
GM, GS* Scotland EU 27 14
GU, GP* Guernsey EU 27 14
GW, GC* Wales EU 27 14
H4* Solomon Is. OC 51 28
H40 (18)* Temotu Province OC 51 32
HA, HG* Hungary EU 28 15
HB* Switzerland EU 28 14
HB0* Liechtenstein EU 28 14
HC-HD#* Ecuador SA 12 10
HC8-HD8#* Galapagos Is. SA 12 10
HH#* Haiti NA 11 08
HI#* Dominican Republic NA 11 08
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HK0#* Malpelo I. SA 12 09
HK0#* San Andres & Providencia NA 11 07
HL* Republic of Korea AS 44 25
HO-HP#* Panama NA 11 07
HQ-HR#* Honduras NA 11 07
HS, E2* Thailand AS 49 26
HV Vatican EU 28 15
HZ* Saudi Arabia AS 39 21
I* Italy EU 28 15
33
IS0, IM0* Sardinia EU 28 15
J2* Djibouti AF 48 37
J3#* Grenada NA 11 08
J5 Guinea-Bissau AF 46 35
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J8# St. Vincent NA 11 08
JA-JS* Japan AS 45 25
JD1(19)* Minami Torishima OC 90 27
JD1(20)* Ogasawara AS 45 27
JT-JV* Mongolia AS 32, 23
33
JW* Svalbard EU 18 40
JX* Jan Mayen EU 18 40
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K,W,N, United States of America NA 6, 3,4,
AA-AK# 7,8 5
KG4# Guantanamo Bay NA 11 08
KH0# Mariana Is. OC 64 27
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KH2#* Guam OC 64 27
KH3#* Johnston I. OC 61 31
KH4# Midway I. OC 61 31
KH5# Palmyra & Jarvis Is. OC 61, 31
62
KH5K# Kingman Reef OC 61 31
KH6,7#* Hawaii OC 61 31
KH7K# Kure I. OC 61 31
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KH9# Wake I. OC 65 31
KL7#* Alaska NA 1,2 1
KP1# Navassa I. NA 11 08
KP2#* Virgin Is. NA 11 08
KP3,4#* Puerto Rico NA 11 08
KP5(22)# Desecheo I. NA 11 08
LA-LN* Norway EU 18 14
LO-LW#* Argentina SA 14, 13
16
LX* Luxembourg EU 27 14
LY* Lithuania EU 29 15
LZ* Bulgaria EU 28 20
OA-OC#* Peru SA 12 10
OD* Lebanon AS 39 20
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OF-OI* Finland EU 18 15
OH0* Aland Is. EU 18 15
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OM(23)* Slovak Republic EU 28 15
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OX* Greenland NA 5, 40
75
OY* Faroe Is. EU 18 14
OZ* Denmark EU 18 14
P2(24) Papua New Guinea OC 51 28
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P5(26) DPR of Korea AS 44 25
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PJ2, 4, 9* Bonaire, Curacao SA 11 09
(Neth. Antilles)
PJ5-8* St. Maarten, Saba, St. NA 11 08
Eustatius
PP-PY#* Brazil SA (D) 11
PP0-PY0F#* Fernando de Noronha SA 13 11
PP0-PY0S#* St. Peter & St. Paul Rocks SA 13 11
PP0-PY0T#* Trindade & Martim Vaz Is. SA 15 11
PZ Suriname SA 12 09
R1FJ* Franz Josef Land EU 75 40
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S0(1),(27) Western Sahara AF 46 33
S2* Bangladesh AS 41 22
S5(6)* Slovenia EU 28 15
S7 Seychelles AF 53 39
S9* Sao Tome & Principe AF 47 36
SA-SM* Sweden EU 18 14
SN-SR* Poland EU 28 15
ST* Sudan AF 48 34
SU Egypt AF 38 34
SV-SZ* Greece EU 28 20
SV/A* Mount Athos EU 28 20
SV5* Dodecanese EU 28 20
SV9* Crete EU 28 20
T2(28) Tuvalu OC 65 31
T30 W. Kiribati (Gilbert Is. ) OC 65 31
T31 C. Kiribati (British OC 62 31
Phoenix Is.)
T32 E. Kiribati (Line Is.) OC 61, 31
63
T33 Banaba I. (Ocean I.) OC 65 31
T5 Somalia AF 48 37
T7* San Marino EU 28 15
T8, KC6(21) Palau OC 64 27
T9(29)#* Bosnia-Herzegovina EU 28 15
TA-TC* Turkey EU/AS 39 20
TF* Iceland EU 17 40
TG, TD#* Guatemala NA 12 07
TI, TE#* Costa Rica NA 11 07
TI9#* Cocos I. NA 12 07
TJ Cameroon AF 47 36
TK* Corsica EU 28 15
TL(30) Central Africa AF 47 36
TN(31) Congo (Republic of the) AF 52 36
TR(32)* Gabon AF 52 36
TT(33) Chad AF 47 36
TU(34)* Cote d'Ivoire AF 46 35
TY(35) Benin AF 46 35
TZ(36)* Mali AF 46 35
UA-UI1,3,4,6 European Russia EU (E) 16
RA-RZ*
UA2* Kaliningrad EU 29 15
UA-UI8,9,0 Asiatic Russia AS (F) (G)
RA-RZ*
UJ-UM* Uzbekistan AS 30 17
UN-UQ* Kazakhstan AS 29- 17
31
UR-UZ, EM-EO* Ukraine EU 29 16
V2#* Antigua & Barbuda NA 11 08
V3# Belize NA 11 07
V4(37)#* St. Kitts & Nevis NA 11 08
V5* Namibia AF 57 38
V6(38) Micronesia OC 65 27
V7#* Marshall Is. OC 65 31
V8* Brunei Darussalam OC 54 28
VE, VO, VY#* Canada NA (H) 1-5
VK#* Australia OC (I) 29,30
VK0#* Heard I. AF 68 39
VK0#* Macquarie I. OC 60 30
VK9C#* Cocos-Keeling Is. OC 54 29
VK9L#* Lord Howe I. OC 60 30
VK9M#* Mellish Reef OC 56 30
VK9N Norfolk I. OC 60 32
VK9W#* Willis I. OC 55 30
VK9X#* Christmas I. OC 54 29
VP2E(37) Anguilla NA 11 08
VP2M(37) Montserrat NA 11 08
VP2V(37)* British Virgin Is. NA 11 08
VP5* Turks & Caicos Is. NA 11 08
VP6#* Pitcairn I. OC 63 32
VP6(46)* Ducie I. OC 63 32
VP8* Falkland Is. SA 16 13
VP8, LU* South Georgia I. SA 73 13
VP8, LU* South Orkney Is. SA 73 13
VP8, LU* South Sandwich Is. SA 73 13
VP8, LU, South Shetland Is. SA 73 13
CE9, HF0, 4K1*
VP9* Bermuda NA 11 05
VQ9* Chagos Is. AF 41 39
VR* Hong Kong AS 44 24
VU* India AS 41 22
VU* Andaman & Nicobar Is. AS 49 26
VU* Lakshadweep Is. AS 41 22
XA-XI#* Mexico NA 10 06
XA4-XI4#* Revillagigedo NA 10 06
XT(39)* Burkina Faso AF 46 35
XU Cambodia AS 49 26
XW Laos AS 49 26
XX9* Macao AS 44 24
XY-XZ Myanmar AS 49 26
YA Afghanistan AS 40 21
YB-YH(40)* Indonesia OC 51, 28
54
YI* Iraq AS 39 21
YJ* Vanuatu OC 56 32
YK* Syria AS 39 20
YL* Latvia EU 29 15
YN#* Nicaragua NA 11 07
YO-YR* Romania EU 28 20
YS#* El Salvador NA 11 07
YT-YU, YZ* Serbia and Montenegro EU 28 15
YV-YY#* Venezuela SA 12 09
YV0#* Aves I. NA 11 08
Z2* Zimbabwe AF 53 38
Z3(41)* Macedonia EU 28 15
ZA* Albania EU 28 15
ZB2* Gibraltar EU 37 14
ZC4(42)* UK Sov. Base Areas AS 39 20
on Cyprus
ZD7* St. Helena AF 66 36
ZD8* Ascension I. AF 66 36
ZD9 Tristan da Cunha & Gough I. AF 66 38
ZF* Cayman Is. NA 11 08
ZK1 N. Cook Is. OC 62 32
ZK1 S. Cook Is. OC 62 32
ZK2* Niue OC 62 32
ZK3* Tokelau Is. OC 62 31
ZL-ZM* New Zealand OC 60 32
ZL7* Chatham Is. OC 60 32
ZL8* Kermadec Is. OC 60 32
ZL9* Auckland & Campbell Is. OC 60 32
ZP#* Paraguay SA 14 11
ZR-ZU#* South Africa AF 57 38
ZS8* Prince Edward & Marion Is. AF 57 38
TheChosenPig
2005-09-13 17:03:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean T
Saudi Arabia is NOT a part of Asia. It's considered a part of the Middle
East Region, looked at an Atlas lately?
Yes. Does your atlas show a flat earth? Mine shows Turkey as being in
Asia BEFORE Halliburton dug the Bosphorus Canal. Do we jive?

Bwahawring ChosenPig
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-14 01:08:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean T
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Not that I am giving excuse for the African-Americans
Snip
But then you do.....
Post by amanda
In their trying to find their identity and glorious past, some of
their
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
leaders had sought out to say things that are just bs. I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors
were
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.
Poor idiot Moors are /were African... hint Morocco- get some education
before posting!
Where did you learn that that moors refers to people from Morocco only?
The kind of African History books I mentioned? Not surprised.
BTW, Morocco may be in Africa but it's a part of middle east and the
people are ehtnically Arabs.
Saudi Arabia is in Asia. Would you call the Saudis Asians or Arabs?
Saudi Arabia is NOT a part of Asia. It's considered a part of the Middle
East Region, looked at an Atlas lately?
it's south-western asia... sorry but, Middle-east is the reference used
to distinguish it from the far east (China et al)
Dean T
2005-09-14 07:01:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by Dean T
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Not that I am giving excuse for the African-Americans
Snip
But then you do.....
Post by amanda
In their trying to find their identity and glorious past, some of
their
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
leaders had sought out to say things that are just bs. I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors
were
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.
Poor idiot Moors are /were African... hint Morocco- get some education
before posting!
Where did you learn that that moors refers to people from Morocco only?
The kind of African History books I mentioned? Not surprised.
BTW, Morocco may be in Africa but it's a part of middle east and the
people are ehtnically Arabs.
Saudi Arabia is in Asia. Would you call the Saudis Asians or Arabs?
Saudi Arabia is NOT a part of Asia. It's considered a part of the Middle
East Region, looked at an Atlas lately?
it's south-western asia... sorry but, Middle-east is the reference used
to distinguish it from the far east (China et al)
That makes sense.
TheChosenPig
2005-09-13 16:10:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Saudi Arabia is in Asia.
After checking my Rand-McNally pocket atlas, I now understand why the
U.S. Navy gave me (three times) the Southwest Asia Campaign Medal!
Thank you, thank you, for this nugget of wisdom. You are a
genius!!!!!!! May I call you TheChosenAmanda?

Ignorant Pig
Bwahahahawr!
amanda
2005-09-13 17:22:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenPig
After checking my Rand-McNally pocket atlas, I now understand why the
U.S. Navy gave me (three times) the Southwest Asia Campaign Medal!
Braggart!
TheChosenPig
2005-09-13 17:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Post by TheChosenPig
After checking my Rand-McNally pocket atlas, I now understand why the
U.S. Navy gave me (three times) the Southwest Asia Campaign Medal!
Braggart!
For you, O ChosenAmanda, I will ride my dirt bike no hands. Want a ride
through Texas?
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-14 01:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Not that I am giving excuse for the African-Americans
Snip
But then you do.....
Post by amanda
In their trying to find their identity and glorious past, some of their
leaders had sought out to say things that are just bs. I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.
Poor idiot Moors are /were African... hint Morocco- get some education
before posting!
Where did you learn that that moors refers to people from Morocco only?
The kind of African History books I mentioned? Not surprised.
Poor retard try getting an education before posting stupid tripe like
this scroll on for further enlightenment!
Post by amanda
BTW, Morocco may be in Africa but it's a part of middle east and the
people are ehtnically Arabs.
Wrong idiot- there are three count them three main ethnic groups- get a
brain before you try responding (hint I've actually been there)
Post by amanda
Saudi Arabia is in Asia. Would you call the Saudis Asians or Arabs?
So is Russia and Turkey- try wrapping that thought around your tiny
brain!
Post by amanda
Does anti-semitism refers to all people with semitic blood including
Arabs or just the Jews. Get some REAL education before you think of
refuting.
Does this dimwitted response make up for your gross errors? Hell no-
you're still stupid!
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Amidst such incomepetent leaders, it is not easy to see why the
majority of African-Americans still have the victims mentality. If you
put yourself in their shoes, you will see the obstacle they face even
on small things on a daily basis.
No dummy they have that mentality because it pays to have it!
Post by amanda
Post by Congenital Kano
Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks who have
interracially bred to a greater extent)
Poor retard there are different shades of blacks in Africa- LEARN
SOMETHING!
He meant the one with full Negroid (racial term) blood as we all know
that MOST of the lighter ones are due to Arab blood in them.
Wrong again retard try doing actual research! How does a moron like you
get access to the web?
Inability to think causes assholes like you to post bullshit- stop it!
a***@yahoo.com
2005-09-14 18:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Not that I am giving excuse for the African-Americans
Snip
But then you do.....
Post by amanda
In their trying to find their identity and glorious past, some of their
leaders had sought out to say things that are just bs. I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.
Poor idiot Moors are /were African... hint Morocco- get some education
before posting!
Where did you learn that that moors refers to people from Morocco only?
The kind of African History books I mentioned? Not surprised.
Poor retard try getting an education before posting stupid tripe like
this scroll on for further enlightenment!
Instead of spewing out trash to attack my point, why don't you provide
one reliable source, that says that the term "moors" STRICTLY refers to
the Negroid African race ONLY and that they represent African culture
of Negroid race?
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
BTW, Morocco may be in Africa but it's a part of middle east and the
people are ehtnically Arabs.
Wrong idiot- there are three count them three main ethnic groups- get a
brain before you try responding (hint I've actually been there)
Answer who are in upper economic and social class today and in the past
(of recorded history)? The point I was making was that Moors were NOT
the negroid racially as mentioned in the book I was talking about.
Beside, who told you that today's morocco's ethnic distribution is the
same as int he apst?
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Saudi Arabia is in Asia. Would you call the Saudis Asians or Arabs?
So is Russia and Turkey- try wrapping that thought around your tiny
brain!
What do Russian and Turkey have to do with the subject at hand about
"moors"? Beside not all of Turkey is in Asia. The same with russia.
http://www.peacecorps.gov/kids/world/europemed/russia.html
Excerpt: "Russia is almost twice the size of the United States and
occupies most of eastern Europe and north Asia."

So stop showing how ignorant you are. We know already.
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Does anti-semitism refers to all people with semitic blood including
Arabs or just the Jews. Get some REAL education before you think of
refuting.
Does this dimwitted response make up for your gross errors?
Yes, it did make up for more than that because I wasn't talking about
today's Morocco and I was SPECIFICALLY talking about the term "moors",
keepign in mind that the ethnic dirtibution of today's Morarcco is not
the same as the Morrocco of yesterdays.
Post by j***@gmail.com
Hell no-> you're still stupid!
You are too uneducated, and have been brinwashed by Farakan. With
people like you, I feel sorry for your ethnic group. We, outsiders can
help only so much, you know?

Here is some education for you:

AT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors

Origins of the name
The name derives from the old Berber tribe of the Mauri and their
kingdom, Mauretania, which became a Roman province after its last king
Bocchus II willed it to Octavian in 33 BC. Mauretania lay in present
day Morocco and Western Algeria. The name of Mauri was applied by the
Romans to all Africa natives of
North Africa still ruled by their own chiefs, until the 3rd century AD.
Some scholars propose that the characterization of the Islamic
civilization in Iberia as "Moorish" is a misnomer which implies the
predominance of Berber traits in the civilization, rather than Arab and
Islamic ones. The Muslim conquest of Iberia was undertaken by Arab
caliphates. The Arab Umayyad dynasty of Damascus was transplanted to
Muslim Spain and was responsible for the incorporation of much of the
culture and architecture from the old Umayyad capital. The soldiery of
the first wave of invasions was derived predominantly from Berber
peoples of North Africa.


Present-day Moors
In modern usage, Moor or Moorish (Spanish: moro, French: maure) is used
to designate West African people whose native tongue is the Hassaniya
dialect of Arabic. Moors live mainly in Western Sahara and the Islamic
Republic of Mauritania, the latter of which has got its name from them,
too. There are also significant Hassaniya-speaking communities in Mali
and Senegal.

Ethnically, the Moors are divided into two main groups: White Moors and
Black Moors. White Moors (Arabic: البيضان, transliterated:
al-bīḍānī) are nomads of Arabo-Berber origin with relatively fair
skin colour. Black Moors (Arabic: السودان) are generally
considered to stem from former slave populations of White Moors who
have adopted the customs and language of their masters.
Nowadays, slavery being officially abolished, most Black Moors live an
independent life, although some say underprivileged and repressed.
Still according to some reports, slavery does exist in some parts of
Mauritania, at least. The Black Moors do not identify themselves with
other black population
of their home countries, even significant ones.
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Amidst such incomepetent leaders, it is not easy to see why the
majority of African-Americans still have the victims mentality. If you
put yourself in their shoes, you will see the obstacle they face even
on small things on a daily basis.
No dummy they have that mentality because it pays to have it!
Post by amanda
Post by Congenital Kano
Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks who have
interracially bred to a greater extent)
Poor retard there are different shades of blacks in Africa- LEARN
SOMETHING!
He meant the one with full Negroid (racial term) blood as we all know
that MOST of the lighter ones are due to Arab blood in them.
Wrong again retard try doing actual research! How does a moron like you
get access to the web?
Is that all you can say now that I stopped your brainwashed idea that
ALL moors are descendants of Negroid Africans?
Post by j***@gmail.com
Inability to think causes assholes like you to post bullshit- stop it!
Educate yourself via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors and stop your
crap once and for all.

If you want to find something significant in world history that is
completely of African identity, keep digging the fossil records and you
might get lucky. After all, Harappan civilization was by dark-skinned
people who must have come from Africa at some point. You'll have
better luck associating that civilization with the Africans (ancient
ones) than Moorish Islamic civilization with modern Africans.

Case closed.
TheChosenPig
2005-09-14 21:15:11 UTC
Permalink
***@yahoo.com wrote:

Amanda, sweetheart, you said part of Turkey is in Asia. Can you give me
the map coordinates, pretty please? Thank you.

Your loyal pig
amanda
2005-09-15 00:08:37 UTC
Permalink
I have friends from Turkey and I'll let them explain to you if they have time.
Cheeze
2005-09-15 03:43:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenPig
Amanda, sweetheart, you said part of Turkey is in Asia. Can you give me
the map coordinates, pretty please? Thank you.
Your loyal pig
She's correct. I believe its mostly in Asia and just steps into
Europe. I think there's a body of water dividing the Europe part and
the asia part.
Just JT
2005-09-15 05:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheeze
She's correct. I believe its mostly in Asia and just steps into
Europe. I think there's a body of water dividing the Europe part and
the asia part.
------------------
There are three countries which span two continents:

1. Russia - Asia & Europe
2. Turkey - Asia & Europe
3. Egypt - Africa & Asia

--
ThisWasAFinalJeopardyQuestion
TheChosenPig
2005-09-15 18:14:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just JT
Post by Cheeze
She's correct. I believe its mostly in Asia and just steps into
Europe. I think there's a body of water dividing the Europe part and
the asia part.
------------------
1. Russia - Asia & Europe
2. Turkey - Asia & Europe
3. Egypt - Africa & Asia
--
ThisWasAFinalJeopardyQuestion
Mexifornia - North, Central & South America
--
"Beer is proof that God wants us to be happy..."
y***@gmail.com
2005-09-15 06:30:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheeze
Post by TheChosenPig
Amanda, sweetheart, you said part of Turkey is in Asia. Can you give me
the map coordinates, pretty please? Thank you.
Your loyal pig
She's correct. I believe its mostly in Asia and just steps into
Europe. I think there's a body of water dividing the Europe part and
the asia part.
What do they teach you people in school?

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/tr.htm
Cheeze
2005-09-15 09:56:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by y***@gmail.com
Post by Cheeze
Post by TheChosenPig
Amanda, sweetheart, you said part of Turkey is in Asia. Can you give me
the map coordinates, pretty please? Thank you.
Your loyal pig
She's correct. I believe its mostly in Asia and just steps into
Europe. I think there's a body of water dividing the Europe part and
the asia part.
What do they teach you people in school?
http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/tr.htm
School what's that! Hahahahah! :-D
TheChosenPig
2005-09-15 16:49:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheeze
School what's that! Hahahahah! :-D
A brewery, you idiot. And it's spelled S-K-O-O-L.
--
"Beer is proof that God wants us to be happy..."
Congenital Kano
2005-09-15 22:05:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenPig
Post by Cheeze
School what's that! Hahahahah! :-D
A brewery, you idiot. And it's spelled S-K-O-O-L.
Or as Dean Martin oncet said, when someone saluted him with "Skoal!"

"Of course 'scold. It's got ice in it."

Matthew Helm Pig
TheChosenPig
2005-09-15 16:47:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by y***@gmail.com
Post by Cheeze
Post by TheChosenPig
Amanda, sweetheart, you said part of Turkey is in Asia. Can you give me
the map coordinates, pretty please? Thank you.
Your loyal pig
She's correct. I believe its mostly in Asia and just steps into
Europe. I think there's a body of water dividing the Europe part and
the asia part.
That would be the Bosphorus Strait, a very narrow (you can swim it if
you dare) body of water separating Europe and Asia. You can clearly see
both sides whichever continent you're standing on. And yes, there is a
misplaced bridge.
Post by y***@gmail.com
What do they teach you people in school?
I was home schooled all the way to graduate school.
Post by y***@gmail.com
http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/tr.htm
All I asked from My Sweet Amanda were the map coordinates. I never said
My Sweet Amanda was wrong.

I have been to Turkey, stayed there for three months, went everywhere,
and yes, I still have my maps.

I was leading up to something else with My Sweet Amanda. Please do not
block the path of true love.

Amanda's Loyal Meerschaum Pig
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-14 23:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Not that I am giving excuse for the African-Americans
Snip
But then you do.....
Post by amanda
In their trying to find their identity and glorious past, some of their
leaders had sought out to say things that are just bs. I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.
Poor idiot Moors are /were African... hint Morocco- get some education
before posting!
Where did you learn that that moors refers to people from Morocco only?
The kind of African History books I mentioned? Not surprised.
Poor retard try getting an education before posting stupid tripe like
this scroll on for further enlightenment!
Instead of spewing out trash to attack my point, why don't you provide
one reliable source, that says that the term "moors" STRICTLY refers to
the Negroid African race ONLY and that they represent African culture
of Negroid race?
Poor idiot- only you were stupid enough to claim that anyone thought
that it was a strictly negroid race- but, then as a truely foolish
buffoon you later go on to admit that yes, there were/are black Moors-
BWAHAHAHAHAHA God you're stupid!
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
BTW, Morocco may be in Africa but it's a part of middle east and the
people are ehtnically Arabs.
Wrong idiot- there are three count them three main ethnic groups- get a
brain before you try responding (hint I've actually been there)
Answer who are in upper economic and social class today and in the past
(of recorded history)? The point I was making was that Moors were NOT
the negroid racially as mentioned in the book I was talking about.
Beside, who told you that today's morocco's ethnic distribution is the
same as int he apst?
as int apst??? Do you even have a clue about what you're responding to?
Of course not, that's why you're trying to argue both sides! A true
sign of stupidity!
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Saudi Arabia is in Asia. Would you call the Saudis Asians or Arabs?
So is Russia and Turkey- try wrapping that thought around your tiny
brain!
What do Russian and Turkey have to do with the subject at hand about
"moors"?
You tell me dumbass you keep trying to change the subject by referring
to Asian countries- ever try Prozac? Poor idiot you can't seem to make
sense of your own lame arguments!
Post by a***@yahoo.com
So stop showing how ignorant you are. We know already.
As proven you "KNOW" nothing! You're a bloated buffoon suffering from
delusions of grandure!
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Does anti-semitism refers to all people with semitic blood including
Arabs or just the Jews. Get some REAL education before you think of
refuting.
Does this dimwitted response make up for your gross errors?
Yes, it did make up for more than that because I wasn't talking about
today's Morocco and I was SPECIFICALLY talking about the term "moors",
keepign in mind that the ethnic dirtibution of today's Morarcco is not
the same as the Morrocco of yesterdays.
No dumbass it doesn't make up for your mistake it simply highlights how
stupid you are!
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by j***@gmail.com
Hell no-> you're still stupid!
You are too uneducated, and have been brinwashed by Farakan. With
people like you, I feel sorry for your ethnic group. We, outsiders can
help only so much, you know?
BWAHAHAHHA poor idoit- I have nothing to do with screwy Louey and of
course you have no clue what "ethnic" group you're responding to- just
as you have no idea what ethnic group(s) compromised the "Moors"
Post by a***@yahoo.com
AT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors
Origins of the name
The name derives from the old Berber tribe of the Mauri and their
kingdom, Mauretania, which became a Roman province after its last king
Bocchus II willed it to Octavian in 33 BC. Mauretania lay in present
day Morocco and Western Algeria. The name of Mauri was applied by the
Romans to all Africa natives of
North Africa still ruled by their own chiefs,
YAWN no shit sherlock! Wish you knew that three days ago... bwahahaha



The Muslim conquest of Iberia was undertaken by Arab
Post by a***@yahoo.com
caliphates.
snip
who used BLACK converts as the bulk of their army DUH!
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Ethnically, the Moors are divided into two main groups: White Moors and
al-bīḍānī) are nomads of Arabo-Berber origin with relatively fair
skin colour. Black Moors (Arabic: السودان) are generally
considered to stem from former slave populations of White Moors who
have adopted the customs and language of their masters.
Nowadays, slavery being officially abolished, most Black Moors live an
independent life, although some say underprivileged and repressed.
Still according to some reports, slavery does exist in some parts of
Mauritania, at least. The Black Moors do not identify themselves with
other black population
of their home countries, even significant ones.
WOW the retard finally admits there are black moors!!!! If only the
dumb bitch knew that when she lied to her so-called black friend- or
posted her drivel here!
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
Post by Congenital Kano
Africans (who are generally darker than American blacks who have
interracially bred to a greater extent)
Poor retard there are different shades of blacks in Africa- LEARN
SOMETHING!
He meant the one with full Negroid (racial term) blood as we all know
that MOST of the lighter ones are due to Arab blood in them.
Full negroid blood has many different shades dummy- stop trying to lie
you way out of it!
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by j***@gmail.com
Wrong again retard try doing actual research! How does a moron like you
get access to the web?
Is that all you can say now that I stopped your brainwashed idea that
ALL moors are descendants of Negroid Africans?
Again, where did you get such a stupid idea? Your claim is that the
Moors aren't african bwahahaha try to keep your own lies straight
fruitcake!
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by j***@gmail.com
Inability to think causes assholes like you to post bullshit- stop it!
Educate yourself via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors and stop your
crap once and for all.
Yawn try to keep your bullshit straight dipshit!


You'll have
Post by a***@yahoo.com
better luck associating that civilization with the Africans (ancient
ones) than Moorish Islamic civilization with modern Africans.
Case closed.
Hey, look everyone the idiot first posts that Moors lived in Africa and
now claims they have nothing to do with Africa- yes, case closed
Amanduh is an inbred retard! BWAHAHAHAHAHAA!
amanda
2005-09-15 00:07:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Instead of spewing out trash to attack my point, why don't you provide
one reliable source, that says that the term "moors" STRICTLY refers to
the Negroid African race ONLY and that they represent African culture
of Negroid race?
Poor idiot- only you were stupid enough to claim that anyone thought
that it was a strictly negroid race
What I said initially was what my former African-American neigbor said
about the moors and her reference of the term "Africans" referring to
yhe negroid race.
So I pointed out that she was mislead by the book on their African
history she was reading. You started ttaking things out of context and
insisted all the crap you did and now are acusing me that I
thought/assumed?

I understand that that's all you can do at this point since you have
been refuted with the link I privided on the term "moors". If I were
you I would look for things that Negroid Africans can be proud of
instead of trying to get a free ride with the acomplishment of the
moors.
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-15 22:24:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Instead of spewing out trash to attack my point, why don't you provide
one reliable source, that says that the term "moors" STRICTLY refers to
the Negroid African race ONLY and that they represent African culture
of Negroid race?
Poor idiot- only you were stupid enough to claim that anyone thought
that it was a strictly negroid race
What I said initially was what my former African-American neigbor said
about the moors and her reference of the term "Africans" referring to
yhe negroid race.
So I pointed out that she was mislead by the book on their African
history she was reading. You started ttaking things out of context and
insisted all the crap you did and now are acusing me that I
thought/assumed?
LIAR!!! What you said was.....

I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were

Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Co
Post by amanda
I understand that that's all you can do at this point since you have
been refuted with the link I privided on the term "moors".
LIAR!!! You proved me right... try again retard!


If I were
Post by amanda
you I would look for things that Negroid Africans can be proud of
instead of trying to get a free ride with the acomplishment of the
moors.
Free ride on the back of other AFRICANS??? BWahahahaha your a an idiot
who knows nothing- you can't even read your own sites you use as
support- YOU'RE THE QUEEN OF ALL STUPUDITY!!!
amanda
2005-09-16 04:52:35 UTC
Permalink
I have seen one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were Africans.
The part "(I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) " was supposed to imply that I didn't read
that stoopid book. What I meant by "I have seen" was that she was
holding that stoopid book, you idiot.

She had already started reading it. Don't ask me why she broght it
with her to my place. May be she thought I would be interested in
reading it. I was..initially.

You are suffering from inferiority complex; it's all over your posts.
Get help!
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-16 16:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
I have seen one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were Africans.
The part "(I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) " was supposed to imply that I didn't read
that stoopid book. What I meant by "I have seen" was that she was
holding that stoopid book, you idiot.
So again, you attack that which you haven't read- and assume that by
african it means purely black- and further claim that it's really only
arabs- blah blah blah
yes, you're both a liar and an idiot!
Post by amanda
You are suffering from inferiority complex; it's all over your posts.
Get help!
Really? Bwahahahaha- you're the one who keeps lying and getting caught-
the one who can't defend their own pathetic claims!
You're a weak incompetent troll- a good one could at least defend their
claims for a day or two- you couldn't even stick to/ or defend your
original claims- bwahahahaha!

Get an education Amanduh!
Rifty
2005-09-13 02:35:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
I have seen
one of the book about their history where it's said that the Moors were
Africans. ( I didn't read it as soon as the lady mentioned that the
Moors were the Afraicans.) Any one with average knowledge of world
history knows that the word "Moor" refers to the Muslims, esepcially
when talking about the Moorish, Islamic Spain in Cordova.
Better start reading it again... The Moors were Muslims, yes, from
Africa! Where the hell do you think they came from? It's just across
the Straight, if you look at the map!

Rifty
--
Academic and Computing Help
http://rifty.net
amanda
2005-09-13 06:14:45 UTC
Permalink
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
Cheeze
2005-09-13 07:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
That's terrible reasoning. Why can't they be both arabs and asians?
Hunter1
2005-09-13 11:05:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheeze
Post by amanda
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
That's terrible reasoning. Why can't they be both arabs and asians?
Why not?? There are plenty of people that are both black and white,
political correctness (and also government benefits) however dictate
that they claim to be black rather than white.

My opinion is that we're all mongrels somewhere back along our lines, so
who really gives a fuck?
amanda
2005-09-13 17:18:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hunter1
My opinion is that we're all mongrels somewhere back along our lines,
You got that right. I don't think most white are aware of that.
Post by Hunter1
so who really gives a fuck?
Keep in mind that I was talking about history books and history books
are supposed to present as accurate info as possible.
Hunter1
2005-09-14 09:22:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Post by Hunter1
My opinion is that we're all mongrels somewhere back along our lines,
You got that right. I don't think most white are aware of that.
Ahhh, but ignorance is no excuse for hypocrisy or bigotry.
Post by amanda
Post by Hunter1
so who really gives a fuck?
Keep in mind that I was talking about history books and history books
are supposed to present as accurate info as possible.
To be honest, screw books, screw history, screw bigotry, we're all just
people. We might look different, have different religions and/or
political ideas, but at the end of the day we're still all just people.
Good people get along with each other despite differences, arseholes don't.
amanda
2005-09-15 17:09:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hunter1
To be honest, screw books, screw history, screw bigotry, we're all just
people. We might look different, have different religions and/or
political ideas,
Yes, to be honest, I wish it's that simple. In my teenage and early
20s, that was my view.

Then I saw the book, "Sovereign Individual" where the author pointed
out that how the culture of African-American population has more in
common with the larger American society than the Africans (of the black
Africa) and yet their leaders pushed the African culture (of black
Africa) on them. That was the starting point for me to notice how big
the racial politics in US is.
Post by Hunter1
but at the end of the day we're still all just people.
Good people get along with each other despite differences, arseholes don't.
Very true but when you make comparisons of ecomomic status of
different ethnic/racial groups in US, you can't escape from the reality
that here is a corelation between the race and economic status. If you
are in their shoes, you would feel the anger too. (I was a minority and
I can *try* to understand the feeling a bit but with us, there was a
strong sense of racial and cultural identity and the discirimation was
a form of payback out of resentment toward colonial rule and its upper
class.)

Needless to say, psychologists ot whatever-ists try to see why that is
and the sense of racial identity is brought in. I have to run though I
have some more to write.
Rifty
2005-09-13 12:29:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheeze
Post by amanda
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
That's terrible reasoning. Why can't they be both arabs and asians?
Exactly. Just like Moors can be Africans and Arabs. And the boundary of
West Asia is entirely arbitrary. In fact, all land boundaries are.
Where does Asia end and Europe begin? It's all a convenience. It
doesn't pay to be dogmatic about lines on a map as definers of culture.

Rifty
--
Academic and Computing Help
http://rifty.net
TheChosenPig
2005-09-13 17:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rifty
Post by Cheeze
Post by amanda
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
That's terrible reasoning. Why can't they be both arabs and asians?
Exactly. Just like Moors can be Africans and Arabs. And the boundary of
West Asia is entirely arbitrary. In fact, all land boundaries are.
Where does Asia end and Europe begin?
I would hazard the guess that they end and begin where significant
bodies of water separate the two continents physically and culturally.
You find that hard to imagine?
Post by Rifty
It's all a convenience. It
doesn't pay to be dogmatic about lines on a map as definers of culture.
Rifty
--
"Beer is proof that God wants us to be happy..."
Rifty
2005-09-15 10:59:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenPig
I would hazard the guess that they end and begin where significant
bodies of water separate the two continents physically and culturally.
You find that hard to imagine?
Not at all. But there are plenty of places where boundaries are not
decided by a stretch of water. Europe and Asia are enormous land masses
which are certainly not separated by large bodies of water.

Rifty
--
Academic and Computing Help
http://rifty.net
TheChosenPig
2005-09-15 16:58:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rifty
Post by TheChosenPig
I would hazard the guess that they end and begin where significant
bodies of water separate the two continents physically and culturally.
You find that hard to imagine?
Not at all. But there are plenty of places where boundaries are not
decided by a stretch of water. Europe and Asia are enormous land masses
which are certainly not separated by large bodies of water.
Rifty
Where did I say "large?" I said "significant." All continents on this
planet, at least for the significant moment, are surrounded by water.
No, "subcontinent" of India doesn't count. Yes, the Americas used to be
joined until somebody dug a significant ditch in Panama and filled it
with a significant amount of water.
--
"Beer is proof that God wants us to be happy..."
Rifty
2005-09-17 03:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenPig
Where did I say "large?" I said "significant." All continents on this
planet, at least for the significant moment, are surrounded by water.
But continents include Eurasia, and I was talking about the lack
significant internal barriers there. Part of this rather pointless
discussion began with someone arbitrarily deciding was was Asian and
what wasn't. It comes down to defining 'significant' features but I
don't think we really need this discussion at all, do we? When we sorted
them out we'd probably agree on the main points anyway. Culture groups
have washed all over Eurasia for millennia, comparatively unhindered by
the significant physical obstacles.
Post by TheChosenPig
No, "subcontinent" of India doesn't count.
Doesn't count in what sense? It has highly significant physical features
that separate it from the rest of Asia of course, unlike what separates
Europe from Asia.
Post by TheChosenPig
Yes, the Americas used to be
joined until somebody dug a significant ditch in Panama and filled it
with a significant amount of water.
Yes.... in the grand scheme of things, not a great barrier between the
continents either way, if a highly significant economic innovation.

Rifty
--
Academic and Computing Help
http://rifty.net
amanda
2005-09-13 17:16:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheeze
Post by amanda
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
That's terrible reasoning. Why can't they be both arabs and asians?
Of course, they can be both Arabs and Asians.

My point was that when history books like the ones I mentioned (the
ones specifically written for African-Americans) states that Moors were
Africans W/O stating that they were Arabs, and their culture was Arab,
my former African-American next door neighbor (I lived in that
family-owned condo temporarily) with just high-school education who
didn't know much about world history in general, this kind of book is
nothing but misleading and a diservice to the very people they try to
educate about the history of their people (Negroid race). Don't get
me wrong. She thirst for knowledge and reads on health books and
stuff. I think that she deserves better than Louis Farakan's version of
African history.
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-14 01:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
My point was that when history books like the ones I mentioned (the
ones specifically written for African-Americans) states that Moors were
Africans W/O stating that they were Arabs, and their culture was Arab,
Poor idiot- they were a mix of black and "arab" which is why spaniards
and southern Italians are no longer blonde haired and blue eyed as they
were before- try reading an actual history book DOLT!
Cheeze
2005-09-14 02:49:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Post by Cheeze
Post by amanda
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
That's terrible reasoning. Why can't they be both arabs and asians?
Of course, they can be both Arabs and Asians.
My point was that when history books like the ones I mentioned (the
ones specifically written for African-Americans) states that Moors were
Africans W/O stating that they were Arabs, and their culture was Arab,
my former African-American next door neighbor (I lived in that
family-owned condo temporarily) with just high-school education who
didn't know much about world history in general, this kind of book is
nothing but misleading and a diservice to the very people they try to
educate about the history of their people (Negroid race). Don't get
me wrong. She thirst for knowledge and reads on health books and
stuff. I think that she deserves better than Louis Farakan's version of
African history.
Would it also be misleading to say that the Chinese are Asians, without
saying that they are also Chinese?
a***@yahoo.com
2005-09-14 18:22:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheeze
Would it also be misleading to say that the Chinese are Asians, without
saying that they are also Chinese?
In current day usuage, the term "Asian" typically refers to orientals
and so in today's language context, referring the Chinese as Asians
MAY be okay but that may not always be the case as Asian population is
ethnically very diverse.

For exmaple, I am an Asian with no chinese blood. I have some semitic
blood and caucasian blood aside from Mongoloid blood but I am not a
Chinese and so it is better to refer the Chinese as Chinese rather than
Asians IMHO.
.
y***@gmail.com
2005-09-14 20:51:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Cheeze
Would it also be misleading to say that the Chinese are Asians, without
saying that they are also Chinese?
In current day usuage, the term "Asian" typically refers to orientals
and so in today's language context, referring the Chinese as Asians
MAY be okay but that may not always be the case as Asian population is
ethnically very diverse.
In current day usage *IN THE USA* the term 'Asian' typically refers to
orientals...

In the UK the term 'Asian' refers to someone whose ethnicity traces
back to the Indian sub-continent.

We don't all live in America.
TheChosenPig
2005-09-14 21:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.com
In current day usuage, the term "Asian" typically refers to orientals
and so in today's language context, referring the Chinese as Asians
MAY be okay but that may not always be the case as Asian population is
ethnically very diverse.
Whatever the diversity, if they are in Asia, they are Asians. Actually,
lots of Australians refer to themselves as Asians.
Post by a***@yahoo.com
For exmaple, I am an Asian with no chinese blood. I have some semitic
blood and caucasian blood aside from Mongoloid blood but I am not a
Chinese and so it is better to refer the Chinese as Chinese rather than
Asians IMHO.
May I have your picture? My email address is valid.
--
"Beer is proof that God wants us to be happy..."
Sylvia Knörr
2005-09-15 01:16:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Cheeze
Would it also be misleading to say that the Chinese are Asians, without
saying that they are also Chinese?
In current day usuage, the term "Asian" typically refers to orientals
and so in today's language context, referring the Chinese as Asians
MAY be okay but that may not always be the case as Asian population is
ethnically very diverse.
For exmaple, I am an Asian with no chinese blood. I have some semitic
blood and caucasian blood aside from Mongoloid blood but I am not a
Chinese and so it is better to refer the Chinese as Chinese rather than
Asians IMHO.
What *ARE* you then? :-)
And which ng are you posting from? I´d like to drop some of the unrelated
groups.

Ethno-Piggy
amanda
2005-09-15 16:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sylvia Knörr
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Cheeze
Would it also be misleading to say that the Chinese are Asians, without
saying that they are also Chinese?
In current day usuage, the term "Asian" typically refers to orientals
and so in today's language context, referring the Chinese as Asians
MAY be okay but that may not always be the case as Asian population is
ethnically very diverse.
For exmaple, I am an Asian with no chinese blood. I have some semitic
blood and caucasian blood aside from Mongoloid blood but I am not a
Chinese and so it is better to refer the Chinese as Chinese rather than
Asians IMHO.
What *ARE* you then? :-)
A citizen of the planet earth.
Post by Sylvia Knörr
And which ng are you posting from?
It's a secret.
Post by Sylvia Knörr
I´d like to drop some of the unrelated groups.
I was just clickign reply and didn't realize that the posts were going
to unrelated groups. Sorry.
Post by Sylvia Knörr
Ethno-Piggy
Sylvia Knörr
2005-09-16 00:35:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Post by Sylvia Knörr
Post by a***@yahoo.com
For exmaple, I am an Asian with no chinese blood. I have some semitic
blood and caucasian blood aside from Mongoloid blood but I am not a
Chinese and so it is better to refer the Chinese as Chinese rather than
Asians IMHO.
What *ARE* you then? :-)
A citizen of the planet earth.
Okay, I didn't suppose you're a Marsian since "alt.culture.mars" is not on
the list. Aside from that, is it a problem for you to name your ethnicity?
If yes, why is it?
Post by amanda
Post by Sylvia Knörr
And which ng are you posting from?
It's a secret.
Post by Sylvia Knörr
I´d like to drop some of the unrelated groups.
I was just clickign reply and didn't realize that the posts were going
to unrelated groups. Sorry.
No big deal, but that's why I asked which was YOUR original group. I use to
post in soc.culture.filipino and don't want to bother all the others.

Selective Piggy
Cheeze
2005-09-15 03:55:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Cheeze
Would it also be misleading to say that the Chinese are Asians, without
saying that they are also Chinese?
In current day usuage, the term "Asian" typically refers to orientals
and so in today's language context, referring the Chinese as Asians
MAY be okay but that may not always be the case as Asian population is
ethnically very diverse.
For exmaple, I am an Asian with no chinese blood. I have some semitic
blood and caucasian blood aside from Mongoloid blood but I am not a
Chinese and so it is better to refer the Chinese as Chinese rather than
Asians IMHO.
.
By your logic, no one will be called Asian. Amanda, you need to
realize that there is a difference between Asian, a geographic term,
and a racial term like Semite, Mongoloid, Malay, Indian, etc.

The moors are from Africa, hence they were Africans as well as Moorish.

A St. Bernard is a dog. Only a fool would interpret that statement to
mean that all dogs are St. Bernards. From what you said in your post,
there was nothing misleading in saying that the Moors are Africans.
They are. Only a fool would be mislead into believing that all
africans are moors, and it would not be the fault of the book.
amanda
2005-09-15 16:48:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheeze
By your logic, no one will be called Asian.
I do admit that I never liked the term "Asian" except when using it to
refer to geographic location.
Post by Cheeze
Amanda, you need to realize that there is a difference between Asian,
a geographic term,
Post by Cheeze
and a racial term like Semite, Mongoloid, Malay, Indian, etc.
I am well aware of that. Why wouldn't I be giving my ethnic
background? I called myself Asian to simplfy things. When people ask me
where I am from, I know that they are trying to determine my ethnicity
because they can't figure out form my looks. Instead of telling them
the country name which only invite more questions, I sometimes use the
term "Asian" and they get the message that I am not interested in
giving the detail.
Post by Cheeze
The moors are from Africa, hence they were Africans as well as Moorish.
Remember that when my neighbor used the terms African, she was using it
in racial and cultural sense, not geological sense. I didn't correct
her because I didn't want to bother explaining someone who wasn't
familiar with Islamic Rule in Spain.
Post by Cheeze
A St. Bernard is a dog. Only a fool would interpret that statement to
ean that all dogs are St. Bernards. From what you said in your post,
there was nothing misleading in saying that the Moors are Africans.
They are. Only a fool would be mislead into believing that all
africans are moors, and it would not be the fault of the book.
Just remember that I was talking in the context of the History books
that were trying to teach the African-American population their history
in racial sense. I stand on my point that the book my neighbor was
given to learn her racial group's past accomplishment was intentionally
misleading when it says the Moors were Africans using the geological
sense of that term "Africans" without explaining that culture of that
civilization was Arabic.
TheChosenPig
2005-09-15 21:53:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Post by Cheeze
By your logic, no one will be called Asian.
I do admit that I never liked the term "Asian" except when using it to
refer to geographic location.
I most respectfully suggest "Asiatic" for your consideration. :-)

Oriental Pig
amanda
2005-09-16 04:45:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Post by Cheeze
By your logic, no one will be called Asian.
I do admit that I never liked the term "Asian" except when using it to
refer to geographic location.
Post by Cheeze
Amanda, you need to realize that there is a difference between Asian,
a geographic term,
Post by Cheeze
and a racial term like Semite, Mongoloid, Malay, Indian, etc.
I am well aware of that. Why wouldn't I be giving my ethnic
background?
I meant to type "given", not giving.
Rifty
2005-09-17 03:57:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
I stand on my point that the book my neighbor was
given to learn her racial group's past accomplishment was intentionally
misleading when it says the Moors were Africans using the geological
sense of that term "Africans" without explaining that culture of that
civilization was Arabic.
Without wishing to offend you, I think you're the one with the problem
here. The culture you are referring to - that of Moors - is not just
Arabic, but heavily influenced by non-Arab African culture. The Moorish
influence in Spain also was influenced by the 'African' element of
Muslim culture. You are creating another misunderstanding by insisting
on your classification.

Rifty
--
Academic and Computing Help
http://rifty.net
TheChosenPig
2005-09-13 16:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
Why is this such a Big Fucking Deal with you, O TheChosenAmanda?

TheChosenPig
amanda
2005-09-13 17:20:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenPig
Why is this such a Big Fucking Deal with you, O TheChosenAmanda?
With the choice of words you use, I can understand that historical fact
is not important to you.
Go drown yourself in beer which you best skills lie.
TheChosenPig
2005-09-13 17:32:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
Post by TheChosenPig
Why is this such a Big Fucking Deal with you, O TheChosenAmanda?
With the choice of words you use, I can understand that historical fact
is not important to you.
Forgive me. I shall watch my fucking mouth from now on. And my history
comes solely from our very own resident historian, Doctor NGO Bien Ptui,
PeeEchDee in Comparative Sudskies.
Post by amanda
Go drown yourself in beer which you best skills lie.
Not before I try to drink it all, O TheChosenAmanda, even if it kills
me. May I offer you a mug of ale?

Do you have a website?

TheChosenBudweiserPig
--
"Beer is proof that God wants us to be happy..."
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-14 01:06:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
If it will help race isn't a geographic definition dumbass!
a***@yahoo.com
2005-09-14 18:32:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
If it will help race isn't a geographic definition dumbass!
I never implied that race determines geography nor that geography
determine race. You insisted moors as being from Morocco which is in
Africa and hence moors are Africans, the term in current days usage
refers to Negroid African cutlure when one talks about the culture.
And now you come telling me race isn't a geographic definiton? Idiot.
I am not wasting anymore of my time edcuating you.
TheChosenPig
2005-09-14 21:07:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
If it will help race isn't a geographic definition dumbass!
I never implied that race determines geography nor that geography
determine race. You insisted moors as being from Morocco which is in
Africa and hence moors are Africans, the term in current days usage
refers to Negroid African cutlure when one talks about the culture.
And now you come telling me race isn't a geographic definiton? Idiot.
I am not wasting anymore of my time edcuating you.
But please do spend some quality time educating yourself, my dearest Amanda.

Your Loyal Pig
--
"Beer is proof that God wants us to be happy..."
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-14 23:40:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by amanda
If it makes you feel better to call the Arabs Africans, go ahead.
Then, make sure to be sconsistent such that you refer to the Saudis as
Asians, not Arabs.
If it will help race isn't a geographic definition dumbass!
I never implied that race determines geography nor that geography
determine race. You insisted moors as being from Morocco which is in
Africa and hence moors are Africans, the term in current days usage
refers to Negroid African cutlure when one talks about the culture.
And now you come telling me race isn't a geographic definiton? Idiot.
I am not wasting anymore of my time edcuating you.
Poor dolt you haven't educated anyone- least of all yourself!
Try learning something- like Chinese are Asians- yes, they are- that
doesn't mean all asians are chinese.... moors compromise many ethnic
groups (mainly african)- morocco isn't in the middle east- it is in
Africa. Morocco is part of the "Arab " world- which is a national
(cultural) term not a genetic term or geographic as you've implied.
Turks,Kurds,and Irainians are indistinguishable from Suadis, and Iraqis
but, aren't considered Arab because they don't speak Arabic and in some
instances use their own alphabet- again, you have no clue about this
subject- EDUCATE YOURSELF!
amanda
2005-09-15 00:18:44 UTC
Permalink
The ONLY subject I was talking about was that Moors were not African in
the sense that my African-American neighbor was being misled to by the
African history book of their race and culture she was learning from.
You on the other hand, failed to refute my claim that what my neighbor
was being fed was wrong. All you did was go in circle and acting like
you are the expert on the subject, whatever subject you thought you
were talking about.
j***@gmail.com
2005-09-15 22:25:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by amanda
The ONLY subject I was talking about was that Moors were not African in
the sense that my African-American neighbor was being misled to by the
African history book of their race and culture she was learning from.
And your own web site proved you wrong DUH!
Post by amanda
You on the other hand, failed to refute my claim that what my neighbor
was being fed was wrong.
LIAR!

All you did was go in circle and acting like
Post by amanda
you are the expert on the subject, whatever subject you thought you
were talking about.
You mean you tried to change the subject and then lied about it- IDIOT!
TheChosenPig
2005-09-11 03:28:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenFool
Wake up... Today African-Americans... You'll get yours yet...
Fuck you very much.

DSP
TheChosenFool
2005-09-11 08:59:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenPig
Post by TheChosenFool
Wake up... Today African-Americans... You'll get yours yet...
Fuck you very much.
Eat shit, fuckwit.
You know what? I now take Viagra with Valium, so that if I don't get a
fuck, I don't give a fuck...
TheChosenPig
2005-09-11 20:02:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenFool
Post by TheChosenPig
Post by TheChosenFool
Wake up... Today African-Americans... You'll get yours yet...
Fuck you very much.
Eat shit, fuckwit.
Pass the Tabasco, please.
Post by TheChosenFool
You know what? I now take Viagra with Valium, so that if I don't get a
fuck, I don't give a fuck...
Your fate is in your hand.
--
"Beer is proof that God wants us to be happy..."
Rose Melinis
2005-09-10 18:03:47 UTC
Permalink
Listen up here Jesse Jackson: Go back to extorting NASCAR, Coke, Pepsi.
Let's not be writing under a pseudonym.
Post by p***@ixsi.com
"Racism" is the cause of the sluggish response to help New Orleans
IXSI Network
Special report from New Orleans
Sep 02 2005
by North American reporter
Katrina has exposed the ugly underbelly of the USA for the world to
see. The unimaginable suffering of the Black population in New Orleans
and elsewhere in the "Apartheid South" due to the hurricane is
primarily due to the deeply ingrained racism that exists throughout
America
but especially in the "Old South" against the former "slaves". New
Orleans is 70% Black and most earn less than one half what Whites do.
The foot dragging to send in food, water and medicine to help the
dying, mostly Blacks, trapped at the Astrodome is due to the deep
animosity, now hidden, of Whites towards Blacks.
The examples of racism against New Orleans during their hour of need
are many. The first is the fact that the Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) and other White run federal agencies knew of the
impending catastrophe but chose to ignore it. There were already
numerous reports that New Orleans was in imminent danger of a major
catastrophe because the levy system that holds back the sea needed
upgrading. Instead, federal funds designated to fix the dikes were cut.
"Who cares about those poor niggers and drag queens in the Big Easy,
let it sink into the sea!" is what the Black mayors of New Orleans
heard consistently over the years. Another example is what is being
heard on radio in the Los Angeles area. Bill Handel, and extremely
hateful and obnoxious Jewish talk jock, said of the Blacks breaking
into food stores, "The cops should just shoot those animals in the
head". The same was heard from the anti-Mexican bigot Doug McIntyre on
another LA based radio station.
There is no doubt that there could have been a more rapid and efficient
response if there would have been the "will" to do so. No one cared,
not Bush nor most other responsible government agents until the
embarrassing photographs of the horrific situation were being
transmitted across the world. After much, of what only amounted to,
"lip service" by government officials, George Bush put on a show today
for the press giving the impression that he would fly to New Orleans to
"save the day". "The cavalry is here to save New Orleans" he said.
What a sham!
What happened to all the USA Chinook helicopters? What happened to the
Louisiana National Guard? What happened to the US Army's ability to
deploy emergency hospitals in a matter of hours? Perhaps they are busy
reconstructing Iraq. What a shame! We wonder what Black soldiers in
Iraq from Louisiana and Mississippi think when viewing the pictures of
old Black women and Black children dead on the concrete inside and in
the parking lot of the Astrodome. They died of hunger and thirst and
because of the lack of essential medications. Supplies that were denied
to the Black refugees simply because no one cared.
The same thing may happen to the large Mexican-American population in
the southwest if a similar catastrophe should occur here. If a major
earthquake or terrorist attack should befall Los Angeles, San Antonio,
San Diego or San Francisco, would the White run government emergency
agencies do to us what they did to the Blacks in New Orleans? Would
they choose to apply resources to save the predominate White areas and
leave us to die? The time to plan and prepare is now!
a***@attbi.com
2005-09-11 14:23:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@ixsi.com
"Racism" is the cause of the sluggish response to help New Orleans
It opened up the whole can of worms -- race, poverty, old age, etc.

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
http://sambali.blogspot.com
Sheik Oily Oleum
2005-09-11 20:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@attbi.com
Post by p***@ixsi.com
"Racism" is the cause of the sluggish response to help New Orleans
It opened up the whole can of worms -- race, poverty, old age, etc.
Sez the Slimy Snake
Congenital Kano
2005-09-12 01:01:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@attbi.com
Post by p***@ixsi.com
"Racism" is the cause of the sluggish response to help New Orleans
It opened up the whole can of worms -- race, poverty, old age, etc.
Indeed.

Why did the Democrat Mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, fail to follow the
disaster plan and arrange for the municipal and school busses at his
disposal when he first instituted the voluntary evacuation 2 days before the
levee broke? (Psst. He's black...) They were supposed to go into the poor
areas and evacuate anyone without transportation. He failed to even to put
out an alert to bus drivers. Thus tens of thousands who wanted to leave but
did not have transportation (who were identified and anticipated by the
disaster plan) were left to suffer and die in NO.

Why did the Democrat Governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Blanco, fail to update
the Louisiana disaster plan following 9-11, hurricane Ivan, and the
disasterous results of the evaluation of preparedness a year ago?

Why did the Louisiana Homeland Security Department, under the Democratic
governor, refuse Red Cross and Salvation Army convoys of food, water and
supplies to the Superdome because they did not want to make people too
comfortable?

Why did the Democrat governor not position more than 300 National Guard
troops at the Superdome to maintain order?

Why did the Democrat governor divert federal resources slated for levee
reinforcement to working on the commercial peers and gambling boats?

Why did the Democrat governor not request specific aid from the federal
government in the days following the disaster, and why has she *still*
refused to turn over control of the National Guard and state agencies to
federal control?

Why did the Democrat police chief of Gretna shut down the bridge which was
the main intact avenue out of NO to the west, trapping people inside the
city?

The race debate *should* be reframed. Isn't it amazing how whites have
donated so much to assist the poor blacks and elderly affected by Katrina?
How whitebread states like Utah have opened their arms to the poor blacks
that have been given shelter there? How people of all races risked their
lives and limbs rescuing the poor, the black, the elederly, without a
thought to who or what they were? Isn't this a complete debunking of the
race baiting and professional racists like Jesse Jackson who claim that
whites don't care about blacks?

Isn't it instructive how a welfare state, perfected in NO, leaves those
caught in its seductive grip (don't work! don't better yourself! the
gummint will take care of you!) defenseless against what nature brings?
Isn't this the best example of how people need to improve their lives and be
prepared to take care of themselves and their family rather than letting the
gummint do so?

Thanks for opening up this topic, Deep One!

Walk into the punch again, please Pig
tumbaga
2005-09-12 03:45:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Congenital Kano
Post by a***@attbi.com
Post by p***@ixsi.com
"Racism" is the cause of the sluggish response to help New Orleans
It opened up the whole can of worms -- race, poverty, old age, etc.
Indeed.
Why did the Democrat Mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, fail to follow the
disaster plan and arrange for the municipal and school busses at his
disposal when he first instituted the voluntary evacuation 2 days before the
levee broke? (Psst. He's black...) They were supposed to go into the poor
areas and evacuate anyone without transportation. He failed to even to put
out an alert to bus drivers. Thus tens of thousands who wanted to leave but
did not have transportation (who were identified and anticipated by the
disaster plan) were left to suffer and die in NO.
The state dept of Homeland Security did use buses to haul people out,
all the way until the levee broke and enundated the whole city. The
Mayor was at the forefront of the whole thing.
Post by Congenital Kano
Why did the Democrat Governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Blanco, fail to update
the Louisiana disaster plan following 9-11, hurricane Ivan, and the
disasterous results of the evaluation of preparedness a year ago?
She did, and it was upgraded to the Federal level before the storm
actually hit.
Post by Congenital Kano
Why did the Louisiana Homeland Security Department, under the Democratic
governor, refuse Red Cross and Salvation Army convoys of food, water and
supplies to the Superdome because they did not want to make people too
comfortable?
They did not, after the levee broke, they asked the Red Cross not to
come in for their own safety, the waters brought debris and bacteria
infested sewer materials into the open.
Post by Congenital Kano
Why did the Democrat governor not position more than 300 National Guard
troops at the Superdome to maintain order?
There aren't any National Guard to call, Police officers are on 24 hour
notice, several died or disappeared, some just left and abandoned their
posts.
Post by Congenital Kano
Why did the Democrat governor divert federal resources slated for levee
reinforcement to working on the commercial peers and gambling boats?
Why did the Democrat governor not request specific aid from the federal
government in the days following the disaster, and why has she *still*
refused to turn over control of the National Guard and state agencies to
federal control?
She did.
Post by Congenital Kano
Why did the Democrat police chief of Gretna shut down the bridge which was
the main intact avenue out of NO to the west, trapping people inside the
city?
The race debate *should* be reframed. Isn't it amazing how whites have
donated so much to assist the poor blacks and elderly affected by Katrina?
How whitebread states like Utah have opened their arms to the poor blacks
that have been given shelter there? How people of all races risked their
lives and limbs rescuing the poor, the black, the elederly, without a
thought to who or what they were? Isn't this a complete debunking of the
race baiting and professional racists like Jesse Jackson who claim that
whites don't care about blacks?
Isn't it instructive how a welfare state, perfected in NO, leaves those
caught in its seductive grip (don't work! don't better yourself! the
gummint will take care of you!) defenseless against what nature brings?
Isn't this the best example of how people need to improve their lives and be
prepared to take care of themselves and their family rather than letting the
gummint do so?
Thanks for opening up this topic, Deep One!
Walk into the punch again, please Pig
There are a lot of lies coming from the right wing and you are
swallowing this whole.
There are plenty of blame to go around, but to blame one group
(Democrats, from the mayor to the governor) is terrible, what you are
saying are the smoke screen created to ward of the part against the
Federal Government.

There are a lot of weaknesses in the whole scenario, the City and area
is too big to cover, simulation showed this a year before, since that
time no one has devised a way to fix the problem.

Everyone assumed it would not happen since for quite some time, no one
in the area has experienced category four storm.
Congenital Kano
2005-09-12 05:51:55 UTC
Permalink
"tumbaga" <***@hindiginto.ito> wrote in message news:***@corp.supernews.com...

OK, Tans, I don't have time for this, but you are flat wrong on these points. Don't know where you are getting your info, but you are simply wrong.
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
Post by a***@attbi.com
Post by p***@ixsi.com
"Racism" is the cause of the sluggish response to help New Orleans
It opened up the whole can of worms -- race, poverty, old age, etc.
Indeed.
Why did the Democrat Mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, fail to follow the
disaster plan and arrange for the municipal and school busses at his
disposal when he first instituted the voluntary evacuation 2 days before the
levee broke? (Psst. He's black...) They were supposed to go into the poor
areas and evacuate anyone without transportation. He failed to even to put
out an alert to bus drivers. Thus tens of thousands who wanted to leave but
did not have transportation (who were identified and anticipated by the
disaster plan) were left to suffer and die in NO.
The state dept of Homeland Security did use buses to haul people out,
all the way until the levee broke and enundated the whole city. The
Mayor was at the forefront of the whole thing.
Please provide a cite for this. The buses wew not used to haul people out of danger. Some muni buses were used to haul people at the last minute to the Superdome and the Convention Center. This was NOT what the plan called for!

"City officials had 550 municipal buses and hundreds of additional school buses at their disposal but made no plans to use them to get people out of New Orleans before the storm, said Chester Wilmot, a civil engineering professor at Louisiana State University and an expert in transportation planning, who helped the city put together its evacuation plan. Instead, local buses were used to ferry people from 12 pickup points to poorly supplied "shelters of last resort" in the city." Houston Chronicle, 9/8/05
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
Why did the Democrat Governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Blanco, fail to update
the Louisiana disaster plan following 9-11, hurricane Ivan, and the
disasterous results of the evaluation of preparedness a year ago?
She did, and it was upgraded to the Federal level before the storm
actually hit.
The hurricane disaster plan was updated? Perhaps you should inform the Louisiana Homeland Security Office of Emergency Preparedness. Please read the date of the last plan posted on their site.

You seem to be lost at sea on this "Federal level" thing. When the federal government declares a federal state of emergency, it does *not* give them plenary police powers to act. They *do not* take over the State's National Guard, or take responsibility for first responders, or implement their own emergency plan.

A federal state of emergency (based upon the Stafford Act) was called *in spite of Gov. Blanco's failure to meet the requirements* on Friday, 3 days before the storm hit. This does not put the President in charge of the local agencies, it puts the federal government in a position to assist the state and coordinate between various groups.

You seem to think that the declaration of an emergency put Louisiana under federal marshall law and minimized the efforts of local pols. This is not true. The federal involvement is a *supplement* to state and local action. It does not supplant it.
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
Why did the Louisiana Homeland Security Department, under the Democratic
governor, refuse Red Cross and Salvation Army convoys of food, water and
supplies to the Superdome because they did not want to make people too
comfortable?
They did not, after the levee broke, they asked the Red Cross not to
come in for their own safety, the waters brought debris and bacteria
infested sewer materials into the open.
Wrong again, Tanso.

In a story that the Red Cross has confirmed, FNC's Major Garrett broke the story about how, on Wednedsay following the levee break, the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security (no relation to the feds) turned away Red Cross trucks with food, water, and other supplies. They could have reached the Superdome without hitting water. They were told that the state wanted people to *leave* the Superdome, so they did not want to make them more comfortable.

There was *nothing* about worrying about safety - this is your invention.
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
Why did the Democrat governor not position more than 300 National Guard
troops at the Superdome to maintain order?
There aren't any National Guard to call, Police officers are on 24 hour
notice, several died or disappeared, some just left and abandoned their
posts.
Geez, where *do* you get your information?

6,500 Louisiana National Guard troops were available - 3500 of which were on active "hurricane duty" at the time of Katrina. This includes the biggest construction battalion in the LNG.

There are over 40,000 military in the NO area right now.

Blanco had the troops. She just didn't send them. Period.
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
Why did the Democrat governor divert federal resources slated for levee
reinforcement to working on the commercial peers and gambling boats?
Why did the Democrat governor not request specific aid from the federal
government in the days following the disaster, and why has she *still*
refused to turn over control of the National Guard and state agencies to
federal control?
She did.
False, Tans. Don't confuse what you think you heard or read somewhere with facts. Check what you say before you write.

"Blanco met the presidential party at Baton Rouge Metropolitan Airport, carrying a letter to Bush which showed she's not budging on the issue of federalizing local law enforcement and the state's National Guard, which the president had attempted to do Friday." (The Advocate Newspaper, Baton Rouge, 9/6/05.)
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
Why did the Democrat police chief of Gretna shut down the bridge which was
the main intact avenue out of NO to the west, trapping people inside the
city?
The race debate *should* be reframed. Isn't it amazing how whites have
donated so much to assist the poor blacks and elderly affected by Katrina?
How whitebread states like Utah have opened their arms to the poor blacks
that have been given shelter there? How people of all races risked their
lives and limbs rescuing the poor, the black, the elederly, without a
thought to who or what they were? Isn't this a complete debunking of the
race baiting and professional racists like Jesse Jackson who claim that
whites don't care about blacks?
Isn't it instructive how a welfare state, perfected in NO, leaves those
caught in its seductive grip (don't work! don't better yourself! the
gummint will take care of you!) defenseless against what nature brings?
Isn't this the best example of how people need to improve their lives and be
prepared to take care of themselves and their family rather than letting the
gummint do so?
Thanks for opening up this topic, Deep One!
Walk into the punch again, please Pig
There are a lot of lies coming from the right wing and you are
swallowing this whole.
OK. Support that statement.

I provide the links, Tans, you provide the hot air and propaganda. I have just demoinstrated that you don't know what you are talking about on this issue, so you have a choice - keep on posting garbage like this, or support your claims with some documentation, or stay quiet when you don't know what you are talking about.

PROVE that anything I have written is a lie, Tans, or apologize. Your ignorance is no excuse for slander.
Post by tumbaga
There are plenty of blame to go around, but to blame one group
(Democrats, from the mayor to the governor) is terrible, what you are
saying are the smoke screen created to ward of the part against the
Federal Government.
No. I believe that there is blame to go around. I just will not tolerate fools who do not know what FEMA is, or who do not understand the role of local and state government, or who whitewash the clear-cut errors of local Dems like you do above.

FEMA has been revealed to be a repository of not one but many patronage appointees. It has degraded since being folded into the HS department - which was a big Democrat push (Remember how Bush was attacked by Kerry ads saying he had put off signing the HS bill forming that boondoggle? No? How short peoples' memories are...) In it's defense, timeline analysis have shown that it has responded in force faster than in the past to hurricanes, but this is still not good enough.

The MSM and the Dems have siezed upon this as the Next Big Thing they will use to unhorse the Republicans. Name ONE Dem who has criticized ONE local Dem politician - you can't, because they all point fingers at FEMA and Bush. But FEMA is NOT a first responder (they are a small agency with 2500 employees, mostly clerks! They don't have rescue squads or policemen).

The whitewash of the local responsibility is apalling.

"Florida emergency planners criticized and even rebuked their counterparts -- or what passes for emergency planners -- in those states for their handling of Hurricane Katrina. Gov. Jeb Bush, the head of Florida AHCA and the head of Florida wildlife (which is responsible for all search and rescue) all said they made offers of aid to Mississippi and Louisiana the day before Katrina hit but were rebuffed. After the storm, they said they've had to not only help provide people to those states but also have had to develop search and rescue plans for them. "They were completely unprepared -- as bad off as we were before Andrew," one Florida official said." (Palm Beach Post, 9/10/05).
Post by tumbaga
There are a lot of weaknesses in the whole scenario, the City and area
is too big to cover, simulation showed this a year before, since that
time no one has devised a way to fix the problem.
Everyone assumed it would not happen since for quite some time, no one
in the area has experienced category four storm.
And this is the *state's* fault. You make my point. They could have learned from Florida, but they didn't. Do you think - just maybe? - that this was due to the unprecedented amount of corruption in LA politics? Can you imagine the NYPD on tape shoplifting DVDs and electronics like the NOPD did? Can you imagine 200 turning in their badges because it got too hard?

The NO state and local machine is an embarassment.

Should the Feds have responded faster and better? Yes. Was this response faster than previous ones? Yes, according to the people who went through major hurricanes in the past few years. Over 9000 people died in a heatwave in Chicago under Billy Jeff's watch, and he didn't even declare an emergency. Was that turned into a big political issue?

Here is the face of racism regarding Katrina:

http://soapbox.townhall.com/story/2005/9/6/165052/2340

Race is not an issue Pig
tumbaga
2005-09-12 08:01:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Congenital Kano
OK, Tans, I don't have time for this, but you are flat wrong on these
points. Don't know where you are getting your info, but you are simply
wrong.
I heard actual interviews with the people you are accusing of being
unresponsive, yes, even the former head of FEMA. That someone else is
accusing, probably deservedly so.

Come back with your retort after the hushed up report of the White
House, that you and I will never hear on regular news.
Congenital Kano
2005-09-12 18:40:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
OK, Tans, I don't have time for this, but you are flat wrong on these
points. Don't know where you are getting your info, but you are simply
wrong.
I heard actual interviews with the people you are accusing of being
unresponsive, yes, even the former head of FEMA. That someone else is
accusing, probably deservedly so.
Come back with your retort after the hushed up report of the White House,
that you and I will never hear on regular news.
So you have nothing. And you're not big enough to acknowledge individual
errors you made. Fine. Don't talk about things you know nothing about.

Are you aware that this "former head of FEMA" was Clinton's and now works
for the Louisiana governor?

Hmmm, wonder if he has any bias? Any particular position to defend?

And your assumption is that there will be a "hushed-up report" when you have
the ability of partisans from both sides to participate.

Face facts, Tans. The mayor and governor blew it big time. FEMA and the
federal gummint have little to do as first responders except provide money
to the state as it requests.

Now, Mayor Nagin is saying that he *tried* to get bus drivers to follow the
plan but no one was answering the phone. This makes it all the bus drivers'
fault. Not that he should have arranged things before hand so people know
what to do and were prepared - no, that would have been *serving* the poor
and elderly. Instead he played games and waited until it was too late.

If you know so much, show me *what* FEMA was tasked to do that it failed to
do, in specifics, based upon the law. Show me what the president was tasked
to do and didn't do, based upon his powers in the Executive. Show why it
was because of federal problems, not state.

Come on, you have a lot of opinions, how about some solid facts and
arguments instead of blind partisan blamesmanship!

George Bush causes AIDs (no, that was Reagan... sorry) Pig
tumbaga
2005-09-13 06:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Congenital Kano
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
OK, Tans, I don't have time for this, but you are flat wrong on these
points. Don't know where you are getting your info, but you are simply
wrong.
I heard actual interviews with the people you are accusing of being
unresponsive, yes, even the former head of FEMA. That someone else is
accusing, probably deservedly so.
Come back with your retort after the hushed up report of the White House,
that you and I will never hear on regular news.
So you have nothing. And you're not big enough to acknowledge individual
errors you made. Fine. Don't talk about things you know nothing about.
Are you aware that this "former head of FEMA" was Clinton's and now works
for the Louisiana governor?
Hmmm, wonder if he has any bias? Any particular position to defend?
And your assumption is that there will be a "hushed-up report" when you have
the ability of partisans from both sides to participate.
Face facts, Tans. The mayor and governor blew it big time. FEMA and the
federal gummint have little to do as first responders except provide money
to the state as it requests.
Now, Mayor Nagin is saying that he *tried* to get bus drivers to follow the
plan but no one was answering the phone. This makes it all the bus drivers'
fault. Not that he should have arranged things before hand so people know
what to do and were prepared - no, that would have been *serving* the poor
and elderly. Instead he played games and waited until it was too late.
But the busses were already rolling according to the man on the street
working on the busses, interview on TV, but that was after the fact so
you can say, it is but propaganda. BTW telephones, both landlines and
cell were down.
Post by Congenital Kano
If you know so much, show me *what* FEMA was tasked to do that it failed to
do, in specifics, based upon the law. Show me what the president was tasked
to do and didn't do, based upon his powers in the Executive. Show why it
was because of federal problems, not state.
Come on, you have a lot of opinions, how about some solid facts and
arguments instead of blind partisan blamesmanship!
George Bush causes AIDs (no, that was Reagan... sorry) Pig
What that things did happen? That is an opinion?
The real problem is that good ol' "Assuming" that it won't be that bad
again. Everybody assumed. So no one is prepared. Icluding FEMA.

Your position is to defend the seating president, why?
TheChosenPig
2005-09-13 16:05:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
OK, Tans, I don't have time for this, but you are flat wrong on
these points. Don't know where you are getting your info, but you
are simply wrong.
I heard actual interviews with the people you are accusing of being
unresponsive, yes, even the former head of FEMA. That someone else is
accusing, probably deservedly so.
Come back with your retort after the hushed up report of the White
House, that you and I will never hear on regular news.
So you have nothing. And you're not big enough to acknowledge
individual errors you made. Fine. Don't talk about things you know
nothing about.
Are you aware that this "former head of FEMA" was Clinton's and now
works for the Louisiana governor?
Hmmm, wonder if he has any bias? Any particular position to defend?
And your assumption is that there will be a "hushed-up report" when
you have the ability of partisans from both sides to participate.
Face facts, Tans. The mayor and governor blew it big time. FEMA and
the federal gummint have little to do as first responders except
provide money to the state as it requests.
Now, Mayor Nagin is saying that he *tried* to get bus drivers to
follow the plan but no one was answering the phone. This makes it all
the bus drivers' fault. Not that he should have arranged things
before hand so people know what to do and were prepared - no, that
would have been *serving* the poor and elderly. Instead he played
games and waited until it was too late.
But the busses were already rolling according to the man on the street
working on the busses, interview on TV, but that was after the fact so
you can say, it is but propaganda. BTW telephones, both landlines and
cell were down.
Post by Congenital Kano
If you know so much, show me *what* FEMA was tasked to do that it
failed to do, in specifics, based upon the law. Show me what the
president was tasked to do and didn't do, based upon his powers in the
Executive. Show why it was because of federal problems, not state.
Come on, you have a lot of opinions, how about some solid facts and
arguments instead of blind partisan blamesmanship!
George Bush causes AIDs (no, that was Reagan... sorry) Pig
What that things did happen? That is an opinion?
The real problem is that good ol' "Assuming" that it won't be that bad
again. Everybody assumed. So no one is prepared. Icluding FEMA.
Your position is to defend the seating president, why?
Tanso, don't you find it REALLY WEIRD that FEMA and the President are
being hassled? Why is a vital link in the chain of command being
ignored, namely, Homeland Security, FEMA's mother agency? FEMA doesn't
report directly to the President, as I'm sure you know. Why the detour?
I'm really interested in your take on this.

PIGsa
Congenital Kano
2005-09-13 20:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChosenPig
Tanso, don't you find it REALLY WEIRD that FEMA and the President are
being hassled? Why is a vital link in the chain of command being ignored,
namely, Homeland Security, FEMA's mother agency? FEMA doesn't report
directly to the President, as I'm sure you know. Why the detour? I'm
really interested in your take on this.
(Hand waving wildly in air)

I know, I know! Call on me!

Could it be because the Homeland Security Department was the brainchild of
the Democrats, and many Republicans (including the president) opposed its
creation? That this opposition to HS was highlighted as a campaign issue by
John F'n Kerry? That rolling FEMA into HS was the Democrats' idea?

Do I get a star? Pig
Sheik Oily Oleum
2005-09-13 20:53:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Congenital Kano
Post by TheChosenPig
Tanso, don't you find it REALLY WEIRD that FEMA and the President are
being hassled? Why is a vital link in the chain of command being ignored,
namely, Homeland Security, FEMA's mother agency? FEMA doesn't report
directly to the President, as I'm sure you know. Why the detour? I'm
really interested in your take on this.
(Hand waving wildly in air)
I know, I know! Call on me!
Could it be because the Homeland Security Department was the brainchild of
the Democrats, and many Republicans (including the president) opposed its
creation? That this opposition to HS was highlighted as a campaign issue by
John F'n Kerry? That rolling FEMA into HS was the Democrats' idea?
Do I get a star? Pig
Let me grab the six-pointed star from my Christmas---OOOOPS!---Holiday
tree. And don't recite until I call you!

I think M'Lester ought to point this out in a blog, dontchatinkso?
Job's all yours if you want it.

Sheik, Baby, Sheik!
Congenital Kano
2005-09-13 20:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
Face facts, Tans. The mayor and governor blew it big time. FEMA and the
federal gummint have little to do as first responders except provide money
to the state as it requests.
Now, Mayor Nagin is saying that he *tried* to get bus drivers to follow the
plan but no one was answering the phone. This makes it all the bus drivers'
fault. Not that he should have arranged things before hand so people know
what to do and were prepared - no, that would have been *serving* the poor
and elderly. Instead he played games and waited until it was too late.
But the busses were already rolling according to the man on the street
working on the busses, interview on TV, but that was after the fact so
you can say, it is but propaganda. BTW telephones, both landlines and
cell were down.
Tans, you have a very myopic understanding of what happened. Think of the timeline.

Saturday - August 27 - Mayor Nagin calls for voluntary evacuation of the city
Sunday - August 28 - Mayor Nagin calls for mandatory evacuation
Monday - August 29 - Katrina hits
Tuesday - Levees break

The phones were all working just fine on Saturday and Sunday. There was no flooding. There was no hurricane winds.

The "Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Evacuation and Sheltering Plan" called for the city to use buses to evacuate those who did not have their own transportation:

Under "Part II: Situations and Assumptions":
5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating.

17. As a hurricane causes the need for a mass evacuation from the Southeastern area, the Governor will declare a state of emergency that will require host parishes outside the risk area to open designated shelters.

23. As evacuation routes are closed, people who are still in the risk area will be directed to last resort refuge within the area.

Under the "Precautionary/Voluntary Evacuation" section of "Concept of Operations":

7. Local transportation resources should be marshaled and public transportation plans implemented as needed.

8. Announce the location of staging areas for people who need transportation. Public transportation will concentrate on moving people from the staging areas to safety in host parishes with priority given to people with special needs.

Under "Recommended Evacuation" in the same section:

2. Mobilize parish/local transportation to assist persons who lack transportation or who have mobility problems.

3. Announce the location of staging areas for people who need transportation. Public transportation will concentrate on moving people from the staging areas to safety in host parishes with priority given to people with special needs.

Under "Mandatory Evacuation":

4. Designate staging areas and other facilities as last resort refuges. People at these locations who cannot be evacuated in time to avoid the storm will remain and take refuge in the designated buildings.

5. Assist persons with mobility limitations to find last resort refuge. Mobilize all transportation resources and request assistance from the state as needed.

Under "Part V: Shelter Operations":

g. Last resort refuge inside the risk area will be the responsibility of the local parish government.

Under "Part VI: Staging Areas / Last Resort Refuge":

The definition of a staging area is a central location, easily accessible to those ambulatory people who are in need of transportation to a shelter.

1. Residents who have no means of transportation will be directed to the staging areas.

2. Transportation vehicles will be pre-positioned to transport residents to shelters.

***

In an interview on Radio Station WWL-AM on September 2, Nagin said:

"I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here. I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans.""

****

Let's look at this.

Nagin declared a voluntary evacuation on Saturday. Weather was fine. He did not follow the Hurricane Evacuation and Shelter plan which called for the use of city transportation - including school buses - to shelter *outside the expected damage area*. Phones were working. Cell and landlines.

Sunday, Nagin started using limited muni buses to transport people to the Superdome, which was *not* according to plan. The Superdome was a "Last Resort Refuge", and was both unsuited and unprepared as a shelter.

Nagin had over 800 buses at his disposal to begin evacuations Saturday as required by the plan to take people out of the threatened area to shelters outside Southeastern Louisiana. He failed to mobilize these buses. When he had clear weather. When he had phone communications. When he had time.

Now, Nagin claims that he could not locate enough drivers. Think about this - he could not locate "enough" - so he used none? On Friday and Saturday he could not find the drivers? And when you have 800 buses, how many drivers do you have? 1600? Out of 1600 *none* were willing to drive their buses to safety (and, BTW, get their *own* butts to safety)? This is clearly an excuse.
Post by tumbaga
Post by Congenital Kano
If you know so much, show me *what* FEMA was tasked to do that it failed to
do, in specifics, based upon the law. Show me what the president was tasked
to do and didn't do, based upon his powers in the Executive. Show why it
was because of federal problems, not state.
Come on, you have a lot of opinions, how about some solid facts and
arguments instead of blind partisan blamesmanship!
George Bush causes AIDs (no, that was Reagan... sorry) Pig
What that things did happen? That is an opinion?
The real problem is that good ol' "Assuming" that it won't be that bad
again. Everybody assumed. So no one is prepared. Icluding FEMA.
It is the local government and state who have the reponsibility for the health,safety, and welfare of their citizens constitutionally. These are what are known as the plenary police powers of the state, reserved to the state by the Tenth Amendment of the Constitution.

This is explicitly acknowledged in Louisiana's Hurricane plan, which I suggest you read to gain some informed insight into what the sate and local officials failed to do. Read it and ask yourself - is this what happened? When they had such clear warning and days to prepare?

Again, I don't think you understand FEMA. They are essentially a huge ATM to provide resources to state and local governments when those local resources are not sufficient. There is absolutely *no* evidence that the city could not have used the available buses - all 800 plus - to go into the areas they knew from plans and tests to be vulnerable and evacuate people well before the storm. This should have been done - per the plan - as early as Friday before the storm when the governor declared a state of emergency.
Post by tumbaga
Your position is to defend the seating president, why?
No. Bush failed the nation in appointing Brown, who was not up to the task. He should have dropped his schedule Sunday or Monday at the latest and returned to Washington, in spite of what his aides said (even though all reports on Monday said "NO dodged the bullet" - the levees did not break until Tuesday). He should have withstood the criticism (which you know this "fascist dictator" would have gotten) and invoked the insurrection clause to federalize the National Guard, put Gen. Honore in charge, and taken effective control of all emergency response. This was a clear failure of leadership, which should have been decisively exercised when it was clear that the state and local officials were incompetent.

That said, the complete shift of blame onto the federal government, FEMA and the president by the Democrats and their house organs in the mainstream media without equal attention to the failures of the state and local government is inexcusable.

The federal government's role is to take over where the state and local authorities have run out of resources. Here, Nagin and Blanco failed to use their resources until it was too late (and the buses and NO were under water).

Even private citizens acted with more calm and resolve than Nagin and Blanco, helping themselves when the city and state failed them.

Accountability Pig
amanda
2005-09-12 19:21:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by tumbaga
Everyone assumed it would not happen since for quite some time, no one
in the area has experienced category four storm.
Isn't it amazing that with all the etchnology and sciene people (human)
still holds out for hope that *it* won't happen instaed of the
preparation which they can afford to do unlike in Banglasdesh where
people die every year form the storms because thye have no where to go.
with no government evacuation plan.

I predict that when Pseunami hits again after we're all gone from this
earth, it will be as devastating as ever because we, as a human race,
just don't have out acts together to control the damage (by evacuation
mainly in this case) that we can with our current day technology. It
does boil down to "the people in charge not caring enough".
BookBook
2005-09-13 02:58:17 UTC
Permalink
The Governor was caught on CNN lying about the facts regarding her
requests to the president. Asked by CNN reporter on what "specifically"
and "when" did she make the official requests for assistance from the
White House, she could not answer straight. She was also caught on
candid video by CNN talking to her aide saying that she should have
been more specific about her requests to the President.

The local officials blew it big time.
Stananger
2005-09-13 03:36:10 UTC
Permalink
CNN PRODUCERS TOLD ON-AIR GUESTS: GET ANGRY
Mon Sep 12 2005 12:42:11 ET

After weeks of intense Katrina coverage from the main press, LA TIMES guru
and former CNN host Michael Kinsley divulges that CNN was coaching guests
to artificially enhance emotions!

Kinsley writes:

"The TV news networks, which only a few months ago were piously suppressing
emotional fireworks by their pundits, are now piously encouraging their
news anchors to break out of the emotional straitjackets and express
outrage. A Los Angeles Times colleague of mine, appearing on CNN last week
to talk about Katrina, was told by a producer to 'get angry.'"



As I wrote in this NG earlier, the news on TV is doctored as well as the
print media.
This is good solid evidence of what you read and what you see isnt the truth
at all.
Post by BookBook
The Governor was caught on CNN lying about the facts regarding her
requests to the president. Asked by CNN reporter on what "specifically"
and "when" did she make the official requests for assistance from the
White House, she could not answer straight. She was also caught on
candid video by CNN talking to her aide saying that she should have
been more specific about her requests to the President.
The local officials blew it big time.
kris sundita aquino
2005-09-13 03:29:24 UTC
Permalink
this is soo pathetic

NEW ORLEANS - The bodies of more than 40 mostly elderly patients were
found in a flooded-out hospital in the biggest known cluster of corpses
to be discovered so far in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans.

The exact circumstances under which they died were unclear, with at
least one hospital official saying Monday at least a few of the
patients were dead before the storm, and another saying the rising
temperature in the hospital afterward likely contributed to some of the
deaths.

The announcement, which raised Louisiana's official death toll to
nearly 280, came as President Bush got his first up-close look at the
destruction and the embattled director of the Federal Emergency
Management Agency resigned.

Bush rode through New Orleans in an open truck with the governor and
mayor, ducking under low-hanging tree limbs and electrical wires.

"My impression of New Orleans is this: That there is a recovery on the
way," Bush said.

Despite miles of still flooded streets, there were encouraging signs of
recovery: Nearly two-thirds of southeastern Louisiana's water treatment
plants were up and running. Louis Armstrong New Orleans International
Airport planned to resume limited passenger service Tuesday. Forty-one
of 174 permanent pumps were in operation, on pace to help drain the
still half-flooded city by Oct. 8.

But that doesn't mean a quick return to normalcy for residents or for
business owners, who were let back in Monday to assess the damage and
begin the slow process of starting over.

It will be at least three months before New Orleans' public water
system is fully operational, said Sgt. John Zeller, a California
National Guard engineer working on the systems. Some homes have running
water now, but it's mostly untreated Mississippi River water - for
anyone wanting a bath, "It's like jumping in the river right now," he
said.

Others will find their homes aren't even livable.

There isn't a structure left standing in Hopedale, southeast of New
Orleans, St. Bernard Parish President Henry Rodriguez told displaced
residents gathered at the state Capitol. Parish Councilman Craig
Taffaro said no one should expect to live in the parish again before
next summer; before Katrina, its population was 66,000.

FEMA already expects to be providing temporary housing for some 200,000
hurricane victims for up to five years, most of them in Louisiana. It
plans to use trailer homes to create "temporary cities," some with
populations up to 25,000, said Brad Fair, head of the FEMA housing
effort.

"This may not be quite on the scale of building the pyramids, but it's
close," Fair said. He had no cost estimates.

In New Orleans, a contractor was back at one of the previously repaired
levees after water was found to be seeping through. Brig. Gen. Doug
Pritt of the Oregon National Guard described it as a minor leak.

Insurance experts have doubled to at least $40 billion their estimate
of insured losses caused by Katrina. Risk Management Solutions Inc. of
Newark, Calif., put the total economic damage at more than $125
billion.

Lawmakers in Washington proposed some tax changes Monday to help the
victims, such as letting them tap retirement accounts without penalty
and encouraging donations of cash, food and school books.

Former New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial called for a compensation fund for
the hurricane victims similar to the fund created for victims of the
terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The death toll has also been rising as more bodies are recovered across
the region.

At least 40 bodies were found Sunday at the 317-bed Memorial Medical
Center, but the exact number was unclear. Bob Johannesen, a spokesman
for the state Department of Health and Hospitals, said 45 patients had
been found; hospital assistant administrator David Goodson said there
were 44, plus three on the grounds.

Also unclear was exactly how the patients died.

Steven Campanini, a spokesman for the hospital's owner, Tenet
Healthcare Corp., said some of the patients were dead before the storm
arrived, and none of the deaths resulted from lack of food, water or
electricity to power medical equipment. He said many were seriously
ill.

Goodson said patients died while waiting to be evacuated over the four
days after the hurricane hit, as temperatures inside the hospital
reached 106 degrees. "I would suggest that that had a lot to do with"
the deaths, he said of the heat.

Family members and nurses were "literally standing over the patients,
fanning them," he said.

Bush, in his third visit to New Orleans since the storm, made his first
foray to the streets Monday, touring the city for 45 minutes. He
disputed suggestions that the government responded sluggishly because
the victims were mostly poor and black.

"The storm didn't discriminate and neither will the recovery effort,"
the president said. "When those Coast Guard choppers, many of whom were
first on the scene, were pulling people off roofs, they didn't check
the color of a person's skin."

According to the White House, Bush's former FEMA director Mike Brown
wasn't asked to resign. Brown said he decided to step down "in the best
interest of the agency and best interest of the president." He was
quickly replaced by R. David Paulison, a top agency official with
firefighting experience. Brown had been vilified for the slow federal
response to the hurricane, already considered the nation's costliest
ever.

In New Orleans' central business district - which includes oil and gas
companies, hotels, restaurants, banks and brokerages - business owners
were issued passes Monday to return to parts of the city to retrieve
vital records and equipment.

Terry Cockerham, who owns a window installation businesses, said he was
working out of his house because his business was destroyed by looters
and flooding.

"This is about the most work I've ever had," he said. "We'll work seven
days a week until we get this job finished. I don't want to get rich. I
just want to get everything back right."

New Orleans Metropolitan Convention & Visitors Bureau president J.
Stephen Perry said Katrina cost the city about 100 to 200 major
conventions. But he expected the tourism industry to be among the first
to bounce back, since the French Quarter and many hotels suffered
little damage.

"The really positive thing long-term is, the core of our infrastructure
of the $5 billion to $8 billion tourism industry remained intact,"
Perry said. "As odd as it may sound right now, we are optimistic that
this recovery is not only going to happen, its going to happen well and
we're going to have a great city going again."

---
Stananger
2005-09-14 03:41:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@ixsi.com
"Racism" is the cause of the sluggish response to help New Orleans
IXSI Network
Special report from New Orleans
Sep 02 2005
by North American reporter
Katrina has exposed the ugly underbelly of the USA for the world to
see. The unimaginable suffering of the Black population in New Orleans
and elsewhere in the "Apartheid South" due to the hurricane is
primarily due to the deeply ingrained racism that exists throughout
America
but especially in the "Old South" against the former "slaves". New
Orleans is 70% Black and most earn less than one half what Whites do.
The foot dragging to send in food, water and medicine to help the
dying, mostly Blacks, trapped at the Astrodome is due to the deep
animosity, now hidden, of Whites towards Blacks.
The examples of racism against New Orleans during their hour of need
are many. The first is the fact that the Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) and other White run federal agencies knew of the
impending catastrophe but chose to ignore it. There were already
numerous reports that New Orleans was in imminent danger of a major
catastrophe because the levy system that holds back the sea needed
upgrading. Instead, federal funds designated to fix the dikes were cut.
"Who cares about those poor niggers and drag queens in the Big Easy,
let it sink into the sea!" is what the Black mayors of New Orleans
heard consistently over the years. Another example is what is being
heard on radio in the Los Angeles area. Bill Handel, and extremely
hateful and obnoxious Jewish talk jock, said of the Blacks breaking
into food stores, "The cops should just shoot those animals in the
head". The same was heard from the anti-Mexican bigot Doug McIntyre on
another LA based radio station.
There is no doubt that there could have been a more rapid and efficient
response if there would have been the "will" to do so. No one cared,
not Bush nor most other responsible government agents until the
embarrassing photographs of the horrific situation were being
transmitted across the world. After much, of what only amounted to,
"lip service" by government officials, George Bush put on a show today
for the press giving the impression that he would fly to New Orleans to
"save the day". "The cavalry is here to save New Orleans" he said.
What a sham!
What happened to all the USA Chinook helicopters? What happened to the
Louisiana National Guard? What happened to the US Army's ability to
deploy emergency hospitals in a matter of hours? Perhaps they are busy
reconstructing Iraq. What a shame! We wonder what Black soldiers in
Iraq from Louisiana and Mississippi think when viewing the pictures of
old Black women and Black children dead on the concrete inside and in
the parking lot of the Astrodome. They died of hunger and thirst and
because of the lack of essential medications. Supplies that were denied
to the Black refugees simply because no one cared.
The same thing may happen to the large Mexican-American population in
the southwest if a similar catastrophe should occur here. If a major
earthquake or terrorist attack should befall Los Angeles, San Antonio,
San Diego or San Francisco, would the White run government emergency
agencies do to us what they did to the Blacks in New Orleans? Would
they choose to apply resources to save the predominate White areas and
leave us to die? The time to plan and prepare is now!
Heres an article I know you'll like.
Oh, by the way, this congress man is "black"!!



Amid Katrina Chaos, Congressman Used National Guard to Visit Home
Two Heavy Trucks, Helicopter Were Involved in Lawmaker's Trip at Height of
Crisis
By JAKE TAPPER

Sep. 13, 2005 - Amid the chaos and confusion that engulfed New Orleans after
Hurricane Katrina struck, a local congressman used National Guard troops to
check on his property and rescue his personal belongings -- even while New
Orleans residents were trying to get rescued from rooftops, ABC News has
learned.

On Friday, Sept. 2 -- five days after Katrina hit the Gulf Coast -- Rep.
William Jefferson, D-La., who represents New Orleans and is a senior member
of the powerful Ways and Means Committee, was allowed through the military
blockades set up around the city to reach the Superdome, where thousands of
evacuees had been taken.

Military sources tells ABC News that Jefferson, an eight-term Democratic
congressman, asked the National Guard that night to take him on a tour of
the flooded portions of his congressional district. A 5-ton military truck
and a half dozen military police were dispatched.

Lt. Col. Pete Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard tells ABC News that
during the tour, Jefferson asked that the truck take him to his home on
Marengo Street, in the affluent uptown neighborhood in his congressional
district. According to Schneider, this was not part of Jefferson's initial
request.

Jefferson defended the expedition, saying he set out to see how residents
were coping at the Superdome and in his neighborhood. He also insisted that
he did not ask the National Guard to transport him.

"I did not seek the use of military assets to help me get around my city,"
Jefferson told ABC News. "There was shooting going on. There was sniping
going on. They thought I should be escorted by some military guards, both
to the convention center the Superdome and uptown."

The water reached to the third step of Jefferson's house, a military source
familiar with the incident told ABC News, and the vehicle pulled up onto
Jefferson's front lawn so he wouldn't have to walk in the water. Jefferson
went into the house alone, the source says, while the soldiers waited on
the porch for about an hour.

Finally, according to the source, Jefferson emerged with a laptop computer,
three suitcases, and a box about the size of a small refrigerator, which
the enlisted men loaded up into the truck.

Two weeks later, the vehicle's tire tracks were still visible on the lawn.

"I don't think there is any explanation for an elected official using
resources for their own personal use, when those resources should be doing
search and rescue or they should be helping with law enforcement in the
city," said Jerry Hauer, a homeland security expert and ABC News
consultant.

Jefferson said the trip was entirely appropriate. It took only a few minutes
to retrieve his belongings, he said, and the truck stayed at his house for
an hour in part to assist neighbors.

"This wasn't about me going to my house. It was about me going to my
district," he said.

Two Heavy Trucks and Helicopter Involved

The Louisiana National Guard tells ABC News the truck became stuck as it
waited for Jefferson to retrieve his belongings.

The soldiers signaled to helicopters in the air for aid. Military sources
say a Coast Guard helicopter pilot saw the signal and flew to Jefferson's
home. The chopper was already carrying four rescued New Orleans residents
at the time.

A rescue diver descended from the helicopter, but the congressman decided
against going up in the helicopter, sources say. The pilot sent the diver
down again, but Jefferson again declined to go up the helicopter.

After spending approximately 45 minutes with Jefferson, the helicopter went
on to rescue three additional New Orleans residents before it ran low on
fuel and was forced to end its mission.

"Forty-five minutes can be an eternity to somebody that is drowning, to
somebody that is sitting in a roof, and it needs to be used its primary
purpose during an emergency," said Hauer.

Coast Guard Commander Brendan McPherson told ABC News, "We did have an
aircraft that responded to a signal of distress where the congressman was
located. The congressman did decline rescue at the time so the helicopter
picked up three other people.

"I can't comment on why the congressman decided not to go in the aircraft,"
McPherson said. "Did it take a little more time to send the rescue swimmer
back a second time? Yes ? You'd have to ask the congressman if it was a
waste of time or not."

The Louisiana National Guard then sent a second 5-ton truck to rescue the
first truck, and Jefferson and his personal items were returned to the
Superdome.

Schneider said he could not comment on whether the excursion was
appropriate. "We're in no position to comment on an order given to a
soldier. You're not going to get a statement from the Louisiana National
Guard saying whether it was right or wrong. That was the mission we were
assigned."

Jefferson insisted the expedition did not distract from rescue efforts.

"They actually picked up a lot of people while we were there," he said. "The
young soldier said, 'It's a good thing we came up here because a lot of
people would not have been rescued had we not been in the neighborhood.'"

Jefferson's Homes Searched in Unrelated Investigation

In an unrelated matter, authorities have recently searched Jefferson's
property as part of a federal investigation into the finances of a
high-tech firm. Last month FBI officials raided Jefferson's house as well
as his home in Washington, D.C., his car and his accountant's house.

Jefferson has not commented on that matter, except to say he is cooperating
with the investigation. But he has emerged as a major voice in the
post-Katrina political debate.

"The levee system that had protected New Orleans for hundreds of years had
failed," he said on the House floor on Sept. 7. "Our city was inundated, 80
percent of it, with deadly water. Thousands of lives were lost, many
drowned, trapped in their homes. Others were lost trying to escape the
fury."

Last week, Jefferson set up a special trust fund for contributions to his
legal defense in light of the FBI investigation. A senior federal law
enforcement source tells ABC News that investigators are interested in
learning if Jefferson moved any materials relevant to the investigation.
Jefferson says he did not.

ABC News' Sarah H. Rosenberg, Chris Isham and Ted Gerstein contributed to
this report.

Copyright © 2005 ABC News Internet Ventures
Yak Rider
2005-09-15 23:23:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@ixsi.com
"Racism" is the cause of the sluggish response to help New Orleans
....The same thing may happen to the large Mexican-American population in
the southwest if a similar catastrophe should occur here. If a major
earthquake or terrorist attack should befall Los Angeles, San Antonio,
San Diego or San Francisco, would the White run government emergency
agencies do to us what they did to the Blacks in New Orleans? Would
they choose to apply resources to save the predominate White areas and
leave us to die? The time to plan and prepare is now!
We can only hope so. In fact, Congress just passed and the administration
signed off on a new wall along the border down by San Diego. There telling
everybody it's there to keep the fucking wetbacks out, but really, it's there to
keep 'em in.

When the going gets tough we're going to need all the cheap, unskilled,
uneducated labor we can get for the most dangerous work. 20,000,000 wetback
Mexicans will make a good start.

Yak
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