Post by tortrixPost by usual suspectExactly how does hunting oppose freedom and choice for humans?
Because it is MY LEGAL choice to fight and lobby and spend my money on
passing whatever laws I WANT!
Evading the question. If I go hunting, that does not stop you from
fighting, lobbying, or spending money. You still enjoy those rights, as
desperate, futile (I hope), and totalitarian as they are. Hunters also
enjoy the right to engage in the same efforts to keep it legal.
Post by tortrixObviously, you do not even CONSIDER the animals' choice.
Animals do not have choices, except as they relate to food, territory,
and reproduction.
Post by tortrixPost by usual suspectPost by exploratoryThey tell animal rights workers,
"AR workers" are activists, not workers. They create nothing.
Hunters are not workers!
Most hunters *do* have jobs outside of hunting. Hunting provides them
nourishment, relaxation, and an appreciation of nature.
Post by tortrixThey contribute nothing!
License fees from hunters and anglers go to support park systems and
conservation programs. In some states, hunting and fishing licenses
constitute the sole revenue stream for conservation and park systems
(and I recall some legislatures have diverted this rich funding to other
outlays like education and state employee payraises).
Post by tortrixThey kill and maim animals,
Killing is part of the program. You, too, are responsible for dead
animals in the production of your food even if you don't *eat* animals.
Grains and beans, in particular, are very CD intensive. So is cotton. Do
you wear clothing?
Post by tortrixcasually breaking the law on type and number of animals
killed,
Hyperbole. There are a few who bend the laws, poach, etc. Most hunters,
however, follow the laws and actively report such violators.
Post by tortrixpurely for entertainment purposes!
Try for other purposes, like food and recreation.
Post by tortrixPost by usual suspectcontrol officers. If you meant to say wildlife or game officers, you
should have said that.
You are so obsessed with labels.
I'm not into the label game, I was correcting a faulty sentiment the OP
expressed. Don't blame me for his ignorance.
Post by tortrixWildlife and game officers
do their part saving wild or lost domestic animals, euthanizing rabid
animals when there is no other choice, protecting both human and
animal health, etc.
Here in Texas, wildlife officials contact animal control officers when
domestic animals are involved; the exception is when domesticated
canines are involved in wildlife threats, like when a pack of
neighborhood dogs wander onto an adjacent ranch and begin herding and
harming wildlife (then they're often shot).
Post by tortrixAnimal rights workers save animals from being killed, too,
No, they posture for fundraising and engage in disinformation aimed at
swaying legislators.
Post by tortrixby bringing the facts to the attention of the public and lawmakers
about factory farming, animal testing, rodeos and bullfights, hunting,
trapping, and by passing legislation if it does not exist already.
What you're ignoring is that animal welfare statutes already exist. In
many cases, the abuses you mention are illegal under existing law.
Abuses are also prosecuted. The system works. PETA aren't interested in
enforcement, they want to change the paradigms in a radical fashion.
Post by tortrixPost by usual suspectHikers and campers are advised by game and park officers to watch where
they hike and camp during hunting season. Indeed, some parks are closed
to hiking and camping during hunting season unless the hikers/campers
also hold valid hunting licenses. Safety reasons, you know.
That proves it! That sure sounds like NO CHOICE for the non-hunters
to me! You have the park SPECIALLY CLOSED for YOUR recreational
purposes?!
For a month out of the year, and usually the wettest and coldest one?
Yeah, that really does deprive you, doesn't it.
Post by tortrixYou hunters would raise hell if parks were closed for an ANIMAL RIGHTS
day and for ANIMAL RIGHTS groups ONLY to use!
Actually, parks are ALL closed to hunting for most of the year. I don't
hear hunters making complaints about it as you suggest, either. Retard.
Post by tortrixYou hunters force animals onto private lands!
Nature is in constant flux. Fences don't mean anything to animals. Give
them rights, but they'll never respect yours.
Post by tortrixJust the other day,
wild turkeys were coming onto my property
They probably felt right at home with you.
Post by tortrixbecause HUNTERS were scaring them onto my property.
Again, they do not respect borders and they range for a variety of
reasons. If you're that close to their habitat, you should be used to it
by now.
Post by tortrixA friend of my family in a totally different
part of the country recently said the same
thing: deer were being scared onto her property by hunters.
Not sure whom that's supposed to impress. Deer also range. Most animals
do. If your family friend (assuming you're not making shit up as you go
along) lives so close to deer habitat, she should be used to their
presence. We have more deer in the city limits of Austin than some
states have. They're not here because of hunting pressures, rather the
lack of it.
Post by tortrixOther members of my family have been adversely affected this legalized
terror of hunters.
Hyperbole and beside the point. If you live so close to territory with
deer and turkeys, you should expect contact with them at some point in
time. Stop whining or move into the city.
Post by tortrixWE don't have a choice when you force animals onto OUR property!
Again, the range of animals isn't entirely based on hunting. Their
search for food, mating, and extension of territory is also to blame.
That doesn't excuse you from blaming others. If you dilike wildlife so
much, move to a central neighborhood in a large city. Perhaps you'll
enjoy crack houses and prostitution more than nature. Something tells me
you're new to the country life.
Post by tortrixJust because you get away with it because it might be legal STILL
does NOT mean you are giving me a CHOICE!
You have choices. You choose to live near areas with wildlife, city
slicker. Get used to the animals or move back to the city.
Post by tortrixPost by usual suspectThe First Amendment guarantees the right of citizens to address
government and its officials. So fuck off if you wish to stop hunters
from taking part in the democratic process, asshole.
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the Constitution or First Amendment
which guarantees the right to hunt!
Strawman. The issue to address is the democratic process, nitwit. State
laws allow hunting. No law allows you to harass a hunter or vandalize
his truck.
Post by tortrixHUNTING IS NOT FREE SPEECH!! IT IS A PHYSICAL ACT!!
Strawman, you idiot. See above.
Post by tortrixPost by usual suspectWhy should hunters be banned from exercising fundamental human -- not
just constitutional -- rights? You gutless, totalitarian punk.
And you are a FUCKING no-good scum anti-American coward,
who won't stand up to un-American acts of terrorism like hunting.
I'm not the one trying to stop others from enjoying their rights and
freedoms. Hunting is as American as it gets. Totalitarianism of your
strain isn't. Try North Korea, dipshit.
Post by tortrixPost by usual suspectPost by exploratoryAnd hunters will bully them until they get what they want.
One's "bullying" is another's "lobbying." Anti-hunt activists engage in
the same, but are more likely to engage in acts of terrorism and
sabotage.
WHAT a load of SHIT! There is NO such thing as animal rights
"terrorism".
http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/arterror.htm
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/6902512.htm
http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/editorials/story.asp?id=6F8B7308-1AD4-42D7-9B2B-281675288580
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/story.jsp?story=453152
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/custom/fringe/sfl-103animallover,0,5943469.story?coll=sfla-news-fringe
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/6980470.htm
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7436598%255E1702,00.html
http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=41640
BTW, what do *you* call it when someone firebombs a corporation?
Post by tortrixThat is just recent historical revisionism hunters and other anti-AR
fanatics have used to join on the anti-terrorism bandwagon.
No, it precedes 9/11/2001 by a few years.
Post by tortrixEven Iraq's Saddam Hussein had far more reason to call the acts of
Americans
bombing his country and killing Iraqi citizens "terrorism"
than you hunters and pro-animal-torture people have of calling ANY
pro-animal person a "terrorist".
Saddam is a non sequitur. Read the links above. Hunters are not calling
PETA supporters in middle of the night and threatening them. Hunters
aren't blowing up buildings in the name of their political points of
view. Hunters aren't the ones vandalizing law-abiding restaurants and
stores. It's the ARAs who are engaged in lawlessness.
Post by tortrixTerrorism means deliberately hurting INNOCENT people.
Do you mean like bombing Chiron's offices? Calling up employees in
middle of the night and threatening them and their children? Leafletting
schools with "wanted posters" where employees' children attend? How
about flooding a store and adjacent businesses? Damaging a chef's car
and house? Sending the chef hidden videos of him and his family spending
time together at home along with a note warning him that he's being watched?
I guess you think all that's okay. Tell me one instance of hunters
engaging in such behavior.
Post by tortrixHunters, like Al-Qaeda, are guilty of killing and torturing the
innocent for fanatical religious and entertainment reasons.
Hyperbole.
Post by tortrixYou ought to be arrested for treason.
If you really think so, you should contact the appropriate authorities
and let them in on it. You don't know what treason is, you worthless
shitbag.
Post by tortrixYou are just another anti-American traitor,
My patriotism is not an issue, and it's certainly not how you express it.
I know you wouldn't say that in person. So do you, punk.
Post by tortrixto stand up against torture and brutality
I take stands you would envy.
Post by tortrixbecause it might "offend" or "hurt" the hunters.
You're a pussy. Check my posts. I'm not afraid to ruffle feathers.
Post by tortrixYou are the type
who would sympathize with the Nazis, claiming using military force
against the Nazis was wrong in WWII, because it would be an act
of violence and terrorism against the Nazis.
Hyperbole and disgustingly false. My family shed a lot of blood in WWII
to defeat the Germans *and* Japanese. Go fuck yourself, asshole.
Post by tortrixIt is the same old shit: you claim to be "non-violent"
I do not. I'm not a pacifist.
Post by tortrixand preach to others about non-violence
I do not.
Post by tortrixlike you mean it in general, but
you demand non-violence be applied only for YOU -- not anyone else.
Like everything else you've written, you don't know what you're saying.
Post by tortrixPost by usual suspectIt's not hunters who go out in the days before hunting season
and create a lot of racket to stir up the deer.
SO WHAT?? Animal rights activists HAVE EVERY LEGAL AND MORAL
RIGHT to go onto public lands and stir up deer or rabbit!
You do not have a right to do that on PRIVATE lands, which is where
nearly all hunting in my state is done. As for rights, most states have
public nuisance and disturbance laws. You don't have a right to go out
in a park and make noise, defecate and urinate in public areas, or
commit vandalism.
Post by tortrixWe do not OWE hunters any animals!
You should treat others as you wish to be treated.
Post by tortrixThis statement PROVES you hunters and hunter supporters OPPOSE
CHOICE -- the choice of animal rights activists do what THEY want
with wildlife!
No, but your statement proves you are ignorant about the issues and do
not comprehend what you read.
Post by tortrixPost by usual suspectIt's also the ARAs who seek to deny hunters the right to hunt and deny
landowners the right to lease land for hunting.
GOOD!! And when we do get those laws passed, it is you terrorist
hunters who break the law!
You won't pass any such laws.
Post by tortrixPost by usual suspectIn all the hearings I've
attended, it's been the ARAs who've shouted down pro-hunt advocates and
game officials -- never the other way around.
BULLSHIT! What a fucking liar you are. The complete OPPOSITE is true.
You called me a liar, so prove it. I've attended numerous meetings of
the TPWD Commission as well as both Texas house and senate hearings
pertaining to wildlife legislation. I have NEVER heard hunters shout
down others. Activists, though, routinely shout down speakers,
commissioners, experts, senators, representatives, and even each other.
Post by tortrixPost by usual suspectPerhaps you should try
attending such hearings and judge yourself rather than getting your
talking points from agenda-driven liars.
I have. And every one of them is full of pro-hunting fanatic
terrorists.
They have a right to attend such meetings, as do activists. Hunters,
though, are far more civil.
Post by tortrixAnd in this world of MAJOR problems like disease, poverty, and
injustice,
nobody is going to take you and your hunter buddies'
frivilous trivial little complaints about some imaginany offenses
seriously.
The FBI sure are taking you and your cronies seriously. Bombings, animal
releases, and threats are neither imaginary nor trivial. You should stop
before somebody gets hurt.