Metropolis Director's Cut Found

With all the Superman sequences back in!

Kip W

mike weber

2008-07-03 23:35:37 UTC

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:39:04 +0100, "Marcus L. Rowland"

Just read that.

Looks like about five minutes is still missing, but adding 25 is still
a Major Accomplishment.

Keith F. Lynch

2008-07-03 23:57:32 UTC

It looks like major restoration and digital remastering will be
needed, but hopefully we may eventually see it as Lang originally
intended.

I'll wait for the version with the director's commentary track.

--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Kip Williams

2008-07-04 00:38:27 UTC

It looks like major restoration and digital remastering will be
needed, but hopefully we may eventually see it as Lang originally
intended.

I'll wait for the version with the director's commentary track.

"Koepfchen. KOEPFCHEN!"

Kip W

Sean O'Hara

2008-07-04 02:05:50 UTC

In the Year of the Earth Rat, the Great and Powerful Keith F. Lynch

It looks like major restoration and digital remastering will be
needed, but hopefully we may eventually see it as Lang originally
intended.

I'll wait for the version with the director's commentary track.

That's not out of the question. Peter Bogdanovich conducted
extensive interviews with Lang in the '60s, which have been used in
commentaries for "Fury" and "Clash by Night."

--
Sean O'Hara <http://diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com>
Spike: Uh, listen Jet. You said bell peppers and beef. There's no
beef in here. So you wouldn't really call it bell peppers and beef,
now would you?
Jet: Yes, I would.
Spike: Well, it's not.
-Cowboy Bebop

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-03 23:45:23 UTC

Great! I want the DVD.

(I suppose that no amount of restoration or remastering will
keep the hero from looking like such a dweeb, but that's life.)

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

Kip Williams

2008-07-04 00:36:42 UTC

Great! I want the DVD.
(I suppose that no amount of restoration or remastering will
keep the hero from looking like such a dweeb, but that's life.)

Shhhhhh! Or they'll make him look like Cary Grant's zombie!

Kip W

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-04 01:40:49 UTC

Great! I want the DVD.
(I suppose that no amount of restoration or remastering will
keep the hero from looking like such a dweeb, but that's life.)

Shhhhhh! Or they'll make him look like Cary Grant's zombie!

That would be an improvement.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

Kip Williams

2008-07-04 02:45:50 UTC

Great! I want the DVD.
(I suppose that no amount of restoration or remastering will
keep the hero from looking like such a dweeb, but that's life.)

Shhhhhh! Or they'll make him look like Cary Grant's zombie!

That would be an improvement.

I take it you are unfamiliar with the ghastly way dead actors' images
have been manipulated in recent years? Talk about your uncanny valley.

Kip W

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-04 03:10:43 UTC

Great! I want the DVD.
(I suppose that no amount of restoration or remastering will
keep the hero from looking like such a dweeb, but that's life.)

Shhhhhh! Or they'll make him look like Cary Grant's zombie!

That would be an improvement.

I take it you are unfamiliar with the ghastly way dead actors' images
have been manipulated in recent years? Talk about your uncanny valley.

Well, yes. I am unfamiliar with it. Care to provide some links?

Though I have read Willis's _Remake_, which seems to be about the same
thing.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

Kip Williams

2008-07-04 03:33:07 UTC

Great! I want the DVD.
(I suppose that no amount of restoration or remastering will
keep the hero from looking like such a dweeb, but that's life.)

Shhhhhh! Or they'll make him look like Cary Grant's zombie!

That would be an improvement.

I take it you are unfamiliar with the ghastly way dead actors' images
have been manipulated in recent years? Talk about your uncanny valley.

Well, yes. I am unfamiliar with it. Care to provide some links?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fiipc.utu.fi%2Freconsidered%2FBode.pdf&ei=P5dtSKvaLouqetuB4eUC&usg=AFQjCNGT7F2V5e8DS0rOf1JADXla4E3SWA&sig2=irzUM7Mn3KJ8NoCf6B8gPQ
A discussion (pdf). Mostly philosophical.

Here we go. The reanimated corpse of Gene Kelly. Dance, dead man, dance!
Ha ha ha!

Here's the zombie Orville Redenbacher. Death will not release you from
selling the product:

That's all the links I can seem to hunt down just now. I had been
thinking the first time I saw computer magic used to make the dead rise
up and shill was Cary Grant for Coke. I know they had Fred Astaire
dancing with the sponsor's vacuum cleaner. There have been outcries, but
every few years, somebody else has the same bright idea, and off we go
again.

I don't know if it would be less creepy if the process didn't look
awful, or more creepy. I could see some possible utility if an actor
died with five minutes of shooting left to go in a movie or something,
but this is just the union of "greed" and "ghastliness."

Kip W

David G. Bell

2008-07-04 12:01:29 UTC

On Thursday, in article

Post by Kip Williams
I don't know if it would be less creepy if the process didn't look
awful, or more creepy. I could see some possible utility if an actor
died with five minutes of shooting left to go in a movie or something,
but this is just the union of "greed" and "ghastliness."

They had to do something like that for "Gladiator", but I think it was a
double, shot from behind, and a very good piece of dubbing.

CGI is going to have o get much easier and cheaper to beat that sort of
approach to the problem.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

On the horizon, a carrier task force of the Salvation Navy was
turning into the wind, preparing to launch Zeppelins.

Kip Williams

2008-07-04 14:43:10 UTC

Post by David G. Bell
On Thursday, in article

They had to do something like that for "Gladiator", but I think it was a
double, shot from behind, and a very good piece of dubbing.
CGI is going to have o get much easier and cheaper to beat that sort of
approach to the problem.

The pdf I linked to in response to Dorothy's query starts off by
mentioning Jean Harlow's last movie being finished with a voice double,
somebody who stood with their back to the camera*, and another -- now
I'm forgetting what the third one did.

I was reminded a moment ago of a show about special effects, and how one
of the Terminator movies shot a scene where a security guard is
confronted by his exact double. They used twins.

*Nick at Nite, who used to have "The Patty Duke Show," in which Ms. Duke
plays identical cousins, once had a tribute to the unnamed actress who
was always seen in two-shots, who they called "Patty Duke's Back." I'm
tempted to call every instance of such with the same name, but it
requires three or four lines of explanation.

Kip W

mike weber

2008-07-04 21:47:45 UTC

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:43:10 -0400, Kip Williams

Post by Kip Williams
I was reminded a moment ago of a show about special effects, and how one
of the Terminator movies shot a scene where a security guard is
confronted by his exact double. They used twins

And Linda Hunter's real-life twin played either Sarah or the morphing
Terminator in some scenes. I was watching Terminator 2 at the 12:01
AM showing and someone behind me said "That guy's the next one to get
it." And the woman with him said "How do you know?" and he said "He's
got a twin brother."

At which point i recognised the twins, who had appeared togwether in
Gremlins 2.

And wossname who played Xander on Buffy has a twin brother, who worked
as his stand-in [1] on the series, and played Xander's magical clone
in one episode.

[1] Which is not a stunt double, as some misuse the term "stand-in",
but someone the same general size and colouring who can be used to set
up lighting and camera angles while the star does Star Things.

David Goldfarb

2008-07-05 00:52:19 UTC

Post by mike weber
And wossname who played Xander on Buffy

Nicholas Brendon.

has a twin brother, who worked

Post by mike weber
as his stand-in [1] on the series, and played Xander's magical clone
in one episode.
[1] Which is not a stunt double, as some misuse the term "stand-in",
but someone the same general size and colouring who can be used to set
up lighting and camera angles while the star does Star Things.

*I* knew that, but then my sister has worked as a stand-in -- most notably
on the series _Alias_, and on the Lemony Snicket movie.

--
David Goldfarb | "Speak softly, drive a Sherman tank
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | Laugh hard, it's a long way to the bank."
***@csua.berkeley.edu | -- TMBG

Paul Dormer

2008-07-14 10:44:00 UTC

Post by mike weber
[1] Which is not a stunt double, as some misuse the term "stand-in",
but someone the same general size and colouring who can be used to set
up lighting and camera angles while the star does Star Things.

I remember seeing an interview with Orson Welles in which he reminisced
about the filming of The Stranger. One of his actors complained to him
that Welles should make his mind up whether to use him or "that other guy"
for the role. He'd not made many films, and wasn't familiar with the
idea of a stand-in.

Kip Williams

2008-07-05 14:18:26 UTC

Post by David G. Bell
On Thursday, in article

Post by Kip Williams
I don't know if it would be less creepy if the process didn't look
awful, or more creepy. I could see some possible utility if an actor
died with five minutes of shooting left to go in a movie or
something, but this is just the union of "greed" and "ghastliness."

They had to do something like that for "Gladiator", but I think it was
a double, shot from behind, and a very good piece of dubbing.
CGI is going to have o get much easier and cheaper to beat that sort
of approach to the problem.

Voice double, body double, and a third actress who covered her face a
lot. I re-read the article and see that it also tells where to see an
awful lot of detail on the resurrection of Marlon Brando for SUPERMAN
RETURNS.

Kip W

mike weber

2008-07-05 21:52:44 UTC

On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:18:26 -0400, Kip Williams

Post by Kip Williams
Voice double, body double, and a third actress who covered her face a
lot. I re-read the article and see that it also tells where to see an
awful lot of detail on the resurrection of Marlon Brando for SUPERMAN
RETURNS.

And, of course, there's "Plan 9 from Outer Space"

Kip Williams

2008-07-06 00:29:49 UTC

Post by mike weber
On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:18:26 -0400, Kip Williams

And, of course, there's "Plan 9 from Outer Space"

I kept thinking of GIANT. I like your example lots better.

Kip W

mike weber

2008-07-06 03:43:49 UTC

On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:29:49 -0400, Kip Williams

Post by mike weber
On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:18:26 -0400, Kip Williams

And, of course, there's "Plan 9 from Outer Space"

I kept thinking of GIANT. I like your example lots better.

Did they have to finish that with a body double?

Kip Williams

2008-07-06 03:58:17 UTC

Post by mike weber
On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:29:49 -0400, Kip Williams

Post by mike weber
On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:18:26 -0400, Kip Williams

And, of course, there's "Plan 9 from Outer Space"

I kept thinking of GIANT. I like your example lots better.

Did they have to finish that with a body double?

I believe Dean's friend Nick Adams finished the part for him, at a distance.

Kip W

mike weber

2008-07-06 08:19:10 UTC

On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:58:17 -0400, Kip Williams

Post by mike weber
On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:29:49 -0400, Kip Williams

Post by Kip Williams
I kept thinking of GIANT. I like your example lots better.

Did they have to finish that with a body double?

I believe Dean's friend Nick Adams finished the part for him, at a distance.

Remembering "The Rebel", i guess Adams would have been okay for that.
Better than the producer's wife's chiropractor, or whoever it was in
"Plan 9", anyway.

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-06 13:12:00 UTC

Post by mike weber
Remembering "The Rebel", i guess Adams would have been okay for that.
Better than the producer's wife's chiropractor, or whoever it was in
"Plan 9", anyway.

I checked IMDB: you were close. It was Ed Wood's (director and
writer) wife's chiropractor. IMDB doesn't *list* a producer, but
says the film was financed by a Baptist church ... and that
Lugosi's part had been shot as it were on spec, and he died
before they had a script.

I've never seen the thing, and I think I'll leave it that way.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

Kip Williams

2008-07-06 13:25:01 UTC

Post by mike weber
Remembering "The Rebel", i guess Adams would have been okay for that.
Better than the producer's wife's chiropractor, or whoever it was in
"Plan 9", anyway.

I checked IMDB: you were close. It was Ed Wood's (director and
writer) wife's chiropractor. IMDB doesn't *list* a producer, but
says the film was financed by a Baptist church ... and that
Lugosi's part had been shot as it were on spec, and he died
before they had a script.
I've never seen the thing, and I think I'll leave it that way.

It kept pulling me back into the room.

Kip W

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-06 14:13:18 UTC

Post by mike weber
Remembering "The Rebel", i guess Adams would have been okay for that.
Better than the producer's wife's chiropractor, or whoever it was in
"Plan 9", anyway.

I checked IMDB: you were close. It was Ed Wood's (director and
writer) wife's chiropractor. IMDB doesn't *list* a producer, but
says the film was financed by a Baptist church ... and that
Lugosi's part had been shot as it were on spec, and he died
before they had a script.
I've never seen the thing, and I think I'll leave it that way.

It kept pulling me back into the room.

It's the sort of _Eye of Argon_ of film, I guess. But I can
enjoy _Eye_ and I'm not tempted by a lowest-of-low-budget vampire-
zombie-etcetera flick.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

Kip Williams

2008-07-06 15:04:32 UTC

Post by mike weber
Remembering "The Rebel", i guess Adams would have been okay for that.
Better than the producer's wife's chiropractor, or whoever it was in
"Plan 9", anyway.

I checked IMDB: you were close. It was Ed Wood's (director and
writer) wife's chiropractor. IMDB doesn't *list* a producer, but
says the film was financed by a Baptist church ... and that
Lugosi's part had been shot as it were on spec, and he died
before they had a script.
I've never seen the thing, and I think I'll leave it that way.

It kept pulling me back into the room.

It's the sort of _Eye of Argon_ of film, I guess. But I can
enjoy _Eye_ and I'm not tempted by a lowest-of-low-budget vampire-
zombie-etcetera flick.

It's hard to explain. I've seen movies that were bad, and felt no urge
to watch. This one is imaginatively, inventively bad. I kept leaving the
room, and I would turn around in the hall and go back.

No reason you should watch it, of course. If you do, wear an oven mitt
on whichever hand you're likely to smack yourself on the head with, or
face possible brain trauma.

Kip W

Keith F. Lynch

2008-07-06 17:54:31 UTC

No reason you should watch it, of course. If you do, wear an oven
mitt on whichever hand you're likely to smack yourself on the head
with, or face possible brain trauma.

"You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!"

--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Kip Williams

2008-07-06 19:15:50 UTC

No reason you should watch it, of course. If you do, wear an oven
mitt on whichever hand you're likely to smack yourself on the head
with, or face possible brain trauma.

"You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!"

"Because you're stupid! Stupid! Your stupid minds--"

Kip W
Can you prove it did not happen?

mike weber

2008-07-06 17:40:44 UTC

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I've never seen the thing, and I think I'll leave it that way.

If you're over about twelve the first time you see it, you'll probably
want to scrub your mind with bleach after

I think i wasn't much more than twelve yet when i saw it on TV, and i
still noticed that that wasn't the same actor..

(No - i must have been older, since i was eleven in 1959, when it was
released. But i couldn't have been much older; it must have gotten
dumped out for local stations to buy pretty quickly.)

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-06 18:22:13 UTC

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I've never seen the thing, and I think I'll leave it that way.

If you're over about twelve the first time you see it, you'll probably
want to scrub your mind with bleach after
I think i wasn't much more than twelve yet when i saw it on TV, and i
still noticed that that wasn't the same actor..
(No - i must have been older, since i was eleven in 1959, when it was
released. But i couldn't have been much older; it must have gotten
dumped out for local stations to buy pretty quickly.)

I'm sixty-six. I'm REALLY not gonna see it, based on what you
have said.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

Keith F. Lynch

2008-07-06 18:38:07 UTC

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm sixty-six. I'm REALLY not gonna see it, based on what you
have said.

Too bad. It's part of our fannish cultural heritage.

I might even go so far as to say Plan 9 is to fans what NASCAR is
to mundanes.

--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-06 19:10:53 UTC

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm sixty-six. I'm REALLY not gonna see it, based on what you
have said.

Too bad. It's part of our fannish cultural heritage.
I might even go so far as to say Plan 9 is to fans what NASCAR is
to mundanes.

Awwwww, Keith, you know my methods by now. Popular culture has
never been my strong spot. Nor do I care to make it so.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

Kip Williams

2008-07-06 19:34:15 UTC

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm sixty-six. I'm REALLY not gonna see it, based on what you
have said.

Too bad. It's part of our fannish cultural heritage.
I might even go so far as to say Plan 9 is to fans what NASCAR is
to mundanes.

Hey, don't make me forbid further discussion of this topic!

Kip W

mike weber

2008-07-06 21:59:46 UTC

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm sixty-six. I'm REALLY not gonna see it, based on what you
have said.

Too bad. It's part of our fannish cultural heritage.
I might even go so far as to say Plan 9 is to fans what NASCAR is
to mundanes.

No, given the Medveds and their "Golden Turkey" nonsense, it's pretty
widely known.

"Flesh Gordon", maybe.

Or "Dark Star".

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-06 22:17:03 UTC

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm sixty-six. I'm REALLY not gonna see it, based on what you
have said.

Too bad. It's part of our fannish cultural heritage.
I might even go so far as to say Plan 9 is to fans what NASCAR is
to mundanes.

No, given the Medveds and their "Golden Turkey" nonsense, it's pretty
widely known.
"Flesh Gordon", maybe.

Now, THAT I have seen. In fact, I saw it in its first release.
The X-rated version (I didn't know where to look). I later saw
the R-rated version and observed that the naughty bits that had
been cut out had taken a lot of the plot with them. So you can't
win. But I used to have a full-sized copy of the beautiful
George Barr poster. I wonder what happened to it --- but three
moves equal one fire.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

mark

2008-07-07 01:39:37 UTC

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm sixty-six. I'm REALLY not gonna see it, based on what you
have said.

Too bad. It's part of our fannish cultural heritage.
I might even go so far as to say Plan 9 is to fans what NASCAR is
to mundanes.

No, given the Medveds and their "Golden Turkey" nonsense, it's pretty
widely known.
"Flesh Gordon", maybe.

Flesh Gordon - about a dozen years ago, I thought of it, and realized I
hadn't seen it in about 10 years (it was run at every con for years, it
seemed, at midnight), and bought a copy. The thing about it is that it's
*fun*, and the actors seem to be having fun with it, as well. It also
follows the original in most of the plot (minus swerves for nudity and
sex).

I saw the "sequel" they made in the very early nineties, and that sucked.
Mostly bathroom "humor", and not much nudity, and you don't see either of
the leads nude... And this time, no one looked like they were having fun.
There was no joy in it, just grind (double entendre intended) it out.

Tedious.

mark

Kip Williams

2008-07-07 01:53:28 UTC

Post by mark
I saw the "sequel" they made in the very early nineties, and that sucked.
Mostly bathroom "humor", and not much nudity, and you don't see either of
the leads nude... And this time, no one looked like they were having fun.
There was no joy in it, just grind (double entendre intended) it out.

A friend of mine got his start because of the FLESH GORDON sequel they
-didn't- make. He somehow was hired to do matte paintings for it. Peter
Ellenshaw apparently saw them, and he got hired by Disney. Then he
worked his way up, and now he's respectable.

Kip W

Karl Johanson

2008-07-08 00:46:31 UTC

Post by mike weber
"Flesh Gordon", maybe.

Now, THAT I have seen.

I first saw it at the first con I went to. V-Con 8, in 1980. That was before
I had my own VCR, so I spent a fair amount of time in the video room. I left
part way through to get some tickets to see "The Empire Strikes Back" that
evening.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
In fact, I saw it in its first release.
The X-rated version (I didn't know where to look).

I was 18 when I saw it first & remember spending a fair amount of time
looking at Suzanne Fields' breasts. I did manage to notice the plot as well
& even managed to memorize Emperor Wang's cheerleaders' song.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I later saw
the R-rated version and observed that the naughty bits that had
been cut out had taken a lot of the plot with them.

I've only seen one version, and it seemed Xish. I'd have dropped the lesbian
rape scene, if it was my choice.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
So you can't
win. But I used to have a full-sized copy of the beautiful
George Barr poster. I wonder what happened to it --- but three
moves equal one fire.

I have a Dark Star Poster somewhere in the house. I really should look about
for it.

Trivia time. What role did John Ritter play in Flesh Gordon?

Karl Johanson
"Good... There's Oxygen on this planet."
Dr. Flexi Jerkoff

Tim McDaniel

2008-07-08 15:41:18 UTC

Post by Karl Johanson
& even managed to memorize Emperor Wang's cheerleaders' song.

[*]

--
Tim McDaniel, ***@panix.com

Karl Johanson

2008-07-09 02:44:51 UTC

Post by Karl Johanson
& even managed to memorize Emperor Wang's cheerleaders' song.

[*]

W. A. N. G.
Emperor Wang is the one for me.
Without him, the planet Porno.
Would be ever so forlorno.

Karl Johanson

mark

2008-07-09 02:47:45 UTC

Post by Karl Johanson
& even managed to memorize Emperor Wang's cheerleaders' song.

[*]

Sorry, all I can think of is "Dick Cheney is dead", oops, sorry, the Borg's
not quite dead, I mean "Flesh Gordon is dead...."

mark

Michael Benveniste

2008-07-08 12:43:22 UTC

Post by mike weber
"Flesh Gordon", maybe.

Now, THAT I have seen. In fact, I saw it in its first release.
The X-rated version (I didn't know where to look).

The only time in my life I used a fake ID was to see that movie.
If you check out the name of the writer/director at IMDB, you'll
see why.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068595/

Tragically, that Michael Benveniste committed suicide in 1982.

--
Michael Benveniste -- ***@clearether.com
Legalize Updoc.

Nate Edel

2008-07-08 20:35:09 UTC

Post by mike weber
"Flesh Gordon", maybe.

I rented the X-rated version once by accident, as it was misfiled with the
pornography.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "I do have a cause, though. It is obscenity.
posting domain | I'm for it." - prologue to "Smut" by Tom Lehrer

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-09 00:24:04 UTC

Post by Nate Edel

Post by mike weber
"Flesh Gordon", maybe.

I rented the X-rated version once by accident, as it was misfiled with the
pornography.

Well, one can sort of understand that.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

mark

2008-07-09 03:08:06 UTC

Post by Nate Edel

Post by mike weber
"Flesh Gordon", maybe.

I rented the X-rated version once by accident, as it was misfiled with the
pornography.

Lovely choice of words.

Y'know, there was that time, esp. the first half of the seventies, when they
started doing x-rated stuff that was genuinely funny, and frequently
considerate of all parties. Think, for example of Deep Throat (whatever
happened, or didn't happen, to Linda Lovelace).

Come to think of it, that's what I like in Phil Foglio's XXXenophile:
everyone is generally having a good time, and enjoying themselves. It's
not "snicker, snicker, look at the sluts/studs".

mark

mike weber

2008-07-09 04:50:28 UTC

Post by mark
(whatever
happened, or didn't happen, to Linda Lovelace).

She divorced wossname, got out of the Industry, and signed her name to
a ghost-written book (the allegations on which might have even been
true) telling how she was forced into such a Life Of Shame by her Evil
Husband, who threatened to have her parents killed if she didn't do
it, or something like that.

(I paraphrase, and i may be being more sarcastic than she deserves.)

I think she has since died.

mark

2008-07-10 02:53:03 UTC

(whatever happened, or didn't happen, to Linda Lovelace).

She divorced wossname, got out of the Industry, and signed her name to
a ghost-written book (the allegations on which might have even been
true) telling how she was forced into such a Life Of Shame by her Evil
Husband, who threatened to have her parents killed if she didn't do
it, or something like that.
(I paraphrase, and i may be being more sarcastic than she deserves.)
I think she has since died.

That's what I was referring to - her story was only peripheral to the point
I was making.

mark

Paul Dormer

2008-07-14 10:44:00 UTC

Post by mike weber
I think she has since died.

Got quite a large obituary in The Independent at the time.

mark

2008-07-07 01:32:55 UTC

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I'm sixty-six. I'm REALLY not gonna see it, based on what you
have said.

Too bad. It's part of our fannish cultural heritage.
I might even go so far as to say Plan 9 is to fans what NASCAR is
to mundanes.

Far worse. I read, somewhere, that Joel, of MST3k, said they'd never do Plan
9, because there was simply no way they could top it. It was worse than
self-parody.

mark

Keith F. Lynch

2008-07-07 02:41:25 UTC

Post by mark
I read, somewhere, that Joel, of MST3k, said they'd never do Plan
9, because there was simply no way they could top it. It was worse
than self-parody.

Have they done Robot Monster?

--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

David Goldfarb

2008-07-07 22:41:26 UTC

Post by mark
I read, somewhere, that Joel, of MST3k, said they'd never do Plan
9, because there was simply no way they could top it. It was worse
than self-parody.

Have they done Robot Monster?

Yes. I remember seeing it around '92 or thereabouts.

--
David Goldfarb |"Tom?...I don't get you."
***@ocf.berkeley.edu | "Nobody does. I'm the wind, baby."
***@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Mystery Science Theater 3000

Karl Johanson

2008-07-06 20:17:56 UTC

Post by mike weber
Remembering "The Rebel", i guess Adams would have been okay for that.
Better than the producer's wife's chiropractor, or whoever it was in
"Plan 9", anyway.

I checked IMDB: you were close. It was Ed Wood's (director and
writer) wife's chiropractor. IMDB doesn't *list* a producer, but
says the film was financed by a Baptist church ... and that
Lugosi's part had been shot as it were on spec, and he died
before they had a script.
I've never seen the thing, and I think I'll leave it that way.

I quite highly reccommend the movie "Ed Wood".

Kip Williams

2008-07-06 20:29:06 UTC

Post by mike weber
Remembering "The Rebel", i guess Adams would have been okay for that.
Better than the producer's wife's chiropractor, or whoever it was in
"Plan 9", anyway.

I checked IMDB: you were close. It was Ed Wood's (director and
writer) wife's chiropractor. IMDB doesn't *list* a producer, but
says the film was financed by a Baptist church ... and that
Lugosi's part had been shot as it were on spec, and he died
before they had a script.
I've never seen the thing, and I think I'll leave it that way.

I quite highly reccommend the movie "Ed Wood".

Seconded. It was as great in a good way as PLAN 9 was in a bad way. It
really gave my sense of wonder a boost, and Martin Landau's terrific
performance was well supported by a regular dream of a cast. So many
great scenes. The meeting with Orson was almost scary. The physical
resemblance of the actor and the vocal work by the voice actor (Maurice
LaMarche?) worked so well together, I didn't suspect there had been any
dubbing until somebody told me about it.

Great ending, too. Exactly right for the movie.

Kip W

Karl Johanson

2008-07-06 21:20:38 UTC

Post by mike weber
Remembering "The Rebel", i guess Adams would have been okay for that.
Better than the producer's wife's chiropractor, or whoever it was in
"Plan 9", anyway.

I checked IMDB: you were close. It was Ed Wood's (director and
writer) wife's chiropractor. IMDB doesn't *list* a producer, but
says the film was financed by a Baptist church ... and that
Lugosi's part had been shot as it were on spec, and he died
before they had a script.
I've never seen the thing, and I think I'll leave it that way.

I quite highly reccommend the movie "Ed Wood".

Seconded. It was as great in a good way as PLAN 9 was in a bad way. It
really gave my sense of wonder a boost, and Martin Landau's terrific
performance

I actually managed to forget that Bela was dead until about the 6th scene
where Lanau played him.

was well supported by a regular dream of a cast. So many

Post by Kip Williams
great scenes. The meeting with Orson was almost scary. The physical
resemblance of the actor and the vocal work by the voice actor (Maurice
LaMarche?) worked so well together, I didn't suspect there had been any
dubbing until somebody told me about it.
Great ending, too. Exactly right for the movie.

Karl Johanson

Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing

2008-07-07 08:19:51 UTC

Post by mike weber
Remembering "The Rebel", i guess Adams would have been okay for that.
Better than the producer's wife's chiropractor, or whoever it was in
"Plan 9", anyway.

I checked IMDB: you were close. It was Ed Wood's (director and
writer) wife's chiropractor. IMDB doesn't *list* a producer, but
says the film was financed by a Baptist church ... and that
Lugosi's part had been shot as it were on spec, and he died
before they had a script.
I've never seen the thing, and I think I'll leave it that way.

I quite highly reccommend the movie "Ed Wood".

As would I.

My suspicion is that Tim Burton saw himself in Wood and his freakish band.
Basically, anybody with a vision that people don't at first get doesn't
know whether he's going to turn out, historically, to be Ed Wood or Orson
Welles.

-- Alan

Keith F. Lynch

2008-07-08 01:23:58 UTC

Post by Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
Basically, anybody with a vision that people don't at first get
doesn't know whether he's going to turn out, historically, to be
Ed Wood or Orson Welles.

I'm not so sure of that. My understanding is that Ed Wood never did
multiple takes, figuring that whatever happened in front of the camera
was good enough for the audience. That's not the attitude of someone
who has a vision.

--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing

2008-07-08 02:31:42 UTC

No, that's not the attitude of a careful craftsman. As shown in Burton's film,
though, I think it's clear that Wood thinks that what he's doing is so cool and
so compelling that he just needs to get something on film and it will work. In
fact, his vision is so compelling (to _him_, and to his ragtag players) that he
can't see what he's actually doing.

-- Alan

Karl Johanson

2008-07-09 02:46:37 UTC

I thought it was more a matter of he couldn't afford multiple takes.

Karl Johanson

mike weber

2008-07-09 04:52:24 UTC

On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:46:37 GMT, "Karl Johanson"

I thought it was more a matter of he couldn't afford multiple takes.

Yeah, well, "Eating Raoul" is a nearly great cult film, and,
considering it was literally shot on surplus film from the studios in
great part, i doubt that they could afford too many retakes.

And that is the difference between Paul Bartel and Ed Wood.

Nate Edel

2008-07-08 20:31:06 UTC

Post by mike weber
Remembering "The Rebel", i guess Adams would have been okay for that.
Better than the producer's wife's chiropractor, or whoever it was in
"Plan 9", anyway.

I checked IMDB: you were close. It was Ed Wood's (director and
writer) wife's chiropractor. IMDB doesn't *list* a producer, but
says the film was financed by a Baptist church ... and that
Lugosi's part had been shot as it were on spec, and he died
before they had a script.
I've never seen the thing, and I think I'll leave it that way.

The Depp/Burton biopic _Ed Wood_ is worth watching.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "I do have a cause, though. It is obscenity.
posting domain | I'm for it." - prologue to "Smut" by Tom Lehrer

Sean O'Hara

2008-07-06 19:08:07 UTC

In the Year of the Earth Rat, the Great and Powerful Kip Williams

Post by mike weber
On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:18:26 -0400, Kip Williams

And, of course, there's "Plan 9 from Outer Space"

I kept thinking of GIANT. I like your example lots better.

Dean had completed all the scenes before he died.

--
Sean O'Hara <http://diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com>
I like all my human interactions to involve shotguns.
-Molly Wood

Kip Williams

2008-07-06 19:54:38 UTC

Post by Sean O'Hara

Post by mike weber
On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:18:26 -0400, Kip Williams

Post by Kip Williams
Voice double, body double, and a third actress who covered her face
a lot. I re-read the article and see that it also tells where to see
an awful lot of detail on the resurrection of Marlon Brando for
SUPERMAN RETURNS.

And, of course, there's "Plan 9 from Outer Space"

I kept thinking of GIANT. I like your example lots better.

Dean had completed all the scenes before he died.

Perhaps, but according to IMDB, "After James Dean's death late in
production, Nick Adams provided Rink's voice for a few lines."

My impression had been that Adams had filled in in long shot for the
banquet. Turns out it was just the voice, and what I had thought was
necessity turns out to be purposeful -- that Dean suggested the
soliloquy be filmed in long shot to emphasize the emotion of the scene
(and it works).

Kip W

Jette

2008-07-04 15:11:32 UTC

Post by David G. Bell
On Thursday, in article

They had to do something like that for "Gladiator", but I think it was a
double, shot from behind, and a very good piece of dubbing.
CGI is going to have o get much easier and cheaper to beat that sort of
approach to the problem.

Heath Ledger died *just* after they finished the new Batman, but
fortunately no re-shooting was needed for that. However I understand
he was only part way through shooting "The Imaginarium of Doctor
Parnassus" and not all his scenes were in the can. Apparently Jude
Law and Colin Farrell will take turns to film Heath's missing scenes,
playing the same character.

--
Jette Goldie
***@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)

mike weber

2008-07-04 21:48:25 UTC

Post by Jette
Heath Ledger died *just* after they finished the new Batman, but
fortunately no re-shooting was needed for that. However I understand
he was only part way through shooting "The Imaginarium of Doctor
Parnassus" and not all his scenes were in the can. Apparently Jude
Law and Colin Farrell will take turns to film Heath's missing scenes,
playing the same character.

Somebody else, too, i think. I forget who, though.

mark

2008-07-07 01:29:39 UTC

Post by David G. Bell
On Thursday, in article

They had to do something like that for "Gladiator", but I think it was a
double, shot from behind, and a very good piece of dubbing.

<snip>
The alternative is, of course, Plan 9.

mark

Kip Williams

2008-07-07 01:49:51 UTC

Post by mark

Post by David G. Bell
On Thursday, in article

They had to do something like that for "Gladiator", but I think it was a
double, shot from behind, and a very good piece of dubbing.

<snip>
The alternative is, of course, Plan 9.

Well, plans 1 through 8 were failures.

Kip W

mike weber

2008-07-04 05:51:28 UTC

Post by Kip Williams
I take it you are unfamiliar with the ghastly way dead actors' images
have been manipulated in recent years? Talk about your uncanny valley.

Well, yes. I am unfamiliar with it. Care to provide some links?
Though I have read Willis's _Remake_, which seems to be about the same
thing.

"Sky Captain"?

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-04 06:56:27 UTC

Post by Kip Williams
I take it you are unfamiliar with the ghastly way dead actors' images
have been manipulated in recent years? Talk about your uncanny valley.

Well, yes. I am unfamiliar with it. Care to provide some links?
Though I have read Willis's _Remake_, which seems to be about the same
thing.

"Sky Captain"?

Oh, you mean the film of Olivier? But that was old *film"
from a movie that never got finished. I thought you were talking
about very carefully wrought CGI that came close enough to a real
person to arouse the uncanny valley effect in you. And I didn't
think they were getting that close yet.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

mike weber

2008-07-04 13:02:50 UTC

Post by Kip Williams
I take it you are unfamiliar with the ghastly way dead actors' images
have been manipulated in recent years? Talk about your uncanny valley.

Well, yes. I am unfamiliar with it. Care to provide some links?
Though I have read Willis's _Remake_, which seems to be about the same
thing.

"Sky Captain"?

He probably was.

mike weber

2008-07-04 05:57:27 UTC

Post by Kip Williams
I take it you are unfamiliar with the ghastly way dead actors' images
have been manipulated in recent years? Talk about your uncanny valley.

Well, yes. I am unfamiliar with it. Care to provide some links?
Though I have read Willis's _Remake_, which seems to be about the same
thing.

If you didn't see "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow" (and it's
not actually a bad film at all), here's the ghost of Laurence Olivier
as the ghost of the villain:

Wrong aspect ratio, though.

mark

2008-07-07 01:45:05 UTC

<snip>

Post by mike weber
If you didn't see "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow" (and it's
not actually a bad film at all), here's the ghost of Laurence Olivier
as the ghost of the villain: http://youtu.be/AqGBt0124bY
Wrong aspect ratio, though.

Sky Captain was another fun film. So, since we just watched one yesterday,
and one a couple of weeks ago, are Last Starfighter and Independence Day.
They did what I really like and approve of: they *appreciate* the good
parts of what they're doing a takeoff of. They *enjoy* them, and play with
them. The actors frequently look like they're enjoying working in them.
They all leave you with a good feeling, not "oh, some Hollywood Studio,
with an IQ equal to its shoe size divided by the number of producers,
decided to make a movie for people they consider idiots".

mark

mike weber

2008-07-07 02:04:16 UTC

Post by mark
Sky Captain was another fun film. So, since we just watched one yesterday,
and one a couple of weeks ago, are Last Starfighter and Independence Day.
They did what I really like and approve of: they *appreciate* the good
parts of what they're doing a takeoff of. They *enjoy* them, and play with
them. The actors frequently look like they're enjoying working in them.
They all leave you with a good feeling, not "oh, some Hollywood Studio,
with an IQ equal to its shoe size divided by the number of producers,
decided to make a movie for people they consider idiots".

"Galaxy Quest".

And, in another, way, "Dark Star"

mark

2008-07-08 01:49:50 UTC

"Galaxy Quest".

Absolutely. I own that. They got it *right*. And the author and producer
showed up at Worldcon to accept their Hugo, so as one of the hosts at the
Hugo Losers' Party, I got to talk to both for a while. Very nice guys, who
were blown away by fandom... as in, several hours later, maybe 03:30, I was
partyhopping, and saw them in the Mpls party, I think it was, talking to
fen like, well, fans.

Post by mike weber
And, in another, way, "Dark Star"

Teach the bomb phenomenology!

mark

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-08 02:16:03 UTC

Post by mark

Post by mike weber
"Galaxy Quest".

Absolutely. I own that. They got it *right*.

Well, except for one tiny little detail. The femmefans wouldn't
have been chasing the Kirk-equivalent. They would've been
chasing the Spock-equivalent.

(Adfui, feci.....)

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

David Goldfarb

2008-07-08 08:22:35 UTC

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Well, except for one tiny little detail. The femmefans wouldn't
have been chasing the Kirk-equivalent. They would've been
chasing the Spock-equivalent.
(Adfui, feci.....)

For those who don't read Latin, that's "Been there, done that."

--
David Goldfarb |"Obviously proud of knowing a word I didn't know,
***@ocf.berkeley.edu |Horace carefully repeated, 'Meretricious!'.
***@csua.berkeley.edu |Whereupon I replied, 'And a happy new year to you.'"
| -- Isaac Asimov

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-08 10:07:21 UTC

Post by David Goldfarb

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Well, except for one tiny little detail. The femmefans wouldn't
have been chasing the Kirk-equivalent. They would've been
chasing the Spock-equivalent.
(Adfui, feci.....)

For those who don't read Latin, that's "Been there, done that."

Yup.

And perhaps I should add, "Even if he *hadn't* been played by
Alan Rickman."

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

Dorothy J Heydt

2008-07-07 02:47:33 UTC

Post by mark
<snip>

*ahem* Galaxy Quest.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
***@kithrup.com

mark

2008-07-07 01:28:29 UTC

Great! I want the DVD.
(I suppose that no amount of restoration or remastering will
keep the hero from looking like such a dweeb, but that's life.)

You're just *not* the audience it was intended for. Look at some other
silent films, and the acting in them. It was a non-naturalistic stylization
to convey emotion to you (with no voice, and very little dialog.

mark

trinlay

2008-07-06 04:59:35 UTC