Post by Grizzlie AntagonistPost by bigdogPost by Grizzlie AntagonistPost by Steve M. GalbraithPost by Grizzlie AntagonistPost by Steve M. GalbraithPost by clavigerPost by clavigerThe Donahue Theory
Howard Donahue believed SSA Hickey was bravely trying
to do his job and return fire at the sniper in the 6th floor
window. To do that he had to pick up the AR-15, stand up,
twist to the right and aim at the window LHO was shooting
from. While he was attempting to make this awkward shot
SSA Greer turned to look back at the President and saw his
head explode.
Greer tapped on the brake causing the Security Car driver to
hit the brake to keep from rear ending the Limousine. Another
possibility Greer did not tap the break but took his foot off the
pedal so the heavy Limousine suddenly slowed down causing
the SSA driver of the Security Car to hit the brake. Either way,
the slowdown caused SSA Hickey to loose balance and fire his
rifle.
A young Sailor in the US Navy wrote a letter to Donahue saying
his grandfather was in Dealey Plaza that day and saw the SSA
with a rifle stand up then fall forward and heard the rifle blast.
Donahue tried to stay in contact but never heard from him again.
Greer tapped on the brake causing the Security Car driver to hit the brake
to keep from rear ending the Limousine. Another possibility Greer did not
tap the break but took his foot off the pedal so the heavy Limousine
suddenly slowed down causing the SSA driver of the Security Car to hit the
brake. Either way, the slowdown caused SSA Hickey to lose balance and
fire his rifle.
Where did the bullet fragments that were found in the limo and that were
traced to Oswald's rifle originate from?
From Oswald's rifle, of course.
Post by Steve M. GalbraithHow did they get into the limo?
By rebounding from the pavement into the limo and onto JFK. He is
initially reacting to Oswald's first missed shot in which he was
nevertheless struck by the fragmented bullet.
James Tague was struck with another portion of the same fragmented bullet.
Post by Steve M. GalbraithAnd what caused that bullet to fragment?
Contact with the pavement.
The Haags did tests firing Carcano bullets into pavement/cement and the
bullets, surprisingly, completely disintegrated; they didn't fragment.
It's in the Nova show "Cold Case" but I can't find the specific test.
I don't see in the Zapruder film where this would have occurred? Before
Z-224? Before 313?
http://youtu.be/iiUv2WQKBjo
I think this is what you're looking for. But I question the NOVA inquiry.
I assume that it was conducted in good faith, but the result of this
particular experiment flies in the face of all that I have read about
Mannlicher-Carcano guns and ammunition -- which is that guns from this
model can be used to bring down elephants and the bullets -- due to the
relatively low velocity at which they travel and due to their full metal
jacket surface -- are sturdily manufactured and are built to drill through
solid objects when fired.
That's precisely how one MC round could pass through two men, cause
significant damage even to the extent of fracturing a rib, and remain
relatively undamaged itself. There was nothing "magic" about its
performance at all.
An MC round would suffer more damage after striking pavement. So one
might expect an MC round to fragment to some extent after striking
pavement, but it seems completely out of character for it to disintegrate
altogether.
The lone gunman theory -- which still differs from the lone assassin, two
gunmen theory -- supposes that the fragments attributed to Oswald's rifle,
which were found in the limousine, fragmented as a result of the fatal
head shot but that again is uncharacteristic of an MC round. Pavement
might cause it to fragment but the bullets are supposed to drill through
bone. And as claviger points out, no cranial residue was ever reported
having been found on those fragments.
There are witnesses who saw debris fly off Kennedy during the shooting
sequence which would support the scenario of his having been hit by a
fragmented bullet that ricocheted off of a harder surface. Donahue
concludes a missed ricochet at Z189 with the single bullet strike coming
at Z237-238, contrary to the speculation concerning Connally's lapel flip
in the 220's.
How do you explain JFK and JBC both reacting at Z226 by suddenly raising
their arms in perfect unison. That would be in reaction to a shot striking
them at or about Z223.
Maybe and maybe not. I used to hold firm for a single bullet strike in
the 230's. Connally himself thought that he was hit at Frame 234, and
there is also some unison of motion in the late 230's. I'm less dogmatic
now about when/where the single-bullet strike took place and am open to
either possibility.
If you held for a single bullet strike in the 230s then you must have
adhered to the Jim Moore (Conspiracy of One) theory that JFK's raising of
his arms at 226 was a defensive posture in reaction to being shower with
debris from the first shot. I used to entertain that as a possibility but
the more I looked at the Z-film I simply couldn't accept that as reality.
JFK had been hit prior to 226 and there is not a doubt in my mind about
that. I also have no doubt JBC was hit by the same shot.
Post by Grizzlie AntagonistPost by bigdogThat's just 34 frames after this theoretical miss
at Z189. That's 34 frames. Less than two seconds.
Read for content! Read for content! You cannot respond if you don't know
what you're responding to.
I alluded to two different scenarios: 189 & 237 and 182 & 223.
I did read for content and I rejected the possibility of a 237 single
bullet strike for the reasons I have already stated. JFK and JBC were hit
at or about 223 give or take a frame. To me, that is a mortal lock. A 182
miss while theoretically possible seems highly improbable for three
reasons. It comes just 2.2 seconds prior to the single bullet strike which
is a tenth of a second less than the minimum firing time the FBI concluded
was necessary for an aimed shot. I know the Carcano can be fired in less
time but not if one takes the time to aim the second shot. 182 also comes
after the observable reactions of JBC and Rosemary Willis. The primary
reason for rejecting a shot at either 182 or 189 is that we would have to
believe Oswald tried to fire through the tree. JFK did not come clear of
the tree until 210.
Post by Grizzlie AntagonistNo one is talking about a 189/223 sequence. No one. No one. Only you.
I believe that this is called a "strawman" argument.
The single bullet struck at or about 223. That is a given. It's not a
multiple choice exercise.
Post by Grizzlie AntagonistPost by bigdogIt might be possible to
fire the Carcano twice in that amount of time but not if you take the time
to actually aim the second shot. This goofy theory simply is incompatible
with the Z-film.
Oswald's MC and Hickey's AR-15.
Only one was fired.
Post by Grizzlie AntagonistYou have two differently-performing bullets: the MC round which strikes
two people, causing severe injury to both while remaining relatively
undamaged and the round which delivered the fatal headshot which didn't
merely fragment but splintered into tiny pieces -- a frangible bullet, not
unlike the 5.56mm /.223 cal round that is fired by an AR-15.
The head shot was a primary strike into the dense bone of the skull. There
is no reason to believe it would behave the same as a bullet that first
passed the through soft tissue of two bodies and was tumbling before it
hit rib bone. It's an apples to oranges comparison.
Post by Grizzlie AntagonistThe Zapruder file doesn't exist in a vacuum. A Hickey misfire is the
scenario that is compatible with ALL of the known evidence.
Not even close.
Post by Grizzlie AntagonistIt is more
compatible with the 6 mm entry wound in JFK's head than is Oswald's 6.5 MC
round.
The lone-gunman theory is a goofy theory which is incompatible with the
weight of ALL the evidence.
On the contrary, it is the only theory which is supported by evidence. All
the recovered ammo was matched to Oswald's Carcano to the exclusion of all
other weapons in the world. No one saw anyone else fire a rifle that day.
You would have us believe that the guy who was aiming at JFK missed him
while another guy accidentally discharge his weapon without it being heard
by the other occupants of the car and of all the places such a randomly
fired shot could have struck, it just happened to hit the intended target
of the assassin. Hickey had his weapon pointed upward. JFK's head was
lower than the top of the windshield on the Queen Mary. In order for
Hickey's weapon to strike JFK in the back of the head, the shot would
either have to go through the windshield of the Queen Mary or it would
have to be raised above the windshield and fired at a downward angle. To
do that Hickey would have had to raise his weapon to shoulder level. That
is not something that would be done accidentally. The theory is
preposterous for so many reasons.
Post by Grizzlie AntagonistPost by bigdogPost by Grizzlie AntagonistYou have to have at least 40 frames or so between shots to accommodate two
Oswald shots. And interestingly enough, Daniel Roffe, who also supports
the Hickey accident scenario, accepts the single bullet strike as coming
in the 220s and so he places the first missed shot a little earlier than
Donahue does. Roffe places the first missed shot at 182 and the
single-bullet strike at 223, so he has Oswald operating that bolt in
absolute minimum time.
Which is silly because I'm quite sure Oswald was trying to hit a target,
not see how fast he could fire his rifle. Nobody who was trying to hit a
target would attempt to fire the rifle that rapidly. It is my belief there
were almost 4 seconds between the first and second shot. That allows
enough time for reacquiring the target, aiming, and squeezing the
trigger.
Hello! McFly! He's not at the shooting range. He's shooting in the
direction of the presidential motorcade. In a crowded area where he might
be seen and from which someone might return fire. He doesn't want to
remain in that window longer than necessary.
Do you think it's possible -- just barely possible -- that adrenaline
might take over?
I don't doubt adrenaline would take over. That doesn't mean he is just
going to start firing wildly. His intent was to hit JFK and he only had
four rounds. He had to make at least one of those shots count. Rapid
firing the weapon would not be the way to do that. My best guess for the
first shot is at 151 which admittedly is far from certain. It is based on
the preponderance of evidence. That is before the limo passed under the
tree. By the time Oswald loaded his next round, the limo was under the
tree. He waited for JFK to come into the clear at 210, took aim and
squeezed off a round at or about 221 with the bullet taking about two
frames to reach the target. He cycled the next round and reacquired the
target. He probably could see his second shot found the market and took
steady aim for the next shot. He squeezed that shot at about 311, striking
JFK at 313. He cycled his last round but when he reacquired the target
realized it was no longer necessary.
