S7E10 Hide

[Agamemnon]

This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.

There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd find
in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown and
being mysterious.

Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in only
45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.

As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
viewer to invent.

Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition of
his companion, a la TRF/TAP.

The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.

Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.

10/10

Looking forward to next week's story.

[The Doctor]

Post by Agamemnon
This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.
There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd find
in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown and
being mysterious.
Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in only
45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.
As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
viewer to invent.
Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition of
his companion, a la TRF/TAP.
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

Looking forward to it!!

[Stephen Wilson]

Post by Agamemnon
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)? Talking of the alien/crooked
man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story. Clara was
also quite inconsistent, as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
interface thingy in the form of Clara.. And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

[The Doctor]

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by Agamemnon
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)? Talking of the alien/crooked
man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story. Clara was
also quite inconsistent, as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
interface thingy in the form of Clara.. And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

Linear as always. I take it 0/10 from you Sw.

[Monsieur Tabernac]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 00:15:29 +0100, "Stephen Wilson"

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by Agamemnon
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)? Talking of the alien/crooked
man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story. Clara was
also quite inconsistent, as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
interface thingy in the form of Clara.. And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

I really liked this one, despite the mispronunciation of "Metabelis
Three".

[The Doctor]

Post by Monsieur Tabernac
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 00:15:29 +0100, "Stephen Wilson"

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by Agamemnon
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)? Talking of the alien/crooked
man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story. Clara was
also quite inconsistent, as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
interface thingy in the form of Clara.. And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

I really liked this one, despite the mispronunciation of "Metabelis
Three".

23 minutes for me!

[¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 00:15:29 +0100, in rec.arts.drwho "Stephen Wilson" <***@nospam.ntlworld.com> wrote:

¡
¡"Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
¡news:***@eclipse.net.uk...
¡>
¡> The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
¡> character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
¡> it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
¡> where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
¡>
¡> Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
¡> most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
¡>
¡> 10/10
¡>
¡> Looking forward to next week's story.
¡
¡I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
¡opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
¡Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
¡did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
¡was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
¡its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)? Talking of the alien/crooked
¡man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
¡story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
¡throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story. Clara was
¡also quite inconsistent, as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
¡interface thingy in the form of Clara.. And it felt a bit like a proper
¡ending got edited out by mistake.
¡
¡

It's like Walt Disney diabetes and Nazi world is being realized more and more.
They did better with less money after strikes, even the Master's stupid King's Demons robot didn't suck this bad.

[solar penguin]

Post by Stephen Wilson
I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion.

Really? I thought it was very good, compared to most modern DW

Post by Stephen Wilson
Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten.

But very, very different style. With Rings it was as if he was trying
to push the envelope and see how far he could go in doing something
that didn't feel like DW at all. Here it's more like he's trying to
go in the opposite direction and see how much he can recreate the feel
of traditional DW.

If it wasn't for his reusing the "power of daughterly love" plot-
device, I wouldn't have recognised it as the same writer at all.

Post by Stephen Wilson
Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered.

Well, that's a problem with anyone trying to do anything ambitious in
the 45 minute format.

But I've always preferred it when stories try to stretch themselves to
do something too big and and too complex for the budget and/or
timeslot (even if they don't quite succeed - e.g. Time Flight is one
of my guilty pleasures!) I'd rather they did that than just play it
safe and produce something formulaic, familiar, unambitious and bland,
like last week's offering.

Post by Stephen Wilson
Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own?

Presumably a side effect of her malfunctioning experimental time
machine.

Post by Stephen Wilson
Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)?

More importantly, how long had it been there? Assuming it's native to
the other dimension, had Hila accidentally switched places with it
when she arrived in prehistory? Or had it been somehow brought to our
universe by an attempt to contact the "ghost"?

I'd love to know more about it. But that's the penalty of only having
45 minutes.

Post by Stephen Wilson
Talking of the alien/crooked
man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story.

True, but throwing in an unnecessary monster because "DW has to have
monsters" is hardly new. It didn't ruin "Caves of Androzani", did it?

Post by Stephen Wilson
Clara was
also quite inconsistent,

I think that was supposed to be deliberate. The psychic did say
something about Clara being more scared than she lets on, implying
that a lot of what we see is an act that she puts on.

Post by Stephen Wilson
as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
interface thingy in the form of Clara..

I'm hoping that was setting things up for an upcoming part of the
arc. (But maybe that's just me being optimistic. Too often things
that looked like they were setting up arc elements have just fizzled
away.)

Post by Stephen Wilson
And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

At least there was stuff there to edit out. Better than not having
enough ideas in the first place.

[The Doctor]

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion.

Really? I thought it was very good, compared to most modern DW

Post by Stephen Wilson
Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten.

But very, very different style. With Rings it was as if he was trying
to push the envelope and see how far he could go in doing something
that didn't feel like DW at all. Here it's more like he's trying to
go in the opposite direction and see how much he can recreate the feel
of traditional DW.
If it wasn't for his reusing the "power of daughterly love" plot-
device, I wouldn't have recognised it as the same writer at all.

Post by Stephen Wilson
Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered.

Well, that's a problem with anyone trying to do anything ambitious in
the 45 minute format.
But I've always preferred it when stories try to stretch themselves to
do something too big and and too complex for the budget and/or
timeslot (even if they don't quite succeed - e.g. Time Flight is one
of my guilty pleasures!) I'd rather they did that than just play it
safe and produce something formulaic, familiar, unambitious and bland,
like last week's offering.

Post by Stephen Wilson
Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own?

Presumably a side effect of her malfunctioning experimental time
machine.

Post by Stephen Wilson
Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)?

More importantly, how long had it been there? Assuming it's native to
the other dimension, had Hila accidentally switched places with it
when she arrived in prehistory? Or had it been somehow brought to our
universe by an attempt to contact the "ghost"?
I'd love to know more about it. But that's the penalty of only having
45 minutes.

Post by Stephen Wilson
Talking of the alien/crooked
man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story.

True, but throwing in an unnecessary monster because "DW has to have
monsters" is hardly new. It didn't ruin "Caves of Androzani", did it?

Post by Stephen Wilson
Clara was
also quite inconsistent,

I think that was supposed to be deliberate. The psychic did say
something about Clara being more scared than she lets on, implying
that a lot of what we see is an act that she puts on.

Post by Stephen Wilson
as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
interface thingy in the form of Clara..

I'm hoping that was setting things up for an upcoming part of the
arc. (But maybe that's just me being optimistic. Too often things
that looked like they were setting up arc elements have just fizzled
away.)

Post by Stephen Wilson
And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

At least there was stuff there to edit out. Better than not having
enough ideas in the first place.

Penguin, YOu , me and Ag are the few who defend Hide.

[Stephen Wilson]

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion.

Really? I thought it was very good, compared to most modern DW

Post by Stephen Wilson
Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten.

But very, very different style. With Rings it was as if he was trying
to push the envelope and see how far he could go in doing something
that didn't feel like DW at all. Here it's more like he's trying to
go in the opposite direction and see how much he can recreate the feel
of traditional DW.

By using a handful of characters, crap special effects and references to the
past (mis-pronounced Metebelis, cloister bell ringing when the Doctor was in
danger rather than the TARDIS, etc)?

Post by solar penguin
If it wasn't for his reusing the "power of daughterly love" plot-
device, I wouldn't have recognised it as the same writer at all.

After his first story, I said it seemed to me that Neil Cross understood
neither Dr Who nor science fiction in general. This story just reinforced
that opinion.

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered.

Well, that's a problem with anyone trying to do anything ambitious in
the 45 minute format.
But I've always preferred it when stories try to stretch themselves to
do something too big and and too complex for the budget and/or
timeslot (even if they don't quite succeed - e.g. Time Flight is one
of my guilty pleasures!) I'd rather they did that than just play it
safe and produce something formulaic, familiar, unambitious and bland,
like last week's offering.

I completely agree. But there's a difference between trying to do something
different/complex and writing something that really makes no sense at all.
You don't have to spoon-feed the audience, but I really couldn't see where
the author was coming from. He made a big deal about going through all the
cliches of a ghost story - changes in temperature, writing on the wall, etc
yet the story ended without ever explaining why the temperature dropped in
one part of the room, what the point of the Doctor's chalk circle was, who
wrote on the wall, etc. Set pieces in a ghost story, yes. Making sense in
the overall context of the story? No.

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own?

Presumably a side effect of her malfunctioning experimental time
machine.

A poorly thought-through plot device in other words.

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)?

More importantly, how long had it been there? Assuming it's native to
the other dimension, had Hila accidentally switched places with it
when she arrived in prehistory? Or had it been somehow brought to our
universe by an attempt to contact the "ghost"?
I'd love to know more about it. But that's the penalty of only having
45 minutes.

I really don't think the author had any explanations. So I'm rather greatful
we *didn't* get another 45 minutes!

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
Talking of the alien/crooked
man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story.

True, but throwing in an unnecessary monster because "DW has to have
monsters" is hardly new. It didn't ruin "Caves of Androzani", did it?

Androzani was OK, but highly over-rated if you ask me...

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
Clara was
also quite inconsistent,

I think that was supposed to be deliberate. The psychic did say
something about Clara being more scared than she lets on, implying
that a lot of what we see is an act that she puts on.

There's never been a genuine psychic. The ones that make money are just good
readers of body language and tell their victims what they want to hear. I'm
not a great lover of characters that are meant to have psychic powers. But
if the author knew anything about Dr Who at all, he'd know that the Doctor
himself would have more psychic abilities than any human...

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
interface thingy in the form of Clara..

I'm hoping that was setting things up for an upcoming part of the
arc. (But maybe that's just me being optimistic. Too often things
that looked like they were setting up arc elements have just fizzled
away.)

Post by Stephen Wilson
And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

At least there was stuff there to edit out. Better than not having
enough ideas in the first place.

I don't know. I think I'd rather see a little unnecessary padding and a more
coherent story than 1,001 ideas, most of which are irrelevant and don't
allow the story to breathe properly.

[solar penguin]

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten.

But very, very different style. With Rings it was as if he was trying
to push the envelope and see how far he could go in doing something
that didn't feel like DW at all. Here it's more like he's trying to go
in the opposite direction and see how much he can recreate the feel of
traditional DW.

By using a handful of characters, crap special effects and references to
the past (mis-pronounced Metebelis, cloister bell ringing when the
Doctor was in danger rather than the TARDIS, etc)?

I don't think the writer is responsible for the special effects or Matt
Smith's pronunciation. Or are you actually suggesting that the script
actually micro-managed it to that level of control-freakish detail?

Post by Stephen Wilson
After his first story, I said it seemed to me that Neil Cross understood
neither Dr Who nor science fiction in general. This story just
reinforced that opinion.

You seem to be suggesting that Doctor Who _should_ be science fiction.
If that's the case, then you're the one who doesn't understand them!

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by solar penguin
But I've always preferred it when stories try to stretch themselves to
do something too big and and too complex for the budget and/or timeslot
(even if they don't quite succeed - e.g. Time Flight is one of my
guilty pleasures!) I'd rather they did that than just play it safe and
produce something formulaic, familiar, unambitious and bland, like last
week's offering.

I completely agree. But there's a difference between trying to do
something different/complex and writing something that really makes no
sense at all. You don't have to spoon-feed the audience, but I really
couldn't see where the author was coming from. He made a big deal about
going through all the cliches of a ghost story - changes in temperature,
writing on the wall, etc yet the story ended without ever explaining why
the temperature dropped in one part of the room, what the point of the
Doctor's chalk circle was, who wrote on the wall, etc. Set pieces in a
ghost story, yes. Making sense in the overall context of the story? No.

The impression I got was that there was some sort of feedback between the
haunting phenomenon and the psychic woman. (Remember all that talk about
non-objective observations, and the Doctor's remark about the clocks.)
She, wrongly, believed that she was dealing with a traditional ghost.
(Remember her remark at the start that she thought the ghost felt very
dead.) So her subconscious influenced the phenomenon and caused the set
pieces.

The author didn't "spoon-feed the audience", but in your case it might've
been better if he had!

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own?

Presumably a side effect of her malfunctioning experimental time
machine.

A poorly thought-through plot device in other words.

You'd rather there was a load of meaningless Trek-style technobabble
explaining exactly how particles and waves and superstrings emitted by
her time machine caused this to happen?

Post by Stephen Wilson
There's never been a genuine psychic. The ones that make money are just
good readers of body language and tell their victims what they want to
hear.

Obviously there are a lot of charlatans pretending to be professional
psychics. But that doesn't mean that genuine psychic phenomenon don't
exist in real life. They're just not as regular and controllable as the
fraudsters pretend. (e.g. I've experienced many psychic visions and
premonitions, and even been the focus the occasional burst of electrical
poltergeist activity, but there's no way I can turn it on or off at will.)

Post by Stephen Wilson
I'm not a great lover of characters that are meant to have psychic
powers.

Why not? Even you're too closed-minded to accept that psychic powers
happen in real life, that doesn't still mean they can't happen in the
fantasy universe of Doctor Who.

Post by Stephen Wilson
But if the author knew anything about Dr Who at all, he'd know
that the Doctor himself would have more psychic abilities than any
human...

_Any_ human? In "The Sensorites", the crewman John was sensitive enough
to be driven mad by the alien telepathy, while the Doctor didn't sense
anything at all.

In fact, if _you_ knew anything about Dr Who at all, you'd know that the
Doctor's psychic abilities are very limited and usually need to be
boosted by artificial devices such as telepathic circuits, psychic paper,
etc. (The only notable exception was his Vulcan mind meld with Madame de
Pompadour, which many fans noted at the time felt wrong.)

[Tim Bruening]

Post by solar penguin
In fact, if _you_ knew anything about Dr Who at all, you'd know that the
Doctor's psychic abilities are very limited and usually need to be
boosted by artificial devices such as telepathic circuits, psychic paper,
etc. (The only notable exception was his Vulcan mind meld with Madame de
Pompadour, which many fans noted at the time felt wrong.)

I saw the Doctor do a Vulcan mind meld with the Master to hear the drumbeats in his mind! (The Sound of Drums, The End of Time).

[The Doctor]

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by solar penguin
In fact, if _you_ knew anything about Dr Who at all, you'd know that the
Doctor's psychic abilities are very limited and usually need to be
boosted by artificial devices such as telepathic circuits, psychic paper,
etc. (The only notable exception was his Vulcan mind meld with Madame de
Pompadour, which many fans noted at the time felt wrong.)

I saw the Doctor do a Vulcan mind meld with the Master to hear the
drumbeats in his mind! (The Sound of Drums, The End of Time).

A sort of Vulcan Mind Meld.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by solar penguin
Obviously there are a lot of charlatans pretending to be professional
psychics. But that doesn't mean that genuine psychic phenomenon don't
exist in real life. They're just not as regular and controllable as the
fraudsters pretend. (e.g. I've experienced many psychic visions and
premonitions, and even been the focus the occasional burst of electrical
poltergeist activity, but there's no way I can turn it on or off at will.)

So THAT's why science can't prove the existence of psychic phenomena! They can't be controlled well enough to allow for repeatable experiments!

Are there any circumstances under which you are more likely to experience psychic activity?

[The Doctor]

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by solar penguin
Obviously there are a lot of charlatans pretending to be professional
psychics. But that doesn't mean that genuine psychic phenomenon don't
exist in real life. They're just not as regular and controllable as the
fraudsters pretend. (e.g. I've experienced many psychic visions and
premonitions, and even been the focus the occasional burst of electrical
poltergeist activity, but there's no way I can turn it on or off at will.)

So THAT's why science can't prove the existence of psychic phenomena!
They can't be controlled well enough to allow for repeatable
experiments!
Are there any circumstances under which you are more likely to
experience psychic activity?

Science is part of philosophy.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by solar penguin
Obviously there are a lot of charlatans pretending to be professional
psychics. But that doesn't mean that genuine psychic phenomenon don't
exist in real life. They're just not as regular and controllable as the
fraudsters pretend. (e.g. I've experienced many psychic visions and
premonitions, and even been the focus the occasional burst of electrical
poltergeist activity, but there's no way I can turn it on or off at will.)

So THAT's why science can't prove the existence of psychic phenomena!
They can't be controlled well enough to allow for repeatable
experiments!
Are there any circumstances under which you are more likely to
experience psychic activity?

Science is part of philosophy.

How would that help scientists make repeatable experiments on psychic powers?

[The Doctor]

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by solar penguin
Obviously there are a lot of charlatans pretending to be professional
psychics. But that doesn't mean that genuine psychic phenomenon don't
exist in real life. They're just not as regular and controllable as the
fraudsters pretend. (e.g. I've experienced many psychic visions and
premonitions, and even been the focus the occasional burst of electrical
poltergeist activity, but there's no way I can turn it on or off at will.)

So THAT's why science can't prove the existence of psychic phenomena!
They can't be controlled well enough to allow for repeatable
experiments!
Are there any circumstances under which you are more likely to
experience psychic activity?

Science is part of philosophy.

How would that help scientists make repeatable experiments on psychic powers?

Get into dangerous philosophy.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by solar penguin
Obviously there are a lot of charlatans pretending to be professional
psychics. But that doesn't mean that genuine psychic phenomenon don't
exist in real life. They're just not as regular and controllable as the
fraudsters pretend. (e.g. I've experienced many psychic visions and
premonitions, and even been the focus the occasional burst of electrical
poltergeist activity, but there's no way I can turn it on or off at will.)

So THAT's why science can't prove the existence of psychic phenomena!
They can't be controlled well enough to allow for repeatable
experiments!
Are there any circumstances under which you are more likely to
experience psychic activity?

Science is part of philosophy.

How would that help scientists make repeatable experiments on psychic powers?

Get into dangerous philosophy.

And then the Overlords arrive?

[Tim Bruening]

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by solar penguin
Obviously there are a lot of charlatans pretending to be professional
psychics. But that doesn't mean that genuine psychic phenomenon don't
exist in real life. They're just not as regular and controllable as the
fraudsters pretend. (e.g. I've experienced many psychic visions and
premonitions, and even been the focus the occasional burst of electrical
poltergeist activity, but there's no way I can turn it on or off at will.)

So THAT's why science can't prove the existence of psychic phenomena!
They can't be controlled well enough to allow for repeatable
experiments!
Are there any circumstances under which you are more likely to
experience psychic activity?

Science is part of philosophy.

How would that help scientists make repeatable experiments on psychic powers?

Get into dangerous philosophy.

How would getting into dangerous philosophy help scientists make repeatable experiments in psychic powers?

[Tim Bruening]

Animal moment: The Doctor compares the TARDIS to a cat.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Tim Bruening
Animal moment: The Doctor compares the TARDIS to a cat.

Also a large dragonfly in Earth's far past.

[The Doctor]

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening
Animal moment: The Doctor compares the TARDIS to a cat.

Also a large dragonfly in Earth's far past.

Tlaking to youself again.

[Tim Bruening]

Another animal moment: Clara twice calls the TARDIS a cow.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Tim Bruening
Another animal moment: Clara twice calls the TARDIS a cow.

More animals: The professor worked with carrier pigeons during his spy career.

The Doctor refers to the birds and the bees and romantic fleas when telling Clara that the monster he saw in the Pocket dimension is separated from its lover. The Doctor seems to think that the monster is female, but how can he tell?

[The Doctor]

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening
Another animal moment: Clara twice calls the TARDIS a cow.

More animals: The professor worked with carrier pigeons during his spy career.
The Doctor refers to the birds and the bees and romantic fleas when
telling Clara that the monster he saw in the Pocket dimension is
separated from its lover. The Doctor seems to think that the monster is
female, but how can he tell?

You love to talk to yourself.

[Tim Bruening]

Animals: I think I heard birds singing late in this episode.

[The Doctor]

Post by Tim Bruening
Animals: I think I heard birds singing late in this episode.

Will check.

[The Doctor]

Post by Tim Bruening
Another animal moment: Clara twice calls the TARDIS a cow.

what a temper!!

[The Doctor]

Post by solar penguin

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by solar penguin
Obviously there are a lot of charlatans pretending to be professional
psychics. But that doesn't mean that genuine psychic phenomenon don't
exist in real life. They're just not as regular and

controllable as the

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by solar penguin
fraudsters pretend. (e.g. I've experienced many psychic visions and
premonitions, and even been the focus the occasional burst of

electrical

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by solar penguin
poltergeist activity, but there's no way I can turn it on or off

at will.)

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Tim Bruening
So THAT's why science can't prove the existence of psychic phenomena!
They can't be controlled well enough to allow for repeatable
experiments!
Are there any circumstances under which you are more likely to
experience psychic activity?

Science is part of philosophy.

How would that help scientists make repeatable experiments on psychic powers?

Get into dangerous philosophy.

How would getting into dangerous philosophy help scientists make
repeatable experiments in psychic powers?

Beware what you harvest.

[Tim Bruening]

Great moment: Clara's angst over both being not yet born, and dead for 100 billion years from the Doctor's POV. She wonders if she's a ghost and if everyone is a ghost.

[The Doctor]

Post by Tim Bruening
Great moment: Clara's angst over both being not yet born, and dead for
100 billion years from the Doctor's POV. She wonders if she's a ghost
and if everyone is a ghost.

Great Caesar's Ghosts!

[Tim Bruening]

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten.

But very, very different style. With Rings it was as if he was trying
to push the envelope and see how far he could go in doing something
that didn't feel like DW at all. Here it's more like he's trying to go
in the opposite direction and see how much he can recreate the feel of
traditional DW.

By using a handful of characters, crap special effects and references to
the past (mis-pronounced Metebelis, cloister bell ringing when the
Doctor was in danger rather than the TARDIS, etc)?

I don't think the writer is responsible for the special effects or Matt
Smith's pronunciation. Or are you actually suggesting that the script
actually micro-managed it to that level of control-freakish detail?

Post by Stephen Wilson
After his first story, I said it seemed to me that Neil Cross understood
neither Dr Who nor science fiction in general. This story just
reinforced that opinion.

You seem to be suggesting that Doctor Who _should_ be science fiction.
If that's the case, then you're the one who doesn't understand them!

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by solar penguin
But I've always preferred it when stories try to stretch themselves to
do something too big and and too complex for the budget and/or timeslot
(even if they don't quite succeed - e.g. Time Flight is one of my
guilty pleasures!) I'd rather they did that than just play it safe and
produce something formulaic, familiar, unambitious and bland, like last
week's offering.

I completely agree. But there's a difference between trying to do
something different/complex and writing something that really makes no
sense at all. You don't have to spoon-feed the audience, but I really
couldn't see where the author was coming from. He made a big deal about
going through all the cliches of a ghost story - changes in temperature,
writing on the wall, etc yet the story ended without ever explaining why
the temperature dropped in one part of the room, what the point of the
Doctor's chalk circle was, who wrote on the wall, etc. Set pieces in a
ghost story, yes. Making sense in the overall context of the story? No.

The impression I got was that there was some sort of feedback between the
haunting phenomenon and the psychic woman. (Remember all that talk about
non-objective observations, and the Doctor's remark about the clocks.)
She, wrongly, believed that she was dealing with a traditional ghost.
(Remember her remark at the start that she thought the ghost felt very
dead.) So her subconscious influenced the phenomenon and caused the set
pieces.
The author didn't "spoon-feed the audience", but in your case it might've
been better if he had!

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own?

Presumably a side effect of her malfunctioning experimental time
machine.

A poorly thought-through plot device in other words.

You'd rather there was a load of meaningless Trek-style technobabble
explaining exactly how particles and waves and superstrings emitted by
her time machine caused this to happen?

Post by Stephen Wilson
There's never been a genuine psychic. The ones that make money are just
good readers of body language and tell their victims what they want to
hear.

Obviously there are a lot of charlatans pretending to be professional
psychics. But that doesn't mean that genuine psychic phenomenon don't
exist in real life. They're just not as regular and controllable as the
fraudsters pretend. (e.g. I've experienced many psychic visions and
premonitions, and even been the focus the occasional burst of electrical
poltergeist activity, but there's no way I can turn it on or off at will.)

Post by Stephen Wilson
I'm not a great lover of characters that are meant to have psychic
powers.

Why not? Even you're too closed-minded to accept that psychic powers
happen in real life, that doesn't still mean they can't happen in the
fantasy universe of Doctor Who.

Post by Stephen Wilson
But if the author knew anything about Dr Who at all, he'd know
that the Doctor himself would have more psychic abilities than any
human...

_Any_ human? In "The Sensorites", the crewman John was sensitive enough
to be driven mad by the alien telepathy, while the Doctor didn't sense
anything at all.
In fact, if _you_ knew anything about Dr Who at all, you'd know that the
Doctor's psychic abilities are very limited and usually need to be
boosted by artificial devices such as telepathic circuits, psychic paper,
etc. (The only notable exception was his Vulcan mind meld with Madame de
Pompadour, which many fans noted at the time felt wrong.)

After Hila was rescued, the Doctor said that she couldn't return to her own time (300 years in the future) because history had recorded that she had gone missing. Her failure to ever return to her time was therefore a "fixed point in time". Yet in the very previous episode, the Doctor said that the history of late 20th century Earth could change. I.E: A Martian Ice Warrior could start a nuclear war in 1983, in spite of Clara having been born after 1983 in a world where nuclear war had not occurred. Wouldn't history have recorded that there hadn't been a nuclear war in 1983, making the lack of a 1983 nuclear war a fixed point in time?

[The Doctor]

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten.

But very, very different style. With Rings it was as if he was trying
to push the envelope and see how far he could go in doing something
that didn't feel like DW at all. Here it's more like he's trying to go
in the opposite direction and see how much he can recreate the feel of
traditional DW.

By using a handful of characters, crap special effects and references to
the past (mis-pronounced Metebelis, cloister bell ringing when the
Doctor was in danger rather than the TARDIS, etc)?

I don't think the writer is responsible for the special effects or Matt
Smith's pronunciation. Or are you actually suggesting that the script
actually micro-managed it to that level of control-freakish detail?

Post by Stephen Wilson
After his first story, I said it seemed to me that Neil Cross understood
neither Dr Who nor science fiction in general. This story just
reinforced that opinion.

You seem to be suggesting that Doctor Who _should_ be science fiction.
If that's the case, then you're the one who doesn't understand them!

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by solar penguin
But I've always preferred it when stories try to stretch themselves to
do something too big and and too complex for the budget and/or timeslot
(even if they don't quite succeed - e.g. Time Flight is one of my
guilty pleasures!) I'd rather they did that than just play it safe and
produce something formulaic, familiar, unambitious and bland, like last
week's offering.

I completely agree. But there's a difference between trying to do
something different/complex and writing something that really makes no
sense at all. You don't have to spoon-feed the audience, but I really
couldn't see where the author was coming from. He made a big deal about
going through all the cliches of a ghost story - changes in temperature,
writing on the wall, etc yet the story ended without ever explaining why
the temperature dropped in one part of the room, what the point of the
Doctor's chalk circle was, who wrote on the wall, etc. Set pieces in a
ghost story, yes. Making sense in the overall context of the story? No.

The impression I got was that there was some sort of feedback between the
haunting phenomenon and the psychic woman. (Remember all that talk about
non-objective observations, and the Doctor's remark about the clocks.)
She, wrongly, believed that she was dealing with a traditional ghost.
(Remember her remark at the start that she thought the ghost felt very
dead.) So her subconscious influenced the phenomenon and caused the set
pieces.
The author didn't "spoon-feed the audience", but in your case it might've
been better if he had!

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by solar penguin

Post by Stephen Wilson
Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own?

Presumably a side effect of her malfunctioning experimental time
machine.

A poorly thought-through plot device in other words.

You'd rather there was a load of meaningless Trek-style technobabble
explaining exactly how particles and waves and superstrings emitted by
her time machine caused this to happen?

Post by Stephen Wilson
There's never been a genuine psychic. The ones that make money are just
good readers of body language and tell their victims what they want to
hear.

Obviously there are a lot of charlatans pretending to be professional
psychics. But that doesn't mean that genuine psychic phenomenon don't
exist in real life. They're just not as regular and controllable as the
fraudsters pretend. (e.g. I've experienced many psychic visions and
premonitions, and even been the focus the occasional burst of electrical
poltergeist activity, but there's no way I can turn it on or off at will.)

Post by Stephen Wilson
I'm not a great lover of characters that are meant to have psychic
powers.

Why not? Even you're too closed-minded to accept that psychic powers
happen in real life, that doesn't still mean they can't happen in the
fantasy universe of Doctor Who.

Post by Stephen Wilson
But if the author knew anything about Dr Who at all, he'd know
that the Doctor himself would have more psychic abilities than any
human...

_Any_ human? In "The Sensorites", the crewman John was sensitive enough
to be driven mad by the alien telepathy, while the Doctor didn't sense
anything at all.
In fact, if _you_ knew anything about Dr Who at all, you'd know that the
Doctor's psychic abilities are very limited and usually need to be
boosted by artificial devices such as telepathic circuits, psychic paper,
etc. (The only notable exception was his Vulcan mind meld with Madame de
Pompadour, which many fans noted at the time felt wrong.)

After Hila was rescued, the Doctor said that she couldn't return to her
own time (300 years in the future) because history had recorded that she
had gone missing. Her failure to ever return to her time was therefore
a "fixed point in time". Yet in the very previous episode, the Doctor
said that the history of late 20th century Earth could change. I.E: A
Martian Ice Warrior could start a nuclear war in 1983, in spite of Clara
having been born after 1983 in a world where nuclear war had not
occurred. Wouldn't history have recorded that there hadn't been a
nuclear war in 1983, making the lack of a 1983 nuclear war a fixed point
in time?

Question well taken.

[Timothy Bruening]

Could modern digital camera have photographed "Witch Of The Well"?

[The Other Doctor]

Post by Timothy Bruening
Could modern digital camera have photographed "Witch Of The Well"?

Yes, but only if they're red digital cameras.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Could modern digital camera have photographed "Witch Of The Well"?

Yes, but only if they're red digital cameras.

Why red.

[The Doctor]

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Could modern digital camera have photographed "Witch Of The Well"?

Yes, but only if they're red digital cameras.

Ha! HA!!

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Could modern digital camera have photographed "Witch Of The Well"?

Yes, but only if they're red digital cameras.

Ha! HA!!

Y red?

[Timothy Bruening]

Where will black chick live? Could she be an ancestor of Orson Pink?

[The Doctor]

Post by Timothy Bruening
Where will black chick live? Could she be an ancestor of Orson Pink?

Do not know.

[Tim Bruening]

Would it have been possible to photograph Hila with a digital camera?

[The Doctor]

Post by Tim Bruening
Would it have been possible to photograph Hila with a digital camera?

Possible.

[Timothy Bruening]

Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how could he extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

[roach]

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how could he extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

a timequake ?

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by roach

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how could he extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

a timequake ?

I envision a timequake diving Earth into several time zones. 2019 UK could hobnob with WWI France.

[The Doctor]

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by roach

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how

could he extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Post by roach
a timequake ?

I envision a timequake diving Earth into several time zones. 2019 UK
could hobnob with WWI France.

Diving?

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by roach

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how

could he extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Post by roach
a timequake ?

I envision a timequake diving Earth into several time zones. 2019 UK
could hobnob with WWI France.

Diving?

Sending troops by ship or helicopter across Channel to end WWI.

But dinosaurs might appear.

[The Doctor]

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by roach

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how

could he extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Post by roach
a timequake ?

I envision a timequake diving Earth into several time zones. 2019 UK
could hobnob with WWI France.

Diving?

Sending troops by ship or helicopter across Channel to end WWI.
But dinosaurs might appear.

Well the Tank was the secret superweapon of the time.

[The Other Doctor]

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how could he
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

[The Doctor]

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how could he
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

Why is a mouse when it spins?

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how could he
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

Why is a mouse when it spins?

Why is a TARDIS when it spins?

[The Doctor]

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how could he
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

Why is a mouse when it spins?

Why is a TARDIS when it spins?

Spoil the humour why don't you.

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how could he
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

Why is a mouse when it spins?

Because the chicken crossed the road.

[The Doctor]

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how could he
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

Why is a mouse when it spins?

Because the chicken crossed the road.

Less is more?

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how could he
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

Why is a mouse when it spins?

Because the chicken crossed the road.

Less is more?

War is peace.

[The Doctor]

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how

could he

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

Why is a mouse when it spins?

Because the chicken crossed the road.

Less is more?

War is peace.

Tim is war!

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how

could he

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

Why is a mouse when it spins?

Because the chicken crossed the road.

Less is more?

War is peace.

Tim is war!

Scarcity is plenty.

[The Doctor]

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how

could he

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

Why is a mouse when it spins?

Because the chicken crossed the road.

Less is more?

War is peace.

Tim is war!

Scarcity is plenty.

Definitely!

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how

could he

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

Why is a mouse when it spins?

Because the chicken crossed the road.

Less is more?

War is peace.

Tim is war!

I am war?

[The Doctor]

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
Since Doctor was able to photograph Hila in the far future, how

could he

Post by The Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening

Post by The Doctor

Post by The Other Doctor

Post by Timothy Bruening
extract her from pocket universe in 1974?

Because one of his legs are both the same.

Why is a mouse when it spins?

Because the chicken crossed the road.

Less is more?

War is peace.

Tim is war!

I am war?

Yes, esp the way you spamtroll rec.arts.drwho !!

[TB]

Hila the pioneering time traveler has been rescued from the pocket universe. The pocket universe also contained a monster which had been chasing her. The Doctor has somehow jumped to the conclusion that the monster is in love with Hila! The monster (which is big and grey) doesn't look anything like a human, so why would it be attracted to her?

[TB]

Post by TB
Hila the pioneering time traveler has been rescued from the pocket universe.

Possible resolution of "Listen" conundrum!

Clara played a role in rescuing Hila, so she is now linked to her. There was another Terran time traveler linked to Clara: Orson Pink (Listen). Clara's link to the TARDIS telepathic circuits had led the TARDIS to Orson, Orson had a toy soldier that once belonged to the young Danny Pink (Clara's boyfriend), Orson looked like Danny, Orson said that he had a female time traveling ancestor, and the Doctor thought that there was a link. There was a strong implication that Clara and Danny would be ancestors to Orson Pink!

Dark Waters/Death In Heaven: Then Danny died when hit by a car, then died again to wipe out the Cyber spore. This led to a conundrum, which could be resolved by having Clara marry a brother of Danny, or by having Clara use sperm that Danny had stored, or by bringing Danny back from the dead again, or by bringing Clara back in time to boink past Danny silly.

Spoilers for Face The Raven and Hell Bent:

1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

Then Clara got herself killed by a mystical bird without issue. The Doctor later got the Time Lords to extract her from her timeline an instant before her death, but her biological functions are timelocked, so she can't get pregnant. This makes it seem impossible to ever bring Orson Pink into existence! However, Hila (the time traveler rescued during "Hide") must stay in 1974 because history says that she never returned from her time travel mission! I therefore propose that SHE be one of Orson Pink's ancestors, so as to fulfill the requirement that one of Orson's female ancestors be a time traveler, and the requirement that Clara be linked to Orson Pink's timeline. Clara is linked to Hila, so would be linked to any of Hila's descendants!

[TB]

Why are the Doctor and Clara using a candlelabra to light their way rather than a flashlight?

[Agamemnon]

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by Agamemnon
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series,
but it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something
somewhere where time was running at a different rate relative to the
observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own
(and its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)? Talking of the
alien/crooked man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added
little to the story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author
was trying to throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his
story. Clara was

Like I said in my review, they tried to cram in two parts worth of story
into just one part and they've obviously had to cut lots of stuff out
including the explanations for all of the above. There's also no time
available for plot twists so the can only do one stranded stories. The
strand about the monster should have been left out altogether. If they had 2
or 3, 45 minute episodes to tell the story then they could have done all of
these things and elaborated on the time experiment and linked it to the
presence of the monster. Maybe it was monster that created the bubble
universe and dragged in the time traveller or it was it's own universe that
was collapsing and it was trying to escape.

Post by Stephen Wilson
also quite inconsistent, as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS

Remember that the Cloister Bell rang in Logopolis because all the
interlinked universes that were keeping this one alive were breaking off.
Maybe that was one of them.

Post by Stephen Wilson
interface thingy in the form of Clara.. And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

[AC]

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by Agamemnon
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)? Talking of the alien/crooked
man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story. Clara was
also quite inconsistent, as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
interface thingy in the form of Clara.. And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about not
being told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon
feeding.

[Stephen Wilson]

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by Agamemnon
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)? Talking of the alien/crooked
man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story. Clara was
also quite inconsistent, as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
interface thingy in the form of Clara.. And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about not being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon feeding.

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though. I can
read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any problems. 45
minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over), tried to be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too much and
failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many others.

[AC]

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by Agamemnon
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)? Talking of the alien/crooked
man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story. Clara was
also quite inconsistent, as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
interface thingy in the form of Clara.. And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about not being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon feeding.

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though. I can
read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any problems. 45
minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over), tried to be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too much and
failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many others.

What do those books have to do with a 45min kids show? You think reading
them makes you clever? Something better than 8 million who like the TV
show?

Have to ask, how on earth did you watch the Dr Who crap from before this
reincarnation? It used to be dry, turgid, torture to watch. Padded out
to fill its format, and so cheap it was a joke. This show is finally
what it should be.

As for the plot point, the origins of the trapped woman and the aliens
is utterly irrelevant to the story being told. I mean, if everything
must be spoon fed to you, then why not complain that the two gohst
hunters weren't fully fleshed out? Why not 15mins on the history of the
house? How about some instruction manuals on the bloody TARDIS? This
goes on for ever.

Sounds to me like you are some old fart who cant cope with something
new, and goes out of his way to piss all over those who do like it.
Well, stop watching, fuck off, and be decent enough to allow others to
like it.

TBH, no one making this show give a shit about old farts. Just the 8
million watching it.

[Stephen Wilson]

Post by AC

Post by Stephen Wilson

This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about not being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon feeding.

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though. I can
read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any problems. 45
minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over), tried to be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too much and
failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many others.

What do those books have to do with a 45min kids show? You think reading
them makes you clever? Something better than 8 million who like the TV
show?

Those are science fiction books, witten by people who actually have an
inkling about real science. Dr Who is supposedly a scirnce fiction show, but
is generally written by people who don't have the first inkling about
science.

Post by AC
Have to ask, how on earth did you watch the Dr Who crap from before this
reincarnation? It used to be dry, turgid, torture to watch. Padded out to
fill its format, and so cheap it was a joke. This show is finally what it
should be.

Bollocks. If it was so cheap before, why did anyone watch it? This show is
not finally what it should be. It is the show Moffat wants it to be.

Post by AC
As for the plot point, the origins of the trapped woman and the aliens is
utterly irrelevant to the story being told. I mean, if everything must be
spoon fed to you, then why not complain that the two gohst hunters weren't
fully fleshed out? Why not 15mins on the history of the house? How about
some instruction manuals on the bloody TARDIS? This goes on for ever.

No it doesn't. If you can't work out the differences between things that
need an explanation for the plot to make any sense and those that don't -
well more fool you.

Post by AC
Sounds to me like you are some old fart who cant cope with something new,
and goes out of his way to piss all over those who do like it. Well, stop
watching, fuck off, and be decent enough to allow others to like it.

I'm not stoping anyone from watching it. And you can't stop anybody from
watching it. Theis newsgroup is here for people to express their opinions.
If you can't handle anything negative, bugger off elsewhere.

Post by AC
TBH, no one making this show give a shit about old farts. Just the 8
million watching it.

I don't think that's entirely true. If they really didn't give a shit, they
wouldn't be putting in things like ice warriors or crystals from Metebelis
3. People like Moffat and Gatiss are just as much old farts as I am.

[The Doctor]

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by AC

Post by Stephen Wilson

This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about not being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon feeding.

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though. I can
read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any problems. 45
minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over), tried to be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too much and
failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many others.

What do those books have to do with a 45min kids show? You think reading
them makes you clever? Something better than 8 million who like the TV
show?

Those are science fiction books, witten by people who actually have an
inkling about real science. Dr Who is supposedly a scirnce fiction show, but
is generally written by people who don't have the first inkling about
science.

Post by AC
Have to ask, how on earth did you watch the Dr Who crap from before this
reincarnation? It used to be dry, turgid, torture to watch. Padded out to
fill its format, and so cheap it was a joke. This show is finally what it
should be.

Bollocks. If it was so cheap before, why did anyone watch it? This show is
not finally what it should be. It is the show Moffat wants it to be.

Post by AC
As for the plot point, the origins of the trapped woman and the aliens is
utterly irrelevant to the story being told. I mean, if everything must be
spoon fed to you, then why not complain that the two gohst hunters weren't
fully fleshed out? Why not 15mins on the history of the house? How about
some instruction manuals on the bloody TARDIS? This goes on for ever.

No it doesn't. If you can't work out the differences between things that
need an explanation for the plot to make any sense and those that don't -
well more fool you.

Post by AC
Sounds to me like you are some old fart who cant cope with something new,
and goes out of his way to piss all over those who do like it. Well, stop
watching, fuck off, and be decent enough to allow others to like it.

I'm not stoping anyone from watching it. And you can't stop anybody from
watching it. Theis newsgroup is here for people to express their opinions.
If you can't handle anything negative, bugger off elsewhere.

Post by AC
TBH, no one making this show give a shit about old farts. Just the 8
million watching it.

I don't think that's entirely true. If they really didn't give a shit, they
wouldn't be putting in things like ice warriors or crystals from Metebelis
3. People like Moffat and Gatiss are just as much old farts as I am.

You stink a lot?

[Ross]

On Apr 22, 4:02 pm, "Stephen Wilson"

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by AC

Post by Stephen Wilson

This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about not being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon feeding.

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though. I can
read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any problems. 45
minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over), tried to be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too much and
failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many others.

What do those books have to do with a 45min kids show? You think reading
them makes you clever? Something better than 8 million who like the TV
show?

Those are science fiction books, witten by people who actually have an
inkling about real science. Dr Who is supposedly a scirnce fiction show, but
is generally written by people who don't have the first inkling about
science.

Doctor Who is not a science fiction show. The only times it's tried to
be one was in the 80s, and it went badly for everyone involved.

[The Doctor]

On Apr 22, 4:02=A0pm, "Stephen Wilson"
.

Post by Stephen Wilson

This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about not being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon feedin=

g.

Post by Stephen Wilson

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though. I c=

an

Post by Stephen Wilson

read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any problems. =

45

Post by Stephen Wilson

minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over), tried=

to

Post by Stephen Wilson

be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too much an=

d

Post by Stephen Wilson

failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many others.

What do those books have to do with a 45min kids show? You think readin=

g

Post by Stephen Wilson

them makes you clever? Something better than 8 million who like the TV
show?

Those are science fiction books, witten by people who actually have an
inkling about real science. Dr Who is supposedly a scirnce fiction show, =

but

Post by Stephen Wilson
is generally written by people who don't have the first inkling about
science.

Doctor Who is not a science fiction show. The only times it's tried to
be one was in the 80s, and it went badly for everyone involved.

Well since the 1960 Science Fiction show for the Family.

[Ross]

Post by The Doctor

On Apr 22, 4:02=A0pm, "Stephen Wilson"
.

Post by Stephen Wilson

This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about not being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon feedin=

g.

Post by Stephen Wilson

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though. I c=

an

Post by Stephen Wilson

read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any problems. =

45

Post by Stephen Wilson

minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over), tried=

to

Post by Stephen Wilson

be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too much an=

d

Post by Stephen Wilson

failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many others.

What do those books have to do with a 45min kids show? You think readin=

g

Post by Stephen Wilson

them makes you clever? Something better than 8 million who like the TV
show?

Those are science fiction books, witten by people who actually have an
inkling about real science. Dr Who is supposedly a scirnce fiction show, =

but

Post by Stephen Wilson
is generally written by people who don't have the first inkling about
science.

Doctor Who is not a science fiction show. The only times it's tried to
be one was in the 80s, and it went badly for everyone involved.

Well since the 1960 Science Fiction show for the Family.
--
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 amnd 53 on Atheism
B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!

No, Yads. In the 60s and 70s, Doctor Who was an anthology drama that
visited many different genres. It had Science Fiction *elements* to
it, but it was not primarily a science fiction series. In the early
days, they were often Period Costume Drama, mystery, or action-
adventure. In the 70s, they did a lot of basically spy-action-
thrillers and gothic horror. In the late 70s, JNT got it into his
head that the show had always meant to be a science fiction show, and
promptly ran it off the rails trying to force it to be one.

[The Doctor]

com>,

Post by The Doctor

On Apr 22, 4:02=3DA0pm, "Stephen Wilson"

7..=3D

Post by The Doctor

.

Post by Stephen Wilson

This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about n=

ot

Post by The Doctor

Post by Stephen Wilson

being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon fee=

din=3D

Post by The Doctor

g.

Post by Stephen Wilson

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though. =

I c=3D

Post by The Doctor

an

Post by Stephen Wilson

read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any problem=

s. =3D

Post by The Doctor

45

Post by Stephen Wilson

minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over), tr=

ied=3D

Post by The Doctor

to

Post by Stephen Wilson

be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too much=

an=3D

Post by The Doctor

d

Post by Stephen Wilson

failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many other=

s.

Post by The Doctor

Post by Stephen Wilson

What do those books have to do with a 45min kids show? You think rea=

din=3D

Post by The Doctor

g

Post by Stephen Wilson

them makes you clever? Something better than 8 million who like the =

TV

Post by The Doctor

Post by Stephen Wilson

show?

Those are science fiction books, witten by people who actually have an
inkling about real science. Dr Who is supposedly a scirnce fiction sho=

w, =3D

Post by The Doctor

but

Post by Stephen Wilson
is generally written by people who don't have the first inkling about
science.

Doctor Who is not a science fiction show. The only times it's tried to
be one was in the 80s, and it went badly for everyone involved.

Well since the 1960 Science Fiction show for the Family.
--

2k.ab.ca

Post by The Doctor
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist ri=

sing!http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k=A0Look at Psalms 14 amnd 53 on Athe=
ism

Post by The Doctor
B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!

No, Yads. In the 60s and 70s, Doctor Who was an anthology drama that
visited many different genres. It had Science Fiction *elements* to
it, but it was not primarily a science fiction series. In the early
days, they were often Period Costume Drama, mystery, or action-
adventure. In the 70s, they did a lot of basically spy-action-
thrillers and gothic horror. In the late 70s, JNT got it into his
head that the show had always meant to be a science fiction show, and
promptly ran it off the rails trying to force it to be one.

I might have to disagree with you.
I wonder what Verity has to say?

[Agamemnon]

In article

On Apr 22, 4:02=A0pm, "Stephen Wilson"
.

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by AC
This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about
not
being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon feedin=

g.

Post by Stephen Wilson

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though. I c=

an

Post by Stephen Wilson

read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any problems. =

45

Post by Stephen Wilson

minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over), tried=

to

Post by Stephen Wilson

be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too much an=

d

Post by Stephen Wilson

failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many others.

What do those books have to do with a 45min kids show? You think readin=

g

Post by Stephen Wilson

them makes you clever? Something better than 8 million who like the TV
show?

Those are science fiction books, witten by people who actually have an
inkling about real science. Dr Who is supposedly a scirnce fiction show, =

but

Post by Stephen Wilson
is generally written by people who don't have the first inkling about
science.

Doctor Who is not a science fiction show. The only times it's tried to
be one was in the 80s, and it went badly for everyone involved.

Well since the 1960 Science Fiction show for the Family.
--
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist
rising!http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 amnd 53 on
Atheism
B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!

<<<No, Yads. In the 60s and 70s, Doctor Who was an anthology drama that
visited many different genres. It had Science Fiction *elements* to
it, but it was not primarily a science fiction series. In the early
days, they were often Period Costume Drama, mystery, or action-
adventure. In the 70s, they did a lot of basically spy-action-
thrillers and gothic horror. In the late 70s, JNT got it into his
head that the show had always meant to be a science fiction show, and
promptly ran it off the rails trying to force it to be one.>>>

You mean like The Leisure Hive? Meglos? Full Circle? State of Decay?
Warriors Gate? The Keeper of Traken? Logopolis? Castrovalva? Four to
Doomsday? Kinda?The Visitation? Black Orchid? Earth Shock? Time Flight? Ark
of Infinity, Snake Dance? ...

[The Doctor]

Post by Agamemnon

In article

On Apr 22, 4:02=A0pm, "Stephen Wilson"
.

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by AC
This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about
not
being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon feedin=

g.

Post by Stephen Wilson

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though. I c=

an

Post by Stephen Wilson

read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any problems. =

45

Post by Stephen Wilson

minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over), tried=

to

Post by Stephen Wilson

be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too much an=

d

Post by Stephen Wilson

failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many others.

What do those books have to do with a 45min kids show? You think readin=

g

Post by Stephen Wilson

them makes you clever? Something better than 8 million who like the TV
show?

Those are science fiction books, witten by people who actually have an
inkling about real science. Dr Who is supposedly a scirnce fiction show, =

but

Post by Stephen Wilson
is generally written by people who don't have the first inkling about
science.

Doctor Who is not a science fiction show. The only times it's tried to
be one was in the 80s, and it went badly for everyone involved.

Well since the 1960 Science Fiction show for the Family.
--
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist
rising!http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 amnd 53 on
Atheism
B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!

<<<No, Yads. In the 60s and 70s, Doctor Who was an anthology drama that
visited many different genres. It had Science Fiction *elements* to
it, but it was not primarily a science fiction series. In the early
days, they were often Period Costume Drama, mystery, or action-
adventure. In the 70s, they did a lot of basically spy-action-
thrillers and gothic horror. In the late 70s, JNT got it into his
head that the show had always meant to be a science fiction show, and
promptly ran it off the rails trying to force it to be one.>>>
You mean like The Leisure Hive? Meglos? Full Circle? State of Decay?
Warriors Gate? The Keeper of Traken? Logopolis? Castrovalva? Four to
Doomsday? Kinda?The Visitation? Black Orchid? Earth Shock? Time Flight? Ark
of Infinity, Snake Dance? ...

Good point Ag!!

[Ross]

Post by Agamemnon

In article

On Apr 22, 4:02=A0pm, "Stephen Wilson"
.

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by AC
This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about
not
being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon feedin=

g.

Post by Stephen Wilson

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though. I c=

an

Post by Stephen Wilson

read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any problems. =

45

Post by Stephen Wilson

minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over), tried=

to

Post by Stephen Wilson

be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too much an=

d

Post by Stephen Wilson

failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many others.

What do those books have to do with a 45min kids show? You think readin=

g

Post by Stephen Wilson

them makes you clever? Something better than 8 million who like the TV
show?

Those are science fiction books, witten by people who actually have an
inkling about real science. Dr Who is supposedly a scirnce fiction show, =

but

Post by Stephen Wilson
is generally written by people who don't have the first inkling about
science.

Doctor Who is not a science fiction show. The only times it's tried to
be one was in the 80s, and it went badly for everyone involved.

Well since the 1960 Science Fiction show for the Family.
--
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist
rising!http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2kLook at Psalms 14 amnd 53 on
Atheism
B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!

<<<No, Yads. In the 60s and 70s, Doctor Who was an anthology drama that
visited many different genres. It had Science Fiction *elements* to
it, but it was not primarily a science fiction series. In the early
days, they were often Period Costume Drama, mystery, or action-
adventure. In the 70s, they did a lot of basically spy-action-
thrillers and gothic horror.  In the late 70s, JNT got it into his
head that the show had always meant to be a science fiction show, and
promptly ran it off the rails trying to force it to be one.>>>
You mean like The Leisure Hive? Meglos? Full Circle? State of Decay?
Warriors Gate? The Keeper of Traken? Logopolis? Castrovalva? Four to
Doomsday? Kinda?The Visitation? Black Orchid? Earth Shock? Time Flight? Ark
of Infinity, Snake Dance?  ...

Did you seriously put Ark of Infinity and Meglos on a list meant to
shame me into saying that tryign to force Doctor WHo into a Sci Fi
mold was a terrible idea?

[The Doctor]

Post by Ross

Post by Agamemnon

In article

On Apr 22, 4:02=3DA0pm, "Stephen Wilson"
.

Post by AC

Post by AC
This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about
not
being
told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon
feedin=3D

g.

Post by AC

Each to their own. You're obviously a better man than I am though=

. I

Post by Agamemnon

Post by AC

c=3D

an

Post by AC

read Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, etc. without having any
problems. =3D

45

Post by AC

minutes of Hide - well it tried to be a love story (twice over),
tried=3D

to

Post by AC

be
a ghost story and tried to be science fiction. Tried to do too mu=

ch

Post by Agamemnon

Post by AC

an=3D

d

Post by AC

failed for me on all counts, but obviously succeeded for many others.

What do those books have to do with a 45min kids show? You think
readin=3D

g

Post by AC
them makes you clever? Something better than 8 million who like th=

e

Post by Agamemnon

Post by AC
TV
show?

Those are science fiction books, witten by people who actually have =

an

Post by Agamemnon

inkling about real science. Dr Who is supposedly a scirnce fiction
show, =3D

but

is generally written by people who don't have the first inkling abou=

t

Post by Agamemnon

science.

Doctor Who is not a science fiction show. The only times it's tried to
be one was in the 80s, and it went badly for everyone involved.

Well since the 1960 Science Fiction show for the Family.
--
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist
rising!http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2kLook at Psalms 14 amnd 53 on
Atheism
B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!

<<<No, Yads. In the 60s and 70s, Doctor Who was an anthology drama that
visited many different genres. It had Science Fiction *elements* to
it, but it was not primarily a science fiction series. In the early
days, they were often Period Costume Drama, mystery, or action-
adventure. In the 70s, they did a lot of basically spy-action-
thrillers and gothic horror. =A0In the late 70s, JNT got it into his
head that the show had always meant to be a science fiction show, and
promptly ran it off the rails trying to force it to be one.>>>
You mean like The Leisure Hive? Meglos? Full Circle? State of Decay?
Warriors Gate? The Keeper of Traken? Logopolis? Castrovalva? Four to
Doomsday? Kinda?The Visitation? Black Orchid? Earth Shock? Time Flight? A=

rk

Post by Agamemnon
of Infinity, Snake Dance? =A0...

Did you seriously put Ark of Infinity and Meglos on a list meant to
shame me into saying that tryign to force Doctor WHo into a Sci Fi
mold was a terrible idea?

Make a guess?

[The Doctor]

Post by AC

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by Agamemnon
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)? Talking of the alien/crooked
man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story. Clara was
also quite inconsistent, as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
interface thingy in the form of Clara.. And it felt a bit like a proper
ending got edited out by mistake.

being told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon
feeding.
--
AC

Typical satisfaction level.

[¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 17:45:32 +0100, in rec.arts.drwho AC <***@xxx.xxx> wrote:

¡Stephen Wilson wrote:
¡> "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
¡> news:***@eclipse.net.uk...
¡>>
¡>> The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
¡>> character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
¡>> it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
¡>> where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
¡>>
¡>> Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
¡>> most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
¡>>
¡>> 10/10
¡>>
¡>> Looking forward to next week's story.
¡>
¡> I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
¡> opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
¡> Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
¡> did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
¡> was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
¡> its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)? Talking of the alien/crooked
¡> man/whatever - it was a rather unnecessary strand that added little to the
¡> story, was under-developed and simply felt like the author was trying to
¡> throw in everything including the kitchen sink into his story. Clara was
¡> also quite inconsistent, as was the use of the cloister bell and the TARDIS
¡> interface thingy in the form of Clara.. And it felt a bit like a proper
¡> ending got edited out by mistake.
¡>
¡>
¡
¡This is what fucks me off about fans. They either bleat on about not
¡being told enough, and when the writer do, its suddenly called spoon
¡feeding.
¡
¡--
¡AC

My issue with the nutter fans is they like the brand, and don't give a shit about consistancy in
the writing. It's not like they called it a restarted series they convince us they took over from Hartnel et al.....
Well try to. They like Dr Who, but they don't know shit about it from beginning to end, the nuttier the less they know
I rarely care until the brand nutters like you show up. Then it awakens my love of what I watched through my
life. I understood temporal theory in Kindergarden, so it was special to me. Plus always liked dressing odd.

[TB]

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by Agamemnon
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own? Why
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)?

So there was a large grey crooked man alien on Earth since prehistory, and one of the opposite sex in the pocket universe? Given the differences in time rates, why hadn't the one on Earth died long ago?

[TB]

Post by Stephen Wilson

Post by Agamemnon
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I can't be bothered to write a review. But basically another dud in my
opinion. Same guy that wrote Rings of Akhaten. Same lapses in coherence.
Lots of "plot" points left completely unanswered. Again. For instance: How
did Hila get into the pocket dimension? Why was she there on her own?

Hila is not the only time traveler to go on a solo mission! Orson Pink also went on a solo mission! Perhaps whoever sponsored Hila's mission only had enough money for ONE time traveler!

Why

Post by Stephen Wilson
was there an alien (or whatever it was meant to be) on earth on its own (and
its partner in the pocket dimension with Hila)?

Given the time flow differential (a lot slower in the pocket universe), shouldn't the Earth monster have long since died of old age? (The Doctor photographed Hila over a period of several billion years).

[Tim Bruening]

The Doctor photographs Hilda in the pocket dimension in Earth's far future, then rescues her from tthe pocket dimension in 1974, bringing her to the world of 1974. How can the Doctor photograph Hilda in Earth's far future when she will leave the pocket dimension in 1974?

[¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian]

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 20:43:18 +0100, in rec.arts.drwho "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

¡This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
¡the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
¡style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.

He's a babbler and a talker. 2nd Doctor "I keep my eyes open and mouth shut." (Tomb of the Cybermen).

¡There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd find
¡in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
¡oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
¡Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown and
¡being mysterious.

Bit odd the thing was flown while wires were comming out of it, and it's some part of the eye of Harmony something supposedly destroyed like
how he goes anywhere.

¡Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in only
¡45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
¡Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.
¡
¡As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
¡multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
¡viewer to invent.
¡
¡Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
¡going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition of
¡his companion, a la TRF/TAP.
¡
¡The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
¡character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
¡it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
¡where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.

Don't confuse romanticising with philosophising.

¡Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
¡most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.

Since when?

¡10/10
¡
¡Looking forward to next week's story.
¡
¡

Oh yes we can be reminded of the centre of the TARDIS, you know they thing that killed the master, oh right some magician brought him back to life.
Intellectual property in the hands of the intellectually challenged.

[The Doctor]

Post by ¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian
¡This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
¡the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
¡style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.
He's a babbler and a talker. 2nd Doctor "I keep my eyes open and mouth shut." (Tomb of the Cybermen).
¡There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd find
¡in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
¡oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
¡Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown and
¡being mysterious.
Bit odd the thing was flown while wires were comming out of it, and it's some part of the eye of Harmony something supposedly destroyed like
how he goes anywhere.
¡Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in only
¡45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
¡Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.
¡
¡As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
¡multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
¡viewer to invent.
¡
¡Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
¡going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition of
¡his companion, a la TRF/TAP.
¡
¡The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
¡character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
¡it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
¡where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Don't confuse romanticising with philosophising.
¡Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
¡most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
Since when?
¡10/10
¡
¡Looking forward to next week's story.
¡
¡
Oh yes we can be reminded of the centre of the TARDIS, you know they thing that killed the master, oh right some magician brought him back to life.
Intellectual property in the hands of the intellectually challenged.

REpublicans are intellectually challenged. Assertion!!

[¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:43:50 +0000 (UTC), in rec.arts.drwho ***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:

¡In article <***@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
¡¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian <***@SeAL.NAVY.buggeredbyNSA-NSC.int.nwo.gov> wrote:
¡>On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 20:43:18 +0100, in rec.arts.drwho "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
¡>
¡>¡This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
¡>¡the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
¡>¡style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.
¡>
¡>He's a babbler and a talker. 2nd Doctor "I keep my eyes open and mouth shut." (Tomb of the Cybermen).
¡>
¡>¡There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd find
¡>¡in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
¡>¡oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
¡>¡Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown and
¡>¡being mysterious.
¡>
¡>Bit odd the thing was flown while wires were comming out of it, and it's some part of the eye of Harmony something supposedly destroyed like
¡>how he goes anywhere.
¡>
¡>¡Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in only
¡>¡45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
¡>¡Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.
¡>¡
¡>¡As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
¡>¡multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
¡>¡viewer to invent.
¡>¡
¡>¡Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
¡>¡going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition of
¡>¡his companion, a la TRF/TAP.
¡>¡
¡>¡The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
¡>¡character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
¡>¡it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
¡>¡where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
¡>
¡>Don't confuse romanticising with philosophising.
¡>
¡>¡Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
¡>¡most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
¡>
¡>Since when?
¡>
¡>¡10/10
¡>¡
¡>¡Looking forward to next week's story.
¡>¡
¡>¡
¡>
¡>Oh yes we can be reminded of the centre of the TARDIS, you know they thing that killed the master, oh right some magician brought him back to life.
¡>Intellectual property in the hands of the intellectually challenged.
¡>
¡>
¡
¡REpublicans are intellectually challenged. Assertion!!

Nationalist and Socialist Republicans. Eww and Anarcho Syndaclists.

Federalist Republicans are thinkers. Nationalist Pat Henry made a good speech, Orator.

Franklin
Adams
Adams
Madison
Jay
Hamilton
Washington
Ross
Ross
et al....
Very Clever.

Oh then there is Voltaire... Locke granted he prefered Orange Monarchy, but didn't like monarchy in general.

Name bright monarchists?

Embrace some classic liberalism Valyard (this must be "the doctor" your handle reps),

[The Doctor]

Post by ¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian
¡>
¡>¡This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
¡>¡the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
¡>¡style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.
¡>
¡>He's a babbler and a talker. 2nd Doctor "I keep my eyes open and mouth shut." (Tomb of the Cybermen).
¡>
¡>¡There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd find
¡>¡in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
¡>¡oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
¡>¡Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown and
¡>¡being mysterious.
¡>
¡>Bit odd the thing was flown while wires were comming out of it, and it's some part of the eye of Harmony something supposedly destroyed like
¡>how he goes anywhere.
¡>
¡>¡Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in only
¡>¡45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
¡>¡Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.
¡>¡
¡>¡As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
¡>¡multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
¡>¡viewer to invent.
¡>¡
¡>¡Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
¡>¡going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition of
¡>¡his companion, a la TRF/TAP.
¡>¡
¡>¡The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
¡>¡character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
¡>¡it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
¡>¡where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
¡>
¡>Don't confuse romanticising with philosophising.
¡>
¡>¡Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
¡>¡most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
¡>
¡>Since when?
¡>
¡>¡10/10
¡>¡
¡>¡Looking forward to next week's story.
¡>¡
¡>¡
¡>
¡>Oh yes we can be reminded of the centre of the TARDIS, you know they thing that killed the master, oh right some magician brought him back to life.
¡>Intellectual property in the hands of the intellectually challenged.
¡>
¡>
¡
¡REpublicans are intellectually challenged. Assertion!!
Nationalist and Socialist Republicans. Eww and Anarcho Syndaclists.
Federalist Republicans are thinkers. Nationalist Pat Henry made a good speech, Orator.
Franklin
Adams
Adams
Madison
Jay
Hamilton
Washington
Ross
Ross
et al....
Very Clever.

All of the above Freemasons.

Post by ¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian
Oh then there is Voltaire... Locke granted he prefered Orange Monarchy, but didn't like monarchy in general.
Name bright monarchists?

King James I

Post by ¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian
Embrace some classic liberalism Valyard (this must be "the doctor" your handle reps),

[¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 00:31:08 +0000 (UTC), in rec.arts.drwho ***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:

¡In article <***@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
¡¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian <***@SeAL.NAVY.buggeredbyNSA-NSC.int.nwo.gov> wrote:
¡>On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:43:50 +0000 (UTC), in rec.arts.drwho ***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
¡>
¡>¡In article <***@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
¡>¡¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian <***@SeAL.NAVY.buggeredbyNSA-NSC.int.nwo.gov> wrote:
¡>¡>On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 20:43:18 +0100, in rec.arts.drwho "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
¡>¡>¡the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
¡>¡>¡style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>He's a babbler and a talker. 2nd Doctor "I keep my eyes open and mouth shut." (Tomb of the Cybermen).
¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd find
¡>¡>¡in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
¡>¡>¡oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
¡>¡>¡Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown and
¡>¡>¡being mysterious.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Bit odd the thing was flown while wires were comming out of it, and it's some part of the eye of Harmony something supposedly destroyed like
¡>¡>how he goes anywhere.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in only
¡>¡>¡45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
¡>¡>¡Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
¡>¡>¡multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
¡>¡>¡viewer to invent.
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
¡>¡>¡going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition of
¡>¡>¡his companion, a la TRF/TAP.
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
¡>¡>¡character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
¡>¡>¡it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
¡>¡>¡where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Don't confuse romanticising with philosophising.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
¡>¡>¡most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Since when?
¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡10/10
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡Looking forward to next week's story.
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Oh yes we can be reminded of the centre of the TARDIS, you know they thing that killed the master, oh right some magician brought him back to life.
¡>¡>Intellectual property in the hands of the intellectually challenged.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>
¡>¡
¡>¡REpublicans are intellectually challenged. Assertion!!
¡>
¡>Nationalist and Socialist Republicans. Eww and Anarcho Syndaclists.
¡>
¡>Federalist Republicans are thinkers. Nationalist Pat Henry made a good speech, Orator.
¡>
¡>Franklin
¡>Adams
¡>Adams
¡>Madison
¡>Jay
¡>Hamilton
¡>Washington
¡>Ross
¡>Ross
¡>et al....
¡>Very Clever.

Nonsense, especially Betsy, a woman, They laid claim to many of them to save face years after death.

¡All of the above Freemasons.
¡
¡>
¡>Oh then there is Voltaire... Locke granted he prefered Orange Monarchy, but didn't like monarchy in general.
¡>
¡>Name bright monarchists?
¡
¡King James I
¡
¡>
¡>Embrace some classic liberalism Valyard (this must be "the doctor" your handle reps),
¡>
¡>
¡
¡
¡--
¡Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
¡God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
¡http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 amnd 53 on Atheism
¡B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!

[The Doctor]

Post by ¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian
¡>
¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
¡>¡>¡the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
¡>¡>¡style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>He's a babbler and a talker. 2nd Doctor "I keep my eyes open and mouth shut." (Tomb of the Cybermen).
¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd find
¡>¡>¡in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
¡>¡>¡oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
¡>¡>¡Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown and
¡>¡>¡being mysterious.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Bit odd the thing was flown while wires were comming out of it, and it's some part of the eye of Harmony something supposedly destroyed like
¡>¡>how he goes anywhere.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in only
¡>¡>¡45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
¡>¡>¡Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
¡>¡>¡multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
¡>¡>¡viewer to invent.
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
¡>¡>¡going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition of
¡>¡>¡his companion, a la TRF/TAP.
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
¡>¡>¡character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
¡>¡>¡it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
¡>¡>¡where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Don't confuse romanticising with philosophising.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
¡>¡>¡most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Since when?
¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡10/10
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡Looking forward to next week's story.
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Oh yes we can be reminded of the centre of the TARDIS, you know they thing that killed the master, oh right some magician brought him back to life.
¡>¡>Intellectual property in the hands of the intellectually challenged.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>
¡>¡
¡>¡REpublicans are intellectually challenged. Assertion!!
¡>
¡>Nationalist and Socialist Republicans. Eww and Anarcho Syndaclists.
¡>
¡>Federalist Republicans are thinkers. Nationalist Pat Henry made a good speech, Orator.
¡>
¡>Franklin
¡>Adams
¡>Adams
¡>Madison
¡>Jay
¡>Hamilton
¡>Washington
¡>Ross
¡>Ross
¡>et al....
¡>Very Clever.
Nonsense, especially Betsy, a woman, They laid claim to many of them to save face years after death.
¡All of the above Freemasons.

Still have not adress the Freemason links in Republicanism.

Post by ¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian
¡
¡>
¡>Oh then there is Voltaire... Locke granted he prefered Orange Monarchy, but didn't like monarchy in general.
¡>
¡>Name bright monarchists?
¡
¡King James I
¡
¡>
¡>Embrace some classic liberalism Valyard (this must be "the doctor" your handle reps),
¡>
¡>
¡
¡
¡--
¡God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
¡http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 amnd 53 on Atheism
¡B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!

[Stephen Wilson]

Post by The Doctor

Post by ¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian
Nonsense, especially Betsy, a woman, They laid claim to many of them to
save face years after death.
¡All of the above Freemasons.

Still have not adress the Freemason links in Republicanism.

Why do you need it? Planning on writing a letter to them?

[¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian]

x-Body
On Sun, 12 May 2013 11:37:43 +0000 (UTC), in rec.arts.drwho ***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:

¡In article <***@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
¡¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian <***@SeAL.NAVY.buggeredbyNSA-NSC.int.nwo.gov> wrote:
¡>On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 00:31:08 +0000 (UTC), in rec.arts.drwho ***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
¡>
¡>¡In article <***@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
¡>¡¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian <***@SeAL.NAVY.buggeredbyNSA-NSC.int.nwo.gov> wrote:
¡>¡>On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:43:50 +0000 (UTC), in rec.arts.drwho ***@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡In article <***@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
¡>¡>¡¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian <***@SeAL.NAVY.buggeredbyNSA-NSC.int.nwo.gov> wrote:
¡>¡>¡>On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 20:43:18 +0100, in rec.arts.drwho "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡>¡This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
¡>¡>¡>¡the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
¡>¡>¡>¡style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡>He's a babbler and a talker. 2nd Doctor "I keep my eyes open and mouth shut." (Tomb of the Cybermen).
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡>¡There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd find
¡>¡>¡>¡in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
¡>¡>¡>¡oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
¡>¡>¡>¡Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown and
¡>¡>¡>¡being mysterious.
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡>Bit odd the thing was flown while wires were comming out of it, and it's some part of the eye of Harmony something supposedly destroyed like
¡>¡>¡>how he goes anywhere.
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡>¡Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in only
¡>¡>¡>¡45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
¡>¡>¡>¡Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.
¡>¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡>¡As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
¡>¡>¡>¡multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
¡>¡>¡>¡viewer to invent.
¡>¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡>¡Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
¡>¡>¡>¡going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition of
¡>¡>¡>¡his companion, a la TRF/TAP.
¡>¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡>¡The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
¡>¡>¡>¡character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
¡>¡>¡>¡it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
¡>¡>¡>¡where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡>Don't confuse romanticising with philosophising.
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡>¡Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
¡>¡>¡>¡most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡>Since when?
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡>¡10/10
¡>¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡>¡Looking forward to next week's story.
¡>¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡>Oh yes we can be reminded of the centre of the TARDIS, you know they thing that killed the master, oh right some magician brought him back to life.
¡>¡>¡>Intellectual property in the hands of the intellectually challenged.
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡>
¡>¡>¡
¡>¡>¡REpublicans are intellectually challenged. Assertion!!
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Nationalist and Socialist Republicans. Eww and Anarcho Syndaclists.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Federalist Republicans are thinkers. Nationalist Pat Henry made a good speech, Orator.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Franklin
¡>¡>Adams
¡>¡>Adams
¡>¡>Madison
¡>¡>Jay
¡>¡>Hamilton
¡>¡>Washington
¡>¡>Ross
¡>¡>Ross
¡>¡>et al....
¡>¡>Very Clever.
¡>
¡>Nonsense, especially Betsy, a woman, They laid claim to many of them to save face years after death.
¡>
¡>¡All of the above Freemasons.
¡
¡
¡Still have not adress the Freemason links in Republicanism.

They embrace the Nationalist version gained in France and supported by Pat Henry (popular vote President) and now in Russia,
not the Federalism. The embrace Constitutional Monarchy and Soviet/People's forms too..

¡>¡
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Oh then there is Voltaire... Locke granted he prefered Orange Monarchy, but didn't like monarchy in general.
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Name bright monarchists?
¡>¡
¡>¡King James I
¡>¡
¡>¡>
¡>¡>Embrace some classic liberalism Valyard (this must be "the doctor" your handle reps),
¡>¡>
¡>¡>
¡>¡
¡>¡
¡>¡--
¡>¡Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
¡>¡God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
¡>¡http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 amnd 53 on Atheism
¡>¡B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!
¡>
¡
¡
¡--
¡Member - Liberal International This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
¡God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
¡http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
¡B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!

[The Doctor]

Post by ¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian
x-Body
?>
?>?>
?>?>?>
?>?>?>?This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
?>?>?>?the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
?>?>?>?style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.
?>?>?>
?>?>?>He's a babbler and a talker. 2nd Doctor "I keep my eyes open and mouth shut." (Tomb of the Cybermen).
?>?>?>
?>?>?>?There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd find
?>?>?>?in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
?>?>?>?oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
?>?>?>?Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown and
?>?>?>?being mysterious.
?>?>?>
?>?>?>Bit odd the thing was flown while wires were comming out of it, and it's some part of the eye of Harmony something supposedly destroyed like
?>?>?>how he goes anywhere.
?>?>?>
?>?>?>?Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in only
?>?>?>?45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
?>?>?>?Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.
?>?>?>?
?>?>?>?As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
?>?>?>?multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
?>?>?>?viewer to invent.
?>?>?>?
?>?>?>?Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
?>?>?>?going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition of
?>?>?>?his companion, a la TRF/TAP.
?>?>?>?
?>?>?>?The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
?>?>?>?character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
?>?>?>?it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
?>?>?>?where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
?>?>?>
?>?>?>Don't confuse romanticising with philosophising.
?>?>?>
?>?>?>?Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
?>?>?>?most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
?>?>?>
?>?>?>Since when?
?>?>?>
?>?>?>?10/10
?>?>?>?
?>?>?>?Looking forward to next week's story.
?>?>?>?
?>?>?>?
?>?>?>
?>?>?>Oh yes we can be reminded of the centre of the TARDIS, you know they thing that killed the master, oh right some magician brought him back to life.
?>?>?>Intellectual property in the hands of the intellectually challenged.
?>?>?>
?>?>?>
?>?>?
?>?>?REpublicans are intellectually challenged. Assertion!!
?>?>
?>?>Nationalist and Socialist Republicans. Eww and Anarcho Syndaclists.
?>?>
?>?>Federalist Republicans are thinkers. Nationalist Pat Henry made a good speech, Orator.
?>?>
?>?>Franklin
?>?>Adams
?>?>Adams
?>?>Madison
?>?>Jay
?>?>Hamilton
?>?>Washington
?>?>Ross
?>?>Ross
?>?>et al....
?>?>Very Clever.
?>
?>Nonsense, especially Betsy, a woman, They laid claim to many of them to save face years after death.
?>
?>?All of the above Freemasons.
?
?
?Still have not adress the Freemason links in Republicanism.
They embrace the Nationalist version gained in France and supported by Pat Henry (popular vote President) and now in Russia,
not the Federalism. The embrace Constitutional Monarchy and Soviet/People's forms too..

The Fraternity / Liberty line arises from FreeMasonry a la Jesuits

Post by ¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian
?>?
?>?>
?>?>Oh then there is Voltaire... Locke granted he prefered Orange Monarchy, but didn't like monarchy in general.
?>?>
?>?>Name bright monarchists?
?>?
?>?King James I
?>?
?>?>
?>?>Embrace some classic liberalism Valyard (this must be "the doctor" your handle reps),
?>?>
?>?>
?>?
?>?
?>?--
?>?God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
?>?http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 amnd 53 on Atheism
?>?B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!
?>
?
?
?--
?God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
?http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
?B.C. do not condemn your province - vote Liberal!

[Malygris]

Post by Agamemnon
This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.
There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd
find in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown
and being mysterious.
Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in
only 45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.
As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
viewer to invent.
Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition
of his companion, a la TRF/TAP.
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.
Nevertheless this is the best series since Doctor Who was revived and the
most reminiscent of classic Doctor Who.
10/10
Looking forward to next week's story.

I have to agree on all points ;-)

I really enjoyed this half season so far, now if only they had done all the
stories as two parters... Never since the restart did I miss the old format
more than in the last weeks. I suppose the classic four(+) part seriels
would not work with todays audience, but imagine what could have been done
with this stories with a bit more time.

I just hope with this start I'm not gonna be dissapointed with the season
finale. With each story my expectations keep rising.

[Ross]

Post by Agamemnon
This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.

Really? I thought it was more obviously inspired by the Hinchcliffe
era,

[The Doctor]

Post by Ross

This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even withou=

t

the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.

Really? I thought it was more obviously inspired by the Hinchcliffe
era,

Inspired but it works.

[¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester AKA The Voltairian]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 04:26:45 -0700 (PDT), in rec.arts.drwho Ross <***@trenchcoatsoft.com> wrote:

¡On Apr 20, 3:43=A0pm, "Agamemnon" <***@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
¡> This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even withou=
¡t
¡> the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
¡> style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.
¡>
¡
¡Really? I thought it was more obviously inspired by the Hinchcliffe
¡era,

Who?

[Tim Bruening]

Why did the Doctor and Clara carry candles during their investigations rather than a flashlight?

[The Doctor]

Post by Tim Bruening
Why did the Doctor and Clara carry candles during their investigations
rather than a flashlight?

Batteries were not charged up?

[TB]

The Doctor discovers that a pioneer time traveler is trapped in a pocket universe where time moves slowly. He generates a wormhole to that universe with the help of a psychic, ties rope to himself, and dives in. When he arrives, why does he remove the rope?

[TB]

Post by Agamemnon
This episode felt in part in the style of a Jon Pertwee story even without
the references to the Blue Crystal from Metabilis 3, and in part in the
style of Patrick Troughton, except done in 45 minutes.
There was the Doctor creating psychic equipment out of something you'd find
in your kitchen or attic, there was a whole load of tape recorders,
oscilloscopes, signal generators, cameras, plotters and the like, and the
Doctor prancing around, drawing stuff on the floor, acting like a clown and
being mysterious.
Obviously the new solution to the problem of the stories not working in only
45 minutes is to end every story on a minor cliff-hanger a la Patrick
Troughton but let the viewer figure out how it's resolved.
As with last week, this felt like it was the opening two episodes of a
multi-parter all compressed into one and the next two episodes left to the
viewer to invent.
Also the current story arc blueprint now includes the Doctor specifically
going on an adventure to find out something specific about the condition of
his companion, a la TRF/TAP.
The story was good and included the philosophising and plot and true
character related discussion that was missing from all the RTD series, but
it was pretty obvious that the ghost was somebody or something somewhere
where time was running at a different rate relative to the observer.

So time was slow in the pocket universe. Wouldn't that mean that the Doctor's time would be moving slowly while he was in the pocket universe, and not get out until everyone at the mansion is dead of old age?

[Timothy Bruening]

How was Clara able to pilot the TARDIS well enough to fly through the pocket universe to scoop up the Doctor, then at the end the Doctor & the monster?