Discussion:
OT: About America in this NG
(too old to reply)
petrus bitbyter
2012-11-22 13:49:54 UTC
Permalink
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.



Although they did not invent the computer they have a typical binary way of
ordering their society. There are two groups, the white and the black. The
whites, often called Caucasians, have their roots mainly in western Europe.
All others are considered to be black. Some subgroup off blacks named
themselves Afro-Americans although a lot of them may not even know what
Africa is or where to find it. But even if they find it out some day, I
doubt they want to go and live there. One real Afro-American is running
around at the moment. He is a real Afro-American because he has a black
African father and a white American mother. He is, of course, considered to
be black. He has to do something in politics but nobody, even he himself,
seems to know exactly what he does.



Speaking politics, there are also two groups. The leftist weenies and the
rightist braves. The leftist spent the money the rightist earn - or so they
say. As America is said to be a democracy, the main peoples representative,
the president is chosen by an honest voting system: One man one vote.
Nevertheless the candidate with lesser votes can win the elections and
become the president.



In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
though he seems to be back down under at the moment.



So far what I learned from reading but correct me if I'm wrong J One day I
hope to cross the pond and have a look by myself.



petrus bitbyter
John Larkin
2012-11-22 15:31:44 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:49:54 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
Post by petrus bitbyter
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
Although they did not invent the computer they have a typical binary way of
ordering their society. There are two groups, the white and the black. The
whites, often called Caucasians, have their roots mainly in western Europe.
All others are considered to be black. Some subgroup off blacks named
themselves Afro-Americans although a lot of them may not even know what
Africa is or where to find it. But even if they find it out some day, I
doubt they want to go and live there. One real Afro-American is running
around at the moment. He is a real Afro-American because he has a black
African father and a white American mother. He is, of course, considered to
be black. He has to do something in politics but nobody, even he himself,
seems to know exactly what he does.
Speaking politics, there are also two groups. The leftist weenies and the
rightist braves. The leftist spent the money the rightist earn - or so they
say. As America is said to be a democracy, the main peoples representative,
the president is chosen by an honest voting system: One man one vote.
Nevertheless the candidate with lesser votes can win the elections and
become the president.
In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
So far what I learned from reading but correct me if I'm wrong J One day I
hope to cross the pond and have a look by myself.
petrus bitbyter
Design any interesting electronics lately?
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
miso
2012-11-22 16:01:06 UTC
Permalink
1) There are no leftist weenies
2) The right wingers are moochers. Money flows from the liberal to the
conservatives. Arizona, land of the freeloaders.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union
Jim Thompson
2012-11-22 16:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
Post by miso
2) The right wingers are moochers. Money flows from the liberal to the
conservatives. Arizona, land of the freeloaders.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union
The money goes to, by Federal fiat, to support illegals. If we could
shoot them as they cross the borders, we could export money.

At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Post by miso
:-}
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
2012-11-22 17:07:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.

VLV
Michael A. Terrell
2012-11-22 18:15:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
Fool.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
2012-11-22 21:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
Fool.
Heil Bush!
Michael A. Terrell
2012-11-22 22:24:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
Fool.
Heil Bush!
Are you finally tired of Hitler? I'm an independent, so your lame
attempt to insult me shows just what kind of fool you are.
k***@att.bizzz
2012-11-22 23:12:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:24:02 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
Post by Michael A. Terrell
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
Fool.
Heil Bush!
Are you finally tired of Hitler? I'm an independent, so your lame
attempt to insult me shows just what kind of fool you are.
Why would anyone be insulted by what a Trotskyite like "Vladimir" have
to say? Why does he have a say in American politics in the first
place?
Michael A. Terrell
2012-11-22 23:45:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@att.bizzz
Why would anyone be insulted by what a Trotskyite like "Vladimir" have
to say? Why does he have a say in American politics in the first
place?
He only thinks he does. He's like Slogman.
k***@att.bizzz
2012-11-23 00:20:15 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 18:45:57 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
Post by Michael A. Terrell
Post by k***@att.bizzz
Why would anyone be insulted by what a Trotskyite like "Vladimir" have
to say? Why does he have a say in American politics in the first
place?
He only thinks he does. He's like Slogman.
Quite like.
Bill Sloman
2012-11-23 00:36:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@att.bizzz
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 18:45:57 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
Post by k***@att.bizzz
Why would anyone be insulted by what a Trotskyite like "Vladimir" have
to say?  Why does he have a say in American politics in the first
place?
  He only thinks he does.  He's like Slogman.
Quite like.
If you were as dumb and ill-informed as krw you could think that, if
you were to dignify the decision-forming process as "thinking". Being
cringingly obsequious is a more informative description of the
process.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
2012-11-23 00:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@att.bizzz
Why would anyone be insulted by what a Trotskyite like "Vladimir" have
to say?  Why does he have a say in American politics in the first
place?
   He only thinks he does.  He's like Slogman.
He doesn't have a say in American politics. He's interested in it
because the defects of the American political system have consequences
fir the rest of the world. He's like me only in the sense that he has
his own opinions, and they are mostly rational.

Mike Terrell does have his own opinions, but most of them are standard
issue right-wing nitwit fodder that he was spoon-fed by the Florida
press - Heil Jeb Bush - while krw is famous for having just one
opinion, which is that he agrees exactly with every right-wing nitwit
who posts here who make more money than he does.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Vladimir Vassilevsky
2012-11-23 00:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael A. Terrell
Post by k***@att.bizzz
Why would anyone be insulted by what a Trotskyite like "Vladimir" have
to say? Why does he have a say in American politics in the first
place?
He only thinks he does. He's like Slogman.
As US sitizen, I have the same say and same vote as everybody else. At least
in the theory. However, as everything has already been decided in the
government, it would be more accurate to say that my opinion does not have
any weight as well as everybody else's.

VLV
Jim Thompson
2012-11-22 18:21:59 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 11:07:53 -0600, "Vladimir Vassilevsky"
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
VLV
I'm almost 73, and my preference is woman-on-top >:-}

Why do Europeons think we, on the right financially, are bible
thumpers?

Because the Dems push that as our image?

In actual fact, read your history, Dems are the bible thumpers AND the
racists.

Watch "Lincoln" as an example... and that movie was made by a
leftist... by Phoenix' own Steven Spielberg, graduate of Arcadia High
School.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Syd Rumpo
2012-11-22 22:59:24 UTC
Permalink
On 22/11/2012 18:21, Jim Thompson wrote:

<snip>
Post by Jim Thompson
Why do Europeons think we, on the right financially, are bible
thumpers?
That's an interesting question, and probably more to do with our media
than anything. Whenever I've been to the 'States, I've found the people
to be overwhelmingly friendly and helpful. But that applies almost
anywhere I've been, even France :-)

<aside>
True conversation in Alabama: "Where're y'all from?" - "I'm British." -
"Gee, you speak English really well!"
</aside>

But when we read that the next 'leader of the free world' might be a
Mormon, that's really freaky. I didn't know much about Mormonism, as
far as I know they're just rather strange young men in suits who prowl
the streets of Britain boring the arse off anyone foolish enough to stop
and listen. At first, I thought the South Park 'Mormon' episode was
just a bit of fun, then I read a bit and saw that it was practically a
documentary.

This Romney nutter believes in fucking pixies and could have had his
finger on the big red button. That's not to say that Obama isn't a
theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.

Over here, Republican ~= fundamentalist Christian, anti-gay,
anti-almost-any-sort-of-freedom-of-expression, militaristic, closet
racist etc. Democrats, however, are just a little more cuddly. But not
much.

Basically, all foreigners are weird, but I suppose they can't help being
foreign. God save the Queen!
--
Syd
Jim Thompson
2012-11-23 18:12:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Syd Rumpo
<snip>
Post by Jim Thompson
Why do Europeons think we, on the right financially, are bible
thumpers?
That's an interesting question, and probably more to do with our media
than anything. Whenever I've been to the 'States, I've found the people
to be overwhelmingly friendly and helpful. But that applies almost
anywhere I've been, even France :-)
I've had French street vendors ignore me and serve everyone around me
:-(
Post by Syd Rumpo
<aside>
True conversation in Alabama: "Where're y'all from?" - "I'm British." -
"Gee, you speak English really well!"
</aside>
;-)
Post by Syd Rumpo
But when we read that the next 'leader of the free world' might be a
Mormon, that's really freaky.
Why is that any more "freaky" than a Baptist? They're the real
"thumpers" >:-}
Post by Syd Rumpo
I didn't know much about Mormonism, as
far as I know they're just rather strange young men in suits who prowl
the streets of Britain boring the arse off anyone foolish enough to stop
and listen. At first, I thought the South Park 'Mormon' episode was
just a bit of fun, then I read a bit and saw that it was practically a
documentary.
This Romney nutter believes in fucking pixies and could have had his
finger on the big red button.
Sounds like preconceived bias to me.
Post by Syd Rumpo
That's not to say that Obama isn't a
theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
Obama is _mainstream_? You have to be kidding.
Post by Syd Rumpo
Over here, Republican ~= fundamentalist Christian, anti-gay,
anti-almost-any-sort-of-freedom-of-expression, militaristic, closet
racist etc.
That's one thing we need to cure. Image laid on us by Democrats. And
ignorance of those who will not seek out facts
Post by Syd Rumpo
Democrats, however, are just a little more cuddly. But not
much.
Like a turd.
Post by Syd Rumpo
Basically, all foreigners are weird, but I suppose they can't help being
foreign. God save the Queen!
Naaaah! All people are people. I don't know quite how you can pull
it off on a world-wide scale, but the student exchange program
provides the sort of exposure to others that causes you to regard them
as people rather than as "the enemy".

One of the most stressful moments of my life was when putting a
Japanese exchange student on the plane back to Narita. She threw her
arms around me and cried, "Daddy, I don't want to go!"

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Michael A. Terrell
2012-11-23 18:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
Sounds like preconceived bias to me.
Post by Syd Rumpo
That's not to say that Obama isn't a
theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
Obama is _mainstream_? You have to be kidding.
More like 'Up a stream...'
Post by Jim Thompson
Naaaah! All people are people. I don't know quite how you can pull
it off on a world-wide scale, but the student exchange program
provides the sort of exposure to others that causes you to regard them
as people rather than as "the enemy".
Some foreign exchange students are delightful, like the daughter of a
high ranking Brazilian general who used to visit our house. She was
beautiful, and sang like an angel. :)
k***@att.bizzz
2012-11-23 23:51:00 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:29:34 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
Post by Michael A. Terrell
Post by Jim Thompson
Sounds like preconceived bias to me.
Post by Syd Rumpo
That's not to say that Obama isn't a
theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
Obama is _mainstream_? You have to be kidding.
More like 'Up a stream...'
No canoe.
Post by Michael A. Terrell
Post by Jim Thompson
Naaaah! All people are people. I don't know quite how you can pull
it off on a world-wide scale, but the student exchange program
provides the sort of exposure to others that causes you to regard them
as people rather than as "the enemy".
Some foreign exchange students are delightful, like the daughter of a
high ranking Brazilian general who used to visit our house. She was
beautiful, and sang like an angel. :)
Maybe Slowman can exchange at Thompson's place. ;-)
Michael A. Terrell
2012-11-24 00:28:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@att.bizzz
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:29:34 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
Post by Michael A. Terrell
Post by Jim Thompson
Sounds like preconceived bias to me.
Post by Syd Rumpo
That's not to say that Obama isn't a
theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
Obama is _mainstream_? You have to be kidding.
More like 'Up a stream...'
No canoe.
Post by Michael A. Terrell
Post by Jim Thompson
Naaaah! All people are people. I don't know quite how you can pull
it off on a world-wide scale, but the student exchange program
provides the sort of exposure to others that causes you to regard them
as people rather than as "the enemy".
Some foreign exchange students are delightful, like the daughter of a
high ranking Brazilian general who used to visit our house. She was
beautiful, and sang like an angel. :)
Maybe Slowman can exchange at Thompson's place. ;-)
What has Jim ever done to you to warrant that?
Bill Sloman
2012-11-24 01:02:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@att.bizzz
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:29:34 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
Post by Jim Thompson
Sounds like preconceived bias to me.
Post by Syd Rumpo
That's not to say that Obama isn't a
theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
Obama is _mainstream_?  You have to be kidding.
 More like 'Up a stream...'
No canoe.
Post by Jim Thompson
Naaaah!  All people are people.  I don't know quite how you can pull
it off on a world-wide scale, but the student exchange program
provides the sort of exposure to others that causes you to regard them
as people rather than as "the enemy".
  Some foreign exchange students are delightful, like the daughter of a
high ranking Brazilian general who used to visit our house.  She was
beautiful, and sang like an angel. :)
Maybe Slowman can exchange at Thompson's place.  ;-)
   What has Jim ever done to you to warrant that?
Maybe he figures that Jim could use the education. Australians do
volunteer abroad (AVI) to educate the natives - not usually in the US,
but Jim does represent a pocket of particularly concentrated
ignorance.

http://www.australianvolunteers.com/

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
cameo
2012-11-24 01:10:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
One of the most stressful moments of my life was when putting a
Japanese exchange student on the plane back to Narita. She threw her
arms around me and cried, "Daddy, I don't want to go!"
Just how old was this student, Daddy? ;-)
Jim Thompson
2012-11-24 16:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by Jim Thompson
One of the most stressful moments of my life was when putting a
Japanese exchange student on the plane back to Narita. She threw her
arms around me and cried, "Daddy, I don't want to go!"
Just how old was this student, Daddy? ;-)
16-17. And my four kids always called me "Daddy", so the exchange
students did also.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
cameo
2012-11-24 19:15:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
16-17. And my four kids always called me "Daddy", so the exchange
students did also.
Oh, good! I started worrying that you were a sugardaddy to her. ;-)
Jim Thompson
2012-11-24 19:43:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by Jim Thompson
16-17. And my four kids always called me "Daddy", so the exchange
students did also.
Oh, good! I started worrying that you were a sugardaddy to her. ;-)
I've had that problem all my life... female employees considered me a
father image, and always approached me with their personal problems...
but never on a sugar-daddy level :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
cameo
2012-11-24 19:57:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
I've had that problem all my life... female employees considered me a
father image, and always approached me with their personal problems...
but never on a sugar-daddy level :-(
Oh, that curse of decency ...
Jim Thompson
2012-11-24 20:03:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by Jim Thompson
I've had that problem all my life... female employees considered me a
father image, and always approached me with their personal problems...
but never on a sugar-daddy level :-(
Oh, that curse of decency ...
Yep. Curses >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
amdx
2012-11-22 20:41:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
VLV
Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more
variety in their sex life, and they have it more often.
It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
Mikek
Vladimir Vassilevsky
2012-11-22 21:06:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more variety
in their sex life, and they have it more often.
It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
Of course. When they catch another serial rapist homosexual, quite often he
appears to be a pillar of conservative society if not a priest.
Jim Thompson
2012-11-22 21:24:37 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:06:06 -0600, "Vladimir Vassilevsky"
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more variety
in their sex life, and they have it more often.
It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
Of course. When they catch another serial rapist homosexual, quite often he
appears to be a pillar of conservative society if not a priest.
Vladimir. Why don't you just go away? I don't conceal my identity or
E-mail address. Why do you? Too many little boys in your sexual
exploits?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
2012-11-22 21:49:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:06:06 -0600, "Vladimir Vassilevsky"
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
in
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more variety
in their sex life, and they have it more often.
It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
Of course. When they catch another serial rapist homosexual, quite often he
appears to be a pillar of conservative society if not a priest.
Vladimir. Why don't you just go away?
I am just expressing my opinion and observations. What is wrong with it?
Post by Jim Thompson
I don't conceal my identity or
E-mail address. Why do you? Too many little boys in your sexual
exploits?
A self appointed FBI shitch tells me to go away?
Jim Thompson
2012-11-22 22:24:33 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:49:11 -0600, "Vladimir Vassilevsky"
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:06:06 -0600, "Vladimir Vassilevsky"
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
in
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more variety
in their sex life, and they have it more often.
It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
Of course. When they catch another serial rapist homosexual, quite often he
appears to be a pillar of conservative society if not a priest.
Vladimir. Why don't you just go away?
I am just expressing my opinion and observations. What is wrong with it?
Post by Jim Thompson
I don't conceal my identity or
E-mail address. Why do you? Too many little boys in your sexual
exploits?
A self appointed FBI shitch tells me to go away?
What? You want to be listed ?:-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Michael A. Terrell
2012-11-22 22:33:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
A self appointed FBI shitch tells me to go away?
What? You want to be listed ?:-)
Even though he can't spell worth 'shitch'?
Bill Sloman
2012-11-22 23:07:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:49:11 -0600, "Vladimir Vassilevsky"
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:06:06 -0600, "Vladimir Vassilevsky"
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
in
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
  Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more
variety
in their sex life, and they have it more often.
It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
Of course. When they catch another serial rapist homosexual, quite often he
appears to be a pillar of conservative society if not a priest.
Vladimir.  Why don't you just go away?
I am just expressing my opinion and observations. What is wrong with it?
Post by Jim Thompson
I don't conceal my identity or
E-mail address.  Why do you?  Too many little boys in your sexual
exploits?
A self appointed FBI shitch tells me to go away?
What?  You want to be listed ?:-)
Jim's too dim to realise that telling the FBI about people he suspects
of being dangerously anti-American can say at least as much about his
- negligible - powers of judgement as it says about the people he
snitches on.

Since I once had legitimate reason to visit US-Army ECOM at Fort
Monmouth New Jersey, the FBI might well have been able to access a
security file on me which would have told them a different story than
the one Jim was peddling.

He can try to finger anybody he likes, but the FBI is unlikely to
waste time following up the leads he gives them.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Jim Thompson
2012-11-22 21:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by amdx
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
VLV
Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more
variety in their sex life, and they have it more often.
It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
Mikek
In his early-80's my father inquired if I was still getting sex... he
said that he was... annoyed the crap out of my sister, because our
mother had only been dead for two years, and he was already "dating"
;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Bill Sloman
2012-11-22 22:58:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by miso
1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Post by Jim Thompson
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
VLV
   Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more
variety in their sex life, and they have it more often.
It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
These studies followed studies that showed that conservative had more
money to spend on books than liberals, but they'd only spend it on
books that portrayed them favourably.

Lying flattery sells to conservatives, who can't do the critical
thinking required to detect that they are being ripped off by
flatterers. Economists have noticed this too.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
miso
2012-11-23 04:16:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by amdx
Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more
variety in their sex life, and they have it more often.
It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
Mikek
Yeah, I think the American Enterprise Institute issued that report. Or
was it Heritage? I think Larry Craig wrote it. Wait, maybe Bob Allen.
No, Bruce Barclay.
Post by amdx
http://dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandals
cameo
2012-11-23 00:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vladimir Vassilevsky
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Vlad, ty nichevo nie poniemayesh.
miso
2012-11-23 04:11:10 UTC
Permalink
Here is a list of Republican heterosexual porn stars:
b***@gmail.com
2012-11-22 19:42:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by petrus bitbyter
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
That explains your pathetically simple-minded and inaccurate opinion.
amdx
2012-11-22 20:36:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by petrus bitbyter
In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
which cannot succeed.
petrus bitbyter
I suspect you are referring the "one" that's me who wants to start the
American Entitlement Party.

My post was somewhat in jest, because
I think the government takes to much money from taxpayers and
distributes it to those who have either, not figured out how to make it
in the land of plenty, or have figured out how to live off of others
labor in the land of plenty.
Even those living under the poverty level (we call them poor) seem to
be able to get their fingernails painted by someone who often has come
to this country and does not speak the language well, but HAS figured
out how to earn a living and acquire assets.
Many of the poor have big screen tv's, cable tv and internet. They
also have air conditioning and an automobile. They have cellphones
usually a smart phone. Many of us who aren't on government subsidies
don't have smart phones and our wives don't get their fingernails
painted by others, because we are spending money we earned,
not money given to us. This gives us a bad feeling about welfare,
even though we understand it is needed in many situations. Poor in
America is not like poor in a third world country.
The benefit of having the American Entitlement Party is, there are
people that think we need more entitlements, if they all voted for the
American Entitlement Party presidential candidate, most of that vote
would come from the Democratic candidate, this would benefit the
Republican candidate. That was the purpose of my rant.
Post by petrus bitbyter
So far what I learned from reading but correct me if I'm wrong J One
day I hope to cross the pond and have a look by myself.
We would be happy to see you!

Mikek
Michael A. Terrell
2012-11-22 22:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by amdx
We would be happy to see you!
That's what we tell all of the Snowbirds. As they are heading north
for the summer. ;-)
cameo
2012-11-23 01:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by amdx
I suspect you are referring the "one" that's me who wants to start the
American Entitlement Party.
My post was somewhat in jest, because
I think the government takes to much money from taxpayers and
distributes it to those who have either, not figured out how to make it
in the land of plenty, or have figured out how to live off of others
labor in the land of plenty.
Even those living under the poverty level (we call them poor) seem to
be able to get their fingernails painted by someone who often has come
to this country and does not speak the language well, but HAS figured
out how to earn a living and acquire assets.
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at busy
intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born Americans.
Go, figure ...
amdx
2012-11-23 22:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by amdx
I suspect you are referring the "one" that's me who wants to start the
American Entitlement Party.
My post was somewhat in jest, because
I think the government takes to much money from taxpayers and
distributes it to those who have either, not figured out how to make it
in the land of plenty, or have figured out how to live off of others
labor in the land of plenty.
Even those living under the poverty level (we call them poor) seem to
be able to get their fingernails painted by someone who often has come
to this country and does not speak the language well, but HAS figured
out how to earn a living and acquire assets.
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at busy
intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born Americans.
Go, figure ...
Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come here
to better themselves. Another point, they have a different view about
all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply to me)
My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English skills, no
education to help them. But a couple of the siblings have
over a million in assets, most of their children went through college.
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living and
rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
Mikek
P E Schoen
2012-11-24 03:43:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by amdx
Post by cameo
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
Americans.
Go, figure ...
Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
to me)
My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
college.
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy and
lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such people can
be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...

There are truly destitute people, mostly in Appalachia, who have relatively
good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter. Most poor
people from other countries value education and hard work and see
opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.

We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
with more benefits for having babies. All it would take, I think, is to
offer $5000 to anyone who will consent to being sterilized, or even as an
annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.

Paul
Bill Sloman
2012-11-24 12:13:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by P E Schoen
Post by cameo
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
Americans.
Go, figure ...
  Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
to me)
  My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
college.
 I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
 Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
The problem is the culture that lets inner-city poor people get as
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
Post by P E Schoen
Family values have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified.
Extreme poverty does that.
Post by P E Schoen
Education is disrespected,
US inner-city education in low income neighbourhoods isn't exactly
exemplary.
Post by P E Schoen
and even actual intelligence declines because of genetic and environmental factors.
If you don't feed kids right, they can't pay attention in class, and
don't play vigorously enough to develop their nervous systems fully.
It's been researched, but only by "left-wing" researchers.
Post by P E Schoen
Teenage pregnancy and lifelong welfare become the norms.
They don't. They are bad career choices, but if you don't know much
and haven't got enough sense to defer gratification, lots of people
get stuck with choices that they didn't really understand that they
were making.
Post by P E Schoen
There are few jobs where such people can
be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money..
Enough welfare, delivered early enough short circuits the whole mess -
or a least a great deal of it. Look at Germany.
Post by P E Schoen
There are truly destitute people, mostly in Appalachia, who have relatively
good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter.
And people who came from that background - like Jim Thompson - who
have a really strange idea of what a moral value might be,
Post by P E Schoen
Most poor people from other countries value education and hard work and see
opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.
The ones who have the wit to recognise emigration as an option, and
the energy and application to move countries, are a heavily self-
selected group. They aren't representative of the relatives they left
behind.
Post by P E Schoen
We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
with more benefits for having babies.
But it would make sense to increase the benefits enough to get better
value out of the babies who have already been produced.
Post by P E Schoen
All it would take, I think, is to offer $5000 to anyone who will consent to being sterilized, or even as an
annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
It didn't work in India. Supporting the kids well enough so that they
can grow up fit for something more useful than criminal activity might
be a better option. It would cost more up front, but starts paying off
relatively rapidly.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
amdx
2012-11-24 15:19:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by P E Schoen
Post by amdx
Post by cameo
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
Americans.
Go, figure ...
Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
to me)
My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
college.
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
The problem is the culture that lets inner-city poor people get as
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
Post by P E Schoen
Family values have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified.
Extreme poverty does that.
Do you have any idea how much a person in the welfare program receives?

10 states have welfare benefits equal to more than $11 per hour!

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Total amount of money you can make monthly and still receive Welfare $1000

Total Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than an $8 per
hour job. (40)

Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than a $12 per hour
job. (7)

Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than the average salary
of a U.S. Teacher. (9)


http://www.cato.org/research/pr-nd-st.html

Welfare Pays Better Than Work, Study Finds
$36,000 a Year in Hawaii
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by P E Schoen
Education is disrespected,
US inner-city education in low income neighbourhoods isn't exactly
exemplary.
Post by P E Schoen
and even actual intelligence declines because of genetic and environmental factors.
If you don't feed kids right, they can't pay attention in class, and
don't play vigorously enough to develop their nervous systems fully.
It's been researched, but only by "left-wing" researchers.
As far as I know all public schools have a Hardworking Taxpayer
Funded breakfast program, for those parents who don't feed
their own children.
Even feeds those kids that have a tv in their bedroom and carry a
smart phone.


Mikek
hamilton
2012-11-24 17:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by amdx
Post by Bill Sloman
"amdx" wrote in
Post by amdx
Post by cameo
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
Americans.
Go, figure ...
Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
to me)
My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
college.
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
The problem is the culture that lets inner-city poor people get as
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
Family values have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified.
Extreme poverty does that.
Do you have any idea how much a person in the welfare program receives?
10 states have welfare benefits equal to more than $11 per hour!
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
Total amount of money you can make monthly and still receive
Welfare $1000
Total Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than an $8 per
hour job. (40)
Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than a $12 per hour
job. (7)
Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than the average salary
of a U.S. Teacher. (9)
http://www.cato.org/research/pr-nd-st.html
Welfare Pays Better Than Work, Study Finds
$36,000 a Year in Hawaii
Post by Bill Sloman
Education is disrespected,
US inner-city education in low income neighbourhoods isn't exactly
exemplary.
and even actual intelligence declines because of genetic and
environmental factors.
If you don't feed kids right, they can't pay attention in class, and
don't play vigorously enough to develop their nervous systems fully.
It's been researched, but only by "left-wing" researchers.
As far as I know all public schools have a Hardworking Taxpayer
Funded breakfast program, for those parents who don't feed
their own children.
Even feeds those kids that have a tv in their bedroom and carry a
smart phone.
Mikek
And cutting them all off will improve things, right ??

The streets will be safer, right ??

Then there will be money to hirer more police.

Didn't Germany try this a few years ago.

h
amdx
2012-11-24 20:26:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by hamilton
Post by amdx
Post by Bill Sloman
"amdx" wrote in
Post by amdx
Post by cameo
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
Americans.
Go, figure ...
Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
to me)
My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
college.
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
The problem is the culture that lets inner-city poor people get as
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
Family values have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and
violence are rampant and
even glorified.
Extreme poverty does that.
Do you have any idea how much a person in the welfare program receives?
10 states have welfare benefits equal to more than $11 per hour!
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
Total amount of money you can make monthly and still receive
Welfare $1000
Total Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than an $8 per
hour job. (40)
Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than a $12 per hour
job. (7)
Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than the average salary
of a U.S. Teacher. (9)
http://www.cato.org/research/pr-nd-st.html
Welfare Pays Better Than Work, Study Finds
$36,000 a Year in Hawaii
Post by Bill Sloman
Education is disrespected,
US inner-city education in low income neighbourhoods isn't exactly
exemplary.
and even actual intelligence declines because of genetic and environmental factors.
If you don't feed kids right, they can't pay attention in class, and
don't play vigorously enough to develop their nervous systems fully.
It's been researched, but only by "left-wing" researchers.
As far as I know all public schools have a Hardworking Taxpayer
Funded breakfast program, for those parents who don't feed
their own children.
Even feeds those kids that have a tv in their bedroom and carry a
smart phone.
Mikek
And cutting them all off will improve things, right ??
The streets will be safer, right ??
Then there will be money to hirer more police.
Didn't Germany try this a few years ago.
h
Was this country any worse off in the 1960s than now, when we spend
trillion on welfare? The correct answer is no. Some might even say we
created the governmental dependent class, by creating welfare.
Mikek
Bill Sloman
2012-11-24 20:59:37 UTC
Permalink
"amdx"  wrote in
<snip>
  Was this country any worse off in the 1960s than now, when we spend
trillion on welfare? The correct answer is no.
"Correct"? First define what you mean by "worse off". The standard of
living in the 1960's was lower, by pretty much every rational measure.
Some might even say we created the governmental dependent class, by creating welfare.
It's the same class as ever - the people who (for one reason or
another) weren't earning enough to live on and depended on charity
from their relatives, friends and society to live on.

Government welfare has taken over from private charity - to some
extent - and the poor are somewhat less likely to starve to death, or
die appreciably younger than the rest of society from the diseases
encouraged by not getting enough food, not getting enough of the right
sort of food, or living in sub-standard housing, or sleeping rough.

This hasn't created an impoverished class, but may have contributed to
keeping more of them alive.

US welfare doesn't seem to have been generous enough to let the
children in this impoverished class thrive, rather than survive, thus
giving them a change to do appreciably better than their parents, and
shrinking the next generation of candidates for the next generation of
the impoverished.

European welfare does seem to have done rather better - at least in
the advanced industrial countries with enough productive capacity to
afford that kind of welfare.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
John Larkin
2012-11-24 16:24:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:13:19 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by P E Schoen
Post by cameo
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
Americans.
Go, figure ...
  Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
to me)
  My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
college.
 I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
 Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
The problem is the culture that lets inner-city poor people get as
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
Google slums of France
Bill Sloman
2012-11-24 21:05:56 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 25, 3:24 am, John Larkin
Post by John Larkin
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:13:19 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by P E Schoen
Post by amdx
Post by cameo
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
Americans.
Go, figure ...
Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
to me)
My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
college.
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
The problem is the culture that lets inner-city poor people get as
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
Google   slums of France
By which you presumably mean

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/world/europe/11iht-paris.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

which dates from 2005, and documents a particular slum where
conditions had been bad enough to provoke a riot. It's anecdotal
evidence. Every country has black spots where unemployment is too high
and opportunities are hard to find - the US isn't short of them. If
you want to find fault with the policy, find some country wide
statistics.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
John Larkin
2012-11-24 22:06:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:05:56 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
Post by Bill Sloman
On Nov 25, 3:24 am, John Larkin
Post by John Larkin
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:13:19 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by P E Schoen
Post by amdx
Post by cameo
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
Americans.
Go, figure ...
Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
to me)
My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
college.
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
The problem is the culture that lets inner-city poor people get as
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
Google   slums of France
By which you presumably mean
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/world/europe/11iht-paris.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
which dates from 2005, and documents a particular slum where
conditions had been bad enough to provoke a riot. It's anecdotal
evidence. Every country has black spots where unemployment is too high
and opportunities are hard to find - the US isn't short of them. If
you want to find fault with the policy, find some country wide
statistics.
It's useless to debate fools.
hifi-tek
2012-11-24 22:51:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Larkin
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:05:56 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
On Nov 25, 3:24 am, John Larkin
Post by John Larkin
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:13:19 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
Post by Bill Sloman
"amdx" wrote in
Post by amdx
Post by cameo
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
Americans.
Go, figure ...
Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
to me)
My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
college.
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
The problem is the culture that lets inner-city poor people get as
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
Google slums of France
By which you presumably mean
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/world/europe/11iht-paris.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
which dates from 2005, and documents a particular slum where
conditions had been bad enough to provoke a riot. It's anecdotal
evidence. Every country has black spots where unemployment is too high
and opportunities are hard to find - the US isn't short of them. If
you want to find fault with the policy, find some country wide
statistics.
It's useless to debate fools.
Exactly. That's why I am killfiling Sloman. I would appreciate no more
responses to the Aussie fool, that way I won't have to see his posts at all.
TIA,
Tom
Bill Sloman
2012-11-24 23:16:50 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:05:56 -0800 (PST),BillSloman
On Nov 25, 3:24 am, John Larkin
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:13:19 -0800 (PST),BillSloman
Post by Bill Sloman
"amdx" wrote in
Post by amdx
Post by cameo
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
Americans.
Go, figure ...
Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
to me)
My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
college.
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
The problem is the culture that lets inner-city poor people get as
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
Google slums of France
By which you presumably mean
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/world/europe/11iht-paris.html?pagew...
which dates from 2005, and documents a particular slum where
conditions had been bad enough to provoke a riot. It's anecdotal
evidence. Every country has black spots where unemployment is too high
and opportunities are hard to find - the US isn't short of them. If
you want to find fault with the policy, find some country wide
statistics.
It's useless to debate fools.
Exactly. That's why I am killfilingSloman. I would appreciate no more
responses to the Aussie fool, that way I won't have to see his posts at all.
TIA,
Clearly a foolish reaction. Tom obviously needs education, but will
only tolerate it if it doesn't conflict with the childhood instruction
that taught him to believe that the US is the acme of perfection in
every respect. Non-fools learn to recognise and discount the lies they
were told as children - sometimes they can even learn enough to
realise why they were lied to in that particular way - but the rest
remain the complaisant and pliable citizens it was hoped they'd become
if they couldn't learn to think for themselves.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
John Fields
2012-11-24 23:04:53 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:06:38 -0800, John Larkin
Post by John Larkin
It's useless to debate fools.
---
No argument there...
--
JF
Bill Sloman
2012-11-24 23:17:59 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 25, 9:06 am, John Larkin
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:05:56 -0800 (PST),BillSloman
On Nov 25, 3:24 am, John Larkin
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 04:13:19 -0800 (PST),BillSloman
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by P E Schoen
Post by amdx
Post by cameo
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
Americans.
Go, figure ...
Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
to me)
My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
college.
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
The problem is the culture that lets inner-city poor people get as
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
Google slums of France
By which you presumably mean
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/world/europe/11iht-paris.html?pagew...
which dates from 2005, and documents a particular slum where
conditions had been bad enough to provoke a riot. It's anecdotal
evidence. Every country has black spots where unemployment is too high
and opportunities are hard to find - the US isn't short of them. If
you want to find fault with the policy, find some country wide
statistics.
It's useless to debate fools.
And you don't have the time or the enthusiasm to find the relevant
statistic, which does make you the fool.
I'm not debating with you - that's clearly a waste of time - but
merely documenting the defect in your argument.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
hifi-tek
2012-11-24 19:42:55 UTC
Permalink
But it would make sense to increase the benefits enough to get better
value out of the babies who have already been produced.
Post by P E Schoen
All it would take, I think, is to offer $5000 to anyone who will consent
to being sterilized, or even as an
annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
It didn't work in India. Supporting the kids well enough so that they
can grow up fit for something more useful than criminal activity might
be a better option. It would cost more up front, but starts paying off
relatively rapidly.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Bill, where do you get your information? How do you ensure that the welfare
gets spent on the kids? How do you administer the program so it locks out
wastage of welfare on booze, cigarettes, automobiles,drugs etc.? You spew
all this garbage and disparage everything we do here in the US, but then you
pepper your comments with might, could, maybe, should,possibly, etc. You are
sadly ignorant of human behavior. Being a bleeding heart liberal is all well
and fine, but if all you can do is trash the US and spew forth rainbow
colored fantisies, then you are not much use, and your comments/spoutings
would be best kept to yourself.
Meant sincerely,
Tom
Bill Sloman
2012-11-24 21:22:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Sloman
But it would make sense to increase the benefits enough to get better
value out of the babies who have already been produced.
Post by P E Schoen
All it would take, I think, is to offer $5000 to anyone who will consent
to being sterilized, or even as an
annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
It didn't work in India. Supporting the kids well enough so that they
can grow up fit for something more useful than criminal activity might
be a better option. It would cost more up front, but starts paying off
relatively rapidly.
Bill, where do you get your information? How do you ensure that the welfare
gets spent on the kids?
Pay it to the mothers. It isn't entirely reliable - there are
psychopathic mothers - but it works a whole lot better than paying it
to the fathers.
Post by Bill Sloman
How do you administer the program so it locks out
wastage of welfare on booze, cigarettes, automobiles,drugs etc.?
Pay it to the mothers, pay it out in food stamps and rent vouchers ...
Post by Bill Sloman
You spew all this garbage and disparage everything we do here in the US,
I don't disparage everything you do, but your welfare system isn't
exactly one that could be held up as an international success story.
You could do quite a lot better, and the right-wing ideas of doing
better start with sterilising the poor, which has been popular with
right-wing nitwits for quite a while now and never seems to have done
any good anywhere it has been tried.
Post by Bill Sloman
but then you pepper your comments with might, could, maybe, should,possibly, etc.
I'm not prescribing how you might to do better, just pointing out that
if you looked outside God's only country you could find some examples
of countries that do do better, whose examples would seem to be worth
copying.
Post by Bill Sloman
You are sadly ignorant of human behavior.
Far from it. The ignorance here is all yours.
Post by Bill Sloman
Being a bleeding heart liberal is all well
and fine, but if all you can do is trash the US and spew forth rainbow
colored fantisies,
German and the Netherlands are "rainbow coloured" fantasies? Neither
is all that colourful, and both are decidedly real.
Post by Bill Sloman
then you are not much use,
I'm not much use to you, since you seem to have entirely missed the
point that my comments are essentially international comparisons,
rather than any kind of "fantasy".
Post by Bill Sloman
and your comments/spoutings would be best kept to yourself.
If every American was as much of a paraochial know-nothing as you
display yourself to be, my comments would have been a waste of
bandwidth - none so blind as those who do not wish to see.
Post by Bill Sloman
Meant sincerely,
I can believe the sincerity. The implied stupidity is a little more
implausible.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
P E Schoen
2012-11-25 00:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Sloman
Pay it to the mothers. It isn't entirely reliable - there are
psychopathic mothers - but it works a whole lot better than
paying it to the fathers.
This is most often the case. Often the father is in jail, dead, or otherwise
MIA. The US (followed closely by the UK), has the highest percentage of
single parent families, and most of them are poor. It's bad enough that
there is no male role model, and if the father were around his influence
would likely be even worse.
Post by Bill Sloman
Pay it to the mothers, pay it out in food stamps and rent vouchers ...
I think welfare should only be in the form of basic necessities such as
simple food and basic shelter. Beans and rice, for instance. Or some form of
MREs.
Post by Bill Sloman
I don't disparage everything you do, but your welfare system isn't
exactly one that could be held up as an international success story.
You could do quite a lot better, and the right-wing ideas of doing
better start with sterilising the poor, which has been popular with
right-wing nitwits for quite a while now and never seems to have
done any good anywhere it has been tried.
I'd be considered a leftist by most, but I fully support a voluntary (or
even "bribed") sterilization option, or even a bonus for staying baby-free
until education is complete and the person is working and can afford to have
children. AFAIK previous attempts have been somewhat "forced", and even
reasonable programs have been beaten down by truly delusional "bleedin'
heart" type liberals who scream that eugenics and selective birth control
are equivalent to Hitler's program of genocide.

I think the extremists on both the right and left feel that every child is a
gift from God, and that it is primarily the poverty that causes children to
have low IQ and sociopathic criminal tendencies, rather than genetics which
I think is at least 50% to 75% responsible, and easily fixed by birth
control.
Post by Bill Sloman
I'm not prescribing how you might to do better, just pointing out
that if you looked outside God's only country you could find some
examples of countries that do do better, whose examples would
seem to be worth copying.
You can't duplicate the inherent intellectual capacity and strong family
values and basic morality and ethics, which I think differentiate most
European countries from the US. We have had it relatively easy for a long
time with an abundance of natural resources and opportunities, as well as a
misguided attempt at the "Great Society" that LBJ hoped for.
Post by Bill Sloman
German and the Netherlands are "rainbow coloured" fantasies?
Neither is all that colourful, and both are decidedly real.
And from my limited experience in those countries, and with people from
there and elsewhere in Europe, their basic values are a good deal better
than those of many/most Americans. We have become exorbitantly spoiled by
materialistic wealth, and have pursued wrong-headed futile programs such as
Prohibition and the "War on Drugs" which compounded the problems and led to
violent criminality. That, mixed with a revolving door legal system and a
litigious philosophy which rewards stupidity and stifles personal
responsibility, has created a very unstable and dangerous condition. I felt
safe walking just about anywhere in Amsterdam and Frankfurt when I was there
(in 1979), but in Baltimore and other US cities - not so much.

I usually support Bill Sloman's positions, but I must challenge his
proposition that US welfare is not generous enough. I have personally seen,
or know from others who have had direct experience, how there is a very
different mindset among those who are perennially poor and cannot seem to
extricate themselves from their difficult positions. It is not because they
need more money, but rather they are in need of problem solving skills and
what most of us would consider common sense. And there is a culture of
violence and incivility that can be seen and heard in the music and other
forms of expression.

Paul
Jim Thompson
2012-11-25 00:44:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by P E Schoen
Post by Bill Sloman
Pay it to the mothers. It isn't entirely reliable - there are
psychopathic mothers - but it works a whole lot better than
paying it to the fathers.
This is most often the case. Often the father is in jail, dead, or otherwise
MIA. The US (followed closely by the UK), has the highest percentage of
single parent families, and most of them are poor. It's bad enough that
there is no male role model, and if the father were around his influence
would likely be even worse.
[snip]

Most often they're black... courtesy of Democrats "taking care" of
them... think LBJ for village-idiot approaches to welfare.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
cameo
2012-11-25 04:32:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
Most often they're black... courtesy of Democrats "taking care" of
them... think LBJ for village-idiot approaches to welfare.
For their political purposes it was actually a brilliant move because
ever since then the blacks vote overwhelmingly on Dems. Before LBJ, the
black vote ratio did not differ that much from the white vote.
Jim Thompson
2012-11-25 18:00:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by Jim Thompson
Most often they're black... courtesy of Democrats "taking care" of
them... think LBJ for village-idiot approaches to welfare.
For their political purposes it was actually a brilliant move because
ever since then the blacks vote overwhelmingly on Dems. Before LBJ, the
black vote ratio did not differ that much from the white vote.
Yep. Before LBJ I lived in a racially-mixed neighborhood. Nobody
noticed. All of us were just working stiffs. Primarily WWII Vets,
with well-kept houses and lawns.

Now that neighborhood is a slum. And so drug-ridden that it's scary
to drive thru.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Bill Sloman
2012-11-25 05:48:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by P E Schoen
Post by Bill Sloman
Pay it to the mothers. It isn't entirely reliable - there are
psychopathic mothers - but it works a whole lot better than
paying it to the fathers.
This is most often the case. Often the father is in jail, dead, or otherwise
MIA. The US (followed closely by the UK), has the highest percentage of
single parent families,
Are you confusing "unwed mothers" with "single parent families"? The
US and the UK have a lot of perfectly stable and conventional families
where the parents haven't bothered to get married, and the right-wing
statistics merchants aren't good at noticing that these families
aren't actually "single parent" families in any practical sense, and
proceed to predict the imminent melt-down of society.

http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/pdf/75_PDF.pdf
Post by P E Schoen
and most of them are poor. It's bad enough that
there is no male role model, and if the father were around his influence
would likely be even worse.
Post by Bill Sloman
Pay it to the mothers, pay it out in food stamps and rent vouchers ...
I think welfare should only be in the form of basic necessities such as
simple food and basic shelter. Beans and rice, for instance. Or some form of
MREs.
The Dutch, German and British social security systems don't seem to
find it necessary to go this kind of trouble, and giving the lower
ranks of the social security system additional powers over the people
they are supposed to be helping has it's own downsides.
Post by P E Schoen
Post by Bill Sloman
I don't disparage everything you do, but your welfare system isn't
exactly one that could be held up as an international success story.
You could do quite a lot better, and the right-wing ideas of doing
better start with sterilising the poor, which has been popular with
right-wing nitwits for quite a while now and never seems to have
done any good anywhere it has been tried.
I'd be considered a leftist by most, but I fully support a voluntary (or
even "bribed") sterilization option, or even a bonus for staying baby-free
until education is complete and the person is working and can afford to have
children. AFAIK previous attempts have been somewhat "forced", and even
reasonable programs have been beaten down by truly delusional "bleedin'
heart" type liberals who scream that eugenics and selective birth control
are equivalent to Hitler's program of genocide.
Not so much "equivalent to" as exactly the same as.
Post by P E Schoen
I think the extremists on both the right and left feel that every child is a
gift from God, and that it is primarily the poverty that causes children to
have low IQ and sociopathic criminal tendencies, rather than genetics which
I think is at least 50% to 75% responsible, and easily fixed by birth
control.
IQ may be something like 75% heritable, when the environment is
exactly the same - which it never is. Bad nutrition - which covers
rather more deficits than not having enough to eat - can suppress
anybody's IQ. It's fairly clear that intelligence - and the other
cognitive faculties that help people to do well in - and for - society
reflect a complicated mix of a lot of very different heritable
factors.

If you were to try to breed for "intelligence" you'd be forced to try
to stabilise a particular way of being intelligent, and you'd pay for
it with all the other problems you get when you go in for close in-
breeding.

Much better to accept that clever people - who are clever in many
different ways - pop up in every lineage from time to time, and run
your education system so that you find them early and take maximum
advantage of their particular skills.
Post by P E Schoen
Post by Bill Sloman
I'm not prescribing how you might to do better, just pointing out
that if you looked outside God's only country you could find some
examples of countries that do do better, whose examples would
seem to be worth copying.
You can't duplicate the inherent intellectual capacity and strong family
values and basic morality and ethics, which I think differentiate most
European countries from the US.
Why would you think that? Got any evidence?
Post by P E Schoen
We have had it relatively easy for a long
time with an abundance of natural resources and opportunities, as well as a
misguided attempt at the "Great Society" that LBJ hoped for.
Post by Bill Sloman
German and the Netherlands are "rainbow coloured" fantasies?
Neither is all that colourful, and both are decidedly real.
And from my limited experience in those countries, and with people from
there and elsewhere in Europe, their basic values are a good deal better
than those of many/most Americans. We have become exorbitantly spoiled by
materialistic wealth, and have pursued wrong-headed futile programs such as
Prohibition and the "War on Drugs" which compounded the problems and led to
violent criminality.
Germany and France are quite as officially anti-recreational drugs as
the US. The Dutch don't bother persecuting cannabis users - though
they still go after large scale importers. Netherlands has the same
sort of problems with violent criminality in the drug supply business
as the US, if on nowhere near as large a scale - with 17 million
people it simply happens less often.
Post by P E Schoen
That, mixed with a revolving door legal system and a
litigious philosophy which rewards stupidity and stifles personal
responsibility, has created a very unstable and dangerous condition. I felt
safe walking just about anywhere in Amsterdam and Frankfurt when I was there
(in 1979), but in Baltimore and other US cities - not so much.
I usually support Bill Sloman's positions, but I must challenge his
proposition that US welfare is not generous enough. I have personally seen,
or know from others who have had direct experience, how there is a very
different mindset among those who are perennially poor and cannot seem to
extricate themselves from their difficult positions. It is not because they
need more money, but rather they are in need of problem solving skills and
what most of us would consider common sense. And there is a culture of
violence and incivility that can be seen and heard in the music and other
forms of expression.
Quite a bit of that reflects the fact that the US welfare system has
been inadequate for a few generations now. Ill-fed kids are hard to
educate in a lot of social skills. Civility has to be learned, just
like reading and writing, and kids who weren't in a state to take
advantage of formal education aren't going to be any better at
learning other skills.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
P E Schoen
2012-11-25 00:04:56 UTC
Permalink
Forgot to add this link:
<http://carloz.newsvine.com/_news/2011/04/27/6545176-study-us-the-developed-country-with-highest-rate-of-single-parent-families-one-in-four-children-being-raised-by-one-parent>

I might add that this does not only affect poor people, but also the
relatively affluent where the children are mostly in day care and rarely get
quality time with their parents, even in two-parent families where both work
and commute long hours.

Paul
Bill Sloman
2012-11-25 05:58:48 UTC
Permalink
<http://carloz.newsvine.com/_news/2011/04/27/6545176-study-us-the-deve...>
I might add that this does not only affect poor people, but also the
relatively affluent where the children are mostly in day care and rarely get
quality time with their parents, even in two-parent families where both work
and commute long hours.
Parents aren't the only sources of parenting. Day care seems to work
fine. Check out kibbutz children

http://mainstreamparenting.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/a-society-of-misfits-the-kibbutz-experience/

It seems to have been a less-than productive notion, but it didn't do
any significant or detectable damage.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
P E Schoen
2012-11-25 07:21:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Sloman
Parents aren't the only sources of parenting. Day care seems to
work fine. Check out kibbutz children
http://mainstreamparenting.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/a-society-of-misfits-the-kibbutz-experience/
It seems to have been a less-than productive notion, but it didn't
do any significant or detectable damage.
I firmly believe in the concept that "it takes a village to raise a child",
and thus kibbutzes and intentional communities and communes are even better
than the traditional nuclear family. The kibbutz, apparently, is also based
on strong religious and moral principles, which I see sorely lacking in many
households. I really don't give a fig if the parents are married or not.
What matters is their deep sense of rational morality and ethics, and their
availability as role models for their children. In an extended community
with a sense of common purpose and sharing, and an open-minded acceptance of
alternative lifestyles (as long as they are not violent or destructive),
children should grow up with a more varied and healthier experience that
will enable them to cope with a fast changing and uncertain society.
Materialism and love of money and individual glory are the ingredients of a
self-destructive civilization. Lone wolves die; the pack survives.

Paul
Bill Sloman
2012-11-25 12:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by P E Schoen
Post by Bill Sloman
Parents aren't the only sources of parenting. Day care seems to
work fine. Check out kibbutz children
http://mainstreamparenting.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/a-society-of-misf...
It seems to have been a less-than productive notion, but it didn't
do any significant or detectable damage.
I firmly believe in the concept that "it takes a village to raise a child",
<snipped reasonable stuff>
Post by P E Schoen
Materialism and love of money and individual glory are the ingredients of a
self-destructive civilization. Lone wolves die; the pack survives.
Civilisation is about cooperation. Materialism, love of money and
desire for glory can all be means to getting that cooperation to work.
Idealism is fine, but other motivations shouldn't be neglected just
because they can be destructive if taken to excess or practiced in
isolation, and idealism on it's own can go seriously wrong.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Jim Thompson
2012-11-25 18:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by P E Schoen
Post by Bill Sloman
Parents aren't the only sources of parenting. Day care seems to
work fine. Check out kibbutz children
http://mainstreamparenting.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/a-society-of-misfits-the-kibbutz-experience/
It seems to have been a less-than productive notion, but it didn't
do any significant or detectable damage.
I firmly believe in the concept that "it takes a village to raise a child",
and thus kibbutzes and intentional communities and communes are even better
than the traditional nuclear family. The kibbutz, apparently, is also based
on strong religious and moral principles, which I see sorely lacking in many
households. I really don't give a fig if the parents are married or not.
What matters is their deep sense of rational morality and ethics, and their
availability as role models for their children. In an extended community
with a sense of common purpose and sharing, and an open-minded acceptance of
alternative lifestyles (as long as they are not violent or destructive),
children should grow up with a more varied and healthier experience that
will enable them to cope with a fast changing and uncertain society.
Materialism and love of money and individual glory are the ingredients of a
self-destructive civilization. Lone wolves die; the pack survives.
Paul
Baloney put forth by a leftist who has never provided for or raised a
family.

Indeed packs survive... you can find them in every slum.

Lone wolves become managers and entrepreneurs >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Bill Sloman
2012-11-25 21:51:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
Post by P E Schoen
Post by Bill Sloman
Parents aren't the only sources of parenting. Day care seems to
work fine. Check out kibbutz children
http://mainstreamparenting.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/a-society-of-misf...
It seems to have been a less-than productive notion, but it didn't
do any significant or detectable damage.
I firmly believe in the concept that "it takes a village to raise a child",
and thus kibbutzes and intentional communities and communes are even better
than the traditional nuclear family. The kibbutz, apparently, is also based
on strong religious and moral principles, which I see sorely lacking in many
households. I really don't give a fig if the parents are married or not.
What matters is their deep sense of rational morality and ethics, and their
availability as role models for their children. In an extended community
with a sense of common purpose and sharing, and an open-minded acceptance of
alternative lifestyles (as long as they are not violent or destructive),
children should grow up with a more varied and healthier experience that
will enable them to cope with a fast changing and uncertain society.
Materialism and love of money and individual glory are the ingredients of a
self-destructive civilization. Lone wolves die; the pack survives.
Paul
Baloney put forth by a leftist who has never provided for or raised a
family.
Indeed packs survive... you can find them in every slum.
Lone wolves become managers and entrepreneurs >:-}
Jim-out-of-touch-with-reality-Thompson hasn't noticed that managers
and entrepreneurs aren't lone wolves but rather leaders of their
little packs. Wolf society isn't a model for human society - it does
have a lot more in common with chimpanzee society - and neither has
evolved mechanism that let packs collaborate with other packs.

Providing for and raising a family hasn't exactly educated Jim - he
may be proud of having done it, but it's left him the same ignorant
redneck that he was when he went to MIT and learned quite a lot about
electronics, and nothing much about anything else.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
cameo
2012-11-26 03:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Sloman
Providing for and raising a family hasn't exactly educated Jim - he
may be proud of having done it, but it's left him the same ignorant
redneck that he was when he went to MIT and learned quite a lot about
electronics, and nothing much about anything else.
How lucky we are to have you here to teach us about the rest.
Aren't you just a bit too full of yourself?
Michael A. Terrell
2012-11-26 04:37:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by Bill Sloman
Providing for and raising a family hasn't exactly educated Jim - he
may be proud of having done it, but it's left him the same ignorant
redneck that he was when he went to MIT and learned quite a lot about
electronics, and nothing much about anything else.
How lucky we are to have you here to teach us about the rest.
Aren't you just a bit too full of yourself?
Bill thinks he has a 20 gallon mind in a quart hat, when the ratio is
more like a single Hydrogen atom in a 55 gallon drum.
Bill Sloman
2012-11-26 06:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by Bill Sloman
Providing for and raising a family hasn't exactly educated Jim - he
may be proud of having done it, but it's left him the same ignorant
redneck that he was when he went to MIT and learned quite a  lot about
electronics, and nothing much about anything else.
How lucky we are to have you here to teach us about the rest.
Aren't you just a bit too full of yourself?
   Bill thinks he has a 20 gallon mind in a quart hat, when the ratio is
more like a single Hydrogen atom in a 55 gallon drum.
Mike does love these little analogies. He was a technician - and
apparently a very good one - and he has the usual technicians
scepticism about engineers, and the usual technicians inability to
follow what's actually going on over his head.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
2012-11-26 05:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by Bill Sloman
Providing for and raising a family hasn't exactly educated Jim - he
may be proud of having done it, but it's left him the same ignorant
redneck that he was when he went to MIT and learned quite a  lot about
electronics, and nothing much about anything else.
How lucky we are to have you here to teach us about the rest.
Aren't you just a bit too full of yourself?
I'm entitled to give Jim a hard time. He notified his friends at the
FBI that I was dangerously anti-American, which was both foolish and
malicious. That fact that it must have destroyed any credibility he
might have had with his friends at the FBI should have been enough to
set him right, but he doesn't seem to have noticed that he made an ass
of himself.

As for being too full of myself, do find some proposition where you
can prove me wrong - it happens from time to time, but not very often,
and you don't promise to be a fruitful source of educational
information.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
cameo
2012-11-26 19:08:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Sloman
I'm entitled to give Jim a hard time. He notified his friends at the
FBI that I was dangerously anti-American, which was both foolish and
malicious. That fact that it must have destroyed any credibility he
might have had with his friends at the FBI should have been enough to
set him right, but he doesn't seem to have noticed that he made an ass
of himself.
Where do you get this thing about Jim and FBI? Sounds like a paranoid
delusion.
Post by Bill Sloman
As for being too full of myself, do find some proposition where you
can prove me wrong - it happens from time to time, but not very often,
and you don't promise to be a fruitful source of educational
information.
Well, at least I don't presume to do what you do here all day long:
peddling left-wing agit-prop as "education." Mybe you should try yo work
for a living at least part of the day. Didn't you write a while back
that you still wanted to work despite of your retirement age?
Bill Sloman
2012-11-26 22:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by Bill Sloman
I'm entitled to give Jim a hard time. He notified his friends at the
FBI that I was dangerously anti-American, which was both foolish and
malicious. That fact that it must have destroyed any credibility he
might have had with his friends at the FBI should have been enough to
set him right, but he doesn't seem to have noticed that he made an ass
of himself.
Where do you get this thing about Jim and FBI? Sounds like a paranoid
delusion.
It's his paranoid delusion - he's boasted about doing it here several
times.
I've got no evidence that he actually did anything, but he's not into
subtle humour.
Post by cameo
Post by Bill Sloman
As for being too full of myself, do find some proposition where you
can prove me wrong - it happens from time to time, but not very often,
and you don't promise to be a fruitful source of educational
information.
peddling left-wing agit-prop as "education."
You clearly haven't been exposed to left-wing agit-prop, if you get
restive about being exposed to the results of regular academic
sociological research.
Post by cameo
Maybe you should try to work for a living at least part of the day.
It's been an ambition for almost ten years now. While I was stuck in
the Netherlands, the endemic ageism made it a futile ambition - I got
a couple of job interviews before I turned 65, but nothing after
that. Australia isn't quite as bad - I've still yet to get a job
interview, but I've talked to a guy at an employment agency (who
didn't like my chances in the immediate future) and I'm going out this
afternoon to talk to a guy who might be able to use me if the right
customer shows up.
Post by cameo
Didn't you write a while back that you still wanted to work despite of your retirement age?
True. But the prospects aren't promising.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
cameo
2012-11-25 04:19:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by P E Schoen
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy
and lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such
people can be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is
cheaper than incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which
would cause massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
Indeed, but even so, there is a noticeable achievement gap between
American blacks and immigrant blacks. Initially those immigrants also
live in the same urban gettos, yet after a few years most of them are
able to move up to better jobs and neighborhoods. The big difference is
their value system, the presence of a father, and ambition to better
themselves. Such cultural change cannot be forced on the American blacks
by outsiders. It has to come from within. But that's not what is
preached by the black leaders, such as Jessy Jackson. Instead, they are
always telling their followers that their condition is the fault of the
white majority. Any successful black, who dares to stand up against them
are labelled as uncle toms, or worse.

Advancement has to start in the family which makes sure their kids do
attend school regularly, behave and obey the teachers when there. And,
of course, they do their home assignments as well. Parents, when their
children are disciplined in the school, should side with the teachers,
and not attack them as is too often the case.

Without these changes in the upringing of poor urban youth they cannot
be expected to have as successful adult lives as many of the poor
immigrants achieve who do bring with them a successful family model.
Bill Sloman
2012-11-25 06:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by P E Schoen
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy
and lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such
people can be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is
cheaper than incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which
would cause massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
Indeed, but even so, there is a noticeable achievement gap between
American blacks and immigrant blacks. Initially those immigrants also
live in the same urban gettos, yet after a few years most of them are
able to move up to better jobs and neighborhoods. The big difference is
their value system, the presence of a father, and ambition to better
themselves.
Actually, it's in growing up in a family that hasn't been taught that
being "uppity" is a life-threatening disorder.
There's been sociological work on how "caste" systems work, and it's
clear that the lower castes are well-trained in not threatening their
betters by humiliating displays of competence.

http://www.amazon.com/Inequality-Design-Cracking-Bell-Curve/dp/0691028982

included an interesting chapter on the way the black Americans did
poorly on IQ tests - on the questions of the tests that they did do
they did as well as whites, but they were much more likely to leave
whole sections unanswered. The authors pulled up some of the
sociological works on caste systems to explain what would seem to have
been going on.
Post by cameo
Such cultural change cannot be forced on the American blacks
by outsiders. It has to come from within.
Twaddle,
Post by cameo
But that's not what is preached by the black leaders, such as
Jessy Jackson. Instead, they are always telling their followers
that their condition is the fault of the white majority.
This does appear to be correct, if less than useful information.
Post by cameo
Any successful black, who dares to stand up against them
are labelled as uncle toms, or worse.
Ill-informed would be more accurate. The sufficiently energetic and
the able have always been able to clear social barriers at a single
bound, but what has worked for them isn't going to work for the less
gifted.
Post by cameo
Advancement has to start in the family which makes sure their kids do
attend school regularly, behave and obey the teachers when there. And,
of course, they do their home assignments as well. Parents, when their
children are disciplined in the school, should side with the teachers,
and not attack them as is too often the case.
In Australia, a study found that the best single indicator of success
at university was having a near relative who been to university.
Relatives by marriage worked just as well as blood relatives. You've
got to understand why homework is important before you can be expected
to insist that your kids complete their assignments.

And expecting parents to automatically side with teachers rather
depends on the teachers being 100% right. This isn't generally true,
and can make life difficult for a parent dealing with an ill-informed,
insecure or psychopathic teacher.
Post by cameo
Without these changes in the up-bringing of poor urban youth they cannot
be expected to have as successful adult lives as many of the poor
immigrants achieve who do bring with them a successful family model.
Rome wasn't built in a day, but it's a poor excuse for not getting on
and doing what you can to correct the errors of the past.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
josephkk
2012-11-26 09:31:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by P E Schoen
Post by amdx
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy and
lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such people can
be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
There are truly destitute people, mostly in Appalachia, who have relatively
good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter. Most poor
people from other countries value education and hard work and see
opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.
We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
with more benefits for having babies. All it would take, I think, is to
offer $5000 to anyone who will consent to being sterilized, or even as an
annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
Paul
Ya know Paul it is really astounding just how far you have bought into the
popular stereotypes. Disgusting.

See:

www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf


?-)
Bill Sloman
2012-11-26 12:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by josephkk
Post by P E Schoen
 I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
 Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy and
lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such people can
be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
There are truly destitute people, mostly in Appalachia, who have relatively
good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter. Most poor
people from other countries value education and hard work and see
opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.
We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
with more benefits for having babies. All it would take, I think, is to
offer $5000 to anyone who will consent to being sterilized, or even as an
annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
Ya know Paul it is really astounding just how far you have bought into the
popular stereotypes.  Disgusting.
www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf
I don't think that he is denying that teenage births are decreasing,
merely asserting that they remain too high.

Since he is also asserting that what's important is the proportion of
teenage mothers who are single parents, as opposed to mothers in a
stable and persisting relationship - an issue which your document
doesn't address at all - you aren't actually addressing the substance
of his comments.

One could reasonably argue that the decline in teenage birthrates has
been concentrated in the more responsible fraction of the female
teenage population, and that it's the residual population of feckless
nitwits who are still having children they can't look after properly,
let alone raise to become responsible adults.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Jim Thompson
2012-11-26 15:24:25 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 01:31:48 -0800, josephkk
Post by josephkk
Post by P E Schoen
Post by amdx
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy and
lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such people can
be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
There are truly destitute people, mostly in Appalachia, who have relatively
good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter. Most poor
people from other countries value education and hard work and see
opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.
We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
with more benefits for having babies. All it would take, I think, is to
offer $5000 to anyone who will consent to being sterilized, or even as an
annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
Paul
Ya know Paul it is really astounding just how far you have bought into the
popular stereotypes. Disgusting.
www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf
?-)
Paul is so leftist he lives in Maryland >:-}

Having had grandparents who lived there, Appalachia is full of poor
people, who have no debt, own their own home and farm land... and piss
on the Feds at every opportunity ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
cameo
2012-11-26 19:14:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
Having had grandparents who lived there, Appalachia is full of poor
people, who have no debt, own their own home and farm land... and piss
on the Feds at every opportunity ;-)
But I also heard that lately the Obama administration is trying to wean
them off that dangerous independent life style and convince them of the
advantages of food stamps and other available federal aid programs they
are "entitled" to.
Jim Thompson
2012-11-26 19:18:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by Jim Thompson
Having had grandparents who lived there, Appalachia is full of poor
people, who have no debt, own their own home and farm land... and piss
on the Feds at every opportunity ;-)
But I also heard that lately the Obama administration is trying to wean
them off that dangerous independent life style and convince them of the
advantages of food stamps and other available federal aid programs they
are "entitled" to.
Yep. I've heard that also. But I doubt if it'll "take". Even I have
to be careful driving back thru those hills... driving one of them
thar' furrin cars sets them off :-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Bill Sloman
2012-11-26 22:35:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by Jim Thompson
Having had grandparents who lived there, Appalachia is full of poor
people, who have no debt, own their own home and farm land... and piss
on the Feds at every opportunity ;-)
But I also heard that lately the Obama administration is trying to wean
them off that dangerous independent life style and convince them of the
advantages of food stamps and other available federal aid programs they
are "entitled" to.
And your evidence for this claim is?

Peasants come in a wide range of different varieties. Jim's family
might have owned their own farm, but they were active in the larger
economy, and wouldn't have been remotely eligible for food stamps.
Small farms don't support a particularly comfortable life-style, and
modern Europe has been "rationalising" agriculture for the past
century or so. In Australia, the number of people engaged in
agriculture peaked in the 1890's and has been declining every since as
mechanisation progressively increased the productivity of individual
agricultural workers.

Peasant farmers on small farms don't have the capital to mechanise
quite as dramatically, and rarely want to sell their land and more
into some other business, so the French and Germans have rationalised
their agriculture rather more slowly.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Bill Sloman
2012-11-26 22:21:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Thompson
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 01:31:48 -0800, josephkk
Post by josephkk
Post by P E Schoen
 I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
 Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy and
lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such people can
be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
There are truly destitute people, mostly in Appalachia, who have relatively
good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter. Most poor
people from other countries value education and hard work and see
opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.
We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
with more benefits for having babies. All it would take, I think, is to
offer $5000 to anyone who will consent to being sterilized, or even as an
annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
Paul
Ya know Paul it is really astounding just how far you have bought into the
popular stereotypes.  Disgusting.
www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf
?-)
Paul is so leftist he lives in Maryland >:-}
Having had grandparents who lived there, Appalachia is full of poor
people, who have no debt,
If they knew enough to be able to try to borrow money, the banks
wouldn't lend it to them
Post by Jim Thompson
own their own home and farm land... and piss
on the Feds at every opportunity ;-)
It's unlikely that they see the significance of any social
organisation outside of their 150-odd person tribe.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
pedro
2012-11-22 23:23:29 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:49:54 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
Post by petrus bitbyter
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
(snip interesting analysis)
Post by petrus bitbyter
In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
country and live here with impunity.
Michael A. Terrell
2012-11-22 23:47:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:49:54 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
Post by petrus bitbyter
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
(snip interesting analysis)
Post by petrus bitbyter
In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
country and live here with impunity.
No. His wife had a job there, but he's home to roost in OZ so you're
stuck with him now that she's retired.
Bill Sloman
2012-11-23 01:01:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:49:54 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
Post by petrus bitbyter
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
(snip interesting analysis)
Post by petrus bitbyter
In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
country and live here with impunity.
   No. His wife had a job there, but he's home to roost in OZ so you're
stuck with him now that she's retired.
She's retired from the job she had in the Netherlands, but is working
flat out over here.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
2012-11-23 00:59:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:49:54 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
Post by petrus bitbyter
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
(snip interesting analysis)
Post by petrus bitbyter
In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
country and live here with impunity.
Wrong. I had a long term residence permit in the Netherlands (which is
on the verge of expiring) but I was born in Burnie, Tasmania, of
Australian-born parents, with three Australian-born grandparents, and
I'm an Australian citizen.

One of my great-uncles (Leonard Woodward Turner, who was actually born
in the UK) fought at Gallipoli, got wounded there and died six weeks
later of those wounds on Lemnos.on the 27th July 1915. This is roughly
equivalent to having had an ancestor on the Mayflower, though the
Mayflower only carried 102 passengers, while the Gallipoli campaign
killed 8700 Australians.

Bill Sloman, Sydney
pedro
2012-11-23 06:15:02 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:59:22 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:49:54 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
Post by petrus bitbyter
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
(snip interesting analysis)
Post by petrus bitbyter
In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
country and live here with impunity.
Wrong.
My error.
Post by Bill Sloman
I had a long term residence permit in the Netherlands (which is
on the verge of expiring) but I was born in Burnie, Tasmania
That could explain a lot ...
Bill Sloman
2012-11-23 11:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by pedro
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:59:22 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
Post by Bill Sloman
Post by John Larkin
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:49:54 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
Post by petrus bitbyter
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
(snip interesting analysis)
Post by petrus bitbyter
In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
country and live here with impunity.
Wrong.
My error.
Post by Bill Sloman
I had a long term residence permit in the Netherlands (which is
on the verge of expiring) but I was born in Burnie, Tasmania
That could explain a lot ...
Burnie is on the North-West coast of Tasmania, where everybody seems
to have four grandparents (as I did, though they all lived in South
Australia). The guy who I usually beat out for top the boys as we went
through school is now professor of inorganic chemistry in Melbourne -
it wasn't your typical Tasmanian country town at the time.

http://www.worldcat.org/title/pulp-the-rise-and-fall-of-an-industry/oclc/745863311

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
cameo
2012-11-23 01:20:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by pedro
He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
country and live here with impunity.
Where do you get that he lives in the US? Last time I checked he lived
in Holland but AFAIK any Dutch can visit the US without visa.
cameo
2012-11-23 01:26:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by pedro
He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
country and live here with impunity.
Where do you get that he lives in the US? Last time I checked he lived
in Holland but AFAIK any Dutch can visit the US without visa.
Just to make sure, I was talking about Petrus as he was quoted in
Pedro's post.
pedro
2012-11-23 06:13:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by cameo
Post by pedro
He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
country and live here with impunity.
Where do you get that he lives in the US? Last time I checked he lived
in Holland but AFAIK any Dutch can visit the US without visa.
Just to make sure, I was talking about Petrus as he was quoted in
Pedro's post.
I was referring to Sloman, the person to whom I expect Petrus was in
turn referring.
cameo
2012-11-23 08:52:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by pedro
Post by cameo
Just to make sure, I was talking about Petrus as he was quoted in
Pedro's post.
I was referring to Sloman, the person to whom I expect Petrus was in
turn referring.
OK, I've got it now. I guess this time I was slow, man. ;-)
who where
2012-11-23 10:26:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameo
Post by pedro
Post by cameo
Just to make sure, I was talking about Petrus as he was quoted in
Pedro's post.
I was referring to Sloman, the person to whom I expect Petrus was in
turn referring.
OK, I've got it now. I guess this time I was slow, man. ;-)
No reason to beat yourself up.
cameo
2012-11-24 01:16:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by who where
No reason to beat yourself up.
No worry, just a little self-deprecating.
cameo
2012-11-23 00:50:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by petrus bitbyter
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
Good observations, Petrus!
mike
2012-11-24 15:35:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by petrus bitbyter
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
That says a lot!
Post by petrus bitbyter
petrus bitbyter
WhySoSerious?
2012-11-24 16:02:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike
Post by petrus bitbyter
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
That says a lot!
Post by petrus bitbyter
petrus bitbyter
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous
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