Discussion:
THREAT BY PRO-ILLEGAL ALIEN: "We'll unleash '20 million gang members' on U.S. citizens unless they halt border control efforts" (thanks Bush, Dems)
(too old to reply)
j***@yahoo.com
2005-12-25 02:31:35 UTC
Permalink
In a comment on a news report regarding the recent nocturnal
"storming" of a U.S. elected official's home by illegal aliens with
their open-borders enablers, which terrorized the U.S. woman and her
"This illegal immigration issue is already a lost cause. There is no
way you racist bigots can deport 20 million strong undocumented
population who are battle- hardened by a rough life. If you try to
deny them employment, they will do anything to feed their families, I
mean ANYTHING!!! They are not going back to Mexico. Do you want 20
million gang members walking around in your cities and neighborhoods?
I don't think so. I don't think your government will do anything about
it either."
[By the way, UFW union chief Cesar Chavez was STRONGLY opposed to
illegal immigration because he knew what EVERYONE knows, namely, that
it results in lower wages for U.S. citizens. Look it up!]
************************************************************************
Was this post informative? Consider printing it or emailing it to someone you know.
"A passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation . . . betrays [one nation] into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter . . .
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government.
"Nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded."
-- President George Washington
Farewell Address
Hopefully, there will be a great race/social war in America. And expect
nothing from the government.

Jay
p***@gmail.com
2005-12-25 03:13:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@yahoo.com
In a comment on a news report regarding the recent nocturnal
"storming" of a U.S. elected official's home by illegal aliens with
their open-borders enablers, which terrorized the U.S. woman and her
"This illegal immigration issue is already a lost cause. There is no
way you racist bigots can deport 20 million strong undocumented
population who are battle- hardened by a rough life. If you try to
deny them employment, they will do anything to feed their families, I
mean ANYTHING!!! They are not going back to Mexico. Do you want 20
million gang members walking around in your cities and neighborhoods?
I don't think so. I don't think your government will do anything about
it either."
[By the way, UFW union chief Cesar Chavez was STRONGLY opposed to
illegal immigration because he knew what EVERYONE knows, namely, that
it results in lower wages for U.S. citizens. Look it up!]
************************************************************************
Was this post informative? Consider printing it or emailing it to someone you know.
"A passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation . . . betrays [one nation] into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter . . .
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government.
"Nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded."
-- President George Washington
Farewell Address
Hopefully, there will be a great race/social war in America. And expect
nothing from the government.
I suppose anything is possible if people are gullible enough to believe
your lies. Don't count on it.
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Jay
Kane
J.M. Flagg
2005-12-25 04:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Hopefully, there will be a great race/social war in America.
Hopefully some moron with a chainsaw will saw your fucking HEAD off!!!!!
Morton Davis
2005-12-25 05:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.M. Flagg
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Hopefully, there will be a great race/social war in America.
Hopefully some moron with a chainsaw will saw your fucking HEAD off!!!!!
Without ever starting the saw.
J.M. Flagg
2005-12-25 05:04:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morton Davis
Post by J.M. Flagg
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Hopefully, there will be a great race/social war in America.
Hopefully some moron with a chainsaw will saw your fucking HEAD off!!!!!
Without ever starting the saw.
I LIKE it...
j***@lycos.com
2005-12-25 14:00:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morton Davis
Post by J.M. Flagg
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Hopefully, there will be a great race/social war in America.
Hopefully some moron with a chainsaw will saw your fucking HEAD off!!!!!
Without ever starting the saw.
I enjoyed your latest recording. "Moe Davis and the Shitskins".

John
Beav
2005-12-26 11:24:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morton Davis
Post by J.M. Flagg
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Hopefully, there will be a great race/social war in America.
Hopefully some moron with a chainsaw will saw your fucking HEAD off!!!!!
Without ever starting the saw.
Environmentally considerate too. It'd even make the tree huggers happy.
--
Beav
OMF#19
VN 750
Zed Thou

mail is beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com (with the obvious changes)
¿mÿ§t뮊@n?
2005-12-25 05:05:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.M. Flagg
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Hopefully, there will be a great race/social war in America.
Hopefully some moron with a chainsaw will saw your fucking HEAD off!!!!!
hey, I think I might be getting some ammo for Christmas!
J.M. Flagg
2005-12-25 05:15:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by ¿mÿ§t뮊@n?
Post by J.M. Flagg
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Hopefully, there will be a great race/social war in America.
Hopefully some moron with a chainsaw will saw your fucking HEAD off!!!!!
hey, I think I might be getting some ammo for Christmas!
Hollow points?
¿mÿ§t뮊@n?
2005-12-25 05:20:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.M. Flagg
Post by ¿mÿ§t뮊@n?
Post by J.M. Flagg
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Hopefully, there will be a great race/social war in America.
Hopefully some moron with a chainsaw will saw your fucking HEAD off!!!!!
hey, I think I might be getting some ammo for Christmas!
Hollow points?
168 gr BT hollow points. I peeked. I'll take care of my share of the
20 million.....
J.M. Flagg
2005-12-25 05:28:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by ¿mÿ§t뮊@n?
Post by J.M. Flagg
Post by ¿mÿ§t뮊@n?
Post by J.M. Flagg
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Hopefully, there will be a great race/social war in America.
Hopefully some moron with a chainsaw will saw your fucking HEAD off!!!!!
hey, I think I might be getting some ammo for Christmas!
Hollow points?
168 gr BT hollow points. I peeked. I'll take care of my share of the
20 million.....
Lol.

My RCBS press can't keep up...
e***@netpath.net
2005-12-25 05:30:42 UTC
Permalink
Starting a race war when you're only 12% of population in the area
of operations is STUPID. If mestizo gangs really want to, all they
will accomplish is not only their own deaths - but the deaths of most
innocent Hispanics in America as well.

No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
J.M. Flagg
2005-12-25 05:34:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@netpath.net
Starting a race war when
...It's fucking CHRISTMAS!!!

Ya, that kinda crap SUCKS!
j***@lycos.com
2005-12-25 13:46:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@netpath.net
Starting a race war when you're only 12% of population in the area
of operations is STUPID. If mestizo gangs really want to, all they
will accomplish is not only their own deaths - but the deaths of most
innocent Hispanics in America as well.
No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
Race war. Best thing that could happen. Eliminate the violent, deport
the remainder. A the typical hispanic birth rate they become a brown
pestilence, in fact, they are such a bio/cultural phenom. now.

John
Direct Action
2005-12-25 14:35:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@netpath.net
If mestizo gangs really want to, all they
will accomplish is not only their own deaths - but the deaths of most
innocent Hispanics in America as well.
I have no problem with that possibility whatever. The typical
"Hispanic" in the USA is an unwanted immigrant, the descendant of
illegal immigrants, or a refugee who has overstayed his temporary
welcome. Cleaning up America is long overdue, so let the mestizos bring
it on!
e***@netpath.net
2005-12-26 04:13:55 UTC
Permalink
The typical "Hispanic" in the USA is an unwanted immigrant, the descendant of
illegal immigrants, or a refugee who has overstayed his temporary welcome.
All of which is reflected in the dismal health and education
statistics for "Hispanics." I'd go even further - and note that a
high, and steadily-soaring, percentage of Mexican-descent people in
America must be either illegals or their first-generation children;
that's because of the huge daily influx of illegals while the "border
crossed my family" subset (brought in by the Mexican-American War) has
no such new influx of parents.

No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
0901453765
2005-12-26 10:05:30 UTC
Permalink
illegal immigrants

A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants" I believe
American INdians were in The US long before the British and erm/the
Spanish! came and killed everything they saw.
Remember, whoever you hate, will end up marrying one of your family
:-), even you must have some siblings-even if they are in care.
Direct Action
2005-12-26 17:10:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by 0901453765
A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants" I believe
American INdians were in The US long before the British and erm/the
Spanish! came and killed everything they saw.
Cheezus W. Keerist! You are either a total moron, or the gullible dupe
of Jewish propaganda. Perhaps both, if you believe your own idiotic
assertions.

How could the American "INdians" have been in "The US" long before my
ancestors, the founding fathers, started the country in 1776? John
Adams and Samuel Adams were my relatives, yannow. The United States
could not have existed before 1776.

And, you don't know jack shit about Indians.

The AmerInds did NOT consider themselves to be Americans, they
typically thought of themselves just as "The People", as though there
was no other tribe worthy of being called human.

My Mayflower direct ancestor, Richard Warren, arrived in America on
December 25, 1620, a member of a group of colonists with a charter in
hand from the king of England.

Richard's wife and daughters arrived on the third ship, the Anne, which
carried my Bartlett ancestors and the Delanos, ancestors of my
Roosevelt relatives.

Colonists are NOT immigrants. Colonists do not leave the jurisdiction
of one country and go to the jurisdiction of another country. They
remain within the governmental control of the mother country. The
British sent Governor Winthrop with the Mayflower party to maintain
government control.

As it happened, there had been a Native American village right there at
what the Indians called "Patuxent". Previous explorers had seen it in
1615. That was about the time that Tisquantum (AKA "Squanto") was
captured and taken to England to be a slave.

Tisquantum escaped and returned to his village. But his entire tribe
had died of smallpox. Tisquantum went to live with the Narragansett
tribe.

The Pilgrims were amazed to see that the land they had been given by
the charter was already cleared, but it was too late in the year for a
crop to be planted and the Pilgrims lived in half-finished shelters,
getting sick and dying of exposure. Half of them died that winter.

The Narragansetts considered the Pilgrims to be no threat, that they
were like children, floundering about, not knowing what crops to plant.
Tisquantum taught the Pilgrims to plant maize, the staple crop that had
made the great Meso-American culture possible.

And chief Massasoit of the Narragansetts saw no threat from the few,
apparently harmless Whites. He decided that if they wanted to live at
Patuxent, they could have the land.

So, history tells us that the Pilgrims were given the land from two
different sources, the British government and the Narragansett chief.

By 1623, my ancestor Richard Warren and Tisquantum were both dead.
Tisquantum seems to have died from some disease that causes bleeding
from the eyes, ears, and nose. It was called "the Indian disease".

The direct ancestor whose name I proudly bear arrived in 1628 with his
two brothers. They were not religious fanatics like the Pilgrims. They
took a walk about seven miles away from Salem and asked Prince John,
the son of an aged Indian chief if they could settle on Indian land.
Again, they were welcomed by the Indians, who had decided that they
liked the White man's way of life. Prince John was already living and
dressing as a European.

So there were two European houses built on Indian land at the site of
what later became Charles Town, MA.

By 1635, the Great Migration from England began. Hundreds of thousands
of Englishmen *migrated* from England to---New England, which was part
of the British Empire.

The Indians saw that they were in the minority, they signed a treaty
with the Englishmen to live by English law.

But there were still some problems with land. The Narragansetts and
other tribes began to realize that there was a diference in attitudes
about land when dealing with the Whites.

The new settlers didn't want the Indians on land that the Indians had
regarded as tribal hunting and fishing territories for centuries. The
Indians were willing to allow the Whites to hunt and fish there, but
the Whites didn't want the Indians to continue their ancient ways. The
Whites claimed that the land was *theirs*.

And, in fact, the land was *theirs*, they held the king's charter
granting it to them. By that time, there were two colonies in
Masachusetts, another in Connecticutt, and Rhode Island was about to
come into existence as Roger Williams *bought* land from the Indians.

But the Narragansetts were becoming angrier and angrier about Indians
giving or selling land to the Whites. The chiefs threatened to kill
Indians who sold or gave land away.

In 1635 my ancestors moved down to the new town of Hingham, MA, which
was founded by a new preacher from England, Hobart was his name as I
recall.

By 1675, a renegade Indian called "Metacomet" and also known as "King
Phillip" became angry at what he considered to be the unjust hanging of
three Indians who had been executed for violated some law they had
agreed to obey.

Metacomet led an insurrection in New England that became known as "King
Phillip's War". Approximately 5% of the population of new England was
murdered by the rebelling renegades. My ancestor's house in Hingham was
burned along with three other houses outside the palisade. His
father-in-law and brother-in-law were murdered by savages who hid in
the wheat field along the dirt road near his home. He defended himself
to the death, his broken musket was found beside his body.

Renegade Indians kidnapped other relatives and started marching them
toward Canada. When one could go no further, they crushed her head with
a rock. Others escaped. One relative was stripped by the renagades,
preparatory to being tortured to death, but he got away. Another
relative arrived at his own funeral and asked who was being buried
there.

Metacomet and a renegade chief named Canonchet were captured, tried for
treason, and were beheaded for their crimes against the people of New
England.
American
2005-12-26 21:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Direct Action
illegal immigrants
A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants"
That's BULLSHIT!

My ancestors were legal immigrants and most other peoples' too.

Quit trying to confuse illegals with all immigrants!
Post by Direct Action
I
believe American INdians were in The US long before the
British and erm/the Spanish! came and killed everything they
saw. Remember, whoever you hate, will end up marrying one of
your family
:-), even you must have some siblings-even if they are in care.
You sound really stupid!
--
American
United States of America
zadoc
2005-12-27 00:31:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by American
Post by Direct Action
illegal immigrants
A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants"
That's BULLSHIT!
My ancestors were legal immigrants and most other peoples' too.
Quit trying to confuse illegals with all immigrants!
When the first English colonies were established in the US, did they
have the approval of the majority of Indian tribes in the USA?

When the English landed at Botany Bay, did they seek the approval of
the indigenous Aboriginal tribes?

Nope, both times they would have used the legal doctrine of
_terra nullius_.

-----------------------------
terra nullius

Terra nullius is a Latin expression meaning "empty land" or "no man's
land". The term refers to a 17th century doctrine that described land
that was unclaimed by a sovereign recognized by European authorities
and land that was not owned at all.

During the 18th century the doctrine was used to give legal force for
the settlement of lands occupied by "backward" people, where no system
of laws or ownership of property was held to exist. The Swiss
philosopher and international law theorist Emerich de Vattel, building
on the philosophy of John Locke and others, proposed that terra
nullius also applied where the land was not cultivated by the
indigenous inhabitants. Since the land was not being cultivated, it
was not being put to good use and those who could cultivate the land
had a right to do so.

MORE at:

http://www.answers.com/topic/terra-nullius
Post by American
Post by Direct Action
I
believe American INdians were in The US long before the
British and erm/the Spanish! came and killed everything they
saw. Remember, whoever you hate, will end up marrying one of
your family
:-), even you must have some siblings-even if they are in care.
You sound really stupid!
And you sound?...

Cheers,


***@invalid.com.au
p***@gmail.com
2005-12-27 01:40:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by zadoc
Post by American
Post by Direct Action
illegal immigrants
A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants"
That's BULLSHIT!
My ancestors were legal immigrants and most other peoples' too.
Quit trying to confuse illegals with all immigrants!
When the first English colonies were established in the US, did they
have the approval of the majority of Indian tribes in the USA?
When the English landed at Botany Bay, did they seek the approval of
the indigenous Aboriginal tribes?
No, and both times they eventually started killing off their hosts.
Post by zadoc
Nope, both times they would have used the legal doctrine of
_terra nullius_.
Yep...but was it empty or did you just name two indigenous peoples?
Post by zadoc
-----------------------------
terra nullius
Terra nullius is a Latin expression meaning "empty land" or "no man's
land". The term refers to a 17th century doctrine that described land
that was unclaimed by a sovereign recognized by European authorities
and land that was not owned at all.
Yep. And had the natives of either land been informed of that doctrine
and had a vote ,what do you suppose they would have said and voted?
Post by zadoc
During the 18th century the doctrine was used to give legal force for
the settlement of lands occupied by "backward" people, where no system
of laws or ownership of property was held to exist.
Yes, the White Man's Burden.
Post by zadoc
The Swiss
philosopher and international law theorist Emerich de Vattel, building
on the philosophy of John Locke and others, proposed that terra
nullius also applied where the land was not cultivated by the
indigenous inhabitants.
Mmm...I like that one. There's a lot of uncultivated land I'd love to
take for my own. Whole national parks for that matter.
Post by zadoc
Since the land was not being cultivated, it
was not being put to good use and those who could cultivate the land
had a right to do so.
"Good" use? Hunted off of. Lived upon.

As the survivors of the great Cherokee nation if they did not
"cultivate" the land, as did the eastern tribes on up into Canada. I do
believe in fact we learned a bit of local farming methods from them.

Have you any idea what indian "maize" is and how much it's used today?
Corn.

It came out of the southwest I believe, possibly from what is now
Mexico, but had spread to nearly the entire continent by the time we
showed up.
Post by zadoc
http://www.answers.com/topic/terra-nullius
Post by American
Post by Direct Action
I
believe American INdians were in The US long before the
British and erm/the Spanish! came and killed everything they
saw. Remember, whoever you hate, will end up marrying one of
your family
:-), even you must have some siblings-even if they are in care.
You sound really stupid!
And you sound?...
No, no, he's obviously brilliant, as I'm overwhelmed with his
arguments.

Thank you for the thoughful contribution. It lends more weight to my
argument of pursuing, as the "winners" a doctrine of fairness. That is
if we want to finally sleep peacefully at night.
Post by zadoc
Cheers,
Happy New Year. Say hellow to any AU Kneelands you run across. Most if
not all are related in some manner to me. I can't recall now if they
came above or below, but I'd guess offhand, both.

Kane
Socialism is Slavery
2005-12-27 04:19:18 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:13:49 -0600, American
Post by American
Post by Direct Action
illegal immigrants
A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants"
That's BULLSHIT!
My ancestors were legal immigrants and most other peoples'
too.
Quit trying to confuse illegals with all immigrants!
When the first English colonies were established in the US,
did they have the approval of the majority of Indian tribes in
the USA?
There was no nation then, you pathetic moron, just hands full of
nomadic tribes! What an idiot! Retard!
--
Socialism enslaves kills & loots, achieving only the enslavement
of entire societies, destroying all human rights and bringing
them down into parasitism, misery, poverty and despair.
Morton Davis
2005-12-27 04:40:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Socialism is Slavery
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:13:49 -0600, American
Post by American
Post by Direct Action
illegal immigrants
A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants"
That's BULLSHIT!
My ancestors were legal immigrants and most other peoples'
too.
Quit trying to confuse illegals with all immigrants!
When the first English colonies were established in the US,
did they have the approval of the majority of Indian tribes in
the USA?
There was no nation then, you pathetic moron, just hands full of
nomadic tribes! What an idiot! Retard!
Not all tribes were nomadic. There were cltures, cities, nations of people.
Socialism is Slavery
2005-12-27 05:43:17 UTC
Permalink
"Socialism is Slavery"
Post by Socialism is Slavery
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:13:49 -0600, American
Post by American
Post by Direct Action
illegal immigrants
A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants"
That's BULLSHIT!
My ancestors were legal immigrants and most other peoples'
too.
Quit trying to confuse illegals with all immigrants!
When the first English colonies were established in the US,
did they have the approval of the majority of Indian tribes
in the USA?
There was no nation then, you pathetic moron, just hands full
of nomadic tribes! What an idiot! Retard!
Not all tribes were nomadic. There were cltures, cities,
nations of people.
Name some cities.
--
Socialism enslaves kills & loots, achieving only the enslavement
of entire societies, destroying all human rights and bringing
them down into parasitism, misery, poverty and despair.
p***@gmail.com
2005-12-27 06:55:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Socialism is Slavery
"Socialism is Slavery"
Post by Socialism is Slavery
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:13:49 -0600, American
Post by American
Post by Direct Action
illegal immigrants
A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants"
That's BULLSHIT!
My ancestors were legal immigrants and most other peoples' too.
Quit trying to confuse illegals with all immigrants!
When the first English colonies were established in the US,
did they have the approval of the majority of Indian tribes
in the USA?
There was no nation then, you pathetic moron, just hands full
of nomadic tribes! What an idiot! Retard!
Not all tribes were nomadic. There were cltures, cities,
nations of people.
Name some cities.
Just how much longer are you going to continue to make a complete fool
of yourself?

Know how I keep from doing it?

If I have a question for someone were I think I can stump them, I
RESEARCH BEFORE I ask it. You didn't, did you little boy?

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/may2001/peru-m26_prn.shtml
"Caral, 120 miles north of the Peruvian capital of Lima, is the oldest
city in the Americas."

Do you recall were the ancient city of the Aztecs was that the Spaniard
Cortez and his men conquered? I do believe that today it's called,
Mexico City...then it was, Tenochtitlan.

Then there was the Mayan, Chichen Izta, etc. and many that remain
unknown today by their orginal names, but cities nontheless with
infrastructure, industry, surrounding agricultural lands, ""We...
continued our march towards Itzapalapa. And when we saw all those
cities and villages built in the water, and other great towns on dry
land, and that straight and level causeway leading to Mexico, we were
astounded. These great towns and temples and buildings rising from the
water, all made of stone, seemed like an enchanted vision from the tale
of Amadis. Indeed, some of our soldiers asked whether it was not all a
dream...

Everything was shining with lime and decorated with different kinds of
stonework and paintings which were a marvel to gaze on.... I say again
that I stood looking at it, and thought that no land like it would ever
be discovered in the whole world, because at that time Peru was neither
known nor thought of. But today all that I then saw is overthrown and
destroyed; nothing is left standing."
-- Bernal Diaz, "The Conquest of New Spain" (1568)" .

In North American, and that's an artificial line that was not there in
those days, we had the Pueblo cities dependent almost entirely on
locally raised crops. Some very large complexes. What would you call
them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States
"Settling down

By 1500 B.C. many tribes had settled into small indigenous communities.
In several regions temporary hunter-gatherer settlements were
transformed into small permanent or semi-permanent settlements and
villages, frequently established in the regions such as river valleys
which were conducive to the raising of crops. Several such societies
and communities over time intensified this practice of established
settlements, and grew to support sizeable and concentrated populations.
Examples include those of the Mississippian Culture and the Pueblo
peoples (Anasazi). They constructed large and complex earthworks, and
were particularly skilled at small stone sculptures and engravings on
shell and copper. Agriculture was independently developed in what is
now the eastern United States by 2500 B.C., based on the domestication
of indigenous sunflower, squash and goosefoot. Eventually, in the last
eleven hundred years, the Mexican crops of corn and beans were adapted
to the shorter summers of eastern North American and replaced the
indigenous crops.

The large pueblos, or villages, built on top of rocky talleland or
mesas of Southwest around A.D. 700, were a complicated aggregate of
family apartments. Towns were one large complex of buildings, with
multistoried houses arranged around courtyards or plazas. Wooden
ladders provided access to upper levels. Under the courtyards,
subterranean kivas, or ceremonial structures, served as meeting rooms
for religious societies."

"During the 1100s and 1200s the Anasazi population began once again to
aggregate into large villages. This period is known as Pueblo III, and
it lasted until the final abandonment of the Four Corners country by
the Anasazi during the late 1200s. Numerous small unit pueblos
continued to be occupied during this period, but there was a tendency
for them to become more massive and to enclose the kivas within the
room block.

A number of very large villages developed. It was during this period
that most of the cliff villages such as the famous examples at Mesa
Verde National Park and Navajo National Monument were built.

During Pueblo III times the Mesa Verde Anasazi developed the
thick-walled, highly polished, incredibly beautiful pottery known as
Mesa Verde Black-on-White.

They also continued to make corrugated gray pottery. Redwares, often
with two- or three-color designs continued to be imported north of the
river from the Kayenta country. Arrowheads continued in the triangular,
side-notched form, but were often smaller than those of the previous
period.

Starting sometime after A.D. 1250 the Anasazi moved out of San Juan
County, often walking away from their settlements as though they
intended to return in a few minutes - or so it looks. Why did they
leave behind their beautiful cooking pots and baskets? Perhaps because
they had no means to transport them. When forced to migrate a long
distance, it was more efficient to leave the bulky items and replace
them after they reached their destination.

We do know that they moved south. Classic late Mesa Verde-style
settlements can still be recognized in New Mexico and Arizona, in high,
defensible locations in areas where the local Anasazi sites look quite
different. By A.D. 1400 almost all the Anasazi from throughout the
Southwest had aggregated into large pueblos scattered through the
drainages of the Little Colorado and Rio Grande rivers in Arizona and
New Mexico. Their descendants are still there in the few surviving
pueblos. "

http://www.crystalinks.com/cherokee.html
Legend of the Keetoowahs Cherokee occasionally refer to themselves as
Ani-Kituhwagi, (Keetoowah) 'the people of Kituhwagi', after the ancient
nucleus city of the Cherokee.

http://www.cherokeeheritagetrails.org/vonore_home.html
" ... This story foretells the survival of the Cherokee people, and so
it is no surprise that it is located at Old Echota, one of the three
original Cherokee cities where the sacred fire burned. Although Old
Echota and several Overhill towns have been submerged under Tellico
Lake, as has the village of Tugaloo, the location of the sacred fire
for the Lower Towns, the Cherokee people still survive and are
preserving Kituwah, center of sacred fire for the Middle Towns, and the
first Cherokee village. ... "

Now of course I know you chose 'cities' out of my claim because you
were sure there were no such things, but in fact in some places,
central America for instance, they had cities contemporanious with
cities of ancient Egypt and Mespotamia.

And cities are not determined by size, but characteristics. If they had
the amenities of cities they were then cities.

Or did you wish there to be automobiles to prove your point?

Want to try me on "cultures" and "nations" now?

The point being, child, we did not come into an empty land. We were
simply conquerors.

And in fact the brits were known for it, along with other nations of
europe, some represented here. German once was the most common language
in this country, and Dutch was widespread. In some portions Spanish was
the predominate language, so it's real hard to say that this is a
country that always spoke english, that was an empty waste or unused
undeveloped land when we came.

Do you understand some of my arguments better now?

Did you read that long piece on native/white history in colonial times
that I put here earlier?

0:->
Post by Socialism is Slavery
--
Socialism enslaves kills & loots, achieving only the enslavement
of entire societies, destroying all human rights and bringing
them down into parasitism, misery, poverty and despair.
Gunner Asch
2005-12-27 07:59:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@gmail.com
Post by Socialism is Slavery
Post by Morton Davis
Not all tribes were nomadic. There were cltures, cities,
nations of people.
Name some cities.
Just how much longer are you going to continue to make a complete fool
of yourself?
Know how I keep from doing it?
If I have a question for someone were I think I can stump them, I
RESEARCH BEFORE I ask it. You didn't, did you little boy?
The English colonists encountered the Anazai and the Incas?

Been reading too much Turtledove again?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
Gunner Asch
2005-12-27 07:57:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morton Davis
Post by Socialism is Slavery
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:13:49 -0600, American
Post by American
Post by Direct Action
illegal immigrants
A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants"
That's BULLSHIT!
My ancestors were legal immigrants and most other peoples'
too.
Quit trying to confuse illegals with all immigrants!
When the first English colonies were established in the US,
did they have the approval of the majority of Indian tribes in
the USA?
There was no nation then, you pathetic moron, just hands full of
nomadic tribes! What an idiot! Retard!
Not all tribes were nomadic. There were cltures, cities, nations of people.
Only in South America of any note. The 7 Nations was a loose
confederation of semi-nomadic hunter gatherers.

Because they may have had a meeting house..doesnt make the surrounds a
"city"

As for culture, of course they did. So do the Bedouins. And THEIR
cities are where again?

I strongly suggest you do a bit more research than 4th grade history
when attempting to post on the subject.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
p***@gmail.com
2005-12-27 05:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Socialism is Slavery
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:13:49 -0600, American
Post by American
Post by Direct Action
illegal immigrants
A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants"
That's BULLSHIT!
My ancestors were legal immigrants and most other peoples'
too.
Quit trying to confuse illegals with all immigrants!
When the first English colonies were established in the US,
did they have the approval of the majority of Indian tribes in
the USA?
There was no nation then, you pathetic moron, just hands full of
nomadic tribes! What an idiot! Retard!
You watch too much TV and probably the old movie channel.

There were native nations here. And most, not a few, MOST were not
nomadic.

That's from one end of this country and from each ocean to the other.

"Nations" were often made up of many tribes and bands that lived over a
wide area. They likely travelled less than modern americans.

Travel was mostly for trade. The only areas were nomadic was were they
followed the herds in the west. That was not even a majority nation.
And those people came out of the midwest where they had in fact been
sedentary farmers, and part time hunters and fishers.

You are pretty ignorant, aren't you child?

U.S. Census 2000

* American Indian and Alaska Native Tribes in United States (PDF)

Northeast
Abenaki, Algonkin, Beothuk, Delaware, Erie, Fox, Huron, Illinois,
Iroquois, Kickapoo, Mahican, Mascouten, Massachuset, Mattabesic,
Menominee, Metoac, Miami, Micmac, Mohegan, Montagnais, Narragansett,
Nauset, Neutrals, Niantic, Nipissing, Nipmuc, Ojibwe, Ottawa,
Pennacook, Pequot, Pocumtuck, Potawatomi, Sauk, Shawnee, Susquehannock,
Tionontati, Wampanoag, Wappinger, Wenro, Winnebago.

[[ Among the above people that maintained permanent settlements, and in
fact taught early settlers farming skills for the ecosystems of their
area. ]]]

Southeast
Acolapissa, Asis, Alibamu, Apalachee, Atakapa, Bayougoula, Biloxi,
Calusa, Catawba, Chakchiuma, Cherokee, Chesapeake Algonquin, Chickasaw,
Chitamacha, Choctaw, Coushatta, Creek, Cusabo, Gaucata, Guale,
Hitchiti, Houma, Jeags, Karankawa, Lumbee, Miccosukee, Mobile, Napochi,
Nappissa, Natchez, Ofo, Powhatan, Quapaw, Seminole, Southeastern
Siouan, Tekesta, Tidewater Algonquin, Timucua, Tunica, Tuscarora,
Yamasee, Yuchi.

[[[ These were members of great Nations, states, really. And had
massive farming enterprizes in rich bottomlands along the nations major
river valleys of the Southeast. I doubt you could call any of them
"nomadic" though I don't doubt they travelled for trade. ]]]

Plains
Arapaho, Arikara, Assiniboine, Bidai, Blackfoot, Caddo, Cheyenne,
Comanche, Cree, Crow, Dakota (Sioux), Gros Ventre, Hidatsa, Iowa,
Kansa, Kiowa, Kiowa-Apache, Kitsai, Lakota (Sioux), Mandan, Metis,
Missouri, Nakota (Sioux), Omaha, Osage, Otoe, Pawnee, Ponca, Sarsi,
Sutai, Tonkawa, Wichita.

[[[ The "tribes" and bands above were not all nomadic, and many too
were closely aligned into Nations. You'll see three "Sioux" above, and
they all immigrated out of the upper midwest onto the plains centuries
before the whites came to their lands. ]]]

Great Basin
Bannock, Paiute (Northern), Paiute (Southern), Sheepeater, Shoshone
(Northern), Shoshone (Western), Ute, Washo.

Plateau
Carrier, Cayuse, Coeur D'Alene, Colville, Dock-Spus, Eneeshur,
Flathead, Kalispel, Kawachkin, Kittitas, Klamath, Klickitat, Kosith,
Kutenai, Lakes, Lillooet, Methow, Modac, Nez Perce, Okanogan, Palouse,
Sanpoil, Shushwap, Sinkiuse, Spokane, Tenino, Thompson, Tyigh,
Umatilla, Wallawalla, Wasco, Wauyukma, Wenatchee, Wishram, Wyampum,
Yakima.

Southwest
Apache (Eastern), Apache (Western), Chemehuevi, Coahuiltec, Hopi, Jano,
Manso, Maricopa, Mohave, Navaho, Pai, Papago, Pima, Pueblo, Yaqui,
Yavapai, Yuman, Zuni. ** Am strongly thinking about breaking the Pueblo
into: Acoma, Cochiti, Isleta, Jemez, Laguna, Nambe, Picuris, Pojoaque,
Sandia, San Felipe, San Ildefonso, San Juan, Santa Ana, Santa Clara,
Santo Domingo, Taos, Tesuque, Zia.

Northwest
Calapuya, Cathlamet, Chehalis, Chemakum, Chetco, Chilluckkittequaw,
Chinook, Clackamas, Clatskani, Clatsop, Cowich, Cowlitz, Haida, Hoh,
Klallam, Kwalhioqua, Lushootseed, Makah, Molala, Multomah, Oynut,
Ozette, Queets, Quileute, Quinault, Rogue River, Siletz, Taidhapam,
Tillamook, Tutuni, Yakonan.

California
Achomawi, Atsugewi, Cahuilla, Chimariko, Chumash, Costanoan, Esselen,
Hupa, Karuk, Kawaiisu, Maidu, Mission Indians, Miwok, Mono, Patwin,
Pomo, Serrano, Shasta, Tolowa, Tubatulabal, Wailaki, Wintu, Wiyot,
Yaha, Yokuts, Yuki, Yuman (California).

[[ Many of these tribes were members of Nations. ]]
Post by Socialism is Slavery
--
Socialism enslaves kills & loots, achieving only the enslavement
of entire societies, destroying all human rights and bringing
them down into parasitism, misery, poverty and despair.
That's why we need to get rid of the two party system, socialism in
disguise.

0:->
p***@gmail.com
2005-12-27 05:34:46 UTC
Permalink
In fact this was a land full of people when whites arrived. It became
empty of the natives because of us.

http://www.tolatsga.org/Compacts.html


Compact Histories Graphic.skk

First Nations Histories
(Revised 10.4.02)

Abenaki | Acolapissa | Algonkin | Bayougoula | Beothuk | Catawba |
Cherokee | Chickasaw | Chitimacha | Comanche | Delaware | Erie | Houma
| Huron | Illinois | Iroquois | Kickapoo | Mahican | Mascouten |
Massachusett | Mattabesic | Menominee | Metoac | Miami | Micmac |
Mohegan | Montagnais | Narragansett | Nauset] Neutrals | Niantic]
Nipissing | Nipmuc | Ojibwe | Ottawa | Pennacook | Pequot | Pocumtuc |
Potawatomi | Sauk and Fox | Shawnee | Susquehannock | Tionontati |
Tsalagi | Wampanoag | Wappinger | Wenro | Winnebago |

First Nations Search Tool

Geographic Overview of First Nations Histories
Compact Histories Bibliography

Location List of the Native Tribes of the US and Canada

There is a small graphic logo available on this page
for anyone wishing to use it for the purposes of
linking back to the First Nations
Compact Histories.

Please Note:

These Compact Histories are presented here to provide information to
those interested in learning more about the First Nations. Lee Sultzman
has authored all of the Histories.

They are NOT here to provide spoon fed information for "school
reports." Accordingly we are not interested in any questions asking for
help in completing your school assignment.

As to those who question our credibility, you may take us or leave us.
These Histories were written and assembled as a labor-of-love. Take
them or leave them, period.

Abenaki

Native Americans have occupied northern New England for at least
10,000 years. There is no proof these ancient residents were ancestors
of the Abenaki, but there is no reason to think they were not.


Acolapissa

The mild climate of the lower Mississippi required little clothing.
Acolapissa men limited themselves pretty much to a breechcloth, women a
short skirt, and children ran nude until puberty. With so little
clothing with which to adorn themselves, the Acolapissa were fond of
decorating their entire bodies with tattoos. In cold weather a buffalo
robe or feathered cloak was added for warmth.

up
Algonkin

If for no other reason, the Algonkin would be famous because their
name has been used for the largest native language group in North
America. The downside is the confusion generated, and many people do
not realize there actually was an Algonkin tribe, or that all
Algonquins do not belong to the same tribe. Although Algonquin is a
common language group, it has many many dialects, not all of which are
mutually intelligible.


Bayougoula

Dogs were the only animal domesticated by Native Americans before
the horse, but the Bayougoula in 1699 kept small flocks of turkeys. The
tribes of the lower Mississippi were also unique in that tribal
territories were well defined. Decorated with fish heads and bear
bones, a large red post near the mouth of the Red River marked the
boundary between the Bayougoula and the Houma just to the north.
Translated into French, the location of this "Red Post" became known as
Baton Rouge, the present-day capital of Louisiana.

up
Beothuk

One thing that is known about the Beothuk was their love of the
color red. While the use of red ocre was common among Native Americans,
no other tribe used it as extensively as the Beothuk. They literally
covered everything - their bodies, faces, hair, clothing, personal
possessions, and tools - with a red paint made from powdered ochre
mixed with either fish oil or animal grease. It was also employed in
burials. The reasons are unknown, but speculation has ranged from their
religion (about which we know very little) to protection from insects.
The practice was so excessive, even the Micmac referred to them as the
Red Indians, and it is believed the term "redskin" used for Native
Americans probably originated from early contacts between European
fishermen and Beothuk.


Catawba

Catawba warriors had a fearsome reputation and an appearance to
match: ponytail hairstyle with a distinctive war paint pattern of one
eye in a black circle, the other in a white circle and remainder of the
face painted black. Coupled with their flattened foreheads, some of
their enemies must have died from sheer fright.

up
Chickasaw

Although generally the least known of the Five Civilized Tribes
(Chickasaw, Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek, Seminole), no other tribe played
a more significant role in Britain's victory over France for control of
North America. Variously described as the Unconquered and Unconquerable
or the Spartans of the lower Mississippi Valley, the Chickasaw were the
most formidable warriors of the American Southeast, and anyone who
messed with them came to regret it, if they survived! British traders
from the Carolinas were quick to recognize their prowess in this regard
and armed the Chickasaw to the teeth, after which, no combination of
the French and their native allies was able to dislodge the Chickasaw
from the stranglehold they imposed upon French commerce on the lower
Mississippi. The Chickasaw could cut New France in two, which seriously
crippled the French in any war with the British. From the high ground
overlooking the Mississippi River at Memphis, the Chickasaw took on all
comers, including tribes four to five times their size and never lost
until they picked the wrong side in the American Civil War. Even then,
the Chickasaw Nation was the last Confederate government to surrender
to Union forces.


Chitimacha

To enhance their appearance, the Chitimacha flattened the foreheads
of their male children. Most men wore their hair long, but there were
occasional reports of some of their warriors having a scalplock. With
the mild climate, male clothing was limited to a breechcloth which
allowed a display of their extensive tattooing of the face, body, arms
and legs. Women limited themselves to a short skirt. Their hair was
also worn long but usually braided. Socially, the Chitimacha were
divided into matrilineal (descent traced through the mother) totemic
(named for an animal) clans. The most distinctive characteristic of
Chitimacha society was their strict caste system of two ranked groups:
nobles and commoners. The separation between them included the use of
two distinct dialects with commoners required to address nobles in the
proper language. The Chitimacha were unique among Native Americans with
their practice of strict endogamy (a person can only marry someone from
their own group). A noble man or woman who married a commoner forfeited
their higher status.

up
Comanche

Stealing horses was common among the plains tribes, but like
everything else concerning the horse, Comanches did it on a grand
scale. As the number of Spanish horses in New Mexico became inadequate,
Comanche raids reached south into Texas and Mexico. By 1775 the Spanish
governor of New Mexico was complaining that, despite constant re-supply
from Mexico, Comanche raiders had stolen so many horses he did not have
enough to pursue them.

The Comanche epitomized the mounted plains warrior. Until the
1750s, they often employed leather armor and large body shields to
protect both horse and rider. This changed with increased use of
firearms and quickly changed into the stereotypical light cavalry
tactics associated with plains warfare. This development first forced
the Spanish, and later Texans and Americans, to cope with a new style
of mounted warfare. They did not do very well at first. European
cavalry had evolved into heavy-armed dragoons designed to break
massed-infantry formations. There was no way these soldiers could stay
with mounted Comanches who usually left them eating dust ..if they
could find them in the first place. The Texas Rangers were organized
during the 1840s primarily to fight Comanches. A decade later, when the
American army began to assume much of the Rangers' responsibility, it
had much to learn.


Delaware

Finding the Moravians at Gnadenhuetten, Williamson placed them
under arrest. In the democratic style of frontier militia, a vote was
taken whether to take the prisoners back to Fort Pitt or kill them. The
decision was to execute them. The Moravians were given the night to
prepare. In the morning, two slaughter houses were selected, and 90
Christian Delaware - 29 men, 27 women, and 34 children - were taken
inside in small groups and beaten to death with wooden mallets. Among
the victims was old Abraham, a Mahican and the first Moravian convert
in Pennsylvania. Afterwards, the troops burned Gnadenhuetten and the
other Moravian missions. Then loaded down with plunder from their
victims, they went home to their wives and children in Pennsylvania.

up
Erie

With French contact limited to one brief meeting, very little is
known for certain about the Erie except they were important, and they
were there. The Dutch and Swedes also heard about them through their
trade with the Susquehannock, but never actually met the Erie. All
information about their social and political organization has come from
early Jesuit accounts of what they had been told by the Huron.


Houma

...as darkness fell the interior was illuminated by enormous (15'
high, two feet thick) cane torches. The Houma men were fairly tall,
averaging about 5' 10" with breechcloths extending to the knee with a
mantle of turkey feathers added for warmth or decoration. Women were
bare to the waist with a short skirt. Both sexes wore their hair long
and braided, and there was extensive use of body and face tattooing.
The French also noticed that the older Houma men, including the chief,
had flattened foreheads, but the practice seemed to be ending, since
none of the younger men had their appearance altered in this manner.
Agriculture provided most of the Houma diet, and the village was
surrounded by fields in which they grew corn, beans, squash, melons and
sunflowers. Hunting and fishing, using dugout rather than birchbark
canoes, provided the remainder.

up
Huron

Americans often do not realize that Huron and Wyandot are the same
people. Originally, more than a dozen Iroquoian-speaking tribes of
southern Ontario referred to themselves as Wendat meaning "island
people" or "dwellers on a peninsula." Rendered variously as: Guyandot,
Guyandotte, Ouendat, Wyandot, and Wyandotte. The French, however,
called members of a four-tribe confederacy Huron, a derogatory name
derived from their word "hure" meaning rough or ruffian. This has
persisted as their usual name in Canada.


Illinois

The destruction of the Illini after contact is one of the great
tragedies in North American history. By the time American settlement
reached them during the early 1800s, the Illini were nearly extinct and
replaced by other tribes. For the most part, the blame for this could
not be placed on a war with the Europeans or the Illini refusal to
adapt themselves to a changing situation. Actually, few tribes had
adapted as much or attached themselves more closely to the French. This
made it easy to place responsibility for the fate of the Illini on
their native enemies, or perhaps even nature itself, and for this
reason, their sad story became a favorite romanticized explanation of
the Native American's "ride into the sunset" to prepare the way for the
advance of "civilization." However, stripped of this embellishment, the
story of the Illini's decline is a chilling indication of how the
European presence, regardless of purpose or intention, unleashed
destructive forces upon North America's native peoples which reached
far beyond the immediate areas of their colonization.

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Iroquois

"Simply put, the Iroquois were the most important native group in
North American history....Other than clearing fields and building
villages, the primary occupation of the men was warfare. Warriors wore
their hair in a distinctive scalplock (Mohawk of course), although
other styles became common later. While the men carefully removed all
facial and body hair, women wore theirs long. Tattoos were common for
both sexes. Torture and ritual cannibalism were some of the ugly traits
of the Iroquois..."


Kickapoo

By common tradition, the Kickapoo and Shawnee believe they were
once a single tribe but separated after an argument over a bear's paw.

[The Kickapoo's] most distinctive characteristic has been a
stubborn resistance to acculturization with the white man, and it is
difficult to think of another group of Native Americans which has gone
to such lengths to avoid this. The tendency of the Kickapoo to avoid
direct contact has made it easy to dismiss them as unimportant.
Although they never played a lead role, the Kickapoo, like a good
character actor, were involved in so many things that their overall
contribution was enormous. While reading their history, they seem to
disappear at times into a story of another people, only to suddenly
resurface in another place and time. Years after the leading tribes
with the famous names were gone, the Kickapoo were still in the midst
of the struggle to preserve native America.

up
Mahican

When James Fenimore Cooper wrote "Last of the Mohicans" in 1826 he
made the Mahican famous. Unfortunately, he also made them extinct in
many minds and confused their name and history with the Mohegan from
eastern Connecticut. This error has persisted, and most Americans today
would be surprised to learn that the Mahican are very much alive and
living in Wisconsin under an assumed name, Stockbridge Indians.


Mascouten

We have no idea what they called themselves. Mascouten apparently
comes from a Fox word meaning "little prairie people." In its various
forms: Mascoutin, Mathkoutench, Musketoon, Meadow Indians (George
Rogers Clark's journal), and possibly Rasaouakoueton (Nicollet). Aside
from Nicollet, the earliest mention of the Mascouten was by the French
which used their Huron name, Assistaeronon (Assitaehronon,
Assitagueronon, Attistae) which translates as Fire Nation (Nation of
Fire).

up
Massachusett

Contact with Europeans probably occurred at an early date, perhaps
as soon as John Cabot in 1497, but they were first mentioned
specifically by Captain John Smith when he explored the coast of New
England in 1614. Disaster struck immediately afterwards in the form of
three separate epidemics that swept across New England between 1614 and
1617 destroying 3/4 of the original native population.


Mattabesic

Mention is often made of the Wappinger and Mattabesic
Confederations, but these organizations never really existed. In truth,
the Mattabesic and Wappinger were not even tribes within the usual
meaning of the word. What they really were was a collection of a dozen,
or so, small tribes which spoke Algonquin, shared a common culture, and
occupied a defined geographic area. The name of the Mattabesic comes
from a single village that was on the Connecticut River near
Middletown.

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Menominee

A most noteworthy characteristic of the Menominee was their amazing
ability to survive as an independent tribe in the midst of large and
powerful neighbors: Dakota, Ojibwe, and Winnebago. Their initial
resistance to encroachment almost resulted in their destruction, but
the Menominee adapted to the changed situation and maintained good
relations with these tribes.


Metoac

The Metoac had the misfortune to occupy Long Island which was
regarded as the source of the best wampum in the Northeast. Each summer
from the waters of Long Island Sound the Metoac harvested clam shells
which, during the winter, were painstakingly fashioned into small beads
they called "wampompeag" - shortened later by the English into the more
familiar form "wampum." To the Dutch traders, it was siwan (sewan). The
Metoac traded this to other tribes (most notably the Mahican) and
prospered as a result.

up
Miami

Among other tribes in the region, the Miami had the reputation of
being slow-spoken and polite but had an inclination towards fancy
dress, especially their chiefs. Tattooing was common to both sexes, and
like the neighboring Illinois, there were harsh penalties for female
adulterers who were either killed or had their noses cut off.


Micmac

Together with the Beothuk on Newfoundland, the Micmac were probably
the first Native Americans to have regular contact with Europeans. This
may have occurred as early as the 11th century with the early Viking
settlements on the coast of North America, or perhaps with Basque
fishermen who visited the Grand Banks before Columbus' voyage in 1492
but kept quiet about where they were catching all their fish. The first
known contact was made in 1497 by John Cabot who took three Micmac with
him when he returned to England. The Micmac may not have appreciated
this, since Cabot disappeared in the same area during his second voyage
a few years later.

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Mohegan

Mohegan means wolf. So does Mahican, but these are the names of two
distinct Algonquin tribes with different locations and histories. It is
all too common for the Mohegan of the Thames River in eastern
Connecticut to be confused with the Mahican from the middle Hudson
Valley in New York (a distance of about a hundred miles). Even James
Fenimore Cooper got confused when he wrote "Last of the Mohicans" in
1826. Since Cooper lived in Cooperstown, New York and the location of
his tale was the upper Hudson Valley, it can presumed that he meant
Mahican, but the spelling variation chosen (Mohican) and his use of
Uncas' name really has muddled things.


Montagnais

Diet relied heavily on the hunting of moose and seal but with a
heavy reliance on fishing for salmon and eel. Montagnais considered
porcupine a delicacy. So much so, they were sometimes referred to as
the "Porcupine Indians."

up
Narragansett

Mason's army eventually reached Mystic undiscovered. Trapping 700
Pequot inside the fort while their warriors were absent, Mason and his
men set it afire killing all who tried to escape. The massacre broke
the Pequot, but the Narragansett were aghast at the amount of
unnecessary slaughter. Shortly afterwards, the Pequot abandoned their
villages, separated into small groups, and fled for their lives. They
were easy prey and few escaped. The English, Narragansett, and Mohegan
tracked them down, capturing some and killing the rest. The English
were determined to destroy the Pequot completely. They executed all of
their male prisoners and sold the women and children as slaves to the
West Indies. 1,500 Pequot and western Niantic managed to surrender and
were placed under the control of Uncas and the Mohegan. They were not
treated well.


Nauset

Shortly after Columbus' voyage to the New World in 1492, a steady
stream of European explorers, fishermen, and adventurers began regular
visits to the coast of New England. Located on a landmark as obvious as
Cape Cod, the Nauset had contact with Europeans at an early date, but
these first meetings were not always friendly.

up
Neutrals

In 1641 2,000 warriors of the Neutrals attacked a large, fortified
Asistagueronon village in central Michigan (presumed by location to
have been Mascouten). After a ten-day siege, the village was overrun,
and 800 prisoners taken. Women and children were taken back to the
Neutrals' villages, but the men were blinded and then left to wander
aimlessly in the woods until they starved to death.


Niantic

It appears that the Niantic occupied the entire coastline of
eastern Connecticut as a single tribe before they were physically
separated by an invasion of the Pequot-Mohegan from the northwest
shortly before the Pilgrims arrived at Plymouth in 1620. The warfare
and conquest apparently coincided with the devastating wave of
epidemics which swept New England (1614-17).

up
Nipissing

Probably their most interesting feature was their reputation among
other tribes for the spiritual power of their shamans. Unfortunately,
some of their neighbors were also prone to accusing them of sorcery as
a result.


Nipmuc

The Nipmuc generally lived along rivers or on the shores of small
lakes and seem to have occupied the area for as far back as can be
told. Like other New England Algonquin, the Nipmuc were agricultural.
They changed locations according to the seasons, but always remained
within the bounds of their own territory. Part of their diet came from
hunting, fishing, and gathering of wild food, but as a rule they did
not live as well as the coastal tribes who had the luxury of seafood.
Each group was ruled by its own sachem, but there was very little
political organization beyond the village or band level.

up
Ojibwe

To end any confusion, the Ojibwe and Chippewa are not only the same
tribe, but the same word pronounced a little differently due to accent.
If an "O" is placed in front of Chippewa (O'Chippewa), the relationship
becomes apparent. Ojibwe is used in Canada, although Ojibwe west of
Lake Winnipeg are sometime referred to as the Saulteaux. In United
States, Chippewa was used in all treaties and is the official name.


Ottawa

They remember a mysterious tin box given them by British traders
shortly after the war, which they were told not to open until they got
back to their villages. They did as instructed, but there was nothing
inside other than a strange brown powder. Immediately afterwards, an
especially deadly smallpox epidemic broke out which decimated their
villages in northern Michigan.

up
Pennacook

By 1726 they were a single village near Concord with only five men,
and before they "rode off into the sunset," the "Last of the Pennacook"
saved some of the colonists from starving that winter. All of which was
probably true regarding this one group, but the Pennacook themselves
had not disappeared. For that matter, neither had the Pocumtuc, the
Nipmuc, the Abenaki, or the other tribes that New England history has
found convenient to declare extinct. They continued as the St. Francois
Indians, the Bcancour Abenaki, and the Vermont Abenaki. Although often
thought of as Canadian Indians and French allies, they were, in fact,
the original residents of New England.


Pequot

Most older histories of Native Americans begin with vague
descriptions of where tribes came from before Europeans "discovered"
them. This leaves the false impression that Native Americans were
always on the move. Actually, migration was rare until settlement
displaced the eastern tribes and began a chain reaction of movement to
the west. New England Algonquin occupied their homelands for hundreds,
perhaps thousands, of years before the Europeans arrived in North
America. The Pequot-Mohegan, however, were an exception to this. From
their own traditions (confirmed by linguistic links and other tribal
histories), they originally came from the upper Hudson Valley -
probably the shores of Lake Champlain. When they lived there, they may
well have been the mysterious Adirondack who dominated the separate
tribes of the Iroquois for many years before the formation of the
Iroquois League.

up
Pocumtuc

Like other New England Algonquin, the Pocumtuc were an agriculture
people who lived in one of the most fertile farming areas in New
England. Their homeland also abounded with game, and during the spring
they were able to take advantage of large fish runs up the Connecticut
and its tributaries. Besides the obvious north-south transportation
provided by the Connecticut River (Quinnitukqut "long river"), the
Pocumtuc homeland sat astride several important east-west trade routes,
including the Mohawk Trail, which linked Native Americans in the
interior with those on the Atlantic coast.


Potawatomi

The Potawatomi name is a translation of the Ojibwe "potawatomink"
meaning "people of the place of fire." Similar renderings of this are:
Fire Nation, Keepers of the Sacred Fire, and People of the Fireplace -
all of which refer to the role of the Potawatomi as the keeper of the
council fire in an earlier alliance with the Ojibwe and Ottawa.

up
Sauk and Fox

In September Piankashaw and Wea warriors led by de Noyelle arrived
from a Miami post with instructions from the Governor of Canada that no
peace was to be made with Fox. Apparently some Sauk ignored this order
and provided the Fox with food, but it was not enough. Surrounded by
over 1,400 warriors, the Fox fought off everything, but their food and
water gave out. They began throwing their children out of the fort,
telling their enemies to eat them. Many apparently were adopted by
other tribes, but the fate of their parents was far worse. After 23
days, a thunderstorm struck on the night of September 8th, and the Fox
took advantage of this to break out and flee. They did not make it. The
French and their allies caught up and killed between 600 and 800 of
them. There were no prisoners.


Shawnee

In desperation, Amherst wrote the commander at Fort Pitt, Captain
Simeon Ecuyer, suggesting he deliberately attempt to infect the
Shawnee, Delaware, and Mingo besieging his fort with gifts of
smallpox-infected blankets and handkerchiefs. Ecuyer took this as an
order and did exactly that. It proved particularly effective...

up
Susquehannock

The Susquehannock have been called noble and heroic. They have also
been described as aggressive, warlike, imperialistic, and bitter
enemies of the Iroquois. They may also have warred with the Mahican
from the central Hudson Valley. When he first met the Susquehannock in
1608, Captain John Smith was especially impressed with their size, deep
voices, and the variety of their weapons.


Tionontati

In 1615, Samuel de Champlain made the long journey west from Quebec
to the Huron villages. The following year he met the Tionontati. While
the French were welcomed because of their trade goods, the Tionontati
were not nearly as enthusiastic about their religion. Protecting their
trade advantage with the French as middleman, the Huron had secretly
told the Tionontati that the French priests were sorcerers who used
magic to cause epidemics.

up
Tsalagi (Cherokee)

Male and female, they were hospitable but uneffusive. The men
appeared to be respectful but remained aloof, were secure within
themselves. They would shake a stranger's hand silently while looking
off toward the horizon, securing their own independence. They never
bowed to any other creature; they were not even willing to nod. They
spoke one at a time, deliberately and with many motions, then fell
silent, listened without looking at their companion.

They were of a copper color and proud of it, referred to Europeans
as 'ugly whites," were lighter than their Indian neighbors, the Creeks
and Choctaws and Iroquois. They were lithe, tall, erect, and without
noticeable deformities. Their spoken language was musical, punctuated
by gutteral, breathy breaks. The men enjoyed ball games, hunting, and
warfare. Indeed, warfare was their favorite activity and occupied much
of each winter.

They were a clean people, when compared to the white English,
German, and Scots-Irish settlers drifting in, infiltrating their
territory, most of whom were satisfied to bathe in autumn and not again
til spring. The Indians "went to water" often, considering water, the
sun, and fire to be three holy gifts of the Great Spirit...

The Trail of Tears - The Rise and Fall of The Cherokee Nation
John Ehle, ISBN 0-385-23954-8

A Tsalagi Agehya speaks...


Wampanoag

European captains were known to increase profits by capturing
natives to sell as slaves. Such was the case when Thomas Hunt kidnapped
several Wampanoag in 1614 and later sold them in Spain. One of his
victims - a Patuxet named Squanto (Tisquantum) - was purchased by
Spanish monks who attempted to "civilize" him. Eventually gaining his
freedom, Squanto was able to work his way to England (apparently
undeterred by his recent experience with Captain Hunt) and signed on as
an interpreter for a British expedition to Newfoundland. From there
Squanto went back to Massachusetts, only to discover that, in his
absence, epidemics had killed everyone in his village. As the last
Patuxet, he remained with the other Wampanoag as a kind of ghost.

up
Wappinger

Rodolf and his men just slaughtered every Wecquaesgeek in the
sleeping village at Pavonia without regard for age or sex. The killing
by these Dutch "Christians" was especially brutal involving babies
hacked to death in their mother's arms, torture, and mutilation. When
the attacks began, some Wecquaesgeek made the mistake of fleeing to
Fort Amsterdam. They were murdered in cold blood outside the gates and
their bodies tossed into the Hudson. De Vries, who had relocated near
the Tappan villages at Corlear's Point and apparently bore no hatreds
after his plantation on Staten Island had been destroyed by the
Raritan, saved some of the Wecquaesgeek who came to him for protection
by telling them to hide in forest. In all, Andriansen killed 31 but
brought 30 prisoners back to an uncertain fate at Fort Amsterdam.
Rodolf butchered 80 Wecquaesgeek and took no prisoners. His soldiers
reportedly brought the severed heads of their victims back to the fort
and played kickball with them. Preparing for a possible siege, Kieft
further inflamed the situation by seizing corn from the Metoac on Long
Island and killing three Canarsee warriors in the process.


Wenro

Wenro is a short form of their Huron name, Wenrohronon, meaning
"the people of the place of floating scum." The name derived from the
location of their main village near the site of the famous oil spring
at Cuba, New York.

up
Winnebago

Nicollet in 1634 described them as brave but lacking in humility
...almost to the point of arrogance. Their clothing was fringed
buckskin, which the Winnebago frequently decorated with beautiful
designs created from porcupine quills, feathers and beads - a skill for
which they are still renown. Men originally wore their hair in two long
braids, but in time this changed to the scalplock and roach headdress
favored by the Algonquin. Body tattooing was common to both sexes.


Search First Nations Site


Manifest Destiny and Western Canada:
A Critical Re-evaluation of the Geopolitical Objectives of the United
States Government's
Northern Plains Indian Wars of the 1860s and 1870s, and their
Encompassing Historical Contexts.

The Coree Are Not Extinct!

Anna Mae - New book now available

First Nations Mailing List

First Nations Site Index


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Direct Action
2005-12-27 16:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@gmail.com
In fact this was a land full of people when whites arrived. It became
empty of the natives because of us.
Who is this "us" you speak of? Can you prove that my direct ancestors
ever killed a single Native American? I certainly cannot name one who
did, I can only speculate that they might have taken violent action in
a violent time.

Am I personally responsible for the death of even *one* other human
being because of what my ancestors *may* have done? I sure don't think
so.

If I was my umpteen great grandfather, I certainly would have fought
back, if my relatives were murdered and my house burned, as occurred in
1675, at Hingham, MA, during "King Phillip's War".

What *really* happened to most of the Indians in North America?

Archaeologists have theorized that 80% of all Native Americans died off
in the 14th century, before the Europeans ever arrived en masse, and
that the population was reduced from 15 million to only about 2 million
at the time of Columbus.

Studies of Native American skulls showed that there was a change in
their teeth, from the AmerInds' Asiatic "spade" tooth, capable of
cracking nuts, to a smaller weaker tooth that showed evidence that its
owner had eaten a diet of softer foods, such as maize and cereal
grains.

The Indians' skull geometry seemed to have changed, too. They didn't
look a bit like the brave on the buffalo nickel. Their skulls weren't
as laterally compressed (dolicephalic). They looked a lot more like the
Hopis or Pueblo Indians, who seem to be closely related to the Olmecs
and Mixtecs, the probable actual builders of the great pyramids of
Mexico.

The sedentery tribes of MesoAmerica met nomads that were still moving
south. That's what forced the Mexica tribe out of their idyllic
lifestyle in their swampy homeland in the Colorado River delta. They
had called it "Aztlan" (Place of the White Heron) and were happily
eating frogs and snails when some tribe, perhaps the Mojaves or the
Paiutes ran them out of California. They wound up discovering another
swamp in the Valley of Mexico, so they stayed, and wondered what the
heck those giant pyramids were.

Back to the disease theory, the great Mississippian culture of the
mound builders came to an end as plague-carrying rats infested the
granaries and typhoid fever raged due to inadequate sanitation,
according to archaeologists.

Whose fault would that have been? The Native American Department of
Health and Sanitation?

Approximately one third of the population of Europe died during two
episodes of the Black Death during the 17th century, and it's known
that rats carried the infected fleas, but where did the fleas come
from, the Old World, or the New World?

And, why didn't the European Disease Vector Control Agency take action
to control the spread of infected rats by quarantining all ships
arriving from North America?

It is well known that Cortez could not have defeated the Aztec empire
were it not for smallpox raging within Tenochtitlan, but could one
honestly claim that Cortez had employed biological warfare against the
Aztecs?

Would you like to file a complaint with the Aztec War Crimes Tribunal?
Post by p***@gmail.com
http://www.tolatsga.org/Compacts.html
Excellent site. It details the Wampanoag treachery against the English
colonists and shows the folly of insurrection in the face of a
determined foe. The Wampanoags started their rebellion with 5000 men
and ended up with only 500, their guerrilla warfare didn't work.

But I still don't know if my umpteen great grandfather Anthony ever
shot a Wampanoag in revenge for the deaths of his father-in-law and
brother-in-law and the burning of his house in Hingham, MA.

Still, the Wampanoags would have been far better off if they had abided
by the treaty that they signed. They'd realized that they were in the
minority and had agreed to live by English law. They reneged on the
treaty and they paid the price.
Ian MacLure
2005-12-29 01:40:03 UTC
Permalink
"Direct Action" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in news:***@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

[snip]
Post by Direct Action
Back to the disease theory, the great Mississippian culture of the
mound builders came to an end as plague-carrying rats infested the
granaries and typhoid fever raged due to inadequate sanitation,
according to archaeologists.
More likely the disease that ravaged that culture came from
a smallpox infected member of the 1st Spanish expedition from
Florida overland to the Mississippi.
A second expedition some 40 years after found a howling wilderness
where their predecessors had found thriving communities.
Post by Direct Action
Whose fault would that have been? The Native American Department of
Health and Sanitation?
Take two pinches of tobacco and call the medicine man in the
morning.
Post by Direct Action
Approximately one third of the population of Europe died during two
episodes of the Black Death during the 17th century, and it's known
that rats carried the infected fleas, but where did the fleas come
from, the Old World, or the New World?
The East. The progress of the plague has been documented.
And-uh I think you mean 14th century?

[snip]

IBM

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p***@gmail.com
2005-12-29 02:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Direct Action
Post by p***@gmail.com
In fact this was a land full of people when whites arrived. It became
empty of the natives because of us.
Who is this "us" you speak of?
White, mostly, colonists. European most certainly.
Post by Direct Action
Can you prove that my direct ancestors
ever killed a single Native American?
I most certainly cannot. I is likely that none did? Considering how
many ancestors each of us has only 10 generations back - 1147,
presuming only one child per family, that's quite a few, wouldn't you
say? That none would have been directly involved in the death of a
native would be remarkable, if you family was here 10 generations ago.
Or even one member was.

One can easily do about three generations in 100 years. So that's about
only 300 years back.
Post by Direct Action
I certainly cannot name one who
did, I can only speculate that they might have taken violent action in
a violent time.
Yes, that's quite possible. No excuse, but possible. Who conquered who
again?
Post by Direct Action
Am I personally responsible for the death of even *one* other human
being because of what my ancestors *may* have done? I sure don't think
so.
Didn't say that. Now did I? Collective responsibility is a social
issue. One's society either accepts it or denies it to one degree or
another. Some will, and some won't. As time passes I notice that most
do in the beginning, and fewer as time passes.

Take Germany for instance.
Post by Direct Action
If I was my umpteen great grandfather, I certainly would have fought
back, if my relatives were murdered and my house burned, as occurred in
1675, at Hingham, MA, during "King Phillip's War".
Of course you would. How does that excuse that you were here in this
land really without the invitation of natives?
Post by Direct Action
What *really* happened to most of the Indians in North America?
There are many theories. I know of a few that work out because the
bones of the ancestors carry the marks of what happened. Mass disease,
starvation, and death by war.
Post by Direct Action
Archaeologists have theorized that 80% of all Native Americans died off
in the 14th century,
Please provide a citation. I'm interested.
Post by Direct Action
before the Europeans ever arrived en masse, and
that the population was reduced from 15 million to only about 2 million
at the time of Columbus.
Do you understand the fallacious nature of that argument? At what point
in time did they estimate the greatest number of living Native
Americans?

And what has the population density got to do with who owns the
neighborhood were you live? If it drops and the remainder can spread
out a little or not, does that give someone the right to come in and
make war on you?
Post by Direct Action
Studies of Native American skulls showed that there was a change in
their teeth, from the AmerInds' Asiatic "spade" tooth, capable of
cracking nuts, to a smaller weaker tooth that showed evidence that its
owner had eaten a diet of softer foods, such as maize and cereal
grains.
Yes, which is consistent with my comment that they were civilized and
had societies that gathered together in settled "cities." You might
refer to them as large towns, but if they met the needs of the
inhabitants so that the majority did not have to be nomadic to
survive...as yo claimed there were only nomads here......
Post by Direct Action
The Indians' skull geometry seemed to have changed, too. They didn't
look a bit like the brave on the buffalo nickel. Their skulls weren't
as laterally compressed (dolicephalic). They looked a lot more like the
Hopis or Pueblo Indians, who seem to be closely related to the Olmecs
and Mixtecs, the probable actual builders of the great pyramids of
Mexico.
The sedentery tribes of MesoAmerica met nomads that were still moving
south. That's what forced the Mexica tribe out of their idyllic
lifestyle in their swampy homeland in the Colorado River delta. They
had called it "Aztlan" (Place of the White Heron) and were happily
eating frogs and snails when some tribe, perhaps the Mojaves or the
Paiutes ran them out of California.
Possibly, and possibly not.
http://ourmexico.com/story.php?storyID=47

The Place of the White Heron seems to be off the coast of current
Mexico.
Or somewhere in Michigan. R R R R..in other words ...

... it's legend. We have much more recent records in Spanish, English,
and French that tell us a more accurate picture than going back that
far. Nevertheless this does not disprove that there was a city there,
just as I pointed out.

You aren't arguing. You are rambling and agreeing with me and
researching FINALLY after I've shown you were ignorant. And, you are
welcome. Glad to help.
Post by Direct Action
They wound up discovering another
swamp in the Valley of Mexico, so they stayed, and wondered what the
heck those giant pyramids were.
Back to the disease theory, the great Mississippian culture of the
mound builders came to an end as plague-carrying rats infested the
granaries and typhoid fever raged due to inadequate sanitation,
according to archaeologists.
Inadequate sanitation is not the cause of the plague. Inadequate rodent
control is. Obviously they (and WE at that time) did not connect the
plague to flea bearing rats. So blame placing is kind of stupid.
Post by Direct Action
Whose fault would that have been?
Whoever transported the rats, though they were likely innocent of
intent. .
Post by Direct Action
The Native American Department of
Health and Sanitation?
Had there been one, as there is today for our society, yes, we expect
to deal with what we know.
Post by Direct Action
Approximately one third of the population of Europe died during two
episodes of the Black Death during the 17th century, and it's known
that rats carried the infected fleas, but where did the fleas come
from, the Old World, or the New World?
It's know NOW, not then.
Post by Direct Action
And, why didn't the European Disease Vector Control Agency take action
to control the spread of infected rats by quarantining all ships
arriving from North America?
Could it be they didn't know the plague came in fleas on the backs of
rats?

The first notice officially was quite recent, speaking historically.
Well after European incursion into the Americas.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/plague/history.htm
"The transmission of plague was described by Simond in 1898."
And wouldn't you know, most likely out of Asia...but then.
Post by Direct Action
It is well known that Cortez could not have defeated the Aztec empire
were it not for smallpox raging within Tenochtitlan, but could one
honestly claim that Cortez had employed biological warfare against the
Aztecs?
You really ought to give credit for source when you do that.
Post by Direct Action
Would you like to file a complaint with the Aztec War Crimes Tribunal?
Your silliness and attempt at irony are duly noted. But they don't
constitute an answer to my comments. We did not come into an empty
land, but as conquerors. Face it child.
Post by Direct Action
Post by p***@gmail.com
http://www.tolatsga.org/Compacts.html
Excellent site. It details the Wampanoag treachery against the English
colonists and shows the folly of insurrection in the face of a
determined foe. The Wampanoags started their rebellion with 5000 men
and ended up with only 500, their guerrilla warfare didn't work.
And again, we made war.
Post by Direct Action
But I still don't know if my umpteen great grandfather Anthony ever
shot a Wampanoag in revenge for the deaths of his father-in-law and
brother-in-law and the burning of his house in Hingham, MA.
I've no idea either. Did you see me suggest anyone had a personal
responsibility?

You cannot win this on reducto absurdum, child. Argue to the point
made, not to a construct no offered by me. Or point out where I
suggested personal responsibility for a death or deaths of specific
individuals in the past.
Post by Direct Action
Still, the Wampanoags would have been far better off if they had abided
by the treaty that they signed.
Yes, like other aboriginals. Just ask.
Post by Direct Action
They'd realized that they were in the
minority and had agreed to live by English law. They reneged on the
treaty and they paid the price.
I see.

You now agree that war was waged and the other side lost. Good. We are
making progress.

Do you feel it was a just war?

If you do, ask yourself this question: Is it a always a just war by the
findings of the winners, and always a just war by the view of the
losers?

Might makes right, or right makes right. Take your pick.

Would you say it's fair for people that have not lived in your
community to move in, spread disease, take over your hunting and
fishing lands, confiscate the best land for farming, and make war on
you when you fought back?

And recruit your neighbors to kill you and yours?

Yah know what I would do if I were a native of the americas? I'd sue
the orginating countries of the people that came here and stole and
made war on their ancestors.

Because THAT is were the major riches went, and the great fortunes of
those nations were built.

Spain, France, England..oh them especially...Portuguese, Dutch. All the
investors in the Americas for riches and gain, if they can show that
the natives were exploited and the resources taken. And you know the
answer from history, or should.

Kane

James H. Hood
2005-12-27 05:52:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Direct Action
illegal immigrants
A few years ago your ancestors were " illegal immigrants" I believe
American INdians were in The US long before the British and erm/the
Spanish! came and killed everything they saw.
Except they didn't. Do your parents know that you're using their computer?
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