Improving behaviour

[Rich80105]

There has been some publicity overt he reasons for the retirement of
Nick Smith, apparently due to a possible media leak of details of poor
behaviour relating to treatment of parliamentary employees.

The following covers some details
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
and suggests that parties that offend should have that reflected in
voter support. All governments have experienced similar problems -
score counting is not very productive, but I believe it is important
that there be effective penalties imposed more quickly than the next
election. My suggestion is that if Parliamentary Services have to
incur legal costs and compensation costs arising from employment
disputes, then depending on how parliamentary services assess the
'guilt' of the different parties (and at times employees can be
difficult!) that Parliamentary services then impose an effective
penalty to the MP or the offending party by deferring a new
appointment until the costs assessed to be attributable to the MP or
party is saved.

While in the scheme of things the money involved is very small, I am
sure this is the sort of 'user pays' that the major parties as well as
the "Taxpayers Union" should be prepared to agree to!

[Crash]

Post by Rich80105
There has been some publicity overt he reasons for the retirement of
Nick Smith, apparently due to a possible media leak of details of poor
behaviour relating to treatment of parliamentary employees.
The following covers some details
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
and suggests that parties that offend should have that reflected in
voter support. All governments have experienced similar problems -
score counting is not very productive, but I believe it is important
that there be effective penalties imposed more quickly than the next
election. My suggestion is that if Parliamentary Services have to
incur legal costs and compensation costs arising from employment
disputes, then depending on how parliamentary services assess the
'guilt' of the different parties (and at times employees can be
difficult!) that Parliamentary services then impose an effective
penalty to the MP or the offending party by deferring a new
appointment until the costs assessed to be attributable to the MP or
party is saved.
While in the scheme of things the money involved is very small, I am
sure this is the sort of 'user pays' that the major parties as well as
the "Taxpayers Union" should be prepared to agree to!

The article you cited simply calls for voter action - don't vote for
incumbents that have a history of abusing Parliamentary staff. As you
say this is too slow, and of course the voter has no idea of the past
employment issues from any of the other candidates.

Parliamentary Services should always deal swiftly with such issues.
MPs who behave unacceptably should face the same consequences as
anyone else - with as much publicity as possible while protecting
victims and wrongly-accused MPs.

I would have thought that any MP found to abuse Parliamentary Services
staff would find their office quite a lonely place - no replacement
staff for at least the current term and probably not to many
colleagues coming to visit...


--
Crash McBash

[Rich80105]

Post by Crash

Post by Rich80105
There has been some publicity overt he reasons for the retirement of
Nick Smith, apparently due to a possible media leak of details of poor
behaviour relating to treatment of parliamentary employees.
The following covers some details
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
and suggests that parties that offend should have that reflected in
voter support. All governments have experienced similar problems -
score counting is not very productive, but I believe it is important
that there be effective penalties imposed more quickly than the next
election. My suggestion is that if Parliamentary Services have to
incur legal costs and compensation costs arising from employment
disputes, then depending on how parliamentary services assess the
'guilt' of the different parties (and at times employees can be
difficult!) that Parliamentary services then impose an effective
penalty to the MP or the offending party by deferring a new
appointment until the costs assessed to be attributable to the MP or
party is saved.
While in the scheme of things the money involved is very small, I am
sure this is the sort of 'user pays' that the major parties as well as
the "Taxpayers Union" should be prepared to agree to!

The article you cited simply calls for voter action - don't vote for
incumbents that have a history of abusing Parliamentary staff. As you
say this is too slow, and of course the voter has no idea of the past
employment issues from any of the other candidates.
Parliamentary Services should always deal swiftly with such issues.
MPs who behave unacceptably should face the same consequences as
anyone else - with as much publicity as possible while protecting
victims and wrongly-accused MPs.
I would have thought that any MP found to abuse Parliamentary Services
staff would find their office quite a lonely place - no replacement
staff for at least the current term and probably not to many
colleagues coming to visit...

I m not disagreeing with you, Crash, but it is regrettably unclear
just what "the same consequences as anyone else" actually are. If a
criminal offence has occurred that is one thing, but parliament is by
its nature a stressful place with urgent work often being necessary -
and many staff have low job security. I suspect those MPs who have
problems with staff are well known by parliamentary services, and if
they are not willing or able to improve; doing without a staff member
for a period may be the best incentive to change. Another way that
could be done is to provide a budget for support staff which includes
the cost of exit processes and costs of recruitment - MPs that have
high turnover may have to fund staff from their own or party
resources.

The suggestion re voting does not allow for the reality that some MPs
are regarded as "more difficult" than others but without getting into
the bad publicity that faces others; often we only find out the extent
of problems until after an MP has left.

[Gordon]

Post by Rich80105

Post by Crash

Post by Rich80105
There has been some publicity overt he reasons for the retirement of
Nick Smith, apparently due to a possible media leak of details of poor
behaviour relating to treatment of parliamentary employees.
The following covers some details
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
and suggests that parties that offend should have that reflected in
voter support. All governments have experienced similar problems -
score counting is not very productive, but I believe it is important
that there be effective penalties imposed more quickly than the next
election. My suggestion is that if Parliamentary Services have to
incur legal costs and compensation costs arising from employment
disputes, then depending on how parliamentary services assess the
'guilt' of the different parties (and at times employees can be
difficult!) that Parliamentary services then impose an effective
penalty to the MP or the offending party by deferring a new
appointment until the costs assessed to be attributable to the MP or
party is saved.
While in the scheme of things the money involved is very small, I am
sure this is the sort of 'user pays' that the major parties as well as
the "Taxpayers Union" should be prepared to agree to!

The article you cited simply calls for voter action - don't vote for
incumbents that have a history of abusing Parliamentary staff. As you
say this is too slow, and of course the voter has no idea of the past
employment issues from any of the other candidates.
Parliamentary Services should always deal swiftly with such issues.
MPs who behave unacceptably should face the same consequences as
anyone else - with as much publicity as possible while protecting
victims and wrongly-accused MPs.
I would have thought that any MP found to abuse Parliamentary Services
staff would find their office quite a lonely place - no replacement
staff for at least the current term and probably not to many
colleagues coming to visit...

I m not disagreeing with you, Crash, but it is regrettably unclear
just what "the same consequences as anyone else" actually are.

Rich, it has been said many, many times that no one is above the law. No one
should be treated any differently because of their position.

[Rich80105]

Post by Gordon

Post by Rich80105

Post by Crash

Post by Rich80105
There has been some publicity overt he reasons for the retirement of
Nick Smith, apparently due to a possible media leak of details of poor
behaviour relating to treatment of parliamentary employees.
The following covers some details
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
and suggests that parties that offend should have that reflected in
voter support. All governments have experienced similar problems -
score counting is not very productive, but I believe it is important
that there be effective penalties imposed more quickly than the next
election. My suggestion is that if Parliamentary Services have to
incur legal costs and compensation costs arising from employment
disputes, then depending on how parliamentary services assess the
'guilt' of the different parties (and at times employees can be
difficult!) that Parliamentary services then impose an effective
penalty to the MP or the offending party by deferring a new
appointment until the costs assessed to be attributable to the MP or
party is saved.
While in the scheme of things the money involved is very small, I am
sure this is the sort of 'user pays' that the major parties as well as
the "Taxpayers Union" should be prepared to agree to!

The article you cited simply calls for voter action - don't vote for
incumbents that have a history of abusing Parliamentary staff. As you
say this is too slow, and of course the voter has no idea of the past
employment issues from any of the other candidates.
Parliamentary Services should always deal swiftly with such issues.
MPs who behave unacceptably should face the same consequences as
anyone else - with as much publicity as possible while protecting
victims and wrongly-accused MPs.
I would have thought that any MP found to abuse Parliamentary Services
staff would find their office quite a lonely place - no replacement
staff for at least the current term and probably not to many
colleagues coming to visit...

I m not disagreeing with you, Crash, but it is regrettably unclear
just what "the same consequences as anyone else" actually are.

Rich, it has been said many, many times that no one is above the law. No one
should be treated any differently because of their position.

I agree with you Gordon, but the law can only go on evidence before
them, and politicians and some staff are very good at making sure
there is no evidence. I know a lady who worked in Parliament years
ago; the female staff all knew which MPs they should be careful not to
be alone in a lift with for example, and which were to be avoided at
certain time of the day after they had been in Bellamies. In modern
times we have had a few examples of recordings of interactions -
possibly technically illegal themselves, but which nevertheless have
proved sufficient evidence for action to be taken. Once an accusation
becomes public, it is amazing how evidence can appear to indicatet hat
problems have been known of for some time; but without proof or a
willingness for those involved to make a formal complaint, some may
appear to be 'above the law'.

If actions by a politician result in above normal payouts to staff
leaving, then it seems fair that this come out of the budget for that
MPs staffing that is where I was coming from.

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105
There has been some publicity overt he reasons for the retirement of
Nick Smith, apparently due to a possible media leak of details of poor
behaviour relating to treatment of parliamentary employees.
The following covers some details
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
and suggests that parties that offend should have that reflected in
voter support. All governments have experienced similar problems -
score counting is not very productive, but I believe it is important
that there be effective penalties imposed more quickly than the next
election. My suggestion is that if Parliamentary Services have to
incur legal costs and compensation costs arising from employment
disputes, then depending on how parliamentary services assess the
'guilt' of the different parties (and at times employees can be
difficult!) that Parliamentary services then impose an effective
penalty to the MP or the offending party by deferring a new
appointment until the costs assessed to be attributable to the MP or
party is saved.
While in the scheme of things the money involved is very small, I am
sure this is the sort of 'user pays' that the major parties as well as
the "Taxpayers Union" should be prepared to agree to!

Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

[Rich80105]

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 21:23:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
There has been some publicity overt he reasons for the retirement of
Nick Smith, apparently due to a possible media leak of details of poor
behaviour relating to treatment of parliamentary employees.
The following covers some details
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
and suggests that parties that offend should have that reflected in
voter support. All governments have experienced similar problems -
score counting is not very productive, but I believe it is important
that there be effective penalties imposed more quickly than the next
election. My suggestion is that if Parliamentary Services have to
incur legal costs and compensation costs arising from employment
disputes, then depending on how parliamentary services assess the
'guilt' of the different parties (and at times employees can be
difficult!) that Parliamentary services then impose an effective
penalty to the MP or the offending party by deferring a new
appointment until the costs assessed to be attributable to the MP or
party is saved.
While in the scheme of things the money involved is very small, I am
sure this is the sort of 'user pays' that the major parties as well as
the "Taxpayers Union" should be prepared to agree to!

Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

There you go again, trying to change the subject with an irrelevancy -
the thread is about improving the behaviour of MPs who mis-treat
staff. It is not a partisan issue - both major parties have had this
sort of problem in the past, and in any event the rules should be the
same for all MPs.

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 21:23:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
There has been some publicity overt he reasons for the retirement of
Nick Smith, apparently due to a possible media leak of details of poor
behaviour relating to treatment of parliamentary employees.
The following covers some details
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
and suggests that parties that offend should have that reflected in
voter support. All governments have experienced similar problems -
score counting is not very productive, but I believe it is important
that there be effective penalties imposed more quickly than the next
election. My suggestion is that if Parliamentary Services have to
incur legal costs and compensation costs arising from employment
disputes, then depending on how parliamentary services assess the
'guilt' of the different parties (and at times employees can be
difficult!) that Parliamentary services then impose an effective
penalty to the MP or the offending party by deferring a new
appointment until the costs assessed to be attributable to the MP or
party is saved.
While in the scheme of things the money involved is very small, I am
sure this is the sort of 'user pays' that the major parties as well as
the "Taxpayers Union" should be prepared to agree to!

Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

There you go again, trying to change the subject with an irrelevancy -
the thread is about improving the behaviour of MPs who mis-treat
staff. It is not a partisan issue - both major parties have had this
sort of problem in the past, and in any event the rules should be the
same for all MPs.

Your link was a blatant attack on Nick Smith by a far left blog. My comment is right on topic you useless bastard! Mallard made a false claim against a staff member and has not only got away with it but was supported by both you and Ardern!

[George Black]

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

[John Bowes]

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

[Rich80105]

On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

My initial post was based on improving behaviour relating to
management of staff, not on the actions or otherwise of any one
parliamentarian, but here is a well known leftie having his say . . .

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nationals-woes-go-right-to-the-top/TBHFLK6KOR27YERMD7RQC5RMHE/
" the common theme through National’s troubles is poor candidate
vetting and selection, and a lack of seriousness when allegations
emerge, whether of spying, sexual harassment, bullying, fake CVs, poor
business practice or just plain old not being up for the job. That
speaks to governance, identified as a serious problem in National’s
still secret post-election review.

Goodfellow has been party president since 2009. He has taken a close
interest in all key candidate selections and all long-term strategic
decisions, and would be responsible for them even had he not. After 12
years, whatever shape the party is in now is his legacy.

In my opinion it is time for him to take responsibility and go, and
for the party membership to elect a new board of competent people
willing to deal with the current crisis — if they can find any.

National will achieve no long-term operational success until its
members demand accountability from those they elect to run the party’s
affairs."

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

My initial post was based on improving behaviour relating to
management of staff, not on the actions or otherwise of any one
parliamentarian, but here is a well known leftie having his say . . .

Your initial posts was linked to a smear campaign from norightturn rich. Now YOU are moving the discussion to National and it's supposed bad management and avoiding the circus you worship as the one true government!

Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nationals-woes-go-right-to-the-top/TBHFLK6KOR27YERMD7RQC5RMHE/
" the common theme through National’s troubles is poor candidate
vetting and selection, and a lack of seriousness when allegations
emerge, whether of spying, sexual harassment, bullying, fake CVs, poor
business practice or just plain old not being up for the job. That
speaks to governance, identified as a serious problem in National’s
still secret post-election review.

If it's secret how the fuck do you jump to this conclussion?

Post by Rich80105
Goodfellow has been party president since 2009. He has taken a close
interest in all key candidate selections and all long-term strategic
decisions, and would be responsible for them even had he not. After 12
years, whatever shape the party is in now is his legacy.

Funny how your happy to let Ardern continue to side step issues and not punish poor preformance from her ministers!

Post by Rich80105
In my opinion it is time for him to take responsibility and go, and
for the party membership to elect a new board of competent people
willing to deal with the current crisis — if they can find any.

Yet your happy for the bully boy Mallard to continue being a roadblock to democracy!

Post by Rich80105
National will achieve no long-term operational success until its
members demand accountability from those they elect to run the party’s
affairs."

Your confusing National with your Labour party Rich! National tosses MP's who misbehave Labour hugs them to it's chest and nurtures the wankers!

Once again you can't stoop low enough to attack National while avoiding all evidence of Labours corruption and lying!

[Rich80105]

On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 18:34:12 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

My initial post was based on improving behaviour relating to
management of staff, not on the actions or otherwise of any one
parliamentarian, but here is a well known leftie having his say . . .

Your initial posts was linked to a smear campaign from norightturn rich. Now YOU are moving the discussion to National and it's supposed bad management and avoiding the circus you worship as the one true government!

Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nationals-woes-go-right-to-the-top/TBHFLK6KOR27YERMD7RQC5RMHE/
" the common theme through National’s troubles is poor candidate
vetting and selection, and a lack of seriousness when allegations
emerge, whether of spying, sexual harassment, bullying, fake CVs, poor
business practice or just plain old not being up for the job. That
speaks to governance, identified as a serious problem in National’s
still secret post-election review.

If it's secret how the fuck do you jump to this conclussion?

Post by Rich80105
Goodfellow has been party president since 2009. He has taken a close
interest in all key candidate selections and all long-term strategic
decisions, and would be responsible for them even had he not. After 12
years, whatever shape the party is in now is his legacy.

Funny how your happy to let Ardern continue to side step issues and not punish poor preformance from her ministers!

Post by Rich80105
In my opinion it is time for him to take responsibility and go, and
for the party membership to elect a new board of competent people
willing to deal with the current crisis — if they can find any.

Yet your happy for the bully boy Mallard to continue being a roadblock to democracy!

Post by Rich80105
National will achieve no long-term operational success until its
members demand accountability from those they elect to run the party’s
affairs."

Your confusing National with your Labour party Rich! National tosses MP's who misbehave Labour hugs them to it's chest and nurtures the wankers!
Once again you can't stoop low enough to attack National while avoiding all evidence of Labours corruption and lying!

You seem top confuse me with Matthew Hooten - I did not write the
article that I was quoting from.

I was looking for ways in which those MPs who do not treat staff well
could be given an incentive to improve - regardless of which party
they came from. The article by Hooten is looking at whether governance
by political parties may also be an issue.

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 18:34:12 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

My initial post was based on improving behaviour relating to
management of staff, not on the actions or otherwise of any one
parliamentarian, but here is a well known leftie having his say . . .

Your initial posts was linked to a smear campaign from norightturn rich. Now YOU are moving the discussion to National and it's supposed bad management and avoiding the circus you worship as the one true government!

Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nationals-woes-go-right-to-the-top/TBHFLK6KOR27YERMD7RQC5RMHE/
" the common theme through National’s troubles is poor candidate
vetting and selection, and a lack of seriousness when allegations
emerge, whether of spying, sexual harassment, bullying, fake CVs, poor
business practice or just plain old not being up for the job. That
speaks to governance, identified as a serious problem in National’s
still secret post-election review.

If it's secret how the fuck do you jump to this conclussion?

Post by Rich80105
Goodfellow has been party president since 2009. He has taken a close
interest in all key candidate selections and all long-term strategic
decisions, and would be responsible for them even had he not. After 12
years, whatever shape the party is in now is his legacy.

Funny how your happy to let Ardern continue to side step issues and not punish poor preformance from her ministers!

Post by Rich80105
In my opinion it is time for him to take responsibility and go, and
for the party membership to elect a new board of competent people
willing to deal with the current crisis — if they can find any.

Yet your happy for the bully boy Mallard to continue being a roadblock to democracy!

Post by Rich80105
National will achieve no long-term operational success until its
members demand accountability from those they elect to run the party’s
affairs."

Your confusing National with your Labour party Rich! National tosses MP's who misbehave Labour hugs them to it's chest and nurtures the wankers!
Once again you can't stoop low enough to attack National while avoiding all evidence of Labours corruption and lying!

You seem top confuse me with Matthew Hooten - I did not write the
article that I was quoting from.
I was looking for ways in which those MPs who do not treat staff well
could be given an incentive to improve - regardless of which party
they came from. The article by Hooten is looking at whether governance
by political parties may also be an issue.

Your original cite wasn't from Hooten but from a Labour blog. Now stop behaving like a fucking imbecile andd get back on your original topic which was an attack on Nick Smith!

Besides before you start talking about politicians improving their behaviour maybe you should lead the way and stop acting like ya typical imbecile!

[John Bowes]

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 18:34:12 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

My initial post was based on improving behaviour relating to
management of staff, not on the actions or otherwise of any one
parliamentarian, but here is a well known leftie having his say . . .

Your initial posts was linked to a smear campaign from norightturn rich. Now YOU are moving the discussion to National and it's supposed bad management and avoiding the circus you worship as the one true government!

Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nationals-woes-go-right-to-the-top/TBHFLK6KOR27YERMD7RQC5RMHE/
" the common theme through National’s troubles is poor candidate
vetting and selection, and a lack of seriousness when allegations
emerge, whether of spying, sexual harassment, bullying, fake CVs, poor
business practice or just plain old not being up for the job. That
speaks to governance, identified as a serious problem in National’s
still secret post-election review.

If it's secret how the fuck do you jump to this conclussion?

Post by Rich80105
Goodfellow has been party president since 2009. He has taken a close
interest in all key candidate selections and all long-term strategic
decisions, and would be responsible for them even had he not. After 12
years, whatever shape the party is in now is his legacy.

Funny how your happy to let Ardern continue to side step issues and not punish poor preformance from her ministers!

Post by Rich80105
In my opinion it is time for him to take responsibility and go, and
for the party membership to elect a new board of competent people
willing to deal with the current crisis — if they can find any.

Yet your happy for the bully boy Mallard to continue being a roadblock to democracy!

Post by Rich80105
National will achieve no long-term operational success until its
members demand accountability from those they elect to run the party’s
affairs."

Your confusing National with your Labour party Rich! National tosses MP's who misbehave Labour hugs them to it's chest and nurtures the wankers!
Once again you can't stoop low enough to attack National while avoiding all evidence of Labours corruption and lying!

You seem top confuse me with Matthew Hooten - I did not write the
article that I was quoting from.
I was looking for ways in which those MPs who do not treat staff well
could be given an incentive to improve - regardless of which party
they came from. The article by Hooten is looking at whether governance
by political parties may also be an issue.

Your original cite wasn't from Hooten but from a Labour blog. Now stop behaving like a fucking imbecile andd get back on your original topic which was an attack on Nick Smith!
Besides before you start talking about politicians improving their behaviour maybe you should lead the way and stop acting like ya typical imbecile!

At least Nick didn't have his hand down a juveniles pants.
Not heard a lot about who and what since.....

He was investigated because some slime ball made an illegal recording of a disagreement with one of his staff. But it seems norightturn dis the usual lefty crap of claiming he was a clone of Mallard.

[James Christophers]

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

My initial post was based on improving behaviour relating to
management of staff, not on the actions or otherwise of any one
parliamentarian, but here is a well known leftie having his say . . .
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nationals-woes-go-right-to-the-top/TBHFLK6KOR27YERMD7RQC5RMHE/
" the common theme through National’s troubles is poor candidate
vetting and selection, and a lack of seriousness when allegations
emerge, whether of spying, sexual harassment, bullying, fake CVs, poor
business practice or just plain old not being up for the job. That
speaks to governance, identified as a serious problem in National’s
still secret post-election review.
Goodfellow has been party president since 2009. He has taken a close
interest in all key candidate selections and all long-term strategic
decisions, and would be responsible for them even had he not. After 12
years, whatever shape the party is in now is his legacy.
In my opinion it is time for him to take responsibility and go, and
for the party membership to elect a new board of competent people
willing to deal with the current crisis — if they can find any.
National will achieve no long-term operational success until its
members demand accountability from those they elect to run the party’s
affairs."

Essentially, both you and Hooten express doubts regarding the quality of New Zealand's party governance and discipline, with particular reference to its failings and failures.

Both our major parties need to shape up in this respect. Both have much to answer for when it comes to discipline and comportment. But what is so easily forgotten is that, without exception, every single parliamentarian and staffer is charged and entrusted with maintaining and upholding the honour and respect for both institution and individual.

A healthy progressive parliament will always be a forum for robust argument - even confrontation. However, ever since 2008 or thereabouts this country has undoubtedly been witnessing a steady coarsening and degrading of the entire parliamentary ethos, an ethos that marks the crucial distinction between the educated and wholesomely enlightened approach to true democratic governance and the beetle-browed yah-boo rabble-mentality of the degenerate tin-pot banana republic.

[Rich80105]

On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 20:24:29 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

My initial post was based on improving behaviour relating to
management of staff, not on the actions or otherwise of any one
parliamentarian, but here is a well known leftie having his say . . .
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nationals-woes-go-right-to-the-top/TBHFLK6KOR27YERMD7RQC5RMHE/
" the common theme through National’s troubles is poor candidate
vetting and selection, and a lack of seriousness when allegations
emerge, whether of spying, sexual harassment, bullying, fake CVs, poor
business practice or just plain old not being up for the job. That
speaks to governance, identified as a serious problem in National’s
still secret post-election review.
Goodfellow has been party president since 2009. He has taken a close
interest in all key candidate selections and all long-term strategic
decisions, and would be responsible for them even had he not. After 12
years, whatever shape the party is in now is his legacy.
In my opinion it is time for him to take responsibility and go, and
for the party membership to elect a new board of competent people
willing to deal with the current crisis — if they can find any.
National will achieve no long-term operational success until its
members demand accountability from those they elect to run the party’s
affairs."

Essentially, both you and Hooten express doubts regarding the quality of New Zealand's party governance and discipline, with particular reference to its failings and failures.
Both our major parties need to shape up in this respect. Both have much to answer for when it comes to discipline and comportment. But what is so easily forgotten is that, without exception, every single parliamentarian and staffer is charged and entrusted with maintaining and upholding the honour and respect for both institution and individual.
A healthy progressive parliament will always be a forum for robust argument - even confrontation. However, ever since 2008 or thereabouts this country has undoubtedly been witnessing a steady coarsening and degrading of the entire parliamentary ethos, an ethos that marks the crucial distinction between the educated and wholesomely enlightened approach to true democratic governance and the beetle-browed yah-boo rabble-mentality of the degenerate tin-pot banana republic.

I agree James, the initial url that I posted:
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html

was making just that point. Yes it was triggered by stories relating
to one MP, but the norightturn article was pointing to the need for
all parties to step up and do better. My post was to suggest a
solution that would effectively put the cost of transgressions onto
the offending MP by depriving him of staff to balance costs with those
who treat staff properly. It is of course all parties and all MPs that
should be covered - small parties and their MPs have been guilty of
poor employment practices in the past as well.
While the employer is often techniocally Parliamentary Services, they
admiister under rules set by parliament; I was suggesting a way for
parliament to assist in fixing the problem.

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 20:24:29 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

My initial post was based on improving behaviour relating to
management of staff, not on the actions or otherwise of any one
parliamentarian, but here is a well known leftie having his say . . .
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nationals-woes-go-right-to-the-top/TBHFLK6KOR27YERMD7RQC5RMHE/
" the common theme through National’s troubles is poor candidate
vetting and selection, and a lack of seriousness when allegations
emerge, whether of spying, sexual harassment, bullying, fake CVs, poor
business practice or just plain old not being up for the job. That
speaks to governance, identified as a serious problem in National’s
still secret post-election review.
Goodfellow has been party president since 2009. He has taken a close
interest in all key candidate selections and all long-term strategic
decisions, and would be responsible for them even had he not. After 12
years, whatever shape the party is in now is his legacy.
In my opinion it is time for him to take responsibility and go, and
for the party membership to elect a new board of competent people
willing to deal with the current crisis — if they can find any.
National will achieve no long-term operational success until its
members demand accountability from those they elect to run the party’s
affairs."

Essentially, both you and Hooten express doubts regarding the quality of New Zealand's party governance and discipline, with particular reference to its failings and failures.
Both our major parties need to shape up in this respect. Both have much to answer for when it comes to discipline and comportment. But what is so easily forgotten is that, without exception, every single parliamentarian and staffer is charged and entrusted with maintaining and upholding the honour and respect for both institution and individual.
A healthy progressive parliament will always be a forum for robust argument - even confrontation. However, ever since 2008 or thereabouts this country has undoubtedly been witnessing a steady coarsening and degrading of the entire parliamentary ethos, an ethos that marks the crucial distinction between the educated and wholesomely enlightened approach to true democratic governance and the beetle-browed yah-boo rabble-mentality of the degenerate tin-pot banana republic.

http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
was making just that point. Yes it was triggered by stories relating
to one MP, but the norightturn article was pointing to the need for
all parties to step up and do better. My post was to suggest a
solution that would effectively put the cost of transgressions onto
the offending MP by depriving him of staff to balance costs with those
who treat staff properly. It is of course all parties and all MPs that
should be covered - small parties and their MPs have been guilty of
poor employment practices in the past as well.
While the employer is often techniocally Parliamentary Services, they
admiister under rules set by parliament; I was suggesting a way for
parliament to assist in fixing the problem.

The best fix Rich would be to toss the offending MP/'s!
Funny how you NEVER spoke out against Mallard or the other non preforming Labour MPs who are all past their use by date!

[Rich80105]

On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 15:41:25 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 20:24:29 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

My initial post was based on improving behaviour relating to
management of staff, not on the actions or otherwise of any one
parliamentarian, but here is a well known leftie having his say . . .
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nationals-woes-go-right-to-the-top/TBHFLK6KOR27YERMD7RQC5RMHE/
" the common theme through National’s troubles is poor candidate
vetting and selection, and a lack of seriousness when allegations
emerge, whether of spying, sexual harassment, bullying, fake CVs, poor
business practice or just plain old not being up for the job. That
speaks to governance, identified as a serious problem in National’s
still secret post-election review.
Goodfellow has been party president since 2009. He has taken a close
interest in all key candidate selections and all long-term strategic
decisions, and would be responsible for them even had he not. After 12
years, whatever shape the party is in now is his legacy.
In my opinion it is time for him to take responsibility and go, and
for the party membership to elect a new board of competent people
willing to deal with the current crisis — if they can find any.
National will achieve no long-term operational success until its
members demand accountability from those they elect to run the party’s
affairs."

Essentially, both you and Hooten express doubts regarding the quality of New Zealand's party governance and discipline, with particular reference to its failings and failures.
Both our major parties need to shape up in this respect. Both have much to answer for when it comes to discipline and comportment. But what is so easily forgotten is that, without exception, every single parliamentarian and staffer is charged and entrusted with maintaining and upholding the honour and respect for both institution and individual.
A healthy progressive parliament will always be a forum for robust argument - even confrontation. However, ever since 2008 or thereabouts this country has undoubtedly been witnessing a steady coarsening and degrading of the entire parliamentary ethos, an ethos that marks the crucial distinction between the educated and wholesomely enlightened approach to true democratic governance and the beetle-browed yah-boo rabble-mentality of the degenerate tin-pot banana republic.

http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
was making just that point. Yes it was triggered by stories relating
to one MP, but the norightturn article was pointing to the need for
all parties to step up and do better. My post was to suggest a
solution that would effectively put the cost of transgressions onto
the offending MP by depriving him of staff to balance costs with those
who treat staff properly. It is of course all parties and all MPs that
should be covered - small parties and their MPs have been guilty of
poor employment practices in the past as well.
While the employer is often techniocally Parliamentary Services, they
admiister under rules set by parliament; I was suggesting a way for
parliament to assist in fixing the problem.

The best fix Rich would be to toss the offending MP/'s!
Funny how you NEVER spoke out against Mallard or the other non preforming Labour MPs who are all past their use by date!

I was suggesting a rule that would apply to all politicians,
regardless of party. Your insistance on trying to raise unspecified
issues about particular MPs from a party you appear not to like is
irrelevant and unhelpful.

[James Christophers]

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 15:41:25 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 20:24:29 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

My initial post was based on improving behaviour relating to
management of staff, not on the actions or otherwise of any one
parliamentarian, but here is a well known leftie having his say . . .
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nationals-woes-go-right-to-the-top/TBHFLK6KOR27YERMD7RQC5RMHE/
" the common theme through National’s troubles is poor candidate
vetting and selection, and a lack of seriousness when allegations
emerge, whether of spying, sexual harassment, bullying, fake CVs, poor
business practice or just plain old not being up for the job. That
speaks to governance, identified as a serious problem in National’s
still secret post-election review.
Goodfellow has been party president since 2009. He has taken a close
interest in all key candidate selections and all long-term strategic
decisions, and would be responsible for them even had he not. After 12
years, whatever shape the party is in now is his legacy.
In my opinion it is time for him to take responsibility and go, and
for the party membership to elect a new board of competent people
willing to deal with the current crisis — if they can find any.
National will achieve no long-term operational success until its
members demand accountability from those they elect to run the party’s
affairs."

Essentially, both you and Hooten express doubts regarding the quality of New Zealand's party governance and discipline, with particular reference to its failings and failures.
Both our major parties need to shape up in this respect. Both have much to answer for when it comes to discipline and comportment. But what is so easily forgotten is that, without exception, every single parliamentarian and staffer is charged and entrusted with maintaining and upholding the honour and respect for both institution and individual.
A healthy progressive parliament will always be a forum for robust argument - even confrontation. However, ever since 2008 or thereabouts this country has undoubtedly been witnessing a steady coarsening and degrading of the entire parliamentary ethos, an ethos that marks the crucial distinction between the educated and wholesomely enlightened approach to true democratic governance and the beetle-browed yah-boo rabble-mentality of the degenerate tin-pot banana republic.

http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
was making just that point. Yes it was triggered by stories relating
to one MP, but the norightturn article was pointing to the need for
all parties to step up and do better. My post was to suggest a
solution that would effectively put the cost of transgressions onto
the offending MP by depriving him of staff to balance costs with those
who treat staff properly. It is of course all parties and all MPs that
should be covered - small parties and their MPs have been guilty of
poor employment practices in the past as well.
While the employer is often techniocally Parliamentary Services, they
admiister under rules set by parliament; I was suggesting a way for
parliament to assist in fixing the problem.

The best fix Rich would be to toss the offending MP/'s!
Funny how you NEVER spoke out against Mallard or the other non preforming Labour MPs who are all past their use by date!

Rich leaves you and others to do that for him. Your problem is you have yet to twig you're no good at it.

Post by Rich80105
I was suggesting a rule that would apply to all politicians,
regardless of party. Your insistance on trying to raise unspecified
issues about particular MPs from a party you appear not to like is
irrelevant and unhelpful.

Bowes thinks mostly in terms of spite and retribution, long-held disaffections characterised by his own self-defeating nihilism.

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 15:41:25 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 20:24:29 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by George Black

Post by John Bowes
Funny how norightturn said nothing when Mallard opened his big mouth or on any of his many 'slips of the tongue'. Don't remember you getting upset when he cost the taxpayer $300,000+ because of his own stupidity!

Ah but then you have to remember the left mantra.
Right is wrong and left is gone
Like the Covid debacle and how nothing is happening at a snails pace but
we have promises

The shit is only being spread by fake news purveyors like norightturn and Rich guess it's a case of liars sticking together:)

My initial post was based on improving behaviour relating to
management of staff, not on the actions or otherwise of any one
parliamentarian, but here is a well known leftie having his say . . .
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nationals-woes-go-right-to-the-top/TBHFLK6KOR27YERMD7RQC5RMHE/
" the common theme through National’s troubles is poor candidate
vetting and selection, and a lack of seriousness when allegations
emerge, whether of spying, sexual harassment, bullying, fake CVs, poor
business practice or just plain old not being up for the job. That
speaks to governance, identified as a serious problem in National’s
still secret post-election review.
Goodfellow has been party president since 2009. He has taken a close
interest in all key candidate selections and all long-term strategic
decisions, and would be responsible for them even had he not. After 12
years, whatever shape the party is in now is his legacy.
In my opinion it is time for him to take responsibility and go, and
for the party membership to elect a new board of competent people
willing to deal with the current crisis — if they can find any.
National will achieve no long-term operational success until its
members demand accountability from those they elect to run the party’s
affairs."

Essentially, both you and Hooten express doubts regarding the quality of New Zealand's party governance and discipline, with particular reference to its failings and failures.
Both our major parties need to shape up in this respect. Both have much to answer for when it comes to discipline and comportment. But what is so easily forgotten is that, without exception, every single parliamentarian and staffer is charged and entrusted with maintaining and upholding the honour and respect for both institution and individual.
A healthy progressive parliament will always be a forum for robust argument - even confrontation. However, ever since 2008 or thereabouts this country has undoubtedly been witnessing a steady coarsening and degrading of the entire parliamentary ethos, an ethos that marks the crucial distinction between the educated and wholesomely enlightened approach to true democratic governance and the beetle-browed yah-boo rabble-mentality of the degenerate tin-pot banana republic.

http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/06/we-should-not-tolerate-parties-which.html
was making just that point. Yes it was triggered by stories relating
to one MP, but the norightturn article was pointing to the need for
all parties to step up and do better. My post was to suggest a
solution that would effectively put the cost of transgressions onto
the offending MP by depriving him of staff to balance costs with those
who treat staff properly. It is of course all parties and all MPs that
should be covered - small parties and their MPs have been guilty of
poor employment practices in the past as well.
While the employer is often techniocally Parliamentary Services, they
admiister under rules set by parliament; I was suggesting a way for
parliament to assist in fixing the problem.

The best fix Rich would be to toss the offending MP/'s!
Funny how you NEVER spoke out against Mallard or the other non preforming Labour MPs who are all past their use by date!

Rich leaves you and others to do that for him. Your problem is you have yet to twig you're no good at it.

Whereas you're just as full of bullshit as Rich Keith. You just take longer to spew it than your little mate :)

Post by Rich80105
I was suggesting a rule that would apply to all politicians,
regardless of party. Your insistance on trying to raise unspecified
issues about particular MPs from a party you appear not to like is
irrelevant and unhelpful.

Bowes thinks mostly in terms of spite and retribution, long-held disaffections characterised by his own self-defeating nihilism.

BULLSHIT! I think in terms of taking responsibility for actions and behaviour. something you and Rich should take some time to consider Warren!