The Best Cheap Cell Phone Plans You've Never Heard Of

[Roy]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2375644,00.asp

[David Kaye]

Post by Roy
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2375644,00.asp

I live in such an old-school world. Still using a dumb phone and now a
tablet if I *really* want to go on the web or use apps. My Verizon is $35
for 1000 minutes of talk and 20 cents a message for text (or I can spend $5
for 100 texts I think). Anyhow, I get cell coverage in every nook and
cranny of California for no roaming charges. In fact even into the Nevada
desert I have had some excellent coverage.

[poldy]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Roy
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2375644,00.asp

I live in such an old-school world. Still using a dumb phone and now a
tablet if I *really* want to go on the web or use apps. My Verizon is $35
for 1000 minutes of talk and 20 cents a message for text (or I can spend $5
for 100 texts I think). Anyhow, I get cell coverage in every nook and
cranny of California for no roaming charges. In fact even into the Nevada
desert I have had some excellent coverage.

I think you can get Straight Talk plans for around that price. Limited
minutes, I think 1-3 GB of data.

The major outlay would be paying for the whole smart phone though.

[sms]

On 3/4/2016 12:16 PM, poldy wrote:

<snip>

Post by poldy
I think you can get Straight Talk plans for around that price. Limited
minutes, I think 1-3 GB of data.
The major outlay would be paying for the whole smart phone though.

You can sign up with Page Plus, which is a Verizon MVNO, and have a
plan with 1,500 domestic voice minutes, unlimited text, with 1 GB of
data. You can use a smart phone (necessary for the data) or a dumb phone
if you just want to throw away the data.

They sell a bunch of inexpensive smart phones or you can bring any
Verizon smart phone (other than new 3G-only prepaid phones). Prepaid
Verizon 4G LTE phones can be used on Page Plus as long as you remove the
Verizon SIM card prior to ever turning the phone on.

It's hard to imagine any reason to stick with Verizon itself for a dumb
phone account since it's much more expensive. For a smart phone there
could be reasons, like international roaming on a CDMA/GSM smart phone.

It's highly unlikely that you'd ever roam since Verizon has bought out
most of the smaller carriers, though there are a couple of remote areas
where you'd roam for 20¢/minute (no roaming charges for texts). Alaska
is one exception since Verizon has only LTE service in Alaska, no CDMA,
and all CDMA access is roaming.

[David Kaye]

Post by sms
It's hard to imagine any reason to stick with Verizon itself for a dumb
phone account since it's much more expensive.

I pay $35 a month and get oodles of talk time that I never run out of. VZW
has never mis-billed me, and I can trade in my dumb phone for a new dumb
phone very couple years. They have automatic address book backup that I
don't even have to think about. The only time I get dinged is on text
because I don't do enough texting to warrant an extra $5 a month for the
service, so I get charged 20 cents a text. Not a big deal.

Post by sms
It's highly unlikely that you'd ever roam since Verizon has bought out
most of the smaller carriers,

Northern California, Southern Oregon, Northern Nevada -- lots of small indie
carriers and no VZW.

[poldy]

Post by David Kaye

Post by sms
It's hard to imagine any reason to stick with Verizon itself for a dumb
phone account since it's much more expensive.

I pay $35 a month and get oodles of talk time that I never run out of. VZW
has never mis-billed me, and I can trade in my dumb phone for a new dumb
phone very couple years. They have automatic address book backup that I
don't even have to think about. The only time I get dinged is on text
because I don't do enough texting to warrant an extra $5 a month for the
service, so I get charged 20 cents a text. Not a big deal.

Post by sms
It's highly unlikely that you'd ever roam since Verizon has bought out
most of the smaller carriers,

Northern California, Southern Oregon, Northern Nevada -- lots of small indie
carriers and no VZW.

Well beyond the cost, smart phones offer a lot of utility. Simple
things like, having a decent camera always at hand. Not just for Kodak
moments but like you drop off a package at UPS and you don't want to
write down the stupid tracking number so you take a snap of it and you
can track it later.

If you get any utility out of the Internet, you will get use out of a
smart phone which gives you access to the Internet outside the home.

I have an iPad Mini with cellular radio. I often take it out of the
home but not always.

Smart phones are like the digital swiss army knife.

[David Kaye]

Well beyond the cost, smart phones offer a lot of utility. Simple things
like, having a decent camera always at hand.

My dumbphone has a 7.1 Mpx camera with adjustments for lighting, movement,
delay, etc. It also does video, except that I don't know how to make that
work. No worries; I have a $50 12 Mpx camera that works really well.

moments but like you drop off a package at UPS and you don't want to write
down the stupid tracking number so you take a snap of it and you can track
it later.

The stuff I do ship (my BarTV.us DVD videos) are via a fulfillment house, so
I don't need to drop off anything anywhere. I don't snap photos of menus,
either; I just take their small to-go copies.

If you get any utility out of the Internet, you will get use out of a
smart phone which gives you access to the Internet outside the home.

I've gotten a few things for my Android tablet, such as a couple wi-fi
analyzers, an FM radio app (turns the tablet into an FM radio), NextBus,
Google Maps, etc. No need to put them on a phone because I don't use them
enough to bother. And remember that as a freelance techie I am around the
internet all the time. I don't need to have it in my shirt pocket
everywhere I go.

[n***@sbcglobal.net]

Post by David Kaye

Well beyond the cost, smart phones offer a lot of utility. Simple things
like, having a decent camera always at hand.

My dumbphone has a 7.1 Mpx camera with adjustments for lighting, movement,
delay, etc. It also does video, except that I don't know how to make that
work. No worries; I have a $50 12 Mpx camera that works really well.

moments but like you drop off a package at UPS and you don't want to write
down the stupid tracking number so you take a snap of it and you can track
it later.

The stuff I do ship (my BarTV.us DVD videos) are via a fulfillment house, so
I don't need to drop off anything anywhere. I don't snap photos of menus,
either; I just take their small to-go copies.

If you get any utility out of the Internet, you will get use out of a
smart phone which gives you access to the Internet outside the home.

I've gotten a few things for my Android tablet, such as a couple wi-fi
analyzers, an FM radio app (turns the tablet into an FM radio), NextBus,
Google Maps, etc. No need to put them on a phone because I don't use them
enough to bother. And remember that as a freelance techie I am around the
internet all the time. I don't need to have it in my shirt pocket
everywhere I go.

I'm still running on the $30 a month T-Mobile 5 GB data plan. That's only 100 minutes of talk, but unlimited texting. I still have a landline (VOIP) at home and don't use the phone for talk that much but for app testing, etc. This town has 4G coverage except where I live where I barely get a signal. Have told friends who call on my smartphone to call the landline instead. I don't travel much so works for me.

[sms]

On 3/6/2016 12:42 PM, ***@sbcglobal.net wrote:

<snip>

Post by n***@sbcglobal.net
I'm still running on the $30 a month T-Mobile 5 GB data plan. That's only 100 minutes of talk, but unlimited texting. I still have a landline (VOIP) at home and don't use the phone for talk that much but for app testing, etc. This town has 4G coverage except where I live where I barely get a signal. Have told friends who call on my smartphone to call the landline instead. I don't travel much so works for me.

With 5GB of data you could run VOIP on the phone via Google Voice.

I had T-Mobile for a few months last year because I wanted the
20¢/minute international roaming, included international texts, and
included (slow) international data. It worked pretty well in England and
Ireland. But T-Mobile was just unusable in California outside metro
areas, like on 152 and I-5 and Yosemite. We had to drop them and go back
to AT&T.

The thing about Verizon is that it actually costs less, for more, to
have a Verizon smart phone on a Verizon MVNO than it cost to have a dumb
phone on Verizon itself.

I felt like David a few years ago, I would not give up Verizon coverage,
so I put up with a dumb phone with no data. But Page Plus gave me the
same Verizon coverage, along with more texts than I could use, and
sufficient data, for less than what I was paying for a dumb phone. The
drawback of Page Plus was very occasional roaming that cost extra, but
it was so rare that it didn't matter. I might have spent $2 on roaming
during the few years I was on Page Plus.

[David Kaye]

Post by sms
I felt like David a few years ago, I would not give up Verizon coverage,
so I put up with a dumb phone with no data.

You've ignored every reason I put forth for keeping my phone. I know you're
a troll, but really now, can't you ditch the troll effort for awhile just to
read what I wrote?

[poldy]

Post by David Kaye

Well beyond the cost, smart phones offer a lot of utility. Simple things
like, having a decent camera always at hand.

My dumbphone has a 7.1 Mpx camera with adjustments for lighting, movement,
delay, etc. It also does video, except that I don't know how to make that
work. No worries; I have a $50 12 Mpx camera that works really well.

moments but like you drop off a package at UPS and you don't want to write
down the stupid tracking number so you take a snap of it and you can track
it later.

The stuff I do ship (my BarTV.us DVD videos) are via a fulfillment house, so
I don't need to drop off anything anywhere. I don't snap photos of menus,
either; I just take their small to-go copies.

If you get any utility out of the Internet, you will get use out of a
smart phone which gives you access to the Internet outside the home.

I've gotten a few things for my Android tablet, such as a couple wi-fi
analyzers, an FM radio app (turns the tablet into an FM radio), NextBus,
Google Maps, etc. No need to put them on a phone because I don't use them
enough to bother. And remember that as a freelance techie I am around the
internet all the time. I don't need to have it in my shirt pocket
everywhere I go.

What about when you're not working?

[David Kaye]

Post by poldy

Post by David Kaye

Well beyond the cost, smart phones offer a lot of utility. Simple things
like, having a decent camera always at hand.

My dumbphone has a 7.1 Mpx camera with adjustments for lighting, movement,
delay, etc. It also does video, except that I don't know how to make that
work. No worries; I have a $50 12 Mpx camera that works really well.

moments but like you drop off a package at UPS and you don't want to write
down the stupid tracking number so you take a snap of it and you can track
it later.

The stuff I do ship (my BarTV.us DVD videos) are via a fulfillment house, so
I don't need to drop off anything anywhere. I don't snap photos of menus,
either; I just take their small to-go copies.

If you get any utility out of the Internet, you will get use out of a
smart phone which gives you access to the Internet outside the home.

I've gotten a few things for my Android tablet, such as a couple wi-fi
analyzers, an FM radio app (turns the tablet into an FM radio), NextBus,
Google Maps, etc. No need to put them on a phone because I don't use them
enough to bother. And remember that as a freelance techie I am around the
internet all the time. I don't need to have it in my shirt pocket
everywhere I go.

What about when you're not working?

[David Kaye]

Post by poldy
What about when you're not working?

What do you mean? I have a very full social life that does not involve the
internet at all. I put on a games group, SF Games (
http://www.sfgames.org ) on Friday nights and Sunday afternoons. I put on 2
live music shows on Friday nights and Saturday nights at the Atlas Cafe (
http://www.atlascafe.net/blog ) and I sing karaoke 1 or 2 nights a week,
usually on Tuesdays and Wednesdays at the Gold Dust Lounge on Jefferson at
the Wharf.

Monday nights is my bar-going night at the Powerhouse where the mood is
quiet unless there's an event going on and I chat live and in person with
the bartenders and patrons.

So, that's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, two simultaneous Friday events, and
Saturday.

It's not unusual for me to go on the internet at 10am for work-related stuff
and not touch it again until 11pm, unless I need it for work.

Who needs virtual people when I can hang out with real people?

[poldy]

Post by David Kaye

Post by poldy
What about when you're not working?

What do you mean? I have a very full social life that does not involve the
internet at all. I put on a games group, SF Games (
http://www.sfgames.org ) on Friday nights and Sunday afternoons. I put on 2
live music shows on Friday nights and Saturday nights at the Atlas Cafe (
http://www.atlascafe.net/blog ) and I sing karaoke 1 or 2 nights a week,
usually on Tuesdays and Wednesdays at the Gold Dust Lounge on Jefferson at
the Wharf.
Monday nights is my bar-going night at the Powerhouse where the mood is
quiet unless there's an event going on and I chat live and in person with
the bartenders and patrons.
So, that's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, two simultaneous Friday events, and
Saturday.
It's not unusual for me to go on the internet at 10am for work-related stuff
and not touch it again until 11pm, unless I need it for work.
Who needs virtual people when I can hang out with real people?

A lot of those people are probably looking at their phones several times
during those events.

[David Kaye]

Post by poldy
A lot of those people are probably looking at their phones several times
during those events.

That's not my concern unless they're doing something that annoys me. When
I'm playing board games sometimes newbies will look at their phones, but
once they get accustomed to real life they tend not to look very often, if
at all.

Seems odd that people have to learn about real life these days.

[(null)]

Post by David Kaye
I've gotten a few things for my Android tablet, such as a couple wi-fi
analyzers, an FM radio app (turns the tablet into an FM radio), NextBus,
Google Maps, etc. No need to put them on a phone because I don't use them
enough to bother.

If you get utility out of a tablet then you would get utility out of a
smartphone because a smartphone is essentially a tablet that can make
phone calls albeit with a little bit smaller screen (and in many cases
with what seems like a paradox, more pixels).

[David Kaye]

Post by (null)
If you get utility out of a tablet then you would get utility out of a
smartphone because a smartphone is essentially a tablet that can make
phone calls albeit with a little bit smaller screen (and in many cases
with what seems like a paradox, more pixels).

I'm happy with 7 inches I can read, and I have little use to be on the phone
talking or texting.

[sms]

Post by (null)

Post by David Kaye
I've gotten a few things for my Android tablet, such as a couple wi-fi
analyzers, an FM radio app (turns the tablet into an FM radio), NextBus,
Google Maps, etc. No need to put them on a phone because I don't use them
enough to bother.

If you get utility out of a tablet then you would get utility out of a
smartphone because a smartphone is essentially a tablet that can make
phone calls albeit with a little bit smaller screen (and in many cases
with what seems like a paradox, more pixels).

One warning is that the super-cheap, no-name Android tablets don't have
a GPS receiver in them, but I think that all of the name brand ones do
(we have Asus, Nexus, LG, and Lenovo tablets, and they all have GPS
receivers. Also, the Wi-Fi only iPads don't have a GPS chip in them
(which is really annoying considering the cost). That limits their
utility as a lot of very useful apps need the GPS receiver.

[Peter Lawrence]

Also, the Wi-Fi only iPads don't have a GPS chip in them (which is really
annoying considering the cost). That limits their utility as a lot of very
useful apps need the GPS receiver.

Which is why I don't understand their popularity. As someone who owns an
iPhone, I think my WiFi-only Nexus 7 Android tablet is a lot more functional
and useful than the WiFi only iPads, and it cost a lot less too.


- Peter

[poldy]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Also, the Wi-Fi only iPads don't have a GPS chip in them (which is really
annoying considering the cost). That limits their utility as a lot of very
useful apps need the GPS receiver.

Which is why I don't understand their popularity. As someone who owns
an iPhone, I think my WiFi-only Nexus 7 Android tablet is a lot more
functional and useful than the WiFi only iPads, and it cost a lot less too.
- Peter

Well besides the GPS thing, there are a lot more apps. designed for
iPads, whereas Android apps. seem to just generically upsize the UI from
a phone app. to fill the tablet screen.

[n***@sbcglobal.net]

Post by poldy
Well besides the GPS thing, there are a lot more apps. designed for
iPads, whereas Android apps. seem to just generically upsize the UI from
a phone app. to fill the tablet screen.

That's because Android lacks a scalable ViewPort like Windows. If it had that then you could scale text and graphics as they are drawn. It's been a big complaint of developers for years. My principal app comes with optional bitmap draws so that screens over a certain size are drawn to a bitmap twice as large for a crisper image. The 10" tablets get a different layout altogether.

iOS is a toy OS. That's not meant to be an insult but the way Jobs wanted it. The simplicity lends itself to fewer bugs and easier programming. The Android SDK is very complex with lots of bells and whistles and existing bugs.

Google (or Goofle) also doesn't respect the fact that Android became big on the backs of lots of bedroom developers and are favoring enterprise. Thus they are making it hard on the little people who got them there and innovated unique ideas that would have been squashed at an "enterprise." Their support people are sometimes very inept and seem to read only part of the problem reported.

[Keith Keller]

Post by poldy
Well beyond the cost, smart phones offer a lot of utility. Simple
things like, having a decent camera always at hand. Not just for Kodak
moments but like you drop off a package at UPS and you don't want to
write down the stupid tracking number so you take a snap of it and you
can track it later.

You can do this with a PDA that has no data plan (though then you're
carrying your PDA and your dumb phone, which I did do for a while).

I think the more compelling case for a smart phone is for checking
traffic, or checking NextBus. Sure, you can do that by calling, or by
text message, but the UI for a browser or an app is much more pleasant,
and more flexible.

--keith

[sms]

Post by poldy

Post by David Kaye

Post by sms
It's hard to imagine any reason to stick with Verizon itself for a dumb
phone account since it's much more expensive.

I pay $35 a month and get oodles of talk time that I never run out of. VZW
has never mis-billed me, and I can trade in my dumb phone for a new dumb
phone very couple years. They have automatic address book backup that I
don't even have to think about. The only time I get dinged is on text
because I don't do enough texting to warrant an extra $5 a month for the
service, so I get charged 20 cents a text. Not a big deal.

Post by sms
It's highly unlikely that you'd ever roam since Verizon has bought out
most of the smaller carriers,

Northern California, Southern Oregon, Northern Nevada -- lots of small indie
carriers and no VZW.

Well beyond the cost, smart phones offer a lot of utility. Simple
things like, having a decent camera always at hand. Not just for Kodak
moments but like you drop off a package at UPS and you don't want to
write down the stupid tracking number so you take a snap of it and you
can track it later.
If you get any utility out of the Internet, you will get use out of a
smart phone which gives you access to the Internet outside the home.
I have an iPad Mini with cellular radio. I often take it out of the
home but not always.
Smart phones are like the digital swiss army knife.

That's how I feel. I had a dumb phone, on Verizon, like David when I
switched to Page Plus. I roamed rarely, and the huge savings meant that
paying for an occasional roaming minute on Golden State Cellular or U.S.
Cellular was lost in the noise. Then Verizon began buying up the smaller
CDMA carriers that I had been roaming on the most, like Golden State
Cellular.

The big attraction to me of Page Plus over Verizon was that I could have
a smart phone without a data plan, something that Verizon does not
permit. I was only using a little cellular data, but when I needed it it
was very nice to have. Most of the time I was on Wi-Fi.

There's a bunch of people I know that were on Verizon with dumb phones
who switched to Page Plus with smart phones because they did not want to
give up the Verizon network, but they did not want to sign up for an
expensive data plan.

I just listened to a piece on KQED today about people who willingly pay
more for the same product, and its for emotional reasons that facts and
logic are not able to counter.

Alas, Page Plus was bought out by Carlos Slim a couple of years ago.
There have been some improvements as a result, but also some negatives,
such as customer service and no more +1 international calling at low rates.

I switched my family over to AT&T's network (Consumer Cellular) because
a) I wanted a family plan with shared minutes, texts, and data, and b) I
wanted phones that we could take to Europe and Asia and just stick in a
prepaid SIM card. But I kept one Page Plus line active for $2.50 per
month minimum just to have a phone that works where AT&T lacks a network.

[David Kaye]

Post by sms
I just listened to a piece on KQED today about people who willingly pay
more for the same product, and its for emotional reasons that facts and
logic are not able to counter.

Or...I happen to like VZW's customer service; their bills have never been
wrong; the service has been excellent; I travel to areas that still have
indie cell companies and the service is seamless without roaming charges; my
dumb phone slips easily into my shirt pocket and has all the acoutrements I
need such as alarm clock, calendar, texting, camera, etc. Also, I find the
fidelity better than I've heard on smartphones, though not as good as my
previous dumb phone, which still had constant bit rate.

Also, I don't have to worry about dropping the phone, cracking the screen,
tying up money in it, forgetting it somewhere, etc.

PLUS, my current dumb phone goes a good 5 days without recharging. It seems
that most smartphones have to be recharged every few hours. This problem is
so bad that there are now companies setting up charge stations and signing
up bars and restaurants to charge people for recharging their phones. When
my phone needs recharging, I plug it into my computer or my car's cigarette
lighter and in about 15 minutes it's fully charged.

So, my reasons are not emotional at all.

In fact I find YOUR reasons to be emotional because you simply can't
understand that there are plenty of reasons besides price that enter into a
decision.

[(null)]

Post by David Kaye
PLUS, my current dumb phone goes a good 5 days without recharging. It seems
that most smartphones have to be recharged every few hours.

Actually, my smartphone can go much longer than 5 days without recharging...

...if I use it like a dumbphone (i.e. turn off cell data, wifi, Bluetooth,
voice recognition, biometrics, GPS, mobile payments and syncing; don't watch
movies, don't listen to music, don't take notes, don't use spreadsheets,
don't connect a keyboard, don't connect a monitor, don't use wireless screen
casting, etc).

[sms]

Post by (null)

Post by David Kaye
PLUS, my current dumb phone goes a good 5 days without recharging. It seems
that most smartphones have to be recharged every few hours.

Actually, my smartphone can go much longer than 5 days without recharging...
...if I use it like a dumbphone (i.e. turn off cell data, wifi, Bluetooth,
voice recognition, biometrics, GPS, mobile payments and syncing; don't watch
movies, don't listen to music, don't take notes, don't use spreadsheets,
don't connect a keyboard, don't connect a monitor, don't use wireless screen
casting, etc).

I've never seen a smart phone that needed charging every few hours, but
it is true that if you leave location, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth turned on
you would have to charge it at least every other day while a dumb phone
can go many days between charges. If you turn off all those extra radios
you could probably go four days.

The reality is that you charge it in the car, you charge it at home, you
charge it on an airplane, etc., and it's not a problem. Or you buy one
of those external charging packs.

Personally, I would not buy a smart phone that lacked a removable
battery which a) lets you carry a spare battery if you're going to be
away from mains or car power for a long time, and b) lets you easily
replace a battery once it no longer holds a charge.

I have an unlocked LG G3, which was $200 from Fry's. My son has an
unlocked G4/ Both have removable batteries. For smart phones, you're
limited to LG if you want a removable battery.

[poldy]

Post by sms

Post by (null)

Post by David Kaye
PLUS, my current dumb phone goes a good 5 days without recharging.
It seems
that most smartphones have to be recharged every few hours.

Actually, my smartphone can go much longer than 5 days without recharging...
...if I use it like a dumbphone (i.e. turn off cell data, wifi, Bluetooth,
voice recognition, biometrics, GPS, mobile payments and syncing; don't watch
movies, don't listen to music, don't take notes, don't use spreadsheets,
don't connect a keyboard, don't connect a monitor, don't use wireless screen
casting, etc).

I've never seen a smart phone that needed charging every few hours, but
it is true that if you leave location, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth turned on
you would have to charge it at least every other day while a dumb phone
can go many days between charges. If you turn off all those extra radios
you could probably go four days.
The reality is that you charge it in the car, you charge it at home, you
charge it on an airplane, etc., and it's not a problem. Or you buy one
of those external charging packs.
Personally, I would not buy a smart phone that lacked a removable
battery which a) lets you carry a spare battery if you're going to be
away from mains or car power for a long time, and b) lets you easily
replace a battery once it no longer holds a charge.
I have an unlocked LG G3, which was $200 from Fry's. My son has an
unlocked G4/ Both have removable batteries. For smart phones, you're
limited to LG if you want a removable battery.

Gradually, users have been trained to expect to charge every day.
Failing that, there are those cheap battery packs to get you through
until you're at an electric outlet.

Because a lot of people see it more as a pocket computer than a phone.

[sms]

Post by poldy

Post by sms

Post by (null)

Post by David Kaye
PLUS, my current dumb phone goes a good 5 days without recharging.
It seems
that most smartphones have to be recharged every few hours.

Actually, my smartphone can go much longer than 5 days without recharging...
...if I use it like a dumbphone (i.e. turn off cell data, wifi, Bluetooth,
voice recognition, biometrics, GPS, mobile payments and syncing; don't watch
movies, don't listen to music, don't take notes, don't use spreadsheets,
don't connect a keyboard, don't connect a monitor, don't use wireless screen
casting, etc).

I've never seen a smart phone that needed charging every few hours, but
it is true that if you leave location, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth turned on
you would have to charge it at least every other day while a dumb phone
can go many days between charges. If you turn off all those extra radios
you could probably go four days.
The reality is that you charge it in the car, you charge it at home, you
charge it on an airplane, etc., and it's not a problem. Or you buy one
of those external charging packs.
Personally, I would not buy a smart phone that lacked a removable
battery which a) lets you carry a spare battery if you're going to be
away from mains or car power for a long time, and b) lets you easily
replace a battery once it no longer holds a charge.
I have an unlocked LG G3, which was $200 from Fry's. My son has an
unlocked G4/ Both have removable batteries. For smart phones, you're
limited to LG if you want a removable battery.

Gradually, users have been trained to expect to charge every day.
Failing that, there are those cheap battery packs to get you through
until you're at an electric outlet.
Because a lot of people see it more as a pocket computer than a phone.

Even most airlines now provide at least a USB charging port, even in
coach, and a lot have AC outlets.

[d***@66.usenet.us.com]

Post by sms
I have an unlocked LG G3, which was $200 from Fry's. My son has an
unlocked G4/ Both have removable batteries. For smart phones, you're
limited to LG if you want a removable battery.

Samsung Galaxy S4 has a removable battery, but I don't have a spare.
The $10 battery packs available at drug store checkout stands are easier.

[(null)]

Or you buy one of those external charging packs.
Personally, I would not buy a smart phone that lacked a removable
battery...

Frankly, I think the battery-powered battery charger has a bit of an
advantage in that it can be charged in parallel with the phone's battery.
Plus, unlike the removable internal battery it's not limited to a single device.
Plus, the reboot that follows an internal battery swap can waste a fair bit
of power that the external pack avoids. Plus, the external pack sometimes has
higher capacity than the native internal battery.

[sms]

Post by (null)

Or you buy one of those external charging packs.
Personally, I would not buy a smart phone that lacked a removable
battery...

Frankly, I think the battery-powered battery charger has a bit of an
advantage in that it can be charged in parallel with the phone's battery.
Plus, unlike the removable internal battery it's not limited to a single device.
Plus, the reboot that follows an internal battery swap can waste a fair bit
of power that the external pack avoids. Plus, the external pack sometimes has
higher capacity than the native internal battery.

The big advantage of the removable battery is that after 2-3 years, when
your battery no longer holds much of a charge, it's easy to replace.

Kudos to Apple for only charging $79 to replace an iPhone battery, but
on some phones with non-user-removable batteries it's quite a
complicated operation to change the battery. Of course the idea behind
this is that you'll buy a new phone rather than pay $100+ for a battery
change, and that your used phone will have little value on the resale
market.

[(null)]

Post by sms
Of course the idea behind
this is that you'll buy a new phone rather than pay $100+ for a battery
change, and that your used phone will have little value on the resale
market.

I wouldn't discount that idea. One reason old phones have little
value on the resale market is that frequency bands change. For example,
a few years ago T-Mobile only did GSM on the AWS1700 band and not PCS1900,
hence their old phones couldn't do PCS1900. A couple years ago Sprint only
had 1 LTE band and now they have 3. And then there's advancing display
technology, more/different connectivity options, Moore's Law, apps that
don't run on older OS'es, web pages that don't load on older browsers, etc.

[poldy]

Post by sms

Post by (null)

Or you buy one of those external charging packs.
Personally, I would not buy a smart phone that lacked a removable
battery...

Frankly, I think the battery-powered battery charger has a bit of an
advantage in that it can be charged in parallel with the phone's battery.
Plus, unlike the removable internal battery it's not limited to a single device.
Plus, the reboot that follows an internal battery swap can waste a fair bit
of power that the external pack avoids. Plus, the external pack sometimes has
higher capacity than the native internal battery.

The big advantage of the removable battery is that after 2-3 years, when
your battery no longer holds much of a charge, it's easy to replace.
Kudos to Apple for only charging $79 to replace an iPhone battery, but
on some phones with non-user-removable batteries it's quite a
complicated operation to change the battery. Of course the idea behind
this is that you'll buy a new phone rather than pay $100+ for a battery
change, and that your used phone will have little value on the resale
market.

I think most people upgrade every 2 years. Then the phone that they
trade in is refurbished and shipped off to developing countries.

Lot of incremental changes add up to a a reason for most people to
upgrade. Not just better performance but things like better cameras.

[n***@sbcglobal.net]

Post by poldy

Post by sms

Post by (null)

Or you buy one of those external charging packs.
Personally, I would not buy a smart phone that lacked a removable
battery...

Frankly, I think the battery-powered battery charger has a bit of an
advantage in that it can be charged in parallel with the phone's battery.
Plus, unlike the removable internal battery it's not limited to a single device.
Plus, the reboot that follows an internal battery swap can waste a fair bit
of power that the external pack avoids. Plus, the external pack sometimes has
higher capacity than the native internal battery.

The big advantage of the removable battery is that after 2-3 years, when
your battery no longer holds much of a charge, it's easy to replace.
Kudos to Apple for only charging $79 to replace an iPhone battery, but
on some phones with non-user-removable batteries it's quite a
complicated operation to change the battery. Of course the idea behind
this is that you'll buy a new phone rather than pay $100+ for a battery
change, and that your used phone will have little value on the resale
market.

I think most people upgrade every 2 years. Then the phone that they
trade in is refurbished and shipped off to developing countries.
Lot of incremental changes add up to a a reason for most people to
upgrade. Not just better performance but things like better cameras.

My current phone was purchased in 2012. Obviously I'm not "most people." :-D

[sms]

Post by n***@sbcglobal.net

Post by poldy

Post by sms

Post by (null)

Or you buy one of those external charging packs.
Personally, I would not buy a smart phone that lacked a removable
battery...

Frankly, I think the battery-powered battery charger has a bit of an
advantage in that it can be charged in parallel with the phone's battery.
Plus, unlike the removable internal battery it's not limited to a single device.
Plus, the reboot that follows an internal battery swap can waste a fair bit
of power that the external pack avoids. Plus, the external pack sometimes has
higher capacity than the native internal battery.

The big advantage of the removable battery is that after 2-3 years, when
your battery no longer holds much of a charge, it's easy to replace.
Kudos to Apple for only charging $79 to replace an iPhone battery, but
on some phones with non-user-removable batteries it's quite a
complicated operation to change the battery. Of course the idea behind
this is that you'll buy a new phone rather than pay $100+ for a battery
change, and that your used phone will have little value on the resale
market.

I think most people upgrade every 2 years. Then the phone that they
trade in is refurbished and shipped off to developing countries.
Lot of incremental changes add up to a a reason for most people to
upgrade. Not just better performance but things like better cameras.

My current phone was purchased in 2012. Obviously I'm not "most people." :-D

There are great many 3-4 year old iPhones still being used. The "every
two years" upgrade cycle is ending with the end of subsidized phones and
Apple, and other phone makers are very worried about this. They are
coming up with all sorts of lease and financing programs to try to keep
demand up, but it's a lot harder to do this when the cost of a new phone
is now so clear, and the savings of not upgrading every two years is
also clear.

I can't see getting rid of my LG G3 any time soon. The main thing I
would want on a phone is a camera with an optical zoom, and only one
company is making one so far, the Asus Zenfone Zoom ZX551ML.

[n***@sbcglobal.net]

Post by sms

Post by n***@sbcglobal.net

Post by poldy

Post by sms

Post by (null)

Or you buy one of those external charging packs.
Personally, I would not buy a smart phone that lacked a removable
battery...

Frankly, I think the battery-powered battery charger has a bit of an
advantage in that it can be charged in parallel with the phone's battery.
Plus, unlike the removable internal battery it's not limited to a single device.
Plus, the reboot that follows an internal battery swap can waste a fair bit
of power that the external pack avoids. Plus, the external pack sometimes has
higher capacity than the native internal battery.

The big advantage of the removable battery is that after 2-3 years, when
your battery no longer holds much of a charge, it's easy to replace.
Kudos to Apple for only charging $79 to replace an iPhone battery, but
on some phones with non-user-removable batteries it's quite a
complicated operation to change the battery. Of course the idea behind
this is that you'll buy a new phone rather than pay $100+ for a battery
change, and that your used phone will have little value on the resale
market.

I think most people upgrade every 2 years. Then the phone that they
trade in is refurbished and shipped off to developing countries.
Lot of incremental changes add up to a a reason for most people to
upgrade. Not just better performance but things like better cameras.

My current phone was purchased in 2012. Obviously I'm not "most people." :-D

There are great many 3-4 year old iPhones still being used. The "every
two years" upgrade cycle is ending with the end of subsidized phones and
Apple, and other phone makers are very worried about this. They are
coming up with all sorts of lease and financing programs to try to keep
demand up, but it's a lot harder to do this when the cost of a new phone
is now so clear, and the savings of not upgrading every two years is
also clear.
I can't see getting rid of my LG G3 any time soon. The main thing I
would want on a phone is a camera with an optical zoom, and only one
company is making one so far, the Asus Zenfone Zoom ZX551ML.

I bought my phone, a Google Nexus, direct from Google so paid cash. Similar phones are now going for $100 and less. I will probably look at buying another phone from Google to get quick updates when they launch new versions of Android though maybe that's not as important now that I have a game PC that can emulate Android devices like hardware. Besides Google stuffs a lot of bloatware on the phones.

I also have an Acer 500 tablet, Nvidia Shield Portable, Nvidia Shield TV and Google Nexus Player. Right now there is a demand for Android TV apps so the latter two are good to test with though again the game PC emulates those well too.

[sms]

Post by (null)

Or you buy one of those external charging packs.
Personally, I would not buy a smart phone that lacked a removable
battery...

Frankly, I think the battery-powered battery charger has a bit of an
advantage in that it can be charged in parallel with the phone's battery.
Plus, unlike the removable internal battery it's not limited to a single device.
Plus, the reboot that follows an internal battery swap can waste a fair bit
of power that the external pack avoids. Plus, the external pack sometimes has
higher capacity than the native internal battery.

My no-compromise requirements for a smart phone are quite modest:

1. MicroSD card slot
2. 3.5mm Headphone Jack
3. 5.3" minimum screen size
4. 500 PPI minimum resolution
5. Adobe Flash support
6. Support for Bluetooth SPP (so I can use apps like Torque Pro with a
Bluetooth OBD-II dongle)
7. MirrorLink
8. USB port with OTG
9. IR Blaster
10. Removable battery

1-8 are on most mid-range to higher end phones. 9 is a little less
common. For some reason Samsung removed IR Blaster on recent models, but
LG still has it. Samsung also dropped the removable battery after the
Note 4.

Some things that would be nice to have, but are not absolutely required

1. IP67 or IP68 (present on the Samsung S7 and LG V10)
2. Mil-Std 810 (LG V10)
3. ANT+ (Samsung S7)
4. Fast Charging (most current models other than on iPhone)
5. Wireless Charging
6. Fingerprint Reader

[d***@66.usenet.us.com]

6. Support for Bluetooth SPP (so I can use apps like Torque Pro with a Bluetooth OBD-II dongle)

DashCommand for me, but the OBDII is cool stuff.

For some reason Samsung removed IR Blaster on recent models, but

Bummer. I hadn't even noticed that. There's a microphone, I guess, up
there, along with the SIM/SD card slot.
That and the Peel remote was handy in hotels, and even at a friend's house,
where we couldn't figure out the conglomeration of remotes.

1. IP67 or IP68 (present on the Samsung S7 and LG V10)

I'm trying to convince my son not to test that.

4. Fast Charging (most current models other than on iPhone)

zippy.

5. Wireless Charging

That costs extra, and I can't decide where to put it, but after replacing
half a dozen cheap USB cables in the past year, I think I'm ready.

6. Fingerprint Reader

That seems slick, so far. I changed from thumb to finger after
using it a few times away from a desk. (it is a _fingerprint_ reader)
It seems quick and not fussy, so it probably isn't very secure.

[poldy]

Post by sms

Post by poldy
Well beyond the cost, smart phones offer a lot of utility. Simple
things like, having a decent camera always at hand. Not just for Kodak
moments but like you drop off a package at UPS and you don't want to
write down the stupid tracking number so you take a snap of it and you
can track it later.
If you get any utility out of the Internet, you will get use out of a
smart phone which gives you access to the Internet outside the home.
I have an iPad Mini with cellular radio. I often take it out of the
home but not always.
Smart phones are like the digital swiss army knife.

That's how I feel. I had a dumb phone, on Verizon, like David when I
switched to Page Plus. I roamed rarely, and the huge savings meant that
paying for an occasional roaming minute on Golden State Cellular or U.S.
Cellular was lost in the noise. Then Verizon began buying up the smaller
CDMA carriers that I had been roaming on the most, like Golden State
Cellular.
The big attraction to me of Page Plus over Verizon was that I could have
a smart phone without a data plan, something that Verizon does not
permit. I was only using a little cellular data, but when I needed it it
was very nice to have. Most of the time I was on Wi-Fi.
There's a bunch of people I know that were on Verizon with dumb phones
who switched to Page Plus with smart phones because they did not want to
give up the Verizon network, but they did not want to sign up for an
expensive data plan.
I just listened to a piece on KQED today about people who willingly pay
more for the same product, and its for emotional reasons that facts and
logic are not able to counter.
Alas, Page Plus was bought out by Carlos Slim a couple of years ago.
There have been some improvements as a result, but also some negatives,
such as customer service and no more +1 international calling at low rates.
I switched my family over to AT&T's network (Consumer Cellular) because
a) I wanted a family plan with shared minutes, texts, and data, and b) I
wanted phones that we could take to Europe and Asia and just stick in a
prepaid SIM card. But I kept one Page Plus line active for $2.50 per
month minimum just to have a phone that works where AT&T lacks a network.

Well there are no more contracts now. I think they all list the phone
lease price, amortized over 24 months, as the line item in the bill.

I think they all have BYOD plans so you could switch carriers more easily.

They've been offering aggressive trade ins and some people can turn in
phones after a year to get the latest model.

So what that means is that there are probably a lot of 3, 2 or even 1
year old phones in the secondary market. Or maybe on refurb.

Either that or they ship them to developing world countries.

[sms]

Post by poldy

Post by sms

Post by poldy
Well beyond the cost, smart phones offer a lot of utility. Simple
things like, having a decent camera always at hand. Not just for Kodak
moments but like you drop off a package at UPS and you don't want to
write down the stupid tracking number so you take a snap of it and you
can track it later.
If you get any utility out of the Internet, you will get use out of a
smart phone which gives you access to the Internet outside the home.
I have an iPad Mini with cellular radio. I often take it out of the
home but not always.
Smart phones are like the digital swiss army knife.

That's how I feel. I had a dumb phone, on Verizon, like David when I
switched to Page Plus. I roamed rarely, and the huge savings meant that
paying for an occasional roaming minute on Golden State Cellular or U.S.
Cellular was lost in the noise. Then Verizon began buying up the smaller
CDMA carriers that I had been roaming on the most, like Golden State
Cellular.
The big attraction to me of Page Plus over Verizon was that I could have
a smart phone without a data plan, something that Verizon does not
permit. I was only using a little cellular data, but when I needed it it
was very nice to have. Most of the time I was on Wi-Fi.
There's a bunch of people I know that were on Verizon with dumb phones
who switched to Page Plus with smart phones because they did not want to
give up the Verizon network, but they did not want to sign up for an
expensive data plan.
I just listened to a piece on KQED today about people who willingly pay
more for the same product, and its for emotional reasons that facts and
logic are not able to counter.
Alas, Page Plus was bought out by Carlos Slim a couple of years ago.
There have been some improvements as a result, but also some negatives,
such as customer service and no more +1 international calling at low rates.
I switched my family over to AT&T's network (Consumer Cellular) because
a) I wanted a family plan with shared minutes, texts, and data, and b) I
wanted phones that we could take to Europe and Asia and just stick in a
prepaid SIM card. But I kept one Page Plus line active for $2.50 per
month minimum just to have a phone that works where AT&T lacks a network.

Well there are no more contracts now. I think they all list the phone
lease price, amortized over 24 months, as the line item in the bill.
I think they all have BYOD plans so you could switch carriers more easily.

The thing is that on the carrier's own plans the cost of single lines,
with a smart phone and data, tend to be more expensive and give you more
data than you need unless you're doing a lot of mapping and video
watching. Many of the MVNOs don't allow roaming, paid or not. Page Plus
and Consumer Cellular (AT&T) do allow roaming, as does Selectel (Verizon).

Verizon's prepaid service offers unlimited voice and text and 3GB of
data for $45 per month, or just unlimited voice and text for $30 per
month, and you can bring a smart phone whether you buy data or not.
Taxes not included. The $30 per month is less than David is paying
Verizon now. With autopay, the differences between postpaid and prepaid
are very small (actually, according to their map, prepaid actually gets
slightly more coverage which is odd).

PagePlus is one of the few MVNOs that allows off-network CDMA roaming
for voice and text (text included, voice 20¢/minute) though it's rarely
needed. For $30 you get 1GB of data, 1500 minutes, and unlimited text
for $29.95, actually $28.15 with a 6% discount from resellers, and no
tax is collected (but you have to pay the sales tax to the state directly).

One other thing I really like about my smart phone is that I don't need
a separate GPS, and I have a GPS with me even when not in the car (like
walking in San Francisco or foreign cities). I bought the CoPilot App (I
think it was $8 for the U.S. at the time, now it is $10). I bought the
European maps last year, and they were $30 (on sale) for most of Europe.
Unlike Google Maps it does not use any cellular data, though you give up
active traffic. Map updates are free. Also works on tablets at no extra
cost for multiple devices with the same Google Play account.

The bottom line is that it really doesn't cost more to have a smart
phone versus a dumb phone, at least in terms of monthly cost, with
essentially the same coverage, at least on Verizon.

As David pointed out, battery life of dumb phones is greater, but that's
about the only plus.

[d***@66.usenet.us.com]

Post by poldy
Well there are no more contracts now. I think they all list the phone
lease price, amortized over 24 months, as the line item in the bill.

That might have been true for a while. I certainly read about the demise
of the contract, but I just bought a new phone, and contract pricing was
offered at both Costco and Bestbuy.

[d***@66.usenet.us.com]

I wanted phones that we could take to Europe and Asia and just stick in a
prepaid SIM card.

I have taken my Verizon Samsung to Europe. I used both a local SIM and the
Verizon Roaming.
I think all of the Verizon phones are "World Phones" in the past few years.

http://www.verizonwireless.com/devices/world-device/

[sms]

Post by poldy
Smart phones are like the digital swiss army knife.

Good analogy. It replaces so many separate devices.

Camera, especially the newer phones with cameras that rival better P&S
cameraes, there's even one phone with an optical zoom lens.

Flashlight

OBD-II Code Reader

GPS

IR Remote control (if it has IR Blaster)

Powerpoint Slide Controller (via Bluetooth)

ATM (for deposits)

Audio storage device. Link to vehicles sound system via Bluetooth or wire

Video storage device. My phone has screen mirroring to a television via
a Roku or other box with MirrorLink.

Mirror

Guitar/Piano Tuner

dB Meter

Metronome

Bar Code Scanner

Heart Rate Monitor

Step Counter

Mouse

Security System Monitor

Door Unlocker

Oscilloscope

[David Kaye]

Post by sms
Good analogy. It replaces so many separate devices.

And to think that I don't have a need for anything you mentioned. Real life
is funny that way...

[(null)]

Post by sms
Good analogy. It replaces so many separate devices.
ATM (for deposits)

Odd that you'd mention inbound cash (i.e. mobile deposit) but not outbound
payments (i.e. mobile wallet). I guess you don't have Apple/Google/Samsung Pay
set up yet?

[sms]

Post by (null)

Post by sms
Good analogy. It replaces so many separate devices.
ATM (for deposits)

Odd that you'd mention inbound cash (i.e. mobile deposit) but not outbound
payments (i.e. mobile wallet). I guess you don't have Apple/Google/Samsung Pay
set up yet?

What's the point? So few places take Google Pay, and my smart phone is
not a Samsung.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by (null)

Post by sms
Good analogy. It replaces so many separate devices.
ATM (for deposits)

Odd that you'd mention inbound cash (i.e. mobile deposit) but not outbound
payments (i.e. mobile wallet). I guess you don't have Apple/Google/Samsung Pay
set up yet?

What's the point? So few places take Google Pay, and my smart phone is not a
Samsung.

More places do take Apple Pay. Also the mobile wallet is handy for
replacing stacks of stores' affinity/loyalty cards and also for mobile
tickets for concerts and sporting events, in addition to mobile boarding
passes for air travel.

And I've found a lot of useful functionality in store apps of major chain
stores, including Home Depot, Starbucks, Target, Walgreens and Macy's to
name a few.


- Peter

[poldy]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by (null)

Post by sms
Good analogy. It replaces so many separate devices.
ATM (for deposits)

Odd that you'd mention inbound cash (i.e. mobile deposit) but not outbound
payments (i.e. mobile wallet). I guess you don't have
Apple/Google/Samsung
Pay
set up yet?

What's the point? So few places take Google Pay, and my smart phone is not a
Samsung.

More places do take Apple Pay. Also the mobile wallet is handy for
replacing stacks of stores' affinity/loyalty cards and also for mobile
tickets for concerts and sporting events, in addition to mobile boarding
passes for air travel.
And I've found a lot of useful functionality in store apps of major
chain stores, including Home Depot, Starbucks, Target, Walgreens and
Macy's to name a few.
- Peter

I used Apple Pay a bunch in New Zealand. Seems like a lot of places
used the same terminals or payment processor so a lot of them supported
contactless cards and Apple Pay worked on those.

Lot of the clerks were suprised to see it work.

But the problem with Apple Pay is that you can only have a max of 6
cards. I hope at some point that ATMs support contactless and mobile
payments.

[d***@66.usenet.us.com]

Post by poldy
Lot of the clerks were suprised to see it work.

I have had people react with surprise when I use my phone to pay.
They all think it's Apple Pay, and the number of places where it works has
expanded since Apple Pay came out, but that might just be coincidence, as
terminals become standardized with "the chip" slot, which seems not to be
working at very many places.

Sometimes the clerk has to press a "pay at terminal" or something, instead
of taking a card and sliding it on their side.

[n***@sbcglobal.net]

Post by d***@66.usenet.us.com

Post by poldy
Lot of the clerks were suprised to see it work.

I have had people react with surprise when I use my phone to pay.
They all think it's Apple Pay, and the number of places where it works has
expanded since Apple Pay came out, but that might just be coincidence, as
terminals become standardized with "the chip" slot, which seems not to be
working at very many places.
Sometimes the clerk has to press a "pay at terminal" or something, instead
of taking a card and sliding it on their side.
--
Clarence A Dold - Santa Rosa, CA, USA GPS: 38.47,-122.65

The only pay app I use on Android is Starbucks. And their app can be problematic. For some reason I will occasionally get a "server error" when I go to pay. So no problem just launch the app again. Ah but it wants me to login. Now dammit the login as it is on most apps should be just some checksum kept in prefs which are encrypted and about unavailable for anyone to hack. No other apps (except Raley's which crashes a lot) has the problem. I feel like holding the line up as I put my login in.

[sms]

Post by sms
<snip>

Post by poldy
I think you can get Straight Talk plans for around that price. Limited
minutes, I think 1-3 GB of data.
The major outlay would be paying for the whole smart phone though.

You can sign up with Page Plus, which is a Verizon MVNO, and have a plan
with 1,500 domestic voice minutes, unlimited text, with 1 GB of data.
You can use a smart phone (necessary for the data) or a dumb phone if
you just want to throw away the data.

That plan is under $30.

I have told a bunch of former, low-data-usage, Verizon customers about them.

On Page Plus you can also have a 3G smart phone on one of their less
expensive plans, or on pay-as-you-go. You can keep a like active for
$2.50 per month. They don't allow LTE smart phones on the lower cost
plans, not even if you turn off LTE. I keep one Moto G 3G phone active
on Page Plus for times when we travel off the beaten path because
Verizon's coverage in those areas is much better than AT&T's.

[David Kaye]

Post by poldy
I think you can get Straight Talk plans for around that price. Limited
minutes, I think 1-3 GB of data.
The major outlay would be paying for the whole smart phone though.

Eh...I have a 7-inch tablet I bought at Best Buy for $45, which I use mainly
for tracking wi-fi signal strengths when I'm working on wi-fi networks. I
bought a cute little $10 case for it at one of those odd lots stores. It
has a rubberized keyboard and a prop in the back so I can pretend it's a
laptop. There are so many free wi-fi access points now (and especially
since my Comcast account connects to all the xfinitywifi APs that I really
don't need a phone data plan.

I don't have a decent Usenet reader for my tablet, but it's mainly for lack
of trying. I don't need to come here more than every few days, so a Usenet
client is not a priority.

[d***@66.usenet.us.com]

Post by David Kaye
There are so many free wi-fi access points now (and especially
since my Comcast account connects to all the xfinitywifi APs that I really
don't need a phone data plan.

I thught xfinitywifi was the coolest thing ... various places that I visit
have it.

But, I am dismayed at something, maybe DNS latency. Speedtest shows 20 MBpS,
but the network seems horribly inconsistent.
I can't hold a VPN connection over it.
Some web sites never connect.

Hotspot to my Verizon phone is faster and more stable.